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#1656440 - 09/02/19 12:13 PM A look at the roster
WSU Willie Offline

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As of right now...we have:

QB - 3
RB - 3
TE - 4
WR - 6
C - 2
G - 4
T - 3
(The official site shows only Tretter at C...I've moved Corbett there.)

DE - 4
DT - 4
LB - 7
CB - 5
S - 5
(Avery is listed as a LB and I left him there.)

ST - 3

#s are split evenly with 25 each on O & D.

QB

I'm not surprised at all here. This writing has been on the wall for a long time.

RB

I'm a little nervous here. Obviously Chubb is a stud. I like the other two guys enough...but I'd like another vet here just in case...and likely at the expense of the #s at TE. I hope these (3) guys can pass block enough to slow down the inside push that I think our RG is going to give up.

TE

I'm surprised that we have (4) TEs and not one of them appear to have played much in that FB/HB hybrid role. If we melded the (4) guys together, I feel like we'd have (1.75) TE's to work with. This looks like a crazy-weak group.

WR

Who would have thought that this group would play out like it did? Not only did we not trade any of the "wealth of talent" we thought we had there...we actually traded to bring in (2) new guys. Crazy. No one has picked up Strong...or Miller...or tried to get Willies.

OL

You need a flowchart and a road map to keep up with what has transpired here in the last few days. The starting lineup didn't change (or hasn't yet) from late TC. I think Teller will supplant Kush in short order. The depth appears to have gotten better. I'm concerned that the RG spot looks like it is being filled by default and not by legit talent. I'm surprised Corbett made it through. If Kush loses out the starting RG spot, I think he'll be released if they really think Corbett could play C THIS YEAR if need be. Scary.

DE

I'm not surprised here at all. Especially since I think Avery really makes this a (5) man unit. I'm disappointed that Zettel had to be cut...but it's a numbers game. It's interesting how many of these guys are talked about as being able to move inside on obvious passing downs. (Smith, Garrett, Thomas...that's 3 of 5.)

DT

I'm pleasantly surprised here from what were my thoughts when we were trying to sign Gerald McCoy...but we've been hearing good things about Lawrence and Ekuale for some time now. That...and they were both here last year.

LB

The real number in my mind is (6) guys. I'm stymied by the former Bengal pickup as he looks like another ST-only guy. I'd just as soon have kept Harvey if (6) has to be the #. I'm anxious to see Sho with real DT's in front of him. I think this is Kirksey's last year to play the Kenard Lang cheerleader / Joe Haden mouth roles. Wake me up when that guy has an impactful game.

CB

No surprises here either. Gaines going to IR sort of made this group a little more clear. I'm a little nervous about T Thomas being CB5...but we have some S's that are hybrid-enough to keep him as the ST demon that he is. Those first (4) guys are pretty darn good - Ward, Mitchell, Williams, Carrie.

S

It feels like we have (9) guys here...with none really standing out at SS. Whitehead started out on fire and then got dinged. I still think Burnett has been about as noticeable as a blade of grass in a field. As with the TE's - but not seeming to be as weak - we have a lot of bodies here but I'm worried what we would have even if we melded some of these guys into one.

STs

The angst with the (2) Rookies is well-known. I'd like to see Gillan handle kickoffs so we'd have another gunner. (Joking...maybe.)

We have a promising and much-improved roster (understatement alert). But it is far from complete. I think the TE question is glaring and I hope we find another guy to compete. The S spot has a lot of guys with promise who we need to have someone standout. The OL question goes beyond RG...but that's such a glaring spot that we kind of overlook the others outside of LG & C. I guess my biggest worry right now is at TE...which is kind of laughable given the stae of our team for about 18 of the last 20 years.

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#1656442 - 09/02/19 12:17 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: WSU Willie]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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To me, the TE position is a glaring weakness ... we donít have the depth or the blocking that you look for at the position.

Of course, the starting OL is not ideal either ... but at least the recent moves have improved the depth
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"First down as we threaten again. A score here puts us in the Super Bowl. Odell is far to the left as Landry settles into the slot. Njoku is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1656446 - 09/02/19 12:22 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: WSU Willie]
CalDawg Offline

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#1656447 - 09/02/19 12:26 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: WSU Willie]
PDXBrownsFan Offline
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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie

TE

I'm surprised that we have (4) TEs and not one of them appear to have played much in that FB/HB hybrid role.



The new TE we just signed looks to potentially be brought in for that very reason (FB/blocking TE).

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#1656451 - 09/02/19 12:33 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: PDXBrownsFan]
WSU Willie Offline

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Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie

TE

I'm surprised that we have (4) TEs and not one of them appear to have played much in that FB/HB hybrid role.



The new TE we just signed looks to potentially be brought in for that very reason (FB/blocking TE).


I hope you are correct. I feel like I'm reading conflicting reports on the whole blocking thing - maybe run v pass?

I shouldn't be "that guy"...but I'm leery about picking up anyone who was released by the Cards. I know we cut decent players on occasion while we were essentially the Cards...I hope he can be a guy for us.

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#1656453 - 09/02/19 12:39 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: PDXBrownsFan]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie

TE

I'm surprised that we have (4) TEs and not one of them appear to have played much in that FB/HB hybrid role.



The new TE we just signed looks to potentially be brought in for that very reason (FB/blocking TE).


My guess is that we will be running a lot less two and three tight end sets than we did last year because our personnel at wide receiver is so much better. Njoku will get the bulk of the playing time and then whoever the second tight end is will play about 30% of the time.

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#1656469 - 09/02/19 01:36 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: WSU Willie]
FL_Dawg Offline

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Good post/breakdown thumbsup
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#1656479 - 09/02/19 02:00 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: cfrs15]
WSU Willie Offline

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie

TE

I'm surprised that we have (4) TEs and not one of them appear to have played much in that FB/HB hybrid role.



The new TE we just signed looks to potentially be brought in for that very reason (FB/blocking TE).


My guess is that we will be running a lot less two and three tight end sets than we did last year because our personnel at wide receiver is so much better. Njoku will get the bulk of the playing time and then whoever the second tight end is will play about 30% of the time.


That's an interesting take. I recollect that Freddie went to a lot of 2-TE sets last year to protect Baker...but we didn't have OBJ then... and Higgins' arrival was a little uncertain/unknown...and Callaway had been out of football...and Perriman's value was still suspect...and the schemes were being adjusted. I need to digest that a little more...but that could be spot on and would make me feel much better. Although (4) TEs on the 53 would be odd for such an allocation of plays/alignments.

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#1656515 - 09/02/19 03:00 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: WSU Willie]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Last year we loved multiple TEs at once (I think we were close to the top of the NFL in this regard) ... I can see that having better WRs would change this stat, but I still think they like to have the extra pass pro for Baker
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"First down as we threaten again. A score here puts us in the Super Bowl. Odell is far to the left as Landry settles into the slot. Njoku is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1656531 - 09/02/19 04:09 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Dawgs4Life]
guard dawg Offline

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Pure speculation on my part but could the 4th TE be where the cut comes from when Callaway returns from suspension?
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#1656533 - 09/02/19 04:18 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: guard dawg]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Yeah that could be the case .. or one of the OL (seems like we have 1-2 more than usual) or maybe even Stanton
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"First down as we threaten again. A score here puts us in the Super Bowl. Odell is far to the left as Landry settles into the slot. Njoku is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1656540 - 09/02/19 04:35 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: WSU Willie]
Spiritbro77 Offline

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I agree for the first 8 games our RB room is thin behind Chubb. The last half of the season though... we have the best RB room in the division and one of the best in the entire league. I just hope we use them. We were massively pass-happy during the preseason. To win in our division running the ball is still essential. We have a really good run/pass balance last season once Kitchens took over. I hope we play that way again this year.
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#1656541 - 09/02/19 04:42 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Dawgs4Life]
WSU Willie Offline

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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Yeah that could be the case .. or one of the OL (seems like we have 1-2 more than usual) or maybe even Stanton


What if we cut Stanton after the first game when/if his salary is fully guaranteed...then he "retires" and becomes a coach?

He gets one more big payday (over a coach's salary anyway)...and stays with the team in case we need him. Frees up a roster spot and we still have him.

FWIW, I didn't verify anything with his salary as to whether it would/could be guaranteed after week 1.

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#1656543 - 09/02/19 04:49 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: WSU Willie]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Lol good idea and thinking outside the box ... just what our FO is all about now too smile
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"First down as we threaten again. A score here puts us in the Super Bowl. Odell is far to the left as Landry settles into the slot. Njoku is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1656554 - 09/02/19 05:32 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Spiritbro77]
tru_dawgs Offline

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Originally Posted By: Spiritbro77
I agree for the first 8 games our RB room is thin behind Chubb. The last half of the season though... we have the best RB room in the division and one of the best in the entire league. I just hope we use them. We were massively pass-happy during the preseason. To win in our division running the ball is still essential. We have a really good run/pass balance last season once Kitchens took over. I hope we play that way again this year.


Good post

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#1656555 - 09/02/19 05:37 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: WSU Willie]
SuperBrown Offline

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Bad news:

Our TE position is no different than last year. Same guys , different names. Need an upgrade here for sure. Njoku is a young star though, but not much of a blocker.

RG could be a disaster. We have lots of depth here, but no one is legit.

Good news:

Baker is back and we have the Chubb!
We have the Vice Grips and The Odell!

The D looks very promising.

This is the most I have been excited about a season since 1995 and we know how that went.

AFC North Champions or bust!

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#1656572 - 09/02/19 06:29 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Spiritbro77]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: Spiritbro77
To win in our division running the ball is still essential. We have a really good run/pass balance last season once Kitchens took over. I hope we play that way again this year.


Last year under Kitchens we passed 59% of the time.

In 2019 establishing the run is no longer necessary, if anything it's a waste of time.

If you have a subscription to The Athletic the below article is worth reading:

https://theathletic.com/980870/2019/07/2...nt-dead-either/

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#1656596 - 09/02/19 08:40 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: WSU Willie]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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running is very important, but it is no longer what the game is revolved around ... itís a secondary facet of an offense; almost a bi-product of a good passing game.
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"First down as we threaten again. A score here puts us in the Super Bowl. Odell is far to the left as Landry settles into the slot. Njoku is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1656600 - 09/02/19 08:52 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Dawgs4Life]
Versatile Dog Offline

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j/c:

Not sure if our last couple of posters watched last year's NFL playoffs and how New England ran it down the throats of teams like the Chargers.

Also, a quick search shows the that of the top 10 rushing teams in the league, 8 made the playoffs. Six of the top 10 passing teams made the playoffs.

Tampa Bay was the league's top passing team. The Steelers were second. Atlanta was fourth. Thus, 3 of the 4 top passing attacks missed the playoffs.

I do think it is a passing league, but people make generalizations that are not all that factual.

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#1656608 - 09/02/19 09:15 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Versatile Dog]
cfrs15 Offline

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I probably went too far in saying that running the ball is a "waste of time".

Running the ball is the a nice thing to be able to do but if you had to choose what you'd rather be great at it'd be passing and it's not close.

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#1656611 - 09/02/19 09:23 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: cfrs15]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Yes, you went too far and that is why I commented.

I did say that it was a passing league. However, I think that teams can both pass and run effectively have a huge advantage. Both of the Super Bowl participants--the Rams and Pats--were in the top 5 of both categories. The Saints were in the top 12 in both categories. The Chiefs probably could have been in the top in both categories, but they lost Hunt.

I think folks might want to think about what New England does. The Chargers dominated Baltimore w/6 DBs all game and the next week New England loaded up w/extra TEs and O-linemen and ran it right down the Charger's throats.

That's coaching.

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#1656642 - 09/02/19 10:30 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Versatile Dog]
Jester Offline

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One things that skews the stats is the running out the clock. Of course the best teams are going to rush the ball more often. When they are leading late in the game they run the ball to run out the clock.

Heard a stat about the Cowboys and Zeke Elliott. Something along the lines of they wer "some-teen and 1" (I don't remember the exact number) when he rushes the ball 23 or more times a game.

Let's say he runs the ball 10x and they pass the ball 30x in the 1st 3.5 quarters and they are up 24-10 then he runs the ball 13 times in the final 6 minutes to run out the clock.

Did the Cowboys win because he ran the bal 23 times or did he run the ball 23 times because they were winning?
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#1656647 - 09/02/19 10:32 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Jester]
Versatile Dog Offline

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I get what you are saying, but my claim makes way more sense than cfrs' claim did and you did not question him.

This board is so lame....

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#1656653 - 09/02/19 11:06 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Versatile Dog]
Jester Offline

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I wasn't questioning either of you. I was just pointing out that these stats are not simple to interpret.

Sometimes teams run the heck out of the ball and it results in a winning record. Other teams pass the heck out of the ball and have a winning record.

If you go into the last half of the 4th quarter with a decent lead then you are going to pad your stats in regards to number of runs

If you go into the last half of the 4th quarter with a significant lead and you try to run the ball to salt away the lead but can't run it successfully, then that lead is going to evaporate.

Sorry, I didn't think all that needed to be spelled out
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#1656687 - 09/03/19 07:16 AM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Jester]
PitDAWG Offline

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By contrast if you're behind late in a game your stats get padded in passing attempts. It's a two way street.
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#1656689 - 09/03/19 07:20 AM Re: A look at the roster [Re: PitDAWG]
Jester Offline

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Exactly my point.
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#1656693 - 09/03/19 07:40 AM Re: A look at the roster [Re: WSU Willie]
eotab Offline

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Just a note you expressed a desire to have Willies WR and Harvey LB...I was happy to see both on our Practice Squad!


TE well we won't be using more than two at a time.

Pharaoh Brown: 6'6" 258 and in 2nd season. I thought showed the most in Preseason.

Demetrius Harris: 6'7" 230 6th season, well lets hope he was holding back in preseason games.

David Njoku: 6'4" 246 3rd season, I think is a stud and will own the middle if teams over play OBJ! He actually got better at blocking from what I saw but we are talking better than his AWFUL Status.

Ricky Seals Jones: 6'5" 243 3rd season, here is our H-Back as he has experience lining up in the backfield. Coming out of HS was the #2 Prospect in the country. Hopefully a chip on his shoulder and will be nasty in blocking. Oh he graded pretty high in Pass Blocking wink He was a waiver wire pick up by Dorsey!

No idea how we value Gathers...who goes? if not Gathers.Hope it would be Harris and not Brown.

jmho
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#1656706 - 09/03/19 08:49 AM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Jester]
Versatile Dog Offline

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I agree w/all that and even said so. However, a good running game is still important in the NFL and it is not "a waste of time." I didn't think I would have to spell it out again.

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#1656709 - 09/03/19 09:18 AM Re: A look at the roster [Re: WSU Willie]
Damanshot Offline

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Lots of second guessing on this thread.. Truth be told, this roster isn't set yet so I would guess (see what I did there) that more changes are afoot! smile
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#1656712 - 09/03/19 09:24 AM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Versatile Dog]
Jester Offline

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I never said that I thought the running game was a waste of time.
I actually think that with the way defenses are going small to defend the pass that a smart play is to develop a good power run game. Modern defenses are not designed to stop it.


I could be crazy though, I also think that we should sign a guy like Karl Anthony Towns for Wr. Put a 7 footer out there, tell him to run 10 yards and turn around. Toss him a jump ball. Unstoppable in the red zone or on 4th and 5.
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#1656714 - 09/03/19 09:34 AM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Jester]
Versatile Dog Offline

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I know. We are not communicating well. My initial post was directed towards a couple of posters who said the running game was a waste of time. I disagreed. That's all.

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#1656753 - 09/03/19 12:26 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: WSU Willie]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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J/C

With the recent news of Pouncey re-signing with the Chargers for one more year and $9 million .... it might make sense to try and re-sign Tretter right now. Heís going to be the most sought after C on the market, and if we donít think Corbett is going to pan out we wonít have much leverage at the end of the year.

If we can get him at around $10 million per season it might be wise
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"First down as we threaten again. A score here puts us in the Super Bowl. Odell is far to the left as Landry settles into the slot. Njoku is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1656901 - 09/03/19 10:00 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: WSU Willie]
THROW LONG Offline

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Placing Drew Forbes on IR ensures he won't be picked up by another team for the 2019 season, and secures this without using a roster spot; however it also ensures he won't be available for the Browns for the next several weeks, odds are, the entire season. (Maybe his injury was season ending, making this point moot, but it wasn't widely mentioned WHat the severity of Forbes injury was.


I did spend a large part of this past day mulling over if they don't have Trevon Coley, who is going to hold the line vs the bull rush.

Ted Washington, then Phil Taylor, then Danny Shelton, then Trevon Coley,

( The strong force in the middle all the others gather around, If not there, you run the risk of getting your D-line shoved around all day).



Edited by THROW LONG (09/03/19 10:01 PM)
Edit Reason: D-line, not D-ling, hazardous misspelling

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#1656903 - 09/03/19 10:02 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: THROW LONG]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Quote:
I did spend a large part of this past day mulling over if they don't have Trevon Coley, who is going to hold the line vs the bull rush.


Will someone explain to Throw what a "bull rush" is?

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#1656905 - 09/03/19 10:05 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Versatile Dog]
lampdogg Offline

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I'm not a football expert, but I know a bull rush isn't often done by an OL guy.
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#1656906 - 09/03/19 10:08 PM Re: A look at the roster [Re: THROW LONG]
YTownBrownsFan Offline

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The Browns must really like Forbes, and feel that he will be able to return this season, or else they wouldn't have gone through the gyrations of cutting Robinson in order to create a "53" spot for Forbes, so he would be eligible to return this season.
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#1657393 - 09/05/19 08:36 AM Re: A look at the roster [Re: YTownBrownsFan]
MemphisBrownie Offline

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j/c:

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#1657397 - 09/05/19 08:50 AM Re: A look at the roster [Re: MemphisBrownie]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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That canít be accurate, can it?
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"First down as we threaten again. A score here puts us in the Super Bowl. Odell is far to the left as Landry settles into the slot. Njoku is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1657420 - 09/05/19 10:47 AM Re: A look at the roster [Re: Dawgs4Life]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
That canít be accurate, can it?


It can. We rolled over a ton of money in the past.

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#1657421 - 09/05/19 10:53 AM Re: A look at the roster [Re: cfrs15]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Maybe I mis-read it, but I thought it said we have SPENT the most on our 53 lol
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
That canít be accurate, can it?


It can. We rolled over a ton of money in the past.
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"First down as we threaten again. A score here puts us in the Super Bowl. Odell is far to the left as Landry settles into the slot. Njoku is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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