Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#932947 03/03/15 03:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 369
1st String
OP Offline
1st String
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 369

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/27/war-on-terror-coming-home_n_6770990.html




Chicago 'Black Site' 'Not First Time' Anti-Terror Tactics Allegedly Used On Americans
The Huffington Post | By Simon McCormack


The Guardian's bombshell about a secretive "black site" holding facility in Chicago where suspects are allegedly shackled, beaten and held for long periods of time without access to their lawyers, immediately sparked cries of alarm.

The practices reportedly taking place at the Chicago Police Department's Homan Square could be another sign that some of the same techniques used overseas in the War on Terror have crept into domestic policing practices.

The Guardian's investigation uncovered evidence of:
Keeping arrestees out of official booking databases.
Beating by police, resulting in head wounds.
Shackling for prolonged periods.
Denying attorneys access to the “secure” facility.
Holding people without legal counsel for between 12 and 24 hours, including people as young as 15.
At least one man was pronounced dead after he was found unresponsive inside an interview room at Homan Square.

NATO protester Brian Jacob Church told the Guardian that the facility was like a "domestic black site," referencing the CIA's network of secret prisons used to interrogate terror suspects overseas.

That's overselling it, according to Ezekiel Edwards, director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s Criminal Law Reform Project. But, Edwards told The Huffington Post, there are similarities between what the Guardian reported and practices used in the War on Terror.

"I am not certain that this terminology is appropriate, but I am certain that, if true, the practice of detaining people incommunicado before processing them for the purpose of interrogating them – whatever one wants to call Homan Square – is illegal," Edwards said in an email to HuffPost. "More broadly, this is not the first time that local policing may have taken a page from the War on Terror, or vice versa."

Edwards said, "The use of widespread electronic surveillance, militarized tactical policing and weaponry, sneak and peek searches to rummage through our homes, racial profiling, entrapment schemes using large sums of money to lure participants and where the government is the sole creator of the crime, and the unchecked power of prosecutors to use harsh sentencing laws to coerce cooperation and guilty pleas, are as familiar in the War on Drugs as in the War on Terror."

The Chicago Police Department released a statement to multiple media outlets strongly denying any wrongdoing.

"CPD abides by all laws, rules and guidelines pertaining to any interviews of suspects or witnesses, at Homan Square or any other CPD facility," the statement said. "If lawyers have a client detained at Homan Square, just like any other facility, they are allowed to speak to and visit them. It also houses CPD’s Evidence Recovered Property Section, where the public is able to claim inventoried property."

Reporter Spencer Ackerman, who authored the original Guardian story, fired back at CPD on Democracy Now.

"Notice all the things they don’t say. They don’t say when attorneys have the right to talk to their clients there," Ackerman said. "They never address at all the central question of someone being booked at Homan Square, of records being made available to the public, available to their lawyers and available to their families there."

CPD did not immediately respond to a request for comment from The Huffington Post.

Edwards said if the allegations made in the Guardian's report are true, they are unjustifiable.

"It appears that these are calculated efforts to hold people outside of the system – away from judges and lawyers – in order to interrogate and intimidate them," Edwards said. "There is no justification for such constitutionally offensive practices."


Just curious to see if anyone cares about the rule of law anymore. Anyone agree with this type of police activity?

Last edited by Victor_Von_Doom; 03/03/15 03:06 PM.
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
Likes: 10
D
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
D
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
Likes: 10
I guess not?? LOL

A couple things I find curious about this 'investigation'. The it hasn't been seriously picked up by any domestic media.. The GUardian is UK right?

Second, the ACLU guy didn't really seem to have any idea what it was all about either. He was just speculating using the article as his premise.. IF IT were true.

The author doesn't appear to dispute the PD's statement that the site is also where the public can pick up any property. Public access I believe is the antithesis of a "black site".

As for the other stuff? People being injured or in custody deaths are certainly things that need to be looked in to.

As for 'records'? I don't know how they are set up, but is it even a booking facility? If it isn't you wouldn't have booking records. As to other 'records' I guess I'd have to get an idea of what records they are looking for to comment on that.

Lack of lawyer access? Again that depends on what kind of facility it is. The other thing to consider is that according to your Miranda Rights, you have the right to have a lawyer present before answering any questions. This does not mean that you have the right to have an attorney present prior to being investigated. While you certainly have a right to refuse to answer questions, nothing says that the police have to ask you questions.

For example: I bring Victor Von Doom in for questioning about the disappearance of Sue Storm. You decide that you want to have your attorney present before I ask you anymore questions. At that point I can no longer ask you any questions in regards to what I am investigating you for. I can then do 1 of 3 things: 1) If I want to talk to you further I can give you a chance to get your attorney down here and possibly proceed with the interview after their arrival 2) I can let you go or 3) If I have developed enough probably cause for an arrest, I can arrest you right there and take you to jail. So long as I don't ask you any more questions I don't have to wait for you to get a hold of an attorney before you get locked up.


I don't know, I'm just not sure there's enough uncovered in this investigation that much of it makes any sense?


"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton

-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 51,487
Likes: 723
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 51,487
Likes: 723
it's been picked up by yahoo, MMSNBC, and even Fox, with regards to them having this. and there was already a thread on this board about it, but nobody really wanted to talk about it.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 369
1st String
OP Offline
1st String
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 369
It's funny what people on this board refuse to talk about. Perhaps they don't think subjects such as these affect them.

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,990
Likes: 9
R
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
R
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,990
Likes: 9
Do unto others as you would have done unto you. We do these things to "possible" terrorists and so now you have people willing to do them to us for the sake of the government. Not that shocking to me but makes me even more happy that I didn't move to Chicago.


You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,727
Likes: 924
Legend
Online
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,727
Likes: 924
Quote:
Do unto others as you would have done unto you. We do these things to "possible" terrorists and so now you have people willing to do them to us for the sake of the government.



There have been many times in these threads that we have found ourselves on opposite sides of a particular subject.

This is not one of those times.

I know you are a man of deep Christian faith... and order your steps in accordance to the Bible's teachings. I was raised in the church, but walk a slightly less devout path. However different our approaches to life may be, I find it remarkable (and important) that this particular aspect of human interaction is so apparent to both of us.

Violence begets violence.
Hate begets hate.
Mistrust begets mistrust.

...and all the while, it seems that We allow ourselves to forget that the opposite behaviors are subject to the same rule.


If a devout Christian and a practicing secularist can see these universal truths, why is it so hard for others to see the same thing?

____________

As to the thread's subject: perhaps it's the cynic in me, but if our national government can sponsor sites/ops such as these, it isn't a huge leap to believe that states and cities could do the same. I have no proof that such sites exist, nor am I even saying that they do... I'm really only saying that if one person could conceive of such a thing, others could too.

"Art Imitating Life?"

On NBC, there is a crime procedural drama called "Chicago PD." The main cast portrays an undercover Intelligence Unit that 'plays fast and loose' with the established Rules of Engagement regarding police behavior, as they fight the worst of the worst. In more than one episode, 'perps' have been taken to just such a Black Site... where they've been- shall we say, "encouraged" to give up their secrets and conspirators.

As a peace-loving citizen, do I want tough guys like these defending us against the thugs of this world? Yes.

As a moral, law-abiding citizen, do I want these guys breaking/bending the rules to do their jobs? Well- that's where the shades of gray get really murky.

Here's a philosophical question for anyone: If an undercover cop has to spend the bulk of his career in a sewer, doing sh!tty things to sh!tty people, how can he NOT become imbued with the stench of his working environment? At what point does he become the very kind of person he's sworn to fight? Would you feel comfortable with the idea of letting your kind, naive 15 year-old son ask that cop's sweet, innocent 14 year-old daughter out on a date? You know your son. You've met his paramour, and you like her.* Can you trust that her Dad sees your son in the same way that you see his daughter?

Human interaction is some messyazz bidniss, yo. The Human psyche wasn't designed to handle these 'gray areas' very well at all... and yet they pop up all the same. All the time.

Sometimes, I think that our more calculating nature has outpaced our moral/humanitarian evolution... and that our spiritual side needs to kick it into high gear to catch up.

Threads like these make me shake my head... and go to bed depressed about people in general.

But hey- I make 'pretty/artsy/sometimes esoteric stuff' for a living. What the hell do I know?

just thinking out loud tonight,
Clem



* Everyone knows that this couldn't possibly be a Real Life scenario- because ALL "PK's" (preacher's kids/policeman's kids) are emotionally-damaged social miscreants.... rofl


"too many notes, not enough music-"
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398
Likes: 280
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398
Likes: 280
Originally Posted By: Swish
it's been picked up by yahoo, MMSNBC, and even Fox, with regards to them having this. and there was already a thread on this board about it, but nobody really wanted to talk about it.

More than willing to talk about it, just understand that everything said has to start with "If..."

If this is true, everybody should lose their job and I mean everybody all the way up to Police Chief and maybe even the mayor. Why would they lose their job if it is decided they had no knowledge? I believe the NCAA calls it "lack of institutional control"... Those who DID know about it, they should go to jail.

If this is true, it doesn't surprise me that it happened in Chicago. That place has been the tip of the spear in being a political cesspool for decades. DC would probably be just as bad if not for the presence of the federal government.


yebat' Putin
DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Chicago PD Black Site

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5