Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Likes: 501
C
Legend
Offline
Legend
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Likes: 501
The Zeitler trade was sketchy the moment it happened. Every team does the OBJ trade every time. While they ended up being the same trade they really were two separate trades.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 10,912
Likes: 1778
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 10,912
Likes: 1778
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Im not going to say it was a bad trade although I can certainly see that side of it. I think it was an unnecessary trade.

Notable stat: OBJ and Landry are one of only 2 WR duos in the top 20 of receiving yards in the NFL so far this season. (Godwin and Evans the other)

I guess the question one could ask when it comes down to it, is which player would be helping your franchise quarterback (the most important position on the field) more? Zeitler or OBJ?

I would argue that it's OBJ.
That could be the case of course, though it’s tough to say after only 6 weeks one way or the other.

We have to get Baker and OBJ more time to gel ... they clearly aren’t comfortable with each other yet

So, to follow the flowchart, which player is more likely to contribute to a championship once they do gel (assuming they will)? HOF type talent at WR or a Probowl guard?

I was never "in love" with the OBJ trade. Once Perriman was signed, I thought we had a formidable staff. However, OBJ is elite talent. You can't necessarily draft that unless you're at the very top of the draft. If you assume BM has enough talent to take you to the promised land, OBJ may be one of the few players that puts that prospect over the top.


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,571
Likes: 507
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,571
Likes: 507
Yes, I just assumed that Dorsey thought Corbett could fill in for Zeitler and be 80% as good ... and that the salary wasn’t worth it. And then Vernon could be way better than Ogbah


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
V
Legend
Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
I think Kush is playing well.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,117
Likes: 222
W
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
W
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,117
Likes: 222
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I think Kush is playing well.


I think Kush is serviceable. He's had some good games and some not-so-good games. I think Zeitler was not only much better (obviously) but good/great enough to "help" Hubbard. That's a lot to ask of any RG, but Kush has his hands full being average on a consistent basis. I think Teller replaces him at RG and Kush becomes the 1st backup. JMO.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,601
Likes: 584
M
Legend
Offline
Legend
M
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,601
Likes: 584
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
The Zeitler trade was sketchy the moment it happened. Every team does the OBJ trade every time. While they ended up being the same trade they really were two separate trades.


With the benefit of hind sight - the sum of the DL with Vernon and the sum of the OL without Zeitler is much less than the sum of the OL with Z and the sum of the DL without Vernon.

That's as of today.

Vernon had his highest graded game vs Seattle - 90+ from PFF - and it takes time for the OL to gel. Add to that the offensive scheme is taking deeper shots and is asking the OL to hold their blocks for longer (so far - let's hope that changes) .... just like Freddie - it's too early to call the result of the trade.


The more things change the more they stay the same.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,882
Likes: 1295
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,882
Likes: 1295
j/c

So we got a fifth rounder for a player most fans thought stunk. Then we get some unconfirmed rumor about a trade for Trent Williams and everyone wants to play revisionist history.

Amazing.....


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 106
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 106
I say we traded up, a bust for a crapshoot, I guess. So is Trent W. with us or no? Hope we get some help, because more of the same is not acceptable IMO.


"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
W
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
W
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I am not positive about this, but I think Williams has missed games in all but two of his nine seasons, including the last five years before this season. He also wants a new contract. He has also refused to play football this season. He is also 31 years old. I also don't think our OL is nearly as bad as some folks are claiming. I think our Personnel packages and our qb holding the ball too long makes them look worse than they actually are.
I think TW is a special player in this league, but for all the reasons you listed, I don't think he is worth the asking of a 1st rounder and the money we will need to give him. We would need to pay him roughly 12 mil next year (if we don't resign him - which we probably would), as well as give up a very high asset in the process for 10 games this year and 16 next. So a first rounder for possibly 26 games of a LT.... Usually trading for a player mid season is a risk, as they don't know the offense, they don't know the scheme etc.

You probably know more than I, but I would think OL would be an easier position to transition to a new team at than say WR or LB. But maybe not. You don't know the QB or his tendencies which can be important.

For me, if Wash wants a 1st, bye bye.

There is a reason no other teams traded for him before the year. People need to remember that....


Edit to add:

Joe retired at what, 33 due to his body breaking down. And he wasn't nearly as in rough shape as TW has been in. But, maybe playing through all those injuries hurt joe in the long run. IDK. I would just not like to give up a valuable asset for a guy that we could lose in 26 games, or a guy that's going to be out of football in 3 years - when we can get a road grader in the draft for the next 12 years.

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
W
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
W
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
The Zeitler trade was sketchy the moment it happened. Every team does the OBJ trade every time. While they ended up being the same trade they really were two separate trades.


With the benefit of hind sight - the sum of the DL with Vernon and the sum of the OL without Zeitler is much less than the sum of the OL with Z and the sum of the DL without Vernon.

That's as of today.

Vernon had his highest graded game vs Seattle - 90+ from PFF - and it takes time for the OL to gel. Add to that the offensive scheme is taking deeper shots and is asking the OL to hold their blocks for longer (so far - let's hope that changes) .... just like Freddie - it's too early to call the result of the trade.
You don't think Vernon has any effect on the fact Myles is having his best pass rush year yet? People are saying how OBJ not having a great year but he's opening up things for others, are not seeing that maybe OV is doing the same for others on the line.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,601
Likes: 584
M
Legend
Offline
Legend
M
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,601
Likes: 584
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
The Zeitler trade was sketchy the moment it happened. Every team does the OBJ trade every time. While they ended up being the same trade they really were two separate trades.


With the benefit of hind sight - the sum of the DL with Vernon and the sum of the OL without Zeitler is much less than the sum of the OL with Z and the sum of the DL without Vernon.

That's as of today.

Vernon had his highest graded game vs Seattle - 90+ from PFF - and it takes time for the OL to gel. Add to that the offensive scheme is taking deeper shots and is asking the OL to hold their blocks for longer (so far - let's hope that changes) .... just like Freddie - it's too early to call the result of the trade.
You don't think Vernon has any effect on the fact Myles is having his best pass rush year yet? People are saying how OBJ not having a great year but he's opening up things for others, are not seeing that maybe OV is doing the same for others on the line.


Honestly I think Sheldon and Ogunjobi are doing as much to help MG as anyone on the DL .... I think the idea of having 'studs' at each position along the DL is great, but to be honest I have been underwhelmed to date. And MG has had a couple of break out games with sacks, but there is more to great play than pressures and sacks. . . although with that said I also think playing 4-2-5 against some good run teams is a bigger issue.


The more things change the more they stay the same.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
I think that if all of these players had exactly the same numbers they have now, but if we were playing mostly mistake-free football and our record was 4-2 instead of 2-4, everyone would be quite a bit happier with everything.

I think that the continuous blunders, mental lapses, and penalties every game are coloring people's perspective of things.


It's kinda like when Mitchell Schwartz was here and everyone hated on him and bagged on him until it was pointed out that his biggest fault was that his name isn't Joe Thomas.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,795
Likes: 452
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,795
Likes: 452
Quote:

I don't know if I would say a bad set. I really like Peppers but I understand packaging him for Odell. And yes Odell has been underperforming but Baker's play is certainly a factor in his production.


You can lay the blame on both of them, as well as the o-line, and the coaching.


I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,571
Likes: 507
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,571
Likes: 507
No doubt about it ... if we were disciplined and a consistent team we’d be 4-2 right now and everything would be roses


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,203
Likes: 586
O
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,203
Likes: 586
I did a quick glance at TW's games played totals for each season. Just saying he hasn't played a full season since 2013 doesn't tell the whole story. He's never missed more than 6 games, which might be somewhat positive, but the thing I didn't like is that the trend is going the wrong way. In 2014 he played in 15 games, then 14, then 12, then 10... and in 2018 he played in 13.

That could mean he's breaking down, without looking up the nature of the injuries that kept him out of those games.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

-PrplPplEater
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Likes: 501
C
Legend
Offline
Legend
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Likes: 501
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
I did a quick glance at TW's games played totals for each season. Just saying he hasn't played a full season since 2013 doesn't tell the whole story. He's never missed more than 6 games, which might be somewhat positive, but the thing I didn't like is that the trend is going the wrong way. In 2014 he played in 15 games, then 14, then 12, then 10... and in 2018 he played in 13.

That could mean he's breaking down, without looking up the nature of the injuries that kept him out of those games.


One of Trent Williams' main complaints about Washington is that they have a horrible training staff.

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,203
Likes: 586
O
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,203
Likes: 586
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
I did a quick glance at TW's games played totals for each season. Just saying he hasn't played a full season since 2013 doesn't tell the whole story. He's never missed more than 6 games, which might be somewhat positive, but the thing I didn't like is that the trend is going the wrong way. In 2014 he played in 15 games, then 14, then 12, then 10... and in 2018 he played in 13.

That could mean he's breaking down, without looking up the nature of the injuries that kept him out of those games.


One of Trent Williams' main complaints about Washington is that they have a horrible training staff.


Normally I'd ignore complaints like that, but the fact that Jordan Reed is still allowed anywhere near a football field (with all his concussions and various ailments) might be damning evidence.

Slightly more seriously, a handful of TW's teammates basically supported his criticism of the Washington medical staff, IIRC.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

-PrplPplEater
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
V
Legend
Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
Quote:
You probably know more than I, but I would think OL would be an easier position to transition to a new team at than say WR or LB. But maybe not.


I liked your post and this is not a criticism. Just trying to provide some info on my experience.

Offensive line is the hardest spot to transition to when coming to a new team other than qb. RB is the easiest. You tell us the holes and blocking schemes and give us the rock.

Offensive line play demands guys working in cohesion. Misinformed folks always say you can't evaluate OL play until the pads come on. That is so false. The steps, angles, timing, gaps, cohesion, when to pass a guy off or when to double, etc, etc are huge and that can all be done w/out pads. Of course, that takes a ton of time and a ton of reps.

I think our OL was horrible against Tenn in the opener. But consider this. They had a new OL coach and a new piece. This OL has gotten better and better as the season progressed. They dominated the Rats' DL. They did not give up a sack against Seattle w/Clowney and Ansah. They all had PFF grades of 80 plus in pass blocking, other than Hubbard.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
V
Legend
Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
The Zeitler trade was sketchy the moment it happened. Every team does the OBJ trade every time. While they ended up being the same trade they really were two separate trades.


With the benefit of hind sight - the sum of the DL with Vernon and the sum of the OL without Zeitler is much less than the sum of the OL with Z and the sum of the DL without Vernon.

That's as of today.

Vernon had his highest graded game vs Seattle - 90+ from PFF - and it takes time for the OL to gel. Add to that the offensive scheme is taking deeper shots and is asking the OL to hold their blocks for longer (so far - let's hope that changes) .... just like Freddie - it's too early to call the result of the trade.
You don't think Vernon has any effect on the fact Myles is having his best pass rush year yet? People are saying how OBJ not having a great year but he's opening up things for others, are not seeing that maybe OV is doing the same for others on the line.


Excellent point! thumbsup

cfrs posted something about Myles being tied for the league lead in sacks, but he is only 10th in double teams. I think it is clear that Vernon has a lot to do w/that and Dorsey maybe knew what he was doing when he made that trade.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
Not just Vernon, but Ogun and Richardson, too.

An Oline really can't double anyone without it being a very severe pick-your-poison scenario.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 174
A
Practice Squad
Offline
Practice Squad
A
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 174
Two Points

Point the First....
Bravo John Dorsey! He blew a pick but didn't let his ego compel him into letting that blown pick fester on the roster, wasting a valuable roster spot for years on end. We finally have a GM who doesn't get sucked into the Sunk Cost Fallacy. Hooray!

Now the decks are cleared to take action and improve the second string O-Line or some other position of need.

Point the Second....
What happened with Corbett? Why was he such an epic fail?

As best I can determine, he was not wildly overdrafted by any means. And yet, all the other offensive linemen who were drafted in the first and second rounds of that draft are doing just fine. But Corbett barely ever made the active roster on gameday. He couldn't even cut it as a backup.

Why?

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,711
Likes: 29
T
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
T
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,711
Likes: 29
I'm only assuming he couldn't make the transition inside after playing LT in college...I never saw anything really regarding him struggling elsewhere (attitude, off field, etc) I'm assuming he just couldn't make the transition...but who knows...learning two different schemes in his short time probably confused him more.

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,870
Likes: 305
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,870
Likes: 305


You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


#gmSTRONG
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Likes: 501
C
Legend
Offline
Legend
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Likes: 501
Marcus Peters doesn’t even make sense for us.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,571
Likes: 507
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,571
Likes: 507
Jc

Yeah, unless we would have gotten a 1st round pick I’d say no as well


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 13
D
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
D
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 13
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Glad Dorsey isnt afraid to admit a mistake, move on and get something in return.
Yea, now admit to the biggest mistake he made and fire Kitchens!

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Likes: 136
E
Legend
Offline
Legend
E
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Likes: 136
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: FATE
I'm predicting we got a 5th.


I’d be shocked if it’s more than a conditional seventh round pick.




Wow. Great job by the front office getting some value for a player who had no future with the team.


saywhat

That would be the same FO that picked him with the FIRST PICK of the 2nd round...sorry no kudos for the FO on this one! thumbsdown


Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!

GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,882
Likes: 1295
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,882
Likes: 1295
j/c

I think it was a terrible pick. So the blame goes to Dorsey on the pick.

I think getting a fifth rounder out of him and moving on after making a mistake is something he should also get credit for.

Everyone in this world makes mistakes. It's what you do moving forward after making a mistake that speaks volumes.

Too many times I've seen GM's be stubborn and cling to those mistakes.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns trade Austin Corbett to the Rams

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5