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Damanshot
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Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 31175
Loc: Aurora, Ohio

Browns ask City for Repair money
      #892077 - Thu Jan 19 2012 08:20 AM

Quote:

Cleveland Browns want city to spend $5.8 million for stadium repairs
Published: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 6:30 PM Updated: Thursday, January 19, 2012, 1:16 AM
By Thomas Ott, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer



CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Browns want the city to give the team seven years of football stadium repair money -- $5.8 million -- right now.

The team contends the work is necessary to maintain a 12-year-old stadium battered by a sometimes harsh northern climate, and it has asked for an exception to a 30-year lease that calls for the city to set aside $850,000 a year for major repairs.

Under the complicated proposal, the Browns would get this year's $850,000 plus $5 million from the next six years of repair money drawn from the tax revenue collected countywide on alcohol and tobacco sales and administered by the city. In exchange, the city would not have to make its annual contributions from the tax money to a stadium repair fund for the next six years.

But what happens if additional needs arise during that time? Ken Silliman, Mayor Frank Jackson's chief of staff, said the city will consider dipping further into the so-called sin tax money.

Browns general counsel Fred Nance was guarded about what the team would be willing to do.

"If that situation were to happen, the city and the Browns would sit down and work out something that, first and foremost, ensures the integrity of the building and its systems," he said.

The Browns' request requires approval from the City Council. Councilman Michael Polensek, a frequent critic of public subsidies for professional sports teams, said he hopes the team will shoulder all of the burden if it needs more money.

"I don't think they understand how this plays with the citizens," he said.

Cuyahoga County voters agreed in 1995 to dedicate the sin tax to help build the stadium, which ended up costing more than $290 million, and eventually to cover $29 million in repairs.

The sin tax, which expires in 2015, currently raises $13 million a year. Starting this spring, the city must begin putting the sin tax money aside for stadium repairs.

Silliman said officials know they have to figure out how to pay for repairs after the tax expires. He said he has heard no discussion of renewing the tax again.

The money the Browns would get for repairs this year would include an estimated $1.2 million for refurbishing club seats on the north and south sides of the stadium and at the east end zone. Another $750,000 will pay to waterproof the concrete under those seats.

Most of the rest of the $5.8 million would go for replacement and repair of concrete on interior ramps and walkways and a plaza outside the stadium.

Follow Thomas Ott on Twitter @thomasott1.

© 2012 cleveland.com. All rights reserved.
[/quote

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/01/browns_want_to_spend_58_millio.html

--------------------
If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you



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Spergon FTWynn
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Reged: Sep 12 2006
Posts: 14829
Loc: 16 spots ahead of Tom Brady

Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Damanshot]
      #892081 - Thu Jan 19 2012 08:44 AM

I totally agree. 5.8 million should net us a decent reciever.

--------------------

@dpaoloni


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homer_brown
Dawg Talker


Reged: Sep 10 2006
Posts: 1254


Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Damanshot]
      #892087 - Thu Jan 19 2012 09:06 AM

If I was the mayor i would tell them to post back to back 500 years and then we'd talk. I would then tell them to kiss my ass.

--------------------
"It's like watching a movie," said Barkley, the Hall of Fame power forward. "Just when you think it couldn't get any stupider, it gets more stupid."


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no_logo_required
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Reged: Oct 11 2006
Posts: 17918


Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Damanshot]
      #892092 - Thu Jan 19 2012 09:16 AM

Quote:

calls for the city to set aside $850,000 a year for major repairs.




Quote:

The sin tax, which expires in 2015, currently raises $13 million a year. Starting this spring, the city must begin putting the sin tax money aside for stadium repairs.




so, if the city officials were financially prudent, then they would have this money saved already. instead, they likely spent it and are now scrambling.

--------------------
"Thereís a phrase for almost losing, itís called winning."
-Coach Pettine


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PrplPplEater
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Reged: Sep 10 2006
Posts: 19439
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Damanshot]
      #892093 - Thu Jan 19 2012 09:16 AM

We're contractually obligated to pay them the money, anyway - and it gets deducted from the future years' payments, so I don't see why not.
They're just asking for advance on money they will get anyway.

--------------------
-Chris

"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."


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clevesteve
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Damanshot]
      #892095 - Thu Jan 19 2012 09:19 AM

Maybe we should have Romeo, Phil Savage, and Mangini pony up the dough. I'm sure we paid them at least that much for season they weren't even working for the team.

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DCDAWGFAN
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: no_logo_required]
      #892098 - Thu Jan 19 2012 09:20 AM

Quote:

so, if the city officials were financially prudent,



Dude it's way too early in the morning to make me laugh that hard.

Quote:

then they would have this money saved already. instead, they likely spent it and are now scrambling.



If they were prudent, they would have the $850K obligation ready to go but not necessarily the 5 year advance.. I'm sure that sin tax money is obligated to other things as well.

--------------------
"Success is not owned, it's leased and the rent is due every day." JJ Watt


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no_logo_required
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Reged: Oct 11 2006
Posts: 17918


Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
      #892104 - Thu Jan 19 2012 09:28 AM

but the sin tax ends in 2015 and it's a 30 year lease from 1999. So, they better have the payments saved up to 2029 by then (i know, more laughing).

--------------------
"Thereís a phrase for almost losing, itís called winning."
-Coach Pettine


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bigdatut
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Reged: Jan 02 2007
Posts: 1656
Loc: Hartford, Ohio

Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Damanshot]
      #892109 - Thu Jan 19 2012 09:38 AM

This is the kind of crap that infuriates me about sports. Lerner clearly has the money - his family had the money when the original deal was signed - pony the "expletive deleted" up and take care of the stadium yourself. Probably wouldn't need repairs had it been built right in the first place - as a dome.

And anyone want to bet that the sin-tax is allowed to expire in 2015? lol

--------------------
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS


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PrplPplEater
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: no_logo_required]
      #892111 - Thu Jan 19 2012 09:42 AM

Quote:

but the sin tax ends in 2015 and it's a 30 year lease from 1999. So, they better have the payments saved up to 2029 by then (i know, more laughing).




Don't worry, it'll get extended in an after-hours vote of City Council.

--------------------
-Chris

"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."


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no_logo_required
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: PrplPplEater]
      #892114 - Thu Jan 19 2012 09:50 AM

i know that was sarcastic, but i am curious: can council vote to extend it or does it have to be voted on?

--------------------
"Thereís a phrase for almost losing, itís called winning."
-Coach Pettine


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no_logo_required
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Posts: 17918


Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: bigdatut]
      #892116 - Thu Jan 19 2012 09:54 AM

domes require more maintenance than open-air stadiums. just ask Minny what happens if you don't melt the snow off the top

the stadium was built relatively cheaply ($290mil) and then another $29mil in repairs was built into the cost. so, $319mil for the stadium. it stinks that the public is fronting that cost, but compared to places like Cinci it's a sweetheart deal for the city ($555mil of public money)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704461304576216330349497852.html

--------------------
"Thereís a phrase for almost losing, itís called winning."
-Coach Pettine


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bigdatut
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Reged: Jan 02 2007
Posts: 1656
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: no_logo_required]
      #892125 - Thu Jan 19 2012 10:08 AM

Meh. Just seems stale to me after all (sarcasm) of these years. It seems like it was rushed and is so basic... no charachter. I'm sure their's a ton of upkeep that goes on with a dome as well, all I know is I've been to Ford Field once and it was night and day better, IMO, that CBS. And I'm well past the "football's gotta be played outside in the weather - MAN'S GAME" mentality. I want to watch good football in a comfortable environment that can be a raucous sound cavern for my home team - not watch miserable football in a 30% empty or 50% visiting crowd (Steelers games) while freezing my you know whats off. JMO.

And I really don't want to read about a billionaire asking a city for $5.8 million for stadium upkeep.

--------------------
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS


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Damanshot
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Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 31175
Loc: Aurora, Ohio

Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
      #892128 - Thu Jan 19 2012 10:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

so, if the city officials were financially prudent,



Dude it's way too early in the morning to make me laugh that hard.

Quote:

then they would have this money saved already. instead, they likely spent it and are now scrambling.



If they were prudent, they would have the $850K obligation ready to go but not necessarily the 5 year advance.. I'm sure that sin tax money is obligated to other things as well.




Well, I think part of the money they received each year went to buid the stadium initially right?

So it's really a big deal to front load that payment.

As purp pointed out, the team isn't asking for anything they won't get and aren't owed, they just want an advance. But given the state of affairs in cleveland, that may be a bit much to ask for. dunno

--------------------
If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you



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DCDAWGFAN
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Reged: Sep 12 2006
Posts: 30796


Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Damanshot]
      #892134 - Thu Jan 19 2012 10:29 AM

Quote:

As purp pointed out, the team isn't asking for anything they won't get and aren't owed, they just want an advance. But given the state of affairs in cleveland, that may be a bit much to ask for. dunno



If Randy Lerner, with a net worth in excess of $1billion and the Browns with annual revenue of over $275 million really wanted to score a point and endear themselves to the city and the people, Randy would have his lawyer draft up an amendment to the contract that says... "You know what, we love the city of Cleveland and the fans so we are going to take the paultry $850K that the City gives us each year for maintenance and we are going to donate to a variety of local Cleveland charities including the food bank, youth programs, etc and we are going to pay for the maintenance ourselves. We appreciate the support of the Cleveland community for our football team. Go Browns!!"

--------------------
"Success is not owned, it's leased and the rent is due every day." JJ Watt


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kingodawg
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Reged: Sep 12 2006
Posts: 7398
Loc: Kent Ohio

Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Damanshot]
      #892136 - Thu Jan 19 2012 10:30 AM

This is such BS,its happening everywhere but it is still BS

In what other business do taxpayers build your facilities for you , so you can keep all streams of revenue that that building generates? We, as tax payers built that stadium, The Browns(its the same deal for the Cavs and Indians at Gateway) keep all the money from all streams of revenue and now they want 5.8 mill to maintain THEIR facility? I thought PSLs were sold to repay cost of building stadium. SO why then,when the stadium loan has been paid off are the Browns still charging for PSLs on new season tickets?

This crap is going on all over sports and Art Modell is to blame for it. Art moving the Browns scared a lot of cities and pro sports franchises have been using it as leverage against their cities to give them sweetheart stadium deals.

KING

--------------------
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map.


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Damanshot
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Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 31175
Loc: Aurora, Ohio

Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: kingodawg]
      #892138 - Thu Jan 19 2012 10:40 AM

Quote:

This is such BS,its happening everywhere but it is still BS

In what other business do taxpayers build your facilities for you , so you can keep all streams of revenue that that building generates? We, as tax payers built that stadium, The Browns(its the same deal for the Cavs and Indians at Gateway) keep all the money from all streams of revenue and now they want 5.8 mill to maintain THEIR facility? I thought PSLs were sold to repay cost of building stadium. SO why then,when the stadium loan has been paid off are the Browns still charging for PSLs on new season tickets?

This crap is going on all over sports and Art Modell is to blame for it. Art moving the Browns scared a lot of cities and pro sports franchises have been using it as leverage against their cities to give them sweetheart stadium deals.

KING




Not for nothing, but you seem to be overlooking the value having a team has for a city.

There are revenue streams that are a direct result of the Browns being here (and indians and cavs as well)

There is the pride factor (althought recent times leave me scratching my head over the pride)

I'm not at all sure what the numbers are or even how to begin to calculate them, but they are there.

Does it offset? Hell if I know.

--------------------
If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you



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DCDAWGFAN
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Reged: Sep 12 2006
Posts: 30796


Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: kingodawg]
      #892142 - Thu Jan 19 2012 10:52 AM

Quote:

In what other business do taxpayers build your facilities for you , so you can keep all streams of revenue that that building generates? We, as tax payers built that stadium, The Browns(its the same deal for the Cavs and Indians at Gateway) keep all the money from all streams of revenue and now they want 5.8 mill to maintain THEIR facility?



I'm playing both sides of this but don't the Browns pay the city rent to use the stadium? Just like a Kenny Chesney or U2 concert pays the city for use of the stadium? Isn't that what the lease deal was?

If a billionaire rents a luxury apartment in NYC to use when he's there on business and the plumbing breaks, should he have to pay to fix it just because he's rich or because somebody else paid to build the building?

--------------------
"Success is not owned, it's leased and the rent is due every day." JJ Watt


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FloridaFan
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Reged: Sep 10 2006
Posts: 12871


Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
      #892146 - Thu Jan 19 2012 11:16 AM

jc.

I doubt Randy Lerner even has much to do with this. He has staff in charge of the stadium affairs and such and probably just gets footnotes on these types of things during board meetings.

We all would do the same thing. If we had a contract promising our business certain funds for a certain length of time, would you turn it down before the contract is up just because you have enough of your own personal money? I highly doubt any of us would.

--------------------
Growing Old Is Mandatory, Growing Up Is Optional.


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Tubby_Dawg
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Posts: 1880
Loc: West Lafayette, Ohio

Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Damanshot]
      #892149 - Thu Jan 19 2012 11:33 AM

If I was the city of Cleveland I would ask for a legit football team. Seems neither is in a position to make that happen.

--------------------


NOTHING IS FUNNY TO ME! - Derek Anderson


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Damanshot
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Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 31175
Loc: Aurora, Ohio

Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
      #892153 - Thu Jan 19 2012 11:38 AM

Quote:

Quote:

In what other business do taxpayers build your facilities for you , so you can keep all streams of revenue that that building generates? We, as tax payers built that stadium, The Browns(its the same deal for the Cavs and Indians at Gateway) keep all the money from all streams of revenue and now they want 5.8 mill to maintain THEIR facility?



I'm playing both sides of this but don't the Browns pay the city rent to use the stadium? Just like a Kenny Chesney or U2 concert pays the city for use of the stadium? Isn't that what the lease deal was?

If a billionaire rents a luxury apartment in NYC to use when he's there on business and the plumbing breaks, should he have to pay to fix it just because he's rich or because somebody else paid to build the building?




That depends doens't it.. It depends on what the lease says.. It depends on what they agreed to doesn't it.

It looks as if the city agreed to pay 800k+ per year in maintenence costs and all the team is asking for is an advance on that money.

I think it means that the stadium needs some work and they want to get it done now rather than sprinkle it out over the next several years.

That's if I undestand it correctly and there just is no guarantee that I do.

--------------------
If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you



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kingodawg
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Reged: Sep 12 2006
Posts: 7398
Loc: Kent Ohio

Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
      #892157 - Thu Jan 19 2012 11:51 AM

Quote:

I'm playing both sides of this but don't the Browns pay the city rent to use the stadium? Just like a Kenny Chesney or U2 concert pays the city for use of the stadium? Isn't that what the lease deal was?






No and no, the Browns,Indians,and Cavs were giving exclusive right to their respective buildings. Any rent for the use of the building is paid to the team. Any and all revenues from the buildings go to the teams.

As an example,The Monsters and Gladiators pay rent to the Cleveland Cavaliers for use of Quicken Loans Arena. Thats why Dan Gilbet owning these teams just makes financial sense for him .

We the taxpayers paid for those building to be built and basically gave them to the respective teams.


KING

--------------------
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map.


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DCDAWGFAN
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Posts: 30796


Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Damanshot]
      #892158 - Thu Jan 19 2012 11:59 AM

Quote:

That depends doens't it.. It depends on what the lease says.. It depends on what they agreed to doesn't it.





Of course it does. I'm not advocating that anybody violate their portion of the agreement. But in most lease agreements, the owner is responsible for routine upkeep and maintenance.

--------------------
"Success is not owned, it's leased and the rent is due every day." JJ Watt


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Damanshot
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
      #892168 - Thu Jan 19 2012 12:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

That depends doens't it.. It depends on what the lease says.. It depends on what they agreed to doesn't it.





Of course it does. I'm not advocating that anybody violate their portion of the agreement. But in most lease agreements, the owner is responsible for routine upkeep and maintenance.




True,,

--------------------
If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you



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DCDAWGFAN
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Posts: 30796


Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Damanshot]
      #892172 - Thu Jan 19 2012 12:18 PM

I was unaware that the Browns pay absolutely NOTHING for the use of the stadium...

I think the city should send the Browns a letter stating that they will pay for their share of the upkeep but they refuse to pay to re-sod the endzones, since the Browns didn't damage that grass all year.

--------------------
"Success is not owned, it's leased and the rent is due every day." JJ Watt


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kingodawg
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Reged: Sep 12 2006
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
      #892220 - Thu Jan 19 2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

I was unaware that the Browns pay absolutely NOTHING for the use of the stadium...

I think the city should send the Browns a letter stating that they will pay for their share of the upkeep but they refuse to pay to re-sod the endzones, since the Browns didn't damage that grass all year.




If a car dealership came along and gave you a free car lease,would you still be responsible for maintenance on that vehicle? If part of that free lease the company gave you $200 per year for the 3 year lease, could you go to them the first year and say I want all $600 right now?

KING

--------------------
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map.


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PrplPplEater
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Posts: 19439
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: no_logo_required]
      #892243 - Thu Jan 19 2012 02:52 PM

Quote:

i know that was sarcastic, but i am curious: can council vote to extend it or does it have to be voted on?





I don't know, but I could have sworn that the Sin Tax was already supposed to have expired once and was subsequently extended. I may be mistaken, but for some reason that thought is what prompted me to write what I wrote.

--------------------
-Chris

"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."


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archbolddawg
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: PrplPplEater]
      #892254 - Thu Jan 19 2012 03:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

i know that was sarcastic, but i am curious: can council vote to extend it or does it have to be voted on?





I don't know, but I could have sworn that the Sin Tax was already supposed to have expired once and was subsequently extended. I may be mistaken, but for some reason that thought is what prompted me to write what I wrote.




Doesn't matter where it is - where a tax occurs.............if it has an "end on" date, you can bank on that date being extended.

Once any gov't. agency - be it a town, a city, a state, or the fed. gov't. - does anyone honestly think that tax will go away at the end of the "term".


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DCDAWGFAN
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: kingodawg]
      #892266 - Thu Jan 19 2012 03:49 PM

Quote:

If a car dealership came along and gave you a free car lease,would you still be responsible for maintenance on that vehicle?



Car leases are different than property leases but yes, I believe you generally are responsible for normal maintenance on a car. Though I have never actually leased a vehicle. And in the end, you are responsible for whatever the agreement says you are responsible for.

Quote:

If part of that free lease the company gave you $200 per year for the 3 year lease, could you go to them the first year and say I want all $600 right now?



Yes you could.... and they have every right to say no, it's in your lease agreement. Just like the city of Cleveland has every right to say no in this instance... which perhaps they should.

--------------------
"Success is not owned, it's leased and the rent is due every day." JJ Watt


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Ballpeen
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
      #892462 - Fri Jan 20 2012 06:03 AM

J?C


Just some general thoughts.

Extend the tax. People are already paying it, and in the long run, it isn't that much per person.

I don't think many sports teams pay rent to the building owner(city) anymore. It's way to easy for teams to find venues that would welcome them with open arms on a rent free basis.

It doesn't matter how much money Lerner has. He doesn't own the building, why should he repair the thing?? His family already made significant improvements to the facility with their own money by installing the two escalators.


I agree with the comment the building is a fairly cheap building. It's nice, but it was put up on the cheap compared to other facilities. It will require continued maintenance or it will fall to crap quickly.

It seems a longer term fix would be to enclose the open air ramps to help keep some of the moisture out so the freezing and thawing won't crack up the concrete walks.


And, since this is a perfect time to say it again, we should have put a lid on the thing. It would have been a far better use of resources.

--------------------
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.






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YTownBrownsFan
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Loc: YTown, Ohio

Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Ballpeen]
      #892466 - Fri Jan 20 2012 06:19 AM

If they would have put a (even a retractable) dome on on the stadium, we would have hosted a Super Bowl by now. Who knows ..... maybe more than one.

Yeah ..... we should have domed the damn thing.

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Damanshot
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: YTownBrownsFan]
      #892477 - Fri Jan 20 2012 07:45 AM

Quote:

If they would have put a (even a retractable) dome on on the stadium, we would have hosted a Super Bowl by now. Who knows ..... maybe more than one.

Yeah ..... we should have domed the damn thing.




I have to admit that I was against putting a dome on CBS, but I was in favor of a retractable roof.

I wonder if it would have had a positive effect on attracting players..... Just a thought.

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FloridaFan
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Ballpeen]
      #892533 - Fri Jan 20 2012 11:02 AM

Quote:

J?C


Just some general thoughts.

Extend the tax. People are already paying it, and in the long run, it isn't that much per person.





Does anyone beleive if they let the tax end, that establishments would lower their price or just take the extra profit?

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no_logo_required
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: FloridaFan]
      #892546 - Fri Jan 20 2012 11:33 AM

j/c

Nance (Browns legal lead) came out today and said the media report was false. That the Browns are paying for the upgrades this offseason but are putting them on the ledger for the money they get from the city for the next few years (as they have to show what the money went towards).

So, they are not asking for the money now, they are just spending it now and taking it from the city as per the agreement.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/01/19...-team-responds/

--------------------
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-Coach Pettine


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LOYALDAWG
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: no_logo_required]
      #892549 - Fri Jan 20 2012 11:38 AM

Quote:



Nance (Browns legal lead) came out today and said the media report was false.
http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/01/19...-team-responds/


Maybe Toni Groosi reported it..

--------------------
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)


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DCDAWGFAN
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: no_logo_required]
      #892552 - Fri Jan 20 2012 11:42 AM

Quote:

j/c

Nance (Browns legal lead) came out today and said the media report was false. That the Browns are paying for the upgrades this offseason but are putting them on the ledger for the money they get from the city for the next few years (as they have to show what the money went towards).

So, they are not asking for the money now, they are just spending it now and taking it from the city as per the agreement.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/01/19...-team-responds/




Move along now.. nothing more to see here.

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"Success is not owned, it's leased and the rent is due every day." JJ Watt


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Damanshot
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: LOYALDAWG]
      #892557 - Fri Jan 20 2012 12:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:



Nance (Browns legal lead) came out today and said the media report was false.
http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/01/19...-team-responds/


Maybe Toni Groosi reported it..




I checked, not Grossi,,but it was Thomas Ott from the PD

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If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you



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pork loin
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Damanshot]
      #894043 - Wed Jan 25 2012 02:48 PM

Couldn't the browns just call jj wentworth?

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Spergon FTWynn
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: pork loin]
      #894046 - Wed Jan 25 2012 02:54 PM

Quote:

Couldn't the browns just call jj wentworth?






Only if all the coaches and players, and even Randy, do the commercial where they are all on the bus singing.

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@dpaoloni


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YTownBrownsFan
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Re: Browns ask City for Repair money [Re: Spergon FTWynn]
      #894065 - Wed Jan 25 2012 04:03 PM

Captain Kirk (William Shatner) is doing commercials for a local sleazy lawyer here in Youngstown ... so I suppose anything is possible.

--------------------
Welcome to the Browns Coach Pettine.

Hope you survive the experience.

"Danger is real, but fear is a choice." Cavaliers Coach David Blatt, from his son


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Damanshot
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City Council Approves money for Cleve. Browns Stadium
      #897627 - Tue Feb 07 2012 08:20 AM

I'm a little confused here. First it was that they Team asked the city for bunch of money, then the team (nance) says no, we'll front the cash, then the council approves the money.

I really don't know the truth

Quote:

Cleveland City Council OKs $5.8 million for stadium repairs
Published: Monday, February 06, 2012, 10:00 PM Updated: Tuesday, February 07, 2012, 7:36 AM
By Thomas Ott, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer


Scott Shaw. Plain Dealer fileThe city will give the Cleveland Browns $5.8 million for repairs to the city-owned football stadium, shown at its opening in 1999.
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The city has agreed to give the Cleveland Browns a $5.8 million lump sum for stadium repairs, but public officials worry about the source of such payments after a countywide tax for maintaining the building runs out in 2015.

City Council voted 16-2 Monday to let the team take the money from a city-administered tax on alcohol and tobacco sales. Cleveland, which leases the stadium to the football team, is required to provide only $850,000 a year for major improvements.

Browns general counsel Fred Nance, who represented the city when the lease was negotiated, said $850,000 was a compromise at the time the agreement was drawn up. He said the amount, equal to less than 1 percent of the building's $300 million construction cost, is not nearly enough to cover what he termed routine work.

The Browns want to use the nearly $6 million to refurbish seats and replace, repair and waterproof concrete inside and outside the 12-year-old building. Osborn Engineering's Jack Krebs, hired by the team, blamed Northeast Ohio's often severe winters for the damage.

"It's the climate we're in," he told the council during an afternoon hearing. "What I see here is not uncommon."

The Browns, sensitive to criticism of the team's deal with the city, came to the hearing armed with a breakdown of money it has invested in the stadium and the community.

Included were $74 million contributed to the construction, another $50 million paid for features such as escalators, a restaurant and team shop and more than $30 million spent on cleaning and other everyday maintenance. The team also detailed more than $2.9 million donated to community programs and sports facilities.

Ken Silliman, chief of staff to Mayor Frank Jackson, said the city reviewed the repair plans and confirmed the need. The agreement approved Monday is supposed to free the city from its repair obligations for seven years, but Silliman would not rule out tapping sin-tax money again during that time if necessary.

"We own Cleveland Browns Stadium," he told the council. "When you own a building and a few years go by, it starts to develop needs. It's just like when you own a home."

The so-called sin tax took effect in 1990. Voters initially approved the tax to finance Progressive Field and The Q, then extended it for 10 years, starting in 2005, to build and repair Cleveland Browns Stadium.

The ballot issue required that the first $87 million from the extension pay a portion of the stadium construction costs.

After the cap is reached this year, the next $29 million must be applied to repairs previously paid for out of the city's general fund. Silliman estimates that the sin tax will raise about $31 million through 2014.

Cleveland's obligations for stadium repairs will spike from $850,000 to $5.9 million a year in 2021. The amount will continue to rise annually, reaching $7.1 million before the lease runs out in 2025.

City Council members called for working with Cuyahoga County leaders to renew the sin tax for a second time. The discussion may be complicated because there's been talk of renewing the tax for fixing The Q and Progressive Field, which opened in 1994.

"We have to go back to voters for a conversation to extend that sin tax." Councilman Zack Reed said. "There's no other way around it,"

Silliman said Jackson is determined not to use more money from the city's general fund for stadium repairs. The chief of staff would not commit to a specific source of revenue to fund the work but said the sin tax is among the options.

Follow Thomas Ott on Twitter @thomasott1.


© 2012 cleveland.com. All rights reserved





Ooops,, forgot the link

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/02/cleveland_city_council_oks_58.html

--------------------
If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you



Edited by Damanshot (Tue Feb 07 2012 08:46 AM)


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clevesteve
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Re: City Council Approves money for Cleve. Browns Stadium [Re: Damanshot]
      #897635 - Tue Feb 07 2012 09:14 AM

Less than the Browns paid Gocong in the first year of his extension.

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no_logo_required
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Re: City Council Approves money for Cleve. Browns Stadium [Re: Damanshot]
      #897637 - Tue Feb 07 2012 09:33 AM

nance said they needed city council to approve the repairs earmarked and that the Browns were fronting the money. nothing in the article specifically states anything different though it's worded strangely.

approving the "lump sum" does not necessarily mean they are giving all that money to the Browns now. it could be the expense has been approved and they will continue to give $850K/year as scheduled.

but, the focus quickly shifts to how they will continue to pay that after 2015 despite the fact the city was taking in $13mil/year on the sin tax and giving out $850K to the Browns. Ummm, you wouldn't need to extend it if you saved enough to cover the lease term.

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"Thereís a phrase for almost losing, itís called winning."
-Coach Pettine


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Ballpeen
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Re: City Council Approves money for Cleve. Browns Stadium [Re: clevesteve]
      #897638 - Tue Feb 07 2012 09:34 AM

A lot of money for a Gocong, not so much on M&R for a $300 million stadium.

It's funny. It almost seems like stadiums are throw away items after 25 years. The reality is there is no reason the Browns can't be playing in that place for 50 years...as long as a reasonable amount of cash is spent along the way for upkeep.

No doubt after 25 or so years, some major renovation will need to take place, but it is still cheaper than building a new stadium.

New doesn't have to mean better.

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Damanshot
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Re: City Council Approves money for Cleve. Browns Stadium [Re: Ballpeen]
      #897642 - Tue Feb 07 2012 09:43 AM

I'm one of those guys that are willing to pay for a quality product (let's say a car).. and I understand the value of keeping it up. (my 98 blazer has 170k miles on it and still runs great)

Spending 300 million on a stadium then not keeping it up seems kinda stupid

I'm all in favor of maintaining and repair the facility as needed.

I'm even in favor of retrofitting some kinda dome on the thing.

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clevesteve
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Re: City Council Approves money for Cleve. Browns Stadium [Re: Ballpeen]
      #897657 - Tue Feb 07 2012 10:56 AM

I just was disappointed in the fact that its so easy to shell out that kind of cash for an average player's salary for one year, but they need to go to the cash-strapped city to get that same money for stadium repairs when the city doesn't know where the money will come from.

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no_logo_required
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Re: City Council Approves money for Cleve. Browns Stadium [Re: clevesteve]
      #897659 - Tue Feb 07 2012 11:01 AM

Quote:

I just was disappointed in the fact that its so easy to shell out that kind of cash for an average player's salary for one year, but they need to go to the cash-strapped city to get that same money for stadium repairs when the city doesn't know where the money will come from.




3 things:

1. the city has the money for the currrent $5.8mil. they are getting it from the sin tax and are not concerned about having that money (from the article)

2. the city is worried about getting the $850K/year after this 6yr stint because the sin tax is scheduled to end in 2015.

3. the city has been making ~$13mil off the sin tax that was passed for the purpose of paying for stadium related items and they have apparently not looked at saving the money for something that is contractually obligated.

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Ballpeen
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Re: City Council Approves money for Cleve. Browns Stadium [Re: clevesteve]
      #897668 - Tue Feb 07 2012 11:18 AM

It's not the Browns responsibility to repair the stadium.

It's kind of like a renter paying for a broken water heater because he feels the landlord is cash strapped.

I think as illustrated, the Browns and Lerner have spent considerable money on stadium upgrades. Time for the landlord to step up.

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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.






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