There it is.

Whaaaaaat?

j/c;

Not surprising at all, given the finish to the season.

Thought so

Figured it'd be tonight....

Now we see if JD is here

An easy and obvious decision.

Freddie won’t have attend all those meetings tomorrow!

Whether any of us like it or not it had to be done. We didn't improve from the 1st game until the last game. There really was no reason to keep him based on the season we had.

Unfortunately, there has been a lot of "admitting mistakes and moving on" within the past year.

If so, there is no way he can be trusted to lead another HC search, right?

Leave it to the Browns to hire a coach that was worse than Hue. It was an almost impossible challenge, but the Browns managed to find a way.

About time..

Don't even joke about that. Hue Jackson went 1-15 one year and then had to jump in Lake Erie because he actually did worse the following season.

I feel bad for Kitchens because he seems to be a very caring person and a nice guy. He just was in over his head.

Washington meeting with Rivera tomorrow

On to the next up and comer for a season..then start over again..

Not individually

What took so long

j/c:

I think OBJ, Njoku, Higgins, and Landry are throwing a party tonight.

Thank God! Being incompetent and arrogant is not a good combination.

Freddie got his money. Good for him. And good for the Browns for not turning this into another Hue Jackson saga.

Hopefully the organization will exercise due diligence and make the best choice for the players and the fans going into 2020. We certainly deserve it after this latest decade of disdain.

And Higgins and Njoku

[social:tweet]https://twitter.com/Browns/status/1211451686717407232/photo/1[/social]

Duly noted.....and added to OP.

Agree with that 100% ... I bet if any of us spent time with FK - either work or personal life - I almost guarantee we'd love him. Too fast an ascent and not prepared for the difference level of responsibility.

Not surprised. I wanted him to succeed, but it started off bad and never got any better. Definitely the most grueling, mentally draining and exhausting of seasons and worse than our 1-15 and 0-16 season, imho.

Dee and Jimmy didn't sugarcoat that statement.

holy poop

Maybe Higgins and Njoku will get another chance under a new HC ...

No, they did not.

Now it truly feels like a Browns Christmas....

Nope, basically Freddie tried but sucked

Agreed. IMO with the right coaching hire, a good draft and FA signings we can compete next year for a playoff spot. With the right coaching we could have made it this year, minus the suspensions of course.

Good guy, bad coach. It was the right move. They HAVE to get it right this time and do whatever it takes to make that happen.

So with Dorsey giving a statement does thwt mean he's safe?

Too bad the Haslams are still the owners.

This was the right move imo.

Bitter sweet, but the right move none the less.

Dorsey is gone if the coach is McDaniels. It's that simple.

He has a chance to stick around with anyone else.

He is definitely safe.

YES!!!!!

The Browns will never be good because of them.

That was about 100 grit.

Hopefully Higgins and Njoku will get another chance. They both have talent to help this team. Then again so did Avery.

Bye bye Fred. Guess it isn't as easy as you thought it was.

It sure seems like it.

You never know with this team though.

Comprehensive approach, my ass. If Haslam, et al had applied this comprehensive approach before, McDermott would be the head coach, but no - Jimmah wanted Hubris. If we applied this approach last year, Stefanski would probably have been the head coach, but Dorsey ( who know what leaders of men are - LOL), selects Kitchens.

I like Freddie but he is no "Leader of Men". The Browns have not a had a leader since Marty.

They HAD to get it right this year. I have zero faith they know how to pick a high quality coach.

I hate to see a 1 year coach get fired but he was a poor play caller, bad decision maker, failed continuously to learn from previous mistakes, and clearly did have leadership qualities that is required to coach a team in the NFL. Good luck

meeting one was to announce, he's out,

2nd, was to say/appreciate/threaten, who wants to still be a Brown,

3rd meeting was to say they have a plan/process/structure to move forward,

and then everyones excused to go start drinking as realize there's no plan/process/structure except what's been tried in the past.

No worries.

I said in the off season if FK didn't make the playoffs he was one and done
What did he so eloquently say after he got hired.
IF YOU DON'T WEAR BROWN AND ORANGE YOU DON'T MATTER
GUESS WHAT TUBBY .....YOU DON'T MATTER

One thing I want from a New Coach,

Can they go one year without any player-games lost to suspension!

Time to get McCarthy!

I always thought that was a terrible quote and was a little disheartened that it caught on as much as it did.

I can understand the "onto the next opponent" mentality as a way to focus players, but that was not the context.

It matters what other teams do.. how they play, who their coaches are, what schemes they run, and so on. You can't be a great team if you don't understand the league and the teams that are in it.

The biggest thing for me is that it was OBVIOUS he didn't know what he was doing. It doesn't appear that he asked for help especially the play calling. The continuous nonsense he spewed at his pressers and the whole "1-0" thing were irritating. There was no apparent ability to lead this team. Lack of discipline, repeatedly not having the team ready to play and his in game management mishaps are also on the list of reasons to have removed him.

So, in the last 20 years, I'm coming up with 11 head coaches for the browns? (including interim head coaches like williams, etc.) Do I have that right?

Just get someone with some proven track record, respect, and discipline. Then get the best OC you can

Discipline. If you can't control these guys you're going to get trampled. Freddie got absolutely steam rolled. The players may not like the next man up for what he might bring but it is needed.

Jimmy Haslam is a loser as an owner. He stinks this organization up and I'm sorry that I can't muster ANY confidence in what he does.

You are basically saying a rudderless ship.

Confirmed.

MCCARTHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I second that … +1

It better be worth it.

It BETTER be worth it. Freddie was trash, but if we hire another 1st year HC with barely any coordinator experience, then what was the point?

It better be a guy with a very good resume.

Freddie has no one to blame but himself. His inexperience coupled with a ridiculous arrogance and the inability to learn from his mistakes made this inevitable.

I have no faith in the Ownership or the GM to find a competent replacement.

Cheers!

NO BLEEPING COORDINATORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like Dorsey is staying put, which is a good thing. We just need to get the right coach this time. Kitchens was an extreme gamble in the first place, getting the job basically from a 6 game resume as an Offensive Coordinator. The fact that he didn't bother to retain much of the staff from the 6-2 staff from last season put a fork in any continuity we might have hoped to maintain. It was evident right away that the team lacked focus and discipline, and that leadership from the top was missing.

I absolutely hate firing coaches/front-offices and want to maintain continuity as much as possible. But this was an unmitigated disaster. Keeping this continuity would do nothing but set the franchise back and probably destroy any chance Baker had of being a franchise QB. Say what you want about Hue, but his players always seemed to play for him. Freddy's players quit on him 3 games ago. He had to go.

Let's hope we can get someone who can hold everyone accountable, and get all the egos out of Berea. Coaches included. I feel like this whole season has been one big ego trip from Dorsey on down. Everyone felt they'd be unstoppable after going 6-2 last year, and felt they could do no wrong.

Chris Palmer
Butch Davis
Terry Robiskie (interim)
Romeo Crennel
Eric Mangini
Pat Shurmur
Rob Chudzinski
Mike Pettine
Hubris Jackson
Gregg Williams (interim)
Freddie ain't Ready

11 sounds right.

i think williams would of been better.

Freddie WASN'T Ready~~!!

Not me. I think we are blessed that Mike McCarthy is still available

whatever

You know what I mean.

I agree 100% - I wanted him gone. I just have some feelings for the guy as he seemed genuine and a real nice guy. For me - as annoying as some of the pressers and apparent attitude was ... I believe it was as a result of pressure and the newness of so much responsibility. End of the day it's a very tough industry - but he got extremely well compensated for his hire and firing.

I guess to try and imagine what the change was like - any of us with a job working for an organization - imagine on Monday trying to do your boss's boss's job. No matter what you *think* you know - and no matter how much you think you can do better than your boss, when you do fill their shoes, there is ALWAYS a ton of intricacies or just "stuff" you have to learn how to deal with that you didn't know about before ... taking 2 steps up is a huge deal.

I was on record to fire him at the bye. We should’ve done it then.

Thank God this is OVER,

Bring back Mangini he did more with less and this will not be a @#$% show football team, it will be greatness returning to the lake.

Thanks. That's what I thought.

Next question: What coach in their right mind would want to go to a team that in 20 years has fired 11 coaches?

He better be. He has assembled more talent than any other GM since the return. If they fire him and clean house again I'm done. That I won't abide.

I see all of Freddie Fan Club have gone into hiding now

I think we'll be surprised. I'd sign a 3-5 year contract for a years worth of work!!!

I liked Mangini as a HC ... not as a GM.

Because the Knight that can pull Excalibur from the stone, will be King!

Sad to see it happen because freddie for the most part was one of us. Blue collar guy. If anyone is to blame even more its Dorsey. He should have taken another year before trying to win right away with all these personalities. It's alot for any coach, 100x worse for a guy thats never been more than a position coach. He should have trusted his people more and went with Stefanski. That being said, Freddie did himself no favors being a control freak about the play calling. Should have been Monken from day one while Freddie acclimated..

I’m still confused as to why people are blaming the Haslams for this. Dorsey said he wanted Freddie, they said OK. That’s why he was hired, right?

Are you crazy? The last thing we need is Manweenie. We need a REAL coach not a Bill Belichick wanna-be.

No kidding. They wasted no time. I hope they at least called him an Uber.

I would be shocked if Mike McCarthy signed on the dotted line with Dorsey still here. Maybe in Carolina ..

What is Marvin Lewis up to?

Yeah McCarthy is a pipe dream as long as Dorsey is here. Then again it might not be Dorsey's call and we might have another situation where the HC doesn't report to GM

The one shining light we didn't have in the past is the roster. It's the ONLY thing that can entice a good coach.

Hopefully staying away from Berea.

"Comprehensive approach" means that we will watch all of the other teams take the best available.

Stefanski and Zimmer have got to get interviews I'd think.

I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.

That was funny ... I hope not true, but funny.

Not shocked at all. Still, soooo tired of seeing this movie. Now it is time for the Browns fan annual "what if's" filled offseason. Followed by glimmers of faith and hope. Closely followed with tempered expectations. Then most predictably guaranteed sadness and grief…. Yawn!!! Someone write a new script for Pete's sake!

Zimmer is still employed.

Except there is a major question mark at the most important position.

I think you almost need a retread at this point. Some known commodity in which to gauge where you are as a team..then you don't get the whole is it talent or coaching. Thats why I want no part of a college coach or rookie HC's Give me McCarthy, Caldwell, Rivera, Pagano, Hell, pull Brian Billick or Dungy out of retirement with a blank check

Its just good old Deja Vu!

What about McDaniels?

No Thanks.

wonder if Dorsey will get to "flex" his muscles again.

I vote No

I would not be opposed to McDaniels.

Dan Campbell with Joe Brady as OC.

Even if Dorsey survives, he is weakened considerably, IMO. He spent a lot of capital hiring Kitchens, along with some of his personnel moves. I'm not encouraged that Haslam is apparently taking the lead with the new coach search.

I kind of like this.

There is, but the talent is there at least. Baker regressed in a huge way, but it seems at least a pay of that was Kitchens. It's obvious the players didn't buy in. His play calling sucked.

Baker needs to improve a ton, but he is still way better then anything we had in the past.

It will be tough to pry him away from Foxboro, I think. If he would be able to bring the Pats offense here, the players on the roster would make it viable. Chubb and Hunt, Landry, Njoku, Mayfield. I think the Pats offense would be one in which Mayfield would thrive.

LSU OC is a better job than OC of the Browns. Joe Brady needs a head coach interview.

Dorsey is demoted.

He is lucky to still have his job after this horrendous Freddie hire.

I don't really like the idea of mcdaniels, he was really bad with denver and he seems flaky as hell, but if he's packaged with Caserio I'd consider it. People forget, Tom brady was good before Mcdaniels, its not like he made Brady. Any BB disciple is a huge gamble. Has there ever even been one with a winning season..lol

coaching the fighting illini

I’m skeptical of all the Belichick guys. It’s impossible to know how much Belichick contributes.

Kill this thread.
Why do we now care...
From his mouth
‘If you don’t wear orange and brown, you don’t matter.’

As long as we are talking about retreads, which is a derisive way of saying someone who has proven themselves, I still like Jeff Fisher. And I know I am about to get clobbered, but his teams were always tough.

Tough and not good.

McDaniel was a bust as St. Louis Ram OC too. Of course just about everyone was a bust there too in St. Louis’ last 10 years.

Solid point. History shows that his coordinators often fail when taking the next step.

they have to interview a minority... that better not be our DC (Wilkes).

Jeff Fisher would be an amazing hire!

Fixed it for you.

Jeff Fisher would be an amazingly bad hire!

Cincy bound with Joe B.

If Fisher would hire a really good OC and leave him alone....maybe. His offenses were the problem for the most part. His defenses were ok. After all, he was a safety under Buddy Ryan.

I'd rather have them dump a truck of money on Cowher's lap if we're going for a guy who has been out of the game for more than a couple of years.

What does playing safety for Buddy Ryan have to do with coaching in 2020?

This is insane.

That could be truly ugly. But it might work. I could live with McCarthy.

I am really interested in coordinators immediately. Can a defense that can't get off the field against about everybody still worth keeping? I do not think we have the LBs for this scheme or the scheme is poor. As for an offense with some premier talent that just stalled and a QB who was a turnover factory this year, should it be kept. Is all the disappointment starting and ending with FK? Because I think we had little NFL offensive success like the playoff teams. And it didn't post gaudy numbers against the teams it should have shredded. We were predictable, dumb, and goofy. Repeatedly. Not sure all of that leaves with FK. I think as a team, we ended the season worse than when we started and managed to avoid winning some early games.
Thanks, Freddie for some honest work and sincere caring for Cleveland. Learn from this, and good luck. No "1-0" speeches here though. You are your record and your losses.

Hahaha!!! That's how I feel about hiring Jeff Fisher.

Both are nonsensical.

Or never tough enough. Not what we need IMO.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/29/browns-fire-freddie-kitchens/

Posted by Michael David Smith on December 29, 2019, 7:55 PM EST

Freddie Kitchens is one-and-done in Cleveland.

The Browns fired Kitchens today after finishing the 2019 season with a 6-10 record, PFT has confirmed.

The news doesn’t come as a surprise, as the Browns were one of the NFL’s most disappointing teams this season. The preseason hype was off the charts in Cleveland, and many fans, bettors and members of the media expected the Browns to make the playoffs. Instead, they were never in contention.

At the same time, it’s hard not to wonder how the Browns can ever succeed if they keep making changes so quickly. Since Jimmy Haslam bought the team, only one coach has been given a third year — and that was Hue Jackson, whose tenure in Cleveland was a disaster.

Now it’s back to the drawing board for Cleveland, where the Browns need to find someone who can take a roster that looks talented on paper and turn it into a much better team than 6-10.

Saw this coming. It had to be done.

Correct! Mine was a joke, though.

Bill Cowher and Strongsville are trending in Cleveland on Twitter.

Who is Charles Robinson?

National NFL writer for Yahoo. He gets some scoops.

I feel bad for him also.You're right, Kitchens was clearly in over his head. I'm sure he will be hired by another team. Just not as HC.

Former WCW referee before WWE bought them out.

Not thrilled next year we will have the 7th overall pick then everybody will be saying fire dorsey then draft the3 rd available qb.

He made alot of money for being a buffoon.
More than any of us might ever see.
I think Kitchens ends up in the new XFL as a
Special teams assistant

Oh! Okay I thought he was some kid by his avatar.

lil naitch hahaha

j/c...

Geez, this actually seems mean...

well that would be an awkward flight/bus ride back from Cin...if they let him on either. Hope he leased his condo and didn't buy.

My pick is Tony Dungy, a defensive minded coach who is a proven leader of men

People are tearing into them for posting that photo.

Pretty sad. This is all on Dorsey.

It's a video.

As they should. Let him have privacy in his lowest moment.

Whoomp.....

Agree. I didn't like him much as a coach, but he seemed like a good human. This is trashy reporting.

Totally depressing. It stinks seeing people getting their dreams crushes every year.

Dorsey posted this video?

dorsey has fired two coaches.

In 15 months. He better get better soon.

3

That's supposed to be funny?

FAIL

FL_Dawg - Nah it was WKYC Channel 3...creeping at the gates

Including me.

Ty

Freddie had his chance, what do you want another Hue Jackson?

Hire Mike McCarthy

Any chance the Chargers are dumb enough to fire Anthony Lynn? If so, he would be a GREAT hire IMO.

Frickin' low life media.

I'll take the zero on that one.

wkyc is a garbage station anyways...Cleveland media is easily the worst in the nation..bunch of clickbaiting hacks

Should a never got hired in the first place

Maybe Kitchens can wear a shirt that says
"Pittsburgh started it...but Cleveland fired me"

No, and that's the problem. It scares me as a fan of this team, that I am not quite sure these people (the Haslams) don't know what they are doing when it comes to picking the right people to get this franchise in order. Obviously hiring Dorsey has brought us better talent, but coaching is just as important as talent, and they look really dumb after hiring a guy who started the 2018 as a positional coach.

It is totally unfair to Freddie to not give him more than a year, if you look at his side of things, but I think we realized his potential about 3 quarters of the way through when they couldn't win against a beat-up pittsburgh team starting an undrafted rookie at QB. They have been unprepared in most games.

There's no way you could give this guy another year, because the textbook says coaches need multiple years to build systems, relationships, etc.. because it really wasn't going to get that much better.

I just hope they get it right, otherwise things next year at this time could get REAL ugly.

Currently Pettine is trending on Twitter.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It doesn't matter because that list of coaches is about as long as the list of coaches who, in their right mind, are actually willing to work for Jimmah Haslam and Lord Dorsey.

Crap runs down hill.

Especially since it's rumored that Haslam likes McDaniels, I think he's overrated. like most NE coordinators, it's a system that Bill runs well, all other NE guys taht have gotten HC shots have failed.

They took it down... now they are trying to cover it up.

What was it?

j/c...

Brutal.

A snippet from Jason Lloyd's article in The Athletic...

As the season circled the drain these last few weeks, a handful of Browns players privately began shredding Kitchens. I don’t know if it was the majority who were unhappy with him or just a vocal minority. I do know that I’ve been doing this a long time and I haven’t heard players speak about a coach the way some of these guys ripped Kitchens. Simply put, too many believed he didn’t know what he was doing.

I'm not happy we continue to not have continuity, but, as many of you have already said, this firing needed to be done. Now it's on to the next HC.

Personally, I'd like Rivera, I read he's meeting with the Skins tomorrow, if they don't jump in and sign him, I'd be on the phone with him.

I truly hope it's not McDaniels, I don't trust the NE coaching tree, it's been a terrible failure, with Strong, RAC, Mangini, and McDaniels first go as Denver's HC. No Thanks.

I'd rather give a good OC a shot and yes, I actually prefer OC's over DC's as HC's, just my pet peeve. lol Now, I'd back McCarthy if he's hired but I can't say that I'm not skeptical, at both him being hired and how he would do.

Another thing that will need addressing, the OL. It's not good and with mighty mouse at QB, he will need some solid protection. Although, was thinking, can we package Baker and Njoku and get a No.2? If so, we pick at No.10, trade 10, the 2, and next years first to the Giants, who are at pick 4, then we can draft Jalen Hurts. Bengals pick 1, they're taking Burrow, Skins pick 2, they got Haskens, Lions pick 3, they won't go QB, so we coudl have Hurts at 4. Sounds good too me.

I don't trust the Haslems to do anything right.

Why would you?

I don't see any respectable coach coming here knowing he will be fired after a year. We'll likely get stuck with another rookie head coach. We've constantly fired people for 20 years and it has not produced any positive results. Eventually they need to give a coaching staff time.

A respectable coach that does a good job won't be fired after one year. All thos coaches we've had and fired, deserved it, except Kyle Shannahan, but I think he chose to leave. Garbage coaches get fired, good coaches stay hired.

Yes - Jalen Hurts. There is the answer - wtf.

I hated the hire to HC. He should have been OC at best but the only way to keep him in town was to make him HC. Doomed philosophy from the start.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I never bought into the hype. Watching the drama through training camp and then getting blown out opening day at home along with 18 penalties, was no shock to me. I longed for consistent improvement and then got tastes of what could be only to be brought back to reality, that he was just not HC material at this point in time.

He's taller than mighty midget, so he won't get every other pass batted down, he's a winner (except LSU but that was on the whole team, their D gave up the points, not Hurts), he can scramble and run, plus, he's a good passer. He'll go second at QB behind Burrows.

Now, I think Baker has talent, but he was compared to Drew Brees, and by Drew himself, I've never seen Brees look as bad as Baker has looked at times this season. I'm betting Brees would like to retract that statement.

Browns record under the ownership of one Jimmah Haslam from 2012-2019:

33-94-1

That's a winning percentage of .262

Makes you almost long for the days of Randy Lerner who went 56-104 .350 while not caring.

So who is at the presser tomorrow morning? Dorsey or Haslam or both? If DePodesta is there I would take it as a sign of things to come. If Dorsey is going to stick around then I think he would have to answer some tough questions (that will not be asked).

I'm not a fan of either era, I'd like to see some winning football in Cleveland, on a consistent basis. That would be something new and refreshing.

I'm guessing you never watched Brees in his first 3 seasons? When he was benched for Flutie?

But most HC contracts are written for 3 or 4 years with an option year. Freddie doesn’t need to go to the unemployment office tomorrow

Ha! One might say it's the greatest gig in sports. 1 year of work with 3-4 yrs paid vacation.

Freddie had to go, but it just goes to show the total ineptness of this dumpster fire franchise.

How many head coaches will we be paying next year? (after researching) I guess it will only be two - Kitchens and whomever we hire next. Hue Jackson's contract comes off the books after this 2019 season. Pettine's came off the books after 2017.

Just think in 2016 we paid Chudzinski, Pettine AND Jackson to coach the Browns. And all three of them stunk! LOL (I'd actually take Pettine back in a heartbeat).

Depo to the rescue. They should have listened to him the last few hires. John needs to get over his distaste for what Depo brings.

Drew Brees' 1st 3 season amounted to 29 TDs and 31 Ints. His 3rd season was 11 TD and 15 INT. He was bad enough for the Chargers to get the 1st overall pick and draft Manning/trade down for Rivers. Then his 4th season he exploded to 27 TD to 7 INT and turned in to the Franchise QB.

It is a hard stat to think about. On the other hand, at least Haslam wasn't cheap about it and kept them around for another 2-3 seasons. It's a good thing coaching doesn't count against the cap. If it did, we would be in big trouble.

The case against Fred was he took a 10-12 win team and won 6 the case for Mangini was he took a 2 win team and won 5.

The Browns as we speak have as much talent as any team in the league and won 6 games that is why Fred got fired. Mangini got fired for winning 5 games with a 2 win team, you just never could understand that.

I see some things never change....

Brees sucked his 1st few years in the league his last season in SD he started really flashing then when he left in FA and landed in NO his career took off.

Mayfield needs to eliminate all and every distraction and focus on football. The next head coach can help him by building the Browns to run the football 1st.

That video is tough to see, because we can all relate to being crushed and depressed (whatever that moment is).

I just saw it quickly, but it appeared like he went back in the building for something? And they didn’t let him ... or shuffled him back outside quickly?

I thought Mangini was a good coach. I don't think we look back at this point.

I'd trust you a lot more if you could correctly name Alabama's QB.

Unless you truly mean Jalen Hurts, in which case...don't make scouting your day job.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12...ilm-review.html

I don't want McDaniels. The ONLY thing going for him is that he's already had a spell as a HC that was a failure so if he did get the gig here in CLE there is a chance that he learned from that? But I really want a proven guy. McCarthy or Rivera. After those two choices there is a big big drop off. There was an interesting article with info on Harbaugh the other day - I'd forgotten how well he did in San Fran. While he has been average in Michigan, maybe he's just a better NFL coach? He might be 3rd choice right now since I really don't want to take a chance going the up and coming coordinator option.

This is pretty damning. I don’t live in Cleveland but I follow the team intensely. I don’t remember Donovan ever criticizing an outgoing coach.

Edit: The tweet link I posted got deleted. It was Jim Donovan criticizing Kitchens.

He was even doing it on air! Saying it’s ridiculous that we’re so ill-prepared, etc. Jimmy has a good pulse on the team obviously ... and he’s right. It’s time to make Baker be COACHED and held accountable as the QB

more of a shot at Lindley, which I haven't seen one person say he's a good coach..but in the end thats on FK as well

What makes you think Baker isn't being held accountable for his performances already?

I think it was pretty obvious from the get-go. He told Baker in the off-season to "not worry about football" for a few months, and had a nonchalant approach towards guys missing OTAs in the off-season. That attitude sort of spilled over into the rest of the season, where it felt like everyone just thought we'd win on our talent alone. Baker needs a coach pushing him to be better. Not one trying to be his buddy.

Every guy who has had a head coaching job failed or he wouldn't available. Relevancy time frame is usually pretty small. McD, if honest to himself, hopefully sorted his shortcomings out. Every good man should be doing just that. I'm liking Roman and McD. Josh should take Carolina unless he's absolutely infatuated with being a Brown.

I would take Baker over the uncertainty of Cam Newton. I would take David Tepper (and basically every other owner) over the Haslams.

One year ago, I got flamed hard for saying Freddie sounded like a big dumb hick and hoped he wasn't actually. I know I shouldn't expect apologies...

All of Freddies fan club are in hiding or they no longer post.they can't admit they were wrong

Does this make you feel better about being "right" about Freddie? Ugh...

I wasn't really on board with the Freddie hire, but I don't have the stomach for kicking a guy while he's down (like the clowns employed by the Cleveland media), or even gloating about who was 'right/wrong' about the hire. Yuck...

j/c...

Re: the "Freddie Fan Club"...

Freddie was basically hired because of his playcalling as interim OC, his work tweaking Haley's offense into something that worked surprisingly well, and having Baker playing pretty solid ball. For me, I was hoping they would promote him simply by dropping the interim tag, and bring in someone that could potentially groom him for the HC position (and that person was available, in Arians).

Now, fast forward to today... we all saw what we saw on the field week in and week out. We "knew" that Kitchens might not be the most solid leader in terms of discipline and everything else that goes into leading a team, but the most shocking thing was how bad he ended up being at the things that got him hired...

1. Putting together an offense that got all his guys playing really well.
2. Calling plays well.

Those 2 elements were not only bad, but were ridiculously and hilariously bad. And those were the things that got him hired!!!

I'm just shocked how a person/staff can go from one extreme to another over a single offseason. It's mind-blowing.

I;m not sure why you think you'd be entitled to one? There's nothing about his failures this season that proves he was a "big dumb hick".

I didn't care for his hiring to begin with, but there were plenty of reasons in favor of it, plenty of reasons to be critical or skeptical of his selection.

Unless you are looking for validation in being discriminatory and prejudiced? That would be weird...

I wanted Arians or Williams. I would have been happy with McCarthy. I just wanted a decent, experienced head coach. Was tired, and still am, of On The Job Trainees.

I think Freddie cost himself the job by not letting Monken call plays, at worst he could have fired monken and bought himself another year..But I venture to say that Monken calling plays with his offense we would prob be in playoffs.

I'd say it's in his own tone. He's already being dismissive of the need for a private coach in the off season... because he doesn't need anyone to teach him how to do a three step drop. That may be true, but it was clear even to me that his mechanics sucked this year. When it's obvious a person needs to improve, and admit as much, it's usually not a good sign when they are prematurely deciding what they don't need to do.

This isn't to say that he's played it Lone Wolf all year. I think it's just that no one in the organization has sat him down and laid out for him what its going to take to be successful, how much time and effort it will take.

I'm not sure that a person or staff went from one extreme to the other.

Freddie was promoted into a completely different job and both the OC and DC were changed. The staff was pretty much overhauled and very few parts of the 2018 staff were still here in 2019.

I was not in favor of naming Freddie the HC. I didn't throw a fit about it and I'm certainly not one to toot my own horn and say I told you so. But I think as we can now all see it was too much, too soon for Freddie.

I was hoping to see him evolve and things to progress over the course of the season but alas that simply didn't happen. If anything, both the Cardinals and Bengals games showed regression.

I saw regression as well, but sometimes I feel like it wasn't so much regression as what felt to me like we ran out of ideas within the first few Weeks? Most of the latter half of the season was stuff we'd already seen before. Plenty of opponents essentially said as much.

I guess maybe it's semantics. If you are failing and not correcting the reasons you're failing, I consider that regression.

Edit; I guess stagnation may have been more appropriate.

I was hoping to spark some more thought-provoking convo. I'm not a fan of the "haha, told you so" posts about a guy that just got fired.

I also just think it's crazy that a guy that was hired almost solely based on 3 things

1. Mayfield looking good
2. His crafting of an offense on the fly
3. Playcalling

could flip those things 180 in a matter of 1 offseason. The 3 things that landed him the job got so so SO bad the moment he became head coach. That boggles my mind.

It really doesn't surprise me that much. We've seen all too many times people who performed very well as both OC's and DC's simply aren't cut out for the head coaching role. That's a big step up and with Freddie, very little experience in anything even remotely close to such a role only compounded the problem.

And we all have our opinions and for the most part they are just that. I don't actually believe that Freddie "crafted on offense on the fly" last year. There simply wasn't time in mid season for that to happen. I think most of it was the already in place system of Haley's with some wrinkles here and there. Even at that, we could have never have ran that same offense this season.

I know we were very predictable this season but the same would have been said had we stuck with the very simple offense we had last year. Once teams had ample film on Baker and what we were doing last season, the whole thing would have folded.

I feel like we were outcoached almost every game this season. Even wins we were outcoached but we were just more talented. Most notable the Jets and Bengals wins felt like losses.

It was hard to watch this season and we never seemed to get on track.

Jim Donovan said it well....

We certainly didn't see the progress one would hope to see develop. Unlike many, I expected a slow start given the schedule and inexperience of Kitchens. But as far as progress, there was zero evidence that was happening.

If we kept Freddie I would have had a very uneasy feeling during the whole offseason based on the way I saw us play. I didn't feel things were going to get better if we kept him. I hate to see another coach of ours get fired so quickly but I believe in the long run it was the best thing to do. Maybe now if we find the right HC and add some good players we can make that playoff run next year.

Mangini is the biggest pile of crap that the franchise ever hired.

And there has been a lot of crap piles.

Played favorites, had team spies.

j/c

My holiday wish last year was to keep as much the same as possible. That meant taking the 'interim' label off FK's OC post, hiring Williams as HC, and finding a new DC. Minimal disruption, minimal upheaval.

So of course, CLE had to disrupt as many avenues and channels as possible, because that's what CLE always does. Cyclic insanity.

That's why I was calling 8-8 most of the year.

Too many folk that predicted 10-6 or better are now ready to use razors on their wrists as they jump from the Terminal Tower. I suspect that a good many of those fans looked past the 'startup syndrome' that has perennially plagued this team for 20 years.

We will never know how good an OC Kitchens might have made because he was too busy being a bad HC. And we will never know how good a HC Kitchens might have made because he was too busy being a bad OC.

If you are looking for immediate success, you give a man ONE freakking job to learn/master. You don't give him two full-time jobs when he had zero experience with one, and only 2 months experience at the other.

John Dorsey put together a Lamborghini, then tossed the keys to a 16 yr-old Kitchens who was still operating on a temp driver's license.

Dumb ish at the top leads to dumb football at the bottom.

Barring a Holy Lightning Strike, this experiment had a lot more 'fail' baked into it than just about any other outcome.

I'm disappointed, but not surprised in the least.

I actually wish FK a solid, happy future. He seems like the kind of guy who could have a long rewarding career as position coach. No shame in that whatsoever. Friends with the players, liked and respected for his knowledge and experise, right amount of responsibility for his personality make up. Better to become really good at one thing, than to be lousy at lots of things.

_________________________


Many years ago, I was offered an admin post at my job. Big pay boost, new skills to learn, change of profile. I asked to see the job description in writing. Two days later, I got that job description. Took me about 10 minutes to realize that it wasn't for me. Not because the job itself was too much. It was because I knew that my on-stage playing would suffer, my admin learning curve would be slowed because of the rehearsal/concert schedule, and that I'd fail to do justice to either job. Smartest decision I ever made.

It's too bad that FK lacked the same level of self-awareness. He might have actually been good at one or the other.

Now, let's see what fresh insanity CLE will concoct to dismantle the team we have in favor of building a new untested team with unrealized potential.

That's the Cleveland way.
#groundhogday/356
#sotiredofthis


.02

I hate to say it but I still thought they’d give him another year. Damn glad they didn’t. He cost us big this year by not instilling discipline like Williams did. Our defense sucked without Williams. And Garrett is the example of no discipline.

Lol ......yep he was...it’s ok to let it go bro.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/taking-shot...-173228834.html

Taking shots or talking truth? Jarvis Landry on respect, leadership after Freddie Kitchens' firing
Cassandra Negley
Cassandra NegleyYahoo Sports Contributor
Yahoo SportsDecember 30, 2019, 12:32 PM EST
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Jarvis Landry had a lot to say the morning after the Cleveland Browns put themselves back on the decades-long coaching carousel by firing Freddie Kitchens after one season.

The Browns (6-10) were supposed to finally be good this season with a cast of superstars, but 2019 was one issue after another. Landry answered questions with the media Monday morning and was either taking shots at the former coach, or simply telling the truth depending on how you look at it.

Landry: Browns need respect, leadership
Kitchens’ short tenure was filled with missteps both on and off the field. Landry’s comments about respect, via Aditi Kinkhabwala of NFL Network, indicate concerns it was never present.


Aditi Kinkhabwala
✔
@AKinkhabwala
Asked WR Jarvis Landry for the key traits needed in the #Browns next head coach: “Someone who demands respect, someone who respects his players and someone who respects opponents.”

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11:22 AM - Dec 30, 2019
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In December alone, Kitchens got into it with Landry on the sidelines and the following week did the same with Odell Beckham Jr.

[Watch live local and primetime NFL games free with the Yahoo Sports app]

Then there’s the “Pittsburgh Started It” T-shirt he wore out to the movies after defensive end Myles Garrett hit Steelers quarterback Mason Rudolph in the head with his own helmet. Kitchens defended wearing it, saying his daughter got it for him, but he also proudly stood for at least one photo with a fan.

All of this was while the Browns were still in the hunt for a playoff spot; a second win against the rival Steelers would have put them in an even better spot. The organization stood by the coach, even saying on the final weekend that a win over the Cincinnati Bengals might save Kitchens his job. That never came to fruition.

Landry also told reporters the team needs leadership, which could be a reference to any of the above, or even quarterback Baker Mayfield.


Tony Grossi
✔
@TonyGrossi
To Jarvis Landry: what’s needed here? Landry: ‘Leadership. Just leadership.’

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Mayfield was brought back to earth his sophomore campaign with 22 touchdowns and 21 interceptions, second to only Jameis Winston. His quarterback rating took a hit and he found out that venting frustrations at the post-game podium isn’t the way to handle business. On the final day of the season, he got into with a fan before losing to a one-win team. And he’s already stated he won’t work with a private coach, as some of the best in the NFL do during the offseason.

Cardinals loss showed it wouldn’t work
The Browns woes started early with a season opening 30-point loss to the Tennessee Titans. But it wasn’t until the Week 15 game against the Arizona Cardinals that Landry said he realized Kitchens time might have run out, per Keith Britton of 92.3 The Fan.


Keith Britton
✔
@KeithBritton86
#Browns WR Jarvis Landry says "maybe the Arizona game" was when he thinks they realized this wasn't going to work out

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At that point the Browns were 6-7 and alive in the playoff race. But a 38-24 loss dimmed that light, and made the franchise the only team in the decade to have a losing season every year. It was also the game that Landry got into with Kitchens on the sidelines, though he downplayed the fourth-quarter yelling after the game.

Landry could be out 6-8 months
The 2019 issues that arose for the Browns are lengthy. Part of that is how the franchise has handled medical issues. Mayfield publicly ripped the medical staff in Week 14 when asked about a report that Beckham needs offseason surgery. The struggling star receiver reportedly played through a sports hernia.

Landry has also dealt with an injury all year. Late last week he divulged a hip injury that started with a fractured bone at the base of his spine last summer.

Via the Associated Press:

''Just talking to the doctors and the early scans from OTAs, I began with a fractured sacrum and then, from there, everything else just kind of started going bad,'' the 27-year-old said.

''My hip has been bothering me since then and it's definitely been a battle. I wouldn't say it's gotten worse — I'd call it nagging — but it definitely is not getting better.''

He didn’t skip a game, but if he needs surgery it might put the start of 2020 into question. He said he would be out 6 to 8 months if he needed surgery, per Britton. If he had it now, eight months would be the start of August if all went well. Beckham will reportedly also undergo surgery for his hernia.

Cleveland Browns wide receiver Jarvis Landry had a lot to say during locker clean-outs. (AP Photo/Tony Dejak)
Cleveland Browns wide receiver Jarvis Landry had a lot to say during locker clean-outs. (AP Photo/Tony Dejak)

Baker being a donkey. If 2019 is an indicator of how he does on his own he should seriously rethink it.

Sounds like Freddie was kind of a weiner.. .

Dumb would have sufficed

Hmm... does anyone else find it a bit ironic Landry is talking about the need for respect and leadership? I mean, I'm glad we have Jarvis, but he certainly had no problem of taking advantage of the teams weak leadership when he decided to get cute with OBJ and the shoes.

For 16 weeks we saw other players having to tell OBJ where to line up (I'm pretty sure I even saw some of our no name TEs direct him a couple of times). I'm curious to know how many times Jarvis had a heart to heart with OBJ and said "Look man, I love ya, but you've got to get on the same page and figure out what you're doing".

After last season Landry emerged as a team leader. I didn't see that guy all 16 games this year. Where was he?

Sorry. He's certainly in a position to talk about the lack of leadership this year, but he's got no room to criticize the lack of.

Did you watch Landry's mic's up? The guy is a leader and great teammate. And he balled hard. While injured.

If you want to rag on a player, pick someone else, because Landry has been outstanding.

You should watch Building the Browns. He seems like the only real leader on the team.

Our defense sucked with Williams.

Considering the injuries, rookies, and the dismantling Dorsey did, I'd say that Wilks did a pretty good job. On top of that he slowed Lamar as good or better than anyone.

Our defense was markedly better last year based on DVOA. We were 26th this year and 12th last year. Losing Myles Garrett for a significant portion of the season definitely had something to do with that. Also contributing to the drop off was a major regression from Larry Ogunjobi, Damarious Randall, and Joe Schobert.

The good thing is that defenses are pretty inconsistent in how they perform year to year. For example, last year the Bears had the best defense by a wide margin and this year they were 11th and Tampa Bay was dead last in DVOA but this year finished 3rd.

I'm still scratching my head wondering why we didn't blitz the young and/or inexperienced qb's we faced.

wont read the next 5 pages or so...j/c after page 1

So disappointing that once again we make a hire and don't let it progress more than one season.

Got news for you all...if we don't get talent on the OL we will not flourish and will disappoint on O once again.

Zietler for Vernon turned out terrible.
OBJ for our #1 pick turned out terrible.

I think Kitchens last year had Hues play book and was able to utilize the plays he thought would best suit Baker.

The new play book sucked. It was more a West Coast offense from shotgun then anything.

Like many I didn't get the Higgins thing Njoku ok he missed so much maybe he wasn't ready to play again???

So we need TE's and OL especially the right side!

LT will be tough to get in the draft at 10 or higher but we can get a very good OG Dorsey wiffed badly at Corbett which was very key in the disappointing year. If he was a stud at RG the season would have been different! You can't miss at #33...so Dorsey is not squeaky clean on this.

HC...I don't want any retreads.
Rivera or some others I seen mentioned. Time for us to get a legit superstar at HC.

That is a big key noted by Wolf from the Packers....Superstar at QB and HC is needed for a championship!

Urban if he is ready to come back 100% not a figurehead type of thing. Lincoln Kennedy would be interesting.


Got to run...EVERYONE HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! STAY HEALTHY WEALTHY AND WISE!!!

Because they would expect that, and we can outsmart everyone else with our overly effective play calling. Give them time to get settled, while drawing them into our trap. We are brown and orange, we will tackle our way to prosperity. Miscreants, all of them.

Damn the obvious, full steam ahead!

To me, Wilkes was so Jekyll and Hyde this year. Guy deserves all the props in the world for his defenses when our entire damn starting secondary was injured, but then he had the AZ, Denver, and Pitt games. That, and the defense just kinda rolled over, in general, down the stretch. They made Dalton look like Mahommes.

At the end of the day, I think he gets a 'fail' from me. Our D was never as dominant as they should've been. Vernon not gaining any momentum before getting injured worked against him, and Garrett v Pitt worked against him, but our D was a major disappointment in a year where they should've carried the team. I feel Wilkes scheme was solid, as it highlighted our talent (stout Dline with a talented-if-raw secondary) and minimized our LBs. So his idea for the D was solid, IMO... but it just didn't happen for some reason.

Looking at just the numbers, Freddie was miles ahead of Hue Jackson...

I'm sorry to see Freddie fired,, I had hopes for him. I like him as a human being a lot and was rooting for him success..

Oh well, off to the next search..

Mike McCarthy maybe...

Looking at the games they managed / coached - it is not so clear cut.

I didn’t say he wasn’t a great leader. In fact I said he emerged as one at the end of last season.

I also pointed out the fact that he wasn’t that leader for 16 games this season. Getting involved with OBJ and his shoes nonsense, publicly getting in to it with coaches for whatever reason... that’s not a demonstration of leadership. That is someone taking advantage of weak leadership, not stepping in to fill the void.

I remember reading somewhere not too long ago that we led the NFL in blitzing this year.

Freddie was worse than Hue
Hue had zero talent to work with
He had garbage at QB. Who were the WRs when
Hue was here ....Ricardo Louis...he was a joke
Ranell Hall...another joke...
Kitchens had such a abundence of talent
To work with
But turned out to be a combo of Barney Fife
And Eb from Green Acres

Throw in some Hank Kimball, County Commisioner aslo!

Your are right !!
I guess that makes Dorsey Mr.Haney

Are we showing our age?

Sam Drucker.

Arnold the Pig could have coached this team better with Mr.Ziffel in the press box

Sorry,no.I do believe Arnold was part of my T-Giving feast last year.

Oh my....

Things will continue to spew out now of course

If so...good riddance.

Maybe that’s why we looked good most first drives and then trash.

So this went on and on for 17 games and its possible Dorsey never stepped in to question it? Surely these guys met on occasion to discuss football?! Dorsey never went to the OC or vice versa?!

And people are upset these nitwits are going bye bye?

Didn't take him long to contract Hue Jackson's Disease.

I said the other day, At worst FK hands the playcalling to Monken and he gets atleast another season. He could have said he was going to take the playcalling over and then fired monken in offseason.. Problem with that theory and I'm sure the real reason is ego, had FK turned the playcalling over and they were all of sudden successful, then he would have looked incompetent. I have no doubt with Monken calling the plays we probably win another 2-3 games. Monken was not the problem, he knows how to call plays. He had the best passing offense in NFL last year with freaking Winston, Evans and no run game

Another sad chapter closed. Who knows where we'd be in the playoffs this year but I believe we'd be in them. Fred, Fred, Fred...you seemed so normal.

Todd Monken has the story we want to hear. That'll tell us most of what we need to know about this fiasco of s season.

https://www.rotoworld.com/football/nfl/player/12099/todd-monken


...it gets better...

As much as football players talk about being in a brotherhood... it definitely doesn't seem like that same sentiment is shared amongst the coaching realm.

Monken is essentially doing things I'd expect Todd Haley to do. I think we all as fans said hey, Kitchens is inexperienced, bringing Monken in will help groom him. Doesn't seem like one slick of grooming was done. Now the biggest question is why. There should be some sort of check and balance to make sure that happens. Ridiculous.

This is why we need a seasoned previous HC that has experience. Head coaches not only have to gain respect from the players, but also their coaches. If that respect isn't there, we're doomed from the very beginning.

wait....they dont do those anymore?

I have to call BS on that.

I guess with that nonsensical logic, then the Marines should have lost every battle they ever fought

This is Chopz

457 Following
14.9K Followers

Everyone is a journalist now.

What??? Intense practices? Give me a break. What a bunch of babies. Get some MEN in Cleveland to play professional football. Go shoot some commercials or try modeling as a career you divas. LMFAO #dumpsterfire

Just buy a few followers and you're well on your way to self-importance.

https://howsociable.com/buy-twitter-followers/

This is some kid on Twitter with less than 15,000 followers. Browns fans have probably doubled the number of people following this story because silly crap draws attention on Twitter.

That, and there seems to be a shorage former players (talking heads) to give commentary on sports media of late.

The lines between reality and fantasy have become blurred in the minset of many a young fan.

There is nothing inherently wrong with fantasy football and or playing Madden ... they just need to be kept in their respective paradox imo.

Because it does not make one an authoritative voice on what's acctually real.

It only serves to show their ignorance.

In this instance, the person who tweeted this is irrelevant. If people watched an ESPN show today that included Josina Anderson, she said this very thing on live television in a segment about the Cleveland Browns HC search.

The greater issue is the players saying this, which I think is a joke. They were practiced too hard? Just seems like proactive plea to "take it easy on us coach" come summer time.

If I recall correctly, the person she references the most is Odell Beckham, so I wouldn't be surprised if he said this to her.

Hmmm I wonder what Vince Lombardi would say to that ...

It makes for hilarious reading to go back and read all the praise Freddie recieved in here. Even after the Myles incident and he wore that t-shirt. People in this very forum posted things like "he's one of us" and were celebrating his brashness.

Meanwhile on the field he couldn't figure it out from week 1 to week 17, his pressers sounded like Jed Clampett and on Monday, Dec. 30th, the players were saying how much they needed "leadership" and a "smart coach". Even Haslam, who has brought nothing but instability since 2012 cited those attributes in his presser.

Freddie is a guy you would like to have a drink with, but he was out coached and outsmarted every step of the way and the fact that he was given the keys of a ferrari with high octane talent was just pure stupidity. No wonder he returned it to Daddy totaled.

Almost everyone wanted Freddie to succeed, but as the year wore on and the cliches’ grew old and tired, so did his play calling. If you ain’t wearing brown and orange you don’t matter was a good battle cry, until it began to mean if you ain’t wearing brown and orange you’re probably trying harder and winning.

We made excuses because we wanted to believe our losing streak was over. We hung in there as long as we could, but when it was inevitable we were losers yet again, we all knew it had to end. Reality was not the elation we anticipated but one we had to accept, like the castor oil your mother made you take as a kid.

We may have been wrong, but damnit, we opened our cold hearts and tried!

And he had fun, fun, fun til his Daddy took the Ferrari awaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy ...

We all bought the kool aid, we sipped it, we drank it, we guzzled it and we got intoxicated with it. Sadly, like Jim Jones' spiked kool aid...it too was tainted.

Last time I felt this jaded was Lerner's final years with "Shurmurmur". But, I have learned...I will def be VERY cautious and well guarded as we approach 2020 season. I'm not even going to follow the HC/GM hire. Who we hire is who we hire and they will have to prove a lot. IF they hire Daboll I may well have to find other things to do on Sunday's because I remember his first stint here and was NOT impressed.

Agreed. I am not sure I remember it right, but didn't somebody get artsy and produce a mockery that wassailed "Daboll's Playbook" that had crayons and kindergarten scrawling? Thought it was funny, just not sure I am seeing it right.

No, that was Mo Carthon's playbook.

Wish I could post it, but there was a funny meme going around today about Dallas hiring Kitchens. Alot of people were going crazy on twitter, lol.

Daball gets alot of love around here and I don't see it.
So what he had 7 offensive lineman split out
As "decoys" on a oddball formation.
Hardly makes him a offensive savant
Everywhere he had a OC stint his offenses
Were very underwhelming.
He Needs to stick being a OC for the Bills
Allen can make him look good

He does?

Did the Browns actually fire Freddie Kitchens????


Don't you think this thread needs to be closed FFS?!

What's a Freddie Kitchens?

Why bring this thread back from the grave?

Post count matters

thanks for sharing

I posted something having to do with Freddie Kitchens. I didn't want to start a new thread.

While the video is not earth-shattering news, it's a candid take from the inside on what was going on. That's about as unfiltered an opinion as you're going to get at this point.

Seems like Landry was trying really hard to phrase it a little softer, but couldn't.

Thank you for posting that.