Stump Mitchell RB's, Adam Henry WR's, Ryan Lindley QB's, John Lilly TE's.
I was struck by their professionalism. All had that coaching mentality. "Get better every day."
All echoed an underlying respect for Freddie. They Liked the way he went about his business. All mentioned how he has delegated authority and let them all know what is expected.
All seemed to acknowledged the talent. Had positive things to say about Baker has a leader.
Stump mentioned more than a couple times how well Hilliard has done. He mentioned that Freddie was high on Hilliard. His respect for the depth of talent. He knows these runners very well. Has had previous experience with most of them.
Lilly TE'S, said he is looking for Njoku and DeValve to be consistent. It is there but it is not there at all times.
Adam Henry of course knows Jarvis and Odell. Knows how they work and what to expect from them. He was pleased with Callaway and how he has come back as an improved player.
Ryan Lindley spoke of Baker and how driven he is. How he is able to get everyone on the same page.
None of this is earth shattering. However, there is a vibe. The overall energy and knowledge is impressive.
My take away is that from head coach, coordinators, and position coaches, we have a solid professional staff. All appear to be excited to be with the Browns and the opportunity in front of them.
Overall I see a solid group. Experienced straight forward guys.
I am sure that Dorsey assisted Freddie. At least as far as candidates.
Once camp breaks in late July it will get serious. This time of year it is important for the young guys and the guys trying to make the team.
I keep imaging the offense. Once these guys find the groove they will be hard to stop. We have the right mix of youth and experience but the talent is undeniable.
Good insights, Bonefish, and I agree with it as a good group, and I am cautious at the same time. With this group of coaches and the way Kitchens is using them, I hope we game plan better, and also that we troubleshoot better and adjust on the fly better. All about game prowess. I say that because of the sting I still get when I remember week after week how we "We really practiced well" and lost games.
We need to win games. Played hard, fans do not need to be told you "battled." Our coaches' in-game game has been weak. I think we are mentally tougher now.
I was struck by their professionalism. All had that coaching mentality. "Get better every day."
With these guys its a mantra and not just something said at the opening presser ... These guys are all on the same page ... i think that was a huge priority on the traits list during the hiring process .... being a team guy and understanding u don’t know it all or have all the best ideas ....
Quote:
All echoed an underlying respect for Freddie. They Liked the way he went about his business. All mentioned how he has delegated authority and let them all know what is expected.
That starts at the top and Dorsey got his guy 100% in this aspect and it was one of the huge advantages Freddie had with that year long interview ... sounds like he was raised that way and he’s not changing who he is for no one or nothing ... ANOTHER thing the players love and respect about him ...
When these guys who we hired called around to find out about Freddie from those that worked with him before it sounds like all they got was glowing remarks from both former coaches and players ... there’s a reason the Tuna and Arians and many many others speak so highly of the dude and who he is as a coach and person ...
Not sure what happened but everything else bone posted is gone now ... to be continued ...
This coaching staff is extraordinary. While other staffs are calling their players pieces of crap,these guys are praising their players. They should all be placed in the HOF immediately.
CLEVELAND, Ohio —Browns quarterbacks coach Ryan Lindley hopes to travel to Norman, Oklahoma over the next month or so to pick Lincoln Riley’s brains about Baker Mayfield and his high-flying Air Raid offense.
Riley guided Mayfield and Kyler Murray to back-to-back Heisman Trophies and back-to-back No. 1 overall picks in the 2018 and 2019 draft, with Murray going to Arizona and making Josh Rosen expendable.
"Obviously the guy's busy running a powerhouse college football program, so I'm sure it would be tough to try to fit into his schedule, but I'd love to,’’ Lindley said Thursday after Browns’ OTAs. “Yeah, obviously, after this next week, we've got a little time off and hopefully we can do that. I'd still love to pick Lincoln's brain and those guys out there in Norman."
Lindley, the former NFL quarterback who promoted from Browns running backs coach last year to quarterbacks this year, is determined to do anything possible to help Mayfield succeed and has even watched a ton of film of Murray to pick up clues.
“Obviously, knowing where (a guy’s) from, especially young guys, kind of where their baseline is, it'd be great to see what they're thinking,’’ Lindley said. “You kind of have a good idea of what they do, but you just want to see how they ingrain the things. The great tools Baker has right now, you can even see it in Kyler, so obviously that's coming from somewhere. They're teaching that there. They do a very good job of developing quarterbacks. You'd love to kind of see some of the things that they do to make that happen."
The Browns have also hired former Oklahoma graduate assistant Tyler Tettleton to bring a little of the Riley magic here to the lakefront. Tettleton was in Oklahoma with Mayfield from 2015 to 2017 when the Sooners won the Big 12 Championship three times and Mayfield won the Heisman.
“As much as we can do,’’ said Lindley. “I think it was great to bring Tyler in because once Tyler got in and while the players weren’t still here, he and I were in here kind of putting together some of the playbook. The biggest thing for me obviously I got to know Baker in the eight weeks that I was here at the end of the season but getting to know really how kind of certain thing that he picks. He’s been in a room with him for four years, for an extended period of time, having Tyler and knowing kind of what Baker thinks, where we can go back if we want to do some things like they did at Oklahoma, Tyler can be a great reference for that, so he’s been great for us.”
My take away is that from head coach, coordinators, and position coaches, we have a solid professional staff. All appear to be excited to be with the Browns and the opportunity in front of them.
Guess there wasn’t much left ... *L*
There’s a reason guys like Arians were actively lobbying for this job .... everyone wanted it cause of the talent we had and the cap space we had to acquire more ... then u add a dude as well respected and liked as Freddie and your going to get quality coaches throughout the staff ....
And the fact some of the O coaches worked with and got to know those guys makes the learning curve a lot less steep ...
Off topic some but I’m wondering with Freddie calling plays, will Monken be on the sidelines working with the players directly, or up in the booth giving Freddie his birds eye view? I’ve always thought calling from the booth would allow for a better understanding of what was actually happening on the field. Thoughts?
I would think Monken might be an "on the field" OC with us, talking to our offense between possessions and during time outs since Freddie will have his hands full with other things.
Though, like you, I could see how it might be beneficial to have that booth perspective to speak into Freddie's ear.
I was going to make a new thread, but decided to put this here.
I am worried about Steve Wilks for a few reasons.
The first is that his defensively philosophies are similar to Gregg Williams. Both like to bring a ton of pressure on the qb. That's good at times, but people sure were complaining about how much we blitzed last year.
The second and more important reason is that Wilks Carolina defense played more zone than any other team in the NFL when he was the DC there. I like using zone defenses. I like mixing defenses up. However, I don't think it's a good thing when you utilize one defense more than any other coach in the league.
This bothers me because that suggests we might be playing more Cover 2 than I think we should. You can read the Cover 2 thread for more info about that. I do NOT think our corners are Cover 2 corners. I think they are man corners and Cover 3 corners.
Finally, Arizona's defense regressed after Wilks got there. Here are some numbers:
He's been successful as a coordinator and even in AZ his defense wasn't that bad. I think the more important thing is how he and freddie work together. He also has alot more talent here than he did in AZ https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/fro...ks-an-ideal-fit
What I would love to see is a DC that doesn't dogmatically tie himself to any single philosophy.
What might set my mind at ease is perhaps more of an explanation/insight of what he said about the corners. Trying to divine too much from one quote with little context is never a good idea.
Every defense is great and versatile - and every defense has a weakness and different personnel requirements. Different defenses have evolved as a means of attacking or taking away different things that have gotten popular with offenses over the years; they all have their uses and their place -- I'd like a DC intelligent & flexible enough (and I'm not saying that Wilkes isn't this) to put in place a system that allows a team to flow seamlessly between them as needed based upon the opponent/personnel we are facing. Hopefully, any DC at the NFL level is capable of this.
While you bring up a good point, I still haven't seen anyone try and break down the secondary talent he had to work with on the teams he previously coached. Not many teams have two shut down CB's and a dependable FS on the same roster.
I'm simply wondering how the talent he was given to work with may have influenced or possibly limited the defenses he could employ?
Actually, while I didn't do full-on scouting reports of each player, I did do this in another thread.
He had diddly to work with for the most part - both in Carolina and Arizona.
Any "names" he had either were at the end of their career or were lost part way through a season to injury. Tre Boston followed him everywhere, but that isn't saying much. End conclusion: he has NEVER had secondary talent like he does right now.
Thanks. That's sort of what I expected to hear. I'm not saying that he'll suddenly modify the defenses he will call here. But knowing he didn't have the talent to expand the D's he could run certainly opens the door for him to expand and vary his coverages here.
As is often times the case, coaches can be limited by the talent they're given to work with. Hopefully that's the case here and he'll use the secondary talent we have to their strengths.
However, at this stage I will give Wilks the benefit of doubt.
Defenses and personnel should go hand in hand. The Browns have the personnel to show and execute different coverages. Personnel packages should be dictated by down a distances.
At this point I don't think Wilks knows exactly what he will favor. Camp will show him how these guys compete.
As camp progresses defensive position coaches along with Wilks will work through what guys are best suited for specific roles.
By camp end he will be ready to game plan.
Then we will see what happens.
Results is what I will go by. This is still a discovery phase for Wilks. New coordinator, new players lots to find out as they work all the groups.
The personnel looks promising. We shall see what Wilks can do with them as time goes by.
And, to be fair to Wilkes, he is going to go with his tried-and-true; the things he knows he can get to work based upon his experience to date. The personnel we have will have to demonstrate consistency with the more difficult aspects of things in order for him to have trust that he can call certain things that he otherwise might avoid due to that experience.
I think that he will find that he will have far more freedom to get creative than he's ever had.
Actually, I brought up points...as in plural. I am not sure it is wise to simply dismiss his comment about the effectiveness of our defense being linked to how well our corners tackle.
I also disagree somewhat w/him never having talent to work w/in the past. Patrick Peterson is one of the top corners in the entire NFL and Josh Norman is, too.
It is also noteworthy that Arizona's defense statistically got worse after he took over.
Sometimes, I get the feeling that people don't like talking about subjects such as this one. It actually is a lot more about "Pure Football" than the crap that is going on in threads like the Duke thread.
I'm not making any huge proclamations like he sucks. I am voicing some concerns that are directly related to Pure Football talk.
And I do agree that those concerns may very well be legitimate. I'm also hopeful that with the talent we have on the roster some adjustments may be made. I'm not sure why you're being snarky.
I'm still willing to give Wilks the benefit of the doubt. Long story short, drafting a guy like Greedy and then running him out there to tackle RBs all game (exaggerating, but still) is too much "same ol' Browns" for what we've seen out of this regime so far.
It's early. We won't begin to see the first stages of the actual defense until the first game of the season.
I'm still willing to give Wilks the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not bashing him. Just voicing some concerns. I did try to say that hopefully my concerns won't occur, but I'm just trying to connect some dots and talk about football.
I mentioned before that I have been doing some occasional reading on Wilks.
One of the other items I came across was that Arizona played a 3-4 defense before he got there. As noted in my earlier post, the Cardinals were ranked 2nd and 6th in defense in the two previous years before Wilks arrival.
Wilks switched them to a 4-3 defense and they slid to 20th in defense. After Wilks was fired, Arizona hired Vance Joseph, who will switch back to a 3-4 D.
I am not arguing which defense is better, but I think it is noteworthy that Wilks was willing to change a very successful defense to the scheme he was personally more comfortable with.
I bring this up because Pit has made a point--and rightfully so--about maybe Wilks was just employing a D that was suited to the talent on the team. The switching of Arizona's defense seems to throw a bit of shade on that notion.
Hopefully, I am over-examining things and Wilks will break from his past and utilize a D that plays to his players strength rather than employing one that he is most comfortable with.
Hard to project tendencies when it is not a large data base.
Possibly he was doing what was best with the talent that he had.
We have possibly one of the best DLs assembled not just this time but all time. Something we will have to see.
Also we have 3 very good man CBs in the likes of Ward, Greedy and Mitchell.
It is possible that with the DL that we have we will not have to utilize a blitz to acquire pressure a DC's dream. We can still play man pressure and even bring on a blitz that is very successful (its the blitzes that are picked up that burn you) With our DL plus a blitz should be very successful. But also we have excellent man defenders - the Safeties and LBS can then play a zone while the CBs play man. creating a ton of turnovers or sacks.
That's a wrinkle I was unaware of, and it increases my discomfort my Wilks.
Things may work out fine, and I'm hoping they do of course, but I agree with your notion that it doesn't look like he is the kind of guy to fit what he does to who he has.... he's just another in a long list that expects who he has to fit into what he does.
We need a guy that knows how to use the tools he has, and not guys that demand the tools magically change into what he wants them to be.
Thanks for the reply. Our concerns might turn out to be nothing. I think I can speak for both of us that we are not saying he will try and turn man corners into zone corners, but I don't think it's farfetched to have a bit of concern.
My concern goes beyond just the CB's and is more along the lines of worrying/wondering "just how dogmatic is he?".
This is where I *really* hope to see Kitchens' influence. He did fantastic last year by breaking away from any sort of rigidity of scheme and instead going to what the players do well. We *need* to see that practice trickle down through his staff.
Here is the latest entry from Jake Burns giving us an up-close look at pass coverage technique that Wilks secondary is practicing. No definitive answers should be assumed from a few clips of OTAs or mini-camp. Also, the focus of these clips are OBJ vs. DBs. Not particularly the entire execution of the secondary.
Keeping it strictly to what is observable. You see examples of press-man, cover 3 and off-man coverage. I'd like to think that it's unnecessary to say that the results of each rep are less relevant than the fact that multiple techniques are being installed.
Oh man ... thanks so much ... i really like this Jake Burns dude ... have learned more from him than any other analyst ever .... his breakdowns are AWESOME ...
Thanks again ... this one is especially cool ... just watching the clips and seeing how good these guys are .... this snippet from your link made me smile from ear to ear ....
A clear favorite for this offense will be the usage of Beckham on shallow crossing routes and slants. The offense will try to get the ball into his hands, and when it doesn't go to Beckham quickly, he will draw plenty of attention from secondary players while crossing the field. We saw the offense use this several times throughout minicamp to various levels of success.
Not sure theres a better receiver with the ball in his hands in the league ... if he ain’t the best at it he’s right there inches away from the top ... u give him space and he’s going to turn his turbo jets on and blast through it ...
Man ... this is so so so much FUN .... how much fun are Freddie/Todd and the rest of the staff having drawing up plays for this O ... NOTHING is off the table ... they have the skill sets atall positions to do anything they want ...
I see advantages and disadvantages of having 5 DBs. I think you should have 5 and even 6 DBs at times, but I think playing 3 LBers on running downs makes sense, too.
I hope Wilks mixes things up and isn't married to one or two looks.
Finally, Arizona's defense regressed after Wilks got there. Here are some numbers:
2018: 20th in yards---26th in points.
2017: 6th in yards----19th in points.
2016: 2nd in yards----14th in points.
Wilks was never the defensive coordinator of the Cardinals...
...Al Holcomb was, for one year, 2018.
As most know, Wilks only got one year as HC of the Cards in 2018. Al Holcomb was hired as DC of the 2018 Cards after he spent 5 years as the Carolina Panthers LB coach.
The 2018 stats do not belong to Wilks as the Cards DC..
I knew that Wilks was the HC and that he had a DC. However, are you saying that Wilks didn't want to switch from the 3-4 to his previously used 4-3 when he hired Holcomb? LOL
I knew that Wilks was the HC and that he had a DC. However, are you saying that Wilks didn't want to switch from the 3-4 to his previously used 4-3 when he hired Holcomb? LOL
vers...Let's see, what did you write?...
Quote:
Finally, Arizona's defense regressed after Wilks got there. Here are some numbers:
2018: 20th in yards---26th in points.
2017: 6th in yards----19th in points.
2016: 2nd in yards----14th in points.
We wouldn't want our readers to get the wrong impression, would we?...by posting stats that Wilks was not responsible for, right?
I expect the Browns to play what ever defense best suites our personnel. Might be a combination of both 4-3 and 3-4..that would not surprise me.
Some board members really jump the gun, predicting this and that, such as what defense the Browns are going to run, before the team has played one snap.
As Browns fans should know, it takes time for an offensive and/or defensive unit to gel when a team starts over with new coaches and playbooks...and this year will not be any different.
Hopefully the talent level is good enough to overcome a slow start on both sides of the ball as the offense and defense learn another new system...again.
I reserve judgement on any coach until I see the games begin all I heard in the past was when the Browns hired a new coach was how great he was he was going to transform the defense or offense. how the rest of the North was going be dominated. the hype over Greg Williams and Brian Dumboll was the worst.
I was struck by their professionalism. All had that coaching mentality. "Get better every day."
This is a norm among every coach on any team in any sport at any level...
Go back to pages 4 -6 and you will find the same things said in every thread on each new hired coach hired this season..
I have enthusiasm...but at a very cautious feeling.. This all has been said in every season since "99" and before.
I Love enthusiasm.. I need to see results and play=offs before I get too excited..
I too am cautiously optimistic. The Browns have the talent to run away with the division title. Do they have the coaching? I don't know. Kitchens has never been a head coach before. Browns should win the division but you never know.
I think the Freddie hire had ALOT to do with his relationship with Baker and wanting to keep things consistent with a young QB. Had GW remained HC, almost certainly Freddie would have moved on.
I think the Freddie hire had ALOT to do with his relationship with Baker and wanting to keep things consistent with a young QB. Had GW remained HC, almost certainly Freddie would have moved on.
I don't think so. Greg would have probably kept Freddie as OC and I doubt any other team would have hired him as head coach.
Not that I think we made the wrong decision by any means. I just don't think any other team would have taken a shot with him after such a short stint as a coordinator.
I think the Freddie hire had ALOT to do with his relationship with Baker and wanting to keep things consistent with a young QB. Had GW remained HC, almost certainly Freddie would have moved on.
I don't think so. Greg would have probably kept Freddie as OC and I doubt any other team would have hired him as head coach.
Not that I think we made the wrong decision by any means. I just don't think any other team would have taken a shot with him after such a short stint as a coordinator.
JMO
Eh... I dunno. Looking back, there were some pretty questionable coaching hires that happened. Freddie being hired away wouldn't have been the craziest thing to happen.
I think the Freddie hire had ALOT to do with his relationship with Baker and wanting to keep things consistent with a young QB. Had GW remained HC, almost certainly Freddie would have moved on.
Gregg would never have been named head coach here. He was given an interview, but he is a defensive coach whose defense sucked, and we have a young QB who the team wants developed. When Freddie came in and righted the ship on offense, it was almost certain that he would get a long look.
We will never know. I still think the odds would have been pretty slim, but as you said, crazy things happen.
Even if they didn't lose Freddie immediately, had the Browns come out and won 10 games, they almost certainly would have lost him next year...
So I don't think the decision to part ways with Williams and make Freddie the HC was as much about this year as it was about locking in Freddie (who is 44) for the long term as the HC, compared to locking in GW (who is 60) and run the very serious risk of quickly losing Freddie and any continuity with Baker, etc...
DC...I agree, naming Freddy the Browns HC was done with an eye on the future and attempting to finally bring the franchise the continuity that has lacked since 1999.
Hopefully this coaching and management setup will produce the positive results all Browns fans are hoping for.
Me thinks when KJ gave Freddie the OC job w/o any input from Gregg it was a sign of what KJ thought he might have in Freddie ... it wouldn’t shock me at all if KJ knew he had sumptin special in Freddie then and wanted to see what he could so with the opportunity ...
I’m guessing Gregg only got the interim HC job cause he had HC experience and was a coordinator ... he made all the sense in the world in that situation ...
We will never know. I still think the odds would have been pretty slim, but as you said, crazy things happen.
Well ... the day the season ended i said Freddie is for real and was laughed at and ridiculed by most ... were u one of them Mr. Peen? ...
I only ask cause back then only myself and maybe one or two others thought he had a chance ... and it took most of u a long time to get on board with him even having a chance of getting the job til deep into the interview process ... if u were one of them ... u may wanna get out a grain of salt or two when your placing odds on if another team may have hired him ... *L* ...
ESPECIALLY SEEING as how this year one HC was hired out of college where he had a losing record as a HC and vey little to no NFL experience and another dude that came from the QB coach ranks i believe ... not sure that dude had ever been an OC ... if he was with the lambs he certainly didn’t call plays ... and to top it off someone hired Adam Gase ... ...
Freddie’s odds were prolly higher than u thought ...
U know what really shocked me ... with all the openings ... how did Dan Campbell not get one ... that dude seems to be a heck of a coach and highly thought of but he can’t seem to land a job .. he’s one of the short list of guys i wanted ....
Me thinks when KJ gave Freddie the OC job w/o any input from Gregg it was a sign of what KJ thought he might have in Freddie ... it wouldn’t shock me at all if KJ knew he had sumptin special in Freddie then and wanted to see what he could so with the opportunity ...
I made this point between the end of the season and the FK hiring; Freddie was supposedly hired on Todd Haley's recommendation as Running Back Coach, but his title was Associate Head Coach/RBC. Nobody else on the coaching staff had AHC in their title. I'm pretty sure Haley didn't have that authority, that had to be a decision coming from higher up. Then, for the final pre-season game, he was tapped to run the offense over Haley, Saunders, and Saunders Jr.
This combination of facts suggests to me that someone, probably Dorsey, had an idea about Freddie's potential (and possibly a back-burner plan) from the moment he was originally hired.
Great point about the A/HC title ... i remember u making that point ... i forgot ... great catch back then ...
I actually typed out in my response and decided to delete something right in line with what u just said ...
I deleted basically this “ i bet when Dorsey called around during the interview process to guys like the Tuna, Arians and Saban just to name a few the recommendations he got from this guys had to have made an impression and caught his eye even from that early on . .. i mean these are well respected top of the class football minds and thats just the start of the list” ...
So i agree with U ... I think Freddie caught Dorsey’s attention possibly that early and then Dorsey kept a keen eye on Freddie and he impressed every single step of the way ... lets hope this step is no different and he’s a rousing success ...
Man, wouldn't it be great to have the same GM/head coach/QB for the next 10 years or so?
It sure would and I hope w/all my heart we do. I do want to caution those who are patting themselves on the back in that this coaching staff hasn't won--or lost--a game yet. It might be wise to wait and see what they do w/all this talent.
I'm telling you, expectations are extraordinarily high and if the Browns don't meet those expectations immediately, things could get very ugly for the coaching staff.
I still remember the thousands of posts of how Phil Savage was a "genius." And how RAC was going to lead us to great heights. I remember almost every single coach and GM being talked up. Hell, I even remember cautioning people about Hue. And I almost always defended each of them later on when the cheers turned to jeers. I'm not bad-mouthing our coaching staff, but it might be wise to take a wait-and-see approach.
We will never know. I still think the odds would have been pretty slim, but as you said, crazy things happen.
Even if they didn't lose Freddie immediately, had the Browns come out and won 10 games, they almost certainly would have lost him next year...
So I don't think the decision to part ways with Williams and make Freddie the HC was as much about this year as it was about locking in Freddie (who is 44) for the long term as the HC, compared to locking in GW (who is 60) and run the very serious risk of quickly losing Freddie and any continuity with Baker, etc...
Ahhh….one more time....I am not saying we should have kept Williams. I am glad we hired Freddie. I am also saying I think the odds small Freddie would have been hired by another team as a head coach.
I also agree Freddie would have been hired as a head coach after this season.
I also don't need you to explain these things to me and making it sound like I didn't want Freddie or am not smart enough to know he wouldn't be our coach if we didn't hire him for this season.
I simply said the odds of him being hired as a head coach of another team after last season was pretty small because the sample size was small.
It makes sense we would have done that because Dorsey got to know the guy and felt the sample size was large enough due to inside knowledge.
Man, wouldn't it be great to have the same GM/head coach/QB for the next 10 years or so?
It sure would and I hope w/all my heart we do. I do want to caution those who are patting themselves on the back in that this coaching staff hasn't won--or lost--a game yet. It might be wise to wait and see what they do w/all this talent.
I'm telling you, expectations are extraordinarily high and if the Browns don't meet those expectations immediately, things could get very ugly for the coaching staff.
I still remember the thousands of posts of how Phil Savage was a "genius." And how RAC was going to lead us to great heights. I remember almost every single coach and GM being talked up. Hell, I even remember cautioning people about Hue. And I almost always defended each of them later on when the cheers turned to jeers. I'm not bad-mouthing our coaching staff, but it might be wise to take a wait-and-see approach.
Freddie becoming the head coach was the easiest process possible. Once he became the OC he had an 8 game interview to become the head coach.
Dorsey brought in the usual suspects to interview but the job was Freddie's.
They saw first hand over a eight week period all they needed to see. Dorsey said the decision was unanimous.
They saw what he did with the players and the offense. The way he worked. The way he coached and prepared. His relationship not just with Baker but the others.
He still has to prove himself now as the head coach. The talent is there to make it happen.
For me personally, I have complete confidence in Freddie. Not worried in the least.
I respect GW as a DC. But I thought the defense under achieved while he was the DC. Actually I thought his son did better as the DC. I would have liked to have kept him as the DC.
But I have major respect for Dorsey and I believe the Wilks hire will prove out. Wilks came up as a DB coach. Dorsey places great importance to the defensive backfield. He completely revamped our defensive backfield.
We upgraded the defensive front. Garrett should explode this year.
Not sure how you know all of these things and I'm not being snarky. I just don't know how you know.
Also, I don't think the decision was unanimous. It was reported that the Analytics guys favored the dude from Minnesota and Dorsey wanted Freddie. Dorsey won out and made a comment about I got what I wanted, or something similar to that.
I’m with u bone ... i feel real good about Freddie ... real good ... it don’t mean its going to work out but i feel real good about him ... dude’s grinded his arse off and been handed nothing .... everyone from his past loves him .... and he has a TON OF TALENT ...
The way he got here .. who got him here ... the talent he has here ... the reasons the coordinators took the job ... dudes so well respected ... he’s going to be him and i look forward to seeing what he can do with this team and the plays him and his staff can design for talent on O ...
I do believe when you watch a guy do his job for eight weeks you have a pretty good handle on what he is about.
As far GW when he was the DC the defense failed in the clutch numerous times. I respect GW. Thought he did well as the HC. As stated I thought his son did better than he did as DC. IMO.
from Haslam's opening remarks at the introductory press for FK : "But at the end of the process, unanimously, we all felt that (head coach) Freddy (Kitchens) was the right fit for this organization moving forward." https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/bro...ress-conference
I guess the key words in there is "by the end." I do remember that there were articles that were posted on this board about how Dorsey wanted Freddie and the analytics guys wanted the OC from Minni.
Not sure how you know all of these things and I'm not being snarky. I just don't know how you know.
Also, I don't think the decision was unanimous. It was reported that the Analytics guys favored the dude from Minnesota and Dorsey wanted Freddie. Dorsey won out and made a comment about I got what I wanted, or something similar to that.
I don't think it was they wanted the Minnesota guy as much as it was everything pointed to we needed to bring him in for a interview. At any rate, it isn't all that important, at the end of the day I think everybody agreed that Freddie was the guy.
I've been curious about the dynamics and thought process that retained FK and sent GW on his way. Knowing that would tell us a lot, you know?
Clem I am ASSuming a lot of it had to do with the communication and relationship established between GW, FK with John Dorsey. Kitchens and Dorsey just seem to mesh together well. They speak country as one. Both seem like good ole boys and pretty laid back to figure things out together.
I think a lot of this has to do with what you're building your franchise around. This franchise is being built around Baker Mayfield. So it stands to reason that if you find a man you feel is capable of being an NFL HC, who is young enough and has a great rapport with your young, franchise QB, you create a situation where there's a chance they can work together for the long haul.
Still can't let it go. I wonder if they bothered to ask how a roster looks when you let Sashi build it?
If I saw something about Sashi Brown’s roster construction being poor I would have posted that under a different thread. Alas, this is a thread about coaches. Having not the worst head coach of all time should help or won/loss record.
GC. Of the Coaches, I'll be interested if we see any Offensive Line Formations where there is a varying distance in the gap between O linemen, shoulder apart from shoulder; Most notably I'll be looking for a wider distance, if the Browns use that, and how often.
Posters have questions about the coaches. Those are legitimate. There is a new coaching staff, of course, there is speculation about what that means.
When judging them as with most things, it's not what they say, it's what they do that will answer the questions. OK, with those caveats out of the way I just saw a presser with Joe Whitt, the Browns' new passing game coordinator. He impressed me as no-nonsense, expectation setter. Then he said some things about Steve Wilks that I found encouraging. They still have to translate to results but they were encouraging.
U know bone ... i’ve never felt more confident about a staff for a few reasons ... first one being I’m a wait and see kinda dawg ... *L* .. only other hire i was ever excited about was Chud and that was cause Norv took a job as his OC after being his HC ... to me that showed great faith and respect in Chud ... not sure if its ever happened before but if it has it hasn’t occurred often ...
Here’s the reasons I am optimistic about this staff ...
- the talent they have to coach ... - the way the staff was assembled starting with Freddie ... he had an 8 game interview after only the previous 8 games here to get noticed and impress KJ enough to get the 8 game audition AFTER grinding for 20 years and impressing EVERYONE along the way .... - the players say Freddie is the same and he holds them accountable and is honest with them ... i believe it ... THATS HUGE ... - the talent they have to coach ... - last year as OC Freddie included everyone in the game plan and both Wilks and Monken mentioned that as part of the reasons they took the job ... as i’m sure u well know thats also HUGE ... the more involved folks are the more ownership they feel the more motivated there gonna be because they feel more invested in the outcome ... - the talent they have to coach - KJ has a ton of experience and knows what he wants ... he 100% knows what he has in Freddie ... he had 16 games of observing and 8 with Freddie in a group leadership role ... he got to see how Freddie handled himself and related to and handled the O .. - the talent they have to work with .... - we have a QB thats a leader and guys like VG and OBJ who will lead there rooms and set and example for the entire team by working hard every second ... they also like each other and want to work hard and improve for each other and we have a player leadership group thats going to facilitate that ... and something that’s overlooked ... these guys LOVE COMPETING and there all going to improve because of it ... once gain ... HUGE ....
Thats why i’m extremely optimistic about this staff .... the questions are legite ... i get it ... but these are all legite reasons for my extreme optimism with Freddie and his staff ...
I been saying it for awhile now ... and once again ....
So far, in reading up on the staff and watchin/listening to various clip, I am impressed. A totally different culture from what we had.
One of the things that has struck me is the sense of urgency being instilled at the ground level. Players are being yelled at for not running...off the field, to their next station, to whatever they need to do next BETWEEN the actual drills. They are expected to feel an urgency. I think this departs from the previous atmosphere where, as long as you gave effort during the drills, between drills you could relax.
I honestly think and thought and still do that fans for the most part can and do set unreasonable expectations on coaches in general they can only coach the players they have and if talent is missing they suffer.
There is in other words little difference between coaches unless your talking about BB and then he is so acutely aware of his talent and the talent of the teams he plays he finds advantages and exploits those advantages like no other coach EVER IMO.
So back to Diamonds post its about the talent, period and always has been. Now it does take time to blend talent "IF" the Browns suffer it will be early from there they will kick ass because they in most instances this season will have the better talent.
Well, I think you are fundamentally wrong when you say it's about the talent period.
I think of, how teams turned around over history when they changed coaches and a coach like schottenheimer had very similar results when he went to the Redskins and then on to the KC chiefs, after he left the Browns,
and or other examples, the Buddy Ryan family, lot's of examples.
The more I think of it, just recently the last few days, I'm more and more convinced, if a team knows how to finish, ( Tom Coughlin is another example)
if a team knows how to finish, knows how to orchestrate a game on gameday, that
it's about having players play roles, and together,
and I think familiarity, and continuity, along with the coaches putting a team together that knows how to play together and finish, part of finishing is overcoming adversity, and overcoming some other poor teams ability to do what they do against you.
When you have that, I don't think the talent advantage that everyone wants to hope exists, makes much difference.
Sure there are some, that don't belong in the NFL and if you have glaring holes of competitveness, then you need talent.
And if you have a couple, maybe there are only 10-20 players in a the WHOLE LEAGUE that can be super man and change the game with their talent alone,
But the thing is, you don't need them, or all of them, what you need is a given strategy of "your game"
if you play "your game" you come out winnners today, and you can do it against even the best talent around.
And if you think this is a completely full of smell arugment then the Ravens and Steelers wouldn't have finished top 2 in the AFC north about 80% of the last 20 years,
So Talent matters, but it won't help if you don't have a plan to use it. It won't help if you don't have a team that can finish, put another team away.
This isn't the NBA,
it's an 11 person orchestra, on offense, on defense, on special teams,
They had better talent for 20 years, and a winning atmosphere created by the coaches to be sure but non the less they simply had better talent and thats why they won.
It sure would be fun to flip coaches and find out how a coach does with little talent and how a coach whom is viewed as a poor coach would do with better talent, wouldn't it?
In the end I think talent wins out, oh and that talent needs to fit what the coach likes to do. There is a bit of both but I think talent is the big big difference.
I truly believe we are about to find out 1st hand.
The Vibe is different, the national media love, starting with OBJ is different, the expertise of Landry, and OBJ, and the experience of Hunt is different,
but in some ways there is a template that is the same,
some thing(s) the Browns have done almost every year I can think of since, way back to before Holmgren was riding golf carts.
The Head coach is first year, same. The D Coordinator is new, same.
The brining in of a free agent WR to be one of the top 2 starters for the coming season, yet first time on the Browns is Same. (Kenny Britt, and (H.) Guy from the Dolphins, and Stalworth was.
The Brand new Db's to start at corner, (well that's about a yearly occurance.)
The re-vamping of the Defensive line, yeah, I'm sure this is a thing that happens almost every year.
Parting ways with a linebacker who was originaly obtained from another team through free agency or trade, but not drafted, A guy went to the Jets last year, Collins this time.
A big time RB pick up with a proven track record like Jamal Lewis, or Kareem Hunt.
I'm not saying it's not different, I'm just saying the pattern is the same
Hey! Maybe it's the only pattern, maybe it's just that way in the NFL,
but I still believe it's up to the COACHES to show these guys a Gameplan that will get them to win.
JMHO, talent wins NEARLY every time, the catch wasn't coaching, Red A seeing Bird practice ain't coaching, the fumble- Stabler ain't coaching, the Immaculate reception ain't coaching- Jerry Rice's work ethic isn't coaching. Having typed that- the Coach- BB- he makes things happen like no other coach- he SCHOOLED Rams wonderboy in Super Bowl. He's different. Go Browns!!!!
That's all well and good, but a Coach can't win, no matter how good he is if he doesn't have talent.
Now, Hue wasn't (IMO) using the talent he had available to him in a very good way. So that may have had more of an impact last season than any other before.
After what I saw Freddie and Baker do after Hue was cut, I'm more than happy with what we've got..
There is also something to be said for players that fit your system. Some players aren't actually the most talented but they fit well into a system a coach is trying to run. The ability to find those players that work well in that system is often key.
Let's face it, the salary cap limits the top named players a team can sign. So at some point finding those mid range type players to fill the voids becomes a key as well.
I agree. It was night and day once Williams was named head coach and Freddie was name O coordinator. It was like a lump of coal compressed in to a diamond.
Dorsey has made a lot of good moves, but the tie for first was dumping Hue and putting Freddie as O coordinator.
I take that back, it isn't a tie. Dumping Hue was a easy call. Any simpleton could have made that call. Installing Freddie as O coordinator was a bold move. Freddie and John had to have had some in depth conversations through camp and the first half of last season.
I agree. It was night and day once Williams was named head coach and Freddie was name O coordinator. It was like a lump of coal compressed in to a diamond.
Dorsey has made a lot of good moves, but the tie for first was dumping Hue and putting Freddie as O coordinator.
I take that back, it isn't a tie. Dumping Hue was a easy call. Any simpleton could have made that call. Installing Freddie as O coordinator was a bold move. Freddie and John had to have had some in depth conversations through camp and the first half of last season.
As fans, we wouldn't truly know bc we're not there behind the scenes. All we can judge is the product on the field. And 1-31 aint really saying you're doing great coaching. However, I'll always give him a slight benefit of the doubt bc of the QBs he had (Kessler, Kizer, etc).
Hue's downfall is really just his personality. I think he's a good coach, but I believe he needs 100% his guys (other coaches) to be successful. Some people can't operate to their full potential if their worried about a lack of trust, and he falls in that category, as he's always trying to prove himself to others. That doesn't work for the long-term. You can't focus on the things you really need to focus on to be successful.
Hope this post doesn't turn this into a Hue thread, but just rambling based on the twitter post.
Team didn't quit, these millionaires better not quit- guys making couple hundred thousand-quit, with their education background most better not quit- JMHO, they preform to best of their ability even if the coach knows nothing, because they could be working HARD for $20,000 or less. Jackson and his "greatest turnaround ever"- it started when he LEFT......GO Browns!!!! LOVE the attitude of whole organization now- done nothing, get to work, non-players working their butts off finding hungry players....new attitude....GO Browns!!!!
CLEVELAND, Ohio — Former Browns offensive line coach Bob Wylie had some harsh words for the Browns organization in a radio interview Saturday.
For starters, he said he was surprised when Freddie Kitchens was hired as head coach considering quarterbacks coach Kenny Zampese was the mastermind behind the Browns’ explosive offense in the final eight weeks of the season.
“Baker (Mayfield) likes Freddie,’’ Wylie said on The Zach Gelb Show on CBS Sports Radio. “There’s a good relationship there even though (former Browns QB coach) Kenny Zampese did all the coaching there. Baker likes Freddie, so that had to (factor) into the decision.’’
Wylie, who was fired after the season along with the most of the assistants hired by Hue Jackson, charged that interim coach Gregg Williams didn’t get the head coaching job because Dorsey didn’t want him.
“My own personal feeling is Gregg was too strong a candidate for the seat,’’ Wylie said on The Zach Gelb Show on CBS Sports Radio. “I don’t think Dorsey wanted to go head-to-head with Williams like he had to do with Andy Reid in Kansas City, so he kind of filtered Gregg out of the picture.’’
Wylie, who left the Browns in late December because of a serious ankle and knee injury, said he heard about his firing from his daughter.
“My daughter called me and said, ‘Hey, dad, you just got fired today,’’ Wylie said. “That’s the first time I head about it.’’
I will not defend or attack any of those involved.
When this type of situation goes down; people get hurt.
GW has been in the league a long time. He has been a head coach. If other teams wanted him in that capacity he would have been hired as a head coach again. The Browns were not the only team to change the head coach.
At this point it is time to look forward not rehash the past.
I usually don't read any stories from ClevelandBrowns.com because they are fluff/propaganda but I clicked the link because this sounded interesting (and it was):
How the Browns’ quality control coaches help ‘run the show’ behind the scenes for the offense
Just because I have Ekeler and Hunter Henry on my fantasy team, I’ve watched quite a few of their games. Their offense (especially the run game) has some major issues. Every week they’re playing from behind and forced to go hurry up. It’s definitely weird timing now tho
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