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Well, there is nothing else to talk about since you are calling me a liar.

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It's not a lie if you believe it. thumbsup

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Hasn't worked very hard. Seems to want things given to him.


Do you have any kind of proof to lend credence to that claim? Articles? Quotes from players, coaches, etc?

If you don't, it's not a very nice rumor to start. There are plenty of people who do not like Baker and adding one more thing for them to use against him is unfair.

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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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There are articles about him taking time away from football. There are stories about him demeaning "qb gurus." So yes, I do. Unlike you, I won't just make crap up to win an argument.

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What went wrong for Baker Mayfield, and can he be fixed? A progress report on the Browns QB

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29387595

Last edited by GratefulDawg; 07/02/20 07:46 AM.

You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
There are articles about him taking time away from football. There are stories about him demeaning "qb gurus."



Without giving the actual context of those articles, this is a really poor assessment of what actually took place.

You're not being honest about what actually happened and simply making two statements to manipulate people's opinions on Baker.

I believe you're either trying to be dishonest or you just hate Baker that much. Or both.

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That was one of most comprehensive, fair, and accurate articles I have read in a long, long time. Excellent journalism. Thanks for posting.

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Quote:
I don't think Baker feels comfortable being the type of leader he's accustomed to with OBJ.



I actually understand what you're saying and why you'd think that.

I don't think Baker racing down to an OBJ who lost a fumble on the 1 yd line, ala Callaway, would have necessarily been effective leadership.

I don't know that Baker is intimidated by OBJ, but he doesn't seem accustomed to leading the OBJ type players.

Or it could be OBJ just isn't giving Baker a chance to lead him.

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Barnwell is really good. A few thoughts from the article.

1. Recency bias is a real thing and someone even as good as Barnwell is susceptible to it. I just do not agree in any form or fashion with him or any talking head that Mayfield's job is in jeopardy in year 4. The only exception is major collapse and the Browns drafting first. Mayfield is just too talented to give up on only three years in. Add in the lack of stability in the organization, and he gets a major mulligan in my book.

2. Continuing with that trend, Barnwell really focused on 2019. While he does cite 2018, it's almost like it doesn't exist in the NFL universe. Baker showed tremendous, and I mean tremendous, pocket presence in 2018 (I've been rewatching the games again, currently on the Falcons game). He also showed that he's a quick learner in that when he did work from under center, he looked comfortable and natural. The coaches need to get that version of Mayfield back, but it's there.

3. I hate the Cousins and Keenum comparisons. I don't think he mentioned Keenum, but he did mention Cousins. I get it's due to Stefanski, but he was implying some expectations for Mayfield should be in line with Cousins from last year if he plays well. Take everything good about Cousins, his accuracy, steadiness, lack of turnovers. Mayfield can give you that plus a Brett Favre big play ability that Cousins doesn't possess and doesn't want to possess. The key and trick for the coaching staff is going to be finding the right balance for Mayfield in being steady and consistent while unleashing his big play ability ... his plus level throws. I think this is an underrated aspect of Mayfield's game. The aggressive plus level throws.

Get him steady and figure out times when you let Mayfield be Mayfield and I think he soars.

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btw...not to get off subject but yeah off subject...lol laugh

How is your daughter doing. I say a prayer for her everyday, all the best.


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Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!

GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Both my son and daughter have been cleared and are back to work.

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That's good news!

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
There are articles about him taking time away from football. There are stories about him demeaning "qb gurus." So yes, I do. Unlike you, I won't just make crap up to win an argument.



I may not have the same reservations as you, but I agree. Baker didn't work very hard last off season. I have shared some of why I think that was and won't share it here, but no doubt he came in overweight. Couple that with a offense that was in disarray, it was a bad combination.
We, as in the board can argue until we are blue in the face. Lets see what happens in 2021.

This year isn't going to happen. I think the NFL really wanted MLB to come back, but too many players balked. NFL players are going to do the same. MLB canceling their season dooms the NFL season.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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Did the MLB officially cancel their season?

I agree it doesn't look good for the NFL.

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Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Did the MLB officially cancel their season?

I agree it doesn't look good for the NFL.


Minor League Baseball. Not the MLB.

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Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Quote:
I don't think Baker feels comfortable being the type of leader he's accustomed to with OBJ.



I actually understand what you're saying and why you'd think that.

I don't think Baker racing down to an OBJ who lost a fumble on the 1 yd line, ala Callaway, would have necessarily been effective leadership.

I don't know that Baker is intimidated by OBJ, but he doesn't seem accustomed to leading the OBJ type players.

Or it could be OBJ just isn't giving Baker a chance to lead him.


Interesting I do not remember any game where OBJ fumbled, apart from the 49rs punt return...

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I don't recall one, either.

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He was referring to the Calloway kick-fumble.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Did the MLB officially cancel their season?

I agree it doesn't look good for the NFL.




Sorry for the bad info. My bad. I didn't pick up the i in MiLB.

I still think there are going to be problems.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Baker got full of himself after he broke Mannings TD record. He felt it was going to be easy sledding after that.
He believed too much in his own hype. Had too many "yes" men around him
And Freddie the Fatboy didn't bother to push Baker to become a better QB
Both Freddie and Baker took the same attitude
Going into 2019. Both thought they could show up and half #=%= everything and still produce
Success.
Freddie really pulled the wool over Browns
Fans eyes last year.

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jc --

Since NFL Game Pass is still free through the end of July, is anyone else taking advantage of it?

I've been rewatching games from the last two years, specifically focusing on Mayfield. The stark contrast between 2018 and 2019 is something I can't quite reconcile and wrap my head around.

2018 - Goes through progressions. Calm feet. Climbs the pocket. Continues to play with confidence after making mistakes. Consistently praised for these attributes by the broadcast team doing the games.

2019 - Frenetic. Nervous. Happy feet. Leaves pocket too early. Doesn't appear to have any idea of what's going on. Still makes the occasional big time throw which gives me hope.

Watch the Houston game from 2018. Threw three picks in the first half, but you never felt like he was playing particularly bad. He had a number of really outstanding throws in that game that far exceeded the bad ones. He never lost his confidence and kept coming and coming. Last year, he would have gone into a shell and from his body language you can tell he would have thrown in the towel.

Baker is a guy that is not used to adversity. Plays his best loose with high confidence. He really, really, really needs some big last minute wins over tough competition to build some confidence in himself.

I think he has the goods. I really do. Watching games from 2018 and 2019 is a bizarro world though. Only in Cleveland can it take a 180 degree turn. Other than LeBron, which guaranteed a Finals appearance every year, you can never count on last year as an indicator of future success. Doesn't work that way in Cleveland.

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Quote:
I think he has the goods. I really do.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you were leaning in the opposite direction (putting it mildly) during and/or after last season. Did re-watching games change your opinion or am I misrepresenting your overall position altogether ?


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I was very critical of Baker during the season. Very disappointed in his play. If I made any future predictions based on that (I don't know if I did), I was probably victim to being a prisoner of the moment.

The farther we put the 2019 season into the rear view and the more I watch past games, I'm less emotional and more objective about it. I have my concerns, but I think Baker has way more positives than negatives and can be a winning quarterback. I think it behooves the Browns to commit to him and continue to develop him.

The problem with that plan is if Baker doesn't play well this year, the media and fans will be screaming to start over. And you know Kev and Drew will want their guy. And the madness will continue.

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Originally Posted By: Rishuz
the media and fans will be screaming to start over. And you know Kev and Drew will want their guy. And the madness will continue.


This just absolutely CANNOT be allowed to happen unless Baker falls so flat on his face that we'd rather bring Ken Dorsey. THAT is how hard they have to stick to Baker.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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We are very much on the same page.

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Quarterback play will always be placed under a microscope. Comes with the turf.

On this Board Baker has been dissected every which way.

Everybody has their opinions and the spread is vast. We all know he is starting under his fourth head coach and OC.
Some say it is an excuse to look at that others feel differently.

When the draft was happening. I wanted Darnold in a big way. Like Baker he is facing the same questions. Same for Josh Allen. Rosen not so much.

In the play so far Darnold and Baker are about where one would expect. Darnold of course had mono so that happened.

But young quarterbacks are going to be inconsistent especially high picks going to bad teams.

One of the problems I believe is because we are so deeply vested in our quarterbacks. We measure them against perfection because of expectation.

Baker was exceptional the second half of 2018. We all were giddy. 2019 team expectations were threw the roof. The team did not deliver on those expectations. Baker was inconsistent and when bad he looked worse because of what we wanted and expected.

But when you look. He still made a lot of very good throws.

I don't measure quarterbacks only on what they did wrong. I look at what they did right even when the end results may have been poor.

I could be dead wrong but I still believe that Darnold and Baker are both going to be good players in the NFL.

Baker IMO will be good. How good? This year I am curbing my enthusiasm. The Browns are in a tough spot as are all the teams with new staffs.

This whole 2020 season is an asterisk. It is not normal and I don't think it can be judged as normal.

However, I do believe in Baker. I think he has talent and he has what it takes. This year will be important in his development. I don't think it is an end all year.

If I had to venture a guess. I think he will show improvement but will continue with some inconsistency.

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Quote:
2018 - Goes through progressions.


I get that you are on a crusade to shut down any negative talk about Baker, but Baker was slow to go through progressions both years.

His overall qb rating wasn't that good in 2018. It was about average. It was bad when he was asked to play qb in the traditional pocket passer role and improved immensely when Freddie took over and they went to a bunch of one-read, quick-hitting plays where he didn't have to think. They also only asked him to read half the field.

That's fine and dandy for awhile, but NFL coordinators catch up and that is why you see many guys digress once the book is out.

You guys can rip me a new one yet again, but it's going to be hard for Baker to succeed if he can't improve his reading of coverages. He might improve for the short-term w/some new schemes by the new coaching staff, but eventually, teams will catch up. He is also going to have to put the work in. Hopefully, he is working on the things Van Pelt sent him and not practicing how to kneel.

To be clear.........I am not saying that Baker won't improve. Perhaps he can actually go through his progressions like a decent NFL qb. I hope he can because that helps the Browns. But, make no mistake, he must improve in that area.

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An opinion is not a crusade. Go back and rewatch the games from 2018. Much different quarterback than 2019, including going through his progressions. Not saying he was perfect, but he was a completely different QB.

I'm concerned about fans like you who don't like him for non-football reasons. I'm also concerned about fans who won't be patient with him. Your voices will be loud. The idiot owner will listen. Kev and Drew will listen. They will feel pressure to get their guy. Casting Baker aside will be one of the worst things this franchise could ever do.

Fans like you who put personal preferences above the team are not what this team needs. They need a little patience and stability.

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I think there were differences in his performance from '18 and '19, but he never did a good job of "going through his progressions." They just changed the offense to help him. Again, that was not sustainable.

Quote:

I'm concerned about fans like you who don't like him for non-football reasons.

and


Fans like you who put personal preferences above the team are not what this team needs.


I don't like him as a person. But, I have said numerous times I want him to succeed because it would help the team. You claim I am a liar. Others will jump in and once again the conversation goes away from Baker and attacking a board member. Whatever...

As for the rest, opinions are opinions. We all have them. I am not trying to take away your opinion. I just have a different one. I think we should both have the right to voice said opinions w/out ridicule.

Have a nice day.

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Rewatch some games from 2018. Some of it surprised me as well.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Both my son and daughter have been cleared and are back to work.


thumbsup

great news...now lets get back at biting each others head off...lol laugh


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j/c:



I'm interested to go back and hear this interview in it's entirety.


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