DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Duke Johnson asks to be traded

We are entering another batch of uncharted territory...we are debating/lamenting that we have TOO MUCH talent to spread the ball around on Offense. What have we become?

I'd agree with all of this. What we're not adding in is the compensation we'd be offered in a trade.


Me, I prefer to play it safe. I doubt the compensation we'd get for Duke Johnson matches the importance of having him here if Nick Chubb was to go down.


We're going for it this year. And I just don't think we have the luxury of letting Duke go before Week 8.

It doesn't necessarily have to be at the expense of anyone. There are ways to put him on the field with those other players you mentioned and increase productivity, because when given the ball, Duke has proven to be one of the most efficient players in the NFL. Could that efficiency go down with more opporunities to make plays? Sure. There is only one way to find out.

That's making the assumption that Duke would be the one to replace Chubb as the primary RB due to injury. Yet the Browns have always found another starting RB rather than allow that role to be filled by Duke.

And I did not respond to that idea. I responded to:

"Yes, it is cheap. And yes, I think many people think he has far better ability relative to the price and wish he was used more."

And asked where he would be used more, and whose reps he would take.

Now one thing that could reasonably happen is that we have more offensive reps as we become a more prolific offense, and Duke, along with everyone else, sees more opportunities come his way. Our opponents ran roughly 100 more plays than we did last year. If we increase there, he could see a few more chances.

You're looking at this the wrong way. It's not about "reps" and it's a 1:1 thing relative to another player. You can put Duke almost anywhere on the field. That should be leveraged, and to a certain extent it has in the past. I subscribe it should be leveraged more.

Of course it does. You have to remove someone else in order for Duke to take the field.

Duke does have value as a backup RB, who gets about 50 carries/year, and a receiving/pass blocking RB. However, taking a more productive WR off the field in order to give him chances, is kinda crazy.

I'm not sure where people are missing the math here. There are only so many touches in a game. You divide those touches between the players you line up on the field. If you give any one player more touches, you're taking away touches from another player. Pretty simple really.

Thanks for gathering all the RELEVANT, PERTINENT contract INFO that actually is pertinent to the conversation ...

Appreciate it ....

Well, that's if it's accurate.....

In 2019, Johnson will earn a base salary of $1,800,000, a roster bonus of $400,000 and a workout bonus of $100,000, while carrying a cap hit of $3,050,000 and a dead cap value of $4,050,000.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/duke-johnson-16801/

His actual compensation package for this coming season is 2.3 million.

j/c:

Browns running back Duke Johnson Jr. can't find the field despite high-end efficiency

The Cleveland Browns are failing to utilize one of their deadliest weapons and as a result, the offense is not just leaving points off the scoreboard- they’re leaving ’em on the bench.

Duke Johnson Jr. has been in the top-10 among running backs in both elusive rating and yards per route run from the slot every single season he has been in the NFL. He has also led the Browns in receiving grade in two of his first three seasons. This season, Johnson is averaging 8.33 yards per touch, which ranks second among running backs with at least 30 touches in 2018.

Despite his proven efficiency, Johnson is on pace for just 88 touches this season. He ranks 58th among the 59 running backs with 30-plus touches in touches per game (5.5), just a few tenths of a touch ahead of the (not so) great Raiders running back, Doug Martin.

Meanwhile, Carlos Hyde is seeing 52 percent of the Browns’ offensive snaps, 70 percent of their rushing attempts and 1.5 targets per game.



The Browns’ team receiving grade of 56.9 ranks 31st among NFL teams, and they don’t have any receivers with a receiving grade of higher than 63.5. Yet, one of their most explosive pass-catching options is seeing career-low touches by a wide margin. Simply put, the Browns are making a huge mistake.

Some may argue that Johnson is better suited as a change-of-pace back who can’t handle a large workload and still be successful or healthy. However, Johnson has never needed many touches to make a large impact because he is so incredibly efficient with the touches he does get. He averaged just 9.75 touches per game last season, yet he made a huge impact for the Browns as their highest-graded receiver while also posting a 67.4 elusive rating, the seventh-highest mark among running backs with at least 50 carries.

Last season was arguably the best of Johnson’s career, as he earned a receiving grade of 89.4, which was good for fourth among running backs and 10th among all offensive players. Johnson’s 2.05 yards per route run was sixth-best among qualifying running backs, and his 2.47 yards per route run from the slot also ranked sixth.

Johnson earned a 78.2 overall grade, which was tied for the seventh-best mark among all running backs with at least 75 carries. His success in 2017 was enough to earn a contract from new general manager John Dorsey for an average of $5.2 million annually, which has him currently slotted as the 11th highest-paid running back in the NFL.

Johnson’s remarkable efficiency and ability to create yards through his elusiveness in the open field were not just a one-year-fluke, either. 2016 was statistically the worst season of Johnson’s young career, but the dual-threat back still averaged 1.26 yards per route run from the slot and 1.86 yards per route run in total, both marks ranking in the top-10 among qualifying running backs. He also averaged 4.9 yards per attempt as a runner and amassed 514 receiving yards as a receiver. More impressively, he generated a 72.5 elusive rating on top of a 34.6 breakaway percentage, which ranked sixth and 15th, respectively.

Going back to Johnson’s impressive rookie season (2015), he finished with a receiving grade of 83.5 and ranked inside the top-10 in both slot yards per route run (2.94) and elusive rating (53.8) among qualifying running backs. His 72.0 overall grade was the 12th-best mark for running backs with at least 100 rushing attempts.

It’s no secret that Browns receivers have struggled this season. Mayfield has the highest percentage of dropped passes in the league, as his top-four receiving options have already dropped 15 passes on the season and have been faulted six interceptions. Rashard Higgins going down gives the coaching staff no excuse not to incorporate Johnson into the offense more going forward. There is a clear need for receiving ability on the field, yet Johnson is on pace for just 26 routes from the slot on the season, whereas he ran 66 last year.

Johnson should push for more carries, as well, and there is a myriad of metrics to support that. Hyde has done the best he can, but he has been a very inefficient player this season for the Browns. Hyde’s 14.4 breakaway percentage ranks 52nd among 58 running backs, his 33.7 elusive rating ranks 43rd and his 2.38 average yards after contact is 50th of 69 qualifying running backs. By comparison, Johnson has a breakaway percentage of 34.2 (18th), a 137.8 elusive rating (2nd) and 5.05 average yards after contact (2nd). Johnson makes more of the touches that he is given and is clearly the better receiver of the two backs, yet Hyde still runs an average of 14 routes per game.

The gross misuse of Johnson by the Browns this season is inexcusable. At his best, Johnson is one of the most efficient and elusive dual-threat options in the game. He put up a career year last season and was rewarded with a contract that paid him like one of the top-10 backs in the NFL. Oddly enough, his touches have been cut in half as a result.

The constant dropped passes, lack of quality receiving options and mountains of data all suggest that it’s time to give Johnson more touches; it’s time for the Browns to truly unleash one of their deadliest offensive weapons.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pr...-end-efficiency

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Duke Johnson Jr. is one of the most efficient backs in football, and he’s finally getting the ball

Under the helm of Hue Jackson and Todd Haley in Weeks 1-8, fourth-year running back Duke Johnson Jr. was an afterthought in a Cleveland Browns offense that was desperate for playmakers. He averaged just 5.25 touches per game through the first eight weeks of the season, ranking outside the top-60 NFL running backs.

New leadership, however, took a different approach to Johnson’s involvement in the game plan in Week 9, leading to season-highs for the former Miami (Fla.) product across the board.

Dissatisfied with his offensive-minded coaches, Jackson and Haley, Browns general manager John Dorsey fired the duo following the team’s blowout loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers in Week 8 and promoted running backs coach Freddie Kitchens to offensive coordinator. Kitchens moved quickly in getting Johnson the football in his first game pulling strings.

After averaging 3.5 targets per game in Weeks 1-8, Johnson caught all nine of his targets – a week-high among running backs – for 78 yards, four first downs and two touchdowns. Two of his receptions went for 15-plus yards, and he totaled 33 of his 78 receiving yards (42.3%) after contact. He also forced two missed tackles and picked up 14 yards after contact on his lone rushing attempt on the day.



Johnson’s two-touchdown, 86-yard performance was in a losing effort against the Kansas City Chiefs, but it’s a sign of brighter things to come for him and the Browns’ offense.

With his efficient outing in Week 9, Johnson now ranks first among all NFL running backs with 50-plus touches in percentage of touches resulting in a first down or touchdown (42.3%) and second in yards per touch (7.62). In terms of creating yards on his own, he ranks fourth among the same group of backs in yards after contact per touch (3.56) and T-12th in forced missed tackles per touch (0.23) – two impressive figures for a 5-foot-9, 210-pound back with limited touches.

Johnson’s 2018 campaign isn’t an outlier, either.

Among backs with 300-plus touches since the start of the 2015 season, Johnson ranks tied for first in forced missed tackles per touch (0.24), fourth in yards per touch (6.45) and third in percentage of touches resulting in a first down or touchdown (32.7%).

Additionally, Johnson leads all backs in total receptions of 15-plus yards with 48 dating back to his rookie season (2015), nine more than any other running back in that span. He also ranks second in yards per route run (1.75) among the 33 running backs with 600-plus receiving snaps from 2015-18, another testament to his receiving ability.

Dorsey signed Johnson to a three-year contract extension prior to the season because he understood his value. Jackson and Haley obviously didn’t; Kitchen seemingly does. With strong early returns from Johnson in Week 9, expect Cleveland to turn a one-week anomaly into a week-to-week norm in regards to his usage moving forward.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pr...etting-the-ball

Here's a crazy thought that I haven't seen floated, yet:


The trade deadline every year is Week 10.
Hunt comes back after Week 8.

We can keep Duke, keep Hunt (who doesn't use a roster spot during his suspension), and keep Chubb... then, we showcase Hunt in Week 9 and trade him to the highest bidder for premium picks in 2020. His suspension will be done and he'll be fresh; there will be at least one team looking for a premier RB by that point. His value will be high.

LOL, maybe we even trade him to Kansas City, getting a draft pick for a guy they released

...

Are u seriously going there ... bro .... sometimes your just better off keeping your mouth shut ... u know that i know that u know that i know that u know way more about football than for me to believe u honestly believe your above post ...

You tried to claim he was simply a RB. But he also lines up as a WR and he does have more receptions than carries. I don't make the news, I just report it.

Maybe we can take some pass attempts away from Landry to give them to Duke. Or maybe OBJ, Hollywood, Njoku or Calloway.

Or maybe we could just admit that Duke is actually a sixth option that really doesn't carry a lot of weight in this O.

I can’t believe some of u are being this obtuse ... WTF ...

Does Chubb take every snap at RB and get every touch for the first 8 weeks? .... do we no longer have a place on this team for a 3rd down/change of pace back, is that no longer a role on this team? Its been eliminated as a position until week 9 ...

How did this become an argument about “at whose expense” or there’s only so many balls to go around ... ya .. your right ... but guess what SUPERSEDES the above BS in this convo anyhow .... actual positions on the team and the fact NO TEAM gives one RB all the reps and/or touches ... so for now DUKE HAS A ROLE FOR AT LEAST 8 WEEKS ....

What is so hard to understand about that? .... no team plays just one running back .... NO TEAM ...

If he doesn’t have a role please tell me who is our 3rd down back or please tell me why u think we will no longer have one ....

U guys are beyond reaching ...

Great idea ... very logical and makes all the sense in the world ....

Its all ready been floated ... its part of my solution on this very thread on the previous page I believe .... *L* ...

Only flaw in our logic is that over the first 8 weeks of the year were giving Chubb all the RB reps and touches, when he comes out he will be replaced with a WR or TE ... at least thats what Pit’s selling ... ...

I'm glad Duke is the only other RB on the roster. But yeah, there are only so many balls thrown. So if you already have five better receiving options, you will be taking away that option from the other five when you throw Duke the ball.

I thought you were really good at that 1+1=2 thing?

Who is trading premium picks for a running back with one year on his contract?

Pitt, Players have to rest, different players play in different situations and sets, plus the better the offense does they will be on the field more and there will be more snaps to go around so Duke may not be taking snaps away from anyone. Do we not pull Chubb and put in Duke in most the obvious passing situations?

U got me ... i cant argue with that logic ... u win ... *L* ...

Later bro ... enjoy your weekend ...

We did it more when the WR unit was poor. Not as much last year. And actually we had the O on the field a lot more last year in the second half of the season. Since then we added OBJ. So we actually have more receiving targets than we did last year.

In 2017 Duke had 74 receptions. In 2018 he had 47 receptions. The lowest of his career. The trend is going down, not up. It seems the better our WR's are, the less Duke is producing in the passing game. And now we've added OBJ.

Only some positions figure to play 100% of snaps. On offense you'd expect that to be the offensive line and QB, and even that requires them to be healthy. Other guys rotate in and out... it turns out that running routes over and over is tiring.

Again, you also have to factor in injuries, players having off days, different game situations, giving the defense different looks, and so forth.

Is Duke Johnson a running back? is he a receiver? This is the wrong way to look at it. He's an offensive weapon and a unique one among the Browns skill position players.

One play he might line up behind another back in I-formation. Next play is shotgun with split backs... but we motion him out and snap before he's set (easy man beater, good luck if a linebacker is trying to cover him). Or maybe we run a screen for him. Then we go hurry up but it's a single back set with Duke lined up in the slot.

Now he's a receiver and you hit him for a slant over the middle. Or give him a carry on a Jet Sweep. Or fake the Jet Sweep and run Chubb to the opposite side. The possibilities are endless. Do this in a hurry up offense where the defense can't sub in players and give defensive coordinators fits.

Those are fine scenarios to bring up, but the stats show his production and usage decreased dramatically from 2017 to 2018. I know all of the "what if's" sound great. But that's simply not the way things have panned out.

Past coaching staffs have obviously misused and underused Duke. I'm suggesting a better way-- more like how McDaniels and the Hoodie use their dual-threat backs up in New England, and less like how past coaching staffs have used Duke here.

I also thought Freddie was put in an unenviable situation mid-season as its always hard to install new concepts in the middle of the season. I hope with a full offseason of work, Duke will be better integrated into the offense. There are plenty of touches and plenty of yards to go around. The most potent offenses are getting close to 7,000 yards a year in total offense.

I think we should break that mark. Call it 5,000 yards passing and 2,000 yards on the ground. Divvy it up however you want.

edit: 7,000 yards is optimistic and somewhat tongue-in-cheek. That said, the Chiefs had 6,810 yards in total offense last year and 8 teams were above 6,000. The 9th ranked team in total yards, Baltimore, had 5,999. There are plenty of yards to go around.

In 2018, he produced the same on average in both carries and rec yards as he always has even though targets and carries went down. Again, his efficiency as a player is exceptional and he deserves to be on the field more as he has shown to be a mismatch and a weapon. I don't care to see him lined up on the outside, but in the back field and in the slot is where he is most dangerous. I don't care where he falls in line with #6 receiver option...that's irrelevant. He is one of the best options we have in those two places and should be utilized there more.

Those are not "what-ifs".

j/c:

I get that this thread has reached a point where people are taking sides and trying to win an argument, but we probably should not quote articles that state dumb-ass things like what Duke did when Hue and Haley were running the offense last year. The offense was all Haley's.

Haley really underutilized Duke. Freddie used him more at first, but hat tailed off.

The only coach that ever used Duke a lot was Hue when he was the in charge of the offense the previous two years.

Let's try and keep things real while trying to win the argument and not post articles that are misinformed.

I'll end by saying that I am really surprised how radical the thoughts are on in this situation. I see good points for both sides. I can't believe anyone really believes this is so black and white.

Y'all argue a lot.

Duke Johnson should have a role as long as Hunt is out. After that it’s anyones guess as to how the touches will be distributed (especially considering injuries).

My guess as to the reason why Johnson hasn’t been traded yet? His value to the team is greater than the value of the draft choices we’ve been offered for him. If we got the right pick offered to us then my guess is that’s he’d be moved quickly.

His usage went down. That's a fact. That means his role with Freddie as HC is very little. Unless you don't feel Freddie is capable of throwing together a few basic plays for Duke when he took over. Which seems to be a common theme on this board.

Agreed. I think, had we been offered a 4th round pick for Duke during the draft, he would have been traded. Just speculation on my part, of course.

There's nothing wrong with having 3 capable backs on your team... you're always going to have at least 3 backs active on game day so not sure why this is such a big deal, especially with Hunt being suspended half a year.

His role probably was reduced, rightfully, because Nick Chubb was a revelation. Not because he isn’t useful. Nick Chubb is a total beast.

And we've always managed to sign someone to start ahead of Duke. That's why I'm not so sure the assumption that Duke would step in if Chubb were injured is correct.