DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Greg Robinson may be benched

Browns LT Greg Robinson has either already been benched or is in serious jeopardy of it, source says

Oct 16, 2019

Cleveland.com

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com


BEREA, Ohio — Browns starting left tackle Greg Robinson has already been benched or is in serious jeopardy of it, a league source told cleveland.com on Wednesday.

Robinson, who’s grading out better this season than he did last year, declined to talk when approached at his locker on Wednesday. He won’t be available again until next week, when the Browns return from their bye week and start preparing for their Oct. 27 game against the 6-0 Patriots.

When the Browns return from the bye, there’s a decent chance Robinson will be replaced by someone else on the Browns’ roster, possibly backup tackle Kendall Lamm. The Browns are also contemplating replacing right guard Eric Kush, possibly with Wyatt Teller.

Browns GM John Dorsey also admitted on Wednesday that he’s had “a few conversations” with Redskins president Bruce Allen about trading for seven-time Pro Bowl left tackle Trent Williams, who’s holding out and disgruntled. Allen has said he has no plans to trade Williams anytime soon, and that still seems to be the case.

“It takes two to tango,’’ said Dorsey.

Dorsey says he’s had a few conversations with Redskins’ Bruce Allen, obviously about Trent Williams

Still, Dorsey made it clear he’s not happy with Robinson, who’s playing on a one-year, $6.4 million ‘prove-it’ deal.

“I would like Greg to be more consistent,’’ Dorsey said. “Just be more consistent as a football player.’’

Robinson has improved from the 64th-best tackle according to profootballfocus.com last season to No. 43 this year. He’s given up only one sack this season, and two hits. He’s tied for 41st in the NFL this season with 10 pressures, and has allowed seven hurries.

But he’s also blocking for struggling second-year quarterback in Baker Mayfield, who’s tied for third NFL in holding onto the ball at 2.9 seconds, according to profootballfocus.com. Still, against the Seahawks, Mayfield didn’t get sacked or hit once, except for when he scrambled for a first down in the third quarter.

Robinson is also part of a run-blocking effort that has enabled Nick Chubb to climb to No. 2 in the NFL with 607 yards. But he’s also been flagged for five penalties (a sixth was declined) and was ejected from the season opener vs. Tennessee.

“For every one of them, not only [Robinson], just the heightened awareness, surroundings, what’s going on within a defensive structure and seeing things quicker, reaction,’’ said offensive line coach James Campen. “I think for the whole, entire group, if we can get that going, we’re going to cover up a lot of things.’’

Campen doesn’t buy into the QB holding the ball too long theory when it comes to linemen.

“If we’re going by stopwatch, you’re asking the wrong person,’’ he said. “Because I don’t believe in stopwatches, I think it’s a bunch of hogwash. I think you protect as long as it takes him to throw the damn ball. End of discussion. Period. You block until as much time as he needs to throw the ball. I’ve always believed that and I will not stop teaching that.’’

While some felt that Robinson’s holding call on Mayfield’s last drive against the Seahawks was an unnecessary flag, Campen didn’t absolve Robinson. It happened on the second play of the final drive, and knocked the Browns back to the 15. Mayfield was intercepted two plays later.

“Certainly no one feels worse about it than Greg, and it’s something that you have to increase your awareness,’’ said Campen. “Penalties and those things, let’s don’t put somebody to make it a judgment error. Let’s don’t put ourselves in position even to have something like that come up. And whether it’s at the end of the game or the beginning, it makes no sense. So it’s an easy fix, I mean, drop your outside hand and let’s go. Let’s don’t put them in the position to make calls on our behalf. Do what we’re supposed to do and things will work out.’’

Freddie Kitchens also cited that holding call several times after the loss, and Dorsey brought up Robinson getting ejected from the opener for kicking Titans safety Kenny Vaccaro in the head, which Robinson said was inadvertent. Dorsey mentioned it in the context of a lack of continuity on the line, which has hurt Mayfield, who’s tumbled to 33rd in the NFL with a 66.0 rating.

“If you remember, all of the sudden, Greg gets removed from a game and all of the sudden you have to rotate the tackles and all of the sudden another tackle plays hurt and then you have to play rotating tackles again,’’ he said. “So there’s got to be a cohesiveness with those five guys on a consistent basis and they haven’t been in unity here together and being able to operate as one and that’s what you want your offensive line to do on a week to week basis is be together with five guys working together.”

When they return from the bye, it could be a different five guys.


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/10...ource-says.html

It may be either:

Forbes time
Williams time

The article mentions Kendall Lamm as the possible replacement.

Yeah I know, I was just thinking about Forbes close to returning too

So a few things... I'm no Robinson fan and he's not good but this feels like a bit of scape goat sitch to be pinning it all on him. Also, it's great to highlight your weaknesses and make necessary changes WHEN you have a viable alternative but wouldn't they have used that viable alternative if was already on the roster? Lol, I guess we'll fiind out. Last thing, why are we reading this from Mary Kay? This feels very old Browns. How about just make the switch if you need to and not throw a player under the bus publicly? I'm sure he's doing the best job he can even if it's not good enough. That kind of stuff shoots a hole in the bottom of your boat.

Mary Kay drives me nuts when she tells us what to think about a topic before providing the quote. Those quotes can be interpreted in different ways, but of course, the drama queen has to put the worst possible spin on it that there is.

Also, I am very tired of this false narrative that the OL is playing poorly. I knew it was coming, but it still irritates me.

She's always stirring up trouble.

Forbes can't come back until week eight. He's also a sixth round rookie from a small school. Not a great look.

Kendall Lamm has been at best average over the course of his career.

Is the team scapegoating Greg Robinson? His play has not been great but he's been fine. Really weird.

Our OL is a freaking Greek Tragedy.

AND the national media pretty much looks to her as the guiding narrative for the team. I often see her headlines almost verbatim in national headlines. She's got a click-bait agenda and the way she rakes the muck is frankly bad for the team. I felt like a lot of the needless off-season hype/noise in the national media was spewing from her. I can't stand her.

I'm not MKC fan (I literally have her blocked on Twitter so I don't see her nonsense) but this is the first line of the article, "Browns starting left tackle Greg Robinson has already been benched or is in serious jeopardy of it, a league source told cleveland.com on Wednesday." That's straight to the point.

Mary Kay Cabot doesn't work for the team. Her job is to get clicks. She's literally doing her job.

I dont know much about Lamm and didn’t pay attention much when he played, so I’m pretty ignorant. But week 8 isn’t that far away lol

Might be the Browns "astroturfing" in advance of a possibly unpopular trade for Williams (giving up a #1 and possibly more)?

Could be the case too

Right. I was just pointing out that it'd be weird to bench your starter, wait a week, then start a different guy.

If this story is true I think it'd be more likely that someone outside the organization replaces Greg Robinson. Moving Eric Kush to left tackle does not seem wise. I don't know enough about Wyatt Teller to speak on that.

Kendall Lamm was on the Texans his whole career before this year. He was a spot starter until last year when he almost got DeShaun Watson killed about a dozen times.

haha so Lamm seems like a very qualified candidate then

Honest question. Do you really not know which quotes I was speaking of or do you just want to fight w/me? I am hoping it is the former because I don't want to fight w/you, so I was speaking of the quotes from Dorsey and our OL coach. I will provide one of the quotes w/her evaluation given before the quote as an example of what I am talking about.



I think that quote can be interpreted in varying degrees of criticism. I am not positive that Dorsey "made it clear that he's not happy with Robinson."

I know how to freaking read. I have an advanced degree in English. I don't need some dumb-ass reporter to interpret quotes for me. Also, I am almost positive I know what she is up to. She is using language and semantics to convince her readers of something that may or may not be the truth.

I guarantee a lot of people are going to read that article and say things to their family, friends, colleagues, etc that "Dorsey said he is not happy w/Robinson."

Dorsey may not be happy w/Robinson, but that quote was manipulated by MKC.

Well, I certainly don't think this is the best OL we could put on the field, that's for damn sure. They may not be terrible, but they are far from great, middle of the road gets you nowhere, actually middle of the road gets you run over. lol

I still believe the Zeitler for Vernon trade is Dorsey's only real blunder, as Vernon has yet to produce as a pass rusher

All I can say, is that I'm sure Dorsey now has OL high on his list in the off season, either FA, or more likely, the draft.

Well put. I don’t think it’s necessarily a negative thing that he was quoted with that statement ... I mean, it’s pretty common sense. What’s he going to say: “He’s playing well!”

He said the same about Hubbard and our defense

I am not really defending Lamm because I don't know much about him, but Watson held the ball much too long and Bill O'Brien put his qb in some risky situations.

Vernon has not produced sacks. He has been pretty good.

My problem with the Zeitler trade isn't Olivier Vernon, it is that there were a bunch of veteran pass rushers available in free agency that we could have signed and kept Zeitler.

It boils down to Corbett. The team thought he could play. He couldn't.

Vernon may be good with run support, but Dorsey brought him in as a pass rusher, I'd gladly give Vernon back to the Giants for Zeitler. lol You are definitely right about Corbett, I hope Dorsey picks OL a bit better in the future.

Sorry for being cranky w/you. I was just irritated by MKC trying to manipulate her readers. I just have never been a fan of that type of writing.

I remember years ago, and I won't mention the qbs or the writer, but in the newspaper, the reporter would write things like "Blank led his team downfield for a TD. He fired a strike to blank on 2 and 10. He zipped a pass to blank for another first down." Etc, etc. When he would talk about the other qb, he would say things like "Blank threw up a prayer that was answered by a great catch by blank." Or, "Blank was aided by great playcalling and playing against an inferior defense." Etc, etc. I remember thinking his analysis was way off on the adjectives that he chose. It bothered me.

I get all the click bait thing of today, but I still feel that anyone who writes for public consumption has the responsibility of being honest and not trying to deceive others.

Anyway...........sorry for being cranky w/you.

Dorsey suggested a couple times that he wanted our OLine to play more consistent and he referenced Greg and Chris. Clearly, those who make the big decisions in the building think the OLine are not playing as well as they could or they would like.

In the Baker thread, you said something about people assigning blame when things aren't going well, even though I made it clear that there was plenty of blame to go around. So, may I ask you why won't you assign any blame to Baker but have zero problem assigning blame to the OL?

I will also add this..........I wonder who has better analytical ratings? The OL or Baker?

You are a good friend of mine and I respect your football takes, but bro.........this stuff works both ways.

People say stuff like "you hate Baker," as a defense for him. How many people say things like "you hate Robinson," as a defense for him?

Sorry bro..............I just came from reading a post from sourpuss and I feel like one now. I'll be over it in a minute or two...

First I thought our oline played better against Seattle. I also feel they need help. I don't care much for anaylitics. Numbers can be manipulated many ways to prove a point. I prefer to trust my eyes.
I think our our play calling needs to improve. We have no offensive idenity. Our offensive schemes put pressure on the oline to play outside of their strengths.
Baker needs to be more decisive in his throws and make better decisions.
Inspite of all this Chubb has managed to play well.
I try not to read much of what MKC writes. She wants clicks and will manipulate words as much as anaylitcts people do numbers.

I don't want to put words into your mouth, but are you claiming the analytical sites are purposely inflating our OL grades and decreasing Baker's?

No doubt. Everyone needs to improve their play.

Out of curiosity, I looked to see how PFF has graded our o-line and Baker overall to date. Clearly, there's room for improvement all the way around.

The Player Grading Scale:
100-90 Elite
89-85 Pro Bowler
84-70 Starter
69-60 Backup
59-0 Replaceable

2019 Baker Mayfield: 73.7
2019 Greg Robinson: 67.8
2019 Joel Bitonio: 81.3
2019 J.C. Tretter: 70.1
2019 Eric Kush: 48.0
2019 Chris Hubbard: 52.2


https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/baker-mayfield/46518
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/greg-robinson/8637
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/joel-bitonio/8670
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/eric-kush/7952
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/chris-hubbard/8051

Thanks for this information. I was wrong. Everything I had read previously was that the OL was being graded higher than Baker. But, this info contradicts that. Interesting...

Hey Milk, do you have access to our OL's pass blocking grades and then compare them to Baker's grades?

Browns roster PFF grades for week 6 only.....

Kush surprises me. I really didn't think he was playing that bad.

He's not. I know quite a bit about OL play and in my mind, Kush might be playing better than any of them. Including Bitonio. That's close, but the dude is playing very well. In my opinion.

I would still like to see the season grades on the OL and Baker. Last time I looked the OL was 3rd in positive blocking and Baker was 3rd from the bottom in terms of holding the ball.

I do not.

That's not what I am saying. I said I go by what I see on the field versus what analylitics show.
I thought the oline played well against Seattle while Baker was too inconsistant with his passes.
I also think with Baker struggling this year Freddie needs to rely more on our run game and less on Baker in empty backfield sets. At one point in the Seattle game with a nice lead we were throwing way too much with an erractic QB instead of relying on running the ball.
I feel giving Baker more play action throws will help both him and our oline.

Campen's a hard man.

1) I don't have any documentation or video to support this, but just from memory, it seems like the Browns are routinely lining a TE next to Robinson. I don't think his ranking reflects the amount of help he's getting.

2) With the same caveat, I feel like Hubbard is even worse.

3) I suspect that if they replace Robinson, they should at least consider moving him to RT to replace Hubbard.