Since the Haslams bought the franchise , this is the most dysfunctional franchise in NFL And maybe all of the major 3 sports leagues. Paying out 55 million dollars to past coaches. 6 different GMs. Team winning % less than .400 And not one season over .500 Yet theres a section of fans that still believe In them. Why is that ? He has concreted himself as the worst owner In the NFL. Haslam as created a culture of ego and Selfishness in Berea. I think he's a worse owner than Art Modell.
I don’t see any support for the Haslams. I think just about everyone knows what a dumpster fire they are. Hell, I think they even know it by the statement they made.
I don’t ‘support’ any of them... per se. I don’t listen to pressers by coaches, FO, owners, players, etc. none of them have earned my ear. I rarely read any interviews. I’ve been over the Browns in that way for a few years. I don’t buy gear. I don’t travel to see games. I do buy the Sunday Ticket each year so I can watch the games. That’s the extent of my fandom. Ultimately I have no say. I’m a Browns fan. It’s like an abusive relationship. But it’s love. Haslem’s or not.
If the Haslam's keep messing up the way they do, its only a matter of time before they move the team.
Messing up all the time is what really killed Art Modell, messing up coaches and big contracts which Haslam seems to be doing at an accelerated rate.
Haslam is literally running the Browns into the ground...if he don't get things right in the next 5-7 years, you will see the team moved due to financial problems just like Model. Haslam keeps paying people not to work for him. Its insane.
Folks don't realize that the Browns lease on First Energy Statium expires in 2029, that's 9 years from now, that's not long. The fact the city seems to be at odds with Haslam, and the Haslam's want a new stadium don't bode well.
This has all the makings of "The Move" all over again, and Haslam is a worse snake than Modell, he will move this team in a heartbeat and won't think twice about it if he don't get what he wants, and even then may just move it anyways.
the NFL didn't even want a team back in Cleveland in the 1st place, and I sometimes wonder if Haslam keeps blowing things up on purpose trying to slowly kill interest off in the team so when he does move it 9 years down the road few will care.
Salt Lake City, Portland, and San Antonio are all places the NFL would love to put a team at.
Be watchful, if the Browns don't somehow figure out how to be so sucessful that the Haslam can't move the team, I fear we will see another move in 9-10 years...
The Haslams know no matter the product they put on the field the value just increases for the franchise. They treat the Browns like it's a hobby. Let's not forget the Haslams are from Tennessee. They have no invested emotional ties to Northeast Ohio While Dave Logan and Ricky Feacher were catching balls from Sipe.....Jimmy Haslam was trading handshakes with Johnny Majors and Jimmy Streater. Can Jimmy Haslam really relate to the 46 year Season ticket holder from Valley View or Maple Heights ?
This comment from the article proves pretty true I think:
Quote:
I think this story mask the fact that Northeast Ohio as the home of 3 major sports franchises is coming to an end. No money to support them. The last time we faced this problem was in 1999 when Baltimore stole the Browns. Baltimore did it with incentives that Cleveland and Northeast Ohio couldn't offer.
This areas economic fortunes have declined since 1999, and the land availability for downtown development for a new Browns stadium doesnt exist.
Solution; Browns relocate. Cities that can support a football team will put everything on the table to get them, their win-loss record notwithstanding.
Remember the lowly Cleveland Browns whose owner couldnt win it all in Cleveland, moving his team and holding a Super Bowl trophy in Baltimore just a few years later.
Is this a loss for Cleveland and Northeast Ohio? Yea, but when the choice is between basic necessities and the luxury of a professional sports team, its like everything else, if you cant afford it, you go without it, and we longer can afford it.
Look at Louisville as a possibility.
I really believe if Haslam doesn't get his shiny new stadium with tons of property around it for parking and development like teams like Dallas, and NE, etc are getting, that come 2029 or 2030 he is going to move the team.
Cleveland & Pittsburgh have lost population the last 10 years, and the tax money isn't where it used to be, and family gross incomes are near the lowest in the country.
I don't see how Cleveland can afford what Haslam is going to want in a few years. Were talking close to a Billion dollars in new stadium and property. Another city promises to give it to him, there is no way Cleveland will be able to raise the Capital to counter, Cleveland area is already taxed as it is, and their credit card is nearly maxed.
My gut tells me this won't bode wlel and it makes me so sad at the same time...I don't want to see another move in my lifetime
I was a season ticket holder..Thanks to Peen and Columbusdawg.
I stopped going to games after the second home game. It had nothing to do with the Haslams. Mostly because of the poor coaching and lack of effort.
The Haslams pretty much do how I would do.. Get mad and change it up until it gets right.. May not be the right way of doing things..But it's kind of the way I would.
I don't know what the right answer or the right way is. But I do know they seem to try..right or wrong. Hopefully getting it right is near.
From an outsider's point of view: Support the Haslams because they are passionate about making the Browns a winner. They need to learn how to run this franchise, but it seems that they really want to succeed. Hopefully for Browns fans they will finally get it right.
I'm not mad at the Haslams. What else could they possibly do themselves to turn this around? It's the players.. It's the coaches.. If they can't get it right, you find someone who can.
The Haslams, by their own admission (at least by Dee) have no idea what they are doing. They did not realize that running an NFL franchise would be this difficult. They have shown themselves to be incompetent at best. Their management style or strategy or whatever you want to call it is a massive failure. Basically, they don't know what they don't know. And that spells trouble. They literally are grasping at straws year in and year out hoping to get lucky. The best thing that can happen to this team and this fan base is for someone to buy the Browns and get rid of these dumbasses. They will NEVER be successful in the NFL unless they make MAJOR changes to how they run this franchise.
They can sell or go to hell. The sooner, the better. They basically confirm the fact that just because you are rich doesn't mean you are smart. I hate them and what they have done since taking over. I cannot believe that the NFL allowed these dipshits to become owners. It's really unbelievable. And the fans CONTINUE to pay the price. Screw you Haslams!
The Haslam's hired a football guy to run the franchise. Someone to acquire players and assemble coaches. They listened to his recommendations and signed the checks. The fans, for the most part, were even on board, as was a large part of the National Media. BUT .. That person hitched his wagon to Freddie Kitchens. Someone who had never been a head coach, someone who spent 8 games as an interim Offensive Coordinator, while picking and choosing his plays from someone else's playbook. They thought Dorsey knew what he was doing. Perhaps he did when it came to talent, but his blind spot was coaches. He needed someone he could control.
The blame is on Dorsey. It appears as though he was offered the chance to stay, but no power to pick or control the new Head Coach. Dorsey declined to stay. How do you blame the Haslams for having two 1000 yard receivers, and a 1400 yard rusher, and only winning 6 games. Did Dorsey call Freddie in and tell him .. "Let Monken call plays ?" Did Dorsey say .. "Freddie, somethings not working right .. Fix it." It didn't show on the field if he did.
The franchise was turned over to Dorsey to run. Don't blame Haslam. He did exactly what EVERYONE here has wanted him to do.
45 years of rooting for the browns, and this year has been the toughest yet. Not for the disappointing record. It's that these guys are really hard to root for. Diva wideouts. QB that didnt work in the off season. No discipline. Meanwhile, I have to watch the purple browns in Baltimore do everything right. I fricken hate this attachment I have to orange helmets.
I had a hard time explaining to my 7yo why the miles garret play was so wrong. He tried so hard to justify it, but its garbage.
Anyway, rant off. Browns are a hard habit to kick.
We don’t have much choice other than to just hope they get it right luckily.
I think we were SO close to getting it right with Dorsey and what he acquired/drafted .. BUT his own ego and need for control put FK as the head coach and it crumbled. If Dorsey’s ego weren’t so big and he was more trusting in a TRUE coach, we might think way differently today
4 ways Browns can quit being NFL laughingstocks, including top coaching candidate they should chase Terez Paylor
The Cleveland Browns’ decision to fire Freddie Kitchens on Sunday was met with head nods and chuckles.
Of course, it was time for Kitchens to go. Of course, he was in over his head.
But when word leaked Tuesday that general manager John Dorsey was in trouble and later got the ax too, well, those chuckles turned to deep sighs in Ohio.
Browns fans have seen this act before from team owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam, who clearly want to win but have no idea how as they continue to put this fan base through a cruel and twisted football version of “Groundhog Day.”
Step One: The team underachieves.
Step Two: Haslam gets frustrated and impatient, someone (or some) get fired.
Step Three: A new hope gets hired, and expectations rise.
Step Four: Start back at Step One again.
And so on, and so on it goes, which explains how, in an era of football when parity is a driving force of the league, the Haslams have accumulated a horrific record since they bought the Browns in October 2012.
Since 2013, the first full season the Haslams owned the team, Cleveland is 28-83-1. That’s a 25 percent winning percentage, about 16 percent behind what William Clay Ford Sr., the deceased patriarch of the Detroit Lions, posted as team owner from 1964-2013. That should explain how pathetic the Haslams’ winning percentage is, right?
But here we are again, with the Haslams holding everyone — the coaches, the players, the general manager, the executives, the waterboy — accountable except themselves.
And it’s a shame. The Browns are one of the NFL’s most historic franchises, a place where legends like Paul Brown, Jim Brown and Otto Graham thrived, and more importantly, won championships.
Of course, those championships came in the 1950s and ’60s. Since then, the Browns have not only failed to reach a Super Bowl — joining the Lions as the only non-expansion team to do so — they also employed the greatest coach of all time (Bill Belichick) and never reaped any of the benefits, went 0-16 in 2016 and implemented the single-worst uniform design in the NFL in 2015.
It’s time for this to stop.
Here are some ways the Haslams can resurrect this franchise, based on football truths I’ve culled from people I respect in the league during my time covering the NFL.
Qualities needed for GM, head coach The key to being a good NFL team owner is to hire competent people and give them time and space to do their jobs. Doing both will not be easy, particularly for Jimmy Haslam, an impatient meddler with a tendency to seek opinions from far too many internal voices (which only encourages more culture-crushing power grabs from subordinates). But hiring smart people and empowering them fully so everyone can chart the course forward is the only way to change the culture of losing and back-stabbing in Cleveland.
It’s not impossible to do. After all this trial and error, the Haslams may be on the verge of finding a winning path. But doing so will require a new four-step process from the Haslams, one that would theoretically replace their patented, time-tested “How to lose NFL games at a clip faster than the Detroit Lions” strategy.
Step One: Hire a general manager who will vibe with chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta, who has earned responsibility from within the organization and is reportedly running the head coaching search. My vote is for Eagles vice president of football operations Andrew Berry, who is bright and highly regarded and is believed to be in the running for the position. If Berry doesn’t work out, the key here is to hire someone smart that DePodesta can be tied to at the hip.
Baker Mayfield struggled in his second season in the league. (AP Photo/Rick Scuteri) Baker Mayfield struggled in his second season in the league. (AP Photo/Rick Scuteri) Step Two: Hire a head coach who shares the same team-building philosophy of DePodesta and the new general manager, and can maximize the talents of quarterback Baker Mayfield, who is about to be coached by his fourth head coach in three years.
This is the type of dysfunction that causes first-round quarterbacks to bust. We’re approaching a danger zone with Mayfield, who will have no more godfathers — someone personally involved in his selection — in the building. If the Browns want to ensure he makes it, and they should because they can win with him, the next coach needs to believe in him and build an offense around his talents.
To do that, they should turn to Minnesota Vikings offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski, whose zone run-heavy offensive scheme is en vogue in the NFL. He has also coaxed a career season out of Kirk Cousins. Stefanski’s scheme would fit Mayfield’s strengths (athleticism, arm) while minimizing his weaknesses (his lack of height).
Step Three: Spend lots of money in free agency on the best zone-blocking offensive linemen available. This will improve the run game, which will negate a 2019 weakness — pass protection.
Step Four: The Haslams need to stay the hell away from all football decisions for at least three years. Conversations should be limited to the triumvirate (DePodesta, GM, coach), a group that should be reminded regularly that it will get three years together, but if one of them eventually goes, all of them will go. This will prevent the in-fighting that has caused past Browns regimes to lose course.
Do all four steps, and there is the possibility for a quick turnaround in Cleveland, maybe even a winning record and/or playoff berth in 2020. The Browns’ skill position players are strong. Sure, they underachieved this year, particularly at receiver, but with a better offensive line and a scheme more fitting of Mayfield’s talents, Cleveland could score a lot of points very quickly next season.
The wake of another failed regime, where the principles involved (Dorsey and Kitchens) couldn’t change the culture, served as a reminder that the Browns’ ultimate fate hinges on the Haslams changing their ways of doing things.
And given their embarrassing winning percentage, it’s hard for Browns fans to expect that, or even remain optimistic. Considering the savage punishment they’ve been subjected to for over half a century, one can only hope it comes to fruition.
If the Haslam's keep messing up the way they do, its only a matter of time before they move the team.
Messing up all the time is what really killed Art Modell, messing up coaches and big contracts which Haslam seems to be doing at an accelerated rate.
Haslam is literally running the Browns into the ground...if he don't get things right in the next 5-7 years, you will see the team moved due to financial problems just like Model. Haslam keeps paying people not to work for him. Its insane.
Folks don't realize that the Browns lease on First Energy Statium expires in 2029, that's 9 years from now, that's not long. The fact the city seems to be at odds with Haslam, and the Haslam's want a new stadium don't bode well.
This has all the makings of "The Move" all over again, and Haslam is a worse snake than Modell, he will move this team in a heartbeat and won't think twice about it if he don't get what he wants, and even then may just move it anyways.
the NFL didn't even want a team back in Cleveland in the 1st place, and I sometimes wonder if Haslam keeps blowing things up on purpose trying to slowly kill interest off in the team so when he does move it 9 years down the road few will care.
Salt Lake City, Portland, and San Antonio are all places the NFL would love to put a team at.
Be watchful, if the Browns don't somehow figure out how to be so sucessful that the Haslam can't move the team, I fear we will see another move in 9-10 years...
They bought the team for 1 billion roughly. Its now worth 2billion according to forbes.
If that's running the team to the ground, I would hate to work for you.
Jimmy Haslam is a frustrated egomaniac who knows nothing about building a winning football team but listens to many who try to tell him how.
The constant since buying the Browns, Jimmy loves his money more than anything else in the world and as long as he is playing Moneyball, listening to Depodesta instead of football people it's going to be tough to build a winner with him owning the Browns. Haslam isn't patient enough to let a coaching staff build a winning football team.
But Haslam is going to rake in close to a half billion just from the NFL, so why spend to build the franchise...the Haslam's are simply raping Browns fans with their southern style of ownership.
I was a season ticket holder..Thanks to Peen and Columbusdawg.
I stopped going to games after the second home game. It had nothing to do with the Haslams. Mostly because of the poor coaching and lack of effort.
The Haslams pretty much do how I would do.. Get mad and change it up until it gets right.. May not be the right way of doing things..But it's kind of the way I would.
I don't know what the right answer or the right way is. But I do know they seem to try..right or wrong. Hopefully getting it right is near.
I have faith in the Haslams.
Their legacy isn't constant change and firing good people for the sake of firing people. Their legacy is hiring the wrong people. And perhaps not just wrong people, but forcing front office and head coach marriages that are destined to fail.
They want to win, not make money. Otherwise they would have stayed the course with one of the 5 or so head coaches in the past 8 years for the sake of saving money.
One day they'll get it right and we'll be rewarded.
Jimmy Haslam is a frustrated egomaniac who knows nothing about building a winning football team but listens to many who try to tell him how.
The constant since buying the Browns, Jimmy loves his money more than anything else in the world and as long as he is playing Moneyball, listening to Depodesta instead of football people it's going to be tough to build a winner with him owning the Browns. Haslam isn't patient enough to let a coaching staff build a winning football team.
But Haslam is going to rake in close to a half billion just from the NFL, so why spend to build the franchise...the Haslam's are simply raping Browns fans with their southern style of ownership.
See, I think this is just a post of a frustrated fan. I don't believe anything within this post is true.
45 years of rooting for the browns, and this year has been the toughest yet. Not for the disappointing record. It's that these guys are really hard to root for. Diva wideouts. QB that didnt work in the off season. No discipline. Meanwhile, I have to watch the purple browns in Baltimore do everything right. I fricken hate this attachment I have to orange helmets.
I had a hard time explaining to my 7yo why the miles garret play was so wrong. He tried so hard to justify it, but its garbage.
Anyway, rant off. Browns are a hard habit to kick.
I hear you.
I remember the days when we'd talk about Hank Fraley, and other 'bring a lunch pale to work' kind of guys. That's Browns football to me and that's what it was to a lot of other fans as well.
OBJ just isn't it. People lost touch of things somewhere. That's a guy who got traded because NYG, one of the more respected franchises in the league, got tired of his antics. Fans laughed repeatedly at how much we ripped them off, like we got such a great steal... um no. We got a low grade, chronic headache. Someone who will wear a $200k watch during a game for no other reason than to draw attention to himself (please tell me, what other reason would there be to do this?)
He'll make flashy warmup catches, and has an active and lively Instagram account, but can't find the time to study the playbook. He couldn't get lined up correctly a lot of times, and we're talking the end of the season here.
Garrett, don't even get me started. I get that fans are going to be biased toward defending their own players but reading some of the stuff on here and on social media was a bit much.
If the Haslam's keep messing up the way they do, its only a matter of time before they move the team.
Messing up all the time is what really killed Art Modell, messing up coaches and big contracts which Haslam seems to be doing at an accelerated rate.
Haslam is literally running the Browns into the ground...if he don't get things right in the next 5-7 years, you will see the team moved due to financial problems just like Model. Haslam keeps paying people not to work for him. Its insane.
Folks don't realize that the Browns lease on First Energy Statium expires in 2029, that's 9 years from now, that's not long. The fact the city seems to be at odds with Haslam, and the Haslam's want a new stadium don't bode well.
This has all the makings of "The Move" all over again, and Haslam is a worse snake than Modell, he will move this team in a heartbeat and won't think twice about it if he don't get what he wants, and even then may just move it anyways.
the NFL didn't even want a team back in Cleveland in the 1st place, and I sometimes wonder if Haslam keeps blowing things up on purpose trying to slowly kill interest off in the team so when he does move it 9 years down the road few will care.
Salt Lake City, Portland, and San Antonio are all places the NFL would love to put a team at.
Be watchful, if the Browns don't somehow figure out how to be so sucessful that the Haslam can't move the team, I fear we will see another move in 9-10 years...
They bought the team for 1 billion roughly. Its now worth 2billion according to forbes.
If that's running the team to the ground, I would hate to work for you.
All the other franchises increased their value like that too (some by more), because owning an NFL franchise is basically a license to print money.
Let's not pretend that the value of the franchise increased that much because the Haslams have done a good job.. lol
I do think they care, are trying to get this right, and are willing to spend the money to do so. Their decisions have been really bad, though.
Jimmy Haslam is a frustrated egomaniac who knows nothing about building a winning football team but listens to many who try to tell him how.
The constant since buying the Browns, Jimmy loves his money more than anything else in the world and as long as he is playing Moneyball, listening to Depodesta instead of football people it's going to be tough to build a winner with him owning the Browns. Haslam isn't patient enough to let a coaching staff build a winning football team.
But Haslam is going to rake in close to a half billion just from the NFL, so why spend to build the franchise...the Haslam's are simply raping Browns fans with their southern style of ownership.
See, I think this is just a post of a frustrated fan. I don't believe anything within this post is true.
device...I'm not about to give you the easy way out with that kind of answer.
Tell what is not true about this, paragraph #1-
Jimmy Haslam is a frustrated egomaniac who knows nothing about building a winning football team but listens to many who try to tell him how.
Device...now try paragraph #2..what is not true?-
The constant since buying the Browns, Jimmy loves his money more than anything else in the world and as long as he is playing Moneyball, listening to Depodesta instead of football people it's going to be tough to build a winner with him owning the Browns. Haslam isn't patient enough to let a coaching staff build a winning football team.
devic...now explain what is not true about paragraph #3-
But Haslam is going to rake in close to a half billion just from the NFL, so why spend to build the franchise...the Haslam's are simply raping Browns fans with their southern style of ownership.
1) Haslam is not an egomaniac. But Dorsey was and he was a problem.
2) If Jimmy's main concern was money he wouldn't be paying more money to people NOT to coach his team than to the people actually coaching and running it.
3) Haslam is spending A LOT of money to get this right. He's not raping anyone, he wants to win as much as anyone.
In reality, DePodesta played football in college and wanted to be a football coach,[14][16][17] seen in a photo wearing number 17.[18] After graduating from Harvard with a degree in economics, he became an intern for the Canadian Football League's Baltimore Stallions in 1995.[19]
1) Haslam is not an egomaniac. But Dorsey was and he was a problem.
2) If Jimmy's main concern was money he wouldn't be paying more money to people NOT to coach his team than to the people actually coaching and running it.
3) Haslam is spending A LOT of money to get this right. He's not raping anyone, he wants to win as much as anyone.
device...serious question...how old are you and have any experience with football other than being a fan?
If you want an answer, look to the fact that they are quick to change if they feel they've made a mistake and that they keep on trying.. They never quit.
If you want an answer, look to the fact that they are quick to change if they feel they've made a mistake and that they keep on trying.. They never quit.
Eventually, they will find the right people,,,
I have to agree with this. Plenty to gripe about but they seem to have no problem saying, "oops". Definate evaluation issues though.
I too believe the Haslams are working hard to get this right. They don't want to be the laughingstock of the league and I'm sure would like to be successful and win a Superbowl. If he has an ego as some say why would he want to fail? He didn't buy this team to lose and fail at it. They keep trying and this time I hope they get it right.
If you want an answer, look to the fact that they are quick to change if they feel they've made a mistake and that they keep on trying.. They never quit.
Eventually, they will find the right people,,,
The fact that they KEEP making the SAME mistakes tells you that THEY are the problem. Once the regime is put in place, they NEED to step away from the operation. Jimmy needs to stay in his lane which is OUT of the offices of coaches, scouts and whoever else. Until he does this, change will be constant in Berea. SMH
I too believe the Haslams are working hard to get this right. They don't want to be the laughingstock of the league and I'm sure would like to be successful and win a Superbowl. If he has an ego as some say why would he want to fail? He didn't buy this team to lose and fail at it. They keep trying and this time I hope they get it right.
They aren't failing. Franchise value continues to go up by most accounts. People can laugh all they want to at the Haslams. The Haslams are laughing all the way to the bank. Keep donating suckers. LOL
I don't know what the truth is within the walls of Berea - but it seems to me that the Haslams have taken a step back after their Petine/Farmer disaster where quite likely they were the root cause of the cancerous dysfunction that spread. I got the feeling that Dorsey 100% owned his draft and choice of HC last year - with no interference from the Haslams. Just how I read it, and if true, then I don't see what the problem is.
Forward 12 months - Freddie HAD to go. He was a total disaster and unprepared to be a HC. And as some of the things at the end of the season come to light, it reconfirms the problem. Nothing to do with the Haslams, just a fact of life.
I would have been happy to keep Dorsey - but I *suspect* that Dorsey would have been dangling in the wind until the next HC is selected. There is every chance if we get a 'top' candidate like McCarthy or (ugh) McDaniels - they will demand or insist that they bring in their own GM. . . . My take is Dorsey forced their hand and either wanted a commitment he'd be the man or he needed to part ways. So once Freddie was forced to go - Dorsey was in an bad situation. Letting him go is the cleanest way to move on.
For those slamming the Haslams - I guess I'd ask which HC would you have not fired?
Freddie? He's shown no improvement as a HC / Game caller / Game manager. Lost the team and players have no respect for him.
Hue - the 1-31 guy?
Petine / Farmer? - All on the Haslams, but total dysfunction within the organization. I liked Petine, but none of us knew (and probably still don't) know what was going on internally with Farmer and him. I think Petine's rise was too early/too swift. Wouldn't be surprised to see him as HC in the future.
Chud - other than this year with the last game of the season - I have never seen a team so completely quit before the end of the season. Haslams took over and I think 95% of new owners in that situation would want to clean house and start a new era.
Now ... Picking the WRONG team to run the organization? That's a pattern. And for those railing against Depodesta - at least we (seem to) know that his preferences for HC were better choices than the Haslams.... McDermott would have been a heck of a choice. I forget the other guy he wanted instead of Hue.
I am close to where you are except for this season.
I bought into the roster. Felt we had a good team. I wanted the season to begin. Then I wanted it to end.
Football is filled with ego's. Kind of the nature of the game. Players, coaches, GM's and owners.
Haslam is no different.
I have no doubts that in his mind he wants to win. That is why you get in game. Ego. You have money. Sure you get more but really how much to you need if you have the money to buy a team?
Haslam has gotten a full dose of how hard it is to win. As a minority owner of the Steelers; it may have looked easy.
If people have long memories it was not so easy for Art Rooney.
Jerry Jones, Snyder and others have found out as well.
If you want an answer, look to the fact that they are quick to change if they feel they've made a mistake and that they keep on trying.. They never quit.
I don’t see any support for the Haslams. I think just about everyone knows what a dumpster fire they are. Hell, I think they even know it by the statement they made.
I support them. I don't question their desire to win.
I will send in my $3200 when my season ticket invoice arrives.
I'm not going to go on some rant about the Haslams. It's been frustrating to say the least.
But when Dee Haslam says, "We bought this team because we thought it would be fun to have an NFL team," Dee said. "I don't know why we thought that, but we thought this will be a really fun, great chapter in our life.", and things like, "We don't know what we're doing"..... There's not a lot more that I could add to that. I actually find that level of honesty refreshing.
She admitted that they bought the team for *fun* and that they're clueless. A thought has been running through my mind for quite some time now and after seeing her comments, I've come to the realization that those thoughts are true.
Being a faithful fan of the Browns over the past several years is much like watching Roadrunner cartoons and rooting for Wile E. Coyote. You know how the ending is going to turn out before you ever bother to watch the cartoon. But for some reason you go through the motions anyway rooting for someone who you know in the end is going to lose.
This should be exciting, but I'm dreading it, instead.
Don't dread it! We've ben through about 4 or 5 of these already.
We could probably give the speech for Jimmy by now.
"Candidly, Dee and I, as stewards of the franchise, are fully committed to getting this right no matter what it takes. Our fans are some of the most loyal fans in the NFL and they deserve a winner."
This should be exciting, but I'm dreading it, instead.
Don't dread it! We've ben through about 4 or 5 of these already.
We could probably give the speech for Jimmy by now.
"Candidly, Dee and I, as stewards of the franchise, are fully committed to getting this right no matter what it takes. Our fans are some of the most loyal fans in the NFL and they deserve a winner."
Exactly. I don’t understand why anyone even bothers to watch/listen. Total waste of time.
Maybe the Haslams should be PAYING you to be a fan. It's only fair.they are giving you a poor product on the field. Yet you are expected to pay full price and all you get in the mail is a thank you and 10 tickets. Hey Dee let's charge this loyal fan from our great Volunteer State 3200.00 dollars. You Know why CAUSE WE CAN AND WILL. !!! Bad enough enough it's a 10 hr trip for you At the very least the Haslams could send you Gas and Hotel money. The Haslams need to cut you and so many other fans a check.
Nobody forces you or anyone else here to be fans of the Browns. It's a choice as to whether you're willing to pony up the $$ and emotions to follow this team.
Peen has chosen to follow that path just like many of us have. Although I don't put forth the type of financial investment Peen does, emotionally I'm no less invested. Nobody owes us a dime for choosing to be a fan and supporting this team.
Loyalty used to be considered a good trait. I have a limit to where I place my loyalty because at some point I expect what I give to be given in return. But at what point that is, is my choice and nobody owes me anything for the choices I make.
1st. Thanks guys for posting the tweets. Makes it much easier for some of us who can't watch video at work. Your posting is very much appreciated.
2nd. This might be a dumb question but who is actually going to be talking to these coaching candidates? Who do we still have in the building that can ask tough questions to a person like that? Wolf? Monkin?
1st. Thanks guys for posting the tweets. Makes it much easier for some of us who can't watch video at work. Your posting is very much appreciated.
2nd. This might be a dumb question but who is actually going to be talking to these coaching candidates? Who do we still have in the building that can ask tough questions to a person like that? Wolf? Monkin?
Here's the summary: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Just make sure to send in your money suckers. LOL
Whoever writes this clown's speeches should get some credit. Totally clueless on running a professional sports franchise. Same song and dance as previous years.
Jimmy, here's a clue: You are a joke. Your team is a joke. The league knows it. The fans know it. You're very rich. Sell the team and enjoy the rest of your life so we can enjoy some of ours. Get the hell out of Cleveland and NEVER come back. Jackass.
I listened to it, I am pretty sure he said we WILL hire from within the organization
I was listening as well. It was confusing b/c he said it quickly, but he wouldn't say, Elliott Wolf will remain in his same role and DePo will remain in his role and then say we are promoting from within.
He's taking questions off the cuff - and comes across as genuine and has a desire to get it right.
Clearly/Tellingly when he was asked about letting the next guy have time to get it right if it doesn't go right straight away ... Haslam talked about needing to see improvement on the field and behind the scenes. Clearly FK was not.
On Dorsey - he was going to get a demotion and not have the HC report to him. That's why he is gone. Looking at who Dorsey chose - not totally surprising.
On analytics - he explained it nicely AND had a (sort of) swipe at Freddie. . . . "Data can tell us what formation Baker is more successful out of" - and we can get much better at using that information.
I listened to it, I am pretty sure he said we WILL hire from within the organization
I was listening as well. It was confusing b/c he said it quickly, but he wouldn't say, Elliott Wolf will remain in his same role and DePo will remain in his role and then say we are promoting from within.
Zac Jackson has it as outside the org as well...
CBD right now is saying that they are not sure either what he said.....they said they thought he said within, but its reported as outside. lol
Here's the summary: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Just make sure to send in your money suckers. LOL
Whoever writes this clown's speeches should get some credit. Totally clueless on running a professional sports franchise. Same song and dance as previous years.
Jimmy, here's a clue: You are a joke. Your team is a joke. The league knows it. The fans know it. You're very rich. Sell the team and enjoy the rest of your life so we can enjoy some of ours. Get the hell out of Cleveland and NEVER come back. Jackass.
You do know that when your getting Questions and then answering them, its not a speech - right? A speech would be a prepared statement - read.
This is a press conference, where hes taking ? from reporters and answering on the spot.
Here's the summary: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Just make sure to send in your money suckers. LOL
Whoever writes this clown's speeches should get some credit. Totally clueless on running a professional sports franchise. Same song and dance as previous years.
Jimmy, here's a clue: You are a joke. Your team is a joke. The league knows it. The fans know it. You're very rich. Sell the team and enjoy the rest of your life so we can enjoy some of ours. Get the hell out of Cleveland and NEVER come back. Jackass.
You do know that when your getting Questions and then answering them, its not a speech - right? A speech would be a prepared statement - read.
This is a press conference, where hes taking ? from reporters and answering on the spot.
His opening comments were basically the same crap he's spewed previously about thanking guys for the time with the Browns, what they want to do, the process and the fact that they want to win. No duh Sherlock. That's what I was referring to.
His responses to the questions were also pretty much the same crap we have heard in previous Q&A sessions. This guy gets ZERO money (or anything else) from me until (if EVER - and I doubt it happens unless he removes himself from "the process") he puts a respectable team that sustains excellence on the field.
He knows very little about what he is doing, his wife admitted as much regarding what they got themselves into regarding owning an NFL team and yet he continues to spew a bunch of crap about what he has learned and how this time will be better. I call [censored]. Get it done on the field or do us all a favor and sell the team to someone who KNOWS how to run an organization. What a buffoon.
I'd have to agree but what alternative do we have? Don't go and lose the team again? I don't own them but the Browns are my team. I tried to root for the Bills and the Packers after the Browns left but the passion was just not there. So my only choice is to hope the Haslams get it right before I meet my maker.
I like Jimmy. He was straight forward in his presser.He admits they were wrong..He admits it's not easy he seems genuine in wanting to build a great franchise. He didn't come off cocky. He admits starting over sucks.
The people who bad mouth Jimmy from inside the organization are past employees. Apparently if these employees were so good they would still have a job because they helped turn it into a winner. Well no winner yet..so try to put in the right people..another thing Jimmy admits they did wrong. again he is admitting his mistakes.
I'm not going to let disgruntled employees comments change my mind on the Haslams. This is a make it or break it. The Browns were a mess since 1999. It's going to take time for a first time owner to bring change.If they don't get it right this time then I will have to check my feelings on them.
Some people want Jimmy to sell the team. What if he does and the new Owner moves the team. Remember what it felt like the last time that happened.
What would be worse..Not having the Cleveland Browns to cheer for or being patient with an Owner who is trying whether he's doing it right or wrong.
Does anyone know why this JW guy is helping with the coaching search?
JW is also an owner of the team. Good, bad or indifferent, it's kind of hard to tell a team owner not to be involved.
At the end of the day, the guy in charge MUST know what he doesn't know AND have the intelligence to surround himself with people who fill that void. Jimmy, Dee and JW have shown ZERO ability to do this. This is their BIGGEST mistake as owners. Haslam is rich which is fine. He knows NOTHING about running a professional sports franchise and should INTERFERE as little as possible. Stay out of the way, let the people you hired do their jobs and count the money. That's it. But no. He can't. He has to stick his nose into EVERYTHING which does nothing but cause chaos in the building. HE is the reason for the circus in Berea. The trouble is, he's too stupid to understand that. Like I said before - dumbass.
Does anyone know why this JW guy is helping with the coaching search?
JW is also an owner of the team. Good, bad or indifferent, it's kind of hard to tell a team owner not to be involved.
At the end of the day, the guy in charge MUST know what he doesn't know AND have the intelligence to surround himself with people who fill that void. Jimmy, Dee and JW have shown ZERO ability to do this. This is their BIGGEST mistake as owners. Haslam is rich which is fine. He knows NOTHING about running a professional sports franchise and should INTERFERE as little as possible. Stay out of the way, let the people you hired do their jobs and count the money. That's it. But no. He can't. He has to stick his nose into EVERYTHING which does nothing but cause chaos in the building. HE is the reason for the circus in Berea. The trouble is, he's too stupid to understand that. Like I said before - dumbass.
Every owner has input into the team. NBA, NFL, MLB, etc. They give the directives one way or another - to say they should just sit there and let someone run their entire business isn't going to happen. I would even venture to say Kraft has directives for BB.
Does anyone know why this JW guy is helping with the coaching search?
JW is also an owner of the team. Good, bad or indifferent, it's kind of hard to tell a team owner not to be involved.
At the end of the day, the guy in charge MUST know what he doesn't know AND have the intelligence to surround himself with people who fill that void. Jimmy, Dee and JW have shown ZERO ability to do this. This is their BIGGEST mistake as owners. Haslam is rich which is fine. He knows NOTHING about running a professional sports franchise and should INTERFERE as little as possible. Stay out of the way, let the people you hired do their jobs and count the money. That's it. But no. He can't. He has to stick his nose into EVERYTHING which does nothing but cause chaos in the building. HE is the reason for the circus in Berea. The trouble is, he's too stupid to understand that. Like I said before - dumbass.
Every owner has input into the team. NBA, NFL, MLB, etc. They give the directives one way or another - to say they should just sit there and let someone run their entire business isn't going to happen. I would even venture to say Kraft has directives for BB.
Directives are one thing; talking to coaches, scouts, players and constantly asking questions and getting feedback from what seems like EVERY person connected to the team is absolutely RIDICULOUS! You CANNOT micromanage an organization and be successful. I think we ALL understand that given the performance of this team under Haslam's "leadership". He is clueless and simply refuses to change his methods. This is why the Browns are stuck in a cycle of SUCK. Wash, rinse, repeat. Nobody should wonder why the Browns SUCK at this point. One common thread: JIMMY HASLAM. Case closed.
I have yet to hear Haslam say " Iam failing as a owner" Every 2,years he recycles the same "WE HAVE TO GET IT RIGHT SPEECH " WELL THANK YOU CAPTAIN OBVIOUS
Anybody that employes Sashi Brown as a GM or Freddie Kitchens as a HC has no clue on Building a winning program
People bashing Haslam crack me up. If they kept Freddie they would be saying he and Dorsey are fools. He fires Freddie and lets Dorsey walk to make it easier for a new hire and people bash him for that. Who actually believes keeping Freddie would have been a good idea.
The guy spent a billion dollars on this team, thinking he doesn't care if they are a winner is asinine. He is probably just as frustrated as the fans with how it has gone. Finding the right people to lead a franchise that has been a disaster since 1999 is a tall task. Continuity would be great, but there hasn't been anyone here that has been worth the time to wait. I sure he sees a talented roster for the first time in years and is licking his chops to get the right person to guide it. Look at the money this guy pays to former employees, he can't be happy about that, but is willing to do it while searching for the right group.
So my answer is I will support and believe that he wants to win just as we fans do. Those who don't want to, should just move on, because he owns the team and that ain't changing anytime soon.
I have yet to hear Haslam say " Iam failing as a owner" Every 2,years he recycles the same "WE HAVE TO GET IT RIGHT SPEECH " WELL THANK YOU CAPTAIN OBVIOUS
Anybody that employes Sashi Brown as a GM or Freddie Kitchens as a HC has no clue on Building a winning program
EXACTLY! He is a FAILURE as an owner in terms of HOW he is managing this organization. Maybe it's time to REMOVE yourself from the "process". He can market like mad. As far as operations, he is a ZERO. FIX THE PROBLEM JIMMY! Duh.
Does anyone know why this JW guy is helping with the coaching search?
JW is also an owner of the team. Good, bad or indifferent, it's kind of hard to tell a team owner not to be involved.
The reason why I asked above is because I don't see more than 1 person in that building that's qualified to interview a HC in that building. Maybe Wolf is qualified. I don't think DePo is qualified to ask the tough questions, face-to-face, even if he will put together a killer spreadsheet showing us who we should be looking at (and I'm not mocking him with that statement).
I have yet to hear Haslam say " Iam failing as a owner"
He has admitted to making many mistakes..Some Owners would never admit to that.
You ever try to build a motor.. want to add more horse power and torque. You put the motor together believing that you got it right. Then you turn the key
Well back to square one that didn't work...lets try...
Lots of dirty hands long nights and lots of cash... getting close to making that motor purrrr like thunder
Takes time takes effort takes reapplying a plan to get it that way.
I don't think DePo is qualified to ask the tough questions, face-to-face, even if he will put together a killer spreadsheet showing us who we should be looking at (and I'm not mocking him with that statement).
Why don't you think DePo is qualified to ask "tough questions?" What are these tough questions and why would anybody be afraid to ask them in an interview process? It's more important to ask the right questions.
Whatever questions he has asked or interviews he's been involved in have led to the conclusion in his process that McDermott and Stefanski should have been the hires.
Was Dorsey qualified to ask tough questions? If so, that got you Freddie Kitchens.
Does anyone know why this JW guy is helping with the coaching search?
JW is also an owner of the team. Good, bad or indifferent, it's kind of hard to tell a team owner not to be involved.
The reason why I asked above is because I don't see more than 1 person in that building that's qualified to interview a HC in that building. Maybe Wolf is qualified. I don't think DePo is qualified to ask the tough questions, face-to-face, even if he will put together a killer spreadsheet showing us who we should be looking at (and I'm not mocking him with that statement).
Depo has been a baseball General Manager. I figure, after being a GM of the Dodgers and Mets, he should know about pressure to win and the kind of person needed to succeed.
I don't think DePo is qualified to ask the tough questions, face-to-face, even if he will put together a killer spreadsheet showing us who we should be looking at (and I'm not mocking him with that statement).
Why don't you think DePo is qualified to ask "tough questions?" What are these tough questions and why would anybody be afraid to ask them in an interview process? It's more important to ask the right questions.
Whatever questions he has asked or interviews he's been involved in have led to the conclusion in his process that McDermott and Stefanski should have been the hires.
Was Dorsey qualified to ask tough questions? If so, that got you Freddie Kitchens.
I'm just remembering back to Whisenhunt's interview with us before Pettine was hired, and I kinda have that stuck in my head.
Generally, a GM-type person and others from the FO can "talk shop" with a coach and challenge him in his area of expertise to help get useful info about the candidate. We just fired a bunch of those guys. Other than Wolf and the coordinators that are about to get fired, I don't see anyone in the building that has anywhere near the chops/cred to try to make a top NFL HC candidate sweat in an interview.
There's a big difference in wanting to win and how to accomplish that.
I highly doubt anyone questions his desire to win, but his track record strongly implies he doesn't have a clue how to go about that. Even his wife said as much.
"We bought this team because we thought it would be fun to have an NFL team," Dee said. "I don't know why we thought that, but we thought this will be a really fun, great chapter in our life."
There's a big difference in wanting to win and how to accomplish that.
I highly doubt anyone questions his desire to win, but his track record strongly implies he doesn't have a clue how to go about that. Even his wife said as much.
"We bought this team because we thought it would be fun to have an NFL team," Dee said. "I don't know why we thought that, but we thought this will be a really fun, great chapter in our life."
"We didn't have a clue what we were doing"
Bingo! Want to win? Who doesn't? Know how? NO CLUE. Nice to know that the Browns are basically "fun to own". What a bunch of incompetent dipshits. Only in Cleveland. SMH
There's a big difference in wanting to win and how to accomplish that.
I highly doubt anyone questions his desire to win, but his track record strongly implies he doesn't have a clue how to go about that. Even his wife said as much.
"We bought this team because we thought it would be fun to have an NFL team," Dee said. "I don't know why we thought that, but we thought this will be a really fun, great chapter in our life."
"We didn't have a clue what we were doing"
Bingo! Want to win? Who doesn't? Know how? NO CLUE. Nice to know that the Browns are basically "fun to own". What a bunch of incompetent dipshits. Only in Cleveland. SMH
And only in Cleveland do we cherry-pick quotes from a reward ceremony for women making a difference in Cleveland. Dee Haslam doesn't just write checks, she's hands-on and sees things through til she makes a difference. Not that any of that matters when we can have a good laugh about her being honest and candid about the struggles with the Browns.
Cracks me up. When these guys are PC everyone throws stones, when they speak from the heart - everyone plays the "dumb, rich, hillbillies" card.
I'm glad she was honest about it. I'm glad she does charitable work within the city.
But none of that actually changes what she said. Those quotes are directly connected with what they thought about buying the team and exactly how lost they were when it comes to building a team. I'm not sure why that would upset you.
At least people weren't trying to quote someone from Twitter with 11 followers.
These same people talk about Haslam not having a clue how to hire a coach, as if they have any idea what goes into it. They give sermons on who should get the job like they are experts. Haslam could be like Brown in Cincy and just stick with what is not producing, instead he puts his reputation on the line by doing what he thinks is right. He has made mistakes, and I can guarantee you it hurts him more than us fans. Being the owner of a franchise full of failures has got to be trying. He's not giving up, I got to hand that to him.
He owns the team and has doubled the value of his investment in the short time he's owned the team by fielding an inferior product. Why would he give up?
I ain't upset bro! I find it knee-slappin' hilarious!
The quotes are also the truth. The sentiments would align nearly exactly with any billionaire who buys a team and then goes through as much adversity as the Haslams. What the heck is wrong with just being honest??
This wasn't an ESPN interview, it was the ice-breaker to get the "Browns thing" out of the way at an awards ceremony.
I understand that. And I also understand that when most billionaires buy a team, they're not quite sure how to go through the process of building a team. But one would hope that they have at least some football background and a basic grasp of how to go about it with which to grow from.
Actually with him previously having been a minority owner of the Steelers I felt that may be the case here. And the way the NFL sort of teamed him up with Joe Banner certainly didn't help things.
I understand that the Haslam's want to win and I hold nothing personal against them.
I actually admire the honesty that Dee displayed by telling it the way it is. We get enough BS from people trying to cover their own asses and not being up front.
I suppose the Bengals owner was given his team and not necessarily invested a billion... And I wouldn't say they aren't trying to win, but they're definitely very content being average.
I understand that. And I also understand that when most billionaires buy a team, they're not quite sure how to go through the process of building a team. But one would hope that they have at least some football background and a basic grasp of how to go about it with which to grow from.
Actually with him previously having been a minority owner of the Steelers I felt that may be the case here. And the way the NFL sort of teamed him up with Joe Banner certainly didn't help things.
About the only ones who should have known, Mike Brown and the McCaskey's, have not done such a good job either. Only the Rooney's seemed to have listened and learned when they grew up.
I understand that the Haslam's want to win and I hold nothing personal against them.
I actually admire the honesty that Dee displayed by telling it the way it is. We get enough BS from people trying to cover their own asses and not being up front.
Some who grew up in "Football Owner Families" have problems too. Look at Mike Brown and the McCaskey's.
Oh some of them certainly do. But the "hope is" that someone has a foundation of football with which to build upon. It's not always the answer but I think someone would prefer to begin with that rather than someone who doesn't.
There's no standard answer or fool proof plan to any of this obviously.
He owns the team and has doubled the value of his investment in the short time he's owned the team by fielding an inferior product. Why would he give up?
he didn't do anything to increase the value. It would probably be 5x more valuable if he stopped meddling with it.
I am concerned with the approach of the coach being hired before the GM. Although it didn't work out because we had the wrong people in place to build a sustainable organization, I normally prefer the GM (or equiv. title) to be hired first and then the coach after. If a coach is hired first, it can sometimes lead to think that their opinion in player evaluation is more important because they came first. Sometimes that can lead to power struggles early on.
I'd prefer the search committee identify their top talent evaluator first, then go for the coach.
sounds like Freddie cried a lot about not reporting to the owner.
this is a terrible idea. we have proven it time and time agian.
the owners need to see that they are not capable of running an NFL franchise and should not have the HC report to them.
Happy Bday!
I think they all pretty much report to the owners anyway. I doubt they have to call jimmy and Dee on what plays to run and who starts over who.
thank you!
I'm sure they do however, I'm sure Dorsey shut up Freddie more than he could cry baby Huie.
I just think it's silly that they are trying to run multiple companies and have a head coach reort to them. they can't be hands on and that's what got them in trouble before.
I am concerned with the approach of the coach being hired before the GM. Although it didn't work out because we had the wrong people in place to build a sustainable organization, I normally prefer the GM (or equiv. title) to be hired first and then the coach after. If a coach is hired first, it can sometimes lead to think that their opinion in player evaluation is more important because they came first. Sometimes that can lead to power struggles early on.
I'd prefer the search committee identify their top talent evaluator first, then go for the coach.
But Haslem is gonna Haslem.
This is why McDaniels could be considered the frontrunner. He can bring Ziegler or Caserio over as his pick. Although...they may ask Stefanski and McCarthy if they mind working with Andrew Berry. That's not so much of a coach pick as the McDaniels scenario though.
He owns the team and has doubled the value of his investment in the short time he's owned the team by fielding an inferior product. Why would he give up?
he didn't do anything to increase the value. It would probably be 5x more valuable if he stopped meddling with it.
I didn't say he "did anything" to increase the value. Just that it did. Like I plainly stated, he put an inferior product on the field and the value of the team still doubled in value. And just as you say, if he could put a competitive team on the field the value would be even greater. So I'll go back to my question. Why would he give up?
Other than Al Lerner (for helping bring the team back) I have never been a supporter of the Browns owners. What I am is a HUGE supporter of the Cleveland Browns
I am concerned with the approach of the coach being hired before the GM. Although it didn't work out because we had the wrong people in place to build a sustainable organization, I normally prefer the GM (or equiv. title) to be hired first and then the coach after. If a coach is hired first, it can sometimes lead to think that their opinion in player evaluation is more important because they came first. Sometimes that can lead to power struggles early on.
I'd prefer the search committee identify their top talent evaluator first, then go for the coach.
But Haslem is gonna Haslem.
Normally I would agree. However, this time I feel that this is a good approach. The most important piece of the puzzle, franchise quarterback, we already have here. It's far more important, in my opinion, to find the right coach for Baker. We don't need a GM to come in here and find us a franchise quarterback. That's just one aspect.
I also believe we have people in place who will ensure we will have the right gm working with the HC. I think Dorsey also left a bad taste in Jimmy's mouth. And I also believe we won't have another Mangini-Kokinis incident. However this type of setup seems top be working for the 49ers and Raiders...
Im not overly concerned about hiring HC first... however, I do think we are better off not announcing how we are planning on doing things and just rather do them. Do other teams announce that they will hire HC first? Just seems odd, plus you never know what the process will bring... seems like this could limit a lot of decent GMs...
If you want an answer, look to the fact that they are quick to change if they feel they've made a mistake and that they keep on trying.. They never quit.
Eventually, they will find the right people,,,
I have to agree with this. Plenty to gripe about but they seem to have no problem saying, "oops". Definate evaluation issues though.
Think about this. it took Pittsburgh about 30 years to get it right but when they did, they went crazy with wins.
If you want an answer, look to the fact that they are quick to change if they feel they've made a mistake and that they keep on trying.. They never quit.
Eventually, they will find the right people,,,
I have to agree with this. Plenty to gripe about but they seem to have no problem saying, "oops". Definate evaluation issues though.
Think about this. it took Pittsburgh about 30 years to get it right but when they did, they went crazy with wins.
It's a marathon, not a sprint
The problem is, we have two turned ankles and our shoes are on the wrong feet.
Directives are one thing; talking to coaches, scouts, players and constantly asking questions and getting feedback from what seems like EVERY person connected to the team is absolutely RIDICULOUS!
That is exactly what an owner should be doing. Especially one that is not experienced. He is seeking out others for their advice. That's actually a great quality in a leader. I suggest you take a leadership development course.
Quote:
You CANNOT micromanage an organization and be successful.
I am not a fan of Micromanaging myself - however it is a managing style, and can be successful if done correcting and in certain instances:
1. A strategy is changing. When a company or unit changes strategy or major operations, leaders generally need to provide close direction until everyone involved understands and buys into the new direction. Which is exactly what is going on with the Browns.
2. There's a new leader, employee or unit. It's a common mistake to fail to recognize that even very talented and accomplished leaders can use advice and mentoring when they're placed in a new role or company and have to adjust to it.
3. An employee or leader fails to execute, or a project continues to linger. Too often things simply don't get done. Leaders then often wait patiently for something to change or results to be produced.
4. Results are disappointing. There are many critical areas in a company where results are paramount. If they aren't as expected, week after week, a leader must ask those responsible for more information about why. Perhaps even more important, you must ask what is being done to turn around the situation.
So, I ask - do the above sound like the Cleveland Browns at all?
Quote:
He is clueless and simply refuses to change his methods.
This is just battered fan talk. First, the guy is a Billionaire - you don't become or stay one by being "clueless". Second, your statement is just flat out plain wrong. The dude is literally paying mistakes salaries for people he has fired. You realize that firing HC like Kitchens, he is ADMITTING his mistake, and he is trying to CHANGE to rectify it right? Refusing to change his methods - would have been to keep the idiot coaches he had hired.
I think you need to learn a little bit more about management, leadership, and admitting and correcting ones mistakes.
You want to lambast him for hiring Freddie - cool, but that was on John, which is why he was let go. You wanna lambast him for Hue, go right ahead. You can complain our coaches stink and then get mad when we fire them. You don't get it both ways.
Everyone is mad that we fired Dorsey, I get it, he got a lot of names in here.
But other than being good at a talent evaluator, what did he do well?
No one can answer that, because we have no idea what he was like on a day to day basis. Reports are he was brash, hard to work with, "his way or the highway", and overall was not really great at managing a cap. We know hes crap at picking a HC, reports are he let Baker do whatever he wanted, and other reports are if you didn't get brought in by him or drafted by him, he didn't want you here.
He sucked at parts of his position plain and simple, and his employer wanted to take away those parts from him, which he refused.
But to act like the guy was perfect is well - not logical.
The more I look into him and read repots, the more I think we can do better.
Haslam even kinda said yesterday: there’s more than just evaluating. JD came up short in other areas
He made several comments that I thought pertained strictly to him.
he said "its not going to just be my way or the highway" with the guy we hire (which I think was pointed at John as well)
He mentioned the evaluating thing like you said
And there's a reason he kept talking about LEADERSHIP. I don't think that was particularly concerning Freddie, and I think that was pointed at John.
You can be great at an aspect of your job, and complete blow at another. But being a GM, you have to be a great leader. John was not. We saw that with how he handled Callaway for instance. He let AC roll right over him because of his talent.
Dorsey may not have been great but I had a lot more faith in him than I do Haslam, despite the Freddie Kitchens debacle.
About the only hope we have left is Depo actually nailed the last two head coaching debates. Does he have a third excellent recommendation in him (maybe Stefanski again?)
If we don't get the head coach right, we are totally screwed.
Dorsey may not have been great but I had a lot more faith in him than I do Haslam, despite the Freddie Kitchens debacle.
About the only hope we have left is Depo actually nailed the last two head coaching debates. Does he have a third excellent recommendation in him (maybe Stefanski again?)
If we don't get the head coach right, we are totally screwed.
Look at the talent we have on this roster. A turtle could coach it to 7 or 8 wins. I think you are underestimating the "Freddie Debacle". Literally any other hire, and we are probably in the playoffs.
And reports are John wanted to keep him another year. John was very bull headed about analytics, and it was John controlling the roster and depth chart, sitting guys that he didn't draft or acquire I would bet (like Higgins and Chief). I think there is a lot that went on behind the scenes with John we don't know about. Read reports from KC and why he was fired there, it will paint a bigger picture for you.
John was an egomaniac. Plain and simple if you read all the reports.
From what MR. Haslam was intimating JD was good in some areas but not as good in others. Well, at least we got in partially right with JD. Let's see if we can get it completely right with this next hire. We are due.
From what MR. Haslam was intimating JD was good in some areas but not as good in others. Well, at least we got in partially right with JD. Let's see if we can get it completely right with this next hire. We are due.
Agree. I liked John, don't get me wrong. He was GREAT at finding talent, but as a GM you need to be able to do more. ESPECIALLY if you don't hire a leader as a HC, you need to be that LEADER. He wasn't.
From what MR. Haslam was intimating JD was good in some areas but not as good in others. Well, at least we got in partially right with JD. Let's see if we can get it completely right with this next hire. We are due.
Agree. I liked John, don't get me wrong. He was GREAT at finding talent, but as a GM you need to be able to do more. ESPECIALLY if you don't hire a leader as a HC, you need to be that LEADER. He wasn't.
If the picture that's being painted is true (Dorsey, being on the hook for the Freddie hire, wouldn't take accountibility nor take a reduced role because of his massive ego, was vulnerable because of his coach's epic failure and then fired because it became clear his ego was getting in the way), then I reluctantly support the decision to fire him (as little as that may mean to anyone other than me). If his ego was so big that he didn't want to fire Freddie... that's fireable all by itself.
But then people turning around saying he wasn't that good of a talent evaluator are just nuts. Dude redid our roster in record time. Yes, he had a ton of draft picks, but he also swung deals the likes of Randall for Kizer, drafted a guy that could potentially be a FQB (regardless how you feel about Baker, he's better than the likes of Kizer, Hue's "Trust me" guy who I can't remember, and so on through the last several years, brought in Hunt for peanuts, brought in a top5 WR that's just hitting his prime. Drafted arguably the best RB in the league (who began staking that claim straight out of the gate). Dude has his misses, and some of them are bad, but he's the best talent evaluator we've had since maybe Heckert, but probably back further than that. I highly doubt we will find someone that could do a better job in this department than him.
It sucks that his weaknesses were apparently so great that not even him strengths could keep him in his role.
Dorsey may not have been great but I had a lot more faith in him than I do Haslam, despite the Freddie Kitchens debacle.
About the only hope we have left is Depo actually nailed the last two head coaching debates. Does he have a third excellent recommendation in him (maybe Stefanski again?)
If we don't get the head coach right, we are totally screwed.
Look at the talent we have on this roster. A turtle could coach it to 7 or 8 wins. I think you are underestimating the "Freddie Debacle". Literally any other hire, and we are probably in the playoffs.
And reports are John wanted to keep him another year. John was very bull headed about analytics, and it was John controlling the roster and depth chart, sitting guys that he didn't draft or acquire I would bet (like Higgins and Chief). I think there is a lot that went on behind the scenes with John we don't know about. Read reports from KC and why he was fired there, it will paint a bigger picture for you.
John was an egomaniac. Plain and simple if you read all the reports.
There were pros and cons with Dorsey, no doubt. oobernoober did a nice job laying out the pros.
I don't believe hiring Freddie Kitchens alone was worth a firing. He got it wrong but GMs in his position often get a second chance at a head coach.
Wanting to keep Freddie may have been worth a firing, but there's really nothing other than unsubstantiated media reports that suggest that.
Long story short, I'm not in that building, I don't know what happened. I would like to think that the people in the building know what happened and know what they are doing, but past history makes me very uneasy about that.
From what MR. Haslam was intimating JD was good in some areas but not as good in others. Well, at least we got in partially right with JD. Let's see if we can get it completely right with this next hire. We are due.
Agree. I liked John, don't get me wrong. He was GREAT at finding talent, but as a GM you need to be able to do more. ESPECIALLY if you don't hire a leader as a HC, you need to be that LEADER. He wasn't.
If the picture that's being painted is true (Dorsey, being on the hook for the Freddie hire, wouldn't take accountibility nor take a reduced role because of his massive ego, was vulnerable because of his coach's epic failure and then fired because it became clear his ego was getting in the way), then I reluctantly support the decision to fire him (as little as that may mean to anyone other than me). If his ego was so big that he didn't want to fire Freddie... that's fireable all by itself.
But then people turning around saying he wasn't that good of a talent evaluator are just nuts. Dude redid our roster in record time. Yes, he had a ton of draft picks, but he also swung deals the likes of Randall for Kizer, drafted a guy that could potentially be a FQB (regardless how you feel about Baker, he's better than the likes of Kizer, Hue's "Trust me" guy who I can't remember, and so on through the last several years, brought in Hunt for peanuts, brought in a top5 WR that's just hitting his prime. Drafted arguably the best RB in the league (who began staking that claim straight out of the gate). Dude has his misses, and some of them are bad, but he's the best talent evaluator we've had since maybe Heckert, but probably back further than that. I highly doubt we will find someone that could do a better job in this department than him.
It sucks that his weaknesses were apparently so great that not even him strengths could keep him in his role.
I don't recall anyone saying he couldn't spot talent.
he go talent here, but lets be honest, with the amount of cap he had and the amount of draft picks at his disposal - I think he could have done better.
1. When building a team, the most important part is TEAM. You have to have guys willing to play as a team first. Dorsey put talent over team, and that was a big reason we had the issues we did.
2. He drafted Corbett before he drafted Chubb. Lets not forget that. If it wasn't for the Osweiler trade, which was orchestrated by Depo.
3. Randall for Kizer was a steal
4. He cut Nassib and C. Smith, and traded Ogbah and Avery for whoever that white guy was we had playing at the end of the year that couldn't beat a block to save his life. These were terrible moves.
5. Forced Ratley and Hodges on us, when Higgins is clearly the better the player. If he was so great at talent eval, why?
Our two best players on this team are Myles and Chubb. He didn't draft Myles, and he wouldn't have been able to draft Chubb if not for someone else. . . .
Im not sure anyone is saying Dorsey is a bad talent evaluator. He was a horrible GM.
The talent evaluator we had prior to Dorsey was better. I actually liked Heckert and I thought Farmer was good as well, but he was not a good GM, either.
Dorsey created more holes than he filled. A lot of his roster turnover was unnecessary. We were on the verge of turning the corner by adding a few key pieces. It's a shame Dorsey was unable to recognize this and felt he had to overturn the entire roster. Our roster isn't much better if at all notree than he was when he arrived.
I would like to think that the people in the building know what happened and know what they are doing, but past history makes me very uneasy about that.
There is a lot of past history on John that suggest what got him fired in KC is what lead to them parting ways here.
I just don't think he was the savior that some think he was.
There are better GMs in football to be had. I want the best. He maybe great at talent eval, but he was not great as a GM.
"1. When building a team, the most important part is TEAM. You have to have guys willing to play as a team first. Dorsey put talent over team, and that was a big reason we had the issues we did. "
This is a good point and I agree. If there's a major knock I have about Dorsey's talent he brought in, it's this (even moreso than some of the obvious misses, ala Corbett.)
Sometimes it's hard to tease out what's going on when players are distractions or don't know where to line up, or what have you. Is it because the coach doesn't know what he's doing/lacks discipline, or did the GM bring in players who were unprepared/unprofessional, or not smart enough to learn the scheme?
I think there are often elements of both and you can see it in other teams as well. For example, one refrain you sometimes hear regarding New England is that, Belichick the coach covers up for Belichick the GM. There may be some truth to that, but I also think that Belichick the coach benefits greatly from having players who are football smart and coachable.
There may be some truth to that, but I also think that Belichick the coach benefits greatly from having players who are football smart and coachable.
Quoted for truth. We have talent that think they can just show up and win. They were coached like that from the HC, and brought in like that from the GM.
I would take 5 Edelmans over 5 OBJ's any day in a WR room.
When it became obvious that Kitchens needed help with play calling, Dorsey did not step in and say, "Freddie, let's give Monken a chance to see what he can do. After all, he had the # 1 passing offense in the league last year..."
The point about drafting Chubb behind Corbett is a great point, and one that I forgot. That's going a little further down the 'what if' rabbit hole than I'd like to go, but it's very fair to point out. I don't discount the bounty of resources left to Dorsey from Sashi and co.
IMO, the theory that Dorsey was exerting so much influence over Freddie that he dictated who would and wouldn't play is a little too tinfoil-hat for me. I put the non-play of Higgins and Njoku on Freddie. I'm open to hearing concrete proof otherwise (and then I'll admit wrong), but until then that's on Freddie and not Dorsey. I also don't think the losses of Nassib or Smith hurt our overall talent. Nassib was a bubble guy when he was here. He had no moves and no power, sounds like he turned that around somehow, but that happened after he left. We did not cut a premier player when we cut him. The Smith cut was the same, if sad. Perhaps that could've been handled better, but it was pretty much agreed upon that the guy just wasn't getting it done. Churning the bottom of the roster, we call it.
device, If you think Farmer and SashiCo. were better talent evaluators than Dorsey.... that's crazy. But yes... Dorsey appears to be a terrible GM. I do want to be clear that based on what we've been hearing, it sounds like Dorsey wasn't doing a good enough job as a GM, and Haslam (to his credit) tried to puhs him back to a role that highlighted his strengths, and Dorsey's ego wouldn't have it. Good on Haslam, actually. I may be getting defensive about Dorsey, so I want to clarify that think I understand what went down. Just sucks that, once again, the org running the team pulled itself apart.
Avery did nothing but good things while he was here. Then he was left off the gameday roster until he was traded. Our coaching staff misused a lot of our young talent, and that doesn't make them bad picks/players. Avery made plenty of positive plays, so I'm sticking with a thumbs up for him. Would love to know the story behind him, though... in case I'm wrong.
Its been reported that Freddie was hired because John would have his thumb on the HC and control him. We saw John trade Hyde to force a coaches hand to play his guy (that worked out and was a smart), but do you really think he wouldn't force Freddie to sit Higgins to play his guy?
He told Haley/Hue to play chubb, and they played Hyde. He traded hyde to "flex his muscles". He was told not to hire Freddie - that he was ready. He hired Freddie to "flex his muscles"
Theres too much smoke behind it if you ask me.
Quote:
but until then that's on Freddie and not Dorsey. I also don't think the losses of Nassib or Smith hurt our overall talent. Nassib was a bubble guy when he was here.
Nassib had more sacks than anyone on our team not named Myles. Nassib was a solid player here and was making strides. It was a terribe move to trade him, especially when we have little depth. Nassib BY FAR out performed Vernon.
Quote:
Perhaps that could've been handled better, but it was pretty much agreed upon that the guy just wasn't getting it done. Churning the bottom of the roster, we call it.
I am ok with cutting Smith, ONLY if we got someone better to replace him. That's the issue, we didn't get anyone better. Why cut a guy if your not going to replace him with someone better? That's the point of cutting them, right?
Avery did nothing but good things while he was here. Then he was left off the gameday roster until he was traded. Our coaching staff misused a lot of our young talent, and that doesn't make them bad picks/players. Avery made plenty of positive plays, so I'm sticking with a thumbs up for him. Would love to know the story behind him, though... in case I'm wrong.
Its been reported that Freddie was hired because John would have his thumb on the HC and control him. We saw John trade Hyde to force a coaches hand to play his guy (that worked out and was a smart), but do you really think he wouldn't force Freddie to sit Higgins to play his guy?
He told Haley/Hue to play chubb, and they played Hyde. He traded hyde to "flex his muscles". He was told not to hire Freddie - that he was ready. He hired Freddie to "flex his muscles"
Theres too much smoke behind it if you ask me.
Quote:
but until then that's on Freddie and not Dorsey. I also don't think the losses of Nassib or Smith hurt our overall talent. Nassib was a bubble guy when he was here.
Nassib had more sacks than anyone on our team not named Myles. Nassib was a solid player here and was making strides. It was a terribe move to trade him, especially when we have little depth. Nassib BY FAR out performed Vernon.
Quote:
Perhaps that could've been handled better, but it was pretty much agreed upon that the guy just wasn't getting it done. Churning the bottom of the roster, we call it.
I am ok with cutting Smith, ONLY if we got someone better to replace him. That's the issue, we didn't get anyone better. Why cut a guy if your not going to replace him with someone better? That's the point of cutting them, right?
Smith had done nothing this season. In 9 games he had 1 assist, 1 QB hit, and 1 pass defensed. He went through a tragedy with his girlfriend, and that was horrible ..... but he wasn't an asset on the field.
Cox looked like he could be a future rotational piece, and he was more productive than Smith.
Teams move out non-productive veterans all the time. Smith's limited production wasn't all his fault, obviously, but they brought up a young player, and allowed Smith to deal with his situation. By the way, as a vested veteran, he received his entire salary for this season.
Nassib had plateau'd by the time we cut him. We was neck-and-neck with the LB with the wife that baked the cookies (Hard Knocks) that we overdrafted. The guy had hype going into each season and fizzled every time. He was not making strides, he had stagnated. Sorry, but most folks around here were tired of the yearly "Nassib is finally going to click this season".
C. Smith was churning the bottom of the roster. You don't know who/what is going to bubble up in his place. Might be better, might be worse, probably will be more of the same. That's how it goes.
Nassib had plateau'd by the time we cut him. We was neck-and-neck with the LB with the wife that baked the cookies (Hard Knocks) that we overdrafted. The guy had hype going into each season and fizzled every time. He was not making strides, he had stagnated. Sorry, but most folks around here were tired of the yearly "Nassib is finally going to click this season".
That's why he had more sacks than anyone else this year on our team not named myles, you cant just make stuff up. If he "plateau'd" why did he produce this year in Tampa? lol
He is a good player, and better than ANYONE we replaced with him. That's is a FACT.
Nassib had plateau'd by the time we cut him. We was neck-and-neck with the LB with the wife that baked the cookies (Hard Knocks) that we overdrafted. The guy had hype going into each season and fizzled every time. He was not making strides, he had stagnated. Sorry, but most folks around here were tired of the yearly "Nassib is finally going to click this season".
That's why he had more sacks than anyone else this year on our team not named myles, you cant just make stuff up. If he "plateau'd" why did he produce this year in Tampa? lol
He is a good player, and better than ANYONE we replaced with him. That's is a FACT.
Right, but we got Vernon who was injury riddled the last three seasons for $15.5 million in 2019.....for Zeitler no less!
He had 2.5 sacks his first year, and 2 his second year. IIRC, both years, most if not all of those sacks occurred in bunches and in the early parts of both seasons. I believe many attributed this to his very fast first step, but not having a whole lot behind that (in terms of moves). In other words, he came out the gate on fire and then fizzled. Both years.
In his two years at TB, he's had 6.5 and 6 sacks, respectively, in his 2 years there. His tackles have gone up slightly each year. Interestingly, his assisted tackles seem to bounce around a bit.
Yes, he's done well since he left. No, he was not this solid/special player you're making him out to be when he was here. He was very very ordinary.
He had 2.5 sacks his first year, and 2 his second year. IIRC, both years, most if not all of those sacks occurred in bunches and in the early parts of both seasons. I believe many attributed this to his very fast first step, but not having a whole lot behind that (in terms of moves). In other words, he came out the gate on fire and then fizzled. Both years.
In his two years at TB, he's had 6.5 and 6 sacks, respectively, in his 2 years there. His tackles have gone up slightly each year. Interestingly, his assisted tackles seem to bounce around a bit.
Yes, he's done well since he left. No, he was not this solid/special player you're making him out to be when he was here. He was very very ordinary.
I never said he was special. He is absolutely solid, if you don't think he is, you don't know what your watching - actually, I don't think your watching, I think you are just stat pulling to try to make a case.
Which you did, you made MY case.
The dude is consistent, and has gotten better from his first two years in the league. he has outperformed EVERYONE on our roster at his position not named Myles Garrett. Do you know how to build a team? You draft guys in later rounds and develop them into good solid players. You cant have a team full of Myles Garretts. You need Nassibs, Bud Duprees, and guys that get hard work in and provide good football at a decent price that you can keep on your roster for a good amount of years. This isnt madden with the salary cap turned off.
NO ONE is saying Nassib is a pro bowler, but to release a guy that is BETTER than any option you have on your roster (especially one that has shown is a developing young player) its idiotic.
The ONLY thing the Haslam's have proven to any of us is their inability to hire a competent staff and their inability to show any patience. I have zero faith in the the Haslam's. After all, why should I, or we? They have given us nothing but instability and a very poor product.
We may have an extremely talented locker room compared to past years, but we are still mired in a cloud of dysfunction and turmoil.
I will repeat once again that the Haslam's had their coach years ago and they let him walk away. Kyle Shanahan should have been promoted to HC after the 2014 season, but our stupid, egotistical owners couldn't see brilliance if it stared right at them. Actually, brilliance did stare at them, but before Jimmy & Dee could blink he grabbed his stuff and rightfully headed south to Atlanta and then on to bigger and better things in San Francisco.
If they hire Daboll we are doomed. And, I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes their choice.
I don't believe anyone was doing the thing you're saying about Nassib. No one ever expected Nassib to be a super star. And I don't recall anyone saying this is the year Nassib breaks out. To say you were tired of that happening every year seems crazy because he was only here two.
Nassib would be a fantastic role player and would have come in handy with Vernon and Garrett out. He was a developmental player and with proper coaching could have a very good NFL career. I think he's been developed nicely by his coaches. He may never be hall of Famer, but he certainly would add value to the roster.
Dorsey doesn't draft well, and his idea of drafting is taking a chance on red flag players who should be drafted much earlier because of talent but aren't because of attitude, etc. Callaway didn't work out, Tyreek did, sorta. I believe Hill had off field issues this past season.
Without the extra picks the previous regime acquired, we'd have only Baker and Corbett from the 2018 draft. No Ward, no Chubb. That's crazy.
And I didn't say Dorsey was a bad talent evaluator, there are just obviously some better than he.
Bud Dupree was 1st round draft pick for the Steelers - just saying.
I do agree with you about Nassib.
and he produced about the same as Nassib his first 4 years in the league. He has 2 more sacks that Nassib in that time frame which again just backs my point, that you don't trade a guy that was drafted where Nassib was and producing the same amount as a 1st pick has been. lol He is productive, cheap, and a solid player.
Especially when you don't have someone to replace him. Great GMs don't create holes on a roster just to create a hole.
I think the conversation has already run its course, but I'm aggravated because of what I'm seeing as some revisionist history. Willit, It's unfortunate you didn't read some/most of my post. You mentioned sacks before me, so I gave you the sack #s. I also noticed his total tackles. I also went into what I believe was behind those #s (quick first step with not much else), but I'm working off memory... which is iffy at best. But yes... stat pulling...
I did do a quick search of the archives. Found one long thread of when those cuts came down. There were 5 posters saying Nassib was 'just a guy' (I'm paraphrasing) that wouldn't be a huge loss to 1 person that mentioned Nassib and that we would miss him. Not evidence... sure, just further explanation of what I'm saying (at the time, cutting Nassib wasn't seen as that big of a deal, because of his performance). There was FAR more consternation over cutting Meder. The guy that Nassib was supposedly battling for a roster spot was the illustrious Nate Orchard. They were both cut.
By far the most overrated player to ever leave here ....
STATS ARE FOR .... well u know ...
Obviously you did read anything that was posted. No one is overrating him, but stating a FACT that he is better than anyone we else we have is not overrating him. He is better than the guys we replaced him with. you cannot argue that.
When did i say he did nothing wrong ... He made plenty of mistakes, just like they all do ...
Getting rid of Nassib wasn’t one of them ... Kendricks was a much much bigger mistake ...
His biggest mistake got him fired ... i missed on that one too ... *L* ...
Dude did an OUTSTANDING JOB bringing in talent ... thank god for that cause the only shot we have to win til your kids old enough to drink is with the talent he left behind ...
I would take Genard Avery over Nassib any day of the week.
And where did fearless leader John send him? Another great move.
Exactly. Avery is a developmental player as well, but his raw talent immediately stood out much brighter than Nassib's ever did.
And yet neither on the roster, also, Avery was a LB, Nassib was an DE - so comparing the two really is apple and oranges.
We finished the year with less players at that position, for no reason.
He may have been a LB, but we played him at both DE and LB, yet couldn't find a spot for him. However, in 2018 when he did see the field he showed much greater promise than Nassib ever did.
Is that because the players were bad or because Dorsey was cleaning house for the sake of cleaning house?
(Probably a little of both.)
Well ... what worthwhile players did we have that he let go.
I can think of Seth Devalve, Jason McCourty, Jamie Meder, and maybe Nassib as possibilities ....... and Jamie Collins, though he never seemed interested in playing here.
I was not a big fan of Peppers ... so I didn't care that he was traded.
Is that because the players were bad or because Dorsey was cleaning house for the sake of cleaning house?
(Probably a little of both.)
Well ... what worthwhile players did we have that he let go.
I can think of Seth Devalve, Jason McCourty, Jamie Meder, and maybe Nassib as possibilities ....... and Jamie Collins, though he never seemed interested in playing here.
I was not a big fan of Peppers ... so I didn't care that he was traded.
Everyone is mad that we fired Dorsey, I get it, he got a lot of names in here.
But other than being good at a talent evaluator, what did he do well?
No one can answer that, because we have no idea what he was like on a day to day basis. Reports are he was brash, hard to work with, "his way or the highway", and overall was not really great at managing a cap. We know hes crap at picking a HC, reports are he let Baker do whatever he wanted, and other reports are if you didn't get brought in by him or drafted by him, he didn't want you here.
He sucked at parts of his position plain and simple, and his employer wanted to take away those parts from him, which he refused.
But to act like the guy was perfect is well - not logical.
The more I look into him and read repots, the more I think we can do better.
I agree. He is a scout. A GM also has to be a manager, a forward thinker. He isn't.
Sounds a lot like Savage if you ask me, except I do think Savage has a higher IQ.
For all the money Haslam pays to past coaches, is there a point where it becomes cheaper to move the expansion browns, then sell them, buy the ravens, and bring them back to cleveland?
He was a worse human being than he is owner .... guess thats not true ... he’s been the worst owner in the history of sports so far and as big a dirtbag as he was there’s been much much much worse human beings ...
His 1st move had me extremely worried ... hiring Banned was moronic ... then he hired Chud and when Norv came on board I had hope again ... then after one year he fired chud ...
I heard something on the radio yesterday. They said that the 2owners, in the major sports, with the worst overall records, are Ted Stephen...... In 2nd worst...... And our own beloved Jimmy Haslem with the worst winning percentageYea us!
... 