DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns sign DE Adrian Clayborn

I get letting Nassib go. At the time, he was JaG, and we were on the cusp of bringing in a whole slew of young linemen. In hindsight it doesn't look so great, but new regimes do this all the time (kicking out and bringing in like for like).

I even understand the Ogbah move. At the time we were hurting for secondary help, and we were actually looking pretty good with who we had up front. We brought in Murray, who's a versatile DB. Decent safety and can jump up to CB when we're desperate. We were hurting for a guy or 2 like that at times last year.

The one I don't understand is the other dude we drafted the year before that we traded to the Eagles for peanuts. He was good, and we just weren't playing him. That one made no sense.

I don't think losing Ogbah or Nassib was a big deal. We needed safety help and Murray provided that. He also played in the slot.

I do think it was a mistake to get rid of young guys like Schwartz, Gipson, and Mack. Hell, even Benji was better than the receivers we replaced him with.

I wonder if losing a young guy like Shobert will be costly? I wonder if parting ways w/guys like Carrie, Burris, and Murray will be mistakes.

Crap like all of these moves happens all the time. Some folks just want to keep agitating the hornet's nest, though.

So talking about roster moves from 2015 is not just agitating the hornets nest?

j/c



We did NOT "get rid of" Schwartz OR Mack. Gipson had a good six games before thinking he was Ed Reed. He continued to be a JAG after he left here.

We gave Nassib away...got rid of him...released him.

Carrie was GROSSLY overpaid and only brought in to cover up the AWFUL, arrogant trade of McCourty...for a 7th rd pick at that.

We also did NOT "part ways" with Murray or Burris...they signed for stoooopid money elsewhere.

We tried to keep Shobert...he wanted more money than we were willing to spend. Dorsey's group didn't even SPEAK with Shobert's group.

Hornets nest agitating? Puhleeeze. Some folks just want to re-write history so they can feel correct. Other folks won't let that happen.

Genard Avery was the guy I was thinking of. That move sucked. Made no sense (other than we inexplicably weren't playing him).

Carrie was overpayed. He can play and there's a spot for a guy like him on just about every roster (need CB depth), but for the price I don't blame our FO for letting him walk.

I think it's a bummer that we lost Burris and Murray. Neither were world-beaters, so I haven't brought out the torch and pitchfork on those moves, but now it's up to them to find bodies that are at least as good. I don't recall either of those guys costing a ton, either.

Losing Schobert sucks. I don't get this one. 2 FOs wouldn't engage with him.

And the contract he signed was pretty darn reasonable. Created a hole and I don't see an upgrade on the roster yet.

Speaking of ... is Avery still with Philly?

1 of 3 things happened with sho ...

1. We approached him and he wanted so much more than we were willing to pay there wasn’t much to say ... this is what i think happened ...

2. We didn’t think much of him and didn’t engage for that reason ... that would be stupid ... i don’t think these guys are stupid ...

3. Sho had seen enough of the sheet show our owner puts on and we were told don’t bother knocking ...

I believe it was #1 ...

Based on some articles I've read and considering the defensive signings the team has made I think the use of sub-packages will increase. Billings, Goodson, Sendejo and Joseph have strengths as run defenders. Just speculating here but if these guys can help create 3rd and long situations then Billings and Goodson are likely subbed for players like Clayborn and "the unknown linebacker" or possibly a hybrid player we haven't acquired yet to increase our 3rd down production. I also hope we draft another 3Tech who grades highly against the run so that the interior d-line rotation is at least 4 guys. My guess is that Larry O. will be expected to provide more pass rush than run-stopping.

This is all SWAG but it would allow players to play roles where they have obvious strengths.

I had to go back and think about the comment and context in which it was made. It wasn't a rub on you at all.

The context was it seemed some were disappointed in some of the last signings. My point was there were only maybe 4-5 sure starters still available in FA. It looks like we aren't going to sign more of those guys unless the market bring their price down. Now we are addressing positional needs so we aren't hamstrung in to being forced to giving needs much more emphasis in the draft.

You and I are on the same page when it comes to drafting. Needs may play in to it a bit when setting your boards. Positions of no need might be dropped a few slots, positions of need might go up a few slots.

And when I say a few slots, 2-3 at the most. After that, follow the board you spent months assembling. Why bother with the effort and planning if you aren't going to follow it?

The only exceptions to not drafting for needs is kickers and snappers. If you need a punter, or long snapper you are going to have to draft one unless you just want to chance going the UDFA route, but more and more teams don't go that route. Kickers, if you get it right can play for 20 years. It's not like you have to keep doing it every 4-5-6 years.

I suppose the same can be said for QB. If you need one and you are drafting high enough, you take one even if other players have higher rating.

Hey guard........I think Billings will make some plays in the run game, but I think folks are overestimating his effectiveness against the run. He really struggles to get off blocks once engaged and doesn't make many tackles other than when he wins immediately. I have posted the PFF stuff on here in case you are interested.

I agree w/you about Clayborn. Situational guy. The LBer is also a run guy, but I don't think he is a very good player. Hope I am wrong.

Hey guard, here is some more PFF info that relates to your post:

Vers, I've seen analyses of Billings that support your assessment. I also saw some plays by him where he penetrates but doesn't necessarily finish the play. If this is one of your concerns I share it to some extent. Even if he's not making the tackle if he's disruptive enough to force a runner somewhere the play is not designed to go our other defenders will have to do their jobs. I hope we get some gap control from him.

If the team is serious about stopping the run as I said another interior run stopper needs to be added in the draft.

guard, I probably wasn't clear. I posted my thoughts elsewhere and kinda assumed you were aware of them. That was dumb on my part.

I think he makes plays because he is very strong. Thus, he wins early at times w/brute strength. When he does this, he is very effective.

On the other hand, if a blocker engages him and he doesn't win immediately, he really struggles to shed the block and make tackles. That is where he struggles.

In this way, he is similar to Ogunjobi. The difference is that Ogunjobi wins w/quickness and Billings w/brute strength. They are similar in that they both win early and both struggle to get off of blocks and make tackles once engaged.

Does that make sense?

Based on your last post, I have a question. Is your concern that he doesn't shed blocks effectively or that he isn't mobile enough in pursuit? It sounds like you are saying if he doesn't win early he gets stalemated which sounds more like a concern with his mobility. If its a concern with shedding that might be more a hand technique issue.

Good question. I think it is a combination of both. Once he is engaged, he struggles to get off the block and the one PFF report I read [I purchased the Edge] was that he looks like he is on skates as he moves laterally across the LOS when engaged.

But, to be clear.........I am not really bad-mouthing the guy. He might end up being a good acquisition. I just think some folks are overrating his run defense.

To any good team these are very minor mistakes. Carrie, Burris, Murray and Benji are situational players at best on good teams. Schobert.....we can just agree to disagree, no hard feelings, but a class organization gets their 4 years out of Joe and moves on.....

Unfortunately we are NOT a class organization so these are seemingly glaring miscues.


Schwartz and Mack......franchise changing mistakes. Those 2 guys kept Baker far more upright and more successful.

Good post.

I was basically replying to how teams undergo roster changes anytime a new regime comes in. There was a poster trying to start crap just like he always does w/the stupid regime wars junk. I simply pointed out that other regimes have done the same.

Everyone knows this. The argument is old. Time to move on. And no, I am not talking about you.

Yep.

Everybody has the same goal, just different visions on how best to reach the goal.

Really the first FO/GM related comment on the thread. Relevant because it was about the difference between adding depth across the roster compared to last year and how the guys we let go performed in 2019. . . . somewhere else there was a comment about smart guys being in charge.

Yep. You can't have a thread without somebody throwing crap.

I didn't see any crap being thrown in that post. I think you have to be looking to be offended to read that into the post. I said elsewhere I was never much of a Nassib guy (other than he played with effort), I thought Ogbah was a decent player and certainly not the weakest link on the team. I see much more questionable comments being thrown out by others claiming posters said or did things that simply aren't there.

It's not that hard. To claim that smart guys are in charge now, what does that say about the guys who were here before? It's right there on front of you.

'Smart' guys refers to the Harvard crew...you know...Ivy League and all that.

'Football' guys refers to the Dorsey crew.

One can say 'smart guys are now in charge' without that meaning that the 'football' guys aren't also intelligent...unless one is looking for a reason to be offended (as stated above by mgh888). I've never read anyone claim that the 'football' guys were lacking intelligence.

More likely, the reference to 'smart' guys on this board has alluded to those 'smart' guys having limited football knowledge.

I guess it could. But then one would have to ignore the history here to draw that conclusion. It's no big deal, but the barbs are certainly intentional. But hey, I give it right back so I don't really care.

Pit, stop wasting your time w/those guys. I am not sure if 888 is really that uneducated as a reader or he is just pretending to be so he can continue his war on me? I suspect the latter, because I doubt anyone would be that bad of a reader.

Let him go.........but, do check out the option of View User's Posts and note the high percentage of his posts in this forum that are dedicated to me. I actually feel bad for the dude. He is spending a significant portion of his life on me. LMAO.........that is so freaking weird.

Jeez, he absolutely crushed that Carolina tackle in those 2 plays (first video).