Well Dawgs camp is just over a week away. We have been foaming at the mouth to get this started.

It has been many moons since we have had the expectations and hype that surround this years Browns.

So what player will be the surprise of this years Camp. Lots of legit candidates.

We have a bunch of guys just signed like Odell, Richardson, Vernon, Whitehead, Murray, Hunt and others.

We have rookies Greedy, Taki, Wilson.

We have a bunch of second year guys and of course some vets.

My pick surprise or not is Greedy.

First he has great talent. When you watch his tape. It looks easy for him. So natural in his movements. He has the size for the position that you look for. He has that length that really comes in handy for a corner.

But what I love about this kid is his work ethic. That is what will make him succeed. Nobody had to coach him about effort and what kind of commitment it will take. Right from the start Greedy was the first guy there in the morning. He loves the film room. That is so important for young guys and especially corners.

He has Ward to help him on the defensive side of the ball. Ward came in last year and just took over his position. Ward is a good teammate and will help Greedy.

Then you have practice and the guys he will go against everyday. You get through camp going against our receivers for hours each day. You are going to get schooled. Game day will be like a day at the beach.

So that is my pick there are many worthy guys to choose from. Make your case.

The surprise is I thought it started the 24th.

My hope is that Hilliard is given enough reps during camp - and certainly during preseason - that he'll show us why the coaches seem to like him so much.

Maybe not a complete surprise - just a hope.

?

This is just a hunch, but I bet Duke's tenuous place on the roster might just have had a tiny bit of influence on how the coaches perceive Hilliard. LOL

[quote=bonefish]

He's saying camp was to start on the 24..

So. What has that got to do with the thread?

Pretty clear what the topic is about.

Well today is the 14th and that means camp starts in 10 days. Bone said in his post that camp was a little over a week away.

I would really like to see Robinson show us all that he has been able to get it together and play like the stud people thought he was going to be when he was drafted.

I agree.

If there was one guy I would like to see stud out; Robinson would be the guy.

I am really uncertain about Robinson.

Young guys that I hope really pan out

Austin Corbett
Drew Forbes
Jamie Gillan
Damon Sheehy-Guiseppi
and either Austin Seibert or Greg Joseph

Hilliard and Njoku.

The former can seal his place if we move on from Duke. The latter needs to prove why we moved up to get him. He has a ton of potential, but we have yet to consistently see it from him. Year 3 HAS to be his breakout year.

Njoku is 23, as you noted in year 3- he might have showed up as a physical STUD, but 20 is 20- playing a MAN's game. In college, years ago-27/29 at physical peak- MENTALLY isn't mature yet either....I expect him to continue to improve both mentally and physically.
Forbes is my sleeper/surprise- hope he kicks butt and gets best out of all our want to be starter GUARDS, I want better than decent at RG.
Robinson should be fine, more than just OK....Go Browns!!!

j/c:

Some of the choices don't really seem like "surprises" to me. Greedy was picked it he second round. He has a good resume. Him playing well would not be a "surprise."

I like the aforementioned choices of Robinson, either kicker, and one of the young safeties. They all fit into the category of being somewhat of a surprise but capable of maybe surprising. If that makes any sense.

DL depth has been my biggest concern for the entire offseason.

Dan Ekuale or,

Chad Thomas or, both

I think the surprise of camp will be Calloway looking like OBJ on the other side.

Would love to see him and Higgins stud out this year.

ANTONIO CALLAWAY
WR, CLEVELAND BROWNS

Baker Mayfield has been impressed with WR Antonio Callaway this offseason.

Mayfield said, "We have been very pleasantly and very happy with how he came back from the offseason ready to go. Just how quick he is and you can tell he has been working on his craft." The Browns are excited to get Callaway against CB3s this season with Odell Beckham and Jarvis Landry receiving most of the attention, but targets will be slim for the second-year receiver. Callaway will be a low-end, boom-or-bust fantasy asset as a deep threat for Mayfield.

SOURCE: ClevelandBrowns.com
Jul 14, 2019, 4:53 PM ET

ya, just looked back, when I read the topic title, I was surprised, I thought "(shoot) I missed it" I thought it didn't start for another week.

How about, Pipkins, or Whitehead.

Some if not most players being mentioned playing well in camp would not be surprising.

The surprise in camp for myself would be Drew Forbes. I would be very happy and surprised if he gets coached up and speed up his game to stop the edge rushers and stay an OT. I would prefer a surprise by one of the OL this camp...especially on the left side.

Need someone to help keep Baker waking up feeling dangerous and not beat... Not much on what ifs..But man I wish Joe Thomas was going in his 3rd season

I said "surprise or not" I liked Greedy.

But I get that he may not be considered a surprise.

So, I am going with Jermaine Whitehead. This will be his 4th year. So, at 26 maybe everything comes together for him.

He got alot of positive press from the coaches as hard worker and smart guy. Seems to really know what is going on.

Maybe he earns time at safety.

I'll define "surprise" as in a guy who exceeds expectations.

I'm going with Carl Davis...with Chad Thomas as choice #2. I've read where the FO was not happy that these guys weren't used more. Thomas was dinged early on and never "caught up" and Davis was quietly re-signed this off-season.

Drew Forbes. I think the guy can be really good.

You, sir, may well have mastered the art of understatement. Certain you get that a lot LOL

But no worries! Drew R will make it all better, I suspect. Hilliard may well shine.

Go, Browns!

The surprise with players like Greedy is if they totally suck.

A surprise doesn't have to be a good one.

Really? I didn't know that. Then again, I actually did read the first post that talked about Greedy. Here, take a look for yourself and you tell me if he was saying he would suck.



Disclaimer: Hey bonefish............I wasn't getting on your case about this. I hope you didn't take it that way, but I can understand if you did. Sorry if it came across that way. I just would not be surprised if Greedy turns out really good. And that is just my opinion. Not saying I am right.

On the other hand: Hey peen....my sarcasm towards you was intended. LOL

j/c:

Good thread topic and I have a few. It comes from the fact that either an open position (or a position not as secure as others) or someone who has been injured and as a result, has been lost amongst the mix.

1. Jermaine Whitehead- I don't see Burnett as a lock to open the season as the starting SS and Whitehead might put a little pressure on him during training camp.

2. Seth DeValve- People are overlooking him because of his injuries but when on the field, Seth was an asset. There was an article written recently on the many creative ways Kitchens used DeValve when he was able to make it back on the field. Hopefully that continues.

HOT TAKE:

3. Sheldrick Redwine- I liked the Randall acquisition and enjoyed watching him play, but the contract extension talks have not resulted in anything yet (at least publicly) and maybe it's because the FO wants to see what Redwine has, even as a 4th rounder. This FO needs to be very judicious with future deals with Garret, Mayfield, paying Beckham,etc. so if Redwine performs well in TC, it could be interesting to see things unfold over the course of the season.

All good.

I think Greedy has a shot at DROY.

The surprise is we got him in the second round.

I picked Jermaine Whitehead as the Camp surprise.

Actually, I was agreeing with you on Greedy. I expect him to be a good player. That wouldn't surprise me if he does. It would surprise me if he doesn't.

I agree with one of your comments about a guy like him probably shouldn't be on the list.

Understand?

LOL. Okay. Maybe.

JMHO, there can be good and bad surprises- history shows us you got to KNOW the people you draft- MAJOR Browns mistakes- Gilbert- all american DB who hated football, and Johnny Manziel- the immature druggie...love the front office NOW who pick football players.....GO Browns!!!
Gilbert- two years in league and GONE- 8th overall- WOW- we got a 6th in return- damn did we waste picks in the past!!!

He actually had to work more with the WRs' in OTAs'.

He was making plays against our CBs' in the passing game.

He doesn't possess Dukes wiggle in the open field, but he can be another weapon.

My Surprise player that will shine in camp and win himself the full time starting position of SAM LB is Avery.He is going to shine and I personally thing he is an outstanding player and will put Collins to shame in taking over.

jmho

I am very high on Avery. Thought he had a great rookie season.

Curious to see how Wilks uses him. During OTA's from what I understand they worked him as a DE.

Not sure if that was just looking or if that is the plan.

When you watch his tape what stands out is he is a strong guy. Violent hands. Very hard guy to block.

I thought last year when asked to play in space; that he did alright. There is no doubt he can rush the passer.

I expect him to make major contributions to the team this year.

See, i'm high on Avery, but not sure he fits the plan with this team. He reminds me more of a 3-4 OLB type.

Once other teams catch on to him as a pass rushing DE, he'll be limited IMO.

He's reminds me of TJ Watt.

Wish the best for him, i just don't think he'll reach his potential on this team

I can understand your point.

However, we will have to see what Wilks does with him.

I agree with Tab that his place would be SAM.

Way to much talent to be wasted. I think camp will reveal a lot.

I would use Avery as an Edge rusher on passing downs.

Don't know how that would work with Vernon?

I don't see a rotation. Vernon has a good reputation as a rusher.

I think Avery will play a lot. How I am unsure.

I'd agree that SAM would be his position. For whatever reason, he seems to only be working out as a DE in OTA's. Makes me think that's what he'll be doing.

Pass Rushing DE. Useful, but he'd be far more useful on another team that runs a true 3-4. Like the Steelers or something (although i wouldn't want to trade him there of course)

I think it would work because no unit subs more than the DL. They try and keep the guys as fresh as possible.

I agree with Vers ... last year he made a difference in the 1st half of the year when he was utilized as an edge rusher ... i get that they changed his role due to injury ... just no clue why it seemed like he never rushed the QB after they switched his roll ....

U can stunt Vernon or MG and that oughta open things up for Avery to come off the edge ... or flood an edge ... good luck dealing with him and Vernon or MG coming around the same edge ... that’s dangerous but with their ability to edge rush it could also reek havoc ...

Avery showed last year he has the ability to get around the edge affectively ... its a tool in his belt and one most don’t have ... not sure why u would want to take that tool out of his belt cause u have others that have the same tool ...

There’s plenty of edge rushing opportunities for everyone ...

There's no such thing as having too many pass rushers.

Avery will be a camp story to watch.

This is what has been said in regards to Avery.

"Avery is one, shining in pass-rush scenarios as a rookie and rising as a possible replacement for the departed Jamie Collins. "He plays with his hair on fire," run game coordinator/linebackers coach Al Holcomb said of Avery. "He plays fast, his effort is relentless, he's physical at the point of attack. Those are the things, the intrinsic things that he brings to the table, that he brings to this defense, just his overall ability and his willingness and pursuit to get to the football. And he's a pretty good pass rusher as well."
====================================================

High praise. I remember when he was drafted. Didn't know a thing about him. Pulled up college game tape. And was like "who is this dude?" He looked good to me.

So, just another story to follow.

If things were different. I would rent a place in Berea. Just go all in and watch everything possible. Really looking forward to see how this team comes together and plays.

That was a great post, not just in substance but in style. I wish more menZas could write like you.

Change things ... *L* ...

Love to have u their getting your thoughts ...

That was a great post, not just in substance but in style. I wish more menZas could write like you.



Diam followed w/this:




Sorry Diam, but that was too good to pass up.

There their their

I already consider Callaway as maybe the best receiver on the team, at least potentially, and that's not taking anything away from the All Stars at Wr whom they signed in the last two years.

I saw pretty decent greatness in Callaways tape the day they drafted him, and I think he had about 6 TD's called back, for whatever reason, penalty or other nonsense, About 6 Td's called back, just last year.

Callaway, balling out? Isn't/wouldn't be a surprise to me, the "surprise" is how come it takes so long for other people to see it.

I like Calloway. He's got to get better though, guys are in front of him now, or challenging him for time.

Luckily we have a QB who can find an open guy, make a swift decision and pound it in there.

Higgins is one to watch for me ... Callaway gets more love w/the media, but Higgins and Baker have good chemistry

I’m really curious to see how snaps break down with that group after VG/OBJ ...

With Calloway’s physical talent i’d Imagine he’d be third in snaps ... then after that you’d figure Higgins ... but who knows ... will be interesting to see how that turns out ...

Also curious to see what Freddie does when we get a lead ... he don’t remind me of the type thats gonna sit on a lead and milk the clock ... we’ll see ...

I tend to agree with this.

What did we do on offense last year when we got a big lead on the Bengals? Anyone remember?

No ... what? ...

It is all we have to go on ... here’s how i’d break it down before u tell us ..

Given last years situation with a rookie QB starting and not near the talent we have on O this year ... and not just OBJ and Hunt (like their not an embarrassment of riches ... man is is good to be us .. *L* ) ... Calloway has a shot to be real special also and if their was ever a set up for a break out season ... when DC’s game plan he’s gonna be at best the 3rd worry just in the passing game ...

Focus dude focus .... *L* ...

If Freddie kept his foot on the pedal last year there’s no reason to think with bake having a year of experience and all the talent we added he’ll decide to ease up now ... that wouldn’t make much sense now would it ...

If he took his foot off the gas last year the question is WHY ... is that his philosophy or was it because he had a rookie QB and not much talent on that side of the ball ....

OK ... what he do? ...

I don't really remember. LOL

I was asking.

I do remember posters complaining after the game how we got too conservative and let them back in the game. I don't think I agreed w/them. As you probably know, I think "fans" overreact to how coaches handle play calling.

Now that's a question a good reporter would ask Freddie before the season. Unfortunately.....

The second game wasn't really a blowout. That was the game they lost Dalton and their backup came in and did what all backups do to our defenses. He looked like an all-pro and started bringing them back. In that game, though our last 2 drives were pretty run-heavy, with a couple big passes. The 3rd from the last drive was more sustained and had a more balanced run/pass ratio.

The first Cinci game was more lopsisded (35-20). This was week 12 (Hue and Haley were gone, right?)
The second half saw 6 Cleveland drives, in which a total of 4 passes were attempted (the first drive of the half came off a Cinci fumble and Baker tossed a short pass into the endzone for a TD, the others were mixed in throughout the drives, were various distances and I think only 1 more was completed). The final drive was a 2-play drive, where the final play was a kneel. I'm running through the play-by-plays very quickly, so I may not be 100% accurate. Except for that early 3rd quarter TD, all drives ended in punts.

The run/pass ratio was very lopsided, so Freddie (he was OC at this point, right?) most definitely took his foot off the gas. The only argument I can think of is that, back in week 12, where was Baker in terms of his handle on the playbook/teammates? I don't remember. Freddie may have felt he had to be cautious with the new QB. I don't remember.

Thanks. The 35-20 game was the one I was talking about.

We also have no idea if Greg was in the MIC telling Freddie to lay off and let his Def finish it up. ALL SPECULATION, but that does seem like something Greg would do.

I hope he milks things a bit if we have a 2 TD lead in the 4th. Before the 4th QTR, you don't milk anything unless you are up by maybe 30 pts.

Over the past 20 years we have been the NFL's ragdoll, punching bag and bully toy...It's now our time to seek revenge. The rise of the ancient champions! Honestly, unless FK is worried about 1st team injuries or wants to give them some rest...no matter how inflated the score is in our favor, I'd love it if he goes in every game and literally plays to keep scoring until the final whistle is blown. No rest for the wicked once the sleeping giant has been awakened!!

One thing I was really impressed with last year, with Freddie calling the plays, is that 3rd and long wasn't a "give up" type run right up the gut. I can remember so many 3rd and long, even buried in our own end of the field, being converted. Baker completed better than 55% on 3rd and 8+.

That just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling because it's always been the other team doing that to us.

Jc

I’d also guess we see some of the 3 RB backfield again, especially when Hunt returns

I understand. I feel like that until the 4th Qtr. Not on D. No prevent D's until it is Hail Mary time for them.

On O, the clock is your 12th man when ahead. Snap the ball with 2 seconds on the clock, maybe 3, run the ball, and throw high percentage passes to keep the clock running. Run time or make them use timeouts. That's smart football.

I say snap the ball on 2 or 3 seconds because if you wait to 1, the backers can make really good jumps. Still keep them on their heels a bit. At least keep them honest.

While reading this sentence a thought came to mind:

Look at this line-up. It's great at the top, really good at the depth spots... with so little drop-off in quality between tiers. That is so frickkin huge. Browns have always been starved for not only #1 talent, but also depth of any sort- at almost every position.

If I'm an opposing DC, I'm not sure how to defense a squad that is this stacked from top to bottom.

#embarrassmentofriches

Yeah I agree Clem ... I always think having a versatile/deep roster is nearly as important as having top tier talent (and in the past we haven’t even had that)

Gone are the days of relying on Cribbs or Gabriel or Hawkins to be our big threat

If you're naming post-return "superstars", gotta include Northcutt!

Training camp starts tomorrow. It gets real now.

We're ridiculously deep at WR, so probably no surprises there. But when I think of Willies, I see 6'4" speed merchant at 207 lbs in only his second year in the NFL. He acquitted himself well last year, and with the experience with Mayfield, and the competition against a stout defense in camp, he should really take a leap. Watching....

I am interested to see what Strong does.

Doesn't camp begin July 24th?

Haha yeah Northcutt, Andra Davis, Quincy Morgan, Chiaverini, etc .. loved that group

You're right~ Can't blame a guy for getting excited. I saw Demarious Randall in the house during the Browns online radiocast yesterday though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSZ766ZKjZA

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/03...ie-collins.html

What you all have to remember he was a rookie and he has made the transition to LB...it doesn't mean on passing situations that he doesn't take on a DE look as we move Garrett inside or Vernon.
Although I like him in 2 point moving all around the DL on passing downs

From your article...

Matt Miller, Bleacher Report: “Genard Avery has a diverse skill set that should intrigue teams looking for a linebacker to play on the line of scrimmage. He's likely best as a strong-side linebacker in a 4-3 defense or an outside linebacker in a 3-4. He has more than enough athleticism given his thick frame, but the instincts and vision needed to diagnose NFL offenses in motion are lacking and limit his ability as a true inside linebacker.”

That's what we have heard, are still hearing, and watched for ourselves. When he reacts quickly to plays, he'll pop off the screen at times.
I know instincts and "twitch" are intangible traits, in a sense, but doesn't good coaching and confidence allow a good athlete to improve them? Many a great coach would just tell a player like that to "let 'er rip and learn from your mistakes". I think if Avery can get to a point where his confidence matches his athleticism, and "football IQ" improve, he can play any down, any situation, inside and out. He's got the talent. Two weeks of the James Harrison Hip Thrust Workout would put him on the fast track. Do you think he'll take a big leap in his second year?

I think Denver already opened up camp? Or maybe today ... regardless, we should start seeing guys trickle into Berea now

It's about getting the job done, one play at a time.

It's about the next play.

From what was published about camp the other day Derrick Willies had a good day.

Last year before he was injured he was doing well.

He really intrigues me. He is 6'4" 210 lb. Has got speed. Catches the ball clean. I love tall receivers with speed. When they learn how to use their body when covered they win a lot of 50/50 balls.

We have size at tight end. We are showing in camp a lot of plays going to TE's in the end zone.

Having a guy like Willies is another option that favors us in match ups. I would like to see him win one of those last receiver spots.

Our third and fourth receivers options would start on many teams.

I would hate to game plan against the Browns. We have so many ways to skin the cat.

Ever since last year’s TC, Baker has had good chemistry with Williies, Ratley, and Higgins ... I think all 3 stick, unless Ratley can’t make the field

THATS MY BOY ...

Takitaki

I don't know whether to be excited of scared of Takitaki LOL

All I've read says the guy is a High Motor kinda guy.. But maybe lacks some control of that motor... I guess time will tell.. Is he our 'Ray Lewis"?

Is it possible for BM to be the camp surprise. Watched some Camp Berea today on NFL, and he was good, but smoother than I thought he might be. Might be better, maybe a lot better, as true first season/full season QB. Just so many good things looked solid.

A bunch of them looked sharp. Nice to see after BSPN trashed them earlier this week. Just disgusted with their "expert analysts" and insights.

I hope you’re right! It’s so hard for me to get much out of watching the clips

I left Training Camp and the Scrimmage very surprised w/Pharoah Brown and MAck Wilson! Without hesitation I would cut DeValve and keep Brown!