Yikes

Well, I guess the Dorsey press conference was cancelled for the reason mentioned initially.

And I follow this team why, exactly?

Looks like McDaniels

Clearly the Haslams are completely clueless. Please sell the team you POS. Why do Browns continuously get crapped on?

Or Stefanski and we are going all in on analytics.

OMG I am so OVER THIS TEAM!!!

It just gets really, really old...

Get it right this time, please!!!!!!

I hate this team.

I think I'm just going to stick with soccer.

WE ARE A FRIGGIN DISASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sucking the joy out of football since 1999.

Haslem should rename the team "The Cleveland Dumpster Fires" .... because that's what they have been .... especially during his ownership.

I never thought I would ever look back on the Lerner Jr years fondly.

I will hold my judgement until I see what our owners replace the coaching and management talent with.

Only two possibilities that I would consider an upgrade.

I talked with a couple of buddies last night. The only real possibility I saw that might happen is pairing up McCarthy with Eliot Wolf again.

Sure fire the guy that built your whole team, and made all those deals, draft picks, and brought you all that talent.

That makes so much sense!!!!

What kind of morons run this team!!!

thats not a good pairing..they are very meh towards each other

McCarthy, Stefanski, or McDaniels will be the HC

Pit..that was one scenario I considered..

On Paul DePodesta: The Browns chief strategy officer lives in San Diego. He's had the owner's ear over the years. I'd say a number of scenarios are on the table for him as well.

Could become more influential. Could leave the team. Could remain in his current role. We'll see.

https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1212088745891119104

Oof.

Maybe we should all go root for Buffalo?

Well I guess we know why the Dorsey press conference didn't happen today. I knew something was up.

Dorsey lost another power play where he just doesn't work with other people well..its a simple as that...my guess, is PD showed haslam his last two draft boards and coaching picks and they compared to Dorsey and it probably looked like dorsey missed alot more than he hit...which he has

I've asked this before,now I'll ask you directly;
"where have you been this century and what gives you even a minimal glimmer of hope that they will get it right?'

The next hires will be nothing more than names added to list of people who the team has fired.

Haslam must really like paying people to "not" work for him.

I figured Dorsey job would be in jeopardy, and I had been telling folks for weeks on here, and most said I was crazy lol. Not so crazy now is it?

That being said, even though I wasn't a fan of Dorsey, I would have been OK giving him another year, I mean Jackson won 1 game in two years and was given a 3rd year lol

The Haslam's are just a train wreck. I personally think this pretty much 100% confirms McDaniels is the guy. No way McCarthy comes here now, we only had a leg up because of Dorsey, Highsmith, and Wolf, and I am sure Wolf is working out his parting arrangement as well, no way he stays here in this mess.

It will be perfectly fitting now for the Pats to go to the Super Bowl, the Browns wait on McDaniels, only for him to pull out and leave Jimmy Haslam with no coach lol

you heard it here first, this is typical kneejerk by the Haslams, and its going to be costly and hurt this time around.

Some key members of the personnel team assembled by John Dorsey have begun exploring work opportunities elsewhere. As one source said, it feels like they lost the battle to chief strategist Paul DePodesta, whose presence lingered in the Browns building the last two years.

https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1212086916079915009

insiders have commented on some shady things going on with JD, so we’ll see

That's all speculation....

One schmuck down. Maybe the next GM can find a real QB.

Now who fires Haslam? Oh wait....

Giving Depo (aka the smartest man when in Berea) the full reigns in the organization, I'd assume would mean a move to Cleveland. I'm not sure he would do that.

You know who the Haslams LOVE? Andrew Berry, who spent the last year as the #Eagles VP of Football Operations after serving three years as the #Browns’ VP of Player Personnel. But will they choose their GM or let their next head coach have a say?

https://twitter.com/AKinkhabwala/status/1212089119611981824

As in?

Yeah, I've seen that too.

not sure ..

It certainly is. Thus the word "possibility". I'm not even sure why I would speculate on the Haslams making decisions that make sense anymore.

Yup. There have been rumors about him as well.

The suffering is never gonna end is it?

I don’t understand what Dorsey did wrong. The Corbett pick was bad but other than that he’s loaded the team with talent.

Kitchens had a rough rookie year but we knew he’d have to grow when we hired him.

I’m so sick of Haslam.

With Dorsey apparently on the outs, the leakers are back in full force. Always a good sign for an organization to have multiple individuals with loyalty to a member of the national media ... /sarc.

There are reports that McCarthy and Wolf do not get along.

It’s gonna be Paul Depo as the GM and an analytics HC ...

Fix that for you. No way McCarthy comes here now, We just fired two of his close friends in Dorsey and HighSmith, especially Alonzo Highsmith.

Elliot Wolf and McCarthy don't reall get along and had been some friction in Green Bay, but Dorsey and Highsmith were very good buddies with McCarthy

You cna' scratch McCarthy, unless we give him a Gruden type of contract and allow him to pick his own FO.

Actually the opposite if you read reports...McCarthy was very lukewarm towards working with those guys

Callaway, cut Avery, cut Nassib, traded Ogbah, traded a 3rd for Tyrod T., HIRED Freddie,

Dorsey did more good than wrong, and I wanted to see another year, but he did more than just miss on Corbett.

Here is my understanding of where things stand: #Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam are going to recommend a new front office structure, as
@TomPelissero
described. And presented with that option, GM John Dorsey is expected to say no thanks. And the team will have a vacancy.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1212091206458650626

All of this is leading to Josh McDaniels.

As i said before, it will only fitting for us to come to terms with McDaniels, him to accept, and The Pats to go deep into the playoffs/Super Bowl only for McDaniels to pull out leaving us high and dry just like he did to Indy.

I'd love to have McDaniels, but I won't trust him till he has signed the contract and the Colts were never able to get him too despite accepting the job.

I would hope your right, we should be going after McCarthy 100%. He already has all his assistants picked out and everything, we can hire him and get to moveing on fixing things tommrow.

Just interview Wilks already to satisfy the Rooney Rule and hire McCarthy then lol

You listed a bunch of mediocre guys, mostly 3rd rounders. Wouldn’t hold that against a GM. None of them are lighting it up anywhere else.

He hired Kitchend to grow into the role. If it was a one year, win now or fired he probably would’ve hired someone else. I mean, I never wanted Kitchens but if he makes a plan Haslam needs to stick to it. No franchise has ever gotten good firing coaches and GM every year

Maybe we get Condoleezza this time.

I gotta admit, I don't get this move. Under Dorsey, we've seen a major talent increase.. Did it pan out under Kitchens, No, But I think that's more Kitchens than Dorsey.

Until I get a clearer picture of why, I'm thinking this is a dumb move.

Nassib had a great year, Ogbah played good ball. He let them go and didn't upgrade. Where they were drafted doesn't matter.

Also, the people that matter, held it against him.

name one from this draft that looks even serviceable?

I hate this team.

actually in terms of talent, regardless of if they still play for us or play elsewhere...one could argue Sashi brought in better overall team talent

I have no idea if the Browns HC search led to Dorsey's firing, which would be problematic from a 30,000 ft organizational level, but I think this helps encapsulate the issues of Dorsey.



This is a good chunk, but there is a good amount more.

I thought MM wasn't keen on Dorsey during the last go round.

Who knows...

Wow, talking about not giving a guy time to build your team. Dorsey is probably glad he is out of that mess. The power struggle in Cleveland continues! Hope things work out in the end but I seriously doubt it will.

Haslems must want a coach that demands more control.. Better be Belicheck and not McDainiels . Or maby Bill Parcells.

I made a post yesterday with alot of this..Dorsey has created holes where we didn't have them and overpaid for bad players and failed to hit enough on the draft given how much capital he was given...we could have contracted Kiper and hit on more picks

No GM ever went in to a better situation than Dorsey. He failed (as evidenced by his firing).

You know what I look at? I look at what Dorsey did in GB and KC. Too bad he won't get the chance to do that here now! The insanity continues in Cleveland.

Jimmy & Dee Haslam's resume: 5 fired head coaches, 5 fired general managers, 2 fired team presidents, 32 wins, 88 losses, 1 tie.

https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/1212094538619215872

The Haslams have been failing since they bought the team. This is just another in a long line of bone headed moves by them.

Agreed on the first sentence. Wait and see on the second sentence.

The Cleveland Browns and John Dorsey have mutually agreed to part ways. Dorsey was named general manager on December 7, 2017.

Statement from Dee and Jimmy Haslam

"We have a great appreciation for John and all he has done with the Cleveland Browns. He has helped create a foundation that we need to continue to develop and build upon. While John helped greatly improve our team’s talent and we are excited about the core players on our roster, we fully recognized that our team did not meet its potential on or off the field and additional changes in leadership give us the best opportunity for success in the future. As the role of the general manager continues to evolve in this league we felt there were areas that needed to be reassessed. Over the last 48 hours, we’ve had discussion with John about his role but could not come to an agreement on a position that would enable him to remain with the organization.

“As we conveyed on Sunday and our players reiterated yesterday, bringing in a strong leader with our head coach is our priority. Our process to improve upon the leadership will allow the flexibility to ensure we create the best partnership between our future head coach and general manager. We know the road of our tenure as stewards of this franchise has been a test of patience as we all want the success that our fans so deserve and we are relentlessly committed to and working towards. We fully appreciate, understand and empathize with our fans as we work towards our ultimate goal of building a championship-level football team.”

Statement from John Dorsey

“When I took this job, the history of this storied franchise and the passion of our fans was an integral part of my decision. It is that same understanding and desire to see these fans enjoy the success they are so deserving of that helped me conclude, along with Jimmy and Dee, that it was best to part ways as they embark on the search for a new head coach. I know how critical the relationship is between a general manager and head coach and I also know how critical it is that the Browns have a strong leader in their next coach. I have a great appreciation for the men and women I have worked with since being in Cleveland and my family has the same love and appreciation for this community and are thankful for the opportunity to be a part of this journey.”

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/bro...medium=referral

If Dorsey is out they already made it.

Dorsey is out; could not come to an agreement on a restructuring of the front office. Sounds like he wouldn't have total control and didn't like it.

Did some good things and did some lousy things. Baker is on notice right now. He better get to work in the weight room, the film room and in training camp. Less commercials and interviews and more time devoted to being a PROFESSIONAL football player for the Cleveland Browns.

I'm wondering if the Haslams will ever get it right. SMH

According to Browns and Johns Staement - MUTUALLY agreed to part ways.

Meaning to me with my "deductive reasoning" the next HC or Depodesta are getting all the power.

he gets alot of credit for Green Bay when truth is he wasn't the GM... during his time that was wolf, Sherman, Thompson

Berry. As in Andrew Berry.

Would like to take this opportunity to thank the NFL for the gift that keeps on giving and giving " The Haslams "

Haslams part strongly inferred they want more analytics

Thats what I think as well

It may be Stefanski the more I think

Well at least you're actually using deductive reasoning this time.

Damn Nerds!

Sounds like is was a mutual agreement to part ways.

He's retweeted his own post a few times (kinda like a SuperBrown post ) and he has good info.

And here I thought Berry and Zeigler were a comedy team out of Vegas.

Happy freaking New Year everybody. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

I mean, it was deductive reasoning as it was what I said tho

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

They are going to hire a 1 year OC in Stepinitkawski???


Another Freddie Kitchens...Geezzzzzzzzzzzz!

What a mess.

if they use deductive reasoning they are fat sitting in a tree

When is your turn?

Happy Freaking New Year Browns fans!!!

So is Paul Depodesta going to be the new GM or will he be the one hiring the new GM?

Also,

Another rumor suggests this is setting Urban Meyer to take over as GM and President of Football Operations. Remember Meyer has been linked to the Haslam's for weeks, and he has been consulting with The Haslam's on what to do.

Maybe they announce Urban Meyer hiring into the Front Office soon.

2020 Cleveland Browns:
New GM
New Head Coach
New Uniforms
Same Ole

https://twitter.com/H_Grove/status/1212097161300758531

Is that you Sashi?

Except they got the record wrong. We're 33-94-1 under Jimmah and Dee since 2012.

2012: 5-11
2013: 4-12
2014: 7-9
2015: 3-13
2016: 1-15
2017: 0-16
2018: 7-8-1
2019: 6-10

Edit: Nope I was wrong, the Browns were 1-6 in October of 2012 when the sale became official. So yes, 32-88-1.

I've been saying he would be fired.

The goal is to have everyone on the same page. They basically chose DePodesta's vision over Dorsey's vision (my guess is that they also couldn't hire the coach they wanted with Dorsey around). The problem is that the Haslams are still in charge.

The first guy to give us any talent is kicked out the door by the Scum known as the Haslem's.

Yep ! Thank you NFL .

Is it any wonder the national sports media thinks the Browns are a joke.

Who the hell is Andrew Berry???

This is the Dorsey thread, why are you talking about Sashi Brown?

I think the new guy brings in all his own people probably directed by DePo.
All on the same page hopefully. Have we had that in the last 20 years?

From what MKC tweeted, Depo will remain in his role, just with more say and the next GM and HC will be hired in tandem.

Eagles VP of Football Operations.

I know most of these guys have a staff picked out but this candidate will need a GM willing to either move with him from A to B or join up. Tends to.lean towards a more established and well liked guy. Maybe?

Hard to fathom how poorly this organization is being run.

Disgusting.

I have seen it all from Paul Brown to Haslam. For the city of Cleveland and Browns fans everywhere I am truly sorry.

You deserve better.

I am so apathetic at this point I have zero interest in even discussing the future of this team.

I'm intrigued by the potential lineup of:

DePodesta
Berry
Stefanski.

Berry is definitely in the fold here

We are currently 16th in cap space for 2020 with $51,678,765. We will inevitably cut several guys (Christian Kirksey, T.J. Carrie, Chris Hubbard, Morgan Burnett, Demetrius Harris, Adarius Taylor, Kendall Lamm, and Eric Kush come to mind). We should be in pretty good shape going forward.

If DePodesta is in charge be ready for lots of trading down in the draft.

I hate this team. Now I have to go to football on Saturday and explain to people that the Browns are run by idiots. While they all snicker.

I'm betting they're not going to stick a guy (coach) into something he's really not comfortable with.

I think this is the most likely outcome at this point. I wish Stefanski had more of a track record of success.

Also:

Harvard
Harvard
Penn

Cue the meltdown from the Homers now who buy into every move the Browns make

This team ruins my bar cred.

Most fans complain about the results on the field and who made the decisions to get that player or coach, and when changes are made do to lack of results.. they complain even more

Go Chiefs!

Not really surprised at all by this.

You could see the writing on the wall, b/t reports from Schefter saying the new coach would have input on the GM staying or going, the cancelled press conference and other reports.

Looks like DePo will have a larger voice.

We'll see how this all plays out.

Yes, by all means, that will really get the turnstiles clicking down at First Energy on Sundays.

I don't think this necessarily true in every case. It depends, really. The value assigned to the available player and his perceived position value or lack thereof vs. the value of the return via trade.

I think current team composition makes a difference as well.

But IF DePo in charge is very much a thing up the air. I would not be surprised if his role stays the same.

Good time to become a Las Vegas Raiders fan I guess.

I think his TITLE is staying the same, but he will have more of a voice in picking the GM and Coach.

I guess there's nothing to be said for experience.
The excuses for failing will be plentiful.

only question in HC interview will open ended: "How do you feel about analytics and predictive analytics and the application in picking players and coaching players and developing gameplans

Outside of Garrett, Who is better than Mayfield, Ward and Chubb from the draft and better than Landry and some Dbacks and maybe even Vernon (had he stayed healthy) and OBJ (again, if he'd have remained healthy)

I really don't think you can argue with the talent Dorsey has brought aboard...

I haven’t watched coach, FO, or player pressers for years now. I’m so glad I stopped investing any time into what any of them have to say.
Later today, or in the coming days, a desk full of talking stuffed suits will be sitting in front of the press and answering the same questions, the same way all the last stuffed suits have since 1999.
At this point we as fans should not listen/watch, let alone let them speak without actions on the field represent something worth being spoken about. Press blackout. Bunch of nonsense circle jerk talk anyway.

Big moves, although a shot in the arm (kinda like over spending in FA), rarely work out in end. It's starts with guys like Andre Risen, Mike Holmgren, and recently Odell Beckham (at least so far).

Agreed. I'm not going to be too critical of the player acquisitions Dorsey made because I think it's too easy when viewing through hindsight.

But I think it's wholly possible to be great at recognizing and acquiring talent, but not being able to make it a cohesive unit. For example, I can fire up the latest Madden edition, create a roster full of 99's... but I still can't play the game worth a crap.

talking about draft...problem is each had different roles...Sashi was told to tear it down and acquire assets in which to rebuild it from the ground up..he did that. Dorsey was supposed to build a winner, he was given massive amount of assets and squandered almost all of them. Not a single draft pick this season scored about 60's Thats a huge issue...Mack Wilson scored a 42, Even from last year, only 3 players this year scored above 60. All the players he brought in this by trading picks for all scored below 60 and are deemed replaceable by PFF...i know not a complete picture, but my point is Dorsey didn't bring in nearly as much talent as people think..brought in some high dollar artisan bread and stuck spam between them

If you are asking the fans to be excited about a baseball guy, a rookie GM, and a rookie HC, then I'm sorry, I call that having a tin ear with regards to customer relations. At some point, there will be no getting some of those customers back.

This is what immediately came to mind after I read the Haslam's statement. Promoting Wolf from within probably isn't a bad idea for a couple of reasons: first, I think a fair number of people thought he was about ready for a GM gig anyway when we brought him on board.. second, he's been here long enough to know what they are trying to do under DePo's structure. The key here would be whether or not he was on board or was resistant.

I don't know what the feelings between Wolf and McCarthy are. EVen if they are lukewarm it doesn't mean they can't work together. Especially if we assume Wolf is on board with DePo's structure AND if McCarthy has really been looking more in to the analytical side of things (I think we can presume the personnel he has been putting together are along that track) they may actually be more on the same page than they ever were.

Kind of like when Dorsey leaked this just before the final Browns vs Bengals game?....

But what's it say if the "baseball guy" is turning out to be correct more often than the "football guys"?

Gross I just tweeted that it won’t be McDaniels

If Grossi said this, then it's DEFINITELY McDaniels.

He doesn't have a clue. Throwing darts.

That's not a leak. Its a reply to a direct question by the GM of an organization in which he allowed full attribution. None of this "sources inside the organization" BS.

But Eve, he didn't. He made some good moves and a lot of bad moves. I for one think OBJ was a bad move.

In the end all was good until John hired Freddie Kitchens.

I agree, we should have won last(this) year, but we didn't. Mainly because of the coaching hire Dorsey made last season.

I do feel bad for John and liked him. Had he got that pick even close to right, it would be a different discussion. He didn't. It was about as bad a pick as he could have made unless he pulled up a season ticket members account number and named them head coach. Well, unless he pulled up mine....jk

There seems to be no plan or cohesiveness. Just power struggles and knee jerk reactions by the Haslams. I wouldn't want to be the next GM knowing I only have two years to turn a losing franchise into a winner or I'm out the door.

Why is he a baseball guy? Why can't he be a smart guy that made analytics in baseball relevant because baseball did it first?

I honestly think the "I flexed my muscles and got what I wanted" brag rubbed people the wrong way, especially when Freddie's production was so bad. Dorsey wanted power and people who would jump when he said jump and act as though anything he said was a mandate from God.

Dorsey was so linked to Freddie that when the season went south, so did Dorsey's credibility. That is why the Haslam's required a reduced role for Dorsey. It doesn't matter who you pick, if you don't win, you don't keep your job.

Sounds like Dorsey wasn't happy with the front office restructuring and his reduced role and agreed to part ways with the Browns. I really don't blame him.

It shouldn't have been a losing team this year. After last years hire of Freddie, no way the Haslams could simply say go hire another coach.

I don't think the Haslams fired John. I think they were going to change things and both sides decided it best to come to terms on a severance.

Eh, our GM was leaking stuff to the media. Turns out he had bad info!

I think that's why the new tandem will come together from somewhere or are already familiar and have no doubt they cam work together.

Lamar Jackson > Josh Allen > Sam Darnold > Baker Mayfield

The above is probably a reason why John Dorsey no longer has a job.

That would be an opinion, not necessarily a fact.

BC...It come from within...we don't quit..I just won't quit.

This bastard ownership will either get this right or be forced to sell the team...but I'm a Browns fan since I was 9 or 10 yrs. Dad and I watched the Browns play every sunday on TV.

The Browns,back then, inspired me...

I think he would've turned the Browns into winners if they had just given him more time.

I agree

I agree. He wasn't a baseball guy, before he was a baseball guy.

In the end, people are afraid of things they don't understand.

There was a time when computers were deemed the end.

Actually, I will argue my own point. When the lights go out, how many people are going to be able to do the math, etc with a pencil and paper?

It won't take long for the world's knowledge to be lost. We are back to hunter/gatherers.

More likely McCarthy … JMO

This really gets me depressed. I'll just turn myself back into the casual observer i was from 2012 -2017. I'm back to not caring if they win or lose.

Now we have to endure another roster turnover with a new regime. I'm so tired of it. I'm definitely taking up a new hobby next fall.

I personally don't believe this to be true. Clearly, Jackson has skyrocketed into stardom. But I don't think the above ...Allen and Darnold ranking ,relative to Baker, are a reason for the decision.

Baker regressed, no doubt. I still think Baker has 'it' and if, in the end, Baker thrives as a franchise QB, Dorsey should get all the credit.

Dorsey was fired because he wasted money in FA, punted guys that weren't his own acquisitions, well, just because & it effected starting caliber/depth, misused extra draft capital that he was gifted, and he hired Kitchens.

It's that simple, at least for me.

I'd say IF wolf stays or gets promoted to GM.

Trading a fairly solid line away and drafting manure started it for me. You just cant do that.

Man what a week... glad wolf is still here for now... always liked him... hope he sticks or gets promoted...

I thought I read once way back when we first brought DePo on board that he originally tried to develop analytics for football. He didn't get any takers so he then took it over to baseball.

I need time to digest this. Right now, words cannot express my frustration with the Haslams.

At least, in English words. I'll give Klingon a go;

qamuS. jIHvaD jISaQ chenmoH SoH!

I don’t have any sympathetic feelings for the Haslem’s, but when Freddie was presented as the new HC, I DID think they must have been cringing at his demeanor and crappy insistence on wearing that hat with the coat and tie.

I am going to burn my jersey tonight.

Time to follow something else.

Dee and Jimmy are totally clueless.

I'm not a Dorsey fan, but that's not what he did, EXCEPT for the Zeitler trade, which was a massive blunder.


Robinson & Harrison(lol)/ Bitonio/Tretter /Zeitler/ Hubbard

The interior pass protection suffered and Hubbard/Robinson got exponentially worse in 2019 as opposed to 2018. Hubbard had a bad 2018 but this year was disgusting....couple the RT issue with a turntable at RG, we knew where the issues was on the line throughout the season.

Clearing the way for McCarthy That's my belief and I'm Sticking to it

He's one I'd think would want and get what he wants. Although I'm not sure he warrants it Josh McD seems to be in that category. As far as Stefanski, I don't think I'm sure what relationships and credibility he totes around. I like McCarthy but I dont think any of those three would shock me.

2018 Draft:

Baker Mayfield
Denzel Ward
Austin Corbett
Nick Chubb
Chad Thomas
Antonio Callaway
Genard Avery
Damion Ratley
Simeon Thomas

2018 Trades:

March 14, 2018: Traded DeShone Kizer, 2018 4th round pick (101st overall subsequently traded, Ian Thomas) and 2018 5th round pick (138th overall, Cole Madison) to Packers for Damarious Randall, 2018 4th round pick (114th overall subsequently traded, Da'Shawn Hand) and 2018 5th round pick (150th overall, Genard Avery)
March 14, 2018: Traded 2018 4th round pick (101st overall subsequently traded, Ian Thomas) and 2019 7th round pick (234th overall, Myles Gaskin) to Dolphins for Jarvis Landry
March 14, 2018: Traded Danny Shelton and 2018 5th round pick (159th overall subsequently traded, Daurice Fountain) to Patriots for 2019 3rd round pick (95th overall subsequently traded, Oshane Ximines)
March 14, 2018: Traded 2018 3rd round pick (65th overall subsequently traded, Brandon Parker) to Bills for Tyrod Taylor
March 15, 2018: Traded Jason McCourty and 2018 7th round pick (219th overall, Danny Etling) to Patriots for 2018 6th round pick (205th overall subsequently traded, Trevon Young)
April 27, 2018: Traded 2018 2nd round pick (64th overall, Tyquan Lewis) to Colts for 2018 3rd round pick (67th overall, Chad Thomas) and 2018 6th round pick (178th overall subsequently traded, Christian Sam)
April 28, 2018: Traded 2018 4th round pick (114th overall subsequently traded, Da'Shawn Hand) and 2018 6th round pick (178th overall, Christian Sam) to Patriots for 2018 4th round pick (105th overall, Antonio Callaway)
May 18, 2018: Traded Jamar Taylor to Cardinals for a 2020 6th round pick
August 5, 2018: Traded Corey Coleman to Bills for a 2020 7th round pick
August 31, 2018: Traded Shon Coleman to 49ers for 2019 7th round pick (243rd overall subsequently traded, Nick Scott)
September 1, 2018: Traded 2019 7th round pick (231st overall, Alize Mack) to Saints for Devaroe Lawrence
September 17, 2018: Traded Josh Gordon and 2019 7th round pick (243rd overall subsequently traded, Nick Scott) to Patriots for 2019 5th round pick (170th overall, Austin Seibert)
October 19, 2018: Traded Carlos Hyde to Jaguars for 2019 5th round pick (144th overall subsequently traded, Marvell Tell)

2018 Players added:

T.J. Carrie
Orson Charles
Darren Fells
E.J. Gaines
Chris Hubbard
Carlos Hyde
Jarvis Landry
Devaroe Lawrence
Terrance Mitchell
Damarious Randall
Greg Robinson
Brady Sheldon
Chris Smith
Drew Stanton
Tyrod Taylor
Earl Watford

Notable Undrafted Free Agents:

Daniel Ekuale
Desmond Harrison
Derrick Willies

Notable Cuts:

Spencer Drango
Carl Nassib
Austin Reiter

Jimmy Haslem buys the Browns in 2012, below is a list of statements after hiring/firing coaches or GM’s:

After Shurmer and Heckert were fired (2012):
"We felt that these moves were in the best interests of the Cleveland Browns and our future," Browns owner Jimmy Haslam III said in a statement released by the team. "I enjoyed getting to know Tom and Pat over the past several months, and want to thank them, not just for their contributions to the Browns, but also the insight they were able to provide. They are both fine men and hope they have the best of success as they move forward with their careers."
Joe Banner Hired (Oct, 2012)
"It came up from people we know and people we don't know," said Haslam, who built his fortune with Pilot Flying J truck stops. "Joe and I have spent a lot of time together over the last two or three months and have really come to know each other very well. I come from the business world and I have hired a lot of senior executives and I can look everybody in the room in the eye and I can say I've spent more time with this senior executive, making sure he was the right fit for the Cleveland Browns, than any we ever interviewed for Pilot Flying J, because I do think it's so important.
"I checked out Joe as thoroughly as anyone I ever checked out."
Chud Hired (Dec, 2013)
Along with owner Jimmy Haslam, CEO Joe Banner and Vice President of Player Personnel Michael Lombardi, Chudzinski has been asked to make the Browns relevant again.
After Chud Firing (Dec 2014):
"We appreciate Chud's passion for the Browns, and we have great respect for him both personally and professionally," the team said in an unattributed statement. "We needed to see progress with this football team. We needed to see development and improvement as the season evolved and, unfortunately, we took a concerning step backward in the second half of the year.
"Our fans deserve to see a consistently competitive team. We have high standards, and there's an urgency for success. When we believed we were not positioned to achieve significant progress in 2014, we knew we had to admit that a change was needed, and move forward."

Saying they "deserve the skepticism,'' Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and CEO Joe Banner spent a half hour Monday defending their unpopular decision to fire coach Rob Chudzinski after only one season and convincing an angry fan base that they'll get it right on their second try.
"As unpopular and undesirable for us to be sitting here right now and acknowledging that we didn't get it right, the fact that we're making this change makes a statement that we're not going to accept not being really successful,'' said Banner. "Whether you agree with the decision or not, that's an important message for our fans to hear. We're going to demand of everybody -- especially and starting with ourselves -- that we be successful and if we're not, we're going to do what we need to do to get there.''
Pettine Hired (Jan, 2014)
"We are thrilled to announce Mike Pettine as the new head coach of the Cleveland Browns. Mike is the epitome of what we want the Browns to be -- tough, aggressive and innovative -- with a blue-collar, team-first mentality. He knows what's necessary to beat teams in the AFC North. Most importantly, Mike has repeatedly shown the ability to lead his players to consistent improvement and success, clearly what we are striving for as he leads the Cleveland Browns moving forward."
Lombardi/Joe Banner Firing (Feb 2014)
"He is an experienced and creative NFL executive with a unique ability to see the big picture," Haslam said in a statement. "He has tremendous instincts and I know he’ll be a valuable addition to any NFL organization."
"The purpose of these moves is to unify our team with one, unequivocal goal: Provide our fans with the winning organization they have long deserved." team owner Jimmy Haslam said in a statement. He praised Banner and Lombardi but added, "We simply wanted to give Ray this opportunity that he's earned. We wanted to move forward under his leadership and capabilities."
Ray Farmer Promoted (Feb 2014)
“First of all, we wanted to capitalize on the knowledge, experience and character we’re fortunate to have in Ray Farmer. Ray has a tremendous football IQ, he’s compelling, and he understands the types of players we need to acquire and develop in order to win in Cleveland. He embraces his partnership with Mike Pettine, which is critical in helping build the right team. Ray will provide excellent leadership in our front office.

After Pettine and Farmer Fired (Jan 2016):
"We greatly appreciate Ray's and Mike's dedication and hard work while with the Cleveland Browns," Browns owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam said in a letter to fans. "We've made this decision because we don't believe our football team was positioned well for the future. We are all disappointed with where we are, and we take full responsibility."
Sashi Brown Promoted (Jan 2016):
"Sashi, I believe, is the right person to do this for the Cleveland Browns," owner Jimmy Haslam said on Sunday. "He's been in the NFL for 10-plus years, has been involved in the cap and has been heavily involved in our football administration and operations for the last year or two. He's very smart, very organized, good at systems and processes and an outstanding team player. He's also very strategic so we will use those skills and working for him will be a GM whose primary job will be talent acquisition."
Hue Jackson Hired (Jan 2016):
"(Jackson) embodies all the qualities that will provide strong leadership for our football team," Haslam said in a statement released by the team. "He is highly experienced, deeply passionate about winning, and relentless in trying to find ways to put his players in the best position to succeed. He possesses that unique ability to reach the entire locker room in a way that demands accountability while getting the buy-in and team-first mentality that leads to positive results."
After Sashi Brown Firing (Dec 2017):
We have great appreciation and gratitude for Sashi’s commitment and leadership to our organization but believe transitioning to someone with strong experience and success in drafting and building consistently winning football teams is critical to the future of the Cleveland Browns. Today we informed Sashi that we were going in a new direction. The 2018 draft and offseason is pivotal for our franchise, we need to ensure that we maximize our opportunity for success; with our picks, free agency and building our roster. Hue Jackson will remain our coach and will return for the 2018 season but we feel it is necessary to take significant steps to strengthen our personnel department. We have begun the process of having productive conversations regarding leadership of our football operations and will provide further updates when appropriate. We thank Sashi for all his hard work and dedication to the Cleveland Browns.
John Dorsey Hired (Dec 2017):
"We are thrilled to have John Dorsey lead our football operations," Dee and Jimmy Haslam said in a statement issued by the team. "John has been immersed in the NFL for 26 years, won two Super Bowls, built sustainable winning football teams and is highly respected for his football acumen. We know we have a critical and very positive opportunity ahead of us to profoundly impact the foundation of this football team. Bringing in someone of John Dorsey's caliber, his track record of success and his experience, significantly strengthens our opportunities to build a winning football team and that has been, and continues to be, what we want for our fans."
After Hue Firing (Oct 2018):
“We greatly appreciate Hue's commitment to the Cleveland Browns organization over the last two-and-a-half years,” the Haslams said in a statement.
“We understand how critical this time period is in the development of our football team, individually and collectively, and believed it was in the organization's best interest to make the move at this time, in order to maximize our opportunities the rest of this season. We certainly only wish Hue, Michelle, and his family the best moving forward.”
Freddie Hired (Jan 2019)

Freddie Fired (Dec 2019):
“We thank Freddie for his hard work and commitment to this organization but did not see the success or opportunities for improvement to move forward with him as our head coach,” the Haslams said. “Our focus is on hiring an exceptional leader for this football team and we will take a comprehensive approach to this process. We are excited about the core players we have to build around and develop and we look forward to bringing in a strong head coach that will put this group of players in the best position to succeed.”
John Dorsey (Dec 2019):
"While John helped greatly improve our team's talent and we are excited about the core players on our roster, we fully recognized that our team did not meet its potential on or off the field and additional changes in leadership give us the best opportunity for success in the future," Haslam said in the statement. "As the role of the general manager continues to evolve in this league, we felt there were areas that needed to be reassessed. Over the last 48 hours, we've had discussion with John about his role but could not come to an agreement on a position that would enable him to remain with the organization."

The show rolls on!

Who wants to lay odds they hire the coach before the GM? Or even better, hire a coach with a figurehead/ lame duck GM who doesn’t have real power over the coach who pushes his own personnel moves? Why? Because we never learn. Dysfunction breeds dysfunction. It’s not going to end by itself. I have zero faith in the Haslams. Of course everyone who comes here wants all the power. They also have no faith that the people who are here are remotely competent.

2019 Draft:

Greedy Williams
Sione Takitaki
Sheldrick Redwine
Mack Wilson
Austin Seibert
Drew Forbes
Donnie Lewis Jr.

2019 Trades:

March 13, 2019: Traded Kevin Zeitler to Giants for Olivier Vernon
March 13, 2019: Traded Jabrill Peppers, 2019 1st round pick (17th overall, Dexter Lawrence) and 2019 3rd round pick (95th overall, Oshane Ximines) to Giants for Odell Beckham Jr.
April 2, 2019: Traded Emmanuel Ogbah to Chiefs for Eric Murray
April 26, 2019: Traded 2019 2nd round pick (49th overall, Ben Banogu) and 2019 5th round pick (144th overall, Marvell Tell) to Colts for 2019 2nd round pick (46th overall, Greedy Williams)
August 8, 2019: Traded Duke Johnson to Texans for a conditional 2020 pick (3rd or 4th-round pick)
August 29, 2019: Traded a 2020 5th round pick and a 2020 6th round pick to Bills for Wyatt Teller and a 2021 7th round pick
August 30, 2019: Traded David Blough and a conditional 2022 pick (7th-round pick) to Lions for a conditional 2022 pick (7th-round pick)
August 31, 2019: Traded a conditional 2020 pick (7th-round pick) to Packers for Jordan McCray and a conditional 2020 pick (7th-round pick)
August 31, 2019: Traded a 2020 7th round pick to Titans for Taywan Taylor
October 15, 2019: Traded Austin Corbett to Rams for a 2021 5th round pick
October 28, 2019: Traded Genard Avery to Eagles for a 2021 4th round pick

2018 Players Added:

Odell Beckham Jr.
Garrett Gilbert
Demetrius Harris
Kareem Hunt
D'Ernest Johnson
Eric Kush
Kendall Lamm
Justin McCray
Eric Murray
Sheldon Richardson
Adarius Taylor
Taywan Taylor
Wyatt Teller
Olivier Vernon

Notable Undrafted Free Agents:

David Blough
Stephen Carlson
Jamie Gillan

Notable Cuts:

Jamie Collins
Britton Colquitt
Darren Fells

All the front office structures work if you have the right people and you win. Unfortunately, as you stated, the Haslams own the team.

Reminds me of the Butch Davis/Pete Garcia days.

This has all the potential to be devastating depending upon whom they hire

In a different thread I showed that the coach picking the GM can work. It just depends on if they are on the same page. It's hard to be on the same page when the Haslams are your boss.

I look for ( hope for ) it to be Elliot Wolf and Mike McCarthy

Here's the deal folks..it doesn't matter who the GM is because Jimmy is going to briefed by Mr Moneyballs, every day.

Depodesta has created conflict within the Browns management ever since he was hired.

Depodesta is a big part of what is wrong with the Browns management.

As long as Haslam believes the crap that Depodesta talks, we can figure on another internal conflict with Depodesta in the middle of it.

Just look at Depodesta's record...

Please, enlighten us on how and when depo has been wrong and what "crap" he has spread.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

And I'm not saying this assuming the recent firing leads to DePo being in more control but you're being stupid.

I'd think if he was the scoundrel your saying he is he'd be moving here so he could REALLY be in the mix every day.

So we finally get a GM that brings in some real talent and we fire him after two years. Great job. Now, lets get a guy like Farmer or one of the other failed GM's in here, tear it all down to the studs and go into rebuild mode for the next 10 years. Genius. Dorsey was the best GM we've had since before the move. The Browns will now have to be completely rebuilt in the new guy's image and with Haslam wanting more power he might as well just name himself GM. The Browns will NEVER be a quality team. They will continue to suck year after year.

We fired the guy that made our roster relevant, talent-wise. That sucks. People who want to hold his feet to the fire for the Corbett pick and bringing in OBJ while pining for Sashi have got to be trolling.

We also fired the guy that made Kitchens a head coach. Raised an eyebrow at the time, and got exponentially worse each minute.

Ultimately, it was his hire of Freddie that made him vulnerable, and then his inability to accept a role less than FO god led to his ousting.

We are going to have a VERY hard time replacing his ability to bring in talent. I hope our HC hire and FO org makes up for it. I'm highly skeptical.

This is the other half...

New GM and new hc and coordinators mean roster turnover. Get ready for another rebuild.

No..you guys tell me what he does to build the team into a winner?

Bring in Mcdaniels,shift to a 3-4.That way we can rid ourselves of all 4 high priced D-linemen.
We are going to suck anyway,might as well get some cap savings.

Isn't what makes the job attractive that we already have a bunch of talent?

Just trade everyone for future 6th round picks.

Why not? It's probably going to happen anyway.

I say he isnt that relevant at all. He wanted Stefanski (probably some equation showed him) and got beat out by Dorsey and Freddie. I'd bet Stefanski would be here still and we'd have a game to watch this weekend or next. Other than that his profile seems so low I couldn't tell you what he's said or done to the positive or negative. I've never heard him tout himself say... like used Lombardi to.

I don't think your boogeyman is very scary at all but rather boring.

Not going to lie, this surprised me...Did not see this coming.

Thought Dorsey had at bare minimum one more year...

While not elite by any means, he did add a lot of talent to this team (admittingly he had a huge surplus of draft picks and cap) But for many years I've been wanting us to buy a team and acquire actual talent. For some reason, seems like a lot of the players he paid out, never really played out though...Then again this issue has haunted our team since our return.

I'll never forget the night we acquired OBJ....I have never seen this board so happy EVER, ditto with the old board as well.


I hope we are getting a really good experienced HC and or GM, and that's the reason Dorsey was let go....NOW if we turn Depo into our GM, and hire a first time HC....None of this will make sense, well at least to me...


I'm just hoping this is not anoter tear down rebuild....Lord knows we have endured enough of that.

I don't drink...and don't drink on New Years...I may grab something after this news today.

The 3-4 has never worked for us

The 4-3 was just starting to work very well under Gregg Williams, but then we change coaches. So it wouldn't surpsie me at all to see them make that switch, especially after we lose Schoebert in free agency and have nobody left at linebacker. It will make no sense at all, so that's surely what the orginization will turn to.

You know better,that's just BS for the talking heads and message boards.
The only thing that makes this job attractive,is that it is one of only 32 available.
oh and the fans,we'll hear how the long suffering fans deserve better,and blah,blah,blah.
If a fan has continually throw money at this abortion for the past 20 years,then that fan is getting exactly what he deserves.

Everytime team in the NFL plays multiple defensive fronts. Base defense is no longer a thing.

No coach in their right mind would gut this thing floor to ceiling nor do they need to.
We absolutely have plenty of scrap that need to go though! The current roster will be a very hot topic during the interviews.
Paid too high a price to get what little we have as it is.

This right here folks. Dorsey had the opportunity to stay and continue to bring talent here. He chose to leave instead of having to stay in his lane. Realistically what can he or anyone else have expected? I'm not even counting player acquisitions/releases because its easy to judge hindsight. The fact that he pushed hard for Freddie against what DePo presented and the end result alone justifies Dorsey having to be reigned in a bit. Add to it, Jimmy probably felt pretty stupid for trusting Dorsey and ignoring DePo.

That spells it out.

Can't add to that. Like a boat without a rudder. A car without a steering wheel.

No end in sight.

Haslam is an idiot. He needs to give someone more than 1-2 years to fix this mess. Cleaning house every year hasn't worked for the last 20 years.

Here we go into another rebuild. I hope the stadium is empty next year.

The circle of life is complete

Where Colin was right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A) Addiction.
B) You love pain with your drama.
C) You are paying off massive karma!
D) You are a fan.

Just guessing. Maybe E), all of the above?

I suspected this would be next. Not crazy about it.

We need a coach. Not bunch of Haslams man-spraining while they carry on about her new unit which she won't talk about. Not sure these two get Cleveland.

I in no way am willing to use the term "rebuild". Not with 1/2 (or a tad less) the personnel currently on The roster. Total overreaction at this point.

Why would we rebuild? If anything we'd be getting back on track to where we were heading before we got side tracked with Freddie being named HC. We're no longer in (re)building mode.

The Haslams record of firing people is great, it's their record of hiring people that needs to be examined.

Joe Banner - Never worked in a permanent capacity for another team
Mike Lombardi - Worked with the Patriots while still under contract for the Browns, now a writer for The Athletic
Rob Chudzinski - Was the Colts offensive coordinator for three years, was fired, and has been out of football for two years (please let me know if he is coaching somewhere)
Ray Farmer - Out of football
Mike Pettine - Packers defensive coordinator
Sashi Brown - Currently works in a different sports league
Hue Jackson - No one will touch him

I love the despair invoked by so many fans...lol
Like 6-10 was nothing to be PO'd about but now its the end of the earth...lol

Dorsey did a good job but then again who couldn't with the Cap we had, Draft picks we had.

Not a reason to be fired but he missed so so bad on the only OLman he took of note.

He was not perfect, he was the best we had seen.

Obviously we have been talking to people who want full control.

Is it McDaniels who wishes to be a carbon copy of BB??? He has HC experience he was suppose to be great then and bombed.

Don't forget who is close friends and a confidant of Haslam...none other than the great Urban Myer?

Anyone think Urban as the Csar/GM and Lincoln Kennedy as his HC?

I think something is up and we got to get the Minority Interviews over and then go with the plan being cooked up.

Hey I'm up for anything as long as it is forEVER and not one season.

Just a word of advice...STOP WITH THE CHICKEN LITTLE - THE SKY IS FALLING fan mentality. Lets see what happens.. It cannot be anything but good we got a wealth of talent (Garrett better be coming back from game one next season and have a chip on his shoulder)

We still have the best RB in Football and the best 2nd RB in football. Along with a great young franchise QB and a WR corp that is top in the NFL regardless of the LOW FANTASY POINTS of 2019. OBJ sucked and still had 1,000 yards - how many WRs did we have who had 1,000 yards and I think we had 2 WR accomplish that this season.

We need to go heavy into OL.

We need a playbook that will spread things not keep them in tight....if I see another Bunch tight WRs as if they were a bunch of OLmen I will shoot myself. We need to not bunch things up but instead...SPREAD Them out. Vertical and Horizontal.

So I'm saying we got Urban and Lincoln...you heard it here first.

Now hit me with the usual insults for thinking out of the box...lol

We got to do something GREAT for a change!
jmho

I hate taking a college HC but those 2 could be ok I hope we go with a veteran HC (McCarthy) who has been through the NFL wars and won ...

I feel like the only thing that will make this okay is if we move Elliot Wolf to the GM role and bring in McCarthy. We'll at least have a GM with pedigree and training and a head coach with vast amounts of experience. Anything else will just be the usual shooting in the dark that we normally do.

According to you,every hire the Browns have made has been great.
I hope you'll pardon me if my displeasure and well placed skepticism is showing.

Perhaps those guys would have succeeded somewhere where the toilet paper isn't monogrammed "JH".

A new GM will come in and want his own players. Happens every time.

I don't understand this whole "dorsey did a great job with the assets he was given" He would have had to try to be worse. Two drafts and we have 3 viable starters... thats 17 picks and only hit on 3 starters and guys that didn't even last a year and the rest marginal depth or practice squad quality...gives the worst RT in football 4 years and 36 million dollars. Gave TJ carrie, with a PFF rating of 56 on the year 31 million dollars. Thats right, based on PFF rankings, TJ qualifies as fodder, and getting 31 million. Pissed away a 3rd rounder for basically 2 games of Tyrod, Traded two picks for Teller who was a cluster at RG and rated 56 on the year... trust me...all this adds up when you look at how much he was given to work with. the FK deal was just the proverbial straw. My guess is Depodesta's board the last two years yielded better players and Haslam wanted Dorsey to trust the analytics more, he refused like pretty much any scout would do and thats why hes no longer the gm

Because the man that brought in all this talent is now gone. New GM's always want THEIR guys so you can count on a lot of turnover. Also, how do you know the next GM knows how to draft? Our previous GM's usre as heck didn't. We could get another Farmer that completely blows 4 first round picks. But yeah, it's awesome that we just fired the ONLY GM since the return that knew what the hell he was doing. Can't have that in Cleveland. Nope, have to run guys like that out of town fast. Here's hoping Haslam hires another Farmer and he blows the whole thing up. That's what we all deserve for being stupid enough to follow this train wreck of a team. I am done. Firing Dorsey is the dumbest move yet out of Haslam. If he's so smart he should just name himself GM.

You keep buying the same old BS, over and over and over again. After 20 years of that BS, some of us are sick of hearing it.

People keep saying there won't be a huge roster turnover when it's happened over and over again ever since 1999. It's like they're getting ready to watch a rerun they've seen several times and claim that this time the ending will be different.

The Browns are Wile E Coyote, and Success is the Roadrunner.

It's almost a certainty that there will be a lot of roster turnover. That doesn't mean the team can't compete right away.

Why would you assume Dorsey knew what he was doing?

Like I said, watching the same rerun and expecting different results.

Doresy did a great job but it is great now that he's gone? Who could't do a great job with what he had? How about every other GM we've had since the return. THEY couldn't get talent. Not one of them could draft worth spit. Dorsey was the ONLY real GM we have had since the return and in TWO YEARS he got us more talent than any of the other bums did. So woo hoo he's now gone and of course, you support that because Haslam can do no wrong. Well, when the new guy comes in a blows it all up and we draft like idiots again and again remember you are happy about it.

He will love them until they're fired.

Great job? Dorsey didn't even do a good job. He was borderline awful.

Did he pick a coach who could win, or just a coach who would not talk back to him ?

eo - The eternal optimist!

Yeah, it was the Mayfield pick that did him in.

You would think a guy who drafted his God at QB would get favorable reviews wouldn't you?

I know it will never happen because the Cleveland media that cover the Browns don't possess the nerve.

But I would love for someone to read Haslams comments from those hirings/firings back to him at this presser.

Grossi would do it but they would never give him the platform.

Mary K and the rest will ask their softball questions and nod to Jimmy. Man, I would love the platform to ask him some dagger questions that he would be squirming in his seat from.


Inherited rich snob with his NFL toy team.

I'll admit the Browns have more talent than they've had in a long time but it is still not where it needs to be.
Both Pittsburg and Baltimore have a lot better defenses and olines than we do.
Our QB ranked 31st in the league while Baltimores is the league MVP, Pittsburgh will get Ben back next year and the Bengals will have Burrows.
Our TEs are the worst in the division.
Our WRs are nothing special after Landry. OBJ needs gone.
Our RBs are the best pair in the division and the strength of our team.
I honestly think Dorsey won't be missed. He also hired Kitchens when Gregg Williams should have got the job. At least we had discipline and played hard when Williams was here.
I reaaly think our next coach will be either McCarthy and Elliot stays or McDaniels.

The trades, the poor pick of Baker, the poor pick of Freddie ... those alone are fireable offenses

I keep hearing this, but exactly what talent? While I'm not a fan of letting Dorsey go ... as others have pointed out: what we thought we had talent wise in August, isn't exactly what has panned out now. A lot of that could probably be blamed on Freddie misusing the talent given to him, but it was Dorsey specifically that pushed for that hire, and then was pretty steadfast about retaining him as coach.

Everyone gives credit to Dorsey because of how last year's draft class panned out. This year, those same picks went completely backwards:

Baker: Near Rookie of the Year -> One of the worst rated starters in the league.
Ward: Pro-Bowl Corner -> Barely on the field
Corbett: Guard of the Future -> Gone
Chubb: Awesome -> Stayed awesome
Chad Thomas: Potential DE depth -> Gone
Calloway: Dangerous 3rd WR -> Gone
Avery: Great passing down rusher -> Gone

Most of the picks, trades and signings he made didn't really amount to much, and he had a LOT of capital to work with.

The comments about OBJ crack me up. The guy played with a groin pull the entire season and still cracked 1000 yards. Yes his antics are a distraction but to claim a guy who toughed it out and played injured all season is a bad player makes people look foolish.

It could be .. as it stands right now .. Charley Frye played as well as Mayfield did this year .. and Frye did it without the talent around him.

Baker was the right pick. He could not flourish with these coaches. The coaches were the wrong pick.

So we will get to try again, with Baker, and hopefully with the right coaches this time.

The question becomes, if you can’t find the talent with the football, does it really exist?

Little insight here.
Baker Mayfield is young. But he regressed In 2019. He's not a lock to be a franchise QB going foward.
He was the 32nd ranked QB out of 32.
Did you watch the Bengals game. ?
Does that look like a franchise QB. ?
Franchise QBS don't trade words with beer vendors
They do their talking with results on the field

Baker played hurt most the season as well and is the first Browns QB to put up consecutive 3500+ passing yard seasons in a long time, but that doesn't stop people from complaining about his antics.

All this team needed was a new coach,DC,OC. Dorsey was a great GM. He blew on Freddy but everybody makes a mistake once in a while.

One of the rules that the Browns employ thanks to analytics...the Browns do not want to pay to add depth to the roster.

The GM and coach are limited to picking up cheap free agents..preferably those who were not drafted..thus the cheapest option.

You obviously weren't paying attention. I stated plainly that OBJ's antics were a distraction as well. I said people who say he's a bad player look foolish.

I don't like the antics of OBJ or Baker. The only difference is that OBJ has proven himself in the NFL and Baker hasn't.

Having 22 TD's and 21 int's and being rated 31st in the league kind of makes that 3500 yards look a little selective.

I think part of it was the insistence on keeping Freddie. I get the "everyone makes mistakes part", but when you try to double-down on that mistake while he's busy making you look incompetent in the process ...

That may be. We have no idea what was going on behind closed doors.

Well, Atleast Dorsey drafted the worst rated QB in the league. At least we got that going for us.

Two QBs in the same draft class have now led their teams to the playoffs. Another one finished with a better record than us, despite having the cooties for a month.

If Flores plan was to save Rosen until next season with a new O line and other talent, then we could easily see Rosen outplaying mayfield next season.

Sad.

Thanks for not stopping the carnival Jimmy...

I think it comes down to this: we need a great coach, and with Dorsey in the house and insisting on control, our options were extremely limited. He had to either go or accept a reduced role, or else we were going to be begging unknowns to be our coach. He is a prideful guy.
This had to happen and is not the Haslams’ fault, IMO. Now we can pick from our wish list. For me, it is McCarthy. I like some of the other names, too.

What great talent did Dorsey bring in? Most of his FAs have been major disappointments.

Last Draft:
Baker - Questionable at best. Major concerns
Ward - injury prone, and wasn't nearly as good this year.
Corbett - Awful, and gone
Chubb - excellent pick
Thomas - seems to be improving, decent pick
Callaway - gone
Ratley - seems like a decent pick given the round

This draft:
Greedy - decent but not great so far
Wilson - decent
Takitaki - barely played
Redwine - seemed lost, can't tackle
Seibert - good kicker, still some concerns, but a 5th rounder?
Forbes and Lewis? No clue

OBJ is gonna be fine, but his attitude needs checked. Vernon was a huge disappointment. Randall was a good trade, but his attitude sucks and he's gone.

Again, what "great" talent? There hasn't been a GM in history set up like he was and he still doesn't have great results.

I do believe that we are looking at a partial rebuild. We have some holes that a Band-aid won't fix...

The Browns have received permission to speak with Commodore
Sixtyfour.
Sixtyfour has years of experience in the Harvard Statistics Department.
The Commodore is expected to use his experience to assist new Browns GM Chuck Darts select draft targets.

What the ...? Analytics again? Groundhog day 2.0

Denzel Ward had the lowest passer rating in the league when a QB threw his way. He is the least of our worries.

I am not denying that OBJ has talent. I do not like all the other stuff that comes with him. He is a me player that loves attention. Always something going on with OBJ. It seemed like Baker and Freddie spent too much time trying to get him the ball and it hurt the offense. Plus I bet he led the team in drops.
He felt rules did not apply to him. The visor, shoes, watch, pants.
Freddie was always down playing these things.
The OBJ trade should never have been made IMO.
Its hard to have team discipline with players who think they can do whatever they please.
I would rather of had our receivers from 2018 Landry, Higgins, Perriman. Baker would spread the ball around to 7 or 8 different players not just focus on 1 or 2.

I'm fine with OBJ.

For a "Diva All About Me" he was fine this year.

Sure, he had a few minor things.

But he wasn't a distraction other than for the haters who need someone to hate.

Would you prefer he act like AB?

I'd guess not.

OBJ kept it in check even when the media was hell bent on causing drama with him.

So I give him props for keeping it on track.

Here we go

https://twitter.com/camfromcanada3/status/1212100801490874368

https://twitter.com/DreKnott/status/1212150160731582465

https://twitter.com/CALLME_WOOD/status/1212160485216395265

OBJ loves drama. Hope the next GM sends him packing. As for being a distraction, I'd say he was.

Who is that guy? He's got 11 followers.

Random guy with tinfoil hat? Does he post on Dawgtalkers? haha

Doesn't matter, it's on the internet, it must be true.

Can't wait to hear these stories... Hopefully it's after any new head coach signs the dotted line.. lol

I wish it were that easy. They just might get the next 15 FO and coach hires wrong. What's going to stop them?

Who exactly is going to "force them" to sell the team? Fans? Pffft - that's laughable.

Mac, I am sure you are correct , but where can I find these browns rules. I want to see what other handicaps we face in singing players.

Tornado Baker has left quite a bit of collateral damage.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

The Haslam's will run this franchise into the ground just fine on their own. It has nothing to do with DePodesta.

The shiniest turd in the punch bowl is still a turd.

Unless he improves a TON, Baker....isn't the guy.

Context is a thing.

Yep - and not only that, as I said about a month ago, as soon as Cincy drafts Joe Burrow, we're back to having the absolute worst starting QB in the division....again.

It's amazing you can know a 1 year starter in college would suddenly be better than Baker. That, and I think Ben is done. I highly doubt he comes back at his age from major elbow problems.

Why does that not surprise me about Lord Dorsey one bit? He's as bad as Art Howe was portrayed in Moneyball - except worse.

Nobody says you can/should rely on data analytics solely. Nor should you rely on a single person/scouts evaluations. But to have the arrogance to throw that amount of work in the trash in front of everyone (if true) - I'd have fired his ass (Dorsey) on the spot.

What a complete tool.

Also - for those of you who hate analytics, welcome to the 21st century.

Everybody said Freddie was in over his head, and he was, but I also think The Haslams are in over their heads, as well. I don't think they know what to do and I certainly don't trust them to pick anybody or stick with anybody who might know what they're doing. It sure as hell won't be baseball "genius" DePodesta. Plus, I'm so f'n tired of hearing about analyitcs.

Dorsey brought more talent to this team in a short period of time than it's had in years. Sure, some decisions were not good, trading Zeitler was bad, but not every decision can or will be perfect. Jimmy Haslam now will likely be the reason this team falls back to 0-16 again, cause when he fails to get it right, the good talent we do have will all go bye-bye. If winning cures all, not winning kills all.

So, I don't guess you want to buy my Baker jerseys?

Basically what I said earlier. Dorsey is a scout not a GM, a good gm would atleast consider the data and see if he can use it... a scout believes he knows by seeing. Seems to be a common theme with Dorsey wherever he goes, if he's scouting he's happy, but he's not GM material. He doesn't play well with others and thats the last thing you need in a GM...good riddance

I see this bozo's up to 26 followers now.

Well said ... his people and analytical skills were obviously not good

Bingo. It's why his moniker of Lord Dorsey rings truer today than ever.

Everyone needs to stop quoting this one. The guy has 11 followers, and just tagged a bunch of reputable people. He's making stuff up.

Most of them are probably from Dawgtalkers. Because someone needs to fulfill their delusions.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12...nd-blew-it.html

Because this writer is so unbiased?

The bottom of the page told me all I need to know:

Like what you’re reading? You want more? Subscribe to Football Insider for exclusive Browns content, including daily texts from Mary Kay Cabot and cleveland.com's entire coverage team. Register quickly below using your phone number.


Cleveland Media are trolls. They are half the reason I hate Cleveland sports.

I agree. 'Cam From Canada' is disgruntled former (daily) caller to Cleveland Browns Daily and has been incensed ever since they quit taking his calls. If I recall, he lives in Vancouver and is nothing more than a fan. He tried for awhile calling into WKNR attempting to be someone "plugged in"to the team until he was blown off by them as well.

He's a clown.

*This isn't me defending moves made by Dorsey either.

Outside of the Tweets from guys with a handful of followers ... the picture being painted is one of two guys with some awfully big egos that based on a success streak of only 8 games last year, couldn't swallow their pride and do what's best for the team.

After last season's 8 game success, Freddie didn't want to maintain continuity from existing staff and brought in many of "his" guys, despite the success he had achieved with the previous staff. He then went on to refuse giving up play-calling duties, even after it was painfully obvious that he had no business calling plays. Game after game, we'd look respectable running down the field using the scripted plays that Monken helped setup, and then looked lost when Freddie went on his own. He kept trying to force they same formations, plays, tricks, etc all season long without much success. Teams would claim they knew exactly what we were running each play. But Freddie never bothered to pass the play-calling on to someone else, or try something different. He stubbornly, stuck to what his ego wanted to do, likely because he had a few games of success last season.

At the end of last season, Dorsey looked like a godsend when his draft class had panned out multiple starters, and potentially the top QB of a deep class. Based on that success, he then overruled everyone else in the front office to get "his guy", and then allowed him to blow up the existing coaching staff despite the previous success. As this season went along, and all those "great draft picks" that he had from last season started to look more and more pedestrian, he refused to admit his mistake in hiring Freddie. Instead of swallowing his pride, he insisted to Haslam that we keep him for another year, despite the team basically quitting on him.

Interestingly, Baker seemed to have the same mindset last off-season as well. "I did awesome the last 8 games ... I can do no wrong this year." It could be the reason there was such a culture problem this year. Leadership was setting a bad example.

Granted, I'm basing this on a lot of semi-reputable Twitter reports, but if this is correct, I'm somewhat glad we are rid of the egos. If we can bring a guy in like McCarthy who swallowed his pride, and took an entire season off to make himself a better coach, then I'd love to have that kind of culture on the team. I'm hoping we keep most of the remaining Front Office intact, and the reason why we ousted Dorsey is because he ignored the inputs of the others there. We can then hopefully build a structure with humility and everyone working together. I'm tired of heading stories of guys pulling rank and making moves against the consensus because they thought the knew better.

Did anyone read that blurb on nfl rotoworld about Monken going up to the opposite teams coaches prior to games and telling them how much of a mess it is here. Guess he was stating Freddie was using none of the plays that he (Monken) was working with the team throughout the week with...Man, what a disaster.

Ahhh... Was waiting for the "it's all Baker's fault" response. You never disappoint Rish!

That was obvious to me when watching the games. This only confirms what I saw.

Once Freddie went off of the scripted plays, this team failed to find a rythm, week in and week out.

So glad Dorsey got fired.now I don't have to hear
The CBD host Zagura and Bishop keep on saying
" the Full Dorse" everytime they gushed over him
And Kitchens

Makes you wonder what a disaster this whole team was assembled with...We got rid of the dysfunction with Hue and Haley...and went right back to dysfunction with Freddie/Monken...this team is clueless on creating an inviting environment.

Is Monken still employed by the Browns?

Someone needs to test the water in Berea. I used to say it as a joke, but I'm not so sure I should be joking about it any more.

Someone needs to do an historical search on the plat the is 76 Groza. Is it a node for negative energy? Is it an ancient burial site?

The only thing that functions like clockwork in CLE is dysfunction.

______________________


Back when I discovered the old board, it felt like this online representation of the Browns fan base was the coolest thing that ever happened to my fandom. Here we are, 20 years later... and we're the same folks having the exact same conversations in December and January. The only things that have changed are the number of creases in our faces and our natural hair color. We can't even reminisce about that 3-4 year period when everything was positive and hopeful.

The exact same conversations. About the exact same problems. 20 years later.

I'm so over this.

I recommend to go to Reddit sometimes for a sanity check.

Much like politics, this board tends towards extremism.

Reddit tends towards more moderate sensible opinions.

I don't think he was fired. He lost luster, was told so, and he and the ownership agreed to a separation. I think could have stayed had he agreed.


Who thinks we could have allowed that guy to pick the next coach? Raise your hands now.


Not me.

I have said multiple times in this very board that we need people running the team that are going to put the Browns first...put the Browns before themselves.

I did that just for you and magee88.

Hey listen, I've been saying since week 6 or so that this organization is rotten from the top down and that there were a bunch of people in the building that put themselves before the Browns. I even called Dorsey wanting to "win" against Depo instead of getting the best coach. All of it is playing out.

The only thing that will prevent my calls on Baker playing out is Baker.

Baker, you currently suck at playing QB. What are you going to do about it?

That’s true ... the whole Dorsey thing was getting old

In the midst of Firing Fatigue, what comes next for Cleveland Browns after John Dorsey’s departure?

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12...and-browns.html

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio — I’ll just say it: I would not have fired John Dorsey as general manager of the Cleveland Browns.

Dorsey made some major mistakes, especially hiring Freddie Kitchens as head coach. When Dorsey looks back at his 24 months in Cleveland, that should be his biggest regret.

We can talk about his trades, his draft picks, things that worked and things that failed.

But it was Kitchens that sunk Dorsey. It led to the ownership’s decision to ask him to take a lesser role with the front office. Dorsey didn’t believe that was fair.

There’s no reason to debate the decision. It’s done.

These are the Browns, where no top football executive has survived more than Dorsey’s 25 months since the Haslam family bought the team in 2012.

When the team has a tough season, people get fired. Or they have a “mutual parting,” as was the case with Dorsey and the Browns on the final day of 2019.

ANOTHER REBOOT

This move signals another change in how Dee and Jimmy Haslam want to run the team.

I’m told they want to do something like what happened in San Francisco, where John Lynch was hired as GM on January 30, 2017. A week later, Kyle Shanahan was named head coach.

But the two had discussed working together for a while before their new jobs were announced.

It was a risky move. A former player, Lynch had never worked in an NFL front office before. Shanahan had never been a head coach. Shanahan basically picked Lynch to be his boss.

But it paid off, as the 49ers completed a trade for QB Jimmy Garoppolo in 2017 and they had a 13-3 record this season.

I’m told the Browns want to avoid an arranged marriage such as the one they had with GM Ray Farmer and coach Mike Pettine. Nor do they want a situation where there is a front-office split about who should be the head coach, such the debate over Hue Jackson vs. Sean McDermott in 2017 and Kevin Stefanski vs. Kitchens in 2019.

Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta will be involved in the hiring process. He favored McDermott and Stefanski in the coaching debates.

But I’m told DePodesta will not be head of football operations.

The Browns plan to hire a GM and they want him tied to the coach.

My sense is the coach will have a strong say in picking the GM, much like Shanahan did with the 49ers.

NOW WHAT?

The new rumor is New England offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels becomes the head coach, and he brings in an executive such as John Carroll grads Nick Caserio or Dave Zeigler, both working for the Patriots.

The other name being mentioned is Scott Pioli, a former New England, Kansas City and Atlanta executive. Pioli worked for the Browns in the early 1990s. He resigned as Atlanta’s assistant GM in the spring, so he’s available right now.

I’m told the Browns are interested in McDaniels. But they are not wedded to the idea that he must be the coach.

Of course, you hear a lot of things.

The Browns are intrigued by the 49ers’ operation. San Francisco defensive coordinator Robert Saleh also is a candidate for head coach.

But McDaniels as coach with the hiring of someone he knows sounds like the 49ers’ model with Shanahan and Lynch.

THIS IS HARD

It’s always easier to fire someone believed to be the “wrong guy” for the job than finding the right replacement.

That’s especially true if the owners are known for being impatient. It leads coaches and GMs to make moves to win now. Dorsey did some of that in his trades with the Giants (Olivier Vernon, Odell Beckham Jr.) and signing veteran free agents.

The Browns have tried the strong CEO/GM type with Joe Banner (2012-14) and Dorsey. They tried analytics/total rebuild with Sashi Brown (2016-17). There was the arranged marriage of Farmer and Pettine (2014-15).

The Haslams have never stuck with much of anything for very long.

I confess to having Firing Fatigue as I write this story.

But most of all, I feel for the fans who have to endure this, decade-after-decade. I don’t even know what to say to them, other than they are the ones who have really paid the emotional price for the mistakes of ownership since the team returned in 1999.

j/c:

But wait, we were told Sashi was doing all the talent evaluation!

This guy is the X factor for me. Haslam seems to love him. Football people seem to be high in him. I dont see what any of the candidates have in common with him. (history wise) When I consider he could be the GM then my mind goes to Stefanski who I believe would be the one guy to work with nearly anyone.

I'm very interested in the possibility of an Andrew Berry return. I agree...I believe he is highly respected in the NFL, his role here was so underrated by people on this board, and believes in analytics.

There was a follow up tweet from P. Smith saying he and DePodesta worked extremely well together so take that for what it is worth.

Well then,he also would have been part of the group that drafted Corey Coleman.

True. But those posters were living in some alternate universe...

He was. He was also part of the group that selected Garrett & Schobert and accumulated several additional 1st and 2nd round picks to rebuild the team.

....where Hue Jackson would still be the coach because all of his failures were due to not having better players.

Andrew Berry was most likely part of the "general manager" position since we technically didn't have one when Sashi was here.

Sashi got a lot of stink for "having final say" on the roster, although when you work with a bunch of selfless guys with the same goal and mindset it doesn't really matter, does it?

Why did we even hire Dorsey again?

Because Haslam was told he needed a football guy. I'm not sure Haslam doesn't seek and listen to soooooo many opinions that he gets mired in the decision process.

I'd welcome Berry back with open arms. I always thought he was a sharp guy.

That's what I have been trying to get across to a few people, Sashi was GM in name only. He left the Coaches do their job and he left the Scouting department do their job and he only stepped in when there was a dispute between the two on a player. All the QBs we drafted before Baker were done by the scouting department with Hue's approval.

You see what you want to see.

According to me I have ABSOLUTELY NO SAY IN THE HIRES...so after we do make the hire I try to see the upside as why not. If you wish to claim that I have no clue because I am just acting the way I THINK A FAN SHOULD ACT...so be it.

But don't define me...I will tell you who and what I am.

I began my first days as a Browns fan picking apart what we did. But in my eyes thought that was too easy...why not see the positives and go with it as there was/is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I can do about it. So you can have displeasure with the organization go right ahead but in the same turn give me my rights to be positive about our hire. Ya think I really enjoy our direction and our reboot... smh

I'm not certain on the Hue approval part.

Haslam's favorite...Depodesta.

Depodesta wanted more power in the front office and Haslam handed to him at Dorsey's expense. Depodesta had to know such a move might force Dorsey out...his plan worked to perfection.

Personally, I'm fine with Schobert testing FA. I think he is a solid LB, but he still has me yearning for more. The entire Baltimore game, I'm waiting for Schow to step up and make it a Lamar vs. Schow story, but never got that. You think of the greats like Urlacher, Ray Lewis, Seau... Other guys like Kuechly, Patrick Willis.. Bruschi... They were a QB's arch nemesis... Joe has not shown he can be that.

He gets the tackles.. and he has made plays.. I just don't think he's worth any big money.

Good because Joe is the leader of the D and David has talent that we need to keep. Both have the potential of getting better. It seems to me that while initially John Dorsey was a good hire and made a lot of positive moves in his 1st year his moves and judgement weren't as good in the past year. Maybe the power went to his head maybe it was ego but something was wrong with his decision making in the 2nd year.

Yeah I couldn't understand letting a probowl MLB walk... and Njoku was a big future of our Offense and then he and Higgins disappeared.

I happen to liked Daboll...he was inventive that look that HUE took credit for actually was Daboll's formation where he had the OTs spread out wide and the one time we used he had a TD with McCoy throwing a TD to Royal...google it

Also he did a great job with rookie McCoy...we actually beat the Pats with him at QB and I remember another big win with him at QB that year.

But I saw many formations one was the Jett motion before anyone else was utilizing it as a weapon. I thought he had a good mind for football in general and a good QB coach!

jmho

Or... Haslam said it knowing it would drive Dorsey out allowing him to NOT look like a doofus with another firing.

I cant connect a guy who doesn't even care to live in the state yet wanting full control over the FO in Ohio with Depodesta.

He's got it made!!! Fiddle with your slide rule or whatever, stay home AND get paid by the Haslams!

j/c

I've read several posts in this thread detailing the many failures of Dorsey...or apparent failures...from those who I would say are not-necessarily-upset-he's-gone. Lots of details on drafts and free agency spending.

On the other hand, all I'm reading from those who apparently are upset that he is gone is that "he brought in all this talent". Yet there are precious little details about who exactly represents "all this talent" (other than what I list below).

If all you have to prove your point of great talent acquisition is two, very-high 1st Rd picks (Mayfield & Ward), one very-high 2nd Rd pick (Chubb), a trade (Landry...not OBJ) and a chance (Hunt)...I'd say that level of "success" should be a given...not an accomplishment. Even allowing for an even-higher 2nd Rd bust of a pick (Corbett).

The Zeitler trade and Corbett talent evaluation is a particularly damning example of poor judgement. Yes...2nd Rd picks sometimes bust...that's not my issue...it's the combined bust pick with awful talent evaluation that maddeningly concluded that Corbett could play RG good-enough to trade a top 10 G in the league...with a 6' sophomore QB under center. That's ego folks...simple as that...coupled with a massive miss in talent eval.

Talent acquisition includes keeping and/or cultivating what you started with. In that regard, Zeitler/Corbett isn't the only booger on his shirt. Reiter is a very good C for the Chiefs...Dorsey cut him. Nassib is a Team Captain in Tampa Bay...Dorsey cut him. Perriman had another good year doing exactly what he did here in 2018...Dorsey released him. Fells was allowed to walk and was replaced with Harris (a Dorsey favorite who was just better than awful this year). Ogbah played well as a backup until he got hurt...we did get Murray in return and he "might" be as equally serviceable. Avery was traded for a 4th Rd pick in 2021...not 2020...2021...a pick Dorsey won't get to make.

I won't even get into the dismal OTs and the virtual-nothing behind Chubb until Hunt was active.

Going deeper on the draft. 3rd and 4th Rd picks should be promising players who contribute and hopefully develop...maybe even some 5th Rd guys. What did Dorsey accomplish there?

Chad Thomas - Might someday contribute as much as Ogbah;
Callaway - Worth a shot;
Avery - inexplicably traded for a pick after the next draft;
Takitaki - Who? Looks more like 5th Rd pick to me;
Redwine - I actually think he could work out eventually;
Wilson - At least a decent STer after we get some real football players in here at LB;
A kicker - ok.

I won't bag on any 6th or 7th Rders...shots in the dark. But none of the guys listed above appear to be anything even close to 'special'...the most 'special' guy in that group IMO was traded.

I am not happy that Dorsey is gone. I am rather indifferent. He did 'some' good but with such a great hand dealt to him it should have been much better...he did some bad drafting and cap squandering. We got worse at OL, TE, RB-until-game-10 and DL at a minimum. I won't bash or cheer the OBJ trade...not yet anyway.

I suppose others may see the overall talent acquisition as being better than I do...but I don't think I'll see a detailed breakdown supporting his work vs what you can see above.

Dorsey is going to have a hard time getting another NFL job.

I feel the same about Njoku, but opposite about Schobert.

I think Schobert's offseason (and maybe some others) will be a strong indicator whether we're headed for the dreaded rebuild or not. Schobert may not always blow your socks off with plays like the tip top LBs, but he's the leader of the D, and a glue guy that also makes lots of plays. He's also durable. Many of those attributes get deprioritized when you're about to blow up the roster.

I'm torn on Joe based on what he/we may think he's worth on his next deal...15 mil? No way. 7-8 mil...sure. If he's not re-signed it won't be because he isn't a priority as much as it'll be because the $$$ simply doesn't make sense.

No, he won't. He is in the "Good Ole' Boys Club".

#TheCocoon

If he had been watching, I bet he would have said the same thing about Drew Brees his first few seasons. That's what happens when people live in a Microwave society. If it doesn't happen in three minutes or less it isn't going to.

Instead we have Haslam picking the next coach. That's worse than Dorsey.

This is coming from the guy that made fun of posters for liking Baker Mayfield pre-draft

You know how this works Eve. Everybody swears that MKC sucks. Until of course she says something they want to hear. Then she's suddenly quotable and validated.

Except it wasn't MKC that wrote the article and your reaction is to an auto-generated sales piece at the bottom of an article on Cleveland.com.

Well done, both of you.

PitDawg didn't even look at the article. Derpity Derp.

I agree with you there Peen. I think the parting of the ways was mutual as well. While it's pure speculation on my part, I think Haslam decided that when it came to coaching decisions at the very least, Dorsey would no longer have full control. That would be a new part of the structure moving forward.

I simply don't think they could come to an agreement on what that new structure would be.

You were told he had the final say. He made the final decsions. He was in charge. And he sucked at it. He now works in the NBA and has no part of the decision making. The evidence speaks for itself no matter how much you are in denial of it. 1-31

I knew she didnt write it. She is not the only troll in Cleveland.

You guys really need to make up your minds. Either the coaches stunk and didn't know how to use the talent Dorsey brought in or poor Freddie didn't have the talent to win with. It seems you're confused as to which one it was.

Everybody who is anybody raved about the talent Dorsey assembled before the season started. So much so that those actual people who know the sport predicted we would do very well this past season. That wasn't by accident.

So since Freddie mucked that all up, you're trying to rewrite history by claiming it was a talent problem.

You can blame Dorsey for hiring Freddie, but the leap some people make about the lack of talent is pure BS.

How's that working out for you right now?

So far so good.

If not, it's another reason to justify firing Dorsey.

God knows if you can come up with a reach on anything you will.

And reaches are what you do best. Tell us again about Desmond Harrison and Hue Jackson.

Tell us about the roster that the entire sports world feels has an abundance of talent that you can't see.

The thing is, you don't know that. I think based on previous recommendations, Depo probably is. I think who he endorses will be the hire

We also have no way to know how any other coach would have fared here under Jimmy "You get a pink skip, and you get a pink slip" Haslem.

My determination on that will be swayed according to who they hire. If it ends up being McDaniels it will be due to the long time lust the Haslam's have for him, not DePodesta.

And possibly it could work out fine...

Who knows.

Yes, and the same man who wanted C. Thomas, so much so that we traded up to get him.

No thank you

J/c

In terms of Dorsey, IMO he didn’t deserve to be fired AS MUCH as Freddie did ... but I’m okay with him being axed too. I see a lot of people talking about talent acquisition, and he did acquire SOME talent ... but it wasn’t cut and dry IMO. OBJ has been mixed, our draft picks have been a mix, etc. His biggest indictment is his poor job with the OL and HC selection.

Good grief! I have to call BS to this Twitter... John Dorsey did not need Andrew Berry's opinion on whether or not to Draft Baker ... he already knew that he would.

Talk about stretching the truth to its very limits.

He is part an parcel to the failed FOs' of the recent past.

Lets not go digging up dead bones.

All I have to say is that if Haslam ran his business like he has run the Browns, he would be bankrupt.

He has proven himself unworthy of any sort of respect.

Since you use records to justify FO success so often:

6-10


And using media perception to justify a point is hilarious.

His truck stop business is a marketing business. All of the products he sells were created and built by other people. He simply has to make it more attractive to buy those products at his place of business.

Building an actual product to market is something he has no idea how to do. I mean "the fan experience" and new uniforms are marketing that has zero to do with building a winning product.

We are all witnesses.

j/c:

Yes, football experts across the country including former players, former HC's and former GM's means nothing. According to you....

Just because he named a HC that had no clue how to use that talent doesn't mean the talent isn't there.

The Freddie hire rests squarely on Dorsey's shoulders. The lack of talent BS you're spewing exists only in your mind.

From what I gather this type of move would stop a Josh McDaniels hire. He seems to want his own personnel. Not sure if that's just his GM or what.

He and McCarthy would make an excellent direction to travel.

This seems likely to me. It also seems to have more probability of success.
Obviously just presumption though on my part.

I'm not saying there is a definite lack of talent. Your making stuff up again. I question other sources saying so as they always do with teams every year. Because a news outlet says so, means very little to me. Very little. Just like your opinion on here.

There is talent. Both from the last regime and this recent one.

I question several moves by Dorsey, including trades and FA signings. The added capital that he took advantage of but barely delivered on. The evidence is there, you chose not to accept it.

There's a difference in "a source" and almost every former HC, GM and former player coming to the same conclusion.

You seem to think that you can base a GM on never making a mistake. They all make mistakes.

In case you missed it, your opinions don't mean anything to me either. Finally something we agree on.

Obviously not.

To help you see clearly. Kitchens was fired. He got a pink slip. I think both Haslam and Dorsey agreed on that.

Dorsey wasn't given a pink slip. I think Haslam let Dorsey know that he wasn't going to have final, total say on who the next coach was. Dorsey couldn't live with that, so they came to some sort of mutual agreement on exit terms.

You can look at it as Jimmy fired Dorsey. I look at it as Dorsey quit the team. The reality is it is something in the middle.

This is false. I happily pointed out the mistakes the last regime made, including players like Schwartz, Coleman, etc.

If you are going to engage in a reasonable debate, stop making up BS. We all see it everyday. Do better.

Please lay out "all this talent"...I already mentioned the (4) picks out of the first (36)a bust at 33...one trade...and one long-shot...decisions anyone with any sense could make (without the Landry trade perhaps).

What else you got Pit? Other than clueless talking heads who saw OBJ and a game-11 Hunt as the talent infusion. Lay it out there buddy boy...I'll wait here.

The lack of talent and the removal of talent is painfully obvious...we need (2) OTs, (2) TEs, a RG, a DT, at least one DE, (2) LBs, and at least (1) safety...at a minimum. (7) of those needs listed represent starters.

So...who exactly makes up "all this talent" that Dorsey brought in?

Maybe, maybe not. I am not sure, but I don't think McDaniels has been a serious candidate since Depo has been here. We didn't interview him last year did we?

I hope so. It would make the Dorsey departure much easier to swallow.

Dorsey brought in talent. What people don't want to accept is that a good chunk of it came from the moves of the last regime. You don't have guys like Ward, Chubb, Landry, etc., if not for the moves others made. Funny how the logic of the more draft picks you have the more liklihood you will get good players is lost to some (not you)

A bigger problem is the players Dorsey punted just because they weren't his guys and he tried (and subsequently failed) to take a shot at the last regime.

Again, I don't think he was axed outright. I do think he was going to have some of his iron first power taken from him, but I do think he could have stayed.

Mutually parted ways is what you'll read in most coverage.

Surely Haslams told him they wanted him to just be a scout/talent evaluator and the shift would be towards an analytical FO approach ... BUT, knowing the discord existed, isn’t that even DUMBER by the Haslams to offer? I mean, think about how much WORSE it would have been if JD is still involved

In every job I ever had, job descriptions change. As an employee, you either accept the change, or you quit. Simple as that. Dorsey Quit.

I'm getting that feeling too. As I mentioned in another thread, I feel like both Kitchens and Dorsey had a major Ego trip after 2018 and everything had to be run their way or no way. If that's really the case, then we're probably better off moving another direction.

Still stuck on the 1-31 crowd I see.

Nah, Hue is pretty much irrelevant these days.

He didn't assemble a poorly talented team.

That would be the simpleton response.

Not surprised.

After reading your posts for some time, I'm not surprised that the basics escape you.

"Mmmmm Hmmmm"

It's a post you use often!

Thanks for proving the point.

Can you tell us about the Doug Lesmerises article again allegedly from MKC?

I agree. When you think you can't improve, you are done.

I really expected Freddie to let Monken call the last game against the Bengals.