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I think we'll really struggle at times and show some glimpses at times.

Offensively I'd love to see TR around 1200 yards for the season... not sure if it'll happen with this OL. But even is a rookie with this line he should be over 1k if he stays healthy.

Would love to see Little get up around 800-100 yards with Jordon getting around 700yards which would help Weeden get around 3200-3500 for the year

Defensively I think it's going to be tough especially if we lose Haden for 4 weeks at some point.

Over-all record I really think we'll be around 6 wins, but I wouldn't be surprised at 4 and I wouldn't be surprised up around 8... honestly our division and schedule is just really tough. I think we're going in the right direction, but not there yet (obviously)


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Great post.




it's a terrible post. i wish i made it up. it looks worse reading it back too.


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Ok so here I go...

On offense we try to become a running team. This makes sense, but can we pull it off? If we can turn into a running team, there will be hope. If Weeden is throwing the ball 40 times a game, we are in trouble.

There are a lot of new parts on offense, it will take time to develop. I am concerned about Watson, who needs to stay healthy, otherwise the hype about Cameron will be tested.

The defense will be tested against the run. If other teams are able to run, they won't have to pass, and it will be a long season. I am thinking that JMJ and Robertson will be playing a lot. Look for Sheldon Brown to continue to be a target, and possibly Skrine to play more. I think we will see a lot of new faces on the D.

2-6 for the start, 4-4 for the end, 6-10 overall.


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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Quote:

Quote:

Great post.




it's a terrible post. i wish i made it up. it looks worse reading it back too.





It was a good post in a sense that you wonder what a good QB would have done to this team. Take it, those QB's came in after the starter was hurt, and beat us, soundly....

Overall, I think this team is better on O then they were last year. The Offense wasn't fun to watch... at all. Richardson will be fun to watch, which should open up the passing game. Weeden will bring a similar atmosphere to DA, similar to his good year. I think Mo Mass will benefit in all of this. You forget about him with all these new WR's. He is the Veteran on this team. When you have a good RB, and use him wisely, you have to account for him, giving some of the WR's some slack.

I think one of the WR's will shine through. There is some talent there. I like the thought of Momass, Little, Gordon, Norwood and Benjamin. There really isn't anybody there that is an allstar, but they all have potential to make some plays. This may be a good thing, in a sense that you won't see much double coverage. Weeden has made some good throws during the preseason. I think he can beat single coverage to make some good throws. I have high hopes for the O.

The D will struggle without Taylor, but I think they hold their own. I'd say that one thing this team does decent year in and year out is defense. ( Maybe that is because the Offense is so bad) There is promise in some of the young guys. Slowly as people return from suspensions, injuries and such, they will get better. Somebodies got to shine through. I'm expecting one of the Rookies on the D-Line to do this.

I predict, and I would honestly love to see, 7-9 - with the last game riding on an 8-8 type of year. I feel this team is better then they were last year. I think this is a successful season, and one that is actually fun to watch for once. Trying to stay optimistic.


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General reply:

Someone mentioned this earlier. I'm expecting really bad (I mean REALLY bad) play at the beginning of the year. Mistakes that make you throw things in your living room and violently remove your TV from whatever room you're watching.

But then I expect improvement in the second half of the season. I expect a handful of our rooks to step up in a big way. I expect Weeden to lead the offense according to what I said earlier regarding a crappy first half season and then show improvement.

My bold prediction is that I expect Jordan Cameron to be our new Peyton Hillis this year (turn heads, even outside of Cleveland).


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I said 2-14 before Taylor and Gocong were injured, and I now have even less hope that I'm wrong. Sophomore unproven coach, rookies in most of the money positions and then some, injuries to two of our best defenders and another one may be suspended, receivers still dropping balls, OL not performing well, new OC, a brutal schedule to start the season....I'm going to stop before I start crying.


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In all honesty...


I still dont know how we can be worse than last year. Last year we got 4 wins. Ugly wins sure, but wins nonetheless...The NFL and sport dont care how you get the wins, or the losses. If theyre close, you can build, if not you need to improve. We had several close losses. Whether or not we were outplayed or what it was, they were close.

Now we have a 2nd year in the system, and the guys that arent in their second year in the system are talent upgrades over the guys that would have been. Save for Haden for 4 games and Taylor for 6. EVERY other spot is improvement. That is shown in guys like Emmanuel Stephens that started last year and are now backups.

Every trouble spot we upgraded. Sure they were with rookies (or older guys at DE) so we can expect some warts, but like I've said, when you have a QB that isnt afraid to sling it all over the place and wherever he wants it, and he has the ability to place it everywhere he wants it, you have a punchers chance. We didnt have that last year, because we had hesitation from the QB spot.

You think that MoMass and co last year really dug out their routes last year because if they were slightly open in their window they wouldnt get it and had to work hard AFTER the route to get the ball...that's what players will end up doing. Now we have a guy that will hit them in their window so the accountability raises. You'll see guys getting more open in their windows so that they can keep their job or keep the chains moving.

What I see is that theres no way for us to be worse. Rookies make rookie mistakes but talent makes plays. We have talent now on the roster, just young talent which will lead to mistakes, but to me talent always wins out.

Whether its raw, whether its inexperienced, it will shine, and we will shine approximately 7 times this year. Improvement.


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My expectations for this team are at an all time low. Normally I am an optimistic "half full" type guy however, I see little hope for this season.

To much riding on too little experience.

When I look at the schedule it is a stretch to find a win. It would not surprise me if this team did not win a game.

But the NFL is based upon parity and it is really hard to go 0-16.

4-12 is about as good as it gets.

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Question for all you pessimistic types:

Say we do go 4-12. Would it still be possible for you to see some glimmer of hope? Or is 4-12 mean getting rid of everyone.

For example, say we go 4-12, but in our 12 losses, most of them we are competitive right to the end, but our inexperience and lack of talent at some key positions is the tipping point. Say we play all our games like we did against Pittsburgh last year where we're right in it. But, we lose because the other team is just better.

Would you be "satisfied" (or as "satisfied" as you can be with a 4-12 record)? Or is the only way we keep this FO and coaching staff is if we go to the playoffs?


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Quote:

Question for all you realists types:
fixed it for ya


Say we do go 4-12. Would it still be possible for you to see some glimmer of hope? Or is 4-12 mean getting rid of everyone.

For example, say we go 4-12, but in our 12 losses, most of them we are competitive right to the end, but our inexperience and lack of talent at some key positions is the tipping point. Say we play all our games like we did against Pittsburgh last year where we're right in it. But, we lose because the other team is just better.
Would you be "satisfied" (or as "satisfied" as you can be with a 4-12 record)? Or is the only way we keep this FO and coaching staff is if we go to the playoffs?






i think there is hope... for the first pick in the draft. The good thing is this team is getting loaded with talent. it's just not there this year. we need another year of drafting quality players and we will be there. I think we will keep them around one more year after this year and go from there. H&H will have 5 years at that point.


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Quote:

Say we do go 4-12. Would it still be possible for you to see some glimmer of hope? Or is 4-12 mean getting rid of everyone.




Depends on if the team looks better at the end than it probably will at the start. Improvement won't likely be realized in the win/loss column this year. However, the hope is we'll see some tangible progress by some of our key starters as the year goes on.

If we start out a disorganized mess and end the same way, I would expect changes at the top with new ownership.


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In my opinion, a 4 - 12 record will not be the primary reason for the blow up. The primary reason is simple.

We have a new owner. Jimmy Haslam.

The indications are that the new owner Jimmy Haslam is more hands on then Lerner was.

Jimmy Haslam will have his own people. His own people will have their own philosophies and will want to have their own people implementing those philosophies.

These new guys that come in may or may not be from the same coaching / management tree as MH.

MH record is not that great.

IMO, it's a foregone conclusion that we have a blow up at the end of the season.


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I still dont know how we can be worse than last year. Last year we got 4 wins. Ugly wins sure, but wins nonetheless...The NFL and sport dont care how you get the wins, or the losses. If theyre close, you can build, if not you need to improve. We had several close losses.




...and we could have and probably should have lost 3 of our 4 victories. Miami, Jacksonville and Seattle pretty much handed us those victories with idiotic mistakes. Our schedule looks to be much tougher this year.

Quote:

What I see is that theres no way for us to be worse. Rookies make rookie mistakes but talent makes plays. We have talent now on the roster, just young talent which will lead to mistakes, but to me talent always wins out.

Whether its raw, whether its inexperienced, it will shine, and we will shine approximately 7 times this year. Improvement.




I wish I could be that optimistic, but the rookie talent you speak of is as unproven as every other draft class we've had here. What's sadly funny is that the more folks argue that we'll have a better record this year, the more I believe we won't. This is our 14th season back, and I've seen it each year...expecting rookies to come in and have an immediate impact....and it's just not materialized with the exception of JT and Mack.


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Quote:

Question for all you pessimistic types:

Say we do go 4-12. Would it still be possible for you to see some glimmer of hope? Or is 4-12 mean getting rid of everyone.




I think the FO will be blown up if that happens because of the reason Saint stated. A new owner combined with two bad seasons record wise. But I don't really see the roster being blown up accept for those who simply bomb.

And with this many rookies, they won't all be winners.

My prediction was 5-11. And no, I don't think that "has to be" such a bad thing. That depends on one overriding factor for me.

I expect it to be ugly early. With this many rookies at skilled positions, there hasn't been a chance for things to gel. Say what you want about training camp and pre-season, but you don't see peope in real time game situations. The D's and O's are very vanilla in pre-season.

The course of the season will tell that tale. I expect things to be ugly early, I really do. But as the season progresses, I expect to see improvement and some consistancy. If we start out poorly and finish strong, it shows this team and talent is developing.

If that happens, I consider that improvement and a good sign of things to come. That's really all I have hope for and expect to see.


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I see 6 to 8 wins for this team as long as we don't sustain a ton of major injuries.

Offensively i think this will be one of our best teams but it will take time for the offense to gel with a new QB,RB,WR,RT and possibly a new TE. Weeden is a so much better QB then McCoy in that he can actually put the ball accurately down field. I know he didn't look all that pretty in preseason but i think most of the blame on that was poor blocking and miscommunications with the receivers which i think will get worked out in time. Add Richardson who i think is going to be a stud in this league and i think this will be a top 10 offense by the end of the season.

Defensively i think will be OK. I think our run defense will be better this year due to the young LBers flying to the ball but i worry about our pass rush, Sheard seems to be the only reliable pass rusher we have and opposing teams will double team him when possible to negate him. Hopefully Rucker and the DTs can generate some pass rush.

Special teams will continue to be solid for the Browns with Dawson and Hodges kicking the ball and Cribbs and Benjamin returning it. I'm not to worried about the blocked punts in the preseason as Shurmur had players in there who probably wouldn't play those positions just to see what they could do.

I do wonder why the Bills who went 6-10 last year seem to be getting some love this year when statistically they had one of the worst defenses in the league last year and their only upgrades were signing Mario Williams and drafting a CB and offensively they have a journeyman QB, one proven WR, and an Oline that was already a weakness and it lost its best player in Free Agency, yet people see them as playoff contenders and most experts pick the Browns to do worst then last year.


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If Richardson is healthy all or at least most of the year, then we have a far better RB than we had two years ago with Hillis running behind a better offensive line. He could run for 1,400 and 12 and be rookie of the year. When you can run, you can do a lot of things. When you can't, you can't do anything.
We'll have better receivers than we've had in years, and they're a good mix of big guys and burners. I think Weeden is better than McCoy (who I really like). I know he has a better arm, better line, better receivers and a better running back. This offense could surprise people.

The defense could take a step back, mainly because of injuries, suspensions and a lack of LB depth. But it could still be average, especially with an improved offense giving it time to rest.

Put me down as 6-10 with terrible luck; 8-8 with no luck and 9-7 with a little luck.

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Quote:

Question for all you pessimistic types:

Say we do go 4-12. Would it still be possible for you to see some glimmer of hope? Or is 4-12 mean getting rid of everyone.

For example, say we go 4-12, but in our 12 losses, most of them we are competitive right to the end, but our inexperience and lack of talent at some key positions is the tipping point. Say we play all our games like we did against Pittsburgh last year where we're right in it. But, we lose because the other team is just better.

Would you be "satisfied" (or as "satisfied" as you can be with a 4-12 record)? Or is the only way we keep this FO and coaching staff is if we go to the playoffs?




It's often difficult to apply logic to a situation where you're so heavily invested emotionally but another 4-12 season, even relatively competitive, I can't help but think my apathy is only going to deepen. I don't need the playoff's to feel we were successful but another 4-12 season is showing no improvement in the only column that matters. I want to see some improvement, something that shows we're headed in the right direction. If we are grading on a scale other than won/loss, we've already lost.


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I'm just tired of being 4-5 or whatever, and thin king theres a shot at ANYTHING...

And then losing the last 6-7 games... Every time...

Only 4 wins? Somebodies gone. I assume Shurmur.

Part of me thinks Haslem will coerce Holmgren down to the Sidelines for one last hoorah if that happens. I'm sure that would make Mary Kay sad, because then she wouldn't have anything to speculate about anymore...

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Part of me thinks Haslme will coerce Holmgren down to the Sidelines for one last hoorah if that happens. I'm sure that would make Mary Kay sad, because then she wouldn't have anything to speculate about anymore...




Well there's always the chance we would trade for Tebow.



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Quote:

Quote:

Part of me thinks Haslme will coerce Holmgren down to the Sidelines for one last hoorah if that happens. I'm sure that would make Mary Kay sad, because then she wouldn't have anything to speculate about anymore...




Well there's always the chance we would trade for Tebow.






Please don't give her any ideas...


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I was wondering if this post would make it's annual appearance.

I'll say it... this team will be downright AWFUL. The offense will not be much improved (mostly because 95% of the problems last year were play design, not execution). That being said, you start rookies and 2nd year guys all over the field without veteran leadership, bad results accumulate quickly.

Shurmur's Browns have no personality. No identity. They don't intimidate teams with physical play. They regularly commit atrocious numbers of penalties, including penalties at the worst possible times. As we witnessed in the preseason, this has not been cleaned up. It seems there is no one holding these players accountable for their mistakes.

And worse, last season we had just about the easiest schedule imaginable. Heck, the other 3 teams in our division all managed to pretty easily make the playoffs with our schedule last season. This year, the competition jumps up a notch. So even assuming the team will be better simply because of another year in Shurmur's system (I'm not convinced), the team is not better enough to overcome the more difficult schedule.

The optimistic best case for this team is probably 5 wins. The worst case and far from outside the realm of possibility is an 0-16 campaign. But I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they will face a bad back-up QB at some point this season and steal a win. Yep, 1-15.

At least the new regime will get a shot at Matt Barkley.


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The main problem I see with this team right now is injuries on the defense.

Phil Taylor is out half the season. Our linebackers are currently scrapped. Haden will be gone at some point. Other players like Rubin and Patterson have been nicked up.

On offense I really have no complaints. Weeden has the arm strength and aggression I want. Richardson is a monster. And the line is generally good. One of the guards stinking it up could be a legitimate problem that may need to be resolved next off season.

Right now we have a lot of young talent. I think we can be fairly certain we will have a top 10 run game (Assuming Richardson stays healthy). The passing game is a question mark. I am a huge fan of arm strength, and I have seen some pretty passes from Weeden so far. I do not know how well the passing game will operate.

I think injuries to an already limited LB core and losing Phil Taylor will cost this team some wins.

2013 will be much easier to predict as most of our offense is new and unpredictable.

I would say best case scenario this season is 8.8. Worst case 2.14, I expect around 5 wins. That will be an improvement. We basically have a very rough schedule this season.

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The last thing I want is to blow up the management of the team. I see no gains in constant change of organizational structure. This team will struggle though no doubt about that. This team has 15 rookies. That is hard to swallow and overcome in games.

That means 8 rookies who were not signed by any team came to the Browns and beat others out.

On top of that all 7 draft picks make the team. Plus many of these rookies are starting including the quarterback.

Number one thing that has to happen is for Weeden to show he is worth the investment. He has to perform like a first round selection. He must demonstrate growth over the course of the season.

Second the team although young must play with discipline and focus. Hopefully they play hard and keep the games fairly close. You can tell when a team is not well coached . That should not happen with the experience of this coaching staff.

Results are important but the teams youth and the schedule they play will work against them.

For me they need to improve over the season, fight to the end of every game. I will accept a poor season if I see true potential.

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The Browns will go 8-8 this year and will beat the Steelers twice. I bet a Steeler fan at work. If the Browns sweep then he has to wear my Browns jersey to work and visa versa. If there is a split then nobody wins (duh!) The first game is important.

I think the Browns are going to surprise and beat the Eagles in game 1.

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I've settled at 5 wins... I just don't feel in my gut that we will get more, but I do feel we could win a lot less than 5.

OFFENSE: We imported a lot of talent, and exported some dead weight. We have a 'core' now, and this season is all about seeing if that core has any ultimate potential. Weeden, Richardson, Gordon, Little, Benjamin, Jordan Cameron, these are all guys who will be looked upon to produce. If we can't put something on the field that resembles a valid NFL offense, then I don't even want to think about how Pat Shurmur will keep his job. Less than 14 PPG last season, and that needs to improve. IMO, Wins aren't the end-all-be-all. There's a bigger picture here, and if the signs don't point to that bigger picture then change could be on the horizon.

DEFENSE: The injury bug took a chainsaw to our depth chart, that and NFL suspensions. I think we've added some good talent here with Hughes/Winn on the DL, JMJ (hope his injury isn't as severe) Fort and Robinson give us depth we did not have last season at LB. Our secondary is solid, and I hope we can overcome the injuries. Any success we have this season, it will be on the defenses ability to keep games close.

OVERALL: We have a major youth overhaul, and 'ambitious' is a nice way of saying it's a gamble. Can Weeden/Richardson and company turn around a anemic offensive attack? Between growing pains, injuries on defense. I see 5 wins as a high estimate. We will win some games we probably shouldn't, lose some close games we should have won and overall, hopefully we will all agree the team is moving forward. IF it's not... we might be smacking our heads into the wall as Haslem introduces another regime change in Cleveland.

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I think we can split with Pitt, Sweep Cincy, but would get swept by Baltimore.

I think we can beat Buffalo, Indy, Oakland, KC, Washington, and Possibly Philly(It's game 1, no one knows anything) and NYG (Defending SB Champs Lose to us alot for some reason)

So that's 8 or 9 wins I think we could win...

I also think we could go 4-12...

But all this 1-15, 2-14 talk is ridiculous to me...


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15-1. We sit starters in Week 17, to get ready for a Super Bowl run.

Playoffs, our closest game is when we beat the Packers 38-10 to win the Super Bowl.

...then I wake up.



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We've already seen the Packers once; I doubt they'll score ten points on us.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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