QB - 3 RB - 3 TE - 4 WR - 6 C - 2 G - 4 T - 3 (The official site shows only Tretter at C...I've moved Corbett there.)
DE - 4 DT - 4 LB - 7 CB - 5 S - 5 (Avery is listed as a LB and I left him there.)
ST - 3
#s are split evenly with 25 each on O & D.
QB
I'm not surprised at all here. This writing has been on the wall for a long time.
RB
I'm a little nervous here. Obviously Chubb is a stud. I like the other two guys enough...but I'd like another vet here just in case...and likely at the expense of the #s at TE. I hope these (3) guys can pass block enough to slow down the inside push that I think our RG is going to give up.
TE
I'm surprised that we have (4) TEs and not one of them appear to have played much in that FB/HB hybrid role. If we melded the (4) guys together, I feel like we'd have (1.75) TE's to work with. This looks like a crazy-weak group.
WR
Who would have thought that this group would play out like it did? Not only did we not trade any of the "wealth of talent" we thought we had there...we actually traded to bring in (2) new guys. Crazy. No one has picked up Strong...or Miller...or tried to get Willies.
OL
You need a flowchart and a road map to keep up with what has transpired here in the last few days. The starting lineup didn't change (or hasn't yet) from late TC. I think Teller will supplant Kush in short order. The depth appears to have gotten better. I'm concerned that the RG spot looks like it is being filled by default and not by legit talent. I'm surprised Corbett made it through. If Kush loses out the starting RG spot, I think he'll be released if they really think Corbett could play C THIS YEAR if need be. Scary.
DE
I'm not surprised here at all. Especially since I think Avery really makes this a (5) man unit. I'm disappointed that Zettel had to be cut...but it's a numbers game. It's interesting how many of these guys are talked about as being able to move inside on obvious passing downs. (Smith, Garrett, Thomas...that's 3 of 5.)
DT
I'm pleasantly surprised here from what were my thoughts when we were trying to sign Gerald McCoy...but we've been hearing good things about Lawrence and Ekuale for some time now. That...and they were both here last year.
LB
The real number in my mind is (6) guys. I'm stymied by the former Bengal pickup as he looks like another ST-only guy. I'd just as soon have kept Harvey if (6) has to be the #. I'm anxious to see Sho with real DT's in front of him. I think this is Kirksey's last year to play the Kenard Lang cheerleader / Joe Haden mouth roles. Wake me up when that guy has an impactful game.
CB
No surprises here either. Gaines going to IR sort of made this group a little more clear. I'm a little nervous about T Thomas being CB5...but we have some S's that are hybrid-enough to keep him as the ST demon that he is. Those first (4) guys are pretty darn good - Ward, Mitchell, Williams, Carrie.
S
It feels like we have (9) guys here...with none really standing out at SS. Whitehead started out on fire and then got dinged. I still think Burnett has been about as noticeable as a blade of grass in a field. As with the TE's - but not seeming to be as weak - we have a lot of bodies here but I'm worried what we would have even if we melded some of these guys into one.
STs
The angst with the (2) Rookies is well-known. I'd like to see Gillan handle kickoffs so we'd have another gunner. (Joking...maybe.)
We have a promising and much-improved roster (understatement alert). But it is far from complete. I think the TE question is glaring and I hope we find another guy to compete. The S spot has a lot of guys with promise who we need to have someone standout. The OL question goes beyond RG...but that's such a glaring spot that we kind of overlook the others outside of LG & C. I guess my biggest worry right now is at TE...which is kind of laughable given the stae of our team for about 18 of the last 20 years.
I'm surprised that we have (4) TEs and not one of them appear to have played much in that FB/HB hybrid role.
The new TE we just signed looks to potentially be brought in for that very reason (FB/blocking TE).
I hope you are correct. I feel like I'm reading conflicting reports on the whole blocking thing - maybe run v pass?
I shouldn't be "that guy"...but I'm leery about picking up anyone who was released by the Cards. I know we cut decent players on occasion while we were essentially the Cards...I hope he can be a guy for us.
I'm surprised that we have (4) TEs and not one of them appear to have played much in that FB/HB hybrid role.
The new TE we just signed looks to potentially be brought in for that very reason (FB/blocking TE).
My guess is that we will be running a lot less two and three tight end sets than we did last year because our personnel at wide receiver is so much better. Njoku will get the bulk of the playing time and then whoever the second tight end is will play about 30% of the time.
I'm surprised that we have (4) TEs and not one of them appear to have played much in that FB/HB hybrid role.
The new TE we just signed looks to potentially be brought in for that very reason (FB/blocking TE).
My guess is that we will be running a lot less two and three tight end sets than we did last year because our personnel at wide receiver is so much better. Njoku will get the bulk of the playing time and then whoever the second tight end is will play about 30% of the time.
That's an interesting take. I recollect that Freddie went to a lot of 2-TE sets last year to protect Baker...but we didn't have OBJ then... and Higgins' arrival was a little uncertain/unknown...and Callaway had been out of football...and Perriman's value was still suspect...and the schemes were being adjusted. I need to digest that a little more...but that could be spot on and would make me feel much better. Although (4) TEs on the 53 would be odd for such an allocation of plays/alignments.
Last year we loved multiple TEs at once (I think we were close to the top of the NFL in this regard) ... I can see that having better WRs would change this stat, but I still think they like to have the extra pass pro for Baker
I agree for the first 8 games our RB room is thin behind Chubb. The last half of the season though... we have the best RB room in the division and one of the best in the entire league. I just hope we use them. We were massively pass-happy during the preseason. To win in our division running the ball is still essential. We have a really good run/pass balance last season once Kitchens took over. I hope we play that way again this year.
Yeah that could be the case .. or one of the OL (seems like we have 1-2 more than usual) or maybe even Stanton
What if we cut Stanton after the first game when/if his salary is fully guaranteed...then he "retires" and becomes a coach?
He gets one more big payday (over a coach's salary anyway)...and stays with the team in case we need him. Frees up a roster spot and we still have him.
FWIW, I didn't verify anything with his salary as to whether it would/could be guaranteed after week 1.
I agree for the first 8 games our RB room is thin behind Chubb. The last half of the season though... we have the best RB room in the division and one of the best in the entire league. I just hope we use them. We were massively pass-happy during the preseason. To win in our division running the ball is still essential. We have a really good run/pass balance last season once Kitchens took over. I hope we play that way again this year.
Our TE position is no different than last year. Same guys , different names. Need an upgrade here for sure. Njoku is a young star though, but not much of a blocker.
RG could be a disaster. We have lots of depth here, but no one is legit.
Good news:
Baker is back and we have the Chubb! We have the Vice Grips and The Odell!
The D looks very promising.
This is the most I have been excited about a season since 1995 and we know how that went.
To win in our division running the ball is still essential. We have a really good run/pass balance last season once Kitchens took over. I hope we play that way again this year.
Last year under Kitchens we passed 59% of the time.
In 2019 establishing the run is no longer necessary, if anything it's a waste of time.
If you have a subscription to The Athletic the below article is worth reading:
running is very important, but it is no longer what the game is revolved around ... it’s a secondary facet of an offense; almost a bi-product of a good passing game.
Yes, you went too far and that is why I commented.
I did say that it was a passing league. However, I think that teams can both pass and run effectively have a huge advantage. Both of the Super Bowl participants--the Rams and Pats--were in the top 5 of both categories. The Saints were in the top 12 in both categories. The Chiefs probably could have been in the top in both categories, but they lost Hunt.
I think folks might want to think about what New England does. The Chargers dominated Baltimore w/6 DBs all game and the next week New England loaded up w/extra TEs and O-linemen and ran it right down the Charger's throats.
One things that skews the stats is the running out the clock. Of course the best teams are going to rush the ball more often. When they are leading late in the game they run the ball to run out the clock.
Heard a stat about the Cowboys and Zeke Elliott. Something along the lines of they wer "some-teen and 1" (I don't remember the exact number) when he rushes the ball 23 or more times a game.
Let's say he runs the ball 10x and they pass the ball 30x in the 1st 3.5 quarters and they are up 24-10 then he runs the ball 13 times in the final 6 minutes to run out the clock.
Did the Cowboys win because he ran the bal 23 times or did he run the ball 23 times because they were winning?
I wasn't questioning either of you. I was just pointing out that these stats are not simple to interpret.
Sometimes teams run the heck out of the ball and it results in a winning record. Other teams pass the heck out of the ball and have a winning record.
If you go into the last half of the 4th quarter with a decent lead then you are going to pad your stats in regards to number of runs
If you go into the last half of the 4th quarter with a significant lead and you try to run the ball to salt away the lead but can't run it successfully, then that lead is going to evaporate.
Sorry, I didn't think all that needed to be spelled out
Just a note you expressed a desire to have Willies WR and Harvey LB...I was happy to see both on our Practice Squad!
TE well we won't be using more than two at a time.
Pharaoh Brown: 6'6" 258 and in 2nd season. I thought showed the most in Preseason.
Demetrius Harris: 6'7" 230 6th season, well lets hope he was holding back in preseason games.
David Njoku: 6'4" 246 3rd season, I think is a stud and will own the middle if teams over play OBJ! He actually got better at blocking from what I saw but we are talking better than his AWFUL Status.
Ricky Seals Jones: 6'5" 243 3rd season, here is our H-Back as he has experience lining up in the backfield. Coming out of HS was the #2 Prospect in the country. Hopefully a chip on his shoulder and will be nasty in blocking. Oh he graded pretty high in Pass Blocking He was a waiver wire pick up by Dorsey!
No idea how we value Gathers...who goes? if not Gathers.Hope it would be Harris and not Brown.
I agree w/all that and even said so. However, a good running game is still important in the NFL and it is not "a waste of time." I didn't think I would have to spell it out again.
I never said that I thought the running game was a waste of time. I actually think that with the way defenses are going small to defend the pass that a smart play is to develop a good power run game. Modern defenses are not designed to stop it.
I could be crazy though, I also think that we should sign a guy like Karl Anthony Towns for Wr. Put a 7 footer out there, tell him to run 10 yards and turn around. Toss him a jump ball. Unstoppable in the red zone or on 4th and 5.
I know. We are not communicating well. My initial post was directed towards a couple of posters who said the running game was a waste of time. I disagreed. That's all.
With the recent news of Pouncey re-signing with the Chargers for one more year and $9 million .... it might make sense to try and re-sign Tretter right now. He’s going to be the most sought after C on the market, and if we don’t think Corbett is going to pan out we won’t have much leverage at the end of the year.
If we can get him at around $10 million per season it might be wise
Placing Drew Forbes on IR ensures he won't be picked up by another team for the 2019 season, and secures this without using a roster spot; however it also ensures he won't be available for the Browns for the next several weeks, odds are, the entire season. (Maybe his injury was season ending, making this point moot, but it wasn't widely mentioned WHat the severity of Forbes injury was.
I did spend a large part of this past day mulling over if they don't have Trevon Coley, who is going to hold the line vs the bull rush.
Ted Washington, then Phil Taylor, then Danny Shelton, then Trevon Coley,
( The strong force in the middle all the others gather around, If not there, you run the risk of getting your D-line shoved around all day).
The Browns must really like Forbes, and feel that he will be able to return this season, or else they wouldn't have gone through the gyrations of cutting Robinson in order to create a "53" spot for Forbes, so he would be eligible to return this season.
An oddly bittersweet act this morning...I looked throughout the web to see what players are still available to see if we can improve our team. (As if I'd actually know that )
Anyway...bitter to remember the days of desperation - hopefully gone now - looking for something to help my team not be so pathetic. Sweet because...well...you know.
The only guy that caught my somewhat-unknowing eye was Stefan Wisnieski. A few former Browns as well...but not anyone that made me yearn to see them back.
My other pre-season ritual had been to look at the practice squad and backup QBs for other teams. I know...pathetic. I've not done that yet for this year. (Although I did check to see that Blough made the Lions 53.) I'll do it at some point...but not with the same feeling of dread.
It’s obvious rookie head coach Freddie Kitchens is on the spot.
A recent USA Today story said the Browns are the No. 2 team picked to win the Super Bowl, behind the Chicago Bears. At least, that’s according to the wagering action in Las Vegas.
That’s a lot to ask of the lads in the orange helmets.
I’m going to operate on the assumption that Kitchens does a respectable job as head coach. He is surrounded with veteran coordinators, and that should help.
But as GM John Dorsey told me: “The great teams have always been self-regulated by the veterans in the locker room.”
That’s where it will be fascinating to watch the Browns.
This is not a team with a lot of players who have experienced much winning at the NFL level.
Consider some of the players mentioned by Dorsey who are emerging as team leaders:
1. QB Baker Mayfield.
2. Receivers Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckham Jr.
3. Guard Joel Bitonio.
4. Defensive ends Myles Garrett and Olivier Vernon.
5. Defensive tackle Sheldon Richardson.
6. Safety Damarious Randall.
This was not a complete list, just guys Dorsey quickly mentioned. The Browns named three captains, one for each unit: Christian Kirksey (defense), Charley Hughlett (special teams) and Mayfield (offense).
Add it all up and that’s 10 total players.
They have played in a total of eight post-season games: Randall (5), Beckham (1), Vernon (1) and Landry (1).
“They (good leaders) set the bar incredibly high,” said Dorsey. “It’s driven by the locker room. I’m starting to see that here.”
Just because they haven’t been to the postseason before, they still can make it happen now.
Mayfield is a natural leader with high expectations. The Browns have been very impressed with the growth of Garrett. Both are young, driven players – and the most talented on offense and defense.
That’s also critical to success.
Dorsey wanted to bring in Vernon for a variety of reasons.
“We now have two defensive ends,” he said. “That takes the pressure off 95 (Garrett). They (blockers) can’t always slide to 95. They may end up having to slide over to Olivier Vernon. It balances off the pass rush.”
He also believes Richardson will bring toughness to the middle of the defensive line. To avoid a rush from the edge (Garrett and Vernon), QBs may step up into the pocket. That’s where Richardson and young Larry Ogunjobi will be waiting for them.
The Browns believe the defensive line can set the leadership tone for the team, the playoff toughness that is required for success.
The Browns have playoff-caliber talent. Now, they must have key players turn into playoff-caliber leaders as they face the challenges and pressures of the season.
THE PRIEFER INFLUENCE
When I interviewed Dorsey, he discussed the need to take lots of opinions into consideration.
The biggest training camp decision was veteran punter Britton Colquitt vs. Jamie Gillan, the rookie known as The Scottish Hammer.
The Browns brought in Mike Priefer to fix their dismal special teams, ranked last in the NFL by profootballfocus and other rating services.
Priefer came from the Vikings. While the front office can be intrigued by the strong leg and athleticism of Gillan, it is Priefer who has to live with the young punter every day. Most veteran coaches such as Priefer prefer veteran players.
But Priefer pushed hard for Gillan.
“It would have been very hard to let a guy like Jamie out of the building,” said Priefer. “He’s so talented and has such a big leg swing. The sky is the limit and we’re just scratching the surface with him.”
Priefer praised Gillan for learning how to hold for rookie kicker Austin Seibert.
The Browns scouting staff spotted Gillan at Arkansas-Pine Bluff. Priefer went to the school to watch Gillan work out and was impressed. That continued ever since Gillan came to training camp.
Priefer said opposing special teams coaches have told him: “Wow! This guy is really good.”
Sunday, we’ll begin to find out if the Browns made the right decision.
Meanwhile, Colquitt signed with the Vikings – Priefer’s old team.
ABOUT THE BROWNS
1. You can’t find out about an offensive line until it plays for real. The closest thing to a significant test was in Tampa Bay, preseason Game 3. It didn’t look very good.
2. A year ago, Desmond Harrison opened the season at left tackle. He lost the job after eight games to Greg Robinson, the starter now. Ed Kush has taken over for excellent right guard Kevin Zeitler (traded to New York). The rest of the offensive line played all 16 games last season: JC Tretter (center), Chris Hubbard (right tackle) and Bitonio (left guard).
3. The point is the Browns have not made a big changes on the line, which allowed only five sacks in the final eight games. The difference is Kush for Zeitler. Dorsey on Austin Corbett: “Everybody progresses at a different pace. You have to exercise a degree of patience.”
4. I’m curious to see how Priefer handles the return game. It was hard to tell the best bets for punt and kick returns. Antonio Callaway showed some promise last year, but he’s suspended for the first four games in 2019. I’m guessing it will be Dontrell Hilliard.
5. I will be talking Cavs, Browns, Tribe and other things on September 10, 6:30 p.m. at the RODMAN Library in Alliance. The next appearance is September 23 at 6:30 p.m. at the Brunswick Library.
The ST’s is an area that not many people discuss (at least media wise) but it could be a BIG area of improvement ... let’s not forget how BAD we’ve been
Given the status of our offensive line, should we be lining up another third QB? Like one we released? Just a bunch of stuff can slide due south in a heartbeat or two. I would rather be in front of the crisis and breaking somebody in.
Browns place backup QB Drew Stanton on injured reserve
Stanton, who has been listed as No. 2 on Cleveland's depth chart behind Baker Mayfield, injured his knee during practice last week. He first appeared on the injury report Friday.
With Stanton out, Garrett Gilbert will be behind Mayfield when the Browns play the New York Jets on Monday night. Gilbert has appeared in one NFL game since 2014.
The 35-year-old Stanton has made 17 career starts since being selected by the Detroit Lions in 2007. Coach Freddie Kitchens has praised Stanton for his experience and steadiness.
The Browns also signed running back Elijah McGuire to the active roster from their practice squad. McGuire gives the Browns depth with Dontrell Hilliard out with a concussion sustained last week against Tennessee.
McGuire was drafted by the Jets in 2017. He made five starts and played in 24 games, rushing for 591 yards.
Yeah, but that will not be until Week 9 at the earliest. A player put on IR Designated to Return has to remain on IR for at least eight weeks, returning in the ninth.
Yeah, but that will not be until Week 9 at the earliest. A player put on IR Designated to Return has to remain on IR for at least eight weeks, returning in the ninth.
Yep...can't officially practice either. But...he can do whatever he wants on his own. So...you know.
I am wondering if we are more worried about our safeties this week, or more worried about our corners and thinking about moving Randall back to Corner for a week.
I am wondering if we are more worried about our safeties this week, or more worried about our corners and thinking about moving Randall back to Corner for a week.
I think we’re worried about everything this week haha ... from our OTs to our TEs to our QB to our HC to our DBs to our LBs to the penalties to the whole idea of stopping one of the best teams in the NFL
I am wondering if we are more worried about our safeties this week, or more worried about our corners and thinking about moving Randall back to Corner for a week.
Agreed. Between the way we've played and the injuries we're not close to being the team some expected and we have a tough 5 games ahead of us. 2-5 or even 1-6 is a real possibility. Reality is coming at us hard!
I had to double check the new IR rule. Teams no longer have to designate a player for return. So each player placed on IR is available to come back 6 weeks for practice and 8 weeks for a game. Teams can only bring back 2 players that have been placed on IR. https://twitter.com/chadp71/status/1175431611447500800
If I were a betting man, I would bet that Kirksey is done for this year, and will be elsewhere next year. So yes, I think he has played his last game as a Brown.
In his Monday press conference, Freddie was asked if he think that they need to bring in somebody to fill a lead blocker role. You could tell that Freddie was in agreement but was trying not to give a direct answer, probably because he is not in charge of personnel and doesn't want to create an issue.
I hope that they make a move to bring in someone to fill and H-back or fullback role. I just do not see how anyone can think that having all of these backup TEs is better than having a guy like Orson Charles that can be a lead blocker but also fill in at TE when needed.
In his Monday press conference, Freddie was asked if he think that they need to bring in somebody to fill a lead blocker role. You could tell that Freddie was in agreement but was trying not to give a direct answer, probably because he is not in charge of personnel and doesn't want to create an issue.
I hope that they make a move to bring in someone to fill and H-back or fullback role. I just do not see how anyone can think that having all of these backup TEs is better than having a guy like Orson Charles that can be a lead blocker but also fill in at TE when needed.
I had that exact same thought when I read FK's comments on the matter.
doesn't look like it's gonna be any easier this week in Baltimore, albeit, Randell will be back at Safety. Njoku and Kirdsey possibly need surgery, at least Njoku for his wrist, but Browns Daily did say both could be placed on IR, that would mean 8 games without both and likely bad news for Drew Forbes since a team can only bring back two players from IR and I believe it's OL we need the most help with.
Still, I think this team has heart and talent and they can pull out a win, even with the odds against them.
I agree that this makes more sense to me. We are throwing by default and BM helps us do that poorly. Run until you throw then. Get better at something. This underachieving may be explainable, but it is unacceptable to me.
doesn't look like it's gonna be any easier this week in Baltimore, albeit, Randell will be back at Safety. Njoku and Kirdsey possibly need surgery, at least Njoku for his wrist, but Browns Daily did say both could be placed on IR, that would mean 8 games without both and likely bad news for Drew Forbes since a team can only bring back two players from IR and I believe it's OL we need the most help with.
Still, I think this team has heart and talent and they can pull out a win, even with the odds against them.
I think Forbes and Njoku will be the (2) guys to come back from IR. I predict Forbes will be starting at RT by week 10...maybe even week 8 when he's eligible.
Njoku comes back immediately upon being eligible.
I also expect Teller to overtake Kush in short order.
Kirksey is done as a Brown. Not nearly enough production for the $$$. Mack is already better and Harvey was coming on strong at the end of the PS...and both those guys can play STs.
I hope Forbes can come back and become a consistent starter, I'm rooting for this kid, he's got my last name, so we could be related, I don't know. lmao
I don't know if I agree about Kirksey, they really seem to like his game play in the past few seasons and it seems like he has gotten better but I suppose it's not impossible, if they feel that other talents are as productive or even better, then it could be curtains for Kirksey, is it his contract year? If not, I don't think he goesanywhere. jmo
I hope Forbes can come back and become a consistent starter, I'm rooting for this kid, he's got my last name, so we could be related, I don't know. lmao
I don't know if I agree about Kirksey, they really seem to like his game play in the past few seasons and it seems like he has gotten better but I suppose it's not impossible, if they feel that other talents are as productive or even better, then it could be curtains for Kirksey, is it his contract year? If not, I don't think he goesanywhere. jmo
I'm hoping Forbes does well when he comes back too.
As far as Kirksey, I hope we keep him. I'd personally rather move on from Schobert before we do Kirksey.
With Callaway set to return today, a look at the roster leaves me thinking that a WR has to be cut to make room. Hodge or Taylor...maybe Ratley after his play yesterday. (Probably not.)
Could be someone heads to IR? Harvey may have serious damage to his shoulder. Hope not...L like the kid.
Could be R Jackson (CB) gets cut again if Ward/Williams are good-to-go.
Longer-term
I think these guys are at the bottom of the 53 right now - not in order:
Jackson (CB) Jefferson (LB) Hodge (WR) D Johnson (RB) P Brown (TE) Corbett (C) Lamm (T)
I think Njoku and Forbes return from IR.
It's a pretty good bottom 7 IMO...but I'd think those guys are on the bubble if something better crops up or gets healthy.
Not sure if this was discussed but in all of the discussion on roster moves from the off-season, it appears we didn't get the better end of the Zeitler for Vernon deal... Zeitler is one of the highest rated pass blocking OGs in the NFL, Vernon has 11 tackles and 1 sack...
Let me pick one and I think I would take that one back.. convince me I'm wrong.
Not sure if this was discussed but in all of the discussion on roster moves from the off-season, it appears we didn't get the better end of the Zeitler for Vernon deal... Zeitler is one of the highest rated pass blocking OGs in the NFL, Vernon has 11 tackles and 1 sack...
Let me pick one and I think I would take that one back.. convince me I'm wrong.
Let's wait and see what that 5th round pick becomes before we pass judgement on this ...
Hindsight 20/20 is fun. But it was pretty clear to many of us that more needed to happen on the OL. I was very hopeful after the Zeitlin/Vernon trade that others were in the works to address OL but not much. I don't think a decent OL would solve all our problems or would have won last night's game but it's clear to me it's our biggest problem aside from very green coaching & lack of mature leadership.
I live in NJ just outside of NYC, drowning in Giants fans (in-laws) and they're loving Peppers. He's been a revelation so far in the Giants D. It really goes to show that scheme sometimes makes or breaks the player.
Not sure if this was discussed but in all of the discussion on roster moves from the off-season, it appears we didn't get the better end of the Zeitler for Vernon deal... Zeitler is one of the highest rated pass blocking OGs in the NFL, Vernon has 11 tackles and 1 sack...
Let me pick one and I think I would take that one back.. convince me I'm wrong.
The Zeitler move could have been a future money move knowing they have a lot of players to pay.
Vernon has underwhelmed for sure. In fact, I’d go as far to say maybe we were better off doing this:
- Keeping Peppers - Keeping Zeitler - Keeping Ogbah - Keeping the 1st round pick and selecting an OT
Peppers has a pick 6 and a FF. Zeitler is Zeitler. Both Ogbah and Nassib are outperforming Vernon so far and I don't believe play as much. Jamie Collins has 47 tackles, 4.5 sacks, 3 Ints, and a 1 FF as well.
Why Rashard ‘Hollywood’ Higgins is Baker Mayfield’s missing link
If and when Rashard Higgins makes it back, take it to the bank Baker Mayfield will be humming hooray for Hollywood.
No one fully understands why Mayfield, the toast of the NFL last December, has been someone else this fall. At minimum, the absence of Higgins is a hidden factor.
Or, one might fairly observe that news Higgins practiced on a “full-go” basis Wednesday flashed like a neon sign.
Mayfield’s first two throws of his second season, against the Titans, were to Higgins. The second netted 11 yards and got the chains moving. Late in the same series, Mayfield went over the middle to Higgins for 35 yards to the 4. The Browns scored on the next play.
Higgins didn’t make it to the next game, leaving the opener with a knee issue. His has missed all four games since, including the disaster at San Francisco.
Mayfield and Higgins began bonding in the spring and summer of 2018, when Mayfield was relegated to working with backups because veteran Tyrod Taylor was the No. 1 quarterback, getting reps with starters.
Higgins, a backup, was trying to make himself more relevant after delivering less than 400 combined receiving yards in his two other seasons since arriving as the last of three wideouts the Browns drafted in 2016.
Mayfield began 2018 on the bench. Higgins carved out a role behind Jarvis Landry, Josh Gordon and Antonio Callaway. Through two full games and one half of Game 3, Higgins totaled 85 receiving yards. Starting with the second half of Game 3, when Mayfield replaced Taylor, through the next two games, Higgins racked up 158 yards and scored the Browns’ lone TD in a 12-9 overtime win over Baltimore. The team record was 2-1.
Higgins missed the next three games with a knee issue. Mayfield struggled, and the team went 0-3. Higgins returned for a 5-1 hot streak triggered by a win over the Falcons in which he made a 28-yard touchdown catch.
In the final two games, against the Bengals and Ravens, he was Mayfield’s top target, making 10 catches.
During this year’s training camp, Mayfield smiled about “the connection.”
“It goes back to last year and getting reps with him with the second team,” Mayfield said. “We built chemistry. I talked to him all the time.
“You knew exactly what you were going to get out of him on every play.”
Then came the preseason opener, in which Mayfield played just one series against Washington. What a series, and what a finish ... a 24-yard touchdown strike to Higgins.
The theory heading into the season suggested Higgins could do serious damage while defenses devoted coverage to Odell Beckham Jr. and Jarvis Landry. Nick Chubb understood.
Chubb, like Mayfield, spent months with the backups, including Higgins, before the 2018 season.
“I talk to ‘Higs’ all the time,” Chubb said. “I know the chemistry is there. Him and ‘Bake’ are always on the same page.
“When he was in, he always made big plays for us. He’s a big asset to our team.”
Higgins’ return could work two ways. Beckham and Landry siphon coverage away from him, but if he starts making plays, coverages must pay less attention to “the big two.”
Beckham is coming off the least productive two games of his career.
“It’s frustrating when teams take (Beckham) out of the game,” Mayfield said Wednesday, “but it’s also an opportunity for other guys to make plays.”
Higgins practiced on a limited basis last week but did play against the 49ers. The way a 31-3 loss played out made it evident they could use him when Seattle comes to Cleveland on Sunday.
The Browns have been without some players whose absence is more conspicuous than that of Higgins.
Cornerbacks Denzel Ward, the No. 4 overall pick of the 2018 draft, and Greedy Williams, the team’s top draft pick this year, both have missed the last three games with hamstring issues. Captain Christian Kirksey, a sixth-year linebacker, is on injured reserve.
Tight end David Njoku, a Round 1 pick in 2017, broke a wrist in Game 2 and is on injured reserve.
Meanwhile, the return of Higgins could wind up looking more conspicuous than one might think.
Maybe get a qb who can actually get all our weapons the ball?
Yeah...like that guy we had last year...#6...that guy.
Well said, both of you. And I mean that sincerely.
I hope this isn't true. I would hope that Dorsey isn't pushing the panic button 1/4 into the season. This offense would've needed a bit of time to gel even if we came out the gates with a playbook that made sense. We didn't, which means more time as we adapt.
But I'd almost feel dishonest if I didn't say that OBJ's talent is kinda wasted on this team, as it is. The offense that we should be really isn't going to take full advantage of his talents, and if nothing else, the Baker to OBJ backyard ball offense that we were looking forward to is a VERY long way off, if it even does come to fruition. That, to me, would be the most palatable reason for trading him. If we did make this move, we better be getting a player of the same caliber as OBJ (top of their position, entering their prime). I honestly don't want a pick. Teams looking to give away a top pick for a WR like him won't be picking in the top half of the draft, and I want guaranteed (as much as can be expected) talent. I would want a top flight TE or offensive lineman.
There's been speculation on local sports talk shows about the Pats trading for OBJ as well as AJ Green and Julio Jones. As far as OBJ I haven't heard what they might want to offer. Personally I would like to keep him. He is a very good weapon whether he catches the ball or draws attention away from our other players. We just need to find a way to utilize him better with our other guys but we all know that already.
...is completing more than 56 percent of his passes
--can see the field
--doesn't play hero ball
--has a QBR better than the 31st ranked qb w/a rating of 33.4
Considering our qb is playing w/the best offensive talent in the entire league, I don't think it is much of a stretch to expect a bit more from him.
He did all the things we needed from a FQB last year. What changed? The coaching has been atrocious as has the OL.
It must be terrible to hate players on your own team...especially those where a pre-draft evaluation was so poor.
When the schedule softens up and he has success in this cluster of an O, I'm sure you'll be here to talk about the competition...while conveniently forgetting the competition to date.
theres been tons of film showing him simply not making the right read or having his eyes in the wrong place. Theres a lack of confidence in this offense for sure. He doesn't trust his reads or he simply misses them all together.. Perfect example of not trusting so he could throw with anticipation was actually a completed pass to OBJ. It was a simple out route that had the ball been there when OBJ made his break he turns it upfield and gets YAC, but because he was late with the ball, OBJ could only catch and run out of bounds
theres been tons of film showing him simply not making the right read or having his eyes in the wrong place. Theres a lack of confidence in this offense for sure. He doesn't trust his reads or he simply misses them all together.. Perfect example of not trusting so he could throw with anticipation was actually a completed pass to OBJ. It was a simple out route that had the ball been there when OBJ made his break he turns it upfield and gets YAC, but because he was late with the ball, OBJ could only catch and run out of bounds
There is no question he is struggling. He doesn't trust the playcall OR the OL and he's too green to be the guy to overcome poor OL play and plays that we can't run effectively.
Let's be honest...it's 80% Baker, 20% everything else. He has slow eyes, has no idea what's going on after the snap, and is making the players around him so much worse than they are...to the point people are making up rumors about OBJ. If Dorsey and Co. were to pull a stunt like that, trade OBJ, I'd be crushed. It would mean they are dumb.
I don't know if it's been posted here but Jake Burns at the OBR did an article breaking down about dozen Baker plays from the last 5 weeks. Very believable and revealing. Many bad or negative plays show protection is fine and guys were wide open. Mayfield's eyes are slow. He discusses what's different than last year. He starts with Mayfield being more calm last year even with pressure. While he still had slow eyes his calmness eventually let him get to more than his first read. But because he's become so skittish, the lack of calmness makes the game appear much faster than it is to him and he ends up panicking.
Probably one of the best football articles I've ever read...other than it's a bit melodramatic in spots.
It had this weird effect on me. It was calming in the one sense that you have a really thorough explanation of what's going on. I always find it easier to digest your situation when you understand it better. But it also made me very concerned that this can't be fixed in season. Baker, first and foremost, has to stop panicking. Then he has to get his slow eyes to speed up. After reading the article this doesn't sound like something that is easy to overcome.
I am firmly in Mayfield's corner and want him to work through this, to get better, and be the franchise QB of the Browns. This is not a post to trash the kid like some do because they don't like him personally. This is to simply state what is actually happening.
burns writes good articles, rishuz. Obvious question is did baker’s eyes slow down since last year because he did not seem to miss open receivers last year??
Why didn’t we grab Minkah Fitzpatrick when Miami let him go?
Huh? They didn't let him go. They traded him for a first round pick. Also, where would he play? The one thing this team definitely has is depth in the secondary.
He often misses an out route like a progression he didn't get to. Many of his passes seem to be into multiple coverage. Passes are high or late or both much too often. But he can do it.
Make a QB busy. Give him immediate things to do, like roll out (he does it anyway). Our deep routes cannot be this deep it appears. I am very frustrated watching this train wreck of our offense waddle along. We need a tackle on BM's left. And maybe vary the play palette more.
It must be terrible to hate players on your own team...especially those where a pre-draft evaluation was so poor.
When the schedule softens up and he has success in this cluster of an O, I'm sure you'll be here to talk about the competition...while conveniently forgetting the competition to date.
This is typical of our conversations. I did not insult you. I did not mention your name. I didn't throw any shade at you. I have not once resorted to posting some of your comments where you have been trashing me about Baker.
Yet, you take a post where I post stats and make this debate about me. And then on another thread, you will talk about how I start fights by making fun of others.
I have tried this before and I will try again. I know you don't like me. I think most people get it by now. I don't like you, either. However, I do not follow you around and criticize your takes daily. I would be thrilled if you and I never had another discussion. Most posters don't enjoy this. So, how about we just ignore one another and tolerate our different opinions?
Maybe get a qb who can actually get all our weapons the ball?
I can't understand why the need to post this, this way. Same thing for the guy talking about trading Baker.
Baker isn't going anywhere. Not this year. Not next year.
Those who don't like him, might as well accept that.
It'd make more sense saying that we need our QB to start getting the ball to all his weapons.
That's the reality. Not get a new QB. Because, that simply won't happen. Baker is here this year and next. I predict far longer than that. But that's a minimum right there.
He's a number 1 pick. He had a great rookie year. No matter how bad this year goes, he will still be our starter next year. That's just the reality of the matter.
Even thinking about a different QB is pointless IMO
Why didn’t we grab Minkah Fitzpatrick when Miami let him go?
Huh? They didn't let him go. They traded him for a first round pick. Also, where would he play? The one thing this team definitely has is depth in the secondary.
There has been a lot of talk about trading for an OT on this board. I have said that I thought it would be too expensive to get an upgrade over the two that we have.
As many of you probably know, SF has lost both their starting offensive tackles. Shanny was asked about trading for one. Here is what he said:
Quote:
“Things got to be available,” Shanahan said, via NBCSportsBayArea.com. “You got to be able to make smart decisions. If there were a smart decision out there, we’d definitely look into it. It doesn’t seem like many are available right now.”
I am in favor of upgrading the OL, but I think it would be wise to wait until free agency and/or the draft.
Agreed. Why mortgage the future for a player that might be a stopgap or a little older then we would like. We have to go with what we have and hope they play better. Address the problem on the o-line next offseason in FA or the draft. Let's work on fixing the problems we have this year and get things right. Some posters on here felt this wouldn't be the year anyway because of all the changes. 2020 season would be the year we would be solid contenders.
There has been a lot of talk about trading for an OT on this board. I have said that I thought it would be too expensive to get an upgrade over the two that we have.
As many of you probably know, SF has lost both their starting offensive tackles. Shanny was asked about trading for one. Here is what he said:
Quote:
“Things got to be available,” Shanahan said, via NBCSportsBayArea.com. “You got to be able to make smart decisions. If there were a smart decision out there, we’d definitely look into it. It doesn’t seem like many are available right now.”
I am in favor of upgrading the OL, but I think it would be wise to wait until free agency and/or the draft.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm not advocating to run out and force a trade now. I just think that if a unique opportunity presents itself, we should be aggressive (but not overpay). I think what Pittsburgh did with Minkah was smart (first rounder and all). If a similar situation comes up with a tackle (unlikely as it may be) I would hope Dorsey would be on it.
The longer the Trent Williams saga continues, the more likely his acquisition price goes down. Especially now that Gruden is out, and they may be looking to conjure up extra draft ammo. If his price drops to a pick outside of the first round, I hope Dorsey would at least be in on that. With where we are now talent-wise, it makes more sense to give picks for proven talent. Trent Williams might be too old and broken down to even warrant a 2nd rounder, but his situation is the closest I have to an example of good talent in a unique situation to make him available.
Maybe get a qb who can actually get all our weapons the ball?
I can't understand why the need to post this, this way. Same thing for the guy talking about trading Baker.
Baker isn't going anywhere. Not this year. Not next year.
Those who don't like him, might as well accept that.
It'd make more sense saying that we need our QB to start getting the ball to all his weapons.
That's the reality. Not get a new QB. Because, that simply won't happen. Baker is here this year and next. I predict far longer than that. But that's a minimum right there.
He's a number 1 pick. He had a great rookie year. No matter how bad this year goes, he will still be our starter next year. That's just the reality of the matter.
Even thinking about a different QB is pointless IMO
Honestly,I don't think that if he keeps playing like this Dorsey is going to keep him up for much longer.
I rather lose Baker than Dorsey, by the way, hope we can pull our act together and hope we keep both.
I trust Dorsey, and will give him the time he needs to do his magic,no matter what the cost is. Hope Haslam thinks the same
If Baker continues to play like this maybe we should sit him down to give him a break and see what we have with Gilbert. Bigger QB with a stronger arm. I'm not saying give up on Baker but he may need to step back look at things and take a break.
I think it would be foolish with a capital "F" to not inquire about Trent Williams. Of course the price matters...but if he gave us 1.5 good years, it would be worth quite a bit to me.
Play this year and give the 2020 rookie LT someone to learn behind.
If Baker continues to play like this maybe we should sit him down to give him a break and see what we have with Gilbert. Bigger QB with a stronger arm. I'm not saying give up on Baker but he may need to step back look at things and take a break.
I don't see how that accomplishes a thing, at this point. Gilbert is going to be even further behind Mayfield in all the things that Baker is struggling with right now, and Mayfield isn't going to get better at the things he needs to get better at by sitting on the bench. Unless Baker's play REALLY falls off a cliff, or he slows down to the point that he's working on getting himself killed out there, we ride it out with him.
My only thought also was that Gilbert got dinged up and we need someone to take more scout team stuff
It’s wise to have a QB on the practice squad when you only have two QBs on the active roster. If one of the top two get hurt you have a third guy able to step in and know some stuff instead of coming in cold.
My only thought also was that Gilbert got dinged up and we need someone to take more scout team stuff
It’s wise to have a QB on the practice squad when you only have two QBs on the active roster. If one of the top two get hurt you have a third guy able to step in and know some stuff instead of coming in cold.
My only thought also was that Gilbert got dinged up and we need someone to take more scout team stuff
It’s wise to have a QB on the practice squad when you only have two QBs on the active roster. If one of the top two get hurt you have a third guy able to step in and know some stuff instead of coming in cold.
I agree, I just wonder what prompted it NOW
I believe an article mentioned that in his brief stint on an NFL roster, he was being looked at as a TE.
Baker was dinged early on this year. A part of me wonders if that's part of the reason why he's been off, and maybe why we've signed an "emergency type" practice squad QB.
Baker was dinged early on this year. A part of me wonders if that's part of the reason why he's been off, and maybe why we've signed an "emergency type" practice squad QB.
I saw on another board or social media or something that Baker got hurt against Tennessee (hand or wrist) and it’s affected him ever since
Thought occurs to me that BM's delivery is flawed due to injury, because his highball throws are pretty much constant, an unwelcome new normal. Maybe the new QB is actually insurance not for Mayfield, but for Gilbert. On PS for insurance and keep Gilbert fresh if BM can't right his own ship. Some pretty basic stuff needs to improve and it won't be some casual tweaks IMO; they will have to address some ongoing fails that can't be fixed with clever responses in a few snappy interviews. Speed the day that improvement occurs.
My only thought also was that Gilbert got dinged up and we need someone to take more scout team stuff
It’s wise to have a QB on the practice squad when you only have two QBs on the active roster. If one of the top two get hurt you have a third guy able to step in and know some stuff instead of coming in cold.
I agree, I just wonder what prompted it NOW
Teams have workouts all the time. He probably worked out and was worth a shot.
My only thought also was that Gilbert got dinged up and we need someone to take more scout team stuff
It’s wise to have a QB on the practice squad when you only have two QBs on the active roster. If one of the top two get hurt you have a third guy able to step in and know some stuff instead of coming in cold.
I agree, I just wonder what prompted it NOW
Somebody watched the Thursday night game and saw the piece on Julian Edelman and how he had been a QB and never played WR in his life until the got to the NFL and thought... Hmmm, we can do that.
Baker was dinged early on this year. A part of me wonders if that's part of the reason why he's been off, and maybe why we've signed an "emergency type" practice squad QB.
I saw on another board or social media or something that Baker got hurt against Tennessee (hand or wrist) and it’s affected him ever since
In a related story, Freddie ate a ton of Mexican food and had a severe case of indigestion which affected his play calling.
Baker was dinged early on this year. A part of me wonders if that's part of the reason why he's been off, and maybe why we've signed an "emergency type" practice squad QB.
I saw on another board or social media or something that Baker got hurt against Tennessee (hand or wrist) and it’s affected him ever since
I actually thought he was coming out of the game after that. Looked like he couldn't move his arm.
His probably best trait right now is he's tough and durable.
I don't think that "injury" is affecting his play.
I think Baker is proving to be very durable. He's very strong, as well. I've seen him take some shots to the legs and they don't knock him off his feet.
Nah, he might not be saying anything. He hurt his throwing wrist in one of the first few games and then we never heard a thing about it. That would explain the high balls and accuracy issues.
This NFL report is 9 pages long. I will just copy and paste the first page and also provide a link to the entire document. It's clear that NFL teams must list the status of injured players.
Quote:
The Personnel (Injury) Report Policy has been a cornerstone of public confidence in the NFL for many decades. The credibility of the NFL, teams, owners and team personnel requires full compliance with and uniform enforcement of the policy.
The intent is to provide full and complete information on player availability. It is NFL policy that information for dissemination to the public on all injured players be reported in a satisfactory manner by clubs to the league office, the opposing team, local and national media, and broadcast partners each game week of the regular season and postseason (including for the two Super Bowl teams between the Championship Games and Super Bowl).
The information must be credible, accurate, timely, and specific within the guidelines of the policy, which is of paramount importance in maintaining the integrity of the game.
A violation of the policy may result in Commissioner discipline, which may include a fine on the involved club, fines or suspensions of involved individuals, as well as the possible forfeiture of draft choices by the involved club.
Each Public Relations Director is responsible for ensuring that all required injury and practice/game participation in formation vs reported to the NFL Communications Department,and issued to the opposing team, local and national media, broadcast partners, etc., via the NFL Intranet site as provided here in below.
The Personnel (Injury) Report Policy is comprised of three sections:1)Practice Report2)Game Status Report3)In-Game Injury Report
Are you accusing the Browns of breaking league rules?
Wasn’t Baker on the injury report last week, or this week? Maybe even after week 1? I can’t remember when, but I’ve seen him on there early in the week
I don't think he was on the injury report this week. I just wasted time looking up the rule thing. How about you look up the injury reports?
Guys, this injury excuse is such a stretch. I get that folks will say "you hate Baker," but come on.........that isn't what is ailing him. Does anyone really not see what is happening out there?
I don't think he was on the injury report this week. I just wasted time looking up the rule thing. How about you look up the injury reports?
How about you just do what you do and post what you think and stop telling others what to do and to post and not post?
Quote:
Guys, this injury excuse is such a stretch. I get that folks will say "you hate Baker," but come on.........that isn't what is ailing him. Does anyone really not see what is happening out there?
The injury thing has not been presented as an excuse. It's an opinion/suggestion...not a personal attack. I believe that you have posted on this very message board that you hate Baker. So you can say you hate Baker but we can't say you hate Baker? Got it.
I think pretty-much everyone on this board sees "what is happening out there".
Don't believe Vers ever said he hates Baker ... I think he doesn't like the person 'Baker Mayfield' and all his brashness and actions from college ... the "worst" thing i have seen Vers say when talking about Baker, the Browns and the OSU/Flag incident was that OSU was 'his team' ... would be easy to read into that that the Browns are not as important to him as OSU ... but I took it as him defending his college team rather than dissing the Browns or hate on Baker. Only person I see flat out hating on Baker is KoB.
With all that said - I do see a consistent theme to question Baker and not always in a fair and balanced way. If it was fair and balanced there'd be the good stuff too.
Anyway .... with all that said, I'm getting on a plane to Cleveland in 1 hour 40 minutes and let's all root for some solid/better play calling and improved accuracy and speed of release from BM.
I see that a certain poster is trying to cause problems again.
Hey 4Life, I wasn't saying you to look up Baker's injury status in a mean way. I just didn't feel like looking it up because I just spent time looking up the rules about listing a player on the injury report.
I was not telling you what to do. It was a request so we could have a better understanding of the situation. In no way was I saying that in a negative manner.
Also, I do not hate Baker. I don't like him, but I don't "hate" him. Of course, there are some posters who have to make everything personal in a forum that is entitled Pure Football forum. I have even asked that poster that we stop speaking to one another because it clogs the board w/garbage.
It's a Browns internet message board...anyone who continually craps on a Browns player on this board is bound to face some backlash. Opinions are one thing, agenda posting is another...but continually bashing a Browns player on a Browns fan board? That garbage isn't going to go unattended-to.
Trying to paint anyone and everyone who tells it like it is as somehow being against the Browns is where the agenda is.
We've seen posters do it with HC's, GM's, players and almost everyone but the mascot.
People only spout crap like you do when they disagree with the take someone else is giving.
Blindly ignoring reality doesn't somehow make you a better fan.
If you actually read my posts you'd see that I have stated again and again that Baker is part of the problem. Silly little fact that is, eh? Sort of makes your entire post irrelevant.
When a poster jumps on something as ridiculous as the handshake that WAS...and then doesn't retract their spewed-venom...perhaps they should expect some backlash.
There is a dearth of quality OL all across the league. There has been much discussion on this very board - and elsewhere - that highlight the conclusion that fewer and fewer OL come into the NFL ready-to-go...particularly OTs...due in large part to spread offenses in college that don't get these OTs ready for an NFL offense.
That fact right there is why I stated above that we would be foolish with a capital "F" to not seriously pursue TW. I don't want to 'give up the farm'...however...this notion that we will land that elusive, 'ready' OT in the draft is much too risky given that this team is approaching its 'window'.
The Corbett 'whiff' is a perfect example of the risks with today's OL. Especially in conjunction with the decision to trade Zeitler due to the evaluation on Corbett that was completely wrong. Yes...a guy like Nelson comes along every-now-and-then, but why would we want to wait when we could get a very good OT right now?
I'm not talking about using two 1st Rd picks...or even one...due to TW being 31 instead of 25-26...but we would have to give up value to get him...and I think that could easily be worth it.
The Ravens and Steelers both made trades recently to improve their areas of weakness. The AFC north is quite "open" right now...as our window soon will be open.
I mean, yeah if we could get him for less than a 1st round pick I’d do it too ... problem is, Washington is said to be hard lined on getting a high value for him (higher than Minkah Fitzpatrick)
Well...OTs are much more 'valuable' than Ss...but Minkah is only 25-26...so there's some separation there.
I would probably be willing to trade a #1 for TW and take back a 4th or something like that...maybe we throw in one of our seven WRs. Maybe send them Hubbard or Robinson and get back more than a 4th or give up less than a #1. I dunno...just spitballing.
It is quite possible that the OL could have three new starters around the halfway point of the season...TW, Teller, Forbes. Two guys acquired via trade and one developing draft pick. That would push Robinson, Kush and Hubbard to depth roles.
I forgot about Forbes, so that’s someone else to look forward to. I think we’re going to see a shuffle of the OL as well, regardless of if we get TW or not
Behind the numbers: The line allowed just nine QB pressures and didn’t give up a sack for the first time this season. Bitonio bounced back from a poor game against the 49ers to post the team’s top pass-blocking grade (89.0) and didn’t allow a pressure for just the second time this season. Kush (85.1), Robinson (81.9) and Tretter (80.9) all topped pass-blocking grades of 80, another first this season. Hubbard struggled, earning a 50.9 pass-blocking grade with three pressures and two penalties. Bitonio was the only starter with a run-blocking grade over 50, which dragged down some grades. McCray and Teller combined for six snaps.
I would consider sending Antonio to the parking lot and bringing in Guiseppi.
lol I already forget about guiseppi ... Callaway hasn’t shown the ability to “understand” stuff IMO. He’s not a very nuanced player and seems to need help even lining up
I was watching - and not able to listen (thankfully) - to an ESPN2 spot yesterday and noticed they did a short piece on the Browns that highlighted Higgins. It got me thinking about the whole "talent infusion" narrative surrounding the team this year. I'll stick to the Offense for this post.
Did we really improve THAT much on Offense? Especially considering injuries to two holdover talents. Here's a look showing 2018/2019:
Baker/Baker Landry/Landry Perriman/OBJ Higgins/Some guy(s) Callaway/Callaway Chubb/Chubb Duke/Hilliard Njoku/RSJ...Fells/Harris...Charles/Pharoah Zeitler/Kush Remaining OL/Remaining OL Scheme-that-fit/Scheme-that-didn't fit
So here's what we've got. OBJ is much better than Perriman. Not because Perriman isn't 'good', but because OBJ is a top 5 guy in talent in the league. He has had some uncharacteristic drops and routes that have been disappointing. To date, the results of this particular 'talent-infusion' are mixed and certainly not living up to the off-season hype.
Higgins' most-common replacement until last week was Ratley. We all have seen the rapport between Higgins and Baker...and we've gotten 1/2 of one game of that this year. Now the replacement is Callaway...who can be maddeningly inconsistent...essentially the polar opposite of Higgins. There has been an injury-caused, 'talent-diffusion' here.
With Higgins' injury and OBJ's start, I'd say the overall production from this 'talent-infusion' is less than last year's.
Duke was/is an effective player. He brings a lot even if limited. I like Hilliard enough...but Duke was/is better. There is a drop in talent here.
Njoku has been out as long as Higgins. Njouku can't block and has sometimes-questionable hands, but he would be heads and shoulders above any other TE on the roster right now. Our best TE right now was a waiver-wire pickup...who I really like...but it is what it is. Harris has been a disappointment to his hype.
So...there was no talent-infusion in these two groups. A change-for-less and a serious injury has this as a production AND talent-diffusion.
Zeitler is a stud/Pro Bowler...Kush is a career backup. Talent-diffusion once again.
If OBJ was off to a better start and Higgins and Njoku weren't out after two quarters of play, we'd STILL have infused just OBJ for Perriman and diffused Duke for Hilliard along with Zeitler for Kush. Think about that for a minute in relation to the "talent-infusion" hype we've read since the OBJ trade.
The media loves to tear-down a team...they seem to be especially enjoying tearing down the Browns after being the only group that really hyped them up all off-season. There was/is optimism on these fan boards and within the team...but I sense there was virtually zero hype from those two groups but plenty of cautious optimism.
We did not (or have not yet) improve our talent and offensive weapons anywhere near as much as was hyped.
I still have to ask you about scheme. Do you really think we could have gotten away with repeating what we did last year?
I mean, Baker always rolling right under any type of pressure and only working the right side of the field? Because that's pretty much what we did the last half of the season last year.
It's my contention that coming into this season, every team in the NFL had it figured out. My evidence is that every time Baker rolled right this season, opposing teams had that covered. There was nobody open on that side of the field and there were defenders there to cover it.
They knew Bakers tendencies and what he did well last year. Their game plan was to cover that and force him to do things that would make him uncomfortable. For anyone watching, we all saw they did that.
It's my contention that the playbook had to be expanded. That we had to open it up at some point. When we did, there would be growing pains until Baker became comfortable doing more. It was going to happen sooner or later.
We could never have gotten away with repeating what we did last year. The NFL figured that out.
I mean, Baker always rolling right under any type of pressure and only working the right side of the field? Because that's pretty much what we did the last half of the season last year.
This is a false narrative. Baker threw to all parts of the field at all levels last year. We could argue over whether he was a one read QB or not, but to say Baker only threw to the right is patently false.
The rest of your post I agree with the gist somewhat. You should expect some evolution of the playbook/scheme as well as developing skills of the QB.
I think what we are seeing this year is they gave Baker too much too soon. They thought he was ready for calculus after one year of algebra but he needed to go to algebra II first.
Now they are left with two options...hope he gets it or adjust on the fly. Neither are ideal.
I think if you take another look I defined it as when he was under "any type of pressure". That was his tendency under that condition. Teams learned that if and when you can get a little pressure on him, that's his go to move.
If you can show me that wasn't his automatic reaction to pressure last year I'd love to see it. I'd be willing to bet that you would find when they got pressure on him, rolling and or throwing to his right covers a high percentage of those plays.
And maybe some of the other player's, too. The comment Freddie made about the Browns being a "group" and teams like Seattle and New England being "teams" really bothered me.
One one hand, it is a type of statement that could alienate his players. On the other hand, what if it is true? The repercussions for that would be immense.
I hate saying this because I love Myles, but he is always talking about being Defensive Player of the Year. I would rather say that he is only focused on winning the Super Bowl. And Myles is one of more level-headed, intelligent, and high-character guys.
What if we have a team w/way too many individuals?
I am not saying that as a fact, but I've begun to wonder due to the team's performance and some of the comments we hear.
And maybe some of the other player's, too. The comment Freddie made about the Browns being a "group" and teams like Seattle and New England being "teams" really bothered me.
One one hand, it is a type of statement that could alienate his players. On the other hand, what if it is true? The repercussions for that would be immense.
I hate saying this because I love Myles, but he is always talking about being Defensive Player of the Year. I would rather say that he is only focused on winning the Super Bowl. And Myles is one of more level-headed, intelligent, and high-character guys.
What if we have a team w/way too many individuals?
I am not saying that as a fact, but I've begun to wonder due to the team's performance and some of the comments we hear.
Its surely a possibility. And a risk when you bring in so many "outsiders". I say "outsiders" as in free agents and traded players. But I agree, with the amount of talent and big names we have now, that's a risk.
I can see the concern for Freddies comments as well - will the team push back against him. But I *think* (only my opinion) that he is hoping those comments will drive home with the team. I took it as a challenge to the team to step up and come together.
You very well could be right, or it could have been what I was thinking at first - we will only know as the season goes on. But I the thoughts did cross my mind when I listened to that press conference.
I don't think the Browns issues are due to lack of talent. Just my opinion.
No one has said that or even insinuated that. The Browns unquestionably have a ton of talent...with a great deal of that carrying over from last year.
My most recent point is about the hype of the new talent infusion. At this point in the season and in production, the talent hasn't been any better and might be a little less...while still being plentiful.
When non-Browns fans say "What's wrong with your Browns. They brought in all that new talent and aren't doing as well." Where do you start to respond? I think the perception out there is that we brought in "all these new weapons". And that isn't accurate.
OBJ hasn't had the stats...but football fans know and see the impact he has whether catching a ball or not. However, he's the only offensive "weapon" we brought in (until Hunt can play) and we've lost offensive weapons in Higgins, Njoku and Duke.
We've lost more offensive weapons than we've gained thus far. NOTE: I'm not stating this in defense of any player, coach or GM. I'm focused on the hype about bringing in "weapons" versus a look at the gameday-active roster.
I think we have to be real careful about reading too much into Freddie's comments. We have some new players, mostly new coaches and a lot of young talent. We shouldn't compare ourselves to teams that have long-tenured coaches and front offices that have had the same culture and systems for many years. We aren't there yet and still won't be there at season's end. JMO
And maybe some of the other player's, too. The comment Freddie made about the Browns being a "group" and teams like Seattle and New England being "teams" really bothered me.
One one hand, it is a type of statement that could alienate his players. On the other hand, what if it is true? The repercussions for that would be immense.
I hate saying this because I love Myles, but he is always talking about being Defensive Player of the Year. I would rather say that he is only focused on winning the Super Bowl. And Myles is one of more level-headed, intelligent, and high-character guys.
What if we have a team w/way too many individuals?
I am not saying that as a fact, but I've begun to wonder due to the team's performance and some of the comments we hear.
Add to that we've rolled over in 3 of the 5 games when faced with in game adversity and I think it's a legit concern. I don't mind Freddie pointing it out. If that type of remark doesn't motivate players and instead alienates them, then get some different players.
I keep going back to something Baker has said more than once..."we thought this was going to be easy"...I don't think the team knows how to respond to getting punched in the mouth. If they are too soft to respond positively to some criticism then we don't have the right people in the locker room.
I don't think the team knows how to respond to getting punched in the mouth. If they are too soft to respond positively to some criticism then we don't have the right people in the locker room.
I don't think the Browns issues are due to lack of talent. Just my opinion.
That's not an opinion. It's a fact.
The Browns issues are between the ears of the coach and QB.
The issues go far beyond that. That statement is an over simplification to blame coach and QB. Teams win as a team and lose as a team.
This team changed offensive and defensive schemes this past off season instead of staying consistent. That leads to players thinking instead of reacting. This team needs consistency.
However I disagree it's the team that is screwing up, at least from a percentage perspective. The three most important people in any organization is the owner, coach, and QB. We know the history of the owner so we are relying on 2 out of 3 with the coach and QB. They have the biggest impact on the game. We have a rookie coach who spends game days trying to make a point instead of trying to win a game. We have a QB who is going through a massive slump, has admitted he thought it was going to be easier, and came into the season a little full of himself.
Are the other guys making mistakes? Sure. But if our coach and QB can be better, the wins will come.
I don't think the team knows how to respond to getting punched in the mouth. If they are too soft to respond positively to some criticism then we don't have the right people in the locker room.
Who is our veteran leadership?
Intersting question. Bitonio, Landry, Schobert? Kirksey's injured. It would be nice if Vernon or Richardson contribute. Mitchell/Randall of the db's?
After beating the Jets, Myles Garrett was on the on-filed post game show. They were asking him a series of questions and one of them was "Who are the leaders on your team?"
He said "me." He then said Baker on offense. He paused for a few moments and then said Kirksey. After another beat or two, he named Vernon.
The folks that were interviewing Myles had odd expressions on their faces. It was pretty apparent that this team is lacking good leadership.
Personally, I think Landry should be the leader, but I have a feeling that was taken away from him.
After beating the Jets, Myles Garrett was on the on-filed post game show. They were asking him a series of questions and one of them was "Who are the leaders on your team?"
He said "me." He then said Baker on offense. He paused for a few moments and then said Kirksey. After another beat or two, he named Vernon.
The folks that were interviewing Myles had odd expressions on their faces. It was pretty apparent that this team is lacking good leadership.
Personally, I think Landry should be the leader, but I have a feeling that was taken away from him.
I remember that being awkward. It's actually on youtube since it was MNF... about the 1:30 mark.
Hard to tell if he was just trying to think of the "three" he was asked for or being complacent about leadership.
It has seemed to me that Jarvis has shied away from a leadership role. What's your theory?
He's a very introspective individual. Not very demonstrative.
I brought that interview up because I think this team is lacking leadership. It should be Landry and Kirksey in my opinion, but it is what it is on O and Kirksey is hurt. Someone mentioned Randall, but that dude is one of the bigger head cases in the league. Good player, but he should not be a leader. And I am not saying he is. I was wondering about Richardson. He has a strong personality.
I was thinking about this as well earlier in the season. Why aren't we hearing about Landry? Well, we were hearing about him all the time last year because of Hard Knocks, and now that's not in the Berea anymore.
Point is, who's to say that Landry isn't still leading... we're just not hearing about it?
Did you forget about all the references during TC about who the undisputed leader of this year's team is? It wasn't that long ago.
Perhaps, but I don't think so. I vaguely remember various talking heads mentioning that Baker (as the starting QB) is the leader, but I don't really put much into that without something solid to back it up.
I'm fine with Baker being A leader, but I can't see him being THE leader at this point. I also don't see Landry suddenly shying away from a leadership role from last season to this one. Especially with him being one of the few (or only) pass catchers that's moving the needle in games lately. My view is mostly my own opinion so, as always, take it for what it's worth. But it makes good sense to me.
The leadership hoodoo is just a way of explaining something that no one has an explanation for. If we win ten games in a row no one will be talking about who the leader is/isn't.
And making generic comments that are not applicable is something else altogether.
I don't think it is a stretch to say that this team lacks veteran leadership from players who have played on successful teams or even say our coaching staff is similar in that regard.
Browns OL Drew Forbes has been designated for return from injured reserve and returned to practice today. He suffered a knee injury in the team’s preseason finale against the Detroit Lions and was placed injured reserve on Sept. 2.
The Browns have 21 days to activate Forbes or he must remain on the injured reserve list for the remainder of the season. Upon activation, he would be eligible to return for the team’s Week 10 game against the Buffalo Bills.
Forbes, a rookie out of Southeast Missouri State, was drafted by the Browns in the sixth round (189th overall) of the 2019 NFL Draft. He started one of four preseason games for the club this year.
Allowing players to return from the IR is one of the smartest things the NFL has done in recent years. I would like to see it expanded to allow all players return after eight weeks and not just two guys.
Drew Forbes was moving up the depth chart before he got hurt so it’ll be interesting to see how the team uses him going forward. The spot he was challenging for was right guard but most don’t see that spot as a problem at this point. I wonder if Forbes will get a shot at one of the tackle spots.
Allowing players to return from the IR is one of the smartest things the NFL has done in recent years. I would like to see it expanded to allow all players return after eight weeks and not just two guys.
Drew Forbes was moving up the depth chart before he got hurt so it’ll be interesting to see how the team uses him going forward. The spot he was challenging for was right guard but most don’t see that spot as a problem at this point. I wonder if Forbes will get a shot at one of the tackle spots.
I agree it's great, the problem with making it UNLIMITED, is that some coaches (aka Bill Belichik) will use it to store 30+ guys and have a whole new completely fresh NFL team ready to go for the 2nd half of the season :-P
You know he would. There's gotta be at least 10 NFL rules specifically because he found ways to break the old ones.
The NFL needs a "disabled list" like baseball and a better-protected, more-flexible practice squad to use with that disabled list.
From what I'm gathering, Forbes is going to compete at RT and it's just a matter of time before Teller takes over at RG. They are both much more physical guys...it's getting colder...and Hunt will be back soon.
We have (5) DTs and (7) WRs with depth at CB and a physical DE we aren't bothering to use...somehow (Avery)...not to mention a STUD RB who we may not even get around to using (Hunt).
So...first off...NO!...I do not want to trade away our good players or good depth. But...if JD thinks we need OL or TE or DT...he's got some guys/room to deal with.
How does some of this depth make future draft picks a little less appealing when taken in consideration of what ails us right now? I'll be stunned if JD doesn't make a trade...not disappointed per se...but stunned.
The Cleveland Browns announced the signing of Porter Gustin to their practice squad, taking the place of Stephen Carlson, who was signed to the active roster before the game against the Denver Broncos. Gustin is rookie out of USC who initially signed with the New Orleans Saints as an undrafted free agent. He was an edge rusher for the Trojans, will be a defensive end for the Browns.
Athletically, Gustin has a pretty good profile, particularly when it comes to agility. At 6-4.5 255 at his Pro Day, Gustin was able to put up a 6.97 3-cone and 4.22 short shuttle. His explosion is pretty solid as well, jumping 10' in the broad jump and 36" vertical.
Gustin's collegiate career was riddled with injuries, only allowing him to play ten games in his final two seasons. His final season, despite only playing six games, Gustin had a team leading seven sacks and ten tackles for loss. His final season ended prematurely due to a broken ankle. The previous season, a torn meniscus and nagging toe injuries forced him to miss a total of ten games.
It’s amazing how fast people forget he was a major reason we won the Ravens game.
We have tons of talent on this team, obviously the coaches don’t know how to use it.
Congrats to Whitehead for finding a way out.
Now he can go be Poyer, Skrine, Ward, Gipson, etc the long list of Safeties Browns fans said suck that go on to play great for other teams.
I didn't notice him "sucking" until this week... some of his tackling efforts this week were just plain bad. then find out we had another safety out and Whitehead was playing with a broken hand...
Cox is a 6-3, 270 pounds and in his third NFL season out of Florida. Originally signed by #Panthers as an UFA in 2017, Cox has appeared in 19 career games, recorded 17 tackles & 1 fumble recovery.
Beat writers speculated the corresponding move from yesterday's Jefferson release would have been Forbes off of IR. Apparently not.
I won’t be surprised if Cox is waived after the Steeler game and we sign Forbes then. Maybe we’re anticipating more of a rotation since Vernon’s injury
Beat writers speculated the corresponding move from yesterday's Jefferson release would have been Forbes off of IR. Apparently not.
I won’t be surprised if Cox is waived after the Steeler game and we sign Forbes then. Maybe we’re anticipating more of a rotation since Vernon’s injury
The first thing I thought was that Vernon is maybe expected to be out a little while longer.
Beat writers speculated the corresponding move from yesterday's Jefferson release would have been Forbes off of IR. Apparently not.
I won’t be surprised if Cox is waived after the Steeler game and we sign Forbes then. Maybe we’re anticipating more of a rotation since Vernon’s injury
I read something that suggested Forbes needed to be taken off IR by today. Maybe I misread.
Beat writers speculated the corresponding move from yesterday's Jefferson release would have been Forbes off of IR. Apparently not.
I won’t be surprised if Cox is waived after the Steeler game and we sign Forbes then. Maybe we’re anticipating more of a rotation since Vernon’s injury
The first thing I thought was that Vernon is maybe expected to be out a little while longer.
My first thought was we wanted him for game prep in the role of Bud Dupree or something. It would be weird to me to sign a nobody with little experience off the street for the purpose of having him fill a void left by a starter.
Beat writers speculated the corresponding move from yesterday's Jefferson release would have been Forbes off of IR. Apparently not.
I won’t be surprised if Cox is waived after the Steeler game and we sign Forbes then. Maybe we’re anticipating more of a rotation since Vernon’s injury
I read something that suggested Forbes needed to be taken off IR by today. Maybe I misread.
He has to be activated within 21 days of the day he started practicing.
Beat writers speculated the corresponding move from yesterday's Jefferson release would have been Forbes off of IR. Apparently not.
I won’t be surprised if Cox is waived after the Steeler game and we sign Forbes then. Maybe we’re anticipating more of a rotation since Vernon’s injury
The first thing I thought was that Vernon is maybe expected to be out a little while longer.
My first thought as well. Vernon may miss some more time.
I don't think he has been moved to the active roster. I really don't know. All I know is he returned to practice.
I believe that we have 2 weeks to activate him.
I think we HAD those 2 weeks...once they are cleared to practice there is a window to activate to the 53 or IR. I think we have to make that move today by 4. Maybe we get more time due to the Thursday night game?
Getting Drew Forbes back is interesting, he had just started practicing with the first team when he got hurt. I wouldn’t be surprised if he unseats Hubbard at some point.
Getting Drew Forbes back is interesting, he had just started practicing with the first team when he got hurt. I wouldn’t be surprised if he unseats Hubbard at some point.
Lets hope. Thats not saying much, as Hubbard is hot garbage. But i am optimistic about Forbes. I have heard really good things about him.
I have no idea where he was playing or may play going forward, but I'm all in favor of anything he can bring to the table that helps this OLine improve!
I have no idea where he was playing or may play going forward, but I'm all in favor of anything he can bring to the table that helps this OLine improve!
I think right tackle was his position in college at Southeast Missouri State.
With Garret likely out for a bit and Vernon dinged-up at best, I wonder what Wilks will do with his 4-2. Who plays the big safety role that Burnett was playing - and sometimes Whitehead?
I noticed Takitaki on the field the last two weeks and Wilson flashed yesterday and Shobert was a stud. With backups at DE and maybe without Larry O for a game, will Wilks file away the 4-2 for swhile until we get some guys back? Not to mention this:
Burnett finally has a noticeable game and now may be out for the year. If Randall gets a game suspension (which would be BS) we are going to have a problem at S. I wonder if Carrie or Mitchell will play some S?
Yeah, we’re going to have some holes to fill now ... Vernon/Garrett out ... no safeties to speak of either
Randall will be back. We need to Eric Murray to get back ASAP.
Let’s hope Randall will be ... there’s more punishment forthcoming from the NFL
I read that as saying there'd be more punishment possible related to the end of the game incident. Randall's was different.
As an aside, I think the Randall hit was more deserving of punishment than Garrett. The hit was reminiscent of the Burfict hit on AB. Dude was bleeding from the ear and was practically carried off the field, into the tent, and then to the tunnel.
Getting Drew Forbes back is interesting, he had just started practicing with the first team when he got hurt. I wouldn’t be surprised if he unseats Hubbard at some point.
I sure as hell hope so, Hubbard is not that good, for one thing, and Drew has my last name, so I'm really rooting for him. lmao
Actually, I really had a good feeling the short time he was playing, he looked like he can hold his own.
Speed the day! If we need to have the offense carry the game to win it with Garrett gone, we can't have the same lame scoring and missed kicks. W looked better last week, but not imposing. Our offensive line play is occasionally acceptable.
Just wasted a few minutes looking at free agents at DE and S...yikes.
M Wilkerson N Orchard
D Kindred G Iloka
Maybe I'll waste more time tomorrow looking at practice squads.
My practice squad scouting didn't show much better.
Both Dallas and Detroit have DEs on their PS that look like they were bubble guys at the 53 cut down.
FS Adrian Colbert Seahawks 6' 2", 210 4.38 40 time
SS Obi Melifonwu Patriots -Drafted by the Raiders #56 overall and never saw a snap. Belechick captured the 6' 4" 232 lb tackling machine and hid him on the practice squad to groom.
DE Jeff Holland Chargers Pure speed rusher. Undersized and a liability in the run game. I'd play him on 3rd downs only.
All these guys would be lottery tickets, but the best odds that I see.
Another guy to look at for DE is Corbin Kaufusi on the Jets practice squad. His older brother Bronson is also on the Jets PS. He is a 6'10" 275 lb ex basketball player that ran a 4.87 40 and did 25 reps in the bench press. He was also drafted in the XFL.
Again, lottery ticket, but looking for high ceilings here.
No new on who will replace him on the roster. My guess is that it is David Njoku. I believe Kitchens said he is getting tested physically on Wednesday.
This injury might be a career ender for Morgan Burnett. He will be 31 in January and this is at least a one year injury. We can cut him and save $2.175M against the cap, I'd expect that we do that. It's hard to see another team giving him a chance coming off this injury midseason. Tough break.
No new on who will replace him on the roster. My guess is that it is David Njoku. I believe Kitchens said he is getting tested physically on Wednesday.
This injury might be a career ender for Morgan Burnett. He will be 31 in January and this is at least a one year injury. We can cut him and save $2.175M against the cap, I'd expect that we do that. It's hard to see another team giving him a chance coming off this injury midseason. Tough break.
Tough break, he was pkaying well.
If Murray can't make the game, we will be down to three Safeties.
No new on who will replace him on the roster. My guess is that it is David Njoku. I believe Kitchens said he is getting tested physically on Wednesday.
This injury might be a career ender for Morgan Burnett. He will be 31 in January and this is at least a one year injury. We can cut him and save $2.175M against the cap, I'd expect that we do that. It's hard to see another team giving him a chance coming off this injury midseason. Tough break.
Tough break, he was pkaying well.
If Murray can't make the game, we will be down to three Safeties.
Juston Burris has played surprisingly well, especially when you consider that we cut him, then picked him up and cut him six days later, and then we brought him back. He and Randall are fine together. The problem is that we play a ton of big nickel, which means Sheldrick Redwine is on the field a ton (when he's been inactive most of the year) or we bring an extra corner onto the field (the most likely outcome) or we play three linebackers (Sione Takitaki has been playing a bit more). I'm hoping we see a bit of Takitaki in pass rushing situations as a way to make up for the loss of Myles Garrett (with Joe Schobert and/or Takitaki used as pass rushers).
No new on who will replace him on the roster. My guess is that it is David Njoku. I believe Kitchens said he is getting tested physically on Wednesday.
This injury might be a career ender for Morgan Burnett. He will be 31 in January and this is at least a one year injury. We can cut him and save $2.175M against the cap, I'd expect that we do that. It's hard to see another team giving him a chance coming off this injury midseason. Tough break.
Tough break, he was pkaying well.
If Murray can't make the game, we will be down to three Safeties.
Juston Burris has played surprisingly well, especially when you consider that we cut him, then picked him up and cut him six days later, and then we brought him back. He and Randall are fine together. The problem is that we play a ton of big nickel, which means Sheldrick Redwine is on the field a ton (when he's been inactive most of the year) or we bring an extra corner onto the field (the most likely outcome) or we play three linebackers (Sione Takitaki has been playing a bit more). I'm hoping we see a bit of Takitaki in pass rushing situations as a way to make up for the loss of Myles Garrett (with Joe Schobert and/or Takitaki used as pass rushers).
I could be wrong, but I thought Burris has looked better than Murray...But we could use any "body" as it is right now.
What scares me most about Redwine is he is one the least disciplined players I've watched in college...hopefully he is a fast learner, however I have my doubts.
I heard we had Tank Carridine in for a visit...I remember when he came out of school, but he never really amounted to much in the pros....Remember how stocked that 49ers team was back then? (forget the year but I think 2012 or 2013) Man they were 2-3 deep at nearly every position.
No new on who will replace him on the roster. My guess is that it is David Njoku. I believe Kitchens said he is getting tested physically on Wednesday.
This injury might be a career ender for Morgan Burnett. He will be 31 in January and this is at least a one year injury. We can cut him and save $2.175M against the cap, I'd expect that we do that. It's hard to see another team giving him a chance coming off this injury midseason. Tough break.
Tough break, he was pkaying well.
If Murray can't make the game, we will be down to three Safeties.
Juston Burris has played surprisingly well, especially when you consider that we cut him, then picked him up and cut him six days later, and then we brought him back. He and Randall are fine together. The problem is that we play a ton of big nickel, which means Sheldrick Redwine is on the field a ton (when he's been inactive most of the year) or we bring an extra corner onto the field (the most likely outcome) or we play three linebackers (Sione Takitaki has been playing a bit more). I'm hoping we see a bit of Takitaki in pass rushing situations as a way to make up for the loss of Myles Garrett (with Joe Schobert and/or Takitaki used as pass rushers).
No new on who will replace him on the roster. My guess is that it is David Njoku. I believe Kitchens said he is getting tested physically on Wednesday.
This injury might be a career ender for Morgan Burnett. He will be 31 in January and this is at least a one year injury. We can cut him and save $2.175M against the cap, I'd expect that we do that. It's hard to see another team giving him a chance coming off this injury midseason. Tough break.
Tough break, he was pkaying well.
If Murray can't make the game, we will be down to three Safeties.
Juston Burris has played surprisingly well, especially when you consider that we cut him, then picked him up and cut him six days later, and then we brought him back. He and Randall are fine together. The problem is that we play a ton of big nickel, which means Sheldrick Redwine is on the field a ton (when he's been inactive most of the year) or we bring an extra corner onto the field (the most likely outcome) or we play three linebackers (Sione Takitaki has been playing a bit more). I'm hoping we see a bit of Takitaki in pass rushing situations as a way to make up for the loss of Myles Garrett (with Joe Schobert and/or Takitaki used as pass rushers).
(Four parentheticals!)
I wouldn't mind seeing more 3 LB set myself.
Only if one of the linebackers is a pass rusher.
This will be a great game for Avery to bring some pass rush. Oh wait...nevermind.
I think its rather obvious. Stephen Carlson will be waived and then put on our Practice squad.
Also we have a roster spot for the suspended Garrett.
jmho
We currently have three open roster spots. One from Morgan Burnett getting IRed, one from Myles Garrett's suspension, and one from Larry Ogunjobi's suspension (which might not hold up).
The Cleveland Browns have elevated S J.T. Hassell to the active roster from the practice squad and signed S A.J. Howard to the practice squad.
Hassell (5-11, 200) is a rookie out of Florida Tech and spent the first 11 weeks of the 2019 season as a member of the team’s practice squad. He was originally signed by the Browns as an undrafted free agent in May. A native of Titusville, Fla., Hassell played in all four of the Browns’ preseason games, registering 14 tackles and a team-leading three tackles on special teams.
Read about Hassell's journey to the NFL
Howard is 5-10, 198 pounds and officially a first-year player. An undrafted free agent signing by the Arizona Cardinals in 2018, he spent the majority of last season as a member of the New York Giants’ and New England Patriots’ practice squads. This season, he spent time on the practice squads of the Baltimore Ravens and Philadelphia Eagles after spending the offseason and training camp with the Patriots. He’s a native of Hamilton, Ga. and attended Appalachian State.
No new on who will replace him on the roster. My guess is that it is David Njoku. I believe Kitchens said he is getting tested physically on Wednesday.
This injury might be a career ender for Morgan Burnett. He will be 31 in January and this is at least a one year injury. We can cut him and save $2.175M against the cap, I'd expect that we do that. It's hard to see another team giving him a chance coming off this injury midseason. Tough break.
Tough break, he was pkaying well.
If Murray can't make the game, we will be down to three Safeties.
That's why he got hurt.
Anytime a Browns player has a breakout they are gone.
I listened to FK’s press conference and he intimated that Hodge has found his niche on STs and as a backup WR ... I liked how he impacted the game Thursday
Garret shouldn't be suspended at all, just fined BIG TIME (Imtalking 3.5 mil or so) and be done with. The media and everyone else has blown this thing way out of proprtion. Everyone is talking about "had he done this it would be worse" or "He is lucky he only hit him this way" etc....they are wanting punishment doled based on what "could have happened" not "what actually happened"
Fact is this case needs to be looked based soley on FACTS
FACTS:
1. NO ONE was hurt because of Garret helmet swing 2. Rudolph took the last snap of the game no problem. 3. Rudolph was obviously examined by Steelers DR after the game and was A OK
This whole thing is absurd. If he had actually hurt Rudolph i'd be all about these crazy suspensions, but he didn't. He didn't hurt Rudolph. What Garret did is not worthy of a suspension.
Should a person spend time in jail because they ran a stop sign, and got into a fender bender with someone else and crushed each others cars yet no one was hurt? Should that person get the same sentence someone who hurt or killed someone should get?
this is nonsense! No one was hurt in the whole Garret affair, and No one should give a damn about would, could, shoulda, because would, could, shoulda, NEVER happened. You can't dole out punishments based on "what ifs" it needs to be based on FACTS
the most i'd accept is a 2 game suspension, the same thing Smith got, anymore and Garret needs to lawyer up and sue the NFL this is absolutely ridiclious, the media shouldn't be the ones deciding on punishments, our courts don't let the media influence and decide everything.
Just fines and move on allready this is nonsense. No one was hurt, had he hurt someone, sure, but the fact remians no one was hurt and for that reason, it should be fines and move on.
Desperate for healthy and available bodies along the defensive line for Week 12, the Cleveland Browns promoted two defenders from the practice squad on Friday. Tackle Brandin Bryant and EDGE Porter Gustin are now on the active 53-man roster.
They fill roster spots vacant due to the suspensions of Myles Garrett and Larry Ogunjobi. With EDGE Olivier Vernon also ruled out with his ongoing knee injury, the Browns are missing three of the four regular starters on the defensive line.
Bryant has been with the practice squad all season. He has previous experience with a handful of NFL teams as well as in the CFL. Gustin was signed to the practice squad following the trade of Genard Avery to the Philadelphia Eagles. He’s an undrafted rookie from USC who has primarily played outside linebacker in his career.
If only Myles had informed us that he was going to get suspended the same week Vernon would be injured
Life happens. Avery was getting sidelined here. It took the losses of both Garrett and Vernon to get us to where we'd need him; his value at the time was greater in a trade and it was the right move.
It'll be interesting to see what they do with the PS over the next several days. Larry O comes back next week and probably Njoku as well.
I'm afraid the PS call-up of two DL means Vernon may be done for the year. It would be odd to bring up two DL one week and cut one of them the next week (when Larry returns). Not to mention that one or two of those guys may be inactive Sunday. Hence my comment about watching the PS. If they fill it up, it signals that Vernon is done for the year...or quite a while longer at least. If they leave PS spots open, they'll likely plan to cut one of those two guys and get them signed back to the PS once Vernon returns to action...or a guy like D'Earnest J is on a very big numbers bubble.
We have ten DLs counting Larry. We have five TEs counting Njoku. I could see Pharoah slide back to PS after Njoku returns. But cutting a recent PS call-up for just one week would be odd...as would carrying 10 DL on the 53.
I think it just means that we need two bodies for this week. As soon as Larry comes back, one gets released and possibly signed back to the practice squad. When Vernon comes back, the same happens to the other one.
Sincere question... honestly, not trying to argue.
What was Avery's position? And I know the whole "you find the scheme to put your talent on the field" argument. Let's ignore that, for now.
Avery was a LB, right? He's not a DE (right?).
To my understanding, he was viewed as a DE and was behind the other DEs on the depth chart. I like C Smith well-enough and C Thomas has come on strong recently. However, I think Avery was/is much more dynamic than C Smith and with Vernon's recent-history injury woes, Avery was worth much more than a 4th Rd pick in the draft-after-next. JMO.
There is a reasonable argument that he was viewed as a LB and not a fit for our 4-2. My counter to that is the 'ole "you can't have too many edge rushers".
In the end, no one could foresee MG getting suspended even if one COULD foresee Vernon being sidelined. So it's not like to was a completely stupid move. However, the guy made a noticeable impact last year and is an edge rusher. We have lots of guys we could have cut to "make room" who are nowhere near the dynamic that Avery is/was. JMO again.
I think it just means that we need two bodies for this week. As soon as Larry comes back, one gets released and possibly signed back to the practice squad. When Vernon comes back, the same happens to the other one.
Could be...but while we need two bodies, I won't be surprised if at least one is inactive Sunday. We will have (8) healthy DLs Sunday morning...which is a lot but certainly isn't outrageous for the 46 gameday spots.
If they leave a hole in the PS roster, they'll be cutting one - or - both and getting them back to the PS. If they fill-up the PS, these guys are going to be here for awhile.
I think it just means that we need two bodies for this week. As soon as Larry comes back, one gets released and possibly signed back to the practice squad. When Vernon comes back, the same happens to the other one.
Isn't there a time limit for that type of transactions.
Desperate for healthy and available bodies along the defensive line for Week 12, the Cleveland Browns promoted two defenders from the practice squad on Friday. Tackle Brandin Bryant and EDGE Porter Gustin are now on the active 53-man roster.
Diyyaaanng Whatever happened to Ogbah and Nassib? Whatever happened to Nassib and Ogbay< (rherorical-I know what happened)
Whatever happened to Coley and Genard Avery, Danggg the cupboard looks bare.
We got Lucy'd Lucy'd is when Browns fans have to put up with assets being taken away needlessly,
These kind of things don't happen to every team, things like Josh Gordon's suspension after the 2011-er whatever year, Things like Kellon Winslow Jr missing his entire rookie year, or Edwards? missing time for practicing without shoes or Kellon Winslow Jr missing his entire 2nd season because of some onside kick injury or some "other" player missing time for a motorcycle wreck, or things like some player's involvement in a drunk driving incident on a bridge causing missed time,
or things like telling us some other Free.Safety was just as good as Tashaun Gipson, or a dozen other similar cases,
Lucy, (the little character from the peanuts gang), pulls the football out of position right as Charlie Brown trys to kick it.
Things like, current guy suspended indefinetly, what does that mean? We ain't gonna watch him play anymore,
These kind of things don't happen to every team, at least not as often.
Us Fans are Charlie Brown rearing up to kick that ball. I don't know Who Lucy is, but we got Lucy'd
There ain't no reason we don't have depth on this defensive line except they got rid of it.
The Cleveland Browns announced the signing of wide receiver J'Mon Moore to the team's practice squad, Monday. A Green Bay Packers fourth round pick in 2018, Moore spent one season with the Packers, catching two passes for passes for 15 yards in 12 games. The Browns signed both Brandin Bryant and Porter Gustin to the active roster on Friday ahead of the game against the Miami Dolphins, so the practice squad had space to add Moore.
Moore was one of the lone bright spots on some mediocre Missouri teams, posting solid production for the three seasons. He also put up good athletic testing numbers, giving him a solid prospect profile overall.
The Packers added a ton of competition at wide receiver over the past couple of years through the draft and Moore was beaten out, but he is a good prospect o add to the practice squad in case he's able to get it going. He's got good size for the position at measuring in near 6'3" and over 200 pounds.
The Browns are currently hoping to find additional contributions from the wide receiver position beyond Odell Beckham and Jarvis Landry as their third leading receiver this season is Damion Ratley, who hasn't really played much in the past month.
I saw Higgins wide open a few times and don't think he ever got a target. I don't understand this at all. I personally would rather Baker throw it to him than one hand diva dropsies OBJ. I mean I like OBJ but he hasn't really impressed me that much on the field. I know Higgins will catch the ball.
I saw Higgins wide open a few times and don't think he ever got a target. I don't understand this at all. I personally would rather Baker throw it to him than one hand diva dropsies OBJ. I mean I like OBJ but he hasn't really impressed me that much on the field. I know Higgins will catch the ball.
He had one target in the left side of the end zone where Baker didn't lead him quite enough and it got deflected.
At least one of the times he was open resulted in the TD to OBJ.
It is what it is. We didn't run a whole lot of 3 WR sets. We had the lead pretty much the whole game and showed a good bit of "running formations." The threat of OBJ over the top opens up the running game more than Higgins, and Landry had the hot hand(s).
Don't get me wrong, during the game I was wondering why I wasn't seeing more of Higgins. It does kind of make sense looking back now and thinking it through, though.
How did he become a fan favorite if he only caught 2 passes the entire season? Did he have a good preseason or something?
That's my guess. How many WRs were fan favorites here, based on preseason?
yep, he was a preseason star and training camp favorite ... I have some family who love the Packers and they had a group of WRs who didn’t pan out that fans loved (Moore and Janis in particular)
J’Mon Moore was a Packer fan favorite for a while .. though I’m not sure where he fits here other than a LONG shot
All practice squad guys are long shots. That is what makes them interesting. We have hope that one of OUR practice squad players turns in to something and not some guy on another team.
I like the idea of a practice squad, but the NFL doesn't do it right. In baseball most good prospects spend 4-5 years in the minors before the team gives up on them or they finally make the majors.
I know the NFL isn't going to have a out and out farm system, but I would like to see practice squads expanded by maybe 5 players. I would also like to see where a team can keep a player on a practice squad as long as they want. I don't know what the rule is, but I am pretty sure a kid can't stay on a practice squad 5 years. Why not? If a team wants to keep them, let them keep paying him. I would also like to see teams being able to "protect" 2-3 practice squad players. You would have to pay them more, but if a team wanted to poach him, they would have to surrender maybe a 6th round pick or make a trade for the player, with no trade deadline on those players.
How did he become a fan favorite if he only caught 2 passes the entire season? Did he have a good preseason or something?
That's my guess. How many WRs were fan favorites here, based on preseason?
yep, he was a preseason star and training camp favorite ... I have some family who love the Packers and they had a group of WRs who didn’t pan out that fans loved (Moore and Janis in particular)
And then we even recycled Jeff Janis as a preseason fan favorite here...
He was a waiver wire pick up by Dorsey!
)
