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The NFL has decided that this is Buffalo's or the Chargers year.

rofl catfight boo

This is just silliness.


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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I didn’t want to derail Willie’s thread anymore than I all ready had but it looks like it’s ran it’s course …

Was I calling u coco puffs …. If the shoe fits wear it … wink

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Kev did not go into a shell at the end of the KC game … it’s just wrong to say that …

Which game? Playoffs he definitely did. Go rewatch that drive at 4-5 min and tell me those are typical stefanski aggressiveness.

Wasn’t referring to this game … I can’t remember it and have no desire to go re-watch it … weren’t we losing in that game? I don’t remember us being ahead in Q4 .. I remember the overrated one’s fumble and letting a slow poke QB run for a first on like 3rd and 34 or something ridiculous like that … am I misremembering? … not that it matters other than I don’t know why we would go into a shell when were losing …

And KC2021, just as CHargers game, he was forced OUT of his shell on the final drive becuase we needed TDs to win. But the preceding potential closeout drives he sure did.

Lets start with this years KC game:

Our 3rd last possession with a 2 point lead

Sack on 1st down so it was going tp be a pass
4 yard completion to Hunt on 2nd down
Incomplete deep left to Njoku

That doesn’t sound conservative to me ..

2nd last possession

Run Nick on 1st down … illegal shift

10 yard completion to VG
2nd and 5 a -2 yard run by the best RB in football - nothing wrong with that in my book
3rd down pass to Schwartz incomplete deep left

Then the last series the pick ….

I SEE ZERO CONSERVATIVE THERE … I’m not sure why U or anyone else would call that conservative … coco puffs if u do IMO

Bolts game:

3rd last drive TD in a tie game

2nd last drive with 1 pt lead

Run on 1st down …. No issue with that what so ever … smart actually in my book …
Incomplete pass deep left to the over rated one on 2nd down … once again … not conservative
Then the 3rd down debacle …. Seeing as how I’m not coco puffs I believe it was well beyond conservative and was down right STUPID ..

The last drive was STUPID also …

I don’t see anything close to conservative in the KC game
U could make an argument on the last play of the 2nd last drive and the last drive that he was to conservative … i wouldn’t argue with that … I think he just had a brain fart and turned chicken cause of the OL not cause of a lack of faith in Bake

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Anyone saying Kev has taken the gunslinger out of Bake isn’t paying attention or has no clue what there watching …. NONE …

Because you say so?

Well it is my opinion and what i saw …. so ya … smile


Baker is NOT pulling the trigger on open throws.

I don’t understand how thats on Kev … are u saying Kev is making him so afraid to make a mistake he’s afraid to throw yo open receivers … u lost me there dawg … i don’t understand …


In some cases, he's off in his timing...waiting split second longer would change his reads. In other cases, he's staring right at it and just won't trust his eyes.

Bake’s always had the issue … it’s not new … he’s never been real fast at processing info or trusting his eyes … that’s not an issue that started with Kev

And lets not forget the last 8 games or so last year Bake threw 1 pick and a bunch of TD’s and we heard no complaints about Kev - as a matter of fact it was the exact opposite - this year we lose 2 heartbreakers and all of a sudden Kev is taking the gunslinger out of Bake … I call BS!

Quote
e put up 42 points and some of these dolts are reading way to much into the fact Bake hardly went down field in ONE GAME where we didn’t have our starting LT and we pounded the crap out of them on the ground … add in the bolts suck against the run and are very good against the pass with a very good pass rush …

That's fine and dandy to point to Bosa and our backup tackles, but they played really well. Baker had little pressure on him. Similarly, people blaming our injured CBs is off base. THey played winning football overall, with the safeties (Delpit) crapping the bed.

I believe Bake had very little to no pressure because Kev had an outstanding game plan based on ground and pound and quick passes to get the ball out of Bake’s hands quickly - the reason was two fold - 1st to take the pressure off the tackles (Conklin has shortcomings in pass blocking) and the pressure the bolts put on - and Bake does not handle pressure well at all

U made ZERO points that would make me reconsider my original statements - I stick by coco puffs and dolts - wink




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My one take away from those circumstances: PENALTIES. It seems like we aren’t quite as disciplined in high leverage spots (especially our OL)


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I love the bias look at the Browns, Baker, and Stefanski. If the Browns are going to be a Championship caliber team then the warranted criticism should point out where there are deficiencies. The point is and still will be that the Browns have shown an extreme difficulty at closing out games offensively. Spin it any way you want, if the Browns have the lead and need first downs to close out the game they fail more often than not. The second point that is as clear as a cloudless day, the Browns are not only weak but could be classified as nonexistent in their ability to run a 2-minute offense. Your statement that the Browns threw the ball when trailing doesn't mean a dang thing if it's not completed and moving the team. Handing the ball off to Chubb with 1:30 to go with no timeouts for 3-yards when you need a TD 75 yds away is not good play calling in my book and certainly looks very conservative.

Finally, the stats do not lie. In 2021, the Browns passing offense is rated 25th with an average of 230.0 yds per game and Baker is averaging .80 passing TD's per game. Again, spin it anyway you want but these are not the stats of a gunslinger but perfectly match those of a game manager. As a game manager it becomes extremely difficult to think that every player on the offensive side can immediately change their scheme to suddenly become an explosive passing team after playing 45-55 minutes of game control. Timing immediately becomes an issue as well as suddenly having to read the defensives differently because of the pass area extension. We won't even get into the route running issues because not being target for 55 minutes will effect the timing and ability to create space.

Just an FYI, passing yardage of the teams 18-32 will show that the best any team has done is 3-2 thus far in 2021. 9 of the 15 have losing records and only 4 of the 15 are favored this week. If the Browns are going to be a real Super Bowl contender they must get their passing offense at least into the top 50% of the league and learn how to run a 2-minute offense. The defense is still a project and most likely a year away. The offense is a much easier fix but that means a scheme adjustment and I'm not hopeful at this point.


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This is really telling take on this topic in my opinion, and it gets at one of the "intangibles" I put a lot of stock in, when I played and coached some. One thing we have lacked overall is being mentally tough enough to ice a finish. Those who like to hear themselves argue and need to dispute others can chalk up our losses to lack of talent, scheme, play calling or lack of same, and the others we know. But we have not managed to do enough and defend enough of blown leads to make it home with a win. The culture change we crow about is not all in place. JMO


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Good point Steve …

With this OL and RB’s we should definitely run less … Brilliant! rolleyes




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Your assumption is that we will always be ahead with our two headed running monster and great o-line. Unfortunately, that is not the case and if that's the scheme we are playing and you support that then you will never have the team you think you will have. I will repeat this again, if you are playing a game control running offense and your multi million dollar WR's and TE's are getting 1 to 3 or 4 targets a game - you will be hell bent on trying to switch from that game control to a passing offense and be successful. There have been numerous posts on here about timing and accuracy. If you're throwing maybe 3 -4 deep throws a game, how does any QB just turn it on when he hasn't developed any rhythm. When you've spent the vast majority of 5 games throwing slants and dump offs to your backs you are not going to have any timing with your WR's nor will the accuracy be there. The Browns haven't exhibited the ability to close out games with that vaunted run offense nor have they shown anything that resembles a 2-minute drill.

Running the ball is great and a vital part to the offense. Heck, most teams would kill to have what we have running the ball but you will be hell bent to win on a regular basis or be of Super Bowl quality with the 25th rated pass offense generating a 5-game average of 230.0 yds per game and a QB with 4 TD passes and 29th in the league in TD passes. This is not a sustainable winning formula and unless Stafanski adjusts his scheme I suspect we are going to see a lot more KCC and LAC type games this season.


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Your assumption is that we will always be ahead with our two headed running monster and great o-line.

Your ability to ASSume ranks right up there with your knowledge of football … ASSuming that about me is a joke and a huge overreach …

Just another frustrated fan looking for a finger to point after two tough losses …

Where were u last year when Bake was as good as any QB in football with your BS complaints about Stef turning Bake form a gunslinger to a “game manager” …

I believe Stef has helped Bake immensely and I don’t think Bake’s a game manager at all …

Carry on Steve … u get the last word as I won’t waste any more of my time on U …




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j/c

Another Sunday game at 4pm leaves me watching all the games (yes, 8 TVs all 7 games on plus the NASCAR race) at 1pm and not focusing just on the Browns game. Doing that last week was the seed for creating this post in the first place. Yesterday was no different than last week.

We do not have the dynamic pass-catching talent that many other teams have...period. The fact that (3) of ours have been to a Pro Bowl(s?) in their career and the fact that we are paying (3) of them multi-milllions per year means absolutely squat about playing like dynamic pass catchers in 2021.

BTW...The OBJ experiment needs to end. It's just not working and he won't be here next year anyway. Offer to eat his contract and trade him for a cookie and move on. I predict that after he's long gone we will learn that he regularly free-lanced on his routes and Baker simply didn't trust him to be where and when he was supposed to be - and I won't care whose fault it was.

Next topic up very-well may end up being coaching...we are a mess right now. And yes, that is factoring in some slack for the injuries.

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In terms of OBJ, it’s crazy … even yesterday, he comes off the field and Baker delivers two TDs. It’s like they have a weird mental block with each other. he’s just not working here


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
In terms of OBJ, it’s crazy … even yesterday, he comes off the field and Baker delivers two TDs. It’s like they have a weird mental block with each other. he’s just not working here

Been saying this for a couple weeks now.


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Someone is going to have to explain how exactly this happens for me to buy into it.

But before that, I say go ahead and push OBJ down the roster for people that actually catch the ball. Mr. 1-handed wonder has killed crucial 4th down plays two weeks in a row.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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The way he was hurt yesterday, we might not see him in our uniform again. If he is out, he will definitely not get an extension at even scrub pay. Sad part is that I think he could be good again, just not here, the way it looks.


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Originally Posted by DiamDawg
Your assumption is that we will always be ahead with our two headed running monster and great o-line.

Your ability to ASSume ranks right up there with your knowledge of football … ASSuming that about me is a joke and a huge overreach …

Just another frustrated fan looking for a finger to point after two tough losses …

Where were u last year when Bake was as good as any QB in football with your BS complaints about Stef turning Bake form a gunslinger to a “game manager” …

I believe Stef has helped Bake immensely and I don’t think Bake’s a game manager at all …

Carry on Steve … u get the last word as I won’t waste any more of my time on U …

I agree that Ski has helped Baker tremendously. I don't see how anyone could dispute that. But I think two things can be true at the same time: Baker has improved but is also being held back. Baker has been (until recently) executing this offense quite efficiently. Its a very controlled offense. That in of itself isn't a bad thing. The problem is that I think its too controlled at this point. I've always felt Baker played better at a faster pace. Not to mean I think we should be running a no huddle all game. But just because your O-Line is getting you 3 sec worth of protection on average, doesn't mean you need to those 3 sec. Baker has been at his best when he drops back, plants his foot and throws. That's when we see these dominant passing drives, and when he throws that change up, takes those shots deep. That's when our play action is the best, roll outs effective...

We usually talk about QBs working to get the game to slow down for them. I think the way Ski is having him execute the offense, it isn't fast enough for Bake. What I talked about above, in those games that is when we see Baker influencing the game, when we see Baker as a driving force. Our passing game is of no real consequence so far this season. I say this because let's be honest: our RBs are more of a threat to score from anywhere on the field than any of our WRs/TEs.

Now this isn't to say that I think Ski's system is bunk. I think we have the talent. I think we have the plays at our disposal. I just think that to date we're lacking the will/desire to be more dynamic. We're too focused on spreading the ball to too many people. Baker has a good relationship with his pass catchers, but right now he doesn't have the great relationship that's needed to finish these games with any of them.

My unasked for, unpaid for, totally amateurish opinion is that we go: Baker, Chubb + (Johnson/Felton), Njoku (Hooper on 2 TE sets), and any 3 from (Landry, OBJ, Higgins, DPJ). Those three are the featured WRs and don't leave the field except for a breather or the 2 TE set. 3 step, 5 step drop and throw. I think there is addition through subtraction to be had.


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In layman terms that is what I've been trying to say. Sunday was a perfect example of what happens when you play a controlled game but lose your control. Chubb down and then Hunt who wasn't delivering the way the scheme is set anyway. Suddenly, though not unexpected, in game 6 the team needs the controlled QB to suddenly become a "gunslinger" and carry the team on his back.

Now I know Baker was hurting while playing behind a makeshift line but the stats generated at the position was basically the same as with every other game. 19/28 @ 67.8% completion record for 237 yards and a 100.0 plus QB rating including a fumble, an INT combined with 5 sacks. Mayfield took five sacks in the game, but none were credited against the offensive line. The offensive line unit allowed only nine pressures, with J.C. Tretter being the only member to stay clean in pass protection. The other four linemen earned 70.0-plus pass-blocking grades upon first review. Meanwhile, Baker generated the same numbers he's averaged through the previous 5 games. Let's not forget that 57 of those passing yards came on a "Hail Mary" that was pure luck and can't be stated any other way. Eliminate that play and Baker passed for a whopping 180 yards for the game. Now let's be perfectly clear, I am not bashing Baker. The Browns scheme is not set up to play from behind. The passing offense is not set up to score quick and as I've stated before, the Browns have a nonexistent 2-minute drill offense. However, you have to ask yourself, how can the Browns be down 20-0 and allowing the Cards to score on their first 5 possessions and then continue to run a game plan scheme where your QB only throws 19 total passes the rest of the game after the team is down 20-0 at the 9 minute mark in the second quarter?

I have not and do not say Ski's scheme is bunk. What I will say is that he has clearly taken a "gunslinger" and made him into a game control QB. Having said that, Ski currently has almost totally eliminated the Browns from being able to score quickly/run a feared 2-minute offense or be competitive and close out games if the run game is weaker than expected. It is also becoming evident that Ski has no intention of either adjusting the scheme or taking his franchise QB to the next level. Love the run game all that you can but you cannot win consistently if you cannot move the ball consistently through the air. You certainly don't appear to want to win the game when your franchise QB only gets 19 pass plays in 2 and 3/4 quarters when you're losing 20 - 0.

I still say the Browns need to take the next 2 - 3 weeks of practice and work on nothing but the 2-minute offense and closing out games. They must have the ability to score quick when needed and learn how to close out games. If we're going to make the playoffs this must be fixed quickly or it's going to be a long season. We haven't beat a team that currently has a winning record and lost 3 games to potential SB contenders. This week we pay 3 - 3 Denver before getting into division play with PIT and CIN after that. We're already 2 games behind the Ravens so time is getting short to get this fixed. It doesn't matter who you want to blame or who/what the problem is - if it doesn't get fixed it could be a very difficult season to swallow.


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I don't want to detract from your point because I see and agree with what you are saying - regardless of what it's called. But this is interesting:


Originally Posted by steve0255
...Mayfield took five sacks in the game, but none were credited against the offensive line. The offensive line unit allowed only nine pressures,...

No sacks were credited against the offensive line? So...if a defensive player comes through the line UNTOUCHED then it's not credited against the OLine? That's just one of those things where the eyes tell much more than the stats. (Not saying you were saying or implying otherwise.) Hudson isn't ready to play...yet. But he must. Any QB would be skittish with the way Hudson has played.

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i said during preseason that if Hudson saw the field at all Baker would be in trouble.. anyone with eyes could see that..dude doesn't belong in the NFL, there has to be better options somewhere. I get trying to stick and work on things with a project draft pick, but thats usually not on the active roster, Taylor should be good to go this week I would think and he look tons better than Hudson. Theres a reason not many people play with JT stance and its because its not usually the best and takes extreme athleticism, which JT had in spades and hudson doesn't. I'm sure Callahan can polish him in time if its possible, just not on the active roster protecting your franchise QB and RBS


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I was just posting what was written when evaluating the different parts of the team. I also am not so blind to see that there were issues with the line (particularly Hudson) but we are not the only team with O-line injuries - just a fact. My concern still is the lack of a quick score offense and closing out wins which we are lacking in so far in 2021.


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I would argue that our WR corp is actually pretty good and would match up or surpass other duos in the league. DPJ balls out and catches nearly everything thrown his way, same for Higgins. Landry speaks for himself.
What I think we lack is a Defense that can be disciplined and not routinely give up 3rd and long conversions and get off the field (bogus penalties notwithstanding). Dating back to last year where we get into shootouts with other teams (DAL, TEN, BAL, etc.) , have comfortable leads then give up unanswered points to get the other team back in it. Why are INTs so hard to come by with our scheme? Remember when Anthony Henry had 10 INTs one season? or Leigh Bodden with 6+ picks? In this pass happy league we should be getting more of them IMO

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Another Sunday of watching our pass-catchers be as underwhelming as can be...while also watching other teams with WRs who get open...fight for the ball...or...just catch the darn football.

If we don't make a move for a WR by the deadline tomorrow...we are mailing it in. Might as well send Baker to the surgeon and start talking about the draft.

I'm starting to think we drank our own Kool-Aid again...just like the 2019 season but with a ridiculously better overall roster "talent" and less chaos.

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Originally Posted by WSU Willie
Another Sunday of watching our pass-catchers be as underwhelming as can be...while also watching other teams with WRs who get open...fight for the ball...or...just catch the darn football.

If we don't make a move for a WR by the deadline tomorrow...we are mailing it in. Might as well send Baker to the surgeon and start talking about the draft.

I'm starting to think we drank our own Kool-Aid again...just like the 2019 season but with a ridiculously better overall roster "talent" and less chaos.

Agree - and I thought KS would be the last guy to let some success go to his head, but somehow he seems to have lost some of the mojo he had last year. Last year we faced adversity and still found ways to overcome, this year we seem to fold or become way to predictable. I get we have injuries that are affecting us... but there's more to it than that.


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