This is a big deal. We didn’t interview McDaniels last year. Dorsey and Indy’s GM are close and it was said that Dorsey didn’t want anything to do with McDaniels after he screwed the Colts.
Haslam and Jimmy Sexton are best buds, McDaniels is buds with Sexton.
This is pretty much already a done deal. Both Dee and Jimmy Haslam both have McDaniels as their #1 choice.
McDaniels won't come here unless he has some roster say, Dorsey will be out in a few weeks, Nick Caserio who is McDaniels long time friend and they both went to John Hopkins together and have been on the Pariots together will end up being GM
McDaniels FO will be structured much like NE. McDaniels will decide the roster with input from Caserio, which honestly it will be pretty rare for those two to ever disagree so things will be on the same page.
the only way this doesn't happen is if McDaniels pulls out for some reason like he did the Colts, but I don't think he will.
McDaniels pulled out of the Colts job last year because he got inside info that Luck was finished. With the rise of Bill Bellichik's son in New England, McDaniels knows he has to jump ship and the Browns and Mayfield is one of only two jobs he would even consider taking.
The timing is perfect right now. Barring a complete diaster, Josh McDaniels will be out next Head Coach, and he will insist on bringing Nick Caserio with him...
We will finally right the years long wrong of firing Bellichik...McDaniels will be our coach for the next 20 or more years, guy is just going to win..he has learned from his mistakes in Denver like Bellichik learned from his in Cleveland.
I don't get the love for McDaniels. Wouldn't mind Roman.
I get the McDaniels love, I just don’t know if I buy it. He’s a very successful coordinator who has coached under the greatest coach of all time and coached the greatest QB of all time. We just don’t know how much Belichick does.
I DONT get the love for McDaniels. Works well in NE under Bill but failed in Denver badly. Learned from his mistakes ? If thats true lets re-hire one of our old coaches we fired after one or two years..They musta learned somin too
no way I want Mcdaniels if he has any personnel say.. he did that in Denver and it was a disaster
Agree with that. I don't get the fascination of letting head coaches wear more than one hat. Especially first time HCs. I'd be happy with a McDaniels hire if he agrees just to be a straight up Head Coach. As I said before, he's pretty much following the coaching career path that Belichick did, and is considered one of the smarter minds in the game. He's at least had a taste of Head Coaching before, so he knows the role, and he's had time to learn more under one of the best coaches since then.
I'd prefer McCarthy at this point, but I'm good with McDaniels, so long as he's just a HC. This team needs an experienced guy on the top. Not another guy trying to find his stride in another first time role.
The McDaniels and Ceserio would be a good hire for the Browns, imo. The two obviously know each other well and have worked together for years.
There should be no conflict between the HC and his GM. If I'm Haslam, I do what it takes to get that deal done.
BUT, the #1 problem in Cleveland continues to be ownership. Is that factor enough to drive the top coaching and management talent away from taking a job with the Haslam bunch in charge?
It might take a long term contract to convince "the best" coaching and management talent to take a job with the Browns.
For some reason I thought MM was older. He's only 56. I just want a guy capable of going 10 plus season if by some miracle this organization can pull it off.
I think McCarthy is the safe bet, not sure he's the game changer fans want though.
At this point, that's what I want. No more trying to swing for the fences with first time guys that may or may not work out. Just get a guy in there that can get us to the playoffs on a consistent basis and actually build a respectable culture and reputation for a few years.
The McDaniels and Ceserio would be a good hire for the Browns, imo. The two obviously know each other well and have worked together for years.
There should be no conflict between the HC and his GM. If I'm Haslam, I do what it takes to get that deal done.
BUT, the #1 problem in Cleveland continues to be ownership. Is that factor enough to drive the top coaching and management talent away from taking a job with the Haslam bunch in charge?
It might take a long term contract to convince "the best" coaching and management talent to take a job with the Browns.
While I'm kinda glad we didn't do it with Freddie and wish we would have with Pettine, we need to bite our lips and stick with something for 3 years minimum. I realize how crappy it COULD get but somehow this needs to be the one. (fingers crossed)
McDaniels doesn't excite me, but I also don't think it is fair to cite his tenure in Denver as proof that he will fail again. Pete Carroll also failed the first time around and he has been very successful since his return to the NFL. So, you never know. Hopefully one learns (although it seemed Freddie didn't from week to week!), and JM has been tutored by the best.
Saw on an ESPN show, they mentioned Jack Del Rio. And how a hard nosed coach like him would be an ideal fit for our team/egos that exist on this team....thoughts?
I don't think McDaniels would be a Freddie/Hue type failure. I think he would make us competitive year in and out. I'm just not sure he is 'The' coach to take us to the big game or make us annual contenders. We have too much talent to not get this right.
Saw on an ESPN show, they mentioned Jack Del Rio. And how a hard nosed coach like him would be an ideal fit for our team/egos that exist on this team....thoughts?
I’ve thought of this too ... a STRONG head coach who hires an innovative, young OC
Must admit, I NEVER expected to be back at this same ol, same ol coaching carousel and offseason rumor mill of who to hire and who not to hire this year!
Must admit, I NEVER expected to be back at this same ol, same ol coaching carousel and offseason rumor mill of who to hire and who not to hire this year!
Freddie had to go tho. Man, what a drag!
At least we're familiar with the music played on this merry-go round.
Saw on an ESPN show, they mentioned Jack Del Rio. And how a hard nosed coach like him would be an ideal fit for our team/egos that exist on this team....thoughts?
I’ve thought of this too ... a STRONG head coach who hires an innovative, young OC
This is what I want as well. I do NOT want a HC hired only because his flavor of offense worked well the last year or 2. The only person that's close to this type of candidate would be Greg Roman, but I need to read up on him a little. IIRC, he has a bit more leadership/coaching experience than your run-of-the-mill OC->HC candidate.
i think for defenisve minded HC, they typically need to be DC's longer to be quality HC's. i think that was the issue with pettine, and will be the same with Saleh.
and dont get me wrong, i think he's a beast of a DC, but he's been a DC for 3 seasons, and assistants to the assistants prior to that.
pettine was DC for the jets i believe 3 years? then had one season at buffalo before we hired him. and like pettine, i dunno if his coaching style will carry over to the other side of the ball.
i wouldnt be upset, btw, just i dont think it will work out.
I think I might like Stefanski. He is supposed to be hard-nosed and thats what we need. I'm sick of watching the Browns lay down these last few weeks.
OBJ and Landry have both been cutting off routes. OBJ might be great but I didn't see it. To many drops and tips to the other team, and whats with that under the chin wave. It looks stupid. That guy is more trouble than he's worth. Watch,shoes, visor plus I believe he is a bad influence on Landry and hurts Baker.
The second I saw Robert Saleh getting all fired up on the sidelines the night the 49ers took us to the woodshed, I knew he'd be the new "hot" head coaching candidate.
And my wife used "hot" to describe him in different context.
Saw on an ESPN show, they mentioned Jack Del Rio. And how a hard nosed coach like him would be an ideal fit for our team/egos that exist on this team....thoughts?
What do I think of hiring Del Rio? I think I don't want to be stuck in 7-9, 8-8 or 9-7 for the next X number of years (however long he is coach).
Every year the Pat's get the the door knock to approve job interviews.
Charlie Weiss on down the line. A number have gone on to be head coaches. Many have failed.
McDaniels bombed in Denver. 8-8 then 3-9 when fired. Maybe he was not ready at 33 years old to be head coach.
Maybe he learned.
Maybe??? I am leery of maybe's.
We need a guy who can command a room. A "I've been there done that guy."
Hot shot coordinators are hit and miss. It is way different being a the head coach than a coordinator or a position coach. You can be buddies as coordinators or position coaches. You don't have to look a player in the eye and cut him when you like the guy.
I would like a former head coach who has succeeded before.
People may have different views about Mike McCarthy but the guy won a Super Bowl. That is no accident.
Saw on an ESPN show, they mentioned Jack Del Rio. And how a hard nosed coach like him would be an ideal fit for our team/egos that exist on this team....thoughts?
What do I think of hiring Del Rio? I think I don't want to be stuck in 7-9, 8-8 or 9-7 for the next X number of years (however long he is coach).
his defenses were good. and he wouldve made a deep playoff push if Carr never broke his leg that one season. also, i think Mayfield might be the best QB he would have walking into the HC job.
I'm going to stay firmly seated in the "prior HC experience boat" as well. Mcarthy has the record I like, but I'd be solid with anyone with over a .500 record. It wouldn't even have to be be hugely over because you have to factor in that they may not have had top talent all years.
I think based on what we have done in past, with the supposed talent on the team and what is needed..McCarthy is the safest choice, give him 3 years. You know he can win and take teams where you ultimately want to go, so then if they don't, you have to start looking at the talent. I would have Hired him already and just beat the rush. We could do alot worse and usually do by overthinking it and hiring an overhyped coordinator
whats the resume of Stefanski? i legit dont know much about him.
If you have access to it, read The Rise of Kevin Stefanski a feature piece that was written on him in The Athletic back in September of this year. It's pretty insightful.
Saw on an ESPN show, they mentioned Jack Del Rio. And how a hard nosed coach like him would be an ideal fit for our team/egos that exist on this team....thoughts?
What do I think of hiring Del Rio? I think I don't want to be stuck in 7-9, 8-8 or 9-7 for the next X number of years (however long he is coach).
MGH...I personally like Del Rio...He is the type that demands respect...And you need it with a lot of the knuckleheads we have. Now I remember him having a tough ass D and taking Jacksonville to the playoffs. I really don't remember much of him in Oakland, though I remember he had a great year there (could it have been the one year Darren McFadden actually stayed healthy? I'm not sure) I think he was tough in Denver too, however off the top of my head I get him and John Fox mixed up during Denver days there.
I am worried about hiring a guy whom has NOT been a HC before...guess that's the after effect. So to be honest, I would prefer a guy whom has a strong HC resume...And Del Rio does fit that bill...I would agree to as someone stating he would be paired with a strong suited OC...And I think that would be ideal. I however will admit...I'm not sure on the lateral moves coaches can make.
The last coach I wanted badly (and trust me when I say I was one of the very few whom wanted him on here) Was Zimmer...and he has done very well. I also wanted Gregg Williams over Freddie...for whatever it's worth.
I'll admit I don't know as much on coaches as I do with players. But we do need someone whom is well versed in all aspects of HC, and someone whom demands respect and accountability...I'm sure others will fit that forte, but Del Rio does as well...He has found success everywhere he has coached.
But in all honesty, I'm not even sure what we'll do.
whats the resume of Stefanski? i legit dont know much about him.
If you have access to it, read The Rise of Kevin Stefanski a feature piece that was written on him in The Athletic back in September of this year. It's pretty insightful.
Based on the title, kinda sounds like it's gonna be a fluff piece, but I'll still be reading intently to get info on the guy. Thank you for the link.
whats the resume of Stefanski? i legit dont know much about him.
If you have access to it, read The Rise of Kevin Stefanski a feature piece that was written on him in The Athletic back in September of this year. It's pretty insightful.
Based on the title, kinda sounds like it's gonna be a fluff piece, but I'll still be reading intently to get info on the guy. Thank you for the link.
It's not. The Athletic doesn't write fluff pieces.
I do not see why we would want to go after McDaniels. He failed in Denver (though he might've learned from it), and he stood up the Colts like no HC candidate ever has in the past. People talking about somebody with "a strong HC resume" should run away from this guy, IMO.
This tweet is very confusing. SI reported that McCarthy was going to interview with Browns. I think they're referring to last season
Everyone thought we were not interested in McCarthy last year, but this suggests we really were and he was not interested in us.
That's how I read it as well, but I dunno if I buy that. I say this with all seriousness, the Browns gig should (would've been moreso last year) a pretty sought after coaching position. Look, I'm kinda making fun of myself while posting this (given the season and the game yesterday) but we're a team with a young, talented QB and with young talent peppered throughout the roster. Better coaching would've netted us at least 3 more wins, if not more. Coaches don't normally get vacant positions with as much talent as we have on our roster.
I fear the Stefanski ship has sailed for us unfortunately.
There are rumors that if the Vikings are bounced in the first round they will fire Mike Zimmer and possibly keep Stefanski around as head coach. If Zimmer is fired I would guess he ends up as the head coach of the Cowboys.
This tweet is very confusing. SI reported that McCarthy was going to interview with Browns. I think they're referring to last season
Everyone thought we were not interested in McCarthy last year, but this suggests we really were and he was not interested in us.
That's how I read it as well, but I dunno if I buy that. I say this with all seriousness, the Browns gig should (would've been moreso last year) a pretty sought after coaching position. Look, I'm kinda making fun of myself while posting this (given the season and the game yesterday) but we're a team with a young, talented QB and with young talent peppered throughout the roster. Better coaching would've netted us at least 3 more wins, if not more. Coaches don't normally get vacant positions with as much talent as we have on our roster.
I read somewhere that McCarthy was told he would have to accept Freddy as his OC and McCarthy declined.
This tweet is very confusing. SI reported that McCarthy was going to interview with Browns. I think they're referring to last season
Everyone thought we were not interested in McCarthy last year, but this suggests we really were and he was not interested in us.
That's how I read it as well, but I dunno if I buy that. I say this with all seriousness, the Browns gig should (would've been moreso last year) a pretty sought after coaching position. Look, I'm kinda making fun of myself while posting this (given the season and the game yesterday) but we're a team with a young, talented QB and with young talent peppered throughout the roster. Better coaching would've netted us at least 3 more wins, if not more. Coaches don't normally get vacant positions with as much talent as we have on our roster.
I read somewhere that McCarthy was told he would have to accept Freddy as his OC and McCarthy declined.
That's a very believable and understandable situation.
They should all be drooling to work with our talent.
I have to disagree...
All the talent in the world does not outweigh the train wreck of ownership...
Ownership hires people who we think will be good. We give all the support and the head coaches fail. If the coaches wouldn't suck so bad or cause pure chaos... ownership wouldn't be forced to fire them.
Urban Meyer among Browns' coaching considerations Print
By Kevin Patra Around the NFL Writer Published: Dec. 30, 2019 at 08:17 a.m.Updated: Dec. 30, 2019 at 02:49 p.m.
Cleveland is now set to hire their ninth full-time head coach since 2000.
In announcing Kitchens' ouster, owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam underscored they did not see the "success or opportunities for improvement to move forward with him as our head coach" and noted they're focused on "hiring an exceptional leader."
Put that more simply: We want someone with head coaching experience.
Whereas Kitchens rose suddenly from running backs coach to offensive coordinator to head coach in half a year, the Browns want the opposite, a stabilizing force who has been through the meatgrinder before.
NFL Network's Tom Pelissero and Ian Rapoport on Monday gave us some potential candidates Cleveland is expected to consider in its latest coaching search. In no particular order:
Urban Meyer: The former Ohio State coach brought a college championship to the area and has many supporters in the state. Meyer stepped away for health reasons but has been very visible recently, to which Pelissero notes makes some believe a comeback could be on the horizon.
Robert Saleh: The Browns have put in a request to interview the 49ers defensive coordinator, Rapoport reported. He is in his 15th NFL season and third as the 49ers DC.
Josh McDaniels: The Patriots OC has turned down several chances to leave New England, including the high-profile spurning of the Colts two years ago. McDaniels grew up in Canton, Ohio. Pelissero added that while McDaniels has eschewed other opportunities, Cleveland is one he'd entertain. Rapoport reported that the Browns and Panthers are making requests to interview McDaniels, per a source.
Mike McCarthy: The former Packers coach would bring the requisite experience, with a Super Bowl championship and years of working with QBs. McCarthy also has ties to Browns GM John Dorsey from their time together in Green Bay. Cleveland wanted to interview McCarthy last year, but at that point, it was pretty apparent that Kitchens was getting the gig, Pelissero noted. With the Carolina Panthers appearing to be closing in on McCarthy, the Browns could swoop in.
Kevin Stefanski: The Browns have put in a request to interview the Vikings offensive coordinator, Pelissero reported, per a source. He interviewed with the Browns last offseason and was a finalist for the job. Stefanski has no NFL or college head coaching experience. In 2019 under Stefanski, the Vikings had their highest-scoring offense this decade.
Greg Roman: The Ravens OC is expected to be a hot candidate this year after helping revolutionize Baltimore's offense. Roman has never been a head coach, but has extensive experience guiding multiple dual-threat offenses and has proven he can conjure schemes that best fit his personnel.
Dennis Allen: The Saints defensive coordinator has head coaching experience, compiling a 4-28 record in less than three seasons in Oakland. Allen has helped lift a limp Saints defense into one of the better units in the NFL in three seasons in New Orleans.
I'd take Urban and Dorsey over McDaniels and a whole new GM or McDaiels acting as GM. And I don't particularly want Urban ....
It doesn't sound as if my top 2 choices are really viable: McCarthy / Rivera. I'd much prefer an experienced NFL HC rather than promoting a coordinator or seeking a college HC, no matter their resume. Ugh - My preferences in order, at this stage, (assuming Rivera is going to the Redskins as widely speculated):
McCarthy - big push. Jim Harbaugh. Urban. Stefanski. Matt Campbell (Iowa State). Matt Rhule (Baylor) Greg Roman.
They should all be drooling to work with our talent.
I have to disagree...
All the talent in the world does not outweigh the train wreck of ownership...
Ownership hires people who we think will be good. We give all the support and the head coaches fail. If the coaches wouldn't suck so bad or cause pure chaos... ownership wouldn't be forced to fire them.
Exactly. Had this season gone the way it could or should have, we wouldn't be hearing anything from the Haslams aside from congratulations.
Something tells me McDaniels is coming in here and is going to bust this thing up . If McDaniels wants it you know the Haslams will be all giddy.
I don't think they will let him bust it up. There's been too much invested to get to this point AND it was lack of coaching, not players or talent at the root of this crap season.
But I'm not sold on McDaniels. He does well in New England but he is doing it with Tom "GOAT" Brady and Bill "GOAT" Belichek. He tanked the Denver team, and made a mess out of his staff. And to bail on Indy like he did shows he is an unreliable. But I understand Dee Haslam is high on him, so I guess we'll see.
Furthermore, if he does come here and wants to bring his own front office then what does that do for Highsmith? Wolf? I'm sure Dorsey would be given his walking papers, but we have a solid front office. So we're gonna blow that up?
I can't help but feel, that while Kitchens was the wrong hire, and he should have been let go, I have zero faith Haslam won't overreach, overreact, or bungle up the next hire.
JMO but I feel Greg Roman and Kevin Stefanski bring more to the table than Josh McDaniels. GR and KS seem to really be able to fit their personnel to a scheme. JD hasn't been able to get the Pats O going all year. Their O really hasn't gotten any better from game 1 until now and he hasn't fit new players in that well.
Something tells me McDaniels is coming in here and is going to bust this thing up . If McDaniels wants it you know the Haslams will be all giddy.
I think the player personnel currently here is why he's seemingly driving for the job. He sees something that piques his interest in Cleveland.
The Patriots wanted Baker:
Quote:
At least according to Mayfield's agent, Jack Mills.
"We knew the Jets at No. 3 was the bottom line," Mills said during an appearance on former NFL executive Andrew Brandt's podcast. "We had another team -- which is going to surprise you -- another team had said, 'You may get a big surprise on draft day at No. 2 if [Mayfield] is available.' It was the Patriots. They had (No.) 23 and they had (No.) 31, and they had two seconds, and I don't know. We thought, boy, that's going to be a heck of a move to get up that high from where they are. And of course, he wasn't available so we never knew if that was a reality or not."
JMO but I feel Greg Roman and Kevin Stefanski bring more to the table than Josh McDaniels. GR and KS seem to really be able to fit their personnel to a scheme. JD hasn't been able to get the Pats O going all year. Their O really hasn't gotten any better from game 1 until now and he hasn't fit new players in that well.
Yeah see, I can't help but think he's a one trick pony. Sure he looks good, but look who he is with. I think he's a fit in NE a bust anywhere else.
Agreed. I live in Pats territory and see every Pats game. Like I said earlier, their O hasn't been right all year and never got better from game 1 until now.
Their O has not been right maybe because their OL has sucked and has been injured (Wynn and Andrews) all year and they lost one of the greatest TEs in the game as well as one of the best FBs in the game (Devlin).
Let's hire our 3rd coordinator from the Patriots... what could go wrong?
Al Groh (only one season in the NFL 9-7 coached in college after) Romeo Crennel (4-15 NFL 2 years Browns) Eric Mangini (33-47 5 years in NFL 2 with the Browns) Josh McDaniels (11-17 2 years in the NFL) Jim Schwartz (29-51 5 years with the Lions) Bill O’Brien (52-44 the only coordinator with an NFL winning record at .542 thanks to the last 2 seasons with Watson he was 31-33) Matt Patricia (9-22-1 2 seasons in the NFL)
Let's hire our 3rd coordinator from the Patriots... what could go wrong?
Al Groh (only one season in the NFL 9-7 coached in college after) Romeo Crennel (4-15 NFL 2 years Browns) Eric Mangini (33-47 5 years in NFL 2 with the Browns) Josh McDaniels (11-17 2 years in the NFL) Jim Schwartz (29-51 5 years with the Lions) Bill O’Brien (52-44 the only coordinator with an NFL winning record at .542 thanks to the last 2 seasons with Watson he was 31-33) Matt Patricia (9-22-1 2 seasons in the NFL)
I like both Roman and Stefanski. Roman resembles Freddie, alot. Not that that matters. Both are young 47 and 37 I think. Both seem no nonsense and good at keeping things simple and schemes tailored to their guys talents. Could 3rd time interviewing be a charm for KS? Can you ignore what Roman has done for the Rats O?
Agreed. I live in Pats territory and see every Pats game. Like I said earlier, their O hasn't been right all year and never got better from game 1 until now.
Let's hire our 3rd coordinator from the Patriots... what could go wrong?
Al Groh (only one season in the NFL 9-7 coached in college after) Romeo Crennel (4-15 NFL 2 years Browns) Eric Mangini (33-47 5 years in NFL 2 with the Browns) Josh McDaniels (11-17 2 years in the NFL) Jim Schwartz (29-51 5 years with the Lions) Bill O’Brien (52-44 the only coordinator with an NFL winning record at .542 thanks to the last 2 seasons with Watson he was 31-33) Matt Patricia (9-22-1 2 seasons in the NFL)
combined record: 147-203-1 Yeah... I'll pass.
Where does Nick Saban fit on this list?
sorry! I thought I added him...
Al Groh (only one season in the NFL 9-7 coached in college after) Romeo Crennel (4-15 NFL 2 years Browns) Eric Mangini (33-47 5 years in NFL 2 with the Browns) Josh McDaniels (11-17 2 years in the NFL) Jim Schwartz (29-51 5 years with the Lions) Bill O’Brien (52-44 the only coordinator with an NFL winning record at .542 thanks to the last 2 seasons with Watson he was 31-33) Matt Patricia (9-22-1 2 seasons in the NFL) Nick Saban 15-17 (2 NFL seasons never coached in the NFL again)
combined record with Saban: 162-220-1 Yeah... I'll pass. [/quote]
Let's hire our 3rd coordinator from the Patriots... what could go wrong?
Al Groh (only one season in the NFL 9-7 coached in college after) Romeo Crennel (4-15 NFL 2 years Browns) Eric Mangini (33-47 5 years in NFL 2 with the Browns) Josh McDaniels (11-17 2 years in the NFL) Jim Schwartz (29-51 5 years with the Lions) Bill O’Brien (52-44 the only coordinator with an NFL winning record at .542 thanks to the last 2 seasons with Watson he was 31-33) Matt Patricia (9-22-1 2 seasons in the NFL)
Let's hire our 3rd coordinator from the Patriots... what could go wrong?
Al Groh (only one season in the NFL 9-7 coached in college after) Romeo Crennel (4-15 NFL 2 years Browns) Eric Mangini (33-47 5 years in NFL 2 with the Browns) Josh McDaniels (11-17 2 years in the NFL) Jim Schwartz (29-51 5 years with the Lions) Bill O’Brien (52-44 the only coordinator with an NFL winning record at .542 thanks to the last 2 seasons with Watson he was 31-33) Matt Patricia (9-22-1 2 seasons in the NFL)
How would we get Stephanski (sp?) As an OC...when he is already an OC with the Vikings? I thought we must promote any OC or DC to HC if we grabbing them from another team.
Also just my 2 cents...I know a lot of folks in the media are saying Cleveland is a dream spot for a coach to land at...given our talent on the roster. I am however worried about the trend of lack of job security while coaching in Cleveland.
I just hope we get someone whom can turn things around here.
Something tells me McDaniels is coming in here and is going to bust this thing up . If McDaniels wants it you know the Haslams will be all giddy.
I think the player personnel currently here is why he's seemingly driving for the job. He sees something that piques his interest in Cleveland.
The Patriots wanted Baker:
Quote:
At least according to Mayfield's agent, Jack Mills.
"We knew the Jets at No. 3 was the bottom line," Mills said during an appearance on former NFL executive Andrew Brandt's podcast. "We had another team -- which is going to surprise you -- another team had said, 'You may get a big surprise on draft day at No. 2 if [Mayfield] is available.' It was the Patriots. They had (No.) 23 and they had (No.) 31, and they had two seconds, and I don't know. We thought, boy, that's going to be a heck of a move to get up that high from where they are. And of course, he wasn't available so we never knew if that was a reality or not."
I don't believe the Patriots ever wanted Mayfield. Mayfield isn't the kinda guy the Patriots go after in the draft. He was on video getting arrested, running from the cops, grabbing his crotch and then disrespecting OSU with the flag plant? Bellichik don't like people that disrespect the game, and Mayfield disrespected the game of football the day he done that.
that is NOT the type of player Bill Bellichik would waste his time on trying to covert to the Patriot way. You kidding me? Bellichik would have ROASTED Mayfield for some of his comments he made is press conferences, Bellichik would have flat out cut him for the comments he made about the medical staff, that stuff just doesn't fly there.
Personally, I think McDaniels is intrigued by Mayfield because he sees a lot of potential, but its just that potential. I think a marriage of McDaniels and Mayfield is one that won't end well.
Folks don't understand, in the NE under McDaniels(Hoodie Jr.)You run the plays as designed. That means if its a 3 step drop, you take 3 steps and you throw the ball, if no one is open, you throw it away. You don't do like Baker does which is hotdogging, and trying to scrable, etc....McDaniels will snap on him on the sidelines on live TV
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the idea of having McDaniels, he is an abrasive personality...he is the guy that will tell Mayfield and his wife to STFU on social media, he is the guy that will force structure here in this organization and will have ZERO issues showing people who don't want to buy in the door.
Landry and OBJ will buy in no problem, Those guys need a strong authority figure as a head coach to buy in, but Mayfield takes arrogance to the extreme, just like his comments about not working with a QB coach this offseason because he knows all he needs to know...McDaniels will sour on him quickly if he doesn't change his ways and tow the line ....if next season is any like last season, McDaniels will bench him by game 3, he won't put up with it.
Mayfield will be in for a rude awakening to the abrasive school of the Bellichik way if we hire McDaniels and I personally can't wait. For the 1str time in his life, he will have a coach that as Tom Brady said Bellichik has said to him over the years numerous times "Shut the **** up"
Very few college only guys make it in the NFL. Two different worlds.
In college it is about recruiting wars. Then the head coach is god. You look a 19 or 20 year old kid in the face and tell him to jump; he replies "how high".
You look a NFL 5 year pro bowl player in the eye and he maybe making more money than you. He may listen but it a far distant conversation.
Landry mentioned leadership and respect.
NFL players respect guys who have been there and proven themselves. Andy Reid, Belichick guys who command respect.
Sure Jimmy Johnson made it but few others. And many failed. Think about Chip Kelly he was going revolutionize the NFL? Steve Spurrier?
How did that work out.
Let's take a head coach who has won more games than lost in the NFL.
Folks don't understand, in the NE under McDaniels(Hoodie Jr.)You run the plays as designed. That means if its a 3 step drop, you take 3 steps and you throw the ball, if no one is open, you throw it away. You don't do like Baker does which is hotdogging, and trying to scrable, etc....McDaniels will snap on him on the sidelines on live TV
That attention to detail made me think of this clip of Josh McDaniels....
I understand, and can't really disagree a lot. Logic says...right?
However, a good coach is a good coach.
As for Spurrier, he had a bone head owner who is still a bonehead, but he was a young owner than. Kelly, if you hire a guy like that, you have to go all in.
It's like the Ravens, props to them. They brought in Lamar, went all in with the playbook and brought in backs-up to run the same deal. They went all in...and very well might win the Superbowl.
Tebow could have been terrific, but the Broncos didn't go all in with his style of play. Had they adjusted the playbook, ran the guy 15 or more times a game, Tebow would have looked like the Tebow at Florida. All of a sudden his passing would have looked really good. Tim hit the league about 4-5 years too soon.
It's not to late for him. I hope someone gives him another shot.
a superbowl winning headcoach wants to come here … pay him double
Yeah, the more I think about it, McCarthy has to be the best choice. He has over a .600 record, and his playoff record (10-8) is nearly better than just about every season we've had since our return. He's won a Super Bowl. What more do you want from a coach?
I don’t want to hate too hard, but my biggest worry is how baker responds to him. Mike McCarthy is a really good coach, and I think it’s clear Aaron pretty much forced him out.
Does baker have the clout to push him out if he doesn’t like him after....say year 2 of the pairing?
McCarthy comes in, but we see little improvement in bakers development. Will the FO side with baker or McCarthy?
I don’t want to hate too hard, but my biggest worry is how baker responds to him. Mike McCarthy is a really good coach, and I think it’s clear Aaron pretty much forced him out.
Does baker have the clout to push him out if he doesn’t like him after....say year 2 of the pairing?
McCarthy comes in, but we see little improvement in bakers development. Will the FO side with baker or McCarthy?
After this year, I'd say Baker has hardly any clout at all. Rodgers was a Super Bowl winner, MVP, and is considered a future Hall of Famer. Baker was runner up Rookie of the Year and this season's Most Regressed Player of the Year.
I understand, and can't really disagree a lot. Logic says...right?
However, a good coach is a good coach.
As for Spurrier, he had a bone head owner who is still a bonehead, but he was a young owner than. Kelly, if you hire a guy like that, you have to go all in.
It's like the Ravens, props to them. They brought in Lamar, went all in with the playbook and brought in backs-up to run the same deal. They went all in...and very well might win the Superbowl.
Tebow could have been terrific, but the Broncos didn't go all in with his style of play. Had they adjusted the playbook, ran the guy 15 or more times a game, Tebow would have looked like the Tebow at Florida. All of a sudden his passing would have looked really good. Tim hit the league about 4-5 years too soon.
It's not to late for him. I hope someone gives him another shot.
Interesting take on Tebow. Wasn’t Lamar thought of similarly coming out of college? Wonder what Roman could do with him...
J/C ..... when has McDaniels ever shown that he can be the voice who keeps star players in line?
I mean, in New England, he can be like the child with a hammer, pounding away, hopelessly, on a nail, knowing that dad has a massive hammer, and will use it, to back him up getting that nail driven in, if necessary.
He also has Tom Brady, who is a super strong voice on offense, who also helps keep players in line.
I don’t want to hate too hard, but my biggest worry is how baker responds to him. Mike McCarthy is a really good coach, and I think it’s clear Aaron pretty much forced him out.
Does baker have the clout to push him out if he doesn’t like him after....say year 2 of the pairing?
McCarthy comes in, but we see little improvement in bakers development. Will the FO side with baker or McCarthy?
And what has that done for Green Bay...they actually got a little worse this year on offense...noone is scared of rodgers or green bay in playoffs. If Baker can't gel with MM, then we will get a new QB...problem solved, MM has proven himself, Baker might not even be in the NFL in 3 years. I think the Head coaching search should not even consider Baker other than the standpoint of can the candidate develop qb's or have a plan to. We learned the lesson with FK
I want a coach who knows how to work with the players he has and knows how to get the best out of them. Someone who knows who his best players are and uses them accordingly. A solid, grown up leader who’s organized and disciplined and not wound up on his own personal agendas and ego crap. Too much to ask?
I’m sorry but everything I know about McDaniels is just not good. I admit that, like others from the coach Bill tree, I don’t trust his talents outside of the Belichick/ Brady umbrella, I’m just not convinced he’s anything special away from them. You can say he’s made mistakes and maybe learned from them but what tells you that? How can you possibly know that given the data? He’s not only been a disaster everywhere else but a snake to boot. He’s another big boom bust gamble. Those go boom in Cleveland.
I like what little I know about Roman. Seems like a problem solver. Not at all excited about McCarthy. The differential between packers last/this year should tell you something. They looked completely uninspired the last few years. They look born again now.
As usual, I don’t put much stock in fan opinions of coaches and you shouldn’t put much in mine. But while Im no good at picking the winners, I’ve been pretty outstanding at spotting who the dogs will be among new coaches most years for various teams. Which is not nothing. The best case scenario for me is to not be able to develop a solid opinion when watching all their interviews. It’s all about listening to them talk. I’ve never been wrong (so far). I knew Hugh and Freddy were dogs 10 seconds into their introductions. I have no faith this team knows how to hire coaches. Here’s to dumb luck! Luck be a lady...
I want a coach who knows how to work with the players he has and knows how to get the best out of them. Someone who knows who his best players are and uses them accordingly. A solid, grown up leader who’s organized and disciplined and not wound up on his own personal agendas and ego crap. Too much to ask?
I’m sorry but everything I know about McDaniels is just not good. I admit that, like others from the coach Bill tree, I don’t trust his talents outside of the Belichick/ Brady umbrella, I’m just not convinced he’s anything special away from them. You can say he’s made mistakes and maybe learned from them but what tells you that? How can you possibly know that given the data? He’s not only been a disaster everywhere else but a snake to boot. He’s another big boom bust gamble. Those go boom in Cleveland.
I like what little I know about Roman. Seems like a problem solver. Not at all excited about McCarthy. The differential between packers last/this year should tell you something. They looked completely uninspired the last few years. They look born again now.
As usual, I don’t put much stock in fan opinions of coaches and you shouldn’t put much in mine. But while Im no good at picking the winners, I’ve been pretty outstanding at spotting who the dogs will be among new coaches most years for various teams. Which is not nothing. The best case scenario for me is to not be able to develop a solid opinion when watching all their interviews. It’s all about listening to them talk. I’ve never been wrong (so far). I knew Hugh and Freddy were dogs 10 seconds into their introductions. I have no faith this team knows how to hire coaches. Here’s to dumb luck! Luck be a lady...
you obviously don't watch packer games....they look worse this year..every single game is ugly and statistically they were better on offense last year, this year defense carried them. They scored the same amount of points as last year. So I don't buy into anything that says McCarthy was the problem, its usually been defense at GB that's been the problem
[Frank]Cignetti -- a fellow graduate assistant with McCarthy on Paul Hackett's staff at Pitt in 1989 who later joined him on Haslett's Saints in the early 2000s and spent last season as the Packers' QBs coach -- recalls McCarthy telling him in early January he planned to coach again. McCarthy just wasn't sure it'd be in 2019. He received inquiries from several teams last winter and took one interview with the New York Jets, though he knew after that meeting it wasn't the right fit.
Quote:
How has Andy Reid successfully incorporated college concepts to flood the wide side of the field into his version of the West Coast offense? How do the Cowboys get Dak Prescott in rhythm on the deep cross? How are other teams borrowing the "Fish" concept on deep shots that McCarthy made a staple of his Packers offense? It's all been part of one long conversation throughout the season, and the Xs and Os are just a piece of it. What worked before? What needs to be done better?
"It's nice to have time to think about it, to watch, discuss, and you're not (saying), 'Hey, we gotta make this decision by end of March 'cause OTAs start in April,' " McCarthy said. "The whole 360 (degree) view, whether it's watching the games, watching the officiating, game management, scheme, technology, analytics ..."
The plan for all of it is laid out on two whiteboards, covered with notes on every scheme project they've completed and every aspect of the football operation they intend to build.
Quote:
No matter where he ends up, McCarthy doesn't envision a total teardown. ("I'm not a believer in [that]," he said. "I think every one of these opportunities that will be available, there's resources in there that you have to make sure you're aware of and try to utilize.") He wants to better use technology and analytics. ("We were definitely on the average side at best in my time in Green Bay there. I've looked at every team in the league and their commitment to analytics, and football technology and video. Because everybody has analytics, but it has to be part of your everyday operation to show up on Sundays.") At the forefront of the program will be player wellness, including dedicated resources for mental health. ("You have to develop the locker room from every possible angle. It can't be a subcontractor. It needs to be part of your everyday operation.")
I'm not in love with any of the candidates but I think Mike McCarthy is the most qualified from my perspective. He wouldn't cause a top down reconstruction of the front office because he's worked with a lot of the guys in Green Bay. On top of that a several of the coaches worked with McCarthy in Green Bay (James Campen, Joe Whitt, and Jeff Blasko).
With all that said I have no clue if McCarthy is the right guy. I wish we would interview some college coaches before we make a decision just to get a more detailed view of what is out there.
J/C ..... when has McDaniels ever shown that he can be the voice who keeps star players in line?
I mean, in New England, he can be like the child with a hammer, pounding away, hopelessly, on a nail, knowing that dad has a massive hammer, and will use it, to back him up getting that nail driven in, if necessary.
He also has Tom Brady, who is a super strong voice on offense, who also helps keep players in line.
This is my fear. I don't think players will respect him at all.
Watching that McCarthy video makes you feel like he could be a good hire. He has experience, perspective, a track record, and has definitely learned from any mistakes.
They should all be drooling to work with our talent.
Add a top 10 pick to go with it.
We keep talking about talent. Sure, we have some talent. We also have a lot of lack of talent. Minus a couple of players, our defense sucks. Our O-line is missing 3 players and our tight ends suck. We can add in that possibly our QB isn't as good as hoped.
Our defense doesn’t have to suck. With a good coordinator and a handful of solid new starters it can be stout. Garrett comes back and the line is strong again, Greedy and Wilson will get better. We must sign Schobert and draft a safety. Pick up some depth guys. And get a coach who knows what he is doing.
They should all be drooling to work with our talent.
Add a top 10 pick to go with it.
We keep talking about talent. Sure, we have some talent. We also have a lot of lack of talent. Minus a couple of players, our defense sucks. Our O-line is missing 3 players and our tight ends suck. We can add in that possibly our QB isn't as good as hoped.
Regarding the D... its hard to evaluate a post GW defense, since the fundamentals with GW were all wrong.. effective but wrong, and fora new DC it will take time to change the approach to the game from a anything goes mentality.
Regarding OL, you don't have the 2nd rusher in the league without a good OL. I honestly think most of the OL problems were QB driven, they are not great but they are probably one of the best OL we have ever had.
Regarding the TE's... when you have Landry, OBJ, Chubb and Hunt... its hard for anyone else to shine.
Watching that McCarthy video makes you feel like he could be a good hire. He has experience, perspective, a track record, and has definitely learned from any mistakes.
I thought it was weird and uncomfortable when he said his family needs football as if they don't really want him around.
As for the Browns, I think he's the best hire, but Dee is fixated on McDaniels.
I think McDaniels wants out of New England. He loves Mayfield. It's a great fit. Go get him.
I think alot of NE coaches and personnel staff see the sun setting on the dynasty and would rather get out now than be a part of a potential massive collapse when Brady and BB leave.
JMO but I feel Greg Roman and Kevin Stefanski bring more to the table than Josh McDaniels. GR and KS seem to really be able to fit their personnel to a scheme. JD hasn't been able to get the Pats O going all year. Their O really hasn't gotten any better from game 1 until now and he hasn't fit new players in that well.
Name one QB other than Jackson and Kap that Roman fit to a scheme? I disagree, I think Roman needs a very mobile and athletic QB to be successful. I think hes the opposite, he needs a certain qb to fit his scheme, not fitting his scheme to the QB. JMO.
They should all be drooling to work with our talent.
Add a top 10 pick to go with it.
We keep talking about talent. Sure, we have some talent. We also have a lot of lack of talent. Minus a couple of players, our defense sucks. Our O-line is missing 3 players and our tight ends suck. We can add in that possibly our QB isn't as good as hoped.
Honestly, I think simply having a better base scheme and DC will improve our defensive numbers drastically. Add a solid LB, a safety (randall was a let down this year), and with Garrett coming back - I think the Def will be fine.
We need 2 OT, a backup C, a TE that can block and catch and the above. I think we could fill all those holes in FA and draft.
The talents there bro .... Freddie forgot how to design and call plays ... WSU posted a video last week that summed it up perfectly ... it was 100% spot on about the O ...
We have talent on the D also ... more than a few players ...
The talents there .... KJ messed up the Freddie hire ... but he didn’t mess up acquiring talent ... we have way more than most ....
It now boils down to Bake .... i just hope he can earn to read D’s ...
I think McDaniels wants out of New England. He loves Mayfield. It's a great fit. Go get him.
If McDaniels wanted out of New England, why did he screw over the Colts ?
Uncertain as to whether he'd have Andrew Luck or not...
ESPN first reported McDaniels staying in New England.
The surprising development comes after the Colts announced Tuesday morning they had reached an agreement for McDaniels to become their new coach. Although McDaniels hadn't signed his Colts contract, the team had scheduled his introductory news conference for Wednesday at Lucas Oil Stadium.
Compounding the issue is that multiple assistant coaches have signed Colts contracts thinking they'd be working with McDaniels. Former Cowboys linebackers coach Matt Eberflus, who was pegged as McDaniels' defensive coordinator, is among those under contract already. Garafolo reported on NFL Total Access that all indications are Eberflus -- and possibly other coaches -- will remain with the Colts under whomever they hire.
Rapoport added that McDaniels was offering Colts jobs to prospective assistants as late as Tuesday before changing his mind about the job.
Why do some think to continually push this false narritive? He thought that he was getting a team lead by Andrew Luck, and it seems that the Colts where less than honest concerning this important fact.
The talents there bro .... Freddie forgot how to design and call plays ... WSU posted a video last week that summed it up perfectly ... it was 100% spot on about the O ...
We have talent on the D also ... more than a few players ...
The talents there .... KJ messed up the Freddie hire ... but he didn’t mess up acquiring talent ... we have way more than most ....
It now boils down to Bake .... i just hope he can earn to read D’s ...
There is more to winning than talent. IDK if John sees that.
It takes will, hard work, drive, and passion for the game to win. The ability to put your life on the line to make a play.
John gets talent, no question, but so far - other than Jarvis and Chubb, I don't see anyone he has brought in that does the above - or puts Football first.
Why do some think to continually push this false narritive? He thought that he was getting a team lead by Andrew Luck, and it seems that the Colts where less than honest concerning this important fact.
This is true. Colts weren't honest with McDaniels about Luck. McDaniels also never signed a contract. Water under the bridge now. But he and Dorsey won't co-exist. Not a bad thing.
Watching that McCarthy video makes you feel like he could be a good hire. He has experience, perspective, a track record, and has definitely learned from any mistakes.
Then the video did its job... :-p
The excerpts posted from the article are interesting, though. I'm nowhere near the McCarthy hype-train, but I will say that a guy that (allegedly) decided to take a year off to reflect and develop himself as a coach and leader of an organization... take a look at what other teams are doing and try to wrap his brain around new (to him) concepts.... that's one heck of a breath of fresh air from Freddie. I don't know if he turned down the Jets or the Jets turned down him, but a guy that's willing to commit himself for an extended period of time to doing that gets quite a bit of credit, in my book.
I think McDaniels wants out of New England. He loves Mayfield. It's a great fit. Go get him.
It will be a great fit If Mayfield will listen.. I don't think Mayfield is very coachable, and McDaniels hasn't spent a lot of time with him even in their private workouts.
Look back to the video Milkman embedded on the previous page for a short interview with McDaniels.
His attention to detail is nuts, just like Bellichik his precision is down to the inches.
McDaniels will require you to run the play as designed. That means if its a 3 step drop you take 3 steps, and you throw the ball, if no one is open you throw it away. McDaniels will NOT put up with Mayfield hot dogging like trying to scramble right on a 3 step drop, or turning over the ball. McDaneils will snap on him on live TV, he won't put up with it.
Mayfield will have to dig really deep to co-exist with a attention to detail guy of the level of McDaniels. Because if he isn't going to follow the plays exactly to the tee with no improvising McDaniels will sour on him very quickly and send him packing. Furthermore, Mayfield is going to be critized daily by McDaniels, just like Bellichik has done nothing but criticize Brady for years. If you can't take constructive criticism, you can't get better, and Mayfield has A TON of stuff in his game that needs cleaned up.
I honestly think McDaniels could be the best thing that has ever happened to Mayfield if he puts his head down, shuts up, and listens, and does exactly what Josh says. Im not so sure Mayfield ego will allow that though, and ya know if Josh ends up pushing Mayfield out, then he was never the answer in the 1st place. We will see very quickly if McDaniels is hired how Mayfield is going to do.
McDaniels is a hardcore Bellichik disciple. He doesn't care who you, where you were drafted,or what your name is. you either buy into the system, do what your told, follow the game plan to a tee, or your gone just like Bellichik runs it in NE. I really hope Mayfield buys in if Josh ends up being our head coach.
I have no idea where you get this notion that Baker won't listen to his coaches.
When has he ever been defiant? When has he ever gone rogue on the field? I mean these accusations are just asinine.
It's like people think we drafted this raw, untalented QB who must have things his way or it's the highway. Crazy.
I'm not real sure where a lot of people come up with these crazy ideas and wild inferences about Baker. I mean other than you simply hate the dude and think he's a Class A d-bag. I just don't get it.
The kid wants nothing more than to win. He plays with heart and soul, gives it his all on every play, and leaves nothing on the field. Yet some fans don't want this kind of player leading the team. Something is wrong here.
Regarding OL, you don't have the 2nd rusher in the league without a good OL. I honestly think most of the OL problems were QB driven, they are not great but they are probably one of the best OL we have ever had.
Nonsense. The OL is bad and Chubb is just really, really good at his job.
I have no idea where you get this notion that Baker won't listen to his coaches.
Well it suits the "Baker is trash" narrative. These types of "inaccurate statements" get repeated enough by the same couple of posters they start believing it's fact.
Hiring andy reids OC is like hiring BB defensive coordinator...they aren't going to be successful.. I think this time around you pass on everyone that doesn't have HC track record... you have to know what you are getting. McCarthy, Caldwell, Gruden, or even Del Rio..but get a guy you can look at experience..McCarthy is the no brainer here. Marty diciple, offensive guru, 3 losing seasons in 13 years and won 135 games...I'm not even sure why this is debatable, usually guys like this don't last long on the market. He has same winning percentage as Andy Reid and a better playoff record than Reid...how many people wouldn't mind Reid coming here? Oh and he's never lost to the browns..lol
The problem with "proven head coaching experience" is that that's a nicer way of saying "is available because they got fired for sucking". They're available (some available for the nth time now) for a reason, and those reasons are usually good ones.
I'm not saying that we should cancel anyone that has already been a HC in the NFL, but I just get so annoyed at posts saying, "we need someone with proven experience" as if that's the magical mystery ingredient we've been missing this whole time.
The problem with "proven head coaching experience" is that that's a nicer way of saying "is available because they got fired for sucking". They're available (some available for the nth time now) for a reason, and those reasons are usually good ones.
I'm not saying that we should cancel anyone that has already been a HC in the NFL, but I just get so annoyed at posts saying, "we need someone with proven experience" as if that's the magical mystery ingredient we've been missing this whole time.
The problem with "proven head coaching experience" is that that's a nicer way of saying "is available because they got fired for sucking". They're available (some available for the nth time now) for a reason, and those reasons are usually good ones.
I'm not saying that we should cancel anyone that has already been a HC in the NFL, but I just get so annoyed at posts saying, "we need someone with proven experience" as if that's the magical mystery ingredient we've been missing this whole time.
Exactly! They ALL suck at some point!
They're just as much of a crapshoot as the super-green college guys.
Hawkins is a smart guy ... I'd take him at his word. Trouble is - do you take an uber talented offensive guy and then give him the whole team to run and manage? If we went that sort of route we'd need a superb D coordinator that we just left the whol D to run.
They're just as much of a crapshoot as the super-green college guys.
I disagree - not necessarily because of the talent/ability side of things - but because of the magnitude of the job, understanding the subtleties of the job, appreciating how important and how much time media commitments take. I think it's much easier to be a leader of your team when you already appreciate how big the job is. jmo
The problem with "proven head coaching experience" is that that's a nicer way of saying "is available because they got fired for sucking". They're available (some available for the nth time now) for a reason, and those reasons are usually good ones.
I'm not saying that we should cancel anyone that has already been a HC in the NFL, but I just get so annoyed at posts saying, "we need someone with proven experience" as if that's the magical mystery ingredient we've been missing this whole time.
Thats silly, sometimes coaches just need to move on..Bill was fired twice...so I guess NE shouldn't have hired him, Philly fired Reid, how many times has Parcells been fired? Hell even the great Paul Brown was fired, Coughlin, the list goes on and on...so yeah just because they got fired doesnt mean they sucked. Sometimes you can be good and not a good fit to the direction the FO wants. Thats exactly what happened to McCarthy, the FO let douchebag Rodgers push out McCarthy because McCarthy wanted douchebag to run the plays he called. Well Rodgers got his wish and the offense is worse this year.
The problem with "proven head coaching experience" is that that's a nicer way of saying "is available because they got fired for sucking". They're available (some available for the nth time now) for a reason, and those reasons are usually good ones.
I'm not saying that we should cancel anyone that has already been a HC in the NFL, but I just get so annoyed at posts saying, "we need someone with proven experience" as if that's the magical mystery ingredient we've been missing this whole time.
Counterpoint:
Bill Belichik was fired and re-hired and has done pretty well. Tom Coughlin fired by Jags went on to win Super Bowl with NYG John Fox canned in Carolina and won SB with Denver Pete Carroll was fired twice (NYJ and NE) and went on to win SB with SEA Andy Reid fired in Philly and continues to put KC in position to win SB
All coaches get fired at some point. Also, failing is ok and can be opportunity to grow as an individual.
The problem with "proven head coaching experience" is that that's a nicer way of saying "is available because they got fired for sucking". They're available (some available for the nth time now) for a reason, and those reasons are usually good ones.
I'm not saying that we should cancel anyone that has already been a HC in the NFL, but I just get so annoyed at posts saying, "we need someone with proven experience" as if that's the magical mystery ingredient we've been missing this whole time.
Thats silly, sometimes coaches just need to move on..Bill was fired twice...so I guess NE shouldn't have hired him, Philly fired Reid, how many times has Parcells been fired? Hell even the great Paul Brown was fired, Coughlin, the list goes on and on...so yeah just because they got fired doesnt mean they sucked. Sometimes you can be good and not a good fit to the direction the FO wants. Thats exactly what happened to McCarthy, the FO let douchebag Rodgers push out McCarthy because McCarthy wanted douchebag to run the plays he called. Well Rodgers got his wish and the offense is worse this year.
Exactly. McCarthy "sucked" his way to a career .618 record, 10 playoff wins and a Super Bowl. Definitely don't need THAT level of sucktitude around here. Let's hire someone who's a good Coordinator and hope the Peter Principle doesn't come back to bite us yet again.
McDaniels is the only guy who used Tebow talents correctly. I’d be good if the Browns went with him as HC. Discipline is what’s missing imo.
If the Browns were fortunate enough to land Josh McDaniels, ownership should help him set the franchise up the way he wants...if that means McD wants to bring in his own GM, ownership should make it happen...
...then ownership should get out of the way and allow the man and his team to develop.
The problem with "proven head coaching experience" is that that's a nicer way of saying "is available because they got fired for sucking". They're available (some available for the nth time now) for a reason, and those reasons are usually good ones.
I'm not saying that we should cancel anyone that has already been a HC in the NFL, but I just get so annoyed at posts saying, "we need someone with proven experience" as if that's the magical mystery ingredient we've been missing this whole time.
Exactly! They ALL suck at some point!
your wrong. You see, when you have a team ready to win NOW, with talent - you want a coach that has been there before. When you ZERO culture - you want a coach that can BRING culture, and a CULTURE of winning.
WE don't have anyone that knows how to win, knows how to practice to win, or knows what it takes to do things to win.
THATS WHY we need a HC with experience. If you have a team of Vets guys, that have been there done that, you can get away with a young guy that doesn't have experience. We don't have that.
The Browns need a leader and delegator with connections who will assemble a good staff. Identify that guy (McCarthy), throw in a few token interviews, and let's get the show on the road.
McCarthy would come here and have a very familar staff with Dorsey, Wolf, Hightower(hopefully), campen and blasko. It literally is a perfect scenario to get this on the right track... So I firmly believe Haslam will once again make the wrong decision and we will be back doing this again in a year or two
The Browns need a leader and delegator with connections who will assemble a good staff. Identify that guy (McCarthy), throw in a few token interviews, and let's get the show on the road.
The Browns are so Browns. They'll screw this up.
the fact that McCarthy built a staff a year ago and they've been working M-F for a year developing means he's literally ready to turn on the lights and get to work now.
The Browns need a leader and delegator with connections who will assemble a good staff. Identify that guy (McCarthy), throw in a few token interviews, and let's get the show on the road.
The Browns are so Browns. They'll screw this up.
I'm getting that feeling too. McCarthy is the perfect guy for this job. He's got the experience and track record to really command the locker-room and give the team the head-coach thye need. He's worked his butt off this past year, even when unemployed to become a better coach. I hope he could pass down that type of dedication to Baker, et al. And he's got previous ties with most of the Front Office, so he could likely slide into the current structure without much upheaval.
But no. Just like last year, we'll probably try to catch lightning in a bottle, when the solid choice is right there for the taking.
The Browns need a leader and delegator with connections who will assemble a good staff. Identify that guy (McCarthy), throw in a few token interviews, and let's get the show on the road.
The Browns are so Browns. They'll screw this up.
I'm getting that feeling too. McCarthy is the perfect guy for this job. He's got the experience and track record to really command the locker-room and give the team the head-coach thye need. He's worked his butt off this past year, even when unemployed to become a better coach. I hope he could pass down that type of dedication to Baker, et al. And he's got previous ties with most of the Front Office, so he could likely slide into the current structure without much upheaval.
But no. Just like last year, we'll probably try to catch lightning in a bottle, when the solid choice is right there for the taking.
One of the blurbs about McCarthy above mentioned how he was interested in analytics and believed they needed to be taken more seriously. Sounds like he’s a great fit philosophically, but I don’t think Dorsey is exactly of the same mind? I wonder how that would work out?
I think the hope and expectation is that they can learn from their past experiences. I think the interview process has to be for assessing that. What would they do differently? Have they ever thought it out with any detail, are they even the type to review and revise? Lots of men, especially in sports, are the type to sink their heels and just push harder down the course they’re on. They take pride in not looking back and just plowing forward
Also, with some firings it’ can be because there’s a whole bunch of other mitigating circumstances. For instance I’ve read that having a coaching flame-out in Cleveland is usually pretty significantly discounted because there’s so much existing dysfunction. It takes some of the risk out of coming here, because everyone fails here. Point being you have to look at the whole picture, interview other people with perspective on the situation, due diligence etc. All that said, I’d still be very hesitant with Josh McDanials, lol.
Having past HC experience is not magic but it takes a certain kind of risk out of the decision. The kind of risk we got severely punished for this season. There’s a whole host of things operational and leadership-wise that I just deeply suspect you can’t learn without having gone through it. Cleveland simply doesn’t have the time for years of seasoning. Cleveland needs stability and strong even handed leadership, organization and discipline. I would contend much more so than most other teams. Going totally green was a colossally stupid move last year. That’s really what makes me question the decision making of this FO in general. Like, what the hell were they thinking going with Kitchens last year with a rookie QB, the 2nd youngest team in the league and.... its Cleveland, the recent history, the expectations etc. We need very VERY sure footedness this time around. I wouldn’t make NFL head coaching experience mandatory but if they don’t have it I’d need a lot of assurance that this was the guy. It would be a very long and detailed interview for anyone without it. And would include lots of outside due diligence.
If by some dumb set of circumstances we pick McDaniels, I sure hope we don't give him full control.
He hasn't proven he can coach a team much less control the team.
We need structure, we need someone the player will have immediate respect for, we need someone who understands what it takes and what they are getting themselves into.
If by some dumb set of circumstances we pick McDaniels, I sure hope we don't give him full control.
He hasn't proven he can coach a team much less control the team.
We need structure, we need someone the player will have immediate respect for, we need someone who understands what it takes and what they are getting themselves into.
The rumor is that he wants to bring in his own GM and structure. That's kind of why I don't want him. I'd rather not blow up another Front Office.
If by some dumb set of circumstances we pick McDaniels, I sure hope we don't give him full control.
He hasn't proven he can coach a team much less control the team.
We need structure, we need someone the player will have immediate respect for, we need someone who understands what it takes and what they are getting themselves into.
The rumor is that he wants to bring in his own GM and structure. That's kind of why I don't want him. I'd rather not blow up another Front Office.
yeah, and that would be why I wouldn't want him, if we brought him in to just coach, I could get on board and back him, but if we bring him in and give him the whole ship, I will just shake my head in disbelief.
If by some dumb set of circumstances we pick McDaniels, I sure hope we don't give him full control.
He hasn't proven he can coach a team much less control the team.
We need structure, we need someone the player will have immediate respect for, we need someone who understands what it takes and what they are getting themselves into.
The rumor is that he wants to bring in his own GM and structure. That's kind of why I don't want him. I'd rather not blow up another Front Office.
Some have said McCarthy would not work under Dorsey either.
Who knows what will happen after the dust settles.
God I don't understand the Mcdaniels love...dude has failed every single position that wasn't at NE
All 1 of them ... *LOL* ...
McDaniels was also the OC of the St. Louis Rams after his HC stint in Denver.
How old was he with those teams
I am 35, I began management at my current position at 31. I can assure you, am above and beyond a better manager and leader today, than I was just 4 years ago.
Some people have an ability to learn to and adapt. Some dont (Freddie). Nothing about him says he cannot learn from his past.
he also took a team to the playoffs with Tebow at QB - so I would hold his entire career at Den in against him.
If by some dumb set of circumstances we pick McDaniels, I sure hope we don't give him full control.
He hasn't proven he can coach a team much less control the team.
We need structure, we need someone the player will have immediate respect for, we need someone who understands what it takes and what they are getting themselves into.
The rumor is that he wants to bring in his own GM and structure. That's kind of why I don't want him. I'd rather not blow up another Front Office.
Some have said McCarthy would not work under Dorsey either.
Who knows what will happen after the dust settles.
McCarthy was my #1 choice before Freddie was even let go - he's still my #1 and for McCarthy I'd absolutely let Dorsey walk if it meant landing him. . . . he's the only candidate I would do that for.
Garret as an offensive coordinator - yes. Not as a HC imo. But he fits the bill of experienced HC and I'd look at him over a lot of the coordinators we are going to talk to.
Garret as an offensive coordinator - yes. Not as a HC imo. But he fits the bill of experienced HC and I'd look at him over a lot of the coordinators we are going to talk to.
Apparently the entire Cowboys staff has been canned so there's more guys today searching for work.
God I don't understand the Mcdaniels love...dude has failed every single position that wasn't at NE
All 1 of them ... *LOL* ...
McDaniels was also the OC of the St. Louis Rams after his HC stint in Denver.
How old was he with those teams
I am 35, I began management at my current position at 31. I can assure you, am above and beyond a better manager and leader today, than I was just 4 years ago.
Some people have an ability to learn to and adapt. Some dont (Freddie). Nothing about him says he cannot learn from his past.
he also took a team to the playoffs with Tebow at QB - so I would hold his entire career at Den in against him.
he did no such thing, Tebow was still in college when Mcdaniels took over Denver, it was jon fox that took a tebow team to playoffs
no actually it doesn't....if you were bad, and you got a little better, how is that better than a guy who is good to begin with and can still be better..it's all about the floor
God I don't understand the Mcdaniels love...dude has failed every single position that wasn't at NE
All 1 of them ... *LOL* ...
McDaniels was also the OC of the St. Louis Rams after his HC stint in Denver.
How old was he with those teams
I am 35, I began management at my current position at 31. I can assure you, am above and beyond a better manager and leader today, than I was just 4 years ago.
Some people have an ability to learn to and adapt. Some dont (Freddie). Nothing about him says he cannot learn from his past.
he also took a team to the playoffs with Tebow at QB - so I would hold his entire career at Den in against him.
he did no such thing, Tebow was still in college when Mcdaniels took over Denver, it was jon fox that took a tebow team to playoffs
Your right. Ill was mistaken.
he did go 8-8 with them, however - with far less talent than we have here.
McDaniels has been with the Pats for the better part of 16 years... He's been OC for eight years. Talk about being on the "slow track".
Yet he thinks he should walk down a red carpet, be handed the keys to the franchise and somehow be the "football czar" the day he signs on the dotted line.
yeah, and that would be why I wouldn't want him, if we brought him in to just coach, I could get on board and back him, but if we bring him in and give him the whole ship, I will just shake my head in disbelief.
That's the kind of power and control one earns with a proven HC record. Something a guy like McCarthy or another long time, winning NFL HC may be able to command.
Giving that kind of power to a crap shoot would be foolish.
I remember bringing up the "Mystery Box" scene from Family Guy last year around this time, when we had Gregg Williams who had just gone 6-2 and others wanted to go with some other exotic pick like Lincoln Riley, just because it represented something that "could" be better.
McCarthy is this year's "boat". He's the established guy that taken teams to the playoffs multiple years. He would slide right into the current Front Office structure and be ready to go Day 1. Many of these other guys are the "mystery box". We don't know what we're getting, but hey! It might be a guy that could get us to the playoffs every year. We've always wanted one of those!
Hiring andy reids OC is like hiring BB defensive coordinator...they aren't going to be successful.. I think this time around you pass on everyone that doesn't have HC track record... you have to know what you are getting. McCarthy, Caldwell, Gruden, or even Del Rio..but get a guy you can look at experience..McCarthy is the no brainer here. Marty diciple, offensive guru, 3 losing seasons in 13 years and won 135 games...I'm not even sure why this is debatable, usually guys like this don't last long on the market. He has same winning percentage as Andy Reid and a better playoff record than Reid...how many people wouldn't mind Reid coming here? Oh and he's never lost to the browns..lol
Doug Peterson would tend to disagree with this statement.
God I don't understand the Mcdaniels love...dude has failed every single position that wasn't at NE
All 1 of them ... *LOL* ...
McDaniels was also the OC of the St. Louis Rams after his HC stint in Denver.
How old was he with those teams
I am 35, I began management at my current position at 31. I can assure you, am above and beyond a better manager and leader today, than I was just 4 years ago.
Some people have an ability to learn to and adapt. Some dont (Freddie). Nothing about him says he cannot learn from his past.
he also took a team to the playoffs with Tebow at QB - so I would hold his entire career at Den in against him.
I was merely pointing out that McDaniels was not just with one other organization outside NE.
Nowhere, did I insinuate McDaniels has not grown as a coach or could not.
In fact, I have no problem at all if the Browns hire McDaniels.
*Nor do I have any issues with McCarthy or Stefanski.
Hiring andy reids OC is like hiring BB defensive coordinator...they aren't going to be successful.. I think this time around you pass on everyone that doesn't have HC track record... you have to know what you are getting. McCarthy, Caldwell, Gruden, or even Del Rio..but get a guy you can look at experience..McCarthy is the no brainer here. Marty diciple, offensive guru, 3 losing seasons in 13 years and won 135 games...I'm not even sure why this is debatable, usually guys like this don't last long on the market. He has same winning percentage as Andy Reid and a better playoff record than Reid...how many people wouldn't mind Reid coming here? Oh and he's never lost to the browns..lol
Doug Peterson would tend to disagree with this statement.
Nick Saban, Florres seems like a good coach so far, Bill Obrien, Vrabel never coached for him, but played for him and has done very well in Tenn.
Hiring andy reids OC is like hiring BB defensive coordinator...they aren't going to be successful.. I think this time around you pass on everyone that doesn't have HC track record... you have to know what you are getting. McCarthy, Caldwell, Gruden, or even Del Rio..but get a guy you can look at experience..McCarthy is the no brainer here. Marty diciple, offensive guru, 3 losing seasons in 13 years and won 135 games...I'm not even sure why this is debatable, usually guys like this don't last long on the market. He has same winning percentage as Andy Reid and a better playoff record than Reid...how many people wouldn't mind Reid coming here? Oh and he's never lost to the browns..lol
Doug Peterson would tend to disagree with this statement.
Brad Childress, marty Mornhinweg, pat shurmer agree with me...this is a fun game...who else you got
Browns reported interview candidates: -Josh McDaniels, Pats OC - Just say no. -Greg Roman, Ravens OC -Robert Saleh, 49ers DC (Too soon for HC gig) -Kevin Stefanski, Vikings OC -Mike McCarthy, former Packers HC - No one is above this guy on my list -Brian Daboll, Bills OC - this is sort of a push. It'd have to be on the interview -Mike LaFleur, 49ers PGC
See above. I'd take Garrett ahead of the guys in White.
Hiring andy reids OC is like hiring BB defensive coordinator...they aren't going to be successful.. I think this time around you pass on everyone that doesn't have HC track record... you have to know what you are getting. McCarthy, Caldwell, Gruden, or even Del Rio..but get a guy you can look at experience..McCarthy is the no brainer here. Marty diciple, offensive guru, 3 losing seasons in 13 years and won 135 games...I'm not even sure why this is debatable, usually guys like this don't last long on the market. He has same winning percentage as Andy Reid and a better playoff record than Reid...how many people wouldn't mind Reid coming here? Oh and he's never lost to the browns..lol
Doug Peterson would tend to disagree with this statement.
Brad Childress, marty Mornhinweg, pat shurmer agree with me...this is a fun game...who else you got
out of sheer statistics - how many guys succeed as HC in the NFL? How many teams have had successful HC that have retired as HC? 10? 15? Im curious.
how many other HOF HC have had guys fail when they moved on?
You seem to think there is some proven scientific method of hiring a HC. Theres not. Many HC have failed. and then gone on to be great. Bill B was one of them.
You look at resume, style, coaching strategy, and personal attitude. Many things go into being successful as a HC. Some of these guys had them, some have not.
To think that just because someone coached somewhere under someone they are gong to fail is well , idiotic. These are ALL individuals.
I remember bringing up the "Mystery Box" scene from Family Guy last year around this time, when we had Gregg Williams who had just gone 6-2 and others wanted to go with some other exotic pick like Lincoln Riley, just because it represented something that "could" be better.
McCarthy is this year's "boat". He's the established guy that taken teams to the playoffs multiple years. He would slide right into the current Front Office structure and be ready to go Day 1. Many of these other guys are the "mystery box". We don't know what we're getting, but hey! It might be a guy that could get us to the playoffs every year. We've always wanted one of those!
I’m a sucker for a good analogy/ illustrative point and that’s a pretty good one. I can honestly say that I care less who the actual name is and more what the qualities (which I’ve gone on ad nauseum about) are that I hope they land. Ultimately, none of us are a part of the process and therefore have no *real* idea who these guys are apart from resume’. Some resume’s are lengthly, some are short. There’s less risk in lengthy ones. I feel like I can glean some things from televised interviews and discussions and can usually tell if they’re a whiff but that’s my little trip. I don’t make the mistake that I really know. Despite my very outsider objections I hope the qualities reside in McDanials or McCarthy or whoever and it’s because of those qualities we choose them. But I have deep suspicions that our coach picking is broken. We have a natural river-boat gambler at the top of the pyramid. As much as it’s not about Haslam, it’s always about Haslam.
I wouldn't blame you if you skipped over the second paragraph of my previous post.
I just get the feeling that since we just got done with a guy like Freddie, people want to hire the first guy that walks through the door that held an NFL head coaching position at some point... and all our problems are solved.
The retreads are just as much of a crapshoot as the unknown young guys. That was my point.
I wouldn't blame you if you skipped over the second paragraph of my previous post.
I just get the feeling that since we just got done with a guy like Freddie, people want to hire the first guy that walks through the door that held an NFL head coaching position at some point... and all our problems are solved.
The retreads are just as much of a crapshoot as the unknown young guys. That was my point.
Yes and no.
I think the "retreads" that have won before have shown they can win with talent. We have talent.
there is less risk with a retread on OUR team as of TODAY than their is with someone who has never done it before.
Take a retread on this team in 2015-16 - I agree, they probably would have failed and it would have been a crapshoot.
I don't see how a guy like McCarthy, with what he HAS SHOWN in the league, would not succeed with this roster. I cant say that about anyone with 0 experience.
Your forgetting something in your opinion. The PLAYERS.
Freddie failed because of a few reasons, one of the BIGGEST ones, the players didn't really respect Freddie as a HC. Guys like McCarthy, players listen too and get on board. he garnishes respect because of his resume. hes been there done that. Its hard to get a guy to play every down, when their in pain, hurt, and tired - if they don't respect you and your resume.
Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy’s bye week dance card is shaping up to be a full one.
Monday brought word that the Panthers and Giants both want to speak to Bieniemy about their head coaching vacancies. Another team added their name to the list on Tuesday.
Tom Pelissero of NFL Media reports that the Browns have requested permission to speak to Bieniemy. He’s free to interview this week with the Chiefs off until the divisional round of the playoffs.
The Browns have assembled the longest list of candidates of any team looking for a head coach at this point in the process. Current NFL assistants Josh McDaniels, Greg Roman, Robert Saleh, Kevin Stefanski, Brian Daboll, Mike LaFleur and Mike McDaniel have all been linked with the team. They’d also like to talk to former Packers head coach Mike McCarthy, but Baylor head coach Matt Rhule has reportedly turned down a chance to speak to the team.
I don't mind the extensive list of interviews as long as this doesn't drag out. Even if your first round of interviews is an absurdly long list... fine.
It's when the list keeps growing and growing as you're interviewing people... that's when I'll starting worrying.
After the events of today, the firing of John Dorsey, I would be shocked if the coach is anyone other than Kevin Stefanski or Josh McDaniels. Stefanski was DePodesta's guy last year and Dorsey refused to interview McDaniels last year (allegedly).
I guess McCarthy is just to much of a logical choice for the Browns ???
Apparently? If what others are saying about McDaniels wanting to bring in his GM and run things his way, I don't see how he'd end up being the guy given what we've heard in the Dorsey brake up. It doesn't make sense to take a hard line and tell Dorsey he needs to capitulate to the organizational structure, then bring in a guy and allow him to alter the organizational structure.
By Tuesday afternoon, Robert and Jonathan Kraft, as well as Belichick, met with McDaniels again and made an aggressive pitch. McDaniels' conversation with Belichick had particular influence, a source said. Belichick wasn’t trying to talk McDaniels out of going, but he knew his offensive coordinator was having second thoughts.
Belichick offered to include McDaniels on more of the inner workings of the organization, from roster construction to financial/salary-cap related considerations. That was viewed as “extremely valuable” to McDaniels. Ownership also endorsed it as a way to extend Belichick’s influence on the organization in future years, although no assurances were given to McDaniels that he would succeed Belichick. McDaniels, who a source confirmed got a significant raise, has privately said in the past that he did not want to be the coach who succeeds Belichick. Although he since may have changed his mind, McDaniels knows Belichick, after five Super Bowl victories, will be a hard act to follow.
Quote:
McDaniels has been looking for the perfect head-coaching situation after his first stint with the Denver Broncos went sideways quickly. The Broncos wanted McDaniels to bring the Patriots' winning ways with him to the Rocky Mountains when they hired him in 2009. What they got instead was their very own videotaping scandal to go with losing and personnel blunders. McDaniels was fired less than halfway through his four-year, $8 million deal with an 11-17 record.
He has been working his way back ever since, keeping an Excel file on his laptop titled “lessonslearned.xls.” McDaniels has in recent years turned down opportunities to pursue available head-coaching jobs in Cleveland, Los Angeles and Atlanta.
One source said: “He’s always just insisted that everything be right, or he wasn’t going to leave.” It’s unclear what it was about the Colts' job that McDaniels ultimately decided wasn’t perfect, but he reached a point where he believed he was better off staying in New England.
It doesn't seem like Andrew Luck factored into the decision at all.
Here is a 2016 article on McDaniels entitled The Redemption of Josh McDaniels: Failure Taught Pats OC How to Pick His Spots:
He had some long talks with Tony Dungy, his one-time rival with the Colts. Dungy told him he needed to self-reflect every year, whether he was fired or won the Super Bowl. They talked about the importance of being yourself and trusting instincts. Having fun is not a bad thing. Dungy stressed that a head coach's consistency with a team really mattered. They talked about the formula that makes a good coaching staff. Dungy gave him some ideas about keeping his faith at the center of his life as his coaching world turned.
Quote:
"I would look at his years in Denver as a positive, not a negative," one NFC general manager says. "It made him realize he needs to rely on his strengths. He now realizes that Belichick is a rarity, and no one can run the show like him. [But] like Bill, Josh can adapt to any circumstance, and he can do this with limited prep time. ...
"If I were an owner, hiring Josh would be a no-brainer."
Quote:
"Lesson Learned: Take time to digest information and make good, PATIENT decisions. Never rush into anything—all things are important. Impulsive—is a bad word—listen to everyone and make the RIGHT decision. Nothing gets fixed quickly."
"Lesson Learned: LISTEN better. To anyone who tells me something. There are so many people who can help us win & have wisdom I don't have. I will do my part in teaching but can never stop learning myself. Best results come from a group effort!"
"Lesson Learned: Be considerate of assistant coaches' time, their emotions & make sure they always know how much I care. Push them, hold them accountable and love each one of them personally. We win as a team, we lose as a team and I always take responsibility for the losses. They get the credit when we win—they deserve it."
"Lesson Learned: I wanted to practice until I felt we totally had it. Wrong Choice. I need to lighten the load and REALIZE the value in allowing the players to feel good about that. Players who feel you are taking care of them will give you all they have during the week and on Sunday."
"Lesson Learned: Stay fresh & healthy—don't overdo it—it will eventually burn me out! Never let that happen!!!"
"Lesson Learned: Lean on my faith and be myself—I love this game and enjoy working hard at it to compete with the very best. Trust our process and enjoy each day—it's a blessing to work in this game—let people see how much I treasure this privilege."
There is no organizational structure. It will be structured based on who the head coach is.
I disagree and I think my position is strengthened the longer we retain DePo. DePo was brought in to create a system based on data. Not his ego, not his gut feelings, not his personal preferences in offensive or defensive scheme. He knew at the beginning it would take time and more importantly discipline in sticking to it. I'm going to presume its a system that is constantly revised, each time becoming more efficient.
The problem is that Jimmy Haslam isn't the most disciplined person, or maybe I should say patient. I think he's sold on what DePo has to offer, but there's a part of him that is desperate and tries to short cut at times.
Dorsey wasn't exactly known as a analytics guy. I think Jimmy jumped the gun bringing him in to spend the capital Sashi left in his will. It wasn't necessarily the wrong call to make but I' venture to guess bringing in a guy not 100% sold on your system is a deviation from that system.
Dorsey makes some good picks, most everyone is happy with how he spent that capital ( maybe even helps bridge that analytics to football gut instinct gap by picking Baker?). But then he goes and taps Freddie, deviating even further from that system.
At least for now, I think Haslam realizes just how far he strayed and is going back closer to that system.
DePo isn't going to be the guy that makes the decisions. He's the guy who consults the Bat Computer, presents recommendations and the data to support it. That's it.
I think the goal all along was to create that objective data driven system to take out as much guess work as possible, find a GM and HC who value that data and will largely follow it, but also who can recognize that "it" factor that you can't quantify. Kinda like who Hue Jackson was supposed to be when he got hired.
The organizational structure is there. We just have yet to have the slots filled out with the right people.
I think you are giving Jimmy Haslam too much credit. Paul DePodesta is just the person he is listening to at the moment, he just happens to be a smart person.
I think you are giving Jimmy Haslam too much credit. Paul DePodesta is just the person he is listening to at the moment, he just happens to be a smart person.
I guess McCarthy is just to much of a logical choice for the Browns ???
That's going to be my guess. Instead they'll go with someone who either was never an NFL HC or someone who did a poor job the first time because, "He may have learned from his mistakes".
I mean that formula has gotten us where we are now. Wait a minute..... that's not good.
I guess McCarthy is just to much of a logical choice for the Browns ???
That's going to be my guess. Instead they'll go with someone who either was never an NFL HC or someone who did a poor job the first time because, "He may have learned from his mistakes".
I mean that formula has gotten us where we are now. Wait a minute..... that's not good.
I guess McCarthy is just to much of a logical choice for the Browns ???
That's going to be my guess. Instead they'll go with someone who either was never an NFL HC or someone who did a poor job the first time because, "He may have learned from his mistakes".
I mean that formula has gotten us where we are now. Wait a minute..... that's not good.
Isn't the whole narrative around Mike McCarthy that he learned from his mistakes?
I guess McCarthy is just to much of a logical choice for the Browns ???
That's going to be my guess. Instead they'll go with someone who either was never an NFL HC or someone who did a poor job the first time because, "He may have learned from his mistakes".
I mean that formula has gotten us where we are now. Wait a minute..... that's not good.
Isn't the whole narrative around Mike McCarthy that he learned from his mistakes?
No .. the narrative is that he is an experienced head coach with a winning record and a Super Bowl win.
I guess McCarthy is just to much of a logical choice for the Browns ???
That's going to be my guess. Instead they'll go with someone who either was never an NFL HC or someone who did a poor job the first time because, "He may have learned from his mistakes".
I mean that formula has gotten us where we are now. Wait a minute..... that's not good.
Isn't the whole narrative around Mike McCarthy that he learned from his mistakes?
No .. the narrative is that he is an experienced head coach with a winning record and a Super Bowl win.
It was the super bowl win thats lead to the confusion. You see everyone was buying him dinner after the win and he couldn’t eat it all and it lead to his, “missed steaks”.
Isn't the whole narrative around Mike McCarthy that he learned from his mistakes?
There's a difference in learning from something you were terrible at and tweaking some things you were already good at.
McCarthy has the record to back that up. Rodgers got his way and Green Bay isn't better because of it.
I'd argue Jim Caldwell is every bit as qualified as McCarthy, infact maybe moreso.
Caldwell got to a Super Bowl as a Head Coach
Caldwell took two different teams in 2 different conferences to the playoffs
Caldwell proved he could still win without Hall of Fame Peyton Manning, McCarthy hasn't proven he can do anything without Farve/Rodgers
Jim Caldwell is probably the best QB builder in the NFL right now and he is responsible for taking Peyton Manning play to a whole new level, and Manning himself even admitted this.
Why are we not talking to Caldwell, he is built for the Browns.
Caldwell will also pluck an assistant of the Dungy tree to run his D for him so he cna focus on O, specifically coaching his QB while having an OC call the plays.
you look how well Stafford played after Caldwell got there, and how much he fell off when he left.
Jim Caldwell should be getting every bit as much attention as McCarthy, and Caldwell isn't running an outdated O either, he is running the same system Manning ran in Indy, and that O fits Mayfield strengths to a tee.
Caldwell come soff the Tony Dungy coaching tree, He is a fantastic coach, Sad he can't even get a damn interview.
No coach has ever won a Super Bowl with more than one team, so the chances of McCarthy winning one here is very slim.
If you put a gun to my head and made me choose, i'd choose Caldwell. He just fits more of what we want, and he a better QB teacher than McCarthy.
PS: Caldwell also had a .500 record against McCarthy Packers from 2014-2017 despite having much inferior talent. just an FYI. Caldwell gets more out of less.
Isn't the whole narrative around Mike McCarthy that he learned from his mistakes?
There's a difference in learning from something you were terrible at and tweaking some things you were already good at.
McCarthy has the record to back that up. Rodgers got his way and Green Bay isn't better because of it.
I'd argue Jim Caldwell is every bit as qualified as McCarthy, infact maybe moreso.
Caldwell got to a Super Bowl as a Head Coach
Caldwell took two different teams in 2 different conferences to the playoffs
Caldwell proved he could still win without Hall of Fame Peyton Manning, McCarthy hasn't proven he can do anything without Farve/Rodgers
Jim Caldwell is probably the best QB builder in the NFL right now and he is responsible for taking Peyton Manning play to a whole new level, and Manning himself even admitted this.
Why are we not talking to Caldwell, he is built for the Browns.
Caldwell will also pluck an assistant of the Dungy tree to run his D for him so he cna focus on O, specifically coaching his QB while having an OC call the plays.
you look how well Stafford played after Caldwell got there, and how much he fell off when he left.
Jim Caldwell should be getting every bit as much attention as McCarthy, and Caldwell isn't running an outdated O either, he is running the same system Manning ran in Indy, and that O fits Mayfield strengths to a tee.
Caldwell come soff the Tony Dungy coaching tree, He is a fantastic coach, Sad he can't even get a damn interview.
Caldwell is old..thats why he's not getting a HC job again. He's not more qualified than McCarthy..thats just silly
Quote: No matter where he ends up, McCarthy doesn't envision a total teardown. ("I'm not a believer in [that]," he said. "I think every one of these opportunities that will be available, there's resources in there that you have to make sure you're aware of and try to utilize.") He wants to better use technology and analytics. ("We were definitely on the average side at best in my time in Green Bay there. I've looked at every team in the league and their commitment to analytics, and football technology and video. Because everybody has analytics, but it has to be part of your everyday operation to show up on Sundays.") At the forefront of the program will be player wellness, including dedicated resources for mental health. ("You have to develop the locker room from every possible angle. It can't be a subcontractor. It needs to be part of your everyday operation.")
These are excellent ideas. I especially like the bit about incorporating player wellness into the program. Positive effects from that should carry over to the film room and practice field, and ultimately on game days. Plus it's the right thing to do.
No coach has ever won a Super Bowl with more than one team, so the chances of McCarthy winning one here is very slim.
If you put a gun to my head and made me choose, i'd choose Caldwell. He just fits more of what we want, and he a better QB teacher than McCarthy.
PS: Caldwell also had a .500 record against McCarthy Packers from 2014-2017 despite having much inferior talent. just an FYI. Caldwell gets more out of less.
Four #1 seeds never made it to the final four of the NCAA basketball tournament... until it happened.
These kind of statistical games are fairly meaningless when it comes to predicting future events. Caldwell is a good coach but it seems like using McCarthy's Super Bowl win against McCarthy (which is the logical endpoint of your argument) is very backwards...
Here’s an early prediction for how everything shakes out in Cleveland: Paul DePodesta winds up with more power, Andrew Berry becomes GM, Kevin Stefanksi as head coach.
My biggest concern with the Stefanski situation is the Browns wanting him to be their guy just before MIN fires Zimmer this weekend & promotes Stefanski to HC.
There’s been rumblings that this could happen due to his popularity in the FO & Zimmer only 1 year left on his deal.
Dude, you have no idea. Just like nobody else does. Nobody has any idea how much if any power DePodesta has in who the next HC will be. You're just sour right now. Give it a rest. As of now DePodesta is a part time numbers guy who lives in California.
Nothing actually points to him being any more than that other than rumors, the wishes of some and the hopes and dreams of the Sashiites.
yep. He doesn't even live in Ohio and you have nothing but noise to prove otherwise. Just your dreams of what the 1-31 crowd did here. Oh how I miss that.
yep. He doesn't even live in Ohio and you have nothing but noise to prove otherwise. Just your dreams of what the 1-31 crowd did here. Oh how I miss that.
And yet he is now leading the HC search.
It's 2019 2020. We have mobile phones, the internet, video conferencing, google sheets, airplanes, etc.
He'll give his input just as he's done before. But leading it? He has done pretty well with his recommendations on who should be the HC so I hope his recommendations are taken seriously.
If Haslam's McDaniels love plays out as to him being the next HC, I'm quite sure it wasn't DePodesta who recommended that. There's a big difference in leading the search and having the final say.
The Haslem's don't care about winning, they just care about making a splash.
If they don't hire MM I'm truly done until there is new ownership.
As long as the Haslem's are in control, you will see exactly the same things you've always seen on Sunday's....LOSING!
MM has no say in it I suppose? He's got other interviews, other perks to consider. The NYG is a high profile gig. That has weight to it for a guy. MM or anyone might not come here regardless of ownerships effort to hire them.
1. Assistant GM Eliot Wolf has a good chance to remain through the next head coaching/GM hire, from what I've been told. He has a good relationship with Paul DePodesta, is low-key in the org and very smart, and will likely stay unless someone comes in and insists on his removal.
2. VP of player personnel Alonzo Highsmith had not been fired as of Wednesday morning and may be headed to the University of Miami. Ownership/DePodesta will have a talk with Highsmith soon about his status in Cleveland going forward. I believe he will be out, one way or another
3. Part of why the Dorsey firing happened, beyond Kitchens' failure, is owner Jimmy Haslam realized he can't run an org w/ football & analytics being opposing forces in any way. He tried to force people to work together and it failed. He needs everyone unified from day 1 in 2020.
4. While DePodesta's title hasn't changed, he's clearly the No. 1 under Haslam in this coaching search. And if that remains the case, it's going to impact the candidate field. Josh McDaniels, for example, is going to be a problematic target if DePodesta retains a power position.
5. There's strong opinion agreement amongst those who have left the #Browns (from many departments) about 3 things: Haslam lacks patience; Haslam's word is hard to trust; and Haslam's relies to often on "side juries" to weigh in on the performance of others. None of this is good.
6. Many Ex-#Browns w/ varying opinions of DePodesta agree on 1 thing: If DePo is in the org, best shot of Browns turning around is hiring DePo's coach/GM, & having that trio lock arms on a unified vision. It will help if all 3 are working together to overcome Haslam's impatience
7. If #Browns fans got anything out of this thread, please give us a shot on the @YahooSportsNFL podcast. Myself & @TerezPaylor did a late New Year's Eve taping to chop up the latest on Browns. We try to deliver on the pod and appreciate every subscriber.
The Vikings had added Gary Kubiak as an assistant head coach at Stefanski’s behest, bringing the former Super Bowl-winning head coach onto their offensive staff. They also hired Kubiak’s son, Klint, and two of his longtime assistants in a series of moves that quickly signaled how significantly Kubiak would shape the team’s latest offensive overhaul.
Rather than forcing the Kubiaks, offensive line coach Rick Dennison and tight ends coach Brian Pariani to adopt the terminology that had become familiar to him, Stefanski told the group he would learn the offensive language they’d used for years together. It was easier, he reasoned, for one person to adjust to four people than the other way around. It didn’t matter that the person laying down his preference was also the one who ultimately would call the shots.
“That tells you who Kevin is. I don’t even know what words to describe it,” Gary Kubiak said. “It tells you why he’s going to get to the top and have a chance to be such a hell of a head coach in this league. Really, it was an unselfishness on his part. He could have come in here and bullhorned us into what we’re doing. He said, ‘No — let’s talk your language. I can catch up.’ I expected that, because of what I knew about him.”
The Vikings had added Gary Kubiak as an assistant head coach at Stefanski’s behest, bringing the former Super Bowl-winning head coach onto their offensive staff. They also hired Kubiak’s son, Klint, and two of his longtime assistants in a series of moves that quickly signaled how significantly Kubiak would shape the team’s latest offensive overhaul.
Rather than forcing the Kubiaks, offensive line coach Rick Dennison and tight ends coach Brian Pariani to adopt the terminology that had become familiar to him, Stefanski told the group he would learn the offensive language they’d used for years together. It was easier, he reasoned, for one person to adjust to four people than the other way around. It didn’t matter that the person laying down his preference was also the one who ultimately would call the shots.
“That tells you who Kevin is. I don’t even know what words to describe it,” Gary Kubiak said. “It tells you why he’s going to get to the top and have a chance to be such a hell of a head coach in this league. Really, it was an unselfishness on his part. He could have come in here and bullhorned us into what we’re doing. He said, ‘No — let’s talk your language. I can catch up.’ I expected that, because of what I knew about him.”
If Stefanski is able to bring Gary Kubiak with him that is a pretty good situation to be in, I would favor that over McDaniels.
If we don't get McCarthy - and I've heard nothing on Jim Harbaugh who is another successful NFL ex-HC I'd strongly look at - then Stefanski probably tops my list next. This is a really nice story that highlights the selflessness of the individual and says a lot.
Jim is having his usual college big game day experience currently. Having his arse outcoached and handed back to him. I couldn't stand to see him on the sideline weekly.
On the other hand, if Stefanski was DePos top pick last year he sure hasn't done anything to drop I'd say. Someone could have rose above him but who knows.
I've spent the last couple days reading about Mike McCarthy, Josh McDaniels, and Kevin Stefanski. I think we are in a pretty good spot with any of the three. McCarthy and McDaniels seemed to have learned from their last stints as head coaches. Stefanski has the exact resume you would want a first time coach to have. Based on what I know about the three, which is very little, I'd take McDaniels first, then Stefanski, and then McCarthy but none are a bad choice.
I still could live with it. Not sure that Depo is as big as this board would have us believe. Maybe.
I think a solid NFL HC would help. MM can do a lot of good stuff beyond some of the others' reach. Winning may help all of us re-focus. Haven't tried that yet. No worries. Whoever we pick, the trolls and media, virtually indistinguishable too often, will have plenty of negatives to drive their chosen narrative.
I resignedly agree that all these folks may not be wrong, but also maintain that positives may be lost in the process. Too much to see yet for this flood of negativity.
PS No Harbaugh. Lousy looking loss today. Part of it was QB problems. Not the sort of continuity that we need. Going forward is a snappy phrase, widely used. Any time now.
Jim is having his usual college big game day experience currently. Having his arse outcoached and handed back to him. I couldn't stand to see him on the sideline weekly.
On the other hand, if Stefanski was DePos top pick last year he sure hasn't done anything to drop I'd say. Someone could have rose above him but who knows.
As a college guy he has failed - he is very average - as the 49ers HC he had a lot of success. I've said it elsewhere, my interest in Jim is based on my belief he is a much better NFL coach than a college coach. AND I'd rather go with an experienced (good) NFL coach than an up and coming coordinator. Stefanski might be just about the only guy like that I'd really want. McCarthy was and is and will remain as the top choice for me.
I've spent the last couple days reading about Mike McCarthy, Josh McDaniels, and Kevin Stefanski. I think we are in a pretty good spot with any of the three. McCarthy and McDaniels seemed to have learned from their last stints as head coaches. Stefanski has the exact resume you would want a first time coach to have. Based on what I know about the three, which is very little, I'd take McDaniels first, then Stefanski, and then McCarthy but none are a bad choice.
This is where I'm at. McDaniels and Stefanski are very close for me and then it's McCarthy.
My super hot take: In the Pelissero video on McCarthy, McCarthy comes across as a little desperate for work (not from a financial standpoint) and I think he'd take any offer rather than the one that was the best fit.
*I'd have no issues with McCarthy being the guy, just an observation.
I believe it's in reference to Zimmer losing his job if they don't do well in the playoffs and Stefanski being appointed Vikings HC. It's one of the speculations out there. Reason to root for the Vikings to win.
:puke:
