ok, so i made the mid season review comparing the first round rookie QB's, and now that the season is over with, not much has changed.
Baker Mayfield is by far the best of the class overall, and stat-wise, it isn't close. Lamar jackson is the only rookie QB in the playoffs, and based on success, is the best of the class.
Like last time, because of the modern era of QB's being mobile and picking up more yards rushing, i will include rushing stats, which includes first downs made from rushes. lets begin:
Baker Mayfield
Games played: 14. games started: 13. W-L: 7-7 (im including the jets win), 3rd AFC North
631 rushing yards, 7.1 per rush, 8 TDs, 5 fumbles, 1 lost, 41 first downs _______________________
So, based on individual play, my ranking would be:
Mayfield Jackson Darnold Allen Rosen
based on success:
Jackson Mayfield Allen Darnold Rosen
based on offensive talent around the QB:
Mayfield Jackson Darnold Allen Rosen
Rosen easily had the worst talent to work with. Allen had crap talent and an injured McCoy, Darnold had a lack of talent everywhere but average players, Jackson has a run heavy based team, and Mayfield had the best overall talent to work with.
Baker mayfield, Lamar Jackson, and Josh Allen flashed the most talent this season. Hopefully Baker and Lamar gave us a 10 year preview of things to come when those two go head 2 head, because that last game was something glorious to watch. Darnold....look imma refrain from being to hard on him, but i wasn't impressed. he showed some ability, but overall just...eh.
Rosen i felt the worst for, because he basically had nothing. worst o line in the league, worst receiving core in the league, least coaching stability.
anyways, we already know its gonna take another 2-3 years to properly evaluate the QB class, but this is just to talk about how they did this season, and what the future possibly holds.
Not much changed in my mind this year ... EACH SITUATION is so different .... its so hard to compare ... my thoughts ... based off what i’ve seen nothing has changed in who i think has a shot andwho doesn’t ...
Pre-draft i wanted Darnold but was fine with either Bake or Rosen .. they ALL had questions ... Bake grew on me as his questions were height and things he couldn’t control .. like we knew he was accurate throwing to wide open guys ... could he do it in fla windows ...
By draft day i still favored Darnold but Bake had moved slightly ahead of Rosen ... and Darnold was just slightly ahead of Bake ...
This year CHANGED NOTHING IN MY MIND ...
Allen and Jackson cant hit the broad side of a barn .. there not QB’s IMO ... i still see no long term future on either of them ...
Darnold’s play improved dramiticallly from week 1 to week 17 ... thats what u want from a rookie ... his team was depleted with injuries and he still improved ... that’s what u wanna see in your rookie QB’s ...
Rosen looked like a rookie on a really bad team ... hope he learned a lot as opposed to getttin shell shocked ... NO CLUE how to gauge his rookie year ...
Bake STUDDED out for a rookie ... it was the best rookie performance I may have ever seen ...
HE HAS FLAWS and plenty to learn .... but with his work ethic combined with the bag of chips on his shoulder and his talent ... SKY IS VIRTUALLY THE LIMIT HERE ...
I think all five of these QBs are going to end up being pretty good. They all flashed at times. I worry about Rosen the most because he took an inordinate amount of big-time hits and that is not good for such a young qb. He might end up becoming damaged goods.
I said on another thread [we were talking about RBs] that this rookie class is one of the best I have ever seen. In fact, I can't think of a class where there were so many good rookies.
I would order them the exact same for long-term projections. Can't get past Allen's lack of accuracy.
Darnold is a bit of an enigma to me. I didn't think he was all that impressive in college. I actually thought he was more impressive in the pros. He strikes me as a slightly better Tannehill, but I can see why others think the ceiling is much higher.
There's a chance Mayfield and Darnold could own the AFC for the next 10 years.
Too early to tell how it will shake out because of all the variability in each teams situation and talent. I love what Baker brings to the team and am glad he is our QB ...
The one thing in these stats that jumps off the page at me is Josh Allen's 52.8% completion %. I didn't want the Browns to pick him because you just don't see QB's become more accurate in the NFL than they were in college - and while the kids arm and athleticism are incredible and while he has some highlight reel throws, that accuracy is a major red flag.
Going to be an interesting few years in the NFL with this draft class of QBs and seeing how they all progress.
Lamar is unique. My take from the first few times I watched his college tape was: a team had to buy into what he is and commit to that offensively.
I give Harbough credit he has built the offense around Lamar's skills. The question that arises is; Can it be sustained? Cam has taken a beating and he is huge.
Darnold has played a season typical for a rookie with talent. The team and management love him. He has shown flashes and gutter balls. Typical for a young guy.
Allen came in with the most to learn and did ok. He was the guy that really needed to sit. But he is a big strong kid and if he can harness and hone his talent. He may work out.
Rosen got the worst draw. And he thought Cleveland was bad. I don't think it is fair to judge him. He is in a place I doubt anyone would look good in. Bad OL and little talent around him.
Baker did not take long; to not look like a rookie. Talk about take the bull by the horns. He set the record and did it in less games. That aside he did things you don't see rookies do. For one he took control of the team. He gained the confidence of his teammates and coaching staff. He did it by being who he is both as a player and his drive. He got the team to believe he can score and he delivered.
Great class to follow. All different. All talented.
Teams will stop the rats ... Lamar is COMPLETELY ONE DIMENSIONAL in my eyes ...
I’m with u on that i am soooo disspaointed in our Defensive game plan for them ... its really not that hard to shut them down ... i honestly think we were the better football on the field on sunday ...
- bad D game planning - quick td signal by one of the side judges witch led to the quick whistle IMO - ball hits vice grips in the face mask on a TD ... - bake missing Landry on the out on the last series .. unfortunate time to be iinnacurate ...
Will be interesting to see how affective he is against the bolts this time around ...
Also cant wait to see him have to bring his team back .... that’ll be real interesting to say the least .. *L* ...
Just to piggyback on your post .... we'll see how good a QB Lamar is the 1st time he gets hurt and can't run.
He made a couple of solid throws against us, but also some that were absolute gimmes that he just butchered. The day when he is banged up to the point that he can't take off and run, then we'll see what he has as a passer.
Teams will stop the rats ... Lamar is COMPLETELY ONE DIMENSIONAL in my eyes ...
I’m with u on that i am soooo disspaointed in our Defensive game plan for them ... its really not that hard to shut them down ... i honestly think we were the better football on the field on sunday ...
- bad D game planning - quick td signal by one of the side judges witch led to the quick whistle IMO - ball hits vice grips in the face mask on a TD ... - bake missing Landry on the out on the last series .. unfortunate time to be iinnacurate ...
Will be interesting to see how affective he is against the bolts this time around ...
Also cant wait to see him have to bring his team back .... that’ll be real interesting to say the least .. *L* ...
I don't think Baker missed Landry. The pass was a little behind him but he tried to one hand it. All these WR try to be Odell Beckham and get on ESPN. If he made that catch we are in field goal range.
I’m talking about the out at the end of the game not the one off his face mask .... that was just bad luck IMO .. any and all blame goes to VICE GRIPS on that one ... ...
No, it wasn't. Landry was wide open and all Baker had to do was lead him towards the middle of the field. Instead, he dropped right on top of his head. Landry should have caught it, but it was an inaccurate throw considering the circumstances.
I get that Baker never, ever makes a mistake to most on this board, but that was a poor throw.
If that was Landry's best effort at catching a ball, I'll have to re-evaluate what I think of him as a receiver. Perfect pass? No. Clearly behind him. If you can get one hand on it, you have to catch it. Especially when it's painfully obvious that he could have had two hands on it if he wanted to make the catch. QBs don't throw perfect passes every time. All-world receivers make that catch all day long... when they truly want to.
I'm arguing that it was not a great throw. It was an inaccurate throw because the middle of the field was wide open. Just throw it out in front of him.
The list of QBs who completed 53% of passes and below since 1999 (when football started) is not great. If Josh Allen was just a passer we'd be talking about him as one of the worst picks ever. Luckily for the Bills, and Josh Allen, he's basically Cam Newton while running the ball. I don't know if Allen will be good, but he at least has a chance. Before the season I didn't think he had a chance.
Josh Rosen might be screwed. The situation in Arizona is real bad. They need a total rebuild, which means subjecting him to an awful supporting cast for at least one more year. That's not great.
All of the other three are in pretty good spots and I'd expect them to excel as long as they stay healthy.
1. I'm not a stat guy but how the heck does Josh Allen have a OBR that is almost the same as Baker and way ahead of Lamar???
Josh Allen is the worst QB I've seen in a long time.
Lamar...is a train wreck waiting to happen but until that happens the kid is amazing. Seems like an easy game plan to defense him...but so far nobody has been able to do it. I'm curious to see how the Chargers defend him as they are the first to see him the 2nd time around. I think???
Josh Allen always thought he was inconsistent just enough to keep him from being great. He's never been on a winner has he.
I agree with Vers, the kid just might become damaged goods before anyone can find out how good he is.
Darnold I was warming up to him cause I thought that is who the Browns were going to take. To my happiness and surprise we took Baker. Darnold is an excellent leader but his arm strength just is much weaker than I thought. Was surprise on that. He's going to be good but we are talking Flacco good not Peyton Manning good.
Just to piggyback on your post .... we'll see how good a QB Lamar is the 1st time he gets hurt and can't run.
He made a couple of solid throws against us, but also some that were absolute gimmes that he just butchered. The day when he is banged up to the point that he can't take off and run, then we'll see what he has as a passer.
When I see Lamar Jackson play, I think of Micheal Vick in one way, Speed.. But really he reminds me more of RG3.
I hope what happened to RG won't happen to Jackson.. Miles Garrett eluded to it in his end of season interview on Monday. he mentioned that Jacksons long term success might depend on how well he takes care of his body.
No, it wasn't. Landry was wide open and all Baker had to do was lead him towards the middle of the field. Instead, he dropped right on top of his head. Landry should have caught it, but it was an inaccurate throw considering the circumstances.
I get that Baker never, ever makes a mistake to most on this board, but that was a poor throw.
Passes that hit receiver in head = bad pass. Got it.
No, it wasn't. Landry was wide open and all Baker had to do was lead him towards the middle of the field. Instead, he dropped right on top of his head. Landry should have caught it, but it was an inaccurate throw considering the circumstances.
I get that Baker never, ever makes a mistake to most on this board, but that was a poor throw.
Passes that hit receiver in head = bad pass. Got it.
I love sarcasm. Nice job.
With that said............Yeah, I don't know what I am talking about. I would have no idea [as a former coach, player, and scout] that a QB should throw the ball out in front and to the middle of the field when a receiver is breaking open and there is no deep help. I didn't know that you were supposed to drop a deep pass right on top of a guy's head. Got it.
Pssst .... i’m just some idiot off the street and i know that u oughta lead the WR to the middle of the field ... u never want to drop it directly over his head .... its all about ANGLES .... hmmm .. maybe i’m more qualified to be a coach than i think ...
Pssst .... i’m just some idiot off the street and i know that u oughta lead the WR to the middle of the field ... u never want to drop it directly over his head .... its all about ANGLES .... hmmm .. maybe i’m more qualified to be a coach than i think ...
U said u like sarcasm ... *L* ...
And, we all know a receiver, especially that wide open, is not allowed to make any route adjustment to the pass, right? Heck no! The receiver should run full sprint and if the ball donks off his facemask as he's looking back, it was a bad pass.
Btw----------just to clarify in case things are being misconstrued. I am not criticizing Baker for that throw. It wasn't awful I simply disputed the claim that it was "on the money." I took that to mean that is where the throw should have been.
You throw that ball out in front and to the middle of the field and let your receiver run under it. The hardest catch in football is the one that drops right over your head. Dropping one on top of a dude's head is extremely hard to catch.
Baker played extremely well this year. I am not dissing him. Just trying to talk football.
With that said, I could be wrong about this but it seems like there is a tendency to give Baker all the credit and then blame others if things don't go perfectly. I am not a fan of that and I don't think that is good for a team.
I keep reading about drops and such, but I don't see posts pointing out the diving catches by Landry [that was reviewed late in the game] and the one right before that. Who was that? Higgins?
Baker and Lamar have played out of their minds. No one will give Lamar credit for his decision making. Rosen will be good too. Darnold and Allen never looked like they got shellshocked and played to their strengths. Like I said last year, the class was going to get at least 3 stars.
In all seriousness............this is for you and anyone who wants to either learn or talk rationally about the situation.
While tracking the ball is huge for receivers, I think the posters who are bringing this up are wrong in this case.
Here is why.
You track the ball when it isn't thrown directly towards you. Examples would include, but are not limited to:
--The throw I previously mentioned. The throw is beyond you and to your inside. You adjust your route while the ball is in the air and track down the ball by running at the proper speed and adjusting your route to the inside.
--Let's say you are on the right side of the formation and are running a skinny post well down the field. The throw is off and instead of being on your inside shoulder, it's on your outside shoulder. Somehow, you have to pivot and turn your body around where your face is pointing to the right sideline instead of the left sideline. It's very difficult.
--You are running a jett and the corner has pretty good coverage, so the qb throws to your back shoulder. You cut off your route and use your body as a shield to highpoint the ball in front of the corner.
There are more, but those are examples of route adjustments.
What happened to Landry is not an example of "he should have adjusted his route. He was running it. The throw was a rainbow that was aimed directly toward him and dropped in over the top of his head. What was he supposed to do? Run to the right and then dive back to the left? The opposite?
The answer is no. That is why coaches teach their qbs to throw those types of passes beyond and to the side of the receiver depending on which direction he is running. In this case, the throw should have beyond Landry and to the middle of the field.
I am going to reiterate this point and when we meet, I am going to make you run down the field and I will drop a throw right on top of your head and then throw it correctly and let you run to it. It's almost impossible to "adjust" to a ball that is dropped on to the top of your head.
With that said, Landry still should have caught it. He's a very good WR and he would tell you that he should have caught it. But, that throw was not "on the money."
Tell me Landry couldn't have adjusted to the ball.
Could it have been a better pass? Sure. BUt a damn ball that, when you're wide open, hits you in the face mask? Excuse me, that's a bad attempt at a reception.
Obviously, some have never been a receiver. It's okay. When you are running wide open, it would be awesome to have a perfect, leading pass.
Of course, in real life, sometimes that doesn't happen, right?
I would ask Jarvis if he thought he should've caught that pass, or if he blamed Baker for it.
Of course, I know one poster on here that feigns appreciation of Baker, and another poster that follows suit.
Blaming the no catch on Baker is getting just a little nit picky. But, you all can carry on. Perfection is out of reach. The ball was catchable.......as in I bet Jarvis could've kicked himself for missing it.
Could it have been a better pass? Sure. BUt a damn ball that, when you're wide open, hits you in the face mask? Excuse me, that's a bad attempt at a reception.
No, it wasn't. Landry was wide open and all Baker had to do was lead him towards the middle of the field. Instead, he dropped right on top of his head. Landry should have caught it, but it was an inaccurate throw considering the circumstances.
I get that Baker never, ever makes a mistake to most on this board, but that was a poor throw.
Look, a certain poster is ticked that Hue was let go, so .........foolishness ensues.
I'd love to hear what Landry had to say about that drop.
I'm not some ex stud running back, college coach, scout, etc.
I got to call it like it is. I think you are reaching here, and Vers criticism has nothing to do with Hue.
According to Ballpeen, I haven't played a sport past 8 years old so I'm just spitballing here, but Vers's assessment of what happened is spot on to me. I never even considered blaming Jarvis for the drop quite honestly. It was under thrown and to the outside of where Jarvis was expecting. It was just an unfortunate play that both sides, QB and receiver, could have done better.
We should be talking about his last pass to Jarvis, then the entire board can get mad at me.
Go read the other thread ... i said ... vice grips should have caught that ball ...
It was not a bad throw by any stretch but it certainly wasn’t a good one ... 3 or 4 yards to either side of vice grips gives him an ANGLE and amuch better shot than the ball coming directly over his head ...
He should have adjusted to it ... its not that easy ... anyone thats ever played the middle infield in baseball can tell u that ... balls hit directly over your head are the hardest play for them to make cause theres NO ANGLE ... now VG had more time to adjust than a middle infielder but he was also running full speed while trying to track it ...
My conclusion was it was SIMPLY BAD LUCK ... if it don’t hit his face mask its a TD ...
Dude on here was just taking a cheap shot ... so i replied in kind ...
Obviously, some have never been a receiver. It's okay. When you are running wide open, it would be awesome to have a perfect, leading pass.
Of course, in real life, sometimes that doesn't happen, right?
I would ask Jarvis if he thought he should've caught that pass, or if he blamed Baker for it.
Of course, I know one poster on here that feigns appreciation of Baker, and another poster that follows suit.
Blaming the no catch on Baker is getting just a little nit picky. But, you all can carry on. Perfection is out of reach. The ball was catchable.......as in I bet Jarvis could've kicked himself for missing it.
*LOL* ... well beneath u arch ... i hope your just having a bad night and this is not who u are ...
Anyone else find it funny that the big "AFC North" qbs like Darnold and Allen got hurt and the small and thin guys like Baker and Lamar never missed a beat?
I wouldn't say it's "funny." I would say that two have much better OL's than the other two.
I will say that the guy everyone worried about in regards to durability was Josh Rosen. No qb in recent memory has taken a more severe beating than he did this year, but somehow he played each game after he was named the starter. I will also say that Arizona better upgrade that OL in a big way because they are going to ruin him if they don't. That's not an evaluation on the guy. That is just common sense. No one can endure that many hits. That is especially true for a young pup.
He can get rid of it quickly, but he's throwing too many interceptions. But, the main thing is that he rarely has any time to throw and is taking some huge shots while he is throwing.
I've watched Eli Manning lose his nerve because he has taken so many shots in the last few years. I saw the same thing w/guys like David Carr and Tim Couch. I just think Arizona better do something quick in regards to the OL and their offensive play calling because they invested a high pick in Rosen and he has obviously flashed his talents, but man, you can't allow your qb to take that many big hits.
I don't know what either said about the play but I'd expect Landry to say he should have caught it and Baker to say he should have thrown it better.
Absolutely. It wasn’t a perfect pass for sure and I agree with your assessment.
My problem is when someone tries to say a 35 yard pass from his own end zone that hits the WR in the face mask was “inaccurate”. This isn’t a pass/fail test but some try to act like it is.... passes must be perfect to be considered accurate. It seems Baker needs to be perfect to be considered accurate and it’s not a standard even many of the elite QBs can boast. He IS an accurate QB but no he isn’t perfect. That throw definitely could have been better but not by much.. very close to great and definitely catchable.
Man, I always remember Charlie Frye behind our OL, then DA for the rest of the year. I think we gave up something like 20 sacks for the whole year, but 6 were against Frye, in his only half of play for the Browns that year.
I'll have to watch Rosen when his games come on NFL Network. I cannot understand why a team would throw a 1st round QB behind a junk OL.
One thing I'll add about Baker, I have been shocked and surprised at how fast Baker can process some things, and get the ball out. I think he might develop elite level skill there as he learns the NFL more and more.
I think some people try and take a reply to a very specific comment and then forget it was about a specific comment and try to make wide-sweeping evaluations of what others are thinking.
I hear you about the Frye/DA comparision, but Bradford was faring even worse than Rosen behind that OL. The telling thing is that the OL only got worse.
Five OL starters were lost and as of Dec. 5th, 8 different OL combinations had been used. I did a quick search and didn't see anything, but I think I heard an announcer say that 10 OL combinations were used for the year.
I like how everyone managed to say nice things about all the other QBs, yet the guy who’s actually in the playoffs gets back handed compliments combined with “well, I dunno if he’s gonna make it”
Since the draft, I have refrained from mentioning what Lamar is because I wanted to stick to football as much as possible, but it’s increaidngly seeming like some of y’all might have other reasons you don’t like Lamar which has nothing to do with football.
I said something nice about Lamar. I think I said that I believe all five of those qbs have a real shot at being good.
I think he needs to evolve as a passer, but the team is winning w/him, the coaching staff and players believe in him, and he has that "it" factor.
I saw him make a beautiful throw a couple of weeks ago to a TE that was extremely accurate. Threw it over the underneath coverage and dropped it in ahead of the deep coverage while hitting the dude in stride. Very impressive.
I like how everyone managed to say nice things about all the other QBs, yet the guy who’s actually in the playoffs gets back handed compliments combined with “well, I dunno if he’s gonna make it”
Since the draft, I have refrained from mentioning what Lamar is because I wanted to stick to football as much as possible, but it’s increaidngly seeming like some of y’all might have other reasons you don’t like Lamar which has nothing to do with football.
I've not chimed in an anything 'Lamar' on this board, but I want to say that Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl and I've never had anything nice to say about that guy...ever. Dilfer was never a good QB...but he won the Super Bowl.
I prefer QBs in the NFL who are better at throwing the ball than they are at running the ball. Simple as that.
I think some people try and take a reply to a very specific comment and then forget it was about a specific comment and try to make wide-sweeping evaluations of what others are thinking.
Or maybe some people simply have a different opinion and other people take offense to that as if they are being dissed in some way.
1. I'm not a stat guy but how the heck does Josh Allen have a OBR that is almost the same as Baker and way ahead of Lamar???
Josh Allen is the worst QB I've seen in a long time.
Lamar...is a train wreck waiting to happen but until that happens the kid is amazing. Seems like an easy game plan to defense him...but so far nobody has been able to do it. I'm curious to see how the Chargers defend him as they are the first to see him the 2nd time around. I think???
Josh Allen always thought he was inconsistent just enough to keep him from being great. He's never been on a winner has he.
I agree with Vers, the kid just might become damaged goods before anyone can find out how good he is.
Darnold I was warming up to him cause I thought that is who the Browns were going to take. To my happiness and surprise we took Baker. Darnold is an excellent leader but his arm strength just is much weaker than I thought. Was surprise on that. He's going to be good but we are talking Flacco good not Peyton Manning good.
jmho
hmmm couldn't edit it??? In the bold, that would be Josh Rosen not Allen that I was talking about!
Lamar has 3 ints on the season. If we had a QB who threw 3 ints in a year, then many would make children after him.
Lamar is a good decision maker. His ability their is what it is, but he's not throwing picks, which keep anyone in a game. I get that he might get injured, but we'll see. He looks a lot stronger than any of the QBs with his skillset. and as I said last year, if you have a franchise QB, he's going to get a season ending injury eventually in 16+ games over 10-20 years. D linemen are just way too big.
I like how everyone managed to say nice things about all the other QBs,
I'm sorry just what part of "AMAZING" doesn't suit your Lamar Agenda which is a little too close, If we were still a losing team would you have switched to a Raven fan. I know you will get insulted now and get really PO'd at me. But I never quite saw a love of a player like that before. I know he was your guy before and after the draft. He actually has definitely impressed me as I continue to use words like "WOW" and "AMAZING" to describe him.
Yes I do say a train wreck waiting to happen that is because the NFL Defenses can always catch up and the kid is to inaccurate to Win games with his arm. Plus as I said, and I'm no genius...in that running attack to ALWAY have a guy hitting Lamar sliding behind pulling OLmen...whether he has the ball or not. Other teams will start this and he is going to get hurt, concussed some where down the road.
jmho hard to read a persons opinion accurately but that is how you come across.
the the QBs im trying to think that didn't have a major injury over the course of his career is Eli manning? Wilson so far is really durable, but he still has ton of seasons left and is currently in his prime. maybe Rivers?
Wentz is already getting there twice. Luck already had the injuries. Rodgers can't stay healthy. peyton had the neck thing, etc etc.
I like how everyone managed to say nice things about all the other QBs,
I'm sorry just what part of "AMAZING" doesn't suit your Lamar Agenda which is a little too close, If we were still a losing team would you have switched to a Raven fan. I know you will get insulted now and get really PO'd at me. But I never quite saw a love of a player like that before. I know he was your guy before and after the draft. He actually has definitely impressed me as I continue to use words like "WOW" and "AMAZING" to describe him.
Yes I do say a train wreck waiting to happen that is because the NFL Defenses can always catch up and the kid is to inaccurate to Win games with his arm. Plus as I said, and I'm no genius...in that running attack to ALWAY have a guy hitting Lamar sliding behind pulling OLmen...whether he has the ball or not. Other teams will start this and he is going to get hurt, concussed some where down the road.
jmho hard to read a persons opinion accurately but that is how you come across.
funny how you quoted half the sentence, and left out the other half:
Quote:
yet the guy who’s actually in the playoffs gets back handed compliments combined with “well, I dunno if he’s gonna make it”
cause your post pretty much enforced that second half of the sentence. facts.
Whatever, I left out that 2nd part cause it does not change the discussion. Ravens having the #1 Defense in the NFL I think is the defining variable. But thats just me. What do I know...lol
Time after time in this league it has been proven that unless you're built like Cam Newton and Josh Allen, you won't last in this league running all over the place. Even then, Cam has been struggling last year and this year with a shoulder, that's two seasons marred by injuries and he is only 29 years old......
Lamar is explosive, he can throw it enough but I looked it up because someone on Twitter was trying to tell me he has "brought them back with his arm" on many occasions. That is flat out, not accurate.
Down only 8 points versus Bengals Down 7 in Q1 versus Raiders - never trailed after Down 3 - Falcons, 2nd half never trailed Down 7 against KC - led in Q4, loss TB - down 6, Q1, never trailed after that LAC- down 4 Q3, never trailed after CLE - Down 3 in Q1 - never trailed after
In all of his starts he has never been down by more than 1TD at ANY point. That defense has allowed him to be able to keep running it even later in games. There has not been a single game where Lamar had to throw the team back in the game against the clock.
Right now he is perfect for Baltimore, but that defense is older, Suggs is 36, Weddle is 33, even Jimmy Smith is 30. This year, they might be able to make a run with Lamar. Long term, I have serious, serious doubts about his viability.
Josh Allen -
He is exactly what I thought he would be. He is Cam Newton light. He can win with his arm and his elite athleticism but his accuracy will always be an issue. He needs a great team around him like Cam does.
Josh Rosen-
He is the Tim Couch of the Cardinals. He will be ruined before they are good enough to compete. That team is horrifically bad. Why did they let John Brown walk? Tyron Matheui? Cambell? If you look at their roster aside from Chandler Jones and Peterson....yuck.
Hard to understand what they are doing out in the desert.
Sam Darnold -
He is exactly what he was in college. He will throw some absolute dimes and then throw into an obvious double for an INT. He has the physical talent but he needs to be reigned in and put in a system that can minimize his loose and sloppy play. 15 INT's and 5 fumbles and 57% completion % is not getting it done. If Drew Brees is completing 75% of his passes, you have to be at a MINIMUM 60% in this league.
I dunno, the same things that made me hesitant to want him in the draft are the same reasons I am hesitant after seeing him for a season. Turnovers, he tends to lose the play on scramble drills too often.
He can still be a good one, there is just something I don't like.
Baker Mayfield -
Double edge sword trusting your guys as much as he does. Threw some U...L...G....Y UGLY INT's. Struggles with the zone blitz scheme and trail technique coverage. Houston and Baltimore exposed him a bit dropping out backer/safties in man looks. Had too many fumbles as well (especially early on).
Presnap the kid is head and shoulders above any rookie QB i've ever seen. The level of sophistication in his game in unlike any rookie I have ever seen, the ball fakes, the reading of coverage's post snap, the "feel" in the pocket. He has all the makings of a top 5-10 QB in this league for a long time.
Lamar is electric, he's one of the few reasons I'm excited about this week's games. We've been jaded as fans because the league has proven over, and over, and over again, that running QBs have a short shelf life. Maybe he's the exception, maybe as he gets better at "quarterbacking" he won't run as much. His legs have to be a weapon, not a way of life. "Slippery when wet" is sexy as hell but eventually you get hung out to dry.
I like how everyone managed to say nice things about all the other QBs, yet the guy who’s actually in the playoffs gets back handed compliments combined with “well, I dunno if he’s gonna make it”
Since the draft, I have refrained from mentioning what Lamar is because I wanted to stick to football as much as possible, but it’s increaidngly seeming like some of y’all might have other reasons you don’t like Lamar which has nothing to do with football.
Well seeing as how I said Lamar will never be a good NFL QB i feel i’m on solid ground thinking i’m Included in the above group that u just INSINUATED ARE RACIST ..... the others can tap dance with u ... not much of a tap dancer myself ... so lets get right to the point ......
Dude can’t hit the broad side of a barn so u insinuate i’m A racist ... what a joke ... PURE CLASS on your part ... and u wonder why theres a divide in this country ...
Forget the fact i’ve said since day 1 on this board my #1 trait in a QB is ACCURACY ... forget the fact that last year it took me bout 4 or 5 games to admit i was wrong about Watson cause he PROVED ME WRONG ... love that kid ... GREAT HUMAN BEING ... u could learn a lot from him ...
FORGET THE FACT I THINK JOSH ALLEN WILL NEVER BE A GOOD QB IN THIS LEAGUE FOR THE SAME DAMM REASON ...
But somehow i’m a racist cause i still think Jackson will NEVER BE ACCURATE enough to be an NFL qb ...
Take this crap to the CESS POOL where it belongs ...
Thats BS ... and u owe us all an apology ... at least me ... my MESSAGE HAS BEEN CONSISTENT SINCE DAY 1 on this board .... but i’m Sure you’ll dig in and defend your BS and compare there completion %’s ... been pretty consistent there also ...STATS ARE FOR LOSERS ...
If u think hes accurate ... we have different definitions of the word accuratte ... WAY DIFFERENT ...
INSINUATING i’m A racist cause i don't think Jackson is accurate ... WHAT HORSEBLEEP ...
Lamar is electric, he's one of the few reasons I'm excited about this week's games. We've been jaded as fans because the league has proven over, and over, and over again, that running QBs have a short shelf life. Maybe he's the exception, maybe as he gets better at "quarterbacking" he won't run as much. His legs have to be a weapon, not a way of life. "Slippery when wet" is sexy as hell but eventually you get hung out to dry.
He’d of made a great triple option QB back in the 70’s and 80’s ... ....
So fate, hypothetically speaking, let’s say let’s say all you haters are right that Lamar won’t last long.
He only last maybe 6 years, but gets one ring out of his career. The other 4 QBs have long lasting nfl Careers, but no rings.
Who was the better QB?
Now, I’ve been on record stating over and over again that baker is the best, and baker could get us 3 rings, so the tabs have no ground to stand on when it comes to trashing me just because I like Lamar.
Because 15 years down the line, if Lamar is out the league due to injury but has a ring as the starting QB, and the other guys have long careers but no rings, well...
Lamar is electric, he's one of the few reasons I'm excited about this week's games. We've been jaded as fans because the league has proven over, and over, and over again, that running QBs have a short shelf life. Maybe he's the exception, maybe as he gets better at "quarterbacking" he won't run as much. His legs have to be a weapon, not a way of life. "Slippery when wet" is sexy as hell but eventually you get hung out to dry.
He’d of made a great triple option QB back in the 70’s and 80’s ... ....
What comes around, goes around Dawg... He might make a great triple option QB in the 20s lol.
So fate, hypothetically speaking, let’s say let’s say all you haters are right that Lamar won’t last long.
He only last maybe 6 years, but gets one ring out of his career. The other 4 QBs have long lasting nfl Careers, but no rings.
Who was the better QB?
Now, I’ve been on record stating over and over again that baker is the best, and baker could get us 3 rings, so the tabs have no ground to stand on when it comes to trashing me just because I like Lamar.
Because 15 years down the line, if Lamar is out the league due to injury but has a ring as the starting QB, and the other guys have long careers but no rings, well...
So by that theory ...
Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino ...
Were gonna have to disagree there also ... ...
IMO Archie Manning was a better QB than Eli ... Archie never had a winning season and Eli has two rings ...
And Terry Bradshaw is one of the GOAT’s ...
Wonder exactly where Marino would fall on the list going by your logic ...
I like how everyone managed to say nice things about all the other QBs, yet the guy who’s actually in the playoffs gets back handed compliments combined with “well, I dunno if he’s gonna make it”
Since the draft, I have refrained from mentioning what Lamar is because I wanted to stick to football as much as possible, but it’s increaidngly seeming like some of y’all might have other reasons you don’t like Lamar which has nothing to do with football.
Well seeing as how I said Lamar will never be a good NFL QB i feel i’m on solid ground thinking i’m Included in the above group that u just INSINUATED ARE RACIST .....
So fate, hypothetically speaking, let’s say let’s say all you haters are right that Lamar won’t last long.
He only last maybe 6 years, but gets one ring out of his career. The other 4 QBs have long lasting nfl Careers, but no rings.
Who was the better QB?
Now, I’ve been on record stating over and over again that baker is the best, and baker could get us 3 rings, so the tabs have no ground to stand on when it comes to trashing me just because I like Lamar.
Because 15 years down the line, if Lamar is out the league due to injury but has a ring as the starting QB, and the other guys have long careers but no rings, well...
Why's everyone gotta be a hater?
You've been right about Lamar since day one. Didn't say Lamar won't last long... said we've been conditioned to believe he won't last long. People are wrong all the time... the whole league of fat, white executives spent the better part of five years insisting the RPO was a passing phase. The league is changing. No matter how much film study you do, you're still guessing, paper-scissors-rock style, with Lamar in the backfield. His success will still be determined by longevity, ring or no ring. Name the last great QB that only played five years. You can't because the conversation starts and ends with could have been. If he is out of the league in six years but wins a ring, he will be the first person to talk about what could have been.
He's in the right place at the right time, but he needs to become a better quar-ter-back. Point blank. That's not a knock, just a fact. Same could be said of all rookie QBs though - so in that respect - dude is a winner and in the playoffs.
We can all marvel at talent and still pick out weaknesses, doesn't make us "haters", just makes us opinionated know-it-alls on a message board.
that a QB should throw the ball out in front and to the middle of the field when a receiver is breaking open and there is no deep help. I didn't know that you were supposed to drop a deep pass right on top of a guy's head. Got it.
Landry was already on the hash marks and defensive help was coming from the inside.. if he leads him more toward the middle of the field he is leading him into help. It was on the right line.
It was a ball that was thrown almost 40 yards in the air and it was 12" short of being perfect and Landry failed to make any adjustment at all to catch it. That incompletion is 2% on Baker Mayfield and 98% on Jarvis Landry. Worst case, Landry slows a step to catch it and ends up getting caught from behind so it's only a 65 yard gain instead of a TD...
But hey, i guess winning super bowls is overrated.
Sometimes it is. Who is better? Trent Dilfer or Dan Marino?
Dilfer according to Swish ...
Funny watching him dig in and just say outragoues things that make no sense ...
Time to change my GOAT LIST ... every SB winning QB is now better than:
Dan Marino Dan Fouts Warren Moon Jim Kelly Fran Tarkenton Steve McNair
The HOF has it all wrong ... what are Fouts, Marino and Moon doing in there while STUDS LIKE Dilfer, Rypien, Sims and Flacco just to name a few are on the outside looking in ...
But hey, i guess winning super bowls is overrated.
Sometimes it is. Who is better? Trent Dilfer or Dan Marino?
individually, marino.
but who fit the team he was on better to WIN? dilfer.
I guess if you want to take a dominant D that won you the SB as an indication of the QB being a "better fit", you can do that. However, most NFL starters that year would have "fit better" than Dilfer. But even you stated that Marino was the better QB.
Baltimore doesn't have as great a D as they did in their SB year, but they do have the #1 D in the NFL.
You are right that the QB is the #1 position on the team, but the position isn't played in a vacuum. It's a team sport for a reason and there are some QB's with a ring that owe it to their defense.
As for Lamar, he has the chance to be a great QB. He is a first year starter and if he can become just a bit more accurate he can be really good. Those are questions left to be answered but all rookie QB's have some questions.
I think if you are being logical about the situation you can understand the question marks that surround Lamar. He lacks the size and accuracy of a Cam Newton. More people compare him to Colin Kaepernick only slightly less accurate. Kaep looked like a world beater in his first season and was figured out after that.
Actually, if you look at most of the running QB's, even with accuracy they didn't hold up long or have a high ring count. That doesn't mean that can't change, but when you look at opinions they're pretty much going to stick with past evidence until such time as the evidence changes.
i guess i like winning more than you do. you're definitely part of the generation that was handing out participation trophies to my generation.
Thats progress .... now i don’t mind losing and give out participation trophies ... so that’s improvement on your part ... much better than when u called EVERYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH U A RACIST ...
Good job ... your insults are getting less insulting ... now hold on and let me go get u a participation trophy as you’ve certainly finished last in this debate ...
all i did was point out that the other QB's seem to keep getting love, especially darnold's trash ass, yet all lamar gets is back handed compliments.
i've had discussions already about the things lamar needs to work on throughout the season. he's by no means perfect, and i agree with Vick that lamar shouldnt have anything higher than 12-15 carries a game. the rate he's running scares me.
but AGAIN, and i dont know how clear i have to make myself, its really odd that no matter what, there's a # of posters who just absolutely refuse to give him credit where credit is due.
just like last season, the posters who kept claiming deshaun watson was a running QB, while he was tearing up the passing TD mark his first year before he got hurt.
im evaluating the QB's based on their current play and fit in the nfl, while a lot of posters just refuse to move past their college/draft analysis.
i didn't call anybody a racist. you might want to go reread that post. its also odd that ive stuck to football as much as i can, while guys like vers have caught less heat than i have despite him clearly bringing up race for the reason posters dont like hue jackson, something ive never done.
So fate, hypothetically speaking, let’s say let’s say all you haters are right that Lamar won’t last long.
He only last maybe 6 years, but gets one ring out of his career. The other 4 QBs have long lasting nfl Careers, but no rings.
Who was the better QB?
Now, I’ve been on record stating over and over again that baker is the best, and baker could get us 3 rings, so the tabs have no ground to stand on when it comes to trashing me just because I like Lamar.
Because 15 years down the line, if Lamar is out the league due to injury but has a ring as the starting QB, and the other guys have long careers but no rings, well...
Are you supposing the Ravens aren't a better organization than the Browns and Bills? Since 2000 they have 2 rings.
Teams, Ozzie Newsome, a lot of things go into winning a championship.
If it goes how you say, a lot of things go in to what I would think is the better quarterback, but the quarterbacks ethnicity would have nothing to do with it.
( Genealogy, maybe, as I recall a Clay Mathews Jr. interview where he gave a one word answer of "Genetics",)
The things I have against Lamar Jackson, in rating him, are. 1. I didn't watch him, 2. He played at Louisville, which I consider a Basketball school, and now
3. A Big Three! is He's a Raven, which is in the division and so on.
I also root against Mason Rudolph, who I think is probably the 2nd best Qb in this past draft behind Mayfield, but, we won't find out if he doesn't play, (because he's a Steeler), and
Lamar Jackson is surprising me, because when I see him he is playing well, and I hadn't watched him before. Also Too, Pat Mahomes is surprising me too, because I hadn't seen or followeh is play until this season. Also, the guy in Philadelphia, Wentz, apparently he is pretty good, but I've only watched Foles, who I think, must be better, because he won a freakin Superbowl (and made some good decisions with the football in the games I watched)
So, they can tell me Wentz is better, or Good, but I still won't believe it until I see it, and I've seen Foles. Trubisky is a pretty good quarterback.
I'll still be surprised if Josh Rosen improves much, because I want Qb's, and players mostly, that did well in bowl games in college, and if they didn't or were almost non existent, it makes me wonder. ( I won't say red flag, because it may be nothing they can control, but it does make me wonder, because I think all the great NFL qbs, mostly had a background where the came from a good performance in a big bowl game or more than one.
I think it's tough - Lamar has been sensational. But he hasn't been a sensational thrower of the ball. I've seen him make nice throws - but he isn't throwing receivers open - releasing the ball as the WR is making a cut like Baker is - and he's not throwing into tight windows with terrific accuracy like Baker.
The most recent example of a rookie sensation that was a running QB was a flash in the pan and never lived up to his rookie promise because he got injured and then asked to play through the injury. Who knows what happens if RG3 stays healthy? But he didn't - and I think it's impossible not to think of RG3 when you think of Lamar. . . . someone compared him to Cam I think? I don't see that - I think Cam is a pretty bad QB but a great athelete - but he's like 6'5 and as big as most LBers ... that's not Lamar.
Lamar deserves mad kudos - but regardless of the Kudos, it's going to come with a "let's see it over another season or 2": Will he stay healthy or will small nicks and bumps affect him? Will defenses take his running away and leave him to rely on having to throw the ball and how well will he do that without the threat of the run ? ... I don't think that is unfair.
I'm really interested to see how Lamar tracks in the playoffs - it is going to be really fun. I will be rooting for him.
Since the draft, I have refrained from mentioning what Lamar is because I wanted to stick to football as much as possible, but it’s increaidngly seeming like some of y’all might have other reasons you don’t like Lamar which has nothing to do with football.
I’ll do bettor than go re-read it .... i’ll post it here and give u chance to explain ....
Go ahead bro ... please tell me what that meant as i appearantly mis-understood it ...
Go ahead ... please tell me how i mis took what u meant ...
I think that Lamar is RG3, only without the accuracy RG3showed as a rookie.
RG3 had a dynamic rookie season, then running, and hits, derailed his career. I don't think that Lamar is as good a passer, and if he takes the wrong hit as a runner, I do question whether he can barely a good enough passer to win in the NFL.
I also wonder about Allen. Both guys have shown the ability to make a great throw, then butcher an easy one. I don't think either guy is all that. We'll see if they are, or not.
Looking at your 3 lists, I just want to say, even today I still feel Rudolph is ahead of Darnold Allen and Rosen, on all counts.
It's just that Rudolph hasn't gotten on field playing time yet. Is it possible for a better QB to not get on the field,
and I like, let me say...
Since 2 days before the draft, I have been surprisingly impressed and had to change my views to the better category by what I've seen out of Darnold and Allen, but especially Allen.
Because, I didn't like Darnold, but I did go back and forth on that one, some days I would see some things and think Darnold is going to be special, and other days think, ehh ya no, he isn't good, not very good at all.
Then other times think, oh no Darnold is the #2 guy this year, ... all in all it really doesn't matter,
but, I believe, there's still a chance, Rudolph comes out of this class as the #... One of the top 2 from this drafted class. But will people say that, if he never gets on the field, or not until later.
But right now today, Mason Rudolph, of the Steelers is definetly above Allen, Rosen and Darnold in my opinion.
Cept maybe Darnold. ( if had to trade. Trade Value, Darnold has more "today" of course because of league wide opinion, so as a "poker card to hold on to" Darnold has greater value, but I don't know, not sure if Darnold can = playing ability of what I feel Mason Rudolph's potential offers.
I really dont wanna do this .. but no u didnt answer the question ...
U gave more examples of why u think posters are racist .. in that response u had some merit as they were slamming him for speech and having a low wonder whatever score .. i cant spell it .. *L* ..
U know what u did bro .. and so does everyone else ...
I’m done with this part .. get the last word in ... then go enjoy your family and the new year bro ...
im evaluating the QB's based on their current play and fit in the nfl, while a lot of posters just refuse to move past their college/draft analysis.
How many Ravens games do you watch on Sunday at 1 in the afternoon in the fall? (I'm a Browns fan, I'm busy watching the Browns). I hadn't even seen Lamar Jackson play in the NFL until the 2nd time the Browns and Ravens played, Wasn't even aware, for sure either way, it wasn't Flacco starting after he came back from an injury.
I like Watson, he's unblei... He's special. ( I'll stick by my list, even though 6 months ago I only took a few seconds to think about it, ) 1.Deshaun Watson 2. Baker Mayfield 3. Ryan Tannehill 4 and 5, Aaron Rogers or Drew Brees 6, Russell Wilson 7. Andy Dalton.
And my thinking goes like, today going forward, if I had this one would I trade for the one above him, straigt up, I think I would. (probably put Brees above Rogers, but I forget which one I posted in April).
I have always seen Rudolph as more of a long term backup type.
i dunno bro. if he put the same numbers up in the ACC or big10, is he still a 3rd rounder?
from what i seen, i think he could be a quality starter in this league.
We'll see. I think he's a career backup. or, like Colt McCoy, a guy who gets a year as a starter, then back to backup when it's obvious he's not a starter.
You know .... watching Baker's highlights, one thing really, really jumps out at me.
For years now, we would get in 3rd and long, or 3rd and almost impossible, and we'd throw a screen, or to a receiver 5 yards short of the line to make. It's been a chronic problem ..... until this year. If we need 13 yards, baker is looking for 15. The plays are designed to convert 3rd and longs, and Baker makes the throws.
You know .... watching Baker's highlights, one thing really, really jumps out at me.
For years now, we would get in 3rd and long, or 3rd and almost impossible, and we'd throw a screen, or to a receiver 5 yards short of the line to make. It's been a chronic problem ..... until this year. If we need 13 yards, baker is looking for 15. The plays are designed to convert 3rd and longs, and Baker makes the throws.
Just eye test wise, Baker made a ton, and I mean a ton, of what I call "plus level" professional football throws. Difficult throws that require timing, accuracy, and an advanced level of understanding on what's going on. His number of plus level throws far exceeded that of any other rookie QB and my guess is far exceeded that of many veteran starters. Even his worst starts had 3-5 plus level throws.
Baker really is good at eluding defenders in the pocket. It's one of his strengths.
Lost in all the post game thoughts was that throw to Higgins where he scrambled, pumped, scrambled, pumped, launched and surprisingly connected. That was an impressive play.
Yeah, he made quite a few plays like that all year. What I like is that he can not only get-away from defenders, but he has the arm strength to make a tight window throw while on the move. That's pretty impressive.
There are a couple of things I would like to see him work on, but certain folks will get all offended and start w/the tired, personal attacks and it's just not worth it right now.
There are a couple of things I would like to see him work on, but certain folks will get all offended and start w/the tired, personal attacks and it's just not worth it right now.
Screw certain folks!
I would love to see him become more surgical in the short to intermediate passing game. There are many plays where he scoffed at an easy short range completion and went further down field. Hard to complain when he completes so many of them, but I would love to see more long, sustaining, back-breaking drives next year... the kind that keeps a defense fresh while they're champing at the bit for their next opportunity.
Great thing about Baker is how he slides around in the pocket, you can't really teach that. You just have to have a feel. Plus when he is moving the pocket he 's always got the ball ready to come out from a throwing position. He's ahead of his years
We did a great job in the red zone this year, but didn't get there often enough. Like you said, more sustained drive, and more red zone opportunities. (because I doubt we convert them next year at the rate we did from week 8 onward)
But hey, i guess winning super bowls is overrated.
Sometimes it is. Who is better? Trent Dilfer or Dan Marino?
individually, marino.
but who fit the team he was on better to WIN? dilfer.
Has nothing to do with fit, has to do with being in the right place at the right time.... you put Dan Marino on that Ravens team back around 2000/2001? Good Lord.. they would have been the odds on favorite to be the first team in history to go 38-0.
But hey, i guess winning super bowls is overrated.
Sometimes it is. Who is better? Trent Dilfer or Dan Marino?
individually, marino.
but who fit the team he was on better to WIN? dilfer.
Has nothing to do with fit, has to do with being in the right place at the right time.... you put Dan Marino on that Ravens team back around 2000/2001? Good Lord.. they would have been the odds on favorite to be the first team in history to go 38-0.
or maybe they dont, because marino doesn't fit the mold of the team.
you know whats funny? the vikings did the same exact thing you did. man, what if we got kirk cousins instead of keenum!!
You're thinking is flawed in terms of Marino and it ain't even close!
All Dilfer did was avoid mistakes and protect the ball. That's it. He played in 11 games and started in 8 games. He threw for 12 tds. and 11 ints. for 1502 yards. Even if you only count his starts that was less than 200 yards per game. They won the SB in spite of Dilfer, not because of Dilfer.
ray lewis, the guy who actually played on the team, differs. dilfer was a big part of that team.
again, individually? marino is far and away better.
but individually? rodgers is better than brady.
but guess who i rather have at QB based on how the team is molded? Brady, all day everyday. and based on how the ravens team was made, dilfer was the guy.
Yeah, well we're not talking Brady or Rogers here. We're talking about a QB who couldn't even throw for 200 yards a game and only threw for 12 td's and 11 int's in 8 starts and played in 11 games. I was watching that entire season.
You've just made up your mind made and refuse to listen to any logic on the subject.
i've listened to your logic. that doesn't mean i agree, or have to for that matter.
i like QB's with rings on their hands. im sorry for liking winners, Pit. maybe you and Diam can hand out participation trophies for all the QB's who were good, but not quite good enough.
Marino threw for all those yards...no rings.
like beyonce said, if you like it then you shouldve put a ring on it!
That's the greatest thing about Baker. He wasn't perfect and has a lot of things to work on... But he's only a rookie and he was still better than most the quarterbacks in the league.
I am happy with the Mayfield pick. Whether or not it was the best pick, only time will tell.
I will state that I would have preferred Darnold, but I understand the Mayfield selection.
The draft last year was funny. After I saw Darnold play Ohio State last year, I really had major questions about him. He didn't "look" right. Everything I read about him looked great. All the experts kept saying that he was probably the best pick in the draft. Everyone kept talking him up on paper, but whenever I pulled up a video of him on Youtube, I just didn't like what I was seeing. Rosen and Mayfield were at least "throwing" like NFL QBs when you watched them. Then the stuff came out about Rosen's attitude and concussion history, and I wasn't exactly thrilled about him either. Mayfield was checking all the boxes for me in the back of my mind, but everyone kept saying he was a mid-first rounder, so by draft day I was sort of sold on Darnold being the pick. It wasn't until after the pick came in that I was thinking, "Now wait, Mayfield isn't that bad of a pick".
I'll be rooting for Lamar in the playoffs, but I absolutely despise how the Ravens are using him. The guy is a quarterback, not a RB. Let him throw the ball. They are going to get him killed. They give no damns about him. IF they did, they would be trying to preserve his body as best as possible.
PFF adjusted comp%: (filters out drops, throw-aways, spikes and batted balls)
Mayfield - 74.0 Darnold - 69.7 Rosen - 67.9 Jackson - 66.7 Allen - 64.7
To be clear, Baker killed it this year. He came out spitting fire.
I didn't expect Baker would be this good right away.
My main concern was his transition to the NFL passing game coming from OU's spread-RPO heavy offense that created a lot of wide open looks. I thought he might have a Jared Goff like progression from college spread to NFL passing game.
But, Baker picked it up right away and his plus level accuracy definitely carried over. The main reason I don't have him at #1 is because I think he's in the best situation. Great OL, good receiving corps and good offensive scheme. Kudos to Dorsey. It took brass balls to get rid of both Hue and Haley. But he was absolutely right and the proof is in Baker's production.
Lamar's sample size is smaller then the other QBs. And I didn't even want him to play this year because I thought he had a lot of mechanical issues to work on and figured sitting and learning wouldn't hurt because he is so young.
Lamar was my #1 rated QB prospect last year but I think even I underestimated he impact his dynamic running ability could have. If you look at just the passing numbers he's still the #2 passer in this draft class only behind Baker who is waaayyyy out in front of the rest of the class in terms of passing only.
But when it comes to overall impact Lamar takes the cake. He completely lifted the offensive production on a team with a very limited supporting cast.
The team was 4-5 with a middling running game and underachieving passing game despite nearly leading the league in pass attempts at the time.
When Lamar took over at QB the Ravens had no margin for error. They had to win. And Lamar delivered. His dynamic running ability vaulted the Ravens from a bottom 1/3 run game to the #1 running game....and significantly increased the time of possession....all this while still being the #2 rookie passer. They went on 6-1 run with their only loss coming on the road in overtime to one of the top teams in the league.
There is no doubt the Ravens defense played a huge role in the win streak. But it was the same defense that was only 4-5 and on the outside looking in at the playoffs before Lamar took over.
The Raven's offense placed/places a high volume of runs within a short period of time on Lamar's plate and he's only missed a few plays due to being dinged up. Part of Lamar's running talent is the ability to avoid big hits and its gonna be crucial for him to keep avoid them because he's in harm's way quite often. (no jinx please)
Darnold was solid for a rookie. Missed some time due to injury. Doesn't have a good sporting cast. Bad OL, okay receivers and bad scheme.
Josh Allen's comp% 53 and adj.comp% 65 putting him firmly at the bottom ranking for rookies when it comes to metrics that speak to accuracy. But, Allen played with moxie. He missed some time due to injury he's kinda of reckless/Jake Lockerish runner. He's big, strong athletic kid willing to make plays anyway he can to help his talent starved team a win. Bad OL, unheralded receivers but decent scheme (although I wonder what he would look like in a scheme that used him more in the designed run game).
Rosen got beat up. If there is a blue print on how not to manage a rookie QB the Card's are writing version 2.0 Horrific OL, bad scheme that didn't protect the QB and wasted the talent of a decent supporting cast, changing OC mid-season.
With that being said I thought Rosen would find a way put up better numbers. His comp%55 was surprising. His adjusted comp% of 68 is only 1 better then Lamar's of 67 and many people in this forum consider Lamar inaccurate.
Rosen's issue was pressure. I thought Rosen was QB prospect that didn't often get away from pressure (especially from free rushers) and Zona's OL gave up a far too many pressures and free rushers...and Rosen struggled.
I think Rosen would look much different behind an OL like the Browns that could protect him.
But allow me this thought experiment....what would the Cardinal's look like if the only change they made was to have Lamar Jackson at QB with the Raven's current offensive scheme?
Anyhow I rank the rookie QBs in this order: Lamar Baker Darnold Allen Rosen
Mayfield’s rookie campaign didn’t have the best of starts, but that was only because he was on the bench. On the field, the former Oklahoma standout was spectacular. He finished the year ranked second behind Wilson in big-time throw percentage at 8.0%.
25. JOSH ALLEN, BUFFALO BILLS Overall Grade: 65.5
Allen’s legs saved him from an otherwise troublesome rookie season. His turnover-worthy play rate from a clean pocket (4.35) was the worst in the NFL in 2018, and his overall turnover-worthy play rate (4.69%) was good for third-worst.
26. SAM DARNOLD, NEW YORK JETS Overall Grade: 64.7
Darnold finished the month of December with a 90.1 overall grade, which bodes well for the Jets’ future. He battled rookie growing pains and injury early in the season, which ultimately drove his grade down to an irreparable figure regardless of how well he played in December, but his increased big-time throw rate and improved play under pressure down the stretch is still a positive sign to cling to moving forward.
Jackson’s legs have the Ravens in the postseason – not his arm. He’s struggled with accuracy at all areas of the field and will struggle if asked to throw the football more against better defenses in the playoffs.
Rosen’s offensive line was quite literally the worst in the NFL in 2018. As a result, he struggled to find rhythm in games and failed to flash any level of brilliance with game-to-game consistency. A handful of quality throws keeps him out of last place on this list, however.
The two surprising ones for me are Allen and Rosen. Allen has been better than expected. I'll take the hit on that and kudos to Dorsey who actually had Mayfield and Allen 1 and 2.
Rosen's inaccuracies are worrisome. I thought he'd be better. He's not in the best of locations, but I don't know that he should be this bad. I told someone jokingly he will be out of the NFL or relagated to back-up within 5 years. I may not be too far off with that joke.
Still too early to judge these guys really and truly.
Allen - I think the thing that jumps out is his overall accuracy and then the number of turnovers from a clean pocket. I am still highly skeptical of Allen being more than an inconsistent highlight maker - brilliance followed by face palm moments.
Rosen - I think it's unfair to judge him based on the lack of talent and the woeful OL. Hope he gets a fair shake.... Do I think Baker would do better given the same crapolla sandwich Rosen got? Yes. But that doesn't mean Rosen can't be very good with better around him.
Rosen just needs an OL and some horribly average WR like Darnold has and he will show massive growth next season.
I agree that Rosen will be better with better talent. But Fitz and Kirk are a better top 2 receivers then the other rookies except for Bake and DJ Johnson is up there with Chubbrock. Rosen was undoubtedly saddled with a bad OL and bad scheme that didn't protect him. My point was that Rosen can't lift the talent of his offense by escaping from pressure and turning would be sacks into non-sacks or 1st downs and imho ultimately this inability hurt his production. I believe IF he had the Browns OL he would have been better but the flipside of that coin is that I believe Lamar plugged into that same offense personnel would yield better production.
For years, posters were chastised for evaluating a player before they reached the end of their 3rd year. I never agreed that we shouldn't evaluate players along the way, but I do think it's unwise to put long-term summations on these guys.
I think it would be better to just evaluate how they are currently playing and not make definitive statements about any of them as it pertains to the span of their careers.
...I think it would be better to just evaluate how they are currently playing and not make definitive statements about any of them as it pertains to the span of their careers.
For years, posters were chastised for evaluating a player before they reached the end of their 3rd year. I never agreed that we shouldn't evaluate players along the way, but I do think it's unwise to put long-term summations on these guys.
I think it would be better to just evaluate how they are currently playing and not make definitive statements about any of them as it pertains to the span of their careers.
There is a lot of football left to play.
Very true... just look at the case of Derek Carr or RGIII, Vince Young, etc etc
With that said, I question a lot of these numbers that are being put out. Not just the charts you showed, but others as well.
For example, what constitutes a pressure? Do they differentiate between immediate pressure when a qb doesn't even have a chance to see the field and when a qb holds the ball too long and eventually gets late pressure after he has had time to survey the coverages and go through multiple projections? I look at those lists and I think of the OLs. Other than Watson, the top guys play behind very good OLs and the bottom guys play behind OLs that either suck, experienced a lot of injuries, or both.
It's one of the many questions I have because a lot of what I see doesn't always match-up w/the stats that are being posted this year.
First off , versatile, what concern is it of yours?? We are all grown ups I think. Second, I really don’t care what anyone else says or some stupid so called gang mentality. I say what I think.
And swish, despite the awful auto correct my point still is that you can take a perfectly ordinary qb like dilfer, drop him onto a team with the 2000 ravens defense and he can win a ring, but he is still a perfectly ordinary quarterback. Call me when he gets his invite to the nfl hall of fame. I’ll be waiting.
Or you can take a perfectly ordinary qb like Jim McMahon, drop him on a team with the bears 85 defense and ......voila... a ring.
Lastly swish, since we will be competing directly with Jackson and the ravens for division championships and playoff spots pardon me if I do not join you in wishing much success on Lamar.
You think differ rather have a HoF nod or the ring?
I'm pretty sure he would rather have the SB ring... with all of his 136 yards passing per game, his 76.6 rating, his 12 TDs and 11 INTs, the fact that he couldn't beat out Tony Banks for the starting job until Banks went 5 full games without scoring a TD..
Dilfer is freaking awesome.... but then in the playoffs he REALLY lit it up.. 147 yards per game and 3 TDs.. 3 TDs in FOUR games...
You think differ rather have a HoF nod or the ring?
I'm pretty sure he would rather have the SB ring... with all of his 136 yards passing per game, his 76.6 rating, his 12 TDs and 11 INTs, the fact that he couldn't beat out Tony Banks for the starting job until Banks went 5 full games without scoring a TD..
Dilfer is freaking awesome.... but then in the playoffs he REALLY lit it up.. 147 yards per game and 3 TDs.. 3 TDs in FOUR games...
You are leaving some information out. The team was in a huge tailspin under Banks. The team then went 7 and 1 under Dilfer.
I think the change from Banks to Dilfer helped the Rats win the Super Bowl.
With that said, can we get back to the rookie qbs and stop w/mine is bigger than yours?
you can take a perfectly ordinary qb like dilfer, drop him onto a team with the 2000 ravens defense and he can win a ring, but he is still a perfectly ordinary quarterback.
I don't understand all the pontificatation about this subject - but this bit right here is dead nuts on. And to be honest calling Dilfer an ordinary (average) QB is a little on the kind side.
I am happy with the Mayfield pick. Whether or not it was the best pick, only time will tell.
I will state that I would have preferred Darnold, but I understand the Mayfield selection.
The draft last year was funny. After I saw Darnold play Ohio State last year, I really had major questions about him. He didn't "look" right. Everything I read about him looked great. All the experts kept saying that he was probably the best pick in the draft. Everyone kept talking him up on paper, but whenever I pulled up a video of him on Youtube, I just didn't like what I was seeing. Rosen and Mayfield were at least "throwing" like NFL QBs when you watched them. Then the stuff came out about Rosen's attitude and concussion history, and I wasn't exactly thrilled about him either. Mayfield was checking all the boxes for me in the back of my mind, but everyone kept saying he was a mid-first rounder, so by draft day I was sort of sold on Darnold being the pick. It wasn't until after the pick came in that I was thinking, "Now wait, Mayfield isn't that bad of a pick".
People forget that there is 3 years difference in age between Mayfield and Darnold. That has to account for something. They are both in the NFL, but Baker is further along.
Age only means maturity...and according to many on this board it is something Baker lacks...lol
Darnold the youngest is supposedly the most mature.
Sorry if it meant he was a 2nd year red shirt rookie maybe there is a point to be made. Rookie is rookie there is not advantage in NFL game. Now there is a slight advantage in STARTS in college compared to others. In that case Lamar should have a lot of those as well as Baker.
Since all their seasons are now over and I’m avoiding actual writing…
Baker Mayfield:
I’m more confident than ever in the future of the Browns because, in large part, I’m a Baker believer.
I love his combination of accuracy and anticipation, his development as a decision maker, his presence in the pocket, and his relentless pursuit of perfection. Those are key ingredients to great quarterbacking. And his competitiveness, energetic personality lifted this team to new heights. It’s been LeBron-esque in that regard.
Obviously, he had a record-breaking rookie season in only thirteen starts. We all know how well he played. He dropped several dimes this season, he performed in the red zone, etc. If I had to bet, I think he will finish behind Saquon Barkley for AP Offensive Rookie of the Year, but his degree of difficulty was much higher. He came into Cleveland with enormous expectations and exceeded them despite the circumstances.
That said, some areas to address:
1.) Sharper post-snap recognition of muddied coverages.
2.) Better situational awareness.
3.) Reduce freneticism with a collapsing, vulnerable pocket.
Those things aren’t unique to Baker, but I suspect the sour taste of the Ravens game will drive him to improve those aspects of his game, and I expect some his strengths to be even stronger for his sophomore campaign, too.
I’m excited for next season.
Lamar Jackson:
I haven’t seen such polarized discussion of a first-year starter at quarterback since Tim Tebow. My biggest observations on Jackson:
1.) His performance catalyzed Baltimore’s playoff run.
2.) His shortcomings present serious long-term challenges.
3.) His passing ability is more advanced than some argue.
4.) His off-season regimen is more important than his rookie season.
Ultimately, Jackson is a 22-year-old quarterback. He’s shown dynamic playmaking ability, leading to a dominant, multi-dimensional running game. He’s also shown a rash of mechanical issues, leading to scattershot accuracy. Because, at the end of the day, he’s a 22-year-old quarterback. Making declarative statements about his future is a meretricious endeavor.
He’s an elite reactive talent. That much is obvious. But he’s a better passer than Tebow, for example. He is capable of throwing with touch. He can operate within the framework of a passing game, provided consistent mechanics. But, way too often, his mechanics are wildly inconsistent. His base drifts, narrows, and widens from snap-to-snap. That limits his accuracy and arm strength, especially on drive throws and outside the hashes. He also needs to become a more comfortable passer under pressure.
All of that improves with a firm, steady base. Right now, he doesn’t have that. So, if I’m the Ravens, I’m connecting him with a private quarterback coach that can teach him techniques without compromising his explosiveness and improvisation within the pocket. Someone like Quincy Avery, who has worked with Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes.
This off-season is critical for his future. The longer mechanical issues linger, the tougher correcting those issues becomes. He needs an off-season of intensive development for long-term success; however, translating something from the practice field to the game field is easier said than done because everything changes when cornerbacks are stuck to targets and defensive linemen are trying to level you. It requires A LOT of lonely work from January to July.
Disclaimer: I watched fewer games of the following three, so lighter thoughts.
Josh Rosen:
I talked about Mayfield’s degree of difficulty, but Rosen experienced a truly horrendous situation. Except for a few players, the Cardinals lack replacement-level talent on offense. And they paired their barren roster with the barren creativity of Mike McCoy.
For the Cardinals’ sake, I hope Rosen is a talented, tough kid. For the cream of the crop, I’m a believer in the value of experience. Seeing the speed of the NFL game for yourself, practice-after-practice and week-after-week, and acclimating with time. In general, I believe those guys benefit more from playing than shitting. But, man, you can ruin the more marginal cases by exposing him to that kind of shelling.
If one of these quarterbacks deserves an incomplete grade, it’s Rosen. He was asked to development in crisis from the first snap of his rookie season to his last.
Sam Darnold:
Still doubt Darnold as an elite prospect. He’s younger than Mayfield, so I don’t expect him to be as seasoned, but I expect more consistency and competence in the face of pressure. Darnold can sling it when provided with a clean opportunity. But clean opportunities are much rarer in the NFL than college.
That said, he got better as the season progressed, which your primary goals for rookies.
I get a bit of a Ryan Fitzpatrick vibe from Darnold, though.
Josh Allen:
I’ll admit that I had a hard time envisioning a path for success for Allen in the NFL.
After his rookie season, I’m still skeptical on the long-term success, but as another poster intimated, he’s got more of a Cam Newton skill set than I thought. Think Cam is a much better passer, but Allen is an intriguing piece of clay to mold. Now they must surround him with weapons.
If the Bills were sold on Allen in January, I would be interested in hearing why McDermott didn’t hire Chud and/or Ken Dorsey to guide his development. Familiarity with both coaches and they have experience with the skill set.
You're football post inspired me. I'll take a shot at this.
Baker: Had the best year by far of any of the rookie qbs.
What I Liked:
--Leadership. Has an infectious personality that gets others to buy in.
--Plays w/confidence and swag.
--Can be extremely accurate.
--Has a plus arm.
--Moves well in the pocket. Can elude and shrug-off tacklers.
--Really improved at making pre-snap reads.
Where He Can Improve:
--Footwork on some throws. He can get his feet out of whack at times. These are the passes where he typically loses accuracy. Balls tend to be thrown high or wide. He has good feet. Now, it's a matter of discipline and muscle memory.
--Struggles a bit w/post-snap reads. He's great if that first read is open, but holds the ball too long if it isn't.
--Work on the maturity.
Concerns:
--Our OL was awesome. But, I wonder how Baker will respond to quick pressure? I saw some things I did not like against the Chargers, Steelers, and at the end of the Raven game. Tends to get get off his platform and plays a bit harried in those situations. He's not always going to have such great protection.
I'll be back later for my takes on the other guys.
I also think Baker was the best rookie QB, by far. To say I was pleasantly surprised would be an understatement.
There is one other thing i noticed about his game that I would like to see him improve. I have not really seen it mentioned, so maybe I am imagining it, maybe it is not as big of a deal as I think. Not that I see it as catastrophic.
There were times where Baker had a guy wide open 10-12 yards down field but he chose to go deep, to a guy who was not open. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it did not. Somewhat of a gunslinger mentality, but sometimes 12 yards is OK.
I don't see maturity and age all that closely related.
Ok, but it was not I bringing up the age thing as a variable of why a player is better or worse. I was the one saying a rookie is a rookie regardless if he is 21, 22 or 23
Since all their seasons are now over and I’m avoiding actual writing…
If one of these quarterbacks deserves an incomplete grade, it’s Rosen. He was asked to development in crisis from the first snap of his rookie season to his last.
Great post. What do you think replacing Murray with Rosen?
Originally Posted By: Swish
i hope to the moon the Cardinals don't do Rosen like that...
I don't think the Cardinal OL is going to get good enough to protect Rosen. Rosen struggles to escape pressure and he struggles against pressure.
I think it would be a very interesting to see what a dual threat QB like Murray could do with the same personnel.
Murray allows the Cardinals to run a spread-zone-read-RPO offense and a dual threat QB in that type of offense does a lot to mitigate the suckitude of their OL.
Also, Murray's is vastly better then Rosen when it comes to the ability to escape and evade pressure.
This is the game of the week right here. Last year, it took a a 4th down prayer to beat the ravens. Lamar had a hell of a game.
Now, a much a much improved Lamar Jackson vs an improved MVP going head to head again. Hopefully it’s another epic game. Them two have been balling so far.
And let’s not forget about josh allen. 2-0 and looking way more comfortable than he did last year.
I was completely put off by josh allen last season but if he keeps this up, boy oh boy.
I remember reading about Case Keenum and VRT. If Baker is having the issues everyone says, why doesn't someone, a coach, turn him loose with VRT and help him out? I mean if reading defenses is one of his biggest issues as so many claim, wouldn't he want to work on that? Just saying/asking...
Baker Mayfield, No. 1 overall pick, Cleveland Browns: I obviously discussed Mayfield at length above, but basically, the bodacious QB1 is in the midst of a sophomore slump that has resulted in his completion percentage, yards per attempt and passer rating all dropping from his rookie year. Mayfield's woes can partially be attributed to the Browns' leaky offensive line and their play-caller struggling to find his way. With 19 interceptions on his resume in 17 appearances, Mayfield's turnover woes are problematic for a Browns team that was expected to compete in the AFC. Grade: B-
Sam Darnold, No. 3 overall pick, New York Jets: After seeing Darnold show promise at the end of his rookie season, the football world was waiting with bated breath to see if he would emerge as a Pro Bowl-caliber player under new coach Adam Gase. The respected quarterback guru has helped young signal-callers find their way in the past, and Jets officials were optimistic that No. 14 would enjoy a breakout season. Unfortunately, mononucleosis put Darnold on the shelf following the season opener, which wasn't a bad effort against Buffalo (completed 28 of 41 passes for 175 yards with a score). And his absence kinda blows up the grading process. Grade: INC
Josh Allen, No. 7 overall pick, Buffalo Bills: It's not always pretty with No. 17, but it has worked for the Bills to this point. The second-year pro has guided his team to a 3-0 start utilizing his exceptional athleticism, running skills and big arm to create explosive plays. While Allen's turnover issues and inconsistent accuracy have put the team behind the eight ball at times, he has made enough plays to help the offense score enough points to complement a defense that's playing at a high level. Allen is the NFL's second-leading rusher at quarterback and he continues to befuddle defenses with his improvisational style. Grade: B-
Josh Rosen, No. 10 overall pick, Arizona Cardinals (now with the Miami Dolphins): It's just unfair to grade Rosen against his classmates when he has repeatedly been on the short end of the stick. After suffering significantly as a rookie from a lackluster offensive line, No. 3 was unceremoniously traded to Miami when new Cardinals coach Kliff Kingsbury opted for an athletic playmaker to run his system in the desert. The Dolphins didn't do Rosen any favors when they auctioned off the team's blue-chip players for draft picks, throwing him into a suspect starting lineup (especially on the O-line) to audition for the QB1 job in 2020 and beyond. Reviewing the tape, Rosen has shown courage and toughness while taking a beating in the pocket, but he hasn't received a legitimate opportunity to showcase his passing skills due to underwhelming cast around him. Rosen has seen several quality balls slip through his receivers' hands. Grade: INC
Lamar Jackson, No. 32 overall pick, Baltimore Ravens: No. 8 has shown tremendous improvement as a passer/playmaker from the pocket. He has been consistently on time and on target with his throws to the perimeter, as evidenced by his 63 percent completion rate and 7:0 TD-to-INT ratio. Jackson has remained a frightening threat as a runner (NFL-best 192 rushing yards for QB), while significantly cutting down his rushing attempts in Baltimore's ground-and-pound, option-based offense. As a passer, Jackson has shown improved accuracy, touch and ball placement on intermediate throws between the numbers and on deep shots down the boundary. He's been better than expected as a passer in Year 2, which is one of the reasons why the Ravens (2-1) are emerging as a dark-horse contender in the AFC. Grade: A-
You and Swish can pat yourselves on the back. He looks to be the best qb in that class. Congrats. Glad you showed up to point that out.
I've been around here and there.
And this thread does keep track of the QBs from that draft and we all spent a lot of time talking/arguing/discussing those QBs. I personally took a lot of abuse and vitriol during the QB discussions. So yeah, I like to keep track of how it all pans out.
But, it was big of you to admit the above even if it seemed sarcastic....I doubt we'll see eotab and some of the others.
I wasn't being sarcastic. On the other hand, you haven't posted on here much in the last year or so. I wasn't high on Lamar before the draft, but I have defended him on here. Also, I would like to add that it's early.
Baker and Lamar have been put in great situations. Darnold, Rosen, and Allen have not.
He’s talking about the GM and the talent out around him.
We aren’t just talking year 1 anymore. Now we’re looking at both seasons. And what he said was true, although I have to say I think I’d put allen over baker as far as good situations go, as Allen has a better HC.
I also think we’d be having different conversations if we kept the same offense from last year. Then we SHOULDVE been talking about which QB is having the better season: baker or Lamar.
This year there is a lot of good around Baker - and the team *should* be better than it is based on talent. However we do have a new skill player in OBJ who didn't play much preseason and we have new HC who is struggling. And while the terminology of the O is being kept - this is a new offense, and the play calling is questionable. . . . Sophomore Slump is a common term/label and Baker definitely seems to be experiencing one. Let's let Baker work through the his own and the teams current issues and see how he comes out the other side.
Lamar has surpassed my expectations - his electric running was never in doubt, but playing a complete game and finding ways to win through the air and ground are impressive. That said, regardless of his ability to avoid most contact - he's going to get hit and nicked up, the league is too physical and the players too fast for that not to happen with how he plays.
He’s talking about the GM and the talent out around him.
We aren’t just talking year 1 anymore. Now we’re looking at both seasons. And what he said was true, although I have to say I think I’d put allen over baker as far as good situations go, as Allen has a better HC.
I also think we’d be having different conversations if we kept the same offense from last year. Then we SHOULDVE been talking about which QB is having the better season: baker or Lamar.
You contradicted yourself here.
Baker is on his third head coach and at least second offense.
My rebuttal to that, however, is that as long as Lamar takes those steps needed to be a better passer, he’s not gonna run as much.
Just look at how he plays in the pocket. First, he’s been making plays in the pocket, but when it breaks down, he’s still looking throw when he scrambles unless there’s just nothing but grass in front of him ( I understand the threshold of what’s considered “open grass” is different with him compared to other QBs).
And more importantly, he actually listens. Dude heard all the criticism about him last year, and what did he do?
Tried to put on weight and focus on developing as a better passer. And he’s got RG3 and his mentor Vick constantly in his ear so that he doesn’t make the same mistakes as they did.
When Dorsey brought in baker, he got a team with a decent O line, Chubb, Landry, and other pieces. Dorsey has already overhauled the roster. And the coaching was more stable with Williams at the helm.
And even with kitchens, baker got another massive weapon in OBJ.
So yea, at least at the beginning, baker was in a much better situation than josh Allen and Rosen.
To compare Baker and Lamar is disengenious at this point, and will be at any other point. They are TWO completely different types of players for 1. It is hard to compare Lamar to anyone, because hes just a different cat. I mean, you can compare him to other scrambling Qbs MAYBE, and the most obvious would be Vick, but Lamar is only in his second year. He could get better as a thrower and in the pocket, or he could not regress. We will have to see. Vick was a runner first his whole career. I think Lamar has a chance to become a throw first guy, but we will have to see. But to compare him Baker - just really apples and oranges simply for the type of styles they have.
Then, if you throw them into the situations they were drafted in - One was picked overall for a reason, and one was picked 30th for a reason. Those reasons, are because one team was a dumpster fire, and the other a perennial division champ. Even in down years, they are .500 team. we haven't been .500 or above in over decade.
You can say Baker was put into a better scenario or sitation, but that's just not true. I don't care the weapons he has on offense. As we are seeing, TALENT doesn't mean jack, if the talent don't know where to line up, commits penalties and turnovers, and has no chemistry. OBJ is so talented, then why is he dropping balls in his basket left and right? Why is he a non factor each week? It all because of baker.
Baker has had Three HC, and three offenses in 2 years. I don't care the talent you have on the roster, that's not a recipe for success. And if you think it was, you were drunk.
You cannot compare any player on this Browns team to anyone else, because are plain and simple - year in year out, a mess. There is a black cloud on this franchise, and nothing will or can break it. I am convinced that no matter what, we will have our players kicking out the ball from our RB, or having our Pro Bowl LG let a lineman through to intercept a pitch to the WR. Its just going to happen and will never stop.
QBs in the same draft class get compared all the time. People still compare that 04 draft class of Manning, rivers, and Big Ben.
Nobody is comparing actual style of play.
I am not saying they don't, I am saying its dumb to do so.
Manning, rivers and Ben are closer to playing style with each other than Lamar is to anyone else in the league currently. There's not a QB like him right now to compare him too.
I am not taking a shot at him, in fact, that's a compliment. He is a unique and gifted player. I think if he continues to show the growth he has in the pocket, and still improve in that area, he can write his own ticket.
I just don't see how its fair to compare two different vastly different types of QBs, who were drafted into 2 complete different scenarios (one an established NFL team with a productive and stable Front Office, and the other the biggest laughingstock and joke the NFL has ever seen).
Baker is most talented QB we have ever had since 99, and he is a mess right now, and that's mainly in part because well....the Browns. I can honestly see the writing on the wall, it is JUST SO BROWNS. Rookie record TD holder to bust in a year time frame. Why wouldn't that be our story here? lol.
Heck, now that I am talking about it, I don't think its fair to compare ANY Browns Qb to ANY other Qb, simply because.....well the Browns.
Jackson can make the wide open plays when they are there to be made. He is not a guy who can make really accurate passes in tight windows, or throw receivers open.
He is quite possibly the best runner from the QB position I have ever seen. I don't think I have seen many times where he allows a defender to line up and put a good hit on him when he is running. He is a below average passer, but their offense almost requires teams to look run 1st .... and that allows him some wide open looks. He throws to the TEs and RBs a lot. (87 of his 136 completions have gone to these 2 position groups) The Ravens have crafted an offense that is taking advantage of his strengths, and he is performing. He is doing better than I ever thought he would.
Jackson can make the wide open plays when they are there to be made. He is not a guy who can make really accurate passes in tight windows, or throw receivers open.
He is quite possibly the best runner from the QB position I have ever seen. I don't think I have seen many times where he allows a defender to line up and put a good hit on him when he is running. He is a below average passer, but their offense almost requires teams to look run 1st .... and that allows him some wide open looks. He throws to the TEs and RBs a lot. (87 of his 136 completions have gone to these 2 position groups) The Ravens have crafted an offense that is taking advantage of his strengths, and he is performing. He is doing better than I ever thought he would.
I don't think you are being fair. He is not a conventional QB, but he is a good passer, specially because he does not require a stable platform to throw.
He is also quite accurate in the long ball, which is what you want from a QB that can buy time with their feet.
For sure he is not a WCO type of QB, but that does not make him a bad passer, specially because he does not require a high completion % to be effective. He is an explosive passer, like Deshaun, receivers are open because he buys them time, so he does not have to pass int tight windows all the time.
Jackson can make the wide open plays when they are there to be made. He is not a guy who can make really accurate passes in tight windows
See this is where it gets dicey. Because I'm not trying to rile things up nor 'go at' anybody. I just want to have an actual discussion and bring some advanced stats to the table and some film when I can. I know previously these discussion have gone off the rails, which was never my intention but it happened often anyway. I just wanted to put that caveat out there. And also, I've never hid the fact that I wasn't a Brown's fan but I tried to be a respectful poster because I like this forum and its members. Enough caveat and preamble....
People often go off general impressions, which is fine, but general impression aren't always correct.
And I think the issue I was having was the sheer dismal of all the stats and evidence that contradicted narrative around Lamar and imho this post is a prime example.
You say Lamar can't hit tight windows? So I'm show one of the best throws into tight coverage that I've watched all season:
And you tell me if that is a counter example to your general impression or not.
I love football now more then ever because there more public advanced stats/analytics now then ever before. You say Lamar is making 'wide open' throws when they are there. But the data and film (which I don't fault nor expect you to watch a bunch of Ravens games) tell a different story:
Aggressiveness (AGG%) Aggressiveness tracks the amount of passing attempts a quarterback makes that are into tight coverage, where there is a defender within 1 yard or less of the receiver at the time of completion or incompletion. AGG is shown as a % of attempts into tight windows over all passing attempts.
Lamar Jackson is at 14.7% ahead of:
Derek Carr Kyler Murray Teddy Bridgewater Jared Goff Josh Allen Tom Brady Aaron Rodgers Jimmy Garoppolo Joe Flacco Matt Ryan Patrick Mahomes Kirk Cousins Drew Brees
I gotta run, i'll finish this thought when I get the chance. I hope at least people will remember that when I posted about Lamar I wasn't just giving opinion and saying oh he's so great. I hope people remember that I brought information, research and film that went against the media narrative around Lamar especially in comparison to Rosen and Darnold. And I don't mean this to toot my horn, but I hope that people will take my posts as layman who took time and effort to learn as much as I could about evaluation and posted real information....even going back to Trubisky vs Watson.
You and Swish can pat yourselves on the back. He looks to be the best qb in that class. Congrats. Glad you showed up to point that out.
Way to early to be patting yourself on the back for that ... it was a class move by Ed though ...
I put my QB evaluations out there for all to see. I was wrong about some...I liked Connor Cook and was wrong (although off the field and undisclosed arm injury are mitigating factors imho)...I like Paxton Lynch and was dead wrong....but I was right about others.
If this was truly me patting myself on the back it would be much louder. Swish has been keeping a the comparison stat thread since last year. Its just an update and continuation. I don't recall you expressing the idea it was to early to pat yourself on the back about Baker last year. Why is continuing an ongoing discussion patting on the back now?
...He is a below average passer, but their offense almost requires teams to look run 1st .... and that allows him some wide open looks. He throws to the TEs and RBs a lot. (87 of his 136 completions have gone to these 2 position groups) The Ravens have crafted an offense that is taking advantage of his strengths, and he is performing. He is doing better than I ever thought he would.
Saying he is a below passer simply ain't true. He's never been a below average passer his college stats bare this out.
True, Lamar does throw to his TEs a lot....he's not blessed with a WRs corps anywhere near as close to the Browns. Their top 2 WRs are a rookie who's been hurt most of the year and another 3rd year rookie WR their best veteran WR is a castoff. Jackson doesn't really throw to RBs that much but throwing to his TEs is a function of personnel not because of a lack of ability. You can look at his passing stats and clearly see the ability is there
I wasn't being sarcastic. On the other hand, you haven't posted on here much in the last year or so. I wasn't high on Lamar before the draft, but I have defended him on here. Also, I would like to add that it's early.
Baker and Lamar have been put in great situations. Darnold, Rosen, and Allen have not.
Fair enough, i'll take you at your word and retract that your post was sarcastic.
I post every now and again, most of them pass on without reply and I watch fewer Browns game and have much less to say.
I agree that Darnold, Rosen and Allen weren't thrown into great situations. But, Allen is helping his team by using his legs...I'm still waiting for the Bills to get really smart and use Allen more in their run game....like a Cam Newton light. Rosen and Darnold weren't put in great situations but Darnold started playing well down the stretch last year but they brought in a QB whisper and he has regressed. Rosen again, for me, is limited by his lack of ability to evade pressure. He can throw it with the best of them when he's protected and has talent around him. And his inability to avoid pressure showed in his pressure numbers...he was pressured a lot and was terrible against pressure.
He threw for 163 yards against the Pats. That is sub-par, by far. Now I am not saying that he didn't carry out their game plan extremely well ..... because he did ..... but the team threw for 163 yards and ran for 201. They also had a defensive TD, which helped their cause. He did well against the Pats defense, who had stopped every other QB this season.
If the Ravens can execute their offense, and run the ball a lot, then Jackson can be a capable QB. If their run game gets stopped, then I do not believe that he can beat a quality team with his arm alone.
He threw for 163 yards against the Pats. That is sub-par, by far.
I don’t follow your logic here? Quality of play isn’t determined by volume. Saying Lamar had a sub par game...by far? That sounds like empty rhetoric that even contradicts your own statement here:
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...He did well against the Pats defense, who had stopped every other QB this season.
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...I do not believe that he can beat a quality team with his arm alone.
Thats a reasonable belief because, again, (1) the Ravens WRs group is the weakest area of the team (2) their interior OL is the second weakest area of the team; therefore executing an offense solely reliant on drop back passing is going to be a struggle for any QB in that situation. And on the whole beating ANY team solely with the passing doesn’t happen often regardless of the QB. So you are creating a weird standard or judging by a criteria that most QBs don’t meet even your own and that’s despite have good enough WRs.
With all that being said IF the Ravens/Lamar had to play rely on just the passing game you would probably get the volume passing yardage numbers that you apparently think make a QB good but Lamar’s efficiency would be way down. His production would be a cross between Lamar’s Louisville year’s + Vick in ATL + Matt Staffords/Brett Favre’s early years just running around sliming it. Would interesting to see.
But to hold your opinion despite all Lamar’s production seems defensive.
He’s only 22. And yet his arm alone has better numbers that baker, Darnold, and Allen, who were suppose to be good passers, remember?
Allen is more like Cam, but Rosen had such a better arm than Lamar that....he can’t see the field. Baker has such a better arm than Lamar that...he has 7 TDs to 12 picks. Darnold....Lol.
Look what the pats did to Darnold. Wasn’t he suppose to be a way better passer than Lamar?
Running the ball, executing game plan. You’re acting like that ain’t the game plan for most QBs in this league, especially younger ones. Like somehow that only applies to Lamar.
At some point you’re gonna have to admit you were wrong.
Edit: oh yea, go look at their completion percentage. If Lamar’s passing is subpar, then what does that make the other 4 first rounders in his draft class?
He’s only 22. And yet his arm alone has better numbers that baker, Darnold, and Allen, who were suppose to be good passers, remember?
Allen is more like Cam, but Rosen had such a better arm than Lamar that....he can’t see the field. Baker has such a better arm than Lamar that...he has 7 TDs to 12 picks. Darnold....Lol.
Look what the pats did to Darnold. Wasn’t he suppose to be a way better passer than Lamar?
Running the ball, executing game plan. You’re acting like that ain’t the game plan for most QBs in this league, especially younger ones. Like somehow that only applies to Lamar.
At some point you’re gonna have to admit you were wrong.
Edit: oh yea, go look at their completion percentage. If Lamar’s passing is subpar, then what does that make the other 4 first rounders in his draft class?
They said the same thing about Deshaun, what people fail to realize is that mobile QB's need good arms and elite arm talent to be successful.
My only knock on Lamar was his maturity but for sure he has proven me wrong, the Kid is a natural, its a joy to watch him play.
@SethWalder: Lamar Jackson recorded a QBR of 99.7 tonight, a season-high for all QBs.
Jackson has recorded the 3 highest QBR games this season, all 99s. Not only is he the first QB to post three 99 QBR games in a season, he's the first to have 3 such games in the metric's history (since ‘06)
Originally Posted By: NFL Total QBR Rating
Lamar Jackson – 81.9 Patrick Mahomes – 76.9 Dak Prescott – 75.0 Russell Wilson – 74.1 Deshaun Watson – 70.1
Not going to take anything away from Lamar. His improvement as a passer and quarterback is to his credit.
However, major credit goes to the Raven organization.They drafted him.
Then they committed to him by moving Flacco.
And last they built an offense to take full advantage of Lamar's skills. Not only did they build the offense but they have made it work.
They re-wrote the playbook. They designed blocking schemes to feature running the ball but based upon deception. They implemented RPO's to where Lamar has run/pass options that are hard cover because of the fear Lamar brings as a runner. Their offense is leading all the NFL.
That is hard to accomplish in a run first scheme.
When Lamar does throw it guys are open because of how it is set up. And Lamer has made it work because of his improvement as a passer.
If Lamar has gone to a different team and been forced into a WCO or spread offense and was forced to play that way. The outcome would most likely be different.
Not going to take anything away from Lamar. His improvement as a passer and quarterback is to his credit.
Here is the thing though. You overstate his level of improvement because you misjudged his ability as passer from the outset. People underestimated Lamar's ability as a passer because of a bogus media narrative that people bought into but that narrative simply wasn't true. You can go back and look at Lamar's stats as passer in college and he was just as good as Rosen IF not better and the stats bore that out.
Originally Posted By: bonefish
...However, major credit goes to the Raven organization.....They re-wrote the playbook. They designed blocking schemes to feature running the ball but based upon deception. They implemented RPO's to where Lamar has run/pass options that are hard cover because of the fear Lamar brings as a runner. Their offense is leading all the NFL.
To be clear the Browns use more RPOs then the Ravens. The Ravens use read-option and misdirection not RPOs.
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When Lamar does throw it guys are open because of how it is set up. And Lamer has made it work because of his improvement as a passer.
Not true. Lamar's receivers are less wide open then Baker...the receiver separations stats are available at NFL Next gen stats I posted them before. And again, you're overstating Lamar's improvement as passer because he was already just as good if not a better passer then the other QBs in the draft class (except for Baker who was better).
If he was such a great passer he would have been drafted way higher than he was. That is a fact.
Read option is Run/Pass Option. It is the same thing.
Look at the completion % improvement for last year as a pro and this year.
Why do you think the narrative from people like Boogar McFarland (who I have great respect for) and many scouts was Lamar should change positions? Become a runner or receiver?
Because his throwing ability in college was not very good. Not just in completion %. Just in general. I saw him over throw guys by 5 yards and more. He was at best inconsistent.
I give Lamar major credit. It very hard to improve bad mechanics in such a short time.
I am in his court. But make no mistake what you are seeing now; was not what he was in college or even last year.
Not going to take anything away from Lamar. His improvement as a passer and quarterback is to his credit.
However, major credit goes to the Raven organization.They drafted him.
Then they committed to him by moving Flacco.
And last they built an offense to take full advantage of Lamar's skills. Not only did they build the offense but they have made it work.
They re-wrote the playbook. They designed blocking schemes to feature running the ball but based upon deception. They implemented RPO's to where Lamar has run/pass options that are hard cover because of the fear Lamar brings as a runner. Their offense is leading all the NFL.
That is hard to accomplish in a run first scheme.
When Lamar does throw it guys are open because of how it is set up. And Lamer has made it work because of his improvement as a passer.
If Lamar has gone to a different team and been forced into a WCO or spread offense and was forced to play that way. The outcome would most likely be different.
Right guy to the right team.
Agree with everything u said .... he's throwing the ball much better now than he did ... well EVER .. still not sold that its good enough .... jury’s still out for me ....
he’s had a great run since our game .... not sure why others aren’t emulating our game plan ...
I do love watching him play ... he’d be a great RB .... never thought there’d be a better running QB than Steve Young .... this dude may be ... he’s dynamic as heck .... lots of fun to watch ... if he keeps it up the only thing that will stink is the fact he’s in our division ...
Still not sold ... but damm is on a great run and trending way way up ...
This is why it’s so infuriating to talk about Lamar AND baker.
People just can’t enjoy the ride. Always “he might get hurt” or whatever it is about baker.
It’s like y’all got personal bets on who will be better, like y’all put the house on the line without telling your wife.
Baker has a chance to be better over a longer period of time. But right now Lamar is that dude and is putting on a show unseen since Vick. Just enjoy it man damn.
If he was such a great passer he would have been drafted way higher than he was. That is a fact.
Not even close to a fact. This is the definition of spurious. This post is an example of circular reasoning at its finest.
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Read option is Run/Pass Option. It is the same thing.
C'mon I thought you knew football? A Read-Option and a Run-Pass Option are NOT the same thing. Ask your boy diam.
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Look at the completion % improvement for last year as a pro and this year.
And.....
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Why do you think the narrative from people like Boogar McFarland (who I have great respect for) and many scouts was Lamar should change positions? Become a runner or receiver?
Um because they were dead dog wrong and many have admitting to being wrong like your boy Booger.
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Because his throwing ability in college was not very good.
This is factually incorrect and it was posted at the time by myself and others prior to Lamar success. Do I need to drag up all the stats that proved that Lamar was just as good if not better as a passer then the other QBs in his draft class? (excluding Bake)
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I give Lamar major credit. It very hard to improve bad mechanics in such a short time.
No its not just very hard its impossible to improve from where YOU think Lamar was a passer (then) to where he is now. It's not something just tweaking mechanics can accomplish.
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But make no mistake what you are seeing now; was not what he was in college or even last year.
Its fun watching and reading the mental gymnastics some will go to just so they don't have to admit that their assessment of Lamar was dead ass wrong.
I stated I don't know how many times I was wrong about Lamar. When looking at what he doing now.
I don't care what college stat you show. I saw his tape.
The facts remains if he was so highly rated as a passer in college; he would have been drafted higher.
What is so difficult to understand about that?
I could care less what you posted before. That does not mean you were correct.
Anybody with knowledge about the position looking at Lamar in college would come to the same conclusion.
He has a long way to go to become a NFL passer. That assessment is not derogatory. He won a Heisman. It has to do with him throwing the ball.
Completion % improvement. You stated he didn't improve because he was already accurate. I know Boogar admitted it. He was wrong like many others including myself. He didn't just tweek his mechanics. If you want to discuss throwing a football. Anytime.
Read option and RPO are basically the same. Read option is still a double option. Zone blocking directional with the read option of where to run. Passer has an option. RPO is still a double option. Run it or pass it. Don't need to be told.
Go back and pretend you knew it all along. That he was the most accurate passer in college. And you know more than people like MacFarland.
I am not one to say I am right all the time. But I have broken down more quarterback play and been right way more than I have been wrong. Pull the archives around draft time for like the last ten years.
I stated I don't know how many times I was wrong about Lamar. When looking at what he doing now.
Lol, that's the whole point. You don't even need to look at what Lamar is doing now.....your assessment was wrong back then.
All you've ever had was empty rhetoric and "eye test" claims. No film, no stats. My point all along has been to just look at the evidence and the evidence showed Lamar was a good passer. It always had. The narrative surrounding Lamar was WRONG! It was wrong then and it remains wrong now.
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I don't care what college stat you show.
No offense but this is a dumb way to argue, especially about modern day football.
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The facts remains if he was so highly rated as a passer in college; he would have been drafted higher.
No bonefish, that is hardly a fact. Its just circular reasoning. It's nonsensical to judge Lamar's actual production based on his draft status. You understand that Lamar's production is real and his draft status literally has no impact on his production. That's just silly pseudo-logic. But, it easy to make these spurious statements because when the facts are shown you'll just say you don't care about them...lol.
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I could care less what you posted before. That does not mean you were correct.
Of course you care. If you didn't care then you wouldn't protest so much and we could just have a discussion about the thread topic.
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Anybody with knowledge about the position looking at Lamar in college would come to the same conclusion.
Not true at all. Different people have differing valuations and assessments on the same prospect all the time. Many draft media had ill-informed takes on Lamar that were easily disproven by either watching Louisville games or even a cursory look at the QB draft prospect stats.
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He has a long way to go to become a NFL passer. That assessment is not derogatory.
Its not derogatory its just wrong and defensive and clearly illustrates why you were wrong before and from the looks of this comment remain wrong now.
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You stated he didn't improve because he was already accurate.
Nope. That's not what I stated by why let that stop you?
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Read option and RPO are basically the same...
Lol, c'mon now. You made a statement that was wrong. Read-option and RPOs are not the same thing and the Ravens don't use many RPOs. The Browns use more RPOs then the Ravens that was your point and now you're trying to backpedal away from a simple mistake you made that's not a even a big deal its an honest mistake people make all the time. But point remains they are not the same thing like you said they were.
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Go back and pretend you knew it all along. That he was the most accurate passer in college.
I don't need to pretend because I posted it with STATs! And again don't make stuff up you can quote what I said and I didn't say he was the most accurate passer in college.
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And you know more than people like MacFarland.
Even media experts can be wrong and yes there were a bunch of them that had wrong takes and wrong narratives about Lamar Jackson.
Don’t bother with this dude .... he only understands stats and not the game of football ... its been evident since his first post proclaiming RG3 would be our savior and was extremely accurate .....
I disagreed and we’ve been great friends ever since ... *L* ....
Seriously ... he’s a stat dude who couldn’t have been any more wrong about RG3 and now look how he’s twisting your words .... waste of time bro ...
Don’t bother with this dude .... he only understands stats and not the game of football ... its been evident since his first post proclaiming RG3 would be our savior and was extremely accurate .....
I disagreed and we’ve been great friends ever since ... *L* ....
Seriously ... he’s a stat dude who couldn’t have been any more wrong about RG3 and now look how he’s twisting your words .... waste of time bro ...
Some people actually breakdown football and like to discuss it. Others like to state their opinions as facts yet provide NO SUPPORT for their opinions just empty rhetoric.
Instead of discussing the information put forth you/they make personal attacks the and ignore the stats. You make claims about film but ignore the film that is ACTUALLY posted and you/posse NEVER post any film of your own.....despite making claims about film.
In short you ignore, attack whatever you don’t agree with and you make up false claims. I never said Grifffin was your savior, But naturally you dislike the QB that actually brought you a win despite the team all around him actively tanking and the team went on to go winless without him but you think that makes your point, lol.
And you press on despite being wrong... go back to your “evals” Mitch over inaccurate Watson. You guys are the only people in this forum I’ve had problems with OR more accurately you guys are the only ones that have had problems with me. You, bone, eotab etc...Other poster have told me it’s becausr you guys are threatened by the information.
How could where a player is drafted impact his college production? What?
No, what he does and how he does it in college impacts where he is drafted.
College stats vs. NFL production.
Lets see here. NFL teams dedicate massive resources to scout college players. People, time, money, work and careers are at stake on the selections.
And because you post how Louisville and Lamar does against Kent State you have all the data needed?
No variables in college games nothing to look at there the stats tell it all.
"Empty rhetoric and eye tests." Rhetoric and eye tests yes, that is exactly what I have. "Empty" oh, ouch, the pain.
Evidence? Read the scouting reports on Lamar in college. Pick the ones that you feel are legit. No wait. Open your eyes. That is what the NFL community does when they evaluate players.
But who needs to argue? You have all the answers.
Maybe Monday Night Football lost your number and just thought, "hey will call this Booger guy."
Since you know how college quarterbacks will perform in the NFL they must be beating a path to your doorstop Ed?
Maybe you should start a draft consulting business. You might need to freshen up your resume with all the BS you spout.
I have serious doubts that you have any clue about the quarterback position and anything that has to do with throwing a football?
Tim Tebow had great college stats how did that work out?
Show me your breakdown on Tebow.
You want to call me out?
I watch games. Every once in awhile I comment on what I see. Never claimed to be an expert. Don't make a living in professional football.
But you are the expert. I will make sure that I follow all of what you write because I need the education.
Happy Thanksgiving Ed. I am thankful for all you post.
You guys have made great contributions to the the thread! Whenever you guys post, like in the past, it’s always insightful. Thanks again for the great convo and contribution. Now that you’re done proclaiming that lol your evals of Lamar as a passer were correct maybe you’ll let the rest of us get back to the thread topic?
I feel the amount of Lamar humping on this thread is getting gross and sticky.
Dont root for a division rival.
Whats wrong with you people?
Agreed. I wish all opposing AFCN draft picks are busts. I wish short careers (I didn’t say injuries.. ) for talented opposing players. Even beloved Buckeyes become dead to me when they wear rival NFL colors. I have no interest in fantasy football as I have no desire to root for non Browns.
May Lamar come back to earth. May his career end without championships or many playoff appearances. I see him no differently that I saw Mason Rudolph before our last game with them. The enemy.
This is a continuation thread from last year. Where were all the gripes about QB comparisons last year and the beginning of this year? But all of sudden, now that Lamar is in the running for NFL MVP this thread is drawing all this negativity.
...If the Ravens can execute their offense, and run the ball a lot, then Jackson can be a capable QB. If their run game gets stopped, then I do not believe that he can beat a quality team with his arm alone.
I posted to update this QB draft class comparison especially since 2 of the top QBs in the class just played.
I wasn't making a further point.
For what its worth I don't think Baker is bust or washed. And I think Stefanski will be good for him in the long run.
But, since YOU asked....jumping off from your post...my point would be that like the 'experts' a lot of people in this forum were wrong about Lamar. Not just were they wrong they were belligerently wrong.
I put up with a LOT of BS for just breaking down Lamar's college film and attempting to have open debate about the QB analysis and showing with film where some posters and experts were wrong about Lamar. For whatever reason there was a LOT of animus directed at me because of it.
I find it amusing that some of those same posters still can't admit that there assessments were wrong.
It's funny as hell.
Lamar Jackson success is extra sweet because of the exchanges I had in this forum for merely posting breakdowns and stats that showed how their assessment of Lamar as college prospect were off.
Its rare that a college prospect's analysis proves to be this spot on.
....
