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cfrs15 #1856675 04/07/21 05:15 AM
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J/c

So it’s pretty apparent that QBs are going to go 1-3, right?

- JAX: Lawrence
- NYJ: Wilson
- SF: Fields/Lance/Jones

So the draft starts with ATL, who is probably fielding calls now


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
bonefish #1856678 04/07/21 06:24 AM
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I think all of the reasons you listed are absolutely true we had a very similar situation here as well when Bake arrived as you know as bad as the Jets were and are we were worse.

We made a great move by firing Freddie and bringing in KS, and KS bringing in AVP. They understand how to coach and develop a young QB. Early on KS went to Austin and spent time with Bake, and the rest is history. But KS had a plan to develop Bake in his system, and he used the running game especially early on to allow Bake time to develop in that system. When they hit the mid point of the season they evaluated what worked well and fit Bake the best.

I think coaches have to go very very slow with young QB's keep everything very simple allow the young QB time to gain confidence and slowly expand you're playbook. To much to fast and things go sideways. If the talent is there good coaches bring that talent out bad one's ask too much, to early and ruin the QB. Early on it's not so much about wining as it is building confidence.

Bake had the makeup and belief in himself that despite his struggles in 2019 he was able to put that behind himself and go forward. I think KS was a huge part of the reason that Bake did a 180 and improved so much in the second half of the season.

I forget what game it was but all of a sudden Bake was moving safeties with his eyes. I was like this kid is rounding into a solid QB because his coach is setting him up for that success.


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Just imagine what may have happened "if" Dorsey and Freddie were not fired?

IMO Dorsey was a good evaluator of talent. Freddie proved that he was not head coach material.

Dorsey may have hired another coach and built the offense to aid in the development of Baker.

However, the combination of Berry and Stefanski. That was the real formula. Berry immediately went for the weapons and protection for Baker. Signed Conklin, Hooper and drafted Wills. Made sure Chubb and Hunt remained to provide a dynamic rushing attack.

KS tailored the offense to feature play action. Then as the season progressed he kept fine tuning what worked best for Baker.

That is how you develop a quarterback.

Baker has the tools. But he could have failed easily if he was not supported.

The marriage between head coach and qb is critical. So is the marriage between head coach and GM.

It has taken what seems like a lifetime. But the Browns finally have it right.

For the foreseeable future we as fans will be enjoying the golden era of the Browns.

WSU Willie #1856691 04/07/21 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
j/c

Darnold has been wildly over-rated since his awesome Freshman year...seems like a good guy (like Ogunjobi), but he's simply not very good.


Maybe,, but think of this, Baker looked pretty bad in his second year. Then in comes Stefanski and Baker looks like the guy we hoped for all along.

I'm not standing up for Darnold, I just think if you are gonna grade him, the right grade is "incomplete"!


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bonefish #1856700 04/07/21 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: bonefish

Add Trubisky to that list.

Mind boggling that so much research goes into the evaluations and still so many never reach expectations.



Just for the record Nagy sucks as a coach I mean he is probably the least impressive coach I have seen and worse yet as a NFL QB guru.


Make us a Championship Team 2021 Draft:
Newsome, JOK, Schwartz and others. Berry is awesome
Get off early start and we will go all the way! SB baby!

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eotab #1856709 04/07/21 09:27 AM
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That could be.

At best though Trubisky was inconsistent.

My point is about the process of picking and developing a quarterback.

The right combination of GM, HC, and surrounding talent has to be right or the chances of failure are greatly increased.

cfrs15 #1856728 04/07/21 10:39 AM
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bonefish #1856751 04/07/21 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: bonefish


The marriage between head coach and qb is critical. So is the marriage between head coach and GM.
Sooo, KS is a polygamist?


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Damanshot #1856755 04/07/21 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
j/c

Darnold has been wildly over-rated since his awesome Freshman year...seems like a good guy (like Ogunjobi), but he's simply not very good.


Maybe,, but think of this, Baker looked pretty bad in his second year. Then in comes Stefanski and Baker looks like the guy we hoped for all along.

I'm not standing up for Darnold, I just think if you are gonna grade him, the right grade is "incomplete"!


That very-well could be the case...I simply don't think it is/was. To me, Darnold never got any better after his freshman year in college. I didn't ever see the arm "talent" or the accuracy that Baker showed consistently.

While Baker struggled in 2019 he was a stud in his rookie year...with both years being ridiculously dysfunctional - as they were for Darnold. I say that as praise for Baker and not an indictment of Darnold (for not being able to have any success is his own dysfunction.)

He seems like a good guy who is easy to root for (now that he is out of NY). I hope he turns it on/around in Carolina...I just don't think he will...not as a starter anyway. Two years in big-time college ball...regressing after year 1...3rd overall pick...I didn't - and don't - see it.

BTW, I don't consider myself good at evaluating football players...so there's always that.

W84NxtYrAgain #1856760 04/07/21 01:09 PM
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Got me.

Maybe a threesome or something.

W84NxtYrAgain #1856786 04/07/21 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain
Originally Posted By: bonefish


The marriage between head coach and qb is critical. So is the marriage between head coach and GM.
Sooo, KS is a polygamist?


It's called a throuple ... yucK!


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bonefish #1856847 04/08/21 05:49 AM
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I think the Jets made a huge mistake letting Darnold go. First, there's only one Trevor Lawrence in this draft and the Jets are not getting him. All of the other QB's are rated significantly behind Lawrence thus present a much higher risk. Second, the Jets have a weak line, sub par wide outs, and only serviceable RB's at best. Drafting a QB at number 2 does nothing to address those issues. Now signing Davis and Cole at WR helps but still leaves questions about their #1 WR. Signing Coleman at RB is nothing more than an old 3rd down back. Three, drafting OT Becton in 2020 proved fruitful as he graded out to a 74.4. By comparison, Wills rated at 61.5 for Cleveland. However, one good OL does not make a good line as evident of the Jets 29th rated offensive line.

The Jets had the opportunity to draft OT Sewell at the #2 slot giving them bookend tackles for years to come. With the picks they possessed, the Jets could have addressed OG, RB, and WR still this year giving Darnold the line and weapons needed to compete. Add into the fact that this would be year 3 for Darnold and the growing pains should be significantly less than that of a rookie at the position with no line or weapons.

Finally and most importantly, if Darnold falters with the offensive improvements made, the Jets have 2 more 1st round and 2 second round picks in 2022. They also are unaware of what veteran QB's that will be available next off season. Bottom line is the Jets had a golden opportunity to address the line and weapon issue which every QB needs to be successful which Darnold has not experienced at all while in NY.

You have to question the FO mindset to be considering drafting another rookie QB when you have done nothing so far to address an offensive line that was rated 29th during the past season. I don't care who they draft - they are in for a very long season (mostly on their backs) playing for a team that has put nothing in the improvement of an already poor line. God Help whoever they select.........

steve0255 #1856850 04/08/21 06:11 AM
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Only time will tell, but I agree. Darnold didn't have a real good chance in NY I think a change will do him well.


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WSU Willie #1856855 04/08/21 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
j/c

Darnold has been wildly over-rated since his awesome Freshman year...seems like a good guy (like Ogunjobi), but he's simply not very good.


Maybe,, but think of this, Baker looked pretty bad in his second year. Then in comes Stefanski and Baker looks like the guy we hoped for all along.

I'm not standing up for Darnold, I just think if you are gonna grade him, the right grade is "incomplete"!


That very-well could be the case...I simply don't think it is/was. To me, Darnold never got any better after his freshman year in college. I didn't ever see the arm "talent" or the accuracy that Baker showed consistently.

While Baker struggled in 2019 he was a stud in his rookie year...with both years being ridiculously dysfunctional - as they were for Darnold. I say that as praise for Baker and not an indictment of Darnold (for not being able to have any success is his own dysfunction.)

He seems like a good guy who is easy to root for (now that he is out of NY). I hope he turns it on/around in Carolina...I just don't think he will...not as a starter anyway. Two years in big-time college ball...regressing after year 1...3rd overall pick...I didn't - and don't - see it.

BTW, I don't consider myself good at evaluating football players...so there's always that.


So now our favorite sports reporter, Tony Grossi, comes out with a tweet asking if Baker Mayfield could have survived had he been drafted by NY Jets instead of by Cleveland...what a bonehead. Baker survived the MOST dysfunctional franchise in NFL history! Hue Jackson and Freddie Kitchens? Anyway, good luck Sam.

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steve0255 #1856856 04/08/21 07:42 AM
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I agree with all you stated.

With Adam Gase and that roster no qb would have had a chance.

However, there are economics to consider. They will draft Wilson and have him under a rookie deal. They would have had to make a decision with Darnold about his contract.

They have picks and are better prepared to build around a new quarterback. And then there is the head coach. Saleh has to be a upgrade over Gase.

Lastly there is Zach Wilson. How will he turn out?

I really like him. He has many traits that make for a good quarterback. Every thing he does. He does quickly. He fits the popular phrase "twitchy."

He has quick feet. He can set up fast. Move and reset quickly. His arm is good. But what I really like is his release. Very fast. Ball jumps out of his hands.

The NFL is a faster game than college. And Wilson has that quickness in his game. He has that ability to throw accurately off platform. Not many can do that. Rodgers and Mahomes are the prototype. Wilson can do it as well. He moves well and can throw well in motion.

I understand the move. May not agree. But in the end. It is all about Wilson. If he turns out. It is a good move. If not. Heads will roll.

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Chuma Edoga, the Jets other OT, had basically the same PFF grade as Wills (61.3) and they drafted Cameron Clark last year as well. McGovern is solid at center. Alex Lewis was also solid at 1 guard spot (66.6 per PFF.) They'll still have 8 other picks this year after taking Wilson including pick 23 and an extra 3rd rounder. They should be able to find a decent guard somewhere in there.

Darnold was going into year 4 rather than year 3 (Same as Baker), so they had to make a decision on his 5th year option (guaranteeing ~18.8M) where he wouldn't be cheap any more. Darnold was last in the league in a bunch of passing categories (and PFF's worst passing grade of qualifying QBs since 2018.) Could he turn it around? Maybe, but there's no guarantee, and, if he did, they'd have to start paying him veteran starting QB money. Wilson is a good QB prospect and restarts the rookie QB contract clock. It's hard to pass on a top QB prospect when you have a chance to draft one, especially when the alternative is sticking with a guy who hasn't been good through 3 seasons.

They got 3 picks for Darnold including a future 2 which will help them build around the new QB. That's hard to turn down when Darnold looks like damaged goods (the mic has caught him saying that he's seeing ghosts) and they have a potential franchise QB staring them in the face. Starting fresh is probably best for everyone involved.


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Their biggest problem (before Oline) was actually Gase. New guy will still be better off than Darnold. As you mentioned, they have Becton so they have the beginnings of at least a competent Oline. They could be taking the strategy of seeing what they have at QB and then dumping a bunch of money into the Oline next offseason.

Not how I would do it, but it's something.


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cfrs15 #1860053 04/28/21 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: cfrs15


Broncos can't believe Lock and Bridgewater will take them anywhere, I still see them drafting a QB .... JMO


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Surprised they didn't trade for Tyrod Taylor.

Teddy's never mentored a rookie before.


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I understand you point and certainly agree with you. I do see another side of this as well. When you draft a rookie it may be a while before he is ready to start. A good HC isn't going to rush a rookie QB and chance in regressing his development.

I can see a scenario by which they certainly see Bridgewater as a better option to win some games while preparing the rookie over Drew Lock and that was their main goal in this.

Not saying that's the case but I do think it's a possibility. Upgrading depth at the QB position.


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PastorMarc #1860088 04/28/21 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
... I still see them drafting a QB .... JMO


Sorry to disagree with you, Pastor, but I don't see that happening. Something about 'three's a crowd'...

Last edited by bbrowns32; 04/28/21 04:56 PM.

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Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
... I still see them drafting a QB .... JMO


Sorry to disagree with you, Pastor, but I don't see that happening. Something about 'three's a crowd'...


You could be right, I don't think they want anymore to do with Lock and will try to trade him ...


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Bridgewater is a good fit for Denver.
They won a playoff game with what's his name, Tim Tebow.

Bridgewaters' game is probably more well rounded than Tebows' was.


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How about these Quarterbacks for the Browns.
Heres the thing, wiki site lists qb's and games they started in a year, so I spent 5 minutes sorting them most to least, and, Duh! scroll down
and it's got different numbers for how many games a qb started, next to their name.
Anyway I'm looking to take the best names off and make a poll on the best 4, of the bad ones.

But I'm using My numbers for starts because I spent 10 minutes adding and sorting them.
Before the hiaitis, and only going back so far

Brian Sipe 109 starts
Bernie Kosar 96
Vinny Testaverde 31 starts
Paul Mcdonald, 21
Mike Tomczak 8 starts

------ Then the hiatis from 1996-1998-----

Tim Couch 59 starts
Baker Mayfield 45
Derek Anderson 31 starts
Colt McCoy 21
Brandon Weeden 20 starts
Charlie Frye 19
Brian Hoyer 16 starts
Deshone Kizer 15
Brady Quinn 12 starts
Josh McCown 11
Jeff Garcia 11
Trent Dilfer 10 starts
Kelly Holcob 10 starts
Cody Kessler 8, Johnny Manziel 8 and Jason Campbell had 8 starts,+ Doug Pederson 8

Senneca Wallace 7, RG III 5, Tyrod Taylor 3.

Of the ones from 1999 to recently, pick any 5, must pick 5.


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cfrs15 #1865339 05/24/21 12:30 PM
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Hot take:

Trade OBJ for whatever

Trade for Julio Jones

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Offer them a 2nd round pick and Beckham.

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That wouldn’t help their cap much.

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j/c:



"We'll see how much Brat...errr..........Baker improves w/out Hue in his way."
MemphisBrownie #1865365 05/24/21 03:21 PM
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Might sprinkle a little on San Fran.

Releasing Travis Benjamin will free up an additional $1.075M in cap space!

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OBJ won't be going anywhere in 21


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1. I would choose Baltimore over SF with the same odds.
2. Does the (A) for Los Angeles mean the city's A-team? tongue


"We'll see how much Brat...errr..........Baker improves w/out Hue in his way."
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Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Might sprinkle a little on San Fran.

Releasing Travis Benjamin will free up an additional $1.075M in cap space!


I'll never forget this Travis Benjamin moment:



And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
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jfanent #1865381 05/24/21 08:14 PM
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Little skin in the game. LOL nanner brownie


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Originally Posted By: Dave


Offer them a 2nd round pick and Beckham.


Maybe KhaDarel Hodge and a second.


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if we can't financially afford Richardson, we certainly can't afford a broken Julio Jones.


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superbowldogg #1865398 05/24/21 11:34 PM
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We have no need for him.

We're past the point of chasing shiny objects


Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Yeah, I’m thinking we don’t need him cuz we have a good WR already, don’t want to afford him and so.... no thank you.


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PrplPplEater #1865402 05/25/21 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
We have no need for him.

We're past the point of chasing shiny objects


I agree. At some point you can have too much. It's like some women and make-up. You can have just the right amount. Keep adding and you end up looking like Mimi.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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