Wow.

EX-Browns OL coach Bob Wylie rips Freddie Kitchens, saying QB coach Ken Zampese did all the coaching - cleveland.com
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/08...e-coaching.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Former Browns offensive line coach Bob Wylie had some harsh words for the Browns organization in a radio interview Saturday.

For starters, he said he was surprised when Freddie Kitchens was hired as head coach considering quarterbacks coach Kenny Zampese was the mastermind behind the Browns’ explosive offense in the final eight weeks of the season.

“Baker (Mayfield) likes Freddie,’’ Wylie said on The Zach Gelb Show on CBS Sports Radio. “There’s a good relationship there even though (former Browns QB coach) Kenny Zampese did all the coaching there. Baker likes Freddie, so that had to (factor) into the decision.’’

Wylie, who was fired after the season along with the most of the assistants hired by Hue Jackson, charged that interim coach Gregg Williams didn’t get the head coaching job because Dorsey didn’t want him.

“My own personal feeling is Gregg was too strong a candidate for the seat,’’ Wylie said on The Zach Gelb Show on CBS Sports Radio. “I don’t think Dorsey wanted to go head-to-head with Williams like he had to do with Andy Reid in Kansas City, so he kind of filtered Gregg out of the picture.’’

Wylie, who left the Browns in late December because of a serious ankle and knee injury, said he heard about his firing from his daughter.

“My daughter called me and said, ‘Hey, dad, you just got fired today,’’ Wylie said. “That’s the first time I head about it.’’

Sounds like he had loyalty to the guys who were let go ... everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I don’t think he should be public about it.

No doubt Baker and Freddie have a good relationship. As to who coached how much? I don’t know any of that info of course

Never thought I would read this.

No different than with Hue.. sometimes its best to just keep quiet.

Bob Wylie is Hue’s guy. Zampese is Hue’s guy. All three are currently unemployed.

If the things Wylie says are true then there is cause to be concerned. You don’t get TV and radio appearances saying what everyone already knows.

It is unfortunate that when coaching changes are made people get hurt.

GW has been around a long time. There were a number of head coaching opportunities. He was hired as a coordinator.

I don't believe saying what he said in regards to Zampese was necessary. Dorsey was fully aware of what was in front of him. He made his decision.

I am looking forward.

Doesn't surprise me at all. I PMed w/a couple of guys and gave my thoughts on how I thought some of this went down w/both coaches and players who are no longer here. I an also not surprised by some of the reactions on here.

I'll just say that Wylie is not a "cookie-cutter" OL coach. LOL

I’ll trust Dorsey’s opinion of Kitchens over Wylie.

What makes me question the veracity of his statements is that I have seen Zampese be the OC for multiple teams and really saw nothing but band, vanilla, uninspired play calling.

If Wylie is to be believed, and I don't know if he is or not, then Dorsey picked the coach that he can control the most. That seems like a bad thing but it might also mean that the GM and coach actually get along for once which would be a nice change.

Zampese got fired midseason by the Bengals in 2017. He is currently unemployed after taking a job with the AAF.

Very good point.

If this were true, we would have heard it first from a sports reporter in Denver!

Just kidding.

I am sure there are some sour grapes here, but I am also sure that there are some elements of this that are true.

The extent of either is something that only the insiders know.

I am just speculating and I have zero proof at all.

I think the part about is daughter was true.

I think that Freddie was involved in the offense more than Bob is saying. I will say that perhaps Zampese helped out a lot, but I think Freddie put his stamp on things.

I think the relationship between Freddie and Baker is very, very true. That isn't a bad thing. I do think Baker's influence cost some coaches and players their jobs.

I think the Williams things is.......hmmmm.......not sure on that one at all.

Sounds a lot like sour grapes... if we win then I don't care what people say... if we lose then I'll get concerned..

J/c

I’m not sure if he’s accurate or not, but it makes sense. Not that I think it’s a BAD thing if Dorsey and Freddie are tight or it was a set up.

j/c

If the magic were coming from Zampeze, wouldn't we have heard about that last year while it was happening? The talk from the players and FO was all about Freddie. I don't recall anyone giving credit to Zampeze.

What's a Bob Wylie????

If Zampese was such a great coach how is it that when Hue and Todd Haley got fired that Freddie, who was the RB Coach, was named the interim OC and not Zampese who was the QB coach at the time and had prior OC experience.

MKC is such a hack. Of course, there's a possibility it all could be true. But Wylie gave the interview on Saturday. Same day she takes the controversial sound bites and writes an article. No research, no trying to get the other side of the story. She runs with the word of a guy who wasn't retained and may have an axe to grind.

For anyone that watches or listens to pressers, focus on MKC's questions. They are meant to get controversial sound bites. I can't stand her.

Is it news?

If so, then she, as a reporter, should report it.

Beat writers can't just report the good, and avoid the controversial .... even when it is as ridiculous as this appears. It's still news.

Sorry man. Sports writers aren't investigative reporters. The guy says it on a radio show and she reports what was said for those of us who didn't hear on the radio or see it on TV.

Not only did Hue lose the players, he had a divided coaching staff. Wiley is entitled to his view, and there is probably truth in his statements. This isn't a case where everything is truth on one side of the coin and untruth on the other.

I think his comments about Dorsey and Williams are probably true. Why wouldn't they have merit? If any of us went to hire someone, we would all pick someone we thought we could work with. Why would you not? That isn't a knock on Dorsey or Williams. Dorsey hired the person he thought would be the best fit for the team.

J/c

It’s kind of interesting that Hue, Haley, Wylie, Zampese don’t have jobs right now (unless I’m wrong)

Everything we heard up to this point is that it was Freddie that asked what plays Baker was most comfortable running; and that he was responsible for the creativity that was introduced in the offense. I don’t recall Baker ever mention Zampese in conjunction with his improved play the last eight games. For sure the o-line play greatly improved after the coaching change.

Fired coaches don’t help their prospects by dissing their former employers.And yeah, MKC does a disservice to all female reporters by constantly bringing the soap opera angles.

Agreed. Sounds like a case of sour grapes to me. I hope that's all it is. I would think JD knows more about how to run the team than some unemployed former coaches that were loyal to the previous head coaches. There has been a lot of positivity and optimism surrounding our Browns since last season ended and I hope it continues but as a Browns fan you can't help always looking over your shoulder waiting for the other shoe to drop. Hope it doesn't happen.

Is it?

Is it too much to ask to get something of substance from her? Her sole job seems to be to regurgitate things that will incite or be perceived as controversial. If that's what her job description is, maybe I'm off the mark with my comments.

Grossi does the same thing but on a smaller scale. He will actually write something of substance once in a while.

Players and other media know this and see this about Cleveland media and these two in particular. Baker openly mocks Grossi during pressers (I don't like it when he does that...not saying I agree with Bakers behavior).

It's something I've noticed from these two. Again, maybe that's their job and I'm the one who's got it wrong.

You missed the gist of my post.

Gregg Williams NEVER had a shot at the job ... EVER ... he got a courtesy interview like 30 seconds after the season ended ...

And it wasn’t GW vs FK ... there were another at least 3 or 4 interviewed ...

And here’s two things that clearly point to Bob acting out like a spurned child ...

- Zampese was the one that did all the coaching ... where was all that genius from Zampase at every other stop in his NFL career ... i was THRILLED to have him as the 3rd brain behind Hue and Haley ... how was i too know Hue somehow thought distancing himself from his own O was a smart thing to do ... BUT none of us have ever heard of Kenny being this great O mind and coach .. and if he’s such a great teacher and coach you’d figure he’d of been a hot butt commodity ,,, THAT MAKES NO SENSE ... 0 + 0 = 93 according to Bob’s math ...

- KJ didn’t want to get into a power struggle with GW ... ... thats absurd on a few levels .. 1st KJ has hit not one but two grand slams in his first draft and FA period that fueled last year’s turnaround and that pales in comparison to the IMMEDIATE IMPACT with the players we brought in this year .. sorry bobbie but thats BS at its best unless u think GW was going to turn into Billicheck overnight ...

In this case 0 + 0 = 9,891 .. its way off .. *L* ..

And u know Peen ... it would really SUCK IF the reason KJ hired Freddie was solely because they got along and Freddie would be his puppet ..

This is clearly a disgruntled ex IMO ...

PS. He don’t wear brown and orange no more ... u know the rest ..

I never said anything like that. I am just saying why would he hire somebody he might have a hard time dealing with?

Of course Freddie had to check off the boxes.

Sour grapes, nothing good to say about Kitchens nor Dorsey and yet they are the reason we have high expectations. Campese ran the offense - I'm sure he helped a lot in getting Baker executing better but where was he the first half???

He made it explosive? not Kitchens??? Why is it this is the first we have heard about this. Not one player mentioned this even the ones that are no longer with us. Not even Duke who is wanting out I would think that would have been the fastest way he could have gotten off the team and with another was to state that as a fact.

I like Wilies but he should learn when to shut up. He really liked the old guys Greg Williams and Zampese...Also he has to be a bit upset that his Daughter had to tell him he was fired.

Of course him being sidelined due to the ankle injury didn't have him in the building.

I hate guys who trash our team "AFTER" they are fired!

Sorry, i wasn’t clear enough ...

That was just a general comment not meant to insinuate thats what u said in your post ..

Sorry bro .. i can see how u thought that was directed at u .. oooops ..

The ONLY one saying this is a guy that's pizzed that he got fired? GMAB.

J/c

Other than the two internal candidates, who else did we seriously consider?

We did 2nd interviews with two others not named Freddie i believe ...

The dude from Minni, their OC now i think was one of them ..

Can’t remember the 2nd one ... if there was a 2nd one .. *L* ...

Other than with some on here and in the press GW was never a serious option .. EVER ...

That was 100% a courtesy interview ...

Yeah, I agree GW wasn’t a choice really ... I just couldn’t recall if we even interviewed a lot of others

We interviewed 4 or 5 others ... i was only talking about those invited back for 2nd’s ... and i’m not sure of that but i think there were two ...

This here should lend weight to which of the scenarios it the most truthful/likely (I'm sure there is elements of truth in some part of both sides, but having a small element of truth to a story doesn't make the whole or bigger story true - far from it) .... but to me the notion that the likes of Hue, Haley and Zampese don't have jobs because Baker is a pulling strings or a brat ... or because Dorsey is afraid of big personalities seems unlikely at best.

Thanks, I am with you there

j/c:

It's amazing how much inside information so many board members have.

The only thing that matters, at all, is how the team performs moving forward. Everything else is noise designed to elicit a response, none of this nonsense is capable of eliciting action, so it's pointless. Maybe someday, some sports historian will write an essay on the reemergence of the Browns and this may be a minor footnote. Beyond that, it has no value.

I think that is a very good point. As long as the Browns are successful w/Dorsey, Freddie, and Baker.......none of this matters at all.

Note that all Wylie said is that Zampese COACHED Baker.

He was the QB COACH. Duh.

The author of the article took this and made the statement
"...Kenny Zampese was the MASTERMIND behind the Browns’ explosive offense in the final eight weeks of the season."

Wylie said no such thing. Terrible hyperbolic click bait reporting.

Sadly it worked on me lol

I didn't hear the interview.

Are you saying MKC added the mastermind part?

Hate this kind of story/interview, also don't care for MKC's habit of trying to manufacture drama. What is the point and purpose here? Even if Wylie is on point and FK is <Zampese
for "masterminding" BakerBall, so what? Hue is out and so are the others. This just in: Still gone. We have plenty in front of us to concern us; last season's losses and melodrama are not in front of us. So why is this an interview focus, other than to manufacture more negativity aimed at the Browns. I get all of that I can stomach by the "experts" and "analysts" on NFL coverage on TV. I ignore the cheap shot crappy "analysis" that is really unfair to the current squad and coaches. Dumb to recite playoff drought, too many stars, too many egos, and the litany is ongoing against us.

The job of a beat writer today is to aggregate news from other sources and regurgitate it in a way people can understand then hope people click the link. If you fall into a story, like MKC did with Hue last year, great.

Her job is to report news about the Browns. A former coach said something about the current GM, head coach, and QB. That is news.

It is odd how such comments are perceived on this board. It often hinges strictly on who is making the comments and who those comments are about.

Haley just came out and said he was trying to get Haslam to pull the plug on "Hard Knocks" and Hue was all for it because he thought he could make himself look better with more face time on camera.

One sign of a bad organization is the amount of dirty laundry that gets aired in the aftermath.

Hue was Hue's biggest supporter.

In some cases that is a good thing.

J/c

MKC is no better or worse than most other beat writers. It’s very evident why she is so despised by so many Browns fans.

Do you mean it's because she's a woman?

That's not why I can't stand her work. She's a muckraker, a poor writer and her articles are too long-winded. She needs an editor.

Wylie was fun to watch and listen too,, but it's clear to me that he has some hard feelings.. I think this is not worth too much.

This is classic.

We as fans shouldn't give this the energy or time of day. As Baker said when he first came in..."I don't care what happened before, It's about what happens now" (or something to that effect). Same with this story...it's nonsense and total crap that means nothing at this point in time or the current juncture that the team sits at. Let's all (esp the journalists!) move past this nonsense, look forward and focus on what will be, not what potentially was.

I think people should formulate their own thoughts and opinions on a subject rather than be told what to think. For example, I am totally cool w/someone saying:
"I am not going to give this the energy or time of day." I think folks should be allowed to express that opinion even if I don't totally agree w/it. However, it irks me a bit when one says: "We as fans shouldn't give this the energy or time of day." I just don't like being told what to think. I'm capable of making up my own mind.

Ok man. Not sure why you have to turn it into yet another spar and arm wrestling competition. All I am saying is it is a waste of time and energy to focus on the people who are not even here and were fired for a reason. I am focused on the present and the future. But you do you and I will do me. Cool? Cool.

I wasn't trying to fight w/you. I guess it might have to do something that I was alive at a time in our country where independent thought was encouraged. I was young when the hippies started their protests and were willing to get things changed in this country, but I always supported independent thinking over "we have to think...."

Perhaps you just misspoke and did not intend your comment to come out that. I already considered that and I wasn't being snarky. I promise. And I have no problem w/you thinking that it's a waste of time for you to think about what Wylie said. That's your right. I might think the same thing. I might not. But, I'll make my own choice.

Peace.

I'm older than you probably think. I have a 21 year old and a 19 year old. And, I teach so I encourage independent thought, problem solving and critical thinking skills.

My point being that I don't believe these type of stories are any of the above...they are journalists stirring the pot because there isn't much else to talk about. It's no different than Cowherd constantly bringing up the flag planting, the crotch grabbing the running away from cops w/Mayfield. It's drama for the sake of drama. Let's move forward.

But, whatever. I'll leave this conversation for others and focus on the current team and coaches in Berea & Cleveland.

Peace.

Freddie Kitchens on former OL coach Bob Wylie

It seems Freddie didn't get your message.

What's amazing is i keep on thinking about Bob from What About Bob. Turns out, Bill Murray's character is Bob Wiley. Vs our Bob (Bob Wylie).

I'm sorry but, honestly, i'm quite sick of hearing from Bob Wylie already. The guy seems salty. He was good for a laugh, but I wasn't that impressed of him as a coach from what i saw on Hard Knocks.

I think this Campen guy will do us just fine.


And we're getting opinions on Freddie and last year from the guy who's butt hurt because he didn't get rehired. I'm sorry Bob. We've moved on.

This is pretty much how i feel about the whole thing at this point. Just go away Bob!

Actually, if you listen to his entire answer it seems he did. He says exactly what I am saying. IT DOESN'T MATTER. Let's focus on what really does matter.

Amen.

Bob and Freddie were on the same page last year. WTF happened???? Bob You know better you old fart

J/C

Freddie was pretty blunt (and good) IMO. Seems like there was a big divide with coaches/loyalty and that some in the organization were back stabbers

To me this is nothing more than an indication of the complete and total dysfunction we had last year.

Last year. This is a new year, a new season, and a new regime. Whether we win our not this season, this story is unrelated to anything associated with the current team

Oh i agree with you in regards to moving forward. But let's be honest here, the whole "I visited him in the hospital.... I faced time Bob every time before a game.....Bob knows, blah, blah blah....."

Come on PDX, he went on about "Bob" quite a bit. Let's not pretend he stopped with his opening comment.

Because he was asked a question by a media reporter. He then was respectful of Bob and then ultimately in 90 secs came around to..."if you don't wear brown and orange, you don't matter". Bob Wyle doesn't wear orange and brown. Full stop. Period. End of conversation. Good on him. It's nonsense. And, you can tell the more he thought about it the more PO'd he was with the question considering the nearly 40k fans at a practice and the fact that all proceeds went to charity. Now THAT'S the real story.

So he took 90 seconds to say "He isn't here anymore so it doesn't matter".

It's an odd thing these days. People wish to blame the response to a question because someone was asked a question.

It sounds like Freddie let it get to him for a second before he reigned himself back in. He sounds pissed/hurt.

The other thing I really want to say is THANK GOD this came out now vs the beginning of the offseason. I can't even imagine how brutal it would've been to have everyone getting wound up over this over the past couple months.

We'll see very soon how much of what Wylie said is true.

I sometimes liken this Dawgtalkers experience to being trapped in a bad episode of the Twilight Zone...

I find it entertaining.

There are alot of people who spend alot of time on here. They are the most entertaining.

No, it's more like people saying he can't let "it" go when he's responding to a direct question about "it".

j/c:

I am going to give my opinion on the Wylie situation. I am NOT telling anyone to agree w/me. I am not even asking anyone to agree w/me. It's just me voicing my own personal opinion.

If the Browns win big under Freddie and Dorsey, what Wylie says will mean absolutely nothing.

If the Browns lose this upcoming year and there are coaching questions, than Wylie's quotes will carry a bit more weight w/me.

I'm hoping for the former.

One thing about Wylie....was it him who chose to start Desmond Harrison? If so, how could he not see that Robinson was better? I mean, he is paid to coach and evaluate and (I assume) inform the HC as to who the best 5 lineman are to start from week to week.

If that was Freddie's decision to make the change from Harrison to Robinson that to me says it all about Wylie as a coach (and/or Hue's decisions on weekly roster evaluation).

I think it was Hue's decision. And it wasn't Freddie's decision to start Robinson over Harrison. Harrison was injured or sick or something and missed a couple of weeks so they inserted Robinson. He played well enough that they didn't switch back.

Btw......Harrison was not a bad player. He is just a head case. He had a ton of potential.

Never said DH was a bad player, but the numbers speak. Tyrod got hit a lot and Baker was getting hit a lot too. His number of hits dramatically went down with Robinson in and Freddie's playcalling.

I guess I am wondering more about how good a coach Wylie actually was. Correct me if I'm wrong...wasn't he in the CFL when he came to CLE? And, before that he was in Oakland. Was he Hue's guy in OAK? If so, that may have something to do with all this nonsense. He also became a big character via 'Hard Knocks', but so did Cajuste and where is he now? The public just liked Wylie's colorful personality, his lack of physical fitness telling guys "stretching is overrated" & his gut moves with "Hut Hut". But, honestly....was he/is he any good? I don't know? Guess we will find out w/Campen in charge.

Wylie was the OL coach under both Hue/Haley and Williams/Freddie. He was always a well-respected OL coach. GM even started a thread about him that accentuated how good he was.

I get the need to knock him because he said something we don't like, but I'm not going to be part of that movement.

I'm not knocking him...I am asking a question I have always asked during his Browns tenureship. Was he any good? I honestly do not know. But, I did answer my other question....Wylie WAS w/Hue in Oakland and when Hue was fired in OAK Wylie went to the CFL and returned when Hue hired him in CLE. So, there is an obvious allegiance there w/Hue. That to me speaks volumes about all of these rubbish articles.

Our W/L record means nothing to me as far about what I think about Bob Wylie. I like Bob Wylie. He's your crazy Uncle Ted. He can manage accomplishments in short spurts but just struggles to maintain anything long term. He even knows magic tricks. He's lovable and harmless.

He's loyal too.

Loyal enough to leak a little something to the press when his boss is having a bad day.

I had and voiced my doubts about Freddie Kitchens over GW from the start. Our W/L record might validate that a little bit, but given the amount of turnover in coaching and the offensive system, I'm pretty sure I'm already prone to a Mulligan year.

Dorsey has done enough to probably get more than a Mulligan year from me. Even if I hate Kitchens in year two, it's probably going to be a lot longer before that hate moves to Dorsey. He's earned that much.

So if our W/L record isn't what I think it should be, I'm going to first look at what I think the reason is. I'm then going to probably pile all of what I mentioned above on that. What Uncle Bob Wylie said won't have much to do with it. Nor will what Haley just said. I like Uncle Bob Wylie a lot more than I like Haley though.

You do realize I am not ignorant, right? I'm good w/your opinion. It's yours, after all. However, I do see what you are doing. It won't change my mind on how I view the situation, but it may sit well w/other posters.

I could add that we certainly turn this "loyalty" angle around and that guys like Wylie, Williams, and certain players are no longer here because they were loyal to Hue.

Freddie won. He has his guys and discarded the guys he did no want. That is well w/in his rights and it's something almost every coach does. But sorry man, I am not buying into this good and bad thing or the "rubbish" thing.

Of course, I will be in the minority when it comes to that. Hell, I even had one poster tell me that racism plays no part in how the media and many fans look at the actions of certain players. He said that was BS. LOL..........

Hmmmm...............this is an interesting post. Far different from most takes. I respect that. Not that you care if I respect it or not. LOL

It's all good. This is just my take and my opinion. Independent thought. We're good and I'm not fighting...just putting forward different thoughts and an opinion that I don't trust all this stirring the pot journalism as it is pointless and isn't healthy for the team and coaches that currently occupy Berea.

"Rubbish", btw, means garbage. My wife is English, we have been together since 1992. I lived in England for 14 years and was surrounded by Brits....so yeah, I have picked up a few words here and there just as she has picked up some American words. It's just how I talk.

The last part regarding a post on racism...that has nothing to do with this conversation. That is going on in the Political forum.

I don't care much if anyone respects what I say on a message board, but if you want to view me as Uncle Bob Wylie, that's fine by me.

Cool. I respect your opinion. And it makes sense.

Meh.. There's a game albeit preseason in a few days. Wylie? Meh.

Just CLickin,
Did anyone of the people on this forum actually listen to the interview he gave :

https://cbssportsradio.radio.com/articles/former-browns-ol-coach-bob-wylie-i-got-fired-hospital

There was really nothing in the interview were Wylie was taking cheap shots and the Browns or Kitchens. He answered questions from his perspective with reasonable explanations.
Yes, the QB coach works closer with the QB than the O-coordinator. Yes, Todd Haley was causing tension in the locker room and with the head coach. Yes, Kitchens has NEVER BEEN a head coach and the team last year was under Greg Williams. And YES, when your franchise QB likes you, you got a shot at being the coach.

So what of those things are a lie?? Or what of those things was new news?? BTW - all the old coaches who were apart of the 7 win team are not there anymore, So Kitchens has to do this with a unproven staff. That is all totally true!

You mean MKC embellished to create drama?

No way. No. Way.

Rishuz,
Anyone should know better than to click on a MKC article. Now
Marla Ridenour writes circles around MKC!!

just another case of somebody outside of the organization trying to stir up crap.

I listened to it. And again, nothing in it has any relevance to what is happening now. It was primarily a self-congratulatory diatribe. Freddie said it best, sometimes people need to be made to feel relevant. Bob Wylie, no matter what he says, what type of coach he was, or what type of person he is, no longer wears Orange and Brown.

Cal,
Atleast you listened to it. And it was not really as bad as folks make it out to be. Ex employee gives his opinion about former employer. OK!.. And again, there was nothing he said that was really a blast on the Browns or Kitchens.

It's odd how fans blame journalists for twisting a message, when in fact, often times they do the same thing.

Wylie didn't really say anything out of the way but when you read this board, you would think he shot some posters momma's.

FWIW, that's the way I took it also

I agree in that I didn't find it all that disparaging, just irrelevant, condescending, and mostly self-promoting and self-congratulatory.

Tend to agree with Freddie on this one. The only person I have ever seen affect a franchise at the O-line coach spot is Mike Munchak. Other than that, either the players execute well or they don't.

Sounds like some sour grapes from Wylie.

We probably should have kept Greg Williams as HC. He is the one who turned this thing around. Literally ever other team would have hired Williams in the situation we had last year.

Greg Williams was the Right Coach for the Right Team at the right time and i fear we blew it.

If Kitchens goes 5-11, 6-10, etc I think Haslam snaps and blows everything up.

I firmly believe the ONLY reason Williams didn't get the job was because Dorsey was afraid of a strong experienced coach like Williams would cause a power struggle with him much like Reid in Kansas City.

Williams would have had ideas to make things better here, and I could have seen Haslam going along with some of those ideas. Dorsey was afraid of being pushed out by Williams just like he was pushed out by Reid in KC.

John Dorsey is NOT a good GM. He is a guy that is ok for a year or two but then screw things up.

Look no farther than his screw ups with the Chiefs



The Chiefs got rid of Dorsey because of Dorsey doing what Dorsey always does. Things becoming less collaborative, him going on his instincts, People left scratching their heads wondering what in the **** is Dorsey doing?!

The Kareem Hunt move was a prime example of Dorsey already starting the BS that got the Hunt's to cut ways with him KC. the only reason he brought in Hunt was because he drafted him. Had Hunt not been drafted by Dorsey we would not have touched him with his character issues.

its a problem that is already starting to fester.

I was really hoping Dorsey had changed. That he was going to be a good talent evaluator, sign guys that make sense, and move the team forward. He seemed to do just that in year one, but now that he has Jackson out of the way, and it appears Haslam has given Dorsey Autonomy he is starting to drift back into what got him canned in KC.

I just hope we can win a Super Bowl in the next year or two before this whole Dorsey thing blows up in our faces...

WOWZER ... so glad you let me know the real Dorsey. Here I was blissfully thinking that in two drafts Dorsey was responsible for taking a win-less team to being on the verge of being expected to contend for the division and a Playoff run... phew. Thanks dude. I guess we should be all in on a first round QB next year too.

Dorsey walked into a perfect situation. I don't think he really done anything great.

Sashi Browns plan was to fill the bottom of the roster the 1st two years and stock pile picks. This he done. in 2017 he took Myles Garret who is probably the best De to come out of the draft since Bruce Smith. In two years it looks like that pick was a home run.

Sashi Brown would have taken Mayfield and Ward in the 1st rd too. they were the best players on the boards at those spots. Ward for sure since we cut Haden. Dorsey didn't do anything ground breaking, year 3 was always the target year to move things forward. Part of me wishes Brown would have gotten year 3 because I think he would have turned things around too.

Sashi Brown was far smarter than folks give him credit for, and he was innovative too. Brown is more responsible for our turnaround than Dorsey even if he isn't here. It was Brown that tore our roster down to the studs and rebuilt it.

I mean Myles Garret, Joe Schobert, (both Pro Bowlers picked by Brown), Higgins, Peppers(starting for NYG a future Pro Bowler), Larry Ogunjobi, David Njoku, I'd say Brown put the 4 core pieces of the team in place that allowed us to turn things around last year.

Ogunjobi should have gotten a Pro Bowl already he will probably get it this year. that would be 3 Pro bowlers in two drafts for Sashi Brown, that puts him in the elite status.

Most of the hard work was done when Dorsey got here. He had a huge pile of cash and stupid amount of picks. If he didn't get something good he would have had to be braindead.

Yeah, we've had numerous and high draft picks many times. Yet nobody managed to build anything. I mean it's just so easy to do we could have hired anybody.

Knight...you do realize that Gregg wasn't hired for any HC vacancy. Why is that?

I take nothing away from what GW achieved when here and the FUBAR scenario he was caught up in and inherited in week 8, but when multiple teams were hiring for HC he secured a DC gig. I think that may speak volumes about his reputation and how the league views him. Again, I have total respect for GW and am grateful for what he did in his interim as HC, but until proven otherwise I 100% trust Dorsey on this one.

First, we might want to see the team perform before we attempt to judge the job Dorsey has done. As of today, we have no basis to judge Dorsey as you are attempting to do before the 2019 season starts..ya think?

Knight of Brown...do you have any idea who ANDY REID is?

...that is the main reason Dorsey was cut lose by the Chiefs.

Hiring Andy Reid, knowing he had a history of wanting full control over football matters in Philly and after they hired a strong GM such as Dorsey, spelled trouble from day Reid was hired by the Chiefs.

The Browns are lucky to land Dorsey, given Haslam's record as owner.

I think anyone who reads him is high ... i don’t understand why anyone reads him ...

I may not realize it when I start each post, but 75% of what I read here is for the sheer comedic value.

He spells rEally well and gots gOod graMmer!!

...

To each their own i guess ....

How is he at ...

LETS GOOOOOOOooooooo

Yeah, the Chiefs suck.

I don't agree with Knight, but do in regard to cap. We have to be smart here for the next few years. Hopefully Depo can have some influence on John in regards to cap.

We have some pretty important players we will need to sign.


None the less, John gets a A-/B+ for what he has done to this point.

Remove oneself from any moral issue of signing Hunt and I think Dorsey fairly grades at an A-. The only ding I have him on is Corbett at 33. The kid may well become what we hope we have in a #33 draft pick. Mitchell Schwartz got a lot of heat & criticism in this very forum from many folks in here, yet he has grown to become a top RT in the league and we all bemoaned when we lost him. So, Corbett COULD still tap out as a great pick, which would push Dorsey into A+ territory. But, currently from the looks of things Corbett is struggling to stand out amongst his competition. I could also, possibly ding Dorsey on the kicking situation, esp as we used a 5th round pick for AS. But, as I mentioned in the punting/Scottish Hammer thread, I seriously wonder if both kickers struggles are due to the Hammer holding.

Every couple weeks or so, a post makes me laugh out loud. This was one of those times,

Dorsey gets an A+. He has made so many great moves that it's hard to count them all. This roster sucked until he got here. He's transformed into one of the best rosters in the entire league in less than two years after having the absolute worst roster in the entire league under Sashi.

He stole Randall. He stole OBJ. He stole Landry. He got draft picks for the crap that Sashi brought in at qb in Kizer, Cody, and Hogan. Baker was a great pick. So were Ward and Chubb.

LOL.............glad you liked it, bro.

Even though I knock him on Corbett and the verdict is still out on the 5th rounder for a kicker who is struggling....I can totally see any argument to grade him an A+, so I don't dispute your grade and can see its justification.

Well, I spoke it like a fact, but it just my opinion. I mean, we can grade each individual move, but the bottom line [in my opinion] is that we had the worst roster in the entire NFL when Sashi was in charge and we now have one of the best. Hell, guys like Diam say we have more talent than anyone. I won't go that far, but our talent level is high. And PDX, he did it in two years. That's amazing to me.

With that said, I have no problem w/the grade you assigned. It's all pretty subjective, so I am not arguing. Just discussing.

Yep. Choked on my coffee. Poor KOB did all that typing and got destroyed with four words lmao.

I agree man. I totally don't understand Knight's issues above. I mean, I respect the hell out of what Gregg did in the scenario he inherited, but let's be honest...he didn't get the HC gig and he didn't get other HC gigs. I don't believe that has anything to do with Dorsey...that says more about GW and how the league views him.

Now, Dorsey turning the Browns around...if we contend, let alone go to the SB and win either this year or next year...he has to be in the conversation for HoF. That will be the biggest turnaround in the history of the league. I understand also that there are some questions at cap, especially when Myles and Baker move off their rookie contracts, but the man has worked wonders and overhauled this roster in magical form.

In Dorsey I Trust, for sure.

Are u kidding me ... last years draft could go down as one of the greatest of all time ...

Bake .. Ward .. Chubb ... the trades, FA’s ... how is he not an A+ ...

PDX glad i wasn’t in your class dawg, your one tough butt grader ... *L* ..

What the heck bro ... he missed on Corbett (not ready to concede that but even if i was) but hit on 3 potential SUPER STUDS ... and there’s some other guys that didn’t get PT from that draft we don’t know about yet and thats just ONE DRAFT ...

Look at any position on the team and compare it to where it was just 2 short years ago .. the DL could be the best in football .. it’s LOADED and i mean LOADED ....

IMO his glaring mistake was letting McCourtney go for all the wrong reasons ...

This has gotta be the biggest roster transformation in the history of the league in a mere two off seasons ...

So happy i wasn’t in one of your classes dawg .. *L* ...

PDX was being cool about it. He was responding to peen, who is a huge Sashi guy, and peen set the bar. I wouldn't get on PDX for what he said. I think he's being cool and perhaps he didn't factor in the trades when he made his first evaluation?

Besides all of that..........it's all just opinion. Not a big deal.

Get on him? ... good god man ... it was light hearted ... sheesh bro .. i wasn’t getting on him ...

I simply provided my take while breaking his chops a little ...

I have a really, really hard time communicating on here. You missed my point yet again. Later.

Not to mention that he also hit on solid to better contributors in Callaway and Avery.

I have a feeling that Corbett is going to wind up at C.

Who knows what will become of Thomas (who I liked in the draft) and Ratley. Even if these 3 bust, our other 5 picks make this a great draft.

I forgot about Calloway ... if he ever “gets it” and starts working he can be special ... he can do things not many can ...

32 or 33 days way i believe ...

I can’t wait ...

Diam, I know you were being light hearted, but as I said, I got the guy at an A....but, dropped to an A- simply because of Corbett. If Corbett were anything less than the first pick of the 2nd round he would easily get an A+ in my book. If I had to give his A- a number grade...I'm not talking 90 or 91...it would be pushing into the A territory of 92/93. But, I also said if AC pans out he receives an A+.

My only other question mark on Dorsey is Austin Seibert. A 5th round pick is a decent value (Genard Avery and Mack Wilson were nailed in this round!) and the kid is struggling, but I reserve judgement until we find out if the issue is the holder or not. Still, kicking in the summer is different than kicking in winter. And, I fear we will lose games down to our kicking game.

But dude...trust me, I love everything Dorsey has done and I am totally with you and Vers on everything.

J/c

Dorsey, with all of our assets, has found some very good players. He seems to be a very good evaluator of DBs and skill guys ... now let’s also hope that his acquisitions/drafting of OL/DL is just as good

Well I’d rather be in your class than Peen’s if it makes u feel any bettor ... *L* ...

When u add it all together .... combining all his “mistakes” ... u have McCourtney, Corbett and Siebert .... that’s pretty dang good and he has put us in an AWESOME POSITION and thats all any of us care about ...

I would wait another year to put Corbett in the miss column and i would at least wait til TC’s over to bury Siebert .... he’s still got a ways to go but if your following the numbers he’s improving ... he was 2 or 3 for 5 for pretty much every day the first week ...i didn’t see yesterday’s numbers but in the practices before that he hit 4 a few times ...

Enjoy your day dawg ... your grind starts soon ...

To go along with Corbett, I’d add Chad Thomas as someone who we have to wait on ... he’s certainly not done much to inspire hope ... but we’ll see

This is when Vers just drops the mic and walks off the stage.

Agreed on all of the above. I am trying to be patient about Corbett...I keep telling myself that and I will give him this year before I throw my hands up and say it was a busted pick. But, you gotta admit that the kid isn't looking brilliant as of yet. Fingers crossed.

Regarding Seibert, I keep saying that I think it could be the holders as when I was at Camp and at scrimmage both kickers hit w/Colquitt holding while both kickers missed w/Jaime. Yesterday (8/6) both kickers missed a few and I'm pretty certain I read somewhere that it was w/the Hammer. But, I still hold my breath dude, because we all know what it's like in Cleveland in Nov/Dec and Jan. Joseph made me nervous last year and he missed a few crucial ones. But, he has also done it, had that pressure and kicked in bad weather. Seibert hasn't. Not saying that Joseph gets the job...I'm not sold on him either. But, dawg...imagine if making the playoffs comes down to a missed FG which results in a loss? Imagine we make the playoffs and the game comes down to a FG or even a PAT? I'm tellin' you man, as of today....I'm nervous about that position group. But, if it were one or the other, I'd rather have those worries than our typical stressing about who is under center.

just clicking...and hopefully getting back to the actual topic...

from Terry Pluto
Terry Talks - Why Wylie spoke out.

Some of this has already been speculated in this thread...But a decent read in any case.

I loved the comment "he was a Jackson man, he learned to throw someone under the bus from the master".

It seems as though people really don't mind seeing others thrown under the bus. It all seems to hinge on who it is throwing who under the bus.

LOL....I am not a Huge Sashi guy. I am a Huge anti- Hue guy.


At least get it right. Hue sucked at what he DID over what Sashi Does. One has a job in sports, one doesn't. Figure it out for crying out loud.

Sashi wasn't the GM.


I am tired of your crap bringing my name in to things when you don't have a clue what you are talking about, and yes, you don't have a clue in this case.


I am totally good with Dorsey, yet you get bunched up like Wylie when it comes to Hue.


Don't bother sending me a sorry PM. If you can't say it here, Don't. I will share it in public

I am not sorry for a thing you said. You are a huge Sashi guy and I remember all the insults that you directed toward mac when he questioned Sashi. Others would have been suspended, but not you. And you kept telling him to let it go. Then you went on a two-year crusade about Hue and you still knock him daily. Hypocrisy.

U want it both ways ...

If he wasn't the gm then what exactly is it he gets credit for? ....

Seriously ..... u can’t have it both ways ...

The GM is in charge of witch FA’s stay and witch ones go ... thier in charge of trades and drafts .... no? ...

So please IF he was not the gm what exactly did he do to deserve all this credit? ...

Remember, u can’t have it both ways ....

So please tell me what it is he gets credit for and tell me how he did it is he wasn’t he gm ...

And he’s working in a different sport is definitely check mate ... ...

Joe Thomas Thought George Warhop was his best coach...


jtfb


He said it right before the 9 minute mark.

He’s said this before as well. I remember him being here with Mack as well IIIRC

Yes ..Mack and Warhop both came into Cleveland in 2009..

Warhop left in 13.. and Mack in 15

I don't want it both ways. He was never the GM. He was the guy who broke ties in Haslams screwed up front office structure. He doesn't get credit for anything. In a perfect world all of the guys in the last front office would agree on a player and select that player. If there was disagreement, we had to have a final say. Sashi was the guy put in to that unfortunate position by Jimmy. I am just glad that Jimmy was willing to learn and grow. It looks like he has finally got something .

But now we digress. A new dawn is here. We have a solid GM who reports to Haslam. We have a coach who reports to the GM.

Our owner has grown in to the position. We have a solid GM, and we have a QB, and we have a head coach who gives us some hope (we hope)...the page has turned. I am not even sure why we keep talking about those other guys?

Speaking of dawn, it is about here. Time to head down to the river walk to get in the morning 5. We have some clouds in the sky. The sunrise should be inspiring.

thought so ... thanks

Hope u enjoyed your walk and it was an awesome sunrise ...

My feelings are Greg Williams would have been a good choice. He just didn’t mesh with what Baker’s talent and style brought IMO. And I’ve never really cared for Wylie’s style of coaching. So yeah, sour grapes. Baker’s raw talent and brash style took over when FK opened his cage, as the Hue regime went down in fizzle. Sour grapes. Dude should take care of himself and family and get a new life.

I did. Just got home about 20 minutes ago. I usually walk 5-6 miles Mon-Thurs, take Friday off then walk 6-7 on both Saturday and Sunday. I try to log 35 miles per week.

I like to get out there around 5:15 to beat the heat in the hot months. Once it cools down I wait until 8 or so. I don't really care how cold it is because it is rarely all that cold. The wind determines if I go. I skip it if it is 28° and the wind is whipping.

Was Sashi the GM? By title? No. By functionally? Yes
But the point is moot.

There are 3 mandates that I am sure he had:
1, create salary cap space - success
2, accumulate draft capitol - success
3, keep the team competitive while doing the above - fail

There is a 4th, I do not know if this was clearly expressed to him or not but it should have been priority 1.
To take this team from completely dysfunction to functional - utter failure
I think this is ultimately what led to his termination. If he had accomplished this then I think we could have brought in a seasoned GM to acquire talent and kept Sashi around, but because he failed and did so in such a completely inept way that he had to go.

You know what we've heard from Gregg Williams? Nothing. he got another job and went to work. End of discussion.

Jester, I would say that was probably the best post on Sashi that has been made on this board.

Thanks
Only took me what? 2 years to come up with that analysis

Well u usually are smart enough to stay out of the fray so it may have taken 2 years but not a ton of attempts ... *L* ...

I decided to take Peen’s advice and look forward ... i ignored the fact he said to look forward and then proceeded to do the opposite ... *L* ..

LETS GOOOOOOOOoooooooo

Now let's see if he can......

Thanks for the compliment. But staying out of the fray isn't because of intelligence. We all know to stay out. It's the self control to actually stay out that is tough. The mechanism I use to bolster my self control on various fracases is that I think abut all the energy that I am going to have to expend pointlessly arguing the points.

It doesn't take that much energy if you don't take it seriously.

I'm not trying to start Sashi war, but based on things we've been told by Sashi, Jimmy, and even Hue I don't believe this to be entirely true.

For me I think people look at the bottom line, see that we had won 1 game and that someone failed and someone had to go. And that's all. A lot of people are ok with the simplicity of "we sucked, someone had to go." I believe there's a lot more to it than that.

And this is really all I'm going to say about this. However, if someone wants to have a conversation about it you know where to find me.

I guess Bob Wylie doesn't look.so stupid now

this thread aged well.

lol

There was cause for concern. Wylie was to be believed.

Bob Wylie was a prophet.

Prophat

Proph-hut

It matters whose bus it is and who's driving. Where is this Berea Bus Lines charter going and going to end up?

Does look like Bob was on the money with his observations. Hard/impossible to believe that Dorsey wasn't aware.

Well, just based on what he said, he should get a job as an analyst or a coach

Ok, that was funny.

Seems like Bob Wylie was right. When he said it in August nobody wanted to believe him and downplayed his statements. Sort of reminds when Jose Canseco told everyone about the widespread use of steroids in baseball. Most didn't believe him and put him down. Jose was dead on right!!

No Wylies credibility was attacked by the homers on here

Now that's a first

What right do you have to say that?

The 5th Amendment...

that doesn't seem very credible

LOL.. the right of speech and being wrong thing...lmao..I feel like jumping off the bridge now ..Thanks...lol

"In Dorsey Wylie I Trust."

I'm glad to help!

Wouldn't the 5th prevent you from being forced to say ....... ?

I felt forced..now what do I do ..

Take the 5th.

lmbo