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Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog


The bottom line is that our FO failed w/those picks. Dorsey did not.


I've mentioned this before - I think it's way too soon to declare Dorsey's drafts a success. Baker, Ward, Greedy are all in 'show me' status. Taki and Redwine are very much - Meh. Other than Nich Chubb who might be the best RB in the NFL - the 2018 list is full of unprovens too.

Personally I lean on the Dorsey did great side - I think OBJ & Vernon should shine. I think Ward and Greedy will be a great tandem at CB. I think Baker is going to bounce back .... but none of that is at all certain.


You are one of the guys I don't want to converse with, but I am going to have to clarify my position again.

I was comparing the receivers taken by Sashi and company in 2016 to the receivers taken by Dorsey in KC in the same year.

The Browns invested 4 picks at the position and Dorsey invested 2.

However, Hill and Robinson is far superior to Coleman, Louis, Payton, and Higgins.

That is what I was saying and I don't see how another poster [not you] can call that deceitful. But, the refs allowed it to stand.

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IDK....

I would say that Dorsey's record with WR draft picks while with the Browns is not great .... would it be fair to judge him by Dorsey's best picks over his whole career or to judge him on results while with the Browns? Either way to the best of my knowledge he only picked Calloway and Ratley for us. I think Calloway is out of the NFL and Ratley probably should be. . . . With that said, I loved the Calloway pick. High risk, High potential - and with a 4th rounder I think?


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I sometimes wonder if I am speaking a different language or if my writing skills have evaporated. I thought I made it clear that I was comparing the WRs taken in the 2016 draft.

Time for me to move on.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I think there were a lot of questions about the receivers that year. A lot of folks had Treadwell as the top guy. Some had Dotson. Some Coleman. I think Coleman got attention because he was the fastest. It turned out be a terrible WR draft class, sans one.

Michael Thomas, the league's top receiver, was in that class.



Yep, and he was drafted in the 2nd round. Like I said earlier, there are lot's of ways to do it, but none are fool proof. If you look at Thomas, no way should he have been a 2nd round pick. He should have been top 10-20 pick.


Some might say higher....cool...I tend to discount the receiver position a bit more than some others.

Just expressing my views, not discounting others opinions. We all place different values on different positions. For me, receivers are somewhere near the bottom end of starting positions on both sides of the ball.
To me, the position is about catching the ball. A simple skill we learned with Dad....maybe Mom when we were 6-7 years old.

Sure, you have to grow in to the position, or have the speed to play the position, but I don't understand why anybody would play a player at that position who can't catch.

Tossing and catching is somethings boys have been doing for a few thousand years. Girls maybe not as long, but they do it too.

Just catch the ball. It's just playing toss and catch.


My son Chris and I played a game called kill. It is a baseball drill my Dad taught me. When he was 6, we were maybe 15 yards apart. Later, maybe 30-40 yards apart. You would throw the ball, the catcher couldn't move. He had to catch the thrown ball. If he hadn't actually caught the ball and it would hit body, it was a kill.

That was more a accuracy throwing drill, but you were still catching a ball. We did that at least a hour a night 6 days a week when he was young. I miss those days in a big way.

Catching a ball is a pretty basic skill in several sports.

People who can't catch a ball can't be a receiver on a football team, at any level above maybe Jr. High.


I went through a Jr. High system of 7th, 8th, and 9th in the same school. It then went to a middle school system a few years later. You didn't play Varsity football until 10th grade except for the few pulled up off the JV team. Never allowed under 9th grade.



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I agree and I always thought I had some of the best hands in the world. LOL.......that's pretty dumb, but it's a mindset. I could catch everything. I was a SS and P in baseball, but you need good hands to play SS. I was a PG w/a great handle in basketball. I was a RB in football, but caught a ton of passes.

I remember in 8th grade, we were doing a drill and pass after pass clanked off this one dude's hands. We were all wise guys because of the era, and I regretfully said something like "It hit him in a bad place. The hands." That sounds me, but we used to rib each other constantly. It was about having the longest needle and the thickest skin.

Well, a coach heard me and barked: "Let's see how you do, Vers? [not my real name...lol] We were running little dig routes and the coach purposely threw it way behind me while I was running full speed. I stopped on a dime, left my feet and lunged backwards and caught the ball w/my left hand inches from the ground.

All the backs and qbs started going nuts. I jump up, toss the ball back to the coach and said "Nice throw, coach."

I miss the days, bro.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I sometimes wonder if I am speaking a different language or if my writing skills have evaporated. I thought I made it clear that I was comparing the WRs taken in the 2016 draft.

Time for me to move on.


You did make it clear. I said (was trying to say) - picking one very small sample and using (probably) Dorsey's best all time draft picks at WR while he was with a different team doesn't seem very balanced. That's all. Sorry - not arguing with you. Sashi and co were terrible with their draft picks. I'd take Dorsey every day of the week and twice on Sunday - he is a far better talent evaluator and always will be regardless of how Baker and his other draft picks for the Browns turn out.


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Okay. My mistake. I'm sorry.

Let's hope that they do a better job this time. I was really going to quit this team and I still might. But hell, I came back here and am talking Browns again. I really don't want to watch them this year, but my dumb self will probably be sucked back in.

I am just so sick of the constant turnover.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I agree and I always thought I had some of the best hands in the world. LOL.......that's pretty dumb, but it's a mindset. I could catch everything. I was a SS and P in baseball, but you need good hands to play SS. I was a PG w/a great handle in basketball. I was a RB in football, but caught a ton of passes.

I remember in 8th grade, we were doing a drill and pass after pass clanked off this one dude's hands. We were all wise guys because of the era, and I regretfully said something like "It hit him in a bad place. The hands." That sounds me, but we used to rib each other constantly. It was about having the longest needle and the thickest skin.

Well, a coach heard me and barked: "Let's see how you do, Vers? [not my real name...lol] We were running little dig routes and the coach purposely threw it way behind me while I was running full speed. I stopped on a dime, left my feet and lunged backwards and caught the ball w/my left hand inches from the ground.

All the backs and qbs started going nuts. I jump up, toss the ball back to the coach and said "Nice throw, coach."

I miss the days, bro.



Good stuff man.


I am a baseball guy. You have heard me say that before. I was a catcher in college and pitched in HS as well. Baseball is the ultimate catching game. Every play on D requires catching a ball before making a out of throwing for one.


I have, well, had good hands as well. But with 5.0 spend and 5'10" height, I was a half ass linebacker. I played, but in football, I loved kicking. I was the team kicker. I was going to be Lou Groza. I did win a game late on a 44 yard fieldgoal. 44 was a big number when I played, but that was about the time the Gogalacks showed up and changed the way people kicked.

But, that's OK, baseball was my sport. Really man, I was a good baseball player. Had a torn shoulder not ended it, I might be in the HOF now.



OK....maybe not, the Bourbon is kicking in, but I was better than way more than most.

I love baseball. It teaches a player that failure is a norm in life. Deal with it.

Where else can you make a 30% and be considered a top player? If you hit .300, you are a star. Come home with a 30% on a test, complete 30% of your passes, or hit 30% of your shots, you aren't looking all that good.

In baseball, you are a HOF candidate.

Last edited by Ballpeen; 03/05/20 09:36 PM.

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What's crazy to me is that my son is a pretty good varsity pitcher in HS. Unfortunately, he plays on a not so good team.

He threw a 1 hitter last year 2x as a junior. He has a 2, 4, seamer and a slider that is pretty nasty. He was throwing 79-80 last year and will probably end up throwing around 83-87 by the end of the season. I think he also had 2 or 3 games where he had 4k's in an inning because our fielding is... not so good. LOL

So, what blows my mind is that... no colleges are interested because he is 5'8.

10 years ago... kid probably would have been drafted in HS.


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Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
What's crazy to me is that my son is a pretty good varsity pitcher in HS. Unfortunately, he plays on a not so good team.

He threw a 1 hitter last year 2x as a junior. He has a 2, 4, seamer and a slider that is pretty nasty. He was throwing 79-80 last year and will probably end up throwing around 83-87 by the end of the season. I think he also had 2 or 3 games where he had 4k's in an inning because our fielding is... not so good. LOL

So, what blows my mind is that... no colleges are interested because he is 5'8.

10 years ago... kid probably would have been drafted in HS.


They put pitchers in to a mold. It's hard for many coaches to look out of the mold.

Here is the deal, if your son is right handed, most scouts, coaches are looking for 87 as a minimum. Leftys can drop to about 83-84.

Just keep pitching. My son was left handed and maybe even shorter than your son. He got a few offers from some smaller schools, but he wanted to play at a bigger school. He(we) decided to go junior college as he did get some offers there. He chose a school in Alabama that is always in the national rankings. He proved himself there and ended up at Alabama his final two seasons on a baseball scholarship.

The deal with baseball is a D1 college is allowed I believe 11.5 scholarships. That means very few get anything close to a full ride. He got a 25% his first year and a 40% his second.

Are you getting you son out there? The summers is where you are seen. Baseball camps is a good place. All the big colleges have them. And helping at these camps are a ton of smaller school coaches. I started him in the 10th grade. Two a summer in addition to the travel team he played on.

He went to TN camps twice. Fla, Aub, KY, FSU, and Clemson. A lot of coaches knew him when they saw him on the travel team.

If you are behind, you still have time. Most schools have winter Christmas camp. Usually 2-3 days. I know Tennessee does. We did that. Talk to his HS baseball coach. Get his honest opinion. I am sure he knows some college coaches. Get him to spark some interest, but again, just being honest, he won't do that if he doesn't think the player is good enough.

If you want to talk more, you can PM me any time. I love to talk baseball.


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I am so fascinated by the process top HS athletes go through to get discovered and potentially get a scholarship offer. Thanks for sharing Ballpeen. I am so into this show QB1 on Netflix that follows the recruitment process for Top Rated HS QB's. Justin Fields is on Season 2, amazing.

I have a friend whose son is a 4 star S/DB in the state I live. Talking to him about the recruitment process is so crazy. Kid has offers from some of the top schools and is just biding his time before he makes a decision. They get calls from schools non stop. Nuts




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Moneyball, we are watching it in action, enjoy...

As long as the moneyballers "improve" the roster, building a team to win 'now' and to insure the team makes the 2020 playoffs, it's difficult to criticize the cuts.

...JUST WIN, NOW!





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