DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 25 Decisions That Transformed The Cleveland Browns

For the most part I'm j/c...


I don't want to turn this into another Sashi thread. It's been beaten to death by many...

But I have to say you're doing it wrong.

Sashi didn't fail. He did exactly what he said he would do. Part of the plan was in year 3 to do exactly what Dorsey did and spend assets and upgrade the team. People act like Sashi didn't have a plan and aimlessly drafted multiple players in hopes of hitting on one. And some people act as if Sashi wasn't going to use the assets he accumulated and was just going to keep trading back and form a band of misfits from lesser picks and that was his brilliant plan. This was not the case at all.

We hit on a lot of players under Sashi. Because they are gone means nothing. Absolutely nothing. A new GM is going to gut a team and transform it into his own. Dorsey has done that. Dorsey has done a heck of a job of it and he deserves all the credit in that regard. However, he could not do so without ALL THE ASSETS we had accumulated the previous 2 years which includes Kizer, Peppers, 2nd rd draft picks, EVERYTHING!

Out of the past 2 drafts, I can count 18 (EIGHTEEN!!!)! EIGHTEEN players who are still in the NFL. I'd say of those 18, 11 of them have a significant role or are starting with another team...

Ogbah
Nassib
Schobert
Kindred
Devalve
Higgins
Garrett
Peppers
NJoku
Ogunjobi
Zane

I didn't even count the back-up quarterbacks or the Colemans.

I don't know the answer, but I'd LOVE someone to go show me any teams draft over the 2016 and 2017 seasons and compare how many NFL players came out of them. Did some teams have a great few rounds with great players, sure, but how many teams can say that 18 of their players or whatever the number actually is are still in the NFL. I would guess none, but I honestly don't know.

We actually hit on some picks in the later rounds that after some development turned out to be good players... Schobert, Ogunjobi, Kindred, and Higgins to name a few.

I believe there are many people who misinterpret what Sashi and his group were trying to accomplish, but by golly they were on their way. I do not believe he failed.

Ok.

You need your house painted. If I tell you I'm going to paint your house, but I'm going to do it the best way I know how and will paint you the best house that's ever been painted, but it'll take me 5 months to do... You say that's ok and hire me. So I get a paint peeler, strip the paint, tape off certain areas, I might test certain paints, or search for the best prices to try and save a buck or two on certain things, or make sure this is done right or that and after two months you say, hey dude, I don't have all day, you're fired... Did I necessarily fail? I told you it would take 5 months, but after 2 months I was fired from the job. I didn't fail. I wasn't given the chance to succeed.

Next guy comes along, you tell him you don't care what it costs, just get the house painted by the end of the month. He looked at what had been done and says heck yes I'll paint your house. And holy moly, the hard stuff is done, the last guy stripped the old paint, bought all the supplies and paint... all the new guy had to do was apply the paint and fast. He hired a ginormous crew and the house was painted in a week. But my goodness, the house came out looking like a dream! The new guy did such a wonderful job! Of course you think the last guy had no clue what he was doing, all the while, you had no idea how crappy your house would look if I didn't strip the paint, add primer or whatever before I got to the actual painting part.

And...

Lastly, I really wish people wouldn't interpret my posts as a lovefest for Sashi and that I wish he was still here, blah blah blah. I am happier than a clam that Dorsey is here and that we're ready to win NOW. I wouldn't change this for anything. I've said this numerous times.

And I guess it doesn't matter if people think Sashi was worthless or he failed. I don't really care, but since this is a message board, I'll post my opinions... I just can't see how anyone can say Sashi and his group failed or were worthless or did nothing. We've been dormats for 25+ years and being told we have a college atmosphere and this is a place just to collect a paycheck, yada yada yada, blah blah blah, but now we're on the brink of something great. I'm sure most people realize this doesn't happen overnight.

And yes, sure, some aren't going to give any credit to anything that happened before. That's fine, good for them. Again, I honestly have no idea how anyone can logically think that Dorsey could have done what he did without what happened the two years prior to his arrival. And maybe I'm wrong, but it just doesn't make sense to me that if we had hired Dorsey in 2016 that we'd already be talking about how we went to the playoffs last season. If some want to believe that, that's fine with me, I just don't.

"You know what? You've got to get (Hue Jackson) players. And you know what? I'll come straight out with it. The guys who were here before, that system, they didn't get real players.'' - John Dorsey

and now you're trolling.... stop.

It's already been pointed out how poorly he drafted. It's already been pointed out what Dorsey thought of the talent here.

Yet it seems you think you know more than Dorsey. Maybe I'm not the one who needs to stop trying to rewrite history here.

device, there are folks who have difficulty see things in anything but black and white. so when you try to provide some color to a situation it just goes right over their heads. truth is, for a few people on here if you paint sashi with anything less than two horns, a tail and breathing fire you will be accused of nominating him for the browns hall of fame.

I do think this article by lesmires (bad spelling) was a pretty good breakdown of what it took to take us from 1-31 to in the hunt for the division. should be a fun season.

I will just chip in that the reason Sashi failed was the QB... In the NFL, the QB is the beginning, middle and end. And Sashi failed to find one.

When two of his passes (Wentz, Watson) started to produce, be became the stupidest man on earth. All those draft choices, and the master plan did not matter, and he was gone.

The first thing for Dorsey was the QB. It was Mayfield.... No messing around, no second thought no playing what ifs, just get your guy and go.

Well, that does sound like a good idea, but remember the beating that Tim Couch took, and how it destroyed him. In Carson Wentz's first year in the league, we gave up 66 sacks. 50 the next year. QBs do not win games from a hospital bed.

Last year, we gave up less than 40 sacks, 13 of those on Taylor. Baker took only 25 or 26 of those. Some of that was his own ability, some was the quality of the players assembled around him.

Spending an overall #1 on a QB to be a punching bag can be a bad investment. Wentz has been a bit injury prone as it is.

Did Sashi "fail" as a GM, well, sure, but did he FAIL at doing the job he was assigned to do, I don't really think so. IMO they just did not plan on Hue Jackson being so spectacularly bad, but, that too has now come to work out in our favor.

I think Sashi knew from day one that his days were numbered after the tear-down and asset acquisition phase was done.

I have stated my position regarding Sashi, and I'm not here to get into yet another argument about it. But I do want to say again, because it is significant, that Sashi never held the title of GM. During the time he was the VP of football operations, the GM position was vacant.

This is false.

Sashi was quoted by Browns staffers as telling Haslam that if he planned on blowing this up in couple years to not even hire him in the first place. Haslam assured him the allotted time to conduct the turnaround, but he went back on his word and fired Sashi anyway.

The evil Haslam decided to hire someone who actually knew how to build a good NFL roster and build a team that could compete with anyone. What was he thinking?

I'm sure the few select posters pushing their wild theory feel our former team tear downer could have done the same with zero evidence to substantiate that.

You would have to be a total clueless idiot not to see it coming.

Somebody had to be sacrificed.

Picked out of obscurity. No previous experience. Made moves to be bad NOW, but prepared with a foundation to make a move in the future.

If the plan truly was to do a two-year tank, that would have to be kept a deep dark secret all around.

If he truly did not realize what the outcome was going to be for him, I would be greatly surprised.

Would be interesting to look at his salary, on the job, previous salary, and compared to others in the same position. Could be his compensation package is substantial.

That might lend some significance to his actual job title.

Oh no, not another one.




The plan wasn't a two-year tank...

Then whatever the plan was it was executed terribly.

It is what they achieved.

It is a winning strategy, in the long-term.

Sashi was not otherwise a reasonable GM candidate.

You guys are severely misinformed....


good luck.

I watched what actually happened. What did you see happen?

What was absolutely predictable from the moves made?

I do not think Sashi was supposed to keep the job more than two years.

Noting that he was ever named as GM, why is this so? Salary requirements? Why would somebody so minimally qualified to do the winning GM job, chosen to be, apparently, not technically the GM?

The picks and money available for a qualified, winning GM, are what has put us over the top, going from 0-16 to a Super Bowl pick in two years, with assets and cash to spend to keep it going.

What other strategy can you describe that gets us to this place in that short a period of time?

We've been through this several times on this board, there are thoughts littered about in regards to this subject.

I have no beef or no ill feeling towards you. You made something up that wasn't true. I just simply corrected you. I should have just kept my mouth shut because I should have known who would show up... I'm sorry.

The anti-Sashi crowd will continue to make up falsehoods about Sashi until...well who knows until when... They will bash him far more than those who are grateful will praise him. Don't be one of them... or do, I don't care.

You are stating the plan was not as I speculate, on the basis of second-hand accounts of a conversation that may, or may not, have actually taken place.

IF, repeat IF, the plan WAS as I speculate, efforts would need to be made to conceal it from the league, as well as general public. Those efforts could take many forms, people reporting second-hand conversations could be one of them.

I look at it like a business decision, short-term pain for long-term gain. It worked, other teams are following our lead, because it worked.

I do not think the plan could have been executed as well as it was without at least a few people, such as Sashi, being totally aware of what the plan was, and what the likely consequences would be.

IMO most of the Sashi-bashers are just looking for cover as to why Hue was so godawful.

I am NOT saying Sashi was good, just that he did the intended job as planned. Kinda like a kamikaze pilot, he knew it would not end well for him.

Other than the comment about looking for cover as to why Hue was god awful, I wouldn't say there is much truth to what you said.

The plan wasn't to lose. I think a lot of people misinterpret it as such...but that wasn't the plan.

The thing is if you read what "the plan" was as Sashi laid it out in 2016 and look where we are in year 4, we are exactly where Sashi envisioned the Browns to be. Did he think he was going to be fired? Heck no. Was he going to hire a GM at some point to aid in player selecting and drafting? I couldn't tell you. I did say at one time it was entirely plausible that we could have had BOTH Sashi and Dorsey here (and that's my opinion).

And people are getting caught up on who is making these selections. And I don't really care who is making the selections. Is that a big part of where we are? Sure! But the bulk of my argument is that the Sashi "plan" worked... because here we are.

Sashi will be be bashed for life I'm sure, but I'd imagine he's grinning from ear to ear because the plan he implemented here in Cleveland rebuilt the Browns. And yes, there was a lot of luck that went along with this. I would go as far as to say the plan worked better than expected and that's why some are trying to duplicate it.


So.... I'm sorry to the board for all the Sashi talk and I'm guessing I'm getting right up there now as one who mentions his name the most and that's just fine. Apparently that's a big deal around here.

As the resident Sashi Cultist I feel an obligation to chime in and spread His Word.

I too think a Sashi/Dorsey combination could have been a possibility had things panned out a tad different. In fact I believe I lamented that previously. I think the proof that what Sashi was doing IS a part of what is going on now is in the presence of DePodesta. From all accounts Sashi and DePo were simpatico on what they were doing. I don't think there's any report of any friction between them.

Logic says if what Sashi was doing was a failure, then what DePo was doing was a failure.

DePo is still here doing what he has been doing.

Nelson, I don't agree that Sashi saw the writing on the wall from the beginning, although I'd imagine he knew there was a risk. I'd suggest it probably wasn't until he took the bullet Hue fired when he went rogue and tried to get Mcarron.

Sashi died so that this franchise could live.

I just want to point out this thread had absolutely nothing to do with Sashi -vs- Dorsey, but thanks for crapping all over it anyway.

That's how things sometimes go.

Are you new to DT?

I believe you. I tried to warn you because I know enough about the author of the articles to know that he is a "blank" dude and that would only lead to guys like device turning this into yet another "blank" thread.

You misunderstood my position and here we are.

Like I said earlier...........it's time to let it go, but some will not allow it. The freaking guy will never get another job in the NFL in a similar role. There are reasons for that.

Seriously dude?

You're so full of bologna. I wasn't the one who turned this into a Sashi fest. You and your cronies are the ones who brought him up in first place, which is typically the case.

But you will stop at nothing and make up whatever lies you can to drag my name thru the mud. I'm sure the people who post here and read here are tired of you calling out my name and then me continually having to defend the lies you make up about me.

But whatever, just keep doing you if it makes you happy.

Yes!!

But then guys like Pit and Vers show up and spew their hate for Sashi. I replied to them. I 100% didn't start it. They were TROLLING. I fell for it.