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If it wasn't for the profanity I'd put up the youtube link to the Jeff Daniels open of the HBO show The Newsroom. I thought it did an excellent job of defining America's greatness and her potential.

You must not have been paying attention to what has been happening in Europe lately. I guess you want to wait until those terrorists events are a daily event here before anything is done. They already screwed up in the name of multiculturalism and non-integration. Do you really want to be that much like Europe?

I forgot.

Was this the United States of America, or the United States of Europe?

Are European citizens now allowed to vote in our elections?

Link please.

You do realize that you live in a country which is the literal definition of multiculturalism and globalization, right?

Did you even read what I wrote, or is your main function to tangent away from anything you disagree with?

If we allow unfettered immigration, like Europe, we will see the same problems Europe is seeing now. We've already seen how it's gone bad there, and 1/2 of our politicians want to repeat that folly. When you add in hitlary's tax plan, we will become more like Europe (something I don't want if you need it pointed out to you).

I already posted the clean version on the last page

I read your post. And just like everything else, I disagree with you. And just like all the other times, I'll tell you why.

You just said, and I quote "they screwed up in the name of multiculturalism and non-integration".

Are we not the epitome of multiculturalism on this planet? Yes, yes we are.

Our country was multicultural before it was popular.

Europe is not the US. Also, we already have Syrian refugees here.

The Europeans had problem out the gate.

So far here? I'm still waiting.

You seem to either forget or completely ignore the fact that when it comes to multiculturalism and globalization, we were Europe before Europe was Europe.

We already had all these nations mixed yo(yes, even Muslims and other Arab nations) before Europeans EU stuff.

All things being considered, it's working quite nice over here. Hell, it's GREAT compared to Europe.

So do I want unvetted immigrations by the masses over here? No.

And I've already said that over and over again. So I dunno why you keep asking that stupid ass question when I already gave you the answer.

However, taking our situation into consideration, I'm not opposed to a gradual increase of refugees.

How were handling the crisis is completely different than how Europe handled it. We are bringing them over in small amounts, allowing them to integrate and such. The Europeans had just said "F it" and allowed them to come over by the masses with no system in place for integration. Which, btw, they already was doing a crap job of integration with the LEGAL immigrants and citizens they already had.

The process, which once again, you're either completely oblivious to, or are CHOOSING to ignore it.

At this point, I'm going to chalk it up to you willingly ignoring the differences in policies.

So I'm done with this refugee convo with you, for now.

When the refugees start wrecking our country like they do Europe, let's have this convo again.

Til then? Kick rocks.

If you read my post, where did the 'are Europeans allowed to vote' comments come from. I never said anything of the sort.

So, you'd rather wait until everything is screwed up before doing anything. You must read more history. When this country had large immigrations before, we took in who we wanted and forced integration on them. We made them learn about America, being an American, and having them take an oath of loyalty to the USA. Right now, we are bringing people in without that, and promising to take care of them. That is the problem Europe created for itself.

Yes, we are a nation of many peoples from many different places, because they all wanted to become Americans. My family came here in 1848 and strove to become Americans. The came here for the opportunities available that were not available in Germany (or Prussia, if you prefer). They did not come here to make America more like Germany. They kept the parts of their culture they liked best (food, beer, the pickle on a xmas tree) and left behind others. We must bring in those that make our country better, and will become American.

The European voting comment was a jab, bro.

You keep pointing to European failure with refugees, but you keep forgetting that we have refugees here and we aren't having problems.

I'm sorry bro, but your comments only make since if A: we didn't have refugees here YET, and B: we lived in Europe and brought them in by the masses.

Except none of that is true. We don't live in Europe, and we ALREADY have refugees here.

Your last post was beautiful. Beautiful bro.

So what's upsetting me us that you're not even giving these people a chance to be Americans, yet they ALREADY live here. How do you know they don't like America?

If that was true, how come we haven't had any Syrians bomb us? Those refugees in Minnesota, for example, have intergrated.

This is why I jab at you. This is why I take little you say seriously on this topic. This is why I question you every single time.

You are so quick to use examples overseas, because it fits your ideology. Your beliefs about refugees.

Yet you won't use the examples readily available to you RIGHT HERE IN AMERICA, because the facts are completely opposite of the crap you're trying to convince me off. It fkies right into the face of your agenda.

So save that rhetoric for somebody willing to buy it. Like 40. He'll listen to you. But I won't.

I had to laugh when Kaine said that the Republicans came from immigrant families too, unless they were Native Americans.

True.

However, he is greatly overlooking the immigrant population from the past. They came here wishing to assimilate, NOT to: change the culture, make Americans meet their cultural/religious requirements, speak their own language expecting interpreters for their needs or expecting exemptions from American culture because of their beliefs.

Additionally, speaking spanish did not impress me at all! Big deal, millions of Americans speak spanish including my 15 year old son.

Here's a piece of poetic justice, mixed with healthy dollop of schadenfreude to consider:

Clinton gets elected, and appoints Obama for Scalia's empty post.

That sound you'd hear would be 301 GOP heads simultaneously exploding.

Prob never happen, but I just like the idea that it could.

Luckily that pipe dream would be so shut down by my Senate.

This is hilarious. Two people who like their own post.

They would flip bro. The crying that would happen. So glorious. The tears!!!

No tears, just NO.

As I have been telling you for years now, we the people are taking our Country back. First the House, then the Senate, now try to guess what is next.

If Hillary names Obama a justice, I'm putting crying Jordan faces on all the republican senators.

Please don't tell me how to use my vote. Especially since you've either voted for McCain, Romney, Obama, Kerry or Bush. You might as well have put another nail in the coffin of this country voting for a democrat or a republican. Just because they can keep their promises to you, doesn't mean you should elect them. Not all change is good change. Vote with who you believe will be the best reflection of your ideas. That's how our democratic society works. And unless you're part of the 1% then there's no reason to be voting for the major parties. They don't care about you. You voting for them is doing as much of your civic duty as you not voting. Vote for someone who represents you. Not because you think they can do a bunch of their plans. Pragmaticism kills nations.

You can vote for whoever you want.

But don't feed me your line of crap. If a libertarian party becomes popular, then all that stuff you said about the two major parties becomes just as much as a problem for the libertarian party.

Don't forget. Gary is still a politician. He just be a third party president still dealing with a two party congress.

Just because they can keep their promises(aka, the ideology and policies I believe in) doesn't mean you should elect them?

Tell me, did you read that out loud before you hit submit? That's what voting had been about since 1776. Chill out.

I've posted repeatedly about Syrian emigres in America. Factual data, based on real-life situations not 10 minutes from my house. Yes- there are vetted, transplanted Syrians in my town right now.

Getting English lessons
Getting job training
Getting their kids enrolled in school
Joining community organizations
Joining churches (yes- some of them are Christian by faith) and the local mosque

And you know what?
No bombs
No trucks
No guns
No violence- none.

Does this not sound exactly like what you described? Assimilation? Adopting the 'American way of life?' Sure sounds like it to me.

So when people who've never even seen a Syrian try to convince me of their boilerplate arguments, I just laugh. I laugh because the reality taking place right here in my town shoots down (in flames) every single point they're trying to make. They can only sell that dumptruck full of organic fertilizer to someone who hasn't seen it up-close and personal. That ain't me.

I'm proud of what my town has done. They've lived the American creed in real life, and have helped at least 60-100 others have their chance to do the same.

If Agent Orange had won the 2012 election, none of this could have been possible.


So... because I'm a nice guy, I won't even make anyone hunt for my past posts. I'll just this here for your convenience. I heard this on my way home from work last fall, and was smiling ear-to-ear. Not because it would give me talking points for the next (futile) political argument at DT, but because it was a beautiful, uplifting story. We don't get enough of those, even though they're happening every day- somewhere.

Click the listen button... and pay particular attention to what you hear at the 3:30 mark. Then, truly listen deep at the 5:3 point. That's MY America. I like mine better than I like Orangeboy's.


http://www.npr.org/2015/10/20/450221327/...ricas-heartland

Enjoy.

If the libertarian party becomes popular they'll make it into a 3 party system. And then other parties will be able to elbow their way into the system. You and I both know that a multiparty system is the only way for advancement of our democracy.

Can you say that your Presidential vote did not support a horrible candidate? I can.

Maybe. But again, I'm not gonna vote third party just to vote third party. Gary has to prove something, at least on the debate stage.

You said it yourself sometimes change isn't good. And I agree, which is why I'm not gonna blindly throw a vote for a third party candidate just because. We don't know what this guy will do once he's in office any more than we know of Trump or Clinton.

So yes, I can say so far my vote hasn't supported a horrible candidate. I voted in two elections. Obama twice. I think he's a great candidate. If he ran today, he'd beat Trump.

So we definitely don't relate in this one bro.

Chances are a 3rd party candidate supports your vision of America better than one of the major two parties.

Maybe.

I understand. However, we also have the other faction of "immigrants" in this country as well.

As I have stated many times, we must be vigilant in our quest for a peaceful and harmonious society and not turn a blind eye to the evolution of immigration while appreciating and recognizing the goodness as well.

You can tell your stories and I will appreciate them. However, I refuse to ignore the reality of what is occuring in front of my very eyes as well. It's called balance.

Check out Dearborn Michigan. Last I checked, Michigan was a state in the US.

Thanks for the insight. Hope you appreciate mine.

That right there^^^

Not near enough of that to go around.

Oh, that city?

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/9328288

Yea, you might want cool the sharia law nonsense.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/12/dearborns-anti-isis-rally/

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2015/12/02/a...christmas-town/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/sharia.asp


But it's like Newt said. Cjrae values feelings over facts.

Yep 40. No surprise when the kool aid drinkers sip yet again............

Assimilate to what? We as a Nation no longer know who we are or what we stand for as the Left has turned everything upside down.

What was Moral is now oppressive, good and evil have switched places.

Perhaps we should end ALL immigration to the US until we have assimilated the 12 million we let come here illegally!

On many subjects, I do... and I never hesitate to mention it when I do. I try my best to be fair in that regard.

But it's more of a challenge to do so, when you say:



Please don't assume that I am somehow brainwashed because I don't approach this issue from your POV. I see the same news headlines as you. I know what's happening in the world. I'm not blind. The difference between us isn't in what we see... it's in our reactions to it.

And yes... I've spent more time in Dearborn than probably anyone else on this board. It's a 40-minute drive from my front door. I've been doing gigs there for almost 30 years, and have at least a half-dozen good friends from there who make music with me several times per year. I know Dearborn. Well.

I'll also float this out for anyone to consider: there HAVE been incidents of violence in Dearborn over the last 10 years... and it has always, always been the immigrants who were the victims. Assaults. Bullying incidents. Anti-Islamic graffiti spray painted on houses of worship. And they just take it, without ever striking back.

I really don't expect my words to land with any authority, because it has to be lived in order to be understood. When I first moved here, there was a learning curve. It took a year or two before I found my comfort zone. They dressed differently. They talked with thick accents. I avoided them (no easy task). That all changed when I took on a private student. I met his family, their friends... and was welcomed with open arms. That's when I had to check myself. I'm glad I did, too. My life is better for knowing these fine American citizens.

But hey- my story isn't everybody else's story. Maybe there is a board member or two who has had a nasty experience with "one of those people." If so, I'll pay attention to what they write. Until then, I'll let my own experiences guide my steps. 'Automatic mistrust/skepticism' simply cannot be my default setting.

So what your really saying is that the Dems have put more time and effort into polishing their turd than the Republicans did.

The news is playing in the background. I swear, if I have to listen to Hillary's voice for the next four years I'll spaz. It is the most grating noise I've ever heard come from a woman. And the way she emphasises her points only makes it worse.

She's horrible at speechifyin'. Stiff, artificial, stilted, wooden...
Barely tolerable in pressers.

And the alternative is even worse for me. Tone, timbre, word choice...

Agreed, 100%, my friend. I think it's a complete reflection of what they are preachin'.

I hope you are doing well, I miss the days when you and I were here more.