Browns 2019 training camp preview: Analyzing the offensive line
Summer vacation keeps on chugging along for the Browns, but we're spending the weeks ahead of training camp preparing for endless sun rays and seas of brown and orange-clad fans as far as the eye can see through our much-needed sunglasses. Can you feel us wishing good weather into existence in Berea? Us neither (don't jinx it).
While we wait for the players to return and the ball boys to roll out the pigskins, we're previewing training camp by looking at each position. Today's group: offensive linemen.
THE OFFENSIVE LINEMEN Greg Robinson Joel Bitonio JC Tretter
Austin Corbett
Chris Hubbard
Kendall Lamm
Bryan Witzmann
Eric Kush
Kyle Kalis
Brad Seaton
Drew Forbes
Brian Fineanganofo
Ka'John Armstrong
Willie Wright
What we know: Four of the five starters from last year are back, bringing familiarity (an underrated detail) to the group. We know what we'll get out of Bitonio, a 2018 Pro Bowler and one of the league's premier interior linemen. Tretter should be expected to contribute similarly. Hubbard didn't knock anyone's socks off in 2018 but was steady in his first year with the Browns. And Robinson's insertion coincided with the Browns' offensive explosion. No matter his struggle-filled past, that wasn't simply a coincidence. We know this line can largely be counted on, and if Robinson matches last year's play, it could be a top 10 group in the NFL.
What we don't know: There's a big hole to fill at right guard, and we don't know who's going to do it. The general consensus was Corbett's mere presence on the roster as a former 33rd-overall pick would essentially fast-track him to the spot left vacant by the trade that sent Kevin Zeitler to New York, but that hasn't been the case. Corbett has had to battle with a surprise competitor in Kalis and free-agent acquisition Kush, as well as Forbes, a sixth-round rookie. It's very much an open competition heading into camp, so much so that Corbett has also seen reps at center in what could perhaps be a test of how the Browns could use him in the future. A lot of this doesn't matter all that much in the short-term, but finding a starter does matter. Line play is very much based on technique, but also inherently relies on physical activity. We'll get plenty of that when the pads come on in camp and should start to find some clarity along the way.
X-Factor: Tretter. This might be a bit of a surprise -- most would understandably pick Robinson -- but as an intelligent center, Tretter has a lot of responsibility on his shoulders to help whoever wins the right guard job to get acclimated quickly. Expectations are high for this team, meaning the adjustment period must be short for the new starter if the Browns want to get out to a fast start. Tretter's ability to call out protections and also assist his new mate on his right side could go a very long way toward making that acclimation much easier, which would only raise the ceiling for the Browns' offense.
The biggest number: 22. Baker Mayfield was sacked 22 times in his first seven weeks of the 2018 season. Unsurprisingly, the Browns won just two of those games. In his final seven games -- after Cleveland permanently inserted Robinson at left tackle -- he was sacked just three times. This number is the biggest number because keeping Mayfield upright is the line's utmost priority (followed by opening holes for the running backs). If Mayfield is pressured and hit too often, well, we know what will happen. Twenty-two sacks is an unacceptable mark for a seven-game stretch. That cannot happen in 2019.
Says it all: "It is all about versatility. We are trying to find out who has some versatility to them. There is a depth chart of course right now, but at the end of the day, we are trying to prepare all those guys just to compete. Sometimes when you prepare a guy, you have to give him reps, and then when we get back in the fall, we will compete and see who works. ... (Evaluating in pads) is the next step. That is what I was talking about preparing them to compete in training camp because we will have pads on in training camp. From a knowledge standpoint, they need to be prepared to do that so they can put their best foot forward. Then show me what they got. Show us. Show us what they have. You can only do that with pads on." – Freddie Kitchens on the battle for right guard
How many were kept on the initial 53-man roster last year?: 9
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
I liked the Kush signing because he brings versatility ... but I’m more concerned about our Tackles. We have to hope they can hold up
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
For the offensive line of the Browns to prove its stellar performance throughout the second half of the 2018 season wasn’t a fluke, a hole created in the offseason must be adequately filled.
The competition at right guard is wide open heading into training camp, which begins July 25. It’s one of the few legitimate battles for a starting job that will be waged this summer in Berea.
Right guard Kevin Zeitler played all 1,091 snaps for the Browns last season, but he’s gone. In 2018, Zeitler was ProFootballFocus.com’s sixth-ranked guard and had its No. 1 pass-blocking grade at the position, yet General Manager John Dorsey agreed in March to trade him to the New York Giants for defensive end Olivier Vernon.
The move made sense for Dorsey because he had 2018 second-round pick Austin Corbett in mind as Zeitler’s successor while striking the deal with Giants GM Dave Gettleman. Whether Corbett, last year’s 33rd overall selection, capitalizes on his opportunity remains to be seen.
Corbett’s stock as the favorite to replace Zeitler appeared to be extremely high at the time of the trade, but it became obvious in spring practices that Corbett is far from a lock. In organized team activities, Corbett and Kyle Kalis worked at first-team right guard, with Corbett toiling as the No. 2 center at times. In the team’s three-day mandatory minicamp, Corbett, Kalis and Eric Kush each spent a practice as the No. 1 right guard.
Corbett has never started an NFL regular-season game. Kalis started two of his four games with the Indianapolis Colts in 2017. He landed on the Browns’ practice squad last season before appearing in three games with them.
Dorsey bought insurance in the offseason, though, by signing Kush and Bryan Witzmann. Kush has started 12 of his 33 career games, including seven of his 15 last season with the Chicago Bears. Witzmann has started 20 of his career 37 games, including seven of his 10 last season with the Bears. When Dorsey was the GM of the Kansas City Chiefs, he drafted Kush in the fifth round in 2013. Dorsey and the Chiefs claimed Witzmann off waivers from the Dallas Cowboys in 2016.
The importance of the starting five offensive linemen answering the bell can’t be overstated. If the big men were to hold up their end of the bargain, Baker Mayfield’s chances of ascending into the NFL’s upper echelon of quarterbacks in his second season would dramatically increase.
Consider how last season played out.
According to press box totals, the Browns allowed 62 quarterback hits, including 33 sacks, in the first eight games, then surrendered just 11 quarterback hits, including five sacks, in the final eight games.
They went 2-5-1 in the first half of the season and 5-3 in the second half to finish 7-8-1.
The starting quarterback for the first three games, Tyrod Taylor absorbed 13 of those sacks. Mayfield took 25, but 20 of them came in his first 5½ games (remember, he entered regular-season action in Week 3 after Taylor suffered a concussion). The five sacks given up in the last eight games were the fewest in the NFL during that span.
The growth of Mayfield as a rookie and coach Freddie Kitchens becoming offensive coordinator at the season’s midpoint were key factors.
But the change at left tackle mattered as much as anything else.
Desmond Harrison was a project whose innate athletic ability persuaded the coaches to give him the starting nod at left tackle as a raw, undrafted rookie. But Harrison struggled to combat power pass-rush moves, and the offense suffered the consequences.
The Harrison experiment ended after eight games, when an illness forced his removal from the starting lineup. The Browns cut Harrison on June 5 after he failed to report to mandatory minicamp on time. The Arizona Cardinals claimed Harrison off waivers but cut him Wednesday after he had been charged with assaulting a woman in North Carolina.
Veteran Greg Robinson seized control of the starting left tackle job in Week 9 last season and never relinquished the role. He played well enough for Dorsey to sign him in February to a prove-it deal — a one-year, $7 million contract extension.
According to PFF, Robinson allowed one sack and zero quarterback hits last season in 311 pass-blocking snaps. One reason for trepidation, though, is Robinson was one of only two offensive tackles in the NFL who had double-digit penalties despite playing in fewer than 10 games.
Now Robinson is seeking consistency in another contract year. The second overall pick in 2014 failed to live up to his draft status while starting 42 of his 46 games with the Rams. He then registered six starts with the Lions until an ankle injury interfered, leading them to cut him in November 2017. Dorsey scooped him off the scrap heap last summer.
The other returning starters on the offensive line played every snap last season. They are Pro Bowl left guard Joel Bitonio, center JC Tretter and right tackle Chris Hubbard.
Tretter went the distance despite suffering a high-ankle sprain in Week 6 against the Los Angeles Chargers. He is entering the final season of the three-year, $16.75 million contract he signed in 2017 to join the Browns as an unrestricted free agent.
In Hubbard’s first season as a full-time starter, the former Pittsburgh Steelers utility man improved as the schedule unfolded by adjusting his technique while pass blocking. Like Robinson, Hubbard is seeking the level of consistency the Browns want and need from him this year.
The contingency plan at tackle is free-agent pickup Kendall Lamm. He started 24 of the 55 games in which he appeared with the Houston Texans, including 13 of his 15 at right tackle last season.
Although there are some question marks on the offensive line, the pieces are in place for it to flourish under new position coach James Campen, a longtime Green Bay assistant whose history with Dorsey traces back to their Packers playing days.
The Browns finished last season ranked second in PFF’s O-line power rankings and fourth in the website’s pass-blocking efficiency grades. Bitonio ranked fifth among guards and Tretter eighth among centers. Hubbard tied for 50th and Robinson was 63rd among qualifying tackles.
Zeitler is a significant loss. PFF’s preseason offensive line rankings reflect that, placing the Browns 20th among the NFL’s 32 teams. Still, the other four starters are back, and if they can pick up where they left off last season, Mayfield should be well protected.
I'm not quite sure how the author can make the claim Corbett isn't penciled in at RG. First the author says it's because he played both RG and C at OTA's. Then he says they were looking at versatility. I'm not sure how anyone would find versatility if they didn't move some people around.
The two ideas combined simply don't make sense.
Zeitler is gone and they didn't really sign any one else that seriously looks like a starting RG. There's a reason for that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I really hope he proves worthy enough to play ... a bit concerning he wasn’t ready yet in OTA’s, but he’s got a big 6 weeks ahead IMO
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
The offensive line is my biggest concern going into the season at this point. The only two guys we can fully rely on are Bitonio and Tretter. We have:
- An unknown in Corbett (if he actually starts, which I'm guessing he will) but if he doesn't everyone else is essentially an unknown as well.
- A left tackle in Robinson who performed admirably in the second half of the seaon. However, his sample size in the NFL is not consistent with what we saw last year and penalties were a bit of concern.
- Chris Hubbard was, IMO, the weakest link of a line last season but played better ( about average, IMO) later in the season.
- And although Bitonio and Tretter are the strongest pieces on the line going into the season, they are not without concerns from an injury perspective.
Poor line performace will obviously have a negative impact on Baker, Chubb, etc. I don't have the information in front of me or know if it improved as the season wore on for Mayfield but I seem to recall him holding on to the ball longer than desired at times. That, coupled with the line, might be an issue in 2019. I certainly hope Corbett can come in an shine but I think many are underestimating the loss of Zeitler.
I really hope he proves worthy enough to play ... a bit concerning he wasn’t ready yet in OTA’s, but he’s got a big 6 weeks ahead IMO
Who said he wasn't ready in OTA's? I heard one reporter claim that because he was moved around. That reporter claimed he wasn't ready.
Then, in the same article he claimed the coaching staff was looking at how versatile players on the OL were.
Just because the reporter couldn't put 2+2 together enough to understand that to find out how versatile your players are that you need to move them around has nothing to do with Corbett not being ready.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The OL is my biggest concern also ... its tied with LBers but this position is more important IMO ...
I disagree on Robinson though ... he committed like a hold a game average ... thats not good ... its really bad ... analytics says it is anyhow ... no .... ...
JMHO, you stated "nobody looks like a starting guard...please check out the pictures posted on CB physical conditioning test- Colbert's arms look SMALL, he doesn't look physically strong and Kush looks bigger/stronger...pictures 2/23. Tretter looks like he's got some guns.....pads on will tell us who wants it more, but looks leave me wondering about want to of Colbert.....GO Browns!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
Robinson’s holds were an issue .. he’s gotta bring that number down. Joe Thomas commented last year that his mechanics become slow/lazy at times
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Hope you're right, I could care less who starting right guard is- or any other position, just want them to be effective- finally a team worth screaming for....GO Browns!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
Oh, I'm not saying he's ready and will be good. I don't feel anyone really actually knows outside of possibly the coaching staff.
But here are a couple of things I do know. Dorsey seems to understand and address filling weaknesses. He moved Zeitler in a trade and made no serious signings along the OL. It seems to me that if he didn't feel he had an answer on the roster at the position, he would have at the very least have signed a journeyman G along the way. He has made some shot in the dark signings but nothing I would see as addressing a hole at the starting RG position.
So to me, Dorsey doing nothing at the RG position tells me something.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Good point Pit .. Dorsey found it necessary to improve the secondary and WR positions ... but left the OL literally alone (actually subtracted from it) ... gotta trust that
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Kyle Kalis had a ton of time to think on the long drive and plenty to ponder.
The smart, physical, weight lifting-loving offensive lineman who played at St. Edward High School had signed to the Browns’ practice squad Sept. 3, two days after being waived by Washington following the 2018 preseason. The return home flooded him with memories over the 350-plus miles.
“It was a super surreal feeling,” Kalis told The Chronicle-Telegram.
Before he had been offered scholarships to Ohio State and Michigan — he eventually switched his commitment from Columbus to Ann Arbor — his friends would let their minds wander years ahead to a dream scenario of Kalis playing with the Browns.
Imagination had become fact, with one sobering reality.
“My stepdad passed away a couple years ago, and he was a massive, massive Browns fan. He’s the one that kind of got me into it,” said Kalis, who’s competing for the starting right guard job in training camp. “I just wish he could’ve seen it, because as I was driving here, that’s all I was thinking about was him and my family. They were all calling me, going nuts. So it’s really cool.”
Bruce Schwarz, 60, had a heart attack on Valentine’s Day 2017 as Kalis was preparing to enter the draft.
“No one saw it coming. We thought he was completely healthy,” Kalis said. “It was super tough.”
Kalis’ father, Todd, played right guard in the NFL from 1988-95, appearing in 103 games with the Vikings, Steelers and Bengals. Kalis lived with his dad in Pittsburgh before moving back to Cleveland to live with his mom and Schwarz and attend St. Ed’s.
Schwarz spent his whole life in Northeast Ohio and his family has season tickets to the Browns and Indians. He wasn’t an athlete but had a profound impact on Kalis.
“Work ethic and the value of not losing your head,” said John Carroll coach Rick Finotti, who coached Kalis at St. Ed’s, became close with Schwarz and choked up talking about him. “Bruce was Kyle’s biggest fan. He just wanted to see Kyle succeed. He was fiercely loyal.
“He was so different from anybody else in Kyle’s life. He wasn’t talking about technique, he was talking about life.”
IN THE MIX
Kalis (6-foot-4, 306 pounds) thought he had made Washington’s roster but was summoned and cut. Once he cleared waivers, Browns general manager John Dorsey called and said he wanted him.
Kalis was with the Browns all last season but remained under the radar, especially for a local kid. He was promoted to the 53-man roster Dec. 1 and was active for three games, playing one snap on offense and 10 on special teams.
Kalis, who started two games for the Colts as an undrafted rookie in 2017, used the year in Cleveland to get comfortable within the organization and hopes that propels him to a much larger role this season.
Austin Corbett, the No. 33 pick in 2018, was the favorite to take the right guard spot after Kevin Zeitler was traded to the Giants in March for defensive end Olivier Vernon, but coach Freddie Kitchens reiterated Monday it’s an open competition and no one has seized the job. Kalis continues to join Corbett and veteran Eric Kush in a rotation with the first-team offense that started in the offseason.
“I’m just happy to see that my coaches see something in me,” Kalis said. “That’s a really encouraging sign to see that they trust me enough to put me out there. It’s just a matter of just trying to keep staying consistent and keeping my head in the books and keep coming to work every day and trying to get better at something.”
STRENGTH AND SMARTS
Even though the trade opened a starting spot, Kalis was sad to see Zeitler go. Kalis said they were like-minded and had bonded.
Anyone who’s spent time around Zeitler knows that means one thing.
“I very much enjoy working out,” Kalis said. “It’s definitely one of my hobbies away from football. I take a lot of pride in being fit and being strong and being functional.”
Kalis credits St. Ignatius graduate and former Browns lineman LeCharles Bentley, who runs a training facility in Arizona for linemen, for helping his development. Finotti said Kalis has always been at home surrounded by benches and barbells, remembering the “big redheaded kid” he noticed after getting the job at Ed’s.
“Once he gets in the weight room it’s his haven,” Finotti said. “All the stresses in life and BS, none of it mattered.
“I don’t know how many times Kyle missed a ride home so he could do extra sets. I’d drive him home to Westlake, or bring him home.”
That required a run to the grocery store for extra food and milk.
“He’s part of the family. Like a son,” Finotti said.
The work in the weight room transfers to the field.
“He’s a real strong guy, real strong, powerful punch and has all the tools,” center JC Tretter said last week.
“He’s an aggressive kid, plays with his feet in the ground and he brings energy,” new line coach James Campen said.
“Nasty, nasty player. Real physical player,” Finotti said. “He doesn’t look to block people, he looks to dominate people.”
On the line, brawn is useless without brains. Kalis has both.
“Works hard, studies, learns, he does everything the right way,” Tretter said.
“I kinda view myself as a little bit like a sponge,” Kalis said. “I have a good awareness of what’s happening on the field and being able to make adjustments. I feel like deep down I’m just a ballplayer.”
ROOTS RUN DEEP
He likely gets that from his dad. Todd spent the first five seasons of his career with the Vikings, starting 45 games. He started 11 games each in single seasons with the Steelers and Bengals.
Finotti said Todd didn’t pressure Kalis to get a scholarship or try for the NFL but was always there to help.
“Preparation, guidance, motivation,” Finotti said. “He was a calming force in that regard.
“Kyle loves the game and doesn’t feel the pressure. He doesn’t look at it like a job. I attribute that to his dad.”
Kalis’ future with the Browns is uncertain, so he and fiancé Alyssa are renting a house on the West Side. It has a fenced-in yard perfect for his pair of chocolate Labradors, Cooper and Tucker, and is close to Whiskey Island for fishing.
Finotti knows how much it would mean to Kalis, and those closest to him, if he could settle in and succeed with the Browns.
“It goes back to Kyle being such a loyal friend and a great guy,” he said. “You walk into our house, my wife picked up a big Cleveland Browns surfboard and it’s hanging in the garage next to the TV. My son has a Browns chair.
Offensive Lineman Greg Robinson addresses the media following the Brown's July 31st, 2019 training camp practice. He discusses the challenges of facing Myles Garrett every day in practice does for his preparation and how his confidence has grown since last year.
Browns OT Greg Robinson making the most out of DE Myles Garrett’s elite skillset
Greg Robinson would be the first to admit he hasn’t appeared to be the strongest offensive lineman six days into Browns training camp.
The 2014 second-overall draft pick is hoping to solidify his role as the starting left tackle after he played the final eight games with the Browns a season ago. Training camp this season has likely been one of the toughest of Robinson’s five-year career, but he deserves some slack.
That’s because Robinson has mostly lined up against defensive end Myles Garrett, who’s arguably been the best Browns player thus far. Garrett’s elite acceleration and speedy instincts have been quite a challenge for Robinson, and they likely will be for every offensive lineman unfortunate enough to play opposite Garrett all season.
Even though Garrett — who led the Browns with 13.5 sacks in 2018 — has forced his way around Robinson more often than he’d like, Robinson wouldn’t want to practice against anyone else.
“(Garrett) has that initial snap off the ball, and if your technique is bad or if you take a false step, you basically lost,” Robinson said. “I couldn't ask for a better situation. I feel like it's only going to prepare me for a real game and live situations. I don't feel like I can get that work in anywhere else."
Robinson took over starting left tackle duties for the Browns in Week 9 of 2018 after he dealt with inconsistencies in previous stints with the Los Angeles Rams and Detroit Lions. He held the starting role for the rest of the season, and general manager John Dorsey rewarded Robinson’s strong finish with a one-year deal.
At 26 years old, Robinson has ample time to prove his best football is yet to come. He wants to make the most of the short-term deal and cash in for a larger contract next season.
Robinson thinks practicing against Garrett will help him reach that. It’s better for Robinson to make a wrong step in practice and allow Garrett into the backfield when he’s not allowed to tackle quarterback Baker Mayfield.
Mistakes like those in real games won’t help the Browns improve from their 38 sacks allowed last season. Robinson normally knows immediately from the snap when Garrett will move around him, but when the raw talent of Garrett mystifies Robinson into a broken play, he’ll always check back with Garrett and see where he slipped up.
"If he beats me, nine times out of 10 I know what I did wrong before he tells me,” Robinson said. “I can honestly take a step, and I know when I'm beat, but we communicate a lot, and I feel like that's something that will make us better."
Time will tell if Robinson’s daily battles with Garrett will unleash the talent scouts raved about when he led Auburn’s offensive line six years ago. The Browns think it will, and head coach Freddie Kitchens won’t fault Robinson too often for allowing a Pro Bowl player to reach the backfield as frequently as Garrett.
That’s actually Kitchens’ expectations for Garrett. It’s not a knock on Robinson at all.
“I think Myles is a pretty good player, and I think Greg is a pretty good player,” Kitchens said. “I think that is a good competition. When Myles is in the backfield, I would say he is supposed to be there, and that is where I want him most of the game.”
After an up-and-down NFL career, Robinson just wants to put his best foot forward. Garrett is helping him do that — both on the field and from a mental standpoint.
That’s why Robinson feels like Cleveland is the perfect spot. He can’t control Garrett’s talent, but he can control how it will make him better.
“You got to be on your 'A' game every day," Robinson said. “I feel like this is the best work I can get.”
BEREA, Ohio — Drew Forbes calls his wife Emily once a day from Browns training camp, usually at night when practice and meetings are done. They usually catch up on the day’s practice or discuss Luna, their Australian Shepherd mix—regular couple discussions. But in the last week, their daily phone calls have become dress rehearsals.
“Arf arf,” Drew barks into his phone. “X gon give it to ya F--- wait for you to get it on your own X gon deliver to ya”
One day during training camp the rookie offensive lineman will be called on to rap in front of the entire team. It’s a beloved Browns rookie ritual, and Drew, the sleeper prospect who we profiled in our “Prospect X” series last spring, was assigned the song “X Gon’ Give It to Ya” by DMX. The nickname has stuck.
“I am not going to get myself in trouble with the O-line room, but X lives on in the O-line room,” Browns offensive line coach James Campen says, cryptically.
After an extremely warm practice Monday morning, Drew elaborated on Campen’s ambiguity: The O-line room assigned Forbes a series of X-themed PowerPoint presentations to present, like a fourth grader delivering a book report. He chose five topics to educate his O-line teammates on:
Xzibit (the rapper) Generation X D-Generation X (the pro wrestling group) Malcolm X X-Men (specifically, Charles Xavier, the founder of the X-Men)
Drew applied the same intense focus he has for football to his X-themed presentations. “He was overly prepared,” Campen says.
“The longest presentation was 10 slides,” says Drew. “A lot of Wikipedia and Googling.”
Because he doesn’t know which day the veterans will call on him to perform the DMX rap, Drew calls Emily each night to help him memorize his lines and get the sporadic rhythm and timing down. The perfectionist in Drew never rests, even off the field.
So far in Browns camp, Forbes has taken reps with the second, third and fourth string, at left tackle and right guard. Campen says it’s too early to settle on a specific position for Forbes, and they want him to be versatile so he can backup multiple spots on the line. The Browns have a position battle for starting right guard, but Forbes isn’t in the mix for a starting role as of now. At left tackle, Forbes’s college position and his dream role in the NFL, the Browns hope Greg Robinson’s serviceable play down the stretch in 2018 was not a fluke. The former No. 2 overall pick, discarded by the Rams and the Lions previously, had a rough day against Myles Garrett in Monday’s practice.
For Forbes, the most surprising thing about the NFL is how much fun this Browns team has while putting in work. “I hear a lot of people talking about camp from other teams and how much of a drag it is,” Forbes says. “But I'm loving this. I thought it was going to be—I don't want to say hell, but I am really having fun getting to play football.”
And for the record, Prospect X is no longer starstruck by Baker Mayfield. “It’s normal now,” he says. “It’s just work.”
Hopefully he has found s home in Cleveland... you know what I'm sayin'?
Last edited by Dawgs4Life; 07/31/1909:28 PM.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
BEREA, Ohio -- Thursday's training camp session gave Browns fans a glimpse at just how special this offense can be. When Baker Mayfield is connecting with Jarvis Landry, Rashard Higgins, and Odell Beckham Jr., the group has a feeling of invincibility.
You can see the look the players get on their faces. The body language changes, the atmosphere lifts, and the entire offense is raised.
Mayfield hit Beckham on a dig route in an 11-on-11 session, and the group looked unstoppable. It has that vibe. Then, on the next snap, right guard Austin Corbett let his man cross his face and the pressure forced Mayfield into a poor throw.
The reminder was there once again.
No matter how much skill position talent the Browns have, they will be relying heavily on this offensive line to give Mayfield the time to throw to open receivers who are some of the NFL's best weapons.
NO CLEAR LEADER The right guard rotation has been taking place since minicamp. Austin Corbett works with the first team one day, Eric Kush the next, then Kyle Kalis on the third day.
The team wants one of the linemen to stand out and earn that job. That has yet to be the case.
Kitchens was asked about the status of the right guard job earlier in the week, specifically if he noticed anyone gaining an advantage. "No. There is not.” He then continued.
“I wish one was, but I want them all three to compete. They have all had some good plays. They have all had some bad plays. Under no circumstances are we ready to name the starting guard.”
WHO WINS THE JOB The outlook remains uncertain. All three players have shown quality reps, but with too many mistakes.
Joel Bitonio says all three have the ability.
"They just want the best guy there, and they feel like there are a few guys who have the ability to start at that position," he said, "so they are going to try and work it and put the best guy there and make them earn it."
Opportunity is there every day. The issue is the lack of consistency.
Playing offensive line in the NFL is about consistency. The more you can avoid mistakes and allow your running backs and quarterback to do their jobs, the better you are. The Browns need the one player who can avoid those mistakes.
SCOUTING REPORTS Although it's a challenge to get a feel for the three players from the sideline, watching drill work and 1-on-1s can allow for some insights into what the player can be, and where they struggle or thrive.
Corbett plays with a strong base and athleticism, but he lacks the consistency in his punch and ability to steer opposing linemen -- an essential skill whether it's helping form the pocket, or handle angles in the run game.
Kush seems to have the ability, but his mental makeup comes with question marks. Several times during camp Kitchens has had to yell at him about mental mistakes, including penalties and missed assignments. Those things linger in a coach's mind.
Kalis is likely the strongest of the three players but his balance is an issue. Too often he lunges or takes the incorrect angle and it forces his feet to catch up before they should. When defenders have been able to make him work off his strong base, he doesn't have the lateral agility to get where he needs to go.
FINAL THOUGHTS In all likelihood Corbett remains the front-runner. He has been the most consistent of three, and his position with the franchise has the most invested.
Veterans like Bitonio know there is still plenty of time, however.
"Greg (Robinson) kind of took it over and proved that in eight games last year that he could be a left tackle when he is motivated, thinking and doing the right things," Bitonio said. "That is kind of where we are at in that situation.”
Mayfield echoed the same sentiment.
"Greg (Robinson) did not play until whatever week it was last year," said the QB. "We just want to have consistency, being on the same page. ... Whatever guy is going to be the most physical and get his job done and be the best fit for us up front is going to win that job. We have a great offensive line coach (James Campen), and we are grinding right now. We are trusting that competition will work itself out.”
This situation will be solved in the preseason. The winner will get in-game opportunities with varying schemes and challenges.
The Browns made it work with a questionable offensive line in 2018. They will be looking to do the same again at right guard. Time is on their side, but the pressure is still there.
Kitchens and James Campen know they have to get this decision right.
I liked that article. It had some good information about the strengths and weaknesses of each guy. I prefer that to the BS so many other journalists put out there. Who wrote it?
I love Dorsey, but I am beginning to wonder if trading Zeitler for Vernon was a good move. I have to say that I really don't know that much about Vernon, though.
I love Dorsey, but I am beginning to wonder if trading Zeitler for Vernon was a good move. I have to say that I really don't know that much about Vernon, though.
I am second guessing as well. There was a ton of value on the edge this off-season. Players like Ziggy Ansah, Cam Wake, Michael Bennett, Robert Quinn, Clay Matthews, and Justin Houston all signed for less than we are paying Vernon this year.
I liked that article. It had some good information about the strengths and weaknesses of each guy. I prefer that to the BS so many other journalists put out there. Who wrote it?
I love Dorsey, but I am beginning to wonder if trading Zeitler for Vernon was a good move. I have to say that I really don't know that much about Vernon, though.
They kind of rolled it in to one deal, but I understand.
I know the majority thinking in LT is the premium OL position, and it was in the day of the lead footed QB. Well, those guys are about done.
To me, setting a strong front 3 is just as important, if not more than protecting the edge. If you can stonewall the interior, the QB can step up a few feet and that puts the OT's back in perfect position and wrecks the DE's angle..
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Why can't we voice our opinion. You voice you opinion when you talk about how great we are. What's the difference? Are we only allowed to post positive posts on here?
The two most important positions on the line are LT and RG and we are uncertain on both. You could throw an uncertainty at RT into the mix as well.
I am hoping that we get surprising growth from someone or Dorsey pulls something out of his hat before game 1, but o-line is probably our biggest weakness in my opinion.
Before judging about a trade seems to me we need to see them play?
bone...I agree...we have to see how the players involved in the various personnel moves actually play in a real football games before we judge the players or the management responsible for making a trade.
I'm not about to begin second guessing Dorsey and the trades he made based on the first week of practices in pads.
I'm sorry if my position might offend some...but it just seems to be the right thing to do.
I doubt it offends anyone. The problem is that it seems some take offense if we voice an alternative opinion. As I said before, there are plenty of posts saying how great we will be this year. Y'all aren't waiting to see how they play in those discussions....LOL....
What do u expect bro .... of course were optimistic and expect are new additions who were all very good - great players prior to this year to perform well .... we’ve been BRUTAL for years and now we have REALISTIC OPTIMISM as opposed to the pie in the sky not based in reality optimism we’ve had every other TC/Pre-season ... actually not we, pretty much he rest of rthe board not named Pitt and a few others ... mac may be in that group also ... its a REAL SMALL GROUP that’s for sure ...
U and I have been ripped on this board at least every season I’ve been around since u joined the board ... and u joined very early on ... last year was the first time we split .. and ironically i got ripped for that cause everyone had been burned so much in the past they couldn’t see that our talent was severely upgraded .... i thought i was in the twilight zone at times last TC season ... *L* ...
i remember last TC season joking that i was incredibly optimistic and i thought the most games we’d win was 6 ... i predicted not even 500 and was optimistic and looking forward to the season .. HOW SAD IS THAT ... *L* ..
We need to wait and see how Corbett is ... we need to wait and see if Bake improves or regress (with the skill position players we have that would be almost hard to do) ... but i’m not sure why we have to wait to see OBJ or Vernon in a game to know there gonna perform well and do their jobs at a high level ... why would they not?
I understand about being concerned about the OL ... i know i am ... i understand injuries happen ... but bro ... if were not gonna be optimistic now ... when the heck will we ever be able to be optimistic ... ... and u may or may not remember this as i haven’t said in many years ... when i got railed on from basically day 1 on this board for my take on the Don and being “pessimistic”every year i’d Tell people i’m One of the most optimistic people you’ll ever meet they just need to give me a reason to be optimistic ... well that days here bro ... WOOOOOHOOOOO ...
DISCLAIMER for the menZas ... VERS IS OPTIMISTIC ... i believe he’s just being cautious and playing “devil’s advocate” sort a speak ... just my opinion, i do not want to speak for Vers ... i’m sure he will correct me if I’m wrong ... *L* ... and then there’s me who has decided to take the governor off and just go HOG WILD WITH OPTIMISM ... if things don’t work out at least i’ll have enjoyed this part of the season ...
The two most important positions on the line are LT and RG and we are uncertain on both. You could throw an uncertainty at RT into the mix as well.
I am hoping that we get surprising growth from someone or Dorsey pulls something out of his hat before game 1, but o-line is probably our biggest weakness in my opinion.
What makes you say RG is the 2nd most important? I'd say C because of line calls, snaps, and most of the time the fastest route to the QB.
I was at Camp yesterday and must admit I was in awe and worried at how often the Defense were in our backfield. On both rotations with 1st and 2nds there were several plays where the runner had no chance or the QBs had to get rid of it or would have been sacked.
Now,I see that as a potential positive as it will help our Oline improve as there will be few Defenses as stacked and as lethal across the board as ours. But, it also proves we have work to do before Sept.8.
I am going to today's O&B scrimmage as it will/should flow more like a game it should give me more insight into how our line (on both sides) stack up and perform.
Actually its LT and then RT as Edge rushers are coming from both sides now a days.
Then its Center and then LG and Last but not least is RG.
Most of this is predicated on the talent needed to play these positions on a high level. The skill set needed and the rarity of that skill set.
Diam...so only you special negative posters are real and carry any weight.
I've take a lot of Homer crap the last 5 years so don't pretend that you negative REALISTIC Posters take all the heat...lol
As for being realistic.
I immediately stated negative things about Corbett when we draft him. I don't like us drafting an OL at the top of the 2nd round and do not have a specific position in mind for them I don't get it. You draft somebody that high I would think that you know exactly where he will play and the impact he will have. We drafted him before Bitonio, Schwartz, We knew exactly where these guys were going to be playing.
Of course when I did I pretty much was told to Shut up by posters and wait and see.
I am just as real as anyone. But for the most part as fans we need HOPE...we need to hear some REAL FOOTBALL Logic on why if all the planets align we could WIN I gave those possible scenarios never really coming to fruition. Obviously without a Franchise QB you have NO HOPE! But I say you all in the past took the easy way out and now you paint it that you were going against the grain and toughed it out...lol Sorry I remember it differently. It took guts to state we were going to win.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Actually its LT and then RT as Edge rushers are coming from both sides now a days.
Then its Center and then LG and Last but not least is RG.
Aren’t you literally saying that RG is the least important?
Not at all...I will spell it out for you as I know a message board can be difficult.
Each and EVERY OLman is just as important as the other. Its a unit.
What I did was break it down to "SKILL SET" needed to play that specific position.
RG because of the skill set needed to play it. We have MORE POSSIBLE CANDIDATES to man that position. Its all about the "RARITY" of the skill sets needed to be above average.
If the rarity is lower than others you have MORE CANDIDATES to choose from.
Hopefully I explained it so that you understand what I'm saying.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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