Depodesta has been at the center of ever coach and management problem since he was hired by the Browns.

It's the Moneyball man that Haslam's full support...yet what the hell has Depo done to help the Browns build a winning team.

He has been a part time hire for 4 yrs, with him and wife preferring to spend their time San Diego starting a new business in 2012, the year Haslam hired him to work in Cleveland.

Depodesta's record speaks for itself...what does he do other than create conflict within the Browns front office.

This franchise has become nothing but a toy for Jimmy and Depo to play with.

The Browns do not need two GMs...Depodesta needs to be fired.

I don't think Depo wants to be a GM .. I think he is doing the job the job he was hired for .. to offer alternate ideas. He did not think Freddie was ready. He was right. He thought someone else was a better choice, we will never know because the choice was not made. Dorsey dug his own grave with Freddie. If he had stayed with William's or gone to McCarthy last year.. we could very well have been in the playoffs. Hind sight is 20/20 .. now we have to move on.

Tell us what depo does to improve the Browns performance on the field.

what did dorsey do? we were worse this year

Let’s wait to see it play out ... let’s see what coach signs up and what the structure is. IMO, this probably means Stefansky will be here

32...Depo is Haslam's preferred GM...

Everytime Haslam blows up the team...Depo is always retained...yet fans can tell us what he does for the Browns.

Everytime there is a change, it seems that Depodesta is wanting more control.

Analytics bro. Duh.

Duh.

FIFY

Depo came in with Sashi. so there has really only been one blowup with a GM that Depo has been part of, because as far as I know, Depo did not advocate dumping Sashi. In this situation, there is no proof, no quotes, no witnesses to Depo advocating dumping Dorsey. Everything is board conjecture. Dorsey hitched his cart to Freddie, and Freddie burned down the stable.. Cart included.

Haslam, as a result wanted to restructure the Front Office. How so .. we do not know, all we know was Dorsey did not want to do it that way, did not want to give up total control. We do not know what proposal Haslam had, just that Dorsey did not like it and there was supposedly a mutual parting of the ways. Saying Depo was the hatchet man who instigated the whole thing is a huge stretch. As far as I can see, Dorsey dug his own grave.

For what it's worth, I thought Dorsey deserved 1 more year, but with a coaching search going on, Haslam wanted the freedom of not being locked into Dorsey being the only decision maker, and Dorsey did not want to give up power. Who is left to turn to ? Elliot Wolfe and Depo are the only experienced hands on deck. So now we wait and see...

I'll say it: maybe DePo is the one who needs to stay and everyone else needs to go?

Out of the 4 years that you bemoan, how many of them did Haslam or anyone else in the organization actually stick to the structure he was hired to put in place? We know that for at least the last 2 years he's earned the right to say "I told you so" when it comes to HC. Or maybe more accurately "I told you that you shouldn't".

Say what you will about Jimmy being fickle, or Dorsey's ego being before the team... there is nothing out there to date that shows DePo as being anything other than the lone consistent variable in Berea (even when he's not in Berea) over the last 4 years.

Depodesta's very first draft pick...drafted a 5-10, 180lb WR with small hands (9") out of Baylor. Baylor plays in a league that is not known for their defensive play. It is a pass happy conference that produces good stats, though.

Coleman was known for his speed and track skills...but as a WR in the NFL some warned that Coleman had suspect hands and a problem with dropped passes, especially over the middle...

...anyone know the significance of a WR who drops passes over the middle?

...here is a clue..analytics will not identify why a WR might have a high rate of dropped passes, especially over the middle.

While Coleman's stats might have tipped the scale in favor of drafting Coleman as the best prospect, the negatives that some pointed out turned out to be "spot on".

Turns out that some of the draft scouts nailed it in their assessment of Coleman as a NFL prospect...Depodesta blew his first ever draft pick, big time.

...analytics, huh?

Corey Coleman just hasn't got the right opportunity. Give it time.

Is that the same first draft DePo was pretty much just an observer?

So no, it wasn't his pick was it?

The Haslem's need to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

call the plays...oh wait he doesn't.

Calls the defense...oh wait he doesn't.

Makes the draft picks on draft day...Oh wait he doesn't

mac at his usual the sky is falling self...lol

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-brow...pdate-141363809

(Photo: Vice Sports)

The Cleveland Browns shook the sporting landscape earlier this year when they hired a 'baseball guy' by the name of Paul DePodesta to serve as their Chief Strategy Officer. Many criticized the decision due his lack of football experience. With the 2016 NFL Draft approaching, it was unclear what role DePodesta would serve in the process. According to Mark Dominik of ESPN, the Harvard graduate will serve only as an observer during his inaugural draft opportunity. "

Stop bringing facts to the narrative!

Paul Depodesta is just a guy who offers analytical data into the discussion about who the team acquires. He just one of many voices in the input and discussion.

Depodesta is NOT the reason Dorsey is gone, Haslam is. Haslam is the cancer thatr can't leave things alone.

Now Depodesta made the draft picks?

I can't wait until next year when we decide it was someone else we didn't like who made the draft picks.

Perhaps it's Baker Mayfield who made the Corey Coleman pick?

So he really has no impact but he stays anyway? Brilliant!

EO...just bringing up a fact that no one can tell us what Depo does to improve the play on the field?

Your response is typical...you never really considered the fact that Haslam treats Depodesta as his "personal GM".

When it comes time to make changes, Depo is always safe...kind of like he is the teachers pet.

Also, Depodesta is still just parttime.

Every GM that Haslam hires will have Depodesta looking over his shoulder and running to the boss when he has something to share.

It just seems as though everything Depo does improves his standing in the franchise..at least with the Haslam bunch.

Everytime the Browns start firing coaches and GMs..Depodesta is rewarded with more authority over management.

San Diego to Cleveland is a far run.



Except for last year when John Dorsey ran everything, I agree with you.

I’m not reading all the posts in this thread so this might have been said already but what if... depodesta has been the only one advising against all these colossally inane moves all these years and Haslam is finally waking up to it? I’m actually not saying this is likely but I don’t know, neither do you. I have heard that he was against the Kitchens hire, which was definitely the right position imo. Insinuating he’s some kind of master mind, black hand without any actual data other than he’s the only common thread and he’s an analytics guy. Neither of which is actual anything to go on.

That's what he's runnin' with.

mac, your anger is misguided. It's not Depo you should be mad at or is the cause of the upheaval. It's Haslam.

I suspect that Haslam and Depo can coexist with a commitment to analytics. I suspect that Haslam and Dorsey could coexist with a traditional football approach. Depo and Dorsey don't ride the fence. Haslam does. He is and continues to be the worst owners in sports. He creates the conflict by inviting it into the building.

I disagree. He seems to be the only sensible one in the bunch.

He didn't hire Freddie. He didn't trade Zeitler. He didn't draft Corbett.

Just look at the facts. We'd be far better off had Depo been leading the FO.

Dorsey sucked. Plus, the guy was dim. All you had to do was listen to him talk to tell he wasn't very sharp. But, he was a "football" guy....or should I say a "foobal" guy? Heeeeeuuuuug.

Extremely disagree.

Dorsey is the sole reason we have the team we have now.

Whether you like to admit it or not.

His loss is huge. We may never get a GM of his caliber again.

Depo is a non factor in any of that, despite you trying to make it his imaginary job.

Is that extremely, or extremely, extremely disagree? Sorry sister, just making a joke.


Our team is worse than last years. Do you mean that team Dorsey built?

Rish...here is my opinion of Depo...he is Haslam's butt boy, ready to spread his brand of bs everytime he gets together with the boss.

Depodesta is going to continue to create friction in the front office as he and Jimmy evaluate the performance of the coaches and management, while NO ONE EVALUATES Depodesta and Haslam.

Having Depodesta tattling on everyone else to Haslam enables Haslam to continue to keep his grimy fingers all over the football side of the franchise.

Would you prefer to go back to the team we had pre-Dorsey? I think not.

Oh Hey, let's start Tyrod and let Baker sit.

Mac, I value your opinion.

Dorsey built a team that looked like bumbling idiots out there. Depo didn't.


You don't think we looked like a real football team with real football players


Do you?.

Did Dorsey coach the team? Nope. The bumbling is the result of the coaches.

Did Dorsey hire the coach? Yep. So he failed. They should have worked it out last year.

Then he messed up. He brought in OBJ and hand selected Freddie as his head coach of choice.

You are a businesswomen, the choices you make matter. If you choose a simpleton to lead your team, you are a simpleton as well.

So again I ask, who's fault is this...Depo or Haslam?

Haslam creates the dysfunction, not Depo.

The Browns are rotten from the top down. It is a stinking rotten culture that only happens when the very top is rotten.

Dorsey traded a third rounder for Tyrod. You can thank him.

Opinion...OK. But is any of this grounded in facts or you merely venting?

rish...The Browns do not need two GMs...PERIOD.

Depodesta wants to be the Browns GM and if has to be Haslam's butt boy, he has no problem doing it.

Do you believe Depo sets the guidelines on how the franchise will operate?...how is the franchise operating now?

There is a reason the Browns lead the league with the most cap space, nearly every year?...DEPO IS A CHEAP ASS and Haslam just eats that up.

The Browns do not believe in spending Cap dollars to build roster depth. Did you see how that hurt the defense during the final games?...the Browns backup talent was the worst in the NFL...

...is how Depodesta rolls...cheap ass to the point of hamstringing coaches.

Rish...btw, if the Browns fans could force Haslam to sell the team..that would solve the Browns two GM experiment.

I don't believe anything he is saying is true.

Of course it's not.

I'll choose "b".

I think Depo loves to play in the numbers and collect info to help make decisions. That's all. Dorsey didn't like it apparently and only trusted the scouts to have an eye on, in person session. Info like Depos sure cant hurt and now Dorsey has lost. Maybe his info said trading good linemen was a horrible idea? Maybe it said hiring a half season long flashing O coordinator as HC would end badly? Who knows. Dorsey didn't like him and Haslam does. Which one writes the checks? Wolf and McCarthy seem to at least dabble in analyzing data so that seems to be a logical and hopefully smooth route. Time will tell.

I hate it when you hold back Mac.. Tell us how you really feel lol


I think you've gone off the rails a little bit here

Just the very simple debate between McDermott and Jackson should tell you much of what you need to know about how he can help the organization. Depo, of course, was on the side of hiring McDermott.

Rewind a few years. Both the Browns and the Bills were in tanking mode, or rebuilding mode, or whatever you want to call it. Article from ESPN that strongly suggests the Bills are tanking, from 2017: https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post...-are-they-doing

McDermott's Bills made the playoffs that year. Meanwhile Hue Jackson went 0-16, and won 3 games combined in 3 seasons.

The Bills are back in the playoffs again this season, and have a cumulative winning record these last 3 seasons.

About bringing back Hue for that third season, I don't know this for sure, but I am *very* confident that DePodesta would have been against that. Heck, he didn't even want Hue in the first place.

Stefanski vs Kitchens, need I say more? Probably not, but the football guy went to bat for Kitchens and we all know how that turned out.

I think you have to be careful with how much power you give to a guy like Depo, who is obviously extremely smart but also doesn't have a football background and doesn't work in the building full time. I also think that if you can weigh opinions like his properly, having a guy like that around can't hurt and will often help.

Peen...you and nearly everyone favored the hire of Freddie based on his and the team's performance in the last half of the 2018 season.

Clearly Freddie was in over his head and a whole lot of people on this board were wrong in their judgement of the Freddie hire.

Dorsey knew that Freddie was on a "show me" contract and I believe Dorsey already thought ahead and had someone in mind if Haslam fired Freddie.

But if Dorsey had a plan, it didn't see the light of day as Depodesta wanted more power in the front office and Haslam was willing to give it to Depo at Dorsey's expense.

...end of story.

Your zeal in insulting me as if somehow it uplifts your spirits has only revealed your ignorance.

Depodesta is a analytical guy who has devised a system in creating relevant information and is a TOOL for our PERSONNEL people to use.

Evidently those who received the tools to do a better job got fired.

So you have a bad mechanic and fire him...do you also deem the tools to be less and there fore must get thrown out with the one who uses it???

Get with it grasshopper....lol

Saying that "nearly everyone favored the hire of Freddie based on his and the team's performance in the last half of the 2018 season" is simply not true, if we are talking about hiring him as a head coach.

I for sure was not in favor of hiring him as head coach, and many others on this board weren't either. I was in favor of keeping him as offensive coordinator if that were reasonably possible, and thought that was a fair and reasonable promotion for his efforts, and I believe I used close to those exact words to describe my thoughts.

I'm not trying to do the "aha, told you so" but this idea that hiring Freddie to be the full-time head coach was close to unanimous is just not true.

I suppose at some point I got on board with it because the "In Dorsey we trust" thing was in full swing, and I admit that I got caught up on that too for a while, and it sucks to be a downer when there was so much to be excited about at the end of last season and during the off-season.

The more I read, what I thought was going on between Mr Moneyball and Haslam did happen.

Depodesta wanted more power in the front office at Dorsey's expense...Depodesta knew damn well that Dorsey would not allow that and it would force Dorsey to leave.

Depodesta got Dorsey fired...

Or he got him "way parted" because Ive yet to read about a firing but rather they parted ways over "organizational restructuring differences". Sneaky DePo...

Can you give more proof than just your say so???Not saying that it didn't happen that way...just where are the facts surrounding that premise???

Beats facts for simplicity. Not sure I could verify all the facts flying about here this morning.

Happy New Year incidentally.

Lost track here. Read some more, but this gets deeper and the body count is rising. At some point, "Suppose they gave a team and nobody came."

Lacking a viable team, I cannot be expected to contain my excitement over new uniforms Dee won't show us. Our priorities are more skew now than ever.

Educate yourself EO and try to apply some common sense...

link Dorsey and his top football executives had also been at odds with Browns Chiefs Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta, who oversees the analytics side.

DePodesta, whose contract is up after next season, has reportedly contemplated leaving the organization because he wasn’t being heard, but Haslam wanted him to stay.

Dorsey made a number of significant personnel moves since joining the Browns, helping to re-stock what was one of the least talented teams in the league.

What are you reading? Is there more than what the Canada guy with 11 followers tweeted?

Click on the above and read the whole thread. Wow, crazy stuff.

If we had listened to DePodesta, Sean McDermott would probably be our coach right now with the Browns in at least as good of shape as the Bills are.

I can see how suffering through years of the Hue and Freddie show would be a little frustrating, knowing he was totally against both of those moves in the first place.

That sounds made up.

He's up to 78 94 followers though.

Cam from Canada made that up. He had 11 followers prior to this.

He just tagged a bunch of people and got clicks.

We should have all known this the minute we saw that he tagged Tony Grossi & Aaron Goldhammer. You just don't do that if you're credible.

Take your hyperbole to buffalo.

jfan...did you click the link?

The part I posted came from the Cleveland paper.

Careful, mac might be right. Check out the Rappaport tweet in the HC thread.

No, he is not.

Haus...McDermott may have had two choices...the Browns or the Bills.

Given the history of the Browns owners, McDermott probably made the best decision, taking the Buffalo job.

It's worthy of being in both threads!...

Those would have been a year apart though-- the Browns hired Hue in 2016 and the Bills hired McDermott in 2017.

We probably could have hired McDermott had we wanted to. I say 'probably' because it isn't unprecedented for a coordinator to turn down a head coaching job or interview, though I don't recall that ever being the case with McDermott. It was more that Haslam wanted Hue so Hue is who we got.

We need a partnership between GM and HC. The King and his stooge (sorry, Freddie) model wasn't working.

The rival prince (Sashi/Hue) model didn't work either.

Depo's the advisor that keeps getting ignored, but he looks right in hindsight.

We need fewer egos and more working together.

Unfortunately, huge egos make for better TV and that matters with the Haslams.

I like a lot about McDaniels, but ego may be the death of him. If he likes/respects the GM it might work, though.

Stefanski with Berry and Wolf might work. Need to research the Vikes OC some more. ...His lack of resume makes me really hesitant. Only 1 full year as a coordinator.

McCarthy is saying the right things, but I'm not sure I'm buying them. I don't see he and Baker meshing that well. Also, What GM wants to work with him?

Like I said..behind the scenes Depodesta was in Haslam's ear wanting more power at Dorsey's expense.

Depo got Dorsey fired...

Oh boy.

Haslams are going to Haslam.

Commit to a direction one way or another.

I don't think its made up at all. There were comments made of Dorsey implying that the organization needs football guys, and not nerds running the organization. So I'm not surprised of this stunt.

JC

So now we're to the point where the one dude who actually does his job is the scapegoat???

Wow.

I've always considered bidding on the "Dinner with Jimmy and Dee" auction when the Cleveland Browns Foundation holds their annual charity drive.

I picture my wife and I at their home while Jimmy and Dee argue over which meal should be served and ultimately the chef is fired before dinner is served.

Dude, it's made up. The guy had no twitter followers and threw out an unsubstantiated rumor on Twitter with nothing to back it up. He then tagged a bunch of reporters with checkmarks. He didn't list any sources or any other proof to substantiate his claim.

And then they bring in a homeless guy to advise them ..... so they fire the kitchen staff, and wonder why their food isn't coming.

fate...so far, no one knows what Depodesta does or what he did to improve the team.

It is rather obvious that Depo is a master at creating friction in the front in his quest for more power.

Depodesta is a butt-boy and Haslam likes that. The Browns again have the most cap space, not willing to go all in to produce a winning football team...

...that's what Money Ball is...fielding a team as cheaply as you can. Cap space is meant to be spent..not hoarded.

When it comes to Cap Space...that is what Depo does...find the cheapest talent knowing Browns fans will still buy tickets.

While I liked a lot of the moves and draft picks Dorsey made, he also had a lot of bad moves, not necessarily just in regards to player personnel and coaches, but the salary cap. I'm sure the cap moves especially grated on Depodesta.

A couple moves I remember from before this season: keeping Chris Smith and TJ Carrie. In hindsight, these were horrible decisions. If I remember correctly, the Browns could have saved more than $10 million in cap space for future seasons, which could come in handy when discussing future contracts for Schobert, Randall, and Garrett. That far outweighs any contributions we got from them this year.

Dorsey came into an amazing situation with multiple high draft picks and salary cap space, but he failed to deliver a winner. Our cap situation is nowhere near where it was when Dorsey started, but we are still ok.

Luckily for us, Dorsey did significantly upgrade the talent level of this team. It's up to the new GM/coach to make the most of this existing talent, fitting it to their system, while continuing to build the team, apparently with an analytical approach.

They're cheapskates yet went out and signed Landry and then added OBJ?! Cap should be saved and spent when you get to the point where 1 or 2 pieces are needed to put you over the top! You must be smart with it! We see careless teams get in cap trouble constantly! You give DePo FAR to much credit than he deserves! You cant say you dont know what he's done to the positive yet be so matter of fact that he's some destructive force in Berea with some nefarious agenda! You dont, and I dont really know either way what DePos contributions have been! Ridiculous!!!!

Mac....we literally spent the 4th most money in the league this year on our players. You have no leg to stand on when you say we're fielding a "cheap" team.

This doesn't even take into account the mountain of money we are paying to coaches and GMs that no longer work for the Browns.

Moneyball started in baseball, where there is no salary cap. Teams have vastly different budgets depending on popularity, market size, etc. One of the ideas behind Moneyball was to be more efficient; a small-market team like Oakland couldn't spend with the Yankees and such so they had to be better and smarter with every dollar spent.

The result in the early 2000s was actually pretty good, with the A's winning 90+ games every season and 100+ games a couple times, though they lost 3-2 in the first round of the playoffs a bunch of times, so there's that.

The NFL is different as there is both a salary cap and a salary floor, which off the top of my head is something like 89% of the salary cap over a rolling 4 year period. So basically, the lowest spending teams are not that much lower than the highest spending teams, compared to what it is in baseball. It's a moot point though because 'Moneyball' was not designed to spend less money. It was more like the requirement of spending less due to MLB dynamics that led to the development of more efficient ideas.. I think you have that one backwards.

Dorsey brought in talent, just like he did with other teams, just because they were hurt and/or didn't perform to the level of their talent, isn't his fault.

I agree that Depo has done little to nothing and I'm not a big backer of analytics, it's a tool that can be used but shoudl never be the end all be all to finding talent.

Dorsey didn't build other teams in one season and not all of his decisions were perfect, that's my guess, so, I'd saY Haslam had a dumbass knee jerk reaction and didn't give Dorsey a fair amount of time. Hell, Hue Jackass got 2 and as half seasons.

We were 7-8-1 in 2018, that's 1 win and 1 tie better, you could absolutely say that Kitchens incapable playcalling and ability to be a decent HC cost us that much in wins, at least.

We got Landry in a trade.

Does he play for free?

Nope .. but his salary was set by other people .. not our front office.

Just curious....how do you know what Depo does or doesn't do?

Do you have a inside track?

We do know what Depodesta did... He engineered a rebuild, a mathematical "tear down", it was ugly and entirely necessary. When he was done with Phase 1 we had more high draft picks than anybody in the history of the league. He turned a 1 million dollar investment (Brock Osweiler's salary) into Nick Chubb. Everyone in the NFL stopped dead in their tracks at the sheer genius of the move.

He created friction with Dorsey when (many assume this to be true) he convinced Jimmy that Haley was a terrible choice for interim coach because of the expectations that he would be retained. He created more when he favored Kevin Stefanski over Kitchens... alas, Dorsey "flexed his muscles" and got his way. If you'd rather have a "yes man" that just agrees with every idea from the "type A" in the room, you're just asking for more dysfunction.

As far as "quest for power", I'm at a total loss for what you mean by that. Seems to me he is just doing his job.

"Moneyball" was designed for a baseball team to compete in a small market. What he is doing with the the Browns has little to do with that concept. The NFL is more of a level playing field because of salary cap. With that said, Depodesta stockpiled an unprecedented amount of capital in a short amount of time... And Dorsey looked like an 18 year old dropped off at a strip club with a briefcase full of cash. There is nobody in our organization interested in "hoarding cash". That said, few are interested in burning it all for a night out on the town. There are some bills coming due, and Depodesta will also be the architect in working that out... Dorsey had already proven he was a big "fail" in that aspect.

I don't like what just happened, but there is one person to blame for the Dorsey firing, it's the one he sees in the mirror. Particularly true, if after this debacle, he offered no leeway in correcting the course going forward. "My way or the highway" was dead by week 10.

This is false. He signed a new contract when he was traded.

Name calling clearly points to your intelligence.



Had you have said that in the first place I would have agreed with you.



Only the bad mechanic here was Freddie. That decision lays squarely on the shoulders of Dorsey. But everyone from coast to coast knows Dorsey assembled the talent to have a winner with the Browns. You do too.

So using your analogy, we fired a mechanic who did a great job with the exception that he did a poor job on break work. I think the actual decision boils down to that mechanic refusing to quit working on the breaks.



Once you have something to teach me I'll pay attention to it.

The Dolphins signed Landry to a 16.5 mil Franchise tag, establishing the market for the trade. The Browns then signed him to a 5 year contract, with only the last year of the contract ( 2022 ) being higher than Dolphin's annual contract.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/jarvis-landry-14473/

I don't. And neither does anyone else on this board. But to read it, even with that in mind, it sounds like some posters would advocate a statue of him being placed in front of the stadium.

But you claim he is part-time!

This stuff is hysterical.

If somehow Depodesta is the guy that the GM and head coach reports too?

In my opinion that will not be a organizational chart that will work very well.

If this is fact and he is charge of the head coach search?

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/..._14819_30939887

Then you can cross off some of the candidates. They will have better opportunities.

Given our history already we have issues in that regard.

I mean let's be honest why would any of the candidates prefer the Browns with Haslam over other opportunities?

If someone is looking for job security and organizational security: Well Cleveland does not look so appealing.

Add that a head coach with no GM in place will now report to a guy who has been a part time strategist? And more than likely they have had zero experience with him before.

Then you will be looking at a reduced field of candidates and guys who would take any head coach job. The coordinator group that think they can conquer the NFL. Not guys who have a proven record of accomplishment.

Yeah, a guy who won't even move to the city where the team is isn't very committed to working with those around him.

I think you are reading too much in to things.

I am a fan of Depo, but don't hold him up to some legendary status, nor see others.

On the other hand, I do see people up in arms any time Depo's name mentioned. Look at the thread title.

It isn't Depo's fault he has backed guys who would have been better. It's not his fault that Dorsey didn't draft all that well considering the number of picks and failed in a historic way in choosing a coach for this team.

Now you have Haslam looking at Depo's thought's on what we should have done V what Dorsey did. You, I and most everybody else would conclude we need to listen to Depo more.

John got all bent up with that idea and couldn't deal with it....so here we are, posters getting all bent up because Depo might actually be a big value to this team.

Being in charge of the search and making the decision are two different things. I highly doubt you hire a GM and HC who have to report to the analytics guy. If that happens, the disaster here will continue.

orange...how much total cap space are the Browns sitting on as of today?

One of the core principles that Depodesta established was to not pay for depth.

...that principle was exposed once the Browns defense started losing players due to injuries and the suspension of Garrett. The Browns backup players were horrible.

Quality depth can be and IS a difference maker in the NFL. Teams with the best depth on the 53 man roster usually win more games than teams that go cheap on paying for the best depth.

Dorsey did a great job of building this roster. He screwed the pooch when he hired Freddie. And I certainly don't doubt Depodesta's contributions to the Browns. And yes, mac has gone off the deep end on this one.

You have lost your marbles here. Each year you have to plan on the signings next year when considering cap space. There has been nothing cheap about the cap space spent here over the past two years.

I agree. I don't think Depo is all of a sudden in charge of things. Haslam might be listening to him a bit more.

He has him in charge of the search. So what? What does that mean? It could mean a lot of things, but I don't think it means that Depo is the exclusive voice on who gets hired.

Like I said previously, some people hear Depo's name and they go berserk.

J/c

I’m wondering: did JD just like FK because he could control him? Is that the gist of his insisting FK remains coach?

And signing Chris Hubbard to a massive contract
And signing TJ Carrie to a massive contract
And trading Zeitler for Vernon
And trading a 3rd rounder for T. Taylor
And trading Ogbah/ cutting Nassib (simply as depth guys)
The trade of OBJ looks like a joke.
And cutting,then reneging and trading McCourty to NE because he realized people valued him.

I can go on, if you'd like.

That's the popular rumor. Nothing more.

Boy I botched that post....sorry

"Triggered" is the appropriate term.

Peen...if you live long enough, you gain knowledge from the events you experience during your life time.

Some of the lowest character, backstabbing individuals I have encountered were people in management attempting to climb the corporate later.

Let's not act like Depodesta didn't have his own personal agenda to gain more power within the Browns front office. He knew damn well that Dorsey would not give up control over football and draft matters.

Both Haslam and Depodesta dreamed up this scenario to force Dorsey out.

Peen, I suggest you read this link and just look at all the turmoil that has been created since Depodesta was hired.

Depodesta is what he is...and back stabbing butt boy.

I sure hope heading the search and running the show are different.

I don't really have a way to judge Depo. Because I have no way to measure what his influence was.

Apparently Haslam thinks he has value.

Analytics have a part in the NFL and most teams are on board with what they can provide. One thing sticks out in the games played is play calling.

You see teams going way more on fourth and short than in the past.

Analytics have taken over baseball. Every team incorporates analytics.

Baseball analytics fit like hand in glove because of the metrics baseball has built in. So many stats to view in player analysis. Guys go into the minors at 18. Play four years or more in the minors. Lots of stats to look at.

Football straight from high school to college. Then maybe in the NFL in two years. Hard to look at a 20/21 year old with two years in college and go yeah I got this guy measured. When you look at all the different levels of college competition. Sure not like going from A ball to AA ball then AAA ball.

All we can do is hope we get it right.

I want McCarty. I would accept Stefanski. The others smell the same as what we have had before.

The GM and Head Coach will never report to Depodesta. Not in this universe. There is not a worry in my mind that Jimmy is considering anything like that. Depo's title is chief strategy officer, and will remain the same. It has much more to do with giving people useful information and ideas than rejecting theirs.

We have to follow the flowchart... Dorsey rejected and structural changes and parted ways. My best guess is that he wanted direct control of the entire process. Now that he's gone, who should be in charge of "directing the coaching search"?

I think people tend to put too much stock in our daily rumors and sound bytes. Depo is merely the person in charge of organizing the interview process and being a set of ears in the room. Why? Because he has been entrusted with the mechanics of building a sustainable future - from a business standpoint, not an "Xs and Os" standpoint. To say that candidates won't bother because he is directing the search is a bit of a reach imo. Everything else you said about our history and dysfunction has little to nothing to do with Depo.

I think we're seeing a drastic change in philosophy in how NFL teams are run. A coach and GM need to be more of a tandem than part of a hierarchy. We're seeing the two be hired together more and more. Teams are parting ways with both when changes need to be made to ensure the next two are "on the same page" from the beginning. Personally, I think that opens more doors than it closes, and makes the probability of hiring experience at the HC level easier. In essence, the prospect can pitch his entire sale instead of wondering if he will mesh with the current GM.

j/c...

I'm not sure how I feel about Stefanski. I'm looking for a solid solution that is has proven success at the HC level in the NFL.

It seems to me that with Wolf already here and McCarthy's proven track record as an NFL HC, that would be the best combination with the least amount of turmoil. They have worked together before and the results were good. McCarthy has openly spoken about being willing to use analytics as a tool in team building. That looks like a combination where those two and Depo may be able to work well together. That would be a nice change of pace.

Secondly I like the idea of Jim Caldwell as has been mentioned on the board. His record isn't as impressive as McCarthey's but he had much less to work with in terms of talent. He also seemed to get more out of Stafford than any other HC the Lions have had. The latest rumor I've seen about him is he may be going to Miami as an asst. coach.

I believe (no evidence) that Depodesta has been preaching this all along and probably has shown his case on paper.
Everyone on the same page or failure.
It may not have to be HIS guy but just the group that works together.

But in reality, insert any person's name, and getting others in concert for a unified vision/direction is always a plus.

peen...and let me add this little nugget of information.

In Depodesta's first analytic draft in 2016, Depodesta traded down to 15 to pick up draft picks then drafted 5-10, 180lb WR.CORY COLEMAN. Depodesta bragged about drafting Coleman.

In that same 2016 draft was a 6-3, 212lb WR that Depodesta passed over TWICE!

...that WR that Depodesta passed over TWICE, preferring Cory Coleman, the WR who did not come close to meeting Depodesta's analytic standards...THAT WR WAS JUST NAMED THE NFLS OFFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR!

Depo can BS his way up the front office ladder, but his ability to judge football sucks.

There are a lot of things missing and incorrect with this post.

For example, DePo has the same title with both regimes, so if we are going to incorrectly attribute every pick in 2016 to him, let's also incorrectly attribute every pick to him in 2017, 2018, 2019 to him as well.

Through what process did we arrive at the assumption that Paul Depodesta was making our draft picks??

C'mon bro.

Who ran the drafts? I recall people sayinging Sashi. I remember people saying Haslam. I recall people saying Berry had the most imput. My God, I remember people saying a panhandler sitting outside a downtown restaurant led the draft.

Hence DePos push for everyone on the same page I guess.

It's already been dug up and posted that Depo was an observer only during that first draft.

Did Mac research that?

No memp...I was specific, pointing out Depo's 2016 draft. I didn't mention any other drafts.

Why not?

Why not mention Garrett? Schobert? Ward? Chubb? If you want to incorrectly blame DePo for Coleman, let's equally, incorrectly celebrate him for these other picks. It's only right.

If not for Depo, we wouldn't have Chubb, right? Did you research that?

I guess if we're counting repeating rumors as research, yeah.

Awesome. Then DePo in his four years here is a no-brainer.

DePodesta has a very important part in adding tools that can be used as a part of the evaluation process. It would be nice to have a GM and HC that can work with him as a unit. Making it any more than that is a reach of gigantic proportions.

Trust the gut.

Butch Davis did that and all he needed was Tums.

I am in agreement as long as Depo stays in his lane.

I didn't mean to imply that candidates would pass on us because he is heading the search. Only if he is placed above in the chain of command.

Ahhh... Gotcha.

I don't think there's any worry of the chain of command being a factor. If there is we may be in bigger trouble than we think.

Browns ownership is leading the coaching search; Paul DePodesta is running the process
Updated 12:35 PM;Today 12:17 PM

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Browns ownership is leading the coaching search this time around, but Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta is running the process, a source tells cleveland.com. The ownership group includes Dee and Jimmy Haslam, and their son-in-law JW Johnson, the Executive Vice President of the team.

Last year, Browns GM John Dorsey, who was let go on Tuesday, led the search and beat out DePodesta in the hire of Freddie Kitchens over Vikings offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski, who’s a candidate again this year.


Everyone in the organization liked Stefanski last year, including Dorsey, the source said. But he opted for the inexperienced Kitchens, who was fired Sunday night after going 6-10 in his lone season and running a dysfunctional program.

As reported on Tuesday, DePodesta will not take over as head of football operations. He lives in San Diego and comes in a few days a week, and has no plans to be in Cleveland full-time at this time.

The Browns left the GM position open during this coaching search so that the new coach has some say in his top personnel exec. If Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels takes the job, he’ll likely want to be paired with his own man such as David Ziegler or Nick Caserio, both Patriots personnel execs who played football with him at John Carroll University. Former Browns personnel exec Scott Pioli would also be an option if McDaniels takes the job, a source told cleveland.com.

If Mike McCarthy gets the job, Browns assistant general manager Eliot Wolf would be a strong candidate for a promotion to general manager, a league source told cleveland.com. McCarthy will get the first interview, on Thursday. The Browns will interview 49ers defensive coordinator Robert Saleh in Santa Clara, Calif., over the weekend, and the Browns are intrigued by him. He would have to bring in a strong offensive coordinator to sell the Browns on his hiring.


Despite a report that the Browns are expected to interview 49ers offensive assistants Mike McDaniel or Mike LaFleur while they’re out in the Bay Area, nothing is scheduled at this time. Both would also be offensive coordinator candidates if Saleh gets the job. Both were with the Browns in 2014 under 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan, who was offensive coordinator at the time.

The Browns can also interview Ravens offensive coordinator Greg Roman this week because he’s on a playoff bye.

The Haslams also love former Vice President of Player Personnel Andrew Berry, now the Eagles VP of Football operations, and would like to bring him back if it makes sense with the new coach. Berry worked with DePodesta here before, and the two would be closely aligned.

Other head coach candidates for the Browns are Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, and Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/01...he-process.html

AKA the same as it's always been. The Haslems have final say.

Never encouraging.

They own the team, they will always have the final say. Their problem has been following their gut or letting others run the interview process.

Their problem has been getting it wrong no matter what they've done. Chud had to go - as much as I liked him, the team quit on him 100% and I do not blame the Haslams for that firing. Petine and Farmer was cancerous. Hue was reckoned to be quite the catch for the Browns when we hired him.... Man it's painful looking back.... I'll stick to looking forward and hoping McCarthy gets the gig.

I have said so on this or other threads. I don't think there is any doubt that Dorsey wanted the coach under his thumb. It's why he didn't give Williams much consideration. Williams wasn't going to be a "yes" man.

You can even go back to his statement about the previous group didn't get real football players. Depo was working here. That was a jab at him as much as anyone else. I thought it a very unprofessional comment.


LOL...funny....look who is gone and look who is here. Johns problem is he couldn't get a real coach....he wanted a lackey and didn't want to deal with a smart person.

He didn't put the Browns before himself.

They have committed to a direction: Circular. They are completely clueless and will NEVER achieve any success as NFL owners unless they change the madness which is their management style. NEVER.

They can go to hell. They should sell the team. The sooner the better for ALL of us.

We paid close to $18 million for back-up defenders like TJ Carrie, Chris Smith, Adarius Taylor, and Eric Murray. Not sure how much more you want to pay for back-up defenders? How did they work out for us? So yeah, that arguement holds no water.

We have around $32 million in cap space that we are rolling over. We will have a projected $52 million in cap space when the new league year starts, 17th most in the league, and right next to Baltimore at $51 million. That is only because we are rolling over a lot more money than them, because our roster at present is $28 million more expensive than the Ravens'.

I hate to break it to you, but players like Kirksey, Vernon, and TJ Carrie are most likely gone, because their value to the team does not match their current salaries. And with Depo in charge, those types of players will likely be gone.

He's not going to be in charge.

So we need to pick a coach of which Dorsey wouldn't approve and we are done; moving forward maybe. Makes much sense.

And so they should. You can't just throw money at a player; that is simply fiscally irresponsible...

Not so much if they are finally acknowledging that Depo can be a critical contributor to the team...

Not calling this thread "Depo needs to go" was a major missed opportunity.

Let's be real, analytics is bunch of garbage. John Dorsey was right to sprurn that nonsense. Analytics says Nick Chubb wouldn't be a top 5 RB, and what happened? Yeah...

The same analytics that said Carson Wentz isn't a franchise QB. I mean he only has a career 63.8 % completion percentage, 14,191 yards, 97 TD and only 35 picks and a career Qb rating of 92.7...yup he def isn't a franchise QB lol

Look Bill Bellichik himself said analytics are cap.



The greatest coach of all time is telling you that Analytics is garbage and he doesn't use it and doesn't even care about it. Depodesta is a snakeoil salesman, football is a completely different game than baseball.

Its easys to see how Bellichik finds players. He does the following:

1. Does this guy care more about being a good football player than being famous?

2.Does this guy appreciate the chance to play in the NFL?

3. Is this guy coachable? Will he accept constructive criticism in order to get better?

4. Is this guy going to buy into the system, work hard, shut his mouth, and play smart quality football?

5. Is the guy smart and is he a student of the game always trying to improve himself and get better

6. Will this guy fit in as a cohesive piece to a much greater unit. Is he ok with just being a spoke on the wheel instead of being the wheel its self?

See talent plays a role in it, but not all of it. Bellichik will take a guy that is slightly less talented and checks all the boxes above over a guy that is more talented but doesn't fit all the criteria. Just look at his drafts and FA signings, thats how this works.

The only mega talented stars BB takes risks on are low draft pick trades and FA, guys that he can see if they buy in or not but there is little risk in cutting them if it don't work out.

Analytics is a bunch of bunk when it comes to football and BB is laughing as he keeps kicking the snot of of the rest of the NFL year after year.

Analytics doesn't work in football because football unlike baseball, comes down to 1v1 battles, be it a WR, TE, OT, DE, every position has to beat and outplay their man. Who wins these battles changes from year to year. In 2018 Steelers OT Villnova helds Myles Garret mosttly in check, but in the only Steelrs game Garret played in this year Garret dominated him like a rented mule...this is why Analytics doesn't work.

Kenny Britt is a prime example of why Analytics is bunk, Britt won more 1v1 matches the year before than he did with us, too many variables...Baseball is much less about 1v1 matcheups and much more about cohesive teamwork...this is why Moneyball and Analytics doesn't work in the NFL and will fail....

Haslam will figure this out 3 years from now...He won't listen to Bellichik who tells him its crap...why listen to the greatest Coach/GM in the history of the NFL right? How many championships does he have to win? lol

Depodesta should have been gone when Brown was gone.

Lol ugh i forgot about Kenny Britt ... yeah, that wasn’t the smartest idea ..

Look folks...there no doubt that Depodesta was at the center of the friction within the franchise again.

It seems that some view Depodesta as some kind of nerd who works to stays in his lane and be a model member of the franchise.

The excerpt below show an owner who is attempting to operate the franchise with 2 GMs (analytics & football), PLUS Haslam's own personal desire to be a GM/owner, himself.

Below is just an example of how Haslam stays involved and Depodesta was in the middle of conflicts from day one.

This caught my attention..."there's always a race to be the last one to talk to Haslam before a big decision"

Too many GMs(Depo and the new GM) and one owner who views himself as the GM.

No doubt there will be more friction, dysfunction, infighting regardless of who is hired as HC and GM.

Excerpt from ESPN article from 2016... link

After a few rounds of interviews, the brass voted. It was 4-1 in favor of Sean McDermott, the Panthers' defensive coordinator, a coach who had crushed his interview and was known to be open to new ideas.

Haslam voted for Hue Jackson, the former Raiders head coach and then-Bengals offensive coordinator. Jackson was a respected playcaller and teacher, especially with quarterbacks. Haslam told the group he felt Jackson could relate better to players. Jackson knew how hard it was to get a second chance as a head coach, and he was nervous about the rebuilding plan. He would later tell friends the team undersold him on the extremeness of the rebuilding plan, a charge that Browns executives found absurd, given the level of detail shared during the interview process.

DePodesta wrote Haslam an email arguing that the Jackson hire went against many of the characteristics of successful coaches they had discussed. Brown met with Haslam -- there's always a race to be the last one to talk to Haslam before a big decision -- and told him he thought hiring Jackson would be a bad call. "I hear you," Haslam said.

Then Haslam flew to Cincinnati and hired Jackson, who would report directly to ownership.

In a span of 10 days, Haslam had fully committed to two opposing football philosophies, and whether he intended to or not, he had set himself up as the arbiter of future conflicts.

THE FIGHTING STARTED before Jackson had even coached a game. In August 2016, Brown had a deal in place to trade 34-year-old All-Pro punter Andy Lee and a seventh-round pick to the Panthers for 24-year-old punter Kasey Redfern and a 2018 fourth-round pick. It was a good deal that helped the Browns trade for Dolphins star receiver Jarvis Landry last year. But after learning that Lee would be shipped, Jackson "went nuts," a source says. He stormed into Haslam's office to protest.

Looking back, several in the building wished Haslam had drawn clear boundaries right then, ordering Jackson out of his office and telling him to focus on coaching the team. But for better or worse, Haslam will always listen -- and listen to a lot of voices. In two years, Haslam had increased the number of his direct reports, between Browns business and football, from one to seven. He continued to solicit his usual array of opinions both from outsiders and from all corners of the building, leaving everyone to wonder and worry over who was in the latest iteration of his inner circle. It fostered mistrust. Those who were in the circle and those who no longer were in it studied Haslam like a psychological experiment. Why was nobody good enough for him? He had been quick to pull the trigger at Pilot also, sidelining CEO John Compton -- whom he had recruited for years -- after less than six months on the job. Haslam seemed well-intentioned but too easily swayed, and as a result, he often "became a mechanism that undermined his own structure," a source close to him says.

In the end, it was Haslam's team. He was the billionaire owner, and he could spend his time as he chose, even if it meant wasting it getting bogged down in a fight over a punter.

Analytics are always there.

1. Scores
2. Rushing totals
3. Yards per game
4. completion %
5. Yards per carry
6. height
7. weight
8. muscle mass
9. how high someone can jump
10. speed
11. Penalties
12. FG %
13. Long distance FG %
14. strength

I guess Belichick says he does not look at any of those things. Well, it seems as though all of that is part of the game, if he admits it or not.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/9/22/20878730/baltimore-ravens-kansas-city-chiefs-analytics

https://theathletic.com/1396091/2019/11/...aggressiveness/

https://www.espn.com/blog/baltimore-rave...tball-analytics

Analytics can measure everything but the most important thing
The desire to win
Not enough on the Browns roster has that

Bill Belichick is a liar. (You already knew that.)

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/02/04/new-england-patriots-super-bowl-52-who-is-ernie-adams

Haslam & Haslam: The Land's Answer to Jerry Jones?

I just do not like JJand his finger in every pie approach. But these owners seem to be heading that way. Just wish we could have our old Browns, warts and all, just roughnecks who punished opponents and competed with "miles and miles of heart" (The Replacements).

We seemed not to be ready and not hungry to put people away. People slobbered for us. They used to dread playing us.

We didn't need all the FO garbage to get after people then. We just need a different caliber.

Your whole premise and position to sheer lunacy to put it nicely. You literally posted an article that validates what DePo is trying to do here I.e. pushing for McDermott over Hue, while blowing up narrative about him being his ‘butt boy’. If they had such a relationship all along, why hasn’t Jimmy sided with DePo every step of the way? You keep making this claim that DePo is some under handed power hungry assassin is absolute stupidity. Clearly the guy is only trying to be taken seriously for the exact friggin reasons he was brought here! Oh no! How terrible! The man puts in all this work, it g set a ignored, he continually builds a case of having been right, and the result is expects to be taken seriously??

Are you sure you aren’t part of the trolling Cleveland media?

come on Peen.

The Browns job was Dorsey's dream job. He wanted it to work. Everything he did was towards that goal.

You make it sound like he hired Freddie so he could rule him.

He hired Freddie because he thought him to be the right guy. He was wrong. He was wrong about Corbett. Comes with being a GM.

Dorsey made a mistake and it cost him his job. That simple.
When Haslam fired Freddie the door was still open for Dorsey. He just didn't want to be in the position Haslam offered. It was a demotion.

Dorsey wanted the Browns to be his signature accomplishment. It just didn't work out.

That was part of his problem, he was in such a hurry to turns thing around right away so him and his ego could say "look what I did!". We didn't need OBJ and why would you trade one of the best OGs in the league for an Over-paid DE who can't stay healthy and only averages 7 sacks a season.

At what point is is a coaching failure VS a structural/ownership failure?

Given the ESPN article about Haslem creating conflict inside the organization, I really have to believe that it is him who has failed, far more than anyone who has worked for him.

Haslam didn't coach the team. This past season is a fail because our HC was a fail.

Beyond that....the FO/Structure is absolutely on Haslam. Letting Dorsey go is a fail. So I dunno. Browns don't know a good thing when it is staring them in the face.

When the environment becomes poisonous, everyone is on edge, and cooperation is eliminated. Everything becomes a power play, because that is what rolls down from on high in the organization.

I disagree. But you can believe that imaginary stuff if you like.

If analytics is crap, why does nearly every team use it. If Depo had been listened to in some cases, coaching hires, we wouldn't still be in this mess. Dorsey, the football guy, hit on some and missed BADLY on some=RG draftee REAL high, bust- we need to use every tool, hope owners use analytics and not go with their guts- how's Johnny helped us......GO Browns!!!

Even so, it really isn't a deciding factor in NE

Football isn't rocket science. You have to draft guys that "fit" what systems you run on both sides of the ball, physical traits are part of it, but you gotta find the right attitude too. This is what anaylitics misses.

Size, Speed, physical attributes or so called "talent" isn't everything. Tom Brady is NOT the most talented QB in the NFL, and he NEVER has been. What Brady HAS been is the hardest worker, the most intense study, A student of the game, a guy that is always looking for ways to improve his game. The guy does mental exercises everyday FFS! lol This is what makes him the best. the BEST player is not always the most talented.

I would like to see a Union of agreement and same goals from all with in. Takes time to get all on board. Hopefully it comes soon.

Did you read that ESPN article, with quotes from people in the organization over the years Haslem has owned the team?

Ignoring something doesn't make it imaginary.

Can the Browns operate with two GM...Depodesta and the next GM sucker Haslam lies to?

There isn't a head coach or GM prospect out there that doesn't know who Haslam and Depodesta roll..and who Haslam confided in constantly. Depodesta was a long way from a team player in the front office with his crazy "guidlines and rules" that affected the franchise in a negative way when it comes to football.

Financially, the Browns are in great shape...but teams that don't invest when it's needed, to help build a winner, don't win much..the Browns near the top (#2) in cap space again...but there is no trophy for the most cap space.

But hey, after all, Jimmy and Depodesta are obviously playing Moneyball...not NFL football.

Great Atlanta pic, Eve. At least there fans get to look forward to some good stuff. This Podesta bomb that went off seems a bit overblown to me.

And Happy New Year.

Orange...you know damn well your numbers are NOT based on a complete full 53 man roster.

I'm using numbers based on the 2019 season that is not over until March 18, 2020, when the new league year begins. The new cap space number is expected to be around 201m, usually not announced until March 1, 2020.

Depos job is not to improve play on the field. His job is to provide statistical analysis on players. Getting they players to perform on the field is job of the HC and HC only.

J/C

Depo and his numbers are a tool (the wrench).

John Dorsey was the mechanic.

The mechanic changed the oil, but forgot to put the oil cap back on. The oil leaked out and the engine blew.

You don't fire the wrench, you fire the mechanic.

J/S

Dorsey wasn't a good thing.

We just need a different mechanic.

I still look at Depodesta's first draft and think about how clueless he was about judging player talent.

The teams that are successful rely on coaches and management that have YEARS AND DECADES OF NFL EXPERIENCE...not some dude looking to build his own personal business called Sports Mind Institute, using the Browns to promote himself.

Depodesta just outed himself as a Butt-Boy, willing to go behind the football people to promote his Moneyball method to the Browns owner.

Depodesta's first draft?

Do you even have any idea what you're talking about?

devic...do you liked the Cory Coleman pick.

he doesn't...just trolling by doubling down on something he knows nothing about. Countless people have posted articles about his so called first draft in which he was "observer only"

So you liked depo abilty to judge QB talent?

You do realize Depodesta wasn't the one drafting, right?

Depodesta was doing all the talking after the 2016, first round debacle that Depodesta just loved.

I could not agree more with that statement.

The Haslam's created this mess.
Besides what if anything has Depo done since coming here that one could hang their hat on enough to invest all the power in him?

It seems to me that everyone besides him has shouldered the blame since he arrived.

Why is he immune to excepting the failures of the past, in the present?

Depodesta isn't going to have all the power.

I think people are trying to place blame on Depodesta for things he has not done. He doesn't pick the players nor coach the team.

He recommended NOT hiring Hue and recommended NOT hiring Kitchens. Both were good recommendations.

That's kind of the thing isn't it?

The only things that seemed to have been leaked are "the good things" that everyone wishes to hang their hats on. Yet we have no clue about all of the bad do we?

Makes for a one sided debate.

I wonder which QB Depodesta thought we should draft 2 years ago.

The numbers said Mayfield was the best QB to come out in years. I'd imagine he felt Mayfield was the best, although that's not necessarily his "lane."

Numbers are exactly his game. Presenting the analytics in the process seems to be the only thing people agree on that is in his lane.

Mac is just chapped. He wanted Sashi and crew out the door, Then was giddy with Dorsey was hired.

He's mad because his football guy failed in a big way and we are seeing Depos name.

It's pretty funny. The problem is Mac and a few others will go crazy because Depo resides in their heads.

Jimmy and Depo will be a tag team for a long time. We just need to get the right coach and all will be right with the world.

I'd imagine under most scenarios unless we hired Gettleman, that we still would have drafted Mayfield #1. He was the best.

j/c...

Strong endorsement for DePo from Joe!...

That'll rattle a few cages...

OK....I'm sold...LOL

Joe is such a great ambassador for the browns.

It really sucks that we couldn’t even deliver this dude one playoff appearance.

Look, I love JoeT as much as the next guy... but his endorsements mean absolutely nothing. The guy, bless his heart, will endorse anything that is currently wearing a Browns logo.

I appreciate what he's trying to do... but what he's trying to do doesn't include giving an open and honest assessment on someone.

Joe said that Freddie should be fired when Freddie was still wearing a Browns logo (see the ThomaHawk show podcast).

You even gave Joe the "bless his heart" yikes!

Who said that he was against their hiring then? Why is this coming out after the fact?

Negitive evidence is no evidence to the contrary.

No one is trying to give DePo all of the power and to date there’s absolutely nothing that points to DePo trying a coup in Berea.

DePo probably isn’t being part of the blame game for most of us because what little we do know appears to show that the key decisions that have turned out to be colossal failures like hiring Hue and Freddie were done against his recommendations, recommendations that probably would have been the better route to go.

Anyway, I’m done with this thread. I don’t believe in reporting conduct to the refs but I’m done contributing to such an asinine topic when the creator keeps using homophobic slurs to make his case.

Its easy to claim NOW after the fact, that he was against those hirings, but now is just too convenient for happen sake.

I'm more referring to all the terrible QBs and coaches previous that Joe has given his endorsement.

I will say that I forgot about that on his Podcast, so thanks for reminding me. Perhaps now that he's away from the team he's a little more free with his real opinions. Still, he's working against past endorsements to the likes of Shurmer, McCoy, Quinn, etc.

Well, it wouldn't come out before the fact.

This info has been public for several years. It was current news when Hue was hired, when Freddie was hired. This didn't come to light in the last couple of days.

It was that he was against them You are the one saying that. Depo thought McDermott and Stefanski where who he would hire.

There is a big difference.

It's different when you are actually on the team. He isn't a team mate to any of these guys and isn't playing for any coach.

That makes a huge difference. A character guy doesn't throw his team mates or coaches under the bus.

That is in correct! I was remarking to another who stated such.

Exactly, this whole thread has a tin-foil hat feel to it. We don't have any proof of any of this .. but the creator hates "Harvard Boys", so he just knows Depo is up to something. Don't really need proof or anything.



Depo isn't to blame because he straight-up ISN'T making any decisions. He has recommendations, based on what the data shows, and many times there is a consensus agreement between all parties that it's the direction we should go. If anything, the biggest times the team gets into trouble is when we get one person who want to go off and get "their guy". Haslam went against consensus and got Johnny Football and later, Hue Jackson. Dorsey had to get Freddie Kitchens. Jackson had to have AJ McCarron. Etc. Depo's never had an instance (That we've heard of) where he pounded the table for a guy that everyone else in the room was in disagreement.

From the sounds of it, it feels like we're trying to put together a Front Office that wants to row in the same direction, and put their humility in check if everyone else is against one of their decisions. That doesn't sound like a Power Coup to me.

Haslam didn't really hold back on Freddie in the press conference.

Yeah, but he also said it much nicer than most people, even legit NFL talking heads on Twitter.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.....you mean coaches putting players in the best situation to succeed should be the goal? Crazy.

Brings me back to this....

I think that he clearly showed Freddie's warts ... summarized with not looking for
"my way or the highway" character types.

"Im the Coach, and I am calling the plays"

I think that Dorsey could be said to fit this mold too, with the Depo binder in the trash can, which was a childish act (motives aside) from a man in his position.

That "Depo binder in the trashcan" story might be fake news, if what I read here yesterday is true.

And yet Freddie was relentless in trying to pound that square peg into a round hole...

Well thanks, but that does not surprise me with all of the speculations this week.

At least Haslam's presser answered the questions concerning Depo's role, which will remain the same, and I am good with that.

I'm good with that too. It's just amazing the conclusions people will jump to based on unsubstantiated rumors posted on Twitter.

Let me go make a twitter post that says that Dee Haslam was having an affair with John Dorsey. And that is the reason they parted ways.

Tomorrow it will be fact. *eye roll*

Yeah, like the one that said VP/PP Hightower was fired along with Dorsey.

I've been reading so much crap it's going to take a month to sort through how much of it is actually true and how much of it isn't.

According to some it's already gospel

Most certainly fake. A guy in Vancouver that was nothing more than a disgruntled caller to Cleveland Browns Daily does not have the inside scoop.

Seems like something that would have been left on the cutting room floor from Revenge of the Nerds.

<Ogre throws Gilbert's calculator on the ground and smashes it. Proceeds to push him down. Walks off laughing with the rest of the Alpha Betas>

j/c

I know Twitter is here to stay, but I think posting tweets should be restricted to verified accounts.

I understand your intent. However, Nate Ulrich, beat reporter for the ABJ is not verified. Neither is Scott Petrak, Browns beat reporter as well, among others.

Everyone has a choice whether or not to believe twitter accounts from sketchy accounts or accounts they are unfamiliar with.

For example, I do not believe the tweet from Cam From Canada about Dorsey tossing DePo's binder in the trash for a second regardless of how often it would be posted.

Again, I understand where you're coming from, however, we as consumers of information need to be a little more savvy on our end.

Or when a fan tweets something about a comment Josina Anderson said on ESPN and then try and make fun of the kid simply because they had no clue she actually said that on live air. and wanted to share info with people that chose to follow him.

People need to get a better understand of Twitter, and as a result, will realize what is real and what it is not. Even still, tweets will be wrong. Goodness, CNN has been doing that for years!

Maybe that is true.

I recall seeing that the analytic team told Jimmy not to hire Hue because he doesn't meet the parameters they laid out. It wasn't just that they said we recommend hiring so and so over Hue. Jimmy said yup, uh huh, gotcha, and then flew to Cincinnati and hired Hue anyway.

Best use of an animated GIF ever! Well done!

That's kind of odd. Just yesterday you said what the talking heads said was something you didn't pay attention to. Now today you suddenly seem interested in what someone on ESPN had to say. Odd how that works.

I'm not interested in it but I'm happy to give my opinion of where it came from. I'm more interested in pointing out that posters (you, for example) have a very rudimentary understanding of twitter and would rather make fun of a fan posting information from a ESPN show than doing research on the information to see where it came from.

Well since you don't care what these people say, what difference does it make where it came from? But you're pretty much right in regards to me not giving a damn about Twitter or care to learn why everyone and their brother want to spread rumors around.

The fact people waste their time with that is what puzzles me. Like yesterday people posting and raising the profile of a kid with 11 followers. It's pretty frivolous.

Because people like you trying to make fun of a kid just because he wanted to share information about what a journalist said on TV is sad. You made fun of the kid. Next time, question the reason why the poster on here decided to post his tweet instead trying to make this kid into a wannabe-journalist. It's another bad look.

Ah, but the kid didn't say he was sharing it from anywhere now did he?

So it's up to me to figure out where a kid gets his information from?

Sounds like some BS you would come up with.

Yes, if you want to claim he was a wannabe-journalist, that he made it up for twitter followers, and tried make fun of him for it. Sure.....absolutely.

It's funny.....your response to his tweet is ironically the exact thing you were trying to make fun of him for.

I get your point, and I wouldn't have a problem with recognized local beat writers' Twitter accounts being allowed, verified or not, assuming it was established that they were legit. But its not fair to expect the reader to know whether someone named Cam Canada (or whatever it was) is a real source or not. We are not all Twitter creatures. Before Twitter, the rule here at DT was that news reports had to be attributed, ideally with a link to an actual news site (not a blog). Posted rumors would be deleted. But now we find ourselves needing to be "savvy" about whether the source of posted info is legit or not. This is not progress, IMO. People have lives and jobs. It shouldn't be our job to somehow divine whether the info we are reading is reliable/legit/possibly true or not. If we read it here, it should - at the very least - be from a reliable source.

You feel that people should try and decipher where and why someone posted something on Twitter. That's ridiculous. Even on this board you have to site a source. If someone wants you to know where they gathered information from, they should give the source on their Twitter post.

I'm not doing their homework or research because they have no clue what they're doing.

Quoted for truth.

I feel people should be a lot smarter and aware.

Maybe you should try that.

Someone one-up'd him. \

#Notverified

As somebody who is high on Stefanski, and yet wants nothing to do with the talent evaluator that put together an 0-16 team (even a Hue coached team should at least one game), can someone explain the Stefanski/Berry connection? I don't get it. Is that just speculation or are they actually rumored to want to work together?

Stefanski is said to be analytically driven and Andrew Berry is as well. There is no other connection. Stefanski has worked for the Vikings his entire career.

J/c

The fact that MOST of us on here were begging FK to stay in 21 personnel and play to Baker’s strengths (some even broke it down in-depth) is quite telling

To my knowledge, as far as interpersonal relationships are concerned, there isn't any.

The only connections are towards an embracement of analytics and Depodesta's inclination to both of them. DePo preferred Stefanski over Kitchens last year and allegedly had a very good working relationship with Berry when he was here.

Also, on many accounts, the Haslems are/were fond of Andrew Berry.

Is the new working theory that Berry was the brains (part or all) behind the Sashi drafts?

No. The consistent, prevailing thought from people that liked what the plan was with Sashi included Berry as a very important piece.

People claimed Sashi was doing talent evaluation on players, which was laughable. Sashi had final decision on whether to draft a guy or trade up/down, but the player(s) in questions was the work done by Berry and the scouting staff. This was challenged, ad nauseam, often.

All I want to know is who was the guy that thought passing on Wentz, drafting Corey Coleman... so on and so forth... we're all good ideas. I want to know who that is and stay as far away from that person as possible.

Then you might not be happy moving forward. Still, if people would appreciate the need to accumulate extra draft capital considering the state of the organization in 2016, maybe one would think differently? It's the same group that wanted Garrett and many other players with it on this roster.

I think Wentz was passed on as a team building effort .. to get as many draft picks as possible out of 1 pick. Coleman happened to be who we picked when our pick came up. I do not think the plan was to pass on Wentz and pick Coleman instead, he was just the highest rated WR available at that time ( pick 16 ).

but yes.. Depo was quoted as saying that he did not have Wentz rated as the #2 pick in the draft.

jc...

Try to put yourself in Dorsey's position after Haslam fired Hue Jackson. It seems the Browns had their choices for HC down to Depo's preferred choice of Stefanski and Kitchens.

Stefanski played safety for Penn earning honorable mention honors twice and after the end of the season was named as an assistant to his college coach for 2005. During the summer of 2005, the Eagles hired Stefanski as and intern.

In 2006 Stefanski was hired as an assistant to the HC, Brad Childress. Childress coached the Viking from 2006 to 2010 and Stefanski handled scheduling details and served as a liaison between Childress and the players.

In 2009 Childress considered Stefanski ready to coach on the field and named him assistant QB coach. Stefanski coached TEs in 2014-2015 and RBs in 2016. In 2017-2018 he coached QBs. Stefanski became had been the Vikings "interim OC" for the final three games of the 2018 season...the very first time that Stefanski had ever coached as an OC in the NFL.

...VS...

..., Freddie Kitchens, had experience playing QB at Alabama, starting for 3 seasons with the Tide. Kitchens started his coaching career at the college level in 1999 with Glennville State, then at LSU as a grad assist. in 2000, then RB coach for North Texas for 3 seasons and then 2 seasons at Miss. St. in 2004 as TE coach and 2005 as RB coach.

In 2006 Kitchens was TE coach for the Cowboys, then spent 10 years coaching TEs, RBs and QB coach for the Cards for 4 seasons. Then Kitchens was hired by the Browns as RB coach in 2018, taking over as OC for the last 8 games with the Browns winning 5 games and 3 losses. Kitchens worked well with the Browns rookie QB Baker Mayfield, who was named the NFL offensive rookie for 2018.


NOW, TELL ME DORSEY WAS WRONG TO CHOOSE KITCHENS OVER STEFANSKI...

Dorsey was wrong.

Depodesta was right not liking Kitchens.

#TrustTheGut

In this case, literally and figuratively.

That was Hue Jackson. He can't hurt us anymore though.



How early did Hue Jackson want a receiver in this draft?

"As fast as I could get one,'' he said.

Imagine that.

The Browns, who've overlooked the position in recent drafts, took care of that with No. 15 in the first round when they draft speedster Corey Coleman from Baylor after trading down from No. 8 with the Titans.

"We were able to add a very dynamic football player to our team,'' said Jackson, who's accustomed to the likes of A.J. Green and Marvin Jones. "What a tremendous athlete and the suddenness and quickness. We plan on being very dynamic on offense. This guy truly gives us an opportunity to do that.'' ......

...."He's probably one of the most dynamic players in this draft on offense, arguably.''

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2016/04/hue_jackson_on_corey_coleman.html

The question of who was behind those Sashi drafts will never be answered, will it?

I believe it was Depo that said he didn't think Wentz was a fQB. He wasn't making selections, but clearly the guy who did agreed. Then there were the picks we did make, which were, for the most part, horrendous. I don't think it's too much to ask to not have that guy doing the same job for us.

I think Sai Sashi and his group did a lot of good for this team. Overall, the players they did pick weren't among the good.

That's fair. Though, both Dorsey's and Sashi's regimes drafted two Pro Bowlers. But Dorsey did with the extra picks Sashi produced in Chubb and Ward. Sashi has Garrett and Schobert.

The more picks you have, the better your chances to ht on players.mNot sure what that means, but I think it means something.

I some respects, Depodesta and the analytics boys were calling the shots in their very first NFL draft.

One of their established guidelines was gain as many draft picks as you can...that was accomplished by passing over top talent to take lower talent by trading down. It was depo who dissed Wentz and bragged about his first day draft, trading down and picking Coleman who only lasted two season with the Browns.

Coleman traded to the Bills and lasted until their final cuts.

...was picked up by Patriots and lasted just one week.

...was picked up by the Giants a month later and accumulated 5 catches in 8 games in 2018.

...first day of 2019 training camp, Coleman tore an ACL, done for the season.

That was an example of the analytics boys talent evaluation.

In there very first draft, of the 14 draft picks the A-boys made, only 5 played for 4 yrs in the NFL..only 3 as starters.

This is laughable without any context. The majority of those picks were made in Rounds 4 or later, as the overall goal of the draft was to punt draft picks to amass higher quality top round picks for later drafts. Still despite that, they got 5 players that have stuck in the NFL and 3 starters?? 5 contributors with 3 starters in one draft sounds like a pretty successful draft to me.

By comparison, Dorsey in his 2018 masterstroke ... who had the benefit of all those higher round picks, managed to get 3 starters within 6 meaningful contributors. 2 of which (Calloway and Avery) don't even play for us after two years.

I wish we knew the Avery story.

I love the whole Corey Coleman pick as a reason for ineptitude from the front office. It's typically been we screwed up because we could have drafted Michael Thomas...

Corey Coleman, Will Fuller, Josh Doctson, Laquon Treadwell, and Sterling Shepard were all drafted before Michael Thomas.

Corey Coleman and Laquon Treadwell were predominately listed as the top WR in the draft by many scouts. Fuller and Doctson also receiving top WR votes. PFF said Coleman was the best WR in the draft leading up to draft night.

The 2016 draft was also known as one of the weakest WR drafts...

Dorsey misses on Corbett and you hear that you can't hit on every pick. However, the previous regime misses on Coleman and it's a fireable offense....

The double standard is alive and well apparently....

i wonder if hue and sashi would still be here if they wouldve just taken Wentz.

Hue loved him some RG III - "The Earth moved". No way he wanted Wentz.

Dorsey made 17 picks and only 3 starters...sooo..oh and just because they start for us, doesn't mean they are starters....Mack and takitaki and redwine are pure garbage that may or may not turn into contributors..Greedy as well..they all ranked at the bottoms of their positions..especially mack, he ranked lower than UDFA

I get the feeling Wentz would of never succeeded here. We would of had garbage around him, and Hue Jackson pulling a Kizer on him. The Eagles team was stacked for him. Remember, he went down and Foles marched them to a Super Bowl.

The last two years, outside of interceptions, Wentz has had very similar numbers to Baker:

this was one of the stranger things of the year

Do you think that we ever will? Because stopping whatever process dealt him and brought us Coleman and Kizer would save us a bunch of grief IMO.

The Hippocratic thang: "First, do no harm."

Browns Hypocritic oath: "First cripple the roster. . . ."

Trying to joke, but we are all out of purple ink, and the Truth in this scared the bejeezus outta me.

I think you guys are thinking that a lot of these quotes are towards FK, but I think they were explicitly towards John Dorsey. JMO

I highly doubt that was the intention, if any.

But you bring up a fair point (I assume you're getting at Dorsey letting all of our TE talent walk?).

When he said "its not just your way or the highway" he was referring to Dorsey. All reports from KC was he was difficult to work with and did things no matter what anyone said.

Reports are he wanted to bring Freddie back - which was a mistake.

Reports are he had Freddie under his thumb, who was really sitting Higgins? Who was really sitting the Chief? Monken was vocal about Freddie to other teams - you don't think he was vocal to JD?

Dorsey is a football guy, I don't think he got along with the Analytics, and I think he very well could have been very defiant of any of them being presented. It was obviously FK was struggling - why not give playcalling to Monken? Etc. etc.

I think a lot of the presser was about John, more than Freddie.

I agree. These are definitely comments directed towards Dorsey.

Yep. John by all accounts is an egomaniac. Read the reports from KC, and put that with the "I flexed my muscles" comments.

He wanted a HC he could control. He wanted to showcase his #1 QB pick, and probably told Freddie to air the ball out with Baker. I think John had a lot more to do with the disaster of this season than we will ever know.

Ugh... where to start with this...

The LBs (and Redwine) were pressed into service due to injury. Injuries to several starting caliber SSs and Kirksey (the safeties were all brought in by Dorsey, and performed well). Yes Redwine played fairly poorly, but he was also a rookie and was a backup. I think Greedy played just fine for a rookie outside CB. He will get better over his first full offseason. Ward has his durability concerns, and took steps back this season, but he's also young. He'll be fine. I think both of these guys have the talent to round out into a premier starting duo. If not, we also have the other guys (Carrie, Mitchell) to fill in, who I believe were also brought in by Dorsey. Carrie is nothing to get too excited about, and his contract sucks, but Mitchell was a steal.
Randall, for all his headaches, was an absolute jackpot when we landed him. Yes, he's a headcase, but honestly... if our OC was acting like people said he was, then that kinda lowers the bar as far as players' attitudes. Long story short, Berea was a mess, and everyone was off their rocker. Randall is a near-premier FS talent that we got for a guy that was basically already cut.

Dorsey drafted Baker, Ward, Chubb, Corbett, Greedy in the top 2 rounds of his 2 drafts. That's 3 starters and one major bust.

He also drafted Seibert and Chad Thomas (a starter and a guy that got plenty of playing time).

Then there's Taki and Mack, Redwine, Calloway, Avery, Ratley. Those are good picks. Avery was a good player that wasn't getting playing time from our looney coaching staff, and Calloway was a 1st round talent that was had in the 4th (didn't work out, but a good gamble pick).

I agree with this latest post. I just thought that specific tidbit about usage of formations as they contribute to Baker's effectiveness was reserved for Kitchens. Unless you're talking about who we let go in the offseason.

I think ( and this is pure speculation) that John gave a directive to Freddie to feature Baker.

John wanted to prove he was the smartest guy in the room, and wanted his pick to be the face of the team. I think he was telling Freddie to feature the passing the game. I also would not be surprised if John was telling Freddie to go against analytics.

Look at what we say from Freddie last year in his calling of games, compared to this year. SOMETHING changed, and that was John Dorsey having his thump on Freddies career.

Last year, there was no guarantee for Freddie to be here. he could call a game anyway he wanted, and did.

This year, he had a boss to worry about going forward. . . .

Just a theory.

I still think Dorsey's #1 concern was getting Kitchens to remain with Baker.

When no one wanted to have Kitchens forced on them, Dorsey was left with only the decision to promote Kitchens to HC.

I have to admit, I felt Kitchens and Baker had a great feel those final 8 games. I didn't necessarily want him to leave either. However, I didn't interview Kitchens. I couldn't tell you if Kitchens was ready or not. Dorsey should have known. Dorsey either knew he wasn't ready but hired him anyway, or Dorsey had no idea how to hire a HC.

Option 3, Dorsey is so power hungry, he hired Kitchens so he could control him - and go against the analytics department all at the same time.

He knew he wasn't ready, he knows how to hire a coach, but hired him anyway for the above reasons.

Greedy was very bad this year...all those picks you named were not good picks and two of them didn't even last a season...so how were they good picks? I was talking about draft picks, not FA or trades..Chad thomas was ranked in the bottom 10 of all edge defenders...like I said, just because they were starting for us doesn't mean they should or that they are starters...Siebert shanked how many XP? 5...he missed 9 kicks this season, but I'll give him a pass because I think he'll get better. He just needs more exp. My point in all this Dorsey was given a bunch of capital and didn't build much with it, while people are comparing him to being better than Sashi when Sashi was trying to acquire assets for a rebuild..two different directives, yet Dorsey didn't do that much with all he was given.. Sure he added some shiny pieces but forgot to get the glue that holds those pieces together, our depth sucks

I wanted Williams to stay as head coach, and liked Freddie with Baker, but thought that Ken Zampese should stay with Baker as QB coach. A part of the dilemma was who should be OC around Baker. Freddie or Ken. Flip a coin. Freddie had the highest visual impact because he was the OC who made the calls. We now know that Ken Zampese was the power behind the scenes. Live and learn ...

Avery and Calloway were picked in last year's draft. So they did last over a season. I understand if you argue that Calloway was a bad pick because attitude ended up getting him cut loose, which was his MO pre-draft, but I think gambling on 1st-round talent in the 4th is a fine use of the pick. If you don't, I understand but disagree.

Avery did nothing but good things while he was here. Then he was left off the gameday roster until he was traded. Our coaching staff misused a lot of our young talent, and that doesn't make them bad picks/players. Avery made plenty of positive plays, so I'm sticking with a thumbs up for him. Would love to know the story behind him, though... in case I'm wrong.


I'm not sure what you expect out of a rookie CB starting on the outside. I expected a bumpy road but also talent to show through. That was exactly the case with both of our CBs, despite playing in a scheme that might not have fit what they do best. Obviously just 1 season looking at them isn't enough, but he started as a rookie and didn't lose his job. He'll go in as the incumbent next season, with only Mitchell has a potential challenger. He'll be fine.

IDK. Dorsey traded Hyde to start Chubb. Dorsey refused to reach out to Joe Scho, Higgins on the bench for Ratley and Hodges, etc. Dorsey is about his guys over team.

I don't think I can see a coach not playing one of his picks, and Dorsey not having a say about that. Dorsey easily could have told them to play Avery. There is a weird story behind this one.

j/c:



bUtT hE gOt fIrEd bY tHe PaDrEs!

#NotVerified
#GoodOleBoyClub
#TheCocoon

That would be 1 extreme.

Are you saying we should go get the smartest hockey talent guy, smartest baseball personnel guy, smartest basketball coach, and that'll work?

People who think it is extreme are extreme.

Smart people can figure out an industry. We have people in the NFL for their whole careers that are getting it wrong or at best aren't efficient in it, both in coaching and personnel.

Give me someone with 20 yrs Baseball experience attempting to learn the NFL for 4 seasons...

VS...

Someone with decades of experience in the NFL...

...this is a no brainer memp.

Besides, depo is showing that he is not a team player working in the front office, willing to play 'BUTT-BOY'...crying to owner when he doesn't get his way.

The Browns have had nothing but problems in the front office vs the coaching staff since Haslam hired Depo.

Depo record as a NFL talent evaluator speaks for itself.

Using a homosexual slur is very "adulting" of you.

You.
Are.
A.
Joke.

How many other teams use people at top positions that developed their careers solely in baseball or another sport? If there are others, I honestly/sincerely want to know... even though I think I already know (but I always reserve the right to get smarter).

The bigger joke is that he's completely fabricating what he's accusing him of. There's no indication anywhere that Depo went crying to Haslam to get Dorsey fired. The only reports I've seen was that Haslam wanted to can Kitchens after the disastrous results that were apparent to everybody, and that him and Dorsey were directly butting heads after that.

This is about the dumbest post I have ever seen. You have 0 input or idea what goes in the FO, and frankly, all reports are that John Dorsey is not the team player ,maybe pick up an article and read something for once, instead of spewing idiotic hate.

It's always good to reserve the right to get smarter. Some people in NFL analytics didn't even have a sports background. Feel free to read up.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/06/28/nfl-an...anning-charting

the article is two+ years old so I do not know who is around or not. However, it tells you the approach and where the people came from. Analytics is here to stay.

"Adapt or die"

I promise that I will read that article, but I can't right now. It's even queued up for me so I won't forget.

But you say 'people in NFL analytics'. We're talking about top FO positions. Positions of leadership that directly affect the team/people on the field (GM, PP, HC, etc).
Those people, on pro football teams, come from football.

I'd argue "people in analytics" directly affects team/people on the field based on what they are asked to compile. Whether or not they have a FO position or how seriously their info is taken into consideration is something I cannot confirm. Some people in the article were promoted by a Gm that believed in anaytics, some came from outside organizations. If you are asking me if they are currently the Chief Strategy Officer for their respective organization like DePo, I don't think that is the case. And if that is your question, I think it is the wrong one.

Not trying to speak for Mac - only he knows what he meant - but I never thought of "butt-boy" as a gay slur. The (few) times I've used it, it was with the idea that it meant a sychophant, or lackey.

Depo played football in college and interned in the CFL before he ever got into professional baseball.

IMO ... intelligence is an over valued asset, whereas experience is an undervalued asset today.

This was not always the status quo.

Knowledge is more important then potential knowledge, every day of the week ... and twice on Sunday's.

I don't think that one has to be a former player, but experience is key, and experience is not something that can be purchased with intelligence.

Which one of you attempted to imply that butt boy means anything but a "BROWN NOSER"?

No one on this board has ever heard me use a gay slur against anyone...never.

It's a metaphor / idiom ... at least it used to be *L*

Since Haslam added Depodesta to his front office, there has been nothing but friction between the front office and coaches on the field.

Depodesta did run to Haslam and anyone not believing that is how Haslam came up with the idea of limiting Dorsey's power within the frachise...you folks just don't want to admit the obvious in an attempt to portray Depodesta as something he is not.

After just 4 yrs of NFL experience, Depo believes he is ready to expand his power over talent acquisition of NFL player and HCing talent.

Anyone remember when it was implied that the Haslams were taking a step back, away from the franchise...THAT WAS A LIE!

The bottom line as to why Haslam is in love with Depodesta...it gives Jimmy a back channel enabling him to keep his fingers all over the franchise while claiming he is not.

FL...were you the one implying I was using Butt-Boy as a gay slur?

This is called walking it back.

It's a common gay slur.

Maybe you meant it as a compliment?

link


brown noser
synonyms - similar meaning - 4

50
butt kisser


blue-eyed boy


butt-boy


brown-noser

I strongly suggest you click the link I posted!

And ^this^ is called a straw man.


straw man
noun:
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

ocd...try this link...

https://www.powerthesaurus.org/butt-boy/synonyms


butt-boy
synonyms - similar meaning


yes-man


n.
informal
doormat


n.
sock puppet


exp.
ass kisser


n.
slang
,
vulgar
ass-kisser


n.
slang
,
vulgar
flunkey


n.
offensive
,
slang
flunky


n.
slang
,
offensive
kiss-ass


n.
slang
,
vulgar
lackey


n.
follower
running dog


n.
informal
stooge


n.
informal
,
follower
toadie


n.
informal
suck-up


n.
informal
,
american
sycophant


n.
follower
yes man

If its such common knowledge, surely one as yourself can provide a link to that information.....

Dorsey is the reason his power was to be limited, and Dorsey's alone.

Once again, please show me a link of Depo coming out and saying this. Otherwise, please tell me when you received your mind reading powers.

Its been reported, over and over, Depo's title and duties are going to stay the same. He will be apart of the committee to hire the HC, as he was last time around.

I think you need to keep your fingers off the whacky stuff, as you are over the rails.

willie...did you listen to Haslam's presser>

I posted the link for you..

At the 9:55 mark Haslam begins talking about how decisions are made by the Browns and he clearly put Depo at the top of food chain as being one of the core front office types "he listens to".

Also for everyone...Haslam's presser, he never once indicated that any decision made by the Browns has been made "one individual"?

...he spoke of and named all of those who are part of the decision making process. All these claims that past HCs decided on what coaches might be hired or which players were drafted was never done by a HC or any individual, other than Jimmy Haslam, who drafted Manziel and hired Hue Jackson on his own.



link

No! Just the opposite mac

1. Its hysterical watching u get eaten up by your PC friends over the butt boy post ... *LOL* ...

2. Depo ain’t the problem .... the thief and Dee are ...

3. We best pray were wrong cause we’ve gone from the factory of sadness to the factory of analytics .... at the end of the day there One in the same ...

Being the league’s analytical guinea pig oughta end well ... ...

DID YOU LISTEN TO IT??? He clearly said his role and title are NOT changing. He never had authority over the roster, and still does not have authority over the roster. Yet you posted he did. Your making up garbage to suit your own hate and agenda. Get off it, be gone.

lol, analytical guinea pig huh..someone better tell the rest of the NFL they aren't using analytics..older article, but :

http://www.theq5.com/power-rankings-for-nfl-analytics/





Power Rankings for NFL Analytics
Analytics, Moneyball, Metrics…..

The bottom line in professional sport is and always will be the scoreboard. Two numbers compared to each other when the contest has concluded. Pretty simple. Not too confusing.

Attention: NFL Analytics Power Rankings Below

What is analytics? A few definitions:

1) The method of logical analysis or the field of data analysis.

2) The discovery, interpretation, and communication of meaningful patterns in data.

Described as especially valuable in areas rich with recorded information, it relies on the simultaneous application of statistics, computer programming and operations research to quantify performance. Analytics often favors data visualization to communicate insight.

Each day, NFL teams are trying to apply analytics to on-field data in an attempt to predict and improve their output – the scoreboard. This gets into the areas of both predictive and reflective analytics. They study past historical data to research potential trends, analyze the effects of certain decisions or events and to evaluate the performance. Analytics is multidisciplinary. It includes math and statistics, models to analyze data and visualizations as a means of communication. The insights are used to guide decision-making and help recommend courses of action.

Do analytics have the attention of teams, fans and ownership? Yes, but it is the “how” they are attempting to leverage it that catches my attention. Mike Tanier’s recent article at Bleacher Report.com brings a few insights to the table.

The key issue is the interface between the coaches, executives and the analytics. How do these groups communicate and do they trust each other? If there is an advantage to be had, people will do it. If the road looks as if it is going to be bumpy and long – it probably will not be traveled by all involved. The road can look that way due to the barriers of communication and personalities. Analytics people are dominantly left brained while coaches are dominantly right brained (more on this at the end)

Now presenting…..

POWER RANKINGS FOR NFL ANALYTICS DEPARTMENT (version 1.0)

Teams, Leadership and Comments: Rankings based on personnel, team comments and level of influence.

Note: Research for this list has revealed many clubs that no longer have people with a title of analytics. Examples include the Packers, Seahawks and Ravens. Others have just formally begun the process – most recently the Colts. Do enjoy and this will show up again as more information unfolds during training camp.

1) New England Patriots: Ernie Adams

Conducts football research, including statistical evaluations, since 2000. The best football background of any player in this area, Adams spent more than 10 years as a coach and pro personnel director. Lives in the shadows – think 2007 Spygate scandal. (More here)

The late Browns owner Art Modell notably quipped “I’ll pay anyone here $10,000 if they can tell me what Ernie Adams does.” He does good work and it matters to the Patriots. Industry leader that we all know little about. Exactly how the Patriots want it.

2) Denver Broncos: Mitch Tanney

Reigning Super Bowl champs – you get instant cred in this pole especially if you are on the headset with the head coach during games. Can an “analytics guy” put himself in a better position? Not really. Rising star who could ride this current wave far… very far. He is a football guy with a degree in mathematics.

Kubiak: “I’ve got Mitch out there with me. If we’re moving the ball or we’re doing formatting, I’ve got Mitch with me because he’s going to be on the headset, so we’re trying to practice. Everything’s going to happen on game day.”

From Broncos.com: A former quarterback at Monmouth College, Tanney was named the 2005 Midwest Conference Offensive Player of the Year as a senior in addition to finishing as a runner-up for Division III Player of the Year.

From 2006-09, Tanney worked as an assistant coach at Monmouth while continuing his playing career in various professional football leagues (AFL, AF2, IFL, Swedish SuperSeries).

Tanney graduated from Monmouth Summa [censored] Laude in 2006 with a Bachelor of Arts in Mathematics and Spanish. He received his MBA from the University of Iowa in 2011.

Elway before hiring Tanney: “I’m a numbers guy. I know the power they have, but we’re still trying to develop a role for it. I have a lot of résumés from people who want to help us put that together, but I would say we understand it can be a tool and we’re trying to develop what it will be and what it will do for us.”

3) Kansas City Chiefs: Mike Frazier

Title: Statistical Analysis Coordinator.

Mike Frazier finished his third year as the Chiefs Statistical Analysis Coordinator. He arrived in Kansas City in 2013 after spending 10 seasons in the same role with the Philadelphia Eagles. He assists Head Coach Andy Reid and the Chiefs coaching staff with player statistics, situational analysis, as well as team and league-wide trends.

Frazier joined the Eagles following his graduation from The College of Wooster in Wooster, Ohio (1999-03). While completing his undergraduate degree, Frazier held internships with Smith Barney and Wachovia Securities. He also interned with the Philadelphia Eagles in 2002 where he worked with Reid, Chiefs Spread Game Analyst/Special Projects coach Brad Childress and a number of current Chiefs assistant coaches who served on the Eagles’ coaching staff.

4) Cleveland Browns: Paul DePodesta and company

Title: Chief Strategy Officer

All eyes on Cleveland. This is the litmus test for full organizational buy-in. Back in January, the Browns hired analytics guru Paul DePodesta away from the Mets and named him Chief Strategy Officer.

Mix in an impatient owner Jimmy Haslam and a new head coach Hue Jackson. When Jackson was hired this offseason, he became the team’s fourth head coach in the five years Haslam has owned the team. Hardly a “build for the long-term” mentality.

The concern from those in the analytics world is that if the Browns fail the rest of the league has their justification for staying away.

New coach Hue Jackson said during the combine that analytics is “not going to drive our organization,” Like many coaches in the profession, Jackson is a go-by-his-gut coach – the exact opposite of what DePodesta represents. This should be interesting.

5) 49ers: Paraag Marathe

Title: Chief Strategy Officer and Executive Vice President of Football Operations.

Paraag Marathe got his break with the 49ers in 2001 when coach Bill Walsh and exec Terry Donahue hired him based on his work as part of a consulting team providing a data-oriented approach to the draft. He went all the way to team president in 2013 but has been demoted late in 2015. Still must think he will have a chance to work with Chip and innovate. Great minds rise in this industry – his rise is impressive and his fall may just be temporary.

6) Oakland Raiders: George Li

Title: Football Operations Statistical Analyst.

Before his hiring in 2012, he spent five years as lead researcher at the NFL Network and also worked one year as a researcher at ESPN. A degree in business administration completes his background. Oakland is on the rise – how much influence does George have? Time will tell.

His fit in the organization is good – he sits with coaches in meetings but he is not a part of the coaching staff. Known to do great work and speaks the language of the coaches. Are the Raiders on the verge of contending? Not much credit is given to the analytics but we’ll see if that changes. The voice of the organization may change as the W’s start stacking up in Oakland.

7) Pittsburgh Steelers: Karim Kassam

Title: Analytics & Football Research Coordinator

“It’s the way all sports are going,” Kassam, a four-year assistant professor of social and decision sciences at CMU and a Harvard grad, told ESPN.com. “It’s the way the league is going. They decided it was time.”

Kassam works in the scouting department under general manager Kevin Colbert and will provide information for coaches during the season. One of his first projects is evaluating college players, “trying to dig up what numbers are going to help us predict who is going to be successful,” Kassam said. He knows very little about football at this point but the next 18 months will be critical. Word is that Mike Tomlin is not big on analytics so Karim’s fit into the coaching staff may not be natural due to several factors. Word on the street is that Tomlin gives the vibe that he doesn’t need to have validation of what he already knows. We’ll see how this goes in the upcoming season.

8) Philadelphia Eagles: Alec Halaby

Title: Special assistant to the general manager

Alec Halaby is the special assistant to the general manager hired in 2012 who now holds the position of Vice President of Football Operations and Strategy. Halaby is a 2009 Harvard Economics graduate. His fit within the organization is confusing to those on the inside. His rules are different from anyone else as he is not a coach or scout. His influence away from the GM is questionable. He has seen a few coaches come and go but he remains – the depth of his connection with the new coaching staff is unknown.

9) Jacksonville Jaguars: Tony Kahn

Title: Senior Vice President, Football Technology & Analytics

With the player and coaching data crunched by many teams, Tony Khan’s department takes an analytic approach to fan experience and injury prevention. Perhaps that is why the Jags have limited the time rookies spend on the field in mini-camp. Influence most notably linked to his familial ties within the organizational structure. Many think a good year in Jacksonville is possible which will help his rank but many sources attribute the drafting of Luke Joeckel at #2 in 2013 to work with analytics. That does not sound good for a player who may move positions after 3 years in the NFL.

No question that Tony is not a “football guy” and his family ties would only seem to make it harder to work with him.

10) Buffalo Bills: Michael Lyons

Buffalo Bills formally created an analytics department in 2013 hiring Michael Lyons to head the department. While Lyons’ work will provide additional data to the football department it will be far from the sole determining factor in making football decisions.

“It’s another layer of information,” said Brandon. “Really it is just another spoke in the wheel of providing as much quality in depth information we can to make. The whole concept will be bringing the analytics element to everything that we do.”

This is my favorite description of the analytics fit within a football organization – a spoke in the tire. The Bills don’t seem to be moving in the right direction on the field or with things off the field. The recent injury to Shaq Lawson highlights their misfortune. Are analytics helping or just a spoke nobody looks at?

11) Indianapolis Colts: John Park

New kid on the block – just hired and his NFL experience is limited. He spent the last four months as an intern in the NFL Player Engagement department. Before that, he spent time with the Browns as a remote independent contractor, working as a game charter.

He graduated from Columbia after spending four years in the music industry, obtaining a degree in cultural anthropology. Park then worked as an actuary, consulting with Alvarez & Marshal’s and PricewaterhouseCoopers.

Park has no title attached to his role, such as director or V.P. or anything like that. As a result, it’s unclear how much sway he’ll have with G.M. Ryan Grigson. This is probably “the guy at the end of the hall” until some time passes.

12) Tampa Bay Bucs: Tyler Oberly

Tyler Oberly comes to the Bucs from Houston, where he wrote for a site called TheSidelineView.com, applying an electric engineering background to football applications. He was a speaker at the MIT Sloan Sports Conference. Not much known here.

13) Atlanta Falcons: Todd Nielson

Title: Football Research and Development

Completely unknown, hence last on the list. Falcons claim to use analytics but outside of Blank talking about the big picture – the exactness of what they may be doing is very unknown.

Why do certain teams seem to make it work while others don’t? Several factors exist.

Football people know the how important an advantage is. Better personnel is an advantage. Home field is an advantage. Sound coaching and training is an advantage. The 1963 Chargers found an advantage for physical performance. Since deemed illegal.

Reminds me of a few beauties:

If you are not cheating, you’re not trying and it’s only cheating if you get caught.

Win if you can, lose if you must but always, always cheat.

Back on topic….

Analytics presents an opportunity for an advantage in the game of football. Advantages are good. Organizations see this clearly but the issue deals with the people involved. Football coaches can generally be described as a group that doesn’t enjoy balancing the checkbook. Relationship and people oriented – creative: right brained. Computer science people: left brained. (More here) It is the successful mix of these groups that will ultimately make analytics successful.

These two groups of people are not usually drawn to each other… extrapolate out in a football office where winning and losing determines job status. The analytics guy needs to be in the same boat as the coaches if you want a good working relationship. That is just a fact. Everybody LIKES winning but people NEED jobs. Most memorable quote from my time in college coaching: “You want to win enough but not too much or they’ll keep expecting it too often.”

One is that a key element involves the difference between correlation and causation. Lightly speaking, correlation refers to any of a broad class of statistical relationships involving dependence. Causality is the link of one process (the cause) with another (the effect), where the first is understood to be partly responsible for the second, and the second is dependent on the first. More food for thought can be found in the phrase “correlation does not imply causation.”

Find an analytics guy who knows football a little bit and this will have a chance to work because football people don’t really know analytics at all. Analytics people must be able to meet football people in the football environment. The attraction is what happens between the white lines not on a computer screen.

Bill has been using data in NE for years, and seeks out others in the offseason for their data and opinions. The dude literally picks the brains of everyone, uses ever piece of data he can get.

heck he went to Lincoln Riley for insight into his offense last year.

The data is here, it has been here, and its not going anywhere.

Brian Burke and Aaron Schatz..they basically brought analytics to football....in 2002. Schatz also debunked the establish the run based on analytics, had a book in 1988 about the hidden game in the game. Oh and the term DVOA?...Schatz..first team benefitting in NFL...the most successful team in history..NE patriots since 2002..but yeah..analytics don't work and one of the most famous to use it successfully must have no clue how to do that. Depo must GO (purple font implied)

I wont think to speak for mac, but I think that this post was the effect of all of the speculations regarding Depo, that have now been put to rest in JH presser.

U think im a MORON? ...

Analytics has its place ... DUH ...

The thief is gonna put analytics at the forefront of everything ... its going to be front and center in all aspects of our org ...

I bet analytics is at or near the bottom of BBs list when it comes to judging how good a player will fit his system ...

It has its place ... right now the thief is like a kid in a candy store when it come to analytics ...

All we know for sure about depo and his analytics so far is he didn’t think Wentz was a franchise qb and he thought CC was the best we cpming out of that draft ... small sample size but those aren’t MINOR MISSES ...

Sadly most of the whacked out theories being promoted on here lately are the same.

Hmmm depo had no say in corey coleman. Have you actually watched wentz since his injury...he's not elite and he wasn't worth where he was drafted given how few games he's played. Thats what depo said, and thats what Hue said and hue said HE wanted a wr asap. Its hilarious how out of touch and what people believe when they break out the pitchforks

Sorry: bad word in the video.

Depo said he was going to be injured so often he wouldn’t be elite .... ...

YO WILL ... ... u were curious as to what i meant by low hanging fruit .... here’s some ...

Does that help? ... *L*

“We are trying to build a great organization over a long period of time,” DePodesta said Thursday night, “and tonight was the perfect example of that. We got a player we really wanted who we think is a great fit for us now, and yet we also have a few more bites at the apple.” Paul DePodesta comments on Corey Coleman pick.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/05/04/cleveland-browns-nfl-draft-hue-jackson-paul-depodesta-sachi-brown

I don't know if it's the case, but:

In my opinion anyone who thinks football and baseball are even REMOTELY similar needs to be shown the door! Yesterday!

They are in no way the same, baseball is so much individual performances, vs, averages, while football is so much fitting cogs into a wheel and getting the most out of the wheel,
that's just on the field,

The way you assemble a group is totally different too,

Footballs group is WAY MORE reliant on keeping the group together and not making changes.

For what it's worth, the Browns have been ending themselves for years now by chasing change for the hope of a slight improvement, at the expense of building on any foundation they have in place,

But look at all the other NFL teams, they keep their foundation, and improve on what they are doing, and that's where a lot of them get their success,
a small few get their success at genius outthinking, but not at the expense of keeping their group together.

They used those bites wisely ... Ricardo Louis ... Seth DeValve ... Jordan Payton and Higgs ...

Maybe the goal of the other WR they chose was to make the CC pick not look so bad ... ...

At least they did that in a WR draft full of highly rated WR’s ...

It was the weakest WR class for years and they went heavy on mid round WR's.

People seem to forget facts when it doesn't line up with the story they're trying to sell.

j/c

Just a general comment - anyone thinking we, as fans with 9-5 jobs elsewhere and perhaps a history of playing (or coaching) sports at H.S or even college - know more and understand more than a guy or guys who are professional sports team analysts ... smacks to me of arrogance. The idea that Depo has been part of this organization for a number of years and would fail to grasp the fundamental differences between building a Baseball team vs a Football team ... again, smacks of arrogance. I don't know if he and others put in 40 hour weeks, 60 hour weeks or 10 hour weeks .... but I do know that as smart, intelligent people capable of learning new concepts .... they will certainly have at least as much of an understanding as anyone on this board.

Personally I don't read into the changes and the presser that Depo has grown in power or importance. I think his voice and opinion are in the same place they were before. I don't believe the Browns are running their organization on statistics and data more than most other teams in the NFL.

jmo

We can only make observations based on the evidence in front of us. When you get paid millions a year to do a job accountability stands for something.

Claiming everything someone did was good and everything that was bad is the fault of someone elses doesn't cut it.

Especially when you have a direct quote from him stating otherwise.

Do u watch the games on Sunday? ... *L* ...

I think its arrogant that U think Depo in 4 years knows as much as guys that been doing it for 20 - 30 years ... actually I’d call that stupid .... experience count for nothing? ...

I wonder what analytics says about that ... *L*

Not a response to you D.
There is a place for analytics and most clubs employ a analytics group.

I can see it's use in play calling down and distance. There are plenty of places the data can be useful.

But scouting? I don't get that. Baseball a 18 year old goes to the minors plays rookie ball, moves up through the system A ball, AA, ball AAA ball. Lots of numbers to crunch. Competition level is a known.

Football a high school player goes to college plays 2, 3, maybe 4 years. College competition is all over the place. So, at 20 to 22 he gets drafted. What can you know? Why so many misses in the draft? Yes, there are the measurables. Combine numbers. Yes, in contracts and age analysis.

Because there is not enough relevant data. Unlike baseball.

Very hard to forecast a player at 21 with two years of college into the NFL. Combine numbers are not enough. Limited game tape. Varying levels of competition.
And the hardest part; measuring how bad the kid wants it.

I have no problem leaning on analytics where applicable.

But you can not run a team with data alone. Scouting is still king in the draft process.

Yeah as really think that it is about Scouting. As well as having experience. That as in NFL experience. Knowing what you do and been there and done that. Yeah Depodesta may had made some mistakes. But just let him do his job for the time being.

He's just chapped because his football guy couldn't get the big decisions right. Dorsey could have been good had he learned from his KC mistakes. He wouldn't listen to anybody.

Depo wasn't working behind the scenes, Dorsey was. His comment about those guys didn't bring in football players....well Depo was the butt of that comment. Dorsey didn't like the fact Haslam values Depos opinion. Dorsey couldn't have another voice in the room. It's why he hired Freddie. He could control him.

Dorsey got fired from KC because he couldn't get along with another football guy...the coach.

The truth is surfacing...and in the truth, Depo remains and Dorsey is gone.

I think Dorsey made good decisions. I also think he was a tool.

As far as DePodesta:

I agree with all of that. Dorsey was a good scout. I don't want Depo doing much more than what he does.

I am not advocating that Depo become the new commander-in-chief.

He is a process guy. Let him run the process. I am not looking for him to be the next GM or super scout making the draft selections.

I just think his voice is important and needs to be valued. Dorsey didn't value his opinion at all.

Look at who is still here and who is gone. A smart person who see's the owner values Depos opinion would try to at least act like he valued the opinion rather than demean the guy.

That is office politics 101. You can't be a manager if you can't manage your way around the office, let alone the building of a billion+ dollar business.

You have to have some skills above and beyond being able to scout a guard prospect.

Dorsey was fired from two straight jobs were he did a pretty good job at accumulating talent. That tells us something about Dorsey the person.

Dorsey is best suited in a scout type role and not as a manager (and not just b/c of his people skills or lack thereof), clearly.

Dorsey brought in some nice talented pieces, no doubt. He has no idea how to put it all together.

Perhaps Dorsey has character flaws, but when you aimlessly acquire players and go rogue and draft players the organization doesn't agree on, that's a problem. That's Dorsey.

So is his scouting "machinery" still in place for us? He did a good job of looking under the rocks overall.

Browns have had problems in the front office since 99.. It's not Depo.

Oh high and mighty one - - - please show me where I said or even insinuated that..... Oh, that's right, you can't.

Yes. I know there are reports about Hightower being gone or him taking over at Miami U as director of football or some such title.

As far as the scouting department, most scouts work on one year deals that run through the next years draft. Those guys are still out scouting and writing their evaluations.

The cross checkers...the Sr. scouts and scouting directors might be on longer deals, so all of that remains at this point.

jc...

Pointing out that Haslam had already promoted Depodesta giving him GM powers, rewarding him for being his personal brown-noser, allow Depodesta to be in charge of hiring the next HC.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see why you think he's gotta go. Remember, he didn't want Freddie...

What are these GM powers that Depodesta have ?





Mac... Who else is going to hire the HC ?





Not seeing any reward..Only thing I can make out of it..
Is Jimmy has decided to listen to Depodestos ideas a bit more. Nothing wrong with listening to your Strategy officer. He might have a good input or maybe not. Nothing wrong with listening better.

The ironic thing is that we are having these internal issues because we are NOT listening to Depodesta, not because we are listening to him.

daman...did you really believe that the Haslams took a step back, away from having their fingers involved in running the franchise?

First, for the Browns, Depodesta IS NOTHING MORE THAN "PART TIME", living in San Diago, commuting to Cleveland as needed. The very year (2016) Haslam hired Depo to play MONEYBALL with the Browns franchise, Depo and his wife launched a new business venture, Sports Mind Institute, using Depo's one time success in baseball and the fact that he had now been hired to work his magic in the NFL, to build a Championship team for Haslam, ON THE CHEAP.

Depodesta, with his 4 freaking years of NFL experience is JimBos #1 influence over this franchise and he does it by asking everyone to have their weekly and daily meetings to extract information from others in the front office, THEN RUNNING TO THE BOSS WHEN SOMEONE ISN'T PLAYING BY MONEYBALL RULES.

Most of us who have lived long enough recognize the front office game Depo is playing...and the butt-boy/brown-noser that depohe is, getting the football guys fired so he can continue to play MONEYBALL with one of the most HISTORIC NFL FRANCHISES...EVER!

Depo's MONEYBALL RECORD SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. The only time the Browns began digging out of Depodesta's 1-31 record was when we hired a FOOTBALL GUY WITH 25 YRS OF NFL EXPERIENCE.

Depodesta is nothing more than who his record indicates he is. I view Depodesta as just another BSER/BROWN NOSER, looking out for himself at the Cleveland Browns (FANS) EXPENSE.

You do realize we were 1-31 because we DIDN'T listen to Depodesta, right?

device...kind of hard to choke down Depo's football record for his first 2 yrs playing MONEYBALL with an NFL franchise, ISN'T IT?

What are you trying to say? That you're willing to blame anyone for the 1-31 record except for person(s) who actually caused it?

The only thing missing from that post is "poor clowns, poor clowns indeed".

I gave you some props when we found out that Depo was leading the coaching search, but holy jebus.

No Mac. Depo is leading the process. Haslam is back to making the final decision.

I keep trying to help you here but you keep saying silly stuff.

Depo isn't the GM. He doesn't have GM power.

Mac, I'll give you one thing, you certainly have scorching hot takes. However,....

Note, how Haslam states DePo will be leading the proceess and not hiring the HC.





*I can't believe I'm bothering with this nonsense. DePo would tell me this is an inefficient use of my time.

Isn't, hasn't, wasn't, never will be. But for some reason he has become the focus of a lot of angst. I don't get it.

Are you talking about Mayfield again?

peen...Haslam loves his money and it is no accident that the Browns have lead the NFL in cap space in 6 of the 7 yrs Haslam has owned the team.

JIMMY HASLAM IS A CHEAP-ASS...he can't run from his record as a NFL owner and the reason he is so in love with Depodesta is that MONEYBALL IS BASED ON A "CHEAP-ASS" management concept.

Despite living through the worst losing in Browns NFL franchise history playing "CHEAP ASS", Haslam wants to return to MONEYBALL, with Depodesta leading his franchise.

Despite winning more in the last two seasons compared to the previous two seasons, Haslam decided to return to CHEAP FOOTBALL via Depodesta's MONEYBALL.

I'm convinced that the Haslam Clan has found a way to skim those under the cap funds for themselves.

Peen, honestly, take a look at the way the Saints operate their franchise, using the cap to build their football team and putting their support behind their football people.

THAT IS HOW A NFL FOOTBALL FRANCHISE IS MEANT TO MANAGED...not the way Haslam is.

Peen, I know you are not going to like it because you are bias in favor of the good ole Tenn. Boys, but Jimmy Haslam is the worst owner in the NFL...and he did it to himself.

Just making more BS up?

Nobody, and I mean nobody has even hinted that Depo is in charge of the next HC hire. The only thing he has been put in charge of is the search.

Interesting.

I think the one thing that is blatantly obvious here is that Jimmy is NOT a cheap-ass.

One other thing... "moneyball" isn't about saving money and being cheap.


You're striking out all over the place...

I think it's time for mac to call Depo's lawyer and get to the bottom of this.

rish...don't worry, I think they already know how to contact me!

At the rate you're going, if they don't now they soon will.

No Pit...it got personal beginning yesterday!

Very serious question for everyone...if you were one of the top coaching candidates, would you work Jimmy, Dee and Depo?

We don't have to answer. The candidates themselves will do that for us. The only one who turned down the Browns is Matt Rhule and also turned down other teams.

I think Jimmy and Dee are fine and get a bad rap. Its clear they want to build a winner and they are trying to. I think they would love nothing more than to just sit back and watch the team be successful. But when you have billions on the line you don't just sit back and let it be bad, no owner would. His problem is he hasn't made the good hire. He thought he did with Dorsey and Haslam sat back and let Dorsey run the show and it blew up, so now he has to step in and do it again. Try to find something that works. As far as Depo, hell yes..dude is razor sharp and a process guru. He's a pioneer and one of the best at something the whole league is moving to rapidly.

I must say that I would rather have Depodesta picking our next coach than the Haslams or Dorsey.
The Haslams chose Hue against the advice of Depodesta who wanted Sean McDermott.
Dorsey chose Kitchens while Depo wanted Stafansky.
At least if Depo makes this hire the coach has a good chance of getting along with the analytics staff which seems to be the power in the Browns organization.
More than being a baseball guy Depodesta is a numbers guy who factors in all data to make the most logical decision.
Myself being a Browns fan for 60 years I prefer old school football guys to coach and run the Browns but I realize most if not all teams rely on analytics to some extent.
After all as Browns fans we have no choice.

lead...how many times do I have to post the reality of how progression works in the NFL....?

With the 49ers, it took freaking Kyle Shanahan 3 years to progress to point to where the 49ers are in today!!!!!

Not only that but, Kyle Shanahan's team regressed between Years 1 and 2, going 6-10 his first season to 4-12 his second season!!!

Yet the 49ers GM and ownership were willing to give Shanahan a 3rd season to see what he could do.

In Cleveland, under Haslam and Depodesta, NO ONE GETS 3 YEARS TO TURN THE BROWNS AROUND!!!!!!!!

They will now.

In fairness, the Niners "regressed" because Garoppolo started only 3 games in his 2nd season in San Francisco.

shanahan is a coach, dorsey a gm...you act like progression is on a specific timeline, it isn't. It happens faster with successful decisions. Dorsey didn't make enough of those and the biggest one being Kitchens, therefore he's no longer here..

Sure would. Their money spends just as well as everyone else's.

If Depodesta makes the hire he just might get a 3rd season or more.

Another example, Sean McDermott.

9-7 (playoffs)
6-10 (rookie QB)
10-6 (playoffs)

(Note: Both of the above coaches were hired before the GM.)

I am of the opinion that none of the top guys will come here as long as Depo has Haslam's ear.
It's difficult enough to do the job without having to look over your shoulder and worry what the analitics guy is saying to the owner.

OCD....with Jimmy, Dee and Depdesta, is there anyone who believes that they can focus on "REALITY"...or simply base all their decisions on "CAP SPACE" available at the end of the year.

I don't know how anyone can believe that "CAP SPACE" available at the end of the year is not driving this franchise.

This makes sense because you lack a fundamental understanding of what cap space is in the NFL.

The Haslams are bad owners. Probably the worst in the NFL at this point. They are not cheap.

cfr...we have a difference of opinion...

Is "MONEYBALL" based on using a NFL franchises cap space to build a winner....like the Saints utilize their cap space?

...or is the cap space meant to be hoarded by owner who can still CON the franchise's fans into buying season tickets for a BAD PRODUCT???

I'm not sure what cap space has to do with anything.

Also, the term Moneyball is being misused by you a ton. The Oakland A's didn't have money to spend (the Browns do) so they sought out market inefficiencies to build their teams because it was the cheapest way to do so.

Moneyball = market inefficiencies

What a boring thread.

No doubt, and their results to this point are bad, but not due to lack of effort or being cheap.

I think Mac thinks they can keep the money, and doesn't understand that over a (my numbers may be off somewhat) 5 year average teams have to spend maybe 85% of the cap space on player salaries. Teams can't simply choose to operate at say 60% forever. If they do, they have to pay the NFLPA or the NFL...I believe the NFLPA who will stick it in to player benefit funds.

Mac, don't have a hemorrhage. It looks like DePodesta resides in your head. Do you hear him talking to you?

I don't find it boring, and I certainly get no enjoyment of seeing mac go 'around the bend'...

cfr...tell everyone where the Browns rank in cap space used over the last 7 yrs.

Like I said before, you lack a fundamental understanding of what cap space is in the NFL.

(I don't know the answer to your question.)

cfr....ok...you don't want to answer this question...

...TRY THIS, compare the Browns use of their cap space (including the percentage of cap the Browns use) to another NFL team such as the NE Saints (and what percentage of cap space) they use to build their team into a winner.

In 2019 we had the 5th ranked highest team salary.

I did answer the question.



This seems like a lot of work.

Again, you don't even know what cap space is. Using it as a tool for your argument against DePodesta is like a person trying to use a fish to hammer in nails into their wall.

Here Mac. Read and learn. I plugged in to Google and it pulled up a Bengals article, but the rules are the same for all.

Earlier, I was wrong, teams have to spend 89% of the cap as averaged over 4 seasons.

The Browns have averaged that.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/9/6/17600618/nfl-salary-cap-2018-everything-to-know-about-salaries


I hope that helps you because you are sounding pretty weird.