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Brownoholic
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Re: Free Agents Part II [Re: clevesteve]
      #905756 - Sat Mar 03 2012 05:39 PM

Another story links Chad Henne to the Jets

Saints place exclusive franchise tag on Drew Brees

Not that anyone thought he'd be available . . .


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FL_Dawg
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Re: Free Agents Part II [Re: Brownoholic]
      #905786 - Sat Mar 03 2012 08:13 PM

Quote:

Another story links Chad Henne to the Jets

Saints place exclusive franchise tag on Drew Brees

Not that anyone thought he'd be available . . .




I think that makes Nicks and Colston fair game

--------------------


Edited by FL_Dawg (Sat Mar 03 2012 08:51 PM)


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DjangoBrown
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Re: Free Agents Part II [Re: FL_Dawg]
      #905793 - Sat Mar 03 2012 08:45 PM

Nicks...

Signing Colston and Tolbert would make me very happy...good fits, both as professional as it gets...would be quality additions to this team and upgrade our Offense considerably


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Jester
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Re: Free Agents Part II [Re: DjangoBrown]
      #905806 - Sat Mar 03 2012 09:54 PM

Seems like Colston is always hurt

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People who live in glass houses should dress in the basement


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DjangoBrown
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Re: Free Agents Part II [Re: Jester]
      #905828 - Sun Mar 04 2012 06:41 AM

He isn't the most durable, but he still managed to reach 1k yds in 5 of his 6 seasons, he's not a quitter and plays hurt....he's 6'4, in his prime years and knows the WCO inside out...he's the #1 WR we need imho. He would allow to put every other WR we have in their best suited position (Little to no2, Cribbs to no4, Massa off the roster)

Colston and Tolbert are those late round/UDFA guys that have come a long way..like Rubin I don't think their production falls off once they've signed a big contract...and that's my biggest fear when it comes to FAs


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brownsfansince79
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Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: DjangoBrown]
      #906057 - Sun Mar 04 2012 09:42 PM

link

Asked about Marshawn Lynch at the NFL Scouting Combine, coach Pete Carroll spoke directly to the importance of the team retaining its leading rusher and the player around which the Seahawks have built their offense.

“We have big plans for him being with us,” Carroll said. “He knows that. And he understands that. And we’re just working it out right now.”

That was 10 days ago, and the work came to fruition Sunday when Lynch signed a multiyear contract to remain with the team that acquired him a 2010 trade with the Buffalo Bills.

"We are excited to keep Marshawn as an important part of what we are building," general manager John Schneider said after the deal was finalized. "This is what we were hoping for when we acquired him from Buffalo."

Seattle was where Lynch wanted to be.

“I mean I would like to come back,” he said as the players were cleaning out their cubicles in the locker that day after the season-ending loss to the Arizona Cardinals. “Sure, I’d like to stay here. But that’s not up to me.”

Seattle is where Lynch was going to stay, even if it meant the Seahawks designating him as their franchise player. The deadline for naming franchise players is Monday. But both sides preferred a long-term contract, rather than the one-season tag, and the ongoing negotiations intensified as the deadline approached.

“Everything’s going to fall into place,” Lynch had said when asked about the uncertainty of his future. “There’s not too much I can do about it but just wait.”

As for hitting the open market, he added, “Hopefully I don’t have to. Hopefully I can get taken care of where I’m at.”

Hope became reality on Sunday, when the waiting was finally over for Lynch and the Seahawks.

Lynch, who won’t turn 26 until next month, became the key ingredient in the zone-blocking scheme installed last season by assistant head coach/offensive line coach Tom Cable. Despite getting off to a slow start (an average of 91.7 rushing yards through nine games) and then losing three starting linemen in during a four-week period in November and December, Lynch and the running game flourished in the second half of the season – as he had six 100-yard rushing performances in the final nine games, and the team won five of its final eight games after starting 2-6.

“It’s very encouraging,” Lynch said of the drastic improvement shown by the running game. “Just to know that if we call a run play, we know we can run it and get success out of. You’ve got to be real pleased with that, being a running back, and knowing that they’re going to get the job done. And they’re young and are going to get better.”

Lynch finished his first full season in Seattle with career-best totals in rushing yards (1,204) and touchdowns (13). He became the team’s first 1,000-yard rusher since Shaun Alexander in 2005 and broke Alexander’s record set that season (nine) by scoring a touchdown in 11 consecutive games. Lynch also caught 28 passes, tying the second-highest total of his five-season NFL career.

After being acquired Oct. 5, 2010, in a trade that cost the Seahawks two middle-round draft choices, Lynch led the team with 573 rushing yards and six rushing touchdowns, and also posted a career-best 4.4-yard average.

But with Lynch, it’s not just the yards he gains and the touchdowns he scores, but how he does it – with a “Beast Mode” style that has to be seen to be believed. And the closer, the better.

At the Combine, Bucky Brooks said no back in the league runs as hard as Lynch. “Without question. No doubt. No one else runs that hard, with that determination,” said Brooks, a former NFL wide receiver and scout for the Seahawks who is now an analyst for NFL.com.

During the season, and on several occasions, Pro Bowl fullback Michael Robinson marveled at what Lynch was able to accomplish – especially the way he accomplished it. At one point, Robinson said he never had seen a back generate as much power on one leg as Lynch – which explains his ability to emerge from piles of would-be tacklers and gain yards that just don’t seem to be there.

“That’s the way he is. That’s the type of guy he is,” Robinson said. “He walks aggressively. Marshawn does everything he does aggressively.

“That’s what you like about him.”

Lynch and Robinson also were teammates in the Pro Bowl, as Lynch led the NFC with 43 yards on eight carries. Each had been an alternate in balloting for the NFL all-star game; each was added to the NFC squad as an injury replacement.

It would have been extremely difficult to replace what Lynch brings to the Seahawks’ offense, huddle and locker room if he had been allowed to sign elsewhere in free agency. That’s why the team was ready to give him the franchise tag. That’s why the multiyear contract was the preferred – and better – option.

Because as last season proved, as Lynch goes, so go the Seahawks. That fact was not lost on the Seahawks’ opponents, especially after Lynch became the first player to score a rushing touchdown against the NFC West champion San Francisco 49ers last season and also snapped their 36-game streak of not allowing a 100-yard rusher.

“That’s the way Marshawn Lynch plays all the time,” Harbaugh said after Lynch’s Week 16 efforts. “I couldn’t say if there’s a difference from Game One to this game, or throughout his whole career.

“He’s just a great back.”

And now Lynch will remain the Seahawks’ lead back, as he tries to lead them back to the playoffs and the team’s first winning record since 2007.

--------------------
Roses are red
And ready for plucking.
Now you're 16
And ready for high school.


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JMcCurry08
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: brownsfansince79]
      #906059 - Sun Mar 04 2012 09:56 PM

hopefully this doesnt jack up the asking price for Hillis

--------------------
Browns draft wish list: RG3, LaMichael James, Devier Posey, Bruce Irvin

FA Wish List: Mike Tolbert, Pierre Garcon, Mario Manningham, Demetrius Bell


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Arps
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: brownsfansince79]
      #906061 - Sun Mar 04 2012 10:06 PM

Wow

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“If worms had guns, birds wouldn’t eat ‘em.”


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ThatGuy
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: Arps]
      #906062 - Sun Mar 04 2012 10:10 PM

If Tampa doesn't grab Richardson, I wonder who will now? Cincy? What if they re-sign Benson? Hmmm...

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Afghanistan sucks, if you weren't aware...


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Brownoholic
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: ThatGuy]
      #906064 - Sun Mar 04 2012 10:14 PM

I get sick thinking about Richardson to the Bengals. And I HIGHLY doubt they're bringing Benson back...

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ThatGuy
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: Brownoholic]
      #906065 - Sun Mar 04 2012 10:16 PM

Quote:

I get sick thinking about Richardson to the Bengals. And I HIGHLY doubt they're bringing Benson back...




I've never been a fan of taking someone just so another team can't EVEN if it is somewhat of a need...

But I like CLWB419's mock of us trading the #22 UP right infront of Cincy and grabbing Richardson (Along with Claiborne at 4 and a RT later)

I'd be ECSTATIC with that draft...

--------------------
Afghanistan sucks, if you weren't aware...


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Brownoholic
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: ThatGuy]
      #906100 - Mon Mar 05 2012 08:15 AM

Nope, wouldn't argue w/ that draft either . . .

Titans expected to franchise tag safety Michael Griffin


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Dave
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: brownsfansince79]
      #906106 - Mon Mar 05 2012 08:38 AM

According to USA Today, Lynch's deal is 4 years, $31M, $18M guaranteed. I have no idea what effect this has on negotiations with Hillis.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/...ract/53359826/1

Edited by Dave (Mon Mar 05 2012 08:57 AM)


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Tulsa
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: Dave]
      #906107 - Mon Mar 05 2012 08:40 AM

Quote:

According to USA Today, Lynch's deal is 4 years, $31M, $18M guaranteed. I have no idea what affect this has on negotiations with Hillis.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/...ract/53359826/1




Wouldn't any affect be driven by how many agents Lynch has had in the past year and if possibly Lynch was acting as his own agent behind the scenes, a "secret agent" if you will.


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brownsfansince79
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Texans re-sign Foster [Re: Tulsa]
      #906108 - Mon Mar 05 2012 08:45 AM

The Houston Texans have reached agreement on a five-year contract with running back Arian Foster, a league source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

In his second season as the Texans' starter, Foster ran for 1,224 yards and 10 touchdowns and made his second Pro Bowl this season despite sitting out three games.

Foster's career has taken off after the 25-year old went undrafted out of Tennessee in 2009 despite running for 2,964 yards in his four-year career.

Foster was picked up by the Texans as a free agent, released that September and then signed to Houston's practice squad the next day. He made the active roster that November after injuries to Houston's other running backs and ran for 257 yards in six games.

After becoming Houston's starter in 2010, Foster finished the season with an NFL-best 1,615 yards rushing and league-leading 2,220 yards from scrimmage.

This season, Foster and second-year back Ben Tate helped the Texans weather injuries to starting quarterback Matt Schaub and backup Matt Leinart. The two-headed backfield led Houston and rookie T.J. Yates to the Texans' first AFC South title, first playoff appearance and first postseason victory.

link

--------------------
Roses are red
And ready for plucking.
Now you're 16
And ready for high school.


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Dave
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: Tulsa]
      #906112 - Mon Mar 05 2012 09:03 AM

I was thinking more in terms of their relative value, based on production. Lynch has better numbers, but Peyton Hillis definitely has better teeth.

Marshawn Lynch's Grill


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Dave
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Re: Texans re-sign Foster [Re: brownsfansince79]
      #906123 - Mon Mar 05 2012 09:50 AM

I guess that means that Houston will be able to franchise Mario Williams, if they can't sign him. Too bad, he was on my wish list.

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JMcCurry08
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Re: Texans re-sign Foster [Re: Dave]
      #906124 - Mon Mar 05 2012 09:53 AM

I dont think they're franchising Williams, they'd pay him 22 mil for the season

--------------------
Browns draft wish list: RG3, LaMichael James, Devier Posey, Bruce Irvin

FA Wish List: Mike Tolbert, Pierre Garcon, Mario Manningham, Demetrius Bell


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clevesteve
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Source: 5-year deal for Stevie Johson [Re: JMcCurry08]
      #906126 - Mon Mar 05 2012 09:58 AM

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7647122/buffalo-bills-sign-stevie-johnson-extension

The Buffalo Bills signed wide receiver Stevie Johnson to a contract extension Monday, the team announced.

The Bills didn't disclose terms of the agreement, but a league source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter that Johnson received a five-year, $36.25 million deal that includes $19.5 million guaranteed and over $24 million in the contract's first three years.


Stevie Johnson
#13 WR
Buffalo Bills
2011 STATS
Rec
76
Yds
1004
TD
7
Avg
13.2
Long
55
YAC
325
Johnson, 25, led the Bills with 76 catches, joining Eric Moulds as the only Bills receivers to have 75 in consecutive seasons.

He also became the first Bills receiver in the franchise's 52-year history to post back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons. He finished with 1,004 yards.

Johnson, however, was penalized twice in five weeks for excessive touchdown celebrations -- the second leading to a benching by coach Chan Gailey for the final three quarters of a season-ending 49-21 loss at New England.


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Brownoholic
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Re: Texans re-sign Foster [Re: JMcCurry08]
      #906131 - Mon Mar 05 2012 10:15 AM

Quote:

I dont think they're franchising Williams, they'd pay him 22 mil for the season




No serious discussions between Texans, Mario Williams



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no_logo_required
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Re: Texans re-sign Foster [Re: Brownoholic]
      #906135 - Mon Mar 05 2012 10:30 AM

Houston fans are pretty relegated to the fact they are losing Mario and they are not getting compensated (at least directly - compensation picks in '13 always possible)

Now, how on Earth do we get Mario to pick Cleveland over what will be any team with significant cap room (which happens to be nearly the whole league this year)?

--------------------
Logos? We don't need no stinking logos.


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Arps
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Re: Texans re-sign Foster [Re: no_logo_required]
      #906136 - Mon Mar 05 2012 10:32 AM

Sell him on the weather...oh wait
Its gotta be the city...oh wait
the beautiful view of lake Erie...oh wait

I give up

--------------------
“If worms had guns, birds wouldn’t eat ‘em.”


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CBFAN19
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Re: Texans re-sign Foster [Re: Arps]
      #906137 - Mon Mar 05 2012 10:34 AM

Sell him on a membership to this board, so he can learn so much more about football from the experts here than he could ever learn actually playing in the NFL!

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The old ball player cared about the name on the front of the jersey. The new ball player cares about the name on the back. -Steve Garvey


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PeteyDangerous
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Re: Source: 5-year deal for Stevie Johson [Re: clevesteve]
      #906139 - Mon Mar 05 2012 10:39 AM

Quote:


The Buffalo Bills signed wide receiver Stevie Johnson to a contract extension Monday, the team announced.

The Bills didn't disclose terms of the agreement, but a league source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter that Johnson received a five-year, $36.25 million deal that includes $19.5 million guaranteed and over $24 million in the contract's first three years.




Man, he's the guy I wanted. This year's FA market for WR is just looking weaker and weaker. Dwayne Bowe is gonna get the tag.

That leaves, Vincent Jackson, Garcon, Robert Meachem, Marques Colston, Brandon Lloyd (who I'm guessing will go to New England). Jackson is kinda old, Colston gets too many injuries and isn't a burner at all. Robert Meachem and Pierre Garcon on decent options.

Man I was hoping for Stevie Johnson or Desean jackson though........ If we plan on getting RG3, we're going to need to sign a real FA WR.

--------------------
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball


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OverToad
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: Dave]
      #906150 - Mon Mar 05 2012 11:10 AM

Quote:

According to USA Today, Lynch's deal is 4 years, $31M, $18M guaranteed. I have no idea what effect this has on negotiations with Hillis.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/...ract/53359826/1


Zero effect.

In terms of production and reliability, Hillis isn't in the same discussion as Lynch. Hillis is battling all the demon's he created. Lynch was in "pay me for what I've proven" mode. Hillis is in "I have to prove I can play" mode. Big difference.


--------------------
Confucius say man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement.


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Brownoholic
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Re: Source: 5-year deal for Stevie Johson [Re: PeteyDangerous]
      #906151 - Mon Mar 05 2012 11:11 AM

Don't forget, Petey, If we DON'T plan on getting RG3, we're STILL going to need to sign a real FA WR.

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PrplPplEater
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: OverToad]
      #906152 - Mon Mar 05 2012 11:13 AM

Quote:

Quote:

According to USA Today, Lynch's deal is 4 years, $31M, $18M guaranteed. I have no idea what effect this has on negotiations with Hillis.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/...ract/53359826/1


Zero effect.

In terms of production and reliability, Hillis isn't in the same discussion as Lynch. Hillis is battling all the demon's he created. Lynch was in "pay me for what I've proven" mode. Hillis is in "I have to prove I can play" mode. Big difference.





Actually, it helps set the market for Hillis in two ways:

1. Hillis hasn't produced on Lynch's level, so he shouldn't expect that kind of money.... the High Bar is definitely set.

2. The converse effect is that one more premier back is now off the market (two now that Arian Foster is re-signed as well), so Hillis moves closer to the top of the list of "Best Back Available".



The team and him should get something worked out.... this helps for sure.

--------------------
-Chris

"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."


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Damanshot
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: Dave]
      #906154 - Mon Mar 05 2012 11:31 AM

Quote:

I was thinking more in terms of their relative value, based on production. Lynch has better numbers, but Peyton Hillis definitely has better teeth.

Marshawn Lynch's Grill





Can you imagine eating crackers with that grill work?

--------------------
If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you



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OverToad
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: PrplPplEater]
      #906155 - Mon Mar 05 2012 11:31 AM

I don't agree, Purp.

Whether Lynch signed with the Seahawks or someone else, he absolutely was going to sign or get tagged, so Hillis was always going to be in the same pecking order.

I also don't believe that the Browns are going to adjust how much they are willing to pay Hillis based on what Lynch or any other high-end back gets. I believe they have had a number in place for quite a while and are just in the negotiating process with Hillis, waiting to see if the two sides can get to that number.

I just don't see how Lynch's deal would help set the market for Hillis, just as how Arian Foster's deal doesn't help set the market for Hillis. The Browns have already made an offer to him, so they have their number in mind already.

I get your drift, but this isn't the same situation as Stevie Johnson, who is a 2nd tiered receiver compared to the best in the NFL. Think "very good" versus "great." Johnson had proven he can produce on a regular basis, just like Lynch. Hillis hasn't.


--------------------
Confucius say man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement.


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Brownoholic
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: Damanshot]
      #906163 - Mon Mar 05 2012 11:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I was thinking more in terms of their relative value, based on production. Lynch has better numbers, but Peyton Hillis definitely has better teeth.

Marshawn Lynch's Grill





Can you imagine eating crackers with that grill work?




Or Skittles . . . ?


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Brownoholic
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: Brownoholic]
      #906165 - Mon Mar 05 2012 12:00 PM

Lions use franchise tag on Cliff Avril.

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Dave
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: Brownoholic]
      #906169 - Mon Mar 05 2012 12:04 PM

In the NFL, it seems like nobody ever loses any of their free agents unless they want to. I sure wish MLB had the same set-up re: revenue sharing, salary cap, franchise rights, etc.

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DCDAWGFAN
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: OverToad]
      #906171 - Mon Mar 05 2012 12:13 PM

Quote:

Lynch was in "pay me for what I've proven" mode. Hillis is in "I have to prove I can play" mode.



I disagree to the extent that Hillis has proven he can play.. Hillis had a year in 2010 that was as good as any year that Lynch has ever had.. he just has to prove that he can do it again.

--------------------
I BELIEVE THAT WE WILL WIN!!!!


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no_logo_required
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
      #906174 - Mon Mar 05 2012 12:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Lynch was in "pay me for what I've proven" mode. Hillis is in "I have to prove I can play" mode.



I disagree to the extent that Hillis has proven he can play.. Hillis had a year in 2010 that was as good as any year that Lynch has ever had.. he just has to prove that he can do it again.




I think Hillis merely needs to prove he can stay healthy. I don't think the Browns FO doubts he could do it again if he can stay on the field and healthy while he is there.

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PeteyDangerous
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Reged: Jan 17 2007
Posts: 3415


Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: Brownoholic]
      #906186 - Mon Mar 05 2012 12:46 PM

Quote:

Lions use franchise tag on Cliff Avril.




And there goes another guy that I wanted.........

This happens every year I get my hopes up on some FA's and they always seem to get franchise tagged.


To whoever replied to me complaining about no Stevie Johnson, if we get RG3. I was working under the assumption that I wanted a top-notch receiver to go with Greg Little and company, because we wouldn't be able to find any receivers in the draft. I figure that we'll pick a WR with our first three picks if we don't sign a FA and don't get RG3.

One good WR will definitely make things easier for the other WRs. This just made the FA market more difficult. Although, I think that if we got a real over-the-top deep threat, everything would look better. I was really hoping that would be last year with AJ Green (and Julio Jones could have done that, but we're better off with that trade).

In some ways I want Braylon Edwards back.......... Just wish we had the right QB for someone like him (who will block Braylon's voice out of his mind as Braylon says "Just throw me the ball"). Braylon did offer us an over the top threat for deep passes. I'll tell ya, the Jets missed him this year............ He wasn't even there and they faced that chaos with their receiving corps vs Sanchise


Someone like Eddie Royal would be nice, but still doesn't solve our need for a top-notch receiver. I think Greg Little is good, but I dunno if he'll ever be a superstar

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UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball

Edited by PeteyDangerous (Mon Mar 05 2012 12:48 PM)


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OverToad
Legend


Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 11124


Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: no_logo_required]
      #906188 - Mon Mar 05 2012 12:51 PM

DC, Lynch has had three 1000-yard seasons. Hillis had one, and he was worn down at the end of that season.

NoLogo, Hillis has to prove more than he can stay healthy. He also has to overcome the reputation that he's a bit of a headcase. Whether we like it or not, Hillis is a weird cat who has gone through a record-setting four agents in a one+ year span. He had to have an intervention by his teammates to help him get back on track.

All Hillis has proven is that he has the ability. He hasn't proven he can do it consistently and because of that, he's not in the same class as these other RB's. Since he isn't in the same class as those guys, their contracts aren't going to impact the contract Hillis is offered.

I can't prove that 100%, nor can I prove what I'm about to say, but I'm of the opinion the Browns already know how much they are willing to give Hillis and are working towards that mark. I don't believe these contracts are setting the framework to help determine what the Browns are willing to give him.

Besides, the big-wigs in the NFL already knew what kind of money guys like Foster and Lynch were going to get. They weren't waiting to see what they'd get to help them get to a number they like for Hillis. It's my opinion that bar had been set long ago.


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Confucius say man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement.


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Brownoholic
Hall of Famer


Reged: Mar 24 2007
Posts: 5793
Loc: Columbus, OH, U.S.A.

Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: PeteyDangerous]
      #906190 - Mon Mar 05 2012 12:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Lions use franchise tag on Cliff Avril.




And there goes another guy that I wanted.........

This happens every year I get my hopes up on some FA's and they always seem to get franchise tagged.




Ooof. You're a Browns fan. The sooner you stop getting your hopes up, the better . . . OK, ok, easier said than done . . . . .


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Brownoholic
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Reged: Mar 24 2007
Posts: 5793
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Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: Brownoholic]
      #906193 - Mon Mar 05 2012 01:10 PM

Rams won't use franchise tag

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brownsdownunder
Rookie


Reged: Mar 04 2012
Posts: 1


Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: Brownoholic]
      #906196 - Mon Mar 05 2012 01:15 PM

Quote:

Rams won't use franchise tag




Wonder if the Rams are going to go balls out in free agency to go with their impending multiple picks.


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no_logo_required
Legend


Reged: Oct 11 2006
Posts: 17541


Re: Seahawks re-sign Marshawn Lynch [Re: OverToad]
      #906199 - Mon Mar 05 2012 01:20 PM

that's fair. though I don't think Hillis can do anything to prove it between now and Mar 13th in either case

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Logos? We don't need no stinking logos.


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