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Eat your broccoli or I'll force you to
single choice
Votes accepted starting: 12/01/20 04:11 PM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

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With the topic of vaccines being right around the corner, I'm curious to know how you Dawgs feel about whether or not it should be mandatory or optional. While there's a lot of hope, I think there's also been a lot of skepticism ranging from standard anti-vaxx folks to those for whom it matters under which political group is in power when it's released. If you choose Option 3 I'd be interested in what your line would be.


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Mandatory.

For the same reasons that we have laws for other things such as seatbelts, speed limits, etc.

The safety data has panned out much like the other standard vaccines.

If it’s not mandatory, the virus will continue to mutate and it will be a constant problem.

Let’s base our laws and mandates around sound scientific and medical evidence.

Please don’t reply to this with slippery slope fallacies.

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I'm sure the Communists will support 100% voluntary compliance.

It's none of your business whether it's voluntary or forced, they clearly don't have anything of free will being tolerated in the plans.

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Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
I'm sure the Communists will support 100% voluntary compliance.

It's none of your business whether it's voluntary or forced, they clearly don't have anything of free will being tolerated in the plans.


I actually agree with you on this thumbsup


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It's impossible to know the long term effects when trials only started relatively recently.

I'm not entirely anti-vax, but I'm extremely skeptical of anything
(modern/US) pharmaceutical related, especially anything rushed under special circumstances.

I don't plan on taking the vaccine any time soon. I'll just keep avoiding people.


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Mandatory for some, optional for most. Healthcare workers, school teachers, sports leagues, some retailers, college students(?), etc. I'll let those industry owners decide.

I have a feeling ~35% of Americans would get it tomorrow if possible, ~35% would never get it and the other 30% is on the fence, but will eventually get it once it's confirmed to not make you blind. That's damn near the 70% herd immunity threshold. And I'd imagine it'll be inside every yearly flu shot going forward too.


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Originally Posted By: Bull_Dawg
It's impossible to know the long term effects when trials only started relatively recently.


When I read this, I take it like you think there's a 50/50 shot a negative side effect will hit you (or everyone). I'm speaking out my butt here, but I'd imagine the odds are more like 1-10% with everything we already know about side effects and vaccines. And that's not even talking about mild or medium side effects versus something major.

There will likely be someone that has a bad reaction to a covid vaccine, but one bad reaction out of millions of doses shouldn't make tons of Americans avoid the vaccine. If that were the case, nobody would ever be vaccinated at all. Nothing is 100% perfect. Heck, read the bottle of your basic Tylenol. Bad crap can happen, it's insanely rare, but it can. Doesn't mean Tylenol is dangerous or risky. And yes, I know Tylenol has been around for decades, so we know about it, but this vaccine wasn't cooked up by a guy in his garage. These same companies develop medicines and vaccines all the time. They're insanely smart and tons of other people will be peer reviewing their work. There's a chance something could go wrong, but LOTS of eyes are on this. I'm confident (for the most part).

And I don't mean any disrespect. I've heard others say the same thing on Facebook and I wonder the deeper meaning. Do they really distrust modern medicine that much?


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Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
I'm sure the Communists will support 100% voluntary compliance.

It's none of your business whether it's voluntary or forced, they clearly don't have anything of free will being tolerated in the plans.


Just like we don't allow your free will to murder anyone... critical thinking is a myth on the right.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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When I say long term, I mean more delayed reactions. It may help with the virus now, but none of the COVID vaccines have been around long enough to know what effects might show up 1, 5, 10, etc years down the road.

I'm talking something along these lines:
link


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If that happens, then in 5 years we'll be seeing commercials like "if you or a loved one took the covid 19 vaccine, you may be entitled to financial compensation."


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I work in healthcare and will most likely get it as soon as it's available... but I think it should be voluntary... I don't like the idea of the government telling me I have to put something in my body... should be my choice...


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Too Late, Nov 3, 2020 the bill of rights was confirmed to not be acknowledged, just turn a blind eye to it.

Wonder about the common sense of injecting into a body that hopes to hang around 98.6 degreees, a substance that can't be transported any warmer than negative 97 degrees
so roughly 100 degrees below zero, way beyond freezing.

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Vaccines don’t work like that, Bull.

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Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
Too Late, Nov 3, 2020 the bill of rights was confirmed to not be acknowledged, just turn a blind eye to it.

Wonder about the common sense of injecting into a body that hopes to hang around 98.6 degreees, a substance that can't be transported any warmer than negative 97 degrees
so roughly 100 degrees below zero, way beyond freezing.



In my research on the Pfizer vaccine I found out that the vaccine must be kept at those extremely low temps during transport. The boxes of vials can then be handed off to nursing homes and such for use. At this point the vials can be stored for up to 5 days at normal freezer temperatures. So a nursing home would have five days to utilize the vaccine out of their freezer. Inoculating their residents and staff within that timeframe would be easy.
All current vaccines, such as the flu vaccine, are kept refrigerator or freezer stored. So there’s really no difference to the receiver of said inoculation.


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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Mandatory.

For the same reasons that we have laws for other things such as seatbelts, speed limits, etc.

The safety data has panned out much like the other standard vaccines.

If it’s not mandatory, the virus will continue to mutate and it will be a constant problem.

Let’s base our laws and mandates around sound scientific and medical evidence.

Please don’t reply to this with slippery slope fallacies.


You are aware that NOT all of the evidence is in yet, right? There is a reason why the companies are applying for emergency authorization to distribute the vaccine....

The one company (don't remember which one... I believe it's the one that's the easiest of the 3 to manufacture and distribute) has some serious issues with how they've conducted their latest trial and are assembling their data. I'm not saying there's any shadiness going on... I'm saying they're rushing/shortcutting the safety processes to get this new type of vaccine, developed using new development methods. I don't doubt their intentions... we all want this vaccine behind us. I think the maiden voyage of mRNA vaccines shouldn't be firedrilled through the process. Too much newness that needs to be verified as safe and effective.


As to the original question, I don't see why this vaccine (especially as relatively unproven as it is), should be any more mandatory as others. I think the effort should be put towards making it as accessible as possible while also ensuring it has been safely developed and safely manufactured and distributed.


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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Vaccines don’t work like that, Bull.


Did you ever take the anthrax vaccine? I was ordered to, and the aftereffects from that are part of my hesitancy.

I'd like to at least wait to see which of the competing vaccines proves best. If COVID was more likely to kill me (and/or people in general), it might be a different story. I'll continue to avoid people.


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I should've also added, as context, that I'll be getting the vaccine sooner rather than later. I won't be elbowing my way to the front of the line, but I'll be in those first lines.

As with most things, it's a risk-reward thing. With us finding out we'll be expecting another family member around the middle of the year, that shifts the risk-reward analysis a bit.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Faucci, spit. was on the news,

"americans need to realize that getting vaccinated is the key to getting back to norma... to somewhat close to normal."
It was accompanied by someone saying the phrase, that faucci added, (someone added) Americans should be "rolling up their sleeves" to get vaccinated, as it's a path back to normal.

So. I present my very relavant, very accurate imo, and poignant political newspaper add type political cartoon, comic, on the subject.
(Beause when in school around 11 years of age, the Nazi Holocaust survivors of the time, spoke to our schools,
and the Nazi Holocaust survivors warned us to not let this happen again,
and the Nazi Holocause survivors showed us movies which showed the death camps, the work camps, the still photos of the people, emaciated and dying that were met when the allies troops got control of the places these camps were.

And they told us of how the trains to the death camps were told to the folks getting on the trains, the lie that getting on the train would take them to a shower to clean up, or that they used ice cream truck music to lie to the people getting on that they,
well the general lies that they were going to a place where they would be helped, not killed.

And in those movies / still pictures were the words on the gates above the entrance to the courtyard in the camp, the same words. So.

ON one side of the political comic, the left side, is Faucci and this news update

Faucci "Vaccine is the key to getting back to norma.. somewhat normal"
other news man, "Americans must roll up their sleeves to get vaccinated"

and then on the other side of the political newspaper comic, the other half.

Show barely alive, dying, emaciated people from the Nazi death camps and the BIG SIGN over the top with the words from that sign.
"Work Makes Free"

And I don't know anybody, that can convince me, that this comic is not true, because the lies, the outright lies from the false results of Nov. 3. 2020, to start,

to all the other lies, there is absolutely noting that can be trusted coming from, ...them.

This is the near future, not some coo koo, Waco, fiction, crazy theory,
no.
it's clear, it's present, it's here,
near future,
just waiting, can't be stopped any longer. frown

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You need help.


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Originally Posted By: jaybird
I don't like the idea of the government telling me I have to put something in my body... should be my choice...


This.

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You all need to listen.

Just because you think you are on their side, do you think they won't come also for you.

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Mandatory.

For the same reasons that we have laws for other things such as seatbelts, speed limits, etc.



They can make those mandates because driving is a privilege.
Being alive is not a privilege and you cannot put mandates on someone's body simply for being alive in this country. The Constitution prevents this. The government is not omnipotent and does not have the authority to do this.


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How do you feel about abortion? Are you in-favor of some mandates rather than others?

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You could ask yourself the same thing.

As for me, the answer is no.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Everyone knows the story, of North Korea, they bring a couple of people who allegedly talked to someone from the west, or used a telephone.

and they bring them into a football stadium and make others sit in the stadium so it's full, and then they execute the people who used the telephone or talked to someone from the west; in front of the crowd. / . Everyone knows that story.

Today in the USA.
The story is that former presidents are going to, Biden, Bush, whomever, are going to get injected with the new covid vaccine, live on television, for all the millions of people across the country to view.

Boy it seems like living in the USA is more like living in North Korea with each passing day. Meaning, I see a lot of similarities between the two things I described.

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So correct. Killing people in a public spectacle that are trying to live a ‘normal’ life under a totalitarian dictatorship run by a psychopath is JUST LIKE some former elected presidents taking a vaccine on television to try to ease the fears of a bunch of undereducated people in the US populace.

I mean, mirror image right?!


Again. You need help.


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I guess both are political theatre, but, yeah, Throw's getting pretty far out there.


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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
How do you feel about abortion? Are you in-favor of some mandates rather than others?


I have no opinion on it, and it's above my pay grade.
I am in favor of no mandates that attempt to infringe upon any constitutional right. There is no law higher than the constitution. Period. I give not one damn for anyone's morals, concerns, or wants if they do not jive with the Constitution.


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Is spreading a virus that has killed over 280,000 Americana a persons "right"?


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Is spreading a virus that has killed over 280,000 Americana a persons "right"?


You have to catch it to spread it. Is it the government's right to impose its will on people's bodies for things that they might do?

Making it a requirement for people in certain positions or if you want to do certain things is different than making it blanket mandatory.


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I'm not sure what part of asymptomatic people can't comprehend. That and the fact you can actually carry and spread the virus for a week to ten days with no symptoms. Lame excuses why we shouldn't do everything possible to stop the spread are just that. Lame excuses.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I'm not sure what part of asymptomatic people can't comprehend. That and the fact you can actually carry and spread the virus for a week to ten days with no symptoms. Lame excuses why we shouldn't do everything possible to stop the spread are just that. Lame excuses.


If you avoid other people, you can't catch it from or give it to anyone else.

"Everything possible" is a stupid phrase. We should use a reasoned response, not some knee jerk over reaction that has unintended consequences that people are too scared to stop and take the time to think about.

If you want to trust the Trump-neutered (leashed, brow-beaten; pick your adjective du jour) FDA and the Martin Shkreli's of the world that are responding to a panicking public, more power to you. I'd prefer to play it smart and get more outside information on the different competing vaccines before getting ahead of ourselves and talking about making it mandatory. Still take precautions-social distance, wear masks, etc. Roll the vaccine out to critical groups (once deemed safe and effective through the standard process) and re-evaluate how people respond outside of a limited trial environment.

Someone asked earlier if people trust modern medicine. Some people will trust anyone (i.e, people believe Trump.) Some people won't trust anyone (me, particularly when large sums of money are involved [Moderna getting 1.5 billion dollars to produce the vaccine for example Link .]) I worry about rushing and cutting corners in an attempt to capture that kind of influx of capital by pharmaceutical companies. There are good people in medicine, but I'm not sure Shkreli isn't more the rule than the exception at the financial top. Profit-motivated medicine is a recipe for bad things to happen.


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It has been brought up the difference between a right and a privilege. Yet that doesn't apply when one thinks about it.

The second amendment states plainly the right to own and bear arms. Firing a weapon by all accounts is a right. Yet most cities and locations have restrictions on where you are permitted to fire your weapon. Not because you are going to shoot someone. But because someone is far more likely to get shot by a stray bullet in congested areas. This is simply one example of where a right you have is restricted for the common good of the overall population. So it's strictly based on what "might or could" happen.

I'm not a fan of for profit medicine either. Time and time again it's been proven to anyone willing to keep an open mind that countries in Europe have a much better medical system than we do by spending a fraction of the amount per patient. But even then they must negotiate with the for profit pharmaceutical industry. That can't be avoided anywhere.

That's why I would only listen to medical experts who have nothing financial to gain as to the safety and efficiency of a vaccine.


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Originally Posted By: jaybird
I work in healthcare and will most likely get it as soon as it's available... but I think it should be voluntary... I don't like the idea of the government telling me I have to put something in my body... should be my choice...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single mention of this being mandatory from the federal government. Sure, private employers can mandate a vaccine, and they've been doing it for decades, but employees can petition to avoid it (medical conditions and religious reasons). I'm sure we'll hear about nurse A, teacher B and bus driver C refusing the vaccine, but again, this has been upheld in court tons of times. If your employer demands it, you get it or else.

Now, how many employers will demand it is another topic. I'm sure they'll offer incentives before making it mandatory, but that depends on the industry. I could see a wide mandate across the healthcare industry (I know we have some members in that line of work, so I'll let them comment/confirm).

Me, I'm getting it the first day I can. I'm already pumping my body with something way more toxic than this vaccine. This would be the least of my concern.


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What are you pumping your body with?

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Just responding in general...

If you eat ocean going Salmon a couple times a year you’re ingesting more mercury than will be in any vaccine.
If you smoke cigarettes but refuse the vaccine for chemical reasons you’re logically flawed.
I rinsed/cleaned car parts for my old man in acetone and other solvents as a kid. I’ll get cancer from that before a typical vaccine will kill me.
If you eat smoked meats more than once or twice a year you’re taking in more known carcinogens than any vaccine.
If you live under or around high power tension lines you’re more at risk from that than any vaccine.


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Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg

If you eat smoked meats more than once or twice a year you’re taking in more known carcinogens than any vaccine.



STOP YELLING AT ME!




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Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg

If you eat smoked meats more than once or twice a year you’re taking in more known carcinogens than any vaccine.



STOP YELLING AT ME!

:-p


Oh. Believe me. I’m a dead man early because of my love of smoked meats. I’ve accepted it. Much like I’ll accept a vaccine.


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Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
What are you pumping your body with?


I have ulcerative colitis. I'm taking remicade to suppress my immune system to save my colon. Anyone watching those UC commercials have heard the short and long term side effects and risks. It's worth it right now, but we'll see where I am 5-10 years from now.


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