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#1773863 07/05/20 11:34 AM
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https://www.nfl.com/news/patriots-offense-with-cam-newton-ranking-the-top-five-starting-fives

TOP FIVE 'STARTING FIVES': Which group is No. 1?

Cleveland Browns
2019 record · 6-10
RB: Nick Chubb

RB: Kareem Hunt

WR: Odell Beckham Jr.

WR: Jarvis Landry

TE: Austin Hooper

The Browns have assembled an All-Madden Team on the perimeter with a collection of five-star playmakers surrounding Baker Mayfield. OBJ and Landry are sure-handed pass catchers with outstanding running skills in the open field. Hooper is the designated seam runner with slick route-running skills and sticky hands. Chubb and Hunt are high-end RB1-types with the potential to take over as inside-outside runners with sneaky skills in the passing game. In a redesigned offense that places a greater emphasis on balance and efficiency under head coach Kevin Stefanski, the Browns' starting five could become the most dominant unit in football.



Joe Thomas #73
BADdog #1773876 07/05/20 12:32 PM
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Let’s just hope that our OTs and QB can reach their potential ... and that the chemistry is improved from last year.

When you look at our playmakers it is pretty impressive on paper


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
BADdog #1773877 07/05/20 12:33 PM
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Sounds great! Now lets go get it done.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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BADdog #1773879 07/05/20 12:37 PM
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We certainly have the talent for greatness.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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BADdog #1773882 07/05/20 12:55 PM
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Read this earlier today.

There is no question we have talent.

Getting that talent to produce under these circumstances will be difficult. It is hard enough when there is regime change under normal conditions.

This is going to be a challenge for Stefanski and his staff. Limited time to get the coaches and players to learn about each other. Implementing new schemes and language. A new playbook to learn.

The hardest part will be how will they handle practice?

Getting this team ready for opening day?

This thread is not about Baker and I don't want to go there. But obviously he is important.

Defense will also be a challenge. We have some talent on defense but as a unit? I don't know what to expect from the defense.


BADdog #1773900 07/05/20 03:02 PM
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No doubt we are behind the 8 ball with no real practices. As a new staff and new system, it might be a rough row to hoe at the beginning.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Ballpeen #1774021 07/06/20 01:14 PM
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I'm certainly planning to give Stefanski and crew, including the players, pretty much a free pass for the first half of this season. That's how much I think the impact will be for trying to implement entire new systems on both sides of the ball while you're having to plan for your opponent every week.

That's one helluva tall order.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #1774029 07/06/20 01:28 PM
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If there even is a season - something I doubt - I am giving a complete pass on the entire season. Stefanski's got a red shirt year, in my opinion.

We're already just a week away from it being the middle of July and the team hasn't had anything more than web meetings. New coaches haven't seen their players, yet. Nobody has worked together, at all, really.
In a normal year, they'd already have finished all mini camps and basic installs of the offense and defense. Everyone would be in the swing of things and we'd be in the dead period of July counting down to Training Camp. Instead, we're counting down to a second lockdown.

Yes, things will come together, or should, as the season goes on, but we're going to be starting so far in the hole that I'm not going to hold any Win/Loss results over anyone's heads this year. I just want to see a semblance of a plan and progress during the year. That's it.

2020 is a write-off.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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I'm not actually speaking in terms of having some great second half of the season. Maybe I should have expounded.

In the second half of the season I would certainly hope to see signs that everyone is beginning to look as if they are on the same page.

In the first half of the season I expect Baker and the WR's to be disjointed. Sometimes passes going in the totally wrong direction because the QB and the WR are not even be on the same page in terms of which route is being run. Some will try to blame Baker and some will point the finger at the WR.

I expect the blocking by the OL to be very off and on. The timing in the zone blocking scheme requires them to work tightly as a unit.

I could go on but I believe this gives a glimpse of the kind of thing I'm talking about. As the season goes into its second half, I would at least hope to see progress in such areas.

In terms of W's and L's, that will be secondary to me. I will just be looking for signs of life.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #1774032 07/06/20 01:50 PM
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No doubt.

I wonder though if because of the virus impact that new methods of teaching are discovered?

Maybe new tools have been found that were not expected.

In the end though. You have to have physical practice. Have to simulate live conditions as best as possible.

Given the state of the US response to covid. I am thinking there is no way this football season is going to go smoothly. It is given that players and support staff are going to get infected.

It could very easily get to a point where they will have to cancel this season. NFLPA along with the owners could just come to the conclusion that they must shut it down.

bonefish #1774035 07/06/20 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: bonefish

It is given that players and support staff are going to get infected.


It has already happened on more than one team.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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I really hope there is football this season.

However, I am not optimistic at all.

What I could see happening is players deep in the 90 man roster end up playing. And the season limps along in what will end looking like a replacement league play.


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It's not going to happen.

We all cling to hope, but it isn't going to happen. Some players might need the money, but enough can sit a season. We are going to see dozens of players per team opt out.

Tretter is already expressing concerns, and he is the player voice of the union. He hears the players voices.

As much as you, I and every other guy might want to slow dance with all the pretty girls in the crowded bar, or for you girls, as much as you would want to slow dance with me....let's take a rain check on that. OK...part of that
was a joke


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Ballpeen #1774617 07/08/20 09:50 PM
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Quote:
It's not going to happen.

We all cling to hope, but it isn't going to happen.


I gotta admit it's been hard for me to drum up any enthusiasm about this team and what it might look like because I'm 90% convinced the season will be scrubbed.

Every time I get ready to post something in one of these threads, I remind myself that this is no ordinary off season. Then, I just say "what's the point?" and delete the post.


"too many notes, not enough music-"
Ballpeen #1774652 07/09/20 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
No doubt we are behind the 8 ball with no real practices. As a new staff and new system, it might be a rough row to hoe at the beginning.


the only good thing about that is that all teams are in the same boat.. Even ground


#GMSTRONG

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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
No doubt we are behind the 8 ball with no real practices. As a new staff and new system, it might be a rough row to hoe at the beginning.


the only good thing about that is that all teams are in the same boat.. Even ground


Not really. The Browns have a new coaching staff and they have to install new schemes. Many teams do not have to do that.

Damanshot #1774664 07/09/20 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
No doubt we are behind the 8 ball with no real practices. As a new staff and new system, it might be a rough row to hoe at the beginning.


the only good thing about that is that all teams are in the same boat.. Even ground




I don't think so. We would have been given a few extra weeks to install and practice with a new staff. We didn't get that.

That is huge.


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Ballpeen #1774681 07/09/20 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
No doubt we are behind the 8 ball with no real practices. As a new staff and new system, it might be a rough row to hoe at the beginning.


the only good thing about that is that all teams are in the same boat.. Even ground




I don't think so. We would have been given a few extra weeks to install and practice with a new staff. We didn't get that.

That is huge.


And then there's that....fair point that I hadn't considered


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BADdog #1775689 07/13/20 11:06 AM
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Ranking offensive weapons for all 32 NFL teams in 2020: Barnwell picks the best and worst

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2944...icks-best-worst

The most important thing for an NFL team is to find a franchise quarterback. The second-most important thing might be surrounding that quarterback with weapons. The Ravens went shopping for the likes of Mark Ingram and Marquise Brown last offseason and helped Lamar Jackson emerge as MVP. The Chiefs have been at or near the top of these rankings for each of the past three years, and their weapons helped earn the team a Super Bowl victory and Patrick Mahomes a $500 million contract.

The Browns can tell you that weapons alone aren't enough to guarantee success, but every team wants to have pieces that can win a game with one big play. Let's rank each team's skill-position talent without including the impact of the quarterback, offensive line or scheme. I can't emphasize that caveat enough.

Imagine if every team's running backs, wide receivers and tight ends were dropped onto a new team with an average quarterback, average offensive line and average coaching staff. Which offense would be the most productive after you throw the likes of Deshaun Watson and Kyle Shanahan out the window? A few clarifications:

Contract value doesn't matter. I'm strictly focusing on performance here, so while there are players on this list who might be considered bad values, the only thing that matters is what they do on the field.

Only 2020 matters. Long-term value doesn't matter, so I'm strictly considering how each player is likely to perform in the 2020 season after accounting for their quarterback, line and coaching staff. The NFL can be a mystery, but I'm trying to use aging curves, recent history and the typical value produced by draft picks to estimate performance. I'm also factoring in injuries for players such as Deebo Samuel and injury histories for players such as Will Fuller V when estimating their availability.

Wide receivers matter more than other positions. The league considers wide receivers more valuable than running backs or tight ends. The top 10 multiyear deals for wideouts are worth an average of $17.4 million per season. The top 10 running back deals average $9.3 million per year, while the top 10 tight ends are at $7.8 million per campaign. I don't weigh the value of wide receivers to be quite as significant as those numbers suggest, but a great wideout is worth more than a similarly effective running back or tight end.

Top-level talent is worth more than depth. Since an NFL team will typically run out some combination of five running backs, wide receivers and tight ends on the vast majority of its offensive snaps, I focused on the five most valuable weapons. I handed out a bonus for players who would widely be considered as among the best at their respective positions, including Travis Kelce or Michael Thomas. When two teams were close, I broke ties by considering those teams with more depth at the skill positions, such as the Patriots, Eagles and 49ers.

Not everyone who was considered gets mentioned. While I looked at the entire depth chart in evaluating each team's weapons, listing and writing about every single player in those groups would make this column longer than it already is. If I don't mention someone in a write-up, it's not because they were ignored or not considered.


The Jaguars were in the basement in these rankings last year. They're not 32nd again, although Jacksonville fans won't have to go too much further to find Gardner Minshew's weapons on this list:



2. Cleveland Browns
2019 rank: 3 | 2018 rank: 13

The Browns are back toward the top of these rankings for a second consecutive season. There are fair questions about whether their offense will be effective after a disastrous 2019 campaign, but their weapons aren't the problem. In some places, they're better than they looked a year ago. Free-agent signing Austin Hooper's production was inflated by garbage-time numbers in Atlanta, but he is still a significant upgrade on David Njoku.

Nick Chubb kept up his second-half performance from 2018 over a full season in 2019, and while he needs to be more efficient, the idea of Chubb playing in a Gary Kubiak-style rushing attack under Kevin Stefanski in 2020 is scary for opponents. Kareem Hunt was productive in a limited role after returning from suspension, ranking in the top 15 in both yards per target and yards per route run. Baker Mayfield's numbers improved with Hunt on the field, and Hunt is overqualified for his role as the bottom half of a back rotation.


In what would have been a surprise given what we thought last season, my concern about the Browns is mostly with the wide receivers. Jarvis Landry underwent hip surgery in February, and it's unclear whether he'll be ready to go in training camp. Odell Beckham Jr. played through a hernia in 2019, and there's a good chance he bounces back in 2020. But it's also fair to note that we're now three years removed from the OBJ who was one of the league's best wideouts with the Giants. Beckham averaged 95.9 receiving yards per game over his first three seasons, with that number falling to 74.7 yards over the past three campaigns. If he is the guy from Years 1 to 3, the Browns should be No. 1 here. If Beckham has another season in which he fails to live up to that level of play, we probably need to reevaluate our expectations for one of the league's most talented receivers.


You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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I just hope we can keep the whole thing together into next year. There's not going to be a season and hoping everyone stays healthy/ out of jail/ motivated/ not crazy for 14 or so months is a big ask.




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With us, the no-football part might actually help.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted By: 10YrOvernightSuccess
I just hope we can keep the whole thing together into next year. There's not going to be a season and hoping everyone stays healthy/ out of jail/ motivated/ not crazy for 14 or so months is a big ask.

Isn't it sad that the "stay out of jail" isn't hyperbole


The more things change the more they stay the same.
GratefulDawg #1775844 07/13/20 05:44 PM
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Good to see it, read it, and some validated, fair, deserved skepticism and reservations. The talent is here if we can hitch up the wagon and dodge the drama.

We are good enough that some folks should worry about us more this year. We may have a better "fluke factor" for getting some kinda breaks and making our own luck without relying on some zebra calls to give us a break.


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BADdog #1777775 07/22/20 09:27 PM
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j/c - didn't know where to stick this article about RB's who gain more yardage than statistically they were supposed to ... from next gen stats.

No idea how accurate their assessments are ... what I do know is that there is a 6 minute highlight real of Chubb from last season.

If you want something to smile about - watch that 6 minute video.

https://www.nfl.com/news/derrick-henry-among-top-10-rbs-exceeding-expected-rushing-yards


The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I love me some Nick Chubb. Not at all embarrassed to say that.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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oobernoober #1777790 07/23/20 01:17 AM
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I remember when people flamed him for missing a block on his 1st play. rofl


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It wasn’t just his first play, though. He missed a handful of blocking assignments in limited reps (IIRC) and needed to clean that up. Which he eventually did, of course.


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