DawgTalkers.net
Posted By: CalDawg Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 05:30 PM
willit & mac,

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted By: CalDawg
It's a stupid play call when the sun is shining. That makes it a really stupid play call in the rain with an unproven LT against a top D.


Was it stupid when we ran it against Balt and Jarvis took it to the house for like 20+ yards?


I don't like the play, wet or dry. The fact it worked once doesn't negate that. Calling this particular play in the rain is stupid, IMO. There are much higher percentage plays that could have been called, and that is the perennial problem here. We have the talent to make basic plays work, yet Freddie spends so much time on cutesy gadget plays the team keeps shooting itself in the foot. Put the second-year QB and the rest of the team in a better position to win by calling plays that protect the ball, gets the ball out of the QBs hand quickly, and gets the ball into the hands of the playmakers efficiently and most of the team's problems will in all likelihood fade away. The fact there was a turnover on that play, regardless of what caused the turnovers, makes it a stupid call by its very nature.

Right now, IMO, Baker should be concerned with handing the ball off, making quick, short passes to his playmakers, and going deep occasionally to keep the D honest. That's it. Period. Nothing more. He's a second-year QB on a team that has absolutely no chemistry. So use the KISS method. Keep it simple, stupid. The penalties and turnovers are killing us. How much of that gets diminished if they go back to basics? I'd say most of it. JMHO
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 05:37 PM
According to your description, one should never run a pass play in the rain.

Statistics show the shorter the pass the higher the success rate. A shovel pass is the shortest pass there is.
Posted By: ExclDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 05:41 PM
Kitchens calling "cutesy" trick plays was something that irked me even last year when we were doing well. I don't mind having the plays now and then, but it's probably something that should be run once every three games or so, not something run three times a game. They work best when the other team least expects it, and when you run those plays constantly, they start looking for it, if not have it scouted out completely.

I think that's what happened against New England. Belichick knew that if they saw Landry lined up in the slot close to the line that the misdirection play was a high possibility. I get the feeling the DE was coached to crash hard through when he saw that look, and the turnover was the result.
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 05:41 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
According to your description, one should never run a pass play in the rain.

Statistics show the shorter the pass the higher the success rate. A shovel pass is the shortest pass there is.


Yeah, how'd that work out?
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 05:43 PM
So you keep harping on "the one time" it didn't work out while ignoring all the times it did work out. That doesn't make sense.
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 05:44 PM
Yeah, I don't mind the occasional gadget play, trick play, or surprise play. But IMHO, you save those for when a team least expects them, and you call them when your team has built a solid foundation of trust and execution. We're not even close to being there yet, and the team isn't getting the time it needs on the field to get there because they are so busy running stupid plays and causing turnovers and penalties. Again, use the KISS method.
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 05:47 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
So you keep harping on "the one time" it didn't work out while ignoring all the times it did work out. That doesn't make sense.


Yes, name all those times it worked out. Then tell me how many times it worked in the rain. Tell me how this has become a staple of this offense, and how they lean on it to gain needed yards. Show me those examples and I'll bow to your expertise. I know you get my point, so stop $#!% stirring just for the sake of it.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 05:54 PM
No, I don't get your point. I will say again, according to that logic, no team should ever pass the ball in the rain. A wet ball is the same no matter who or where you pass it to.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 05:56 PM
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 05:57 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
No, I don't get your point. I will say again, according to that logic, no team should ever pass the ball in the rain. A wet ball is the same no matter who or where you pass it to.

Word. If you are going to argue a shovel pass is bad in the rain, you're really saying everything but a direct hand-off is bad. Furthermore, what did the rain have to do with a defender knifing through the line?
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 05:58 PM
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:00 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
No, I don't get your point. I will say again, according to that logic, no team should ever pass the ball in the rain. A wet ball is the same no matter who or where you pass it to.


I'll repeat, I don't like the play wet or dry. I never said no team should ever pass in the rain, but you go on and babble about whatever it is you want to babble about.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:02 PM
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:08 PM
Tony had a point. They wasted a lot of time on that drive. I see Baker's frustration coming from not having any success and he's starting to feel the heat of losing. I really wish they would get back to basics. Maybe a win Sunday helps get them calmed down and back into a better space. But they clearly need a win here.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:11 PM
Bad look for Baker. Something else for the media to beat him up on. Baker continues to be Baker's own worst enemy.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:12 PM
He woke up feeling sensative.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:14 PM
Originally Posted By: CalDawg
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
So you keep harping on "the one time" it didn't work out while ignoring all the times it did work out. That doesn't make sense.


Yes, name all those times it worked out. Then tell me how many times it worked in the rain. Tell me how this has become a staple of this offense, and how they lean on it to gain needed yards. Show me those examples and I'll bow to your expertise. I know you get my point, so stop $#!% stirring just for the sake of it.
We have ran that play multiple times, all of which have worked. Remember the play where Baker flipped the ball to himself last year and throw a TD, that was this formation, just a wrinkle of the play. We run this play multiple times, but put a wrinkle to it. Last time we ran it, landry was going the other way and scored a TD. I recall hearing on CBD that we average 18.1 yards when we have run this formation/play.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:14 PM
Originally Posted By: CalDawg
Tony had a point. They wasted a lot of time on that drive. I see Baker's frustration coming from not having any success and he's starting to feel the heat of losing. I really wish they would get back to basics. Maybe a win Sunday helps get them calmed down and back into a better space. But they clearly need a win here.


Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:15 PM
That's the puzzling part in all of this to me. It was clearly a mix up in the blocking assignment along the OL. Someone was supposed to pull over there and block the unblocked rusher.

The weather had nothing to do with that missed blocking assignment that blew the play up.

IMO people are just frustrated and looking for things to blame. But what went wrong on that play was quite obvious and claiming that someone won't go along with something that makes no sense just to stir up trouble is overlooking the obvious here.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:17 PM
If you wish to talk about babbling, you're trying to blame running a short pass play in wet weather on a blown blocking assignment. That's babbling.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:18 PM
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg
He should not have walked off like that, but lets be honest, that was a pretty dumb arse question "where you happy with the drive"? TG is a tool.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:19 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
That's the puzzling part in all of this to me. It was clearly a mix up in the blocking assignment along the OL. Someone was supposed to pull over there and block the unblocked rusher.

The weather had nothing to do with that missed blocking assignment that blew the play up.

IMO people are just frustrated and looking for things to blame. But what went wrong on that play was quite obvious and claiming that someone won't go along with something that makes no sense just to stir up trouble is overlooking the obvious here.
I guess BB and Brady are dumb for throwing that 33 yarder in in the game? Or throwing that screen pass for 50+..cause you know, passing in the rain.....
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:20 PM





I LOVE THIS!

Browns win 49-10.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:22 PM
j/c...

Posted By: CalDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:24 PM
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: CalDawg
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
So you keep harping on "the one time" it didn't work out while ignoring all the times it did work out. That doesn't make sense.


Yes, name all those times it worked out. Then tell me how many times it worked in the rain. Tell me how this has become a staple of this offense, and how they lean on it to gain needed yards. Show me those examples and I'll bow to your expertise. I know you get my point, so stop $#!% stirring just for the sake of it.
We have ran that play multiple times, all of which have worked. Remember the play where Baker flipped the ball to himself last year and throw a TD, that was this formation, just a wrinkle of the play. We run this play multiple times, but put a wrinkle to it. Last time we ran it, landry was going the other way and scored a TD. I recall hearing on CBD that we average 18.1 yards when we have run this formation/play.


Thanks for the stats. I know the play has worked, and there may be times to use it. But I don't like it as a play call specifically because it hangs the ball out there in a very small space. Most pass plays are (hopefully) thrown to an open man. In this case, the receiver clearly wasn't open, and the QB had no time to decipher that. Hence the turnover. It was a great play/read by the defender. And again, me personally, I would have liked to see some other call. Handoff. Slant. Out. Screen. Anything.
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:27 PM
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg
Originally Posted By: CalDawg
Tony had a point. They wasted a lot of time on that drive. I see Baker's frustration coming from not having any success and he's starting to feel the heat of losing. I really wish they would get back to basics. Maybe a win Sunday helps get them calmed down and back into a better space. But they clearly need a win here.




I wish I knew what he meant specifically by "back to basics" but I like the notion.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:28 PM
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:32 PM
We'll see what happens on Sunday. This team would probably do very well running some type of smashmouth football game plan. Baker would probably do well with a quick passing game with occasional deep balls. I want to see them play to their strengths without all the nonsense. We know penalties will happen and we know turnovers will happen, but if they can develop a rhythm and run simple plays, with the playmakers they have, the offense should do very well.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:34 PM
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


Why would he have ever gone away from it? Good grief.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:38 PM
Welp, never a good thing to walk out (or "storm out" if you want to be dramatic), but I get it... That was about the dumbest question you could ask. It's not even a question, it's a veiled attempt to get a negative emotional response, and it worked.

Kudos to Tony for "being Tony", we would expect nothing less. Kudos to Baker for the response on Twitter. Couldn't have said it better.
Posted By: Swish Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:39 PM
Jc

So our QB only plays well when he has to fake an imaginary chip on his shoulder?
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:40 PM
.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:42 PM
The fine print in the image on the right is CLASSIC.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:43 PM
Reporters ask dumb questions all the time. If that were a legitimate excuse, every player would walk out of these interviews every time.

I agree with Memphis....

Quote:
He woke up feeling sensative.


Except it's sensitive.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:47 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


Why would he have ever gone away from it? Good grief.


Methinks somebody had a stern talking to.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:49 PM
But do they ask the dumbest questions all the time, after interrupting the previous answer twice?

I do like the "woke up feeling sensitive" response though. rofl
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:49 PM
Originally Posted By: FATE
The fine print in the image on the right is CLASSIC.



It was....It's gone now.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:50 PM
Quote:
I know the play has worked, and there may be times to use it.
I replied with the information I did because you specifically said to pitt "its worked once". It has worked multiple times before. That was just an incorrect statement on your part.

I am going to address other points of you last post, and I don't want you to take these as snide, but I think its important to point out, because I believe you and others are completing missing the point.

Quote:
But I don't like it as a play call specifically because it hangs the ball out there in a very small space. Most pass plays are (hopefully) thrown to an open man.
Any pitch play or screen puts the ball in a very small place. Any hand off as well. So that kind defeats your argument here. Also, Jarvis is a WR, coming in motion behind the line, he should be wide open, when normally he is not going to be running a route. Also, in the NFL, WR are typically not open. There is a saying, if you draw single coverage, your open. Unless its 3-10 and your a NE RB, guys don't get open. Guys may get a little bit of separation, but that's about usually it.

Quote:
In this case, the receiver clearly wasn't open, and the QB had no time to decipher that. Hence the turnover.
I am sorry, you are way off here. 1. The entire premise of the play is for the QB to lead the defense with his eyes. So Baker is not even LOOKING the way of Landry. The play is designed for baker to get the snap, look right (away from Landry) immediately and shovel the ball to landry coming from left to right in front of baker. There is nothing to "decipher" from Baker. Its a bang bang play, with 0 thought process or thinking. He floats the ball knowing his receiver will be there to grab it. Its been done 1000X I am sure since last year and in TC. The only reason the play didn't work, was because someone on the OL didn't block the DL. The RAIN had absolutely 0 to do with the play. Nothing. This was all on whoever was supposed to block Guy.

Quote:
And again, me personally, I would have liked to see some other call. Handoff. Slant. Out. Screen. Anything.
You keep saying its a stupid play call in the rain. Do you realize a slant or screen, or out is more a risk in the rain that this play? Whats harder to do, pop the ball 2 feet in the air in front of you, or throw a dart on a slant with a wet ball? or throw a screen about 10 yards to your right with a wet ball? The RB (who I guarantee you has worse hands than JARVIS) has to catch, secure, and then run with the ball in the rain. A RB that had already fumbled, I believe twice.
Much more room for error as you are putting more force on the ball for a misthrow than lobbying it up like he did. So that makes no sense when you think about it.

Some are blaming Baker, that's just plain nonsense. Some are blaming the rain, that's just as much nonsense. Some are blaming the call, that's nonsense.

The only thing that failed here, was successful blocking by the OL. Plain. And. Simple.
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:55 PM
That's a well thought out response. I still don't like the play. I didn't like the call. We'll never know if another play would have worked better. I'm not "blaming" anyone. Including Freddie. I wish he hadn't called it. I wish he'd concentrate on getting his team in sync. But I know it's part of his offense, and I know it was a great play/read by the defender. But I Don't. Like. The. Call.
Posted By: ExclDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:58 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


Why would he have ever gone away from it? Good grief.


Methinks somebody had a stern talking to.


Dorsey's now making Freddie run laps every time the team has a mental lapse.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 06:58 PM
Originally Posted By: FATE
But do they ask the dumbest questions all the time, after interrupting the previous answer twice?


You see, reporters aren't really about reporting news anymore. It's about shock value and hits on their web site. Selling papers or magazines. Shock sells and they know it.

Hell, we even have a thread in the Tailgate about signing a petition to get Mary Kay fired. Not that I care for what passes for sports journalism anymore, but it is what it is.

So yes, if the press knows they can get under Baker's skin, they will. It's good for their business. The question at that point becomes do we blame the press for asking stupid questions, or do we blame Baker for acting out because they get to him?

These days a lot of people promote the idea of how leaders act out on others. Some prefer leaders who know how to act in the face of adversity. I guess it's all subjective.
Posted By: ExclDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 07:04 PM
Baker just needs to go to the Belichick/Popovich school of media responses and respond to snarky/stupid reporter questions with even more snark, just to show how stupid the question is.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 07:05 PM
Originally Posted By: ExclDawg
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


Why would he have ever gone away from it? Good grief.


Methinks somebody had a stern talking to.


Dorsey's now making Freddie run laps every time the team has a mental lapse.


You sure can't tell by looking at him. That's the most flagrant case of a Milwaukee Tumor I've seen in awhile.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 07:05 PM
Even that would be an improvement. Or even, "Next question" would work. But the whole storming off thing doesn't work.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 07:06 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man


Why would he have ever gone away from it? Good grief.


Time available to the coaches could be part of it. The CBA limits the number of hours per day that coached practices can happen, and they are likely trying to work through a TON of preparation during the week.

I could easily see where they would have relaxed certain things in the interest of moving through things better.... and I can easily see where they may now be realizing that this isn't the best idea.


It's part of the learning curve. Anyone that thought a rookie Head Coach would get absolutely everything correct on his first go-around had COMPLETELY UNREALISTIC ideas in their head.

It's painful, and frustrating, but as long as they are actually working through things and the players are finally starting to pop their heads out of their behinds, then it will all pay off in the long run. Even Bellichick wasn't Bellichick as a rookie HC.





Hopefully, the other thing they are getting right going forward is having someone look at things for Freddie before he uses a challenge, because he has not been good at choosing what to challenge, thus far, and he very much needs someone to give him unbiased feedback in real time before he throws his challenge flag.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 07:34 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


Why would he have ever gone away from it? Good grief.


Methinks somebody had a stern talking to.


Hollywood Higgins was on CBD yesterday saying on air that they needed to start holding players more accountable in practice and return to running laps for mental mistakes.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 07:35 PM

Bravo.

Great answer.

People are human. If anyone thinks this is fun and games in the locker room; wake up.

Think about what goes into being ready to play professional football. Sacrifice, loads of hard work and heavy lifting. The pressure to win is intense.

Some of the crap I have read is sickening. Like Freddie is selfish. Insinuating all kinds of garbage.

The players want to win. Baker cares about winning. The whole team does.

I get people are upset. I understand the lofty expectations. And now major disappointment. But damn.

Baker is our effing quarterback. That is not going to change anytime soon.

All this trash about a single play?

KOB. Baker should be benched? What? Get a clue.

The guy is 7 games into his second season. Look at the history of young quarterbacks.









Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 07:36 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


Why would he have ever gone away from it? Good grief.


Methinks somebody had a stern talking to.


Hollywood Higgins was on CBD yesterday saying on air that they needed to start holding players more accountable in practice and return to running laps for mental mistakes.


And we should probably start playing him more to....

Posted By: willitevachange Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 07:37 PM
J/C

I am listening to WDVE in Pittsburgh, and they are playing the clip of Baker walking out on TG's question and laughing.

Its def. not playing well.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 07:48 PM
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Quote:
I know the play has worked, and there may be times to use it.
I replied with the information I did because you specifically said to pitt "its worked once". It has worked multiple times before. That was just an incorrect statement on your part.

I am going to address other points of you last post, and I don't want you to take these as snide, but I think its important to point out, because I believe you and others are completing missing the point.

Quote:
But I don't like it as a play call specifically because it hangs the ball out there in a very small space. Most pass plays are (hopefully) thrown to an open man.
Any pitch play or screen puts the ball in a very small place. Any hand off as well. So that kind defeats your argument here. Also, Jarvis is a WR, coming in motion behind the line, he should be wide open, when normally he is not going to be running a route. Also, in the NFL, WR are typically not open. There is a saying, if you draw single coverage, your open. Unless its 3-10 and your a NE RB, guys don't get open. Guys may get a little bit of separation, but that's about usually it.

Quote:
In this case, the receiver clearly wasn't open, and the QB had no time to decipher that. Hence the turnover.
I am sorry, you are way off here. 1. The entire premise of the play is for the QB to lead the defense with his eyes. So Baker is not even LOOKING the way of Landry. The play is designed for baker to get the snap, look right (away from Landry) immediately and shovel the ball to landry coming from left to right in front of baker. There is nothing to "decipher" from Baker. Its a bang bang play, with 0 thought process or thinking. He floats the ball knowing his receiver will be there to grab it. Its been done 1000X I am sure since last year and in TC. The only reason the play didn't work, was because someone on the OL didn't block the DL. The RAIN had absolutely 0 to do with the play. Nothing. This was all on whoever was supposed to block Guy.

Quote:
And again, me personally, I would have liked to see some other call. Handoff. Slant. Out. Screen. Anything.
You keep saying its a stupid play call in the rain. Do you realize a slant or screen, or out is more a risk in the rain that this play? Whats harder to do, pop the ball 2 feet in the air in front of you, or throw a dart on a slant with a wet ball? or throw a screen about 10 yards to your right with a wet ball? The RB (who I guarantee you has worse hands than JARVIS) has to catch, secure, and then run with the ball in the rain. A RB that had already fumbled, I believe twice.
Much more room for error as you are putting more force on the ball for a misthrow than lobbying it up like he did. So that makes no sense when you think about it.

Some are blaming Baker, that's just plain nonsense. Some are blaming the rain, that's just as much nonsense. Some are blaming the call, that's nonsense.

The only thing that failed here, was successful blocking by the OL. Plain. And. Simple.

Pretty much agree with everything you are saying. I'll take it a bit further...

I hope this was a lesson to the players, the coaching staff and the dudes working on "scheme" and play-calling.

Although I agree, rain has nothing to do with this play, it is still much higher risk than any normal passing play... In essence, you're asking your QB to make a "no look" pass. That's why execution across the board is that much more critical.

This play is an ironic "anti" microcosm of what we were worried about going forward from last year... things being too simple and not sustainable.

In order for this play to keep a high success rate we need more plays out of the set and more wrinkles so that it is not predictable. I maintain that BB coached his players to look for it and knew it was coming. It has to be more of a "paper-scissors-rock" situation where they see the set and don't know which variation is coming.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 07:49 PM
That is good news. Either FK dumbs it down and simplifies his focus or the players will with more failures, penalties, and turnovers. We need to be a lot better at fewer things from which we can build. Ask Dalton about it.

I am reminded a number of years back. A college team had only three plays. They ran two of them either direction, and they had wrinkles off that and limited passing routes. And they won with them because they practiced them endlessly and tweaked them for opponents. Hundreds of plays in a playbook that doesn't score is great for resumes, but not games.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 08:05 PM
Originally Posted By: ExclDawg
Baker just needs to go to the Belichick/Popovich school of media responses and respond to snarky/stupid reporter questions with even more snark, just to show how stupid the question is.


We're on to Cincinnati.

If anyone hasn't seen it, YouTube the Frank Caliendo Belichick impersonation where he keeps saying we're onto Cincinnati. I can barely type this without laughing as I think about it.
Posted By: myka Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 08:11 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: ExclDawg
Baker just needs to go to the Belichick/Popovich school of media responses and respond to snarky/stupid reporter questions with even more snark, just to show how stupid the question is.


We're on to Cincinnati.

If anyone hasn't seen it, YouTube the Frank Caliendo Belichick impersonation where he keeps saying we're onto Cincinnati. I can barely type this without laughing as I think about it.


Sorry if I'm yelling. rofl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE5U0ZvmHIk

Thanks for mentioning that. Hilarious.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 08:34 PM
Oh man, when he holds the paper up...it's classic. If you're having a bad day that will make you laugh.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 08:50 PM
I want to see guys drop on the field and do pushups when they commit penalties ... like in Major League. wink
Posted By: Punchsmack Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 09:34 PM
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
J/C

I am listening to WDVE in Pittsburgh, and they are playing the clip of Baker walking out on TG's question and laughing.

Its def. not playing well.


Meh, Pittsburgh has always laughed at us. It's up to this team to shut them up this year. Beat them twice and nobody will remember anyone laughing on Oct 30th.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 09:46 PM
I get Baker going off on Tony. I have no problem with it either. I wish they'd do it more often.
Posted By: keithfromxenia Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 10:01 PM
cal, if we only run plays that always work we will be punting on first down. That play has worked multiple times and might have worked Sunday if our blocking had held up.
Posted By: Dave Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 10:23 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
I get Baker going off on Tony. I have no problem with it either. I wish they'd do it more often.


IMO, it was Mayfield who was out of line, not Grossi. Grossi's question was about the Browns' final possession of the first half, from their own 16 yard line, with 2:19 left in the half, with one timeout left. Here's the play-by-play:

1st & 10 at CLE 16

(2:19 - 2nd) (Shotgun) N.Chubb right tackle to CLV 23 for 7 yards (D.Shelton, J.Jones).

(2:00 - 2nd) Two-Minute Warning

2nd & 3 at CLE 23

(2:00 - 2nd) (Shotgun) N.Chubb right tackle to CLV 23 for no gain (J.Collins, L.Guy).

3rd & 3 at CLE 23

(1:15 - 2nd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short right to O.Beckham to CLV 27 for 4 yards (S.Gilmore).

1st & 10 at CLE 27

(0:51 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short left to J.Landry to CLV 39 for 12 yards (J.Collins, J.Jones).

1st & 10 at CLE 39

(0:32 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked at CLV 29 for -10 yards (A.Butler).

(0:28 - 2nd) Timeout #3 by CLV at 00:28.

2nd & 20 at CLE 29

(0:28 - 2nd) (Shotgun) PENALTY on CLV-J.McCray, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CLV 29 - No Play.


2nd & 25 at CLE 24

(0:28 - 2nd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short left to D.Hilliard to CLV 30 for 6 yards (J.Collins, J.McCourty).

3rd & 19 at CLE 30

(0:01 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short left to D.Hilliard to CLV 33 for 3 yards (J.Collins).

****************

Grossi asked about "the lack of urgency" and Mayfield responded that they were "behind the chains" due to the penalty, but the penalty wasn't until it was 2nd & 20 with 28 seconds left in the half. Grossi was clearly referring to the time that elapsed between downs before that, but Mayfield responded with "Stop saying 'but' " when Grossi tried to clarify his question. He also dropped the "you never played the game" card on Grossi.

I get that most people here don't like Grossi, but it was Mayfield who was the punk today. He could have just as easily said "next question", but he chose to be fake-angry instead. Not a good look.
Posted By: bigdatut Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 10:40 PM
This team is thisclose from the wheels coming completely off the bus. You're a real jerk, NFL Jesus.

Thought we'd get one year of relative fun. smh.
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 11:21 PM
Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie





I LOVE THIS!

Browns win 49-10.


me too.

I like the kid a lot. there are so many tings to love about him.


He needs to get back to basics and grind it out. He also needs to imagine taking a Xanax and chill out.

He will be just fine as our QB. He just needs time, better coaching, and consistent team play.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 11:40 PM
Did I really read a comment that Baker is now responsible for the offensive penalties. LOL. That's as rationale as blaming the shovel pass interception on Baker. Fair and balanced fans without an axe to grind or an agenda to tout no doubt.

As for the other 300 posts in this thread about the call - I didn't like the play call either. I didn't think about the new LT who may or may not have practiced that play enough ... it was the timing of the play. We hadn't established anything on offense, hell I know the first 4 plays of the day were all passes - and I don't know how many times we ran the ball before the play was called ... but it seems to me that you run that play AFTER you have had a little success and the D might be on their heels a bit? Not as a play to try to kick start a failed game plan. It sort of makes me think of the 4th down draw ... the other team basically said, hey, it might have worked if CLE hadn't run a bunch of draw plays that game already. Timing plays a big part .... on the opposite end of the spectrum - I think the huge screen pass on 3rd down and long was the Patriots first screen of the day. Great call but better timing.

I guess the next thing will be - once we start winning games and Baker plays well - the nay-sayers will simply say we are playing bad teams.
Posted By: JulesDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/30/19 11:55 PM
Quote:
I guess the next thing will be - once we start winning games and Baker plays well - the nay-sayers will simply say we are playing bad teams.



And the homers will say we are heading for the Super Bowl next year. Just as predictable.

I like Baker. I think and hope he will be just fine as the QB of the future. But, he has stunk it up thus far this year, and sometimes behaves like an ass. As usual, the extremes on any subject look and act foolish.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 12:44 AM
Meh.

If you want to take it at face value, go for it.

I think some forget the history between Grossi and Baker. Grossi has deemed Baker as Johnny Manziel 2.0 since January last year. He's been on his case and couldn't wait to hair on him much like Cowherd.

It's also interesting how perception changes depending on who is involved. Tom Brady does the same thing, walks out of press conference and all is forgiven. Baker does it and he's a punk kid.
Posted By: Swish Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 12:46 AM
Y’all actually like that mayfield is throwing hissy fits on Twitter? Let that be OBJ and y’all would be trashing him right now.

That’s not leadership. Dude was the #1 overall pick, had the world given to him after winning the heisman. Got his pick of HC, got all these weapons, yet is acting like how dare anyone question him.

Man we should’ve drafted Wentz or Watson. I’m already sick of bakers wack ass progressive commercials too.

This man has 6 TDs to 12 picks. He’s under 60% completion. He needs to Shut the hell up and learn how to be a quarterback. Nobody cares about his fake ass chip on his shoulder. Tired of that of crap already.
Posted By: Dave Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 12:48 AM
Quote:
It's also interesting how perception changes depending on who is involved. Tom Brady does the same thing, walks out of press conference and all is forgiven. Baker does it and he's a punk kid.


There IS that little matter of the 6 Super Bowl rings, too. Maybe we could win a few games before we go all Tom Brady at a presser?
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 12:54 AM
I get Baker hasn't played well, but this whole notion he doesn't know how to play quarterback is silly.

I also don't think he's throwing a hissy fit.

Perception.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 12:54 AM
Thank you for making my point.
Posted By: Dave Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 12:56 AM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Thank you for making my point.


BS
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 12:56 AM
The Baker Grossi narrative isn't entirely accurate.

Yes, Grossi was opposed to Baker before the draft but he came around on him last year and even predicted big things for the Browns this year because of Baker.

However, maybe he's done an about face and is back to trashing him. I read - haven't seen myself - that he's been comparing Baker to Kizer on Twitter an in instagatory fashion so maybe Baker is upset with that. Who knows.

As for Grossi's question, anyone with half a brain saw the drive wasn't going to amount to much and the Browns backed off knowing they were getting the ball after the half and not wanting to give Brady another crack at it. Anyone who did not realize this during the game - fan or beat writer - is a moron and is asking stupid questions.

Having said that, Baker needs to spend less time on social media and more time winning games. He needs to grow up and mature. His lack of maturity is a contributing factor to his play, IMO.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 01:15 AM
It's ok to walk out of a press conference if you've won 6 super bowls.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 01:17 AM
We are all still waiting for Grossi to mature....
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 01:17 AM
Originally Posted By: Swish
Y’all actually like that mayfield is throwing hissy fits on Twitter? Let that be OBJ and y’all would be trashing him right now.

That’s not leadership. Dude was the #1 overall pick, had the world given to him after winning the heisman. Got his pick of HC, got all these weapons, yet is acting like how dare anyone question him.

Man we should’ve drafted Wentz or Watson. I’m already sick of bakers wack ass progressive commercials too.

This man has 6 TDs to 12 picks. He’s under 60% completion. He needs to Shut the hell up and learn how to be a quarterback. Nobody cares about his fake ass chip on his shoulder. Tired of that of crap already.


I'm down on Baker but I'm also not all that concerned. I think he's going to figure it out and turn it around. I think he's too smart and too talented not to. I think he will end up being the best QB from last year's draft by a wide margin. In order to do it though, he needs to grow up. I'm counting on him doing that.

As for his stats, I think they are indicative of his poor play but also misleading and would indicate he's played much more poorly than he has. I can understand non Browns fans who don't watch Browns games using those stats against him. I don't understand Browns fans who watch every game doing that. I've never seen so many fluky interceptions on a nearly weekly basis. If it wasn't for bad luck he'd have no luck at all.

I don't want to see the fans turn on Baker. I think he's going to make Browns fans proud if he could grow up a little bit.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 01:24 AM
Originally Posted By: Swish
Y’all actually like that mayfield is throwing hissy fits on Twitter? Let that be OBJ and y’all would be trashing him right now.

Vers? Where you been bro?
Posted By: Dave Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 01:26 AM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
It's ok to walk out of a press conference if you've won 6 super bowls.


Its called "street cred". Its only arrogant if you haven't done anything to earn it.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 01:28 AM
Originally Posted By: JulesDawg
Quote:
I guess the next thing will be - once we start winning games and Baker plays well - the nay-sayers will simply say we are playing bad teams.



And the homers will say we are heading for the Super Bowl next year. Just as predictable.

I like Baker. I think and hope he will be just fine as the QB of the future. But, he has stunk it up thus far this year, and sometimes behaves like an ass. As usual, the extremes on any subject look and act foolish.


I haven't seen anyone say Baker is playing well or even ok, everyone says hes playing poorly. But some think there are many contributing factors, included in which is Baker himself ....

Others have pronounced him a bust comparing him to Ryan Leaf, and now some are blaming offensive penalties by the other players on Baker. I disagree.
Posted By: Swish Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 01:40 AM
Sorry but I don’t want to hear the excuses anymore.

Mason freaking Rudolph, a 3rd round pick and playing with WAY worse talent surrounding him has 9 TDs to 3 pics, and is at 63% completion.

Lamar Jackson, who doesn’t have Landry or OBJ to throw to, has 11 TDs and 5 picks, and a ton of people said he needed to change positions.

Kyler Murray can’t even see over his offensive lineman, is playing with no talent, no line, and a rookie HC who got fired in college. And yet, has 7 TDs and 4 picks, with 63%

I have watched the games just like you, and while SOME of the picks have been bad luck, the majority of them have been to bakers p1ss poor play.

He has crap mechanics. He isn’t reading the whole field, he’s holding on the ball too long, oh and he HASNT been accurate.

You are what your stats and record says you are. And we’re 2-5. I don’t want to hear it.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 01:48 AM
Win games and none of this matters. Lose games and it becomes a story.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 01:57 AM

The Tony Grossi story with the Browns is well documented.

All of the coaching staff along with Freddie and the players have been prepped for Tony.

It is so obvious in all the pressers. Their view is he has been here for a long time. Pessimism drips from every question.

From all that has happened sure there is frustration.

Nobody is wearing happy faces. They expected more from themselves. Nobody likes to lose. Emotions are on the surface.

This has nothing to do with what needs to take place. Nothing to do with being ready to play Sunday.

Fishbowl NFL. If you liked Baker before. This will not matter. If you didn't like him more fuel to fire yourself up.

My interest is the rest of the season. Not all this media micro BS.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 02:02 AM
I get where you are coming from. I'm just saying while this is currently painful there will be brighter days ahead for Baker. They may not be on the timetable we wish them to be unfortunately.
Posted By: DeisleDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 02:44 AM
Quote:
My interest is the rest of the season. Not all this media micro BS.


I wish I had interest..Seriously don't give a damn..1999 through last Sunday...Tell me how you feel..

I don't like the media......Don't like losing seasons one right after the other ... wth is the media suppose to ask ? Great win how you feel ? Talking to the team the Browns just lost to... So Freddie...Who's to blame ? Blah blah blah..


So Baker....Been planting any flags lately ?
Posted By: Psydeffect Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 02:46 AM
OBJ has dropped a ton of passes this year, not really making excuses for Baker. Just noting that OBJ has been pretty much awful this year. That drop of a perfect back shoulder throw on the sideline definitely cost the team points last week.

He has been well short of advertised himself this year.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 03:16 AM
I'll be curious to see the mood of this board when we are 6-5 in 4 weeks with games against the Steelers, cardinals, ravens, and 2 games against the Bengals to round out the season.
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 10:42 AM
Originally Posted By: Psydeffect
OBJ has dropped a ton of passes this year, not really making excuses for Baker. Just noting that OBJ has been pretty much awful this year. That drop of a perfect back shoulder throw on the sideline definitely cost the team points last week.

He has been well short of advertised himself this year.


You are just making up stuff to make excuses. OBJ has bailed Baker much more times than dropped passes.

Also wasn't Baker supposed to be the YAC master, hit WR's in stride... all I see this year is bad thrown balls.

When a guy s playing this bad, its not good to be accusing others,just saying. You groupies have to get your act together.
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 11:00 AM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
I get where you are coming from. I'm just saying while this is currently painful there will be brighter days ahead for Baker. They may not be on the timetable we wish them to be unfortunately.


Rishuz.. I'm being a bit put off by Baker groupies, I think they should just shut up and take the criticism like man.. Sorry, if some times I'm a bit harsh, but that's because I always hated cults.

I actually think Baker has a very good potential, but when was the last time you saw a big mouth QB make in in the league?

He has to grow up and mature.. that will translate into leadership and the ability to make all others better.

The way he is playing and acting, he's making all around him worst. He should have been benched many games ago.
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 11:13 AM
Good old Tony Grossi makes an ass of himself again

Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 12:08 PM
Mayfield just showed a complete lack of professionalism. He is a payed PROFESSIONAL If this organization had any cajones at all they wouldn't just let this slide.

what Baker did to Grossi is the same damn thing Antonio Brown did to Ed Bouche of the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, and Steleers didn't put up with it. They made Brown publicly apologize for it. However, the Browns (Dorsey) doesn't have the cajones to make Mayfield do that because he doesn't have firm control of the ship.

This is why I said in the other thread that the Browns NEED Mike Tannenbaum. As GM he takes control of this organization, He takes all the blame too. No way he lets Mayfield or anyone for that matter get away with this. He is off the Bellichik tree. If Tannebaum was our GM Mayfield would have been called into his office asap and the conversation would have went like:

Tannebaum: "Baker, You can't be talking to the media like this. its unprofessional and makes the whole organization look bad, its simply unacceptable and we will not tolerate that here"

Mayfield: But he was....

Tannenbaum: "It doesn't matter, thats not how we do things here. You are not to do that ever again do we understand each other?

Mayfield: "Yes sir, Im sorry. Won't happen again.

Tannenbaum: " Good, and Im glad you apologized for it. Now your going to go out tommorow at the press conference and your going to apologize to Mr. Grossi, and your never going to do that again. Are we clear?"

Mayfield: Yes sir.

Tannenbaum: "Good, and by the way, that stunt is also going to cost you a game, im deactivating you. Now go home and i'll see you in two weeks. I hope you use this time to think and re-evalute things moving forward. We still believe your the guy, but its up to you for things to fall into place. Now go

That how something like this should be handled. This team NEED leadership, they NEED to be told how things are, they NEED STRUCTURE and thats what Tannebaum brings, structure. Clearly defined Structure is why Bellichik has been able to maintain such success for so long. I mean he benched his star cornerback(Butler) in the Super Bowl for petes sake for being an arse....When you have structure, you have control, and when you have control, guys will fall in line, and those who don't you ship out because you don't need them, they can be someone else problem.

Our goal is to win football games, not coddle to Mayfield, Garret, or anyone else for that matter. They gotta buy in, get with the program, or get out. Its very simple.

right now we just have a team full of talent that has no structure, and nothing to buy into and that starts at the top.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 12:17 PM
But seriously though,

there is NEVER any justification for being an arse when your a payed professional. You are to maintain professional etiquette at all times, If Mayfield didn't want to answer the question, he simply should have said:

"Mr. Grossi, with all due respect, I'd rather not rehash that again. My focus is on winning Sunday. Are there any other questions you would like to ask me?"

that shows maturity and professionalism, and Grossi would have respected it.
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 12:31 PM
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
But seriously though,

there is NEVER any justification for being an arse when your a payed professional. You are to maintain professional etiquette at all times, If Mayfield didn't want to answer the question, he simply should have said:

"Mr. Grossi, with all due respect, I'd rather not rehash that again. My focus is on winning Sunday. Are there any other questions you would like to ask me?"

that shows maturity and professionalism, and Grossi would have respected it.


His behavior in this things explains a lot of what has happened this year. This is just like another form of pressure, the way you react tends to be the same, and sure looks Baker is rattled.

losing your cool under pressure is the worst thing you can do. Someone needs to create some space for Baker to mature, throwing him to the wolves solves nothing.

Actually they should have done it some games before, use a silly excuse to IR him, and bring him now to the Denver game.

Whole situations is being managed by amateurs at best.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 01:28 PM
J/C

Baker walking off was a bush league move. Hes a 24 year old kid that's a 2nd year pro. Ya'll and these reporters bashing him for it want him to grow up, but say nothing about the 30+ year reporter who was interrupting him, baiting him questions, looking for this response.

TG has been going hard at baker ever since he made him look like an arse asking if he was retiring.

TG literally bashed this kid over and over during the draft process, then when drafted basically called him a bum and a bad pick. Then when baker balled out, TG got butt hurt cause it made him look like the idiot he is. Now he has been doing anything he can to get under his skin, and finally did.

Baker was wrong. He needs to act better here. But lets not let TG off the hook either. The dude is doing anything he can to cause turmoil on OUR team, and doing anything he can to make OUR team look bad, simply to further his own career.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 01:29 PM
I think we will we know what Baker's teammates think of him on Sunday. If they rally and play well, I think that means they have his back. If they wilt, I'd probably read into it that they don't. This is a big game for the Browns in a lot of ways.

At any rate, the Browns managed to take a promising season and destroy it as only the Browns can do.

Really good times.

Ugh.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 01:35 PM
This is the longest I've stayed away from the board after a game. Watching that first quarter was really really frustrating.

I thought Baker had an ok game. I feel like he's oh-so-slowly getting back to what he was doing last year. He's not good... he's still working through the meat of the 2nd-year QB regression... but I feel like he's making noticeable improvements each game.

Not to excuse his play, but the story of the NE game, when you boil it way down, is team discipline, consistency, and collectively having our heads way up our butts. Baker's play is a piece of that, but isn't the biggest part.

Similarly, Baker needs to be a pro off the field. He just needs to come to the realization that Cleveland has (probably) the worst sports media group in the country, overall. Grossi is the worst of the worst. If Baker didn't have a laundry list of things to nitpick him about, I'd make a bigger deal about this.

Let me put it this way. I have no problem with Baker putting Grossi in his place as much as possible. The thing with this encounter is Grossi obviously got under Baker's skin. And Baker is also sending click Grossi's way, which is the only currency the resonates with Grossi.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 02:43 PM
Originally Posted By: CalDawg
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
According to your description, one should never run a pass play in the rain.

Statistics show the shorter the pass the higher the success rate. A shovel pass is the shortest pass there is.


Yeah, how'd that work out?


It didn't. Not because of the play or playcall. It was because someone didn't block their man.
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 03:09 PM
Baker should have told Grossi to "go you know what himself" and the horse he rode in on. Grossi has been an ass since he was removed as the Browns beat writer almost 9 years ago.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 03:37 PM
That seems to be the go to line these days. "Well he was an ass so it's okay for me to be an ass too." That works okay for every day guys on a message board. Not so much for someone who is supposed to be the face of a franchise.
Posted By: PastorMarc Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 03:39 PM
I love Bakers fire, but, it's time for him to focus that fire into the game plan and on the field ... JMHO thumbsup
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 04:07 PM
Posted By: Riley01 Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 04:29 PM
jc

I think that T.G. was subliminally calling out Kitchens coaching
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 06:14 PM
I feel like there are a lot of people who still don't get Baker Mayfield.

There are no groupies. There is no cult. There are people who understand Baker, realize he is the franchise quarterback and know he's going to be great.

Maybe some people back him to a fault, but nothing compares to the bs he's had to endure from his detractors. Some of them including Grossi labeled him the next Johnny. He's nothing like Johnny.

I would guess 90% or more the people here would have done the same thing or worse, yet many are quick to call him unprofessional or immature. I absolutely LOVE that he walked out. Well deserved, actually.

I mean no other "reporter" asks the most stupid questions on a regular basis than Grossi. What response is he trying to elicit by asking if someone was happy with a drive that didn't score points except the one he got. Grossi = Troll.

Alas, people often mistake passion and related emotions for immaturity. But perhaps there is a cult, but it's the one featuring Baker haters itching to see a reaction to some asinine question in order to portray him as an immature punk who spends way too much time on social media.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 06:28 PM
I listen to 850 a.m and the Really Big Show from time to time. I switch off when 'Hammer' is spouting nonsense (which is a lot of the time). I also listen to 92.3 .... but before the draft Grossi really didn't label Baker as Johnny II. He didn't knock the pick. And Grossi was very quickly very positive about Baker's play on the field. He's always had a bit of a thing about his maturity which I understand even if I don't share the same deep concern (I think it's part of who he is). I don't mind Grossi at all - he's overly negative sometimes and I take half of what he says with a grain of salt. But mostly he seems like a life long suffering fan. It'd be like having Rasta or one of the negative posteres here being the beat reporter.
Posted By: Hammer Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 06:38 PM
To be clear, that 'Hammer' is not me.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 06:43 PM
Yeah ... no doubt. the guy is a less talented Skip Bayless. Shock jock with zero integrity or sporting knowledge. Actually he's pretty clueless about life in general. From what I can gather I think he got his spot off the back of family connections but I don't know. Sadly I remember how he was all in on Johnny Manziel that draft. Wanted him at #5 so desperately. Listened to him spew so much chit about JM it wasn't funny.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 06:48 PM
So, let me make sure I understand. You have never seen a coach or player get angry with a reporter?

Never seen one walk off? MMM. I have plenty of times.

So Mayfield walking away was so insulting to poor Tony?

And somehow that behavior is correlated to the way he plays football?

And Baker is being managed by amateurs and should have been benched?

Maybe you in your infinite wisdom know way more than guys who get paid at the highest level? People who have been in football as players, coaches, scouts, for many years. Monken thirty. Freddie twenty plus.

But their amateurs?

Maybe listen to their pressers. Or, maybe that is Greek to you?

PM KOB and exchange your brilliant deductions. Another source whose vast knowledge is superior to the Browns staff. You guys can come with all the solutions and present them to Haslam. Because Dorsey, Kitchens, and Mayfield need to go and Haslam will be looking for bright minds like yours and K.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 07:02 PM
So when Nick Saban, Tom Brady, Cam Newton all walked out of interviews were they not leaders of their team? Anyone remember Jim Mcmahon blowing a boogie on a reporter?

We can go on and on, even outside of football

bobby bonilla told a reporter to "shove it as far as he can stick it"

Ronda Rousey hung up on a an interviewer asking her a personal question

Tyson Fury walked out of an interview

I remember LeBron walking out of a press conference game 1 when JR had his blunder.

I don't recall a lot of guys calling out Lebron....

I also keep hearing guys saying he needs to be like Tom Brady, well....he was I guess.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 07:07 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
I listen to 850 a.m and the Really Big Show from time to time. I switch off when 'Hammer' is spouting nonsense (which is a lot of the time). I also listen to 92.3 .... but before the draft Grossi really didn't label Baker as Johnny II. He didn't knock the pick. And Grossi was very quickly very positive about Baker's play on the field. He's always had a bit of a thing about his maturity which I understand even if I don't share the same deep concern (I think it's part of who he is). I don't mind Grossi at all - he's overly negative sometimes and I take half of what he says with a grain of salt. But mostly he seems like a life long suffering fan. It'd be like having Rasta or one of the negative posteres here being the beat reporter.


Grossi ABSOLUTELY called him Johnny Manziel. He wrote an entire article about him being Johnny - which was so offbase that Nathan Zegura went ape crap on Grossi on the air afterwards, and it started a big thing between them. This was before the draft.

FYI, Baker PLAYS nothing like Johnny did on the field, either. They have two completely different styles. So, was he trying to compare him to the football player, or the person? Me thinks Grossi was tryin to compare him to Johnny as an drunk.

The dude then said "If the Browns make the mistake of drafting Baker I will retire". He called him a horrible pick, a mistake, and on draft night he was on the radio show disparaging the entire team and Dorsey for picking him. I was listening, he did.

Quote:
And Grossi was very quickly very positive about Baker's play on the field
He had to be. Do you really think the network he worked for which is the flagship of the Browns wouldn't have said "cool it"? Also, the way Baker played last year, if he didn't, he would have looked horrible as he was way off.

Quote:
But mostly he seems like a life long suffering fan
Grossi, is not. He has a beef with the Browns every since he was demoted at the dealer, and has been negative ever since towards them. Its personal for him. He is going to disparage the team as much as he can.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 07:19 PM
Quote:
but before the draft Grossi really didn't label Baker as Johnny II.



Perhaps this will jog the memory...

https://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland/post...t-lazy-analysis
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 07:50 PM
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
So when Nick Saban, Tom Brady, Cam Newton all walked out of interviews were they not leaders of their team? Anyone remember Jim Mcmahon blowing a boogie on a reporter?

We can go on and on, even outside of football

bobby bonilla told a reporter to "shove it as far as he can stick it"

Ronda Rousey hung up on a an interviewer asking her a personal question

Tyson Fury walked out of an interview

I remember LeBron walking out of a press conference game 1 when JR had his blunder.

I don't recall a lot of guys calling out Lebron....

I also keep hearing guys saying he needs to be like Tom Brady, well....he was I guess.



With the exception of 'blowing a boogie on a reporter' and really stepping over the line as far as safety and common decency goes...

The reason Tom Brady, Saban, etc. can throw 'tude at a reporter and it's fine because they have the credibility.

1. They don't have reputation of spouting off
2. They are winners. There's a huge difference between winners and losers spouting off.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 08:03 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
...but before the draft Grossi really didn't label Baker as Johnny II. He didn't knock the pick.


saywhat

Grossi lazily compared Baker to Manziel for months leading up to the draft. Grossi even fought with Robert Klemko about the in-depth piece Klemko did on Baker to the point Klemko hung up on him during the interview.

Grossi also proclaimed he would immediately retire if the Browns drafted Mayfield. He trashed Mayfield all the way up to and immediately after the draft.

Tony has been disgruntled since the PD "re-assigend" him from the Browns beat in the early 90s due to his reporting.

Grossi's time has long passed and now he's shilling his pay-to-read subscription based service on WKNR. He's a clown.

Unfortunately, Baker took the bait.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 08:09 PM
I didn't see or hear any of that - or I don't remember it. By the time I remember hearing Grossi talk about QB's - he wasn't saying awful things about Baker. But dang, I could just be forgetting. It was a long time ago and life with kids is hectic! . . . I was one that wanted Baker - so yeah, I am in 100% agreement that he's nothing like JM in any way shape or form.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 08:11 PM
I stand corrected. As I said, I don't remember that at all. It's a terrible comparison for sure. Since I liked BM I would figure I'd recall that ... but my memory is obviously much .... hang on, what was I saying?
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 08:19 PM
It's still no reason for Baker to act the way he does. I'm pretty sure Grossi was predicting big things for the Browns this year in large part because of Baker. In other words, he changed his mind as new evidence was made available.

It pains me to defend Grossi here, but he's entitled to an opinion. The thing he should never have done is wrote about Mayfield at the airport, credit cards, etc., but it's time to move past that as well.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 08:22 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
So when Nick Saban, Tom Brady, Cam Newton all walked out of interviews were they not leaders of their team? Anyone remember Jim Mcmahon blowing a boogie on a reporter?

We can go on and on, even outside of football

bobby bonilla told a reporter to "shove it as far as he can stick it"

Ronda Rousey hung up on a an interviewer asking her a personal question

Tyson Fury walked out of an interview

I remember LeBron walking out of a press conference game 1 when JR had his blunder.

I don't recall a lot of guys calling out Lebron....

I also keep hearing guys saying he needs to be like Tom Brady, well....he was I guess.



With the exception of 'blowing a boogie on a reporter' and really stepping over the line as far as safety and common decency goes...

The reason Tom Brady, Saban, etc. can throw 'tude at a reporter and it's fine because they have the credibility.

1. They don't have reputation of spouting off
2. They are winners. There's a huge difference between winners and losers spouting off.
I call BS on that man. credibility has nothing to do with respect. If so, why would they need to walk off? who would be questioning them because of their credibility? They are credible.

I don't get how that has to do with anything? So because hasn't won a SB he should be talked over, dismissed, and have articles written about him being a bad pick and bad person? Nah, that don't fly.

I don't like he walked out, but to say "he needs to grow up" or "he needs to be more mature while comparing him to someone that walked out is dumb.

Hes a human being, that feels like this writer is attacking him personally (which he has in the past) and is now trying to bait him into saying something he can use against him - hes lucky he didn't get punched.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 08:23 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
I didn't see or hear any of that - or I don't remember it. By the time I remember hearing Grossi talk about QB's - he wasn't saying awful things about Baker. But dang, I could just be forgetting. It was a long time ago and life with kids is hectic! . . . I was one that wanted Baker - so yeah, I am in 100% agreement that he's nothing like JM in any way shape or form.
Someone posted a link to his article comparing him to Johnny, and a few times on RBS he would talk about how he felt he drank too much and was a troublemaker, etc., and said he will cause the same troubles Johnny did.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 08:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
It's still no reason for Baker to act the way he does. I'm pretty sure Grossi was predicting big things for the Browns this year in large part because of Baker. In other words, he changed his mind as new evidence was made available.

It pains me to defend Grossi here, but he's entitled to an opinion. The thing he should never have done is wrote about Mayfield at the airport, credit cards, etc., but it's time to move past that as well.
Actually, he is not. He is a beat writer - his job is to report news and facts about the league - not his opinion.

Now, if he wants to be a columnist, that's different. But as the beat writer, his job is to be unbiased from opinion.

he was interjecting his opinion with his questions.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 08:34 PM
Bake is inmature .. duh ..

Walking off .... *LOL* ... who gives a crud ... what a joke dissin him for that is ...

He’s a human being going through an extremely rough patch and was fed up and waked away ... Wipeee doooo ..

Not defending bake here ... it was a very inmature move on his part ... just add it to the list ... u guys are acting like he pulled the plug on someone’s life support ... but then again ... your frustrated just like Bake ...

What he’s done/said that has really peed at least me off ... “i didn’t think this would be that hard” or sumptin along those lines ... dudes suppose to be a hard worker and dedicated to his craft ... Vers said all off season he was worried about Bake not working ... i blew it off based off Bakes “rep” of working hard ... well that one line by him tells me he didn’t take it seriously this off season ...

Hopefully he learned his lesson and can learn how to read D’s ... if not ... OH VEY ... here we go again!

Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 08:35 PM
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
It's still no reason for Baker to act the way he does. I'm pretty sure Grossi was predicting big things for the Browns this year in large part because of Baker. In other words, he changed his mind as new evidence was made available.

It pains me to defend Grossi here, but he's entitled to an opinion. The thing he should never have done is wrote about Mayfield at the airport, credit cards, etc., but it's time to move past that as well.
Actually, he is not. He is a beat writer - his job is to report news and facts about the league - not his opinion.

Now, if he wants to be a columnist, that's different. But as the beat writer, his job is to be unbiased from opinion.

he was interjecting his opinion with his questions.


Technically, Grossi is not a beat reporter. He writes a subscription based blog for WKNR and is an on-air "analyst" for them.
Posted By: Dave Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 08:42 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
It's still no reason for Baker to act the way he does. I'm pretty sure Grossi was predicting big things for the Browns this year in large part because of Baker. In other words, he changed his mind as new evidence was made available.

It pains me to defend Grossi here, but he's entitled to an opinion. The thing he should never have done is wrote about Mayfield at the airport, credit cards, etc., but it's time to move past that as well.
Actually, he is not. He is a beat writer - his job is to report news and facts about the league - not his opinion.

Now, if he wants to be a columnist, that's different. But as the beat writer, his job is to be unbiased from opinion.

he was interjecting his opinion with his questions.


Technically, Grossi is not a beat reporter. He writes a subscription based blog for WKNR and is an on-air "analyst" for them.



He is a reporter / analyst for ESPN-Cleveland and Sports Time Ohio. He's paid for his opinions on the Browns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Grossi
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 08:51 PM
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
So when Nick Saban, Tom Brady, Cam Newton all walked out of interviews were they not leaders of their team? Anyone remember Jim Mcmahon blowing a boogie on a reporter?

We can go on and on, even outside of football

bobby bonilla told a reporter to "shove it as far as he can stick it"

Ronda Rousey hung up on a an interviewer asking her a personal question

Tyson Fury walked out of an interview

I remember LeBron walking out of a press conference game 1 when JR had his blunder.

I don't recall a lot of guys calling out Lebron....

I also keep hearing guys saying he needs to be like Tom Brady, well....he was I guess.



With the exception of 'blowing a boogie on a reporter' and really stepping over the line as far as safety and common decency goes...

The reason Tom Brady, Saban, etc. can throw 'tude at a reporter and it's fine because they have the credibility.

1. They don't have reputation of spouting off
2. They are winners. There's a huge difference between winners and losers spouting off.
I call BS on that man. credibility has nothing to do with respect. If so, why would they need to walk off? who would be questioning them because of their credibility? They are credible.

I don't get how that has to do with anything? So because hasn't won a SB he should be talked over, dismissed, and have articles written about him being a bad pick and bad person? Nah, that don't fly.

I don't like he walked out, but to say "he needs to grow up" or "he needs to be more mature while comparing him to someone that walked out is dumb.

Hes a human being, that feels like this writer is attacking him personally (which he has in the past) and is now trying to bait him into saying something he can use against him - hes lucky he didn't get punched.


I may be splitting hairs, but let me be a little more clear.

Grossi is a doofus, and the question was totally stupid. I sympathize/empathize with Baker walking out... but at the same time I do wish he would be a bit more professional. Maybe a non-answer and then talking to everyone else vs storming off.

And then my post about comparing this to the likes of Brady, etc. The reason why THEY don't get grief when they do something like walk off or sound off on a reporter is because of their past performance and behavior.

I don't know if I'm helping to explain my viewpoint. I'm just getting sick of hearing about him giving 'tude (deserved or not) to a reporter while he's racking up TO's and really only has 1/2 of his rookie year that he can brag about.
Posted By: Spergon FTWynn Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 09:52 PM
Sometimes reporters have to ask questions that are obvious, because even though they and everyone else know the answer, they still need it to come out of the person's mouth. They need the soundbite.

The incident with Grossi wasn't that. He was purposely trying to get a particular answer out of Baker, to the point of actually interrupting him. He even tried to reform the question because he wasn't happy with Baker's response.

Grossi is a troll and nothing more. He's only around because news outlets and radio stations think readers take him seriously. Watching the Cleveland media come to his defense is hilarious too.

And this isn't me coming to Baker's defense. I like Baker a lot and still believe in the guy, but he has not been good this year, statistically he has been worse than his rookie season. Obviously it's not all on him, but he has been a bit of a disappointment so far. I'm not giving up on him like some have, but 2-5 backed up by bad stats, are exactly what they are.

I stopped listening to local radio, because it's just the same recycled takes over and over, sandwiched between hours of advertising. It's not good. I just get most of my stuff from here and twitter. The fact that ESPN Cleveland thinks they can charge people for some of their content is absolutely laughable.

The local media that cover the team are downright awful. They constantly get scooped by national reporters. Their job is to literally just retweet Schefter or Rappoport or Glazer, etc..

They don't bring anything to the table and I still scratch my head as to why they are even around? To troll fans? I don't get it.

I don't, and never have followed Grossi (despite being blocked by him lol)or MKC. I stopped following Ruiter years ago because he acts like one of the coolest jobs is some horrible burden, because the team isn't great.

You never want to see your team's QB just storm out of a presser, but I really don't blame him for doing it. Honestly I hope he wins just so he shoves it right back in their faces.
Posted By: Dave Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 10:15 PM
Quote:
He was purposely trying to get a particular answer out of Baker, to the point of actually interrupting him. He even tried to reform the question because he wasn't happy with Baker's response.


Grossi's question was about what seemed to be a "lack of urgency" on the downs BEFORE the penalty that Mayfield was going on about. A lot of time ran off the clock between snaps. The clock had gone from 2:19 to :28 before the penalty occurred. When it was clear that Mayfield either misunderstood the question (or chose to misunderstand it), Grossi tried to re-state it. That's when Baker said "stop saying 'but' " and went on to say Grossi didn't know because he had never played the game. At this point Grossi is angry too (IMO), and it results in the accusatory "So you were happy with the results of the drive?" question/retort.

My take is that Mayfield has a hard-on for Grossi and was looking for an excuse to go off on him.
Posted By: Spergon FTWynn Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 10:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Dave
Quote:
He was purposely trying to get a particular answer out of Baker, to the point of actually interrupting him. He even tried to reform the question because he wasn't happy with Baker's response.


Grossi's question was about what seemed to be a "lack of urgency" on the downs BEFORE the penalty that Mayfield was going on about. A lot of time ran off the clock between snaps. The clock had gone from 2:19 to :28 before the penalty occurred. When it was clear that Mayfield either misunderstood the question (or chose to misunderstand it), Grossi tried to re-state it. That's when Baker said "stop saying 'but' " and went on to say Grossi didn't know because he had never played the game. At this point Grossi is angry too (IMO), and it results in the accusatory "So you were happy with the results of the drive?" question/retort.

My take is that Mayfield has a hard-on for Grossi and was looking for an excuse to go off on him.


Wonder why a player would not like a reporter who said they'd quit their job if said player was drafted by the team they are being paid to cover. It just makes no sense.
Posted By: Dave Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 10:35 PM
Sarcasm noted. I get that too, but the original question about the apparent lack of urgency (poor clock management) on the final drive of the half was a legitimate one.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 11:16 PM
Originally Posted By: Dave
Sarcasm noted. I get that too, but the original question about the apparent lack of urgency (poor clock management) on the final drive of the half was a legitimate one.


It wasn't a legitimate question. It was as clear as day why they weren't rushing. Hell, Romo even called out the reason why.
Posted By: Dave Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 11:36 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: Dave
Sarcasm noted. I get that too, but the original question about the apparent lack of urgency (poor clock management) on the final drive of the half was a legitimate one.


It wasn't a legitimate question. It was as clear as day why they weren't rushing. Hell, Romo even called out the reason why.


Here's the play by play on the final drive:

1st & 10 at CLE 16

(2:19 - 2nd) (Shotgun) N.Chubb right tackle to CLV 23 for 7 yards (D.Shelton, J.Jones).

(2:00 - 2nd) Two-Minute Warning

2nd & 3 at CLE 23

(2:00 - 2nd) (Shotgun) N.Chubb right tackle to CLV 23 for no gain (J.Collins, L.Guy).

3rd & 3 at CLE 23

(1:15 - 2nd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short right to O.Beckham to CLV 27 for 4 yards (S.Gilmore).

1st & 10 at CLE 27

(0:51 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short left to J.Landry to CLV 39 for 12 yards (J.Collins, J.Jones).

1st & 10 at CLE 39

(0:32 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked at CLV 29 for -10 yards (A.Butler).

(0:28 - 2nd) Timeout #3 by CLV at 00:28.

2nd & 20 at CLE 29

(0:28 - 2nd) (Shotgun) PENALTY on CLV-J.McCray, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CLV 29 - No Play.

2nd & 25 at CLE 24

(0:28 - 2nd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short left to D.Hilliard to CLV 30 for 6 yards (J.Collins, J.McCourty).

3rd & 19 at CLE 30

(0:01 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short left to D.Hilliard to CLV 33 for 3 yards (J.Collins).

*************************

If we weren't trying to score (whether a FG or TD) before the half, why did we put the ball in the air 5 times, including downs starting at :28 and :01? If we were trying to score, why didn't we do a better job of maximizing the available time earlier in the possession?
Posted By: JulesDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 10/31/19 11:37 PM
j/c


Baker is giving Grossi, just like he does Cowherd, exactly what they want. He takes the bait like a hungry fish every time. That isn’t being cool, edgy, passionate, etc. That’s being a sucker. It just causes them to keep pushing him, because they know he will always react. They love it, he plays right into their hands.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 01:37 AM
Originally Posted By: JulesDawg
j/c


Baker is giving Grossi, just like he does Cowherd, exactly what they want. He takes the bait like a hungry fish every time. That isn’t being cool, edgy, passionate, etc. That’s being a sucker. It just causes them to keep pushing him, because they know he will always react. They love it, he plays right into their hands.
bingo .. Grossi gets more twitter action conveniently when he’s promoting a new business endeavor
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 10:54 AM
Grossi should have saved that question for Kitchens, by that point of the game, baker only knows what the current play called is.
Posted By: CBFAN19 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 11:51 AM
J/C

Looking at Grossi's quotes on Twitter after the San Francisco game last night, I believe he wants to hang Garoppolo's sweaty jock above his bed. It's also clear that he's going out of his way to praise the Niners and their QB as a way of slamming the Browns and theirs. The Niners deserve credit for what they've done, no doubt and the Browns certainly deserve criticism, but I wonder if Grossi has ever tweeted so much about another team throughout a game.

Sour grapes!
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 11:52 AM
The fact of the matter is Mayfield acted like a complete arse. It doesn't matter what Grossi said, Mayfield is a PROFESSIONAL and he is expected to act as such.

Look I may have been a bit harsh on Mayfield, but im not real happy he done what he done. I really hope he doesn't do it again.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 12:33 PM
Quote:
Grossi's question was about what seemed to be a "lack of urgency" on the downs
two weeks prior Grossi was on air and in writing beating and smashing Freddie for being aggressive at the half against SEA. he bashed them for trying to score twice.

Then, their next game, hes not bashing them for being conservative and not wanting to give the ball back to NE. . . . Which is it?

Quote:
My take is that Mayfield has a hard-on for Grossi and was looking for an excuse to go off on him.


From Tony Grossi himself:

" It’s a fact that I was outspoken against the drafting of Mayfield. Some of the stuff I wrote – and said -- before the 2018 draft … was not pretty. Can’t take it back. "

The dude did everything he could to compare him to Johnny, not just on the field either - he more than once hinted that Baker was a problem off the field (and I am not talking about attitude).

Grossi:

"Our only interaction was in group interview sessions, and he was always respectful. Sometimes he added some playful banter, which became uncomfortable."

So "playful banter" was uncomfortable? Dude is trying to play a victim.

Grossi:

Quote:
At the appropriate times, I inquired to the PR department about one-on-one time with Mayfield. Nothing came of them. I was never sure if he actually received these requests or if there was an understanding that he would never do them.

Fast forward to this year’s preseason. The joint practice sessions in Indiana. I had a story idea about Mayfield’s jersey No. 6 and wanted to ask him about it away from the media group. I waited for the session to end, approached him and asked if he could take a couple questions privately.

“Ain’t happenin’,” he said coldly, not breaking stride.

Again, message received.

I reported this exchange to a few club officials – one very high up the food chain – and nothing came of it.
So, you can see - Tony has an issue with Baker because Baker wont give him 1-1 time. Plain and simple. And why does Tony feel like he is supposed to get 1-1 time with him? he "reported this to club officials"? Who is the soft one here?
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 12:35 PM
J/c

I think both Baker and Tony are being peevish and unprofessional, and it probably started with Tony’s remarks when Baker was in the draft process. However, Baker has to KNOW not to take the bait ... you can be subdued with your comments, but you can’t be a jerk
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 12:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
The fact of the matter is Mayfield acted like a complete arse. It doesn't matter what Grossi said, Mayfield is a PROFESSIONAL and he is expected to act as such.

Look I may have been a bit harsh on Mayfield, but im not real happy he done what he done. I really hope he doesn't do it again.


Have to say I am shocked at your take on this. I know you normally have Baker's back - what changed?
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 12:43 PM
Honestly, I have no idea why everyone is so concerned about what took place between Grossi and Baker. And why what Grossi did he's getting a pass because "he's just doing his job."

Several high profile athletes have walked out of press conferences including Tom Brady, Cam Newton, and Lebron James.

They also fail to mention that Baker also answered questions for several minutes until idiot Grossi decided to ask stupid questions to target Baker.

People seem to forget the history between Grossi and Baker.

I have no qualms about Baker walking out because of who it happened with and how it happened. This isn't anything like a Ryan Leaf blow up.

I mean does a NASCAR driver like being asked if he's happy with the results of the race after he wrecked his car on the final?

Does a surgeon like being asked if he's happy his patient died on the table?

What about a woman being asked if she's happy with her miscarriage?

I mean seriously folks....
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 12:47 PM
Hater because he was rejected. If you are BM, do you even consider doing the private article for Grossi? Had he been fair and positive with BM previously? Grossi is on ignore. Reported him multiple times to generate more stink for him. Media blackmail? Play ball with me or you get yours. I get BM not wanting to give that treatment to him.

Many people who cry about being treated fairly, or badly like this, don't want fair treatment, but special treatment. If BM gives this 1 on 1, how many more result?

Sorry. Grossi can ask. Just seems like nasty for everybody Browns organization, and I don't think you are required to cater to the likes of Grossi.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 12:51 PM
It's very understandable. Those that don't like Baker and think he's a punk and still hold bitterness that he beat their beloved Buckeyes and disrespected them by planting the flag are going to take any negative and pour gasoline on it to make it much bigger than it is. Period. They'll blame a shovel pass where baker tosses the ball to JL in under a second and claim Baker it was his fault. They'll blame offensive penalties and drops where the ball hits two hands of the WR on Baker. There's not many but there is some.

Then the Baker fan boys are probably going to make light of anything and everything Baker does. There's not many of those either.

Most are going to be in the middle - would I prefer Baker didn't comment about Duke? Yes. Would I prefer Baker didn't give the media fuel by walking off after Grossi's question? Yes ... But in the grand scheme of things I don't think it's all that. Play better on Sundays and this noise and distraction will slowly cease.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 12:52 PM
I wonder if Grossi ever apologized for the things he said pre-draft? Can't take it back, but you can definitely try to mend the relationship.

I'd love to see the press conference where Grossi apologized to Baker.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 12:55 PM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
I wonder if Grossi ever apologized for the things he said pre-draft? Can't take it back, but you can definitely try to mend the relationship.

I'd love to see the press conference where Grossi apologized to Baker.


Great point - "What I said before the draft is well documented, and I'd like to go on record and say I was 100% wrong" .... probably would go a long way to restoring some normality.... but honestly, who cares. I said earlier I like to listen to Tony most of the time. I don't think he's right or has inside sources or anything, but I have no issue listening to him. But do I care about this and whether he patches things up with BM. Not one bit to be honest.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 12:59 PM
None of that is really the issue. The issue is when Baker does something like that, it takes energy away from the task at hand. Now guys are paying attention to social media. Now other guys are being asked about it in pressers. Guys get frustrated by it. Energy and focus is finite. They need all of it to go toward winning. But it's being used up on things that were avoidable by showing a little maturity. This is what people are missing.

Who cares if he was justified or not. Freddie and Baker and everyone need to put the Browns first and focus on the things that need to be done to win. And what Baker did doesn't help that cause.

It's not about Baker. It's not about Grossi. It's about the Browns and putting the Browns first.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 01:31 PM
A lot of players are on social media these days. Probably most. Being on social media isn't a problem. It's just how things are these days.

I actually think Baker showed maturity by walking away rather than knocking Grossi upside the head. There's a lot of different ways that could have went down. Baker chose the high road.

Baker is 100% team oriented and the entire team has his back. I don't think this is a distraction but the media will want you to believe it is so. Stay tuned.
Posted By: jeepnstein Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 01:33 PM
I grow tired of "journalists" who try to make every story about them. Self-promoting egotistic bags of wind, that's what they are. I, for one, don't care how the players or coaches treat them.

This will all blow over when the Browns win a few games. "Journalists" just go whichever way the wind blows.

I'm more interested in how Mayfield weathers the storm he's facing on the field. That will depend on what passes for a game plan in Denver.
Posted By: s003apr Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 01:50 PM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Honestly, I have no idea why everyone is so concerned about what took place between Grossi and Baker. And why what Grossi did he's getting a pass because "he's just doing his job."

Several high profile athletes have walked out of press conferences including Tom Brady, Cam Newton, and Lebron James.

They also fail to mention that Baker also answered questions for several minutes until idiot Grossi decided to ask stupid questions to target Baker.

People seem to forget the history between Grossi and Baker.

I have no qualms about Baker walking out because of who it happened with and how it happened. This isn't anything like a Ryan Leaf blow up.

I mean does a NASCAR driver like being asked if he's happy with the results of the race after he wrecked his car on the final?

Does a surgeon like being asked if he's happy his patient died on the table?

What about a woman being asked if she's happy with her miscarriage?

I mean seriously folks....


I think everyone is understanding of a bad press conference when players are immediately interviewed following an ugly loss. That is when 99% of these types of angry press conferences happen.

But Baker is clearly going after a reporter that he has had a record of going after in the past and he is doing it in a mid week interview.

It comes off as immature, it comes off as petty, it comes off as spitting down on someone. It IS a clear demonstration of how insecure Baker feels.

Just like this board, 50% of the people in the locker room will have no problem with this behavior, but 50% of his teammates are also going to internally question is judgement, emotional intelligence, and composure, and that is going to effect their motivation and ability to follow him as a supposed leader.

Baker is not mature enough to put the weight of this team on his shoulders, and the people around him that are defending him are actually setting him up for failure. He needs someone else to bear the burden of leadership until he is ready for it, and he needs friends, family, and mentors that are committed to being straight with him about his behavior and want to help him improve, not an echo chamber of hanger-ons that won't tell him what he needs to hear.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 02:03 PM
You missed my premise. Focus, attention, and energy is now being taken away from where it needs to be. That's not how you win games.
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 02:23 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
You missed my premise. Focus, attention, and energy is now being taken away from where it needs to be. That's not how you win games.


I doubt that Baker gave it one more thought after he walked off. The other players know what an ass Grossi is and I don't think it bothered them at all.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 02:45 PM
Everybody speaks as if they have some kind of expertise on the leadership and maturity subject, truth be told, we have a sliver of the information.

We are not in the locker room.
We don't know Baker's leadership skills and the role he takes behind closed doors, on the practice field, or even game day for that matter.
We assume something trivial is some big distraction.

I have to pick on you Rish, sorry, you've seemed very level-headed throughout this whole season, but your post is just an echo of what a bunch of people keep saying... I have to ask... Team-wide, how much focus, attention, and energy do you think has been spent on this Grossi thing five minutes after it happened?? I'm sure there were some attaboys, a little laughter, who knows, maybe even a few players on the 53 that rolled their eyes and took exception to it. To me, it has ZERO bearing on how well we prepare for the next opponent. It's just a tired ploy that fans and writers use to create non-stories and narratives out of thin air.

Maybe, just maybe, Baker has been the dude that pats a player on the back when he screws up and says "we'll get 'em next time". Maybe, as a leader, he hasn't really held others accountable. Maybe others will see the frustration, see him come out with more focus, determination, and a scowl on his face during the week, and think "Wow, we need to put our heads down and work".

Fact is: we don't know, we're not there. When some player comes out and says as much, or something becomes evident that Baker is weak in his leadership role -- let me know. History says the opposite is true.

AS far as Tony and Baker. Tony said some terrible things about the kid... and stuck to them for too long because he wanted to be right. That's what all these dudes do. At times, until they look like fools (see Cowherd). Baker has taken some jabs at him from time to time. Every one of them humorous. It had grown to a point where it seemed to be entertaining to Tony and the media room as a whole.

Tony crossed the line with a stupid question (yes, the stupidest), after a tough loss, and got served some medicine. Simple as that.
Posted By: jeepnstein Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 02:46 PM
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
You missed my premise. Focus, attention, and energy is now being taken away from where it needs to be. That's not how you win games.


I doubt that Baker gave it one more thought after he walked off. The other players know what an ass Grossi is and I don't think it bothered them at all.


I don't care if they have a naked carboard cutout of Grossi in the locker room and he loses an article of clothing with every win. Errr, that might explain the current problem though.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 02:47 PM
^ THAT'S hilarious! ^
Posted By: bonefish Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 03:00 PM
Exactly what I would have written.


I agree 100%.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 04:16 PM
I could not disagree more. The logic you are using..."we are not there, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors"...can be made for any topic at any time about anything with the team. And if that's the case, let's close down the message board. There's nothing more to discuss. We can just say "we're not there" and move on.

But you are using it here as a convenience to explain away what I feel is a very pertinent point. It matters where your energy and focus is. Why do you think Belichick mumbles through pressers? Why do you think Brady never says anything of substance? Because they don't dedicate any energy and focus to anything other than the task at hand.

The results speak for themselves for the Patriots...and the Browns.

This stuff matters. It does.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 04:54 PM
But you act like the energy and focus goes beyond the 30 seconds he spent telling Tony to take a hike. As if Baker is sitting alone somewhere trying to craft his next comeback to Tony rather than taking care of his duties as a QB.

I think BB mumbles through pressers because that is his personality. Wasn't Bill Walsh's, definitely wasn't Jimmy Johnson's - they won a few trophies. How 'bout Bill Parcels? Belichick's mentor? He yelled, argued, stormed off stage five times a season. Hard to imagine how he ever maintained the focus and energy to coach all of those great teams and SuperBowl winners, eh?
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 05:04 PM
We can agree to disagree.

But I'll leave you with this. It did go beyond the 30 seconds. Baker was so agitated by it he took to Twitter to explain himself. Again, energy and focus being diverted toward things that don't help the Browns win.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 05:07 PM

It doesn't matter at all. Not one bit.

What matters is preparation and execution.

Press conferences are obligatory. They are tolerated and then forgotten.

What matters is what takes place at the facilities. What is seen from film study on the opposition. What is planned against them.

And then how that is implemented in practice for the game.

The last step is how the players carry that over to the game.

Belichick mumbling in pressers?? Because he sees it as a total waste of time. He despises it. Treats the reporters like the fools they are in most cases from the stupid questions that are asked.

You are reaching for something that is not there.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 05:12 PM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

You are reaching for something that is not there.



I don't think I am. Actually I'm surprised to be getting so much resistance to this notion.

Again, agree to disagree.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 05:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
We can agree to disagree.

But I'll leave you with this. It did go beyond the 30 seconds. Baker was so agitated by it he took to Twitter to explain himself. Again, energy and focus being diverted toward things that don't help the Browns win.

No sweat. We're all welcome to our opinions.

As far as the Tweet, it was fairly immediate and straight to the point. He created the issue by walking out, he closed the book on how he feels about it with the Tweet. That's actually part of the reason why I was sure it wouldn't be an issue going forward.

To each his own brother. On to the Broncos.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/01/19 06:23 PM
Agreed.

I don't think any energy is focused on Grossi. I would imagine exactly as you said and I'm not sure anyone in that organization is on Grossi's side or is thinking please Baker shut up. Probably quite the opposite.

And also just a comment, Baker is definitely mature enough to put the team on his back and win games. He did it last year.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Baker Cont. - 11/02/19 05:35 PM

Baker's numbers are what they are. No hiding from them. They are not good.

However, I think you have to look at each game individually.

Then I think it is more appropriate to speculate on how and if his performance will or will not improve.

Over the time he has played as a Brown and his college career. I have seen Baker perform at an extremely high level. That was no fluke or accident.

You can not accomplish what he has done and ignore those facts.

So what has happened?

Plenty. Most of it not good. We can debate the problems. Place the blame wherever. The reality is each game carried it's own problems. When you lump it all together you lose sight of what really took place.

Now at 2-5 the team as a whole needs to play better football. The coaches need to coach better.

Baker has been a part of the problem.

But I see no reason at all that he can not play the way he has played in the past.

He has a very good arm. He throws with anticipation and touch. He has proven in the past to be accurate. He is a young player learning to play at a different level. It is not something that happens overnight. It is a process of development. From all that has been written about Baker. There has never been a claim he doesn't work hard.

So with that in place. Baker, the offense, and players need to be in sync. That is Freddie and staff. It is up to them to prepare the team. It worked in the second half of last year. This year is the third head coach and OC since the beginning of last year.

They need to figure it out. It is up to Freddie and his staff to fix the problems. Talent has been added from last year. There is no reason why this offense should be beating themselves.

Stop the bleeding. You can not average 10 penalties a game.
You can not turn the ball over at the rate they are doing it. Correct the penalties. Block better. Catch the ball. Protect the ball. Don't force throws into coverage. Throw the ball accurately. If the play is not there; do a Brady and throw it away.

These are correctable mistakes. In the past the Browns did not have the talent to compete. That is not the case today.

There is no reason why this team can not turn it around.

If they fail. Then it must be analyzed and steps taken to find the solutions.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 01:07 PM
J/C

Baker is scared. He hesitated yesterday on the last play, to go throw the check down to Jarvis (which was late BTW).

Time to rebuild.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 01:46 PM
j/c...

Posted By: 1oldMutt Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 01:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



Looks like a bloated toad
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 01:54 PM
Lol he looks like a deadbeat uncle
Posted By: 1oldMutt Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 02:00 PM
Most likely he looks like a guy who thought the NFL was gonna be a piece of cake. Have a dose of reality Baker...
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 03:42 PM
He looks like Columbo.


He shaved half his mustache before coming out for the presser. He had some crappy Hulk Hogan wannabe fu-manchu going during the game.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 03:48 PM
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
He looks like Columbo.


He shaved half his mustache before coming out for the presser. He had some crappy Hulk Hogan wannabe fu-manchu going during the game.
very odd to be honest ... it’s like he’s trying to have a persona because he’s not even sure who he is anymore
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 04:05 PM
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
He looks like Columbo.


He shaved half his mustache before coming out for the presser. He had some crappy Hulk Hogan wannabe fu-manchu going during the game.


I actually think that he had eye-black finishing off the 'stache.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 04:08 PM
That is even dumber than having actually grown the Hulk Hogan.... and, it also shows just how much he ISN'T focused on his job.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 04:10 PM
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
That is even dumber than having actually grown the Hulk Hogan.... and, it also shows just how much he ISN'T focused on his job.



I was told he is focused on his job and that all the distractions only last for about 30 seconds. And his team loves it.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 04:22 PM
Just think about this:

We traded for Tyrod Taylor, Ok

This guy for his career is:

61.9% completion rate
9.536 passing yards
53 TD passes
20 INT
a career Qb rating of 89.6 (Might as well be 90)

We literally gave up on a veteran QB who was selected to the Pro Bowl two times in the past 3 years, who was/is a career 90's rated passer (Which puts him in the above average NFL QB tier) easily the best Qb we have had here in Cleveland since Kosar...for what?

"Oh we have to see our 1st rd QB play" "Oh Baker, Baker he is so great"

This right here is the absolute MORONIC reason why this team sucks year after year after year.

Please keep in mind that the previous week against the Saints, Taylor posted a 94.6 QBR, 73.3% completion rate on 22/30 pass attempts, threw a TD, and ran 26 yards.

I mean Judas Priest what more could you want!

We made a HUGE error in not putting Taylor back in after the Jets game. Absolute stupid decision. the only reason Taylor isn't starting now is because he has Phillip Rivers in front of him, pretty hard to bench a guy that will be in the Hall of Fame.

The Browns NEEDED Tyrod Taylor, we are a 4 win ballclub right now with him at QB. We would have had a real chance at the plyoffs.

God im so sick and tired of these peabrains running our team, they couldn't think their way out of a wet paper bag...replacing a two times Pro Bowl QB and career 90's rated NFL passer with a unproven rookie whoi wasn't ready is one of the most moronic decisions in the history of the NFL.

Don't give them the nonesense that Mayfield wasn't given a chance to win the starting job, yes he was, both Haley and Jackson agreed that Taylor was better than him, had Mayfield been head and shoulders better and beat out Taylor in camp, he would have been the guy. Fact is Mayfield shouldn't have played until he could beat out Taylor.

I firmly believe we win 7 games last year with Taylor as our QB too, and we would be a 4-5 win team this year with Taylor and we would be working on an extension with Taylor as we speak.

Taylor gave us the best chance to win and get out of this quagmire and we peed it away in the wind. It makes ZERO sense to replace a career 90's rated passer with 2 Pro Bowls in 3 years with a bad Buffalo team with an unproven rookie who couldn't even beat him out in camp....only the Browns do this type of crap and its why we suck year after year.
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 04:42 PM
TT was done. he is still done.

I would be willing to bet a lot of money he doesn't start anywhere ever again.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 04:53 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
He looks like Columbo.


He shaved half his mustache before coming out for the presser. He had some crappy Hulk Hogan wannabe fu-manchu going during the game.
very odd to be honest ... it’s like he’s trying to have a persona because he’s not even sure who he is anymore


It was said on the radio that Baker sported a fu-manchu back in high school and had success. Guy is grasping for anything to give him a boost.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 04:54 PM
I am 100% certain you think and believe that.

Anyone else watched the performance of the team last year with Baker and TT and could see how vastly superior in nearly every facet of play Baker was.

It doesn't take career stats or long written posts. Anyone and everyone (other than you apparently) knows that Baker outplayed TT last year by a country mile .... and all that without any preseason or early season 1st team reps.
Posted By: 1oldMutt Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 05:01 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
He looks like Columbo.


He shaved half his mustache before coming out for the presser. He had some crappy Hulk Hogan wannabe fu-manchu going during the game.
very odd to be honest ... it’s like he’s trying to have a persona because he’s not even sure who he is anymore


It was said on the radio that Baker sported a fu-manchu back in high school and had success. Guy is grasping for anything to give him a boost.


Try a call to Manning or Montana or Marino or heck even Bernie Kosar! Pick their brains. These guys gotta love young QBs seeking advice.
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 05:12 PM
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
TT was done. he is still done.

I would be willing to bet a lot of money he doesn't start anywhere ever again.


TT was done because fans wanted the brand news shinny toy.

I liked TT and Haley,but I guess I was the only one in here.

Haley was right, Baker was not ready, he was/is not mature enough to handle success.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 05:17 PM
Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
TT was done. he is still done.

I would be willing to bet a lot of money he doesn't start anywhere ever again.


TT was done because fans wanted the brand news shinny toy.

I liked TT and Haley,but I guess I was the only one in here.

Haley was right, Baker was not ready, he was/is not mature enough to handle success.


That third sentence does seem to be right, but doesn't make the first 2 accurate.

Do you not even remember those Tyrod Taylor games? That offense makes the one we ran yesterday look like a well-oiled machine.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 05:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
He looks like Columbo.


He shaved half his mustache before coming out for the presser. He had some crappy Hulk Hogan wannabe fu-manchu going during the game.
very odd to be honest ... it’s like he’s trying to have a persona because he’s not even sure who he is anymore


It was said on the radio that Baker sported a fu-manchu back in high school and had success. Guy is grasping for anything to give him a boost.
Yeah, he’s trying anything ... and sometimes you can get into your own head. Instead of just ripping it and trusting himself, he’s patting the ball and hesitating.

I kind of expected him to struggle a bit early on this year, but he’s WAY worse than I imagined. It’s sad to think we may be looking for the one big piece once again
Posted By: Swish Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 05:25 PM
Yea, you lost me with the TT angle, bro.
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 06:13 PM
Originally Posted By: Swish
Yea, you lost me with the TT angle, bro.


TT was/is a competent QB that got caught in the middle of a coaching fight.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 06:20 PM
j/c...

Posted By: leadtheway Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 06:26 PM
he looks pudgy, pasty and looks like he's lost the will to live..a true clevelander
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 06:31 PM
When Tyrod was replaced in 2018 he was completing less than 50% of his passes. Baker, after replacing Tyrod completed 63.8%, of his passes.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2018.htm
Posted By: PastorMarc Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 07:15 PM
Baker will be fine ….
Posted By: SuperBrown Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 08:56 PM




Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
He looks like Columbo.
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 09:05 PM
Baker may never be able to eclipse 2018. Yes he may have peaked already
He cant handle the burden of putting a franchise on his shoulders
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 09:31 PM
I don't buy that, at all.
Honestly, I'm not privy to what he sees and doesn't see on the field, so it's all just guesswork in my opinion, but I feel that he is smart enough and talented enough and all that, but I think that he is unfortunately still at the point where he is thinking too much and not simply playing fast on instinct. I think that once he gets things down enough and is back to playing fast, things will take off.

Additionally, I don't think the rest of his offense helps him all that much. I am grossly underwhelmed by both Landry and OBJ... I cannot back this up with anything concrete, but I feel like they are not always on the same page as Baker. I think they and the other WR are not always where they are supposed to be. I think Callaway has returned to his old form of not being able to be counted on as having reliable hands. I think the OLine has been disastrous this year, despite the many protests that they are playing well, I do not agree, at all. They've had their moments, but overall they have been quite lackluster... especially when they continually choose to kill drives with penalties. I think our TEs have been marginal, and frequently more a source of penalties than contributing to progress. I think that the O is predictable when we pull Chubb and insert Hillyard.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 09:48 PM
I think that this offense has become far too complex, and has too many plays that make no sense. Players are lost/confused, and are thinking instead of playing.
Posted By: ExclDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 09:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



More like, "Browns fans at the start of the season" ... "Browns fans now".
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Baker Cont. - 11/04/19 09:56 PM
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
I think that this offense has become far too complex, and has too many plays that make no sense. Players are lost/confused, and are thinking instead of playing.


Which then begs the questions: Is is too complex, or too convoluted?
Is it perhaps just more a case of too much, too soon for the players attempting to execute it?


I can see the potential in the offense IF we get the execution down. I mean, you just have to look at the number of plays where we had large gains called back because of stupid penalties, or the number of otherwise decent drives killed by penalties that we couldn't overcome.

I want to rant that Freddie should stick with keeping it as simple as needed, but at the same time, the players need to make that leap and get up to speed.

I don't know the answers.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 12:59 AM
j/c...

Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 01:28 AM
Baker never read anything but Landry on that. I dare say that he may be developing Couch-esque tunnel vision.

That should have been a pick.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 01:52 AM
Anybody here ever play quarterback? Even in jr. high?
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 01:59 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Anybody here ever play quarterback? Even in jr. high?


If you're going to go that route, you have to apply it to every QB, not just Baker. Even the amateur fan knows what they are watching. It's confirmed through countless talking heads and video reviews littered throughout the interwebs.

One thing I will say which I think is one of the few positives and one small glimmer of hope related to Baker is that despite his shortcomings this year, the offense still seems to move the ball. This isn't a Kessler or Tyrod where you are begging them to throw the ball, consistently going three and out.

Just looking for some positive...
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 02:04 AM
He also didn't turn the ball over. That's a positive. Should've been picked twice, I think... but still.

I will say, though. I had to step away from the TV about Midway through the 3rd, and I think I counted 2 total well-thrown balls. On-time and on-target so the receiver could run. 2 total. Dude was not accurate at all.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 02:30 AM
I think he is pressing, trying to force things. It happens with a young QB.
Trading for obj was dumb, I said it then. We didn't need him.

Chemistry, it's so important.

Letting hillbilly Fred own this team was assinine, I said it then, too.
Gregg Williams had us playing with discipline.

How we doing now?
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 02:35 AM
Yeah, the hiring of FK has turned disastrous ... not just for this year, but because baker has really regressed and may be damaged goods
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 10:58 AM
I don't think he's damaged goods. He'll be fine, but this franchise isn't helping him at all. Not in the way of coaching, not in the way of blocking, not in ANY way.

That needs to change right away or perhaps as you suggest, we're going to lose more than just the season.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 11:20 AM
There's no way he's damaged goods. That's just D4L being D4L. But you do have to start wondering how high his ceiling is. And whether he can improve or not. And you have to question whether he has that it factor. He basically has no signature wins as a professional. We were told he has moxie and leadership and guys gravitate toward him. Have we seen that at any point with the Browns so far?

I keep going back to something...a QB with the It factor...regardles of his coach, the scheme, the protection, the players around him...is going to rise above and make a play to help his team win games. Baker just doesn't do that. Deshaun Watson does it. He did it in college and he does it in the pros. If Baker is going bad from the start of the game, he stays bad through the whole game and never rises up. If he gets into a rhythm early and the offense is flowing, he plays reasonably well. But he just doesn't put the team on his shoulders and lead them to wins. He has one signature win in college and essentially none in the pros.

I even mentioned this before the season as a concern. It was an opinion that was not received well. I haven't seen anything to change my mind. A QB with the It factor delivers against the Rams and Broncos. He had the ball late in both games. Plays were there.

Winners win.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 11:41 AM
I wouldn't say Baker doesn't do that. He put the team on his shoulders and won games several times last year.

The kid can make all the throws and he was reading defenses last season. People seem caught up on Baker regressing without asking themselves what's different.

To watch him last year and then think perhaps his ceiling isn't that high, I'm not buying it. There's a myriad of things that have changed from last year to this year.

Baker has played and excelled at being a quarterback his entire life. I don't believe "that's it" for him, but if you want to believe it to be so, I guess I can't stop you.

I mean the defense had surrendered the most points Denver had scored all season, and this with a first time quarterback at the helm. Everyone wants to be quick to jump all over Baker, but we aren't losing all these games because of him. It's going to take its toll on any quarterback.

The bigger problem with this franchise lies in the coaching and front office and even ownership. We could go over to the Dorsey thread to discuss, but that's an unpopular conversation.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 02:29 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



I'm glad that video got posted.

Look at Landry...yeah...he's open...at a point in his route that is 4 yards short of the 1st down...with a defender on him. As soon as Baker throws the ball, Landry cut up field to - presumably - get to the 1st down marker. Baker threw that ball to where he thought Landry was going with his route...right to where the LB was...making it look like a bad pass...they simply weren't on the same page...in the EIGHTH game of the year.

The author says to watch Odell...he's open. Wait...THAT'S the definition of open? The DB was right there with Odell. Baker has a cannon...but that's an easily-read, out route AT THE 1ST DOWN MARKER...that likely gets picked unless Baker trusts himself and everyone on the O to execute such that he can make a risky anticipation throw...requiring a level of trust and confidence that has yet to be seen this year.

Baker and Landry aren't on the same page...Baker and Odell arent on the same filed. These guys didn't forget how to throw and catch since last year.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 02:34 PM
If Landry continues his original direction instead of turning upfield, Baker hits him and he gets the 1st down. The field was cleared out in front of him had he kept running across
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 02:38 PM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
If Landry continues his original direction instead of turning upfield, Baker hits him and he gets the 1st down. The field was cleared out in front of him had he kept running across


Yep...and there's only Odell on that side...with a CB...and Odell is a very good blocker. Landry cut off the route...AND...the route he took would have required a near-impossible throw to complete. As you said, if he stays on the original, apparent route then that's a nice 3rd down play that gets a first and maybe a lot more. Instead, it goes down as a Baker throw that should have been intercepted.
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 06:45 PM
Mayfield is Andy Dalton 2.0
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 07:12 PM
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
If Landry continues his original direction instead of turning upfield, Baker hits him and he gets the 1st down. The field was cleared out in front of him had he kept running across


Yep...and there's only Odell on that side...with a CB...and Odell is a very good blocker. Landry cut off the route...AND...the route he took would have required a near-impossible throw to complete. As you said, if he stays on the original, apparent route then that's a nice 3rd down play that gets a first and maybe a lot more. Instead, it goes down as a Baker throw that should have been intercepted.


When I watch it a couple more times I can see why Jarvis made that cut but it was still a bad decision. I think he was trying to avoid the LB, but if he keeps going he either beats the LB or gets mugged for a PI call. Baker definitely had time to wait that extra second for him to clear the LB
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 07:14 PM
Probably one of the biggest mysteries for me is why Bakers mechanics are just so awful this year? Last year he was always keeping his feet moving in a way that he could set them quickly. It’s why he was able to complete some pretty ballsy throws on the move
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 07:32 PM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Anybody here ever play quarterback? Even in jr. high?


yes and my son did as well.
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 07:34 PM
Originally Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper
Mayfield is Andy Dalton 2.0


nah. he will be fine. he nees an offseason and a new QB coach
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 07:34 PM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Probably one of the biggest mysteries for me is why Bakers mechanics are just so awful this year? Last year he was always keeping his feet moving in a way that he could set them quickly. It’s why he was able to complete some pretty ballsy throws on the move


Coaching. He's lost confidence in OL from this year to last. Seeing ghosts. His own confidence is rattled. Pressing so he is second guessing himself.

Jake Burns did a nice breakdown from Baker last year to Baker this year (as of week 5) if interested in taking a look.



Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 07:36 PM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Probably one of the biggest mysteries for me is why Bakers mechanics are just so awful this year? Last year he was always keeping his feet moving in a way that he could set them quickly. It’s why he was able to complete some pretty ballsy throws on the move


I brought this up at the beginning of the year. someone messed with his mechanics and they are all over the place.

He looks like he is mimicking Brady too much vs just being who he was.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 08:22 PM
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Anybody here ever play quarterback? Even in jr. high?


yes and my son did as well.


And it's actually a fairly irrelevant question. Nothing actually prepares you for playing quarterback in the NFL except the NCAA. And often times the systems we're seeing run at the college level doesn't actually prepare you for the NFL.

When it comes to reading D's, especially post snap, usually nobody knows until you're thrown into the fire at the NFL level.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 08:25 PM
That sure seems like a lot of excuses for a player that's performing poorly.
Posted By: DaveyD Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 08:45 PM
Getting out of the huddle with less than 10 seconds on the play clock 3/4 of the game, doesn't help either.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 09:42 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
That sure seems like a lot of excuses for a player that's performing poorly.

There is a fine line between an excuse and an explanation... and it often depends on what a person wants to hear.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 09:57 PM
I think a lot of it has to do with credibility. A coach doesn't make you, "less accurate". He doesn't make "your footwork worse".

I understand that you can devise a scheme a QB isn't comfortable with. But if people think you can go into your second season by using a very limited playbook and reading one side of the field like he did last year, that's not very realistic.

The film was there and you either expand your O or you fail. Seems either way we failed but the playbook had to be expanded. At that point, the QB you drafted either grows or he stagnates.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 10:19 PM
Quote:
I understand that you can devise a scheme a QB isn't comfortable with. But if people think you can go into your second season by using a very limited playbook and reading one side of the field like he did last year, that's not very realistic.

The film was there and you either expand your O or you fail. Seems either way we failed but the playbook had to be expanded. At that point, the QB you drafted either grows or he stagnates.

Just to play devil's advocate... why not? Mayfield had some of his biggest games in the back half of last season, what is a defense going to learn in the off-season that those defenses couldn't have learned from the first 5-6 weeks of film?

I would also ask the question then that IF Mayfield was so limited last year and only using half the field and making one read and getting the ball out quick... and it was working... why go to an offense that asked him to stand in the pocket every freakin' play and burp the baby for 3.5 seconds waiting for guys to sprint down the field?

Sure, add a few things, throw in a little more complexity, but to say "You had success this way last year but next year, you have to be like Peyton Manning"... that's at LEAST as big a risk of just trying to do what worked last year.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 10:36 PM
Agreed. The Ravens had success with Lamar running the ball last year. Clearly he can’t make a career of that and would need to get better in other areas. So what has Harbaugh done? He kept a lot of what Lamar is already good at and built him up from there.

It makes no sense to sacrifice wins at the expense of tryin to develop a QB. This is why the Ravens are whoopin people
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/05/19 10:40 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I think a lot of it has to do with credibility. A coach doesn't make you, "less accurate". He doesn't make "your footwork worse".

I


No, but a coach if doing their job will make sure you keep up with the basics like your mechanics that impact your abilities. Sometimes a young player has to be reminded and kept in check especially if you’ve got a guy who made a college career based on a more raw talent.
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 12:03 AM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Anybody here ever play quarterback? Even in jr. high?


yes and my son did as well.


And it's actually a fairly irrelevant question. Nothing actually prepares you for playing quarterback in the NFL except the NCAA. And often times the systems we're seeing run at the college level doesn't actually prepare you for the NFL.

When it comes to reading D's, especially post snap, usually nobody knows until you're thrown into the fire at the NFL level.


I agree 100%

Except... what these kids are learning at age 12 is so much different than what I learned at age 12 especially from reading the field and a throwing mechanics standpoint.

At age 12 they started teaching my son the fundamentals of the triangle stance and throwing in a J and the intricate details of a throwing motion. what to do with the football when you feel the pressure. when to get rid of the ball etc.

As a freshman he had pre-snap reads:
they teach to throw in a box how to read coverages

Basically, in the process of 25 seconds an average HS QB needs to know:
- where the LB's are/are they playing up back are they in a zone or man look.
- they need to know where all of their WR's are going
- they need to know if a RB is staying in to pass block or going out
- they need to decide if the CB's are playing man or zone
- they need to see if the Safties are playing up or back
- They need to know who their hot receiver is
- They need to decide if anyone blitzing
If so, they need to re-adjust the OL to pick up the blitzer or audible out of the play away from the blitz.

What I learned from coaches: post-snap reads are purely the results from your pre-snap reads and film study of opposing teams. - Basically what the QB/OC reviews with you that week about the opposing team.

What I learned in the last 8 years from his coaches teaching him has helped me understand the game so differently from a QB perspective than I would have ever had otherwise.

Ironically, after all of that training and coaching, he quit football because he was average QB/CB and wouldn't have gone on to play college ball anywhere and he has a shot with baseball. So, he decided to put all of his efforts into baseball as a pitcher. He's a senior this year. So, we will see how it all goes.


Kinda off-topic. The kid is throwing 82 pretty regularly as a senior. By the end of the year, he should be around 85-87. What blows my mind is that he may not even be good enough to get a college scholarship. When I was in HS, a kid throwing that fast was drafted in the MLB's. It is crazy to see how much sports (in general) has evolved over the last 20 years.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 12:34 AM

In reading and watching Jake Burns breakdown on last year and this year.

He covered it well.

It makes sense as well. During camp our defensive front was getting to Baker. He got to the point where he was expecting pressure before the play.

He fell into a syndrome of self fulfilling that the rush was coming. And fell into a habit of rolling right. Which cuts off half the field.

You can see over the last three games Baker has been trying to stay in the pocket and not roll right.

However, he is not comfortable. He is showing happy feet which he has done in the past but when he pats the ball; he is not trusting what he sees.

Conversely when Brady is in the pocket. He looks calm enough to make a sandwich. But keep in mind he is 42 and been in one system his whole career.

Baker needs help. Not sure if Lindley, Monken or Freddie are the answer. Maybe Stanton can help but I don't if he is still with the team after being placed on the IR.

I don't think it is mechanics. I think it is his eyes. He can see pre-snap. Post-snap he has to trust his preparation. When you study a defense you have to look for "tells" and tendencies. Trust what you see. Anticipate open and let it rip.

Easy to say. Hard to do. Experience counts.

In essence he is playing with the jitters pre-programmed.

I think he will work his way out of the problem.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 01:08 AM
[i][/i]
Originally Posted By: bonefish




Baker needs help. Not sure if Lindley, Monken or Freddie are the answer. .


I agree with what you say except this bit. After 8 weeks and seeing no adjustment to help Baker, I'm comfortable saying Freddie and Monken are NOT the answer.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 01:35 AM
I get that. I really do.

But we are not there in meetings. Lindley is the qb coach. A guy hired by Freddie. Lindley is not a guy with a long history of being a qb coach.

I remember Baker saying how helpful Stanton had been. I do not know if he is still in the qb room?

Actual throwing mechanics are not going to be worked on at this point in the season. Maybe slight stuff but nothing heavy.

What can be worked on in film sessions is exactly what Jake Burns broke down. Showing last year tape with the right approach. And then this year with what has gone wrong. That is visual reinforcement. Also it would not hurt to study film on veterans like Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Wilson.

Try and get him to see how slight pocket movement, (slide, move up, find open space, then reset your feet).

I also think that adjustments need to happen in scheme design, and route patterns, with emphasis on shaking loose Odell. I don't believe they have figured out the best way to use Odell.

Using him on reverses or out of the backfield as a runner to me are not the way to use his talents.

Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 03:39 AM
Do you remember the Browns running a designed roll out? (Not just against Denver but all year) A bootleg or anything that INTENTIONALLY gets Baker out of the pocket.. I do not.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 03:53 AM
Now that you mention it..... I don't either.
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 04:37 AM
Me 3... and I've always thought the lack of a couple plays like that is stupid.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 10:05 AM
Yep, we were saying that during the game at one point too ... our offense seems so limited
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 02:14 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Yep, we were saying that during the game at one point too ... our offense seems so limited


Watching the SF game along with a bunch of the discussions going on here regarding scheme were extremely illuminating for me.

We are the anti-SF, in terms of how we execute our offense.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 03:02 PM


2-2 without Callaway.

0-4 when Callaway plays.

I think Baker would rather get rid of Callaway than OBJ.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 03:07 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Yep, we were saying that during the game at one point too ... our offense seems so limited


Watching the SF game along with a bunch of the discussions going on here regarding scheme were extremely illuminating for me.

We are the anti-SF, in terms of how we execute our offense.



I noticed this past Sunday... Seems like Freddie's cheat-sheet keeps getting smaller and smaller. Nothing like the poster board some of these coaches carry.

This Sunday I'm half expecting to just see an index card that reads
PASS
PASS
RUN CHUBB

He can just cycle through the plays as Mayfield stands in the huddle and tells everyone "Go deep!" on all the pass plays.

Not only is there no flow to anything we're doing, there is always some tip-off as to what to expect... Empty backfield on 1st and goal, No Chubb on 4th and 1, etc, etc...

Purp hit the nail on the head... Someone asked if the scheme and playbook were too complicated, he said "convoluted" is the better word.

I think we may have better success if all the plays are thrown in a hat and Freddie just picks them out, one by one.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 03:11 PM
J/c

In terms of SF ... if we had their offensive scheme, coaching, and play calling we’d be 6-2 or better IMO
Posted By: bonefish Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 03:38 PM

The only ones I remember are RPO's. Where the roll is to the left briefly. Then there is a decision.

I was going over some of the route concepts yesterday. Looking at spacing and where and what the design was meant to do.

I didn't see anything that was abnormal. Meaning route design usually tries to spread the field. Create space and make the defense cover the field.

I believe most of the issues are timing related. One route takes x-time another y-time etc. It comes down to anticipate open and release. Once that is disrupted the play becomes off script. When a offense is in rhythm the timing is right. Receivers are where they should be and the ball is out to the right guy at the right time.

Most of the problems have come off script plays. Teams have studied Baker and his trends off script. They have become predictable. The defenses have adjusted.

That is why route concepts and timing are critical.

This comes down to coaching. Making sure trust and accountability is there.

If the Browns don't clean this up. The results will not change.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 04:32 PM
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN

Just to play devil's advocate... why not? Mayfield had some of his biggest games in the back half of last season, what is a defense going to learn in the off-season that those defenses couldn't have learned from the first 5-6 weeks of film?


That would be presuming that having a week to week time allotment to study a team is the same as having an entire off season to prepare for your opponents. You know your division rivals pretty well. Once the schedule is released, it gives you ample time to break down your out of division opponents for the upcoming season.

Quote:
I would also ask the question then that IF Mayfield was so limited last year and only using half the field and making one read and getting the ball out quick... and it was working... why go to an offense that asked him to stand in the pocket every freakin' play and burp the baby for 3.5 seconds waiting for guys to sprint down the field?


Who is saying that's what they're "asking him to do"? Are you and others on this board trying to suggest that the coaching staff is telling Mayfield he can't throw to a check down WR? That he should only concentrate on the long routes? That he shouldn't work through his progressions quickly and find the open WR? If I had to bet I'd say that's not true. I'm pretty sure nobody on the coaching staff wants him to stand in the pocket and hold the ball for 3.5 seconds.

Quote:
Sure, add a few things, throw in a little more complexity, but to say "You had success this way last year but next year, you have to be like Peyton Manning"... that's at LEAST as big a risk of just trying to do what worked last year.


It's kind of odd you say that because that's not even close to what I said. I said they had to "expand on the play book". Which is exactly the same thing you just said only in different words. I'm not sure if people are actually watching the games or not. Because we are doing some of the same things we did last year and running some of the same plays we did last year.
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 05:23 PM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

In reading and watching Jake Burns breakdown on last year and this year.

He covered it well.

It makes sense as well. During camp our defensive front was getting to Baker. He got to the point where he was expecting pressure before the play.

He fell into a syndrome of self fulfilling that the rush was coming. And fell into a habit of rolling right. Which cuts off half the field.

You can see over the last three games Baker has been trying to stay in the pocket and not roll right.

However, he is not comfortable. He is showing happy feet which he has done in the past but when he pats the ball; he is not trusting what he sees.

Conversely when Brady is in the pocket. He looks calm enough to make a sandwich. But keep in mind he is 42 and been in one system his whole career.

Baker needs help. Not sure if Lindley, Monken or Freddie are the answer. Maybe Stanton can help but I don't if he is still with the team after being placed on the IR.

I don't think it is mechanics. I think it is his eyes. He can see pre-snap. Post-snap he has to trust his preparation. When you study a defense you have to look for "tells" and tendencies. Trust what you see. Anticipate open and let it rip.

Easy to say. Hard to do. Experience counts.

In essence he is playing with the jitters pre-programmed.

I think he will work his way out of the problem.


I am puzzled with Baker play this year,I don't think you play like he did last year out of luck, so I went back and watched some of last years games to try and figure it out.

The confidence last year was very visible,but the most noticeable thing is that Baker is chubby now...

His physical form is the thing I noticed the most, he was much more nimble and elusive and was able to scramble with success. he was much quicker. That's what I noticed the most in his game.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 05:37 PM

That is kind of bizarre. I don't think that has single thing to do with anything.

Posted By: oobernoober Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 05:55 PM
I recall an article saying Baker did put on a bit of weight (muscle) in order to better handle the beating of a season. I remember because I've heard of other QBs doing similar stuff for the same reason (Matt Ryan either right before or right after his big season). Somehow, the extra layer(s) of muscle better prepare a QB for the punishment of the season.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 06:40 PM
I don’t think it’s clear at all that we are running the same plays as last year especially when you look at how little we actually go through a play action fake as compared to last year.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 06:43 PM
We aren't running all the same plays from last year. We are running some of the same plays from last year.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 06:50 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
We aren't running all the same plays from last year. We are running some of the same plays from last year.


Indeed, but we’re not running enough of what we did last year to indicate we’re building off of what we did IMO.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 06:52 PM
I guess your definition is what's confusing me here. So we are using some of last years plays. We've also added more plays, but we're not building on what we did last year? Hopefully you can see the confusion there.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 06:56 PM

His weight or muscle IMO has nothing to do with what has gone wrong this year.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 07:00 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I guess your definition is what's confusing me here. So we are using some of last years plays. We've also added more plays, but we're not building on what we did last year? Hopefully you can see the confusion there.


I don’t believe the scheme we were trying to implement initially this season had anything to do with last years late season ‘run’. All you have to do is recall all the questions of ‘why aren’t we doing what we did last year’ when we started to see Baker holding the ball longer and this offense wasn’t moving. Outside of the occasional drive, the only game we saw even close to last year was the Ravens game.

Blame Bakers issues on whatever you feel is the source. He certainly has them. But what’s clear to me is that he is not comfortable with whatever they are trying to get him to do. Logic says that if this scheme is building off of last years, Bakers familiarity and success last year should mitigate to a greater degree his issues this year.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 07:16 PM
What appears to be the biggest difference to me is that they expected him to start going through his progressions quickly and more of them. Last season it appeared to be more of a "one read, hit your spot" type deal. But as time goes on, your QB must learn to read and react.

As I said earlier, no coaching staff tells a QB to sit in the pocket and hold the ball. No coaching staff tells them not to look for an open WR when your primary target is covered. Nobody told him to abandon the pocket and roll out rather than step up in the pocket. Those are growing pains he will have to overcome. And protecting him from those growing pains is simply delaying the inevitable That's what's happening. But to claim you can just stick with a very basic O that we ran last year for the success of your team for the long haul I find to be very short sighted.

Yet I've seen them do that in games. Quick passes to begin the game. To build some rhythm. Then as things open up, it falls apart. You have to build a system for the long haul. Your QB has to learn to go through progressions and read the entire field. It's simply a part of the maturation process.

That's what they're trying to do here. And Mayfield's ability, or lack there of, will determine the longevity of not only his career, but the career of this coaching staff.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 07:23 PM
Oh, I agree with you. Simply adding some color behind something that was said.
Posted By: CoachTodd10 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 10:46 PM
He looks like he is in a state of panic. I worry that his off the field weirdness is an indication of him coming unhinged. He is under a lot of pressure.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 10:48 PM
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 11:16 PM
Good info, thanks
Posted By: bonefish Re: Baker Cont. - 11/06/19 11:23 PM

That is why context is meaningful.

It is easy to say. He is one read quarterback. That he can't go through progressions post snap.

There are many factors in play. Cherry picking stats does not tell the whole story.

I have seen Mayfield read the field. Be quick and accurate. Deliver on the dime throws under pressure.

In the end it comes down to coaching. The coaching staff is responsible to get the most from each player.

Then it becomes a part of designing plays to take advantage of your players skills.

That is what is so baffling to me. Freddie got the head coach job because of how the offense responded last year.
It was reported he met with each unit and found out from the players what plays they were most comfortable with?

That approach seemed to work. I mean you could not be more efficient than the Browns in the red zone the last 8 games of 2018.

I have tried to figure this thing out. What has happened?

I am at a loss. I guess I will watch and see if they can improve to what they were last year.

This past week was reminiscent of Cody Kessler. When scoring a touchdown was taboo.
Posted By: SunDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 12:33 AM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

That is why context is meaningful.

It is easy to say. He is one read quarterback. That he can't go through progressions post snap.

There are many factors in play. Cherry picking stats does not tell the whole story.

I have seen Mayfield read the field. Be quick and accurate. Deliver on the dime throws under pressure.

In the end it comes down to coaching. The coaching staff is responsible to get the most from each player.

Then it becomes a part of designing plays to take advantage of your players skills.

That is what is so baffling to me. Freddie got the head coach job because of how the offense responded last year.
It was reported he met with each unit and found out from the players what plays they were most comfortable with?

That approach seemed to work. I mean you could not be more efficient than the Browns in the red zone the last 8 games of 2018.

I have tried to figure this thing out. What has happened?

I am at a loss. I guess I will watch and see if they can improve to what they were last year.

This past week was reminiscent of Cody Kessler. When scoring a touchdown was taboo.


Ummm, maybe Freddie wasn't really responsible for the offenses success last year? Has anyone considered that? Bob Willey said he wasn't...yep, I know, just a disgruntled ex-employee....but the offense sure sucks with Freddie making the game plans and game day calls...
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 12:34 AM
j/c...

Some more film breakdown from last game...


Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 12:35 AM
Posted By: bonefish Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 01:47 AM

I don't have an answer to Willy and what he said.

I can only go as far as what was reported last year.

Eventually this will come to conclusion. One way or the other.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 01:30 PM
I see a couple of items that need to be corrected. First, our WR's are "NOT" getting separation. These guys are supposed to be All Pro WR's and they are not not not getting separation. Second, our o-line is just good enough to allow Baker a primary or secondary look. If and when (more often than not) those first 2 receivers have not gained separation or run a bad route it forces Baker into bad throws and/or decisions.

I hate to point out the glaring differences but if you compare New England's receivers to ours it's like night and day. Not only do those guys get separation, it is mandatory that they run the expected route. Watch Brady, very seldom do you see that guy go to his 3rd or 4th option. He reads the defense and the 1st option and will quickly go to the second option if the 1st is not there. Watch how they use those 3rd and 4th options to set picks (they call it shields) to free up the main receiver. For almost 2 decades the Pats have been using and abusing defenses in the NFL because they set up their receivers and limit the amount of time Brady has to hold the ball. Basic football with basic plays that for some ungodly reason no other team can seem to master except for maybe New Orleans. Those 7-8 yard patterns constantly run by the Pats consistently moves the chains. Mix in the run with an occasional deep shot to keep the defense honest and you have a big threat offense. I and every fan of the league knows without a doubt that Edelman is going to get 10-12 targets a game and the dude is freaking always open. How is that?

The Browns need to tone back the offense and start playing controlled football. Make the WR's run the correct route and get separation or bench their azz. OBJ and Landry want 10-12 targets a game - then get open you prima donnas. Quit making your QB have to look for a 3rd or 4th option or check down because you ran a bad route, didn't get separation or took the play off because you were not the primary target. 7-8 yards per play moves the chains. 7-8 yard passes if you get separation opens up yards after the catch. Freeing up your other receivers like Callaway or the TE opens up shots for you down the line.

With the talent we have at WR there is no reason that Baker is not playing pitch and catch all day long with these guys. Add in the best RB in the NFL up to this point and I question how the hell you guys don't score every damn time they get the ball. Instead, we get prima donnas wearing non compliant shoes or watches. We get All pro WR's lining up wrong, running the wrong route and hell, even dropping the dang ball when it is thrown to them.

Baker isn't without fault and surely needs to get better at what he does but damn man, our bozo WR's sure aren't helping him out with all the screw ups not to mention penalties. Oh and one more thing, quit running 4 yard route when you need 8 yards for the first down. This happens 4-5 times a game and just proves your heads are not even close to being in the game.

Sorry to rant but until our All Pros start doing their job and help out a year 2 QB instead of all this other BS the team will continue to struggle. At this point, Perriman - Callaway - and Landry was a much better receiving corp than what we have on the field now. These guys are not working together to make this team explosive - it's all individual BS and it's about time someone called them out!
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 01:46 PM
Stop blaming our receivers.

OBJ and Landry are open every play. Being open in the NFL and being open in college are two completely different things.

In college, such as when Mayfield was at OK guys were wide open with 2-4 yards worth of seperation. That does NOT happen in the NFL unless there is a blown coverage, and the Browns D blows coverage a lot because the only guys we have that can cover anyone is Ward and Mitchell, the rest of our secondary is trash.

OBJ and Landry are "NFL Open" every play, its up to Mayfield to TRUST his WR, and throw with anticipation and throw them the rest of the way open.

Brady throws his receivers open all the time. So did Manning, Brees, etc. Even Lamar Jackson is beginning to throw his receivers open.

Mayfield doesn't trust his receivers or his arm. Why was a trasn can QB like Ryan Tannenhill aboe to get Juice Landry the ball 100 catches a year but Mayfield who is supposed to be "the franchise" can't?

Its because he doesn't trust his arm or his receivers, he is waiting for guys to be blown coverage open like they were at OK and that isn't gonna happen in the NFL. Broken down Eli Manning was able to get OBJ the ball but Mayfield can't?

Give me a break, we are 6 win team right now with any average Qb not named Baker Mayfield. He may get it and improve down the road, who knows...but we would be better off playing Garrett Gilbert if we actually want to win because I gurantee you he trusts his arm, and he by god isn't afraid to throw OBJ and Landry open, that ball will come out hot, and crisp...Gilbert won't stand back there all day like Mayfield does, scared to the throw the ball.

It would do Mayfield some good to be bench (the 1st time in his life) teach him some humility. Todd Haley was right Mayfield wasn't ready and was too immature for success, his little stunt at the press conference, his play on the field, and shaving huis mustache multiple times per day proves it.

Besides, Garret Gilbert outplayed Mayfield in camp anyways and looked more like a QB anyways, we would probably be better off...at 6'4 231 he isn't going to do anything cute, he is going to stand in the pocket and throw the damn ball instead of dancing around like Baker does.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 01:55 PM
j/c

As time moves forward, it appears the many things that are contributing to "Baker's" issue become more evident/possible if not probable.

Baker's lack of trust in the O Line started in TC

Remember how we kept reading that Devaroe was 'unblockable'? How Myles Garrett was blowing up everyone? How Ogunjobi looks poised for a breakout year? How Vernon is going to set Myles free?

Baker saw his O Line getting punked in TC by a front 4 that can't get pressure against real NFL O lines - even those playing with backups and rookie 6th rounder-types on the opposing line. He lost confidence then knowing full-well what was to come in the regular season.

The coaching that probably mattered the most was let go

Freddie chose to keep and promote Lindley (his buddy) over Zampese. Opinions range on Zampese from a guy who saved or made Palmer/Dalton...ruined Cincy's O...then helped Baker light it up. There were rumblings from guys like Wylie and others that Freddie was less-important to last year's offensive turnaround than were "others".

I can't tell you how many well-respected opinions I've read that state that the inexperienced Lindley is of precious little help to Baker in gettting ready for each week's game and opponent...the polar opposite of what Baker reportedly got from Zampese last year. Zampese isn't working in the NFL right now...so who knows? But all this talk about 'getting my eyes right' and 'mechanics breakdowns' etc are the realm of the QB coach in season.

Pre-season "rest"

I don't know what it has been with Browns coaches over the years and "resting" the starters during pre-season...AND the 4th pre-season game. Weeden to Manziel to Kizer to Mayfield...play a little in games 1 & 2...a little more in game 3 (used the word 'little' twice there and could have been 3 times)...and take game 4 off completely. Wth? Newsflash: If you aren't "ready" than you need to play those pre-season games...and we haven't started a season "ready" in as long as I can remember.

Talent infusion

I'll apologize right now for saying this yet again ...but...OBJ has been disappointing, Higgins has been out and injured, Njoku has been out...Hilliard is < Duke, Kush is/was <<< Zeitler..and Hunt can't play until THIS Sunday. There has been anything BUT an actual talent infusion since last year on the Offense.

Playcalling

I'm not able to say anything in this regard that hasn't been surmised, hashed-and-rehashed, debated, you-name-it. But so far this year, it simply isn't working and isn't good-enough.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 02:19 PM
I think your explanation of the first clip is good but I believe you missed what actually happened and why. Because of the defensive lineup, it showed Baker man coverage. His primary target was the running back. OBJ was supposed to run a deep out pulling the corner with him. Reading the safety, Baker sees he has come up to take the RB. Baker then turns to his secondary target witch is Landry across the middle. The problem with the play is the TE is supposed to be running the seam route to draw the other safety deep. Because OBJ breaks off his route to go deep and the TE dogs his route and drifts toward the middle, the other safety pulls off the TE to go through Landry negating the catch. OBJ would have been the 4th option because the 3rd option was the TE running the seam which got negated because OBJ decided to go deep and the TE dogged the route.

In another post I talk about our WR's not working together to get open. This is not sandlot football but we have WR's running sandlot patterns. IMO, Baker did exactly what he was supposed to do. He looked left to see if the safety came up to cover the RB. OBJ cleared the area for the RB play but reading the safety called for going to the secondary target which he had actually looked off. Remember, we needed 4 yards to move the chains and the patterns were set as such. BTW, OBJ did not beat the DB on his out route but he wasn't the main target. Baker came to Landry running across the middle who clearly had a step on the DB. Unfortunately, due to the TE fading towards the middle and dogging the route, the TE took away any chance of a deep shot in the seam and allowed the safety to pull off of him because OBJ had pulled the corner deep and the TE was jogging around lost on the short side of the field. The safety came up and separated Landry from the ball ending the drive.

Add lib routes look pretty and can always be questioned as to why the QB didn't read the add lib. The play was to get 4 yards and move the chains but due to laziness and the add lib, the play failed in what appears to be a good read by Baker from his main target to his secondary target. His 3rd target was null and void due to a poor run route and the add lib by OBJ.

IMO, this goes back to discipline and every player doing their job on every play. The Browns issues are players taking plays off when they are not the main target and/or players going rouge. OBJ going deep would have killed the seam route if the TE had run it. The dogging by the TE combined with a poor pattern killed the deep route and ultimately the crossing route that was option 2. Option 1 - defended. Option 2 - blown due to a poor route ran by option 3. Option 3 - blown by a poor route (shouldn't have been anywhere near the option 2 route but was within 3 yards) and OBJ going deep. Option 4 - should never have to look for option 4 if the other players do their job.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 02:32 PM
We have had some slow routes where the ball is delivered and the receiver hasn't looked back yet. Drops. But BM has a tendency when flushed to escape right. He is also showing something over multiple games that is my impression, but I have seen it multiple times. Or them is more accurate. We force the ball into multiple coverage, often behind the receiver targeted. We are not seeing some open apparent 'home runs' deeper and outside on the field. He is choosing the short check down route which is too short by design for a first down. Frustrating to watch, but a few DCs ought to send chocolates for the way we fail in our passing game. Haven't seen much change in what Freddie dials up, and not sure what our line will allow. But there is enough here to do some differently. It is the lack of change AND improvement especially in our passing game. My apologies if I am mischaracterizing what I see, but there might be too much rocket science on FK's part. We seem to have a predilection for fooling the D, but we aren't doing it.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 03:15 PM
Originally Posted By: steve0255
I think your explanation of the first clip is good but I believe you missed what actually happened and why.


I'm not Matt Waldman.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 04:56 PM
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


Again - Baker needs to be better, no bones about it, that's a horrible stat, but look at some of the reasons for failure. Context is not everything, but facts play a role.


Baker tied for most passing attempts on 2nd and 3rd and 15+.

WRs 42% more in close coverage than last year.

Why? Because the same plays are being run, over and over, on 2nd and 3rd and long. Who lines up on 2nd and 3rd and long more than any team in the NFL? The Cleveland Browns.


Gameplan by opponent: First part is easy... the Browns will shoot themselves in the foot and line-up behind the chains... Once they do, here are the five plays they will run.

Mindboggling.

It's like we go out of our way to make everything as easy as possible for our opponent's defense -- from game-planning right through execution.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 06:32 PM
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg

I saw this yesterday.. pretty interesting.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 06:34 PM
Quote:
Gameplan by opponent: First part is easy... the Browns will shoot themselves in the foot and line-up behind the chains... Once they do, here are the five plays they will run.

Mindboggling.

Yes it is... that's why teams play us to not give up the big play. they know if we have to go 10-12 plays on a long field, eventually we will shoot ourselves in the foot. Worst case is we get to the redzone and kick a FG.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 07:13 PM
I can't believe they got Hanover Fiste to do this segment.
Posted By: jfanent Re: Baker Cont. - 11/07/19 09:55 PM
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


I've seen better heads on boils.
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Baker Cont. - 11/08/19 10:22 AM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

His weight or muscle IMO has nothing to do with what has gone wrong this year.


I was saying that the thing which was more obvious to me, when i compare Baker this year with last year, was that he is less nimble and slower..

Does this impact his play? I suppose it does, at least his scrambling and pocket movement are not the same, and his mechanic's also are impacted by his form and mass.

Is this why he is playing so bad? Probably not but I would hope so, because its an issue that has an easy fix.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Baker Cont. - 11/08/19 11:45 AM
There’s no doubt he’s heavier, and only he knows the effects of weight gain. If it is that much of an impact, then I’m sure this offseason he’ll tweak the training/eating
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/11/19 12:49 PM
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/11/19 03:35 PM
I thought Baker played better yesterday than he has in the past. Hopefully, he gains some swag from this win. Pittsburgh definitely has their mojo back on defense. You can see it with the way they play.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 11/11/19 03:44 PM
The Steelers are beatable if the coaches are willing to alter the offense. I mean I wouldn't even mind multiple 3 and outs if all three plays are runs. Need to come out and slow the pass rush down. No empty sets, not even once. Show the Steelers they are going to be in a dogfight, ground it out game and they are going to have to spend 60 minutes tackling Chubb and Hunt.

The offense the Browns have been running this season will not beat the Steelers. Please Freddie, swallow your pride and do the right thing.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/12/19 03:45 AM
Posted By: SunDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 01:28 AM
Originally Posted By: jfanent
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


I've seen better heads on boils.


Is Rappaport part Hobbit? Talk about a set of ears....
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 01:37 AM
Umm .... I think you are talking about Andrew Siclliano ..... who is a big time Browns fan, and is the host of NFL Now.

This is Rappaport:

Posted By: rastanplan Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 12:03 PM
Best think for Baker is, IMHO, to get used not being in the spotlight,just let him develop. This is Chubb's team right now, and most of us is OK with that.

We will not get anything good if we keep on hyping him, for good or bad. Just let him develop and he will be OK.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 02:27 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg


I know sunday he threw two that should have been picked .... and i know there was at least a few the previous two weeks ...

Bake is playing better as of late but lets not get carried away ...

We’ll see just how much he's improved this week ....
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 02:47 PM
Don't forget that 7 or 8 of Baker's interceptions first hit a Browns player in the hand/hands/gut and two were a result of a business decision by Jarvis and a non-existent route by Braylon. Still...Baker must continue to improve if we are going to win games.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 02:52 PM
I’m not sure what the exact number of INTs is that were Baker’s fault or the WRs fault, but this reminded me of the year when we had Kenny Britt ... it seemed like it’d hit his hands and bounce up for INTs an incredible amount
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 03:53 PM
I didn’t forget .... it wasn’t relevant to the discussion ....

the stats were from the last 3 games ... i was referring to that time frame and how much hes improved not the entire seasons body of work ... thumbsup

Braylon .... rofl
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 05:02 PM
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Don't forget that 7 or 8 of Baker's interceptions first hit a Browns player in the hand/hands/gut and two were a result of a business decision by Jarvis and a non-existent route by Braylon. Still...Baker must continue to improve if we are going to win games.


Well, he also had many where the receivers bailed him out.

Baker was making many hill advised throws, and he still is... not so many fortunately,but he still has to many WFT throws...
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 05:35 PM
Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Don't forget that 7 or 8 of Baker's interceptions first hit a Browns player in the hand/hands/gut and two were a result of a business decision by Jarvis and a non-existent route by Braylon. Still...Baker must continue to improve if we are going to win games.


Well, he also had many where the receivers bailed him out.

Baker was making many hill advised throws, and he still is... not so many fortunately,but he still has to many WFT throws...


Every QB enjoys a WR bailout at times...every QB makes throws that get dropped by the defense...but, I can't EVER remember a QB having 7-8 interceptions by the mid-point of a season that hit his receiver first.

I bolded a relevant comment above.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 05:54 PM
So let's see if I have the list up to date now......

Baker's struggles are the fault of.....

1. Freddie

2. The OL

3. The WR's.

Did I miss anybody?
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 06:04 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
So let's see if I have the list up to date now......

Baker's struggles are the fault of.....

1. Freddie

2. The OL

3. The WR's.

Did I miss anybody?



Nope, but his struggles aren't the fault of those, and he isn't at fault for theirs; they are in addition to his.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 06:25 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
So let's see if I have the list up to date now......

Baker's struggles are the fault of.....

1. Freddie

2. The OL

3. The WR's.

Did I miss anybody?

the fans loudness
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 06:27 PM
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Don't forget that 7 or 8 of Baker's interceptions first hit a Browns player in the hand/hands/gut and two were a result of a business decision by Jarvis and a non-existent route by Braylon. Still...Baker must continue to improve if we are going to win games.


Braylon Edwards? saywhat willynilly rofl
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 06:48 PM
Braylon... OBJ... same person.

Attention whore, supreme talent, can make all sorts of acrobatic catches that "wow" you, can't catch the routine ball that hits both hands.
Posted By: leadtheway Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 11:26 PM
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Baker Cont. - 11/13/19 11:39 PM
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Braylon... OBJ... same person.

Attention whore, supreme talent, can make all sorts of acrobatic catches that "wow" you, can't catch the routine ball that hits both hands.



What a horrible take. Braylon Edwards had one great season and was average to below average to bad in all the others. OBJ was historically good unless he was injured. He also hasn't had any issues with drops until this year. OBJ has nearly 600 more yards than Edwards but has played 44 less games.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Baker Cont. - 11/14/19 01:48 AM
j/c:

Up to this point, no QB has dealt with more receiver drops than Mayfield (21) and has the 2nd highest drop % per attempt (6.8%).

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing_advanced.htm#advanced_passing::18
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/14/19 10:54 AM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
So let's see if I have the list up to date now......

Baker's struggles are the fault of.....

1. Freddie

2. The OL

3. The WR's.

Did I miss anybody?



Yes Baker Mayfield
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Baker Cont. - 11/14/19 12:19 PM
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Don't forget that 7 or 8 of Baker's interceptions first hit a Browns player in the hand/hands/gut and two were a result of a business decision by Jarvis and a non-existent route by Braylon. Still...Baker must continue to improve if we are going to win games.


Well, he also had many where the receivers bailed him out.

Baker was making many hill advised throws, and he still is... not so many fortunately,but he still has to many WFT throws...


Every QB enjoys a WR bailout at times...every QB makes throws that get dropped by the defense...but, I can't EVER remember a QB having 7-8 interceptions by the mid-point of a season that hit his receiver first.

I bolded a relevant comment above.


Kizer for example...

Baker was/is the QB who throws the most into 2x and 3x coverage. He's also not very accurate out of the pocket...

The kid, IMHO, was rattled but now he is calming down and it shows. He's not very good under pressure, honestly, so the best is for him to get off the spotlight.

I actually think that he either gets off the spotlight or he will be getting out of the NFL soon. He just can't handle it and it makes him worst.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Baker Cont. - 11/14/19 11:05 PM
Beckham and Landry are tied (with a handful of other players) for 6th in the NFL with 5 dropped passes each.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?seas...amp;sortOrder=0

Beckham has a catch % of 55; Landry 58.
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#catch-percentage
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Baker Cont. - 11/15/19 02:39 PM
Baker is starting to play better and it shows. Good for him and for us.

Much more mobile than at the start of the season
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 11/20/19 11:08 PM
QB Mayfield Exudes Leadership At Critical Time For Browns
By TOM WITHERS

https://pro32.ap.org/article/qb-mayfield-exudes-leadership-critical-time-browns

CLEVELAND (AP) — In those raw emotional moments following the stunning brawl with the Pittsburgh Steelers, Baker Mayfield exuded calming leadership.

The Browns are going to need more of that from their quarterback.

Mayfield, who has played much better the past three weeks after a slow start to his second NFL season, displayed an established veteran’s poise in the hazy postgame following Thursday night’s ugly sequence when Browns defensive end Myles Garrett struck Steelers quarterback Mason Rudolph in the head with a swung helmet.

During a live TV interview before leaving the field, Mayfield managed to find the right balance by calling Garrett’s act “inexcusable” while also supporting his teammate.

It was a delicate moment, one handled by the 24-year-old Mayfield, who hasn’t always shown such maturity. Earlier this season, he stormed away during an interview after objecting to a line of questioning.

But in a far more serious situation, Mayfield shined.

“It’s a tough spot,” Browns guard Joel Bitonio told reporters following Wednesday’s practice. “It's such an emotional game anyway. You know they try to give us a 10-minute cool-down period to not talk to you guys you don't want to say anything you'll regret, and he's on the field talking about it pretty much as we see it happening. It was a tough spot for him, but I think he handled it like a leader.”

For Mayfield, it’s part of the gig.

As the unquestioned face of Cleveland’s franchise, Mayfield carries the burden of performing on the field while handling non-football duties off it. It’s a strange mix of player and public relations spokesman.

Browns coach Freddie Kitchens was pleased with how his young QB stepped up in a scalding spotlight.

“There are a lot of emotions in football, and then when you walk off the football field, those emotions do not just stop,” Kitchens said. “Sometimes you just say what you feel at the moment. I was the same way. You get asked questions and you want to answer questions. You want to be truthful with people, and I think he did a good job of that.”

Mayfield downplayed the impact of his postgame comments. However, he did acknowledge some of his past experiences helped prepare him for the kind of adversity the Browns are facing in a season of roadblocks.

“I would not say that I am made for this moment,” said Mayfield, who has five touchdown passes and no interceptions in the past three games. “It is just about being that person every day that this team needs in the position I am in being a captain and showing the way and setting the standard, like the things I have been talking about. I would not necessarily say that I am made for this moment. I think I was made to come here in Cleveland and try and set the standard and culture each and every day.”

Mayfield said he has spoken with Garrett, who had the appeal of his indefinite suspension heard Wednesday in New York. A ruling is expected in the next two days.

Mayfield wanted to make sure his teammate didn’t feel alone.

“I’ve been in that moment,” he said. “It was a smaller scale in college — my Kansas mistake. You feel that weight of everybody crushing you. I wanted him to know that we have support for him, and he can lean on us.”

Mayfield was referring to an incident during his senior season at Oklahoma. After some Kansas players refused to shake his hand during the pregame coin toss, Mayfield grabbed his crotch while shouting expletives at the Jayhawks during the game. He didn’t start the next game, and the moment added to that reputation.

Mayfield has mostly toned down those antics, though there are still times when his emotions run high.

As for his play, Mayfield is looking much more as he did a year ago, when he broke the league’s rookie record with 27 TD passes. He’s making better decisions with the ball, staying in the pocket and delivering passes with accuracy.

"Baker has come into his own again,” Bitonio said. “He had some unlucky turnovers I would say early in the season and that kind of carried over a little bit. But he's kind of looking like himself. He made a few plays with his feet, made some throws, even ran the ball in one time on the QB sneak. It's some life, some good things that we're seeing from him, and I know he's extremely focused right now."

NOTES: Bitonio (groin), WRs Odell Beckham Jr. (groin) and Jarvis Landry (hip) were limited in practice. ... TE David Njoku practiced for the first time since breaking his wrist in Week 2. Njoku is eligible to play Sunday, but Kitchens wants to gauge his readiness first. Njoku decided to have surgery after initially saying he wouldn’t. “I’m very impatient,” he said what changed his mind. “When I want something, I want it right now. Without surgery, it looked like it would make me wait a little bit. I didn’t have time for that.”
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 03/02/20 01:28 PM
j/c

The Baker stuff is overblown as usual. He never said he was not willing to learn as many want to claim. He said some things he can correct on his own. It's not that he's unwilling to learn. Please don't make that up.

Everyone learns differently. For me, It's much easier to fix my golf swing if I watch a video of myself than to get a lesson and have someone else attempt to explain it to me. I'll probably still eventually figure it out, but I can look at what I'm doing and understand what ails me much faster.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 03/09/20 05:13 PM
j/c...

Great, now he's going to have to take time away for a statue unveiling!...

Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 03/09/20 05:16 PM
Baker's statue will probably slide to the right and might be grabbing his own crotch.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 03/09/20 05:19 PM
I wonder if it will include two cops trying to tackle him?
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: Baker Cont. - 03/09/20 05:21 PM
These comments.. lol
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Baker Cont. - 03/09/20 05:37 PM
I'll literally LOL if it is planting a flag rofl
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 03/09/20 05:50 PM
That would be good, too. LOL
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Baker Cont. - 03/09/20 05:52 PM
His statue in Cleveland will be behind the Cheesecake Factory.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 03/09/20 06:09 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
His statue in Cleveland will be behind the Cheesecake Factory.


Be a good spot to erect it.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Baker Cont. - 03/18/20 09:24 PM


He should be working out with Jarvis Landry and OBJ. Slacker.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 03/18/20 10:38 PM
I'm glad he is working out this year. The Browns can be really, really good this year if he improves his game.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Baker Cont. - 03/18/20 10:43 PM
It seems to me that Freddie told him to take time off last off-season, enjoy your wedding, and so forth.

Yeah, here's one story:

Freddie Kitchens wants Baker Mayfield to ‘decompress’ before setting sights on 2019
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/fre...g-sights-on-201
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 03/18/20 10:45 PM
Yes, Freddie said that. But, what's your point?
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Baker Cont. - 03/18/20 10:47 PM
Well, just that Baker did what Freddie said, and some were ticked, saying that Baker was lazy.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 03/18/20 10:50 PM
We have different interpretations on what/why Baker did what he did.

But, I will let this go. I'm very sorry I mentioned Baker in such a critical manner. Because I guarantee the Dark Side dudes will be coming.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 03/18/20 10:51 PM
Quote:
I'm glad he is working out this year.



Don't be fooled. Baker worked out last year as well.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 03/18/20 10:52 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15


He should be working out with Jarvis Landry and OBJ. Slacker.


Not a very good throw.

Plus, what's up with the bakermayfield watermark on the screen?

This was probably done for show.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Baker Cont. - 03/18/20 11:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: cfrs15


He should be working out with Jarvis Landry and OBJ. Slacker.


Not a very good throw.

Plus, what's up with the bakermayfield watermark on the screen?

This was probably done for show.


It was posted on Danny Amendola’s Instagram.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Baker Cont. - 03/19/20 12:59 PM
yeah, I noticed everyone in the comments, commenting he threw behind him. But we're only seeing 1 throw to a receiver that we don't know how much they have worked together with yet.

Did Baker throw behind him?
Is Amendola faster then Baker thought?
Did Amendola cut the early, forcing a quicker throw?

Besides, is that not a back shoulder catch? Pretty much what you want with a defender on the inside? It's not like he stopped to catch it
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 03/19/20 02:53 PM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Don't be fooled. Baker worked out last year as well.



.............. at the Krispy Kreme.
Posted By: jfanent Re: Baker Cont. - 03/19/20 02:56 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Don't be fooled. Baker worked out last year as well.



.............. at the Krispy Kreme.


rofl
Posted By: eotab Re: Baker Cont. - 03/19/20 07:47 PM
But, I will let this go.

Gee thanks...what a nice guy...lol laugh
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Baker Cont. - 03/19/20 07:50 PM
j/c...

Posted By: eotab Re: Baker Cont. - 03/19/20 07:59 PM
Just stop getting our boy fat young lady...

Yeah I'm probably losing my job I guess, been in the hospital since last Thurs - got out but not going to work until Monday, I think??? Man 4000 died from H1N1 before we did anything and now we got 150 dead from this and the sky is falling. Got to be careful...get tested and lets get this Vaccine done so we can get back to business as usual...this no sports thing is terrible and depressing. Basketball, I'm a Buck fan since the Big "O" and now this happens. Baseball lets bring it on. Golf Masters got to get that going. And our Football better be off and running!!!
Posted By: Halfback32 Re: Baker Cont. - 04/02/20 09:23 PM
Kevin Stefanski: We have to surround Baker Mayfield with people that bring out his best
ProFootball Talk on NBC Sports
Josh Alper
ProFootball Talk on NBC SportsApr 2, 2020, 2:24 PM


Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski spoke highly of quarterback Baker Mayfield after he was hired in January and he continued to speak positively about Mayfield on a Thursday conference call.

The Browns brought in an experienced starter in Case Keenum as a free agent, but Stefanski reiterated that the quarterback job belongs to Mayfield. He also said that the organization is building around Mayfield in order to get the most out out of him on the field.

“I believe in Baker Mayfield. He’s our starting quarterback. Organizationally we believe in Baker Mayfield. It’s our job to surround him with people that can make him the best,” Stefanski said, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com.

The Browns moved to add tight end Austin Hooper and right tackle Jack Conklin in free agency to the group surrounding Mayfield on offense and they added several new pieces on defense to help while Mayfield is off the field. If that helps lift Mayfield to a higher level of play, the offseason will go in the books as a successful one in Cleveland.

Kevin Stefanski: We have to surround Baker Mayfield with people that bring out his best originally appeared on Pro Football Talk


https://sports.yahoo.com/kevin-stefanski-surround-baker-mayfield-182445824.html

Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/03/20 01:10 AM
Dude is living a charmed life. Wonder how long that spell will last?
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Baker Cont. - 04/03/20 03:10 PM
I think his life has followed most other highly-drafted QBs. The last 1-2 seasons of his rookie deal will be where the road diverges, so to speak.

As for myself, I think he'll make it... but he's still got a lot to prove. If Stefanski is at least halfway decent, Mayfield has no excuses.
Posted By: eotab Re: Baker Cont. - 04/03/20 05:56 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Dude is living a charmed life. Wonder how long that spell will last?


Oh stop already...oh as you say, another good football post rolleyes
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Baker Cont. - 04/03/20 10:49 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Dude is living a charmed life. Wonder how long that spell will last?


Oh stop already...oh as you say, another good football post rolleyes



It may not have been a great football post, but there is some validity.

This is a big year for Baker. He had a real good year as a rookie. I won't say a bad year, but it wasn't good last year. This is where we kind of find out where it is going.

I chalk up last year to idiot offensive coaches who never got along and had it all screwed up from the beginning. It was like a coach by committee. That doesn't work.

I am a fan of Baker, just as I was of Tim Couch when we drafted him. I think you recall I wasn't a big fan of Timid after a few seasons.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 04/03/20 11:03 PM
I've been watching a lot of old games on game pass.

The physical tools are there. He is the most skilled QB the Browns have had since the return. He makes throws that maybe only a dozen QBs make or even attempt.

He is the answer or I guess he could be the answer. He just needs to stay humble and put in the work. Get his head on straight. Browns fans deserve that.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/03/20 11:27 PM
Quote:
Browns fans deserve that.


Well, according to Baker's wife [gee, wonder who she heard this from?] Brown's fans are "idiots" and "front-runners."
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Baker Cont. - 04/03/20 11:34 PM
Baker at best can be a very good QB.
I don't think he will be ELITE.
He reminds me of Andy Dalton
Last year he seemed to take on the personality
Of Freddie Kitchens and just got lazy and full
Of himself.
I think Baker can be productive as long as
He has the right talent around him
I don't think Baker can elevate average talent around him
But this new HC seems to have a knack of
Getting the most out of his talent as evident
As his tenure in Minnesota
Posted By: jfanent Re: Baker Cont. - 04/03/20 11:44 PM
Quote:
Last year he seemed to take on the personality
Of Freddie Kitchens and just got lazy and full
Of himself.


I wonder how Baker would have been under Gregg Williams with Freddy as OC?
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/03/20 11:50 PM
Good question.

I think GW was more of a disciplinarian and that might have helped.

On the other hand, I really think that Freddie was still running Haley's offense in 2018, but just put a new twist on it to fit our strengths. I think he would have still switched to the BA offense this past season as the OC.

Hard to say, really. Good question, though.
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:43 AM
I think Greg Williams would not have babied and tried to be chummy chummy buddy buddy with Baker.
I'm in the minority on this . But I think Todd Haley is 10x the Offensive mind Kitchens is.
Haley simply has a better resume than FK.
It's not even close
I think a pairing of GW and TH could have worked.not Kitchens as OC.
But Dorsey and GW would have been locking horns
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:59 AM
Just my opinion, but I don't think Baker liked either Hue or Haley. I think Baker liked Freddie and Lindley. I don't think this was about Dorsey so much, but rather Dorsey trying to give Baker what he wanted.
Posted By: jaybird Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 02:42 AM
While I tend to agree... I find it humerous that currently kitchens is a position coach for the Giants... Haley is an assistant for a high school team....

Kitchens had no business being head coach


He might be a good offensive coordinator.l. But he was terrible as a head coach
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 03:01 AM
Haley spent many years In the NFL. Maybe he was just tired of it all.
Going to back to high school much easier to deal
With
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 03:05 AM
Just my opinion, but I think Haley is a jerk. My wife is from the Pittsburgh area and people would talk about him getting in bar fights because of his big mouth. He came across as very unlikeable in Hard Knocks. He also seemed to be plotting to win the HC job.
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 03:06 AM
Maybe Todd Haley and Hue weren't going to pacify Baker every 8 minutes
Instead of being in awe of Baker's celebrity
Status like Freddie was... Haley and Hue
Came off as the "meanie" coaches and not.fan boi's
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 03:11 AM
I don't think him and Ben saw eye to eye , but Haley did get that offense to be the best in the NFL.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 03:17 AM
There is probably some truth in that and it's probably why Baker wanted them both gone in my opinion.

I keep thinking back to the reports, the Hard Knocks episodes, and Bakers comments after the firings........and I truly think [this is an opinion] that Baker resented having to earn the starting job.

I think it made him angry that Hue talked to him about Tyrod arriving at 5:30 and asked what time he was arriving. I think the thing w/Hue naming Baker as number two over Stanton in his office w/all 3 present was telling because it was pretty apparent Baker was thinking I should be number 1.

I think some of Baker's comments about Duke this past year were fueled by Duke saying that Taylor should be the qb all year in 2018.

I remember watching the post-game celebration on Youtube after the Browns beat the Rats early on in 2018. Hue had the team going.......dudes were going crazy. And then, there was this one little person moving around in a white hat and saying things that drew attention from others. Watch it for yourselves.

I think the dude is a piece of crap. I hope he has matured and learned. I hope he took Marcus Spears advice about "evolving," but I kinda doubt it.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 03:21 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
Browns fans deserve that.


Well, according to Baker's wife [gee, wonder who she heard this from?] Brown's fans are "idiots" and "front-runners."

Baker's wife said that one time last year when the fans were booing and she was emotional and she quickly walked it back.. time to let it go.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 03:23 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

I think the dude is a piece of crap.


Suffice it to say you have made that abundantly clear.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 03:24 AM
Actually, they were two different instances.

I am not going to let it go. People are hanging on to OBJ's shoes...........LMAO.....what she said was far worse than shoe color. And I truly believe she heard that crap from Baker.

#cantwaittillheisgone
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 03:26 AM
Suffice to say others have said the opposite. However, I won't knock them.

I think the thread should be about Baker instead of focusing on posters. After all, this is supposedly the Pure Football Forum and the powers that be have not decided to not go w/my suggestion of creating a Personality Place Forum.
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 04:10 AM
Quote:
I think the thread should be about Baker


This fool needs to learn how to read a field or he might as well start packing his bags.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 04:33 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Actually, they were two different instances.

I am not going to let it go. People are hanging on to OBJ's shoes...........LMAO.....what she said was far worse than shoe color. And I truly believe she heard that crap from Baker.

#cantwaittillheisgone


Well let's see. First she said this:






And then, after everyone unloaded on her as if she crapped on all Browns fans (reading comprehension is a B), she clarified with this:

You really want that to mean that Baker put her up to calling Browns fans idiots?

She seems like she wears big girl pants, she could probably figure that out all on her own lol. Hell, anyone that watches this forum sees the same manic comments every Monday depending on the W or L.
Posted By: BuckDawg1946 Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 05:25 AM
Baker has shown nothing but resiliency, when his back is against the wall.

He lost his walk on mentality last year, gotta get that back.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 09:18 AM
Haters Gonna H8.

Nothing like the offseasons to turn any molehill into Mt. Everest.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 09:41 AM
Jc

This is obvious, but I think this year is the defining year of Baker’s career. He had to be humbled to the point of putting in the RIGHT work and being coached. If he has another subpar year, we’re going to be forced to think about his future.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 12:54 PM
Originally Posted By: FATE
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Actually, they were two different instances.

I am not going to let it go. People are hanging on to OBJ's shoes...........LMAO.....what she said was far worse than shoe color. And I truly believe she heard that crap from Baker.

#cantwaittillheisgone


Well let's see. First she said this:






And then, after everyone unloaded on her as if she crapped on all Browns fans (reading comprehension is a B), she clarified with this:

You really want that to mean that Baker put her up to calling Browns fans idiots?

She seems like she wears big girl pants, she could probably figure that out all on her own lol. Hell, anyone that watches this forum sees the same manic comments every Monday depending on the W or L.



Nothing like a couple of facts and quotes to expose one man's personal agenda - still butt hurt over the flag planting. Anyone paying attention can see that ... even the ones that feel the need to rush to his defense. On a good day it's a 50/50 split between solid football takes and thinly veiled posts aimed at making everything about Mayfield.

Suggesting that OBJ's shoes and watch didn't create the same amount or more national media attention as the comments over Duke is rewriting history. Claiming that National furor over the watch and the shoes and what was going to happen next wasn't as much or a bigger distraction than the Duke comments is false. . . . Claiming that players don't care about OBJ creating media noise about his antics might be true .. idk. . . what we do know is that players came out and said the Duke comments were NOT a distraction. Huh - go figure, ignore what's on record by the players in an effort to further an agenda. smh.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:14 PM
So now your considered a fair weather fan if u call bake out for his part in last years sheet show ... but if u didn’t say a word about bake last year that makes u a loyal fan ... makes perfect sense, got it ... rolleyes ...

Bake was the 2nd star in last years sheet show right behind the #1 star my boy ...

Why is that so hard for ANYONE to accept ....
Posted By: eotab Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:28 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: eotab
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Dude is living a charmed life. Wonder how long that spell will last?


Oh stop already...oh as you say, another good football post rolleyes



It may not have been a great football post, but there is some validity.

This is a big year for Baker. He had a real good year as a rookie. I won't say a bad year, but it wasn't good last year. This is where we kind of find out where it is going.

I chalk up last year to idiot offensive coaches who never got along and had it all screwed up from the beginning. It was like a coach by committee. That doesn't work.

I am a fan of Baker, just as I was of Tim Couch when we drafted him. I think you recall I wasn't a big fan of Timid after a few seasons.


Cause of several reasons here is an opinion rating the QBs not from last year stats.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...at-current-cost

Also Ski has stated: "He's as accurate as they come"

That is all that is being forgotten so one poster on this board is crusading an agenda that our QB sucks and his Agenda is being fulfilled as he has posters like yourself Peen questioning the validity that Baker is not a Franchise QB for us.

Here is the plain old fact: Baker is as accurate as QBs come. That is the NUMBER ONE Talent of a Franchise QB. Yes he was mechanically off - I say a simple fix as his inaccuracy was consistent in one area. He was throwing the ball a bit too high. I thought many of the ones to OBJ could have been caught but his injury left him without the vertical leap he normally would have. His throws to Landry were high but he caught them as most were catchable.

That can be fixed and might have been fixed already if we were on a normal practice schedule. Baker has been working out, don't know the situation now as things seem to be changing weekly with this Virus thing.

In a nut shell we have one of the most Accurate passers out there. I think in a normal course of action he would become the BEST QB in our Division..cause the fact is Lamar is one of the most INACCURATE Passers in the NFL and the positives with his legs will not hold up in the NFL although the kid has worked hard to get bigger to take the hits. He is a hard worker just things will go south fast. I think Cunningham was a much much better QB than Lamar but that was in the past things caught up with him just like they will with Lamar.

Us, we will get a LT in this draft...one much better than Robinson we upgraded RT tremendously. Will we get a RG also in this draft. Adding a solid TE who can block but has been utilized more for his route running and hands. The kid Hooper is a natural for a RPO scheme which we will run, not exclusively but definitely run. We have an offense who will showcase a running game and work off of playaction that will give Baker the time and COMFORT to be his ACCURATE SELF.

I don't buy the crapola Vers is selling. Not cause I hate him or something but simply he throws out some Words that are football but it doesn't make it true. I've heard some outright lies about him being Drunk and people repeating about him being FAT and Lazy...those are LIES.

Did he fall a bit behind in his training due to his off season marriage and the Honeymoon that followed. Yes, but I saw no drop off in his speed. He is not the fastest guy around but without a doubt he had the strongest arm last season. I think maybe he spent too much time with weights. But I'm guessing here as I don't know.

I cannot believe we have a definite sub par season on O but a lot a big part of that was our coaching debacle. But one poster and his agenda crusade has some of you actually thinking that we don't have our Franchise QB...one season his sophmore season and all of a sudden he is not a franchise QB...unbelievable!!

The kid is the real deal. He is one of the most Accurate QBs in the NFL...point blank. I'm hoping under Ski we will have an Offense that actually has a Character of who we are and what we do. That doesn't mean we will have a predictable offense. Actually I think with our Run and Pass possibilities with a new OL will make our O anything but predictable.

jmho
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:28 PM
Agreed, Purp.

And it never seems to be the reverse in Berea. Some fans are still flogging dead horses that went to heaven years earlier. Put away some 'H8' and concentrate on new challenges instead; there will obviously be years after this season to belittle problems and failures, and also to berate failures with second-guessing. Years.

Fans can make molehills outta mountains.
Go, Browns! brownie
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:31 PM
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Why is that so hard for ANYONE to accept ....


No one disagrees with that. I think people find it interesting that your boy would rather the Browns lose because of his personal dislike for a player than win with that player. We are supposed to be Browns fans right? I guarantee you if you personally knew every player on the team you wouldn't like more than half. Then to lie about the distraction that OBJ was and the impacts of that because he actually personally likes that player versus the player he doesn't like? At least Baker knew the plays right? Not knowing where to line up wasn't a distraction though? I mean this guy started a Baker, the Person thread. Come on.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:33 PM
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:34 PM
That would be an awesome sig for someone on here.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:36 PM
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
So now your considered a fair weather fan if u call bake out for his part in last years sheet show ... but if u didn’t say a word about bake last year that makes u a loyal fan ... makes perfect sense, got it ... rolleyes ...

Bake was the 2nd star in last years sheet show right behind the #1 star my boy ...

Why is that so hard for ANYONE to accept ....




You are changing the argument. The accusation was that Baker's girlfriend called Brown's fans idiots and front runners. . . Fate was showing that these accusations were not accurate.

As for you asking why is it so hard for people to accept ? I think you're doing the same thing as other posters and creating an argument against something no-one said. Baker was bad last year. All by himself. He needs to improve greatly. But there were other issues that added to Baker's struggles. Those have been discussed as issues to fix - not as excuses to imply Baker is blameless.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:42 PM
j/c:

So Dave............see what I mean about this forum and attacking the poster instead of the post? You have guys accusing others--or at least one other--of lying and then misquoting him to prove it.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:43 PM
Eo - I think we need to wait and see when we talk about accuracy and ability. 2019 Lamar was deadly with his legs AND he was accurate. His competition was 66% and 9th in the NFL ... Baker was 59% and 31st in the NFL. So not fair to say Baker is more accurate ... 2018 numbers Baker was more accurate (and the eye test showed how he made some exceptional NFL throws that not many could make) .... so the story is not complete yet. Lamar has really made me do a 180 on my opinion of him. I wouldn't downplay any aspect of his game, and Baker has to return to 2018 form to deserve any praise. just how I see it.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog


#cantwaittillheisgone



Talking of what posters actually post ... I missed this one. I did see you call him a piece of crap though. That was another nice football take.
Posted By: BCbrownie Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:54 PM
"The accusation was that Baker's girlfriend called Brown's fans idiots and front runners. . . Fate was showing that these accusations were not accurate."

I read that several times and it seems to me that is exactly what she said.
All it means to me is that she's going to have grow tougher skin.
Posted By: eotab Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 01:58 PM
Play action gave Lamar a lot of time and left the MIDDLE open for his WRs especially the kid from Baker's past Andrews but Lamar can be accurate up the middle without much pressure. But he is not that accurate on the outside.

They created something pretty new and it worked. Lamar also worked very hard and MADE HIMSELF BETTER, without a doubt the kid gets credit. I just don't see his "GREATNESS" lasting. Put pressure Hit him often especially when he runs. And protect the inside and force Lamar to throw outside.

I know his stats are good but all one has to do is look at him in game time and see how he was utilized and they executed their system very well. But when a good defense can game plan against him - he is not that effective. When the run game is taken away and they fall behind they will lose.

jmho
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 02:01 PM
She did say exactly what I said she did. Btw--I also never once called Baker "a drunk." I think I said he "drank too much" last off-season while compiling a list of other things that were factual, such as the not working w/a qb guru.

But, once again...........we are not talking about the Browns or Baker in the "Pure Football Forum." We're talking about poster's personalities. That is why I am in favor of a new forum. Those guys could play their silly little games ad nauseum over there and others who don't like reading that crap wouldn't have to go to that forum. Kinda like how the Political Forum was made to take the crap out of the EE forum.
Posted By: Halfback32 Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 02:02 PM
Originally Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper

But Dorsey and GW would have been locking horns


I'm pretty sure Dorsey realized this, which is probably one of the reasons Williams did not get offered the job permanently. I think Dorsey considered that in the hiring decision, plus the connection Baker seemed to have with Freddie, while Williams was acting HC. Dorsey just did not think a coach with Freddie's experience would disintegrate the way he did after becoming Head Coach.

Oh well .. live and learn
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 02:05 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Btw--I also never once called Baker "a drunk." I think I said he "drank too much" last off-season while compiling a list of other things that were factual, such as the not working w/a qb guru.


On what basis is the statement that he drank too much factual?
Posted By: jfanent Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 02:36 PM
Quote:
That is why I am in favor of a new forum. Those guys could play their silly little games ad nauseum over there and others who don't like reading that crap wouldn't have to go to that forum.


As my dad always said, "start no <crap> and there'll be none".
Posted By: Hammer Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 02:56 PM
He shotgunned a beer at an Indians game - c'mon. LOL.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 03:09 PM
j/c

Baker certainly was not nearly as accurate as he was in his rookie year. He regressed.

For anyone trying to point to Stefanski's comments as being an accurate description of Baker's play, that's just silly. HC's support their QB's. That's just what they're supposed to do. You don't undermine your starting QB.

We have two years of film on Baker. For those who have actually watched all of our games and can't honestly admit that Baker took a step back last year, they aren't being honest with themselves.

Were there factors outside of his play that led to our horrific season last year? Most certainly. But Baker certainly owns his part of it.

That's why, as per usual, Baker will be defined by what he does this season. Every rookie shouldn't be totally evaluated until after their third season.

We have seen the good Baker and the bad Baker. That's why I believe we have seen where his ceiling could go and what his floor might be.

This year will define him.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 03:10 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz


No one disagrees with that. I think people find it interesting that your boy would rather the Browns lose because of his personal dislike for a player than win with that player.


Thats not true ... its a lie .. but it fits in with the agendas around here and is the “popular’ thing to do ... Vers has made his feelings about Bake well known ... and here they are: and I’m not speaking for Vers ... he’s stated all these things multiple times .... plus he’ll let me know if i put words in his mouth ... *L* ...

- he thinks Bake behaves like a jerk at times and causes problems with the things he says
- he doesn’t like the fact Bake calls QB gurus that have helped some of the greatest QB’s in the game “broom sweepers” ... like there beneath him ...

- He doesn’t understand why OBJ gets crapped on for meaningless bs like shoes but bake can say whatever he wants and its fine .... the best part of this one ... no one whines about what Bake says but over the last week or so there’s been multiple posts about he may be maturing because he’s not responding to every criticism of him ...

- he thinks bake has a great arm and has a chance to be very good IF he can read D’s and get his accuracy issues under control ...

tabber if Kev said Bake’s as accurate as they come then we could be in trouble ... Bake was inconsistently accurate last year .... he STUNK last year bro ... make all the excuses about him u want ... even his rookie year he had a problem with high throws ... i respect your football opinion as much as anyone else’s on the board ... IF u think Bake was accurate last year that is just your baker colored glasses speaking ... sorry bro ... its true ...

- i am 100% sure Vers hopes Bake leads us to a SB victory .... and he’d be more than happy to eat that crow ....


Quote:
We are supposed to be Browns fans right?


Who that comes here isn’t ... Vers loves the browns as much as any of us .. going where u just went is just ignorant ... u know Vers is a browns fan ... in his way ... questioning the loyalty to the browns of anyone that comes here and leaves there heart on the board like most of us do is a joke on a good day ... yet, u went there ... thumbsdown

Quote:
I guarantee you if you personally knew every player on the team you wouldn't like more than half.


Not sure what the point is here .... for starters not every player on the team is the face of the franchise ... but again ... not sure what your point is ... don’t bother clarifying to me ... i won’t be posting on this thread again ... cause right now I’m doing just what i hate about this entire BS situation ...

Quote:
Then to lie about the distraction that OBJ was and the impacts of that because he actually personally likes that player versus the player he doesn't like?


Ya, that’s why he does it ... rolleyes ... its not like Vers has a history of sticking up for the person getting crapped on .... heck ... for as long as i can remember he’s been poo pooing a hire while the rest of the board says how much they love it .... only to end up sticking up for the hire when the board turns on them ...

sides have been drawn ... its been ugly between Vers and his posse since the Sashi/Hue crap ... both sides have dug in and most of the posts are 100% agenda based posts that aren’t a reflection of there true views ... like the fact u think Vers would rather see the browns lose cause of his disdain for bake ... that’s BS and u damm well know it yet u went there anyways ... see what i mean .. thumbsup


Quote:
At least Baker knew the plays right? Not knowing where to line up wasn't a distraction though? I mean this guy started a Baker, the Person thread. Come on.


Not knowing where to line up was a problem ... no excuse for that ... none ... it was more than a distraction it was negligence ... not knowing your job ...

I’ve said it multiple times as has Vers ... we’ll find out who Bake is this year ....

I know this will make me a non browns fan in your eyes and a fair weather fan in Bake’s wife eyes (at least she’s got an excuse for her BS .. it is her husband ... *L* ) but we’ll find out if Bake is a one read QB and can process what’s happening on the field fast enough to get the ball to the proper place ... we’ll find out if indeed he is accurate enough ....

Its really simple ... is bake the guy we saw his rookie year or is bake the guy we saw last year .... and I’m sure every last one of us want the same answer there ...

I’m out ... stay safe Rish .... thumbsup
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 04:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
She did say exactly what I said she did. Btw--I also never once called Baker "a drunk." I think I said he "drank too much" last off-season while compiling a list of other things that were factual, such as the not working w/a qb guru.

But, once again...........we are not talking about the Browns or Baker in the "Pure Football Forum." We're talking about poster's personalities. That is why I am in favor of a new forum. Those guys could play their silly little games ad nauseum over there and others who don't like reading that crap wouldn't have to go to that forum. Kinda like how the Political Forum was made to take the crap out of the EE forum.


That forum hasn't been created because you'd be the only poster who should be in there.
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 04:20 PM
I think Baker is on a short leash this year
You don't pay all that $$$$$ for a backup
Just to have wear a ball cap and signal plays in
Keenum has experience in Stefanskis system
Stefanski didn't draft Mayfield. He won't have
Any issues pulling Mayfield if he fails to
Produce pts and wins.
He's not going to wait till mid season
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 10:09 PM
Thanks, but let it go. They will just turn around and pick on you and Pit. In fact, they already have. I stopped replying to them awhile ago. I got sucked in a couple of times because they called me a liar. I provided links and fired back. Now, the new thing is to call me a liar all the time. I guess I have to let that go, too. The refs won't take action. It is what it is.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 10:24 PM
The agenda is alive and strong in this one.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 10:27 PM
Quote:
and I truly think [this is an opinion] that Baker resented having to earn the starting job.


This is not true at all. Baker was never given the chance to win the starting job. But skew as you must.
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 10:28 PM
I friggin hate this place anymore. Every freaking thread is the same. I come to read something about the subject of the thread and I have to sift thru dozens of posts with the same people going back and forth about calling each other liars, misrepresenting quotes, crying because people don't agree with their take. I sometimes have to go back to the top just to remember what the subject is.

What is needed here is a whining thread, so all the others would be about the subject. I swear it's like listening to a couple little kids arguing.

So now I will wait till someone replies with some crap like, "nice football post" or something along those lines. Anyone who feels like this is about them personally, has probably got a guilty conscience knowing it probably is.
Posted By: FATE Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 10:30 PM
Nice football post, Steubs. poke
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 10:32 PM
I haven't called anyone names despite being called out multiple times. And I won't call anyone names now. I won't insult them either. It's not a contest between two sides. It's one-sided.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 10:40 PM
Quote:
It's one-sided.



However, it's up to you to change that.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 10:44 PM
Quote:
and I truly think [this is an opinion] that Baker resented having to earn the starting job.



Again, you said this.

Baker was not given the opportunity to earn the starting job, right?

So are you lying or trying to deceive?

Just wondering for clarity...
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Baker Cont. - 04/04/20 11:49 PM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Quote:
and I truly think [this is an opinion] that Baker resented having to earn the starting job.



Again, you said this.

Baker was not given the opportunity to earn the starting job, right?

So are you lying or trying to deceive?

Just wondering for clarity...


Are you referring to - if my memory serves - Baker not having any first team reps at any point during preseason? Maybe he didn't have any first team reps until Tyrod was injured and Baker had to step on an play? I don't know if that's accurate, but that's kind of what i remember.... he then instantly looked 10 times the QB Tyrod had ever been imo ... so whehter he had reps or not - he was most definitely not the starter when he clearly should have been.

As for the wild speculation that Baker hated everyone around him and the coaching staff. . . . I'll leave that alone. I guess I could see how if you really loathe him, you could twist anything into seeing those things.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/05/20 01:02 AM
Originally Posted By: jfanent
Quote:
That is why I am in favor of a new forum. Those guys could play their silly little games ad nauseum over there and others who don't like reading that crap wouldn't have to go to that forum.


As my dad always said, "start no <crap> and there'll be none".


Great advice, but I haven't quoted other posters and trashed them. My comments were about Baker. And the Browns. I did not bring in other posters. Other posters tried bashing me. So, would your pops side w/me or them?
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Baker Cont. - 04/05/20 01:36 AM
Who cares? A smart person would drop it.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/05/20 01:41 AM
I am NOT going to drop it. I didn't insult anyone. I posted my thoughts about Baker on a "Baker" thread in the Pure Football Forum. That is talking football.

Others, you included, tried to make it personal. You attack the poster and not address the topic.

I was going to leave the board due to such despicable characters running rampant in this forum, but you know what, I'm going to fight back. I'll post my damn thoughts no matter what you guys say.
Posted By: jfanent Re: Baker Cont. - 04/05/20 01:57 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Originally Posted By: jfanent
Quote:
That is why I am in favor of a new forum. Those guys could play their silly little games ad nauseum over there and others who don't like reading that crap wouldn't have to go to that forum.


As my dad always said, "start no <crap> and there'll be none".


Great advice, but I haven't quoted other posters and trashed them. My comments were about Baker. And the Browns. I did not bring in other posters. Other posters tried bashing me. So, would your pops side w/me or them?


He didn't take sides. When he said that everyone got the message and the bickering stopped.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Baker Cont. - 04/05/20 02:00 AM
Follow his advice. Once again, I didn't trash another poster. I gave my thoughts on Baker on a Baker thread. Others decided to trash me. You liked those posts.

How about we keep it to the Browns and football instead of this dumb-ass personality crap?
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Baker Cont. - 04/05/20 02:05 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I am NOT going to drop it. I didn't insult anyone. I posted my thoughts about Baker on a "Baker" thread in the Pure Football Forum. That is talking football.

Others, you included, tried to make it personal. You attack the poster and not address the topic.

I was going to leave the board due to such despicable characters running rampant in this forum, but you know what, I'm going to fight back. I'll post my damn thoughts no matter what you guys say.



I've made exactly 4 posts in this thread, including this one. 4.

My first post was a general question asking if anyone had ever played qb before, even in high school.

My next post was in reply to you. Here it is:
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

I think the dude is a piece of crap.


Suffice it to say you have made that abundantly clear.


My 3rd post was explaining that a smart person would just drop it. This is my 4th post in this thread.

You posted your thoughts, and that is talking football? Others post their thoughts, and that is not?

I've made nothing personal, however, you have. And not at me. Pretty much at anyone that disagrees with you. It seems the issue would be pretty easy to solve. Let it go.
© DawgTalkers.net