offensive line, return game and mini-camp -- Terry Pluto (photos)


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By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
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on May 23, 2015 at 9:18 AM, updated May 23, 2015 at 2:27 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- In the first round of the NFL Draft, Browns General Manager Ray Farmer took Cameron Erving at No. 19. Erving is capable of playing anywhere on the offensive line. He has a chance to win the starting right tackle job from Mitchell Schwartz.

Or he could be the right guard, making John Greco the top substitute on the offensive line.

At the very least, there should be no repeat of the Browns using three different centers trying to replace injured center Alex Mack -- as happened last season.

Farmer also believes tackle/guard Michael Bowie could be a major factor.

Here's what ESPN's Terry Blount wrote when Bowie was cut during the 2014 training camp by Seattle:

"Bowie started eight games (in 2013) as a rookie, forced to step in when right tackle Breno Giacomini was injured. It was a bit of a baptism by fire for Bowie, taking his lumps against some of the best defensive ends in the NFL.

"But Giacomini signed with the New York Jets and Bowie was expected to compete with rookie Justin Britt for the starting job at right tackle. That didn't happen. Bowie wasn't in shape and reinjured his shoulder on the first day of camp. The Seahawks signed veteran tackle Eric Winston last week, who came in ready to play, in great shape and able to show what he could do immediately. That meant the end for Bowie."

The Browns picked up Bowie, who spent all of 2014 recovering from his shoulder injury.

In 2014, the same Seahawks decided not to sign Paul McQuistan. The Browns signed him to a one-year deal. He started one game at guard when Greco moved to center for the injured Mack. McQuistan played only 121 snaps.

The Browns had four linemen who played all 1,078 snaps: Joe Thomas, Joel Bitonio, Schwartz and Greco.

But when Mack was injured, they couldn't find another lineman to do at least an acceptable job. They went through Ryan Seymour, Nick McDonald and McQuistan.

McQuistan started 40 games for Seattle between 2011-13, but it's obvious the Seahawks thought the veteran was done -- and that's why they let him go. They were right.

Bowie is different because he's only 23. The question is if he will stay in shape and realize the opportunity to revive his career.

The Browns also believe practice squad player Vinston Painter has potential.

So the addition of Erving (a prime prospect), Bowie (who started eight games for Seattle) and Painter will bolster the line -- along with the return of a healthy of Mack. Remember at the end of season, Mack has the option to become a free agent. Schwartz also will be a free agent. So the Browns need depth for 2016.

ABOUT TRAVIS BENJAMIN

Special teams coach Chris Tabor certainly knows how to deliver a vote of confidence. Asked about the Browns dismal punt return situation in 2014 -- and the struggles of Travis Benjamin -- Tabor said: "I expect him to be great."

If this press conference had occurred before the 2014 season, then it would be easier to take Tabor's comments seriously. In 2013, Benjamin had an 11.7 punt return average, including one for a touchdown. In 2012, he had only three chances to return punts -- and ran one back for a 93-yard touchdown.

Yes, Benjamin had "great" moments.

But not last year.

His 8.5 average return was respectable. But he became timid, often letting punts sail over his head or bounce in front of him -- not even wanting to risk a fair catch. The Browns pulled him in favor of veteran safety Jim Leonard, who basically was a fair-catch machine.

Benjamin also had a hard time judging those punts in the cold Lake Erie winds of Browns Stadium.

The Browns ranked No. 28 in punt returns.

Tabor believes Benjamin coming back from ACL knee surgery (October, 2013) was a factor. The man they call "Rabbit" wasn't fully healthy but had a few good games as a receiver. Tabor also suggested that Benjamin being more a part of the passing game may have negatively impacted his punt returns.

Benjamin caught 18 passes for a 17.4 yards per catch average. He played only 36 percent of the snaps, so I'm not buying that reasoning.

Tabor believes the 25-year-old Benjamin can have a bounce-back season, which is possible.

OTHER OPTIONS

Tabor mentioned rookie running back Duke Johnson, who was also an elite kick returner at Miami. He averaged 33.0 yards and ran two for touchdowns in 27 attempts. Johnson never returned punts. Tabor thinks he can so Johnson is an intriguing option.

I've wondered about Justin Gilbert as a punt returner, but Tabor simply said, "He's a kick returner. Some people think he's a punt returner. He is not a punt returner. He is a kick returner."

Last year, the Browns didn't allow Gilbert to return anything. At Oklahoma State, he returned eight punts in 2010 for a 6.9 average -- not much to be excited about.

As a kick returner, Gilbert ran back six for touchdowns and had a 26.3 average in 102 attempts.

ABOUT THE BROWNS:

1. I understand the fascination with Johnny Manziel making his first appearance with the veterans when mini-camp opens Tuesday. The media can watch practice. Remember, no one is tackled. It's mostly guys in helmets and shorts playing the NFL's version of flag football. Unless Manziel looks totally overwhelmed, it's hard to tell much of anything at this time of year.

2. The good news is Manziel appears to have done everything the Browns would want in terms of his off-season rehabilitation program. The coaches are raving about his attitude. But it will take months to figure out where Manziel is as a player in the NFL. That won't become clear until training camp in the summer and the preseason games.

3. It will be interesting to see how veteran receiver Dwayne Bowe looks. Does he still have some speed to get away from defensive backs? The Browns believe so. The Chiefs seemed to think Bowe was close to being finished as a football player.

4. Watching Duke Johnson run the ball and catch passes out of the backfield should be fun. The Browns definitely need a running back who can help in the passing game. Last year, Browns backs combined for only 29 receptions: Terrance West (11), Isaiah Crowell (9), Ben Tate (9). Fullback Ray Agnew caught three passes. Johnson had 38 catches for Miami last season, including three for touchdowns.

5. I'm not very worried that top pick Danny Shelton will miss the first mandatory mini-camp. The academic All-American is finishing up his anthropology degree at Washington. He's smart. He will be able to catch up when it comes to learning the different defensive schemes.

6. I heard good things about how Connor Shaw played in rookie camp. I've always thought Thad Lewis could be a capable backup. Both of those guys could push Manziel to be the top backup behind Josh McCown. But if Manziel looks good, the job will be his. You can be sure the Browns would love it if Manziel really knows the new playbook and can run the offense with confidence.

7. I expect Armonty Bryant to easily make the switch from defensive end to outside linebacker with the goal of rushing the passer. That adjustment begins now. Bryant had ACL knee surgery last October. Does he still have the speed that made the 2013 seventh-round pick so attractive to the coaches last season? He has 3.0 sacks in 17 pro games.

3. Center Alex Mack
The two-time Pro Bowler is attempting to rebound from the broken left fibula he suffered Oct. 12 against the Pittsburgh Steelers. The Browns are confident he’ll be full go by training camp. They desperately need him to stay on track because their offense will be predicated on the run game. In the five games Mack started last season, they had 165 carries for 732 yards (4.4 average) and eight touchdowns. In the 11 games Mack was sidelined, they had 312 carries for 996 yards (3.2 average) and nine touchdowns.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/nate-u...uesday-1.594463

Browns look to further solidify offense’s identity at OTAs


Andrew Gribble
Senior Staff Writer


Cleveland holds 1st of 10 on Tuesday

The Browns’ offense and defense enter OTAs at different stages of development, but Mike Pettine likes where both units are at in their progression toward the 2015 season.

The identity of Cleveland’s defense, he said, came together throughout his debut season as the team’s coach. With minimal turnover among coaches and more additions than subtractions to the roster, the focus has shifted to fine-tuning and taking the players to a “graduate-level” understanding of the schemes, blitzes and formations Jim O’Neil plans to implement in his second season as defensive coordinator.

The offense, meanwhile, is in a state of transition, but it’s far less extreme than what was necessary during Pettine’s first season. The zone-run scheme installed by former offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan will remain largely intact, as offensive coordinator John DeFilippo works with retained assistants Brian Angelichio (tight ends), George DeLeone (assistant offensive line), Andy Moeller (offensive line) and Wilbert Montgomery (running backs) to maintain a “greatest hits” of last year’s run attack.

Pettine, in a recent interview on Cleveland Browns Daily, said there were some complementary pieces missing from last year’s running game he hopes to add to the Browns’ arsenal. He listed gap-scheme runs and misdirection runs as some of potential wrinkles.

The installation has been of the “high volume” variety, Pettine said, and it will continue throughout the next few weeks of OTAs leading into the team’s mandatory veteran mini-camp (June 16-18).

“The big thing for us now is we’ll finish the spring with a very large inventory,” Pettine said. “We have to determine at some point to start to trim that down to what we are. What do we do best? And then, what do we not do well? That’s something than can kind of fall by the wayside. But we need to come up with what our identity is on offense and I feel we are right on pace to do that.”

Contact is still prohibited, and OTAs remain voluntary, but the next three weeks will allow the team to roll through 11-on-11 drills for the first time since DeFilippo was hired. That’s pivotal, especially for the more visual learners, Pettine said.

Finding a “middle ground” on offense will be among the goals Cleveland carries into this vital stretch of the offseason.

“We don’t want to be all just one thing – where if a team takes your fastball away, you have no complement,” Pettine said. “But at the same time that you still have to have something you go to that’s your core. That’s really what we are finding out now: What are our core plays going to be? We might dress them up, in different personnel groupings, different formations and different shifts … and get to those looks in different ways, but still have those core plays be what they are.

“The guys are all here, they’ve been great in the meetings I’ve sat in on. It’s carried over to the field.”

link

Gipson not expected at OTAs

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Mack is participating.

Terrence West and Andrew Hawkins fielding kick returns.

I don't know if I want Hawkins returning kicks. He is probably our best receiver.

I could care less about West, he is our third back. Hopefully he can make himself useful on special teams. He doesn't have the speed I would like in a kick returner.

First team O-Line:

Thomas, Bitonio, Mack, Greco, Schwartz.

Edit:

Mack is limited. When he is not on the field, Greco moves to center and Irving to right guard.

My first reaction too.

Mack's comeback sounds a bit ominous.

Gipson should watch how he acts, If he comes across as to much of a diva, then that might affect how the FO will view him as a Team Player. Plus coming off injury nobody knows how he will play this yr.

Possibly, but it's best to sit out now to express your discontent than during the season.....you know, like Peyton Hillis did. Not only did it blow up in his face, but doing what he did DURING the season and all his baggage (faked being sick, kicking field goals in warms up when he was "injured", etc) made him the diva.

Players understand this process. The guy is "trying to get paid". They (and I'd assume the FO as well) know that one injury can end it all.

Would love to see Duke Johnson returning kickoffs and punts. Honestly, I thought that was the main reason he was drafted. I'm also looking forward to seeing how Bowie and Erving push to become starters. I don't care much for Mitchell Schwartz, so I'm hoping he can be beat out.

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Peyton Hillis, I forgot how much of a moron he was.

The right side of the line will be interesting to watch as the summer carries on. I think Greco's competition is Irving and Schwartz's is Bowie, and Farmer has raved about Bowie before.

I like Schwartz, but if someone is better than him, the upgrade him-- that's the way it goes, obviously.

But I know nothing about Bowie so not sure how much of a competition it will be.

I just don't get this. Leave Hawkins as WR, he goes all out you almost need to save him from himself. Let him focus and take the hits as a WR.

And West? I like nothing about that. I question his hands because after last year, I'm sick of seeing people who can't even carry out a fair catch successfully. Plus, no elite speed there.

Chris Tabor just what are you thinking? I'd rather see Gilbert, or even that new kid Duke, take reps there.

Dude, it's Day One.

Day whatever, just don't even see why they'd entertain the thought of West at returner. JMO though!

...

Cleveland Browns twitter account already has some video up guys! Go watch Taylor Gabriel smoke Joe Haden hehe!

With the kick rules its not like you actually get to return anything anyway. Plus our best returners have never been pure speed guys but patient returners like Cribbs.

Bowie is this years McQuistan who Farmer hypes and we all pray he never sees the field. The competition will be between Grecco and Erving.

Interesting, why do you think that? Do you know anything about Bowie? How did he do with the Seahawks?

I read a few articles earlier this year that said that the Browns did not expect to start Mack back to actively practicing until training camp.

On 6-15-15 his restricted FA offer will be rescinded. The offer will be reduced to under 1 mil. The budding cancer Gipson and company trying to hold the course. ...for now.

OTA News: Barkevious Mingo still not cleared for contact

With the Cleveland Browns kicking off Organized Team Activities (OTAs) this week, one surprising element is outside linebacker Barkevious Mingo donning a red no-contact jersey for Day 1. In February, it was revealed that Mingo underwent surgery to repair a labrum issue which had plagued the 24-year-old pass-rusher for much of the 2014 season.

In March, two months removed from surgery, Mingo told reporters that he would be 100 percent by Training Camp. Earlier this month, it was reported that he would be “pretty close to all-go” for OTAs, but the Browns appear to be taking things slowly with the former first-round draft pick.

Despite his issues with injuries and tallying just seven sacks in two seasons with the Browns, Mingo still graded out as a top-15 3-4 outside linebacker (via Pro Football Focus) as a part-time player across 681 snaps in 2014 thanks to solid run defense. It’s safe to say that the Browns would love to get more pass-rushing production out the LSU product, but a rotation could once again be in order with the team using a second-round pick on linebacker Nate Orchard. With Jabaal Sheard out of the picture, one would assume that Mingo will be dropping into coverage a lot less, but he’ll have to get fully healthy for this to even materialize into a decision on the part of the Browns’ coaching staff.

Other items of note:

Rookie wide receiver Vince Mayle is on the sidelines sporting a cast for his broken thumb. Tight end Randall Telfer (foot) and cornerback Ifo Ekpre-Olomu (knee) are also not participating.
First-round draft pick Danny Shelton is not present for Day 1 as he is finishing school.
Rookie running back Duke Johnson is not participating in OTAs at this point as he remains as the only unsigned draftee of the Browns. Isaiah Crowell is getting reps with the first team.
Quarterback Johnny Manziel is taking second-team repetitions behind Josh McCown.
Safety Tashaun Gipson is still absent from Berea as he remains unsigned. Gipson has until June 15 to sign his second-round tender. Jordan Poyer will play with the first team in his place.
With the team easing Alex Mack back into the fold, John Greco has taken snaps center with rookie Cameron Erving playing right guard.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2015/05/cleveland-browns-otas-barkevious-mingo/

Browns OTA notes: Johnny Manziel leads off his second season with the No. 2 offense
May 26, 2015 -- 3:59pm

* Somebody had to take the first snap from center with the first-team offense and that was quarterback Josh McCown. That was expected. And somebody had to take the first snap from center with the second-team offense and that was quarterback Johnny Manziel. It’s not that that was unexpected, given the plaudits Manziel has earned from teammates and coaches since his return from a 73-day stay in a substance abuse rehab center. It’s just that it was not specified that Manziel would be No. 2 on the unofficial, springtime depth chart until they took the field. “Just coaches decision based on how those guys came out of Phase 2 (of the offseason program),” explained coach Mike Pettine with a shrug. More Pettine on Manziel’s demeanor as his recovery unfolds: “I wouldn’t say it’s anything dramatic. I just think he’s probably a little bit more focused now. But as he knows, as he’s said, he’ll have to prove it every day.”

* The Browns are letting Manziel choose when he addresses the media for the first time since his offseason rehab stay. It may come spur of the moment walking off the practice field any time during the sessions with media present over the next two Tuesdays. Meantime, teammates say there hasn’t been a lot of talk with Manziel about his rehab stay. Everyone is embracing his return, supporting him, while also giving him his space.

* Veteran quarterbacks with 12 years NFL experience should look good in this touch football portion of a new season, and that is certainly true of McCown. Pettine said that McCown’s preparation in the new Browns’ playbook was evident on the first day on the field. “Just knowing the play call and where everybody’s supposed to be, if somebody was misaligned, and getting it corrected,” Pettine said. “Defensively, we threw a lot of looks at him. Your quarterbacks have tools in the tool box as far as changing protection and re-identifying and there’s things he can get in and get out of based on the defensive look and he handled that very well.” One other observation about McCown, who turns 36 on July 4: He can still spin the ball really well.

* McCown isn’t superstitious. This is his 13th NFL season and for the first time he’s wearing jersey No. 13. McCown has worn No. 12 with seven previous teams but that is the number of suspended receiver Josh Gordon and the Browns have not reassigned it.

* Missing from practice were rookie running back Duke Johnson (travel issue), linebacker Craig Robertson (stuck in flood-ravaged Houston), rookie nose tackle Danny Shelton (finishing classes at University of Washington) and free safety Tashaun Gipson (unsigned and boycotting the offseason program). Some players who finished the 2014 season on injury lists or had offseason surgery were on the field for limited portions of practice, such as center Alex Mack, defensive tackle Phil Taylor, nose tackle Ishmaa’ily Kitchen and linebacker Armonty Bryant. Linebacker Barkevious Mingo wore a red “no contact” jersey to avoid re-injury to his surgically repaired shoulder.

* With Mack being held out of team drills as a precaution to insure he is full go for the start of training camp and with backup center Nick McDonald with an unspecified leg injury, John Greco took the majority of snaps at center. Rookie Cam Erving lined up at right guard, but Pettine said Ervin “will play all over the place … he’ll get some left tackle work, as well.” The coaches aren’t concerned, at this point, with over-loading the versatile Erving and don’t seem inclined to focus his attention on, say, just guard and center. “There’s no reason to think – knowing the kid and his skill set – that he won’t be able to do it,” Pettine said of spreading Erving over as many positions as possible in his first NFL season.

* As expected, Mack wouldn’t talk much about his option to become a free agent after the season. He answered one question by saying, “I defer.” When pressed about his plans after this season, he said, “Let’s play the games, let’s see how the season goes. I’m really not interested in talking about that until after the season.” What would have to happen to make him feel good about returning? “What you always (want). Come out, play games, play well and win games,” Mack said. The Browns are 30-66 in Mack’s six seasons and the losing definitely takes a toll. “It’s tough … without a doubt,” he said.

* One difference in John DeFilippo’s offense was evident on the first day. Extended work on swing passes and outlets to the running backs … Rob Housler not only is assuming the role of downfield receiver among the tight ends, he’s also wearing the No. 84 of departed free agent Jordan Cameron … The Browns are counting on a bounce-back year from punt returner Travis Benjamin. The only other player to take punt return reps was receiver Taylor Gabriel … Rookie tackle Xavier Cooper looked disruptive in the interior of the defensive line. He pried two balls from the backs … The team has two more practices this week. Next practice open to media is Tuesday.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=45051

i don't even know why McCown learned the playbook, or is at OTAs..

He was only signed so we could get the #1 pick right?

Why would he need to practice for that?

"I am so FREAKING LUCKY to have this job."

The guy wants a longer term deal while his stock is high, that doesn't make him a budding cancer.

Good point I concur. He doesn't need to practice to be bad he has that nailed down and has for 12 years now what are the Browns thinking indeed.

Browns OTAs: Here's what coach Mike Pettine is saying about the team

Browns coach Mike Pettine met with reporters Tuesday after the first practice of organized team activities. Below is a transcript provided by the team.
On how the first day of OTAs went: “I think it’s a typical first day, some sloppiness. There are rookies integrating with the vets, just kind of learning how to practice. Then, the one thing that from a scheme standpoint, we’ve put a lot in both sides of the ball and we’re going to do some things to test each other and some of it tests ourselves – guys getting lined up. It was, like I said, a typical first day – a lot of good teaching moments on tape. The key is that we can go in and get it graded and go through it with them and the mistakes are getting corrected and not repeated.”


On the players that weren’t at practice, specifically RB Duke Johnson and if his absence was excused: “Travel issues, we had a couple guys. (LB) Craig Robertson was down in Houston, got caught in the flash flooding there. We had some guys with…Some of the injury guys didn’t…I don’t think (DB) Ifo (Ekpre-Olomu)…I don’t think we’ll see much of him. He’ll stay inside. The injured guys, (OL) Nick McDonald is not practicing. (WR) Vince (Mayle) is still recovering from his thumb. He likely won’t take any reps in the spring…(TE Randall) Telfer with the foot, as we know. (OL) Karim Barton should be ready for camp. He’ll be able to do just walkthrough stuff now. (DL) Armonty (Bryant) is doing just individual stuff now. He can do the walkthroughs. (OL) Alex (Mack) is ready to go. I’m sure he’ll tell you that, but that’s just something where we just want to probably be a lot more conservative with it. He’ll be able to do anything where there’s no risk of a collision or getting tripped up. (LB Barkevious) Mingo can do some individual walkthrough stuff. We had him in a red shirt. I think he did some of the 7-on-7 work. (DL) Phil (Taylor), gradual progression with him – he’s on pace to be good to go for camp. (DL) Jamie Meder has got a hamstring, should be able to get him up to speed pretty quickly.”


On how much DL Danny Shelton has missed by not being at practice because of finishing school at Washington: “There’s just no substitute for being in the meetings and being around your teammates and just kind of learning the ropes of the NFL early on. You just can’t substitute that. I wouldn’t say it’s going to put him behind tremendously. He’ll have access to all the stuff that we’re doing, from a playbook standpoint. It’s one of those rules. It’s tough, those guys that are really at a disadvantage that are at those quarter-system schools.”


On knowing that Shelton would miss OTAs because of school when the Browns drafted him: “Sure, you would never let that be a determining factor. Maybe if you were bringing in a guy for a tryout or something like that, and all of a sudden you realize, ‘Hey, we might not have this guy all spring. That’s a different story. It’s just a problem you work around. By the time we get to a little bit into training camp, it’ll be an afterthought.”


On OL John Greco playing center with the first string: “He’s mixing those lineups. You’ll see (OL) Cameron (Erving) will play all over the place. He’ll get some left tackle work, as well. John will get his work at right guard and at center, as well.”


On what he’s seen out of Mack throughout the rehab process: “He approached as you would have expected him to. We talk to our guys about being relentless in everything they do – not just on the field, but carry that over in the classroom, the weight room, anybody that has an injury approach their rehab that way, and that’s what he’s done. It’s to no one’s surprise that he’s back, and he’ll be full go for training camp.”


On the differences in QB Johnny Manziel that he’s noticed so far: “I don’t want to get into grading specific plays today. I have a little better feel for it now, having been in a lot of those meetings. He’s been very engaged in the meetings. It’s good to see a lot of stuff carried over from the meetings out onto the field, and not just for him but for all the quarterbacks. I just feel much better…from that room a better sense of urgency and much more attention to detail.”


On why he chose to have Manziel take second-team reps instead of QB Connor Shaw: “It’s just a coach’s decision based on how those guys came out of Phase Two.”


On if Manziel’s personality is any different this season: “I wouldn’t say it’s anything dramatic. I just think he’s probably a little bit more focused now, but it’s something that – as he knows and as he’s said – he’ll have to prove it every day.”


On if there is hope that LB Scott Solomon will be in the defensive rotation as a pass rusher: “I think Scott showed us towards the end of the year what he’s capable of, and now that he’ll have been here through a full offseason and been in through all the installs…That’s tough when you come to a team midstream and the reps that you’re getting for the most part, for him, were off of a scout card. That’s when we really took notice of him and got him in there without a lot of prep work just because of the circumstances. We’re looking for some big things from Scott.”


On if he’s spoken to RB Terrance West at all about addressing possible maturity issues: “Yeah, I was very curious to see how he would be coming back. Other than what he did to his hair, he’s been great (laughs).


On what he likes about WR Rodney Smith: “He showed flashes when he was out there on the scout team. Again, he wasn’t a guy that got a lot of reps with the starting units. Here’s a guy that is big, that’s got a big catch radius, that can run. We were very curious to get him out here and get him through the offseason and give him a chance to compete. He’s been so far so good with Rodney.”


On how much he knew about QB Josh McCown before free agency and what McCown has been like when he’s been sitting in on the offensive meetings: “To be honest, I did not know very much about him, but researched him heading into free agency. Then, talked to a lot of people that had worked with him or knew him, then just the experience when he was in here – you could tell this guy loves football. He’s all about team. All he wants to do is win, ultra-competitive. He’s been rock solid in the meetings, very on point with his preparation. We didn’t bring him here to be a mentor, but that’s just who he is. He doesn’t know any different. He’s been as advertised.”


On if saying that the offense wants to take pressure off of the quarterback by running the ball bothers McCown or if that is motivation for him: “I think he sees that as potentially a way to win football games. I think virtually any quarterback in the league, if we said, ‘Hey, we want to get you in second-and-5 and not second-and-11. We want to get you in third-and-2 and not third-and-8,’ I think they’d all be appreciative of that.”


On some of the first impressions he has of McCown on the field: “Just how his preparation helped him on the field, just knowing the play call and where everybody is supposed to be and if somebody was misaligned that he could get it corrected. Defensively, threw a lot of looks at him that he was able to kind of use…Quarterbacks have tools in the tool box, as far as changing protection and re-identifying. There are different things we can get in and get out of based on the defensive look, and he handled that very well.”


On the changes he sees in DB Justin Gilbert: “Justin, I feel like he’s having a good spring. I thought he looked very energetic out there today. We’ll see. I think with all the guys that we’re talking about – like you go back to Terrance or even Justin – it’s a consistency thing. If you prove you can do it one day that means you can do it another and you can do it another and just keep stacking up good days. That’s what being a professional is all about.”


On how he would describe Gilbert’s rookie year: “Inconsistent.”


On WR Andrew Hawkins being in pre-snap motion during practice and if that will be a staple to the offense: “I think that the pre-snap movement stuff is good. We’re not going to overdo it. I know we want to get a lot of it in, but you kind of have a feel for what defenses, ‘Who does this affect? Who does this not affect?’ We don’t want to just shift and motion just to tire our guys out and not have an effect. We’re going to install a lot. We’re going to throw a lot at our guys and see what we can retain. Then, sit back as coaches and look at, ‘Here’s what we do well,’ and go ahead and highlight that.”
On if there is a danger of overloading Erving with all the things he can do and at what point the team will zero in on specific positions for the offensive linemen: “I could see the potential danger, but I think that’s a risk worth taking. In our evaluation of him coming out, he certainly proved that he was able to do it in college. Just knowing the kid and his skill set and his ability to learn, there’s no reason to think that he won’t be able to do it. There will be signs when it’s getting to be too much, and hopefully as coaches we can pick those up. I think anytime you have versatile guys that can play multiple positions that always puts you in a position to put your best 11 out there.”


On what the differences are that he’s noticing now that he’s engaged with the offense more this offseason: “It’s like back to school for me. You kind of see plays from the defensive side, and now you kind of learn the structure of them and what specifically…just the details of it. It’s good to kind of sit in the meeting almost like a player and learn it. That way you get a better appreciation for what these guys have to go through. We tell them, ‘Hey, go home. Get in your playbook. Do this, do that.’ I’m realizing that, ‘Hey, we’re asking a lot of these guys.’ To me, you have to be mature and have to be professional to be able to handle the volume of an NFL offense.”


On if the players seem to sit up more in meetings because the head coach is in the room: “I doubt that (laughs). I’m behind them anyway. I sit in the back. I’m not a very good student. I sit in the furthest seat from the front.”

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-brow...e-team-1.594846

In addition to that, I really believe the staff wants to give him that long term deal, just dancing around with the number game.

Nor does it exclude the possibility. Seems already some wariness from Jim O'Neil:

"The guys that are here are getting a lot better. We have great coaches in that room. Great coaches. And those guys are growing. Jordan Poyer's growing, Whitner's growing, the corners are growing, so Gip's going to have some catching up to do when he does come back."

Yeah.. I mean.. theyre going with a veteran journeyman QB who's only had one few game stretch of success as the starter..

Thats unheard of..

This is either very good, or very bad.

Cleveland Browns veteran QBs have been bridge to nowhere

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2015/05/19/cleveland-browns-veteran-qbs-have-been-bridge-to-nowhere/

Gipson will play either under his remaining deal or with a new one, sitting out he whole season isn't something he is going to do, that would hurt him more than help him ... JMHO

I just see another St. Claire type OL. Looks the part but effort and ability are lacking. I may be wrong and i hope i am but he isnt much.

Tom Reed @treed1919 · 28m 28 minutes ago
Terrance West confirms he was in coach's dog house sometimes last year and that he deserved to be. He looks foward to Duke Johnson challenge

Mary Kay Cabot @MaryKayCabot · 2h 2 hours ago
#Browns waived LB Keith Pough with an injury designation (hamstring) and waived DL Calvin Barnett.

Mary Kay Cabot @MaryKayCabot · 45m 45 minutes ago
#Browns have signed offensive lineman Eric Olsen (in 4th season out of Notre Dame) and LB Mike Reilly, a tryout in rookie camp (Wm and Mary)

It is one of the weirdest situations I can remember a UDFA who did arrive but also had surgery on the knee to miss a lot of the season. But get a Tender that doesn't mean he ends up with just keep negotiating that long term contract although with the injury not a contract leverage point for him. Maybe best for him to sign the tender get like 4-5 times what he made in the past and then have a healthy good year and right his ticket. I just don't get this. And I assume that is what he will do cause its the only reason to be upset about the 2nd round tender and not the first round he would have had more for 2015...in the one year show me.

Again a player just getting terrible advice from his agent.

Thanks for the info...even though negative (waiting for a positive some where from you) but at least it was educative info that I was not privy of.... thanks.

jmho

i think nhe is staying away over injury concerns. he is going to play the year on the tender betting on himself for a better contract and he doesnt want to take the chance of getting hurt in ota. jmo.

When camp starts, you will see Johnny's amount of reps with the first team growing and growing. Johnny will start unless he gives them a reason not to. He needs to play so we know what we have unless he sucks so bad that we already know what we have.

First day of OTAs shows Josh McCown, Johnny Manziel have work to do

BEREA, Ohio -- How did the Cleveland Browns' quarterbacks look on their first day of competitive OTA practice on Tuesday?

Like two guys learning a new system with a new coordinator and new receivers on the first day of an offseason practice.

“Sloppy” was the word Mike Pettine used for the whole team. It certainly applied to the first two quarterbacks, as both Josh McCown and Johnny Manziel threw plenty of footballs to the ground.

McCown might be able to afford the errors better than Manziel. Teammate Donte Whitner said Manziel’s rookie season was a disaster, so Manziel has two hurdles to overcome this offseason.

He first must get his life together off the field, which is why he spent 10 weeks in a treatment facility. Then he must prove he can play in the NFL on the field -- something he did not do one year ago.

Given that it’s May and it’s a new system, immediate precision should not be expected. But it’s also clear the Browns have a long way to go.

McCown got all the reps with the first team, Manziel took all the reps with the backups. Both had moments, but neither distinguished themselves.

Manziel, as always, was the focus of attention. His arm strength was evident when he threw in one-on-one drills, but when it got to “team” work there were … well … concerns.

He underthrew a short out route in seven-on-seven that was intercepted by K’Waun Williams, a throw against no rush that leaves most NFL quarterbacks simmering.

He dropped the ball on a rollout, had another throw blocked at the line and had an underthrow to Paul Browning knocked away by Kendall James.

“I don’t want to get into grading specific plays today,” coach Mike Pettine said.

He echoed a by-now familiar theme: Manziel has been more engaged in meetings than he was a year ago.

“We’re a new group,” McCown said. “And any time you come together as a new group there’s going to be growing pains.”

He then emphasized setting a high standard to “speed up that learning curve.”

“I want to see the Cleveland Browns and the quarterback position be better than it's been,” McCown said.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/...have-work-to-do

Sloppy...

Browns' Alex Mack acknowledges winning will be a factor in if he stays or goes

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._medium=twitter

We all know this, it was never a secret the minute he had the other team include an opt out clause that they knew the Browns would have to match.

Personally, I like Mack a lot. He's a very good player at a crucial position. If we win and he stays, then gravy... if not, there's a reason we drafted Erving. I hope we win and Mack stays and we end up having one of the best fronts both on offense and defense. How proud as Browns fans would we be to have the luxury of being able to say that with a straight face?

Yeah, but we are babying ALL guys who got surgery last year, He can attend the meetings work out inside for continued rehab and do some walk throughs - like Mack and others.

jmho

Day 1 of OTAs in a new offense.....I know, I expected flawlessness too!

j/c:

Finding the Fits: Edge rusher Nate Orchard to blossom for Browns

Cleveland's best fit: OLB Nate Orchard, No. 51 overall

Given that Cleveland finished dead last a year ago in run defense, it would be easy to call the selection of the 6-foot-3, 339 pound run-stuffing nose guard Danny Shelton - the Browns' first pick and the No. 12 overall selection - the club's best fit. Bottling up opposing running backs was hardly the Browns' only problem on defense a year ago, however, and with the hopeful return to health of Phil Taylor and Armonty Bryant as well as the addition of free agent Randy Starks, there is plenty of reason to believe that Mike Pettine's defense will be stouter in 2015.

Until the Browns selected Orchard with the 51st pick, however, there was plenty of concern as to how the club might be able to match last year's pass rush - which finished just 27th in the league.

The Browns boast one accomplished edge rusher in Paul Kruger, who led the club with 11 sacks and four forced fumbles a year ago. He didn't receive much help on the other side of Pettine's 3-4 alignment from former high picks Barkevious Mingo (No. 6 overall, 2013) or Jabaal Sheard (No. 37 overall, 2011), each of whom posted just two sacks last season. Mingo fell to just two sacks in 11 starts (15 games overall) after flashing with five sacks as a rookie and is coming off shoulder surgery. Sheard saw his sack numbers drop all four years in Cleveland and was signed away by the New England Patriots.

If production is what the Browns are looking for, Orchard is the right guy for the job, as his 1.42 sacks per game average led all of college football last year.

And while Orchard did most of his damage for Utah as defensive end, he was occasionally asked to rush out of the two-point stance and impressed with his agility and balance when dropping as a linebacker at the Senior Bowl.

What Orchard does best, of course, is rush the quarterback. He has a quick burst to cross the face of tackles, as well as an excellent counter back inside and uses his hands as well as any edge rusher in this class. Orchard's varied pass rush arsenal gave the top tackles he faced fits this year -- including first round pick Andrus Peat (New Orleans Saints) and second rounder Ty Sambrailo (Denver Broncos). It is a combination of technique, talent and hustle that could remind Cleveland fans of Kruger - who, of course, also spent his college days starring at defensive end for the Utah Utes.

Other thoughts on the Browns' 2015 draft class:

Both literally and figuratively, Shelton should be a huge addition for the Browns. As you'd expect for a man of his size, Shelton is a powerful run plugger capable of eating up blocks. He's remarkably light on his feet and passionate in pursuit, as well, making him a real threat to split gaps and make big plays behind the line of scrimmage, himself, as well as create opportunities for teammates.

Fellow first round selection Cam Erving saw time at center, right guard and right tackle in the team's rookie minicamp and recent OTAs. Switching positions, of course, is nothing new for Erving, who originally signed (and played) with Florida State on the defensive line before starring first at left tackle and then center on the offensive side of the ball. Given his relative inexperience, Erving is likely to struggle at times as a rookie but he possesses an exciting combination of length, strength and agility. If he isn't already one of the five best offensive linemen on Cleveland's roster, he soon will be.

As much as I like Duke Johnson, I was surprised to see him wind up in Cleveland. Johnson is an electric runner whose agility and acceleration make him a nightmare for defenders to handle in the open field but the often sloppy conditions at FirstEnergy Stadium threaten could slow him down a bit. Further, for a club already boasting two talented young runners in Terrance West and Isaiah Crowell, I wonder if there will be enough carries to keep all three backs happy.

If friendly competition among Cleveland's running backs can keep them motivated, Shelton's former Washington State rivals Xavier Cooper and Vince Mayle could also make things interesting. Cooper is one of the more intriguing developmental defensive tackles in this class. He isn't as stout against the run as Shelton but offers raw athleticism, including a quick burst, balance and tenacity. He was miscast at Washington State as a two-gap run-stuffer and would have produced better numbers if allowed to simply attack. Of course, all Mayle and Washington State's offense do under pass-happy head coach Mike Leach is attack. Mayle finished among the nation's leading receivers in virtually every category but doesn't offer game-breaking speed. In many ways, his game is similar to that of new teammate Dwayne Bowe. Each use their size and physicality to "box out" defenders to haul in passes. Neither, however, is likely to run away and create big plays on their own. Still, for a club that struggled passing the ball like Cleveland did a year ago, the refurbished receiving corps offers some hope for likely starting quarterback Josh McCown and perhaps even Johnny Manziel.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-d...ssom-for-browns

FWIW, Farmer went on record (before the draft) that there was one player he absolutely was "in love" with. Nathan Zegura of CBD then followed up post-draft saying Orchard was the guy.

We'll see if Farmer ended making the right choice.....

I have a feeling that Xavier Cooper is going to be a huge piece in our pass rushing puzzle this year.

Yeah, a lot of posters around here seem to like him a bunch.

Hard to not find an article regarding him that doesn't make note of his first step/burst. Jim O'Neil said he and the staff labeled him the fastest first step of all interior dlinemen.

Hope is high. Late third round gem potential there, even if we did need to trade up.

I've yet to read a single negative thing about the kid, I'm excited to see him. I even read an article on Bleacher Report and on CBS Sports stating the Xavier Cooper could be a name to watch among the later round defensive players.



Mike Pettine has preached competition since the day he's walked in the door. I honestly think Manziel is going to need to be convincingly better than Josh McCown in order to win the starting job. Not necessarily cause McCown is better, but he COULD be better right now. We have a team that's ready to win now (how often can we say that huh?), so Pettine is going to HAVE to play the guy that gives us the best chance to win. Playing Manziel "just to see what we have" isn't necessarily a good idea. If McCown is clearly the better QB, yet Pettine names Manziel the starter anyway, the veterans are going to pick up on that, and it's not going to end very well.

I tend to think that Pettine wants to let Manziel sit and really learn this season, unless he so completely outplays McCown in the pre-season that there is no way he can sit him.

If we get anything approaching average QB play, this will be a 9-11 win team.

Since we have 75 defensive lineman and no skill players, they should at least be able to stop the run, until they tire out in the second half.

Cleveland Browns given hefty system dose in first OTA practice

Mike Pettine called the first Cleveland Browns offseason practice sloppy, but he was not overtly angry about the sloppiness.

Pettine has an interesting philosophy about practice and learning.

While some coaches prefer their team learns things gradually, Pettine goes all-in right away.

He’ll ask his coaches to stretch his players ability to learn and master plays, formations and adjustments — then use mistakes to correct and teach.

Last season, he asked one player to align himself defensively head on with a lineman. The implication was he would blitz. Instead, Pettine asked him to get back in coverage.

When he couldn’t get back in time, Pettine learned that player might not be able to handle that assignment. So the coaching staff didn’t ask him to do it.

It was no problem, just a moment that showed the coaching staff something it needed to know.

Tuesday was that way. The Browns asked the offense to grasp a lot of John DeFilippo’s new offense and asked the defense to have a better understanding of the scheme it ran last season. Even though there is continuity on the defensive side from 2014, the challenge was for both units.

“We’ve put a lot in both sides of the ball and we’re going to do some things to test each other and some of it tests ourselves,” Pettine said.

It can be tough, as veterans and especially rookies find themselves thinking about the new system as opposed to just running it.

But that’s what Pettine wants.

Tuesday there were throws deep when a receiver ran out. Throws that landed on the ground as a receiver looked back in wonder. Those were the noticeable mistakes, because coverages, alignments and protections also are part of the learning curve.

Pettine didn’t shrug off the mistakes. He clearly doesn’t want them. But he did say he can take advantage of them — because that is his style.

“A lot of good teaching moments on tape,” Pettine said. “The key is that we can go in and get it graded and go through it with them and the mistakes are getting corrected and not repeated.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...st-ota-practice

I've read a lot of the same. Whats the reason he did not go late 1st or early 2nd? I guess inexperience? Fairly new to the position?

The reason, i think Johnny beats him out is because Johnny is better suited for this offense. Flip likes a lot of Quick wide receiver screens and swing passes to backs. Johnny can get the ball out on those swings easily and as quick as anyone in the league. Those big hands just engulf the ball and he doesnt have to spin it or line it up in his hands.

Johnny hasnt had a chance to show it but he has a really good deep ball. I just feel he is really well suited for this scheme. The deep ball is probably why we didnt retain Hoyer, knowing we were gonna bring in Flip and his version of the Coryell.

McCown however looked like damaged goods last year and if Johnny makes it close, he will get the nod. I like McCown as a leader and mentor but he is a quality backup and just not a starter in this league. We hope Johnny is but we wont know till the bullets start flying how either will react.

Going against this secondary day in and day out even with no contact will help.

I do hope Manziel beats out McCown.

I seriously do, because if he does that means he's taken a very big step from last year.

I'm just skeptical as we all should be, Manziel gave us a lot of reasons to be skeptical last year and in the off-season.

If he shows monster improvement in camp and the preseason, and the team responds to him and he makes the competition close. Give him the nod.

Whoever can help this team win games. Hell, even if it's Thad Lewis, I just want a competent QB under center in week one.

Everything said in this post was as if I had typed it out mysekf.

Agree with everything 100%. If Connor Shaw provides the best chance of victory, then Shaw should be it. Whoever. The position is clearly open and ripe for the taking.

I thought we were ground and pound, not air Coryell? Do you stay up at night making this stuff up or does it just ooze out of you?

The reason Hoyer wasn't retained is anyone's guess at this point but I have concluded it was because Hoyer and Flip didn't exactly hit it off, at least thats what it looks like ???? Don't know ???

Johnny hasn't shown his deep ball or anything in between because he wasn't ready to play last year (too busy with other interests). I haven't given up on him YET, but if he can't beat out McCown I would cut him. But hey thats just me.

I understand your giddy about this team they have some good talent being wasted because we undervalued the QB position. Thats the real bad news, the good news is we should be picking near the top of the draft next year if we have to fall back on 1-10 McCown.

Tab said it best he would have to have a career year, and how likely is that at 36? But to hear it ooze out of Berea you would think he won the SB, the reality is he was 1-10 had a 4-3 run (I think) with Chicago and other then that short run he has always sucked. Thats why I say if Johnny can't beat him out I would cut him. There is no point wasting time with a QB that can't beat out McCown no matter how much fluff comes oozing out of Berea.

3 win 2 loss at chicago as a starter. 4 win 12 loss over the last 2 years. well....... he plays like a brown i guess.

LMAO...McCown has been named the probable opening day starter.

Not that I'll the think it'll happen, but there's a great deal of time and events that could occur now until then.

I'm not sure what JF fate should be if he's unable to demonstrate first round talent to beat out the current crop of avg talent we have here. I'd say maybe stick a fork in him and shift hope/expectations to someone else.

By not drafting a Qb, one can only assume the staff is hoping for JF to do something this year.

Not that I'll the think it'll happen, but there's a great deal of time and events that could occur now until then.

I'm not sure what JF fate should be if he's unable to demonstrate first round talent to beat out the current crop of avg talent we have here. I'd say maybe stick a fork in him and shift hope/expectations to someone else.

By not drafting a Qb, one can only assume the staff is hoping for JF to do something this year in terms of being a capable starting Qb.

i dont want another summer where the "starter" gets 60% of the reps, and the "backup" gets 40%. Then come the start of the season the "starter" looks like crap (because he didnt get enough reps, or he just sucks), then the "backup" is all of a sudden the answer, but he sucks too because he got 40% of the reps all summer.

ive seen that crap too many times. we like to call it "camp competition." and each year we get to hear about how competition is a good thing, makes everyone better, etc etc.

im sorry but NO, those extra hundreds of reps with the first team is what makes the QB better, not competition.



so with that said, i hope manziel very quickly looks better than mccown. please god dont wait until preseason and give us another RAC coinflip for who the starter is going to be. decide and move forward with it.

I thought we were ground and pound, not air Coryell? Do you stay up at night making this stuff up or does it just ooze out of you?

Flip is installing his version of the Coryell offense. You try to be insulting and it just highlights your ignorance. He learned under Saunders a Coryell guru. He ran a similar offense in college the only new addition will be keeping some of that zone blocking scheme.

Are you telling me you can't pound the ball in a Coryell offense? Wonder if Faulk and Tomilinson would agree with that?

I am sorry that Hoyer can't throw the deep ball worth a damn but that lack of ability is a primary reason he is gone.

Now if you want to stop being insulting and get back to football I will oblige.

Johnny had an excellent deep ball in college but with the mechanics he showed last year, that may be lost. I really dont know if they will be able to fix the Mr Roboto release he was showing. looked like he was trying to throw darts instead of footballs. I never saw 2 qbs mechanics go from pretty good to horrible in such a short period of time on the same team.

As for Connor Shaw, I just dont see him fitting in here as more than a practice squad QB.

yeah im really hoping manziel is retaught some mechanics. he went from looking like the most natural thrower in that draft class (imo), to like you said, looking super robotic.

One of the thing that worries me is that Josh looks really good when he isnt getting hit but he takes a couple shots and he is done for the year. We have a great OL but he is still gonna get hit. Last year he was washed up by the time opening day began for the bucks.

That statement you just made reeks shear horror through my soul.

Josh - 60% 40% was never the problem...Bad is bad.

I do know what you mean - a long drawn out competition means one thing...we don't have a THE GUY QB. In Manziels case it could be that he just is not ready. In McCowns case it can only mean one thing.

If Manziel is progressing very good but McCown is not bending at all that would be interesting. I would think the Veteran would still prevail but we would not hesitate to start the Manziel era.

Last season neither played well in Preseason but Manziel just wasn't ready. Hoyer progressed nicely and Manziel just was too into the Party.

BTTB - I asked Will a mediocre QB have a Career Year? I then went on to say that a very bid variable in what kind of year McCown will have has to do with the OL keeping him clean. When clean McCown is very accurate and his decisions are good. Yeah I know it is thought of by many that all QBs are good with a good Pocket. Which just is not the case. We've had many a time with time and I expect a big play and then a terrible decision with bad accuracy is the result.

McCown is good with that protection.

jmho

He hasn't, yet, given a single reason for us to NOT be skeptical of him. He most definitely has not gotten his career started the way one would hope for a 1st round selection.

We'll see what he's got soon enough, and it's not like McCown sets the bar to achieve all that high, so we'll know very soon whether or not we need to simply cut bait and move on.

Don't underestimate the coaches love for experience - they are not looking at the future as in this is a developmental league....they are looking for execution of the
1. Plays
2. Game Plans

Until it fails on the field consistently they will always choose the guy who executes it - not the intangible - Guys who brings it GAME DAY. That will take time to convert to Manziel and McCown would have to do some major failing.

This well if he doesn't beat out McCown for the starter we should dump him stuff is just not realistic.

jmho

Like I asked before do you stay up at night making this up?

Faulk knew success when he wasn't the main attraction which was the passing game. Tomlinson played for Marty a good part of his career, not exactly air Coryell....

That said by all reports we will run run run and use a lot of swing passes to the backs and you make out we are going to be Air Coryell part 2...

Especially with McCown and JF manning the QB spot... It absolutely slays me the things people will make up and then believe.... Good one mourg

Playing Air Coryell without Dan Fouts would be like making a Disney film with Adolph Hitler. Maybe you could try it .... but it sure won't be very pretty.

Chuck Muncie was the predominant RB during the Air Coryell era. I think that he went over 100 yards only once in San Diego.

He caught numerous passes, but he wasn't a huge running threat. He did score a lot of rushing TDs down close though.

I would suspect that Pettine wants the year to end with more rush attempts than pass attempts, and the passes being a combination of short and quick passes to draw the defense in, and then going over the top to attack when they play up. We aren't going to be an all out air raid type attack though. Pettine has said that he wants to protect and minimize the QB position, and Air Coryell does not do that.

I have not seen the pass patterns, or even really heard reports on what the pass game structures look like, but I would guess that we will be a run heavy WCO type offense ... not a pass heavy offense.

Mickey Mouse seems pretty racist. . .

I concur Y assuming everything works well I think the Browns will take some shots down the field (who doesn't) but the offense is about as far removed from Air Coryell as you can possibly get, which was my point to mourg.

Did you miss Mourg's explanation of the tree from Coryell to Saunders to Flip?

It appears that you stopped at Coryell.

JMO

I apologize for trying to discuss football with you. I should have known better.

As for anyone else that wants to talk football. The Coryell offense is about getting a couple of those receivers deep on pretty much every passing play. The philosophy is to create space behind them for run after catch. The space behind is often why Gordon was able to have space for those super run after catches under Chud and Norv.

A field stretcher like Gabriel and Benjamin can really open things up for the Hartline and Hawkins of the world.

Flip like Saunders likes to mix in that quick WR or RB screen. Atleast that is what he did in college and we have been working on in these practice sessions.

WCO is a lot more about drag routes, and with multiple receivers criss crossing and rubbing for one another. Coryell is about the vertical threat and most of the time reads will go from deep to short where as WCO goes from short to deep.

We are gonna run the ball. We are gonna run the ball a lot and we are gonna throw the ball to our backs as well but this is another variance of the Coryell offense.

I read it, and its always he was in the same building with this guy and he is from this tree and he will do this. Well we aren't going to see air Coryell here, the end.

Which is why I complained a lot about our Qb coach last year.

I was surprised last year too. Dowell Loggains is labeled as good quarterback coach. I believe Fox added Dowell to his staff in Chicago.

I guess we will never know, but something went very wrong end of last season. Kyle Shanahan and others weren't on the same page. As soon as Gordon returned, it appeared like Kyle weathered a storm and changed the offense. When Gordon struggled, offense lost rhythm and collapsed, and then everyone panic trying to get it back. Listen what Pettine is saying in OTAs. He's learning the offense. Why? I think if things fall off this year. He has some idea how to get the group refocus.

For the record, I like Kyle Shanahan. I think he is technically sound play caller. From what happen in Washington and now Cleveland, I believe Kyle struggles with the management side. He doesn't adapt well to adverse changes.

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig. AKA, Hoyer and Manziel

In some other thread I said I would be surprised if Solomon made the team. So far it appears I was way off. He has been playing with the first team while Mingo has been out. My guess is that eventually Orchard and Mingo overtake him, but it shows a lot that he is playing over a second round pick. Obviously if Solomon is a real player it would increase our depth greatly.

I don't see how Solomon doesn't make the team. I wish we'd have gotten him before the season started so we could've seen more of him last year. There's no way he'd likely been as ineffective as Jabaal was. Stood out when he did play though. At the very least, those players just edging the team's roster based on their special teams role will be passed on for Scott who'll both play on ST's and be a rotational OLB.

JMO anyway.

Kyle is good at taking credit when things go well, and blaming somebody else when they go bad.

That seems to be what he's done throughout his career..

j/c:

The fact that Phil Taylor is still not practicing today because of last year's injury is very troubling.

Grossi sent out a tweet that Haslam greeted him as Mr. Positive.

I think the team has moved on from Phil Taylor anyway.

Yes and what I like is that Ray Farmer has already taken steps if they decide not to resign PT and if Mack leaves. By drafting X Cooper and Erving it shows that he has some foresight. I don't think we have seen much of this from past regimes.

phil taylor never practices this time of year...........

every time training camp opens, i notice big phil on the sideline until nearly the end of training camp. too much meat on his bones i guess.

It's funny, but to me it's very clear. We did just what you said. At least as it pertains to Mack. When we drafted Erving, the first words out of my mouth, Insurance for Mack leaving and if Mack doesn't leave, we've added either a Tackle or Guard or Back up Center.,

I thought it was a smart move. that's not to say that the guy they picked with be another All Pro, that I don't know, but the thinking is sound.

I don't think that any of the seriously injured players from last year are practicing yet.

Aren't they keeping all of last years injured out of the OTAs and just want them to get ready for Training camp. Mingo not in Mack not in. Several players not in due to surgery last year. I know we are just aching for some football. But we are being very conservative with all the injured.

Solomon, right now I would expect him ahead of a rookie he has a year in our defense and had playing experience. Its not to take as a flag on our rook or how great Solomon is. Although what Solomon happens to be is a FOOTBALL PLAYER. I like those guys!

jmho

Yeah you have to maintain the quality of football we have been seeing. Oh never mind...

j/c:

5 observations from Browns OTAs

1) DB Justin Gilbert is making plays

Gilbert’s recovery speed and pure athleticism were on full display Tuesday. In an 11-on-11 drill that had the Browns offense in the red zone, the cornerback broke up consecutive passes on quarterback Johnny Manziel, diving and batting the ball away at the last moment. After the second knockdown, his defensive teammates broke out in a chorus of cheers, loudly approving of his Tuesday practice session.

“He’s comfortable,” cornerback Joe Haden said. “He’s making plays.”

The changes from Gilbert have been all about paying attention to minor details – knowing where to be in zone coverage, taking more detailed notes in meetings and, plainly, more seasoning. It is worth noting that Gilbert had a shaky junior season at Oklahoma State before picking off six passes his senior year and proving to be one of college football’s preeminent cornerbacks.

“I definitely see changes, but I think you said it – probably too early,” coach Mike Pettine said.
“It’s just all about consistency. Just coming in here, perfecting his craft every day, and right now it’s so far so good.”

As of now, Gilbert and fellow second-year defensive back Pierre Desir have been locked in with the second unit as the outside cornerbacks. Gilbert’s repetitions with the first unit could see a bump if days like Tuesday keep happening.

2) RB Duke Johnson and WR Vince Mayle enter the fray

After tending to a family matter last week, Johnson was back in a big way Tuesday. Defensive linemen aren’t allowed to have contact with running backs, but it’s likely they would not have even had the chance to on some of Johnson’s runs. His explosiveness is apparent and all signs are pointing toward the rookie from Miami crafting a unique, but siginicant role by September.

“There was one of the runs in the team period that unless we were playing flag football, that would have been a 40- or 50-yard chunk,” Pettine said. “He’s got a lot to learn, but he’s probably a typical rookie where he is right now.”

Mayle sported a red non-contact jersey because of his recent thumb surgery but still saw extensive action. The 6-foot-2, 225-pound rookie lined up as the outside receiver in several 11-on-11 sets. Even though quarterbacks were instructed not to throw Mayle’s way, it was solid experience for the rookie to integrate himself as a route runner in Cleveland’s offense. The Browns expect Mayle to be full-go by training camp and are hopeful he’ll push for early playing time, too.

3) Offensive formations have been interesting

Tight end Rob Housler was lined up as the outside receiver on more than one occasion. All 6-foot-5 of wide receiver Rodney Smith stood in the slot and hauled in a 20-yard pass a on seam pattern in the middle of the field. A passing drill had Terrance West at receiver. Another formation had Mayle in the backfield as a running back before he split in motion out wide.

“Flip’ (offensive coordinator John DeFilippo) has some unique things that he’s putting in that, just looking at them from a defensive perspective, are very challenging,” Pettine said.

4) Mental repetitions big for young quarterbacks

While Josh McCown ropes in the first-team repetitions, Manziel and Connor Shaw mimic his every movement off to the side – even on running plays. Last year, it was suggested the pair of young quarterbacks use practice for the mental repetitions. This year, it appears to be required and seems to be helping.

“I thought (Manziel’s) done an outstanding job so far grasping what we’re doing,” Pettine said. “I thought he made some real nice throws today. He’s had his days where he struggled, but that’s natural – No. 1, learning a new offense and No. 2, going against a defense that is significantly ahead just due to chemistry and cohesion and knowledge of the book. I think we all feel good about where he is.”

5) Other nuggets

Rodney Smith made a number of plays Tuesday. He gallops across the field and is consistently getting open. Remember, the Browns claimed the wide receiver from the Vikings last October. The 25-year-old from Florida State was only active for three games in 2014 and has yet to catch an NFL pass, but as Pettine reminded reporters recently, it’s extremely hard for a young player to jump in midseason and earn playing time. It’s only June, but there is intrigue in Smith’s size and newfound comfort in DeFilippo’s offense.
When K’Waun Williams broke up a pass on Andrew Hawkins – at least his third breakup of the day – defensive coordinator Jim O’Neil literally busted out an Irish dance jig and screamed, “Not in his house Hawk! Not in K’Waun’s house.” The Browns also used Williams in a variety of blitz packages throughout the OTA. Pettine said perhaps nobody’s leap in 2015 has been as noticeable as the second-year cornerback.
“A lot of it’s just a credit to him that he took that time from January to April,” Pettine said. “You could see he looks different physically. He’s bigger, but he’s leaner. He’s moving better. It’s great to see him go against Hawk in the slot. Those are some of the battles I look forward to the most watching during practice.”
Wide receiver Dwayne Bowe nicked up his knee on a touchdown he scored against cornerback Tramon Williams. Pettine said he may sit out Thursday’s OTA, but it is nothing serious.
Linebacker Karlos Dansby and fullback Malcolm Johnson were not in attendance Tuesday, but had notified the team of the previous scheduling conflicts.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...84-89bd416d8cde

Is this a reporter who is employed by the Browns?

Awesome news to hear about Williams. Haden said today that Williams is the best nickel he's ever seen. High praise.

It's awesome to hear about someone who took the offseason so seriously. What a work ethic.

I'm stoked to watch him play.

5 observations from Browns OTAs

Kevin Jones
Staff Writer

In addition to signing Dylan Sutcliffe, the Browns held an OTA practice on Tuesday. Here’s what we saw.

1) DB Justin Gilbert is making plays

Gilbert’s recovery speed and pure athleticism were on full display Tuesday. In an 11-on-11 drill that had the Browns offense in the red zone, the cornerback broke up consecutive passes on quarterback Johnny Manziel, diving and batting the ball away at the last moment. After the second knockdown, his defensive teammates broke out in a chorus of cheers, loudly approving of his Tuesday practice session.

“He’s comfortable,” cornerback Joe Haden said. “He’s making plays.”

The changes from Gilbert have been all about paying attention to minor details – knowing where to be in zone coverage, taking more detailed notes in meetings and, plainly, more seasoning. It is worth noting that Gilbert had a shaky junior season at Oklahoma State before picking off six passes his senior year and proving to be one of college football’s preeminent cornerbacks.

“I definitely see changes, but I think you said it – probably too early,” coach Mike Pettine said.
“It’s just all about consistency. Just coming in here, perfecting his craft every day, and right now it’s so far so good.”

As of now, Gilbert and fellow second-year defensive back Pierre Desir have been locked in with the second unit as the outside cornerbacks. Gilbert’s repetitions with the first unit could see a bump if days like Tuesday keep happening.

2) RB Duke Johnson and WR Vince Mayle enter the fray

After tending to a family matter last week, Johnson was back in a big way Tuesday. Defensive linemen aren’t allowed to have contact with running backs, but it’s likely they would not have even had the chance to on some of Johnson’s runs. His explosiveness is apparent and all signs are pointing toward the rookie from Miami crafting a unique, but siginicant role by September.

“There was one of the runs in the team period that unless we were playing flag football, that would have been a 40- or 50-yard chunk,” Pettine said. “He’s got a lot to learn, but he’s probably a typical rookie where he is right now.”

Mayle sported a red non-contact jersey because of his recent thumb surgery but still saw extensive action. The 6-foot-2, 225-pound rookie lined up as the outside receiver in several 11-on-11 sets. Even though quarterbacks were instructed not to throw Mayle’s way, it was solid experience for the rookie to integrate himself as a route runner in Cleveland’s offense. The Browns expect Mayle to be full-go by training camp and are hopeful he’ll push for early playing time, too.

3) Offensive formations have been interesting

Tight end Rob Housler was lined up as the outside receiver on more than one occasion. All 6-foot-5 of wide receiver Rodney Smith stood in the slot and hauled in a 20-yard pass a on seam pattern in the middle of the field. A passing drill had Terrance West at receiver. Another formation had Mayle in the backfield as a running back before he split in motion out wide.

“Flip’ (offensive coordinator John DeFilippo) has some unique things that he’s putting in that, just looking at them from a defensive perspective, are very challenging,” Pettine said.

4) Mental repetitions big for young quarterbacks

While Josh McCown ropes in the first-team repetitions, Manziel and Connor Shaw mimic his every movement off to the side – even on running plays. Last year, it was suggested the pair of young quarterbacks use practice for the mental repetitions. This year, it appears to be required and seems to be helping.

“I thought (Manziel’s) done an outstanding job so far grasping what we’re doing,” Pettine said. “I thought he made some real nice throws today. He’s had his days where he struggled, but that’s natural – No. 1, learning a new offense and No. 2, going against a defense that is significantly ahead just due to chemistry and cohesion and knowledge of the book. I think we all feel good about where he is.”

5) Other nuggets

Rodney Smith made a number of plays Tuesday. He gallops across the field and is consistently getting open. Remember, the Browns claimed the wide receiver from the Vikings last October. The 25-year-old from Florida State was only active for three games in 2014 and has yet to catch an NFL pass, but as Pettine reminded reporters recently, it’s extremely hard for a young player to jump in midseason and earn playing time. It’s only June, but there is intrigue in Smith’s size and newfound comfort in DeFilippo’s offense.

When K’Waun Williams broke up a pass on Andrew Hawkins – at least his third breakup of the day – defensive coordinator Jim O’Neil literally busted out an Irish dance jig and screamed, “Not in his house Hawk! Not in K’Waun’s house.” The Browns also used Williams in a variety of blitz packages throughout the OTA. Pettine said perhaps nobody’s leap in 2015 has been as noticeable as the second-year cornerback.

“A lot of it’s just a credit to him that he took that time from January to April,” Pettine said. “You could see he looks different physically. He’s bigger, but he’s leaner. He’s moving better. It’s great to see him go against Hawk in the slot. Those are some of the battles I look forward to the most watching during practice.”

Wide receiver Dwayne Bowe nicked up his knee on a touchdown he scored against cornerback Tramon Williams. Pettine said he may sit out Thursday’s OTA, but it is nothing serious.
Linebacker Karlos Dansby and fullback Malcolm Johnson were not in attendance Tuesday, but had notified the team of the previous scheduling conflicts.

Link

This is good to hear.

Indeed. I also liked reading that Gilbert seems to be turning it around. Duke Johnson seems to be turning some heads, and I'm really curious to see Rodney Smith on the field.

And Pettine said he looks leaner and bigger than last year, too! Williams and Hawkins has gotta be the best battle here!

K1 had a hell of a rookie year. Might have been the best slot corner performance we have had since Cutch was sliding inside at times. I expect a big year for him. I think we will be in a lot of nikel and dime this year, just because that is where our talent is at.

Great to hear the praise of Gilbert. I dont think he is our #1 from day 1 but I could see him taking over for Williams before the season is done.

All those formations wow who ever came up with all of those, its almost like he took several pages out of Al Saunders play book, lol thats right he did lol. We did a lot of this with Chud, getting the big TE out wide. I like the idea of getting these backs out into the patterns as legit threats. I think all 3 of our backs can catch and will get more and more opportunities.

Many years ago, the Broncos had a receiver names Rod Smith. They did not get much out of him the 1st 2 years he was on the roster, but they got really good production from years 3-11, before finally dropping off in year 12, and heading into retirement after that season.

I am counting on our Rodney Smith doing no less. (well ...... maybe we'll just hope that he becomes a player for us anyway)

Fluff.

He is.

Nonetheless, if we ignore the embellishments there are still some facts in there. If we buy into the glittering generalities we can become falsely encouraged. But if we dismiss those and focus only on the facts we get an idea that some players are improving.

That says nothing in regards to the future. Only that on that day some of them were doing well.

As opposed to the Anti-Fluff pieces...lol

And by Anti-Fluff, you mean most posts on the board!

Yup,,, But so what?

Well actually I'm just busting his chops. Super Brown is a true Brother Fan of mine.

But if I class Anti-Fluff it would be an Article from Grossi? or LaConfora who have a stone to grind with us.

As for this writer, he's a staff Writer so if there was an abundance of negative he would not write about them...just some positives. But facts are facts - I'm sure he made some great plays on the ball - I'm sure the D in general hooped and hollered in reaction.

On a negative side, I don't wish to see his athleticism and catch up speed...I'd rather read exploits of him covering the WR like a Pocket Watch in his vest.

As Ddubbia stated everyone has to absorb the true information and facts then spit out the embellishments and make their own observations. I'm sure many will have different observations from that.

But what I will not adhere to is that every positive article staff writer or not. Doesn't have to be ignored as false in one clean swoop of "FLUFF" and then every negative source of information...well that has to be "REALITY" lol

Here is the reality of the Offense. It will look good at times in Camps and in preseason game, but it SHOULD struggle a lot in the first 4-5 games. I hope all don't get too over confident from the touch football part and then when real football starts we do not flow the way we expect to then turn on the O. It is the REALITY, I know it I expect it and if we get good flow going from the Onset...its a WOW situation that exceeds my expectations.

jmho

Browns DBs off to early lead as driving position group of 2015 season
Jun 03, 2015 -- 6:00am

The all-hands team: Watching the Browns’ OTA practice on Tuesday, I was astounded by how many times the DBs got their hands on balls.

Almost every note I took was of a DB breaking up a pass. It happened in one-on-one drills from inside the 10-yard line, in 7-on-9s into the end zone, and in team drills in the middle of the field.

K’Waun Williams, Justin Gilbert, Joe Haden, Robert Nelson, Pierre Desir each broke up passes. There were another half-dozen or so in the one-on-one drills before I started noting names or jersey numbers.

For the most part, these were aggressive poke-aways in tight coverage – not the result of errant throws. And the impressive thing was the absence of live pass rush, of course, in the early touch football phase of spring workouts. In other words, the quarterbacks weren’t necessarily rushing throws.

The coverage was just that good.

“That’s a good group,” coach Mike Pettine said. “Those guys are doing a good job, and they’re certainly ahead of the curve.”

There was one good offensive play -- Josh McCown standing tall in the pocket, peering over the center of the defense and rifling a strike to Taylor Gabriel crossing from the right side and breaking inside safety Donte Whitner at the back of the end zone.

Otherwise, it was a dominant day for the DBs. Not unexpected, given the talent, the emphasis on press corner coverage by Pettine, the carryover from last year and the developing attitude that the secondary – the smallest and the feistiest of the defenders – will be the heart and soul of the 2015 Browns.

“It’s par for the course,” Haden said. “We just come into it making sure we get our hands on a lot of balls. Everybody’s playing hard. It’s a competition room, so they know you’ve got to stand out and make plays.”

Go with your strength: In his first season as coach, Pettine overhauled the Browns’ secondary and solidified the position group as the driving force of the defense. In 2014, the Browns led the NFL in opposing quarterback rating (74.1) and were first in the league with 99 pass breakups.

Those marks were more impressive when you consider the Browns ranked 27th in sack percentage.

The vast majority of coaches believes pass defense starts with rushing the passer. Pettine works from the back to the front.

“It feels good because you know the kind of guys that you have around you, and the coaches that you have around you,” Haden said. “They really believe in us, and the talent we have in the room, with Donte, Tramon (Williams), KK (K'Waun Williams), Justin, Pierre’s coming along … we’ve got so many people out there.”

Looking up: As good as the secondary was last year, it figures to be better in 2015, rivaling the Seahawks and Jets for best position group in the NFL.

Start with the fact there weren’t any coaching changes on defense, meaning the holdover players don’t have to learn somebody or something new.

The major personnel change was Green Bay Packers free agent Tramon Williams replacing departed Buster Skrine. Gilbert, last year’s first-round flop, seems more committed and attentive in the early going of his second year. And there are some new wrinkles, such as every cornerback preparing to be able to drop down inside and cover the slot receiver, so as to give offenses unpredictable looks.

And controlling the DB room are Haden, who is reveling in his new leadership role, and safety Donte Whitner.

“I feel very comfortable with the coaches,” Haden said. “I feel very comfortable being able to talk with the players. We know the system, know the scheme. We know it’s going to be a very, very competitive room and one slip and you could be out of the room.”

The only concern at this point is the contract dispute involving Tashaun Gipson, the rare free safety who is both an accomplished ball-hawk and intimidating hitter. Haden begged off from commenting, other than to say, “I hope it’s going to be OK.”

Eventually, Gipson will sign and play out the 2015 season. And then the deep and talented Browns secondary may well dictate the course of the entire team.

“It’s gonna be on us, but we know we have the ability to be the leading group of the team,” Haden said.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=46131

Going into this season CB is a strength of ours especially with Gilbert preparing the way he should be preparing.

jmho

McCown career QB rating is 76.1 did anyone else catch that?

Only those who loved Hoyer n won't let go...lol

yea. or our recievers are that bad?

Yeah ok...like you know what would make them "BAD" oh right fantasy points...

Can't be that McCown sucks right? What does Hoyer have to do with McCown sucking for his 13 year career, can you explain that?

Oh wait a minute its because he has played behind 7 different bad O Lines. He just needs time because he can't handle pressure, pressure makes him play scared and when he is scared he throws Ints and leaves the ball on the ground, gotcha.

Here in Cleveland he won't get pressure because our running game will keep him in favorable down and distances all the time, and that will make it so he doesn't have to play scared anymore. 1st up the NY Jets.

i dont do fantasy. i leave that up to you.

That's a bit different for a Grossi article.

This team doesn't have any strengths.

Only weaknesses.

Fluff articles are bogus.

You know it's getting bad, when even I can look at the name of a poster and already know that it's gonna be trash talking about our Browns

Yeah, Hoyer's 76.8 QB rating is so much better.

J/C

Josh is going to be our Steve DeBerg.

And you can also tell by poster who is either going to back every move the Browns make, or trash the posters who have real concerns about this team.

I definitely have concerns with this team, however, because I have some faith in the coach and think they are building a nice defense, I'm not ready to say this season will be a complete bust. I do think the offense has some serious issues.

Now the really good fans can tell me what a crappy fan I am.

He's the best nickel I've seen since Mark Harper played it wih Top Dawg and Mighty Minnie ... JMHO

Hoyer was 7-6 last season McCown was 1-10..

OK, you are a crappy fan Jules.

I agree that the offense isn't up to standards but I think our running game and defense will be top notch and if we can get the Special Teams to perform well we should at least equal last years record. I thought we were a .500 team last year and while the schedule is a little bit tougher this year, with the additions we made on defense I think it will be better and with another year under the belt for West and Crowell plus the addition of the explosive Duke Johnson I don't see why the Running game shouldn't be improved. On top of all that I think Pettine and the coaching staff should feel more comfortable this year so I don't see why we can't at least be a .500 team this year.

It's just gotten to a point where if anything good is posted, it gets slammed as fluff and we shouldn't dare to follow anything good. I think we all have concerns about one thing or another, but just because we do doesn't mean we need to focus on the bad and ignore the good. I think Pet is going to be a really good coach, we just need to give him time. Go Browns!

**ANTI-FLUFF TRANSLATION PROVIDED BY CLEMDAWG**
===============================================


Quote: "K’Waun Williams, Justin Gilbert, Joe Haden, Robert Nelson, Pierre Desir each broke up passes."

Translation: "Our QB's suck, and are telegraphing all their passes."


Quote: "For the most part, these were aggressive poke-aways in tight coverage – not the result of errant throws "

Translation: "No arm strength."

Quote: "Josh McCown standing tall in the pocket, peering over the center of the defense and rifling a strike to Taylor Gabriel crossing from the right side and breaking inside safety Donte Whitner at the back of the end zone."

Translation: "Blind squirrel finds acorn."

Quote: "Gilbert, last year’s first-round flop, seems more committed and attentive in the early going of his second year."

Translation: "2 X 0 is still 0."

Quote: “It’s gonna be on us, but we know we have the ability to be the leading group of the team,” Haden said.

Translation: "...because everybody else on this team sucks."

You just gotta hope that a guy that size has skill and can make an impact. I'm assuming Ray & Pet brought him in here because they saw something special. I'm beginning to believe that if that is not the case, players don't stay on the roster long.

Not a crappy fan, just a battered fan. And I don't blame you. It is extremely difficult to maintain a positive outlook after 15 off-seasons of unabridged hope that ultimately led to mind numbing despair.

Having said that (falling into trap once again) I do believe that our defense is going to be ferocious, (by that I mean top 3-5 in every category,) and that our offense will be much better (more efficient) than most people think.

I think our line will be top 5 with everyone healthy and the addition of Erving, our running game top 5 with the addition of Duke Johnson, and our passing game will be a surprise to most.

Even though I was a proponent for keeping Hoyer, I am actually excited about McCown, both as a leader and as a game manager. He may not be Rogers-esque, but I expect him to consistently get the ball into the hands of the playmakers. I think that is how the coaches are approaching it, I think he will work very hard to make it happen, and I believe we have the playmakers to make it happen. I think our WR corps is better than most people think, I think our TEs are better than most people think and I think our RBs will be very involved and effective in the passing game as well.

I believe Ray & Pet (and all the other coaches) are working extremely hard to make this happen even though most people will say that the offense is abysmal.

JMHO FWIW

(P.S. I also believe this is the most talented team assembled, by far, since the return. We will actually be cutting talented players to get to 53 this year.)

LOL

Whether you agree or disagree, just an awesomee post!

Classic Clem..and really not far from the truth.

Jut drop the mic and walk off stage.

Leave it to you.

hahah!

Ok, that's hilarious, but the kinda depressing part is that I also think your translations, while tongue-in-cheek, may be closer to the truth than is comfortable.

Can Gilbert play WR?...

No one is saying that. However, I know I am saying that while there are some strengths there are also some weaknesses that are not being addressed.

And when a negative article comes out, you guys rush to dismiss every freaking bit of it.

The double standard is obvious.

Browns hold breath, but don’t think Dwayne Bowe injury serious

Posted by Darin Gantt on June 3, 2015, 12:47 PM EDT

2015 Cleveland Browns Mini Camp Practice Getty Images

The biggest chance the Browns have at a big-time receiver didn’t make it through practice yesterday, though they’re hoping it’s not a big deal.

According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Browns wide receiver Dwayne Bowe left practice with a knee injury, and didn’t return.

“We might hold him out Thursday,” Browns coach Mike Pettine said. “I’ll wait to see the results of it. It wasn’t anything serious, but especially in the spring with anything, we’re going to tend to err on the side of being conservative.”

Bowe apparently got tangled up with a defender and came up limping, which is going to be a concern despite the severity. The Browns lack offensive punch, and without Bowe, it would be even worse.

But Pettine said he expected Bowe back next week, regardless.

“He’s been good,” Pettine said. “He’s been a veteran. He’s been a good role model for those young guys. Just the ability to win outside some of the back-shoulder throws we’ve been able to make. The other day, the first play of our red zone period, he caught a touchdown up the seam. Just a bigger body with a big catch radius. To me, that’s just something you can’t coach. We’re glad he’s here.”

Now they just have to wait to see when he’s back there.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...injury-serious/

Do you think????

Bowe will be our endzone goto target. He'll play all downs there, his reps will be split otherwise (just a hunch anyway.)

Which negative article did we dismiss? The one where Haslam was trading the Browns for the titans? The one where Johnny was going to miss Otas? One where he was gonna be placed on IR? The one where the Browns were 90% finished with him? Or the one a few days ago where the Browns were done with him? The one where we were trying to trade first round picks for a QB on crutches because a coach that jilted Jimmy said so? lol

Other than the QB position, there isnt a lot of negativity with this team. The Farmer stuff is just old news now. The thing with Shanny is a negative but you and I have had a lot of discussions over the years as I prefer more inside smash mouth inline blocking and also prefer the Coryell passing offense and have been against the WCO and zone scheme. Shanny opened my eyes to its benefits last year but I still have my preference lol

You have preached the advantage of zone blocking and I finally got to see it actualy work here and I am glad we are keeping much of it but also going back to the inside runs that I prefer. We both kinda get what we want out of the run game for once.

I do however like the swing passes to the backs in this offense cause if they get past that first defender there is probably 30plus to be gained. I love this OL and our Backs.

Bowe was probably a waste of 7 mil and thats on Farmer. Hartline however was a steal and GaBriel has the making of something special.

Our sencondary has become what we expected our DL to be before the nightmare of injuries. Now we have the DL getting healthy also.

Just not a lot to be all depressed about imho.

j/c

so it looks like our WR corp will be:

WR1 - Bowe
WR2 - Hartline
Slot - Hawkins

Backup - Gabriel
Backup - Mayle
Backup - Benjamin


if someone surprises in camp I can see us cutting Benji and/or stashing Mayle on the PS

Actually if you set aside the busting of chops and read what I have stated about McCown...I've explained but its ignored. But I have been real.
All our options revolved around mediocre QBs...we did check into Bradford but did not go far.

Ok where is this voice and music coming from...lol something about Trophy's. gone lol

I've mentioned before that what I have learned about McCown is with a clean pocket he is very accurate. In his career he never really had a clean pocket. It not about the weapons in his good stint with the Bears he had a clean pocket from years past...he'll have an even better one here. At worst he will be mediocre but with that clean pocket he just might surprise us...I've said it several times. You have your mind made up that he sucks cause it fits your mindset right now. Nothing I can say or do about that.

Pblack...I've never played fantasy I thought I was the only one...lol
You act like we got crap on this team.
Bowe, Hartline, Hawkins, Gabriel and take your pick...These guys aren't Bums. If you think so then you just don't get it. Are they Elite? Lets see...Oh maybe we have a shot at a Championship cause last I looked Elite WRs help their teams SOOOOOoooo much that they don't win Championships. It ain't about the WR...if you guys don't get that, sorry. not my fault.

not impressed with Gabriel. never saw Bowe, Hartline play. hawkins is ok. would have kept austin.

what can i say? i read about the balls batted down and the first thing i thought is our recievers are not getting seperation. lol

McCown plays scared Tab, its why your always beating the O Line drum. You think the teams we face aren't aware of his short comings? Really? You get a hit or 2 on this guy and he will toss it up or put it on the ground. He's fumbled nearly as many times as he has thrown Ints. He is accountable for 2-3 turnovers per game for his career.

Then we come to the best part. We will run the ball. And we will no doubt but when we can't run the ball, and that will happen too McCown will be put in situations where he has to make plays with unfavorable down and distance and then comes his greatest fear, pressure and up it goes or down to the ground it will fall.

But if the Browns were playing against McCown what would the book read like for you? Mine hit him because he plays scared. Run blitz the hell out of the Browns and hit McCown.

You look for the good in all things Brown, try stepping back and looking at it from a opponents POV. How do you or would you defend this guy???

Good grief. You are one talented fortune teller - I am impressed with how clearly you see the future.

Let's be clear - I know I wanted to keep Hoyer. I think tab and many others did. Having said that - I was making excuses or projections for why Hoyer played so incredibly bad in so many games last year ... I was projecting better play for Hoyer than we actually got from him last year. That was what I did for Hoyer ...

With Hoyer out of the picture - all the QB options were mediocre at very best. That or give up the future and 3 first round picks for Mariota. The best option at QB in the off-season was giving up too much for Bradford who is an injury waiting to happen. Many wanted Ryan (because of perceived potential) - who is possibly or probably going to be beaten out of the starting role by Hoyer ... So we have McCown. Nobody is jumping for joy that we have McCown. No-one is saying we scored a major coup by having McCown.

What we seem to have is two camps - one where they want to project doom and gloom and b*tch about McCown regardless of whatever the topic is. They have already decided the season is lost because we have McCown. And if anyone tries to project why McCown might be or should be better than his 1-10 record, they get slammed. The other camp seems to be acknowledging it is what it is - highlighting there are some valid reasons why we might see improved performance and certainly a better W/L statistic from McCown while he is in a Browns uniform.

What's funny to see is the haters that are totally entrenched in their hate for Farmer and McCown - claim that they are fair and balanced.

Given that he was a rookie undrafted WR, what about Gabriel leaves you unimpressed with how he performed?

Thanks its nice to know someone appreciates my talents....

I don't think so. I think we are going to have a fairly potent offense. I think a lot of people are going to be suprised.


We are going to win our division.

It shouldn't matter where a player was drafted - if he's on the team, how good is he and how much can he and will he contribute. Surely that's the only thing that matters?

I liked Gabriel and thought that with better QB play he would have had a very good season. Too many times he beat his man and then the ball was not placed well for him to make YAC.

Or, he beat his man and wasnt seen or targeted.

And Boom Goes the Dynamite!

I'm pretty sure every browns fan wants you to be right.. I know I do.

Or possibly our DBs are ahead of the WRs and are just playing well and are in the right positions.

As for separation we got a lot of separation last season. from Hawkins and Gabriel.

We never should have gotten rid of Austin? We signed him to a one year contract why? Cause others had questions on his INJURY HISTORY so the best he could do is a show me contract. Guess what? Once again he spent the last 4 games on IR and had surgery I believe. So that is why we didn't sign him. If we did sign him would you be questioning the FO cause we signed a guy who has been on the IR like several seasons in a row? (I have no clue how often I just no he's been injured a lot).

Austin didn't impress me with knowledge of the plays - many times I saw Hoyer schooling him. He used his body nicely and caught the ball well inside positions. Bowe has that kind of body and talent plus he can stretch a field vertical (not thrown in KC's WCO) Two years ago or last time there was trouble in KC we had people admonishing whoever was in control of the personnel for not going after him. Yes, his production has gone down a lot, coincidentally with the arrival of Smith running the Reid WCO. Is he done...we'll find out but has to be an improvement on Austin.
Hartline is a complete bonus cause he is not replacing anyone. I remember looking at him a lot cause Vers was pimping him for us to draft. But I know Vers is an OSU guy so I thought just another OSU pimp - I remember well cause I was wrong and I loved Hartline and wished we did draft him. He is not old, and is just one of those smart WRs who know how to get open, most of them are smurfs, this one is not. Good size, good hands and good route runner.

Hawkins and Grabriel - well Gabriel will only get better, nice words not impressed with Gabriel. Why? He does what is needed to be solid, Good Hands, Runs good routes and plays hard nose football. Sorry that doesn't impress you with but those kind of WRs are usually on Championship teams.

If we had a Franchise QB this group of WRs would be enough to be a Championship team.

I also can only hope on our new O, meaning I cannot speak with certainty if Flip can create the same space Shanny did last season. Our WRs have no problems creating separation - we just have to be in the right play call at the right time.

We got OL, We got RBs, We got WRs, We got TE/H-Back (honestly Cameron did not give us production last season and we all know his injury history and possible retirement from them.

Blocking talking about not impressive the kid Agnew was not.

Can Flip have the X's n O's? can McCown and/or Manziel produce the way they should? But WRs will have no bearing on our Results or I should say Lack of them.

jmho

Go be a homer somewhere else!



Most years the doom & gloom is justifiable because this team stinks and there really is very little hope BUT...

With that being said, from top to bottom this is the best looking roster we've had since returning in 1999 excluding the TE position.

On paper, our defense should be elite and our offensive line is a top five in the league easily, it's not that farfetched to expect a solid season.

If you win in the trenches every single play, you set yourself up for success on both sides of the football, and that's how this team is being built.

I love love love Hartline he is Brian Brennen all over again. By far the best addition to the team. Agreed with most of your post, now how rare is that.

We are a good QB away but man the QB is going to kill us....Wished we had been able to get Bradford or at least to have re-signed Hoyer if we had we would have made the playoffs this year, maybe we could hjave evn gone deep with Bradford. With McCown we are sunk.

Brian Hartline is just about the polar opposite of Brian Brennan.

Brennan was a slower, shifty, short (5'9") receiver with terrific hands that relied on smarts to get open over the middle of the field.

Hartline is probably in the upper 20% for long speed for receivers in the NFL, is 6'2", and makes almost all of his plays on the perimeter. He plays the sideline as well as anyone in the NFL.

The only things they have in common is their first name and that they play for the Browns.

Let me narrow this down for you Brennen was clutch and every time I have seen Hartline play he always seems to be the guy making the clutch play. In that respect he reminds me of Brennen and always has.

Gabriel was like top 2 or 3 in YPC last year. He was wide open and the QBs missed him horribly on a dozen of what should have been gimmie TDs. Frankly, I can't remember the last time a rookie receiver for the Browns impressed me the way he did. I have made no bones about it, I see the same qualities in this kid that Steve Smith is still using to beat the likes of Haden.

I think he is our best receiver and has the potential to be a franchise receiver for us. Now can McCown throw an accurate enough deep ball?

I found this article very interesting will only post part of it. It was basically showing what MCCown did with the Bears vs Cutler but since i dont care about Cutler, left his off.

Profootball focus

All categories with a * are normalized so that the league average is 0.0.
Positives

• Graded at +6.5 on passes in 11-20-yard range.
• Showed well on 2nd-and-Long (+3.9) and 3rd-and-Long (+4.4).
• Threw well to the middle (+9.9) and right (+6.4).
• Posted league’s highest grade when pressured: +8.9.
• Graded well against the blitz (+9.0) and against a traditional rush (+8.5).
• Was at his best on 7-to-8-yard drop-backs (+15.7).
• Excelled in the 2.6-to 3.0-second range (+12.5).
• Graded at +18.1 when throwing to wide receivers (by alignment) including +9.5 to the slot and +8.6 to outside wide receivers.
• Best routes were hitches (+5.9) and go routes (+7.0).

Negatives

• Graded at -1.4 on designed rollouts.
• Posted an average +0.1 grade on passes in the 31-to-40-yard range.
• Graded at -0.9 on 4-to-6-yard drop-backs.
• Graded at -0.6 on slants and -0.9 on post routes.

Tendencies

• Faced the blitz only 27.6% of the time, eighth-lowest in the league.
• Above the league average with 21.4% of drop-backs coming in the 4-to-6-yard range.
• 17.3% of drop-backs lasted 3.1-3.5 seconds, highest percentage in the league.
• Threw only 40.1% of passes outside the numbers, sixth-lowest in the league.
• Threw 78.3% of passes to wide receivers (by alignment), fourth-highest in the league.
• Threw only 14.5% of passes to tight ends, tied for the lowest percentage in the league.
• 11.6% of targets were slants, second-highest in the league.

-------------------------------------------------------

Now this wasnt what we saw at all with the Bucs, he got hit early and often and his eyes went from focusing downfield to looking for pressure but nonetheless I think these stats are interesting.

QB...egad, I lost all faith in Hoyer it wasn't a system breakdown or lack of skill players...yes we had a downgrade on Mack. You can overcome the lack of ONE player in a 5 man Unit...you get into 2 or more that is when things fall apart.

This time last year Hoyer was not doing to good either, he had rust from the surgery and it was a new system.

Btw for those who have claimed D winning a lot (don't know if its this thread or not, they all seem to meld into one) but Hoyer did win a lot of games at least 4 with Last minute drives (going into his 3 from 2013). That is what bothers me most, without any reason he just disappeared. And not a little off his game. Again I cannot stress that fact that in his 4 games after being anointed THE GUY from Bengal game one...It statistically was one of the worst 4 game stretches in the HISTORY of the NFL (according to PFF). He just fell apart like no other I ever saw. How you can spend so much time reveling his game as a loss for us, I don't know big guy. To each their own.

As for McCown yes he has a long history as a back up on some not so good teams and never on a team with a stellar OL, never. Will teams game plan to stop him...guess what that is good cause teams have not game planned to stop our QB in quite some time! That is where our OL and Run game comes in. We win if that is the case...if they don't we have a QB who is very good in a clean pocket. Do I think he will get pressure some time...of course but I'm talking in the long run of a game for the most part he will be clean. If they have to start taking chances to get to him...that is where the run game will have a look from the D they haven't seen. I expect our OL to be licking their chops as if they were at a team BBQ and a bunch of Porter House Steaks are reserved for them

For me McCown is going to be an Unkown...he might end up just average at best and we are looking at possibly a 7-9 win season.

jmho

Coincidentily,His downfall happened about the same time as his yapping about a contract extension.I said this at the time;
"When a player starts concerning himself with payday,he forgets about Sunday."

deep passing https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/05/29/qbs-in-focus-deep-passing-2/

Very very interesting

Small Ball
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/05/27/qbs-in-focus-short-passing-2/

mid level throws
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/05/28/qbs-in-focus-intermediate-passing-2/

Hoyer excelled in the mid level game but was horrible in the deep ball and also below average in the short game.

Was very impressed with the stats on Teddy

route running, had a hard time catch the ball without falling to the ground.

OMG you are still blaming him for that Hoyer turd toss in the saints game lol I lost respect for the cult following that day.

Have to disagree with this. Our Oline totally broke down after Mack's injury. No backup plan and too much positional shifting on the Oline and also the offensive system in general caused most of the issues with QB protection and run blocking. JMHO.

We were still top 10 in pass protection without Mack (I believe 6th or 7th but a drop from 2) but our run game without him plummeted.

Yup... every defense we faced was stacking the line baiting us and daring us to throw while we tried and tried to open up the ground game with 20% of an NFL quality oline.

Tab you may not understand this because you don't want too. But I have a hard time watching the only let me say that again so you may (doubtful) understand. We just turned our backs on the ONLY QB to post a winning (not losing) record with this team sense 2007 for a QB that has done nothing but lose for 13 years that is with the exception of 2013 when he for the 1st and only time won more games then he lost 3-2 for the year.

I was fully on board with Bradford, and was relieved to see they had a plan to truly improve the position but that fell thru and we were once again looking at all that McCown has to offer (more losing). It wasn't a move up it was a move down. With Hoyer there was a damned good chance that he would bounce back he had it in him to win, he did win under some pretty damned tough conditions.

Hoyer was a good a chance as we had, and with McCown we got a 13 year career to look at, and it all points in one direction, LOSER. He plays scared and he has been a loser for all but one year of his career and you wonder why I prefer Hoyer to McCown? SERIOUSLY? Sorry but if you can't understand that then there isn't anything I can say that will change your mind.

You think Hoyer is the 4 game bad guy, I think he is the 10-6 good guy who hit a bump in the road (OK had a Train wreck) but Hoyer is a tough cookie he put up with a lot that wasn't right and made it work when nobody else could and his character and leadership was off the charts. He is the guy who would work to get it right and fix whats wrong and come out of the 4 games you base your entire opinion on better for the experience, because thats who he is. You gave up he never would and I love guys who will fight thru adversity. Hoyer was that guy who all his team mates were ready to run thru walls with and for and you wonder why I have a hard time watching that leave to be replaced by McCown.... And you all think I'm nuts...................

The reality for me is that you think this FO and staff are perfect in everything they do. I tried to warn you all about PF and who was right? This was a bad choice by the FO I still think the plan is to lose, thats why they drafted Irving so they have Macks replacement and they get the top pick in the draft and we go on to win multiple SB as a result. But this season is about losing sad to say.

Then you must live in some alternate reality because NO ONE has come even close to saying/suggesting/alluding to this.




And you tried to tell us how Banner was here to save the day and "be ready to be shocked". Were you right then too? Let me save you (and others on here) the suspense. You aren't omniscient so don't try to come on here acting like you have all the answers. You've said stuff on this board that was dead wrong and then go hide for a year until your next "All IN" pitch. To quote the legendary Austin Carr "Get that weak stuff outta here!!"

Hilarious.

I also told you all that Richardson was a BUM, and you didn't believe me then. Well who was right, come on confess. I was all in with Chud and had Hoyer not gone down (left that part out didn't cha) we would have shocked everyone we were on the verge but it's true I was wrong but I have been right far more then most of you have. And all while having an orginal thought which I have never seen ever come from you.

Never said anything about Banner good or bad so that is a bald faced lie. Whoops I spoke the truth..... Don't be offended I know its likely uncharted territory for you............

I agree with most of your points on Hoyer except for the embellishment. Guys did not want to run through walls for him, and he does not possess this awesome leadership that you claim he does.

But I do think he deserved to be the starter for the Cleveland Browns this year and get a chance to improve on last year. A chance to improve on his skill. A chance to improve on his leadership. And his confidence. When he lost his confidence, it was over.

But I believe the Browns are better with him than McCown.

Damn right I liked Richardson. Not denying that, particularly after his rookie year. The difference is I don't strut around telling people how dumb they are for not agreeing with me and saying how little football knowledge they have after going all in on Banner when he arrived. And yes, you did say Banner was the answer THE MINUTE the guy walked through the doors in Berea. You hated Holmgren so much (and justifiably) that anyone who followed was getting a statue built by you. It blew up in your face and you went into hiding only to pop back up again when Hoyer was on the outs.

Offended?... I'm not offended. This is just a message board. But if I ever do become offended, I can just follow your standard practice and go M.I.A for a year in the hopes that posters forget what I said and start from scratch.

Trent Richardson has since busted, that much is true, but was 950 yards and 11 TD's really a bust of a rookie year!? I didn't think so. I was really, really hurt when the guy was traded. They shipped off the #3 overall pick a mere 18 games into his career. Even worse, that extra pick turned into Johnny Manziel.

I had the hardest time figuring out why he was so damn hard on himself after bad performances. You could tell with his body language in the media after certain games that he was flustered and unhappy. Agree with you on the first part though, he was kind of a diva at times after losses. Never really sucking it up and taking blame for his bad performances.

I would like it if Hoyer were still here, but I don't think him being gone is the end of our season though.

why do we keep arguing about the past like we was any good since 99?

we had 2 winning seasons since 99, yet nobody wants to argue those teams, only the craptastic ones.

People will tell you the 2007 team was craptastic.

That was the most fun I've had as a Browns fan since the early 90s. Right up until Game 16.

You can disagree all you want. The worse Hoyer's play was the more teams played the run, adding to the box. I didn't see Hoyer running for his life, getting his arm hit as he couldn't transfer his weight...I saw Hoyer have to make an adjustment as yes we had to compensate for the retreads playing Center. But we did - its called OL adjustments as said you can miss one of the regulars Pro-Bowler and all and make adjustments cause in teams football life must go one. Even if we lost Thomas (bite your tongue) we could put a Greco there and make sure we have a Chip blocker like one of our blocking TEs, You make do.

Again if you start down grading too many positions in the unit you are in trouble. For example initially we put Greco over to Center as he was the most capable and we thought we were prepared for this situation by having a guy who started like 13 games for the SB champions....lo and behold McQ sucked...so we ended up downgrading the Center position no matter how capable Greco was he was no Mack...and the drop off from RG Greco to McQ was a chasm.
If you notice we dropped that solution in one game and went with the bums at center and try to adjust. Which we did.

I saw mistakes from Hoyer that he simply did not transfer his weight with absolutely no physical presence. Yes, Mack was missed...no it did not have a major consequence in the play of Hoyer...whatever happened with him was between his ears.

This imaginary disaster at OL we had to make adjustments and we did. And don't think for one second I'm saying the OL unit was just as good, cause I'm not. I'm saying we couldn't run as a team more due to teams able to attack all the gaps aggressively and have a 2nd tier back there to mop up. Did the Centers leave a bigger gap to get comprimized yes they did but we could not adjust cause the numbers just weren't in our favor.

Pass blocking is another story all together - cause when we play faked which was a lot we had plenty of time. And straight Pass Pro we were able to compensate the pocket so that we had pocket integrity.

Sorry I know what I saw. It was not good...got to run!

I thought this post was about updates from mini camp not crabbing back and forth about the past..... silly me looking here for camp news.

Sorry BUT I was no fan of Banner. Having said that Banner did a decent job I had no ax to grind pro or con on the guy your either lieing or your memory is playing tricks on you but me a big Banner guy nope sorry wasn't me.

Finally some honesty thanks Rish, its impossible to debate when for some unknown reason people hate on the guy when he was the only guy we had here that we actually won games with since 2007. What that says is its been hard next to impossible for this team to just win to let and or endorse Hoyer not being here IMO is insane......

I think the answer you're looking for is easy to see if you break down the actual play by position. Since we actually scored less points in 2014 than in 2013, it's no wonder people weren't wowed by Hoyer. If you look at how our WR's had to stand there like they were waiting on punts for those long passes, it's hardly a wonder people weren't wowed by Hoyer. If you look at the rushing game early in the season and the amount of rushing TD's verses passing TD's inside the 20, or period for that matter, it's no wonder people weren't wowed by Hoyer. If you look at the complete breakdown in his mechanics as the season wore on, it's no wonder people weren't wowed by Hoyer.

Actually, unless you narrow down to what you're looking at based strictly on the teams W/L record, without considering every other facet of the game, it's no wonder people weren't wowed by Hoyer.

I'm dying..

Browns rookie running back Duke Johnson practices Monday after missing OTAs last week

Browns rookie running back Duke Johnson reported to team headquarters Monday for organized team activities and practiced after missing OTAs last week.
Nathan Zegura, the team’s senior media broadcaster, revealed the news on the organization’s radio show, Cleveland Browns Daily.
Practice was closed to the media Monday, but it’ll be open to reporters Tuesday.
Of the 12 players the Browns recently selected in the NFL Draft, Johnson is the only one who has yet to sign his rookie contract. However, his absence last week at OTAs, which are voluntary, wasn’t related to his contract.
Johnson, a third-round pick, dealt with a family matter in Washington, D.C., his agent, Alex Gavilla, told Cleveland.com last week. Then he attended the NFL Players Association Rookie Premiere in Los Angeles.
Johnson, the University of Miami’s all-time leading rusher, is expected to compete with second-year running backs Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West for a prominent role in new offensive coordinator John DeFilippo’s system. Special teams coordinator Chris Tabor wants to give Johnson plenty of opportunities as a kickoff returner and is teaching him the intricacies of returning punts as well.
“I think going to the Browns, other than the weather, is a great situation,” Johnson said Friday during a video interview with 120Sports.com. “Coming from Miami to Cleveland is kind of big difference in some aspects, but I think me coming to the team, I can help out anyway I can from special teams, kick return, punt return, running back, you know, whatever it takes to help the team win.”
The 5-foot-11, 225-pound Crowell (148 carries, 607 yards, 4.1 average, eight rushing touchdowns) and the 5-10, 227-pound West (171 carries, 673 yards, 3.9 average, four rushing touchdowns) showed promise, at times, as rookies. But the 5-9, 210-pound Johnson is considered a different type of back who can help the offense as a formidable receiving threat, especially on third down.

The Browns finished last season with the fewest receptions (32) and receiving yards (226) among running backs in the NFL, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. DeFilippo has said he wants to use the backs as receivers more often.

“I think that’s one of the reasons the Browns did decide to draft me was because they needed that element in their offense,” Johnson told 120Sports.com. “I think they watched the Super Bowl just like we all did and saw what [running back Shane] Vereen was able to do to help the [New England] Patriots win. And that’s something they’re trying to implement in their offense.”
Vereen, who signed with the New York Giants this offseason, had 52 catches for 447 yards and three touchdowns this past regular season. He added 18 catches for 144 yards in the playoffs, including 11 receptions for 64 yards in the Patriots’ 28-24 Super Bowl win over the Seattle Seahawks.
Johnson wasn’t the only rookie who practiced for the first time since OTAs began.
Wide receiver Vince Mayle, a fourth-round pick from Washington State University, practiced on a limited basis Monday after sitting out last week, Zegura said. Mayle donned a red jersey designated for players who aren’t supposed to engage in any contact and didn’t catch passes, according to the team’s radio show, because he’s recovering from a recent surgery on his right thumb. He suffered a broken thumb during Senior Bowl week in January.
Two-time Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden and veteran inside linebacker Karlos Dansby didn’t practice Monday, Zegura said without explaining their lack of participation. A team spokesman later said neither player is injured. Both of them practiced last week.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns...t-week-1.596671

The Browns finished last season with the fewest receptions (32) and receiving yards (226) among running backs in the NFL, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.

j/c:

A couple of thoughts:

--A lot of people on this board preach that we need continuity. That is a HUGE part of their argument when defending Farmer. I get that. It makes sense and I actually agree w/that line of thinking.

However.......

--Those same people were the ones screaming bloody murder to remove Banner from his job after just one year. That seems a bit odd.

--And those very same people are the ones who didn't want to give Hoyer time to prove himself. The guy had a 10 and 6 record as a starter vs. 1 and 15 for all the other starting QBs for the Browns during the same time period, yet they point to a FOUR GAME STRETCH where he sucked as proof that he was not the answer. That's more than odd.

Think about it for a minute. They preach continuity when defending Farmer, but didn't even give Banner a year despite him making some terrific moves and then throw the QB who had the best winning percentage under the bus for a 4 game stretch.

And then people wonder why I say that so many posters on this board are hypocritical. LOL

--One more point........I wonder if losing Mack, Gordon, and Cameron for long stretches of the season had anything to do w/our scoring fewer points last year than the year before or if it was ALL Hoyer's fault? Is that more sound logic?

Yeah, most teams would score more points while losing 3 Pro Bowlers, right guys?

I yi yi yi............

Im confused. I thought he did NOT impress you. Where you are drafted has to do with expectations. He was u drafted and I had low expectations of him. He heavily outperformed my expectations and was therefore very impressed.

If you give him the credit for 10-6 then he has to also take the blame for fewer points too.

funny. not only you but alot have said the only stat that counts is wins. and now.........

And your point is?

Now Vers if you want to get along with folks here your going to have to stop doing some things:

#1 Stop making sense

#2 Endorse everything and all things done by the FO

#3 Stop thinking for yourself and develop a mob mentality.

#4 Ape whatever anybody in the mob says pro FO is the flavor of the day (subject to change)

#5 When the mob says its OK then you can have an opinion

#6 When the whole thing implodes wait for them to lead you by the nose to why it was a disaster

Get on board with all of that and you will have lots of friends who you can sip Kool Ade with.

#7 Oh gee and most importantly of all be ready to switch over to they all suck and fire everyone as the losses pile up. Be a team player.

Tab this is the only time your likely to ever hear this from me but I think PS nailed it on that post. They did create issues with moving Greco and it was bad enough that they quickly moved him back to guard and as a guard Greco is Ok and is a much better player with Mack next to him. I think his point about not making adjustments is valid as well, but go ahead and point out those adjustments because I missed them?

Sorry Savage, Its past page 4 and every thread seems to morph into a Hoyer thread and other things of the past. You are right.

mourg...I have no idea what you are talking about...???

I'm not blaming anyone for anything...?...

mourg...I didn't say a thing about Mack...did I ?

Vers...on Banner, none of us are the reason Banner got fired...

Banner got himself fired !!!

Not a whole lot has been written about why Haslam up and fired him so suddenly, but it might be that Banner disagreed with his boss one too many times.

I think Mourg is using the quick reply which always responds to the OP instead of the person the reply was intended for. I wish the board would remove that feature. It's too easy to misuse.

I think this is a fair point although I don't know specifically if the same people that are preaching continuity wanted Banner gone. Who are those people specifically?

I can tell you that I was someone who didn't mind being like most others and enjoyed getting my pitchforks out. Demanding perfection. No excuses. You either nail it or I'm going to complain about you until you're gone. I've been that person before. If I could go back in time I would change my position on a lot of things. Complaining and whining comes easy and is therapeutic in a sense. Patience and understanding is hard. It's not easy to preach continuity in the face of stupidity like text gate and letting Hoyer walk and drafting two guys who had the maturity of my 8 year old cousin.

But I came to realize that continuity is the only thing that is going to save this franchise. We cannot develop players and coaches without continuity. Why does it seem like other teams have better players and better coaches? Because those people get to grow into their roles. They get to develop under stable conditions. This is a normal human thing. When starting something new, it takes time to figure it all out and be great at it. I've got news for most everyone, for every JT who is going to be awesome no matter what the circumstances are, there's 19 other guys who can be awesome under the right conditions and are going to fail under the wrong ones.

Stability is the only thing that is going to save this franchise. I can't buy off on the notion that every regime we have hired has been the wrong decision and incompetent. We just gave up on people too easily. I finally realized that.

I have a couple of articles regarding this- if anyone is interested, just PM me. I'd rather not go too far off on a tangent with this thread, as I admittedly can do from time to time.

I'm still not convinced we didn't try to sign him, but it was stalled when $ came in to play. We could have paid him a bunch of money, but given the way he ended the season (not all his fault)I don't think the Browns thought he'd be worth it.



I was and remain totally opposed to the Bradford deal. You can't count on him. He defines injury prone.

No doubt he could have been one of the great ones... but



I don't believe that ANYONE thinks that this FO and Staff are perfect. Not even Eo.

Who's PF?

I hope we win 10 games this year but even if we lose 10 games it is imperative we stay the course with what we have and continue to build on it. We all know our qb situation at this time and our tough schedule so it is possible to lose that many games. If the games are close and we are competitive that would be a plus for the team.

Pig Face for Mike Holmgren. It's his nickname for FO people he doesn't like and thinks, for whatever reason, that it's clever. He now has one for Farmer..."Text". Again, very cute.

What were Mangini's and Banner's nicknames?

"Paul Brown 2.0" and "The Savior" I think that's what he called them.

LOL.

Will good Josh McCown be better than bad Brian Hoyer?

I can't imagine him being any worse...

Even with Hoyer the 2014 Browns relied on the running game to win. When we couldn't run, we didn't win. That's it.

If we can't run the ball in 2015 we won't win, no matter whose under center.

Hoyer proved he can't carry the team when everything around him isn't going perfect.

I'd rather have him over McCown, but I cannot see how Hoyer was irreplaceable.

He's gone though, so the back and fourth debating over his Jekyll and Hyde play last year is just a waste of our energy!

it was another poster who didn't like Gabriel - I liked him.

However - when you are evaluating the talent level of the team vs the rest of the NFL - when evaluating the talent level of your team .... where players were selected in the draft, has no bearing or relevance.

That was one great post Rish.

The problem is this everyone wants continuity but they have different versions of who the players should be.

I know a lot of posters on this board think I want Text gone and I don't I want him to do better and I think he can. Oft times people focus on the 1st part with me and leave the last part out, the "I think he can part". I want stability within the organization itself and I want Text to stick to his job and only his job, thats important because if your focused on someone else s job your not doing yours. And then everything sort of falls apart because we all hate micromanaging and second guessing. From there folks develop a dislike for one another and then it just goes to dysfunctional.

I as do we all tend to focus on what we disagree with, or don't like, we all do it. Don't take that as a desire to watch it implode again cause I don't want that.

I hated that they let Hoyer walk, we won games with Hoyer and all's we have done with anyone else is lose. I saw Bradford as a chance to change all that, but it didn't work out. I think Flip had a huge roll in McCown coming here and its fair for him to have his guy I think when all is said and done Flip will lose his job because of it. You and I know fans aren't looking for us to go backwards even if they preach patience.

I also think Text has done real well at finding roll players but has come up short on impact players, but you can get there by just being a very solid team that makes few mistakes. Its worked for years for BB and it certainly can work here.

Probably my biggest gripe at the moment is that organizationally most driven by our lack of talent at the position we have adopted the theory that we can somehow manage or minimize the QB position and that is totally out of step with conventional thinking which I strongly agree with. You simply IMO can't minimize the QB spot I don't give a rats ass how much you run the ball or for that matter how great your O line is. You can minimize it only to a degree but we have nearly reached the point that one could easily make a case for ignoring it completely.

I think fans are going to be hugely disappointed in the end, and it will be interesting to see how well they hold up come the end of the season.

I think we have some of the pieces to be good but we are missing the most important piece. I think fans will switch over to the dark side, but it won't be me. I'm for staying with what we got provided Text stays off the phone with the sidelines that is. But we have what we need from an organizational HC position. We need to do better and I think we will if we can stop trying to minimize the QB position but instead actually address it.

But nice post Rish well said.

BTW Rish your buddy is a manure spreader a bald faced one at that....................

Nice. Btw---------BTB didn't care for Banner.


Anyway..........other than Rish, no one is addressing some of the points I tried to bring up. Let me try again:


--Most of you are saying that we need continuity and need to give Farmer time. That one year is not enough to evaluate him. I agree w/that stance. I do think his mistakes need to be identified so he can improve in those areas, but I am all for keeping him.

--What troubles me is that the very same people did not say the same thing about Banner. They called him one of The Three Stooges and complained about him daily. Why wasn't continuity an issue then.

--Even more troubling is those same poster's opinions on Hoyer. He won more games than he lost, yet they only point to a FOUR GAME STRETCH as PROOF that he sucked. What happened to giving a guy a chance to prove himself over time? What happened to continuity? What happened to not running guys off at the first hint of trouble?

--One more thing that I find disturbing. How can people not admit that losing three Pro Bowl offensive players was perhaps a big part of the reason why our scoring went down? How was it all on Hoyer? Are you saying Weeden played better than Hoyer? Seriously?


It's situations like the above that makes me doubt the sincerity and trustworthiness of so many of you. Many of these arguments are not fueled by logic and reason or approached w/fairness. They seem to always resort to "Regime Wars" and people choose a side and stick to it no matter what truths are available.

Have a nice day.

I didn't really have an opinion one way or the other on Banner if the truth be told, I was willing to let it play out although I confess to being overjoyed at the dismissal of PF.

I actually liked some of his moves because they made sense to me the biggy was getting rid of Richardson and getting a 1st was nothing short of brilliant but thats also the move that set the fan base on fire for the guy. But me I didn't like Richardson because he sucked, so as I did then and I still do oddly enough to this day give the guy huge Kudos for that move.

But the Banner thing is a total fabrication just so you all know the truth... The guy who is making this stuff up is a fabricator... Not worth my time....

rish...you might be right, but when I come to the board, I look for those who responded to me (re:mac)...and I respond back.

Maybe that feature should be changed...then again, how hard is it to click on REPLY OR QUOTE of the individual you are responding to ????

Banner showed no respect for the Browns nor their fans when he brought in Lombardi. They even tried to sneak him in the back door and hid him from pressers. I said it the day they hired Lombardi that he would be the reason of Banner's demise and it was.

No one had any issues with Banner from day 1,other than I think it was Mac for how Banner had treated his veteran players. After Banner let the conflict between Lombardi and Chud result in another overhaul with chud being fired,what support Banner had was gone at that point and then with the reports of how disrepectful Lombardi and Banner were to coaches being interviewed that they didnt want. That was it.

Banner had fired the coaching staff he hired, fired the GM he hired so I dont really feel people thought keeping Banner was good for continuity at that point lol

Now as for Hoyer, again, I thought he was playing like crap all year and just getting away with really horrible decisions and throws while being propped up by the run game and a defense that was creating turnovers. Law of average finally caught up to him and those same throws that were bouncing off the defenders hands and chest were being caught. he threw into triple coverage probably more than any QB in the league last year. He was the leagues worst QB last year.

I thought Cameron was statistically inflated due to Norv and Chud. I felt he was soft and did not like contact and everything he brought to the passing attack, he stole from the run game.

The loss of Mack should never have produced the results that it did. That loss was all on Farmer. We had the worst group of backup OL in the entire league and he did nothing to address that issue last year.

j/c...
One thing to state about continuity.

Continuity can only be achieved from the present going on forward...you cannot achieve continuity from anything we had here. If they are gone they are gone. I've asked for continuity with Mangini, with Heckert, with Banner and now I ask for it with Pettine.

I didn't thinkin anything was perfect and my way, I had preferences of course but I didn't care if it was a system I didn't buy into. As long as it had CONTINUITY it would in time WORK!

So please don't make relevance of having continuity now with the past in which we simply did not choose to. Its can only start here. Not THEN.

jmho

You can't have continuity simply for the sake of continuity. It has to be someone or a group you believe can or will end up being successful. Banner had a resume' I never liked to begin with. I believed time spent with Banner in charge would end up being time wasted in the end.

With Farmer and Pettine, they have an opportunity to grow into the roles. They have no history in their respective positions. So I at least have hope in them I didn't have in Banner. And in the end, he was his own worse enemy.

Now I know we butted heads on Banner and my reasoning may not make sense to you. But if I believe someone may have the ability to do well, I'll support that. If I don't believe that, I won't.



My opinion of Hoyer was neither great nor poor. Our running game was strong, Hoyer was good. Our running game drops off? So did Hoyer. Still, Hoyer was never going to be the answer at QB and I think most everyone knew it. If you simply wish to base W's and L's only on the QB, then I believe that's a bit short sighted. Had Hoyer actually been a "good QB" I believe you would see a lot more people upset that's he's gone. I just keep remembering WR's waiting on those long balls like they were fielding punts and smile.





Well when the bulk of your scoring inside the 20 was mostly rushing TD's, I believe that enters into it as well. MOST of our scoring were rushing TD's, not a QB throwing for scores.




It may seem like that to you and in some cases I don't doubt your accuracy there. I simply back those I believe have a chance at success with our team and don't back those I don't believe will have success.

I mean if you look at the history of people who have been in charge here since 1999, other than Bruce Ariens, none have gone on to do great things at the respective jobs.

If Farmer were an experienced NFL GM, I would probably feel differently about him remaining here. And according to some, I've been pretty hard on him here. But I think I've been fair. But I do believe he has a chance to grow into the job. But I reserve the right to change my mind at any time.

Speaking only for myself, I actually gave Banner the benefit of the doubt coming in, even when he brought in Lombardi, who most hated, and about whom I had concerns.

I gave Banner credit for the draft trades, and the trade of Richardson, especially getting a 1st for him given the way he had turned out to that point.

I thought that Banner did a nice job of going ahead and hiring Chud, though Arians was my main choice for the entirety of the hiring process to that point, and I was disappointed that he didn't even get an interview here.

I started to sour on Banner when he threw Chud under the bus. Banner did very little to improve the team from 2012 to 2013. He (and mainly Lombardi) did add Hoyer, and that was a good move at the time. However, we were abysmal at positions like ILB, RB, WR, and others. We traded draft picks for future picks, which I didn't have a problem with. We traded our starting RB for a future pick, which I also did not have a problem with. However, these things all adversely affected the 2013 team. It was reported that Banner was behind forcing Chud out. and told Haslam that he could deliver a big name coach. (Kelly was the name most often thrown around) It was also reported that the reason that Banner and Lombardi were fired is because they argued constantly during the whole coaching search process.

Face it, Banner hired Chud, and after one year where the team wasn't exactly flooded with talent, he fired him in a rather unceremonious manner. The Browns came off looking like Bozos to all but those who liked the front office the most deeply.

I picked up the 3 Stooges label because it fit the way they ended the season. They were a joke. 2 of the 3 were then fired. At that point, I was pleased with this.

The reports that have come out since Banner was fired just add to the concerns many had. Reports that he wanted to have coordinators report directly to him as opposed to the head coach are scary, at best. There were other similar reports that amplify the Stooge image for me, and for many others as well.

I thought that Banner did some good things, but some others that made it impossible for him to continue to be taken seriously. That is my view. Others who disagree are welcome to theirs as well.

My thoughts on Banner were hot and cold. I hated him being involved in team personnel decisions, but I thought the way he structured and negotiated contracts was excellent. I also liked the people he acquired on the business side of things.

I think many posters did as well. His business acumen was duly noted-- as he re-configured never before seen media contracts, a stadium renovation (in Philly as well) ,and hired some young talent (at least perceived) in the world of the NFL. I think the perceived part as come to fruition for the most part.

But what people originally feared was his desire to run the football side of things and that was viewed as a issue in Philly. It was a failed endeavor here as well. And it all began when he hired the "yes man" in Lombardi as VP of Player Personnel.

Concerns? An understatement indeed...

I said, at the time that I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and I did. I didn't like the hire, but I tried not to judge him on his past.

Unlike Banner, Lombardi "presented" well on TV. He would have served better, not in Personnel, but in PR as a team spokesperson for example. I actually found ML very likeable and was really turned off by the way Banner (mis)treated him...

j/c:

At least some of you tried explaining your reasoning and a couple of explanations made sense.

But, a few of you are using RUMORS of Banner being meddlesome, yet you are ignoring FACTS that Farmer is indeed meddlesome.

And I still don't get how you make a final determination on a QB who had a bad 4 game stretch. That is beyond odd. You completely ignore his good games and record and focus only on a terrible 4 game stretch.

Yet, we are supposed to ignore Manziel's two game stretch and McCown's entire career except for about 5 games? The guy was out of football for a reason. The guy was let go by the WORST football team in the NFL for a reason.

Back to Banner for just a moment. YTown mentioned the trading for picks. Many must see that as a bad thing, however, that particular draft was by far the worst in a long, long time. He got higher draft picks in a quality draft for lesser drafts picks in a crappy draft. He got a first for TRich. I think what a lot of you are missing is that this is the guy who had the long range plan. We always seem to be one regime too late when deciding to give a guy time or pull the plug.

Yet you loved and adored The Big Show, even when he talked about playoff tickets and fans needing a life.

I don't believe that anyone will dispute that statement...

"loved" and "adored" may not be the appropriate words, but yes, I was/am an H&H fan. I do not pretend to know what went on behind the scenes but I liked him as the face of the franchise...

Why would you like a guy who wasn't even here for a good part of the season? Seriously?

I don't know what is true and what is not...

Yeah, okay......

I can't wait for real football to start. Then maybe we can talk about things that are going to happen rather than things from the past. Wait, no, we will still keep on rehashing the same arguments over and over again.

One who doesn't learn from the past is doomed to repeat it.

Obviously, that is the Browns--and most of their fans--mantra.

Did I miss read the thread title or what ?

I agree with the continuity take and have said much the same myself.

Its important to remember that it isn't decided on these boards organizational stability comes from within the organization, we truly have no voice in that part. I will concede that public opinion has in the past (Lerner) had a huge seat at the table but I haven't seen concrete evidence that is still the case. Which is the best news possible..


JMHO

I don't know what to tell people that actually believe public opinion plays no role in this. It is huge. Owners take a ton of stock in perception. And it's not just the fans, it's also the media. The Cleveland media is the biggest collection of no talent hack crybabies I've ever seen. Haslam calling Grossi Mr. Positive is an instant classic, btw.

Haslam's biggest test is going to come this year. When the avalanche of outpouring for Farmers's and/or Pett's head starts forming, he has to have the stones to stay the course. If he thought this offseason was challenging, he hasn't seen anything yet.

Stay the course.

vers...Joe Banner got himself fired, not just by Jimmy Haslam, which was the second time he was fired. Just months before Banner hooked up with Haslam, Banner was fired by Eagles owner Jeff Luruie.

It was reported that Banner was in a power struggle with HC Andy Reid and Lurie fixed the problem by firing Banner.

So Banner got himself fired twice and both times he did it to himself.

JMHO, but I believe Banner was more concerned with asserting power and maintaining power, than he was with building a winning franchise.

I don't think you can have one without the other though Mac?

Rish Love, Love, Love the disclaimer....

bttb...I know there was always talk of winning being the Browns and Eagles priority, but what is going on behind the scenes tells a story. In the case of the Eagles, Andy Reid had enough of Banner and his priorities...I have no doubt about Reid's goals.

Here in Cleveland, there was something in Banner's methods that did not sit well with Haslam, obviously. If the GM is in conflict with his boss and/or the coaching staff, it hurts the teamwork needed to reach the team goals. It's pretty clear that Haslam felt a change was needed.

Every one likes to talk about winning..but sometimes priorities are questioned.

I like that you're a good sport about that. Goes a long way in my book.

Josh McCown, Johnny Manziel appear to dig in as one, two on Browns QB depth chart

Jun 11, 2015 -- 4:07pm
By Tony Grossi | ESPNCleveland.com


Extra Points …


Notes, quotes and observations from Browns OTA practice …


* The quarterback depth chart throughout OTAs has been: 1. Josh McCown, 2. Johnny Manziel, 3. Connor Shaw, 4. Thad Lewis. As OTAs wound down leading into next week’s minicamp, the reps for Shaw and Lewis dropped off severely. “That’s just the nature of the reps based on where we are on the depth chart,” coach Mike Pettine said. “When we wrap up next week, we’ll evaluate where we are at every position and it will be up on the coordinator to get with each position coach to kind of set the plan for training camp. You’ll see some training camp mixing and matching lineups.” So if Manziel is going to make a run at McCown, or if Shaw is going to make a run at Manziel, it will happen then.


* Manziel continued to express some frustration on the field. There was one play where he expected something different on a route by running back Terrance West and another time where he was touch-sacked when protection broke down. “I’ve said this before, he’s been very hard on himself this spring. Even when he’s made a good play, he’s like talking under his breath. He wants it to be perfect,” Pettine said. There was a classic no, no, no/yes, yes, yes Manziel moment when he was chased to the right sideline and then threw back to his left, and 6-5 receiver Rodney Smith elevated above a defender to make the catch in the end zone. “Any play that we’re kicking an extra point afterwards, I’m good with,” Pettine said. There was also a play in which Manziel escaped some pressure with his back to the defense, swung around and flung the ball deep for rookie Vincent Mayle, which would be nice except that Mayle is still wearing a red jersey to protect his broken thumb and is not supposed to be thrown to even though he is running routes. On the play, tight end Gary Barnidge, all alone off to the right, was waving his hands to get Manziel’s attention.


* New quarterbacks coach Kevin O’Connell, who tutored Manziel prior to the 2014 draft, said of Manziel: “My thoughts on Johnny have not changed. I thought very highly of him when I had the chance to work with him before the draft. We spent a lot of time in the classroom talking about the NFL game from a defensive perspective and getting ready to play the hardest positon there is. I can tell you from first time I met Johnny, I still see the same competitive guy that comes into work every day to get better, and that’s all we can ask of him right now.” When asked if he believed Manziel could compete for the starting job, O’Connell answered: “Yeah. I think right now Coach Pettine’s been very clear that Josh is here for a reason but we build everything around competition. That’s how everybody gets better. That’s why it’s important that this spring we’ve been able to install our offense and give these guys the tools that they need come the fall that we can have a competitive environment. I think when you have a competitive environment, the best comes out of all the guys, not only at quarterback.”


* Justin Gilbert looks, and sounds, like a new man after his bust-out rookie season.The 2014 first-round pick added 10 pounds (mostly in his upper body) and seemed more at ease with media, and more comfortable with his teammates. “I think last year pretty much humbled me, a lot, and I learned from my mistakes,” Gilbert said. “Just looking forward from here on out, coming to work every day with the same attitude, love being around my teammates and communicating with them, more than last year. It’s been pretty good so far.” At the end of last year, notable teammates Donte Whitner and Karlos Dansby called out Gilbert and said he needed to mature. He admitted the harsh words bothered him, but, “We fixed everything. Everybody’s on the same page now. There’s no hard feelings toward anyone.”


* New punter Andy Lee, obtained in a trade with the 49ers last weekend, chose to switch to jersey No. 8 (he wore No. 4 in San Francisco) for a very personal reason. Lee and his wife lost their daughter, Madelyn, in January only eight days after her birth. “She had some complications, got an infection and she passed away,” Lee said. “She was with me and my wife for eight days. It’s my way to honor her and glorify her name. It’s been life-changing, some good ways, some bad ways. It’s made me appreciate the two boys that I do have, my wife, my family. It shows how fragile life is. It’s also changed the way I feel about dying. I don’t want to die, I don’t want to leave my wife and kids. But also, I get to see my little girl some day.”


* Lee’s booming leg was evident as some of his punts with the wind forced returners out of the end zone, causing some displeasure on their part. “He’s more of a boomer than a directional kicker,” Pettine said. “It’s a bad combination if your coverage teams aren’t good; you worry about outkicking your coverage. But we feel real good about where we are from a gunner situation. We feel his skill set is a good match for what we’ll have out there.” Pettine acknowledged the parting with Spencer Lanning, who was not seen as a team weakness, was bittersweet. “It was a tough choice because anyone who’s spent time with Spencer just knows what a solid player he is and even more so a quality person,” the coach said. “It was difficult. But that’s life in the NFL. We felt we had an opportunity to make our team better. There was a Pro Bowl punter out there and the cost associated was very manageable. It was a decision we made.”


* Monday is the deadline for the Browns to reduce their second-round tender to unsigned restricted free agent safety Tashuan Gipson, who continues to be absent. Pettine wouldn’t touch a question about the Browns’ next move regarding Gipson. “In all my time in the NFL with contract issues, things are very quickly forgotten when you show up,” he said … Receivers Dwayne Bowe and Brian Hartline were back on the field after nursing injuries last week.


http://espncleveland.com//common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17

Josh McCown, Johnny Manziel appear to dig in as one, two on Browns QB depth chart
Jun 11, 2015 -- 4:07pm
By Tony Grossi | ESPNCleveland.com

Notes, quotes and observations from Browns OTA practice …

* The quarterback depth chart throughout OTAs has been: 1. Josh McCown, 2. Johnny Manziel, 3. Connor Shaw, 4. Thad Lewis. As OTAs wound down leading into next week’s minicamp, the reps for Shaw and Lewis dropped off severely. “That’s just the nature of the reps based on where we are on the depth chart,” coach Mike Pettine said. “When we wrap up next week, we’ll evaluate where we are at every position and it will be up on the coordinator to get with each position coach to kind of set the plan for training camp. You’ll see some training camp mixing and matching lineups.” So if Manziel is going to make a run at McCown, or if Shaw is going to make a run at Manziel, it will happen then.

* Manziel continued to express some frustration on the field. There was one play where he expected something different on a route by running back Terrance West and another time where he was touch-sacked when protection broke down. “I’ve said this before, he’s been very hard on himself this spring. Even when he’s made a good play, he’s like talking under his breath. He wants it to be perfect,” Pettine said. There was a classic no, no, no/yes, yes, yes Manziel moment when he was chased to the right sideline and then threw back to his left, and 6-5 receiver Rodney Smith elevated above a defender to make the catch in the end zone. “Any play that we’re kicking an extra point afterwards, I’m good with,” Pettine said. There was also a play in which Manziel escaped some pressure with his back to the defense, swung around and flung the ball deep for rookie Vincent Mayle, which would be nice except that Mayle is still wearing a red jersey to protect his broken thumb and is not supposed to be thrown to even though he is running routes. On the play, tight end Gary Barnidge, all alone off to the right, was waving his hands to get Manziel’s attention.

* New quarterbacks coach Kevin O’Connell, who tutored Manziel prior to the 2014 draft, said of Manziel: “My thoughts on Johnny have not changed. I thought very highly of him when I had the chance to work with him before the draft. We spent a lot of time in the classroom talking about the NFL game from a defensive perspective and getting ready to play the hardest positon there is. I can tell you from first time I met Johnny, I still see the same competitive guy that comes into work every day to get better, and that’s all we can ask of him right now.” When asked if he believed Manziel could compete for the starting job, O’Connell answered: “Yeah. I think right now Coach Pettine’s been very clear that Josh is here for a reason but we build everything around competition. That’s how everybody gets better. That’s why it’s important that this spring we’ve been able to install our offense and give these guys the tools that they need come the fall that we can have a competitive environment. I think when you have a competitive environment, the best comes out of all the guys, not only at quarterback.”

* Justin Gilbert looks, and sounds, like a new man after his bust-out rookie season. The 2014 first-round pick added 10 pounds (mostly in his upper body) and seemed more at ease with media, and more comfortable with his teammates. “I think last year pretty much humbled me, a lot, and I learned from my mistakes,” Gilbert said. “Just looking forward from here on out, coming to work every day with the same attitude, love being around my teammates and communicating with them, more than last year. It’s been pretty good so far.” At the end of last year, notable teammates Donte Whitner and Karlos Dansby called out Gilbert and said he needed to mature. He admitted the harsh words bothered him, but, “We fixed everything. Everybody’s on the same page now. There’s no hard feelings toward anyone.”

* New punter Andy Lee, obtained in a trade with the 49ers last weekend, chose to switch to jersey No. 8 (he wore No. 4 in San Francisco) for a very personal reason. Lee and his wife lost their daughter, Madelyn, in January only eight days after her birth. “She had some complications, got an infection and she passed away,” Lee said. “She was with me and my wife for eight days. It’s my way to honor her and glorify her name. It’s been life-changing, some good ways, some bad ways. It’s made me appreciate the two boys that I do have, my wife, my family. It shows how fragile life is. It’s also changed the way I feel about dying. I don’t want to die, I don’t want to leave my wife and kids. But also, I get to see my little girl some day.”

* Lee’s booming leg was evident as some of his punts with the wind forced returners out of the end zone, causing some displeasure on their part. “He’s more of a boomer than a directional kicker,” Pettine said. “It’s a bad combination if your coverage teams aren’t good; you worry about outkicking your coverage. But we feel real good about where we are from a gunner situation. We feel his skill set is a good match for what we’ll have out there.” Pettine acknowledged the parting with Spencer Lanning, who was not seen as a team weakness, was bittersweet. “It was a tough choice because anyone who’s spent time with Spencer just knows what a solid player he is and even more so a quality person,” the coach said. “It was difficult. But that’s life in the NFL. We felt we had an opportunity to make our team better. There was a Pro Bowl punter out there and the cost associated was very manageable. It was a decision we made.”

* Monday is the deadline for the Browns to reduce their second-round tender to unsigned restricted free agent safety Tashuan Gipson, who continues to be absent. Pettine wouldn’t touch a question about the Browns’ next move regarding Gipson. “In all my time in the NFL with contract issues, things are very quickly forgotten when you show up,” he said … Receivers Dwayne Bowe and Brian Hartline were back on the field after nursing injuries last week.

http://espncleveland.com//common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17

Some good (general) information in that article. It may be fluff, but it appears that Gilbert has had a major attitude adjustment...

i have high hope for gilbert. lets face it. everyone in the nfl are athletic freaks. but he is a athletic freak among athletic freaks. only his attitude can hold him back.

i dont believe that about johnny. i dont think he is athletic enough to play in the nfl. JMO.

So do I and I believe it to be had by most. He was my choice at the #9 (moved up to #8) spot so I have a "vested interest" in him doing well...

Fluffy, fluff, fluff.

Jun 11, 2015 -- 4:07pm
By Tony Grossi | ESPNCleveland.com



Take what I can get from Mr. Positive.

I don't know how I missed this post but great post Vers. Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer though. And if your ever able to actually hold these folks down and get a straight answer you'll only be disappointed by their logic or lack of...Sad

j/c:

Lots of great quotes from the coaches right now.....


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https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN


https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot


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Thank you for putting that post together Memphis.

As always, it is my pleasure.

Quote:
#Browns Flip said Cam Erving will likely start camp at right guard.

Well I'm pretty shocked at this...was surprised. Wonder what the context of this convo was? Where will Erving play this year? If you read the quote all he says is he will likely start "CAMP' at RG not Start "AT" RG for the team???

Surprised cause I thought Greco did well last season. Better than Scwartz did at RT...also its the easiest OL (RG) position to transition to from College.

So maybe that is where they "START" utilizing Erving and he'll switch to harder positions if necessary down the road?

jmho

I really dont want Gabriel on returns. He is very small and he is our best receiver and our only true deep threat.

Yes, I don't think it is implied Erving is the starter at RG. Just that he'll line up at RG when he is on the field. That could easily (and most likely) be with the second team when TC begins. From there, who knows?

Overall, I take it as Greco and Erving competing to start at RG Week 1. At this point, Greco has the leg up.

Hell, if he is a kick returner, he won't get many chances anyways.

EO...just because Erving is at RG today, does not mean he will remain there. The coaching staff may want to utilize Erv at all the OLine positions, preparing him to fill in where needed.

Having the ability to swap out one player without a huge drop off in performance is rare. When Mack first went down, the Browns had to make two moves to cover for him...moving Greco to center and having McQuistan fill Greco's OG spot.

If Erving can fill in at all the OL positions, without a huge drop off in OLine performance, it will be a huge plus for the offense.

Losing Mack last season exposed a weakness that affected the entire offense...lack of depth at C. Erving backup at Center and OG might be a start...but it does not mean he will end up starting at either position.

Erving isnt a tackle and hopefully they know that by now. He is an interior linemen and if he is as good as we hope, he should beat out a very talented Grecco. likely below average to average tackle or potential probowl interior linemen

I get where you're coming from, but, at the same time, it is football. Where do you draw the line? Do you not have him run crossing routes either?

Tabor is still touting Benji as the guy, so let's hope he's right. I don't want Gabriel hurt, either.

Yeah, I'd be shocked if they kept him at RG, I anticipate him dabbling and getting work in at RT too. Probably even center. They've already been moving him around in otas and etc.

Got to love the versatility he brings.

Looks like Mayle is catching balls now.

Browns' Receivers Vine

And to think people questioned his hands. [/purple?]

He's got a red jersey on, he knows there will be no contact. Let's see what he can do when he's in pads and is able to take off the red jersey and encounter some contact.

I gotta say though, he's a big WR! So is that Smith guy.

Browns defensive coordinator Jim O'Neil transcript - June 18, 2015

Posted 59 minutes ago

Clevelandbrowns.com@Browns Facebook




He talks up Cleveland D to cap mini-camp





Opening statement:
“When we met earlier in the spring, we talked a lot about our goal for the defense was to win the offseason. Talked to the guys a lot about it this morning. I can’t be more proud of where we are as a defense. I think the guys have done a great job on and off the field, and I really feel we’ve taken a jump defensively compared to where we were at this point last year. The attendance has been great. The guys’ attention to detail in the meeting room has been great. Their work ethic on the practice field has been great. As a coaching staff, what we stress to them is today does not represent the end of the offseason. We have five more weeks of hard work left, and our defense needs to do a great job in these next five weeks of continuing to work hard, continuing to stay in the playbook. They know when they come back for training camp we need to start on fire.”


On what the Browns can learn about how the run defense improved during OTAs:
“The true test will be once we get the pads on, but I think just being able to go back and show the guys where the mistakes were made [is beneficial], whether it was technique, alignment or schematics. I think the position coaches have done a great job emphasizing it in their individual work in the meeting rooms. We’ve emphasized it a lot as a coaching staff. We got beat up a little bit in Phase II because the players aren’t allowed to go against each other in Phase II. The coaches have to be the dummies. I had some bruises on my chest from those guys rolling off on me. It’s definitely been a point of emphasis for us. I’m happy with where we are with the pads not being on right now, but we’ll really know in a couple months.”


On if the Browns defense will look noticeably different in Year 2:
“I do think it will look a little different. We are different every year just schematically because we are going to build the scheme around our players. What our top three or four calls were last year might not necessarily be the top three or four calls this year. Obviously, we have some new pieces to work with, and we’ve been able to throw a lot at these guys in Year 2. There will be some more pressures. There will be some more base fronts. We’ve thrown a couple extra coverages at them. There will be some things that look different.”


On expanding on the need to improve the defense’s alignment, particularly in the running game as noted by LB Karlos Dansby:
“We do a lot in our base defense front-wise, pressure-wise. Just alignment-wise and knowing where the down safety is or knowing where the free hitter or the free player is coming from can really help those inside backers on how to attack the line of scrimmage. With Karlos, he’s so instinctual and he makes a lot of plays because he does such a great job gathering pre-snap information or listening and learning as the game is going on to what the quarterback is saying or what the offensive line is saying. I would say 80 percent of the time it ends up being a positive, and then because of that, it ends up hurting us at times. As long as he continues to make more plays than he’s giving up, you’re OK with it, and he did last year. There were times that it did hurt us, and showing them those clips and explaining it to him and then just him being in Year 2 is really going to help him. He had a phenomenal year for us, and that wasn’t the reason we struggled in the run game – because of Karlos Dansby’s alignments – but it was just one of the things that we needed to get better at.”


On potentially using more four-man fronts on running downs with the Browns personnel this year:
“Yes, we base out of a 3-4 personnel, but we really play a lot of five-man fronts because it is a lot of under fronts where our SAM and rush linebacker are up on the ball. I do think we’ll be able roll more guys up front, and that’s a good luxury because if you can keep those guys up front fresh, that will really help us in the later part of the game.”


On if that will affect the roster makeup by potentially keeping an additional defensive linemen:
“We had a pretty long meeting last night just to discuss personnel with our whole defensive staff and then (General Manager) Ray Farmer and his staff. The thing I love about Ray’s and Pett’s (Head Coach Mike Pettine) philosophy is we’re going to keep the 53 best players, if we’re one or two heavy on the d-line or we’re one or two heavy at corner or one or two heavy on the offensive line. I think that’s a great philosophy because if you try to match your roster to ‘We have to have this many guys at this position,’ you’re cutting good football players, which I don’t think you ever want to do. Are there going to be some tough decisions that probably have to be made, especially on our side of the ball? Absolutely. Absolutely. We’re probably going to have to cut a couple good football players when it is all said and done at the end of training camp.”


On members of the Browns secondary saying their position group could rank among the top of the NFL this season:
“I’m glad they’re confident. I’m glad they’re making those statements. I’ll say last year was last year. I’ll say I think we have the potential to definitely be the best secondary in the NFL. We’ve got to prove it every year. The best secondaries in my opinion are usually playing in January.”


On DL Danny Shelton’s progression given his schedule this offseason:
“We were obviously a little limited because of the NFL rules, when he was allowed to report and Washington being on the quarters system. He showed up and he did a great job in the rookie minicamp. (Defensive line) Coach (Anthony) Weaver and (defensive quality control) Coach (Tony) Tuioti have done an unbelievable job meeting with him over the phone, FaceTime, making sure he’s on top of the playbook. Obviously, that’s very different than actually being here, but Danny is a very, very smart kid. He’s a very smart football play. I think in two days, he’s only had one bust, and we’ve thrown the whole playbook at him. We’ve thrown everything at him. He’s done a great job mentally. It takes a little time to get in football shape and get caught up to the speed of the game, but for the amount of time that he’s missed and what he’s done in the first two days, I can’t be happier.”


On what the Browns are now able to do after acquiring a player like Shelton:
“Time will tell. We’ve got to get the pads on. You draft a guy like that, you hope that he’s going to eat up two blocks at the point of attack, which might allow you to play in lighter spacing, maybe play a little more two high safeties instead of loading the box up. The thing that we’re excited about is his ability to push the pocket in the passing game and get the quarterback off his spot because we feel that is going to make the rest of our pass rushers better. When the quarterback is moving instead of just being able to stand in the pocket like a statue, when you have guys who are good at fighting what we call the ‘soft shoulder’ and really do a good job of getting around guys like (DL) Armonty (Bryant), guys like (LBs) Nate Orchard and Paul Kruger, that’s going to really help them, (DL) Des Bryant. We think that having that guy who can push the pocket and the quarterback off his spot is going to make everybody around him better.”


On LB Scott Solomon’s work with the first team:
“Scott is very quickly becoming one of my favorite players on the defense. He embodies everything we talk about when we say ‘Play Like a Brown.’ I think the offense calls him ‘Bloodbath’ because it’s like a heat-seeking missile coming off the edge. I do see him competing withArmonty Bryant once he’s full go at the rush linebacker position. I see him getting a considerable amount of reps on early downs. He’s going to have to earn his reps in later downs in passing situations, but he is definitely going to help us on the edge in the run game.”


On LB Barkevious Mingo’s role and if he thinks Mingo will be healthy when training camp opens:
“I do. When we came out of training camp last year, we thought Mingo was one of our best outside backers. We all know about the injury he suffered in play two of the season. He is going to have to compete for playing time on early downs. He’s going to have a role in our sub-packages. No one is guaranteed anything on the defense. (DB) Joe Haden knows that, (DB)Donte Whitner knows that and Karlos Dansby knows that. You’re going to have to earn playing time. We’re deep in every position group. Mingo is going to have to come back ready to go, and he’s going to have to earn it.”


On a younger, under-the-radar player like DB K’Waun Williams last year:
“I’ll just go position by position: d-line, I think (DL) Xavier Cooper is going to be a hell of a football player. I think he’s different than anything we have, his ability to get off the ball. I think he’s going to cause offenses a lot of problems, especially in the pass game. Outside backer, I’d go with Scott Solomon. I think that he brings something to the table that we were missing last year, especially on early downs. I think (LB) Tank Carder has had an unbelievable offseason at the inside backer position. We never really got an evaluation on him last year because he had the should injury and then he had a foot deal to start training camp so he came on very late for us, and then he spent most of the year just as a special teams player and a practice squad guy. I could envision him having a role in our defense as a blitzer. He’s one of our best blitzers on the team. Now, that’s a hard room, obviously, to earn playing time because you’ve got (LB) Craig (Robertson), Kirko (LB Chris Kirksey) and Karlos in that room, but I think Tank has had a great offseason. If you ask me just one guy in the secondary, I really think (DB Jordan) Poyer has opened my eyes to the type of player he is. He has really taken advantage of the reps that he’s been given, and he’s done a great job. His pre-snap communication has been outstanding. He’s improved in man coverage. I know he’ll tackle. He’s been a guy who has really stepped it up this offseason, and I’m excited about all those guys.”


On if Poyer has an inside track to receive first-team reps due to DB Tashaun Gipsonmissing OTAs and beginning minicamp with an injury:
“I’m not worried about the depth chart to start camp. I’m more worried about it for the New York Jets. Those guys all know that they need to earn it. It doesn’t matter what you did last year. It’s what you’re going to do this year. I’m excited to have Gip back in the building. He’s right in the front row. I know he’s been away, but he’s done a great job staying in his iPad, staying in his playbook. He’s talking in the meeting rooms like he hasn’t missed a beat. It’s good seeing his face.”


On if more NFL teams may take advantage of the decreased presence of larger, run-stopping LBs due to recent pass-oriented offensive transitions:
“Definitely, the league has shifted to more of a pass focus so I think everyone is looking for a more athletic player that can play in space. The days of teams running power and leads on your linebackers and it’s three, four yards and a cloud of dust, those days have gone by the wayside. It’s much more of a zone running attack, very similar to what we ran last year and what we’ll run this year. I think that smaller, quicker, faster guys are better against that scheme and are better against the pass, but there’s no doubt that those ‘old school, come downhill and knock your head off’ linebackers are a dying breed in football today.”


On if there’s an issue with Mingo, based off of his earlier comments:
“No, not at all. He’s done a great job. I think where Mingo has really taken a step this year is he’s been able to participate in all of the passing stuff, all of the 7-on-7 drills with the red shirt on – I’m sure you guys have seen him out there. Coming out of LSU, he had no experience with that stuff. Right now, he’s by far our best linebacker in coverage, our best outside backer. Now, we’re going to see where he is when we get back to training camp and the pads come on of how he is at outside backer setting the edge, how he is as a defensive end rushing the quarterback and that kind of stuff. We were very optimistic about Mingo coming out of training camp last year. We’ve improved the depth, we’ve improved the competition in that room with a Scott Solomon, a Nate Orchard, like we have in every room. Guys are going to have to earn it. We don’t care where you were drafted, when you were drafted, how much you’re getting paid; the best 11 guys and the guys who earn their roles are the guys who are going to play.”


On what Solomon provides that was missing last year:
“Just his ability. We talk about aiming point, hand placement, his ability to set the edge in the run game. He’s very good at it. His ability to wreck a running play versus a down kick-out block, an aggressive block coming at him, whether it’s a pulling guard, a fullback. It’s going to be a car accident when Scott Solomon meets a pulling guard or a fullback. Being unselfish and being willing to take on two blockers at the point of attack, sacrificing your body so an inside backer can scrape through over the top and make a tackle for a loss. Those are things we’ve had other places I’ve been. We had them at times last year. It was inconsistent. Scott is going to give us a very steady player on the edge doing those kinds of things.”

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Browns offensive coordinator John DeFilippo transcript - June 18, 2015

Posted 49 minutes ago

Clevelandbrowns.com@Browns Facebook




New OC likes what he saw at mini-camp



On how the new offense is taking shape:
“I talked to our players this morning about that. I’ve preached to them to ride the wave. I think we have ridden the wave going upward the last three practices. I would say in the middle of OTAs we hit a little bit of a funk for a combination of a couple things. First off, it’s a credit to our defense. They are really well coaches, they have good players and they have a really good scheme. We are always one step behind because they have so many wrinkles in their defense that they come out and then you have to get it fixed. Once we’ve kind of caught up to them, and I think we’ve kind of reinstalled everything for a second time in this mandatory minicamp. I think you’ve seen in the last couple of practices... Like yesterday in the red zone, four plays and we score three touchdowns. The last two or three practices, I think you’ve seen it come together. It’s not where we want it to be yet, but I’ve liked the progress we’ve seen in the last three practices.”


On what percentage of the offense has been installed:
“I would say about 90 percent. The only things that really haven’t been installed yet are the things that you do in training camp – the special situation type things, like end of game. For example, there are six second left in the game and it’s fourth down, sprinting out and throwing the ball out of bounds. Things like that, you install those things once a day in training camp. From an X and O standpoint, from a run game standpoint, it’s about 90 percent in.” –


On finding the offense’s identity:
“We chipped away at it a great deal. It’s been a little difficult to be honest with you. From a personnel standpoint, we’ve had a bunch of guys out in the spring. Whenever you have a few starters out – you know we’re resting (OL) Joe (Thomas), that’s part of the plan – or you have (OL) Alex Mack out, (WR) Travis Benjamin out, those second team guys have to go up to the first team, and now you’re third string guys are probably playing a group up than they should early against a dang good defense. We’re getting there. I’m really excited. I’m hoping we get some continuity early in training camp so we even find that out even more, but we are getting there.”


On QB Josh McCown’s offseason:
“I’ve been very, very impressed with Josh. Josh and I talk about it all the time: He’s a better quarterback now than he was in 2007. I think he’s much better. Again, I don’t like to speak for the players, but I think he’ll tell you the same thing. I haven’t seen anything from an arm strength standpoint, from an athletic standpoint to tell me that his game has declined at all. He is much better in situational football, a much smarter quarterback than he was in 2007. That comes with time. He’s played a lot of football. I’ve been very, very pleased with Josh. Obviously, the intangibles with Josh are as good as any quarterback in the league in terms of his leadership, in terms of being a good person. All of those things that you’re looking for in a starting quarterback, Josh McCown has.”


On McCown’s arm and athleticism and how he stabilizes the offense with his personality:
“Yeah, he’s very even keeled. The thing Josh has done a really good job of is he helps guys get lined up. I have to kind of hold him back a little bit and have him concerned about doing his own job. That is when he has peaks and valleys at practice sometimes is when he’s worried about the 10 other guys and not himself. I’ve been preaching to Josh all spring: No. 1, you need to worry about yourself and playing quarterback for this football team and trust that these other 10 guys on the team are pros and they’re going to know to do, also. That’s kind of what we’ve been with Josh. Josh has, like I said, been everything that we thought he was going to be in terms of his leadership. We’ve just got to keep him going.”


On if he has a sense McCown has something to prove and that his 1-10 record last year is not who he is:
“Absolutely. Any competitor wants something to prove. That’s why we’re all here. We’re here to win football games for this team, for this city and for our owner. Any competitor wants to go out there and have something to prove, whether you’re coming off a Super Bowl victory or you’re coming off a 1-10 (record) as a starter.”


On how QB Johnny Manziel has improved this offseason:
“First off, I think he’s improved on his pocket awareness. I saw him the other day for the first time get to his third progression, which was fantastic. We were throwing a post and a corner out of the front side and we had a basic cross, which is a 12-yard in-cut coming from the backside. That’s hard to do for a young quarterback, to work from the right side of the field all the way back coming into his vision. You see him reset his feet and getting back to second and third progressions, which is something I didn’t see much of him last season or when he was in college. The other thing that Johnny has done a much better job of is his huddle management. He’s getting the play out with confidence. We do have some long play calls. That’s just the nature of NFL play calls. You are going to have some long play calls. He’s gone in there and he’s been like a veteran spitting it out. We’ve had very, very few issues pre-snap with him in terms of delay of games, forgetting motions, not sending a shift we wanted, motion landmarks. Again, the big picture thinking with Johnny, he’s improved a great deal. Has he made every through as strike point accurate as we want? No, and he knows that. He needs to be a little bit more strike point accurate than he has been. That will come. You want to work outside in with these guys. You want to work the big picture and then you can really hone in on what they need to do from the other parts of playing quarterback.”


On spreading receptions among the veteran and younger WRs if all of them play well during training camp:
“That’s a really good question. I’ve talked about it since Day 1 in terms of with our personnel people. The thing I do like about it is each guy is not the same guy. Even though (WRs)Taylor Gabriel and Hawk (Andrew Hawkins) are smaller receivers, they do have two different skillsets. (WRs Dwayne) Bowe and (Brian) Hartline are bigger guys. I think it’d be much more of an issue if you had all small guys or all big guys. I think you can still find places on the field for those guys and putting them in situations to where they can succeed in the things that they do well. Again, I’ve talked about it with you here, we don’t need a bunch of one-trick pony receivers, and we don’t have that. I thought we did a great job of going out and adding some diversity to that room in body types, the different types of routes we’ll have those guys in for. Again, that’s going to be a good problem to have is to figure out the competition. That’s what (Head) Coach (Mike) Pettine has talked about and how he wants to build this team is through competition. It’ll be really interesting to watch those guys throughout training camp.”


On pairing multiple RBs in formations, including passing formations:
“We saw a lot of that. Part of this spring has been really good for us because as coaches, we’re all guilty of one thing – we’re guilty of always wanting to be comfortable – not putting (OL) Cam Erving at center, not putting him at left tackle; not putting (RB) Duke Johnson anywhere but at tailback. Because of some of the injuries we’ve had, we’ve been forced to put Cam in all five spots. We’ve been forced to get Duke outside as you saw that the last few days because we’ve had four wide outs down. Again, in the big picture of life, everything is not going to look exactly the way we want it right now because we’ve got guys out of position, but come the fall, it’s going to help us. I’m a coach; I like to be comfortable. I like to have a guy at one spot. I like to have Duke Johnson just at H(-back), but it’s been forcing us to think outside the box a little bit, and I’m proud of the way Duke has handled some of those things. We’ve put a lot on his plate. Both he and (FB) Malcolm (Johnson), we’ve asked those guys to do a lot of things that normal rookies don’t get asked to do. That F position is hard to play.”


On if moving the RBs around was more out of necessity than interest:
“No, we were going to do it but maybe just not as much. That was definitely a plan to do that with Duke and get him out there. He’s done a great job with it. I don’t know if you saw the wheel route that he caught on the sideline during the 7-on-7 yesterday. It was a great throw by Johnny and a great catch by him. We were planning on doing that stuff but maybe not as much. We had eight or nine plays of that yesterday – we call it 21 Hurricane – with him in there at F. It force fed us to kind of get him going earlier.”


On if he sees Manziel legitimately giving McCown a run for the starting spot in training camp and how he views the QB picture:
“I’m going to echo Coach Pettine’s words because he and I are on the exact same page about this. I don’t see a change for right now going into training camp. I just don’t. I think Josh is playing at a high level right now. I think Josh is doing the things we want him to do. There’s a long time until we kick off against the Jets. There are four preseason games to play. Last year, I was at a place where we were sold on a starter, too, and then a rookie came in and outplayed him in the preseason. I think Coach said today there are 86 days or something like that until we kick off against the Jets. Eighty-six days in the NFL world is an eternity. For right now, if we were lining up against the Jets tomorrow, which we’re not, I wouldn’t see that changing.”


On veteran quarterbacks not performing well for the Browns in the past:
“I wasn’t here. I think the thing Josh and I have, which maybe benefits us – I wouldn’t know the stats on this – is our familiarity we have with each other. I don’t know if any of those guys had known the OC before, when we line up Day 1 in pass install and knew how to call the play without really even looking at the playbook. That’d be a situation that I think that might be a little bit different. Again, we’re going to have a great plan, and we’re going to go from there.”


On if he would prefer to use just two RBs compared to three:
“I like to go with the guy that has the hot hand. If a guy’s got the hot hand, ride it out. You’re going to have some gameplan-specific plays for certain guys like a Duke Johnson where you want to get him out on a pass route or running a certain outside zone or whatever. I’m a big believer in the best five offensive linemen up front. I’m a big believer in a guy’s got a hot hand you keep riding him. That’s kind of just a philosophy that I have.”


On who his five best OL are and if OL Cameron Erving is in the mix:
“Cam’s in the mix, absolutely. There’s no doubt about it. Cam’s in the mix, and it was disappointing to see him go down with that injury because he was making strides. Again, it’s a fine line with Cam. Right now, all the tape on Cam’s not going to be pretty because we’re playing him at three different spots, but in the big picture, like I always talk about – I try to think as big picture as I can – it’s going to help us in the fall. It really is. It’s going to help us. The kid is going to have exposure at a lot of spots on the offensive line.”


On where Erving probably will line up on the first day of training camp:
“Day 1 of training camp, right guard, probably, right guard. Then we’ll always mix him in a little bit at center and always mix him in a little bit at left tackle. If I had to guess, I’d say right guard.”


On why Erving would get reps at left tackle instead of right tackle:
“Because (OL) Joe Thomas doesn’t practice every day. He’s played all five spots this spring, but if you had to tell me where he was going to start, it’d probably be right guard.”


On OLs Mitchell Schwartz and John Greco:
“I’ll tell you, I really like those two guys. Our offensive line, this is as talented a group, as smart a group as I’ve been around. They’re exactly what you want in an offensive line. A lot of the offensive linemen are the same no matter what franchise you go to or team you’re on. They all hang out together. They’re all friends, and you hope the majority of them are smart guys. We’re fortunate that all those guys are off-the-chart smart. I think Mitchell Schwartz has gotten a lot better in his pass protection this offseason. I think he’s gotten a lot better. It’s hard to tell without the pads on, but when you’re going against some of the guys we have across the ball, I’m pleased with Mitchell Schwartz. I’m pleased with John Greco. I think both those guys have had a positive spring.”


On ‘everybody wanting to replace’ Schwartz:
“I haven’t heard that. I have not heard that since I’ve been here.”


On TE Rob Housler:
“I think Rob’s very similar to Duke. You’ve seen him line up in a bunch of different places. The thing Rob brings to the table is he ran past – I don’t even know who it was yesterday watching it on tape. When we ran the corner-go to Hawk in the red zone, he was the guy that has to clear out the play for the outside post. I don’t think it was (DB) Joe (Haden). It may have been Joe on the outside, but he ran right past the guy. Anytime you have a guy that’s that big and can run that fast and do a lot of jobs, those guys have a way of lasting in this league and playing at a good level.”


On how encouraged he is that Manziel can play in the NFL:
“I’m pleased with Johnny. The lack of continuity in that second huddle has hurt him a little bit. It really has. From the offensive line, guys moving around, the receivers, two young receivers that are in there with him, some of the things you see on the field aren’t all on Johnny. It’s never all on one guy, just like anything. The old cliché ‘The quarterback gets way too much praise when he wins and way too much blame when he loses.’ Not everything Johnny’s been out there has been on Johnny. I’m very pleased with his progress. I think he’s made another step from OTAs to minicamp. I really do. I think he’s getting comfortable in there. I would never say anything in here to anyone that I haven’t talked to the players about. There are a couple throws like the corner ball to Housler yesterday, we need to make that. We’re a work in progress. I’m pleased with the strides we’ve made on offense. We’re never going to be happy with where we are on offense no matter whether we lead the league or we’re last in the league. We’re never going to be satisfied on offense, and as competitors I hope that’s what our players expect.”


On what happened when Manziel dropped three snaps in practice:
“One he took his eye off of, I thought, and the other two were a little bit low and to the right. We need to make those. We actually do a drill, a bad shotgun snap drill, where I tell those guys, ‘You need to be like a hockey goalie back there.’ You see a hockey goalie get over and then get back, to fight to get back inside the A gap. We actually drill that work because you’re not going to get a perfect shotgun snap all the time. He needs to get better than that. I think he took his eye off one. I thought the other two were kind of low and hot, but that first one he could have handled.”

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5 observations from Day 3 of Browns minicamp

Posted 19 minutes ago

Kevin JonesStaff Writer@Mr_KevinJones Facebook




Defense making changes, offense riding the wave



Players wrapped up mini-camp on Thursday and headed back to their respective homes and favorite vacation spots for the next five weeks.
Coach Mike Pettine is enthusiastic where his team stands after completing the offseason program. There are no serious injuries to report, an already intimidating defense is adding new components and the offense, led by Josh McCown, took a huge surge forward in this three-day period.
Some observations.


1) The Browns will use more four-man fronts
From a traditional standpoint, Cleveland employs a 3-4 scheme. But that will be less of the case in the 2015 season. On Thursday, defensive coordinator Jim O’Neil hinted the Browns will use more exotic fronts, including several packages with four players in a down position on the line of scrimmage.
“I do think we’ll be able roll more guys up front, and that’s a good luxury because if you can keep those guys up front fresh, that will really help us in the later part of the game,” O’Neil said.
Pettine took it a step further, talking specific changes. The coaching staff views 26-year-oldScott Solomon as more of a defensive end who can set the edge on early downs and force running backs to the inside. Armonty Bryant is versatile enough to stick his hand in the dirt and become a one-on-one matchup pass rusher with a left tackle. And Pettine even said the Browns will consider teaming 330-pounders Danny Shelton and Ishmaa’ily Kitchen in the middle together as defensive tackles.
These defensive revelations from mini-camp could be a significant storyline all season

2) At 33, Karlos Dansby is still improving
The argument can be made no player was more important to the Browns on defense last season than the 33-year-old Dansby. Even though he missed four games, Dansby’s 93 tackles still ranked third on the team. A Bleacher Report article made the case Dansby’s career has been as equally good as longtime 49er Patrick Willis. Dansby’s play is not dropping off anytime soon.
Where Dansby becomes most valuable to Cleveland is before the snap. O’Neil and Pettine say no player on defense is as smart as Dansby in terms of gathering clues from the offensive linemen and quarterback that tip off play call tendencies. The Browns let Dansby do some freelancing, which O’Neil said worked a whopping 80 percent of the time. But now it’s about knowing when to take the right chances and where help is coming from.
“Just alignment-wise and knowing where the down safety is or knowing where the free hitter or the free player is coming from can really help (Dansby) on how to attack the line of scrimmage,” O’Neil said. “He had a phenomenal year for us, and that wasn’t the reason we struggled in the run game – because of Karlos Dansby’s alignments – but it was just one of the things that we needed to get better at.”


3) The offense is 90 percent installed
Mini-camp was a big step forward for the offense. After some admitted bumpy period during OTAs, offensive coordinator John DeFilippo and even chatty media members noticed some noticeable strides. During a competitive red zone drill, the offense scored touchdowns on three of four plays.
“I think we have ridden the wave going upward the last three practices,” DeFilippo said. “I would say in the middle of OTAs we hit a little bit of a funk for a combination of a couple things. First off, it’s a credit to our defense. They are really well-coached, they have good players and they have a really good scheme. We are always one step behind because they have so many wrinkles in their defense that they come out and then you have to get it fixed.
“The last two or three practices, I think you’ve seen it come together. It’s not where we want it to be yet, but I’ve liked the progress we’ve seen in the last three practices.”



4) DeFilippo prefers the hot hand at running back
Fantasy football fanatics and anxious Browns fans are wondering: Will it be Isaiah Crowell,Duke Johnson or Terrance West carrying the torch Sept. 13 against the New York Jets? The Browns view all three as legitimate threats with the rock in their hand, but there is no clear favorite in guessing who will lead Cleveland in carries in December.
“I like to go with the guy that has the hot hand. If a guy’s got the hot hand, ride it out,” DeFilippo said. “You’re going to have some gameplan-specific plays for certain guys like a Duke Johnson where you want to get him out on a pass route or running a certain outside zone or whatever. I’m a big believer in the best five offensive linemen up front. I’m a big believer in a guy’s got a hot hand you keep riding him. That’s kind of just a philosophy that I have.”


5) Travis Coons and Carey Spear are deadlocked in the kicking competition
A number crunch forced the Browns to release a kicker earlier this offseason, and special teams coordinator Chris Tabor said Garrett Hartley was picked because “you kind of know what he is and who he is.” General manager Ray Farmer opted to roll with Coons and Spear – both of whom have never kicked in an NFL game. The Browns view it as a possible strength. There isn’t really a ceiling for either guy.
Tabor has been charting every kick from OTAs and mini-camp from his young place kickers and has a strong grasp of the competition now heading into training camp.
“It’s been a very close competition,” Tabor said. “They’re controlling what they can control, and the tape will tell us what to do.”

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...80-7fc44c848180

I'm very grateful Gratefuldawg!

Thanks for posting the articles.

jmo. i think they want him right next to mack this year to learn.

Star means where he will start learning, not that he has a starting position locked up.

He will start out as a RG candidate, and then move around from there.

I think its true either way lol he is gonna start at RG. Would have liked to have heard more on how the TE's were working out.

I'm not quite sure that will happen. I mean there's no doubt of his talent. But continuity is something not to be underrated. It would be hard to build continuity along the OL by having a rookie play musical chairs along the OL during training camp and pre-season.

Along those lines, it's been pretty well established that many players who man the tackle positions in the NCAA are simply not equipped to play that position in the NFL. Now I'm not saying that's the case with Erving but it's just as likely that he was drafted with the intentions of being an interior lineman and not the tackle position.

Now I'm not saying that Erving could not an the tackle position in an emergency case, but I do not believe it was the intent of this FO to have Erving playing at tackle for the Browns.

Why did you attempt to use purple?

Are you actually dismissing his history of dropping balls based on one video?

Seriously?

You know, I started reading one of the MC reports and had to quit. Didn't read the others. That's probably wrong and I might read them later, but man, it's so hard to trust what they are saying. There is no objectivity at all.

What kills me is that if a reporter knocks the Browns, he is a bozo, but if he praises the Browns, y'all take it as gospel.

I'm going to have to wait and see and judge it w/my own eyes.

I actually put the purple with the question mark there to indicate I wasn't being serious, but I wasn't sure if just using purple would get that across. I guess it didn't work.

No, I'm not dismissing anything. I was being facetious (trying anyways).

I'm not sure about the rest of the optimists, but I think Kevin Jones qualifies for bozo status. Occasionally he'll have an interesting nugget I can hack out of the mess.

I pointed this out a lot last year that JM couldnt make it to his second and third progressions, he would just run out of the pocket if his first read was not open and caught hell for it from some posters. It's nice to finally see it in print this year.

I saw a lot of interesting facts that were presented. It my personal intelligence to draw the line from facts and writing for your boss.

My description for a Bozo. Is when some writes an entire article without knowing the team, investigating all the facts.

If a negative journalist of your choice was at camp and wrote about details and all pretty much negative things as long as they were facts they aren't being a Bozo reporter. But when there is maybe one fact and then the reporter just makes up a story surrounding the one negative fact without knowing our team...I consider them Bozo's

Sometimes you classify things in a US vs THEM all the time.

Bozos have nothing to do with negative or positive. It has ot do with getting facts as opposed to making an entire article based on a LaConfora Tweet or a Mary Kay report.

This piece fluff or not has a lot of facts and quotes in there, yes as well as company line observations...but we can assume none was a lie just selective.

Good post I concur moving him around would be counter productive for the reason you stated. I wonder if they will?

That said though if he can't unseat Swartz who I think would be a good Guard I wonder if he was worth the pick. They do say though that the kid will be a pro bowl center maybe they want him to work close to Mack so he gets a good feel for how he goes about his business...

I think most fans underrate Schwartz but this regime has a differing opinion of him. They are gonna put Erving at RG and let him compete with Grecco. I think guard or center is where he belongs.

j/c:

Here are some news/notes from a national perspective regarding us and division rivals.

Baltimore Ravens

1. Ravens rookie wideout Breshad Perriman came out of college with a reputation for drops. The first-rounder looked good earlier this spring, but struggled Tuesday with four dropped balls. "Just really paying attention, getting too tired and really not focusing," Perriman explained to The Baltimore Sun. Despite the gaffes, coaches say Perriman has put together plenty of strong practice tape.

2. Cornerback Jimmy Smith was limited this week as he continues to heal from Lisfranc surgery. The team's starting cornerback is close to 100 percent, though, and expected to open training camp as a full participant.

3. Veteran back Justin Forsett has shown the "same form" that helped him run for 1,200 yards last season, per the team's official website. His ability to adjust to Marc Trestman's offense will be key, but Forsett is bound to see more catches this year after Trestman guided Chicago's Matt Forte to 102 grabs in 2014, an NFL record for running backs.

Cleveland Browns

1. Quarterback Johnny Manziel has cleaned up his act and ditched the "money sign," but that alone won't heighten his chances of starting. Josh McCown has drawn rave reviews from coaches and teammates and hits the break as the clear No. 1 heading into camp.

2. Rookie running back Duke Johnson has been the talk of minicamp on offense, with ESPN's Adam Caplan saying the former Hurricanes star has been "the most impressive" back at camp, playing all over the field and even at wideout. One Browns source told Around The NFL that Duke and fellow rookie fullback Malcolm Johnson are "going to play a lot of football for us."

3. Browns defensive coordinator Jim O'Neil said of rookie nose tackle Danny Shelton: "In two days, he's had only one busted play and we've thrown everything at him. I can't be happier." The play-caller also talked up outside linebacker Scott Solomon as a "car accident" for opponents, noting that Barkevious Mingo would need to earn his snaps.

Cincinnati Bengals

1. The most encouraging news this month has been the play of Geno Atkins. The interior defensive lineman "was just a guy out there" last season, according to defensive coordinator Paul Guenther, but two seasons removed from ACL surgery, Atkins "looks as good as any guy we've got on our team," per the coach.

2. Andy Dalton is surrounded by one of the AFC's most talented rosters. That didn't stop the quarterback from throwing a flood of bad balls in Tuesday's practice, with Bengals.com writer Geoff Hobson noting that Dalton and wideout A.J. Green "appeared not to be on the same page."

3. After Cincy's four straight one-and-done playoff appearances, play-caller Hue Jackson acknowledged this week: "I'm tired of our organization being the brunt of jokes." Dalton's play will decide how far this team can go, which is scary, but Jackson -- one of the game's top strategists -- is stressing a versatile attack that uses players all over the field.

Pittsburgh Steelers

1. Steelers defensive end Cam Heyward told ESPN.com that he "loves" the play of third-year safety Shamarko Thomas, saying: "He knows he's not going to be Troy (Polamalu), but he can be a heckuva Shamarko Thomas." He certainly looks the part.

2. Post-Gazette beat writer Ed Bouchette believes defensive coordinator Keith Butler will blitz more often this season, writing: "Other changes you might see is what he told us last week, that the linemen will be more involved than just eating up blocks to allow the linebackers to run free."

3. Le'Veon Bell never thought about a long NFL career until meeting DeAngelo Williams, telling the Tribune-Review: "It never crossed my mind until when we got DeAngelo." Williams is gearing up to play a lead role if Bell's three-game suspension sticks, but we don't see Le'Veon's touches dipping from last season.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...ign=Twitter_atn

There are positives and negatives on many things.

It has been said he has been rather intelligent and can get a taste of it all. If he turns out to be our 6th man for the season they don't wish to just start shifting multiple positions. It would be great to be able to place him to a 3 game start or something at the one position and all other 4 remain. As long as he can play them all with capabilities acceptable of NFL level. I see the thought process of those that say he should play next to Mack to learn by his actions.

But we will put the best 5 out there - there should be no other motive than that.

This is what I think. or know.

You cannot evaluate OL without hitting taking place. you can only work on technique and knowledge of plays. I can see moving him around.

I know for a fact the easiest transition in an OL is the RG position. So I can see us having him start his journey there. Once he grasps that I can see them also having him play RT and also give Mack some breathers at the Center position.

The key will be the first couple of Preseason games. Where they have him. I'm sure they will not have him as the starting 5 cause the backups will get more reps in the game then the starters. I am curious where he goes when the bring the 2nd OL in...that should tell us something of the plans for him in 2015.

Mack...Mack is not going anywhere until he says so. It would be wrong to plan completely for that. Erving can play every rep at RT and then after we know the plans of Mack and lets say he does go...Erving can spend the entire offseason and mini camps and training camps to prepare himself for the Center position. He won't lose anything by playing outside in 2015.

I think object one is to see him in 2 positions and if he can win a starting job then that is his job..his job is not to train for the center position in 2016...that could be the case all next season in camps and preseason.

You all have to understand its about the 2015 season now. This is what the coaches are gearing up for and putting all their efforts in. 2015 and where best Erving will serve us. 6th man? Win a starting job? It won't be at LT, LG n C...those are cemented. And I've always said to upgrade on Greco and Schwartz will not be an easy task that we would have to draft somebody high to do so...well we did.

jmho

thanks Memphis.

Kind of has a "They are who we thought they were" ring to it.

Browns' OC John DeFilippo says Cameron Erving likely to open training camp at right guard



By Tom Reed, Northeast Ohio Media Group
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on June 18, 2015 at 7:32 PM, updated June 18, 2015 at 7:55 PM

BEREA, Ohio – Rookie offensive lineman Cameron Erving spent his spring learning multiple positions.

His focus will narrow as training camp opens in late July.

Offensive coordinator John DeFilippo said the No. 19 overall pick likely will begin camp at right guard. He will compete with incumbent John Greco.

That doesn't mean Erving won't see some practice reps at center and left tackle. Erving is the Browns' heir apparent at center should Alex Mack opt out of his contract at the end of the season. In the meantime, it was presumed he would battle for the starting job at right guard or tackle.

"Right now, all the tape on Cam is not going to be pretty because we're playing him at three different spots, but in the big picture, like I always talk about – I try to think as big picture as I can – it's going to help us in the fall," DeFilippo said. "The kid is going to have exposure at a lot of spots on the offensive line."

Offensive line coach Andy Moeller said he can't recall teaching a rookie three positions. It's a lot to ask, but the assistant said Erving has excelled at the challenge. The first-round pick did not participate in drills this week as he nursed an undisclosed injury.

DeFilippo has been pleased with both Greco and right tackle Mitchell Schwartz, who the coordinator said has improved his pass protection in the off-season.

Greco is used to challenges for his starting spot, although he's never battled a first rounder.

"I play right guard and that's what I'm going to focus on coming into camp and kind of let the cards fall as they will," he said.

Gilbert out again

Cornerback Justin Gilbert missed the final two days of minicamp with an excused absence as he deals with a family issue.

Busy rookie

DeFilippo is keeping rookie Duke Johnson busy at practice. Beyond his running back duties, the coordinator has been splitting him out at receiver. That's always been an option, DeFilippo said, but they're using him often at receiver during minicamp due to injuries.

Brownies

Players who rode stationary bikes instead of practicing included: Erving, Nate Orchard, cornerback Tramon Williams, free safety Tashaun Gipson, defensive lineman Phil Taylor and receivers Marlon Moore and Josh Lenz.

Quotable

Defensive coordinator Jim O'Neil on his players' assertion they have one of the league's top secondaries: "I think we have the potential to definitely be the best secondary in the NFL. "We've got to prove it every year. The best secondaries, in my opinion, are usually playing in January." cleveland.com/browns

Great, so we've got 1st, 2nd, and 4th rounders as well as two free agent signees injured in June.

As long as its in June it isn't a bad thing.

Well at least at this point, the rookie injuries don't seem to be anything alarming.

What is alarming, at least to me, is seeing Taylor and Gipson still riding bikes. They're guys that ended the season injured and open camp injured. Not good.

I think he is pegged to be interior line not a tackle... that seems to be his skill set... as a result I would not judge his worth based on his ability to unseat a Tackle.

Do you think Schwartz would be a better guard than Grecco?

If I was Taylor, in a contract year I would be getting my arse off that bike and on the field... especially with a 1st rounder waiting up behind me.

I hate to say it, because I was always in his corner, but last year of contract. limited cap hit... he may be prime trade bait in a get what you can scenario or even given his papers.

I'm concerned that Gipson did not have surgery. He was hurt bad enough to miss the rest of the season yet didn't have surgery. I don't get that one.

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if we are looking to trade PT because of the log jam we have at DL, however I'm guessing him riding the bikes is scaring teams away . I would be surprised if he's cut. His contract is fully guaranteed, IIRC ($5.5M).

Also, I personally think he's better suited for the NT in a 34 position but he played DE with this coaching staff and I don't think that will change. Drafting Shelton kind of confirms that IMO as I think Shelton will start Week One.

There's another player on the DL I think could be cut based on how TC/preseason goes.

IIRC, it was an MCL. As far as I know, those are usually not surgically repaired, as they respond well to non-surgical treatment. It can be a 3-6 week injury.

J/C

I think the Erving is not a tackle argument is more conjecture than fact. He has good feet and long arms. He performed well at tackle at FSU, the interior of the line was just a mess. It's easier to be the leader of the line from the pivot position, and he really solidified that line. Pressure up the gut is much worse for QBs than that from the edge from my perspective. I think the NFL is just an adjustment for any rookie, and early on it's nice to have help on both sides. Schwartz is solid if not spectacular, and we don't need Erving to start there yet.

Yeah, I seem to recall hearing that he was a darn good LT too.

It's weird that Greco,(2008) Thomas,(2007) and Mack,(2009) despite being separated by years in the draft, will all be the same age (30) at one point this season.

I have high hopes for Scott Solomon. It looks like this kid can really hit. To paraphrase my son's coach from a few years ago, "I want to see snot bubbles!!!"

I'd rather have them injured now than injured in September.

My boy Scott Solomon is getting high praise from both Jim and Pettine. Sounds like whatever side he's on, he's going to shut the edge down.

We might be seeing more Solomon than Mingo!

j/c

I find it interesting that Erving isn't taking any reps at LG...not as competition for Bitonio, but...if JT would go down I would think that Bitonio would be a candidate to move over.

I know teams hate moving two guys when one guy gets dinged, but...who knows. I remember reading an opinion somewhere about Bitonio possibly being a T after a few years in the league. (Don't remember who said it or where I read it...just a thought.)

well it was said that Mingo needs to step up... I think that's a good thing.

I'd guess that if Joe Thomas went down his replacement would be Mitchell Schwartz or Michael Bowie.

Bitonio seems to be locked in at left guard.

I disagree. I think they replace with Erving. Moving Schwartz theoretically weakens both tackle positions. Thinking Greco move to center last year.

I know Farmer hyped up Bowie. How much have we heard about Bowie during OTA and mini-camp?

I do too, and I think the nickname they gave Scott is awesome. Bloodbath,hahaha LOVE IT!

I think Mingo will step up. He basically played with one arm last year and that to me shows how much heart the kid has. Did any of you try to do any physical work with one arm and a bad shoulder much less play football? Let's give the kid a fair shot I think he will be a good player for us.

Don't really want to talk about JT missing action but that is where I believe Erving is taking reps at...obviously not to replace but the one with the best experience and skill set to take an attempt to hold the fort.

jmho

To his credit, Jim labeled Mingo as the best outside lber in coverage.

Yes he did...rather impressive given that last year was reportedly the first time he'd been put in a coverage role.

Agreed and I think that is how it would shake out...like all, I'm uneasy on how that would work out.

Again like all, I'm uneasy about Schwartz or Bowie being able to play LT. Erving seems the logical LT backup given his resume...but man, that's tough for a Rook.

Here's to hoping we don't have to find out.

I've never understood why teams draft WRs that drop a lot of balls. I'm glad he is their problem.





That's good news.

I think my mom would be a better tackle then Wart, BTW mom is 77... On the other hand I think Wart would be an excellent RG. They said the Erving was able to play anywhere on the line why not TRY to replace Wart?

Bro you stay killing me with these names you come up with.

ok here is where you lose credibility with me... your mom does not have the footwork to a tackle

seriously I like Grecco at RG, but we better find out if Erving can play RT because there is a good chance Schwartz is gone after this year anyway

I would add there is a very real chance this is Macks last go here too. I fear there won't be enough bubble gum to stop up the dam. Not drafting players who can make a difference in favor of drafting replacements for players we are about to lose concerns me and means we stay stuck at best where we are...

I would kick Wart inside just to get a look see at what he can do there in my thinking if he is a good/great RG and can play tackle in a pinch we are better team going forward. It would increase his value to the team and may be the difference between re-signing him and not, IMO. One thing for sure Wart isn't a very good RT.

Maybe we like Schwartz and Mack, but they've told the FO they want to play for a winner and that they plan on leaving if we don't make the playoffs (or something similar.) Erving could be replacing either one, so he's between them and learning both positions from up close.

Karlos Dansby is giving players Confidence

That's the way that guy's feeling right now!

http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/2015/06/nfl-ball-waxing-confidence-karlos-dansby.html

Maybe we like Schwartz and Mack, but they've told the FO they want to play for a winner and that they plan on leaving if we don't make the playoffs (or something similar.) Erving could be replacing either one, so he's between them and learning both positions from up close.

Schwartz can hit the bricks any time he pleases, losing Alex Mack though would be a huge loss for the team and city. He's easily a top three center in the entire league. Erving would have his work cutout for him.

With that said, I would not be the least bit shocked if he were to leave. I would be tired of losing too.

The older I get, the worse my memory becomes. Help me out, who was the Right Tackle that was here in the early 2000's?

I'm not sure I like anybody else being called Wart. Please, come up with a new nickname for him. ;-)

Many posters here say our Oline is one of the best in the NFL and there is nothing to be concerned about.

Ryan Tucker?

I've been worried about Mack leaving ever since he and his agent devised a contract with a two year out option. There's no reason to have such a clause in your contract unless it's an option you feel you may use.

I believe anyone who doesn't have concern about that is being a bit naïve.

In the NBA, opt out clauses seem to be as common as anything. The fact that Mack has onw, refuses to talk about staying or going... yeah, glad we signed big Erving.

Mack is entering his 7th season with the Browns and the Browns average record during that period is 5 wins and 11 losses.

Including the 2015 team, Mack and the offense have had 6 different offensive coordinators since Mack was a rookie. The Browns have had 4 different head coaches since Mack was drafted in 2009.

I have little doubt that Mack is growing tired of hearing all the pep talks from the team owner and management, promising that next year will be better.

Our front office made the changes they believe will turn the franchise into a winner this season.

If the Browns management misjudged again and the team fails to improve upon the 7-9 record of 2014, it could cost the Browns one of the best centers in the NFL.

Hard to blame any player for wanting to win...

The following guys have played RT for the Browns since 1999
Steve Zahursky, Roger Chanoine, Joaquin Gonzalez, John St. Clair, Tony Pashos, Orlando Brown, Kevin Shaffer, Ryan Tucker, and Schwartz.

I believe you are thinking about Tucker who played for us from 2002 through 2008 if my memory still works lol

Certainly not, but that is only one aspect.

Money - important, but could be made with any other team.
Location - nice to be near "home", but not essential.
Atmosphere - positive in Cleveland; have not heard "dysfunctional" used lately.
Winning - we are getting close. Do you want to go to a winner, or do you stay and help build a winner? I suggest that latter is much more satisfying...

I agree with you. What I believe it MAY hinge on is our record this year. 10 or more wins might provide enough "good feelings" for him to want to stay.

In either case, with the thought of him opting out next year, I was happy we got Irving.

The fact that guys want out of Cleveland doesn't actually lend itself to a positive atmosphere.

Paying guys like a punter, McCown, and Bowe more than you wanna pay your All Pro FS is not exactly viewed as a positive in the locker room.

Losing more games than you win every year is not positive.

Fact?

Who wanted/wants out of Cleveland?



FAs get overpaid all the time...that doesn't just happen in Cleveland. No on else attempted to sign that All Pro FS (who was injured months ago and still can't practice) not to mention that we have no idea what the Browns may have offered...the Browns played that perfectly.



No doubt about that. Winning trumps all. Even though we haven't won yet, I gotta believe that Mack - and others - are looking at this roster and feeling better about our prospects than they have in a long time

Cameron and Mack.

Mack re-signed with us as recently as a year ago...he could have left then if he really wanted.

Cameron wanted out? I wanted Cameron to leave.

Neither guy said a peep about 'wanting out of Cleveland'. Players come and go all the time...it happens.

Who else you got?

And Irvin wants out of Seattle.

53 guys. Hard to keep everyone happy every year. It's still a business.

While I don't agree with the way Farmer has handled our own FAs, Mack has never impacted the win total.

Man, I can't wait until we find the QB. A lot of this other stuff won't be a big deal.

My turn to ask a question. Why didn't you challenge 32's assertion that we have a "positive" atmosphere? What proof do you guys have of that?

Oh, and before you get all high and mighty.......you might want to do some research.

Well...32 didn't reply to me AND I think the atmosphere has improved based on what I have read. So what would I challenge? Where is YOUR proof that there exists a negative atmosphere right now? See how that works?



On your advice I did do some research...where did 32 assert that we have a positive atmosphere? I honestly can't find it.

LOL man.....

IIRC, this is not true. We placed a transition tag on Mack, he signed a deal with Jacksonville and we matched it. He could not have left, and indeed tried to.

Sorry, Willie. Was I owing you a reply? My ssertion that the atmosphere is positive at this time is based on (as Willie stated) what I have read from articles and the fact that the term "dysfunctional" has not appeared anywhere in print lately.

Or, it simply may have been a ploy to get more money out of us. His intention, thus, was never to have left in the first place...

One can only laugh when they get the BS flag thrown at them and they can't refute it.

Yep...happens all the time all over the league...not just in Cleveland.

I am a bit confused by this post. Was that directed to me, and do I owe you a reply?

Not directed to you and you do not owe me a reply. I'm just jabbing Vers.

Gently, I trust...

True, but that does not support the claim "that he could have left if he wanted to." That is what I was responding to.

You are correct; he was not going anywhere without our say-so...

I was laughing because of how mixed-up you are about all of this.

It ain't worth the time to explain because you don't even wanna hear the truth, so go ahead and keep making fun. You're cool.

I find it funny how people try to dissect things that use the most logic.

Keep laughing Vers...it's really all you've got here once again.

I'll trump your Mack with Dansby and Whitner last year...then Bowe, Hartline, Starks, T Williams, Housler and McCown this year. Wow! Those guys really want out of Cleveland because of the negative atmosphere.

You tossed out your usual agenda BS and got called out on it...AGAIN....and your best retort is that your challenger doesn't want to hear some Vers-truth. Shocker.

8:00 in the morning and you are already full of hate?

No...having a great morning. You?

Just wondering, where DID 32 assert the atmosphere is improved?

I can't find it, can you get me a link

j/c...
Last year the team was totally revamped - New Regime and the local and national atmosphere was that the Browns were dysfunctional and could not provide stability.

Without question Farmer and Pettine has turned that thought process around. Without a question this time last year the players had to have great concern...but in the 12 months that has transpired it is obvious to me that almost all the players have bought into the new program. Like all the coaches and the stability that has transpired even if we did make some changes in the Offense.

Now this is pretty much fact - I'm sure there will be some grumblers don't know where. But Pettine has been a darn good leader.

Now was there any news btw on our Camps. Or is this bantering a product of the Dead Zone.

I hope when there actually is football out there it will stop. Until then you guys have fun... lol

Btw...the Mercenary Pitbulls are 1-0 winning their opener 26-0. Next game July 11th our home opener. There is football going on out there...

I disagree. I think there is no way you can say "Without question..."

In fact, I think it has gotten worse. There were more substantiated stories about tampering, texting, roster control, etc than there ever has been before. Last year it was rumors. This year there were reports from coaches and an actual fine handed down by the NFL.

Oh, so it wasn't 32, it was Mac. OK,, That clears that up.

Atmosphere in cleveland is more positive. There isn't anything to refute that statement in and of itself.

About the only person on this board that speaks of Dysfuncation these days is you and maybe one or two other posters.

I get the sense that because we are in a lull right now, that sometimes leads to feeling better about things than perhaps we should. I get that.

But, my general perception (and it's just my perception not known fact) that as a city/area/region that lives and dies with the Browns, optimism is up.

I don't know many (any really) that think Manziel is the answer. But beyond that, most are happy we are building a strong foundation. That I think is very true. JMO, but that's what I personally believe.

So yeah, I'd say the atmosphere is generally trending up.

From our Banner, Lombardi, Chud firing - You are saying the atmosphere is worse. I know I wear those Brown n Orange glasses but if that is what you truly see...I have to question your glasses.

No, 32 was responding to mac's quote.

Look, I wasn't attacking 32. He voiced his opinion. No big deal. I disagreed w/it and Willie came along and called me out. I told him to do some research and he got all confused. I wasn't asking him to research 32? LOL

I was asking him to do research about which teams don't the players want to play for. The Browns were 3rd from the bottom, just ahead of Buffalo and Oakland.

I wanted him to research Cameron's contract in Miami. Quotes from and about Mack. He turned things around and acted like I was the one who was whacked.

Go ahead, do the research for yourself. You'll see what I am talking about.

I am using facts. You are using rumors. Put your glasses on that.

I didn't see facts Vers..where? Show me - just saying so isn't fact. Worse than the atmosphere of last year when in one year we were doing a total REDO...come on. Get a new prescription - you ain't seeing things.

I like the way Your opinion is fact and mine is Homerism...lol

I think you have some facts wrong, but to be sure, I went back and did just a LITTLE research.

First, you got the Calling Out thing backwards. you called willie out.. Not the other way around..

This is your quote from further up this page.



That's you doing the calling out.. Just thought you might like to know..

Fact 1: Shanny [an actual coach] spoke about things going on in the FO and wrote a 32 point presentation to Haslam to justify his release from the team. You might not like Shanny. You have--and will--call him names, but the FACT is that it really happened.

Fact 2: Farmer was suspended by the league for the first four games of this upcoming season for inappropriately texting during games.

Fact 3: Cameron left Cleveland for Miami even though the contract was the same.

I will not add in any rumors. And all you have about Banner is rumors. There were no coaches who asked for their release because of how screwed-up the FO was. There were no penalties imposed by the NFL onto the FO. All that we had against them was a ton of negative rumors fueled by an angry press and fan base. Gee, The Three Stooges moniker must be a fact because a media guy said so.

See that.

Why do you ask when you don't want the answer. I responded to 32. I did NOT respond to Willie until after he called me out. Sheesh!

FACT: Banner was fired. I don't know if there is anymore definitive proof than that that things were not all hunky dory with Banner. There was just no one to report about his dysfunctions.

FACT: Mike Lombardi and LaCanfora were buddies. LaCanfora broke a lot of stories about the Browns. They were good stories when Lombardi was employed. They were bad stories when Lombardi was fired.

FACT: Every team in the league has dysfunction. The most dysfunctional team just won their fourth Super Bowl.

FACT: Players want off even Super Bowl winning teams sometimes.

I know where you're going with your posts. I agree with you more than eo. I think as a fanbase we need to be more objective. We need to understand what we are watching better. How anyone can predict we will improve on last year's record is ignoring the obvious - that we don't have a QB. We are in for a very long year.

But this whole dysfunctional notion is way overblown.

Fact one is a fact but I don't respect Shanny the way you do. All this transpired on his EXIT which was in his plans long before the season end. I don't have to tell you what I think of him.

Fact two is indeed a fact. I'm not quite sure how that is worse than having the FO fired from last year. TEXT vs Upheaval. Not a bright feather in his cap but not hard for him to put it behind him. I don't see the mistrust and travesty from the Local or National media. Oh it was news a month or so ago cause we were in the dead zone but if continued negatives we have not heard anything. It was news the suspension was handed down and pretty much we have heard hardly anything come of it. I think the words Mountain vs. Mole Hill regarding this indeed fact.

Cameron...yes, he did - I can sort of see why. I would move for Tanehill over McCown also. I would move also to Florida who's tax laws given him probably close to a mil more in liquid income. I would move also if I have injuries and the warm weather benefits me?

I'm sure the saying the Climate was better for him in Miami to Cleveland is true in several ways.

As far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately he probably will not last the contract. But yes without a doubt he preferred Miami to us. There are no Steeler, Ravens and Bengal Defense there.

Smoking gun - its a guy making a movement. A California WR type of TE. We are looking to Tough it smack time football here. I understand it. I don't think he hated our coaching staff, I'm sure he hated our instability with especially our QBs without a doubt. Probably the fact we changed OC whether it was Shanny leaving or us not wishing to move forward fact is we changed the OC again.

So I understand and can see why he moved. But not a testimony that we are in disarray.

Guess what Revis moved from the PATS. Suh from the Lions. Its called FA not a testimony to the team being in disarray.

Again this is how I look at it. And having some negatives which are facts...it does not prove your comments that things have gotten worse in the Players views nation wide and within our teams then we were last year.

Not even close. Facts don't alway mean your opinion is correct just the facts.

This is my last post on the subject because it's getting out of hand..

This was YOUR EXACT QUOTE:



That is you to Willie..

j/c

This whole thing is out of hand. This FO ended up looking like the newbs that they are.

Can they and will they improve? We all hope so. Did anyone think they were going to be perfect from jump street? But to pretend like they had their $hit together is crazy talk.

Shanny took a hike because there was no way to succeed with our QB situation then the sprung Manziel on him? Does the term, "We will minimize the QB position" ring a bell to anyone? Textgate? Say what you want about Shanny, and maybe some of it was true, but this was a mess he couldn't wait to get out of and I don't blame him. And what great coach did they replace him with? Someone who's never coached in the NFL before.

Now that doesn't mean it will be a flop. It also doesn't mean it will succeed. But anyone who wishes to wave some kind of magic wand and pretend like these things didn't happen? Good luck with that.

0-16 here we come!

Thanks Pit. I typically like standing on my own, but man, some of these recent posts are driving me crazy.

I knew exactly what was going to happen after the first two exchanges w/Willie, thus I decided to ignore it. He then says some crap that I have no answers because I was wrong. Then, Daman asks a question. I should have known better, but I answered it and a couple of others. Of course, he misses posts in between and writes it as if I attacked Willie.

A few days ago, a poster wrote that there are way more readers than posters and insinuated that it was because of me. I disagree. I have received PMs over the years that support my position and they are from people who don't post much.

My contention is that a lot of people are afraid to post because there is a group of posters on here that belittle, humiliate, attack, and gang-up on anyone that doesn't see it their way.

They discourage discussion, unless of course you agree w/them. You gotta say things like: "we are headed in the right direction," "ESPN bozos hate us," "we finally get it," or "let's sign a petition to not attend games until this guy is fired," "Fire two of The Three Stooges," "Banner is evil," etc, etc.

Most people don't want to deal w/the crap that these guys give me, thus they simply don't post. Discussion is not valued. It's our way or we'll attack you relentlessly.

Not all of the guys I disagree w/are like that. Mourg and I argue, but he is a fair guy. We both screw up at times and say dumb crap, but we still respect each other's opinions. ddbub and I disagree, but we respect each other. Clem is another one. Hell, you and I have fought like crazy, but we always respected each other. Diam and I used to go at it big time. I went to his house and stayed there. We almost came to blows, but it was all good and we love and respect one another. Heck, lately Rish is making a big push as a rational poster. He sees both sides.

I replied to tab in another thread and talked about balance. I evaluated several of Farmer's moves. Some were great, some were good, some were okay, some were poor, and some of them sucked. Do you know that NOT ONE FREAKING PERSON reciprocated? You know what that tells me, bro?

It tells me that it's all about preconceived notions and taking sides. And the truth be damned.

0 and 16?

Come on, man. You are being as dumb as those who say we have a really good team.

There is some talent on this team. No way we go winless.