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Perfect example - using my wife's account.


10-18-19 - low was 161,000.

Jan. 2019 154,000. Sep. 2019 - 191,000. Today, 187,000.


The market changes. It really does. If you look day to day, you may get depressed.

6 years ago it was 99,000.

99,000 to todays 187,000?

You think I'm going to panic over losing a few thousand this week, based on fickle markets?

Nah. Long term, things are fine

I'm not a day trader, nor a weekly trader.

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Swish Offline OP
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bro you sound just like them dudes did back in 07-08.


jan 02, 2018, when trump's tax law was in effect, the dow's high was 24864.19 that day.

as of right now, the dow is at 26201.04. long term? thats pathetic growth. its an absolute fact the market gained more under obama than trump. trump even dumped a stimulus into an already hot economy....and we're flat.

you keep talking about long term as if no one else on this board thinks long term. its mind blowing. this global economic slowdown is not only long term, its already happening. more and more business are very vocal about how much damage the trade war is starting to do to businesses. its undeniable. the manufacturing index has spoken, its contracting. more and more small farms are going belly up.

trump is not the cause of the global slowdown, but he DOES control how painful it can be for this country. we have a fed cutting rates, even though we keep being told this economy is great under trump and his tax plan.

Arch...nobody begs on twitter or in congress for fed rate cuts if everything is all good. its clearly not.

if you refuse to acknowledge that a slowdown is happening and trump is not helping matters whatsoever, then hey, you conservatives will once again prove you learn absolutely nothing from history. and even discussing economics with you is a waste of time at that point.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
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I see you want to make it about politics. I choose not to.


You state:
Quote:
jan 02, 2018, when trump's tax law was in effect, the dow's high was 24864.19 that day.

as of right now, the dow is at 26201.04. long term? thats pathetic growth. its an absolute fact the market gained more under obama than trump. trump even dumped a stimulus into an already hot economy....and we're flat.
You're talking short term.

Look at stocks long term. I don't care who was president when. I thought you were smarter than this.

The market goes up, and it goes down. It's just how it's always been. Same with global temps.

Long term swish. Not year and a half term. Long term.

I know you hate trump and will do or say anything to denigrate him.

Long term. My long term includes trump, Obama, bush, etc. But, oh well........you do as you see fit.

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Swish Offline OP
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again, long term.

global slowdown already on its way. and recessions come in cycles, and we're overdue for one.

dont be this dense.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Bro, we don't live in the same reality. In the alt-right reality, the Andy Griffith Show still has new episodes on Friday night. And apparently the GOP never crashed their economy...


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Originally Posted By: Swish
again, long term.

global slowdown already on its way. and recessions come in cycles, and we're overdue for one.

dont be this dense.


I'm glad you admitted that. I agree, other than your last statement. Trust me bud, I'm not dense. Sorry you feel I am. Says more bout you than me.

But, I get it. I'm white. I'm conservative. I'm Christian, I'm a 'republican'............so, I know you need to hate me.

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Originally Posted By: archbolddawg


But, I get it. I'm white. I'm conservative. I'm Christian, I'm a 'republican'............so, I know you need to hate me.


lol what the hell was this?


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
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smh


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There’s a theory that stingy millennials are to blame for the sluggish economy

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/06/millenni...mes-report.html

Millennials — the selfie obsessed, avocado toast-loving generation — might be behind slower economic growth, according to a research note last week from Raymond James. This new generation, scarred by the financial crisis, is saving more than the free-spending boomers did before them, and it’s causing an economic imbalance.

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According to data from the St. Louis Federal Reserve, the current U.S. personal savings rate, defined as income minus spending, is 8.1% as of August. By comparison, in 1996 the rate was 5.7%.




“The higher savings rate, we believe, has had disinflationary impact, driving the relatively slow growth and low inflation in this recovery ... causing the incentives for excess supply, and disinflation/deflation biases in the global economy,” Raymond James analyst Tavis McCourt wrote in a note to clients Thursday.

One of the earliest financial lessons people learn is that saving early and often is key.

However, while saving is beneficial for individuals, a slowdown in spending hurts businesses and therefore the economy. Since the recession “supply increases have continued,” which coupled with a higher savings rate has led to “excess supply seemingly everywhere in the economy,” McCourt notes.

“This leads to frustratingly low growth, deflationary biases in prices, excess supply, and increasing debt from the supply side attempts to improve the situation because the savings rate is going higher,” he said.

McCourt chalks up the increase in savings to a “generational change.” Following the financial crisis, millennials began to save more, and this habit is becoming increasingly important as they replace “baby boomers as the primary income and spending generators.”

“The U.S. consumer has had enough, so they are saving instead of purchasing like last generation, limiting demand growth,” he said.

And it’s not only a problem in the United States. China also has a relatively high personal savings rate which hurts the global outlook given the size of the country’s economy and its rapid rate of growth.

“So, what we have is a global increase in personal savings rate, which has caused excessive supply increases globally [disproportionally in China], and U.S. consumers wanting to save more [to be less insane than the last decade], which makes trade deficits less severe than they would be otherwise, growth to be slower than expected for both economies, and inflation to be lower than what it would be otherwise,” McCourt explained.

While the U.S. personal savings rate might be rising, the national savings rate as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product was around 18% as of 2016, according to data compiled by the IMF. By comparison, Great Britain’s rate was around 13%, while Japan and China’s were 27%, and 46%, respectively.

_______

I can see it now. People gonna blame us millennials for a recession cause we don’t spend enough, and instead are more conservative with our money.

Can’t wait to get blamed for being financially responsible, instead of reckless spending like gen x and boomers.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
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You need to have a job in order to spend. tongue


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We got jobs but nobody wants to buy jewelry made out of recycled plastic from a vegan named Star


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: Swish
We got jobs but nobody wants to buy jewelry made out of recycled plastic from a vegan named Star


And I thought you wanted to save the planet.


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Here's the funny part about that. All your young life you are taught to save for your future. That spending every dime you make is not the way to live your life.

Until of course they can use what you're doing to blame you for a problem. Then suddenly being smart and planning for the future is a bad thing.

The economy is slowing down. And some are willing to blame everyone but Trump for it.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Manufacturing is now officially in recession, despite Trump’s vow to boost industry

WASHINGTON — During President Trump’s first two years in office, his standing with many voters was buoyed by a surge in manufacturing that helped create millions of new jobs and undergirded the whole U.S. economy.
But today, manufacturing has plunged into recession and is threatening to pull down other sectors, perhaps hitting hardest on supporters in those states that helped put Trump in office.

Impeachment may be dominating the news, but the less-noticed industrial slump ultimately could pose a greater threat to Trump’s reelection.

As measured by the Federal Reserve, manufacturing output shrank over two straight quarters this year. That’s the common definition of recession.

A separate, widely followed index drawn from purchasing managers showed September’s contraction in manufacturing was the steepest since June 2009, with production, inventories and new orders all falling.

And after adding nearly half a million jobs in the prior two years, which Trump frequently stressed in hard-hat rallies throughout the Midwest, manufacturing employment has stalled.

Instead of healthy job growth, layoff announcements have spiked this year, especially in battleground states like Pennsylvania and Michigan. Friday’s jobs report for September showed a slight drop in total factory jobs.

Manufacturing today accounts for only about 10% of economic activity, and so far, the overall economy and employment in the U.S. are still growing. But the pace has slowed considerably this year. The faltering industrial sector has started to crimp businesses in the transportation and warehousing sectors. And there are growing worries of spillover effects in the larger services sector and broader economy.

Even if the nation can avoid a recession next year, a manufacturing downturn could prove to be politically damaging for Trump, who rode to the White House on enthusiastic support from blue-collar workers in key states and on his promise to revive America’s coal, steel and other industries.

Although manufacturing comprises a far smaller portion of the whole U.S. economy than it once did, it remains very important in a handful of swing states that Trump narrowly won in 2016 — including Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

In the months before the 2016 election, it didn’t help Hillary Clinton’s prospects that manufacturing was on the skids and factory jobs were shrinking, thanks to a drop-off in energy-related investments, a strong dollar and lackluster demand for American goods in emerging economies.

Some of those same factors are again weighing against American industry. But analysts and business leaders say the single biggest restraint on manufacturing this year has been of Trump’s own making: excessive use of tariffs and his trade wars with China and other countries.

Of utmost concern has been Trump’s confrontation with China, the world’s second-largest economy. Many American firms have major operations there — both manufacturing, such as smartphones, and sales, such as motor vehicles. And U.S. companies rely on China for a big chunk of their sales and profits.

U.S. businesses have put off spending on major equipment and buildings as they’ve sought to look through the fog of a swirling trade conflict marked by Trump’s haphazard tariff actions and off-and-on negotiations.

China and the U.S. are scheduled to resume high-level talks Thursday and Friday in Washington, but expectations for a breakthrough are low, and Trump is loading up more tariffs to take effect next week. Already multiple rounds of tit-for-tat tariffs have been costly for many domestic manufacturers.

Jim Springer, chief financial officer of Industrial Nut Corp. in Sandusky, Ohio, doesn’t need the Fed and a bunch of economists to tell him that manufacturing is in recession. He can see it in his 111-year-old family business making locknuts and other fasteners.

Springer, 58, who runs the company with his father and three brothers, remembers when orders took off at the end of 2016. Sales surged 30% in 2017 and went up another 14% last year, to just shy of its record-high sales of $20.25 million in 2006.

It’s been downhill since the first quarter, however, as the company’s largest customers, such as Caterpillar Inc., the big manufacturer of tractors and construction trucks, started to scale back. Sales at Industrial Nut are expected to fall about 10% this year, and Springer says tariffs are a big culprit. They’ve hurt the company both by making raw materials more expensive and by slowing sales in China for companies like Caterpillar, and those effects have trickled down to parts suppliers like Industrial Nut.

“The magnitude of the loss we’re seeing from tariffs far outweighs the benefits of the tax cuts,” Springer said, referring to the GOP-led move to shave the U.S. corporate tax rate to 21% from 35% starting in 2018.

“That was pro-business, and it was nice,” he added, but “the tariffs are just too blunt of an instrument.”

Like manufacturers across the country, Industrial Nut has recently begun to reduce overtime hours for workers, and Springer says the company is managing labor costs also through attrition and retirement of its aging workforce.

Sandusky County, some 60 miles west of Cleveland along Lake Erie, has a population of about 59,000. Manufacturing accounts for roughly 40% of the county’s private employment and has been shedding jobs since the middle of last year. In 2016, Trump won the county with 58% of the vote, even though it went to Obama in both 2012 and 2008.

“Our shop floor is divided,” Springer said of the company’s 40 hourly employees, who are represented by the United Steelworkers. “Some people love him, the ‘fake news’ things ... and there are those who don’t trust him.”

He added, “It’ll be very difficult [for him] to get reelected in a recession. Then again, the alternatives aren’t very appealing from a pro-business perspective.”

Most analysts see U.S.-China tensions remaining high in coming months. And that likely means little relief on tariffs and continued uncertainty for businesses, which will keep manufacturing limping along.

Michael Hicks, a regional economist at Ball State University in Muncie, Ind., said there was a greater than 50% chance of a national recession in the next 12 months. Indiana has the country’s largest concentration of manufacturing, accounting for some 22% of the state’s economy — about double the U.S. average.

Trends in recreational vehicles, made in northern Indiana, have been a good indicator of recent recessions, and shipments are down about 20% this year, Hicks said. By year’s end, he predicted, it won’t be just Indiana’s manufacturing jobs that will be down from a year ago but employment overall for the state.

“Indiana has never had a year where employment dropped for the year and the U.S. was not in recession,” he said.

Trump isn’t likely to lose Indiana in 2020; it has voted for a Democratic presidential candidate only five times since 1900, most recently in 2008, when Barack Obama narrowly beat Mitt Romney.

But industrial activity in Indiana is deeply intertwined with manufacturing in nearby states that are not rock-solid Republican — especially Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin.

Wisconsin, which Trump took by a mere 22,748 votes in 2016, the narrowest of his vote margins in any state, is second to Indiana in its reliance on manufacturing.

Wisconsin has one of the state’s lowest jobless rates in the country, just 3.1% in August. Manufacturing payrolls, however, have been mostly declining since September and are down for the year, as the trade war and other forces have hurt manufacturers in industrial machinery, metal fabrication, paper products and food processing.

“Tariffs are one of the reasons that our production costs have increased, along with increases in the costs of raw materials, labor and freight,” said Donna Parke, marketing and services manager at Tramontina, which in the summer closed its cookware plant in Manitowoc, Wis., and consolidated it with factories in Brazil. The shutdown eliminated 145 jobs.

Like Tramontina, much of Wisconsin’s manufacturing operations and workforce are in rural areas, which, along with better-than-expected support in Milwaukee suburbs, helped Trump squeak out a win over Clinton.

Charles Franklin, director of the Marquette Law School Poll, said that, for Wisconsin voters in 2016, manufacturing and the overall performance of the economy took a back seat. Voters were more concerned about cultural conservatism and felt pessimistic about the future of the country, factors that made Trump more appealing to them.

But Franklin noted that, in late August, a substantially greater share of Wisconsin’s registered voters said they expected the economy over the next year to get worse rather than get better. It was only the second time in more than 50 surveys conducted since 2012 in which economic pessimism was stronger than optimism for the future.

The only other time was in January, also this year, around the time of the federal government shutdown.

“This represents a weakness of a central part of Trump’s rhetoric,” Franklin said. “We may not be in a full-blown recession, but enough that that could play a role in 2020.”

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-10-09/despite-trump-vow-manufacturing-in-recession


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Construction has been declining for over a year and is currently over-employed based on the volume of work..

Most thinking people realize the recession is upon us, just a matter of how deep and how long at this point.


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CBO says House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s drug pricing plan saves Medicare $345 billion over decade

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/14/nancy-pe...illion-cbo.html

How come the Dems are the only ones offering plans that actually saves money?

Meanwhile trump and the gop keep pulling us out of “endless wars”, yet won’t lower the defense budget.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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I do like her idea on that thumbsup


I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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It would be huge. Yes there are some risk, but I think you and I can agree this should’ve been passed yesterday.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
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