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Oh I saw his struggles and am not trying to state they were not there. I am stating the kid is still developing in that Leaps n Bound stages of a raw talent. He looks good at his slot coverage...one can presume if (BIG IF) he continues his development he will become much better with his outside coverages...which is all I'm saying.

He has not peaked in his development.

JMHO


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I hope you're right, and I hope if he switches to outside, they at least put him in a coverage scheme that suits his strengths.


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If/when Skrine continues his development, he'll get praised for it. Until then, however, he is not an outside cover guy and can't be counted on as such.


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As long as you are consistent with that premise...I'll read some posts regarding the draft. I'm sure you are saying all this Prospects SUCK till they prove it to you

I guess that should be in purple...but look I'm not telling you to not have an opinion. I'm just stating facts about young players who are still developing. No where am I guaranteeing that he will make the transition with flying colors. I am just stating he is still developing. This is 2013 season - not 2012. What you just said if you re read your post is that YOUR MIND IS CLOSED...This is the way it is - you wish for me to agree with that...sorry no. That is reactionary. It still doesn't mean he is going to do well with outside coverage. But you are this is what I saw last year. End of story no Progress. I agree totally on what you saw...but I do KNOW AS A FACT PROSPECTS PROGRESS. That's all nothing less nothing more!


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He isn't a draft prospect, he's played in the NFL, and his play, thus far, is not up to snuff to play outside in man coverage in the NFL.

That's all there is to it. Could he turn out to be more? Sure, he could. He hasn't shown anything like that, yet, however.
Could he be like Bodden and excel on the outside in zone coverages? Absolutely, and we should get a good chance to see that this year.

And no, my mind is not closed, lol!


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Quote:

If you watch him cover some of the slot receivers who are smaller and more speedy, he did a good job last year.

However, when you see him going up against guys on the outside (when he tried to bump Calvin Johnson in last year's preseason is a prime example), he really struggles.




That comes from a lack of experience not a lack of talent.


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Don't know where I said he wasn't talented, bro...


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strong sarcasm...why I mentioned purple.

I get frustrated sometimes with negative posting on a player or whatever. I try to look at the possible glass half full n just don't SAY IT IS SO...but put some Football logic. I do know the youth "PROGRESS" actually all do but the leaps n bound progress is usually done the first 3 years. In Skrines case I've seen it and possibly because of his raw background is still in that Leaps n Bound stages. If he can progress from horrible to pretty good in slot coverage who is to say it won't happen as well for Outside coverage both press n zone. If Horton brings Zone I love it - cause it goes well with us bringing the pressure so that eyes are on the QB n can play the ball.

But I get frustrated cause not you but all in general who post negative (I don't class you as a guy always negative) you guys have all the win win n I wish I could have that.

I mean if you are correct...you of course get to say I AM CORRECT
But if you are wrong...you get to say - I LOVE IT THAT I'M WRONG n all don't you cause all are HAPPY. Me I put myself out there cause I'm that's how I do my Fan thing...I don't care to opine on the Negatives...I'm no fool I know the negatives but I want to look at my team especially in the off season with just what the positives can be. Me if I'm right all get into the rejoicing n who cares that I'm correct. But if I'm wrong...its bitterness cause we are losing n EO or Tab I remember you saying this n that n you Suck credibility for it.

Its like I feel its easy to be negative & too many take that road. Man you must be a therapist or something - I feel like I'm on a posting couch


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Heheh!

It isn't about having an opinion that is right or wrong... all of our opinions are just that, opinions.

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Its like I feel its easy to be negative & too many take that road.



Absolutely, I agree. In some situations though, what may be perceived as "negative" is really just being a realist... of course, that is also very subjective and only time will tell us if it is anything more than opinion

And I don't mean to sound negative, but I just don't currently see him being able to be a man-coverage kinda guy like Haden. I do think that he stands a chance of at least being serviceable in zone, but that's it... and I also really hope that I'm wrong and we actually have a diamond in the rough


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Tab, not trying to be confrontational...... But don't you feel it's realistic for fans who see things like "upside, potential" and every other possible slang for "maybe", to feel very much like you do in reagards to hearing this year in and year out without having a winning team?

At some point, we need to see something tangible or those same bullet points year in and year out get very old and stale.

I'll use the Lombardi example. Everyone can take a long look at his draft record everywhere he's been and have "good reason to realistically question his hire".

Yet when it's done, you're accused of being in love with the last regime, being against this FO or having some agenda. When the fact is, there's evidence in black and white to give it legitimate questions.

Since 1999, I have heard all of the positive talk year in and year out. It's gotten people nowhere but disappointed to this juncture.

It's like this entire "consensus" issue. Not everyone is going to agree on who to draft, or which FA to sign. This isn't a perfect world. So at some point, someone has to have the final say. That someone is Banner. It can be spun anyway someone wishes, but it's a corporate structure. I do think this FO did a good job selling this idea to the fan base, but it's not how corporations are ran.

I'm not trying to discourage people from having a positive attitude, but with all things being equal, I think you must admit on some level that trying to be realistic, verses negative or positive is not a bad thing.

And since 1999, fans have every right to be just as much or more frustrated by the positive diatribe year after year only to be disappointed, as anyone could have with negativity.

Because if you look at this teams record since we came back, I think it's far easier for fans to look at reality and confuse it with negativity than the other way around.


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So at some point, someone has to have the final say. That someone is Banner. It can be spun anyway someone wishes, but it's a corporate structure. I do think this FO did a good job selling this idea to the fan base, but it's not how corporations are ran.



How are corporations run then?


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Good post. I am on your side since every draft I want the best and look for upside, well it just don' happen like that. the Browns will have bust an Booms from the draft, but I like the route they are going as of date. Time will tell if that sticks. 1st round or even 7th you do not get a guarantee on how these players produce, it all falls on the players and how they adapt and deal with their role on the roster.

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With a decider! (love that Bushism)

Everyone answers to the CEO. He answers to the board. That's how corporations work. Done! Taadaa!


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Not confrontational... why you.... lol j/k

Quote:

I'll use the Lombardi example. Everyone can take a long look at his draft record everywhere he's been and have "good reason to realistically question his hire".




Not on this board at the time - but there I was when the move was being made posting every draft he was involved with looking at the first two rounds what I considered the key to be considered successful n having a healthy team weighing 5 years of the first two rounds clicking with the team. I am realistic. And when confronted I stated look - I don't like my impressions that I have of Banner nor Lombardi. I hate what we got until I see a PLAN in place then I will re-evaluate them.

Soon we hired Chud n the rest of our coaches, Had a FA period that a plan was told n we kept to it. Now the draft. Every step of the way I have been reinforced of the New Regime having a legit Positive to this team being successful!

What you are implying - I know you didn't say it but go re-read what you stated and even though you were very polite. Basically what you were saying is that if I am positive regardless of how football Logically I present it - I HAVE NO CREDIBILITY.

So if I am a positive poster I'm not Realistic, the negative posters have more credibility cause they are realistic!

Here is my none confrontational feelings on that. No one can argue the results.

I have been pretty consistent with one thought process. CONTINUITY. I haven't liked many of the Systems we have utilized in the past (personally) but I didn't care it wasn't about me. What I do know as somebody involved with football is PICK ANY SYSTEM n stick with it - improving, tweaking to individual talent on hand, mold it into a successful system. This has been our biggest failure as a team!

Our 2nd biggest failure simply put has been our drafted talent - we forever have been scrambling so that we go for too many High Risk picks to make up for the lack of Superstar talent that should have been here already. Also the simple fact we never procured our Franchise QB we did not have success.

So what I see a lot is Negative posting with 25% facts why how etc. being correct being considered REALISTIC cause the END RESULT has us in a negative in a lot of cases for ALL THE WRONG REASONS - but in general that poster is Credible

What most posters do not know is I don't like much of the stuff going on...even questioning the drafts...Remember one of my first threads on our Board in 01 (joined March 2001) regarding the 01 draft titled "Groundhog Day" oddly used by the media a lot over the years lol But criticizing Butch - for REDOING our draft of 2000.

Brown in 2000 Butch redoing to Warren in 2001 for the first.
Northcutt in 2000 Butch redoing to QM in 2001 for the 2nd.
Travis Prentice in 2000 Butch redoing to James Jackson in 2001 for the 3rd.

I was very critical of our draft...I was new to the board and instantly I was an accepted poster. But after being around for a while I saw too many negative posts n members would literally be depressed. So instead of staying with the critical end...I would step back n state, you know what if Butch/Savage/Mangini/Heckert/Lombardi are right. Why are they doing this what is the big picture? How can this work. I would debate it and so many posters whether on the board or via PM would thank me cause they didn't want to be depressed in the OFF SEASON...there was enough of that DURING THE SEASON.

But Diam did a great post (I probably argued with him a bit at the time but it was truth) we won't do much until we GET THE TALENT HERE. Our drafting was not that good and the constant change even if it wasn't in the HC every season. It seemed we were changing the OC or DC in between. We never had continuity.

Drafting very simply we were so bent in changing things to the better n in FAST mode we ignored the less sexy LOS n keyed on Impact players. Why I praise Heckert.

But 90% of my football logic was spot on but because our end result was Negative poster will point their finger n state NO CREDIBILITY. You know what If I cared what people thought of my football I would go along with the EASY way n post negative.

I think I have maintained my credibility simply cause my football logic IS SOUND. Things went wrong for a lot of reasons not many around the logic. Health little depth, no continuity new O new D talent lacking. NO QB!!!

Slowly at a snails pace we are getting out of Expansion...it should have been done the first two seasons but we blew all those picks they gave us for Long Term...why I will always HATE CLARK! We have been scrambling ever since.

I thought Mangini - started the change. I thought He went LONG TERM in his thought process of course having that OVER n DONE after 1 year. But the start was there. Heckert came on with the security of NO WAY he can get fired as Holmgren was the Czar set up. He went Long Term as well - drafting solid players even if they were not IMPACT guys. Taking care of the LOS - committing to the YOUTH even if we would struggle at first. Its a shame our O system would take so much continuity to be any good n I thought Shurmur just didn't have it as a good HC...he was not a super star but a HC in training. Then came the sell... No more job security and here we are.

With a very good FIRST TIME drafted Foundation to build on. Instead of the 5 year overhaul program we have been use to (NOBODY reached 5 years Four was the longest) we for the first time are on the NFL current norm of 3 year program due to the fact of having a foundation for the first time.

I am real with my outlook. I choose to possibly go with an unlikely RESULT cause I feel the FAN BASE including myself deserve the hope n logic of HOW THIS WILL WORK n We will enjoy the season. The odds of all those things falling in place are slim, so what it doesn't change my credibility. SO I DON'T REALLY CARE what people think...I mean I don't post to get accepted. I know if posters read everything I right they can read the writing in between. I have much less of an Ego thing as people accuse me of.

Also why my What I saw thread is widely accepted from negative n positive posters. Cause it is PURE WHAT I SAW...no speculation n the truth is there to see. A lot of posters think I refute anyone to post negative on what I saw. Never have I just don't want RANTS OF NEGATIVITY...I want descriptive actual accounts of the game if it happens to be negative so be it. As long as it is factual. Now I have written another book. Defending my positive posting all I can say is we are actually getting closer I have kept my rah rah down cause I can give a sigh of relief...we are very close!



I'm realistic even if I'M POSITIVE If my logic is wrong SHOW ME Debate me Discuss with me. What I abhor is posters who state I am a HOMER so ergo I am wrong...I think that is a cowards way of debating with me

JMHO


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Quote:

What I abhor is posters who state I am a HOMER so ergo I am wrong...I think that is a cowards way of debating with me






Oh, whatever, you're such a homer that you get author royalties from "Iliad" and the "Odyssey".





p.s. You're Wrong!


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j/c

Chuck Klosterman did an 'inside the Browns war room' piece for Grantland that's pretty insightful.

Profanity, so I can't post it, but it's worth looking up.

Apparently we had one deal in the works that would've sent our #6 for two future firsts, a 2013 second and a handful of later round picks.

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I just read it and its a good piece. Someone could probably post it if they masked the quotes of profanity. I'd do it but am on an iPad and am lazy right now.

It does confirm Mingo was the #1 guy on their board.

Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 05/09/13 03:01 PM.

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and here i thought i was going to get some work done this afternoon...

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It's a very long piece, but well written.


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Klosterman does a lot of good work.

IIRC, he used to work for the Akron Beacon-Journal.

He's not a native Clevelander, but he's spent enough time around the area to know it's sports fans.

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Quote:

I just read it and its a good piece. Someone could probably post it if they masked the quotes of profanity. I'd do it but am on an iPad and am lazy right now.

It does confirm Mingo was the #1 guy on their board.




It still can't be posted if it contains profanity. It can't be linked to if it contains profanity. However, if someone really wants to track down the article, it takes about 2 seconds going to the website that was mentioned.


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DC, everyone knows that someone has the final say. That not every every person contributing to an idea or policy has as much weight as some others.

There is a pecking order with the guy at the top having the final say. Let's face it, saying there will be a consensus for all picks isn't realistic.

It's a great PR move though.

I do feel this coaching staff is the best we've had so far. But in every business someone has final say. Not everyone agrees on anything very often.

I don't see that as being very complicated nor unrealistic what so ever.


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I'll make my reply simple and short.

You have posted relatively positive for many years. Our record indicates there wasn't much to be positive about.

Your opinions verses the results we have gotten are extremely far apart. To me, that sums it all up. Your optimistic posting verses the results we have seen.

And I have no problem with people being positive. But once again, it has shown to be quite incorrect since our return.

I'm simply stating that when you hear "rah, rah" all the time and see a total flop on the field, that's no less frustrating than seeing negative posting that often turns out to be quite accurate.

And continuity? That's a great thing if you have people in place who are capable of being successful at their jobs.

I don't feel that keeping RAC just for the sake of continuity would have helped us, do you? I don't think listing a host of QB's that have been here since 99 would have helped us either.

So I'm all about continuity but not just for the sake of continuity. The people actually have to have the capability to be successful and show growth that would indicate that before continuity can work.


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Yeah too bad life ain't that simple...that is like me saying...Pit you don't have a clue so anything you write is incorrect Your disgusting justification that I have no credibility was very nauseating to read. But I get it. And if you had some reading comprehension you would note that all that I discuss is not RAH RAH...I simply pose the plan.

Your rendition of Continuity again displays your clueless approach to what is REALITY.

Sorry to take the gloves off...but the door is now open - I will state what I actually think.

Continuity is the KEY. You just don't get it. If the coaches are not correct et al. That means you could have a GOOD TEAM but will not get far in the playoffs. Continuity of just about any competent NFL system should have you 8-8 or better unless you have critical Injuries. To state otherwise just says..."I GOT NO CLUE"

Positive n Logical football posts of what we could be if things work out right to the plan are not Rah Rah. Rah rah is where I post 16-0 in the Prediction thread. I don't post that as a reality fact that I wish to debate. Its Rah Rah. To subject all my post to be in that type of category...is Simply A COWARDS VIEW who just can't hold my jock...basically YOU

I cannot believe you wrote what you wrote. especially after I clearly explained myself for being positive - probably the most insulting post I have ever read regarding my football. So excuse me if I pick on your Lousy Football posting. Don't take it personal...ITS JUST REALITY.

You just don't get it. I don't predict anything I state where we can make things work within the plan. Again if the result is far from it. There are football reasons why that I'm willing to discuss - where I have been way off mark I have agreed n done my share of My Bads. But then you negative posters don't like listening to Reality - if posted you will state that its an Excuse.

So you consider a poster Throw Long more realistic than I. Cause at the end result he is closer than I. Makes sense n probably makes you feel relevant posting with dawgs who don't know squat about football. Then again you are Coward in football discussion. I post too positive so I am wrong in all that I post. Yeah great argument


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Yeah too bad life ain't that simple...that is like me saying...Pit you don't have a clue so anything you write is incorrect Your disgusting justification that I have no credibility was very nauseating to read. But I get it. And if you had some reading comprehension you would note that all that I discuss is not RAH RAH...I simply pose the plan.




No, not everything you post is like that and I don't believe I indicated it was.

Quote:

Your rendition of Continuity again displays your clueless approach to what is REALITY.




Not really. You don't continue an avenue of continuity if those in charge show they are not improving. Name one HC or GM we have had here to this point that has went on to do great things in the NFL?

My point was and is, you don't just continue on the same path if those in charge aren't growing and getting better. That isn't continuity at all. That's an exercise in futility.

Quote:

Continuity is the KEY. You just don't get it. If the coaches are not correct et al. That means you could have a GOOD TEAM but will not get far in the playoffs. Continuity of just about any competent NFL system should have you 8-8 or better unless you have critical Injuries. To state otherwise just says..."I GOT NO CLUE"




Well that's an odd thing Tab. Because you have spouted about continuity in the past, yet we have only had one winning season since 99. So who was it you were promoting to have continuity with exactly?

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Positive n Logical football posts of what we could be if things work out right to uhe plan are not Rah Rah. Rah rah is where I post 16-0 in the Prediction thread. I don't post that as a reality fact that I wish to debate. Its Rah Rah. To subject all my post to be in that type of category...is Simply A COWARDS VIEW who just can't hold my jock...basically YOU




You have a rather high opinion of yourself don't you? I guess now you're doing the Tab rah rah.



Yeah, I guess if you're going to be fooled yet again as to how "everything is going to go according to the plan", you could make an excuse as to it not being rah rah. Even though history has taught us over and over, that to believe everything will go according to the plan is very naïve thinking.

Quote:

I cannot believe you wrote what you wrote. especially after I clearly explained myself for being positive - probably the most insulting post I have ever read regarding my football. So excuse me if I pick on your Lousy Football posting. Don't take it personal...ITS JUST REALITY.




You have nothing to pick on. so far you've been posting as if everything is positive and you have pretty much been consistantly giddy about everything. Which makes your track record poor at best. I've read your posts for well over a decade, and for the most part, about all of your positive predictions have been shown to be consistently wrong.

So you go ahead and try pick on my lousy posting as you call it, while most already know your lousy predictions based on those rose colored glasses.

Quote:

You just don't get it. I don't predict anything I state where we can make things work within the plan. Again if the result is far from it. There are football reasons why that I'm willing to discuss - where I have been way off mark I have agreed n done my share of My Bads. But then you negative posters don't like listening to Reality - if posted you will state that its an Excuse.




The reality is our W/L record since 1999. Plain as day. And it's funny really. I have said positive things too. Just not all of the time. I guess since maybe I do sometimes question things and sometimes approve of things, that makes me a negative poster?

I'm not rah rah all of the time and I've watched a lot of "plans" different regimes try to sell us fail miserably. So sorry if I'm not feeling compelled into helping sell yet another "plan" quite yet. I can easily see how many times we've been fooled so far and every year people keep buying the same BS.

Quote:

So you consider a poster Throw Long more realistic than I. Cause at the end result he is closer than I. Makes sense n probably makes you feel relevant posting with dawgs who don't know squat about football.




I've debated football with facts for well over a decade and you know it. Right now you have no facts and neither do I. All we have is some plan somebody is trying to sell us. We have no idea if it will work or not. Just because I'm not buying into the latest, greatest story line, doesn't mean that you are right or wrong.

Quote:

Then again you are Coward in football discussion. I post too positive so I am wrong in all that I post. Yeah great argument




That was not even close to the point. The point was how you were "getting frustrated by negative posting". The fact is, ever since 99, negativity has been the reality, not the other way around.

I asked you if you didn't feel it was possible for people to get just as frustrated listening to positive posting when we keep losing year after year?

And it is! People keep trying to make everything sound peachy keen. Why yet again, the latest, greatest "plan" will somehow magicly work while all the other ones have failed so miserably.

All I was asking you to do, was to try to understand that it's no less frustrating losing year after year while hearing someone try to pretend everything is hunky dory.

If you wish to debate football, that's fine. But as of now, all that's really being debated is how things "might work". Or whether this FO will succeed or not. Whether this FO can turn things around.

None of it is fact based. None of it holds any merit. Once we see some signs of whether it will work or not, at that point we'll have something to really discuss.

But to call me a coward in football discussions? Have you lost your ever loving mind?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Legend
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Legend
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This was a good draft. Haden = perfect. Ward = good choice. Hardesty+ not bad choice the jury is still out, Colt not bad but he needs the right offense to make a difference. Lauvao has been a shininng star in this whole mess as he catches hell from the regular fan, but who gaines praise from anybody who pays attention to him on the field.


I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Hall of Famer
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Anytime you get 3 starters and a pro-bowler player from a draft, you take it.

It is rare in the NFL, go back and look at any teams draft and see how many times they hit or 3 players.


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Evaluating the 2010 Browns Draft

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