OverToad
Legend
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 10970
|
|
I've never in all my years done a poll, so bare with me here...
This is about whether or not you've given up on him. Lemme see how this works, as I may edit it after a try or two...
--------------------
My free agent wishes as of 3/15/13:
Michael Huff, FS
Brent Grimes, Corner
Karlos Dansby, ILB
Brandon Moore, G
Jason Campbell, God
|
|
|
ThatGuy
Hall of Famer
Reged: Jan 29 2010
Posts: 6512
|
|
I was going to start a poll somewhat similar to this, basically asking if people wanted to have McCoy the starter next season, Have competition, or get rid of him...
Beat me too it.. 
PS: I'm done with him.
--------------------
Afghanistan sucks, if you weren't aware...
|
Flap
Dawg Talker
Reged: Sep 21 2006
Posts: 1174
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
|
|
Personally I think this would be a better answer list. I don't know whether or not he's likely to be a legit starter or not, I just know what I would like to see next TC. And for the record, I'd be looking to bring in somebody as competition and see who steps up. I would NOT mortgage the draft in order to do so, however.
--------------------
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
|
DawgMichelle
Legend
Reged: Sep 12 2006
Posts: 10867
Loc: SW Ohio
|
|
I really don't see the point...you can't put having a crappy team entirely on his shoulders.
--------------------
I'll keep my guns & money -- you can keep the "change".
|
ThatGuy
Hall of Famer
Reged: Jan 29 2010
Posts: 6512
|
|
What's the point of that argument?
Noone, not even Django, is saying EVERYTHING is McCoy's fault...
But it's become clear to some, that even when situations are good, He still doesn't have what it takes to be a consistant starting NFL QB...
I don't blame him for drops...
But I do blame him for leading guys like MoMass into constant hits..
I don't blame him when Joe Fricken Thomas gets beat the one time a season he gets beat, on a 7 step drop and he gets sacked.
I do blame him when the pocket is solid and he has ALL DAY to throw, and he winces and runs right into a Dlineman...
There is alot wrong with this team. But it is of my opinion, that if we fixed EVERYTHING ELSE, we'd still need a QB to be a consistantly good team moving forward...
--------------------
Afghanistan sucks, if you weren't aware...
|
DawgMichelle
Legend
Reged: Sep 12 2006
Posts: 10867
Loc: SW Ohio
|
|
I'm not saying he's not at fault or a great player...but until you have a more consistent team in general, how can you have a consistent QB...or any position for that matter?
--------------------
I'll keep my guns & money -- you can keep the "change".
|
no_logo_required
Legend
Reged: Oct 11 2006
Posts: 17307
|
|
Quote:
I'm not saying he's not at fault or a great player...but until you have a more consistent team in general, how can you have a consistent QB...or any position for that matter?
or team has been incredibly consistent. extremely poor team especially on offense (but still, it's consistent)
--------------------
Logos? We don't need no stinking logos.
|
brownsfansince79
Legend
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 14046
|
|
McCoy is less likely to be a viable starter than most
--------------------
He checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
|
ThatGuy
Hall of Famer
Reged: Jan 29 2010
Posts: 6512
|
|
I guess it depends on your definition of a "Legit Starter"
I don't consider Trent Dilfer to have ever been a Legit Starter, and he won a Super Bowl...
7 years from now a starting QB could get hurt, and Colt could come in and manage a team to a SB win...
Does that mean we were wrong to let him go now? No.
--------------------
Afghanistan sucks, if you weren't aware...
|
Tulsa
Hall of Famer
Reged: Sep 21 2006
Posts: 5116
Loc: on a twisty road
|
|
I'm not the biggest of Colt fans this week, or last week for that matter.
I was a bigger Colt fan last season.
I think he needs Delhomme back to mentor him.
|
ThatGuy
Hall of Famer
Reged: Jan 29 2010
Posts: 6512
|
|
I'll be honest, after the Jets game, I thought the search was over, I hitched my wagon up to his F-150 and was ready to cruise into the horizon...
I understand we changed schemes, I understand there was no training camp...
I'm just saying, If we go into next season, with him as the UNQUESTIONED STARTER, There aren;t going to be anymore fluff pieces written for him...
He better come out in that first REGULAR SEASON GAME (also known as, not preseason) And he better be a top 15 QB FROM THE START...
Or we just wasted another season...
JMHO
--------------------
Afghanistan sucks, if you weren't aware...
|
jfanent
Hall of Famer
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 9534
Loc: Oregon, Ohio
|
|
I've given up on McCoy and have no faith he's a legit starter in the NFL . There's no light that's going to suddenly pop on, he's not going to suddenly be able to read defenses, he's not suddenly going to get a strong, accurate downfield arm, and he's not going to suddenly grow 2 inches. None of this is gradually going to happen either, because we would have seen some sort of indication by now.
--------------------
Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does.
|
YTownBrownsFan
Legend
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 29131
Loc: YTown, Ohio
|
|
McCoy has no "plus" skills, and is below average in arm strength, size, accuracy, footwork, pocket awareness, and mechanics.
He has toughness, seems intelligent, seems to be a good leader, has the respect of his teammates, and is hard working.
There are QBs who are effective with only the attributes McCoy possesses ..... but few that win Super Bowls. That should be our target ... winning Super Bowls. Does anyone think, even if we had Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald, that McCoy would be any better than average? I don't. His accuracy is horrible. He leads receivers into bone crushing hits. He does not make an impact on the field. Teams don't even take chances on offense against us because they do not think we can score TDs consistently. I do not believe that McCoy is a Super Bowl QB ... and if he is not, then we should be looking for a QB capable of taking us to a Super Bowl.
No other position on the football field impacts the outcome of a game like the QB does. Great QBs make their teams much better than they would otherwise be. So-so QBs must rely upon great teammates to help cover their deficiencies. They must have great units around them on every side. The team must play perfectly in every regard to win games, because mistakes are fatal. Injuries to teammates will destroy a so-so QB. If a great QB loses his RB, he adapts and makes more plays in the passing game. A so-so QB folds under pressure that will inevitably come in such a situation. He will try to be an impact player, but lacks the ability to do so.
Colt McCoy is a so-so QB, and unfortunately, I do not see that changing. We need to move on and find our own great QB .... one capable of taking us to a Super Bowl.
--------------------
Here We Go Brownies! Here We Go! Woof! Woof!
Welcome Home Chud!
Let's Go Win A Super Bowl or 2! 
|
Ballpeen
Legend
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 20858
|
|
He's not going to make it. You know that.
Couch had more skills.
I just get on him less because he was a 3rd round pick.
--------------------
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
|
PDR
Hall of Famer
Reged: Sep 10 2006
Posts: 9421
|
|
Who are the seven who have watched McCoy play and thought 'Yeah, that guy's probably going to make it."
And why?
I can understand hoping for the guy, or wanting to give him some more time, but who's watching him and really liking what they're seeing?
--------------------
It is possible to learn valuable things from a stupid person. (David Foster Wallace)
|
ThatGuy
Hall of Famer
Reged: Jan 29 2010
Posts: 6512
|
|
You might want to re-read the poll...
--------------------
Afghanistan sucks, if you weren't aware...
|
YTownBrownsFan
Legend
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 29131
Loc: YTown, Ohio
|
|
Well, 7 people (so far) have picked that McCoy will, more likely than not, be a quality starter.
--------------------
Here We Go Brownies! Here We Go! Woof! Woof!
Welcome Home Chud!
Let's Go Win A Super Bowl or 2!
|
ThatGuy
Hall of Famer
Reged: Jan 29 2010
Posts: 6512
|
|
Ok that option is worded horribly...
--------------------
Afghanistan sucks, if you weren't aware...
|
TopDawg16
Legend
Reged: Sep 12 2006
Posts: 10266
|
|
Quote:
I don't consider Trent Dilfer to have ever been a Legit Starter, and he won a Super Bowl.
Yeah, but honestly, how often does a Trent Dilfer type win a Super Bowl?
Elite QB's who have won a Super Bowl since 1990
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Rothlisberger (x2)
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady (x3)
Kurt Warner
John Elway (x2)
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman (x3)
Steve Young
Phil Simms
Joe Montana
Or the Trent Dilfer types
Trent Dilfer
Brad Johnson
Mark Rypien
That's 19 Super Bowls to 3.
Give me an elite QB. I'll take my chances.
--------------------
The Factory of Sadness is now the Garden of Weeden!
|
Tyler_Derden
Hall of Famer
Reged: Oct 21 2006
Posts: 4909
Loc: Here and There
|
|
I think that he is somewhere in the middle of these options....
I don't think he is a proven starter...but I don't think that he is proven to be a flop either.
He needs another year in this system, and the team needs to get better elsewhere before I am ready to judge his aptitude as the QB of this team.
--------------------
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
|
dawgofwar
All Pro
Reged: Sep 12 2006
Posts: 541
Loc: Ventura Ca.
|
|
I don't see Colt as a anything more than a solid backup and a spot starter. He just hasn't progressed like you want to see a starter.
I don't buy him not having a line and no receivers. That doesnt keep you from missing open receivers or throwing it anywhere but there hands. Yes we lead the league in drops I understand, however alot of the misses are on him.
|
THROW LONG
Hall of Famer
Reged: Dec 05 2006
Posts: 3408
|
|
McCoy is good enough to start in the NFL.
He is NOT good enough to start for the Browns.
That's how it should be.
--------------------
" You have to be able to throw the ball and throw the ball effectively in this league to keep up with the better football teams" Warren Moon. 1,8,12. Yes We Can Yes We Can!
|
OverToad
Legend
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 10970
|
|
Hey, what do you know! Colt's wife registered and cast her vote! 
--------------------
My free agent wishes as of 3/15/13:
Michael Huff, FS
Brent Grimes, Corner
Karlos Dansby, ILB
Brandon Moore, G
Jason Campbell, God
|
jfanent
Hall of Famer
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 9534
Loc: Oregon, Ohio
|
|
Quote:
Hey, what do you know! Colt's wife registered and cast her vote!
Wow......but I still want to know who voted him a legitimate starter. 
--------------------
Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does.
|
OverToad
Legend
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 10970
|
|
J, Colt has been known to talk to his family several times a week. 
--------------------
My free agent wishes as of 3/15/13:
Michael Huff, FS
Brent Grimes, Corner
Karlos Dansby, ILB
Brandon Moore, G
Jason Campbell, God
|
THROW LONG
Hall of Famer
Reged: Dec 05 2006
Posts: 3408
|
|
Quote:
McCoy is good enough to start in the NFL.
He is NOT good enough to start for the Browns.
That's how it should be.
That 2nd line should have read, He is NOT good enough to be the longterm future starter for the Browns.
Or
He is NOT showing he is capable enough to be the starter on the offense the Browns hope to have in the longterm future.
That's how it should be. Because the Browns should have an offense that is in the top of the league, unstoppable, like a train that just keeps on arriving in the end zone.
--------------------
" You have to be able to throw the ball and throw the ball effectively in this league to keep up with the better football teams" Warren Moon. 1,8,12. Yes We Can Yes We Can!
|
cfrs15
Hall of Famer
Reged: Jan 20 2009
Posts: 9098
Loc: Monrovia, Ca
|
|
Says who?
|
Bard Dawg
Hall of Famer
Reged: Sep 15 2006
Posts: 4479
Loc: Springfield OH (IO!)
|
|
I said less viable than most. He is a crapshoot and he might start. The rest of the O scheme as called certainly haven't helped; by that, I mean the weird myopia Shurmy has, totally avoiding calling stuff that might help. I have pulled for this tough kid with several decks stacked against his success. But i have concluded that the "perfect world" of line, OC, receivers who catch, his own judgment, and the plus intangibles are not there. And it is obvious that we will need more scores, TDs specifically, to significantly improve our wins column. He is struggling in too many areas (maybe) to be worth a longer range development as a starter. If we can have impact with a rook or younger prospect, a Dalton/Newton type, then so be it. It all needs addressed, every position, but are we carrying him or he is carrying the O. I think this is the history of a campaign that failed, or more precisely seems to lack too many points to be workable now. He need to show or get his replacement lined up.   
--------------------
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
FL_Dawg
Hall of Famer
Reged: May 04 2008
Posts: 6848
Loc: Austinburg OH
|
|
You forgot to mention Mcman (sp?) 85 Bears. Boy did he shuffle out of the League in a hurry after that one.
He has to be the all time worst QB to ever win a SB.
--------------------
|
no_logo_required
Legend
Reged: Oct 11 2006
Posts: 17307
|
|
Quote:
You forgot to mention Mcman (sp?) 85 Bears. Boy did he shuffle out of the League in a hurry after that one.
He has to be the all time worst QB to ever win a SB.
Mark Rypien.
--------------------
Logos? We don't need no stinking logos.
|
YTownBrownsFan
Legend
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 29131
Loc: YTown, Ohio
|
|
Trent Dilfer was probably the worst ever to win a Super Bowl.
Rypien was kind of a middle of the road guy ..... decent enough to help a team, but never good enough to carry them. he threw significantly more TD than INT in his career, and wasn't awful .... he just was never a star.
Trent Dilfer had a lot of really awful years, and one decent year. He was lucky enough to play on a team with one of the best defenses ever .... so he got a ring.
--------------------
Here We Go Brownies! Here We Go! Woof! Woof!
Welcome Home Chud!
Let's Go Win A Super Bowl or 2!
|
214dawg
Dawg Talker
Reged: Sep 16 2006
Posts: 1801
|
|
Quote:
You forgot to mention Mcman (sp?) 85 Bears. Boy did he shuffle out of the League in a hurry after that one.
He has to be the all time worst QB to ever win a SB.
Actually, McMahon was a QB in the league for another 11 seasons. He was 67-30 as a starter in the league. Played with the Chargers, Eagles, Vikings, Cardinals, and Packers.
--------------------
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
|
YTownBrownsFan
Legend
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 29131
Loc: YTown, Ohio
|
|
Weird thing about McMahon is that he only went over 2000 yards passing in a season 4 times.
His career high for TD passes was 15. He threw 11 INT the same year.
That was the Bears' Super Bowl year.
He only starter double digit games in a season 5 times. He never started all 16 games in any season.
I would say that he was a better story than QB overall. However, given his record as a starter, and a better TD to INT ratio, I would definitely still put him ahead of Dilfer as a QB. He was never a great QB though.
--------------------
Here We Go Brownies! Here We Go! Woof! Woof!
Welcome Home Chud!
Let's Go Win A Super Bowl or 2!
|
clevesteve
Hall of Famer
Reged: Feb 04 2007
Posts: 9410
Loc: Pflugerville, TX
|
|
Matt flynn's performance against Detroit and last year against NEactually gives me some hope for McCoy. He really wasn't all that good coming out of college, but some time in the system and talented receivers around him have allowed him to perform well in his limited opportunities. I certainly think we can upgrade the talent at the qb position, but I'm not convinced that McCoy is completely unable to have better results with more time in the system, good coaching (who knows if he'll get that), and more talent around him.
I'm not saying we should absolutely stick with mccoy or that he's entitled to more time, but it does reinforce to me that we should just make as big of upgrades as we can at every position, whether it be the qb or not.
|
FL_Dawg
Hall of Famer
Reged: May 04 2008
Posts: 6848
Loc: Austinburg OH
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
You forgot to mention Mcman (sp?) 85 Bears. Boy did he shuffle out of the League in a hurry after that one.
He has to be the all time worst QB to ever win a SB.
Actually, McMahon was a QB in the league for another 11 seasons. He was 67-30 as a starter in the league. Played with the Chargers, Eagles, Vikings, Cardinals, and Packers.
He still was one of the worst QB's to ever win a SB.
DA or BQ probably could have won a SB with his defense in Chicago and I think he had a pretty darn good RB too
--------------------
|
Damanshot
Legend
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 30162
Loc: Aurora, Ohio
|
|
I still think you can't judge McCoy until he gets some players around him that are better than what we have.. So I'll wait and be patient with him...
--------------------
If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you
|
4yikes2yoshi0
Dawg Talker
Reged: Sep 21 2006
Posts: 1844
Loc: The State Up North
|
|
Based off your clinginess to anything in a Browns' uni, you married your high school sweetheart, didn't you? 
I'm just curious what McCoy does so well and what background he has coming in that makes you think we need to stick with him? I'm just saying, Daman, even when the time was there to go through the progressions and make throws to guys who were NFL open, what did Colt do in those spaces? The guy was a third round pick, so we haven't invested much money into him as our QB at all, but the time invested right now doesn't seem to indicate we're getting a legit NFL starter. More likely we have a very solid, capable backup. That's not a shot against McCoy, it's just what he probably is. Another year of not being able to stretch the field because no one has to respect our deep ball is just tiresome. Watching receivers led into bone-crushing impacts, below average pocket awareness, limitations in the intermediate/deep level of the field, and all that while he's practically blind to the left side of the field? What does that imply to me, regardless of supporting cast? VERY limited upside and little reason to settle on him as starter for next year. You don't need the 90s Cowboys skill position players and an Olympic sumo wrestling line to gauge your QB play. Professionals will still evaluate and make hard-line choices on his play for what has been in his control. It may be a team game, but I think you- and many other posters- might be skewing the interrelationship too heavily towards cast and giving the QB a free pass.
--------------------
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
|
Damanshot
Legend
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 30162
Loc: Aurora, Ohio
|
|
Quote:
Based off your clinginess to anything in a Browns' uni, you married your high school sweetheart, didn't you?
I'm just curious what McCoy does so well and what background he has coming in that makes you think we need to stick with him? I'm just saying, Daman, even when the time was there to go through the progressions and make throws to guys who were NFL open, what did Colt do in those spaces? The guy was a third round pick, so we haven't invested much money into him as our QB at all, but the time invested right now doesn't seem to indicate we're getting a legit NFL starter. More likely we have a very solid, capable backup. That's not a shot against McCoy, it's just what he probably is. Another year of not being able to stretch the field because no one has to respect our deep ball is just tiresome. Watching receivers led into bone-crushing impacts, below average pocket awareness, limitations in the intermediate/deep level of the field, and all that while he's practically blind to the left side of the field? What does that imply to me, regardless of supporting cast? VERY limited upside and little reason to settle on him as starter for next year. You don't need the 90s Cowboys skill position players and an Olympic sumo wrestling line to gauge your QB play. Professionals will still evaluate and make hard-line choices on his play for what has been in his control. It may be a team game, but I think you- and many other posters- might be skewing the interrelationship too heavily towards cast and giving the QB a free pass.
Nope, didn't marry my HS Sweetheart.. as for the rest of your post.. blah blah blah.. Read stuff I've writen on the subject, it's all there., and I'm not sitting here repeating it for a guy that makes comments like that.... if you don't like it, put me on ignore...
--------------------
If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you
|
DCDAWGFAN
Legend
Reged: Sep 12 2006
Posts: 29071
|
|
Quote:
Watching receivers led into bone-crushing impacts,
People keep repeating this but I honestly didn't see McCoy do it any more than I saw other first and second year QBs do it...
Quote:
Professionals will still evaluate and make hard-line choices on his play for what has been in his control.
So if he trots out there to start the 2012 season without a high draft pick waiting behind him, does that mean that the professionals disagree and they are right and you are wrong?
--------------------
To all the ladies... peace and humptiness forever.
|
4yikes2yoshi0
Dawg Talker
Reged: Sep 21 2006
Posts: 1844
Loc: The State Up North
|
|
The field is just really compressed with the lack of a deep threat and that seeps into problems with the running game and makes YAC near impossible. Cue in the impacts when that happens, too. It's just with his many glaring deficiencies, one of his saving graces was supposed to be his accuracy in the short/intermediate range, and even on short strikes the ball needs to be in stride for our offense. He's under-performed in that area along with decision-making, another alleged strength.
Quote:
So if he trots out there to start the 2012 season without a high draft pick waiting behind him, does that mean that the professionals disagree and they are right and you are wrong?
Yes. Come on, now, I'm not that arrogant. I won't ride the fence on it, but on my worst day I'm not that stubborn... 
--------------------
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
|
 Assassin51
Rookie
Reged: Jan 24 2012
Posts: 53
|
|
Quote:
Actually, McMahon was a QB in the league for another 11 seasons. He was 67-30 as a starter in the league. Played with the Chargers, Eagles, Vikings, Cardinals, and Packers.
Dont forget our Browns and Rypien as well....picked option 3
|
ohio1974
Rookie
Reged: Dec 25 2007
Posts: 62
Loc: Painesville,Ohio
|
|
Given up ? I think the hole fanbase has given up. If overtoad even posted this he's already a bandwagon fan!!! (He should be a fan of another team because he's clueless when it comes to the NFL) I mean to even ask if we want this guy as a starter is the dumbest thing I've ever seen on a message board before. Maybe that's why this team always sucks? Maybe he (overtoad) should just coach this joke so we can all win 4 to 6 games a year.....ya think? Have we have given up? maybe YOU have but I'm not!!!.......I think we could trade or draft for a QB better than Tim Couch's Clone (Colt McCoy) or sister in this case. I don't know maybe trade for Peyton Manning? plus he's coming off an injury so now would be the the time to trade for him ya think??? Colt McCoy........ what a joke that is and to tell me you people want to start him again? I ask why have we not seen this movie before?....I thought god was a browns fan? Maybe not..... but we should look somewhere else for a starter overtoad.
Edited by ohio1974 (Wed Jan 25 2012 02:49 PM)
|
Damanshot
Legend
Reged: Sep 11 2006
Posts: 30162
Loc: Aurora, Ohio
|
|
WOW WOW WOW
How to win friends and influence people....
--------------------
If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving isn't for you
|
no_logo_required
Legend
Reged: Oct 11 2006
Posts: 17307
|
|
but hey, sounds like we're trading for Peyton Manning 
--------------------
Logos? We don't need no stinking logos.
|
Cyberdawg4h
All Pro
Reged: Mar 21 2007
Posts: 875
|
|
Put talent around him and let's see. He has little to nothing and is in his... second maybe 3rd depending on Childress' approach, offense?
|
THROW LONG
Hall of Famer
Reged: Dec 05 2006
Posts: 3408
|
|
Another idea, see how the talent they have looks around a better quarterback. Better yet, do BOTH!
--------------------
" You have to be able to throw the ball and throw the ball effectively in this league to keep up with the better football teams" Warren Moon. 1,8,12. Yes We Can Yes We Can!
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
Share:
