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Glw12 #1380517 12/29/17 06:41 PM
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He is tough, he does have a strong arm, athletic ability...I don't know about the adversity stuff I think that is a little dramatic.

My only beef with him is that he is so woeful in the most important VIRTUE of your starting QB accuracy. And I don't see much holding him back in that department except for the fact he just IS NOT ACCURATE and never has been.

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eotab #1380518 12/29/17 06:46 PM
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I agree. He turns receivers around darn near every throw. Hard to get YAC after that. Even on swing passes he turns 'em around.


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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I agree. He turns receivers around darn near every throw. Hard to get YAC after that. Even on swing passes he turns 'em around.


And those are his Completions...a high % of the 53% you know around #42 in the NFL (over 100 passes) and that is with a 70% game the other week to help his stats...lol laugh

But watching him is heart breaking.

Just look at those highlights showing all the TARGETS of Coleman...pitiful.

But yeah the YAC opportunities are terrible and especially on high percentage passes.

What gets me also is that in preseason he was hitting on the deep passes where I thought ok, he's a rookie but at least he will hit that open deep pass which would open up that run game everyone is talking about that we should have going.

But he is so woeful...I mean I did see him hit ONE DEEP PASS recently but sorry its a pass a rookie should make.

jmho


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This will be Kizers last NFL game as a starter!


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Right now Kizer is a turnover machine. He does poorly in the red zone.

The rest can be discussed back and forth. I don’t know if he will improve or not. But risking the future based on what he has shown would be a fools gamble.


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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Originally Posted By: edromeo
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
True, but I think you're missing my point. Kizer is inaccurate. He can't consistently deliver the ball to the receiver where he can make the catch and turn it into YAC. Do we have issues with the talent at our WR group? Yes, but that only goes so far towards explaining away Kizer's lack of accuracy.
I'm not missing your point at all. I just don't agree. Its okay to disagree.

Let's say a man is thrown into lake Erie wearing a 250 lbs weight vest and is drowning. I'm not going to say he's drowning because he can't do the breaststroke.


This kid has played QB for quite a few years. If he is not accurate at this point , he never will be. He has the other assets needed, but inaccurate QBs don't make it in the NFL.


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Originally Posted By: edromeo
Originally Posted By: mgh888

I think everything you said is 100% accurate with regard to Kizer and his challenges.

With that said - I personally think there is so much development needed that to consider Kizer as your bonafide 'future franchise QB' .... meaning to ignore taking one of: Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Jackson or Mayfield (assuming the scounting/GM says that one of them is most likely a future franchise QB) would be total folly.
But the bolded and underlined portion of your post is an impossibility. Considering one of the prospects a likely future franchise is mere guesswork. All any GM/scout can do is rank the prospects based on their skillset. Projection is nothing more then prognostication. You can't draft a 'franchise' QB a prospect has to become a franchise QB and that only happens IF a franchise is able to put the right pieces around them for them to succeed or fail. Case in point is Goff year 1 vs year 2. Sure Goff had a year of experience but the entire situation around him changed.

But, I agree IF one of those prospect is more likely to become a franchise QB then Kizer then by all means draft them. But how do you know? As a prospects their skillsets aren't head and shoulders better then Kizer. Especially considering that Kizer has a year playing under the toughest circumstances possible....unless Kizer is broken.




No-one that gets drafted is a sure thing. Miles Garret who was one of the most consensus #1 picks that I can remember had detractors and people with the opinion that Solomon Thomas or a.n.other player should have been the pick ..... arguing or debating that "we don't know" who the next Franchise QB is because it's all unknown is a really idiotic discussion. I think everyone KNOWS that the draft is a crap shoot and the QB position even more so. There are lots and lots of reasons for that. . . . . But at the end of the day the Brains trust of the Browns need to determine what they believe to be the highest probability of likely successful outcome. OF COURSE FOR ANYONE WITHOUT A TIME MACHINE OR A CRYSTAL BALL - THAT BOILS DOWN TO "GUESSWORK". And yes, no one will "know" .... And yes - you don't draft a franchise QB, you HOPE you draft a future franchise QB. That doesn't need to be discussed does it? Really?

As for the skill sets of the top 3-5 rookie QB's compared to Kizer's ... based on college and 15 NFL games for Kizer - I disagree 100% that their isn't significant difference. I think all of the rookie prospects have accuracy head and shoulders ahead of Kizer. And from watching a few highlight snaps, which for sure isn't a good sample size or fair, Mayfield and Rosen both show the ability to go through progressions which I have not seen from Kizer.

If I was a new franchise and starting out assembling a team - and my choices are Rosen. Darnold, Jackson or Kizer .... Personally Kizer is last on the list. The only thing that clouds the issue for the Browns and the reason this is a debate/issue is that kizer is already on our team ... it hurts and pains us to have to spend draft collateral on a QB in the draft (that comes with all the risk regardless of how highly the QB is graded) when there *might be* a pretty good QB already on the team. . . . whatever.

Regardless of Kizer playing under tough circumstances and bad WR's and questionable play calling, it's real simple - do YOU want to tie the success of the franchise to Kizer and not draft a QB AND not take Smith/Cousins/F.A? Because if you want rely entirely on Kizer based on what he has shown as an NFL player so far, then I think you are nuts. If you want hedge your bets and take a QB as insurance .... you either take the best you can or you're simply *wishing* for something miraculous to happen which isn't really much of a plan.

Last edited by mgh888; 12/29/17 09:41 PM.

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