I came across this article, and since there is so much hype about the Browns, I thought maybe it needed its own thread.
How the Cleveland Browns Are Bucking NFL Convention
In trying to reverse a generation’s worth of losing, the team is loading up on stars and embracing the hype.
ROBERT O'CONNELL 11:25 AM ET
The NFL’s most heavily hyped team hasn’t had a winning season in a dozen years. The Cleveland Browns last made the playoffs in 2002 and last won a playoff game in 1995, when their then–head coach Bill Belichick led them to a Wild Card victory over the New England Patriots. In 2016, Cleveland won just once, and in 2017 not at all. Now the Browns are being spoken of as “true contenders” with “boundless possibilities” on the cusp of a potential “Golden Era.” Sports Illustrated has tabbed Cleveland to win 11 games and its division. One fan tattooed his leg in preemptive commemoration of a championship.
There’s reason for all the optimism. Extended losing begets high draft picks, which beget talent. The Browns have two top-flight up-and-comers in the second-year quarterback Baker Mayfield and the third-year pass-rusher Myles Garrett, the former finishing second in Rookie of the Year balloting last season and the latter making his first All-Pro roster. After a rocky start to 2018 and subsequent shakeups—Mayfield stepped in for the injured incumbent starter Tyrod Taylor; the head coach Hue Jackson, who had presided over the 1–31 stretch the two years prior, was fired—Cleveland won five of its last seven games to finish with a 7–8–1 record. Then, in March, the Browns swung a trade with the New York Giants for Odell Beckham Jr., one of the most highly paid and least coverable wide receivers in the league.
Turnover is common in the NFL; of last year’s 12 playoff teams, eight hadn’t made it the year before. There is a growing sense that it’s finally Cleveland’s turn. But the anticipation surrounding the Browns, feverish even outside of northeast Ohio, suggests more than just the standard appetite for a long-awaited event. NFL convention holds that champions are born of hierarchy, careful planning, and individual sacrifice. These Browns were built quickly, and built on stars. They amount to a bet: that sheer talent, not institutional practice, can win the day. During Cleveland’s hot stretch to end the season last year, the former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams acted as interim head coach. But when it came time to select a full-time replacement in January, the Browns promoted Freddie Kitchens, who after Jackson’s firing had stepped into the role of offensive coordinator for the first time in his NFL career. Kitchens’s resume, made up mostly of stints as a little-known position coach, didn’t match those of fresh hires around the league. “It takes some guts to do what they did,” Kitchens himself said, adding, “I know that I am not a popular choice.”
Kitchens was popular, though, with his young quarterback, whose gutsy temperament and downfield accuracy jibed with Kitchens’s air-it-out attack. Over the eight games in which Kitchens called plays, Mayfield threw 19 touchdowns. “Baker Mayfield wanted Kitchens,” the NFL reporter Mike Florio said of the hire, “and Baker Mayfield gets Kitchens.” It was a rare amount of sway for a team to grant any player, much less one entering just his second professional season. The move was also in keeping with what has become an organizational trend of prioritizing the acquisition and development of skilled players over team doctrine. Beckham was available for a trade likely because of his history of missteps in New York, where he had left the field early, questioned his coach’s play-calling, and skirted an off-season drug scandal; the general manager John Dorsey jumped at the opportunity to add him. After the new coordinator Steve Wilks installed a liberating defensive system this off-season, Garrett anticipates career-high sack numbers. Dorsey puts his philosophy in straightforward terms: “You can’t have enough competitive football players.” The general manager has been accused of taking the ethos too far; in February, the Browns signed the running back Kareem Hunt, a former Pro Bowler who was dismissed from the Kansas City Chiefs last season after a hotel surveillance video showed him shoving and kicking a woman. The league has suspended Hunt for the first eight games of the upcoming season.
Offering second chances to perpetrators of violence is, controversially, a familiar move in the NFL. But in other ways, the Browns stand in contrast to league orthodoxy, old and new alike. The Patriots remain the standard-bearing franchise, and Belichick’s “do your job” mantra—wherein a player is useful to the degree that he enacts, not transcends, the game plan—has become the template for team-building. The 33-year-old head coach Sean McVay, whose Los Angeles Rams lost to the Patriots in last year’s Super Bowl, has an offensive approach so potent that analysts have wondered whether he can simply cycle through quarterbacks in perpetuity. The power afforded to both coaches, and to their imitators and offshoots across the league, reflects a distasteful reality of pro football. Games are grueling, and players’ careers contingent; the way to lasting success is by having the right person calling the shots.
Some observers have found precedent for Cleveland’s approach in the NBA, where the Philadelphia 76ers turned years of losing, via a couple of fortuitous draft picks, into a franchise-defining superstar tandem. Basketball is by nature a more star-dependent game, but Browns fans surely have similar hopes for the coming season. The players are dynamic enough to make best-case scenarios easy to imagine: Garrett dipping past blockers and dragging down quarterbacks, Mayfield reeling off four- and five-touchdown games, Beckham streaking away on slant routes and floating in midair to snare passes one-handed.
Football is more complicated than what makes the highlight reel, of course. The subtext of Belichick’s New England dynasty is that what fans love about the sport has little to do with winning; sound blocking and attentive defense, not improbable sideline catches, produce Super Bowls. Detractors might point out Cleveland’s weaknesses in the less flashy portions of the roster: a questionable offensive line, a lack of overall depth. A 2–3 start could quickly remove the shine from the decision to retain Kitchens, and the summer of optimism could come to seem like another instance of false hope for a fan base conditioned to it. Mayfield has noted a backlash building among the stodgier segments of the football community. “People want to see us lose,” he said last month, “just because the hype is so real.” This highlight-reel quality, though, accounts for the team’s broad appeal. They figure to be fantasy football made actual, all big names and big plays. Theirs is an optimistic approach in a city trained to expect the worst. “I plan on being there for the next five years and trying to bring as many championships there as possible,” Beckham said over the off-season, “turning into the new Patriots.” The Browns will have taken an uncommon route to get there. We want to hear what you think about this article. Submit a letter to the editor or write to letters@theatlantic.com.
My take on the hype, reposted from another thread: I think the hype is funny. It has become this perpetual motion machine that began the minute we drafted Baker and was fed nitro fuel by the signing of OBJ. We have some excellent talent. But the media handing them the division title is premature at best, ego feeding harmful at worst. Hopefully not. Hopefully, Freddie keeps them grounded. The bottom line is this: We'll have the answers to a lot of questions at the end of the day Sunday, and until then, everything else is inconsequential.
You can use just about anything to add fuel to the fire ... but how you direct it is important; you can either use it to heat your house, or burn down your house. IMO, we are not going to escape the hype or attention, whether we play well or poorly ... the media will be all over us.
It’s up to the leadership to make sure to use it in the most beneficial way possible
CATEGORIES: NFL Browns Berea, Ohio (92.3 The Fan) – It’s hard to accuse the Browns of spending too much time reading their press clippings or reveling in the hype.
Since March there have been plenty of them from G.Q. Magazine to ESPN to the cover of Sports Illustrated crowning them as the NFL’s next best team.
The Browns, with arguably the most talented collection of stars in three decades, are expected to exercise whatever demons remain from 20 years of ineptitude, turbulence and futility this season and end the NFL’s longest playoff drought.
But talk is cheap.
“I’m tired of hearing the talk. I’m ready to play football, period,” safety Damarious Randall said. “The fact that it’s finally here, I’m definitely stoked, happy about it and I hope the fans are ready to go because we’re just as excited as they are.”
How ready are the Browns to open the season Sunday against the Titans?
“I’d play them in the parking lot,” Baker Mayfield said when asked about getting to kick the season off at home. “I don’t really care.”
It’s felt like this offseason has moved at a snail’s pace, but finally the games that count start Sunday.
“The city is excited and that kinda extends to us as well,” Pro Bowl defensive end Myles Garrett said. “It’s not unheard. We hear all the noise, whether it’s good or bad.”
This year’s Browns are confident, not cocky.
“I am excited to play together and see what we have,” running back Nick Chubb, who set the franchise rookie rushing record with 996 yards last season said. “We had a long, hard, tough camp and banged up on each other a little bit. I am excited to go out there and play some guys in a real game and see how we put things together.”
The additions of Pro Bowlers Odell Beckham Jr., Olivier Vernon and Sheldon Richardson in March sparked five months of hype and heightened expectations with Mayfield, who set a rookie franchise record for passing yardage and an NFL rookie record for touchdown passes, entering his second season.
“Obviously, it has been an unreal offseason [of] being able to get excited,” Mayfield said.
For all the excitement, the reality is that the Browns haven’t done anything yet, and they know it.
“Nobody has done anything yet so I would say everybody is starting from the same square one,” Mayfield said. “I would say it is pretty hard to live up to any hype if you are listening to the outside. None of that really matters so I think we have a bunch of guys who have bought in to what is going on in this building and the standards we are setting. To us, that is all that matters.”
In 12 months, the bar for the Browns has gone from just finally win a game to how many can they pile up in 2019?
The Browns are projected by some to win the AFC North for the first time since the division was formed in 2002. Others say they're a wild card team, and there are the doubters who don't think they'll be any better than 8-8 or 9-7 meaning they'll be where they usually are every January – home.
But predictions aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
“At the end of the day, you’re going to have to [put] up or shut up,” Garrett said.
From day one, head coach Freddie Kitchens has kept his team focused in the moment. One day, one meeting, one practice, one game at a time.
It sounds cliché, and boring, but for Kitchens, it’s instrumental to success.
“I know if we do not do our work and get what we need to out of Wednesday’s practice, Sunday is not going to matter,” Kitchens said. “It is the same with [Thursday] and same with Friday. We are going to focus on today, same as me, same as our other coaches, same as our equipment guys and our trainers. Everybody is focused on today and doing their best job for the Browns and these fans today.”
The Rams, Seahawks and Patriots await this fall, but first come the Titans.
“We got guys that have been fighting together throughout camp,” Randall said. “We got guys that since OTAs have put together a plan and we actually believe in that plan and trust that plan. We finally get to go out and show the world what we’ve been doing the last two, three months.”
No pressure or anything, but the Browns haven’t won a Week 1 game since 2004. No head coach has won his debut since Bud Carson in 1989. That’s 12 coaches ago but Kitchens isn;t going to deviate from his own mantra and put any more emphasis on Sunday.
“We put the same emphasis on every game. We truly have been preaching since the spring that it is one day at a time,” Kitchens said. “We can’t do anything about Week 2. We have to do something about Week 1 so we do not mention any other games. This is the one we are focused on. We need to be because they are a good football team.”
I believe in talent first and foremost. At some point football is about matchups. You can either beat your guy or not.
Second you have to be well coached. That includes being taught right. Being prepared properly. And adjusting.
Quarterback. Very hard to win without high level play from the QB position.
Defense. You can win by scoring a lot of points. But you will win more consistently with a great defense. In today's game where the emphasis is on passing. Pressure on the quarterback is paramount. We have the front four talent to apply pressure.
Luck. Often defined as: when preparation meets opportunity. That is very true. However, in football you have to escape major injury. You can't lose key guys especially your quarterback.
So I am buying the hype. We have a very talented team. I believe Freddie will have them well prepared. I like what I have seen from the coaching staff.
Baker had a great rookie season. I see no reason why he will not improve upon what he has done. Experience and more tools around him.
I really like the mix of experience on the defense. Young talent in Myles, Ward, Larry O and experienced guys like Richardson, Vernon, Schobert, Kirksey, and Randall.
Luck? So far we are good. Who knows with that. Injury is random. Most teams are tested with injury. We can handle it in some units. Others could cause major damage.
I’m still on the fence bro ... i’ll let u know if i decide to let my hair down a little and start believing what the roster tells me ... *LOL* ...
LETS GOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo
I need you to be off the fence and stay extremely positive. It's the only thing that is calming my nerves.
No worries brother .... i grow more and more optimistic by the day ....
- we got through TC with no major injuries .... Hunt was the only one and that shouldn’t affect us one iota ...
- everything I’ve seen from .. and i MEAN EVERYTHING i’ve seen from Freddie and his staff is encouraging ... VERY ENCOURAGING ...
- our roster is loaded with talent .... LOADED ... best DL in football ... BAR NONE .. and the secondary may be right there ... CB’s are like our WR’s or RB’s room .. an EMBARRESMENT OF RICHES ..
This roster is LOADED WITH TALENT ... closest on O is KC but we bury them with talent on the D side of the ball ....
It may be time for the PARADISE ISLAND thread ... that may help calm some nerves ... at least while your reading it ... *LOL* ...
Barring injuries .... all i got to say for right now is best said by one Mr. Phil Collins ...
That’s one of the first things that Coach Kitchens ever said to us, when he took over the team. He said, “Listen, fellas — I’m just a big ol’ redneck from Alabama. Nobody ever figured I’d be here today as an NFL Head Coach. Nobody. I’m not supposed to be here. But you know what? I’m here.”
When people ask me what’s different about the Browns this year, what’s different about this city, and this football program — those words from Coach always come to my mind.
That mentality that Coach Kitchens brings….. I think we’ve all adopted it. It’s just who we are now, you know what I mean? We have a lot of players here who, in one way or another, they’ve been underdogs their whole career. Players who got to the league, or got to this franchise, and all they’ve known since then is losing. And our fans are the same way: We have these amazing fans — but a lot of them, they’ve never watched a Browns playoff game in their lives.
And I think in other years, maybe, that history has made people feel like there could never be a winner here. In other years, I feel like people would just be saying, you know, The Browns? Nah, they’re not going to win — because they never win. They’re not SUPPOSED to win.
The Browns aren’t supposed to be here.
And it just feels like starting last year, and into this summer, and now as we’re getting ready for Week 1 of this new season….. all of a sudden it’s like we took that saying and we flipped it. We’ve gone and taken what a Cleveland Browns team is “supposed” to do, in people’s minds, and we’ve changed that from this curse into this gift. Into an opportunity.
And that’s what our team has always been about, to me, for as long as I’ve been here.
Opportunity.
I saw it even when we went 0–16, in my rookie year. A lot of locker rooms, they go on a losing streak like that, and you’ll see it tear them apart. You’ll see a lot of giving up. You’ll see a lot of hopelessness. But our room, man, it just wasn’t like that at all. You’d see guys talking about a 50-50 ball they could have gotten, but they didn’t, and how can they fix that. You’d see guys talking about how many of our losses were by one score or less, and how we’re right there in these games. And to me that says a lot. You had this group of players that was going 0–16, and getting laughed at by the sports world. But in our locker room? It’s like those weren’t even 16 losses to us. They were just 16 missed opportunities.
Kevin Jairaj/USA TODAY Sports And if you want to know why Baker clicked so fast with this team last year, I think that’s your answer there too.
Most people, they probably think that Baker’s “welcome to the team” game came in one of those early comeback wins he led us to. But it wasn’t one of those. Actually, it wasn’t even a win.
It was Week 13 against the Texans. We were 4–6–1. They were 8–3, on an eight-game winning streak. Huge game for us. Needed a win to stay in the playoff race.
And they came out and they just punched us in the mouth. Baker threw three picks in the first half, I think. We all played terrible. And we ended up down 23–0.
But then at halftime of that game….. I remember, I watched Baker closely. Wanted to see what he was about, you know — in a real moment of adversity. And here’s what I saw: He didn’t get mad. He didn’t get frustrated. He wasn’t yelling at himself, or trying to blame other guys, or making some big kind of scene. At the same time, though, he also wasn’t faking it. He wasn’t on some fake positive vibe. Nah.
He just….. didn’t say a word.
That’s right. Baker didn’t say one word, that whole halftime. He just kept to himself, minded his own business, and got ready to go back out there. And it’s hard to explain how that works — you really have to know football, and know this team. But just by Baker not saying a word? It was almost like he was refusing to acknowledge that that half had even happened. Like he had the power to just….. reject it or something. It was wild. And whatever it was — coming out for the second half, he had this team FIRED. UP.
Baker went for like 350 yards in that second half, we scored a couple of touchdowns, plus we kept them out of the end zone on D….. and it wasn’t nearly enough. We lost — bad. 29–13. But that was one of those losses where, even in the moment, you could see a silver lining. Because guys came away from it knowing Baker was for real. They came away from it knowing we had a quarterback.
And since then….. I guess things have been a little crazy.
We won three in a row off of that Texans game. Almost reached the playoffs. Made strong moves all spring and summer. Traded for Odell. Our offense is getting more and more experience in Coach’s system. Our younger vets like myself are a year older, smarter, better. The city is rocking. It’s an exciting time for this organization.
And it’s shaping up to be one of those special seasons.
But before any of that gets started, you know, I really just wanted to write this down, and say a quick thank you to Cleveland, and Browns fans everywhere. I know it hasn’t always been easy. I know there’s been 0–16, and 1–15, and some tough years on top of that. But y’all have stuck with us the entire way. Y’all are THE best fans in the whole NFL. And whatever happens from now….. we’re going to take it one game at a time, together.
Because we’re the Cleveland Browns — and we’re not supposed to be here.
It felt as though the Cleveland Browns roster was deep enough that they would lose several players who they waived but that proved not to be the case
The roster of the Cleveland Browns was supposed to be packed full of talent, but the rest of the NFL chose to ignore most of the Browns available from waivers this week. Many analysts and fans, including this one, expected several Browns to be picked up from waivers.
That is, the expectation was that the Browns had more good players than roster spots, and so upwards of 60 players should make an NFL opening day roster, either for the Browns or as a waiver wire pickup for another team.
The opposite occurred, as only 47 players from summer camp made it to the Browns 53 player roster. Among the players cut or waived, only three were chosen for active rosters elsewhere in the league — four, if you count Duke Johnson, who was traded earlier in the summer to Houston for a draft pick.
Overall, only 51 players from the 90 player summer roster made it to an NFL opening somewhere in the league. That comes as a surprise.
Among those are four players who wound up on other teams.
Quarterback David Blough was worth an exchange of seventh-round picks to allow the Browns to move up in the seventh round. of the 2020 draft. So Detroit at least believed that he is good enough to justify a roster spot.
Tight end Seth DeValve was picked up from the Browns waiver wire by a new team (Jacksonville Jaguars).
Punter Britton Colquitt was cut rather than waived because of his veteran status. He has signed with the Minnesota Vikings. DPD does not know yet if his salary was discounted from the $2.7 million that the Browns had contracted for.
Two players who were cut made practice squad rosters for other teams (Trevon Coley with the Ravens and Brian Price with the Colts).
Your humble correspondent was among the group of writers and sportscasters who told you that the Browns were very deep this year and that, for example, the wideouts looked great with players like Jaelen Strong, Derrick Willies, and Damon Sheehy-Guiseppi.
However, no NFL team wanted any of these players for their 53 player roster. Willies found his way back to the Browns’ practice squad, but the other two players are still available to any team that wants them.
On defense, many analysts believed that there was a tough numbers game at linebacker, where the Browns could only afford to carry six players based on the expectation that they will use two-linebacker formations extensively this year. They had already given guaranteed money to six players (actually seven counting the $450,000 bonus charged to the 2019 cap for Ray-Ray Armstrong).
Yet Armstrong and Willie Harvey, though thought to be very deserving of being on an NFL roster, both cleared waivers. Harvey was signed to the Browns practice squad. Meanwhile, the Browns signed underachieving ex-Bengal linebacker Malik Jefferson rather than going with Harvey or Armstrong as the seventh linebacker.
Ditto for defensive linemen Carl Davis and Brian Price; cornerback Lenzy Pipkins; offensive lineman Bryan Witzmann; and kicker Greg Joseph.
They may get picked up later in the season, as rosters thin out due to injuries and attrition, but they were not thought of highly enough to make an NFL team’s opening day 53-player roster.
The Browns filled their 53 player roster with six players taken from other teams in the last few days. Three came by trade, at a total cost of four draft picks — guard Wyatt Teller, guard Justin McCray, and wide receiver Taywan Taylor. Three more were claimed from the waiver wire — linebacker Malik Jefferson, tight end Ricky Seals-Jones and receiver KhaDarel Hodge.
Hence, John Dorsey and the front office apparently agreed that there was a problem with depth and they did something about it. Draft picks are not free, especially when you are drafting players like Genard Avery and Mack Wilson in the late rounds. If there was a problem — and there was — it may have been largely corrected. Later they will have to ask why they did not get better results from undrafted free agents this year.
The actions of John Dorsey and the Browns show that they are going for it this year. Dorsey traded four future draft choices to shore up immediate deficiencies in depth. If the original roster was not as talented at the bottom end as we thought, they have tried to correct that issue immediately and at significant cost.
Moreover, though the bottom of the roster is the most arduous task for the general manager, everybody knows that the heavy lifting on the field is done by the big dawgs at the top of the roster. Baker Mayfield, Myles Garrett, Nick Chubb, OBJ, Denzel Ward, Joe Schobert, and company are the players who are most vital to the team performance right now. So it’s not like anyone needs to panic over second and third-string players not performing up to expectations.
Should Cleveland Browns fans lower their expectations?
by Elliot Kennel 2 days ago Follow @ebkennel
The Cleveland Browns enter the 2019 season with plenty of hype and playoff expectations, but should Browns fans lower their expectations for the season?
Should Cleveland Browns fans lower their expectations for 2019?
NO WE ARE NOT LOWERING OUR EXPECTATIONS! In fact, let us turn that around and ask why would anyone expect their team to not win the Super Bowl this year? What is wrong with your team if you have already given up before a single game has been played? It is a cliché but the logic is inescapable: Everyone is undefeated this time of the year. There is nobody planning to lose their next game.
If you have bet money that you can not afford to lose, because some little voice in your head is telling you the Browns are preordained to win it all this year, then yes you need help and should lower your financial risk. If you bet your house payment on Baker Mayfield having a big year for your fantasy football team, then you have a problem and should get help. But other than that, having high expectations is part of being a football fan. There is no need for anyone to apologize for it.
We can all do the math. 32 teams, and only one wins the Super Bowl. There are many more heartbreaking defeats than triumphs. If you can not deal with the prospect of defeat, perhaps football is not the sport for you.
Football is the most difficult game in the world. It is the most physically demanding game in the world, played in blazing heat and freezing cold. Players get knocked out and sent to the hospital routinely. That’s how difficult and demanding it is. But that is also a major part of what makes it great, and it demands that the team does everything in its power to win.
Knowing that, what kind of fans want their team to lose so that they can get a better draft pick next year? That is crazy talk. Maybe the director of player personnel thinks like that, but definitely not the players on the field. As fans, our first loyalty is always to the guys on the field.
Even when the Browns were 1-31, true fans wanted the team to win, and we felt the pain of each loss. That is never going to change. The goal and the expectation was always to win the next game, and the understanding has always been that someone else will get a chance if the team can not win.
This is part of our identity. Cleveland has always been an industrial town, populated by men and women who work hard, often wearing a hard hat and carrying a steel lunch pail. Yes there are doctors and lawyers and professors too, but once you set foot into FirstEnergy Stadium, the mentality changes. We are all united by the Cleveland Browns, and it doesn’t make any difference how much money you make or what kind of car you drive or any of that. That’s the way it has always been, and that is the way it will always be.
We expect that they will fight hard and fight smart. They will hit with everything they have, they will tackle and they will block like no other team in the NFL. AND WE EXPECT THE TEAM TO WIN.
But if they don’t win, we may have a few choice words for the coach and front office and even the owners. We are not lowering our expectations, and in fact that kind of talk makes no sense to Cleveland fans.
I'm not going to research it...but how many players from across the whole league were picked up after cuts from their training camp teams? I'd guess we were average to slightly above average.
BTW...he left out Brad Seaton who was picked up by Tampa Bay.
Here's a different take:
We had one QB that another team wanted;
We had one RB that another team wanted;
We had one TE that another team wanted;
We had one OL that another team wanted...and IR'd two guys;
No one wanted our cut WRs - THAT is a bit surprising to me. We IR'd one guy and have a suspended guy as well.;
We had two DL that other teams wanted. Zettel will soon make that three IMO;
No one wanted our castoffs at LB - not at all surprising;
No one wanted our discarded DBs...but we did IR a guy...and we kept 10 of them.
Someone wanted 50% of our punters.
The article was mostly, factually correct. Some of these writers should have a Browns fan review the articles before sending them out. Digging deeper like I did turns the table on the point of his article. JMO
The way I look at it is, the folks who post on this board are overall pretty good judges of talent. Folks who write about football for a living are usually pretty good at it too.
For the last 20 years have we been getting all hyped up on what a great team we have, only to be slapped in the face by reality during the season? No. For the most part the start of every season has been everyone pointing out how weak we are and how we're going nowhere, yet again.
So what makes this season different? It's blinding obvious to anyone with a hint of football knowledge that this team has way more talent than any Browns team in the last 20 years.
So even though it could go wrong (talented teams have failed in the past), believing the hype isn't foolish. Ignoring how good this team could be would be.
I also saw several scrolling across the screen on either ESPN or NFL Network the other day and those rankings were similar to the above links. Most have us at around 15 or 16. One of the above links had us at 13. I thought we would be higher than that. Not as high as some of you guys are saying, but higher than the middle of the pack.
I’ve seen some rankings of us between 15-20, which is probably due to our inexperience, first year HC, and offensive line. The hope is our defense can be stout enough for us to gain momentum on offense.
We are the Browns until we prove we aren't the Browns anymore. Last year was nice but it still wasn't a winning season even though it felt great to us because of the previous 2. It's up to us to show everyone things are different now.
I think middle of the pack is about right until we see how the season gets going.
This is a TALENT DRIVEN league ... we have a TON OF TALENT on this roster ... we have MORE TALENT than anyone else in this league does on our roster ... i challenged posters more than once during the off season for my fellow dawgs to find a roster with as much or more talent on it than ours .. i got ZERO TAKERS .... pretty sure we both know why ...
Relax and enjoy bro .... Barring injuries this season is gonna be one heck of a ride ... the only questions is how long will it last ....
QUIT OVERTHINKING THIS BRO .... the talent here is REAL ... its not like the last 20 years when ya’all thought we had way more than we did .... ya’all have gone the other way now .. *L* ...
RELAX AND ENJOY BRO .... this is gonna be FUN!!!!!!
we have alot to prove yet, have to start by beating anyone with a winning record first. I think everyone is kinda waiting to see how FK does. I'd venture to say we'd probably be ranked higher with a proven HC with any sort of track record. FK is the big unknown. Hope he does well, seems like a down to earth guy you want to root for, or buy a car from...whatever path he goes..lol
A few things at play here imo. First, teams generally have a Week 1 ranking that corresponds to their finishing rank from the previous season. The "author" may shift some of the power teams and churn the bottom of the barrel, but that's about it. We're in about the same place after adding OBJ, Vernon, Richardson, Hunt, and improving in all aspects except the offensive line. Along with having a QB that seems to be riding higher than the expected learning curve and going into his second year as the clear-cut starter.
Second, these rankings are about as valuable as a popularity contest until every team gets a few games under their belts and shows their true strengths and weaknesses.
Also - the Browns will again be one of the league's "feel good stories", the narrative is more exciting when we rise through the ranks rather than start near the top and struggle to stay there.
Let's be as honest as our coach though. "We look good on paper" IS worth nothing more than a "whoopty-hell" until we do something. Middle of the pack is about where we belong until it is shown that all the pieces fit.
We are the Browns until we prove we aren't the Browns anymore.
I was at a bar watching the game last night, and the guy next to me was a Browns fan, and said this, almost word for word. "We're the Browns until we aren't the Browns."
I get what he's saying, but we will always be the Browns. What we need need to do is to redefine what that means.
We are the Browns until we prove we aren't the Browns anymore.
I was at a bar watching the game last night, and the guy next to me was a Browns fan, and said this, almost word for word. "We're the Browns until we aren't the Browns."
I get what he's saying, but we will always be the Browns. What we need need to do is to redefine what that means.
Nice way to put it ... I agree. Every team/program/business/school/etc that has struggled needs a group of people to turn it around collectively ... it’s not easy, but I’m hoping this is the group that does it for us
I’ve seen some rankings of us between 15-20, which is probably due to our inexperience, first year HC, and offensive line. The hope is our defense can be stout enough for us to gain momentum on offense.
I believe our defense is truly a top 5 def. I also believe it will be the crux and backbone of this team.
Were this years version of the browns .... not last years version or the 0 - 16 or any other version of the browns .... this years version is MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE of all the other versions ...
Gee gad .... I give up ... *L* ... like that’ll ever happen .... i swear ... we could be accepting the SB trophy at the end of the year and some of u would still be doubters ... ...
I’ve seen some rankings of us between 15-20, which is probably due to our inexperience, first year HC, and offensive line. The hope is our defense can be stout enough for us to gain momentum on offense.
I believe our defense is truly a top 5 def. I also believe it will be the crux and backbone of this team.
I think it will play like a "top 5" when it needs to, and that's the important part. Not sure it will measure that way statistically. I feel like we might get into a few track meets. Huge plays on offense may lead to a tired defense knowing it just has to protect a lead. If the D plays consistently at a high level, this will be a very exciting year.
NFL network has a woman on who is a computer model specialist. Algorithms and computer modeling that crunch numbers from last year. Then she predicts the outcomes.
All very cute. Except it doesn't mean a damn thing.
How can anyone rank the teams without seeing them play at least one week?
There is not one team that has the roster it had last year. Not one.
In fact most teams change by a third.
So ranking? Based upon what the pre-season?
What a joke.
Let's see the first week at least then all of those meaningless gyrations can have at it. Players play the game they determine the outcomes not computers.
Rankings mean this: #6 beaten by #14. If you watched the first quarter of the Packers/Bears, you would think Rogers wouldn't complete a pass the entire game and that the Bears D would ensure a victory. If you watched the fourth quarter you would swear Trub would score on a comeback drive and tie the game. Neither happened. Rogers is Rogers and Trub threw an INT. #14 beats #6. New rankings next week. They're interesting in the perspective they give given the rosters and previous year's records. But that's it. The only thing that matters is who wins the most games including the final one of the football season.
I think the Browns can improve on their rankings, but the questions that I have read/heard deal with the following:
--Freddie hasn't been a HC on any level. Saying he is ready is wishful thinking. That doesn't mean he isn't ready or won't be a good HC, instead it means we have no idea. Fantasy Island won't change that.
--I saw this in one of the links....Can the OL protect our qb who tends to hold the ball too long at times because he is looking for big plays?
--Has the team learned how to win? They were 1-6-1 against teams w/winning records last year. They were 0-3 against teams w/winning records after the coaching purge.
--Will teams figure out Baker? He didn't do well in Haley's offense. Other QBs have, including Big Ben. If he is a system qb, it would be easier to figure him out.
--The concern if this team will implode if things don't go well right away? Lot's of big egos, young players, a lot of guys who haven't won much on the pro level, and a HC who has never been a HC.
So............I can see why the Browns are not ranked higher. The Browns may pass all of those questions w/flying colors, but that doesn't mean folks who raise them are being unreasonable.
Who is putting a ton of stock in them? Additionally, given our record last year and especially factoring in our record against teams w/winning records, I am surprised folks are putting so much stock into the opinions of folks saying how great we are going to be. I'm even more surprised that folks are acting like Fantasy Island is a real thing. LOL
Adding Sheldon, Vernon, OBJ and Hunt won’t matter much .... All the pups like MG, ObiWan and Njoku and others having a 2nd year under their belt won’t matter much .... guys like Bake, Ward, Nick and Avery going into year two as opposed to being raw butt rookies won’t matter much .... then throw the cherry on top of the pie that don’t matter .. Greedy ...
I’m about 98 or 99% positive having the coaching staff that started the season in tact at the end of the season won’t matter much either ...
Yup .... thats definetly the recipe for a middle of the pack team ... ...
Well, I guess you twisting my words into things I did not say is a step-up from you just laughing hysterically at my comments. So, there is that.
It's gotten to the point where you don't even attempt to talk football w/me. That's fine, but remember that the next time you want a breakdown. My opinions are either hysterical or cause for eye-rolls.
Who is putting a ton of stock in them? Additionally, given our record last year and especially factoring in our record against teams w/winning records, I am surprised folks are putting so much stock into the opinions of folks saying how great we are going to be. I'm even more surprised that folks are acting like Fantasy Island is a real thing. LOL
It seems, more and more, that it just maddens you when people get excited. It's uncanny.
People aren't necessarily putting stock into anything. They're just hyped up and excited to watch competitive football.
Well, I guess you twisting my words into things I did not say is a step-up from you just laughing hysterically at my comments. So, there is that.
It's gotten to the point where you don't even attempt to talk football w/me. That's fine, but remember that the next time you want a breakdown. My opinions are either hysterical or cause for eye-rolls.
Maybe that has more to do with the last 4 times i’ve asked u questions i’ve gotten only 1 response ... and that response was to tell me U may respond with a PM (witch i never received) cause u were sick of being insulted by your posse in that thread .... meanwhile u had the time to reply to another post i made telling me the word whore was vulgar ....
So u had the time to grade yet another post and tell me i was vulgar but u couldn't take the time to answer my legite questions ....
Now as is par for the course u wanna play the victim .... you’ve gotten quite good at it ....
It may end up being fantasy island ... u never know .... but i’m Not living this season in fear of my own shadow ... crappy butt way to go through life and i’m GOING TO ENJOY THIS in the here and now not in the “what could go wrong will most likely go wrong” mindset some CHOOSE to live in ...
PS. The best part is i still get to learn from U regardless of weather were in a “feud” or not ...
I feel differently. I made that statement in reply to someone who said he was surprised folks put so much stock into the power rankings when no games have been played yet.
I feel that some of you are "maddened" or angered if others want to look at the big picture and then it becomes some personality quiz, such as your post to me.
I haven't predicted gloom and doom for the Browns. In fact, I am very excited for the season and have said so. Repeatedly. However, there are questions and I don't see why you guys are getting so irritated about it.
And for folks who have known me a long time, I don't see how in the hell you can't figure out why I am tempering expectations. Hint: It has to do w/job security when the crazy expectations are not met.
I’m still scarred from the mid-80’s. I’m very grounded, and cautiously optimistic. I would consider a 9-7 record with a playoff berth a massive success. We have a lot to prove on the field, and a non-cupcake schedule.
Not trying to be a wet blanket, but giving my honest opinion.
I feel differently. I made that statement in reply to someone who said he was surprised folks put so much stock into the power rankings when no games have been played yet.
I feel that some of you are "maddened" or angered if others want to look at the big picture and then it becomes some personality quiz, such as your post to me.
I haven't predicted gloom and doom for the Browns. In fact, I am very excited for the season and have said so. Repeatedly. However, there are questions and I don't see why you guys are getting so irritated about it.
And for folks who have known me a long time, I don't see how in the hell you can't figure out why I am tempering expectations. Hint: It has to do w/job security when the crazy expectations are not met.
Yep yep. Got it. If anyone makes any comment whatsoever, we're "so irritated".
And you are on a one man crusade to save Freddie's job... By bringing up five times per day that if we don't do well the fans and media will call for his head.
I don't feel like playing this personality game w/you. I will be glad to respond to you if you want to respond to the football comments that I made above, but I don't want to continue w/the personality crap. Here they are again:
Quote:
I think the Browns can improve on their rankings, but the questions that I have read/heard deal with the following:
--Freddie hasn't been a HC on any level. Saying he is ready is wishful thinking. That doesn't mean he isn't ready or won't be a good HC, instead it means we have no idea. Fantasy Island won't change that.
--I saw this in one of the links....Can the OL protect our qb who tends to hold the ball too long at times because he is looking for big plays?
--Has the team learned how to win? They were 1-6-1 against teams w/winning records last year. They were 0-3 against teams w/winning records after the coaching purge.
--Will teams figure out Baker? He didn't do well in Haley's offense. Other QBs have, including Big Ben. If he is a system qb, it would be easier to figure him out.
--The concern if this team will implode if things don't go well right away? Lot's of big egos, young players, a lot of guys who haven't won much on the pro level, and a HC who has never been a HC.
So............I can see why the Browns are not ranked higher. The Browns may pass all of those questions w/flying colors, but that doesn't mean folks who raise them are being unreasonable.
Not because I'm a sports better, but because Vegas doesnt screw around when it comes to money.
That's not really the way it works.
Plus, I think most books are very exposed on the Browns. Meaning if the Browns win it all they are going to lose a lot of money. Meaning they don't actually think the Browns are going to win it all.
I don't feel like playing this personality game w/you. I will be glad to respond to you if you want to respond to the football comments that I made above, but I don't want to continue w/the personality crap. Here they are again:
Quote:
I think the Browns can improve on their rankings, but the questions that I have read/heard deal with the following:
--Freddie hasn't been a HC on any level. Saying he is ready is wishful thinking. That doesn't mean he isn't ready or won't be a good HC, instead it means we have no idea. Fantasy Island won't change that.
--I saw this in one of the links....Can the OL protect our qb who tends to hold the ball too long at times because he is looking for big plays?
--Has the team learned how to win? They were 1-6-1 against teams w/winning records last year. They were 0-3 against teams w/winning records after the coaching purge.
--Will teams figure out Baker? He didn't do well in Haley's offense. Other QBs have, including Big Ben. If he is a system qb, it would be easier to figure him out.
--The concern if this team will implode if things don't go well right away? Lot's of big egos, young players, a lot of guys who haven't won much on the pro level, and a HC who has never been a HC.
So............I can see why the Browns are not ranked higher. The Browns may pass all of those questions w/flying colors, but that doesn't mean folks who raise them are being unreasonable.
Oh, okay. I was responding to your snide remark about Fantasy Island, now you want "football talk". Got it.
-- No one knows if Freddie will be a great coach, nor is there any harm in thinking he's ready. He's been a coach and waited for this day for a long time, he seems to act the part, that's all we've got. I think he's ready -- that shouldn't make you mad and certainly won't contribute to him being fired if he's not.
-- So we should be predisposed to blaming Baker if the OLine can't protect him? Meanwhile, you have already predicted (numerous times) that everyone will blame the Line if Baker struggles. That's all fantasy as well. It's just talk, your opinion is no more valid than anybody else. You tend to predict things that will come to pass and then embrace your opinion as if it's fact. Don't care what happened in the past, this team is just about "brand-spanking-new" in every respect.
-- 0-3 against playoff teams. Yep, not good, going to have to beat the good teams. Will they? Don't know, that's why they play the games. Promise you they're not afraid of anyone, think they can beat anyone, and have the talent to beat anyone. If this was an ongoing problem, I'd be worried, it was one season during a dramatic turn around. Two years ago they couldn't beat anyone in the NFL.
-- Figure out Baker? Probably not, he AND our scheme will be multidimensional. What this has to do with Big Ben when Haley was here for 8 games, I'm not sure. Seems like a reach there bud.
-- Depends on what you mean by "go well". If we struggle and lose a few, heck no. If we suck? Yes, and it should.
Does some person saying a team is ranked someplace have any meaning?
If so it means nothing to me.
The point is to have a discussion.
I mean what is the point of all the hype? What does it mean? I don't think there is anything wrong w/it. I also don't think there is anything wrong to bring in other opinions. I don't think we all have to think exactly the same way and that independent thought is okay and promoting discussion on a subject instead of parroting others is a plus.
I guess you could put me on ignore if my posts bother you so much?
And you are on a one man crusade to save Freddie's job... By bringing up five times per day that if we don't do well the fans and media will call for his head.
Well, this isn't so much a prediction as it is an observation. It' happened to every HC we've had since 1999. Anyone who has been paying attention knows this.
And you are on a one man crusade to save Freddie's job... By bringing up five times per day that if we don't do well the fans and media will call for his head.
Well, this isn't so much a prediction as it is an observation. It' happened to every HC we've had since 1999. Anyone who has been paying attention knows this.
Riggghhht. So Vers should scold everybody that says anything too positive (in his eyes) because posts on here will lead to great expectations, and great expectations will lead to a great big implosion. I guess I could understand if it was his board and he made all the rules, but it's not. It's a community of posters that are welcome to have any opinion they like. Most understand that, some always get their panties in a wad.
I lament the day Freddie gets fired and Dorsey states at the press conference that he had to go because a bunch of people at dawgtalkers set him up for failure.
That in and of itself doesn't get someone fired. It's all of the bad media and fan pressure that comes with disappointment that gets people fired. And no, not from Dawgtalkers.
What people miss in all of this, is while we see this as a passion and a sport, for NFL owners, it's a business. A bunch of PO'd fans don't sell tickets and merchandise.
This team just went through a huge tank job to rebuild. I'm sure the Haslams feel it's time yo recoup the money they lost the past few years by having a putrid team they put on the field. It's time to "show them the money!" They won't repeat that process without trying new coaches and a new FO if the natives get restless. It's a business to those in power, not a sport. And to build that business you have to keep the natives happy.
Do you see the relevance when folks say the Browns are going to win 14 games and win the Super Bowl? What's the difference, bone?
I don't see why it bothers you that I posted the articles? Do you complain about the "positive" articles? I get the feeling that some of you are trying to stifle others.
A minor point, but the Haslams haven't lost any money, the value of the team has grown by about 1.3 billion dollars since they bought it, if I'm not mistaken.
GC, I don't think it's exactly the same team as last year, (shoot) there are a lot of differences, let me highlight just a few.
Jabril Peppers, and Breshad Perriman are out of the picture and Duke Johnson. Carlos Hyde is not going to go through the grinding of yards for the early season games, The returning 3rd year HC is out, and Whatever role Haley had, he's out also, and Gregg Williams has been gone for 6 months.
So this 2019 season is a brand new experience waiting to showcase itself.
A minor point, but the Haslams haven't lost any money, the value of the team has grown by about 1.3 billion dollars since they bought it, if I'm not mistaken.
When you're just winging it on 9 out of every 10 posts, those are minor details.
On the topic of the thread, I honestly don't think the Browns are hype this is very real, thats not to say they are perfect but my God they are loaded and healthy at least to start they are.
They will roll today the Titans gave up 42 sacks last year and they are missing their probowl left tackle but even with him I believe we roll in this game.
We aren't a perfect team not yet we have some areas of concern namely the O line Bake needs to take what the defense is bound to give him. Last season in some of the close games he would look to make the big play and leave receivers running underneath routes wide open and throw into tight windows on deeper routes, he needs to start taking those plays, when he does the deeper stuff will open up and this will also take the pressure off the O line. He does hold the ball trying to make the big play, he needs to do better taking whats easily there.
We have 2 stud running backs or we will, the WR group is the best in the NFL, while the TE situation isn't ideal Joke is no Joke he should have a career year.
The hype will increase ten fold after our 1st 2 games we are a team truly ready to roll, they just need to keep their feet on the gas pedal. Show up and play hard on every down we win lots of games this year, this is NOT hype, not in the least IMHO
Hey, here is a pretty good power ranking. Perhaps, ESPN is buying into the "hype" of how good the Browns are. They have us ranked 10th, which is higher than any other team in the AFC North. Pittsburgh is 11th.
For what it's worth, I have the Browns ranked somewhere around 8th to 10th at this point in time. Factors that I use are talent, coaching, experience, culture, last year's performances, and new acquisitions. I have a feeling that the writers who do such rankings use similar criteria.
I do think the Browns can move up the rankings, but they can also move down. All that depends on some of the things I brought up earlier.
I also think it's cool that we are no longer ranked 30th to 32nd on the most of the lists. It shows we are making progress and gaining respect. Hopefully, that trend continues.
A minor point, but the Haslams haven't lost any money, the value of the team has grown by about 1.3 billion dollars since they bought it, if I'm not mistaken.
When you're just winging it on 9 out of every 10 posts, those are minor details.
A minor point, but the Haslams haven't lost any money, the value of the team has grown by about 1.3 billion dollars since they bought it, if I'm not mistaken.
When you're just winging it on 9 out of every 10 posts, those are minor details.
Yeah, I'm sure he doesn't want his team valued at 5 billion. He hasn't lost money, but the Browns are ranked #28 in how much they are worth according to Forbes.
I'm sure Haslam is happy owning a team ranked 28th in worth.
Its does give us something to think about and a healthy exchange of thoughts is always fun. But in the grand scheme no we won't win any games here on dawgtalker.
The Forbes rankings have already been debunked several times before as not having all the necessary information to make a valid ranking system like this, for ALL sports. But let's say that they are correct:
Considering the teams at the top and the teams at the bottom, what factors do you see that the limit the Cleveland market in general?
The fact you referenced an article that lists values and nothing of substance behind it and is only a year-to-year comparison is peak PitDawg. Well done and again winging it.
And that was my point. If we don't put up a good season and things don't go as planned, pressure from the fans and media can apply pressure to cause changes in the coaching staff or FO.
A lot of emphasis has been placed and money spent on this rebuild and ownership is expecting results now. There won't be a lot of patience shown at this juncture by the fans, the media or ownership if things don't turn around quickly.
What are you talking about 'pressure from the fans and media'?
You were talking about the value - "value" of a franchise. You even admit the Haslams haven't lost money. You forgot to say how much value they've gained.
Ashamed of this game today. As a nod to the thread title, the Hype should be outlawed and laid to rest. We did not look ready to play. The number of penalties is a tribute to the referees. It is also testament to our mental toughness and degree of concentration and measure of readiness.
The flags were an insulting atrocity. Baker's sacks and holding the ball too long, what caused that? And I may be over-reacting, but BM seemed to throw late, throw short, and into multiple coverage. One pick had four guys around our single receiver. SOMEBODY ELSE must be open, or at least more open than that.
And Baker's ball seemed less lively. Would you say he challenged people deep? Could he today? Threw like playing hurt. His judgment and decisions (or lack thereof) hurt us regularly.
I brought these points up earlier when addressing our Power Ranking. They seem somewhat relevant today.
Quote:
I think the Browns can improve on their rankings, but the questions that I have read/heard deal with the following:
--Freddie hasn't been a HC on any level. Saying he is ready is wishful thinking. That doesn't mean he isn't ready or won't be a good HC, instead it means we have no idea. Fantasy Island won't change that.
--I saw this in one of the links....Can the OL protect our qb who tends to hold the ball too long at times because he is looking for big plays?
--Has the team learned how to win? They were 1-6-1 against teams w/winning records last year. They were 0-3 against teams w/winning records after the coaching purge.
--Will teams figure out Baker? He didn't do well in Haley's offense. Other QBs have, including Big Ben. If he is a system qb, it would be easier to figure him out.
--The concern if this team will implode if things don't go well right away? Lot's of big egos, young players, a lot of guys who haven't won much on the pro level, and a HC who has never been a HC.
So............I can see why the Browns are not ranked higher. The Browns may pass all of those questions w/flying colors, but that doesn't mean folks who raise them are being unreasonable.
You are misinterpreting the intent. The point was not to pat myself on the back. The point was to bring light to some concerns that might be true. I didn't come up w/those questions/concerns on my own. They are out there if you wanna read/listen.
Cleveland Browns fans already losing interest in team, ticket data suggests By Kristian DyerPublished September 10, 2019SportsFOXBusiness
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2019 NFL Season Outlook: Team by team previews, betting odds, and more The 2019 NFL Season has begun. Take a look at which teams and players could have breakout seasons.
The playoff buzz around one NFL team this offseason has already given way to the clamor of fans unloading their tickets. The fallout from the Cleveland Browns season opener is already leading to a decline in demand for tickets on the secondary market.
Following a 43-13 home loss to the Tennessee Titans in Week 1, the Browns are already seeing a drop in interest for their next home game in two weeks. Prior to Sunday’s loss, the get-in price for the Browns' next home game was $181 according to TickPick, a secondary market for sports and entertainment tickets. The site is reporting that number has dropped 21 percent to $141 for the Week 3 game against the Los Angeles Rams.
The reason is clearly the deflation of expectations around a franchise that has defined what some see as ineptitude in recent years. The Browns have had just one winning season since 2007 and a single playoff appearance dating back to their re-launch as a franchise in 2002. All this has led to unreasonable expectations and over-hype for the modest gains the Browns have made in recent years.
After a solid rookie year from quarterback Baker Mayfield, who won the Maxwell Award as the nation’s top college player during his final season at Oklahoma, expectations were measured for improvement in Cleveland. Then the Browns went off and traded for star wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. and the consensus was that the team was ready to take a step forward from last year’s 7-8-1 record.
MORE ON FOXBUSINESS.COM... COLLEGE FOOTBALL ARMS RACE: GEORGIA FOOTBALL ANNOUNCES NEW $80M BUILDING FANTASY FOOTBALL COSTS EMPLOYERS BILLIONS BUT STILL TRAILS MARCH MADNESS NCAA ATHLETE PAY: HOW A CALIFORNIA BILL COULD CHANGE THE BUSINESS OF COLLEGE SPORTS Now, the fan hype is deflating as evidenced by the numbers seen on TickPick.
"The Browns had a remarkable offseason landing some of the top free agents, most notably OBJ, and expectations couldn't have been higher. But then they come out [on Sunday] and completely flop -- it was a massive disappointment,” Brett Goldberg, TickPick co-founder and co-CEO, told FOX Business. “We saw demand drop significantly as a result, with both the get-in and average listing price dropping significantly. Usually, a Week 1 performance doesn't create such a major drop in prices unless a star quarterback gets hurt -- like Aaron Rodgers last year when there was speculation he was done for the season, or when Tom Brady tore his ACL in 2008. Given the Browns hype and expectations though, this is a unique situation."
Drops in ticket prices on the secondary market are normal at the start of any sports season when a team goes through a rough spell. The New York Jets, after their disappointing Week 1 home loss to the Buffalo Bills, have seen the average price for tickets to their Week 2 home game drop 5 percent to $183.57 from $193.55.
there is no way I can afford to take myself and family to a browns game and pay for parking etc and besides that why do it anyway to be disappointed. How many years do you have to work to buy a 2ooK watch. Fans are slapped in the face repeatedly by the Browns.
there is no way I can afford to take myself and family to a browns game and pay for parking etc and besides that why do it anyway to be disappointed. How many years do you have to work to buy a 2ooK watch. Fans are slapped in the face repeatedly by the Browns.
I understand, but things really haven't changed much except for inflation.
I remember my Dad saying he wasn't going to pay $14 a ticket to go to a football game. That was in maybe 1965.
Due to the limited number of games, football has always been a more expensive ticket over other sports.
Not sure where else to drop this, but did anyone else hear Greg Robinsons's presser about his ejection? I had the top off the Jeep so between the wind and my aux wire being crap, it sounded an awful lot to me like he was trying to make up some lame excuse, that he didn't actually try to kick the dude, it just happened? I didn't hear anything that sounded like owning up to it.
It may be that in order to try to skate on league punishment (and possible suspension) he's got to stick to a lame lie no matter how ridiculous? I haven't heard the interview, just speculating.
It may be that in order to try to skate on league punishment (and possible suspension) he's got to stick to a lame lie no matter how ridiculous? I haven't heard the interview, just speculating.
Yeah I kind of thought that could be the case? I heard a brief clip of it on CBD earlier this week.
Not sure where else to drop this, but did anyone else hear Greg Robinsons's presser about his ejection? I had the top off the Jeep so between the wind and my aux wire being crap, it sounded an awful lot to me like he was trying to make up some lame excuse, that he didn't actually try to kick the dude, it just happened? I didn't hear anything that sounded like owning up to it.
I'm less than impressed with all the guys pressers...Robinson, Baker, OBJ. Robinson didn't own it, Baker is a jerk to the media, and OBJ is just weird and very narcissistic.
Freddie was a little better, but he does this thing where he lectures the room. It was kind of interesting at first because it gave you some insight into the guy, but now it's an old and tired schtick.
The team has quickly become a group of people that are making it hard to root for.
I mean how hard is it just to be professional. These guys have been acting this way all off season. After that embarrassment this past week you'd think they'd tone it down a bit.
I don’t watch a lot of the pressers because I just read the main comments via twitter, but OBJ definitely is a diva/narcissist haha ... but, we knew that (and it means nothing if we win).
Baker is very matter of fact and self assured, which is a good thing ... EXCEPT when all of a sudden he loses that swag and it helps to deflate the whole team (aka Sunday)
I'm less than impressed with all the guys pressers...Robinson, Baker, OBJ. Robinson didn't own it, Baker is a jerk to the media, and OBJ is just weird and very narcissistic.
Freddie was a little better, but he does this thing where he lectures the room. It was kind of interesting at first because it gave you some insight into the guy, but now it's an old and tired schtick.
The team has quickly become a group of people that are making it hard to root for.
I mean how hard is it just to be professional. These guys have been acting this way all off season. After that embarrassment this past week you'd think they'd tone it down a bit.
Tired... that's the word I've been looking for. I want my team to be edgy, to have the ability to impose their will on the opponent, but this whole "no one can judge me" attitude doesn't impress me. I get that Robinson could have been presenting it that way thinking any admission would invite a harsher penalty from the league, but I feel like he could have owned it for what it was and coupled it with a sufficiently contrite apology, that it wouldn't have made things worse for him.
We'll see. If we lay another egg or this team plays undisciplined again, I'd agree that calls for Freddie would be extreme and unreasonable, but I won't exactly chastise anyone for saying it either.
I hope they prove us wrong and that Week 1 was an aberration, and that we finally have a professional team in Cleveland,
Not disagreeing with you and FWIW...There were numerous reports after the game that Robinson was very remorseful and apologized personally to many - if not all - of his teammates for what he had done.
I think the "accident" spin was just playing the same game that the Titans played to goad us on during the actual football game.
I think the big difference here is that goading someone into doing the wrong thing isn't against the rules. It's part of a good strategy actually. Allowing yourself to lose your cool and commit personal fouls is against the rules.
Yep, it's taking advantage of the emotionally/mentally weak. When I was coaching, we had a scouting report on a team w/short tempers and one player in particular who was a game-wrecking DT, who was pretty dirty.
We instructed our RG to block him to the whistle play after play no matter where he ball was. We broke 60+ yard run for a TD during the game, and our RG was still blocking the star DT towards the sideline nar the LOS, and the dude lost his head and whacked our guy upside his head. Flag and an ejection. We steamrolled that team and their lack of discipline helped cost them the game.
We used the same strategy in high school. The object of playing the game is to exploit an opposing teams weaknesses to your advantage within the confines of the rules. The Titans accomplished that with flying colors.
I think the big difference here is that goading someone into doing the wrong thing isn't against the rules. It's part of a good strategy actually. Allowing yourself to lose your cool and commit personal fouls is against the rules.
Every word you typed there is factual. I have two things to add to that:
Garrett and Robinson were both responding to dirty actions. Dirty actions that ARE against the rules but weren't called by that crack ref squad. When a ref won't call hands-to-the-face or hooking either - both things that ARE against the rules - now you are playing against the other guy AND the rules/refs.
As far as the decision to 'goad' your opponent, it's like a variation of cheating and the good 'ole "it ain't a foul if the ref don't call it". More true statements. However, these guys dress up in suits, make millions of dollars, talk about 'taking care of my family', the NFL sends them out weekly to visit schools and hospitals to teach kids a better way...then on the practice field and the games they display THAT kind of sportsmanship. I know...too bad...too sad...and that's how it goes...BUT...
The refs don't have to award such unsportsmanlike behavior by one team while cracking down on the other.
We used the same strategy in high school. The object of playing the game is to exploit an opposing teams weaknesses to your advantage within the confines of the rules. The Titans accomplished that with flying colors.
Except for the "within the confines of the rules" part.
Given all the pre-season hype, there are a ton of articles like this one that are out there right now.
Quote:
Given the hype, the Cleveland Browns' start has been a borderline disaster
The Guardian Oliver Connolly,The Guardian 5 hours ago
No team entered the 2019 season with more hype than the Cleveland Browns. They were supposed to be at the center of the football universe, and entered the year with six games scheduled for primetime, one shy of the maximum. This was the year they would finally break through after years of failure – and America would be watching.
And then the football was played. Now, sat at 1-2 – their sole win was against an awful New York Jets team – with an injury-riddled roster, a trip to a resurgent Baltimore on the horizon and a rookie head coach showing all the tell-tale signs of being a, well, rookie head coach, the Browns’ season of promise is in trouble. They have been distinctly average. In the normal course of things in Cleveland, that would be great. But relative to the hype and preseason expectations, they have been a borderline disaster.
No one has been as disappointing as second-year quarterback Baker Mayfield. It was Mayfield who changed the whole tenor of the organization, the city. Cleveland’s brand shifted; it was now cool and young and brash and relevant. Whatever went before was gone. This would be a team of style and substance, who spoke big then backed it up.
Mayfield stole the city in his rookie year. His play, like most rookies, was promising but inconsistent. And yet the team, with Mayfield on board, immediately leaped several rungs on the NFL ladder. From laughing stock to a bonafide playoff contender in the blink of a Tyrod Taylor injury.
The offseason served to solidify the Browns’ new-found status. Dysfunction and disorder were out. These were the new Browns, headed by the bluster and bravado of Mayfield and Freddie Kitchens, the team’s new head coach, and the cunning of John Dorsey, the team’s top decision-maker and a front-office lifer. Dorsey nabbed Odell Beckham, one of the league’s top pass-catchers, in one of the great trade swindles of the decade.
The years of doom and gloom were about to pay off. Cleveland had their star quarterback, a roster full of high draft picks, and a smattering of impact veterans who would elevate the team towards a championship.
And so far, it’s been a dud. Cleveland’s offense is stuck at 28th in DVOA, a measure of a team’s non-garbage time efficiency. The passing game has been less efficient than the run-game. They have converted just 11 third downs all season.
The way the team plays looks different, too. Gone are the motions and shifts and fun and games of last year. Kitchens, who aced his audition as offensive play-caller last year, is bombing in his first leading role.
“If you’re looking to blame somebody,” Kitchens said of Cleveland’s early-season struggles. “Blame me. Don’t blame any of our players, don’t blame any of our coaches.” They were the words of a man who had spent the offseason gobbling up books with titles such as “Fault Lines: how to take ownership and succeed” and “Not I or Me: It’s We” and other such generic garbage.
Transparent bids at taking accountability ring hollow in locker rooms. Cleveland’s starting tackles are not good enough and the offense has lacked the kind of imagination that sparked 2018’s late-season surge. The players know it. Kitchen’s time and energy have been shifted towards everything in the building, not solely what the Browns will do on first down. The difference is drastic.
And yet it’s Mayfield who remains the biggest concern. He sits 31st in DVOA among 37 qualified starters. If you rule out the two starters from the Dolphins, a team intentionally trying to lose, Mayfield would rank as the fifth-worst quarterback in the league by down-to-down efficiency, behind the likes of Jameis Winston and Andy Dalton. Things are even worse in terms of total value (DYAR). There, Mayfield is 34th sitting at minus-118, ahead of only Kyler Murray and the Miami twins. That’s 29 spots below Lamar Jackson, another quarterback in his second year in the league – but one who attracted significantly less hype than Mayfield.
Stick on any of Cleveland’s first three games and you notice a worrying trend: Mayfield bailing on plays early. He has happy feet in the pocket and is anticipating and expecting pressure without an iota of trust in his protection.
In fairness to Mayfield, that lack of trust has been earned. Mayfield has been pressured by defenders on around a third of his dropbacks in 2019, the eighth-worst mark in the league. The Browns finished with the 11th best pressure rate in the NFL a year ago, three whole percentage points better off per game. Give a quarterback that many more plays unencumbered per season and they will feast.
There are other, more nuanced issues. One is the inclusion of Beckham in the offense. Such a star demands defensive attention – which should liberate others to make plays – but he also demands touches. The Browns haven’t figured out how to incorporate him properly into their offense yet, and Mayfield has struggled as a result.
A quarterback unable to play his natural game helps no one. When quarterbacks start forcing the ball to their top target and predetermine throws prior to the snap, the rest of the offense sags. That is no knock on Beckham. He has played to his typically great levels. But the way he has been used has been ham-fisted and amateur – a quick screen here, a bubble pass there. When he has broken plays within the structure of the system, Mayfield has looked elsewhere:
The other issues: injuries and penalties. The Browns are far-and-away the leaders in penalties this season, with 35 of them, totaling 327 yards – that’s about a game’s worth of offense. Penalties are an amalgamation of bad coaching, a lack of talent and bad luck. Cleveland best hope the calls that have gone against them lean towards the latter, despite evidence pointing to the other two. The injuries are all fluke. Nine starters have missed at least one game this season due to injury or suspension. Few teams could stand that level of talent decay.
There remains hope – and, of course, we are only three games into the season. Cleveland’s defense has been Good with a capital G. It is currently eighth in defensive efficiency. The Browns have the potential to have the best unit in the league, and should finish in the top-five once everybody is healthy. And while the defense hasn’t risen to its potential yet, it has provided a good enough platform for the offense to win games.
Cleveland face the fifth-easiest remaining schedule, according to the analytics nerds at Football Outsiders. 9-7 may be enough to get them into the playoffs in the AFC, and playoffs are a must. Cleveland or not, the expectations remain high. The pressure is on Mayfield to prove his rookie season was not another false dawn.
I felt like the Titans game was a disastrous way to start (obviously) ... the Rams loss was way more expected (although we did look like fools the last few plays). But, if we lose to the Ravens then things are going to get way more hairy because we have a tough few games here
We were always losing to the Titans. Way overhyped team with a rookie head coach where week 1 is just an extension of the preseason and anything can happen. I think the shock was how we lost and how bad the offense looked in the process.
We were always beating the Jets.
We were going to be 50/50 toss up with Rams.
Everything record-wise has turned out the way it was supposed to.
The issue is the offense is a complete 180 from last year which makes the rest of the games that much more uncertain.
The Ravens are a beatable team. I don't buy for a minute that they a powerhouse team with an up and coming QB.
So like I said, we'll see what this team is made of. It's up to them, especially Freddie and Baker. My concern is I don't know how much you can get fixed in three days of practice.
If Baker would learn to take what the D gives him instead of forcing it we might be ok. From what I've seen and read we had guys open underneath and he just didn't see them or tried for the bigger gain. We should run the way we did against the Rams or a little more, run shorter routes and some play action. That should open things up a little.
I wasn't buying into the hype nearly as much as some were. I understood the growing pains of a first time HC combined with a new OC and DC being implemented at the same time.
But I understand why so many did buy into it and am not going to sit here almost four weeks later and try to rub salt into their wounds.
The Titans game was a disaster.. with all of the hype, to look that bad...
It's like going on a blind date and your friend builds up this girl as close to perfect so you get all excited.. then arrive at the restaurant and before she sees you, you see her picking her nose and wiping it under the table... Doesn't really matter how much better things get, it's hard to get that image out of your head...
We got a lot better in week 2 and even better in week 3.. but the "experts" still have that game 1 image in their heads (as do many of us) so every little thing is going to be picked apart until we do something to get it out of their heads...
We need to beat a decent team convincingly... things would calm down a lot.
The Titans game was a disaster.. with all of the hype, to look that bad...
It's like going on a blind date and your friend builds up this girl as close to perfect so you get all excited.. then arrive at the restaurant and before she sees you, you see her picking her nose and wiping it under the table... Doesn't really matter how much better things get, it's hard to get that image out of your head...
We got a lot better in week 2 and even better in week 3.. but the "experts" still have that game 1 image in their heads (as do many of us) so every little thing is going to be picked apart until we do something to get it out of their heads...
We need to beat a decent team convincingly... things would calm down a lot.
I think what cuts the deepest about the Titans loss is the 4th quarter performance. If the game ended with score after 3 quarters, there would be a lot of disappointment because people were expecting a Flying Circus on offense. But even then a close game isn't anywhere near as bad because you have to give the Titans some credit for a good game.
But when this team was down by only 9 points at the end of the 3rd and completely folded with a full quarter of play left? That was exactly the opposite of the team Freddie told us we had. For a team to come out that undisciplined and emotionally weak, it clearly shows that the coach didn't have the control or influence that he thought he did.
That game blasted a huge hole in Freddie and Baker's credibility as leaders. I think Freddie has promise and I do like Baker but we're 3 weeks in and we have no identity or direction for our offense. It's hard to tell the critics they're wrong when I can't tell them why I'm right.
But when this team was down by only 9 points at the end of the 3rd and completely folded with a full quarter of play left? That was exactly the opposite of the team Freddie told us we had. For a team to come out that undisciplined and emotionally weak, it clearly shows that the coach didn't have the control or influence that he thought he did.
Have to wonder how much of that sequence of events is still in Bakers head.. he's always had a reputation for having a short memory.. heck we saw it last year, he would throw an INT and as soon as he came back out he was still zipping it into tight places...
But going from being "in the game with a chance to win" and all of the expectations on his shoulders to being blown out in the 4th... We thought we were in it, then 2 of his first 3 passes in the 4th quarter were picked off and in a matter of minutes, we were getting blown out.. the one returned for a TD a couple drives later was just salt in the wound
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