DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker or Lamar

Yea poor baker mayfield. Broke the TD record as a rookie, then campaigned for his boy to get the HC job, and got EXACTLY what he wanted.

Everything you posted doesn’t absolve The fact that baker, by his own words, thought it was gonna be easy. Doesn’t absolve him from not taking this seriously because he thought they would just show up and play well.

I dunno if you directed your “some posters want to get rid of baker” toward me or not, but since you’re responding to my post, I hope you didn’t put me in that category. I said he’s gonna get his full rookie contract to show he’s the guy, but you’re #1 overall pick DIDNT so much of anything to show he’s capable of putting this team on his back and gutting out a win. A #1 overall should be able to beat a Denver or Arizona or a cincy regardless of circumstances.

Those were bad teams we lost too, and while the team itself sucked, that ALSO includes baker mayfield. Baker mayfield was bad.

I actually wonder if you, Haus, and others are capable of actually criticizing baker without the “yea, but” added to it. Cause I haven’t seen it yet.

Baker mayfield is short, not athletic, and couldn’t read defense worth a damn this season. His mechanics were completely trash, couldn’t keep his mouth shut at press conferences or social media, and thought this season was gonna be handed to him.

You can blame he coaching staff, but guess who campaigned for it to begin with: baker. I think it’s pathetic that a second year QB had that much influence over who the HC was gonna be, but that’s the reality.

So, poor baker because he’s a victim of his own doing?

We should’ve drafted Lamar. Atleast character wouldn’t be a concern with him. Atleast athletic ability wouldn’t had been a concern. Yea, maybe we should’ve went with Darnold or Rosen. Dude missed a month with the cooties and still managed to have a better record this Season than mayfield.

Instead we got a pocket passing, non athletic version of manziel, and a guy who needs everything around him to be perfect to succeed in case Keenum.

I’m tired of the excuses being given to why baker mayfield himself was trash this season.

It’s always everyone else’s fault but his.

There’s a good chance that we hire somebody with an offensive background. Whether it’s McCarthy, the OC from the chiefs, or stefanski.

What’s gonna be the excuse for baker if he doesn’t perform then? That those guys didn’t know what they’re doing as well? Because no coach is responsible for baker saying he doesn’t need any help during the offseason to work on his flaws.

You saw how seriously Lamar took the offseason, and now he’s gonna be MVP and has the #1 seed for his team. Allen took his team to the playoffs in his second year. Darnold also has a crap coach in Adam gase, yet not only finished with better stats, but with a better record.

Tired of the excuses. Baker primary reason for failure this season is because of baker.

Baker gets plenty of well-deserved criticism on here. What is so obviously missing from your Baker comparison to LJ or Allen is the team that was put around those guys...the schemes...and the coaching.

Those teams, schemes and coaching were built/designed to HELP their young QBs...not designed to feed the coaches' ego or stubbornness.

LJ and Allen would suck on our team as put-together for 2019...who would LJ throw the ball to on our team? Harris or RSJ? Both guys have Olines that make ours look like a row of folding chairs.

A Baker v Lamar comparison is as ridiculous this year as it was last year. They are two completely different guys playing on two completely different teams for two completely different franchises.

what does the browns being ranked 30th in the run have anything to do with his piss poor peformance?

the defense gave up points, but the reality is that the defense performed better this year than last, despite having about the same amount of injuries.

the team wasnt prepared at all against the titans....which includes bakers 3 picks that game, including the pick 6.

landry and OBJ, for all there faults, still balled this season, and had an inaccurate QB throwing them the ball. ya know, the thing that was suppose to be a strength of mayfield.

all of those things surrounding baker has been/currenty discussed in other threads. but i use this to evaluate bakers play.

and his play was garbage this year. period.

59% completion, 22 TD's to 21 picks, only winston threw more picks. and then he finished the season against a 1-14 team tossing another 3 picks.

but of course i get another "yea but" post from you.

he better perform next season. i dont think he's all that talented, and hasnt shown anything to disprove that.

some will look at the rookie year as proof and this year as a fluke.

it could easily be that his rookie season was the fluke, and this year is the real baker mayfield.

but hey, he doesnt need any help, right? i mean, those were his words afterall.

I think the biggest factor in Bakers future is Bakers attitude. We can bring in a high quality coach and if he wants to be a weenie (I dont think he REALLY does) then his career is a failure. Tools are there, fight is there, opportunity is there. It's all in his hands now. I'm beginning to think this season, with Fred's playcalling and the strife between him and his OC that this season was just a big cluster you know what.

the team?

baker mayfield had more playmakers than Lamar and Allen. baker had the best RB in football, two all pro WR's.

i was gonna give you the TE position was bad.....OH WAIT, it was bad because baker mayfield threw the nastiest medicine ball this season and had Njoku out for pretty much the entire year.

the o line wasnt the greatest, but baker mayfield horrible ability to read defense and float out the pocket saw him literally running into sacks. him running right into the arms of Clay matthews against the rams is something i wont forget anytime soon.

the scheme, the coaches? who picked the coach? Baker mayfield and dorsey. he made sure to get his boy hired, so yea, baker deserves a % of blame for that too.

Baker vs anybody isn't ridiculous at all. he's always gonna be compared to other QB's in his draft class, because thats what happens to ALL QB's in this league. this aint unique to just baker, yet here you go trying to make this dude out to be the victim.

and im not advocating for change. but i also bought into the hype of him, and now i regret it. i thought and even made the thread that he was gonna have a great season, and lead us to titles. but i didnt see anything that says he's capable of that this season.

Baker needs to start performing like a #1 overall pick. period.

and thats my problem.

everybody is gonna blame freddie, but freddie wasnt the one who stated he doesnt need any offseason help to work on his game. that was all baker.

posters are bringing up the fact that he's young and still needs to grow. i agree with that.

the problem is that the youn guy who still needs to grow doesnt want or need any help from anybody. thats what he said, after all. he's perfectly fine with fixing his flaws all on his own.

i guess that will be the next coaching stafffs fault too.

One could argue that the very fact that Baker helped pick our last head coach is evidence of dysfunction in the organization.

What does a QB, coming off his rookie season, know about what it takes to be a head coach in the NFL? Especially given the nonsense he was saddled with coming into the league.

Almost like an alcoholic or drug addict. I dont need help. I can change at any time.

I'd hope BM is more sensible. He does admit he needs to be better but if being better means seeking advice then that's the route you go.

no one needs any additional evidence to prove dysfunction in this organization. stating that theres dysfunction in brownstown is like saying the the sun will rise in the morning, but we already have 3-4 threads going on about that.

but ill bite: you know what also could be evidence of the dysfunction in cleveland? drafting baker mayfield.

There was dysfunction there but it sure wasn't drafting Baker Mayfield. Keep in mind, not two months after we drafted him, Hue Jackson was making his 0-16 jump into Lake Erie. If an NFL team has made a dumber, more dysfunctional decision than bringing back a 1-31 coach to pair with a #1 overall QB, I'd like to hear about it.

Meanwhile, Lamar went to a consistently winning team, with a head coach that had already won a Super Bowl (with Joe Freaking Flacco), an offense built by Greg Roman (who had already done a great job with Kaep in San Fran, and Taylor in Buffalo).

It is true that Lamar deserves plenty of credit for working hard at his craft, and by all accounts, taking things more seriously than Baker did this off-season. I think there's a little more to it than either side wants to admit. However, let's not pretend that if we flipped teams who drafted them (Lamar to the Browns, Baker to the Ravens) that they'd be the same players today. That is a laughable idea, if there's anyone who even believes it in the first place.

I just want to add one thing ......

Jackson loves using the middle of the field, and specifically, throwing to his TE ..... and he has 3 useful TE on his team. He had 289 completions this season, and 125 of those went to his 3 TE. 49 went to his RBs. 115 went to his WRs.

At Oklahoma, Baker threw to his TEs a lot. Who did we have at TE this year? Njoku was lost for most of the season. We cut Fells. The entire TE room, 5 different TE, caught only 41 passes out of 317 total completions by Baker. We failed to construct a team that played to his strengths. Last year, Njoku has his 2nd leading receiver. This year ..... TE was a big, gaping hole.

Hopefully we address the position this off-season.

Lamar also has the benefit of playing behind the BEST OL in football.

Our OF was complete garbage and I don't care what PFF says. OTs were garbage, RG was garbage. TEs sucked as well. That is 3/5 of the OL

Baker had his issues for sure, but he was hardly in the ideal situation to have success. All the shiny toys (OBJ, Landry, Hunt) are nice, but you win in the trenches and that is where Dorsey failed miserably, plain and simple.

At some point you have to question how much of the problems rests with Baker and how much of it rested with the coaching.

I've certainly not been bashful about pointing out when I've seen things that Baker has done that are negative. Some of the blame surely is on his end of things.

But everyone willing to be honest about it knew he was a brash kid and would need a hard nosed HC to reign him in and make him accountable. The only stretch of time we had such a HC was the last half of the 2018 season. The results looked pretty good then.

That's what it will take if we expect Baker to succeed. A hard nosed HC that won't put up with nonsense and that makes Baker accountable.

We all saw the potential in 2018. We saw how he did when a HC like Williams was in charge. That doesn't mean Williams would have made a good HC. What it does mean is we saw a different Baker when we had a HC that wouldn't put up with BS.

I certainly can't say which way the book will read on Baker's career. But I am willing to say that I'm not going to judge the book on him based on the first couple of chapters.

What do you mean at some point?

We’re all in other threads talking about how bad the coaching staff was. How dysfunctional the organization is.

Why can’t I simply evaluate baker based on his own individual performance and his inability to keep his mouth shut?

It’s actively being discussed how much of the problem rest with coaching. But this thread was made (again, not by me) talking about the players themselves. So there is no “at some point” because it’s already been done.

This thing about a hard nose HC.....yea great. I like those kinds of coaches too, but what does it say about our supposedly franchise QB that he can’t even do the little things or take initiative by himself that we basically need a drill sergeant to hold his hand?

Like damn baker shouldn’t be held responsible for not doing the little things and thinking it was easy? He shouldn’t be EXPECTED to take initiative and do the things off the field that he can control?

Man come on.....at the end of the day, he’s a grown ass man, who should be expected to do the things that are in his control, regardless of how tough or soft the coach is.

The more you guys post with these crazy defenses of baker, the more it sounds like he’s less of a #1 overall pick and more of a massive project that shouldve been drafted in the 5th round.

Damn Colin cowherd for being correct.

It was two pronged and ended up equaling a horrid season.

You're on a roll today aren't you?

I guess you missed the part where I said Baker was at least in part responsible for his own shortcomings.

I just don't think that's the entire story here.

Like I’ve said, baker better perform next season.

The honeymoon wore off during the season, so what’s gonna happen if we get a similar mayfield with a different coach?

And his recent comments about not needing any help doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. Maybe it does for you, but don’t expect me to agree.

I'm not confident in Mayfield by any stretch. I too thought his comments about not working with a QB guru during the off season was stupid.

I don't know where the hell you're reaching your conclusions from regarding my opinion. I'm just willing to see if a hard nosed HC can make a difference.

Baker was certified trash this year and showed no signs he's the long term answer. Was the dysfunctional organization partly to blame? Yes, of course. But it was shown over and over and over again, time and time again, play after play, Baker Mayfield had no idea what he was doing or where to go with the ball. He takes so long to get off his first read there's almost no point going through his progressions. The window on the 2nd and 3rd and 4th options have already closed. 90% of time in the NFL receivers are open if you know where to go with the ball. He just doesn't know.

The only difference between Baker and other guys that have come through here is that Baker will push the ball downfield. I think this is an important aspect that holds out some hope that he can turn it around. You can't change check down Charlies. They are what they are and will never be good. Baker is aggressive. If he can just get better at recognition I think there is still hope. But I don't know if he'll put in the work. I think he will be forced to under McCarthy and McDaniels. Those are my top choices, in that order.

Or just tank for Lawrence next year.

And for all the Baker fans out there, I ask that you consider this perspective. He thought so much of you, that he didn't work in the off season, came into the season with an attitude, continued that attitude throughout the season, embarrassed the franchise repeatedly on and off the field, and had the arrogance to claim he knows what he needs to work on. He also lobbied for Freddie then turned his back on him (listen to one of his recent pressers when asked about Freddie'sjob security). If he cares so little about you, why do you love him so much? If he wasn't willing to be the best version of himself for the Cleveland Browns, why do you love him so much?

Talk little, work hard, win games.