https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/gregg-williams-says-denzel-ward-needs-be-tougher-healthier


Browns Notes: Gregg Williams criticizes Denzel Ward's "stupid" tackle that led to back injury

Defensive coordinator says Ward needs to be tougher, stay on the field

Daryl Ruiter
August 26, 2018 - 2:13 pm

Cleveland Browns cornerback Denzel Ward (21) tackles Philadelphia Eagles tight end Zach Ertz (86) during the first quarter at FirstEnergy Stadium. Ward was injured on the play.

Ken Blaze-USA TODAY Sports
Categories:
NFL
Browns

Berea, OH (92.3 The Fan) – As teammates knelt around rookie cornerback Denzel Ward Thursday night, Gregg Williams wasn’t too concerned.

He was frustrated.

Williams did not like the way Ward tried to tackle Eagles tight end Zach Ertz, which led to a back injury later diagnosed as back spasms.

“I was glad to hear that and maybe he’ll finally listen to me and stop doing those stupid things the way he’s trying to tackle and tackle the way I tell him to tackle and he won’t get hurt,” Williams said.

After catching a short pass from quarterback Nick Foles, Ertz went airborne as Ward ducked his shoulders to try and bring him down. As the two collides, Ward twisted awkwardly on the ground while trying to wrap the 6-5, 250-pound tight end up.

“I'm not worried as much about the wrap-up part of it. It's about getting the guy to the ground,” Williams said. “A lot of times what you do is you cut the guy. He should have cut the guy at that time right there instead of a 290-pound man running over his face.”

Like head coach Hue Jackson, Williams has grown tired of Ward’s nagging injuries and he made it known on several occasions while answering questions about the No. 4 pick in the draft from Ohio State.

“At this level, you have to stay healthy every day. As a pro, you have to understand there are so many things you have to do in a 24-hour day that it's your job to stay healthy,” Williams said echoing comments made by Jackson on Friday. “And I tell them all the time, there's two words that begin with the letter A they have to own to be a professional football player. One's accountable. The next one's available. When you're not available, you're working on your training room internships.”

Ward had a hip flexor injury on May 4 during rookie minicamp that caused him to miss 2 of the 3 practices and an ankle injury during training camp caused him to leave a practice on Aug 13 before retuning the next day. He’s been limited during practice on several occasions.

“Rookies have to understand this is not a scholarship league. You have to stay healthy and be on the field. If you're not on the field, then you're not helping us, and that's what you have to do. You have to be on the field and play.”

Ward is clearly in Williams' doghouse.

“He needs to make sure he's doing all the things he needs to do to stay on the field,” Williams said. “Otherwise, hey, he's not a football player.”





It seems like Williams is trying to make Ward tougher ... maybe growing tired of the bumps and bruises that aren't really injuries.

Ward has a TON to live up to ... if he's just average (or even above average) it's a big waste for us

I didn't like this pick at four. He most likely would've been available later.

but he would not have been there when the Browns picked next .. the first pick of the second round.

i think he means we should have taken Denver's offer to slide back (or any other offer)

I think this pick wasnt warrented in the first round, BUT, he will be fine as a CB. He has to grow into the role.

IMO, the coaches are trying to get Ward to play and tackle "smarter"...not try to make him tougher.

The Browns drafted Ward for his coverage skills..not his tackling skills. If Ward is constantly injured and not available to play, the value of the pick is diminished...but the Browns did improve the position by drafting Ward.

Please reiterate this when we are calling him an island the next several seasons.

You guys are nuts, this kid is a great player. The way he tackled the guy is what hurt him. He went at him like he was his size. That is being tough. He needs to learn that he is smaller, I get that, but he is fearless and IMO anybody questioning his play is a fool.

I wish some of the other bigger guys would watch the way he tackles, maybe they could learn something.

Every bit worth the 4Th overall. Time will show I am right about this.

I hope you're correct! I'll buy you a dinner if he's ever an All-Pro selection ... if he's not, you can do it for me

I'd rather have taken that defensive end, don't remember if he was there or not but...

If he does like Jabaal Sheard and outshines his highlight reel, I'm not gonna complain. I'm an OSU fan, but not a homer.

I wanted Chubb too.

We better hope:
A. Ward shines
B. Ogbah shines

This thread is mind-boggling.

First of all, Williams is criticizing Ward for wrapping guys up? Seriously?

Secondly, did Hue criticize Ward? I missed it.

Finally, are some of you nuts? Ward was the one pick that made sense and he has flashed on the screen.

Exactly. Right again Vers

Thats how I understand it.

Genard Avery helps to even the score imo.

Ward will come around with experience.

Ogbah/Nassib are going to see alot more snaps inside on rushing downs.

With Williams new look defense ... the
name of which escapes me at the moment.

So we will still be able to maximize our talent their.

He doesn't want a small DB to take on a big TE straight up, wants him to tackle low when it's an option. Smart IMO.

And yeah so far so good with Ward.

Browns DC Gregg Williams After Denzel Ward's Injury: He Needs to Tackle Better

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2792...o-tackle-better




Cleveland Browns defensive coordinator Gregg Williams believes poor tackling contributed to cornerback Denzel Ward's recent back injury.

"Maybe he will finally listen to me and stop doing those stupid things the ways he is trying to tackle and maybe tackle the way I tell him to tackle and he will not get hurt," Williams said, per ESPN.com.

Ward was forced to leave Thursday's game against the Philadelphia Eagles early because of back spasms after trying to tackle tight end Zach Ertz.

The rookie was able to return to practice Saturday, per Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal, but there is apparently still some concern about his tackling technique.

"What you do is you cut the guy," Williams explained. "He should have cut the guy that time right there instead of a 290-pound man running over his face."

Ward was the No. 4 overall pick in the 2018 NFL draft thanks mostly to his ability in coverage, although there are some concerns about his size at 5'11", 190 pounds. He only had 37 total tackles last season at Ohio State and has never made much of an impact in the run game.

As his coach sees it, the problem is less to do with his size and more about poor technique on the field.

Considering Williams has been a coach in the NFL since 1990 and is in his 17th year as a defensive coordinator, he likely knows what he is talking about on this topic.

I have often seen players go for the cut and thought why dont they tackle correctly and wrap them up? Well apparently its how they are coached for their safety I had no idea.

The first couple pre-season games, I thought Ward looked like a beast. He wasn't timid, he got right in there and tackled, played great. That may sound weird, but in the past we've had players that just stand there and wait for the guy to come to them, hence giving them an extra 5 yards plus.

jc...

j/c

I think taking this thing out in public was stupid. It should have been kept in house. Berating your players in public is a stupid thing to do.

Loved Ward, I was actually worried that the FO was going to think like posters on this board "not worth the #4".


Literally no one would say that about Marshawn Lattimore right now. Ward was faster, better hips and just as athletic as Lattimore and Ward never had a history of injuries like Lattimore did.

Not worth the 4 is arguable but I wouldn't agree with it. Not worth a 1st round is absolute nonsense. I am far more critical of taking Baker at #1 than I am Ward at #4.

Berating? He said he needs to tackle better. This is the NFL, if a certain player can’t take a little public criticism, maybe they’re in the wrong profession.

It's not about "taking it". There's just no need or call to take it public. None.

No, he's criticizing him for going low like he did, getting himself into an awkward position and THEN trying to wrap him up.

If you are going for the midsection and driving through him, then wrap him up.. if you are going down around the knees, then just cut him but don't wrap him up.

A. Not berating
B. He's a rookie and needs to stay humble... and listen to coaching.

No big deal in my eyes.

If you are hoping for a "by the book", PC kind of coach, you aren't going to like Williams very much.

I'm not looking for a PC coach. Just looking for one to keep comments on players in house. There's a difference between PC and having a little class. There was no need for a public statement about it.

It's funny how fans blow a gasket when players talk to the press about things that happen within the team and then go to bat for a coach doing the same thing.

Yeah, he isn't the sort to care too much about someone's feelings.

Also, we don't know just how many times it has already been addressed in-house.... but, we do know that it has. So, it started off in-house, then he got himself injured, now it's public because his injury made it public.

Yeah, the injury forced the coach to criticize the player publicly. That's it.

The phrase "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" comes to mind.

and yes, I'd say that the player being dumb enough to hurt himself doing exactly what he has been getting coached to NOT do and the coach then getting openly asked about that by the media most DEFINITELY is opening the door for the coach to send a very loud and clear message - publicly - to said stupid player. Maybe THIS TIME he will take the coaching.

j/c:

I'm not worried about Williams making it public. What I am worried about is if Williams is out of his mind. Despite what DC said, wrapping up is not a "bad" thing. Do you know how many tackles are missed due to guys not "wrapping up?" Furthermore, w/the new helmet rule, guys just "cutting" players will be much more prone to being called for penalties.

I really think Williams is misguided on this one.

Yeah, coaching. That's what talking to the media about what's going on in the locker room is called, coaching.

Ward went from Urban’s penthouse with plenty of safe spaces to Williams World ... talk about a culture change ... *L* ...

DBs are taught to cut players who are much larger than them . You dont want your 185 lb cover corner squaring up with a 235 lb RB . What Williams has said is 100% correct.

Sometimes when I read this Board I am astounded.

Ward already is an integral part of of the defense.

I disagree. You can go low, but you should still wrap. Dudes can't run w/out their feet. I think Williams is wrong on this one. Think about how many times announcers and fans have complained about poor tackling in the modern game. Launching your body like a missile only to bounce of the guy you are tackling is not sound, fundamental tackling.

I agree. Of all the guys to criticize.

OPn the video clip - around 44 seconds, Williams says exactly that. "It depends on the players size" ... and he referred to the same thing elsewhere talking about Ward taking on a 290 lb TE ... I don't have an issue. I don't think Williams is telling Ward not to wrap up tackle .... I think he's saying the #1 thing is protect yourself and instead of a head on wrap up - you 'cut' from the side. . . you can still wrap up but you avoid the guys momentum hitting you.

Momentum = velocity x mass. a 290lb man has a lot of momentum for a 190lb CB to absorb.

Exactly. And that is why guys bounce off of the ball carrier so often. However, if you wrap them up, their feet slow down and at the very worst, they trip over you.

I don't care how Williams and others in the NFL teach it. I'm saying they are wrong. Wrapping a guy up is far more effective than hurling oneself through the air. And again, "cutting" guys is going to lead to more penalties. They were showing some of the penalties this preseason on TV earlier. Most of them were because guys were diving at guys low.

I’m with U ... kids a baller ... u can tell ...

I haven’t really commented much ... its pre-season and we haven’t seen much ...

I’ve not really seen anyone else mention it ...

What do u think of our team speed on D? .... i’m very impressed with it ... is it just me or do u notice it also ...

Also ... what did u think of BBC at FS? ... it seemed to me like he was all over the place ... i’d Like to see more ... your thoughts on that please ...

Vers ... please share your thoughts on the above two subjects ...

How many times have folks complained about Haden not wrapping up, trying to always hit with a shoulder, only to miss.

SO we are going to take what announcers and fans say over what a 20 year defensive coach says ? I can say I have seen the same taught by other defensive coaches at the HS and collegiate level. Cutting them is not launching in and bouncing off the guy, if you are bouncing off the guy then you are not cutting correctly

1. Our team speed looks a lot better this preseason. We have guys flying around. Ward, Kendricks, a healthy Myles, Mitchell, Avery, and BBC have been flying all over the field.

2. It's hard to tell on TV sometimes, but the angles we had of BBC at FS showed a guy w/good range and very good closing speed. He flashed on the screen. I think I mentioned him during my comments on the Postgame thread.

We have both made our points to each other a couple of times. If we continue, it will lead to bad things. Let's just agree to disagree on this particular topic.

exactly

Ty ...

but the issue there is that he misses

Hee hee

Gregg Williams is "trying to help" his rookie CB stay healthy and avoid those unnecessary injuries. GW doesn't care if he is politically correct or not..he wants to use the opportunity to drive the point home to Ward.

Some fans never miss an opportunity to criticize but IMO, nothing here but good intentions.

Yeah, I've been around the internet way too long to not laugh at that.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

So, lets teach Ward to launch himself at the runner and get flagged for leading with his helmet. Unless your advocating he launch himself, feet first.

Or use his shoulder, but not miss like Haden

My comment had nothing to do about Williams. It was directed from some Board comments about Ward.

I agree Williams loves Ward. I am sure he was part of the decision to draft him. His critique is to get him to do it right so he is not injured.

No different than coaching a quarterback to slide and protect himself.

Ward is needed in this defense. He has to learn how to make plays and protect himself.

I am sure Ward knows Williams by now and how he coaches. I am unworried by hurt feelings.

The shoulders are too close to the head, and I don't like his chances of hitting a moving target while he's trying to be both the rifle and the bullet. Flags be a flyin'...

bone...my comment was general in nature, not directed at you or anyone in particular ...I should have used the JC before beginning my post..

..all is good !

Speaking of Williams (Marcus). Tackling - 2018 style...

Whiff big time.

one of the most boneheaded attempted tackles in NFL history

I played rugby - the best way to tackle is always wrap up.

I know you don't like Williams much - but I do not believe he is teaching people not to wrap up. He said wrapping was fine - that wasn't the [art of the tackle he was critical of imo. I believe - just like in rugby - the tackle needs to be at the legs from the side. Why take on the guy in such a way as his force is hitting you.

We'll see what happens - to me Ward has shown to be a great addition to the D.

Hue pretty much made it seem he told Gregg to keep his mouth shut on these type of comments to the media.

Well, I completly agree. Played rugby myself, don't even understand the concept of cutting being a good way to tackle anyone. Only excuse for not wraping is when you make a play for the ball, which is something that does not happen in rugby.

Use the momentum in your favour, and you don't have to cut anyone, and for sure you don't counter the momentum in a tackle specialy moving up. He does not need to drive up, nor should he ever do it, that will make your head and spine take all the force, you just wrap up and drag, don't stiff, ypu won't last long.

They should practice tackling without helmets.

Regarding GW, you just have to see our DB tackling to see that he has no regard for the health of the players... Actually that's a problem with D coaching in the NFL.

IMHO Ward was "stupid" not because the wraping, but because of the hitting/cutting.

Great example of what I am talking about.

There are a few times when guys need to cut guys to bring down the ball carrier, but I can't believe we are "teaching" that over sound, fundamental tackling where your wrap a guy up.

I don't think Williams wants Ward to tackle like that ALL the time; I think its against bigger guys who have more power and momentum in the given situation.

Personally I don't believe any coach anywhere in HS, College or the NFL is teaching anyone to "tackle" like that.

LOL........true.

Calling a young player who is performing very well "stupid" in a presser is classless and stupid IMO

Hue did not care for it either apparently.....

Hue Jackson tells Gregg Williams not to call players “stupid” in the media
Posted by Michael David Smith on August 27, 2018, 6:25 PM EDT

Browns defensive coordinator Gregg Williams told reporters after rookie Denzel Ward got hurt making a tackle that the injury was Ward’s fault because of the “stupid” way he tackles. Browns head coach Hue Jackson was not happy about that.

Jackson told reporters today that Williams needs to watch the way he talks about the Browns’ internal business publicly.

“Gregg does not get to do just what he wants to do. We will work through all of that. . . . We do not need to do all of that stuff in the media,” Jackson said.

This isn’t the first time there’s been tension on the Browns’ coaching staff. On Hard Knocks, offensive coordinator Todd Haley was shown taking issue with Jackson’s decision to give players days off during training camp, leading to a tense exchange.

With Jackson’s record as the Browns’ head coach at 1-31, any issues between Jackson and his assistants will be heavily scrutinized. If the Browns win this year, it will be easy to overlook any suggestions that he and his coordinators aren’t seeing eye-to-eye. If the Browns keep losing, problems on the coaching staff will be magnified.

Link

Hue Jackson tells Gregg Williams not to call players "stupid" in the media

"“Gregg does not get to do just what he wants to do. We will work through all of that. . . . We do not need to do all of that stuff in the media,” Jackson said."

Said Hue to the media ...


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...d-in-the-media/

You give Williams a pass and bash Hue? LMAO..........y'all never stop.

Well maybe Gregg can think about not calling players who are out there giving their best effort "stupid" to the media now.


There was no need for that by Williams. Now he gets to feel silly.

If internal things should stay "internal" when it comes to players, then that should go double when it comes to the coaching staff. Hue could have simply said "internal business is internal", but because, imo, he is threatened by his DC and OC, he feels the need to put them in their place publicly. He just undermined his DC in front of the world, and his players.

Why didn't you complain about Williams' comment?

Your hate for Hue is weird.

Williams didn't call Ward stupid. He called his tackling technique stupid. There's a difference.

Did Hue call Williams "stupid?"

I hate no one. Your obsession with "protecting his honor" is pathological.

Classy.

I also like the fact that Williams is trying to teach him how to keep his body to last longer.

That was one thing I remember Myles Garret saying was how he had learned to play without damaging his body.

If Williams teaching a smaller framed Ward who likes to hit..how to stay healthy and on the field longer..

Than coach it up Coach.

I did not see where he called Ward stupid...Just the Tackling method.

I was just going to post the same thing .. was on my way to look for the quote to post it ..

He called how he tackled stupid .. he didnt call him stupid ...

I could really care less .... he’s not at Urban’s star player spa anymore ... there are no safe spaces in Williams world .. *L* ...

My biggest take away from this is that this may be a sign Hue is very insecure .. no clue if theres reason for him to be but the way he talked to Haley in the one episode i thought was overboard ... no biggie in and of itself but now theres a pattern beggining to emerge ....

I hope he’s not feeling insecure ... thats a bad place to be making decisions from ...

Wow! Way to turn it around.

I see what you are doing here, Diam.

The BS Isle talk.

You keep selling it so you can throw Hue into the shark infested waters when the ferry hits choppy waters.

So.........next time you wanna talk football........talk w/Memphis, Vambo, device, peen, etc.

I answer every freaking question you ask me, but you blow me off when I ask you questions like "is it smart for a HC to allow a qb controversy?"

I see your posts on Hard Knocks and how you are so high on the coordinators and not one positive word about Hue...............who has been--by far--the most impressive coach on the show.

It's one thing to not like a guy and it is another to weave a web of deception in order to trap your victim. Have fun w/your new crew.

[quote]I hope he’s not feeling insecure ... thats a bad place to be making decisions from ...[/quotet]


Hue seemed very secure when he was telling the other coaches that he's making decisions from the bus..Because he's the bus driver..he drives the bus.

Here we go again .... u ain’t sucking me in Vers ... but once again I would appreciate it if you’d quit LYING and putting words in my mouth .... i’ve stuck up for your boy PLENTY ... i let your BS slide in the Urban Liar thread ... not this time ...

Just cause i don’t think Hues an angel and isn’t perfect doesn’t mean i’m setting him up ... like i said above, i’ve stuck up for him plenty ...

EVERYTIME, ANYONE says a negative word about Hue there part of the conspiracy ... thats getting as old and cringe worthy as those u defend him against ...

U didn’t like my answer in PM’s about your “question” about QB controversies .. I highly doubt your going to like it here either ... *L* ...

U caught Willie in a mis-step ... he stuck his foot in his mouth like we all do sometimes ... u called him out .... rightfully so ... he defended it like a good lawyer would then like a good lawyer u asked the “question” ... im paraphrasing ... do HC’s like QB controversies .... THATS NOT A QUESTION ... its an INSULT IN QUESTION FORM ... i’m not a fan of lawyers ... *LOL* ...

I’ll answer any legite question anyone has ... what i wont do is get involved with you and your posse ... sorry if my refusal to do that = i’m not worthy to discuss football with in your world ..

Look man ... i told u i was going to have fun and enjoy this season and this place with or without U ...

U don’t wanna answer my questions ... thats YOUR CHOICE ... it ain’t gonna keep me from asking them ...

Just cause u don’t like me won’t keep me from trying to talk football with U .. i can only control what comes out of this end of the keyboard ... lets see what u decide comes out of yours ...

OK ... u sucked me in this time .. *L* ... it will be the last ...

J/C

I'm a little miffed at Williams for his comments. We know what Williams is like, so it comes across worse than the tough-love that he intends, but I feel like that's something you say to the player but not the media. Using an injury to criticize a rookie for tackling technique is just a step too far for the media, in my opinion, especially when it detracts from a rookie who has otherwise lived up to the hype.

I'm also sick to death of reading about Ward being undersized. Literally the dumbest criticism I've seen of a player. He's right there with Casey Hayward, who was considered the best corner in the NFL last year. Except Hayward is about to turn 29 and Ward just turned 21. Marshon Lattimore won DROY and he's literally 6'0" 192. Ward is the same size as our other corners, Mitchell and BBC (192, but 5'9"), who are both looking like studs out there.

I can't fathom why this kid takes such heat for his size and why it's a constant talking point. He's not that small, there are a plethora of guys the same size who have zero issue. Not only that, but Ward is notorious for laying the wood. Kid is a big hitter who has dropped plenty of guys on their backside.

So, yeah, TL;DR - Williams needs to calm down. Ward took a low angle and it bent him. Save that for the player, not the press. The injury wasn't because Ward is small or bad at tackling. Just one of those things. He's fine, he'll be fine for week one, and he'll hopefully continue to shine.

“a web of deception”

Interesting turn of a phrase.

Not trying to "suck you in." I'm just saying you can talk football w/Memphis, WSU, peen, device, etc.

I wasn't trying to "catch" WSU into a damn thing. He made crap up. I corrected him. He tried to turn it around. The bottom line was this..................."is a coach right to try and avoid a qb controversy?" I asked you to reply. You went off on a freaking tangent.

It was a legit question. I get why you didn't answer it. You hate Hue and want him fired. You are setting up unrealistic expectations and when the team doesn't meet them, you are going to be all over his ass, just as you were last year w/all your dumb ass "Fire Hue" threads.

Good post. Can you imagine if Hue would have made the comments that Williams made about Ward?

LMAO..............this place would be going nuts!

JMO, would have been better to keep that in the locker room.

I agree, if you mean Hue's.

I didn't mind Williams's.

You want to avoid a QB controversy? Let the QBs compete and may the best man win the job. Sort of like every other position on the team.

You want to create a QB controversy? Squelch any semblance of a competition and anoint another guy as the starter.

In Willie-World...all I asked for was that the last few series per practice with the 111, go to the future...oh the horror. That's not making things up. That's expressing an opinion...while consistently opining that we are better off with TT winning the starting gig.

Calling me out in a Denzel Ward thread tells one all they need to know on the issue.

Williams was the one who was the ass. He doesn't even know what the hell he is talking about in this case.

Dude, you don't like me and I don't like you. Period.

That's all you've got as a response? I don't know you to the point of saying I 'don't like you' but I've dealt with many of your ilk in my lifetime.

You can't follow the bouncing ball long enough to get down to the issue...that's on you...not me.

I was willing to let you have the last word...not so much tonight.

That's all I have because that is all you are worth. Now, I am done discussing this w/you, but go ahead and get the last word in.

I'll take it...thanks...you think squelching competition is the path to avoiding a QB controversy...I think not. That is the basis of our most-recent disagreement.

Thanks for the last word though.

I didn't like Hue saying "Gregg doesn't get to do what he wants to..." quote. Shoulda kept that in house, as should Williams with his thoughts on Ward (I think that's what we get with a guy like Williams, though).

As for Williams being wrong about the tackling form, I merely took it as him saying a little guy doesn't have to take on a big guy up high. Not all the time, but generally speaking.

OTOH, I never played/coached so what the hell do I know?

So you are a big fan of the "He works hard, he's showing improvement, he still has some things to learn...." press conferences. Fair enough.... not much of a need for press conferences then.


Make no mistake, I have a line that shouldn't be crossed by players and by coaches... this just doesn't cross it.

Where would Gregg Williams get the idea that criticizing players to the media is acceptable?



https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/12/...coaching-gaffe/



https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2749...ill-ever-get-it

To be fair, Gregg Williams says dumb stuff all the time, this time it just happened to be about a player.

I don't think either of these are fair examples.

My issue, and I think what irks most people, isn't that a player was criticized. That happens all the time. It's part of football and always will be.

This time is different because it regarded an injury. Williams could have approached it with a little more tact and sensitivity. I can think of endless re-phrasings that don't come across as being so crass.

We expect players to be criticized for their play; but when it comes to a play that resulted in injury, there are better ways to go about it.

I don't think so.

It is about being smart. The CB doesn't need to take on a 250 lb tight end like that.

Chop him down and play another play.

And how do you chop a 250 lb without taking a hit?

Honestly had the hope this would be a nice start for a discussion about tackling.

The only reason I can think off the NFL to chop players is because its a paying show and people love hits and blood and players being carted out with concussions and neck and spine injuries.

Does not matter how big you are, yo have a high chance of getting hurt if you don't follow the fundamentals.

Now I can understand Greg being mad with Ward because he was trying to teach the fundamentals and Ward was not listening.In the play in question its obvious that there were some fundamental flaws, the most important and essential was Ward not being Squared and adding momentum by moving down -> up with this increasing the chances of hurting himself, specially on the neck and spine.

What I disagree with Gregg, taking into consideration that IMHO, he was just venting his frustration, is saying/teaching his DB's to CHOP...

The whole concept of chopping implies masses colliding at high speed....

j/c:

What's missing in all of these posts where people are lining up on "sides" yet again is that Ward is the best form tackler on the entire defense. LOL.........you guys kill me sometimes.

1. I love Williams, I don't understand the conflict with him when we have had great production and improvement in our Defense this year, YEAR 2 in the D.

2. as for tackling. The idiots in NY HS teach only the power Tackle tackle high lift the opponent and drive them back...lol idiots.

Form tackling is premium.
1. if you tackle correctly you don't feel a thing. Look lets make this simple. Your body BENDS basically in two places. The waist and the knees. If you can have your shoulders on the waist and the arms around the back of the knees. This is the perfect tackle. Oh and what oh what do we do with our heads...get that face mask right on the ball...if held in the middle of the body with two hands...ok get that helmet/facemask on the ELBOW of the ball carrier. I don't for the life of me understand how in youth football they do not teach FORM tackling any more.

???

j/c

Oh the irony.

We have one player who can't stay clean for a season to contribute to the team. Year after year he disappoints his team, his coaches and his fans. The coaches publicly support him when he leaves before training camp. The fans line up to support him as well.

We have another player who's in camp working his ass off and when a coach berates him in public the fan base applauds.

You can't make this BS up.

I think greg needs to learn to keep his comments about players in the locker room, behind closed doors.

What he said was disrespectful to the player, and if he really has an issue with the way he is talking, maybe he should as a coach, COACH him to tackle differently.

GW is an idiot....plain and simple. He is a wannabe tough guy that would get pounced any day of the week by about 9/10 average joes walking the street.

Hes also a hypocrite...



I don't remember anything by accolades for Myles from Williams... yet Myles has not proven he can stay healthy yet..... so which is it greg? Are you just an idiot, or a hypocrite?

Williams needs to A. Teach him to tackle then - hes had an entire offseason to do so and B. Needs to keep his comments in the locker room.

I think GW is doing a great job but like Trump sometimes his mouth gets ahead of his brain.

Our def looked good in preseason last year, too. Remember, we are playing vanilla offenses. Where was out D last year?

How many teams has Greg been fired from?

He has a lot to prove before I say hes doing a "great job". Also, you can take the political jabs to the forum...keep this football.

I don't like Gregg Wiliams as a person. I agree that he is "fake." However, I do think he is a good defensive coach and I can separate that from his personality.

I just think he was wrong to call Ward out. Ward is an excellent tackler. I think he is the surest tackler on the team. His form is textbook. I think Williams was talking out of his ass w/this cut stuff. There are a few times when you cut guys, but I sure as hell would never teach it as the go-to tackling style.

It's no wonder why the tackling in the NFL has gotten so poor over the years.

Not really seeing anyone “applaud”. I see fans saying it’s not a big deal as some are making it out to be. The only irony is the BS you are making up.

Ah so people don't, year after year excuse Gordon's actions? Letting the team down? Wasting his talent?

Yet a hard working guy busting his ass and doing his best for the team gets called out in public and that's fine to you?

Speaking of BS. You need to get that BS outta here! lmao

j/c:

I want to make one more point about this subject and it is a significant one. I hope that some of you are taking Williams' side over Ward's take the time to think about it.

When I played, I always said I would rather a guy go high on me than try to take out my knees. My knees were off limits. You went after them and we were going to fight. I think almost every football or basketball player feels the same damn way.

Flying missiles dive-bombing knees are the surest way to end a guy's career. Even if it isn't ended, it takes a long-ass time to recover from ACLs.

Think about it. When do you see the players get the most upset? High hits or when someone goes low and tries to take out their knees.

Gregg Williams is known for Bounty Gate. I think teaching guys to cut players as a primary form of tackling is not only fundamentally poor, but it is also dirty and cheap.

My thoughts on this ... on the actual subject ..

I think its another mountain out of a mole hill ... i don’t like what Williams did but i dont think he did anything wrong ... he didnt call Ward stupid ... he was getting a point across and he did it in a very trump like manner ... *L* ...

I’m a keep things in house kinda guy ... i’ve drilled Hue for it in the past more than once ... so i dont like doing that stuff in the press ... I also don’t think he said anything out of line ... he said it in a dumb ass non constructive way ... it was a HORRIBLE TEACHING MOMENT IMO ...

If this does bother Ward ... we made a bad pick ... a shut down corner out on an island needs to be way more mentally tough than that ...

STUPID comment by Williams thats been blown way out of proportion ...

Carry on Dawgs .... we gots work to do ...

9/9 is right around the corner ...

LETS GOOOOOOoooooooooooo

Are you even reading my posts? I am not blasting Williams for going public w/this. I am blasting him for his position.

You used to agree w/me about wrapping up. You loved it years ago when I made a comment about "you can't go anywhere w/out your feet." Remember?

What happened?

Why is diving at a guys knees a good way to tackle? Also, I know for a fact that guys in the NFL would much rather you go high than low. I can post articles to prove it. I googled it after I made my post about how I hated guys going after my knees. It's dirty.

I want to have a real football discussion about this rather than who is right or wrong to say things to the media. I don't give a rat's butt about that.

I think Williams is giving his guys bad advice. I also think that Ward has the best tackling form on the entire team.

I agree with that part ... the wrapping ... no doubt ...

I wasn’t clear enough ... i don’t think he called Ward stupid ... even though i dont like airing things in public i dont think Williams crossed any lines in going after Ward as far as that aspect goes ....

Wasn’t defending the words he used to describe what Ward did wrong ... dude had to have mis spoken ... the words that came out are not good tackling form ... i think he just phrased it wrong ...

I should have also said J/c as it wasn’t directed at u .. just my thoughts ...

Okay, I get the j/c thang.

But again, I don't care about all the hurt little feelings. I'm trying to talk football.

I think Williams is giving bad advice. I think it's also dirty to go after knees. I think it's stupid to dive at players and not wrap up.

I admit that occasionally you are in a position where you have to do it because there are blockers in the way and you gotta knife in there and try to take the dude out. But Williams is getting on Ward for "form tackles" and saying he needs to listen to the way he is teaching him to tackle.

I'm saying he is teaching them wrong. Dead wrong!!!!

I know you don't like Ohio State, but those guys are taught how to tackle. Look around the league and take note of all the DBs that come from Ohio State. Almost every single one of them is an excellent tackler. And Ward is near--or at--the top of the list.

And again.....google whether or not nfl players would rather get hit high or at the knees. You will see tons of evidence of what I am talking about. You don't try and take a man's knees out. It's a cheap and dirty tactic.

Agree with every single thing u just said except for i believe we see one thing differently ...

One thing ... i think Urban’s a lying pos ... just like Saban and a whole bunch more college coaches at that level ... but make no mistake about it ... i think hes a hell of a football coach and hes a great communicator that has hired good teachers ...

One of the reasons i wanted Ward over Chubb was cause of the rep of the OSU DB’s and how well and quickly they transition to the nfl ..

Anyhow ... if Williams is teaching them to tackle the way he came across then i’m With U .. i cant believe thats what he’s actually teaching them ... it makes no sense ...

I agree he’s a POS and going after knees is frowned upon and cheap ... just like crack back blocks ...

Touché. LOL

j/c...sort of.

Can someone please tell me what Ward did that was so wrong and what he "should" have done? "Should" being what Williams wants.

It looks to me like he did the usual today's-NFL-thing but got slightly out-of-position once he committed.

Given the asinine rules and penalties the NFL and NFL officials are calling on players who attempt to tackle accordingly, the safest tackle from a DBs point of view is to cut bigger receivers/TEs.

Sure, from the point of view of a RB, you would not like being cut...but it works and the NFL has no one to blame but themselves.

Nothing illegal or dirty about tackling low...jmho

mac, you like to research.

Go ahead and do one. I'm telling you that no way do NFL players like to be cut. Come at me high........I can ward you off, but don't go at my knees, b........!

What players WANT don't mean squat.

Mac is RIGHT. The assenine NFL is dictating what we see.

And they cover it up by saying we're concerned about SAFETY. MY ASS. They're concerned about another 1.5 Billion Dollar settlement.

Please explain on how cutting a player is the safest way to tackle. The amount of energy of a moving player is staggering, you don't stop him safely by being a wall.


Proper tackling like most of the things in football is a question of physics, leverages, momentum, center of gravity, etc

I actually think cutting its the worst way of tackling, you put yourself in danger, you put the other player in danger, and chances are you sooner or later going to make a fool out of yourself and lose a superbowl.

Regarding the rules of the NFL,I think any play that has the intention of punishing the opponent should be a foul, if you want a full contact,anything goes game, then remove the helmets and padding.

And it showed on the field during game day.
The defense was vastly improved from previous years. It was the only thing we could have hung our hats on last year. Just O was awful and could not compliment the D. Now I see improvement. I don't look at the stats and the score. I'm actually looking at the way they play. We made some great additions that will go a long way. Kid from Eagles Hendricks, big time addition. Avery all who wanted Chubb should get that one. Ward could be one of the next Island guy!

jmho

So I am not the biggest fan of Greg as I have stated, however - I blame this line of thinking on the NFL. I agree, as a player this is not how you want tackled for the reasons you stated, but as a coach trying to win a game, you don't want a penalty on 3rd and forever on a high hit to give life to a drive.

Yeah, there are several articles out there w/numerous quotes from players that the penalties for high hits are actually making the game more dangerous because of all the hits to the knees.

I agree our defense is improved, but I believe that is simply form a sheer talent standpoint of making it a priority in the draft and FA over the last few years.

Ill give greg credit, hes lasted in the NFL for 20+ years, so obviously guys think he knows what he is doing, and those are guys that know more than me and you.

Maybe its just his personality, or maybe its playing our safeties 50 yards off the ball, I just don't like the guys scheme.

When you add the talent we have on D, ANY defense is going to improve. I just question that we got the max out of the talent we have.

I don't think its "more dangerous" as we have seen concusions are costing lives and actually leading to deaths.

I think more frequent injuries yes, I guess its how you look it at.

As a player, I know exactly the guys you are talking about. They play the game for a short period of time as is, and want to make as much as they can as fast as they can before they have to hang it up. Knee injuries and cut tackles shorten that length of time. However concussions and head injuries will last forever.

I agree tho, players would ABSOLUTELY rather the trade off for injuries down the road, than injuries now during their prime.

Well under Greg our tackling went from sloppy, timid, and embarrassing to excellent. The man knows how to coach tackling. He almost always provides a defense in the top 10 of the league wherever he goes. He just has a tough mentality that wears out the Hubris of HCs. Doesn't seem to bother Hue though so lets hope he stays here a good long time.

His personality reminds me a lot of myself actually ^^ I mean that he doesn't sugarcoat things and just says exactly what he means. That can be offensive to some but I like it myself =)

The point I was making earlier...