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Dawg Talkers Message Boards >> K-9 Consensus

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OverToad
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Have you given up on Colt McCoy?
      #874650 - Mon Dec 05 2011 01:27 PM

I've never in all my years done a poll, so bare with me here...

This is about whether or not you've given up on him. Lemme see how this works, as I may edit it after a try or two...
Do you believe McCoy will be a viable starter in the NFL?
You may choose only one
Absolutely, McCoy will be a legitimate stater
McCoy is more likely than not to be a legitimate starter
McCoy is less likely to be a viable starter than most
I've given up on McCoy and have no faith he's a legit starter in the NFL


Votes accepted from (Mon Dec 05 2011 01:26 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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ThatGuy
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #874656 - Mon Dec 05 2011 01:33 PM

I was going to start a poll somewhat similar to this, basically asking if people wanted to have McCoy the starter next season, Have competition, or get rid of him...

Beat me too it..

PS: I'm done with him.

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Flap
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: ThatGuy]
      #874660 - Mon Dec 05 2011 01:44 PM

Personally I think this would be a better answer list. I don't know whether or not he's likely to be a legit starter or not, I just know what I would like to see next TC. And for the record, I'd be looking to bring in somebody as competition and see who steps up. I would NOT mortgage the draft in order to do so, however.

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DawgMichelle
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #874679 - Mon Dec 05 2011 02:40 PM

I really don't see the point...you can't put having a crappy team entirely on his shoulders.

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ThatGuy
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: DawgMichelle]
      #874683 - Mon Dec 05 2011 02:46 PM

What's the point of that argument?

Noone, not even Django, is saying EVERYTHING is McCoy's fault...

But it's become clear to some, that even when situations are good, He still doesn't have what it takes to be a consistant starting NFL QB...

I don't blame him for drops...

But I do blame him for leading guys like MoMass into constant hits..

I don't blame him when Joe Fricken Thomas gets beat the one time a season he gets beat, on a 7 step drop and he gets sacked.

I do blame him when the pocket is solid and he has ALL DAY to throw, and he winces and runs right into a Dlineman...

There is alot wrong with this team. But it is of my opinion, that if we fixed EVERYTHING ELSE, we'd still need a QB to be a consistantly good team moving forward...

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DawgMichelle
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: ThatGuy]
      #874690 - Mon Dec 05 2011 03:00 PM

I'm not saying he's not at fault or a great player...but until you have a more consistent team in general, how can you have a consistent QB...or any position for that matter?

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no_logo_required
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: DawgMichelle]
      #874716 - Mon Dec 05 2011 04:16 PM

Quote:

I'm not saying he's not at fault or a great player...but until you have a more consistent team in general, how can you have a consistent QB...or any position for that matter?




or team has been incredibly consistent. extremely poor team especially on offense (but still, it's consistent)

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brownsfansince79
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #874760 - Mon Dec 05 2011 06:34 PM

McCoy is less likely to be a viable starter than most

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ThatGuy
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: brownsfansince79]
      #874764 - Mon Dec 05 2011 06:37 PM

I guess it depends on your definition of a "Legit Starter"

I don't consider Trent Dilfer to have ever been a Legit Starter, and he won a Super Bowl...

7 years from now a starting QB could get hurt, and Colt could come in and manage a team to a SB win...

Does that mean we were wrong to let him go now? No.

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Tulsa
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: ThatGuy]
      #874785 - Mon Dec 05 2011 07:33 PM

I'm not the biggest of Colt fans this week, or last week for that matter.

I was a bigger Colt fan last season.

I think he needs Delhomme back to mentor him.


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ThatGuy
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: Tulsa]
      #874787 - Mon Dec 05 2011 07:37 PM

I'll be honest, after the Jets game, I thought the search was over, I hitched my wagon up to his F-150 and was ready to cruise into the horizon...

I understand we changed schemes, I understand there was no training camp...

I'm just saying, If we go into next season, with him as the UNQUESTIONED STARTER, There aren;t going to be anymore fluff pieces written for him...

He better come out in that first REGULAR SEASON GAME (also known as, not preseason) And he better be a top 15 QB FROM THE START...

Or we just wasted another season...

JMHO

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jfanent
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #874796 - Mon Dec 05 2011 08:09 PM

I've given up on McCoy and have no faith he's a legit starter in the NFL . There's no light that's going to suddenly pop on, he's not going to suddenly be able to read defenses, he's not suddenly going to get a strong, accurate downfield arm, and he's not going to suddenly grow 2 inches. None of this is gradually going to happen either, because we would have seen some sort of indication by now.

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Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does.


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YTownBrownsFan
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #874799 - Mon Dec 05 2011 08:46 PM

McCoy has no "plus" skills, and is below average in arm strength, size, accuracy, footwork, pocket awareness, and mechanics.

He has toughness, seems intelligent, seems to be a good leader, has the respect of his teammates, and is hard working.

There are QBs who are effective with only the attributes McCoy possesses ..... but few that win Super Bowls. That should be our target ... winning Super Bowls. Does anyone think, even if we had Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald, that McCoy would be any better than average? I don't. His accuracy is horrible. He leads receivers into bone crushing hits. He does not make an impact on the field. Teams don't even take chances on offense against us because they do not think we can score TDs consistently. I do not believe that McCoy is a Super Bowl QB ... and if he is not, then we should be looking for a QB capable of taking us to a Super Bowl.

No other position on the football field impacts the outcome of a game like the QB does. Great QBs make their teams much better than they would otherwise be. So-so QBs must rely upon great teammates to help cover their deficiencies. They must have great units around them on every side. The team must play perfectly in every regard to win games, because mistakes are fatal. Injuries to teammates will destroy a so-so QB. If a great QB loses his RB, he adapts and makes more plays in the passing game. A so-so QB folds under pressure that will inevitably come in such a situation. He will try to be an impact player, but lacks the ability to do so.

Colt McCoy is a so-so QB, and unfortunately, I do not see that changing. We need to move on and find our own great QB .... one capable of taking us to a Super Bowl.

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Welcome to the Browns Coach Pettine.

Hope you survive the experience.

"Danger is real, but fear is a choice." Cavaliers Coach David Blatt, from his son


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Ballpeen
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #874806 - Mon Dec 05 2011 09:10 PM

He's not going to make it. You know that.



Couch had more skills.



I just get on him less because he was a 3rd round pick.

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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.






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PDR
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #874836 - Tue Dec 06 2011 12:03 AM

Who are the seven who have watched McCoy play and thought 'Yeah, that guy's probably going to make it."

And why?

I can understand hoping for the guy, or wanting to give him some more time, but who's watching him and really liking what they're seeing?

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ThatGuy
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: PDR]
      #874857 - Tue Dec 06 2011 03:05 AM

You might want to re-read the poll...

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YTownBrownsFan
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: ThatGuy]
      #874858 - Tue Dec 06 2011 03:39 AM

Well, 7 people (so far) have picked that McCoy will, more likely than not, be a quality starter.

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Welcome to the Browns Coach Pettine.

Hope you survive the experience.

"Danger is real, but fear is a choice." Cavaliers Coach David Blatt, from his son


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ThatGuy
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: YTownBrownsFan]
      #874861 - Tue Dec 06 2011 04:57 AM

Ok that option is worded horribly...

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TopDawg16
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: ThatGuy]
      #874939 - Tue Dec 06 2011 10:41 AM

Quote:


I don't consider Trent Dilfer to have ever been a Legit Starter, and he won a Super Bowl.




Yeah, but honestly, how often does a Trent Dilfer type win a Super Bowl?


Elite QB's who have won a Super Bowl since 1990

Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Rothlisberger (x2)
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady (x3)
Kurt Warner
John Elway (x2)
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman (x3)
Steve Young
Phil Simms
Joe Montana



Or the Trent Dilfer types

Trent Dilfer
Brad Johnson
Mark Rypien

That's 19 Super Bowls to 3.

Give me an elite QB. I'll take my chances.

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This board has really gone downhill.



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Tyler_Derden
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #875457 - Wed Dec 07 2011 03:34 PM

I think that he is somewhere in the middle of these options....

I don't think he is a proven starter...but I don't think that he is proven to be a flop either.

He needs another year in this system, and the team needs to get better elsewhere before I am ready to judge his aptitude as the QB of this team.

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I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......


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dawgofwar
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #875640 - Thu Dec 08 2011 12:11 AM

I don't see Colt as a anything more than a solid backup and a spot starter. He just hasn't progressed like you want to see a starter.

I don't buy him not having a line and no receivers. That doesnt keep you from missing open receivers or throwing it anywhere but there hands. Yes we lead the league in drops I understand, however alot of the misses are on him.


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THROW LONG
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #876778 - Fri Dec 09 2011 08:52 AM

McCoy is good enough to start in the NFL.

He is NOT good enough to start for the Browns.

That's how it should be.

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" You have to be able to throw the ball and throw the ball effectively in this league to keep up with the better football teams" Warren Moon. 1,8,12. Yes We Can Yes We Can!


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OverToad
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #877257 - Sun Dec 11 2011 01:09 AM

Hey, what do you know! Colt's wife registered and cast her vote!

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Confucius say man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement.


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jfanent
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #877264 - Sun Dec 11 2011 01:52 AM

Quote:

Hey, what do you know! Colt's wife registered and cast her vote!




Wow......but I still want to know who voted him a legitimate starter.

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Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does.


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OverToad
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: jfanent]
      #877269 - Sun Dec 11 2011 02:28 AM

J, Colt has been known to talk to his family several times a week.

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Confucius say man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement.


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THROW LONG
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: THROW LONG]
      #879733 - Sun Dec 18 2011 03:43 AM

Quote:

McCoy is good enough to start in the NFL.

He is NOT good enough to start for the Browns.

That's how it should be.




That 2nd line should have read, He is NOT good enough to be the longterm future starter for the Browns.

Or

He is NOT showing he is capable enough to be the starter on the offense the Browns hope to have in the longterm future.

That's how it should be. Because the Browns should have an offense that is in the top of the league, unstoppable, like a train that just keeps on arriving in the end zone.

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" You have to be able to throw the ball and throw the ball effectively in this league to keep up with the better football teams" Warren Moon. 1,8,12. Yes We Can Yes We Can!


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cfrs15
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: THROW LONG]
      #880302 - Mon Dec 19 2011 04:53 AM

Says who?

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Bard Dawg
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #883391 - Wed Dec 28 2011 04:13 PM

I said less viable than most. He is a crapshoot and he might start. The rest of the O scheme as called certainly haven't helped; by that, I mean the weird myopia Shurmy has, totally avoiding calling stuff that might help. I have pulled for this tough kid with several decks stacked against his success. But i have concluded that the "perfect world" of line, OC, receivers who catch, his own judgment, and the plus intangibles are not there. And it is obvious that we will need more scores, TDs specifically, to significantly improve our wins column. He is struggling in too many areas (maybe) to be worth a longer range development as a starter. If we can have impact with a rook or younger prospect, a Dalton/Newton type, then so be it. It all needs addressed, every position, but are we carrying him or he is carrying the O. I think this is the history of a campaign that failed, or more precisely seems to lack too many points to be workable now. He need to show or get his replacement lined up.

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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880


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FL_Dawg
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: TopDawg16]
      #887733 - Fri Jan 06 2012 06:20 PM

You fogot to mention Mcman (sp?) 85 Bears. Boy did he shuffle out of the League in a hurry after that one.

He has to be the all time worst QB to ever win a SB.

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no_logo_required
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: FL_Dawg]
      #887738 - Fri Jan 06 2012 06:24 PM

Quote:

You forgot to mention Mcman (sp?) 85 Bears. Boy did he shuffle out of the League in a hurry after that one.

He has to be the all time worst QB to ever win a SB.




Mark Rypien.

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"Thereís a phrase for almost losing, itís called winning."
-Coach Pettine


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YTownBrownsFan
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: no_logo_required]
      #887741 - Fri Jan 06 2012 06:35 PM

Trent Dilfer was probably the worst ever to win a Super Bowl.

Rypien was kind of a middle of the road guy ..... decent enough to help a team, but never good enough to carry them. he threw significantly more TD than INT in his career, and wasn't awful .... he just was never a star.

Trent Dilfer had a lot of really awful years, and one decent year. He was lucky enough to play on a team with one of the best defenses ever .... so he got a ring.

--------------------
Welcome to the Browns Coach Pettine.

Hope you survive the experience.

"Danger is real, but fear is a choice." Cavaliers Coach David Blatt, from his son


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214dawg
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: FL_Dawg]
      #887806 - Sat Jan 07 2012 01:34 AM

Quote:

You forgot to mention Mcman (sp?) 85 Bears. Boy did he shuffle out of the League in a hurry after that one.

He has to be the all time worst QB to ever win a SB.




Actually, McMahon was a QB in the league for another 11 seasons. He was 67-30 as a starter in the league. Played with the Chargers, Eagles, Vikings, Cardinals, and Packers.

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2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!


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YTownBrownsFan
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: 214dawg]
      #887807 - Sat Jan 07 2012 01:53 AM

Weird thing about McMahon is that he only went over 2000 yards passing in a season 4 times.

His career high for TD passes was 15. He threw 11 INT the same year.

That was the Bears' Super Bowl year.

He only starter double digit games in a season 5 times. He never started all 16 games in any season.

I would say that he was a better story than QB overall. However, given his record as a starter, and a better TD to INT ratio, I would definitely still put him ahead of Dilfer as a QB. He was never a great QB though.

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Welcome to the Browns Coach Pettine.

Hope you survive the experience.

"Danger is real, but fear is a choice." Cavaliers Coach David Blatt, from his son


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clevesteve
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #888049 - Sat Jan 07 2012 11:13 PM

Matt flynn's performance against Detroit and last year against NEactually gives me some hope for McCoy. He really wasn't all that good coming out of college, but some time in the system and talented receivers around him have allowed him to perform well in his limited opportunities. I certainly think we can upgrade the talent at the qb position, but I'm not convinced that McCoy is completely unable to have better results with more time in the system, good coaching (who knows if he'll get that), and more talent around him.

I'm not saying we should absolutely stick with mccoy or that he's entitled to more time, but it does reinforce to me that we should just make as big of upgrades as we can at every position, whether it be the qb or not.


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FL_Dawg
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: 214dawg]
      #888079 - Sun Jan 08 2012 01:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

You forgot to mention Mcman (sp?) 85 Bears. Boy did he shuffle out of the League in a hurry after that one.

He has to be the all time worst QB to ever win a SB.




Actually, McMahon was a QB in the league for another 11 seasons. He was 67-30 as a starter in the league. Played with the Chargers, Eagles, Vikings, Cardinals, and Packers.




He still was one of the worst QB's to ever win a SB.

DA or BQ probably could have won a SB with his defense in Chicago and I think he had a pretty darn good RB too

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Damanshot
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: OverToad]
      #888156 - Sun Jan 08 2012 01:00 PM

I still think you can't judge McCoy until he gets some players around him that are better than what we have.. So I'll wait and be patient with him...

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If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you



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4yikes2yoshi0
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Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: Damanshot]
      #888224 - Sun Jan 08 2012 04:10 PM

Based off your clinginess to anything in a Browns' uni, you married your high school sweetheart, didn't you?

I'm just curious what McCoy does so well and what background he has coming in that makes you think we need to stick with him? I'm just saying, Daman, even when the time was there to go through the progressions and make throws to guys who were NFL open, what did Colt do in those spaces? The guy was a third round pick, so we haven't invested much money into him as our QB at all, but the time invested right now doesn't seem to indicate we're getting a legit NFL starter. More likely we have a very solid, capable backup. That's not a shot against McCoy, it's just what he probably is. Another year of not being able to stretch the field because no one has to respect our deep ball is just tiresome. Watching receivers led into bone-crushing impacts, below average pocket awareness, limitations in the intermediate/deep level of the field, and all that while he's practically blind to the left side of the field? What does that imply to me, regardless of supporting cast? VERY limited upside and little reason to settle on him as starter for next year. You don't need the 90s Cowboys skill position players and an Olympic sumo wrestling line to gauge your QB play. Professionals will still evaluate and make hard-line choices on his play for what has been in his control. It may be a team game, but I think you- and many other posters- might be skewing the interrelationship too heavily towards cast and giving the QB a free pass.

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Damanshot
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Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 31175
Loc: Aurora, Ohio

Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: 4yikes2yoshi0]
      #888432 - Sun Jan 08 2012 08:25 PM

Quote:

Based off your clinginess to anything in a Browns' uni, you married your high school sweetheart, didn't you?

I'm just curious what McCoy does so well and what background he has coming in that makes you think we need to stick with him? I'm just saying, Daman, even when the time was there to go through the progressions and make throws to guys who were NFL open, what did Colt do in those spaces? The guy was a third round pick, so we haven't invested much money into him as our QB at all, but the time invested right now doesn't seem to indicate we're getting a legit NFL starter. More likely we have a very solid, capable backup. That's not a shot against McCoy, it's just what he probably is. Another year of not being able to stretch the field because no one has to respect our deep ball is just tiresome. Watching receivers led into bone-crushing impacts, below average pocket awareness, limitations in the intermediate/deep level of the field, and all that while he's practically blind to the left side of the field? What does that imply to me, regardless of supporting cast? VERY limited upside and little reason to settle on him as starter for next year. You don't need the 90s Cowboys skill position players and an Olympic sumo wrestling line to gauge your QB play. Professionals will still evaluate and make hard-line choices on his play for what has been in his control. It may be a team game, but I think you- and many other posters- might be skewing the interrelationship too heavily towards cast and giving the QB a free pass.




Nope, didn't marry my HS Sweetheart.. as for the rest of your post.. blah blah blah.. Read stuff I've writen on the subject, it's all there., and I'm not sitting here repeating it for a guy that makes comments like that.... if you don't like it, put me on ignore...

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If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you



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DCDAWGFAN
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Reged: Sep 12 2006
Posts: 30796


Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: 4yikes2yoshi0]
      #888591 - Mon Jan 09 2012 10:35 AM

Quote:

Watching receivers led into bone-crushing impacts,



People keep repeating this but I honestly didn't see McCoy do it any more than I saw other first and second year QBs do it...

Quote:

Professionals will still evaluate and make hard-line choices on his play for what has been in his control.



So if he trots out there to start the 2012 season without a high draft pick waiting behind him, does that mean that the professionals disagree and they are right and you are wrong?

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"Success is not owned, it's leased and the rent is due every day." JJ Watt


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4yikes2yoshi0
Dawg Talker


Reged: Sep 21 2006
Posts: 1853
Loc: The State Up North

Re: Have you given up on Colt McCoy? [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
      #888682 - Mon Jan 09 2012 02:20 PM

The field is just really compressed with the lack of a deep threat and that seeps into problems with the running game and makes YAC near impossible. Cue in the impacts when that happens, too. It's just with his many glaring deficiencies, one of his saving graces was supposed to be his accuracy in the short/intermediate range, and even on short strikes the ball needs to be in stride for our offense. He's under-performed in that area along with decision-making, another alleged strength.

Quote:

So if he trots out there to start the 2012 season without a high draft pick waiting behind him, does that mean that the professionals disagree and they are right and you are wrong?




Yes. Come on, now, I'm not that arrogant. I won't ride the fence on it, but on my worst day I'm not that stubborn...

--------------------
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!


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