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Posted By: Haus Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/11/18 03:58 PM
I came across this and thought it was a good read. They make mention of Cleveland being ranked #2 in defensive DVOA at -20.0% (this is that site's brand of analytics, where negative numbers mean less points and are therefore good for the defense.)

There are a lot of good links in there as well as some animated gifs to show key plays, with emphasis on plays made by Denzel Ward and Larry Ogunjobi.

..

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2018/film-room-browns-defense

Film Room: Browns Defense
by Derrik Klassen

The Cleveland Browns last had a winning record in 2014, when they got off to a 7-4 start with Brian Hoyer at quarterback. Unfortunately, they lost each of their final five games that year and missed out on the playoffs once again. In the three following seasons, the Browns amassed a whopping 4-44 record which included a winless season in 2017. With a win this weekend, the Browns could free themselves from that cloud of loss and misery by climbing above .500 for the first time in four years.

As will always be the case, Cleveland's quarterback has received a bulk of the praise for the team finally looking competitive again. Rookie Baker Mayfield is as sharp and well-equipped as young quarterbacks come, and he has delivered early on the promise general manager John Dorsey saw in him when he selected the signal-caller with the first overall pick in April's draft. Cleveland's offense is still far from a top-notch unit, but Mayfield's three performances have produced better results than what the team was getting out of Tyrod Taylor. Mayfield has made the offense look competent, and as sad as it may be, that is a notable step up for the Browns.

Without taking away from Mayfield's impact, however, it is the Browns' defense that has been the primary catalyst for their success. I know, I know, a Gregg Williams defense being the reason a team is winning is a mind-boggling concept, but that has been the case for Cleveland in 2018. Through five games this year, Cleveland's defense ranks second in the league per DVOA, edging out the likes of Jacksonville and Baltimore. Their defensive prowess is not the result of playing a breeze of a schedule, either. Cleveland's schedule ranks eighth in difficulty, making for a much larger task than Chicago's 24th-ranked schedule or Baltimore's 30th-ranked schedule.

Pass defense is the crucial difference between this year's defense and last year's. Cleveland boasted a monstrous fourth-ranked run defense in 2017, but their 26th-ranked pass defense negated any efforts made by the front seven. The team tried to scrape by with veteran cast-offs such as Jamar Taylor and Jason McCourty at cornerback, but the low-cost experiment failed and led to drastic, necessary changes in the offseason.

Cleveland brought in a slew of new defensive backs to be key contributors in 2018, but we'll focus here on thre of them: T.J. Carrie via free agency, Damarious Randall via a trade with the Green Bay Packers, and Denzel Ward out of Ohio State with the fourth overall selection in the draft. Carrie and Randall have both enjoyed varying degrees of success in Williams' defense and are a step up from what the team fielded a year ago. Ward, to the surprise of few, already looks like a bona fide star and has elevated the performance of the entire defense.

In addition to being a pro-ready technician out of college, Ward is a video game-like athlete. Though his 5-foot-11, 185-pound frame is on the smaller side, Ward's 4.32-second 40-yard dash (97th percentile) and 136-inch broad jump (98th percentile) make for an explosive athletic profile. Ward has the speed to run stride-for-stride with the NFL's best deep threats as well as to fire downhill to defend slant routes and handle the flat area.

One particular series versus Baltimore showcased the breadth of Ward's skill set.


Ward is matched up over John Brown in the slot on this play. Brown has been a dominant deep threat this season with seven catches of at least 20 yards, tied with DeSean Jackson for most in the NFL. Whereas most cornerbacks have struggled to match Brown down the field this year, Ward finds no issue in turning with Brown, latching onto his hip, and keeping up with each step. Joe Flacco's throw sailed a few yards over Brown anyway, but had the ball been in Brown's vicinity, Ward was in position to contest the catch point.

The following play, Ward was asked to cover Michael Crabtree on the outside on a third-and-7. Crabtree, a big-bodied receiver with excellent yards-after-catch ability, normally has the advantage in that scenario, but Ward put the clamps on him like he had done to Brown the play before.


Due to an off-coverage alignment, Ward ends up conceding a clean catch point, but that is typical of third-and-medium or -long situations. So long as a cornerback can rally to the receiver and stop them before they turn up the field toward the first-down marker, the reception itself does not matter. Ward does just that by instantly closing the gap between himself and Crabtree as the ball is in the air. Ward is able to corral Crabtree to the ground before Crabtree can gather himself and pick up the first down. In fact, though Ward never directly attacked the catch point, Ward's tackle lead to Crabtree failing to complete the process of the catch, resulting in an incomplete pass. Incomplete or not, Ward's explosion and effort to come downhill and hit Crabtree before he had a chance to get past the first-down marker is a noteworthy skill of Ward's and something that regularly pops up on film.

These two plays are excellent on their own, but they also highlight how Ward can move around the formation to attack the offense's best threat on a given play. In previous seasons, the Browns have not had a cornerback who could reliably move around to match different types of receivers from different alignments. Ward providing the defense with that type of shutdown presence eases some pressure off of the rest of the secondary.

Ward's early impact, as well as solid efforts from a number of veteran additions, have propelled the Browns' defense to a No. 2 rank in pass defense DVOA. In a passing league, a revived secondary has gone a long way toward making the Browns a good team.

The Browns also remain stout up front due to the star power they acquired in last year's draft. Defensive end Myles Garrett has rapidly ascended into the pantheon of elite NFL pass rushers. Garrett has racked up five sacks in five games so far, good for fifth in the league and only one sack behind league-leaders Geno Atkins and the Watt brothers. With his blend of power and bend around the corner, Garrett should only continue to punish opposing quarterbacks as the season goes on.

Cleveland's other, lesser-known star on the defensive line is defensive tackle Larry Ogunjobi. Ogunjobi posted a good rookie season in 2017, but has blossomed into a special run defender and a semi-truck of a pass rusher. Ogunjobi's skill set is a perfect match for Garrett's explosive, sometimes reckless style on the edge.


Ogunjobi is particularly effective against zone concepts, and he puts that on display here. Ogunjobi is lined up over the Jets' center before the snap for this play. As the ball is snapped, the play unfolds as an outside zone to the left, leaving Ogunjobi between the center and the right guard. If executed by the offensive line correctly, the center will knock Ogunjobi into the right guard so that the guard can make his way over and earn the leverage on Ogunjobi. The center's attempt to stave off Ogunjobi is futile, however, and Ogunjobi pushes through the block so as to never allow the right guard to get a proper angle on him. Ogunjobi splitting the two linemen means that the running back can not cut the play back, forcing him to run straight into linebacker Jamie Collins. It is not the flashy 8-yard tackle for loss you might see from Aaron Donald, but it is a damn good football play.

Ogunjobi can provide those splash plays from time to time, though, especially in the pass game. As of now, Ogunjobi is Cleveland's leader in pass rush pressures with 12 (subscription required). Ogunjobi has converted three of those opportunities into sacks, which does not include a sack that was taken away from him due to a defensive holding penalty during the New Orleans Saints game. While Garrett works around the edge and forces quarterbacks to scoot up, Ogunjobi blows up opposing centers and guards to collapse the pocket in front of the quarterback.

Like his teammate Ward, Ogunjobi is a fantastic athlete at his position, posting a handful of 75th percentile or better marks at the NFL combine in 2017. His 116-inch broad jump (96th percentile) was the highlight of his performance. When Ogunjobi gets clean opportunities to rush the passer, his explosion and closing speed often show up.


All it took for Ogunjobi to win this rep was a club to the center's left arm. In doing so, Ogunjobi was able to leverage himself to the outside of the center while also halting the blocker's attempt to slide in front of Ogunjobi. The sliver of space Ogunjobi created for himself was all he needed to burst past the center and bring down Drew Brees before the quarterback had a real chance to survey the field. Plays like this are why Ogunjobi leads the team in pressures and trails only Garrett in sacks.

The rest of Cleveland's front is filled out by young, quality starters and a strong two-deep. Players such as defensive tackle Trevon Coley and outside linebacker Genard Avery are not premier names, but both serve important roles on the team. Coley is a stable run-defending presence alongside Ogunjobi, while Avery serves as a promising young pass rusher and versatile piece for Cleveland's aggressive front. Second-year defensive back Jabrill Peppers has also come into his own as a box player, showing off the aggression and short-area range that made him a star at Michigan.

What the Browns have going for them now is a healthy blend of stability and young, growing talent. Stars such as Garrett, Ward, and Ogunjobi are clear centerpieces for the defense, but no one position group is lacking in talent. There is functional NFL caliber play across the board, even if Williams still sometimes fails to put them in proper position to succeed.

Hosting the Los Angeles Chargers this week, Cleveland has a chance to prove they have a legitimate defense and a competitive franchise. The Chargers enter this game with the third-ranked offense in DVOA, buoyed by their third-ranked passing offense. To this point, Cleveland has faced a couple of quality passing offenses, including the Saints, but Philip Rivers' Chargers attack is among the most lethal in the league right now.

Slowing down Rivers' race back to the top of the AFC West would be monumental for this developing Browns team. It was the Chargers who gave the Browns their only win during the previous two seasons, so it would only be fitting for them to be the team who allow the Browns to achieve a winning record for the first time in four years.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/11/18 04:37 PM
Defense will be the key this game IMO. Rivers is SO good and they have weapons all over the place.

We must have a good game plan to pressure, while not creating mismatches and space

I'll be curious to see how we defend them
Posted By: drobs Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/11/18 08:18 PM
Very interesting read. The writer obviously doesn’t rate Williams. Each to their own but I wonder which DCs would be better here? I think Williams is over aggressive and sometimes it’s very obvious what we do but the D is playing v well. Apologies for the slight off topic but I’ve read a few places where Williams is rubbished. I’m not defending or otherwise but would welcome a more educated view as I believe the criticism is harsh based on what I see. Our D is playing well. Surely the co-ord deserves credit?
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/11/18 08:33 PM
Perhaps moreso than other defenses, Williams' defense is highly dependent upon having the horses to run it. That's simply because he is so aggressive. If you get aggressive but don't have the players to pull it off, you'll get burned. Badly. A lot.

Well, we have some serious thoroughbreds and we're able to pull off being this aggressive. We will still give up big plays now and again because that comes with the territory - you aren't going to win on every play. The goal is to simply win more than you lose and keep points off the board as much as possible.
Posted By: drobs Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/11/18 09:06 PM
Thanks Purp. I see exactly what you say and I think the D achieves that. I think Williams deserves more credit than he gets. However let’s see how we go rest of the year.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/11/18 09:14 PM
Awesome read, thanks for posting.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/11/18 09:21 PM
Can we get to him while he is holding the ball. Blitz scheme and more vanilla pressure will help. Need some brutality and a few takeaways.
My thanks. This was a great read. Hadn't looked there before, but Sunday is Judgment Day.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/12/18 05:29 PM
Posted By: drobs Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/12/18 06:14 PM
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg

That was really fun to watch. So much for not disguising blitzes...
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/12/18 06:22 PM
Yep - great to watch and see it broken down.
Posted By: ThomasE Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/12/18 10:24 PM
not that he merits it but no mention of ogbah at all
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/13/18 12:26 AM
I wonder if certain posters will retract some of their statements about how obvious our blitz packages are or if they will ignore this and the and one I posted in the Game Day forum and continue to bash Williams?
Posted By: eotab Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/13/18 05:14 PM
Nice execution which we are seeing more and more in year two in this defense and actually every week more and more progress wink Hope they are on fire this weekend with Rivers!
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/13/18 11:23 PM
I think Rivers can be broken mentally and beaten. But he is really good, and he has a lot of toys to hurt you with.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/13/18 11:26 PM
Broken down mentally? Dude is one of the toughest guys in the NFL.
Posted By: Dave Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/13/18 11:45 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Broken down mentally? Dude is one of the toughest guys in the NFL.


Agree - he's a future HOF'er IMO.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/13/18 11:50 PM
Rivers is so smart and seasoned .. no way to fool him IMO
Posted By: tru_dawgs Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/14/18 12:10 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Broken down mentally? Dude is one of the toughest guys in the NFL.
Agreed 100 percent...Bar none, just a top notch QB that never gets the recognition he deserves...Very unorthodox delivery, but has amazing zip, placement, and his touch is perfect. Guy gets up after huge hits and has that fire his teammates love.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/14/18 01:50 AM
Funny. I read that and had the same reaction.

Our best strategy against him is to keep the ball away from him.

He eats blitzes. Gets rid of the ball very quickly.

There is no rattling him. He has seen it all.

We have to be very disciplined defensively.

Try to possess the ball.

Another tough game.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/14/18 09:03 AM
Originally Posted By: bonefish
Funny. I read that and had the same reaction.

Our best strategy against him is to keep the ball away from him.

He eats blitzes. Gets rid of the ball very quickly.

There is no rattling him. He has seen it all.

We have to be very disciplined defensively.

Try to possess the ball.

Another tough game.
well said
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/14/18 01:34 PM
Originally Posted By: bonefish
Funny. I read that and had the same reaction.

Our best strategy against him is to keep the ball away from him.

He eats blitzes. Gets rid of the ball very quickly.

There is no rattling him. He has seen it all.

We have to be very disciplined defensively.

Try to possess the ball.

Another tough game.


Yes, this will likely be a tough game, Rivers is playing lights out this year, with 70% completions and only two INTs so far this year. He completed 81.5% percent of his passes against the Raiders and is averaging 300 yards/game and 2.6 TDs.

BUT

His two losses came against the Rams & the Chiefs, both undefeated, and his three wins came against a Garoppolo-less 49er team, the Raiders, and the Bills. none of which are lighting up the league. Rivers has also historically been interception prone and I would like to think the Browns are closer to the Rams & Chiefs than the Raiders and Bills, particularly on D. Sure, our defense will have their work cut out for them, but so will Rivers. We will be facing one of the toughest defenses he's had to face so far this year and if tendency and odds come into play while meeting a ball hawking D then it's entirely possible we come away with a pick or two. That's not counting potential fumbles or strips. After all, we lead the league in turnover ratio. Lead. The. League.

If I were Rivers, I'd be more concerned about our D, than I personally am about Rivers. The Browns needs to go out and execute, and let the rest take care of itself.

JMHO
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/14/18 08:51 PM
Never mind. Disregard everything I posted except the first part.
Posted By: CHSDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/14/18 09:22 PM
You weren't too far off. We had a lot of missed opportunities for turnovers today.
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/14/18 09:28 PM
Well, we certainly didn't "go out and execute". tongue
Posted By: BuckDawg1946 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/14/18 10:55 PM
Get rid of the white one white uniform combinations, I’m not making excuses, but players play better when they feel like they look good.

More brown, more orange.

A case study shows Kinnick stadium in Iowa, gets a competitive advantage by painting the visitor locker rooms being pink, not saying Iowa doesn’t produce talent.

The browns are 2-0 in their color rush, brown uniforms. The chargers are a better team, that’s not why we lost, just invoke confidence in your gear, we know what doesn’t work.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/14/18 11:12 PM
Originally Posted By: CalDawg
Never mind. Disregard everything I posted except the first part.
brownie
Posted By: SuperBrown Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/15/18 12:16 AM
The Browns defense was quite offensive today.
Posted By: Tulsa Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/15/18 12:19 AM
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
The Browns defense was quite offensive today.


and in the post-game pressers, the offensive was quite defensive.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/15/18 12:24 AM
Originally Posted By: Tulsa
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
The Browns defense was quite offensive today.


and in the post-game pressers, the offensive was quite defensive.
yeah, we were backwards all day
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/23/18 10:40 PM
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/23/18 10:45 PM
Thank you, Mr. Ward.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/23/18 10:46 PM
That was much too simplistic. Sorry about that. But, he is playing very well.
Posted By: DeputyDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/23/18 11:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
That was much too simplistic. Sorry about that. But, he is playing very well.


It is simplistic, but I've been checking the math and from what I have calculated.....



















Ward + Garrett = Win
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/23/18 11:13 PM
Originally Posted By: DeputyDawg
Ward + Garrett = [Almost] Win
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/23/18 11:16 PM
It's pretty amazing that we have maybe got 3 excellent players in the last two drafts at the 3 most important positions on a team.

QB, Edge rusher, CB.

I do have to say that acquiring Randall was huge, too.

One more thing. I hated Gregg Williams because of his bounty gate stuff. I don't believe in playing the game that way. But, he's doing a good job w/our D. I think one of the reasons the passer rating for opponents is so low is because of all the turnovers we are forcing on D. That's because GW brings pressure. It might backfire at times, but big plays are big plays and turnovers are huge in the NFL.
Posted By: DeputyDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/23/18 11:30 PM
Yeah, I was pretty unimpressed when we traded for Randall. At first I thought he was a less than average CB, but while I felt better, I didn't think he'd be the total answer when I found out he was playing FS either.

Not only did he shock the heck out of me at FS, he also showed me I was wrong about his skills as a CB as well.

I knew GW was going to turn this defense into a machine, I just didn't think it would happen this early.

When the offense starts clicking, the job of the defense is going to get easier too.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/23/18 11:36 PM
Quote:
When the offense starts clicking, the job of the defense is going to get easier too.


I agree w/all of what you said, but want to focus on this one for a moment.

The D has been catching some grief, but I think they get worn down at times because they lack depth and the O puts them in a lot of bad spots.

I think the D will improve significantly once the O finds more chemistry and doesn't have so many short possessions.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/23/18 11:37 PM
I think we're just a couple more pieces away on D: one more solid-to-above average player on each level, if that.

I thought Mitchell was playing well until he got hurt, btw. I like him as a corner, and Randall has been a nice surprise.

We've given up a tonne of yards in some games, and a lot of points to the Raiders and chargers, but we have a D with lots of room to grow. Garrett, Ogbah, & Ward are players only beginning to scratch the surface.

One more season guys, and we will be a force on D.
Posted By: DeputyDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/23/18 11:52 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
When the offense starts clicking, the job of the defense is going to get easier too.


I agree w/all of what you said, but want to focus on this one for a moment.

The D has been catching some grief, but I think they get worn down at times because they lack depth and the O puts them in a lot of bad spots.

I think the D will improve significantly once the O finds more chemistry and doesn't have so many short possessions.


It's the biggest problem for the defense and I'll go as far as to say it was the biggest problem for them last year as well.

When the other team is even or has the lead, they can run any freaking play that they want. Every player's job on the defense is that much harder. You often have to cover more space. Add to that constantly being on the field, because the offense can't eat any clock, and you are physically and mentally tired. When this happens game after game you are emotionally tired and expect the meltdown.

Now when you have the lead, it's lunchtime. The other offense starts to abandon the run more and you can pin your ears back a little more. Your DC doesn't feel as bad resting a starter a bit on the d-line. When you are up more than two scores, you can go into prevent with a few minutes left. You might not know what plays they will run, but you'll sure as heck know the ones they won't run.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/23/18 11:53 PM
Last year we were not to good at creating turnovers.

It stuck in the craw of Williams. It was an area he intended to improve this year.

Not only are we getting picks but when you look at the fumbles it is no accident. We are punching the ball going for rips.

The turn around is impressive.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/23/18 11:59 PM
Everything you and Dep said is true in my opinion. Good football talk, guys!!!

The other things that are important in my mind is to improve the depth and increase the team speed. We did get faster this year, but I want an even faster D. I also have confidence that Dorsey will continue to improve the roster.
Posted By: DeputyDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/24/18 12:10 AM
LOL, this convo is bringing back some bad memories for me.

One year, I was captain of my Pee-Wee football team's defense. I played MLB, but could line up anywhere from NT to deep safety and coach let me call the plays on defense.

We gave up only 1 TD and lost 2 games that year.

You read that right, we lost one game to a safety.

We lost our main QB week one and our back-up QB week 3, so needless to say our defense was on the field a lot that season.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/24/18 12:21 AM
Wow!
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/24/18 02:51 PM
Good stat there in regards to passer rating allowed.

The Browns are talented on the line and in the secondary. The secondary is a key difference compared to last year.

In the modern NFL, with all the rules designed to protect QBs and receivers, you really have to have some talent in the secondary to reliably get stops. This is especially true against the best teams.

We see how Brady is a master at getting the ball out quickly, he moves around in the pocket very well, Roethlisberger has always been a beast to bring down. Obviously you need a pass rush too but it's usually not going to get there in time.. you need guys on the back end who can actually cover.

This is where the additions of Ward, Randall, Carrie, Gaines, and the improvement of Peppers has really helped. Avery has been a nice addition as a situational pass rusher. There are others of course.. this defense doesn't really have any obvious holes like the offense does.

It'll be interesting to see how the defense develops going forward. If you're John Dorsey and looking to improve this defense in the off-season and have limited resources (because most picks/free agents are going toward offense), what do you prioritize? Run stuffing DT, Linebacker, Second corner? All of the above?
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/24/18 03:01 PM
I think that getting Mitchell back for the stretch run should help.

Props to Williams for keeping Carrie inside and moving Randle to CB and BBC to FS last Sunday.

Carrie has been more effective for us inside than outside ... better than BBC imo.

That was a good move.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/24/18 04:39 PM
Larry Ogunjobi: The best defensive lineman you don’t yet know

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/...rry-ogunjobi/3/

The Browns stand at 2-4-1, they’ve had more than their share of gut-punch losses this season, and head coach Hue Jackson is talking about taking responsibility away from offensive coordinator Todd Haley. This current dumpster fire is a relative improvement over the 2017 dumpster fire that led to the second 0-16 season in NFL history, letting the 2008 Lions off the hook.

But under all those negative narratives is one encouraging truth—Cleveland’s pass defense is among the league’s best and most consistent. Coming into Week 7, the Browns ranked third in Football Outsiders’ opponent-adjusted pass defense metrics, and sixth overall. One can have issues with defensive coordinator Gregg Williams’ concepts at times (like putting his safeties 20 yards off the ball in traditional rushing situations) and still understand that this Cleveland team is building something special on the defensive side of the ball.

Among the most important reasons for that improvement is second-year nose tackle Larry Ogunjobi, selected in the third round of the 2017 draft out of Charlotte. The first draft pick in school history, Olumide (the name means “Our savior has come”) Ogunjobi was born a year after his parents moved to America from Nigeria, and he wasn’t into football until he hit high school. Once he did, though, Ogunjobi started to impress, and he’s now one of the NFL’s best players at his position.

Nose tackles aren’t generally racking up pressure numbers—more often, they’re taking on double teams so that the guys around them can share the stardom. But in Williams’ defense, even when he’s head-up over the center, the 6-foot-3, 305-pound Ogunjobi is a highly disruptive presence. Yes, he has the leverage and root strength to be a hole-plugger in the middle, but he also has the gap quickness and forward momentum to create havoc from multiple angles.

Per Pro Football Focus, among interior defensive linemen in 2018, Ogunjobi ranks sixth in total pressures with 26, behind Aaron Donald, Fletcher Cox, Geno Atkins, DeForest Bucker, and Ndamukong Suh, and he’s playing at a level that proves that he belongs among those names.

This sack of Jameis Winston in Cleveland’s 26-23 overtime loss against the Buccaneers last Sunday shows a quickness you don’t expect from a nose tackle. Ogunjobi is head-up on center Ryan Jensen (No. 66), but that’s not where he stays—as linebacker Genard Avery (No. 55) takes a double team with an inside move, Ogunjobi moves outside right guard Caleb Benenoch (No. 77) and closes quickly to the quarterback. To run a stunt like this, you have to trust that your nose tackle will explode across the gaps. Ogunjobi proves worthy of that trust.


This sack of Philip Rivers in the Chargers’ 38-14 win over the Browns shows another aspect of Ogunjobi’s explosiveness. This is a five-man blitz with linebacker Joe Schobert (No. 53) looping outside the right tackle, and Ogunjobi taking left guard Michael Schofield III (No. 75) to the cleaners. Schofield thinks he has Ogunjobi pushed outside the pocket, but Ogunjobi recovers and uses the momentum of the push to shoot himself right to Rivers, taking him down with Schobert’s help.


Ogunjobi didn’t register a sack in Cleveland’s 12-9 Week 5 win over the Ravens, but he blew up several Joe Flacco passing attempts. On this second-quarter near-sack and incompletion, the Ravens make a major mistake—they fail to block Ogunjobi at all. Left guard Alex Lewis pulls to the right side to block end Emmanuel Ogbah (No. 90), and center Matt Skura (No. 68) pushed end Myles Garrett out of the play. That’s all well and good, but right guard Marshal Yanda (No. 73) doesn’t get to Ogunjobi in time, and it’s an easy pressure as Ogunjobi blasts through to the pocket.


“Just the ability to play more and understanding and recognizing the different blocks and being able to rush the passer better,” Ogunjobi recently said about his development from his rookie year into his second season. “My offseason training, I really focused on pass rush. I always felt like I could run stopper, but I wanted to be able to be good at the pass, too. That way, I could be able to get to get after the quarterback I feel like with just me being on the field more and me just paying attention to detail.”

Having already doubled his pressure total from 2017 in just seven games and establishing himself as a key cog in a quick-developing defense, Larry Ogunjobi is seeing that hard work pay off.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/24/18 04:41 PM
Browns defense has taken a big step forward. But they have been on the field a ton. Have gone to OT in 4 games & played more snaps than any other NFL defense by 34. Now visit #Steelers after playing season-high 95 snaps (includes penalties) in Week 7. PIT is coming off its bye.

Related: Larry "Ironman" Ogunjobi has played almost 100 more snaps than any other defensive tackle in the league.

https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/1054846779735326721
Posted By: drobs Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/24/18 07:35 PM
I enjoy watching our D because they make plays. I think it’s the way to go the way the NFL is being pushed into a pass happy, high scoring league. You will give up chunks and TDs but if you can win the turn over battle you are way more likely to win*

Garrett, Ogunjobi and Ward are probowlers in waiting. I like the edge we play with. We have become more physical. Garrett - man, anyone watching him I don’t see how you can’t go wow almost every play. He’s always literally at the QB in seconds forcing a throw or pushing the pocket. He is also almost always held and it doesn’t get called. That strip sack last week, 3 minutes left - your playmakers make plays. He’s awesome and scarily has room for growth.

Next year, if we have continuity, I see a big leap. Baker in year 2 and D in year 3. Another DB or 2, a LB, viable DL depth and the D should be top tier and allow starters to rest. I really see a playoff spot as viable next year, I truly do.


* takes the Browns to always be the exception rather than the rule
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/25/18 11:32 AM
Originally Posted By: drobs
I enjoy watching our D because they make plays. I think it’s the way to go the way the NFL is being pushed into a pass happy, high scoring league. You will give up chunks and TDs but if you can win the turn over battle you are way more likely to win*

Garrett, Ogunjobi and Ward are probowlers in waiting. I like the edge we play with. We have become more physical. Garrett - man, anyone watching him I don’t see how you can’t go wow almost every play. He’s always literally at the QB in seconds forcing a throw or pushing the pocket. He is also almost always held and it doesn’t get called. That strip sack last week, 3 minutes left - your playmakers make plays. He’s awesome and scarily has room for growth.

Next year, if we have continuity, I see a big leap. Baker in year 2 and D in year 3. Another DB or 2, a LB, viable DL depth and the D should be top tier and allow starters to rest. I really see a playoff spot as viable next year, I truly do.


* takes the Browns to always be the exception rather than the rule


Last year I started by loving GW,then just simply hating his D and lack of smartness.

I still do to a point, I'm starting to think he is using the time he has to coach the D to play aggressive, even in times where the last thing we need is to be aggressive.

So now I'm more or less on the middle. I actually think Haley is giving us a good grinding type of O and the GW has't figured it out and keeps on calling plays like a maniac.

In conclusion, If GW turns out to be smart coach, and starts to use the aggression he coached and developed intelligently, then yes, this can be a great thing. If he is just a loose cannon looking for highlights, then no....

He has 1/2 a season to show if he can keep other teams from scoring more in the 1st half,and then let Haley win the game in the 2nd half. Judging from the division games, I think he can. But lets see against Pit....
Posted By: Halfback32 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/26/18 01:33 AM
When did Randall get moved to CB ?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/browns-coordinator-haley-says-jackson-same-page-190229037--nfl.html


Jackson remains confident C JC Tretter (ankle) and Damarious Randall (groin/ankle) will play Sunday. Randall, who has moved from free safety to cornerback, had high praise for Steelers WRs Antonio Brown and JuJu Smith-Schuster. ''I'm a big fan of both of them,'' he said. ''I love the way they play the game - toughness, grit and fight that they have each and every play.''
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/26/18 01:45 AM
Quote:
When did Randall get moved to CB ?


Last week against TB.

As you know, Mitchell was out. Then, EJ Gaines was out w/a concussion, thus we moved Randall to corner, kept Carey inside, and put BBC at FS.

Brilliant moves.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/26/18 01:36 PM
I wouldn't have had the nerve to move Randall from FS, but if Carrie is being abused, then it makes sense.

I'll allow it... :-p
Posted By: tru_dawgs Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/26/18 02:13 PM
Jc...I hate when we slide Kindred over a WR to essentially play CB...that has never been his forte
Posted By: drobs Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/26/18 02:28 PM
Randall has been excellent at safety but he has experience at corner from his Packers days so I see the logic. I think he’s pretty good in man or zone so has the skillset. Mitchell back will be a boon to this D. I hope we pick up at least 2 DBs next offseason. Can never have enough.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/26/18 04:19 PM
We also have some versatility with Boddy-Calhoun.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/26/18 10:57 PM
The #Browns pass defense gets stingy when it counts the most. Their 58.9 passer rating allowed in the Red Zone leads the NFL, far below the league average of 95.0

https://twitter.com/PFF_Browns/status/1055956556792168448
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/26/18 11:01 PM
They're going to be tested this week. The Steeler's O is rolling.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/26/18 11:49 PM
I think it is imperative that we get after Ben, and control the clock on O, to limit their TOP.

No one else probably ever thought of that. wink
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/26/18 11:50 PM
brownie
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 10/27/18 12:50 AM
I think that's why the Chargers wanted to hammer us on the ground. Just keep attacking the run defense
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/13/18 09:14 PM


We used to be first in blitz percentage by a wide margin.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/13/18 09:20 PM
I think we've backed off as we've been forced into less press-man coverages by injuries.

That, or we're just actually learning, lol!
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/13/18 10:15 PM
Just a side comment...

I hate that the steelers hashtag must be #herewego. Makes me want to punch them in the mouth.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/28/18 10:55 PM




Posted By: keithfromxenia Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/29/18 12:27 AM
Does anyone else remember just a few years ago we could not stop anyone on third down. 3rd and 10, we give up 11. 3rd and 20, we give up 22. It was awful!! Nice to see these new stats.
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/29/18 01:23 AM
This is fantastic. Thanks for sharing.
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/29/18 02:03 AM
Nice post.

When a defense gets off field on third down, a lot of times it's because a pass rusher or DB made a play. Those are two areas the Browns are talented at.
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/29/18 02:07 AM
Originally Posted By: keithfromxenia
Does anyone else remember just a few years ago we could not stop anyone on third down. 3rd and 10, we give up 11. 3rd and 20, we give up 22. It was awful!! Nice to see these new stats.


I was just gonna make this comment. 3rd and 20.. we knew it'd be a first down.

So nice to see us leading in that category this year.

I'm seriously loving this Randall Peppers duo at Safety.
Posted By: CapCity Dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/29/18 03:04 AM
The Redskins at 95.8%? Yikes.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/29/18 02:52 PM
j/c:



#NoRealPlayers
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/29/18 02:59 PM
Schobert is very underrated. He's not flashy, but is consistently where he should be and makes plays. Getting another LB like that would go a long way toward shoring up the middle of the defense.
Posted By: jfanent Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/29/18 03:02 PM
Wow! He's in good company there.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/29/18 03:09 PM
I have to admit.... I never thought much of him when we first got him and I constantly thought him starting at LB was akin to us starting Boddy-Calhoun at CB - it was more about lack of anything else to put there than it was about him being talented enough to lock that spot down, BUT Schobert has proven that opinion of mine to be wrong. Dude is flat-out playing!

I still want Devin White in the Draft - if we think he can play outside because I think Schobert has the inside on lockdown.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/30/18 01:18 AM
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/30/18 01:21 AM
And 1st in "Bwa-ha-ha!" moments.
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/30/18 03:56 AM
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


he's also entertaining to follow on twitter
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/30/18 06:59 PM
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/30/18 07:27 PM
We have a DROY candidate and he is our second best pick. That’s insane. The future is bright.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/30/18 07:50 PM
Blake Williams gave a press conference today. In it he said that’s been calling the plays on defense the last two games. That is not insignificant. The Falcons game was an offensive day for the defense. Not coincidentally, we had Schobert back for these last two games.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/video/blake-williams-joe-schobert-is-a-football-junkie
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/30/18 08:03 PM
What's really bizarre is that we have 3 guys who, if they continue to develop, could be Pro Bowl players next year. (Mayfield, Ward, Chubb)
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/30/18 08:09 PM
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
What's really bizarre is that we have 3 guys who, if they continue to develop, could be Pro Bowl players next year. (Mayfield, Ward, Chubb)


I could argue that Chubb and Ward should be in the Pro Bowl this year.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/30/18 08:18 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
We have a DROY candidate and he is our second best pick. That’s insane. The future is bright.


Very exciting!
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/30/18 09:09 PM
Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
We have a DROY candidate and he is our second best pick. That’s insane. The future is bright.


Very exciting!


One, not me, could even make the argument that Ward is our third best rookie behind Mayfield and Chubb.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/30/18 09:23 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Blake Williams gave a press conference today. In it he said that’s been calling the plays on defense the last two games. That is not insignificant. The Falcons game was an offensive day for the defense. Not coincidentally, we had Schobert back for these last two games.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/video/blake-williams-joe-schobert-is-a-football-junkie


I have to say, after giving this a full watch, this press conference was one of the most interesting I've seen a coach give. Williams gave a ton of insight into the inner workings of a coaching staff and how the week goes. He obviously hasn't had a mic in front of him very often because he was way too engaging.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/30/18 09:34 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
We have a DROY candidate and he is our second best pick. That’s insane. The future is bright.


Very exciting!


One, not me, could even make the argument that Ward is our third best rookie behind Mayfield and Chubb.


I'll raise my hand on that possibly being the case. I think an argument could be made for Chubb being a better rookie when the season is completed, no doubt about it....considering he just recently got the starting nod and has flourished since taking over. I think people like Ward, and rightfully so, because he started off strong week 1. Unfortunately for Chubb, he didn't get that chance with Hyde here.

Since the trade, Chubb has been 'lights out' each game. However, I'd like to see more of Chubb in the passing game. There is some concern about his pass blocking, which is warranted, but If he becomes the RB pass catching "weapon" for Mayfield, we'll have a complete back similar to Gurley, Elliot, Gordon, etc. Maybe not exactly like them, but I think you get my point.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/01/18 01:25 AM
No doubt ... heck, they could be this year
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/01/18 12:57 PM


Damarious Randall was mic’d up last Sunday when he helped the Browns defeat their division rivals, the Cincinnati Bengals, 35-20. He recorded his 3rd interception and displayed a level of confidence that kept his teammates pumped up through the entire game.
Posted By: drobs Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/01/18 01:37 PM
Randall is becoming one of my favourite players. Loved it when he was jawing at the Bengal that Garrett was going to get him laugh

Loved seeing cameraderie between the O and D. I think we have the foundations of something truly special here.
Posted By: Tulsa Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/01/18 01:50 PM
I just hope that by the end of the season, I can shake this battered fan syndrome that’s keeping me nervous, with a 35 - 7 lead.
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/01/18 06:13 PM
Love the camaraderie and the attitude.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/01/18 09:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Tulsa
I just hope that by the end of the season, I can shake this battered fan syndrome that’s keeping me nervous, with a 35 - 7 lead.


LOL, I was super nervous at 35-7.
Posted By: brownieforlife Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/02/18 06:11 AM
Maybe 1 or 2 THIS FLIPPLING YEAR
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/02/18 06:19 AM
Originally Posted By: Tulsa
I just hope that by the end of the season, I can shake this battered fan syndrome that’s keeping me nervous, with a 35 - 7 lead.


I wasn't nervous at all. I had a giant grin.

Because I saw how we played in the first half. And knew we could do it again if we had to.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/02/18 06:56 AM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: Tulsa
I just hope that by the end of the season, I can shake this battered fan syndrome that’s keeping me nervous, with a 35 - 7 lead.


LOL, I was super nervous at 35-7.


I was actually calm, and excited. For once, my heart wasn't going 10,000 miles/hour.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/02/18 10:35 AM
I was kinda bored ... NOT ... *L* ..

When it got to 15 and we went 3 and out i got that feeling ... for about a minute and then strangely it went away ... it was really wierd i was all of a sudden extremely calm .... really strange ..

Just another thing DIFFERENT about this year ... thumbsup
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/02/18 11:10 AM
Another chance to prove your season-long point today Diam ... hope we come out firing
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/02/18 10:06 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Another chance to prove your season-long point today Diam ... hope we come out firing


We did, unfortunately it was at our own feet.

Growing pains against a very good team.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 02:08 PM
j/c:



#NoRealPlayers
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 03:05 PM
It hits me like PTSD. I have these second-quarter reflex feelings of doom. It is like it is conditioned in after years of being a Browns fan (first presented itself in 1999. Just starting now to enjoy a lead and a win now and then.

There has to be some sort of 12-step program for Browns fans. Might need more like 16 steps for severe cases. . . .
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 03:19 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
We have a DROY candidate and he is our second best pick. That’s insane. The future is bright.


Very exciting!


One, not me, could even make the argument that Ward is our third best rookie behind Mayfield and Chubb.


At different times in games, each has shown how valuable they are. Off the field, no drama (except for Mayfield and his comments on Jackson)
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 03:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
We have a DROY candidate and he is our second best pick. That’s insane. The future is bright.


Very exciting!


One, not me, could even make the argument that Ward is our third best rookie behind Mayfield and Chubb.


At different times in games, each has shown how valuable they are. Off the field, no drama (except for Mayfield and his comments on Jackson)



IMHO Ward is clearly our best rookie, and 2nd best in the league behind Saquan.

He is already a top player in the league in his position, Baker and Chubb are still far from being on the top.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 03:22 PM
That's my thing .. even if we are "good" again next year with Baker and some experience, I'll still feel the dread of the past ... it would take a while to overcome
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 03:23 PM
Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
j/c:



#NoRealPlayers

Here's the tweet for those it doesn't show up for: https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/1070669772667392000

The short version is he's currently PFF's #7 rated CB, and was also very good last year.



It reminds me of McCourty's comments while he was still a Brown: https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/01/jason_mccourty_bugged_by_those.html

Quote:
"The talent in this locker room is not the talent to go win a Super Bowl this year, but this locker room is far more talented than 0-16," McCourty said after Sunday's 28-24 loss to the Steelers. "I'm kind of tired of hearing so many people say, even within the organization, is we don't have the guys or we need more guys. Let's work with the guys we do have and find ways to win games."

Quote:
McCourty added, "the whole season's been frustrating, to finish the way we finished and be on that side of history, very frustrating and I think myself and a lot of the guys in this locker room feel like we had enough talent to do a lot better than what we did.''

There's more in there. Those comments were likely part of why J-Mac was shipped out of town for such a small return. We had to keep up the charade that the old coach knew what he was doing, and a quality starting cornerback was part of the price for that.
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 03:30 PM
Speaking of the talent from last year, Danny Shelton is another guy we could use right now, given the Browns weakness against the run.

Aside from that, there are a lot of holdovers from last year. Just on defense:

Garrett, Ogunjobi, Ogbah, Schobert, Collins, Kirksey, Peppers, some others that I'm forgetting off the top of my head.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 03:35 PM
You mean we didn't replace our entire 53 man roster in one off season?

saywhat

Do tell!
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 03:40 PM
j/c

https://247sports.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/Article/Browns-defense-Ron-Rivera-comments-125946722/

Ron Rivera: Browns defense plays 'with an attitude'

The Cleveland Browns used to be the pushovers of the National Football League. No more - The Dawg Pound now has a lot of bite.

From the opening bell of the 2018 season, the Browns' defense has become one of the most menacing in the league, as the level of young talent they have acquired has begun to jell together: Defensive end Myles Garrett is becoming one of the top pass rushers in the entire league, and he has great compatriots on the defensive line in Emmanuel Ogbah and Larry Ogunjobi. At linebacker, they have Pro Bowlers Joe Schobert and Jamie Collins paired with productive rookie Genard Avery. Speaking of rookies, No. 4-overall draft pick Denzel Ward has quickly become elite at the cornerback position, and he has other stars in the defensive backfield such as safeties Damarious Randall and Jabrill Peppers with him.

With that considered, plus the fact that they play under notoriously aggressive defensive coordinator-turned interim Browns head coach Gregg Williams, it's no wonder why the Browns have forced the second-most turnovers in the league (14 interceptions, 13 forced fumbles) to go with 35 sacks. And that means that the Carolina Panthers will face a steep grade in trying to protect the football and move it up the field.

"They play with an attitude," said Panthers head coach Ron Rivera of the Browns. "Gregg Williams has done a real good job instilling that in his team: I think those guys are very aggressive, very physical. You really see it in terms of their defense, their attack style - Coach Williams is known for that."

As a defensive mind himself, Rivera stated that the Browns not only bring certain types of pressures, but they are also very sound in how they execute their basic coverages. But of course, personnel has a lot to do with the Browns' success on defense as well: Namely Garrett, last year's No. 1-overall pick, whose 11.5 sacks on the season are tied for fourth-most in the league - And remind Rivera of a future Hall of Famer on his team.

"If Myles can play for as long as Julius (Peppers) has, he will be right up there," Rivera stated on a conference call with Cleveland media. "The young man is just becoming a solid football player. Every time you watch him and you see him on tape, you see his athleticism just come through and his explosiveness as a football player."

Rivera also thinks well of both Randall and Jabrill Peppers - Peppers in particular, who Rivera stated the Panthers had liked in 2017, when they drafted Christian McCaffrey with the No. 8-overall pick.

"I like who that group is back there," said Rivera. "I think the future bodes very well for this football team, and this is a football team you have to pay attention to because of the athletes they have."

Although the Browns are coming off of a 29-13 loss to the Houston Texans that took the wind out of their sails somewhat following a two-game winning streak, sacking Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson four times and forcing two fumbles. In the past four weeks, the Panthers have allowed quarterback Cam Newton to be sacked as many times as he was in the entire first half of the year (12), but Newton has yet to lose any of his six fumbles - A stroke of luck that is in major jeopardy, given the way that Murphy's Law has taken hold in the Carolinas.
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 03:57 PM
Not sure where to put this, but it does fit in with the discussion about talent and defense from a year ago to this year, so in this thread it goes:

DVOA is one of the signature metrics that FootballOutsiders uses. You can look at it as representing points, meaning a lower percentage is bad for the offense, but good for the defense. It takes into account game situation and many factors that traditional yards/points measures don't.

2017: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2018/final-2017-dvoa-ratings

Cleveland ranked dead last overall, but the breakdown is interesting. Offense was -20.1% (32nd), Defense 2.0% (16th), Special teams -5.1% (27th). So defense was middle of the pack, special teams were bad, offense was worst in the league but not by much. Probably not all that surprising.

Now for 2018: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff

Cleveland ranked 23rd overall, 21st in weighted DVOA (where recent games are weighted more heavily). This breaks down to 25th in offense, 10th in defense, 32nd in special teams. Again, probably not all that controversial.

Then you look at teams near the bottom. The two worst offenses are Buffalo (-36.4%) and Arizona (-37.4%), both FAR worse than the league-worst Browns offense of 2017 (-20.1%, as noted above).

Indeed, both San Francisco and Arizona have much worse overall DVOAs than the Browns of 2017 (San Francisco makes this bottom two because they are bad in all three phases, whereas the Bills have a very good defense.)
Posted By: Homewood Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 05:17 PM
Agreed and a good read but we still need a few more pieces on D. A fast LB or 2, a run stopping DT, an edge rusher and maybe another CB. We're getting there and have more talent on D now than I can remember.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 05:19 PM
Quote:
IMHO Ward is clearly our best rookie, and 2nd best in the league behind Saquan.

He is already a top player in the league in his position, Baker and Chubb are still far from being on the top.
You realize you opinion on anything is about as solid as a bucket of nickelodeon slime right?
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 05:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Haus
Speaking of the talent from last year, Danny Shelton is another guy we could use right now, given the Browns weakness against the run.

Aside from that, there are a lot of holdovers from last year. Just on defense:

Garrett, Ogunjobi, Ogbah, Schobert, Collins, Kirksey, Peppers, some others that I'm forgetting off the top of my head.


Clearly, you haven't read PitDawg's signature.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 05:51 PM
Yeah, having no QB had nothing to do with anything. Role players make for a winning roster.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 06:09 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Yeah, having no QB had nothing to do with anything. Role players make for a winning roster.


What does this have to do with your signature?
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 06:19 PM
My signature is all about giving a guy a chance with some talent. If he can do well with that talent, fine, we have a coach. If he can't do well with that talent, then move on. He didn't do well so we moved on. I have no dea what your point was to begin with.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 06:29 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
My signature is all about giving a guy a chance with some talent. If he can do well with that talent, fine, we have a coach. If he can't do well with that talent, then move on. He didn't do well so we moved on. I have no dea what your point was to begin with.


How in the hell did you get that from Dorsey's comment? He flat out said this team had "no real players" when he took over. He was flat out wrong and walked it back. You should too. The difference is Dorsey was smart enough to correct his stance.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 06:30 PM
No, he said what he meant then realized how it sounded. lol
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 06:33 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
No, he said what he meant then realized how it sounded. lol


Then why isn't that "corrected quote" not your signature instead? Oh, wait...I know why!
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 06:51 PM
Whats DVOA stand for?
Posted By: Tulsa Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 06:52 PM
Originally Posted By: Bard Dawg
It hits me like PTSD. I have these second-quarter reflex feelings of doom. It is like it is conditioned in after years of being a Browns fan (first presented itself in 1999. Just starting now to enjoy a lead and a win now and then.

There has to be some sort of 12-step program for Browns fans. Might need more like 16 steps for severe cases. . . .


It would be a 12-stride program, we have more ground to cover.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 06:54 PM
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Whats DVOA stand for?


Defense-adjusted Value Over Average
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 06:56 PM
Add to that Peppers SUCKED ... not even sure how u can count him as he started every play in what seemed like the LAKE ...

MG was healthy for almost the entire first game ... then ... he missed multiple games ...

How many game droid Ogbah play last year? ...

Obi doesnt even look like the same player this year ... i’m Sure that had ZERO to do with the natural 2nd year leap many take and had EVERYTHING To do with Hue being a CRAPPY COACH .... rolleyes ...

And QB Pit ... Naaaaaa ... any other coach would have had Kizer in the Pro Bowl last year ... rofl ...

I’ve said it before ... Hue gave the HATERS plenty of ammo ... crap like this just shows there animosity towards Hue .. and why IMO ...

U have about 5 RASTAS when it comes to Hue ... wink ...
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 06:59 PM
Whats that mean ... *L* ...

Good god do i feel stupid ...

Crap ... let me go google in and see what goes into the stat ...

I HATE wanting to learn this stuff ... *L*...

Thanks Memph ... appreciate it ... thumbsup
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 07:00 PM
Quote:
Add to that Peppers SUCKED ... not even sure how u can count him as he started every play in what seemed like the LAKE ...


Who put him there?
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 07:01 PM
Where do u guys go for next gen stats? ...

Is there a single site or u just piece together tweets?
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 07:02 PM
I’d imagine Gregg ... at least i’d Hope so .. *L* ..

I dont really wanna re-hash this ... i stood out of it forever and now its irrelivent ...

I just need to vent on this when i see way way out there stuff ..

Enjoy your convo with Pit ... i may be back tomorrow ... for that part ...

Interested in the stat convo ... thumbsup
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 08:16 PM
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Add to that Peppers SUCKED ... not even sure how u can count him as he started every play in what seemed like the LAKE ...

MG was healthy for almost the entire first game ... then ... he missed multiple games ...

How many game droid Ogbah play last year? ...

Obi doesnt even look like the same player this year ... i’m Sure that had ZERO to do with the natural 2nd year leap many take and had EVERYTHING To do with Hue being a CRAPPY COACH .... rolleyes ...

And QB Pit ... Naaaaaa ... any other coach would have had Kizer in the Pro Bowl last year ... rofl ...

I’ve said it before ... Hue gave the HATERS plenty of ammo ... crap like this just shows there animosity towards Hue .. and why IMO ...

U have about 5 RASTAS when it comes to Hue ... wink ...


Despite all that youth, the defense was still middle-of-the-road. They were led by a defensive coordinator who has always gotten his players to play hard. For all the grief he's gotten, he did win a Super Bowl as defensive coordinator.

Teams have to play with sub-par QB situations all the time. Bills with Josh Allen, Jets with McCown or Darnold, Dolphins with whoever when Tannehill went down, Ravens with Jackson (another rookie), Jaguars with Bortles, Redskins with whoever now that Smith and McCoy are done for the year, Eagles won a Super Bowl last year playing the last games of the regular season and entire playoffs with their backup, Eli is over the hill, Cardinals with Rosen, 49ers with Nick Mullens.

This happens to teams every year. They don't have a franchise QB (or they do and he gets injured), their backups aren't ready, they force rookies into action too soon, and so on. They all seem to win a few games anyway. The most successful organizations-- meaning the Patriots, and to a lesser extent the Steelers, have managed to have winning records during Brady's and Roethlisberger's extended injuries/suspensions.

I have to think that if I were coaching a player with Kizer's physical skills, and I had a line in front of him of Joe Thomas (half a season anyway), Joel Bitonio, JC Tretter, Kevin Zeitler, with Vers filling in at right tackle, I could get more out of him than Hue did. But I digress.

It's Williams's team for now. And he now has the ability to, for example, correct his rookie corner's tackling technique without being reprimanded in the media.
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 09:01 PM
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
I’d imagine Gregg ... at least i’d Hope so .. *L* ..

I dont really wanna re-hash this ... i stood out of it forever and now its irrelivent ...

I just need to vent on this when i see way way out there stuff ..

Enjoy your convo with Pit ... i may be back tomorrow ... for that part ...

Interested in the stat convo ... thumbsup


FootballOutsiders has long been a good one.

FootballCommentary is another. I seem to remember they had a good 4th down model-- one of a dozen or more different game models or analytics approaches that come from different angles but always have the same basic conclusion: NFL coaches are the biggest cowards ever on 4th down.

Advanced NFL Stats used to be another, though I think they changed their name or merged with someone. Search results suggest it's Advanced NFL Analytics now.

ESPN and 538 have some good stuff occasionally. There are others as well. Sometimes you can pull up stuff on Google. Maybe it's good, maybe it's not. That's for you to let us know. smile
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 09:12 PM
I really dont wanna do this ... i feel obligated to point a few things out ..

- go look at all the teams u mentioned ... u will find one or both of these to be true when comparing them to us last year ...

1. NONE of the QB’s those teams went to is near as BAD or INEXPERIENCED as our entire room was last year ...

2. They had WAY MORE TALENT ... OK .. some had way more .. some had more ... some may have even been as inept as ours but they had way more talent around them ... see the Rats for example .. how could u use therm with a straight face dawg ... u play poker ... wink ...

How can u put the rats in the same sentance as us TALENT WISE last year ...

AGAIN ... like cfr did ... u want to boil it down to ONE THING .. U guys are gonna make me come up with a new saying along the lines of STATS ARE FOR LOSERS ... the way u guys are framing “arguments” within a debate is not good ...

U wanna boil this down to ...

Our QB sucked but other teams had PROBLEMS at the qb position yet won anyhow therefore HUE sucks even more ... naaa ... not good dawg ....

Those teams had WAY MORE EXPERIENCED TALENT around said QB ... and go ahead and tell me who off that list is NOT BETTER THAN KIZER, KESSLER or HOGAN ... and thats a pretty bad list to start with ... theres some u may have me on ... *L* ...

Lamar Jackson if he couldnt run ... but once u take his legs into account ... its a NO BRAINER ... u could prolly put Vers at QB for the rats this year and they’d of won a few games ... i’m Betting he’s a better QB than RT ... but i could be wrong ... HI VERS ... wink ...

OK .. please only reply to my stat questions ... ty ... *LOL* ... ya, like thats gonna work ...

And i thought Hue handled Kizer HORRIBLY last year ... in that he benched him during a game or two and then let Hogan start one ... Hue did not handle him well IMO ... problem is .. HE HAD NUTTIN ELSE ...

Now i’m Gonna here from some menZa about Kessler beating the colts last week ... ya .. Cody did a hell of a job playing D last week ... *LOL* ...
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 09:12 PM
There's also ProFootballFocus, a site that has gone mainstream in the last year but has had a lot of good info on the site for many years. Some of that is analytics, some of it is more old-fashioned grading, so you get some of both there (a good thing if you ask me.)
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 09:14 PM
Ty sir ...

I will let u know when i find good stuff ...

I want to prepare and be ready for DFS next season ... STATS will play an integral part of my research week to week ...

Can u believe i just said that ... wink ...
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 09:21 PM
It's a good idea. The reality is we don't do this for a living (or I don't anyway!), I don't have time to watch every team play every game. It's ok to rely on stats and other people's interpretation sometimes.. heck, even the people in charge (NFL GMs and the like) are relying on stats/analytics more and more.

Get a good understanding of it all and it should only help you in DFS..
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 09:28 PM
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
I really dont wanna do this ... i feel obligated to point a few things out ..

- go look at all the teams u mentioned ... u will find one or both of these to be true when comparing them to us last year ...

1. NONE of the QB’s those teams went to is near as BAD or INEXPERIENCED as our entire room was last year ...

2. They had WAY MORE TALENT ... OK .. some had way more .. some had more ... some may have even been as inept as ours but they had way more talent around them ... see the Rats for example .. how could u use therm with a straight face dawg ... u play poker ... wink ...

How can u put the rats in the same sentance as us TALENT WISE last year ...

AGAIN ... like cfr did ... u want to boil it down to ONE THING .. U guys are gonna make me come up with a new saying along the lines of STATS ARE FOR LOSERS ... the way u guys are framing “arguments” within a debate is not good ...

U wanna boil this down to ...

Our QB sucked but other teams had PROBLEMS at the qb position yet won anyhow therefore HUE sucks even more ... naaa ... not good dawg ....

Those teams had WAY MORE EXPERIENCED TALENT around said QB ... and go ahead and tell me who off that list is NOT BETTER THAN KIZER, KESSLER or HOGAN ... and thats a pretty bad list to start with ... theres some u may have me on ... *L* ...

Lamar Jackson if he couldnt run ... but once u take his legs into account ... its a NO BRAINER ... u could prolly put Vers at QB for the rats this year and they’d of won a few games ... i’m Betting he’s a better QB than RT ... but i could be wrong ... HI VERS ... wink ...

OK .. please only reply to my stat questions ... ty ... *LOL* ... ya, like thats gonna work ...

And i thought Hue handled Kizer HORRIBLY last year ... in that he benched him during a game or two and then let Hogan start one ... Hue did not handle him well IMO ... problem is .. HE HAD NUTTIN ELSE ...

Now i’m Gonna here from some menZa about Kessler beating the colts last week ... ya .. Cody did a hell of a job playing D last week ... *LOL* ...


Hue had a better qb room with McCown RGIII and only managed to win 1 game. Sorry the talent excuse is poor. There have been expansion teams with less talent than we had and managed to win more than 1 game in two years.
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 09:35 PM
Good points.

Water under the bridge at this point though. It's one of the things we're probably never going to agree on here.. at least not anytime soon.

Give it another 10-12 days and we'll do round whatever on Hue before the Browns/Bengals rematch.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 09:45 PM
What a joke that is and u know it ...

RG3 was healthy for what ... the first game and last two ... and he won 1 .. so if we had him we’d of won 33% of our games if u extrapolate that out ...

And how many games was McCown healthy for? ...

And how has RG3 done since leaving .. who did this QB ROOM CHANGING QB play for last year ... wink ...

Whats McCowns record in NY ... WITH MUCH MORE TALENT THAN WE HAD 2 YEARS AGO .. ...

Keep swinging boys ... thumbsup
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 10:09 PM
He didn't have a QB, oh well. That's life for a lot of NFL teams.

None of them had as bad of a 32 or 40 game stretch as he did. Not even the worst expansion team, or completely out-matched teams in the era before free agency.

We've done this many times before though. He's one of the few coaches who has ever had to be stripped of responsibilities on his own side of the ball because he was so clueless. Maybe Baker will be more forthcoming in time, or write a book, or something along those lines. I have a feeling we haven't heard the last of it.
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 10:09 PM
Keep swinging bro, come on. These are just warmup swings. Wait until I tell you how I really feel.. oh hell.

This guy was the worst professional head coach I have ever seen, in any sport. He could have been fired for fraud, for masquerading as a head coach. Ditto for the geniuses at the search firm that recommended him.

The only problem is the thief, as you call him, doesn't really deserve the money either. I say give it to the truckers. Whatever they got in that settlement, double it.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/06/18 11:17 PM
j/c:

This is a great thread about the Brown's defense. Hope the board is enjoying all this Pure Football talk.
Posted By: kwhip Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 09:31 AM
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Ty sir ...

I will let u know when i find good stuff ...

I want to prepare and be ready for DFS next season ... STATS will play an integral part of my research week to week ...

Can u believe i just said that ... wink ...


What does DFS mean?
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 11:15 AM
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Quote:
IMHO Ward is clearly our best rookie, and 2nd best in the league behind Saquan.

He is already a top player in the league in his position, Baker and Chubb are still far from being on the top.
You realize you opinion on anything is about as solid as a bucket of nickelodeon slime right?



Yet I'm seldon wrong about this stuff....

Also you clearly have reading comprehension problems... Ward is clearly better in his position right now than any other rookie in the roster.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 12:12 PM
Daily Fantasy Sports ....
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 12:18 PM
Originally Posted By: willitevachange

Hue had a better qb room with McCown RGIII and only managed to win 1 game. Sorry the talent excuse is poor. There have been expansion teams with less talent than we had and managed to win more than 1 game in two years.


Why not take the "Hue is the worst HC in the history of Sports" discussion elsewhere? It ruins any thread about anything else.

My 2 cents - I think you can come down either side easily enough. i think there have been teams with less talent that won more - I also think the first year the FO had no desire to put a winning product on the field. As for QB's - we won 5 games with Thaddeus Lewis - Colt McCoy & Brandon Weeden ... Hard for anyone to say Weeden is a better QB than anyone, ever. Colt had huge limitations - he wasn't as gun shy as Kessler, but he wasn't really better than Kessler either imo.

Personally having supported the guy through two awful seasons and seeing the change once he left - I am confident in saying Hue was an awful HC. He also had deep issues with multiple versions of the FO/Staff ... at some point you have to consider the common denominator.

That's my 2 cents and I don't care if you love Hue or hate Hue. It's not worth debating or arguing over. He's gone.
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 12:35 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: willitevachange

Hue had a better qb room with McCown RGIII and only managed to win 1 game. Sorry the talent excuse is poor. There have been expansion teams with less talent than we had and managed to win more than 1 game in two years.


Why not take the "Hue is the worst HC in the history of Sports" discussion elsewhere? It ruins any thread about anything else.

My 2 cents - I think you can come down either side easily enough. i think there have been teams with less talent that won more - I also think the first year the FO had no desire to put a winning product on the field. As for QB's - we won 5 games with Thaddeus Lewis - Colt McCoy & Brandon Weeden ... Hard for anyone to say Weeden is a better QB than anyone, ever. Colt had huge limitations - he wasn't as gun shy as Kessler, but he wasn't really better than Kessler either imo.

Personally having supported the guy through two awful seasons and seeing the change once he left - I am confident in saying Hue was an awful HC. He also had deep issues with multiple versions of the FO/Staff ... at some point you have to consider the common denominator.

That's my 2 cents and I don't care if you love Hue or hate Hue. It's not worth debating or arguing over. He's gone.


Yes its worth debating,its worth debating WHY WITH ALL THE EVIDENCE that Hue was a bad coach, we still had people here defending the guy ad nausea... and then pretending it was nothing.

Its always like that, in the end by some strange reasons the few guys who get some of the stuff right (Like Coleman, Gilbert being busts, Haden being over rated), that calling 60% pass plays with a bad pass O and a rookie is stupid, etc, etc end up being criticized.

Apologies are in order, and some kind of Humility would be appreciated, instead we get the usual arrogance.

Now we are entering an era where saying anything that isn't praising Baker Mayfield will get you crucified in this forum...
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 02:34 PM
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
What a joke that is and u know it ...

RG3 was healthy for what ... the first game and last two ... and he won 1 .. so if we had him we’d of won 33% of our games if u extrapolate that out ...

And how many games was McCown healthy for? ...

And how has RG3 done since leaving .. who did this QB ROOM CHANGING QB play for last year ... wink ...

Whats McCowns record in NY ... WITH MUCH MORE TALENT THAN WE HAD 2 YEARS AGO .. ...

Keep swinging boys ... thumbsup
Jacksonville won a game with Kessler. His first start for them. No excuse.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 02:35 PM
Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Quote:
IMHO Ward is clearly our best rookie, and 2nd best in the league behind Saquan.

He is already a top player in the league in his position, Baker and Chubb are still far from being on the top.
You realize you opinion on anything is about as solid as a bucket of nickelodeon slime right?



Yet I'm seldon wrong about this stuff....

Also you clearly have reading comprehension problems... Ward is clearly better in his position right now than any other rookie in the roster.
how's bakers arm? Still a noodle? Your always wrong. Even if your right.
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 02:56 PM
Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Quote:
IMHO Ward is clearly our best rookie, and 2nd best in the league behind Saquan.

He is already a top player in the league in his position, Baker and Chubb are still far from being on the top.
You realize you opinion on anything is about as solid as a bucket of nickelodeon slime right?



Yet I'm seldon wrong about this stuff....

Also you clearly have reading comprehension problems... Ward is clearly better in his position right now than any other rookie in the roster.

What Ward has done is great but I'd have to say it's actually Chubb performing the best among the rookies at their respective positions. Chubb is a really good player, and has an unusual combination of speed, power, and elusiveness. Hard guy to bring down.

That's not to take anything away from Ward or Mayfield for that matter. It's a good debate for the Browns to have..
Posted By: Haus Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 03:02 PM
https://www.cleveland.com/expo/sports/er...-more-stri.html

Quote:
Gregg Williams wants more strip-sacks from Myles Garrett, Larry Ogunjobi might play and more things we learned Thursday

BEREA, Ohio -- As the Browns prepare to face the 6-6 Panthers at First Energy Stadium, Gregg Williams and offensive coordinator Freddie addressed a number of topics on Thursday, ranging from Myles Garrett's big-play production to whether Kitchens has given any thought to staying on as offensive coordinator if Bruce Arians gets the head coaching job.

Cornerback Denzel Ward sat out for the second straight day with his concussion, and Duke Johnson was absent for the second straight day for a personal reason.

But defensive tackle Larry Ogunjobi returned to action and might try to play with what could be a torn biceps.

For the Panthers, Cam Newton was limited for the second straight day with his right shoulder, but has said he intends to play.

Here's what you need to know.

1. Williams wants more strip-sacks from Myles Garrett


Garrett is tied for fourth in the NFL with 11.5 sacks and is on pace to break Bill Glass' club record of 14.5 in 1965, but Williams would like to see the 2017 No. 1 pick wreak more havoc in the final quarter of the season.

"We need to take the next step with that,'' said Williams. "It's not that he's not trying right now. It just it's a little bit different than some of the position areas he is playing in as opposed to some of the other guys."

Williams cited the game-changing ability of Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald, who has a league-high 16.5 sacks, four forced fumbles and two recoveries. Garrett is not far behind, with three forced fumbles.

"Those are the types of things that you want those particular skillset kind of guys to do, and those are point-producing plays,'' said Williams.

Specifically, he wants more strip-sacks.

"I think he's very close,'' he said. "One of the things that we have emphasized all of the time no matter what position player it is, when you're in the pocket, we say a sack is great, but it's not perfect until the ball is out. We want a sack and a caused fumble. Those are the things we're looking at because the quarterback, it's the toughest to secure the ball when you're in pocket and have to block everybody out and go ahead and throw the football.

"We want more production that way, and he is doing a really good job of crushing and getting to the pocket and continuing to get those sack productions things. We just have to get the ball out."

2. Larry Ogunjobi still wants to play


Ogunjobi admitted Thursday that he might try to play with what could be a torn biceps suffered in the Texans game. He's awaiting a second opinion from orthopedist Dr. James Andrews, who's reviewing the MRI results, but Ogunjobi indicated it could be torn.

"If it's torn, it's one of those things where you've just got to kind of play with it,'' said Ogunjobi, who returned to practice on Thursday on a limited basis.

So he can play if it's partially torn?

"Even if it's fully torn,'' he said. "I've done my research. The biggest thing is just finishing the second opinion and making sure everything's straight and just really going from there and it's really just how I feel.''

Ogunjobi said it could come down to a gametime decision.

"Right now, we're just trying to progress and trying to make sure everything is solid before we make any like serious decisions,'' he said. "I was able to go through the practice, felt well, nothing was hurting too bad, so we're just playing it by ear. We'll see how (Friday) goes.''

Williams said "he was clamoring to me to make sure I saw that sack that he got at the end of practice. He's a tough dude now, but he had a pretty good day."

There's more in there but those are the bits about the defense.

I don't think Ogunjobi playing with a torn biceps is a good idea (if that's what it is).
Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 04:50 PM
Originally Posted By: Haus

I don't think Ogunjobi playing with a torn biceps is a good idea (if that's what it is).
Agreed! The risk isn't worth the reward.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 06:10 PM
Originally Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain
Originally Posted By: Haus

I don't think Ogunjobi playing with a torn biceps is a good idea (if that's what it is).
Agreed! The risk isn't worth the reward.


I think it depends on the size and location of the tear.
Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 06:43 PM
Maybe, but it was injured doing something within the game, which means he risks increasing the tear by repeating the action in future games. It's best to let the tear heal and scar, then work the it back into playing shape.

If we were in the midst of a playoff run, the risk/reward equation changes, but with the team W8ing 4 Nxt Yr Again, the risk is too high.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 06:57 PM
Did u stay at a holiday inn express last night .... *L* ...

J/k bro ... thumbsup
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 07:32 PM
Posted By: mac Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/07/18 08:35 PM
rofl thumbsup
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/12/18 07:18 PM


This was not something I ever expected to see. It delights me.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/13/18 02:09 PM
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/13/18 11:55 PM
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/13/18 11:58 PM
Side note:

Larry Ogunjobi is playing with a torn biceps? I know nothing about anatomy or medicine or anything related to those two things. How is this possible? It seems like this would be incredibly painful and/or impossible.
Posted By: Tulsa Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/14/18 12:30 AM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Side note:

Larry Ogunjobi is playing with a torn biceps? I know nothing about anatomy or medicine or anything related to those two things. How is this possible? It seems like this would be incredibly painful and/or impossible.


If the diagnosis starts with “torn”, I’m checking out right there.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/14/18 12:36 AM
Larry Ogunjobi playing with torn biceps, and through the pain


BEREA — Interim coach Gregg Williams wasn’t kidding when he raved last week about defensive tackle Larry Ogunjobi’s toughness.

Ogunjobi played 51 snaps (69 percent) Sunday in the 26-20 win over the Panthers with a torn left biceps. He said Wednesday it’s fully torn.

The painful injury didn’t stop him from making four tackles, and he plans to play the rest of the season.

“Some days are better than others, but it’s kinda one of those things,” he said of the pain, adding it was worse after the game. “During the game you’ve got a lot of adrenalin and stuff going, so you don’t really feel it too much. It’s just certain positions that if I’m in I feel like it might be compromising. But now that I know what positions not to be in, I think I can work around it.”

He tore the muscle in the second quarter of a loss to the Texans on Dec. 2. He beat the offensive lineman, got into the backfield and dived to tackle running back Lamar Miller but missed.

“I just fell on it and it kind of …” said Ogunjobi, who has 42 tackles and 4.5 sacks.

He returned to finish the quarter but sat out the second half. He isn’t certain he’ll have surgery after the season, even though that’s the only way the muscle will reattach.

“It’s one of the things where sometimes surgery can be more a detriment to it than helpful,” he said.

He said the tear is at the top of the biceps near the shoulder and he could play the rest of his career without surgery.

“It’s a weird injury,” he said. “It’s one of those things that if you wanted to do something to it, that would be the one you wanted to do.”

He said it initially took away strength but he’s been rehabbing and is even able to bench press.

“I feel progressively stronger as we go through the week,” he said. “So it’s just one of those things you’ve got to monitor throughout the week and just stay on top of it.”

https://www.brownszone.com/2018/12/12/no...rough-the-pain/
Posted By: FATE Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/14/18 08:27 AM

This team is embracing a warrior mentality down the stretch... haven't seen that in a few decades.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/14/18 09:07 AM
I haven't seen that mentality EVER. If we would win this game, we will have some BIG TIME mojo going
Posted By: CapCity Dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/14/18 01:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Tulsa
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Side note:

Larry Ogunjobi is playing with a torn biceps? I know nothing about anatomy or medicine or anything related to those two things. How is this possible? It seems like this would be incredibly painful and/or impossible.


If the diagnosis starts with “torn”, I’m checking out right there.


This. I cannot even imagine otherwise.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/14/18 04:08 PM
Biceps tear is a weird injury. A buddy of mine had the same injury (torn at the top of the muscle... may or may not have been a clean tear). There's pain/discomfort, and some loss of function, but beyond that it's not that big a deal. You can elect to have surgery to reattach, or you can elect not to. IIRC, you really don't feel the effects of this injury, either way, until you're much older.
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/14/18 08:48 PM
and ogbah has been playing with a bad ankle all year too
Posted By: eotab Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/15/18 08:11 PM
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg
Larry Ogunjobi playing with torn biceps, and through the pain


BEREA — Interim coach Gregg Williams wasn’t kidding when he raved last week about defensive tackle Larry Ogunjobi’s toughness.

Ogunjobi played 51 snaps (69 percent) Sunday in the 26-20 win over the Panthers with a torn left biceps. He said Wednesday it’s fully torn.

The painful injury didn’t stop him from making four tackles, and he plans to play the rest of the season.

“Some days are better than others, but it’s kinda one of those things,” he said of the pain, adding it was worse after the game. “During the game you’ve got a lot of adrenalin and stuff going, so you don’t really feel it too much. It’s just certain positions that if I’m in I feel like it might be compromising. But now that I know what positions not to be in, I think I can work around it.”

He tore the muscle in the second quarter of a loss to the Texans on Dec. 2. He beat the offensive lineman, got into the backfield and dived to tackle running back Lamar Miller but missed.

“I just fell on it and it kind of …” said Ogunjobi, who has 42 tackles and 4.5 sacks.

He returned to finish the quarter but sat out the second half. He isn’t certain he’ll have surgery after the season, even though that’s the only way the muscle will reattach.

“It’s one of the things where sometimes surgery can be more a detriment to it than helpful,” he said.

He said the tear is at the top of the biceps near the shoulder and he could play the rest of his career without surgery.

“It’s a weird injury,” he said. “It’s one of those things that if you wanted to do something to it, that would be the one you wanted to do.”

He said it initially took away strength but he’s been rehabbing and is even able to bench press.

“I feel progressively stronger as we go through the week,” he said. “So it’s just one of those things you’ve got to monitor throughout the week and just stay on top of it.”

https://www.brownszone.com/2018/12/12/no...rough-the-pain/


You get what we call a POPEYE arm from it, meaning a Knot of a muscle appears at the Bicep area that we know it as on the arm. This is from it rolling up I guess.

As long as he is playing with Doctors opinions involved and not just macho stuff. Then I guess its ok. Its different when you are talking about a Tendon ripping from the bone. This is not the case.

I wish him well and hope he gets his awesome game back up and running.

He is a "FOOTBALL PLAYER" regardless of what Dorsey thinks or retracts...lol laugh
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/17/18 06:46 PM
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/17/18 08:13 PM
Where do u get this stuff from? ... thanks BTW ... I LOVE what u post ... thanks for that ...

Any chance u can provide a link ... just would like one so i can go check the place out .. *L* ..

Seriously though .. a link would be great if possible ...

Thank u sir ... thumbsup
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/17/18 08:22 PM
j/c...

Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/17/18 08:28 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



#NoRealPlayers
#JustLookAtPitsSig
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/17/18 08:35 PM
Wah. Stalker.

rofl

Sounds like you need to e mail Dorsey about it.

wink

Quit whining.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/17/18 09:07 PM
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Where do u get this stuff from?


Twitter.com
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 12/20/18 12:46 PM
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 01/30/19 11:21 PM
Great read on Larry Ogunjobi:

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/sports/g6...-film-room.html
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 01/31/19 12:00 AM
Nice. Thanks for sharing. We're so close to having an elite D.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 01/31/19 02:29 AM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15


Love Ogunjobi. The best part of his great plays is the mean mug of the camera after.
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 01/31/19 03:25 AM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: cfrs15


Love Ogunjobi. The best part of his great plays is the mean mug of the camera after.


thumbsup


"I'm a bad, bad man. "
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 01/31/19 12:34 PM
It will be a wonderful thing to have another bad ass in the middle of the defensive line.

I think we have 11 picks. It wouldn't bother ne if we only drafted 5-6 players. Maybe use 3 picks to trade up and trade a few to use next year.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 01/31/19 05:08 PM
I think we might see Dorsey trade at least one or two of the mid round picks for current NFL players. It's something we've seen before.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 01/31/19 05:51 PM
That would work too. We are getting to the point where 11 rookies won't be making the team. We already have some guys from last years class he seems to like.

Use some to trade for a middling vet, trade up in the draft, and or trade some for a pick next year. We could probably trade two 5th rounders this year for a 4th rounder next.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 06/28/19 03:43 PM
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 06/28/19 11:10 PM
I tend to be one of Schoberts harshest critics on this board, but to be fair... Marshawn Lynch is not an easy back to take down. And I dont' recall a lot of missed tackles from Joe. I could be wrong though.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 07/16/19 02:21 PM
j/c:



14. CLEVELAND BROWNS

The Browns have the potential to end up a lot higher on this list when all is said and done. We’re particularly excited to see what Myles Garrett and Larry Ogunjobi are capable of when not forced to play every single snap. Garrett earned an 80.2 run-defense grade last season while Ogunjobi was at 73.0.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 07/17/19 04:18 PM


3. CLEVELAND BROWNS
One of the biggest movers this offseason. Olivier Vernon and Sheldon Richardson are easy plug-and-play options who earned pass-rushing grades of 86.0 and 65.8 respectively last season.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 07/17/19 04:32 PM


What Larry Ogunjobi can do to become elite for the 2019 Cleveland Browns -- Film Room
By Jake Burns

https://expo.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-2...-film-room.html
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 07/19/19 03:22 PM
Posted By: guard dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 07/20/19 08:45 PM
Jake Burns once again does an excellent job examining the techniques and schemes that we should expect to be installed on the Browns' D-line. Taking advantage of the skills our players already have in their arsenals. Very exciting.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 07/21/19 09:50 AM
Burns is awesome for me as well ... really breaks it down in simple terms. Thanks
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 07/30/19 06:14 PM
Cleveland Browns training camp depth chart: How they are lining up on defense
By Jake Burns,

https://expo.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-2...on-defense.html

BEREA, Ohio -- Through the first five days of Cleveland Browns training camp, the defense has been better than the offense, flying around and looking comfortable within the scheme that Steve Wilks is implementing.

The NFL is more about teaching the scheme than teaching position. Players have to know multiple positions because of restrictions in personnel numbers.

With the defense, alignments can change snap to snap, and the players will move around the field pre-snap to post-snap.

You will see 12 total listed positions listed below, but between the nickel (or fifth) defensive back and SAM (strong-side) linebacker, one will be off the field depending on how the coaches want to match up against the offense.

This grouping is the best projection we can come up with based on first, second, and third team and where the Browns line the players up most often.:


The defense returns most of its starters, and the front four of the group will anchor the unit.

Myles Garrett and Olivier Vernon will be aligning all over the front and will aim to be unpredictable. With questions along the interior, the depth can be hard to peg down after Larry Ogunjobi and Sheldon Richardson.

The scheme will call for two linebackers in the 4-2-5 (4 defensive linemen, 2 linebackers, 5 defensive backs), but when they want a third linebacker they will use Adarius Taylor as the SAM.

The secondary has a variety of talent and they will use both cornerbacks and safeties in the slot depending on the situation.

This group's depth chart will largely stay the same, but there are some key battles to be settled in preseason -- especially at cornerback.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 07/30/19 07:09 PM
Thanks for posting the depth chart here too. As for the CB position, is Gaines our best bet to cover the slot? That’s going to dictate where other players may fall
Posted By: guard dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/03/19 03:17 PM
J/C

I like to shed light on any information available about the defense. I'm fairly confident that the offense will step up. The development of the defense will have a lot to say about winning the division and going on a playoff run.

So... this.

Browns training camp defensive report: Defense gets turnover happy and Mack Wilson has a good day
Updated Aug 2, 4:52 PM; Posted Aug 2, 3:56 PM
Browns linebacker Mack Wilson stretches. (John Kuntz, cleveland.com)
cleveland.com

Browns linebacker Mack Wilson stretches. (John Kuntz, cleveland.com)

16
63 shares
By Dan Labbe, cleveland.com

BEREA, Ohio -- The Browns defense hasn’t had a particularly big turnover day yet in training camp. They came in spots -- a fumble here or there and the occasional interception or two -- but the ball hasn’t gone the other way often.

That changed on Friday, even if it wasn’t the first-team defense doing the damage.

Phillip Gaines came up with the first one of the day off of Drew Stanton. Tigie Sankoh got the next one off of David Blough. Then, rookie Mack Wilson made a great play on a throw from Garrett Gilbert, collecting the pick and getting up off the ground to return it for a score.



The Browns defense thrived on turnovers in 2018. They were second in the NFL with 31 takeaways and had nine games with two or more takeaways and took the ball away three or more times in three games.

“That’s what you play defense for, to take the ball and give it back to the offense,” rookie safety Sheldrick Redwine said. “That’s a heavy emphasis, whenever the ball’s on the ground, somebody has to scoop it up, whenever you get a turnover, make sure you score with it.”

High turnover numbers are hard to duplicate year-to-year, but the ability to force them matters. The Browns’ defense might not have 30-plus in them again, but you can’t survive on that side of the ball without forcing a few.

Here are some more defensive observations.

* Wilson had a good day overall. Along with the interception, he broke into the backfield on a run play and registered a tackle for loss. He also got in on breaking up a screen pass with Daniel Ekuale.

* T.J. Carrie was back with the first team and Greedy Williams spent time with the second team. The pieces are still moving around at cornerback.

* The defense had a nice day overall in run drills. Joe Schobert opened one period with a stop in the backfield and Denzel Ward got in and made a tackle on another play. Devaroe Lawrence stuffed a play, too, and Sione Takitaki made a tackle for loss.


* Speaking of Lawrence, he’s done good things lately. Freddie Kitchens had praise for Lawrence after practice.

“Every time that ball snapped, he was getting after it,” Kitchens said.

* The secondary made some nice plays during a red zone period. Donnie Lewis Jr., a seventh-round pick in April, broke up a pass intended for Damon Sheehy-Guiseppi. T.J. Carrie broke up a ball intended for Derrick Willies. Christian Kirksey chipped in from the linebacker spot to break up a pass headed Odell Beckham Jr.’s way.

I'm intrigued whenever any of the interior d-line depth players get a mention. Nice to hear that Lawrence is making plays. Looks like these guys will have to play for us so I'm hanging onto the slightest news of progress...
Posted By: eotab Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/03/19 03:22 PM
Just who is "TAYLOR" SAM???

I always thought it would be Avery or King playing SAM

Posted By: guard dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/03/19 03:31 PM
Another report on the defense.

Browns Rookie Progress Report: Williams, Takitaki & Wilson
ByMAC ROBINSON Aug 2, 9:00 AM
4

(Photo: Ken Blaze, USA TODAY Sports)
While eyes have been drawn toward the offense all offseason long, with additions like wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. and running back Kareem Hunt, the defense has quietly had some of the biggest additions, like defensive tackle Sheldon Richardson and edge rusher Olivier Vernon.

Not only did the team add great veterans like Richardson and Vernon, but they also accompanied them with a stellar rookie crop of defenders as well. So far, cornerback Greedy Williams has been tasked with covering the star receiver in Beckham Jr., and to his credit, Williams has held his own so far.

Browns defensive coordinator Steve Wilks spoke on the matchup following Thursday's practice, "I think he is doing a great job. I think he is learning. He is growing. He needs to learn how to be consistent each and every day in how he practices. I am excited about what he is doing and where he is going."


Wilks later added, "He has good change of direction. He plays with good body lean. He is fast. He can run with Odell and mostly all the receivers. What I am impressed with him the last couple days is he is stepping up in the run game and making tackles.”

In addition to Williams, rookie linebackers Sione Takitaki and Mack Wilson have also turned heads so far this training camp.

Takitaki has been a physical player throughout training camp but is progressing according to Wilks. While Wilks likes the physicality of the BYU rookie, there are improvements Takitaki can make still according to his defensive coordinator, "He is physical. He is still a rookie. He is still making mistakes. Those are things that he has to make sure that he corrects, but I like his physicality."

Wilks added about where Takitaki can improve, "Really out in space. Everybody needs to do a much better job of really taking the grass. I tell guys all the time when you think you are in position to make a tackle, take one more step. We have thrown a lot at these really in somewhat seven practices. When you look at what we are doing, I think he is swimming a little bit, but he will get it.”


When it comes to Wilson, he has the athleticism that you hope to see in the modern NFL, at least according to Wilks.

Wilks said about Wilson, “I love his athleticism. When you look at him out in space, he plays well, good change of direction. When you look at the matchups throughout this league, a lot of times you do not really have safeties that can cover these big tight ends so you need a linebacker that can run. That is the mode that we have right now. He fits that mode right there being able to cover a tight end as well.”

As the preseason unfolds, the rookies will certainly be an area of the team to watch.

Mac Reacts

As training camp has gone on, the rookies are not easy to find on the field, and that isn't a bad thing. I had expected a rookie learning curve while they got adjusted to the NFL speed and play.

Williams has especially stood out to me so far. His natural ball skills are definitely at a high level, but, as Wilks mentioned, he needs to work on his consistency on the field. While many took issue with Williams' tackling pre-draft, he has actually shown the willingness to step up in the run game and has worked with special teams as well. The learning curve is there, but it isn't as steep as I expected. Once he gets used to the NFL speed, Williams has a chance to be a special player.


4
COMMENTS
For the linebackers, I've had my eye on Takitaki this camp and really am impressed by what I've seen so far. I love the physicality and quickness, but what I've really taken note of from the rookie is the development of temperament as camp continues. Being undisciplined and physical doesn't help in the NFL, but directed and disciplined physicality? That is a skill in today's NFL.


Mac Robinson
@MacRobinsonCLE
Rookie LB Sione Takitaki showing his quickness to the hole, stopping the run at the line of scrimmage. #Browns

15
11:07 AM - Aug 1, 2019 · Cleveland Browns Training Facility
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I haven't seen as much of Wilson so far this camp, but from what I have seen, he seems like his athleticism, while nothing over the top like some would hope, is more than enough to play in the NFL. He will likely have a role on special teams, but also as the all-important coverage backer. Given the NFL trend of tight ends being glorified receivers, Wilson and his development will be one to be watched as the season continues.

I've got this impression in my head that TakiTaki's strengths are Wilson's weakness and vice versa. If they continue to grow in their respective areas of weakness we'll have two very good young LBs. As it is, I think both can see the field this year. 44 should get some backup Mike reps and 51 could get some work covering TEs.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/03/19 03:34 PM
Adarius Taylor... and it is interesting to see only a single name listed at SAM.
Posted By: guard dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/03/19 03:37 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
Just who is "TAYLOR" SAM???

I always thought it would be Avery or King playing SAM



Adarius Taylor, 5 year pro experience. We signed him from Tampa Bay this offseason. Had somewhat of a breakout year when one of the starting LBs for TB got hurt. Always been a special teams standout who provides LB depth.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/03/19 03:50 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
Just who is "TAYLOR" SAM???

I always thought it would be Avery or King playing SAM



Avery is strictly an edge rusher. I don’t know who King is.

Don’t worry about the third linebacker, we won’t be using him much. Wilks’ defense in Arizona played sets with less than three linebackers 86% of the time last year.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/03/19 06:49 PM
I'm a bit concerned about the defense. Mainly because I'm not sure that we got better at stopping the run this off-season and because after researching Wilks, I came away less than impressed. He took a very good defense in Arizona and switched it from a 3-4 to a 4-3 and the defense got a lot worse in just one year. I also don't like that he played more zone than any DC in the league when he was in Carolina.

I am not proclaiming he will be awful, but I do have some trepidation about him and this defense. Also, I am not as sold on Vernon as I was originally. He was kind of disappointing in New York. And I really don't think we did enough at SS. I would rather have Tre Boston than the guys we acquired. He just signed for peanuts this past week.

Just throwing some things out there. I'm not saying we will suck. I just think there are some concerns. Hopefully, they will be answered in a positive manner.
Posted By: guard dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/03/19 07:40 PM
As I've posted before I don't think these concerns are invalid. They are questions that deserve answers. I think I prioritize some of the issues you raise differently. Although stopping the run is at the center of my doubt.

Admittedly, some could say that I'm overstating the depth issue of the DL. It will be answered by the performance of that unit on the field. I think that applies to the issues you raise also. Can't get definitive answers until we see the on-field performance.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/03/19 11:24 PM
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/03/19 11:27 PM
Orange and Brown Scrimmage: How the 4-2-5 alignment will help the defense improve
By Jake Burns

https://expo.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-2...se-improve.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns enter the 2019 preseason having completely overhauled a defense and a defensive coaching staff that needed a new identity.

Gone is Gregg Williams, and his propensity to play three linebackers. The Browns led the NFL in three linebacker usage at 66 percent, and when you consider how often opposing offenses have three or more receivers on the field, the old 4-3 scheme seems even more outdated.

With the hire of Steve Wilks, the Browns have committed to the idea of matching athletes across the field with four defensive linemen, two linebackers and five defensive backs. It removes one of the 4-3's slower athletes for a fifth defensive back.

Wilks touched on the scheme and his reasoning following practice earlier this week in Berea. "What we have to understand first of all is where the game is now a days. They are putting more speed on the field. You want to make sure that you are able to match that speed."

Wilks' philosophy is simple: if the offense is going to play faster players on the perimeter, he has to match that speed.

"That is the reason why we go with that look. A safety, as we consider to be a slash-linebacker that can blend in the box and stop the run but also athletic enough right there to be able to play in space."

We got our first look at the 4-2-5 scheme from a wide angle at the Orange and Brown scrimmage, but before we get to how it is applied, let's learn how the scheme looks on paper.



WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE
The biggest position you will need to get comfortable hearing is the nickel cornerback. That's the replacement for the missing linebacker, and he figures to be on the field on nearly every down.

There will only be two linebackers on the field a majority of the snaps in the Mike and Will position. When defenses bring on more tight ends and fullback, the defensive scheme still has the ability to match by taking the nickel out and replacing him with a Sam linebacker for a traditional three-linebacker look.

Here is what the base defense will look like with two deep safeties.


The base will have the nickel covering the slot and two deep safeties able to play any of the traditional coverage looks. This will be a normal pre-snap look in pass situations.

The nickel and weak side corner will have run contain duties.




The defense also offers the ability to play an aggressive approach with the strong safety walked down toward the tackle box. As you can see here, there is one deep safety and it means more players closer to the line of scrimmage.

The style of defense allows quick defenders to blitz from a multiple of angles.

WHO WILL PLAY WHERE
Wilks has been known for finding a player who can play his safety/linebacker hybrid role. He had Shaq Thompson during his days in Carolina, and Budda Baker with the Cardinals.

Finding that player who is athletic enough to match up with tight ends and bigger slot players, but also can be physical enough against the run is vital to the defense's success.

Wilks doesn't want to use multiple players at the position, depending on tendencies. He discussed his options in Cleveland.

"Shaq as well as Buddha (are the models for) guys that we have here with (Jermaine) Whitehead and then again with Juston Burris and (Sheldrick) Redwine. I want to make sure from a matchup standpoint when they go two [running] backs, it is totally different."

It's clear the defensive staff likes Whitehead and Burris, but Eric Murray has also had plenty of success during camp, and Redwine was specifically mentioned for his ability to play the role.

The front office spent assets on the role in the offseason, adding the flexibility in the safety and cornerback room give Wilks options on gamedays.

HOW IT LOOKED AT THE SCRIMMAGE
The application was as you might expect. They gave multiple single-high and double-high safety looks, and they rushed their group of defensive backs from various positions.

The interesting thing to note will be how Wilks uses Damarious Randall. Traditionally the free safety has been used in the deep center in single-high and two-high safety looks, but Randall has specifically mentioned he will be closer to the ball on occasion and he was during Saturday's scrimmage.

Redwine has mentioned how the two safety positions are fairly interchangable. Training camp allows for coaches to rotate players throughout the secondary. Unlike college, coaches scheme for teams, not position. The players in a 53-man roster secondary need to understand the role of all five positions.

That also helps players understand the big picture instead of one small portion of the philosophy.

Although assignments have yet to be finalized, there is no doubt the secondary is playing confidently and the two linebackers are comfortable patrolling the middle of the field instead of worrying about the slot.

FINAL THOUGHTS
The principle of having more defensive backs makes sense on paper, but the NFL is a matchup league and Wilks certainly knows this.

"Now, you are talking about old school football. When you talk about 12 personnel (one running back, two tight ends) when they can split (TE) David (Njoku) out (the alignment is more one running back and one tight end). ... That is the matchup that we try to make sure that we can handle.”

The good thing is the defense has the athletes who can match up with those talented interior receivers and tight ends. The ability to do so doesn't stop after the first-team players as well.

A welcome change for traditionally thin rosters.

Wilks has full autonomy of the defensive side of the ball, and spoke of appreciating his working relationship with head coach Kitchens.

"I think the communication with Freddie has been outstanding," he said. "He is heavily involved in what we are doing on this side of the ball with the communication between him and me. Constantly talking about certain things we need to be working on and trying to create those certain looks within practice.”

Kitchens will be involved in what the defense will be doing week to week, but he is trusting Wilks to run this ship correctly.

That's a big leap of faith, but Browns fans should know it's rooted in both proper scheme and a proper analytical approach.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/03/19 11:41 PM
Quote:
Gone is Gregg Williams, and his propensity to play three linebackers.


That isn't really accurate. Williams played a lot of only two linebacker sets when he was w/the Rams. I think he played 3 LBers here because our strong safeties sucked so bad in coverage. Peppers was bad in coverage and the other dude...what was his name...Kindred....was even worse.

Quote:

Here is what the base defense will look like with two deep safeties.


Not a fan of two-deep safeties.


Quote:

Redwine has mentioned how the two safety positions are fairly interchangable.


My guess is this will be exploited by getting athletic TEs and slot WRs on the safety who is not named Randall.

Quote:
The style of defense allows quick defenders to blitz from a multiple of angles.


Wilks is similar to Williams in that both love to blitz.


Quote:

The nickel and weak side corner will have run contain duties.


I knew this was coming. Said it a long time ago. Good luck w/that.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/04/19 12:05 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
That isn't really accurate. Williams played a lot of only two linebacker sets when he was w/the Rams. I think he played 3 LBers here because our strong safeties sucked so bad in coverage. Peppers was bad in coverage and the other dude...what was his name...Kindred....was even worse.


Gregg Williams played three linebackers less in 2018 than he did in 2017 but he still played a base defense way more than the league average despite having Damarious Randall and Jabrill Peppers. In 2018 we played base 31% of the time (7th in the league). I'd bet it'd be a bit higher if Kirksey and Schobert didn't get hurt. In 2017 we were in base 66% of the time.

Compare that to Wilks' Cardinals defense which was only in base 10% of the time last year. With the Panthers Wilks was in base 50% of the time but the metrics lie a little bit because they count Shaq Thompson as a linebacker when he is really more of a hybrid Jabrill Peppers type player.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Not a fan of two-deep safeties.


Me either. I think we will see this (from the link above) more often than not:



Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
My guess is this will be exploited by getting athletic TEs and slot WRs on the safety who is not named Randall.


Pick your poison. Would you rather have Burnett/Redwine/Harris/Whitehead on this player or Carrie or a rookie/terrible linebacker (Wilson/Takitaki/Taylor)? I don't know the answer to this question and no one does really. It is one of the main problems facing modern NFL defenses.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/04/19 12:23 AM
I am okay w/the rest of your post, but I really have no idea how your answer is connected to what I said in this part.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
That isn't really accurate. Williams played a lot of only two linebacker sets when he was w/the Rams. I think he played 3 LBers here because our strong safeties sucked so bad in coverage. Peppers was bad in coverage and the other dude...what was his name...Kindred....was even worse.


Gregg Williams played three linebackers less in 2018 than he did in 2017 but he still played a base defense way more than the league average despite having Damarious Randall and Jabrill Peppers. In 2018 we played base 31% of the time (7th in the league). I'd be it'd be a bit higher if Kirksey and Schobert didn't get hurt. In 2017 we were in base 66% of the time.

Compare that to Wilks' Cardinals defense which was only in base 10% of the time last year. With the Panthers Wilks was in base 50% of the time but the metrics lie a little bit because they count Shaq Thompson as a linebacker when he is really more of a hybrid Jabrill Peppers type player.


And I am not sure I even want you to answer because I am getting a funny feeling that you may be trying to represent what I said incorrectly. I clearly brought up that Williams played w/2 LBers in LA. I believe he played 3 here because our safeties were terrible in coverage his first year and only Randall could cover the second year.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/04/19 12:26 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I am okay w/the rest of your post, but I really have no idea how your answer is connected to what I said in this part.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
That isn't really accurate. Williams played a lot of only two linebacker sets when he was w/the Rams. I think he played 3 LBers here because our strong safeties sucked so bad in coverage. Peppers was bad in coverage and the other dude...what was his name...Kindred....was even worse.


Gregg Williams played three linebackers less in 2018 than he did in 2017 but he still played a base defense way more than the league average despite having Damarious Randall and Jabrill Peppers. In 2018 we played base 31% of the time (7th in the league). I'd be it'd be a bit higher if Kirksey and Schobert didn't get hurt. In 2017 we were in base 66% of the time.

Compare that to Wilks' Cardinals defense which was only in base 10% of the time last year. With the Panthers Wilks was in base 50% of the time but the metrics lie a little bit because they count Shaq Thompson as a linebacker when he is really more of a hybrid Jabrill Peppers type player.


And I am not sure I even want you to answer because I am getting a funny feeling that you may be trying to represent what I said incorrectly. I clearly brought up that Williams played w/2 LBers in LA. I believe he played 3 here because our safeties were terrible in coverage his first year and only Randall could cover the second year.


I was just trying to point out that despite playing much less base defense in 2018 we still played base way more than other teams (especially the Cardinals).
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/04/19 12:26 AM
Wait.............there is something else.

You quoted this:

Quote:
My guess is this will be exploited by getting athletic TEs and slot WRs on the safety who is not named Randall.


However, you did not quote what I was responding to. I was responding to the safeties being interchangeable. I think this is a mistake and that Randall should be the FS and whoever the other guy is should be playing SS. That was my point. You don't want a guy like Burnett playing the deep safety..............in my opinion.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/04/19 12:29 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Wait.............there is something else.

You quoted this:

Quote:
My guess is this will be exploited by getting athletic TEs and slot WRs on the safety who is not named Randall.


However, you did not quote what I was responding to. I was responding to the safeties being interchangeable. I think this is a mistake and that Randall should be the FS and whoever the other guy is should be playing SS. That was my point. You don't want a guy like Burnett playing the deep safety..............in my opinion.


Got it. I didn't quote what you were responding to because the post was getting really messy format wise.

My guess is that we won't really see Morgan Burnett very often and if/when Randall is playing closer to the line of scrimmage than the other safety will be Whitehead or Burris or Redwine or Harris.

(Side note: I wouldn't be shocked if Burnett didn't make the team.)
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/04/19 12:32 AM
So which other safety do you think will play a lot of FS? And are you disagreeing w/me that we might be better served to keep Randall at FS instead of interchanging them?
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/04/19 12:52 AM
I could have sworn that Freddie Kitchens said just this week that they had no depth chart as of yet.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/04/19 12:52 AM
Originally Posted By: FL_Dawg
I could have sworn that Freddie Kitchens said just this week that they had no depth chart as of yet.


Freddie Kitchens lied.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/04/19 09:18 AM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: FL_Dawg
I could have sworn that Freddie Kitchens said just this week that they had no depth chart as of yet.


Freddie Kitchens lied.


I wouldn't call it a lie. Lets just say they haven't released one at this point. There may be a few positions that are unsettled, but the coaches have a pretty good idea most of the way through the starting line-up.
Posted By: guard dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/04/19 02:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
So which other safety do you think will play a lot of FS? And are you disagreeing w/me that we might be better served to keep Randall at FS instead of interchanging them?


I'm going to split hairs on this one. I agree that Randall is the best option at FS and should play the majority of snaps at that position. There is going to be somebody listed as the #2 FS, we can be sure of that. But your question says "a lot". I think Redwine and Burris, maybe Carrie, Murry or Dean could take limited reps at that spot if a particular down and distance situation moves Randall. Although I can't come up with a good reason for moving him out of position.

This is all hypothetical, of course.
Posted By: eotab Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/04/19 02:33 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: eotab
Just who is "TAYLOR" SAM???

I always thought it would be Avery or King playing SAM



Avery is strictly an edge rusher. I don’t know who King is.

Don’t worry about the third linebacker, we won’t be using him much. Wilks’ defense in Arizona played sets with less than three linebackers 86% of the time last year.


Dont' know why King pops up in my head for Mack Wilson...lol laugh

Avery is more than an edge rusher he has size and quickness and improved with each game last year. I expect to see him a lot at SAM...

Now if this kid Taylor happens to be a TE Coverage guy extraordinaire then I can understand. We will see Maybe its just him cause the other at SAM is Avery.

Avery I see as "GREAT" in the long run. Taylor (without seeing him for a year) I can assume he is smart and get himself in good position to make plays - He better be quick/fast for a LB and excellent in coverage. Can't tell me he can blitz better than Avery in a 2 point stance. Avery is a WEAPON We will see.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/04/19 07:16 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
Avery is more than an edge rusher he has size and quickness and improved with each game last year. I expect to see him a lot at SAM...


Avery has not practiced at linebacker at all this off-season.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 08/04/19 08:19 PM
Yeah, it really seems they want him as a pass rusher and that’s it
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: eotab
Avery is more than an edge rusher he has size and quickness and improved with each game last year. I expect to see him a lot at SAM...


Avery has not practiced at linebacker at all this off-season.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 09/02/19 02:51 PM
Olivier Vernon: Browns brewing up ‘something special’

https://www.cantonrep.com/sports/20190901/olivier-vernon-browns-brewing-up-something-special

Larry Ogunjobi says advice from Olivier Vernon and Sheldon Richardson has been huge as the Browns’ D-line aims to dominate out of the 2019 gate.


BEREA The NFL is forever unleashing nobodies who wind up mattering.

Two bolts out of the blue hope to strike Sunday for teams aiming to rule the AFC North. The Browns boast Devaroe Lawrence, who spent the preseason in quarterbacks’ faces (four sacks) after spending most of 2018 on the practice squad. The only NFL player with as many as five preseason sacks was Pittsburgh’s Tuzar Skipper, an undrafted rookie out of Toledo.

It remains to be seen whether the August buzz they built can last into mid-November, when the Browns and Steelers collide in the first of their two meetings.

For now, Pittsburgh must worry about a Sunday night opener at New England. Tennessee will play at Cleveland earlier in the day.

The Browns seem loaded on the defensive line. Lawrence and others offer intriguing depth behind a potentially lights-out starting foursome with 21 pro seasons of experience.

Two of the starters hung out after the preseason finale, sharing laughs and entertaining questions.

There was Olivier Vernon, who barely played in August, but sacked Jameis Winston twice when he did. There was Larry Ogunjobi, a third-year pro aiming to make a jump.

Vernon said he is “enjoying every second” on a team intent on brewing up “something special.” He was an injured New York Giant last September, but in the first game he played, he sacked Carson Wentz.

In Sheldon Richardson’s 2018 opener, with Minnesota, he sacked Jimmy Garoppolo.

Returnees who played in the Browns’ 21-21 tie with Pittsburgh last Sept. 9 include Myles Garrett (two sacks of Ben Roethlisberger in that opener), Ogunjobi (sack plus a tackle for loss) and Genard Avery (sack). Mix Lawrence and 2018 Round 3 pick Chad Thomas (sack in the preseason finale) and ...

“Shoot,” said Vernon, “we’re very young and very talented. We’ve just got to put everything together. This organization is very hungry. Very, VERY hungry. And I see that.”

Vernon and Richardson both will turn 29 during the season. No 2018 Browns D-lineman had anything approaching their experience.

Ogunjobi was a backup as a rookie Round 3 pick in 2017. He started all 16 games last year. He was listening nearby when someone asked Vernon what advice he might offer.

Ogunjobi butted in with the answer: “Have patience.”

Vernon smiled and said, “Exactly, man. It doesn’t happen overnight.”

“Larry’s got all the tools he needs,” Vernon said. “I’ve been in the game a little while. Sheldon and I are the oldest when it comes to years on the defensive line. Part of why we’re here is spreading knowledge.

“I appreciate that the young guys are willing to listen. If I was in their position, I’d want to know the same things.”

In Pittsburgh, the 3-4-based Steelers have kept 10 linebackers, including Tuzar Skipper. The 4-3-based Browns initially kept 10 defensive linemen, if you count “linebacker” Genard Avery, whose biggest asset, the coaches say, is pass rushing.

Garrett, the D-line’s biggest name, remains the youngest man in the group, at 23. Ogunjobi turned 25 in June, but he didn’t take up football until well into his high school days.

“I want to be the best at what I do,” Ogunjobi said, “and that requires asking a lot of questions. I’m a sponge around Olivier and Sheldon, because really this game is from the neck up when you get to this level.

“That’s who I go to ... Olivier and Sheldon. It’s a blessing to have older guys. For sure.”

Steve Wilks is getting older. The Browns’ new defensive coordinator turned 50 the day of the preseason opener, a 30-10 win over Washington.

“New” has worked out wonderfully for him more than once. He was the new defensive backs coach in Chicago the season the Bears ripped New Orleans 39-14 in the NFC title game. He was promoted to assistant head coach in Carolina in 2015, when the Panthers smoked Arizona 49-15 in the NFC finals.

It was early August when Wilks said of the defensive line, “You can see right now it is going to be the strength of our team.”

The starters didn’t play much in the preseason.

“Once you get close to the season,” Ogunjobi said, “they want to save your legs and make sure everything is straight.

“Now it’s time to play. I’m really excited. I can’t wait. It should be really fun.”

Vernon has been waiting a long time to have any real NFL fun. Ogunjobi hadn’t yet taken up football when Vernon was rushing Ohio State quarterback Terrelle Pryor on a September Saturday in 2010. As a pro, Vernon’s record in playoff games (four seasons in Miami, three with the Giants) is 0-1.

It’s opening week. His new team is undefeated.

“In camp, in the games,” he said with a glint in his eye, “the young guys have been ballin’.”
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 09/02/19 02:55 PM
Vernon was maybe the biggest positive this preseason ... he really showed me a great ability to disrupt and affect our team
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/14/19 03:00 PM
Blitz more they said!

Posted By: oobernoober Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/14/19 03:03 PM
If this metric was posted up earlier (after week 3 or 4) I would wholeheartedly agree. I thought our Dline was doing an excellent job harassing QBs. We were going against more mobile QBs, so the pressure didn't really translate into sacks, but the hurries were there.

I feel like this has kinda fallen off the last couple games.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/14/19 03:17 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
If this metric was posted up earlier (after week 3 or 4) I would wholeheartedly agree. I thought our Dline was doing an excellent job harassing QBs. We were going against more mobile QBs, so the pressure didn't really translate into sacks, but the hurries were there.

I feel like this has kinda fallen off the last couple games.
We gave Den and Buff allllll day to throw. We cant do that with Mason. He is king dump off, and we struggle tackling.

he will take dump off after dump off, and they will get 5,6,7 yards each time because we cant tackle.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/14/19 08:34 PM
This idea that our LB can hang with a slot or RB out to the sidelines is horribly wrong. Our zone is a spectator sport back there. May as well send an extra guy, because we aren't getting there. Not like we have seen our D work well back there. Not often enough.
Posted By: Swish Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/15/19 05:39 PM
jc

so, how's everyone liking greedy williams play?

overall, he's doing fine as a rookie. still dunno why he got the start over mitchell but whatever.

I think him and Ward are gonna turn out to be quite the tandem.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/15/19 05:43 PM
Originally Posted By: Swish
jc

so, how's everyone liking greedy williams play?

overall, he's doing fine as a rookie. still dunno why he got the start over mitchell but whatever.

I think him and Ward are gonna turn out to be quite the tandem.


I'm liking him just fine...perplexed by the lack of Mitchell tho.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/15/19 07:32 PM
Anyone know when we get Vernon and Murray back?
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Film Room: Browns Defense - 11/15/19 10:56 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Anyone know when we get Vernon and Murray back?


No doubt we need Vernon back badly now. Any chance we can swap that pick back for Avery?

There were some speculating he’d practice this past week. He didn’t. My hope is Vernon will be back by our next meeting with the black and yellow. My hope is he continues the beatdown on Rudolph... in a totally legal, penalty free way... but a beatdown none the less. I hope we ‘ruin’ Rudolph’s career by making him hear footsteps with every drop back. throwinh a bunch more picks along the way. Much like the Steelers helped to do to so many of our PTSD riddled young QBs over the past 20 years. May they find themselves mired in another decades long run of Kordells, Bristers, Malones, O’Donnells, Tomzacks.... hopefully Rudolph is added to that scrap pile. Not for last knight’s ordeals either. I’ve wished this for every AFCN rival, but especially the black and yellow, from the day we came back and watched Couch, and others, get destroyed.
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