Finally I have come to believe that Dorsey will get this right.

First he knows what he is doing. He has the experience, connections, and knowledge.

Second the team is ready and positioned well to improve.

Third Dorsey will select a guy he can work well with and that is extremely important.

There are a number of guys that have good resumes and most I believe will see this situation as a good opportunity.

I doubt that we will be in a position where we will have to settle for the crumbs.

So today on Thanksgiving I am thankful for where the Browns are and looking forward to the seasons to come as well as the rest of this season.

I believe Dorsey will get this right also but one thing you didn't mention but I figure you know is the new coach will have to be able to work with Baker ...

The Browns are in a position where they could become really good, really quickly. I know I know.. there's always next year, but this is not something I've made a habit of saying in the past.

It has more to do with the amount of outstanding young talent at premium positions. There are a lot of good vets on the team. There's still a ton of cap space, extra picks. Dorsey has looked like the real deal so far.. he has to keep that pipeline open, just keep bringing in players so there aren't any weaknesses, 1 to 53.

I've said about all I can say about Hue (note: I've said this before and lo and behold, there was more to say!) but one of the legitimately good reasons behind bringing him back this year was to give Dorsey the chance to evaluate things as a whole. See how the Cleveland Browns function. If push comes to shove, he could add a lot of young talent and improve the culture of the team and I believe he's done exactly that. This head coaching job is a lot more desirable now than it was in the off-season.

Now he just has to get it right. I trust in him to do the job well. This is by far the most important thing he has to get right this off-season. The thing that worries me is Haslam meddling and just having to get that "big name" coach. Dorsey and the new guy have to get along well, they have to see things similarly-- in scheme, attention to detail, scouting, etc. No more clash of personalities where guys don't get along or mixing different schemes, etc. It does not work!

Please, Jimmy, just let Dorsey handle it. You made a good hire, now let him do his job.

I trust Dorsey because there is a good legitimate amount of time to hire at this Juncture. He has the time to search without being desperate through the stretch. He can actually be dilligint in his search and go over everything with a fine tooth comb.

Right now and it can change as we go along but RIGHT NOW...I want things AS IS!

Getting to like Williams as HC I like him more and more and he is much more looser than anything I expected. Also I'm really really liking Kitchens as the OC and hope we remain there.

So for me CONTINUITY, Good HC in Williams, Good OC in Kitchens.

Dorsey will have lots of very good candidates to weed through and given that we aren’t hiring a head coach for just the next couple of years but for the next decade I think it’s safe to say Gregg will not be getting the job. The fact Gregg is interim head coach will carry zero weight. Continuity will mean little to Dorsey at this point and if anything it’s a negative.

Williams has a 6-7 week interview. He cleary has a advantage. If we start winning games and the team responds, it will be hard to get rid of him.

I agree. People saying that Dorsey will no way keep Williams is a weak argument. If the progress continues, and the team starts winning, I can't believe Dorsey would throw that out just because he can. He is looking for a winning combination, and if it is present already why would a guy like Dorsey remove it just to put his own guy in there. He doesn't come off as a guy that is that petty. Results appear to be what he relies on.

Things could change over the next six weeks, if improvement stops and it is obvious that the present staff is not achieving what he is looking for, then I could see him changing everything. But if it continues to progress, I believe Dorsey is smart enough to understand that the continuity will benefit this young team.

If williams can be the guy, its just makes everything easier. Makes next year easier, makes the draft and FA easier. I'd say if he can win 3 of these last games you keep him

I am more optimistic now, and there is a sweet number of draft picks coming. What kind of deficiency are we seeing now given another slew of major changes? What progress we are seeing is so objectionable? Why should success under the burden of many learning curves get thrown out? If we find better, then great. These guys need a fair shake as they play out.

Not sure why some of our dawgs feel it is an automatic firing. If the chemistry is here with these guys, a little loyalty is in order.

Does it even really matter? No matter who he hires won't have the job long enough to stall their system let alone their own culture. Haslem will do what he ALWAYS does and fire whoever gets the job in 2 seasons or less.

Why do you say Gregg will not be getting the job?

If the team does well over the next 6 games.. I think they'd be damn fools not to give him the job.

Have you ever know this team to NOT act like they are run by fools. I mean it's Haslem that runs things. Not Dorsey.

I am hardly a Haslam fan.

In fact I have ripped him as much as anyone.

But he is not a fool. He has to be aware of the failures to date.

He did hire Dorsey. He knows that the draft was positive.

It has been stated that Dorsey is conducting the search.

It would be foolish to have him conduct the search and then go against Dorsey's recommendation.

Could he say "good job but I want to hire this guy". Sure. But I don't believe he would do that.

I posted the following in Dorsey thread..the subject matter is similar.

Respectfully, I think giving Gregg the job just because we do well the next 6 games would be foolish. Lots can happen over the next 6 games and many coaches have gone through some short good runs only to be eventually fired. I feel Dorsey is smarter than that. You pick the best HC available.... period. What are the odds that that happens to be our former Defensive Coordinator? Sure it’s possible but I think highly unlikely. If we were hiring for just next year then sure but we aren’t and shouldn’t be. So pick the BEST available... not the guy who happens to be here (unless he is the best available.)

Harbaugh will be available

Harbaugh probably won't be available.

I don't think he'd be a good fit for the Browns anyway. I actually think he's a great coach. People like to give him a hard time because of some personality quirks and because he's been known to lose some big games in his career (sometimes in unusually heart-breaking fashion.)

He gets his guys to play hard and above their talent level. Stanford was a contender for a national championship. Three straight seasons with at least a conference championship birth with the 49ers. Michigan is playing good football, they're not the most talented team in the Big Ten (that is obviously the Buckeyes) but he has them playing sound football even if that didn't show so much today.

There's never been a scandal under his watch that I know of, on any of his teams. Not unless you count awkward handshakes and such as scandals. Some do... I don't.

That said, he does have that sort of abrasive personality that I don't think would fit in very well with this young team and uncertain coaching staff. We saw how that can affect a team with Haley and Hue. Harbaugh also isn't so much known for innovative football. A lot of it is old school although part of that might just be due to personnel.

Good coach, but I'd look elsewhere for where the Browns are right now.

I'd like to agree with you but he's proven in the past he's willing to do some really dumb stuff.

The upside this time is I don't think Dorsey would stand for it, so he'd probably quit if forced to hire a coach he didn't want and if that happened it would probably be the last straw for this fanbase/franchise and hit ol' Haslam in the pockets, the one thing he cares about.

Nope for me

Which Harbaugh?

Did Dorsey not send him an application yet, or what?

I love Bruce Arians and think he is a very good coach. I don’t think he is the right coach for this team. Arians just had to miss announcing a game last week due to health problems.

Matt Campbell come on down.

I’d like Matt Campbell more if I knew what his NFL offense would be.

No idea.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/brown...fl-teams-radar/

I mean it's Haslem that runs things. Not Dorsey.

And yet Haslam wanted to keep HUE here but it was Dorsey who demanded that Hue get fired. I think its clear who is running this ship.

jmho

0/ Give Williams 2.5 years.

I want to see if he can equal (ahem, previous coach)es greatness.

Seriously, Why hire a coach which would mean tearing everything down, roster wise, and scheme wise, when the young group of players if finally in place.

Plus, the Browns already used their extra supplemental draft picks Sashi gave them,

So, the right move is keep the team together and see what they can do with Interim Coach in control and past influences out of the way.

The right move is to keep the team together, develop an identity, a "brand" of football,

and develop young coaches from within, promote from within.

Promote from Within, which they did, a few weeks ago.

So Now? See the plan through, for oh, maybe 2.5 years like Hue got.


( Sticking with the plan, it's the one thing the Browns haven't tried since 1999, and unless you include the guy who had the historically two worst win loss records in team and largely "league" history, they haven't stuck with a plan.)

If Williams is even semi competent, He's yonng enough, the only way to change now, is if Williams stays on,

Otherwise they should go at least 2.5 years, because it shows stability as a franchise.

I don't think it is that simple. Does the public know all that went down the day Haley, Saunders, Williams, etc. played musical chairs.
Jimmy is still the owner, and Who hired Dorsey.

GM is the football guy who runs and builds the organization. I think it was clearly on record that Haslam wanted to keep Hue but prevailed to his GM who wanted Hue out!

Sometimes it is that simple...especially when it is spelled out...lol

I think Dorsey is smart enough to have all ends covered.

1. He had to have a short list of potential HC when coming here with the GM job.

2. He is smart enough to see it through (the 2018 season) and judge Williams on his job, so far it is looking pretty good. Also judging Kitchens which is so so important as a compliment to the Overall #1 investment. It will be very hard to get a Good HC candidate to come here and then tell them WHO THEIR OC IS...very hard unless it is a Defensive minded HC who does not have their OC in mind.

But can you see a HC involved with the O having their OC picked out for them? Which comes back to Kitchens if he is the dream OC then you got to go with Williams as long as he is good with Kitchens remaining here. And Kitchens just very well be the guy 3 years from now to run the whole show!

jmho

Arians is certainly making a statement that he wants to be the HC. It's unequivocal.

Actually at the beginning of the season I was all for giving Hue the entire season. I mean I felt he deserved the entire year with some talent to see what he could do having at least average team talent. I actually thought it started pretty well. That game against the Saints was pretty good. Yes, it ended in an L but they are a great team and we fought them tooth and nail.

But as time went on we got worse, not better. The gradual improvement simply wasn't there. By the time he was let go I didn't really care one way or the other. We weren't on the trajectory I had felt we should be on.

It wouldn't surprise me if Haslam felt the same way. People can change their mind or become ambivalent about a situation when given more evidence.

Arians not only has wanted to HC the Browns for many years he is now saying he would keep FK as OC and consider GW as DC. Any possibility that would work? To be fair I doubt GW goes for that after being successful in pulling this team back into some semblance of viability.

Arians is a good football coach.

He had this to say as well:

"Arians did say that if he got the job, he'd keep Freddie Kitchens as offensive coordinator and would consider keeping defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, as well. "

I could buy into that.

While we looked pretty good last week, I think it's still early to say the Browns are a viable team. I think we'll need a little more evidence before we can come to that conclusion. Hopefully some great evidence to bolster that opinion will come today!

I feel ya. I didn’t mean to imply they’ve climbed out of the pit completely but more in the sense that they aren’t the laughing stock Hue and Todd we’re making them look to be. Honestly I’m just impressed with the increase in discipline and decrease in penalties which was a serious issue for all of Hues time here.

Kitchens is making a strong push to stay IMO

If he keeps this up he basically has to stay.

Except needs to tone down the dumb calls (trick plays, getting baker hit, prevent offense, etc.)

I don’t know how much the prevent offense is him versus the head coach.

but... did we win? We can't start complaining about how we are winning games. We are not New England

Freddie kitchens for mayor! Seriously though... he calls a solid game and he will be an OC somewhere within a couple seasons.

Isn't he an OC now?

Always look to improve.

I try not to look at it as complaining and more constructive criticism, considering the way we played today has been one of the major reasons we've been losing for 15+ years almost consecutively.

Today we had the superior talent to escape, but most good teams just put it away. Maybe we're not there yet so they hedged their bets, I'm fine with that, but I always look to do better!

I look at it differently. In years past, we were the ones that were down big and put up a couple garbage scores to pull within a couple scores. Today we ran a picture perfect prevent D, making the bungles use up 2/3 of the 4th quarter, waste a time out and end up with no points on their last drive. We didn't escape, we put up an insurmountable lead and won by 15.

I see it both ways but most importantly I see a young team learning to win.

I agree. Jimmy is still the boss since he owns the company, but Dorsey is the captain of the ship.

I think this team is flourishing under Williams, and I’d like to see him be named HC.

Wish I could see it like you! What I saw is a team fail to put the dagger in on offense. A couple first downs would've winded it down.

I'm not mad at the D. They did great. Just hate to see us Run on 1st/2nd down, throw a lack luster throw or trick play on 3rd then punt. Just doesn't eat up enough time vs continuing to play the O that's been working all game anyways.

I'd even be fine with 2 runs and a pass, but try the pass on 1st or 2nd down sometimes, or a high percentage pass so you don't stop the clock.

I guess we thought Chubb could get the yards just by pounding it, but never really works out that way.

Kitchens is learning as well as the team. Now he’ll know more for the next time. As will Williams, if he was the one who called for the conservative scheme.

It was a win, and it was a good win, if not perfect.

Yeah, reading between the lines I am picking up the same hints.

I would say that Arians is acting a bit too bold in his approach toward finding a coaching job. Arians hasn't earned anything in Cleveland and unless there is something going on behind the scenes that I'm not aware of, I don't see Arians making Dorsey's list.

As of today, Gregg Williams would at the top of the list..but that is subject to change...5 games to go.

If that's true, then let Haslam keep picking the talent, cause he did a fantastic job last year.

Agreed.. I don't think Arians publicly announcing his desire for the Browns head coaching job is doing him any favors, if that is truly what he is going for.

Remember Dorsey before the draft... "if you know who I'm going to take, I'm not doing my job", or something to that effect. He has a penchant for secrecy, something that drives some people crazy but is actually really smart (given the job he has, that is.)

Arians is a really good coach and did great work in Indy and even Arizona. I'm not sure he'd be a great fit as head coach though I do wonder if he'd be agreeable to something less-- perhaps a (highly compensated) QB coach/offensive consultant, or something along those lines.

You would think it would be easy for Arians to get Dorsey's phone number, if he already doesn't have it. I don't see the reason for going public with his desire for the job, unless he thinks some fan support will help him. I'm wondering if this will help him with Dorsey or if Dorsey will be turned off by this approach.

Don't sleep on Williams. He has changed the attitude on the team. Players would rather win than be coddled with false excuses.

Absolutely

Williams is coaching his way into serious consideration.. or at I would think so.

There's still five games to play, including a tough one coming up at Houston. At least the Texans will be coming off a short rest, playing today (Monday night). Sometimes those little breaks can make the difference.

...

I read it .. moved on ... thought ... wait .. what ... went back and sure enough started to *LOL* ...

Its awesome when its so subtle u have to do a Joey Triviani to get it ... *LOL* ..

YOUR THE BEST BARTENDER EVER!!!!!

Huh ... u ready to re-think your stance on no one wanting the job yet mac or u need a little more time ...

My theme will be ... I TRUST DORSEY ...

Just curious ...

Why else would Arians be “going for” with the agressive manner inwitch he is answeringthese questions? ...

And Jimmy needs to realize by now, after watching decision after decision of his blow up in his face, that he finally got the Dorsey decision right.. and he needs to go sit on the deck by the pool and let Dorsey captain the ship without interference or pressure.

And the current staff made a compelling point on Sunday that the answer to our coaching search is already in the building and that no changes need to be made.. made look for a defensive coordinator with some experience... and a special teams coach.. the Bengals kick returns were starting to scare the crap out of me yesterday.

I agree. Haslam needs to stay out of the way and Let Dorsey run the coaching search.

Lets see,
Jimmy slick obviously cannot put together a management team at his business but tries to do it in his football team = Result = blows up SEVERAL times by now.

Second, Dorsey hires T.Haley to call plays but T. Haley is not listening to coach and doing things openly against the coach. The only smart thing Dorsey did was fire Hue and Todd. But he was the one that set that up!!

SO I guess we have to hope that Dorsey learned from his mistakes and picks a coach with some experience and who can get along with Kitchens and maybe Gregg = fat chance!!

I like Arians as a coach but he aint going to get along with Gregg!!

Just clicking.

If we keep trending upward - not just wins, but showing growth and cohesiveness, looking well-oiled - how do we not retain Williams?

Something has to be done about our STs: we can't cover kicks well, and have not done so all season.

As for Williams becoming the head coach next year?He's in an awesome position as of now.

Why? Any other candidate will sit down with Dorsey and plead their case "Hire me, cause I'll do this, and that" etc.

Williams is undergoing the ultimate 'interview'. Provided things continue as is, he'll be able to say "Look, I took over midway through the season, and this is what happened under MY command."

Now, if the Browns implode over the next 5 games..........well. If they don't? If they manage to get 3 or 4 wins more?

But you gotta love our return game on punts and kicks. Our STs have been pretty meh.

Let's keep Williams in place. What part of his work is a firing mandate? If Dorsey knows better play and scrappy attitude, and we have gotten chippy, what part of that was unwanted?

I thought it was Hues hiring..Maybe Dorsey let Hue make it.

Hue Hires



Not sure anyone was..It was pretty obvious watching the Bengals game.



The Only smart thing ? How did he set that up if Hue hired Haley ?



What mistakes ? The only mistake made was Jimmy not listening to Dorsey about getting rid of the bum after last season..

Amazing what having a franchise QB can do. I like that he said he would keep Kitchens and consider keeping Williams. Not sure Williams would want to go back to being the DC... Still, not sure Arians would be the right guy... They HAVE to get this one right.

Well Deisle,
Hue hired Haley like Farmer made the decision to draft J. Manziel. Or maybe it was the homeless guy that Haslam was talking too!!..But again, if you think about organizational structures, why would Todd backstab the person who hired him?? Or why did Todd think he was getting the head-coaching job if Hue hired him?? Everything about that situation points to Dorsey hiring Todd and making Hue go along with it.

Yes, Dorsey screwed up!! There is NO SUCCESSFUL MANAGEMENT structure that works when the assistant is told that he has total control of an operation and does not have to listen to the person who is over him!! NONE, PERIOD, point blank! And that is what Dorsey created. If that was not the case, then why did Dorsey fire them both??

Also, if Dorsey is the GM and he saw how things were playing out, why didn't HE step in and get some order to the situation?? That's called leadership!

Dorsey has a history of drafting but not coach hiring or management. So we have to hope Dorsey learns from his mistakes and hires a coach he works well with, motivates his players, can X and O when needed plus possibly work with the O-coord we have on staff now.

NDC...you do realize that Dorsey has a boss who has the ultimate say on who is hired and who is fired?

Everything except Hue actually saying he chose to hire Haley.

I agree, and I don't think the number has to be 3 or 4 more wins. A few wins and play well in the others gives Williams a strong footing.

I agree . Hue is on record that he hired Haley. It was his decision.

I don't buy it DNDC...how you been by the way.

Let's suppose what you are saying is correct. Lets just say...if so, Hue clearly went on record that he made the hire. It's in one of his last press conference vids.

If he said that but it wasn't true, it shows how weak of mind and spirit the guy really was.

Enough on Hue, he now has his gig in Cincy.

GW may not get an offer to be a HC next year, so maybe DC is his only option.

I think if we look competitive in all, and win 2 more - the job is his to lose.

Hue says a lot of things. We know that by now, right?

Yep...

ON Kessler - "Trust Me"
On AJ - "we need to trade for him"
On RGIII - "I can bring him back"
On Baker - "Hes the last QB I wanted in the draft"

Seems like Hue also was not the QB guru some made him out to be. But yes, he talked a lot, and none of it was true.

Hue said this?

in a nutshell.

Add it up.

He said he wasn't convinced on Baker until the right up before the draft.

He refused to give baker any reps

he refused to give baker a chance at the starting role

he threw baker under the bus when he was fired and said its because he wasn't good enough or playing good enough (maybe if he had some 1st team reps in camp, he would have progressed a little faster - just a thought, hue)

Yet look what happened in Kansas City when Dorsey drafted Mohames. He sat the entire year his rookie season. Then, when Dorsey came here he signed Tyrod Taylor. Even gave a third round draft pick for him.

Hey, I don't mind people ragging on Hue as a HC. The results speak for themselves. But the exact same blue print was set up here as Dorsey had for Mohames in Kansas City. If you can't understand that Dorsey was as much a part of that process as Hue was you have blinders on.

You had a new system under Haley with a lot of new players and a new QB. Of course your back up QB isn't getting first team reps.

I guess I'm going to keep saying it, if this type of play continues, this job should be williams and Kitchens.

I have never believed that Hue wanted an OC. IMO, it was forced on him, possibly be Haslam's 'recommendation'. Hue wanted the spotlight on himself only once he became the savior...

I don't think you go into any season with your Rookie QB slated as your #1 - but two things:

1. Alex Smith is far better QB than Tyrod Taylor, which would allow for a greater chance of the rookie (mahommes) sitting.

2. Its is painstakingly obvious that Baker is the better QB on Day 1 of camp than Tyrod. Knowing this, and knowing your JOB relied on your QB, I think giving him some reps would have been the smart thing to do.

Sorry, there is no logical explanation that Baker wasn't the guy week 1, other than Hue sucks.

I can’t agree bro ...

Bake looked LOST in his last pre-season game ... LOST ...

Hindsight’s 20/20 ... TT NEVER played that bad in such a short span in Buffalo as he did for us ... i tried to temper expectations about TT on here ... even said he’d a few games over the course fo the year where he would JUST STINK TO HIGH HEAVEN ... didnt see that coming .. NO WAY ..

This was a TOXIC atmoshpere with weird things going on that made no sense ...

IF Hue completely isolated himself from the O ... that makes no sense to me in any world ... NONE ... why would that be his idea and why would he accept that being shoved down his throat ... NEITHER MAKE SENSE ..

If just sounds like an IMPLOSION waiting to happen ...

Things are looking better than UP for us for the first time ever ... Bake will still have his moments (he’s gonna have um ya’all) but he don’t look lost no more ... *L* ...

Lost? I don't think you watched the same game I did. Week 4 preseason we beat det 35-17.He started the game 3-4 for 55 yards. Even the article below says he Mayfield looked "sharp"

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-w...nearly-perfect/

Sorry, not a single thing ANYONE can say will lend me to believe Mayfield was not better suited day 1 than TT.

yes, he did. He was benched in Buff. TT is not a bad BACK UP QB. I like having him on this team, and he seems to be a good leader. Im not bashing him at all. But hes Tyrod Tayler nothing more. Baker has more talent in his pinkie than Tyrod does.

Doenst, only two things would lend to this 1. he was told he was not allowed to touch the Off by powers that be or 2. because he was pouting like a complete baby the O was taken from him.

Honestly, I think it was #1 because of what hue kept saying. Remember the presser he threw haley under the bus and this all started? Hue kept saying "as the head coach, its my right to take it over" etc etc. Knowing hue, he was saying that because he wasn't allowed to lol. I have no evidence, other than the fact that his lips were moving.

Every Qb has their moments, even Brady. Bake is the best QB we have had on this team - I dare even say more talented than Bernie. Heck, ill say it. hes more talented than Bernie.

There is absolutely not reason he shouldn't have been in on day 1, in fact, if he was - we would be on that screen leading for the wildcard if he was. which is irritating, because this year is now a throw away year, when all we had to do was not have Hue Jackson - and we could be a playoff team right now.

Your 100 % correct.

What is no nuts is Sashi and Hue are gone.

There are a few on this Board who just can't let it go.

All the Hue bashing and the Sashi talk is past tense.

The thread is supposed to be about "Head Coach Search".

In almost every thread some people have to go back to Hue or even Sashi.

We are on a winning streak. Two in a row. We scored 4 touchdowns in four drives in a half. Think about that.

We have a real GM who has brought talent to the team.

We have a quarterback who over the last three games trails only Drew Brees in QB rating.

We have a important decision to make at years end. We will have the pick of the litter for a head coach.

We have internal candidates making a strong case.

The future has not been brighter since 1985.

j/c

I keep seeing this Hue didnt give Baker an opportunity to start nonsense...

Do you all not understand that we just put a rookie through a full season and went 0-16?

Yes, Kizer and Mayfield are different, but that holds HUGGGEEEEE significant weight in how decisions would be made in grooming mayfield.

Tyrod was brought in to be the starter. PERIOD. We all sat here and thought that was the best way to approach it based on history of Cle QBs. Let Baker sit, learn, and then put him in.

Why is it at this point, we now all of a sudden wanted otherwise?

The thing is to talk about a winning streak and not crediting sashi for finally getting to where we always wanted to be is really doing him a disservice. The WHOLE reason we have the players we do is because of the work Sashi did when he was here.

It's more about Sashi cheering than Hue jeering.

Yes, it was exceptionally clear that Baker was the better QB in preseason, but it was also exceptionally clear to anyone paying attention that he was NOT ready for prime time at that time.

He said he hired Haley and it wasn't forced on him. So if you are right, he is a weak minded liar.

Hue was out for Hue. Hue was a bus driver

I think that Hue was sold a bill of goods over what this job would be. Haslem even said so earlier this year.

I think that the strain of the constant losing got to him. I think that the relationship with Haley turned immediately toxic. I think that Hue became desperate to win, and desperate rarely does win.

I do think that Hue is a good coach. I just think that this turned out to be the entirely wrong situation for him.

I also think he is a good coach...as a coordinator.


He just wan't a head coach. He had no clue. It's obvious to me his players while never quitting, never played hard for him and didn't like him.

I think Baker not hugging him and calling him a fake was spot on. Maybe you know....do you know of a head coach getting fired mid season and going to a division rival? maybe a week later?

Do you think he's a good coach because the Bengals always end up 3rd in the division ?

I mean if you look at how we totally sucked and went 1-15 then 0-16..and ended up dead last in the whole league and not just the division... So explain how he;s a good coach ?

Explain how the worst team in the last two seasons won against him because he is no longer on the Browns sideline.

He is not a good coach...he is an idiot...plain and simple

Hello Mac..


Yes, and that is why Hue went to Haslam(* which I said was wrong and that he deserved to be fired for that alone *) to try to get the play calling back. If Hue hired Todd, then why would he need to get permission from anyone?

Ballpeen,
Been doing ok.. Getting older and dealing with all that comes with it!!

As I stated before, if Hue made the hire for Todd, then why did he have to ask Haslam to get the responsibilities back?

If Hue hired Todd, then why did the Browns have to trade Hyde before Todd would actually play Chubb and Duke?? Tell ya what Peen, can you blatantly tell your boss you are not doing something he tells you do to without a DAMN GOOD REASON??

Just sayin, certain management structures are bound to fail. What Dorsey set up with bringing Hue back but telling Todd he runs the offense and don't listen to Hue would never work!

That is why I said Dorsey has to look at his OWN mistakes first and not repeat them.

Bonus -> If Dorsey is the LEADER of football operations for the Browns, and 2 of the people working under him are not getting along, then why didn't he straighten it out before it got to the point he fired them both?

Think about it Peen... You have worked plenty of jobs, have plenty of life experiences so you have seen that before.

I want Williams and Kitchens to make their retention an obvious decision based upon success.

That changes everything.

I was not initially excited about McCarthy but I'm starting to warm up to the idea...

No.

So looking at what KC did to sit Mahomes all year had nothing to do with the Browns trying to sit Baker all year? Well alrighty then. lol

I disagree with that wholeheartedly. You play the game of football to win games, and the best player to do that for you is the QB. The best player on our roster was and is Baker Mayfield at that position.

I was behind letting Tyrod start, until it was PAINSTAKINLY obvious he was not the better QB, day 1.

No actually it doesn't. Each player is his own person. What works for 1 person doesn't work for another.

Maybe if KC started Mahommes year one, they would have won a playoff game?

I don't think Pittsburgh was upset about starting Ben game 2. I don't think Hou was made about starting Watson, and so forth and so forth.

Sitting someone simply because it was the way "things used to be" doesn't mean its the right answer. The best player should play. A lot people lean by watching, some learn by doing. Mayfield is a gamer. Plain and simple. Hes going to shine in a game.

I think its a situation where both are true. I think Haslam and Dorsey took play calling away from Hue, and told him he had to hire a OC, but allowed him to head the process of Hiring one with Dorseys approval.

So hue "hired" Haley, but in no way shape or form was the offense not taken from him. Which is why he had to get permission to take it back.

Or maybe started some very bad habits and ruined a QB before he was ready. It could have gone either way



You mean an entire season earlier equates to "the way things used to be"?



I understand this is nothing more than an assumption by you because you have no idea what was going on behind the scenes. The Mayfield I saw then was clueless to reading coverage and may have suffered more harm than good by starting earlier.

It could have gone either way and neither of us really know how it would have turned out. My point all along is it was a process that Dorsey had a track record of using. Just like he did with Mohames. Those trying to lay the blame squarely on Hue for the decision of sitting Mayfield is short sighted considering Dorsey followed the exact same process one year earlier at KC. To me this was a collective decision between Hue and Dorsey.

Dorsey was fired soon after the draft.

KC also had a highly competent veteran QB in Alex Smith for Mahommes to sit and learn behind. They went 10-6, and scored 415 points, which was the 5th highest total in the NFL. While they are going to blow that total away this season, they had no real reason to play Mahommes last year, except when they had wrapped up a playoff spot.

Absolutely. In addition, to what cfrs noted in that Dorsey had been fired after the draft and before training camp had even started, KC was a playoff team w/ Alex Smith.

From Sports Illustrated in the feature piece they did on Mahomes....

No NFL player worth his eye black wants to sit—not for a game, and definitely not for a whole season. But that was Patrick Mahomes’s reality last fall, as the 10th overall pick in the 2017 draft was relegated to the bench because his Chiefs were contending behind accomplished veteran Alex Smith.

Article

Their defense was also playing at a much higher level than it is this year.

Last year they allowed 339 points. This year, through 11 games, they have allowed 294. Only 2 of those scores were defensive scores, and both came in the Rams game.

I suspect Reid had more say in that plan than Dorsey.

Agree, I don't know of any GM that doesn't want to see the supercar he just bought sitting in the garage. They want to see if flying down the highway.

Another Hue goof up. Hue was the head coach. He may not have had roster control, but he sure did have control over who started.

Hue backed Tyrod and never gave Bake any reps with the ones, even when the rook was the better player.

That is Bakers chip on the shoulder against Hue.


That was Hue's choice, and as history shows, it was the wrong choice.

Just thought I would add this:

Browns notebook: Quarterbacks Deshaun Watson, Baker Mayfield eager for reunion
https://www.ohio.com/sports/20181128/bro...ger-for-reunion

• Williams said he would have no qualms about transitioning from interim coach back to defensive coordinator if the Browns hire someone else as the full-time head coach. “I love what I do, and in all honesty, if I was not head coaching or defensive coordinator, I would love to be special teams coordinator again,” Williams said.

Interesting comment from Greg Williams. I'm not sure what to make of that. There's a part of me that wants him to want to be the head coach. And in one of our last couple of games the announcing crew indicated that Greg had said to them in a production meeting that he wanted to remain as head coach.

Maybe he's getting a vibe that won't happen and this is some type of survival mechanism. Or maybe he actually just feels that way.

I don't know. Seems weird. If we finish strong, I'm 100% in favor of Williams HC/DC and Kitchens OC.

Do we even have to have per say a head coach?

Seems to me that the more personalities in the mix, the more chance for some nonsense.

Browns should do something different.

Have two Co-Head Coaches. Williams runs the defense and Kitchens runs the offense, and they do pressers together. Freak it. lol.

Not only does GW want to remain employed, but his son, Blake, is a member on the staff.

I'm sure he's considering his son's future and that may weighing on him as well.

I believe it to be more than just this.

I have posed that thought as well. In the end you still need one voice to make decisions related to the direction the team takes, and in game decisions.

In the end, someone would have to have the final say.

I think he's just been in this league long enough to know how disruptive a "narrative" can become and wants no part of it. He's going to play the "whatever is best for the team" song and stick with it. Smart.

I agree. I've worked with people who turned down promotions/management positions because they had been-there-done-that and saw that it just wasn't "for" them. Experience kept them from diving back into the Peter Principle.

Decades ago, I was offered the job as VP of IT for a mid-sized company. I was - and still am - an Accountant. I understood how software works, what people needed from the software and could communicate with the IT staff and all the software users...I was very effective in that role. HOWEVER, I had no business leading an Organization's IT effort...none. I could have made a lot of money as a young man and milked it until I was exposed...but I knew it wasn't the best thing for me or the Company. It was one of the best things I DIDN'T do.

Maybe, maybe not. But if you look at what Dorsey has done here thus far, you gotta believe that he's got the ability to scout and find talent.

That is unless you are one of those that believe that Haslam picked the draft and FA pick ups!

Well alrighty then. lol

Gee it must be nice being the smartest guy in the room.

First and Foremost.
Alec Smith vs TT not even close.

If there was a competition. Baker would have won hands down. Alec Smith was a Pro Bowler. jmho

Dorsey signed TT to start until Mayfield was ready. It's not rocket science nor do you have to be the smartest guy in the room to figure that one out.

Keep throwing your tantrum. lmao

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I was referring to Dorsey not having a say in Mahommes sitting for the year - since he was fired after the draft (June). The point being is that Dorsey may have wanted to start Mahommes from the get-go and perhaps Mayfield. Has nothing to do with Dorsey and drafting.

You are right, except by manyl accounts Baker was winning out of the box and Hue held him back, wanting a veteran.

Funny, another bad call by Hue got himself fired. Had he given Baker some reps with the ones in camp....which was totally stupid not to, he might still be here today.

You do realize that Hue was a very poor head coach don't you?? I take that back, I consider you a smart guy, even if you look dumb as a stump.

Seriously, it made no sense to not give Baker some reps with the ones...

Sure it did ... it was the SMART thing to do ...

LOOKING BACK ... it was dumb ...

Anyone that knows a LICK ABOUT FOOTBALL knows it was the smart thing to do ...

At least until the cameras left ..

I can no longer defend Hue on a lot ... his org skills were as bad as the thiefs and appearanlty he could communicate with there players and NO ONE ELSE ... dude gives u guys PLENTY OF FODDER to blast him for ...

Why u have to make things up like this to BLAST him is a refelection on U ...

this is one where he DID THE RIGHT THING and u guys are just piling on cause for some reason u BLAME HUE for everything ...

Its really sad ... especially hen u factor in rthe amoung of reps Bake would have gotten and how much it would have helped ...

Remember ... in TC his HEAD WAS STILL ADMITTINGLY SPINNING ... the reps he took then were different from the ones he took in OTA’s and are night and day different from the ones hes taking now ..

U guys act like TT playing this bad was a given ... witch is amazing since i had to CALM ALMOST EVERY SINGLE one of u down about how good TT was ... now ... you guys are talking like he was AJ McCarronesque ...

Naaa ... PILING ON is all this is .. and theres no need for it ... plenty to bash him on u dont have to make yourselves look silly pointing out ...

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/hue-jackson...-015859991.html

Hue Jackson's final meeting with TV crew reveals how broken the Browns were before he got fired
Yahoo Sports Chris Cwik,Yahoo Sports Wed, Nov 28 8:58 PM EST



The Cleveland Browns were pretty dysfunctional in Hue Jackson’s final days as head coach. That shouldn’t come as breaking news by now. Even the most casual NFL fans know Jackson didn’t cover himself in glory during his tenure as Browns coach.

But thanks to CBS broadcaster Ian Eagle, fans have a little more insight into what the Browns were dealing with days before Jackson was fired. Eagle appeared on the Rich Eisen Show on Wednesday. During his appearance, Eagle shared a story that shed some light on the internal power struggle within the Browns during Jackson’s final days as the team’s head coach.
Hue Jackson’s firing didn’t come as a surprise to the CBS television crew. (AP Photo/Gene J. Puskar)

Eagle and former quarterback Dan Fouts were the broadcast team for what turned out to be Jackson’s final game with the Browns. During the television production meeting, Fouts asked Jackson why the Browns hadn’t incorporated some of Oklahoma’s offensive strategies to make Baker Mayfield more comfortable. Jackson responded by saying, “Yeah. Good question. I agree.” When pressed by Fouts for an answer, Jackson just said, “I agree.”

Eisen later highlighted why “I agree” was such a troubling statement from Jackson. By saying that, Jackson suggested he was at odds with offensive coordinator Todd Haley over how the offense was being run. Not only that, but Jackson’s comments also made it sound like, despite being the head coach, he was somehow losing that battle.

Eagle agreed with that assessment, and pointed out that Jackson’s comments came shortly after Jackson criticized Haley and the team’s offense.

The television crew ran into a similar issue when Mayfield was asked questions about the offense, Haley and Jackson. Eagle said there was something “amiss” about Mayfield’s answers to those questions.

Because of that, no one on the CBS television crew was surprised when Jackson was fired shortly after the game.

The Browns have gone 2-1 under interim coach Gregg Williams after parting ways with Jackson. Despite getting fired, things haven’t gone poorly for Jackson. He joined the Cincinnati Bengals as a special assistant to head coach Marvin Lewis.

While that decision led to Jackson being ripped by Mayfield, it could work out for Jackson in the end. There’s already been some speculation that Jackson could take over for Lewis as the Bengals’ next coach.

If that happens, Jackson will have at least two opportunities per season to prove to the Browns they made the wrong choice.

Fair enough. I still think Baker should have gotten some reps with the ones. Starters do get hurt, as we have seen over and over.

It is amazing isn't it? I've seen people blame the injuries we had on Hue. Now we see them blaming the fact that from what seems obvious, that neither Hue or Dorsey wanted a raw rookie starting, all lays at Hue's feet. That while installing a new system, rather than focus on getting the starter ready, we should have split the reps so that neither one of them were actually ready.

Yeah, Dorsey traded away that third round pick so TT wouldn't be the starter. And Peen said I look dumb as a box of rocks? lmao

Hindsight is always 20/20 and this bunch sure uses a lot of it.

Whatever the internal dynamics were, Hue was not the right guy. The players don't like him and as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are. Wish him well, bye.
The question is whether Gregg Williams is the right guy. He might just be.

You are still trying to rewrite history.

If you recall we tried to get Tyrod last year when Sashi was here. Hue wanted him. Dorsey wanted to get Alex Smith and I think there were a few others he was interested in before Tyrod.

Hue wasn't going to use anyone but a veteran quarterback. And he pretty much made that clear when he foolishly didn't give Mayfield any first team reps.

Hue was desperate for a vet because he felt that was the only way he could win. His and all his supporters excuse for Hue not winning was lack of quarterback, but we now know that to be false.

I don't think the new head coach and O coordinator have a problem with the talent on the team.

They coach the talent they have and make it work. That's what good coaches do.

Dorsey got the talent and Hue was coaching the team. If you can't grasp the math don't blame me.

If you're talking to me, I don't have a problem with the math.

Browns have been a much better team without Hue. He insisted on having his veteran play. He might have saved his job if he had just played Baker from the onset but I doubt it.

No need to take this down a different path with your poppycock.

The only difference we really have here is you wish to put all the blame on Hue for starting TT and I think it was an organizational decision.

On Hue being fired in the best interest of the team we agree.

There's no way either of us can prove whether it was Hue alone or the organization as a whole who decided to start TT. So maybe we should just let it go at that?

Actually, I don't disagree with you on whether it was the organization that decided to go with Tyrod over Mayfield.

With that, Hue (and possibly Haley) was the guy who didn't allow or didn't want Mayfield to practice with the first team. I believe we were the only team who didn't have their first round rookie take first team reps. The thing is Hue eliminated any talk from outside to say hey, we should maybe start Mayfield. There was no other option other than Tyrod at that point.

It's not Dorsey's place to tell Hue how to coach the team, but I think these are some of the things that assisted with Hue's firing.

I think where we disagree is that you hear Hue talk and you agree with him. Since Hue went 0-16, I haven't been able to stand listening to him. He talks jibberish, just trying to convince everyone that he knows what he's doing and when we get the players he needs he will start winning. I go back now and listen to his press conferences. I just cringe... he has no idea what he's doing. In his mind, he deserves the job because he feels he's earned it after 1-31 because he didn't have talent and a lot of people believe him.

I don't. You can disagree and hate Sashi, but there's no question we are a very talented team. Players brought in by Sashi and players brought in by Dorsey. Hue only had 2 wins in 8 games to start the season. For the amount of talent we have, that was appalling. Hue could no longer use the lack of talent excuse, although I'm sure he will, you will, and Michael Silver will...

I trust Dorsey will find the right guy to lead us. Dorsey seems like a no b.s. kinda guy, and I think he'll weed through that and find us a killer HC. I loved Sashi, but I'm all in with Dorsey.

I don't know why you insist going over this. I agree that Hue couldn't use the talent excuse this year. Hate Sashi? No, but I see him for what he was. I mean if Haslam actually thought he could build a team he would still be here.

And you see, I don't listen to a lot of the noise when it comes to coach speak. Just like the things Baker has been saying about Hue. Do you honestly feel that if Kitchens had his choice that he would want Baker speaking publicly about Hue? I'd bet money the answer is no. Yet publicly he backs Baker. That's "Coach speak".

And say what you want, you can't "build a team around" the type of players Sashi drafted. Are there some good players there? Of course. It's not like he sucked. But let's face it, he passed up on much better players. His drafts weren't strong considering the players available on the board to him in the early rounds. Kizer, need I actually say more? lmao

See, there are posters like yourself who state that people "love Hue" or "hate Sashi". I'm not that emotionally attached to any HC or GM this team has ever had. Since 1999 the turnover ratio at both the GM and HC position have been a swinging door. No, I haven't loved or hated any of them.

Looking at the Dorsey selections I'm very happy we moved on from Sashi. I watched him pass on some good QB's and I watched him draft a terrible one. Say what you will, but that was and is the first and most important job of any GM of a team that needs a QB and Sashi failed that test.

Yes, I wanted to see what Hue could do with some talent. He was given that talent and performed miserably. I'm glad we moved on from him too. So I'm not so sure what it is you keep harping about?

j/c

We'd still be in 'Head Coach Search 1' with no sequels if everyone would only discuss the NEW head coach search.

Why are we leading with Haslem's decision making as a legitimate argument?

Because the evidence dictates that finally, for once he was right. Unless you think someone else could have done a better job drafting in the last draft?

When someone gets it right, they get it right. I had no problem lambasting Haslam for his mistakes and I have no problem giving him credit when he gets something right.

Unless you're trying to say Sashi did as well drafting players?

You erroneously still believe Sashi drafted the quarterbacks.

I hear you, Dawg.

But some minions MUST prove to themselves who's in THEIR mind, right. And whose wrong.

Pretty sad. Especially in a NEW HEAD COACH thread.

Let girls play I guess.

Yet you have zero evidence to the contrary. Why do you think your theories hold so much water? They don't. It's funny. You wish to give Sashi credit for everything good that happened with the draft while he was here but wish to pass the buck on everything in the draft that went wrong while he was here. That's hilarious!

Ive mentioned several times The Athletic wrote an investigative article into Haslam and the Browns. Hue wasn't taking the HC job without having a say in the quarterbacks.

And I still don't give the credit to Sashi for drafting any of the players. I give that credit to the people he hired and ironically they are still here for the most part.

Its easy bro .... Sashi was responsible for:

MG
Joe Shobert
Tretter
Zietler

Hue was responsible for

Kizer
Cody
Britt
Collins ...

Hope that helps bro ... ...

And yet ANOTHER waisted thread.

Have you started a new OPTIMISM thread yet? Since the last got trashed also?

Oh it helps. I mean Sashi was just here to twiddle his thumbs and watch anyway. The highest paid thumb twiddler in the NFL!

Still deciding on a topic ... there’s to MANY TO CHOOSE FROM ... its good to be a dawg bro ...

U got the shuttle landings down yet .. a little birdie told me u needed some work on the shuttle landings .. ..

Not to mention Sashi and Haslem mentioned this point several times in interviews/PCs.

Mmmm hmmmm. HC's only want second and third round draft picks to build a team around. lmao

It was a WELL DESERVED and EARNED joke considering the target ...

U and I don’t agree onthis but u don’t resort to the ABSOLUTE BS he does ...

U, nor him nor I have ANY CLUE how we landed on the qb’s we did ... NONE OF US ... NO CLUE ...

Thats where he went .. and he goes to much DUMBER PLACES all the time ...

If u thik u know how we landed on the QB’s we got I’d call u out also .. but u haven’t EARNED BS butt responses like that one ...

If u work real hard you may get there someday ... *L* ... its a joke .. unclench and *L* for a minute ...

Having a say = final word ... okie dokie ..

We clearly live in different worlds ...

Is your mind really that vacant that you think this is a legit reply?

I think trying to claim that a HC picks the QB's and that Sashi gets credit for the good picks is not legitimate at all. I think claiming that a HC trying to build a team selected only second and third round QB's to build a team around sounds moronic.

Now a lawyer making those moves actually makes some sense.

You see, on one hand Haslam went out and paid some of the best analytical minds he could find to help guide the draft. He signed Sashi to a very high paying position. Then we are to believe everything they said was ignored and Hue made the QB picks? No, I don't think any of that sounds legit.

Most of what you are basing your belief on is nothing more than a bunch of PR statements that the team put out. If you think they're actually telling you what's going on behind the scenes I believe you seriously need to re-think things.

...

Well I think we should hire Jimmy Johnson and a little dab will do ya.

They still make this stuff:

Haslam should bring Peyton Manning into the mix somehow. Can't imagine a better mentor for Baker. JMHO

So basically you're saying no one knows what goes on behind closed doors, but then turn around and act like you know Hue had nothing to do with obtaining any of the QBs.

And you claim I resort to BS?

Wow. Just wow.


I've provided proof for all my claims. Have you?

You really haven't proven anything. Unless you mean corporations always tell the public the truth. So smoking isn't addictive and doesn't cause cancer. Opioids are non addictive and new drugs approved by the FDA are always safe.

Yeah, that's working.

thank you the fact of the matter is if the browns defense that beat cincinnati and atlanta shows up this game is over with.

point ttwo luck had a qb ranking of 107. against houston if mayfield goes north of that we win

Please no McCarthy.

He’s available.

I’m aware. Doesn’t change me not wanting him here.

For real. He is basically the worst possible option. Besides Jeff Fisher.

Methinks he is high on Dorsey's list. Higher than Gregg Williams.

no way do i want mccarthy

I don't get the knock on McCarthy. Nine winning seasons and playoff appearances including a Super Bowl win. He's an offensive minded coach from the Schottenheimer tree. Last season, his first missing the playoffs in eight years, his QB was hurt. This year, there may have been a real problem between he and his QB (the highest paid player in the league) for whatever reason. Overall, I think the hate is based on the jargon & chatter surrounding him of late rather than on the reality of his qualifications. Also, I would argue that GB has less talent this season than the Browns will have next season and I say bring him on, if that's who Dorsey wants. I'd love to see what he can do with Baker and the boys.

I think a lot of it is his lack of creativity on O and the lack of success with the most talented QB ever

Lack of success? Maybe this year

Yeah, and last .. and the year before ..

One super bowl title with the best QB ... he's wasted 8 years of his prime

OK, sp we add Coach McCarthy to the practice squad. Start stockpiling them for Dorsey. Can he play RT?

Last year Rogers was hurt. Only played 7 games. Year before they won the division, went 10-6 and went to the NFC championship. There is no lack of success. In fact, his career is a veritable plethora of success.

I know nothing of this guy.

We need a guy that can work happily and successfully with Baker.

Is this the guy for that?

Asking because somehow we thought Haley was great when everybody including Ben on the Steelers hated him.

I don't want another coach that players hate.

I feel like I've read that Wolf left Green Bay partly because he and McCarthy didn't get along. Anybody know about that?

Hiring him doesn't feel right to me. But I have no idea what to think. Just gotta trust Dorsey.

Honestly, I don't know if he's the guy or not. I know he's had success in the league working with a QB that shares many of the qualities Baker has. If Dorsey were to pick him as the guy, I wouldn't argue the point. I just have to hope at this point that no matter who Dorsey picks, he gets it right.

Not wanting McCarthy?

That’s rich!

He is probably tied as the absolute best coach we could get for Mayfield with Bruce Arians.

The Browns would be very fortunate to land McCarthy, and should count themselves lucky.

McCarthy makes the most sense, our entire front office came from Green Bay, it makes sense Dorsey and co are going to reach into the Holmgren/Reid tree of coaches.

The West Coast O really fits Baker and Chubbs skillset antways those two would prosper under McCarthy

No thanks on Mike 'punt the game away' McCarthy.

Without Rodgers, he wouldn't have lasted anywhere near this long in Green bay.

j/c...

Dorsey wearing his "going to grab the newspaper" outfit taking in his second straight OU game. Lincoln Riley watch?

Outfit matters none. Results matter all. In Dorsey I trust.

He will get us what we need. <3

Sure he wasn't there to scout Marquise Brown and/or Lil'Jordan Humphrey?

The trench coat/shorts combo is pure fire.

The last thing we need with Baker Mayfield as our QB is the most conservative coach in the league.

What really sets it off is wearing it like a cape.

lol, like you know what we need. Dude. Come on.

I know that we don't need a coach that will punt on fourth and two with the game on the line. No team does.

Come on now. The female version of this is short skirt long jacket.

And you all would be drooling like dogs.

But on him....um...I don't care, just keep rocking the leadership of the team. I wouldn't care if he wore this: https://www.ioffer.com/i/men-one-piece-thong-swimsuit-underwear-lingerie-567425673

Whatever he is doing works for us.

If John Dorsey's goofiness is part of what makes him good at his job then I am all for it.

Ron Rivera might be out of a job soon. He is another guy I would not like to have.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-i...g-changes-soon/

I'm Batman.

Mike M is looking for a job...

Do the Bengals have to play Green Bay ? Maybe Marvin Lewis will hire him ..

this

No Batman. His arms are in the sleeves.

Dorsey is clearly an individual who is comfortable in his own skin...

The Browns should not get in a hurry to fill their HC position with a recently fired HC, imo.

Coaches get burned out and tend to stay on longer than they should, waiting to get fired rather than admitting they need some time away from the game to reassess their situation. Very few HCs walk away on their own terms.

Football, especially on the offensive side, is changing and those coaches who realize it and adjust to those changes have a better chance of extending their careers.

I hope the Browns resist the urge to jump on the Mike McCarthy bandwagon...

I'm starting to think about a different Mike M, Munchak in Pittsburgh. His record at Tennessee wasn't great, but his QBs we're the young, oft-injured Jake Locker and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Gregg Williams was an assistant under him, so perhaps he would be retained. Who his offensive coordinator might be is unclear, though. That would be key.

Just a thought. Haven't found a candidate I'm enamored with yet.

J/C

Has a head coach ever been fired by one team and hired by another as head coach during the same season? I'm not saying I advocate this or even that it will happen, but now that McCarthy has been fired, the possibility (though very remote) is there.

Hmm ... it looks to me like his coat is draped over his shoulders.

He's Batman.

Not sure why people are against him. He has a winning record over a long period of time and has won a Super Bowl.

I get that he has had Rodgers but the guy must know how to coach.

I haven't paid close attention to him at GB.

But for sure Dorsey knows him well. Would he be the right guy for this team at this time?

I would go through the whole process. Bring in the strongest candidates and do the interviews. See how he matches up against the others.

I would not make him an automatic hire.

Yeah, I wouldn't make anyone an automatic hire, but McCarthy should definitely go through the process. I'm really enjoying the attitude of the team right now. We need to keep that going no matter who the new HC is.

This is the story than was reported here locally in Wisconsin. They passed on Wolf because he wanted to replace MM. Ironically they picked Mike’s guy to be the GM and Mark Murphy ended up firing him anyway.

Just because of that story I’d be surprised if the Browns hired him.

All he needs is a hose and a hat and he can exclaim "[censored]'s Full!!!"

I really like what Freddie is doing.

Have reservations about Williams. This is his second year. There is talent on defense. The defense has failed plenty especially in critical situations.

William is is an experienced guy who can command a room. But frankly I expected way more from the defense.

I am beginning to warm to the idea of Ariens. He said he would keep Freddie as OC. It would provide some continuity. Ariens is an experienced offensive guy who I think would do well with Baker.

His health may be an issue.

Dorsey will do this right. He will look at all options. In the end the guy has to work well with Dorsey and Baker. He has to have a sharpe football mind and be a leader of men.

In addition the key thing to me is knowing how to get max potential from each player.

Dorsey will get the chance to meet with the best candidates. Hopefully he selects the right guy for the Browns

I’m with u ... what a shocker ... *L* ..

Dorsey will let the entire thing play out ... he will turn over every rock ... if he wants to bring condi rice in for an interview ... i’m on board ...

McCarthy will be interviewed ‘m sure ... not a fan of his ... hope he doesn’t get it ... but he will definetly get a shot ...

Would love Arians ...

Williams will determine just how viable of a candidate he will be over rthe next month ..

If the rats fire john you’d figure he’d be in the mix ..

As for Freddie ... really liked how he adapted at the half ... very impressed with that ...

He may throw a wrench into this depending oh how King John and Bake feel about him ...

I like John, but he does look like a doofus.

Dorsey will not tip his hand on who is at the top of his list. I doubt it will a college coach.

He's a meathead.

But he's our meathead.

Different strokes for different folks. I think it's pretty funny-- the good kind of funny.

The idea of McCarthy doesn't excite me. At first I didn't understand why. He is an accomplished coach and clearly knows football. So what don't I like about him? Then it came to me. He feels to much like Eeyore. Just watching him on the sidelines sucks the energy right out of me.

I want a HC that brings energy and enthusiasm to the team. Feels like McCarthy does just the opposite.

i think I would be more comfortable with Kitchens and Williams thank I would McCarthy blowing it all up to run a completely different offense.

McCarthy at this point feels a little like Andy Reid did when the Eagles fired him However, I don't think he is as good a coach. He has been brutal this year.
Still, he has the career wins and SB ring, and proven coaches like that don't come along every day. In a way, he seems safer than betting on a boy wonder offensive genius. Adam Gase sure is not working out.
Gotta trust Dorsey.

McCarthy doensn't appear to be as innovative as Reid .. at least from what I've been reading

Im not a fan of McCarthy. Lets be honest, you have Rogers for how long? I think there is no question on earth you should have had more success than you did. Its most like the success they had was in spite of McCarthy.

I prefer Arians

This is all utter nonsense, as is the bashing of McCarthy in general. He had an amazing run in Green Bay. 9 Playoff runs, and a Super Bowl win. He blew blew away Sherman & Holmgren. His teams were ranked overall in the top 10 in 9 of his 13 years, top ten in offense 9 of his 13 years, top 3 in points scored for 5 of those years. Browns fans, who haven't had a real coach since Belichick and 3 winning records in 26 seasons, bashing McCarthy is a joke. A freaking joke. I can only imagine what McCarthy could do with Baker Mayfield, Nick Chubb, and the host of talent Dorsey would surround him with. But let's pass on a coach like him because a bunch of keyboard experts know so much about it. Hilarious.

He had arguably one of the best QBs of all time and squandered it. How is he going to do better with lesser talent? I just don't think it's a good match for us or for Baker.

If the only player on your team was the QB, I'd agree. Green Bay has never had a strong D. How many times have they had huge numbers on the scoreboard during those years and still couldn't win games?

I'm not necessarily throwing my support behind McCarthy but to try to simplify everything down to Rodgers and not look at the Packers as a whole I think is very short sighted.

Yeah, okay. Like I said, opinions like that should really weigh heavily on the decision making process. Did you read the article about Rogers continually changing the plays? Maybe that's part of the reason for the lack of success lately, huh? And he didn't squander anything, he turned it into successful year after successful year. Browns fans would $#!% themselves to have one year like that, let alone nine.

McCarthy made a huge mess of the secondary situation. How much of it was his fault who knows.

Burnett gets signed to a contract, Clinton Dix is there….you take Randall with your 1st round pick. Then you make Randall play corner when he was a safety in college and let Casey Heyward walk…… then you trade him for Kizer…….THEN you trade Clinton Dix?

What a mess.

Like you said, we don't know what the deal is there, so how can you blame it on McCarthy? I'm not saying it's not his fault, but we don't know. And here, Dorsey would control the roster. And again, I'm not advocating for McCarthy, I just think the bashing is bullshart, and I'd be okay with it if that's the way Dorsey goes. To pretend it would be anything but a step up for us is nonsense.

He won a Super Bowl, I wouldn't say he squandered it.

Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Tony Romo, Phillip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Carson Palmer....

There's a long list of QBs who haven't won a super bowl... one of my favorites and a hall of famer, Steve Young only won one... and he sat on the bench half his career.

Not knocking what you're saying, I just don't agree with your sentiment of "squandering it."

I don't know if I would say McCarthy squandered his opportunity. What active coach outside of Bellicheck has had the same success over the same extended period? Tomlin has one SB win. Pete Carroll has one win. Prior to last season, did he have a sub .500 record? I don't know if he is the best one for the job but it seems some are talking about him like he is Pat Shurmur. Although he does have ties to Holmgren and that will be a hard pill for me to swallow.

125-77-2... Only 3 losing seasons in 13 years isn't too shabby.

The only mark on McCarthy is that he's a steelers fan.

j/c:

Alonzo Highsmith and Eliot Wolf were in GB last year. If anyone has the pulse on the situation in Green Bay, it would be those two. And I'm guessing they have Dorsey's ear on the matter.

I think you pointed out the biggest key in all of this.

Someone here said Wolf wanted McCarthy out in GB and that's why Wolf was let go... I've tried searching for said article without any luck... anyone have any evidence of the aforementioned possible scenario?

I'd love to get a look at Dorsey's list.

Well I would be careful about that one. All too often we see an article and sometimes that article gets repeated coming from a single source that later turns out to be incorrect. I'm not saying it has no validity, but one would think if there was any traction to such a thing the story would be more wide spread than a single article somewhere.

That's why I asked... no one else seems to care that this may have happened if it did, so it makes me wonder if it actually happened as it was explained. It could have been a Green Bay article like some of the ones Grossi or MKC would write here making something out of nothing.

I thought it had more to do with him not getting the GM position. I seem to remember there may have been some issues between he and Brian Gutekunst ?

I feel like he's about to start yelling at the players to get off his lawn.

My guess is that he is there more to watch players. There was a LOT of talent in that game, Baker's former Center among many others.

If I remember correctly, I believe the poster was saying the packers went with Gutekunst over Wolf because Wolf wanted to fire McCarthy. I have no idea if any of this is true. The post is somewhere around here and it's possible I'm misremembering.

That and Dorsey was there during his time.. He knows what Mcarthey is all about

LOL He can dress up as the Grinch as long as he keeps getting us good players LOL

j/c

JC Tretter: Mike McCarthy would be a good fit as Browns head coach....

My completely uneducated read agrees. We have talked about the evolution of NFL offenses. Evolution sometimes leaves the previously successful behind. The McCarthy situation feels a little like that.

lol. Wow. By any standard of measurement McCarthy is a top five coach in this league. Maybe top three. You want to compare him to Andy Reid? How many Super Bowls has Reid won? To say the NFL has somehow passed McCarthy by just seems silly. He's an excellent play caller who knows what works. And like any play caller, his success is dependent on execution. His recent difficulties weren't formed in a vacuum. You guys are obviously entitled to your opinions, and I won't try to dissuade you from them, but nothing I've seen any of you put forward makes much sense to me at all, particularly given his body of work. I don't know who our HC will be, but I know we could, have, and might do one hell of a lot worse.

All with Aaron Rodgers are QB, no?

The years they were not in the top 10, I bet those were years Aaron Rodgers missed time.....

WE haven't had a QB either. I bet with a good QB, we have a better history of coaching then we do.

Well, the HOF QB and one of the best to have ever played the game actually was undermining him and his "great coaching". I wonder why? That says a lot about the type of coach he is. When you QB is undermining you openly and rolling his eyes and refusing to call your plays, it tells me that that QB doesn't respect you. I would take Aaron Rodgers opinion of McCarthy over yours M-F, sat and Sun for overtime.

also, Tretter his former C I believe said he wouldn't fit here.

I take that as, "nah man, you don't want that mess"

ummm, technically hes not in the league. A top 3 coach usually isn't unemployed. JMO

I'm taking McVay, Belichick, Payton, Tomlin, Reid, Zimmer, and Carroll over McCarthy. And those are the not close ones.

I think you have what Tretter said backwards. According to the following, he thinks McCarthy/Mayfield would be a good match.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2018/12...jc-tretter.html

No, he started with Farve. But what's your point? He had a good QB. So does Belichick, so did Walsh, in fact most NFL winners do.



No, I don't believe that's the case, but look it up if you want. Doesn't mean a thing. Not even sure what your point is. Again, he had a good QB. You seem to think that somehow diminishes his record. It doesn't.



Bet whatever you want. You have no way of knowing that. It's possible, but who knows? Are you contending that a good QB makes any coach great? We certainly know that's not true. Ask all the great QBs who never won a SB.



Yeah, okay. I don't really care what you would do. If you think Rogers undermining McCarthy somehow bolsters your position (whatever that is), fine. I won't argue your opinion. I won't agree with it either.



That's not what he said at all. He said he was a great coach, and a great man, and would fit if he came here. You could actually hear him say it in the video above your post. Now you just seem foolish.



He won't be for long. And you're reaching to bolster your position (again, whatever that is). You'd've been better off leaving this little nugget out altogether. JMO

A McCarthy/Mayfield pairing, would be like eating ghost pepper salsa on melba toast.

Super Bowl winning head coaches in jobs after they won the Super Bowl:

Joe Gibbs (Redskins, 2004-2007): 30-34
Mike Ditka (Saints, 1997-1999): 15-33
Bill Parcells (Patriots, 1993-1996, Jets, 1997-1999, Cowboys, 2003-2006): 176-95
George Seifert (Panthers, 1999-2001): 16-32
Jimmy Johnson (Dolphins, 1996-1999): 36-28
Mike Holmgren (Seahawks, 1999-2008): 86-74
Mike Shanahan (Redskins, 2010-2013): 24-40
Dick Vermeil (Chiefs, 2001-2005): 44-36
Jon Gruden (Raiders, 2018): 2-10

Combined Super Victories for the above years: 0

IMO we have our head coach. Stick with Williams.

This was my thought either. But I figure one day some day a previous winning super bowl HC will win a SB.

Holmgren and Parcells made it back to the super bowl. And I think Vermeil went to the super bowl lost and returned and won.

Someday a coach will probably win a super bowl with a second team. Why not with us?

It takes a lot for a Super Bowl winning coach to get fired. It's basically a lifetime contract if you want it. If he does get fired it probably means something went really, really wrong.

With Baker Mayfield as our QB I don't want someone who lacks innovation and aggressiveness. That's the MO on McCarthy.

That type of logic is fallacy. "It didn't happen before, so it won't happen now." I can never figure out why people use it. Seems self-evidently illogical.

I'd like a younger guy myself but isn't he exactly what most here have been clamoring for for many years?

Not me. I've been wanting a good head coach.

Not a fan of Mike’s .. dont want him ... if we do hire him ... i will hope he can get us the SB he brought to GB ... thats what i will hang my hat on ...

I cant argue with anything u say about the guy ... i just dont want him ... he did not do a good job in GB over the last 3 or 4 years ... many bad decisions like not going for it on 4th and 1 with like 3 mins to go when u ain’t stopped there O in the last 3 series ... that’s STUPID ... and i’m Not a go for it kinda guy ...

His record speaks for itself ... he could have done more .. i’m Gonna call my bud thats a packer fan and knows the game right now ... if hes not at a game he’ll answer and i’ll Get his take ...

Obviously a retread Super Bowl coach can have success. As devicedawg pointed out a couple even made it to the Super Bowl (Holmgren and Parcells). My point was that if a Super Bowl winning coach gets fired it probably means he did something horribly wrong. And if he did something horribly wrong then that probably means he is not a good coach anymore.

Help Wanted: An Offensive Mastermind to Work With a Franchise Quarterback

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/12/4/...aching-carousel

What were all the horrible things those coaches you named did wrong? Also, you're making huge assumptions with no basis in fact. Look, I get it, you have your opinion. You don't want him here, fine. But that's all there is to it. You have absolutely no idea if he'd be a good coach here or not. Neither do I. But he is a good coach, his record bears that out. So making it seem as if you have some particular insight beyond that is bulls#!%.

I wouldn't and won't argue with a thing you wrote, (though he did make the playoffs 3 & 4 years ago) and completely respect the way you stated it.

I'm woozy:



Also:





Hire a college head coach and if not that then at the very least a college offensive coordinator (like the Bears did with Mark Helfrich).

By "horribly wrong" I meant got bad. Some of them just retired and then came back.

You tend toward hyperbole.

I tend toward making jokes.

Aren't jokes supposed to be funny? <-- See, that's a joke.

Arians loves to push the envelop.

He is in attack mode most of the time. He knows the NFL game well.

He make be a perfect match for Baker.

Defensively my guess would be he would hire Pagano. He knows him well and respects him.

I am not a believer in chasing "geniuses". I have seen enough of them fail.

Arians would probably keep Freddie.

Who I am liking more and more.

I would be all in on Arians if it weren’t for the health issues. He can’t reliably be with the team for more than a year or two.

I favor Arians because he has has success in multiple places including here and because he WANTS it. He is of the age you know he is going to want to mentor his replacement too so you could finally have continuity as the man lightens his load all while making a his dream come true. It's a powerful motivation.

cfr..Arians is 66 yrs old and has had to deal with migraine headaches dating back to the 1980s and he is a (prostrate) cancer survivor, diagnosed in 2009.

I do believe that Arians might be a good short term choice but if the Browns are looking for a HC for the next 10 yrs, Arians is not our guy.

Researching Arians health history, I came across the following.. link

...(the writer commenting on Arians)..."Yet he must have felt cursed when one of his assistant coaches suffered a rare heart condition on the field during minicamp last June. Quarterbacks coach Freddie Kitchens was helped off the field by Carson Palmer and Drew Stanton when they saw him acting weak.

Kitchens stayed on the field, but a numbness in his leg convinced him to visit the trainers' room. What was thought to be dehydration and later a heart attack was diagnosed as an aortic dissection -- a tear in the inner layer of the aorta -- that needed a specialist to repair.

"It's a miracle he's here," Arians told the Arizona media after Kitchens returned to the team in August. "It's like nothing ever happened. I'm sure (his wife) Ginger doesn't feel that way, but it was a very trying time. Thank goodness he wasnâ&#128;&#153;t too hard-headed."

Coaching takes a toll on ones body and I hope the Browns consider a longterm hire if they can get the right guy.

jc

i want one of the harbaughs.

just my opinion. i think one of those two would be awesome coaching here.

Isn’t Jim is like 1-18 against ranked teams at Michigan, including 1-7 against his main rivals (MSU & OSU). Meaning, he can beat trash but can’t coach his way out of a wet paper bag when the other team is good. No thanks.

well he coached his way to 3 straight nfc title games and a superbowl. maybe the wet paper bag had his number.

Maybe he’s just not cut out for the Big10.

Health concerns aside, I like Arians.

What u see in Jim that u would like him? ...

Jim I would hate, John I wouldn't hate as much. I'm open to just about anyone else. I'm glad none of us are making the call.

Cris Carter Says Packers, Browns In Mix For Harbaugh: "I Got Good Sources Telling Me"
"He likes the quarterback situation" in Cleveland, Carter said.


https://971theticket.radio.com/articles/...rces-telling-me

please not us, please not us!!

jc...I'm not impressed with either one of the Harbaughs.

John is a defensive minded HC so he isn't going to help a whole lot toward developing Mayfield.

Jim was a QB at Mich. and had a 14 yr NFL career as a QB, drafted by the Bears in 1987. He was average or below as a starter and as Mich's headcoach, their passing numbers have gone down each year as Harbaugh now has the players he recruited.

IMO, Harbaugh's offensive strategy does not fit Mayfield.

jc...

I have yet to find a better prospect than Pete Carmichael, the Saints OC for the last 10 yrs, working with QB Drew Brees under HC Sean Payton.

He just seems like the type of coach who would be an asset, helping to develop Mayfield.

A D minded HC would have NO SHOT at developing a young QB ... i mean ... just imagine how good one Tom Brady would be if he didnt have BILLICHECK STIFLING HIS DEVELOPMENT ,, ,,,,

dim...so you put John Harbaugh in the same class as Belichick?

so much hate

Dim ... *L* ... good one ...

Bill Walsh ... Don Corryell ... yup ... Bill fits right in with that group being offensive genius hes known to be ...

John very well may know more bout O than Billy ... i know this is th first time i;ve ever seen anyone RAVE about Bills OFFENSIVE GENIUS ,,, ....

jc -

After listening to Baker's presser today I think I would put the odds of Lincoln as coach at 90%, the field 10%.

I don't know. I am thinking fresh. The game is changing. Baker is fresh and needs a fresh coach IMO. At least a fresh coordinator.

Again, I am not against keeping who we have. Williams provides the experience and Freddy provides the fresh.

For me, Lincoln Riley is the pipe dream. I don't there is any chance of it happening, but if it does then we got our long term coach for sure.

diamd...first, it's no big deal with me if we disagree.

My thinking goes like this..the Browns top priority should be, (imo) the development of their potential franchise QB. That is why I favor an offensive minded HC who has the experience developing QBs.

A defensive coach is not the Browns top priority as long as they have Greg Williams. That does not mean that I believe Gregg Williams is the best defensive coach in the NFL or that the Browns might do better than GW.

But, hiring a defensive coach to develop your QB...few, if any defensive coaches have that ability. Even Belichick utilized Charlie Weis (oc/qb coach) to work with Brady in the first 4 or 5 years of Brady's career.

Lincoln Riley, who Mayfield is pimping for, is rather light on experience to named a HC in the NFL, imo. The Browns could pull it off if they had a DC with some HC experience to help Riley. It sounds as if Gregg Williams "might be ok" with such a setup.

Hopefully Dorsey will be able to find the right guy.

I am not a huge Gregg Williams fan, but if we can somehow hire a different non-Gregg Williams head coach and keep Gregg Williams, that is a coup. Just having the continuity in place would be huge, although I would worry about power dynamics among the players. It would be weird to have someone who used to be in charge still in the building, but not in charge. I think there is a very small chance Gregg Williams is back with the team next year.

I don't agree that a coach from the defensive side can't help a QB.


For that matter, Greg Williams was a QB in college.


It just comes down to student and pupil. If they connect, it works.

It's more about keeping the offense fresh and tailoring it to the skills of your QB. Gregg Williams is not/shouldn't be that involved with the offense.

LOL!

Going younger and more innovative is a league-wide trend so I'm not sure how many teams are going to be interested in Greg Williams as a coach. I'm guessing not many, though we'll see how the rest of the season plays out.

Williams as DC can work as long as everyone is on the same page. That is to say, the new coach wants him here and Williams understands that he's the defensive coordinator or maybe even DC + assistant head coach, or something along those lines.

You can't have a situation like we had with Haley earlier in the year, where he was angling to take over for Hue. Hue had his difficulties as the head coach (understatement of the week, though it's still only Wednesday), but he was still the head coach and deserved that respect. Haley should have known better.

I don't see Williams as that guy.. seems like he's a guy who loves and wants to teach football. Assuming that's the case, then I don't see why they can't all be adults and make something work. Of course, he's done a nice job as interim head coach and deserves a serious interview for retaining that position. Ultimately though, it's likely we will get a head coach from outside the building.

There's still a lot of football to be played and a lot of things to evaluate. Let's see what he can do with the defense and rest of the team these next four games.

I listened to Arians today. He was asked about coaching the Packers with Rodgers.

He reiterated "I have no interest in coaching the Packers; the only job I have an interest in is the Browns."

So cool to hear that.

He would keep Freddie and could be a good mentor to him. Help prepare him to be a head coach.

Arians is a trip. Interesting guy. He has done a lot with some very good quarterbacks.

I would be on board with Arians.

I'm just thinking out loud here...When a Coach who is / was considered to be a good Offensive minded coach...Takes a Head Coaching job and does not have a OC-coordinator on his staff and fails miserably... The talk is that the HC should of had a OC to help with play calling duties because the job of the HC is to over see the whole team and help with both sides of the ball.

That being said..In cases of where a good Offensive minded HC had a OC and the Offense struggled the OC generally is the first to lose his job.

Now in the case of the Browns... this scenario has played out... Although both the supposedly good / great minded Offensive OC and HC lost there jobs due to poor Offensive play.

Then comes along the Defensive minded DC who takes over as the HC and has the Offense including the rookie QB playing better then ever... Arguably the fact would point to the HC allowing the OC to do his job to improve the Offense so the Intern HC could over see the team and get everyone on board and playing with some sense of urgency to win.

I guess I don't yet get the understanding that a Offensive minded or Defensive minded HC is the one who will make or break a young QB. Isn't it the OC and QB's coaches who are mostly responsible for the development of the QB ?

As of now I see Kitchens..Zampese and Saunders doing a fairly nice job with developing the young QB.

As of now I see Williams doing a fairly good job with the team as a whole.

The thought is...the Browns bring in a good Offensive minded HC to help with the development of the young QB... So as he is doing that..what happens to the rest of the team ?

I guess I just don't get it...I just want a HC who is going to make all sides of the team good...not just a QB.

Not only is there a chance of it happening, I'm doubling down and making it 95% Lincoln, 5% the field.

Bookmark this. It's happening.

I believe he's letting the Offensive coaches do there job as he's doing his as a HC..

That's pretty much what people said about the last HC.. concentrate on the HC duties.

Does Oklahoma have a good Defense ? Because if Lincoln Riley can only improve the Offense and the rest of the parts fall apart.. It's going to be another year of hell in the AFCN.. Where Defenses help with winning.

yall don't want this on the sideline?



yall not about that life.

We must have this guy. lol

Even his brother John says his brother has no friends.

Jim is jerk plain and simple.

Not interested at all.

I think he looks like a little whiner... look at his face before he throws his fit...

I swear it looks like he knows he's going to Michigan and loses to Urban over and over and....you get the point

I have a really strong feeling that it's going to be Lincoln Riley.

I basically feel the opposite. I think there is a very small chance he leaves Oklahoma for any NFL job.

I said this before we hired Hue Jackson and I'll say it again now. I'd leave no stone unturned finding the perfect coach. Specifically there are a ton of college coaches I'd look at. Last time I said I would look at Matt Wells of Utah State (he just got hired at Texas Tech). This time around I'd be very interested in Seth Littrell from North Texas, Matt Rhule from Baylor, Jeff Brohm from Purdue (he just signed an extension), and Kyle Whittingham from Utah. All of those guys will eventually have big time jobs. Hire them before you never have the chance to hire them. If you can't/don't want to hire them then interview them and pick their brain.

I would agree with you.

I think it's gotta be real close to zero percent that our next HC is Lincoln Riley. I don't think he's going anywhere.

I was high on the Defilippo and/or Schwartz possibility but I have to think McCarthy is the potential favorite with perhaps Toub or Bieniemy as possibilities.

The Vikings might fire DeFilippo. Zimmer has been grumbling about him a bit.

If we were going to hire a defensive coach I'd take Jim Schwartz. I just don't see it in the cards.

McCarthy is so milquetoast. There are so many coaches I'd rather have.

Indeed. I'd put his chances of being the Browns HC next year at less than 1%.

Dorsey will not hitch his future to that wagon.

This is Dorsey's baby and McCarthy is definitely not the guy. I'd almost be surprised if he got an interview.

Furthermore, Arians pleas to coach the team reek of desperation and are a turn off. Hard pass.

I am one of the least informed posters when it comes to knowing potential coaches, so I'm not speaking from knowledge of Pete Carmichael, but more from knowledge of how the world works generally.

I think that someone who has stayed in the same position for 10 years may be someone who has found their niche. Has he interviewed for other HC jobs before this? Is he a guy who innovates or someone who implements? Is the success of the Saints more about Peyton and Brees with Carmichael more of a facilitator?

If he has been an integral part of the the concept and execution of the Saints offense and has reached a point where he is ready and able to take the next step, then by all means, he should be in the mix for a HC job. But if he is more of a guy who is good at making someone else's ideas come to life, then maybe he isn't who we should be looking at. And I mean that generally, not specifically about Carmichael. I don't want to waste this golden opportunity on someone like Romeo Crennel who is a great DC, but failed as a HC. Some people are just not made for the top dog role.

This, please.

I don't know Jim Harbaugh personally, so I may be off on my impression of him. But just going off my own impression of Jim Harbaugh, it seems like he and Baker would have some real personality clashes along the way.

There is zero chance McCarthy will be the coach. Zero.

Once Riley becomes coach, I will have my device/Baker moment.

I think McCarthy is exactly what Dorsey is looking for. And you can't argue with his record...10 times in the playoffs in 13 seasons?

I don't think Jim Harbaugh is appropriate because wasn't part of the problem in San Francisco that he wanted more control?

I like the assessment of Carmichael by 84 also. I'm not sure it's 100% accurate, but I like to think it makes sense. I get the feeling he's not on our radar.


I'm sure Dorsey has already talked to McCarthy. It would be foolish for him not to, right?

At this point I'd say McCarthy is the unequivocal favorite for the job. However, we have a long way to go in this process.

Lincoln Riley aside....Baker Mayfield is going to play a huge part in this decision, either directly or indirectly. Mayfield said he learned that an NFL coach needs respect first when it comes to working with NFL players making millions (I thought another shot against Hue) and that will be an important factor for anyone coming to Cleveland. I think Dorsey will need to find a coach that Mayfield will respect because the wagon is clearly attached to Baker for the foreseeable future and what he thinks, feels, says, how he acts/repsonds will carry a ton of weight.

I think that is why Riley is such a hot name, because clearly Baker has a solid relationship with Riley. I have no clue how Riley would respond to the NFL, but he would have one box checked- instant respect from your franchise QB. And obviously Baker has the respect of his teammates so the ripple down affect and buy-in could happen rather quickly. But again, I don't know how Riley would translate as an effective NFL HC.

Is Winston Moss a viable candidate? Don't know much about him but remember him as a player. Just following the Green Bay trail here. Does it seem like anyone that crosses Rogers is being shown the door?

I would be shocked if Riley becomes the HC. Not disappointed, but shocked.

This is pretty much it.

Baker was lying through his teeth in his presser yesterday when he said he would have no impact on the decision. I thought his body language gave it away. This was after 30 seconds of effusive praise for Riley (and yes, a shot at Hue).

I'm sure Dorsey and Baker have talked about this already. Dorsey being on the OU sideline two weeks in a row was no coincidence. The beautiful thing about Dorseys position is he can do pretty much whatever he wants and doesn't have to answer to the media for it since he won't talk to them again until the end of the season. He can be less discreet. Dorsey and Baker are dropping all kinds of hints.

Unless he was there to scout players and use it as an effective smoke screen.

Baker has an impact, but I doubt he has a say.

Highly highly doubt Riley will leave Oklahoma for Cleveland. I could be eating crow for months because I put the likelihood on this at less than 1%.

J/C

I forget who mentioned it above, but an offensive minded head coach vs. a defensive minded head coach is something to consider. If I'm reading that poster's words correctly, the offensive minded head coach might be more inclined to want a bigger share of the offensive play calling, duties, etc. I'm thinking a defensive minded HC would more than likely hire an OC and let him do his thing. I like that possibility better!

Also, many are dismissing Williams, saying that Dorsey will want to hire his guy. If after all the interviews that will be conducted, Williams is hired, then it would just show that Williams IS his guy. Just because Williams is already here, doesn't mean that Dorsey won't decide to hire him at the end of this process.

Isnt Nick Saban a D minded coach? He seems to have pretty good QBs each year.

And didn't Harbaugh have Luck at Standford? He turned out decent. Also, it seems to me your OC and QB coach have more to do with the development of your QB than the HC.

Honestly, I am not a Harbaugh fan, but the guy is a good coach and we could and have done worse.

Don't know why you would be eating crow. Nobody knows who we are going to hire, it's all guesswork at this point.

It certainly is and at this point I don't feel anyone has a really good educated guess. My only exclusion, and it's just an opinion, is Lincoln Riley. He just lacks the experience I think anyone would actually need to be strongly considered a legitimate NFL HC candidate. With only two years actual HC experience it seems doubtful to me anyone would actually jump him up to being an NFL HC.

If two years of head coaching experience excludes Lincoln Riley, then doesn’t it also exclude every coordinator who has not been a head coach? Also, what is the cutoff for having enough experience? If a person is ready to do a job, they are ready regardless of experience.

There is no way McCarthy is not in the mix.

First off he is a respected winning NFL head coach.

Second Dorsey knows McCarthy well from their seven seasons together in Green Bay, and Dorsey's two right-hand men in assistant general manager Eliot Wolf and Vice President of Player Personnel Alonzo Highsmith worked with him even longer, for 12 and 13 years respectively.

He will most likely be the first guy called for an interview.

You want to work with a person you know and respect. If you already have a strong working relationship why go to an unknown?

Actually if you actually think that the systems and recruiting in college verses working within and NFL system are anything similar to each other, Houston we have a problem.

There have been some great NCAA HC's who were highly sought after that fell flat on their faces in the NFL. With far more experience than Riley. We are a destination at this juncture that I think many candidates will find appealing. Out of all the candidates that will be available, I don't think Riley's resume will stack up.

I'm not sure how the working relationship between Dorsey, Wolf and Highsmith was with McCarthy at Green Bay. If their interaction and working relationship was positive, I think McCarthy would be the top candidate.

You were no on Baker.
You were yes on Hue.
And now you're going no on Riley.

You will be 0-3 for the last year on major Browns decisions.

And before you get your panties in a bunch I'm just having a little fun.

My Riley prediction can turn out to be complete bunk, but I'm feeling good about it. 95% Riley, 5% the field.

And something for everyone to consider when thinking of a head coach when you are weighting factors...its probably 70% Baker, 30% everything else.

The key for Riley is whether or not he has a plan, with assistants in mind, or not.

If not, I have a hard time seeing him being a head coach in the NFL this year.

I just want to know where I can get 19:1 on my money by taking the field.

I'm not even greedy.. I'll settle for 10:1

Well he thinks since he has one year of getting a few things right that means something. It's an epidemic.

Good thing there is an interview process and it’s nkt just a resume contest.

Don't know for sure.

But one could speculate that it must have been ok given the time frame involved; that if the relationship was sour it would have ended earlier.

He may talk to him, but I'd be surprised if McCarthy was a serious consideration.

I'd be floored if he was the hired as the HC.

To me the best reason to keep Williams is that he may have are longterm solution right here in Freddie and greg Williams kid

I think there is a .08% chance Gregg is named the HC. If anything, it would be Kitchens in order to keep him around long term. Consider this as the reason why....

Yes, resume's mean nothing. Experience means nothing. You're right.

I don't know if I agree totally with this. Even a young OC isn't necessarily "here to stay" if he does well. Look how young a guy like McVay is. On paper, the best way to keep Kitchens is to hire Arians and have Kitches as the HC in waiting. I'm not saying I'm for or against this, but it makes sense if Kitchens is a guy the Browns don't want to lose.

I would agree... that's a very odd premise by Anthony Lima... I don't agree that Kitchens is gone and a young OC hire is here to stay. It's foolishness.

And I said that where?

But isn't Kitchens the young OC candidate? Or am I missing something here?

For better context, he said it with the premise being naming Gregg Williams the HC. The point being, your best shot at retaining Kitchens long term would be to name him HC rather than keeping him as OC next year and risk losing him the following year, assuming the Browns offense exploded and he became a hot candidate.

What a dumb ass question .... please ....

The3re coordinators WHERE? ...

Your BRUTAL at times ... u cant bOIL THIS DOWN TO ONE SIMPLE STATMENT ...

To me u may as well be lying when u pull crap like this ...

MISLEADING QUESTION on its best day ....

to any one who replied to this crap butt question .... ok ... now let me go see who i just peed off ... U DESERVE IT ...

Just as i deserve whatever replies i get ... *L* ...

And that will be one of the most informal interviews EVER ...

He has to be in the mix right now ... if King John had to pick today i would wager my money on it being Mike ...

As you’ve said ... he will go through the process ... who knows where the needle lands ... Mike has some built in trust and there will be no getting to know u period ...

Its gonnabe interesting and fun to watch ...

If we hire Riley ... its gonna be real hard to convince me that wasn’t the thief ... REAL HARD ...

It just makes no sense from any STANDPOINT other than he is an O innovator in college ...

NOTHING ELSE on his resume CHECKS ANY OTHER BOX ...

Good Luck with that one ...

Sig wager on Riley ...

Statments are for losers.

There is the Baker connection.


Baker is a big part of this. In fact it kind of boils down to: who would work best with Dorsey and Mayfield.

*L* ....

I just said i may have to find a new saying ...

What else u got along those lines? ...

In my best Hue Jackson voice, "Absolutely".

The league is changing and Dorsey seem to be a young thinker. He is in to analytics more than some think. He drafted a couple of QB's who didn't fit the mold as far as size and most people boo hooed as maybe 2nd round picks.

You also have to consider that many NFL teams have traveled to Norman to talk with Riley and pick his brain. They are going for a reason. I have never been to Norman, and it is probably a nice place, but it isn't exactly at the top of many peoples list as a top leisure travel destination.


I am not one who places the NFL on a pedestal and thinks college coaches are minor league coaches compared to NFL coaches. Coaching is coaching. The only difference is in the NFL all of the players who make the team were the top players on their college team.

A good coach can coach in any league.

I took this to mean that if we hire a young OC as our new HC then he would be here to stay.

I don't feel being a HC for two years lends itself to a favorable outcome with analytics.

Don't take me wrong. I am not promoting that. I am just saying he was a QB and understands the position, so it is possible for him to connect with a QB, or more on point, possible for some other coach to connect.

It doesn't have to be a offensive coach. Belicheck has always been on the defensive side. He and Brady seem to be doing just fine.


It's not so much about the head coach and which side of the ball he has more understanding. It's more about the coordinators and position coaches the head coach hires.

Head coach is a little less about actual coaching. It's about the vision he has for the team and then managing the various position group coaches to attain that vision.


Hue was a bad CEO. Bellicheck is a good CEO.

I think all the Riley talk is more because he was Baker's coach and they are tight. I can't see him as a top choice as a NFL HC. Maybe as an OC I could see him an option, but I doubt he would leave OK for that.

I like the connection Freddie has with Baker. I think Baker believes in him, that is huge. Letting Baker continue in the same offense would also be huge IMO.

As for Williams, I want to see what happens for the rest of the year. I'm not all that sold on his defense. His players play hard for him, and the are held accountable, but his defense worries me. Top running teams beat us with ease, while no name RBs have career days against us. It could be personnel, but the scheme leaves huge areas of field empty once the back breaks the line of scrimmage.

That being said, our LBs are slow, and that could be a factor. If the team wins two of the last four, I would have to consider him more for the thought of Kitchens remaining more than his defense.

If Arians would keep both, that would be what I want. Continuity and a good leader at the top. Plus Kitchens and Arians have a history.

If we have to replace the defensive coordinator, I want Schwartz.

I like Bill Schwartz, I like Williams more.


The reality is we need a stud DT, better OLB's, and another corner.

My brother used to live in the area years ago. Not much to do there, but the women are absolutely beautiful and friendly.

I’m glad to have gone through puberty in the area.

Aint much in Lawton, OK, I can tell you that.

There’s Mt. Scott and if you enjoy mounting Scott, more power to you.

Wow.

Why is a Beach Boys song going through my head? (They keep their boyfriends warm at night.)

Honestly - 2 more good wins from the team this year and I have Williams as the overwhelming favorite and Kitchens as a shoe in that can't leave unless he's offered a promotion on a different team.

Panthers, Broncos and Ravens are all good tests. Winning two against div rivals Bengals is always tough regardless of how they look on paper.

I don't think there was any expectation at the time they fired Hue that Williams was the long term solution ... but the timing was such it's given Kitchens and Williams enough of a sample size to see whether the immediate improvement was a temporary boost or a legit reaction to some discipline, focus and structure. (you know - 'coaching')

I'm not on board with Williams getting the keys to the castle whatever happens the rest of the way - but I am 100% behind rooting and hoping he does well and continues what he started. I'm much closer to being convinced of Kitchens.

Even with all the resources we have, our D was never sound.Problem with GW is that he like fashy/highlights defenses, not sound D with good fundamentals.

After bounty gate,I doubt GW will ever get a chance to be HC...

Yup. I like how the team has been performing.

But there's other coaches out there. Gregg Williams as our DC is one thing. As our Head Coach is another. He's done a decent job so far this year, but Bounty Gate pretty much excludes him in my book of ever being Head Coach on this team.

All I needed to hear was the audio of that to know exactly what kind of guy he is. I don't want him representing my team.

If a new coach comes in and decides to keep Gregg on as DC, that's fine. I like how Williams uses our D-Line. I know there's arguments on here about 4-3 base defense verses hybrid. But, we go out there with two DT's and two DE's. That's what I like. LB's and secondary can be more interchangeable. But I like the way he uses our D-Line.


But I do not want Gregg Williams to be our head coach going into the future. And if he can't deal with that, he can hit the bricks at the end of the season too.


Oh, and I like Freddie Kitchens and how this offense has adapted. I think he definitely deserves to be a OC in this league. But, I definitely don't want Williams as our Head Coach next year. If that means losing Kitchens as well, it is what it is

I thought he already did with the Bills?

Keeping Williams because he had a nice finish to the season... I feel like we've seen this movie before...


Let Dorsey tune into his list and get us the guy who will be on the same page and lead us into the future.

He coached the Bills before Bountygate.

Here's an audio recording of Williams during Bountygate Season with the Saints. The one where they won the Super Bowl, while delivering late hit over and over again on Brett Favre and Kurt Warner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhnn9kbqQUA .
Listen to 2:30 and later. That's enough for me. That's not who I want to be head coach of our football team. Period.........


I'm willing to accept him as our DC. But this man should never be the Head Coach of a franchise again. This year is an exceptional circumstance because Hue/Haley was fired mid-season. But at the end of the year he should be DC or below. Just how I strongly feel.

The thing about GW's Defense is very similar to Pettine's Defense in the way that you need a very talented secondary in order to pull it off...The one area where injuries have hit the most. It didn't help that they traded away some DT's that were big contributors in stopping the run game.

If the Browns were concerned about BountyGate, they would never have hired Gregg Williams before the 2017 season.

I disagree. There's a big difference between a head coach and a coordinator. The Head Coach is the face of a team. They are also the leader of the team. They are in charge of the day to day team operations. A coordinator works for the Head Coach.

There's certainly a difference. I do not want Williams to set the standard for the Browns. I want him to enforce the standard that the Head Coach sets for the Browns.

I was not a Williams fan, but he has done a good job setting a new set of standards for the team. The team has played much better since he took over.

He is the coach of a team I haven't felt this good about in many years. I would have no problem at all if GW was kept on as HC.

I look at it this way; I trust Dorsey. If he thinks GW is the best choice moving forward, then I'm good with that. If he thinks someone else is a better choice, I'm good with that too.

If Bountygate disqualifies him from being a permanent HC, why would you be ok with him being defensive coordinator or interim head coach? The responsibilities as interim head coach are basically the same, albeit on a shortened time frame. As DC, he's actively involved in teaching and motivating the players.

I didn't listen to the clip this time around though I have a pretty good memory of what he said. It definitely crossed the line but he learned from it and moved on.

That's pretty much where I'm at too. I think the next head coach will be from outside the building. If it's Williams or someone else from within (can't see it being Kitchens despite some suggestions about that), that's ok too.

Projecting who will be a great head coach in this league is already very difficult. We see some team owners, who have been successful in other fields, struggle with it mightily. As a fan who isn't part of the interview process, even more so.

I have no issues with his past.

1. don't tell me they were the only team doing that stuff. He learned it from somewhere.

2. I surely think he learned his lesson on being caught.

3. If it would get us a SuperBowl after the what we have endured, bounty up playas!

My thing is the window is too small for me to arrive at such a conclusion. From what I've seen to this point I would agree. But I'm convinced that I need to let the season play out before I can be firm with that opinion.

Going from the worst to averageish is a huge upgrade.

For better or worse, they are responding to Williams and Kitchens. Baker seems to have an excellent relationship with both. Same with other players. They seem to relate to Both of those guys.

There is no question that for the first time in a long time, we seem to be able to rise to the occasion. We did hit a buzz saw last week, but damn, Houston is that good. No shame in losing to a team that stacked.

We have 4 more games.. I think it will become clear if Williams and Kitchens should remain in their current roles...

But, so far, I like what I'm seeing.

I'm not saying GW would be my first pick, but I don't believe Bountygate disqualifies him. First, he's paid his penance. He was caught and punished and, in all likelihood, learned his lessons. Secondly, he happened to be the one who got caught, not the person who invented the practice. He's an old school coach from an old school coaching tree. That is learned behavior. He just happened to be caught executing that type of football with a recording device in an era where the way things are done are changing. The fact that he was caught on tape doesn't set him apart from a myriad of coaches who were guilty but not caught. Finally, if he earns the right to coach through performance and through the decision making process, then he deserves the job.

Please note: I'm not defending the action, and think it is good for football that he was caught. It helped move football out of the dark ages. It's a violent sport to begin with, violence outside of the rules should not be tolerated. The tape is hard to listen to and the behavior is despicable. I'm glad it was exposed.

JMHO

Fair post.

It reminds me of what I've wanted to see from the Browns over the years-- more toughness, attitude, and physicality. That's not to be confused with dirty football though.. that I'm not a fan of.

Just for perspective ......

Cleveland Browns: Can Gregg Williams beat the odds and be a success as interim coach? – Terry Pluto | cleveland.com
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2018/10...erry-pluto.html

Williams proved to be an elite defensive coordinator with the New Orleans Saints (2009-11). He was suspended in 2012 for the “Bountygate” scandal, where players were paid for knocking opponents out of games.

No defense of Williams. But he hardly was the only NFL coach who had that kind of scheme going. I’m glad he was suspended and it was exposed, because it will at least drive that stuff deep underground. Football has enough violence without adding the elements of a bounty.

JC to everyone:

1st) Just because Williams paid his penance, doesn't mean he deserves a promotion to Head Coach. There's only 32 coaches in the NFL.

2nd) There's a big difference between Head Coach and Coordinator. Head Coach is the leader of the football team. Coordinator works for the Head Coach. This is why i've been okay with Williams as D-Coordinator. He is not the leader of the Browns. He simply ran the defense for Hue Jackson.

3rd) His move to Head Coach for this season simply happened because Hue and Haley were fired. I work on ships. If the Captain dies, the Chief Mate assumes the role of Captain. But that doesn't mean they're Captain, that just means they're acting in that role until the new Captain comes in (or they're given the permanent battlefield promotion).



I guess I disagree with a lot of folks on here. But that audio was too much for me. I do not want Gregg Williams being Head Coach of this team next year. That audio talking about hitting guys with concussions in the head, attacking players knees who have suspect ACLs, and so on, is despicable. He might have done his penance and deserves to be able to coach in this league, but that doesn't mean that i have to accept the idea that he should be our head coach.

Cause that's just something that i can't support

Agreed...maybe not for the same reasons you have, but I don't see him as our HC next year.

No one is saying that. What I was staring is that if he earns it, and wins the job through the process, then Bountygate shouldn't or wouldn't preclude it.



I believe we all understand the difference between HC and DC, but to cite that as some sort of difference for having him on the team seems like a very fine, and convenient distinction. Sort of like he can be my son's friend but he can't date my daughter.



I think we're all dialed in on how and why it happened. The analogy is interesting though in that he could get the permanent battlefield promotion. Not saying he will, but he could.



So if he did get the battlefield promotion, what would you do?

just clickin'


Ya know, that was pretty much 7 years ago. I'm not sure if anyone is aware of this, but that is a LONG time ago. There are felony prison sentences shorter than that, lol. I think folks are holding onto grudges over things they weren't a part of a little too tightly.

All that matters, IMO, is how he performs in the current role. His past does not matter to me just as his record nine years ago doesn't matter to me. It is what he is doing here, now, with this roster and this staff.

There is also nothing in that which says he doesn't deserve a promotion to Head Coach.

You seem to be taking the stance that the Chief Mate should never become a Captain because of something he did a long, long time ago. But, if the Chief Mate got busted down and served his time and worked his way back up, why wouldn't he be eligible?

I'll say that he might be professionally eligible (in the eyes of the league), but in my eyes, I want a candidate that didn't do this.


I guess I'll be the odd one out that disagrees with most. But i can't get that stuff out of my head. Maybe because I was a big Kurt Warner fan and that 2010 Saints Defense pretty much ended Warner's Career.

I remember when it was happening (Warner and Favre getting hit needlessly in those playoffs), and thinking that the Saints were dirty. Afterwards, finding out that this was their tactic and they were creating money pools to hurt players, really upset me.

I lost all respect for Gregg Williams. Still don't respect him. If a Head Coach wants to hire him on as DC, that's fine. They're responsible for him though (although, clearly that didn't work for Sean Payton, who served a year suspension for Bountygate).

To not account for what he did 7 years ago seems foolish to me. And i'm not going to ignore it. He might have "learned" from it. But it still shows the type of guy he is.


I'm sticking to my guns on this one. I'm happy with the way the team is going. I like Kitchens as our OC. I don't want Gregg Williams as our Head Coach though. There's too many other candidates without something like this in their pasts.

Same thing I'm doing now. Complain. I root for this team. Not the players or the coaches. Gregg Williams as Head Coach won't change anything, other than me saying that I disagree with this decision. I don't like Gregg Williams.

I guess no different than politics. I didn't vote for our President. I can't stand our President (and i'll leave it at that). But i'm still an Involved American Citizen.



Sure, he did his time. And seven years ago was a long time ago. Long enough that i'm okay with him being our DC. But I don't like the idea of someone like that steering our ship.



All depends on what he did Purp. If you murdered someone, should you be upset when your aren't being considered for being the Pope? A little drastic, but i'm going there

What i dont understand is ... dude made a major mistake ... a major mistake ... ONE ...

Thats it ... no 2nd chance ... after he served his punishment he now has a lower celieng on his job opportunities FOREVER ...

I thought we gave folks 2nd chances in this country ... i think EVERYONE short of pre-planned murderers deserves a 2nd chance ....

The more i think about the less I want Gregg as HC ... i’m With bone on this one in that ...

His D philosophy is to put pressure on the QB ... that means heavy blitzing ... well he “tweeks: it a smidge depending on personal .. like Pepp playing in the lake last year and Williams blitzing while laying the CB’s 10 yards off and the middle of the field wide open ...

That doesnt even make sense ... why u gonna pressure a guy and give him 3 options within the first 1.2 seconds ... i get it ... your keeping them in front of u so they have to run more plays ... but thats just dumb ...

That was just an example ... his D can be extremely affective IF and ONLY IF:

- u have the talent ... it takes 2 really good “press” coverage cb’s and some dudes that can rush the passer ... not DUDE ... dudeS ...

- an O that can score points ... his D is much more affective with the lead ...

And he doesnt “tweek” his system to fit his personal near good enough IMO ...

At first i thought maybe HC with him bringing in a DC ... problem there is he’s gonna hire a DC with his philosophy ... not my style ...

Good Luck Mr. Dorsey ... U GOT THIS ... i hope ...

I do that too! Best of DT, an honest post.



Yes, that is reason enough to complain, too.

....

I think Gregg Williams is or should be a candidate to stay head coach because I think he gives the Browns the best chance, (or a chance) to win.

Whoever gives the Browns the best chance to win, that's the coach I want.

Cutting a dozen Veterans, and half a dozen assistant coaches, re shaping offensive and defensive schemes,

And having to Watch EX Browns Still playing for just about every other team in the NFL, including playoff teams, That's not what I want!

Just my 2cp.

As DC, he is much closer to the D players, much more so than the HC. To me a HC is a "team" coordinator, and usually does not have the same relationship, or as close, as the coordinators and position coaches, aside from positions like QB where the QB/HC are basically tied at the hip as far as futures.

Oh, I believe in second chances and all that. But this is something different. It's not a second chance at being a D-Coordinator, it's getting a promotion to Head Coach.



And it just means lower ceiling of job opportunities forever with me. Personally, I don't own a team. Don't run a team. Don't hire coaches. I sit here on the board and bicker about the Browns with the rest of you guys.

Personally, Bountygate is enough for me. I don't want him as Head Coach. Clearly, everyone doesn't agree. I imagine the same is in the NFL with teams. Some teams have him crossed off their list, some don't.


As for his defenses, like you, i'm not the biggest fan. But i'm so sick of the three down defensive linemen look that it's seen as a major plus in my book. I don't want a new defensive coordinator who comes in and installs a defense that doesn't call Myles Garett and Emmanuel Ogbah Defensive Ends

j/c:

Or promoted him. BountyGate is a non-issue with me for the most part. We have certainly turned blind eyes to other stuff here. Like him as a DC.

I will trust Dorsey on this one especially. After all, I do not need to like the hire at all (although it does make being a fan easier). We can find The Coach, I trust. Great players help that along.

This concerns me: Who replaces Dorsey after this Magical Mystery Tour plays out?

Hopefully, Dorsey will be the one constant, staying on as long as he wants.

...for the Browns, Dorsey is the man behind the curtain, building a Super Bowl caliber franchise.

I believe the team is responding to Baker moreso than Williams and Kitchens.

j/c

I want GW to stay on for some semblance of continuity AND he's clearly righted a tilting ship...but...I want more for Kitchens to stick with Baker...and I don't care for GW's defense all too often. I don't have a horse in this race...but I do have a jockey I really like.

your gay not that there is anything wrong with that.