I am not a huge fan of paying a backup QB $10 million guaranteed.

That's kinda surprising, not surprising.

Wow.

Dudes are flat-out killing it today!

WHOA

and there's our decent backup QB .. sign a decent middle LB and it's on to the draft ...

Cool, that’s probably the best backup you can get.

You HAVE to hedge your bets on Mayfield this year.

Well, i think we got our top 3 targets

I will reserve judgment till I see what Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota get to be backups.

I don't think it's just that. If Mayfield gets hurt we don't have to pack in the season.

He's a starting Quality backup QB .. If Baker thinks he knows it all and won't accept coaching, Keenum can be a starter.

he will push Baker... and help out Baker. Thats what Baker was missing last year. No Tyrod Taylor and no true QB Coach. Now he has both. no excuses. If Baker gets hurt, or really struggles, Stefanski knows he has Keenum to fill the void.

Yes, that too. I kinda skipped right over the obvious lol.

Witch one of them has experience in Kev’’s system ...

Winston ... .... at least Marcus isn’t a pick machine ...

As backups I'd take both over Keenum. I'll be interested to see their contracts.

Agree, if Baker shows up fat and more interested in his commercials than winning games, we have new QB who has thrived in a system he knows......competition, love it....GO Browns!!!

I like this... if Bake goes down.. we still have a chance. i like it.

Only way there comparable is if they go to a team with a bonafide starter .... Case was brought in 100% as a back up ... those two may very well end up on teams like the raiders or bears or one of the other many teams looking to “push” there starting QB ...

It depends on where they end up to me ... they may not be the true back up Case is ...

I do like the idea of having an adult in the QB room (along with SVP). I think Baker, Lindley, Stanton, and Gilbert basically had a frat house last year.

Yeah, it seemed like there wasn’t much coaching and accountability

I would argue that if you pay a backup $10 million guaranteed then he is being brought in to push the starter.

Worst case scenario...they have not liked what they've seen or heard from Baker this offseason.

3 years .. 18 million .. 10 mil guaranteed .. That averages out to 6 mil per year. That is a good ( reasonable ) salary for an NFL Quarterback with good starting experience, as well as experience in the system being used.

Good signing. Knows Stefanski’s offense.

Can win you a game if needed.

Doubt it. Keenum is a plug n play backup.

j/c:

I like this move. I don't know about the "value," but Keenum is a quality qb and had success as a starter w/the Vikings.

I was not happy w/Dorsey's backups last year. Case is huge upgrade!

It will be interesting to see how Baker handles this. He didn't seem to get along w/Taylor. It was like he expected to be handed the starters job. He did get along w/Drew, who he was ahead of.

The Baker/Keenum relationship is one to watch closely. I'm not making any predictions right now, but it's going to be interesting.

Agree - huge upgrade over last year's back ups.

Don't think there can be any doubt - at $6 million per year - that is back up money. I don't think this puts any additional pressure on Baker .... if Baker doesn't play a lot better than last year he doesn't deserve to be a starting QB.

I remember Chase Daniels making $7 mill a year at Philadelphia a couple of years ago. So this isn't so bad.

Argue it all u want ...

Case STUNK the last two years when starting and has some glaring holes in his game ... GREAT BACK UP especially here but if we brought him in to push Bake these guys are either dumb as rocks or were $crewed cause Bake stinks if he isn’t better than the 3/4’s of a year wonder known as Case ...

It will be.

I think it is clear Baker is the #1 guy, but Case is a good QB. Bake can't add another 10 lbs, especially since Case and Stefanski have a relationship.

I think it is perfect. We got a guy who doesn't spell QB controversy, but should ignite a spark in our starter.

A perfect signing. If Baker slugs around, I have no problem with Keenum. He isn't here to simply be a mentor. He is here to win some games if he plays.

Love Baker but I like this move, I don't think it will cause Baker to look over his shoulder but it will make for more competitiveness

There's a reason for that. As of now we don't have any idea which Baker we will get. Will we get the rookie, 2018 Baker? Or will we get the second year, 2019 Baker?

I know that will set some peoples hair on fire and excuses will get made for his play. But people have no excuse why he was less accurate.

I'm hoping we get rookie Baker and things go smoothly. But having a solid plan B is what a smart FO should do in our situation.

I don't care about the money. He is a viable #2 QB

We still need to sign a Saftey and LBer.

Good start though.

Also, Baker is still on his rookie deal. Makes it a little easier to dish out for Keenum.

Keenum and Baker can talk football during the offseason. Baker and the coaches can't. I'm guessing getting a jumpstart on the offense is part of the reason we signed him, along with him being a capable player. Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how much of the offense is changing from the time Case and Stefanski were Minnesota. We do get the early camp with the change in staffs, so they should be able to get up to speed then.

That or we're trading Baker to the Patriots for Thuney and picks.

Very solid signing.
Higher-end backup, & like others said, a guy who can win games in a pinch.

I believe Baker will be working his tail off this off-season. He damn well better be.

After the season, he talked about how disappointed he was in his play. Baker needs to follow that up with some hard work.

Excellent!!

Solid signing... case is a solid qb and great guy... knowing the offense already is huge help for baker

Not as great as a leading QB but a journeyman that could help your Baker develop.

It all depends if Baker listens to Case and wants to learn from him or if Baker continues to be Baker and views Case as an adversary.

I have no proof, but I think that TT was gone because Baker couldn't accept that Taylor was a challenger.

I know it's a lot of speculation, but the entire thing w/Hue, Haley, Freddie, TT, and Drew as just too much to ignore.

One more time.................this is a huge year for Baker. He needs to adjust his attitude and put the work in. He needs to be more accountable and stop w/the mindset of things being handed to him. He has the arm talent. He has the moxie. Now, does he have the emotional maturity, ability to evolve, and work ethic it takes to succeed?

You don’t know Mayfield personally, so stop speculating. “Baker being Baker”. Stop it. You don’t know the guy from Adam, you just post this stuff over and over. Making up the psychodrama about his interactions with everyone.

And, no, I don’t care that you’ve been a fan since the 1500s.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2887...ig-signing-move

The deal: Three years, $18 million
Grade: B-

I often argue that teams should pursue backup quarterbacks who look and play like their starters. There's a little bit of Baker Mayfield in Keenum. Like Mayfield, Keenum had his success in college as an Air Raid quarterback. Like Mayfield, Keenum is undersized for the position at 6-foot-1. And like Mayfield, Keenum had a year that made the current Browns braintrust think they could go a long way with him at quarterback.

Of course, that one year -- 2017 -- serves as a huge outlier for Keenum's career, when he took over for an injured Sam Bradford and pushed the Vikings all the way to the NFC Championship Game. Over the ensuing two years in Denver and Washington, Keenum has been stuck in bad situations. The Broncos had a terrible offensive line, and Washington saw Keenum as a stopgap after ownership decided to draft Dwayne Haskins.


Browns coach Kevin Stefanski was the quarterbacks coach in Minnesota with Keenum in 2017, so it's no surprise that the Browns targeted Keenum to serve as the backup behind Mayfield. Keenum is just good enough to give the Browns a chance to win if Mayfield gets hurt and just uninteresting enough to avoid shaking Mayfield's confidence. That's exactly the line you want to tow with your backup quarterback.

Tyrod Taylor was no longer a challenger once Baker Mayfield started some games. He was a backup. He was also a free agent.

We traded a third round pick for Tyrod Taylor. He started three games and made $16 million.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2887...ig-signing-move

You're being way too kind... TT's challenge to Baker was over before he left the pop-up tent.

May be. Baker also doesn't have the same type of investment in him with the new crew as he did with the old crew. So if what you are saying is indeed correct, I would expect any "me or him" talk to be snuffed out pretty quickly by Stefanski.

Just sayin'...

I don't think anything depends on whether or not Baker listens to Keenum. If Baker continues to be Baker, and if he continues with the same attitude that took him from walk-on to Heisman winner, the kid is going to be fantastic in this league and will have a terrific season (if we get that far).

I still think some fans have a misconception of Baker that isn't true and will say things like he needs to work harder or is too immature to fit their agenda, when in fact they have no proof otherwise.

Lol. Talk about agendas.

Hue - worst coach in NFL history
Haley - an arrogant arse that tried to sabotage his HC
Freddie - a woefully unprepared one and done HC
TT - a mediocre at best qb that was hired as a stopgap
Drew - a backup qb with little talent...if Baker didn't listen to him, it was probably a good thing, lol.

Satisfactory. Backup QB that can play. Decent insurance as far as backups can be lumped under insurance.

Any evaluations for us on his play? I think he is a solid pickup.

I fixed it for you.

Not surprisingly, some folks are still defending Baker and his antics, after having one of the worst years in a long, long time at the qb position.

And then they try and make fun of others.

You can't make this stuff up.

Dang, Vers! You're not just getting up there in years, you're an antique...

A Browns fan before it was cool.

I'm trying to keep things to football .... and I don't know if you are lumping me in with that comment because I said Hue is the 2nd worst and Freddie the worst HC in NFL history (which are probably both true statements) .... what I find frustrating is that you seem to be the only poster in pure football that comments as much about what others do or don't post as you do just talking football. I seriously don't get it. If someone I don't think has a high football iq posts nonsense, I don't respond. It's easy. But then what happens is that later in a thread if I don't or others don't respond to the idiot post I don't agree with, it get's used against me if I comment on a different post by someone who I do think has football smarts. It's like a never ending merry go round.

If he needs to play, you'll be happier about it.

Why should any fans care what a player is making? Unless one fancies them selves as the GM or something ... in which case they need to step down from off of their high horse.

Just give us a team that we can all root for.

Too bad that guy just rolled his eyes and couldn't run an offense.

Personally I think he could have run a really good offense - he chose not to in an effort to undermine Hue and was looking to be the HC himself. . . . just my opinion.

While I won't dismiss that as being wrong, I do find it pretty far fetched. My reasoning is a s follows. The vast majority of the time when a HC gets fired, the entire staff gets fired and a new HC from outside the organization gets brought in.

If that was his tactic, it was a pretty long shot gamble.

JC...I'm just glad we didnt sign Chase Daniel, Keenum is a good back up with experience...and obviously the connection to our staffing made sense.

Agreed. Case could be the backup here for a very, very very long time.

That damn Lindley. I'm still pissed with him.

Didn't Baker want both Freddie and Lindley?

Sure...Baker flexed Dorsey's muscles and got what he wanted.

I'm sorry. My above quote was incorrect. I thought I read that, but I was mistaken. I apologize if I mislead anyone and this is a clarification post:



That is an excerpt from here: https://sanduskyregister.com/news/27343/...ith-maturation/


Clearly, I was wrong. I'm sorry. I believe in speaking the truth and I was wrong in this particular situation.

This is a great signing.

I won't be suprised if he ends up playing much sooner than expected.

Mayfield has questions around heart and desire...He came into camp last year over weight, you could tell he didn't work on his craft.

Mayfield has all the tools, but does he have the disipline and the desire to want to be great and put in the work to do so? thats the question. Im not talking about coming to camps, etc...im talking 2 weeks after the season is done the kid is back to 8 hours a day in the film room studying and working to get better...I question if Mayfield is that kinda guy...hopefully last year makes him realize he needs to be.

If things go south, I won't be surprised if Stephanski turns to his friend Keenum whom he knows and probably trusts. He signed with us very quickly.

I guess we will see. Hopefully last year was an abberation for Mayfield and he bounces back I just want to win and hopefully he can pull off.

That's a big negative.


A post like this should be deleted for lies.

j/c...

very good signing as he knows the system.

A lot of Negative Baker posts here, don't know where Vers gets this overwhelming support he is stating???

Anyways don't understand as Baker has alway...ALWAYS been coachable. If he wasn't last season very simple, he did not have one. Well active one that is.

Our new coach has made no bones about it and I don't see any fight against Stefanski.

Where does this fat stuff come in? Any pics of this or possible some fotoshop stuff...lol

Back to Case he is the perfect backup QB and a good presence to the QB room of once again a NEW SYSTEM to all!

jmho make no mistake about this. We got our Franchise QB but many here wish to nail him to the wall as he had a terrible sophmore year with a pretty bad OL and a pretty bad HC/OC...

I was not one of the biggest supporters of us drafting Baker, but even then I would never question his heart and desire.

He must have been hiding that heart last year under the weight gain.

It was really nice watching all his commercials while he stunk on the field....exactly what you want out of your QB. I get NFL isn't long career for most, but come on- he had his priorities wrong. Early success gave him that Johnny "Money" feel, I'm going to tear this league up....WRONG...hope he turns over a new leaf.....GO Browns!!!!

It's not like they were filmed live every time you saw them. The commercials probably took less than a week in the offseason combined.

There are plenty of things to complain about. The fact that the guy made a few commercials isn't really one of them.

Like everyone else, players shouldn't have people getting upset that they're making money while they can.

Commercials make great times to leave the tv for food, drinks etc, anyways. You don't have to stick around and watch them repeatedly.

It should be nice to have an adult (or 2, AVP and Keenum) in the QB room again.

I know Progressive said Baker's commercials took 2 days. I can't imagine that crappy Hulu commercial taking a half day. What am I missing? Did he do anything local in the Cleveland market?

Nope, not really.

I think some folks think he ducks out of the huddle to climb into the commercial booth between plays, or something.

I think the overarching point of Baker not taking the offseason seriously enough is true enough... but the commercial thing is way overblown.

I think it's just a small ingredient in the overall picture of priorities.

Agreed. It was what, 2 days of filming?

And this is for the guy drafted #1.. to be the face of a franchise. I'd say setting aside time for commercials and public events IS among the priorities and responsibilities of the position.

I used to shoot commercials. a 30 sec spot takes about 10 mins to shoot with the talent, all the hard work goes into post production, and Baker would have nothing to do with that. I think there are 5 commercials. They could have shot Baker's part of it in a morning, and he would still be at afternoon practice, with all his commercial work in the can.

Go ahead and keep drinking the kool-aid. Mayfield showed up to camp fat and out of shape with a beer gut. Its obvious how he spent his offseason. Don't give me that crap about the weight room he looked the same everywhere except the gut he got by drinking beers. the kid thought he had things figured out, he had no idea.

I really don't get this whole "cult" like following around Mayfield. Its frightening actually the lengths people will go to make excuses for him.

I said he played well in 2018, I gave him many props for how he played, but don't delude ourselves...The kid showed up fat to TC, was obvious he wasn't prepared, was crystal clear to anyone that he hadn't spent the time studying that he needed to do.

Lets see what he does this year, but color me unoptimistic...lazy guys usually just don't change their ways...he thinks he has made it in the big time and Mayfield puts me in the mind of a guy who just satisfied to be on TV and get a check...we will see this year if im wrong.

Similarly, I don't get the obsessive skewering people feel like they need to do on Mayfield every chance. I'll point back to the commercial thing. It's not enough to say that he didn't take the offseason seriously enough (and he admitted as much), but people need to fabricate this story that he spent the majority of his time seeking out and making commercials.

The dude had to fight and grind far more for his spots in college than most (if not all) of his QB colleagues. Question his talent, potential, and his past planning for the offseason all you want (I'll be right there with you) but the moment folks question his desire or 'want to' is really just announcing you don't know what you're talking about and don't care as long as you get to smear your team's starting QB.

You could do worse for a backup QB than Keenam. Not sure why they felt the need to pay him $6 million per

Totally agree

Those are all 100% FACT.

I think the views from most folks regarding Baker is like poor readers who see words on a page instead of reading between the lines, using context clues, making inferences, and drawing conclusions.

Folks can focus on the commercials and rip him for that. Poor readers. Others, can dismiss them w/out looking at other things. Poor readers.

I think a smart reader would start w/the conclusion that was the season. Then, look at all available evidence to figure out how he got to that point. And yes oober, coaching is one aspect. There are a lot of other factors in play, as well.

Looking at Baker objectively is not really permitted on this board, though. Some folks will freak out if verifiable stats are used and turn the thread into another episode of personality bashing.

Did he bulk up because he's lazy or because he expected to get abused throwing more deep passes after trading away Zeitler and not improving at OT? Despite taking a pounding, especially early in the year, he started all 16 games. How many QBs can we say that about here recently?

The other thing is he can't study for other people. It takes all 11 on the field. Plus, the coaches. You can't study everything, all the time. You mainly study what your playcaller tells you is in the plan. If you had an exam and it covered topics you hadn't covered recently and didn't expect to be on it, you probably wouldn't do very well.

We need to smooth out the whole operation.

Baker needs to do better. It's true. How much of the regression was a product of the environment is what we're going to find out.

He does need to improve from his awful season, and I think he will. I think coaching will help him improve, but he's also shown before that he can grind and improve his game. He's done it (to a limited extent) in both his NFL seasons so far.

I feel like I'm being Baker's White Knight, and I hate that. His play sucked last year and a lot of that is on him, but it just irks me when the criticism goes from constructive (if harsh) to illogical.

I think it is good that you defend him. You do so w/turning it into a personality contest. Debate is a good thing.

I think that's how a lot of people feel. There is not a single poster anywhere that said Baker played well last year. There isn't a single poster anywhere that said Baker doesn't need to improve. But there are certainly a small number of posters who hated the pick and have rushed to pronounce him a bust and a bum and lazy and fat and now we have a baseless claim that the walk-on who won the Heisman is heartless. Yeah it gets old. Baker owns plenty of his own bad play. There's also many other factors that contributed. It's not hard.

See what I am talking about? LOL

The only thing Mayfield does well is throw passes hard. He has no touch, his footwork is awful, he can't play action fake, because he thinks that's beneath him. Seriously how dumb do you have to be to take a QB who got tackled into a wall by the Police?

And how much of it was him taking the advice of people he trusted like Freddie who told him to step away from the game for a bit to decompress? We always talk about how young players need to learn how to do it in the NFL... it doesn't help when the people who are supposed to be teaching him aren't providing the instruction.

I take offense at these continuous snide swipes at me and other posters.

The ONLY post between Oob's post and this one of yours was mine:



And since YOU are the one who CONSTANTLY belittles other posters. Calls them liars. Tells them what they should and should not post about .... it';s really hypocritical to post these BS posts where you respond to yourself or to another poster -- but attack a 3rd poster.

Grow up.

j/c,

I am not so sure that Baker did not tank it last year, as to secure the firing of Freddie Kitchens.

There was a lot of BS that must have gone on behind the scenes.

Haven't heard that one. Freddie was his guy.

I guess things could have gotten so bad that this is true.

"Bulk up"? He gained weight but bulked up? Come on man.....

I'm not the first one to use it. It's been said in multiple stories.

You may not be the first to use it, but we all saw him first hand. I guess if you call putting on weight bulking up, you would be correct.

He had a very muscular stomach last year ...

You might have called it a twelve pack.

Tim Couch 2.0... soon poster will be telling us how we ruined a good QB...

Mayfield should win the QB competition in camp, if he's not good enough to beat Case, then we have to move on.

His chances should be those. Win the job first. He is a walkon with a winner mentality, shouldn't be a problem to him.

Last i recall, you throw with your arms and legs. Not sure stomach comes into play that much - core perhaps.

So you don't think that body fat index matters when saying someone "bulked up"?

I remember when George Blanda and Billy Kilmer were thought of as having beer guts. Looking at pictures of them, and of Mayfield last year, I can see the similarities. At least Baker's not as big as Jared Lorenzen was.

all power comes from your core and your hips. Arms and legs are just levers.

Bulked up implies gaining weight from increased muscle mass.

I justify hitting the submit button by telling myself that I'm not so much defending Baker, more defending constructive (if harsh) criticism vs baseless or illogical commentary.

See what I mean, oober? LOL

Priorities are defined by LEADERSHIP...we didn't have very good leadership if you ask me.

Yeah, not drinking any kool-aid. I'm also not going to lose my grip after a bad season from Mayfield.




This is also disingenuous.


What I can't believe is the amount of people, call them a cult if you will, who continue to make things up about Baker just because they seemingly don't like him...

Sorta like this comment:

Criticizing Baker is of course allowed. It's the lies I think people don't like. And you haven't been very objective with your opinions of Baker, have you?

Remember the "Baker Mayfield, The Person" thread you started? Yikes.

This was a great signing for one simple reason. He knows the new offense. Baker doesn't. Baker has never played in the West Coast Offense let alone this particular variety of it. Considering there probably won't be any camp or preseason games I wouldn't be surprised if CK started the first couple games if there even is a season this year. Truthfully, I will be surprised if there is any football at all in 2020. But if there is it will be a shortened season with very little run-up to the first game. It will be ugly and out of control and teams that have been together a while will have an even bigger advantage than usual.

We should stop patronizing and protecting some special players. Baker should win the starting job like everybody else. If he can't beat CK in camp he shouldn't start.

Worst thing we can do is go back to Tim Couch times. IMHO Baker lost the starting job with his play last year, its only up to him to win it back.

Well to be objective you have to be willing to treat overly positive posts about Baker - or posts where too much blame might be attributed to other factors: HC, Scheme changes, OL, WR's dropping passes or not knowing where to line up .... the same way as you treat overly critical and simple out right lies/conjecture/unfounded comments - those about heart, desire, ability, tanking etc.

I suppose when you see a poster claim to be the ONLY objective person on the board but then you see their posts overwhelmingly lean in one direction ... I guess the facts don't quite align with the claim.

And again. It's about personalities rather than football. Can't debate? Assassinate.

See what I mean? LOL

Trying to steer this back to football.

Baker was the number 1 overall pick. That is a huge investment. The smart move would be to give him adequate time. Thus, I think he should be the unquestioned starter heading into camp. I would do everything I could to make him successful. He has the arm talent to be special.

Hopefully, last year served to open his eyes. I'm hoping he will work harder this off-season. I do wish he would re-consider working w/a qb coach on his footwork and reads. Young men can learn from their mistakes.

If he struggles as much as he did last year, then the Browns could entertain replacing him w/Keenum at some point in the season. But, I think you have to roll w/Baker for as long as possible.

We’ll learn a lot about Bake this year ... we’ll know a lot more about who Bake is after this year ...

I think he was embarrassed last year and he usually reacts very well to having a chip on his shoulder ... i expect him to work hard, extremely hard ...

Hopefully the games not to fast for him and he can read D’s pre and post snap ...

Good Luck Bake ...

Steering it back to football and avoiding low blows...

Jameis was also the number 1 pick, the issue here is that we will achieve nothing if Baker does not develop and improve. Its always a bad strategy to throw good money to cover bad investments.

Having CK in camp and competing for the starting spot is a good thing, its not quitting on Baker, its just being rational.

If we had a viable QB backup last year, we would probably go to the playoffs.

Keenum isn't competing for the starting spot.

He was brought here to put an adult in the room and be a mentor for Baker.

I agree with Diam, we'll know a lot about Baker after this year.

I guess I'm "overly positive" because of some of the "overly negative."

There are a lot of factors that contributed to Baker's poor performance last year including Baker.

I'm still all in on the kid. I'm not wavering after last season. He's still the same kid who was the best prospect in the 2018 draft. Still the same kid who loves football. Still the same kid who loves his teammates and plays for his teammates. Still the same kid who wants to win.

It's the dumb things like why would you draft a quarterback #1 who couldn't outrun the cops? Baker is spending too much time making commercials. People are not allowed to talk bad about Baker, he can do no wrong, blah blah blah.... that kinda stuff makes me shake my head.

In my mind there's still no doubt Baker is going to be a great quarterback in this league. Is there a chance he's not? Sure. If that time comes, I'll eat my crow.

I know I am pretty objective about Baker. I know my objective comments have been taken as being overly protective of him or me trying to make excuses for him.... it's just what some folks do. The same folks then go on to belittle and criticize others and attack their posts - normally indirectly. If challenged and their non-football posts are commented on, they then go back to "can we talk about football" ... it's a cycle that's played out repeatedly many, many, many times before. I wouldn't worry about what others opinion is (I know you don't) and just write what you think/feel.

To this quote above - I was with you 100% on taking Baker at #1. I want him to do well and I have faith he's going to pull himself up and do what he needs to in order to be successful ... but I need to see it, and probably am not as confident as you that there is no doubt about him succeeding. Baker had lots of issues outside his control last year, some of them significant - but Rookie Baker would have handled those adversities much better than how he actually handled them, he would have been more accurate and thrown less int's - he regressed and he needs to change and work on a lot of things to be the franchise QB the Browns need. I believe he can but don't know that he will for sure.

Your unwavering support and belief in Baker is one of the things that still gives me hope. I figure that if you ever change your position, he's probably not going to be very good.

His absolute biggest obstacle to becoming a great QB is that he has slow eyes. When you can physically see a guy go through his progressions, that's not a good thing. That needs to be fixed. Even in his rookie year they were slow, but confidence, bravado, and unfamiliarity have a way to carry you for awhile.

I hope this new staff can bring the best out of him.

The extreme dichotomy is what shows pure inconsistency when it comes to Baker.

In 2018, according to some, everything Baker did well was all credited to Baker. In 2019 when he performed poorly, most of it was all someone else's fault.

The lack of consistency on the topic is overwhelming.

Good advice.

Like Diam said.......and I have said on multiple occasions in the last few months......this is a big year for Baker.

He was second in the league in interceptions last year. He was near the bottom of the league in almost all qb categories. He made more news for the things he said off the field and for challenging a fan to a fight than he did for doing good things on the field.

These things must change. I hope they do.

Pit - I disagree. I don't believe anyone gave Baker "ALL" the credit to Baker for success his rookie campaign, although what he did and how he did it were such a bright spot for a QB starved team that I am sure the praise was extensive and looking at film, he did make some excellent NFL caliber throws. . . I also disagree that people are saying "MOST" of the problems with Baker last year were someone else's fault. Looking at film it's clear Baker wasn't as accurate and missed open receivers even when a play worked 'perfectly' despite any other factors or issues, and those plays were all on Baker.

I see things much as you do. But when reading the board that opinion can vary greatly form one poster to the next.

I think that as a player, not looking at other circumstances, he regressed last year. I think as a rookie he gave us a lot of optimism.

As of now I think the book is yet to be written as to how it all plays out. Year three usually tells us a lot about a drafted player. As a Browns fan I think we can all agree we hope we see more of the rookie Baker than what we saw last year. Even possibly better than the rookie Baker.

I think the key to him exceeding his Rookie year performance is going to be his ability or speed of which he can read progressions and adjust to defenses post snap. Here's hoping.

Yeah, he simply needs to put in work, study, be coached hard, and put it to the field. I have a feeling he didn’t do as much last offseason and his coaches were quite bad.

Here’s hoping it’s different from here on out ... if it’s not, we’ll be searching again

Case's job is to push/help Baker, but Baker needs the starter reps if we're going to be ready for the regular season. Baker could theoretically lose them if he's practicing poorly, but I don't think this should be an open competition situation. 1st team O needs as much time together as they can get.

The thing about post snap reads is it's a matter of mentally processing information at a very rapid rate. To an extent I believe it's an innate skill that can't actually be taught. I'm sure a vast amount of film study can help to some extent, but it has been an issue that has hampered a lot of very physically gifted QB's.

I agree. It's like being a fast runner. A person can get faster, but a naturally slow person can only improve so much. And a naturally fast person has a much better chance to gain foot speed.

To your post: I will add that the better prepared a QB is for the game plan and the opponent (a problem reportedly for Baker and his direct coaches last year) the "easier" (or quicker) those quick progressions can take place.

Also, what a QB sees pre-snap gives him a better view as to what his options MIGHT be post snap. Another thing that can speed up the progression.

Preparedness and what-you-expect-to-see will make those post-snap progressions much quicker. IMO

Provided OC's aren't hiding what they plan to do post snap with the look they give you presnap. That's the issue.

Seeing how people are lined up presnap is about recognition. Post snap is processing with speed.

It's a lot easier to process post-snap if your offensive players are where you expect them to be.

It's a lot easier to know where to expect them to be if they practice the plays that will be called (and practice period) during the week.

I think that was as much a part of the problem as anything. Having your top two receivers limited with injuries and the QB's familiar reliable outlet and #3 WR benched due to a coach's decision and his top TE out with injury makes knowing what his own guys are doing difficult let alone trying to read defenses under duress.

j/c:

I am going to be interested to see the relationship between Baker and Case. It's been suggested that Case was brought here to be the adult in the room and mentor Baker. That could be correct. But, what if Baker doesn't accept that and views Case as a threat?

I ask that because it sure looked like the relationship between Baker and Taylor was icy. You didn't see them talking on the sidelines. Meanwhile, Drew Stanton and Baker talked all the time after drives.

I don't know if that was on Taylor because he resented Baker taking his job? If it was on Baker because he couldn't believe he wasn't the starter from day one? A combination of both?

It worries me that Baker has this thing about not working w/a qb coach on footwork and throwing the ball. What makes it worse is that he throws around derogatory terms when talking about those guys. I find that type of attitude concerning, especially given that guys who have won Super Bowls are lauded as great qbs will work w/QB coaches during the off-season to help them w/the nuances of the position.

This is almost worthy of a 'Like'...almost...and leaves out the 'Hugh' factor...which is HUGE.



This is complete and utter BS that no one could know or evaluate and makes an agenda-assumption that Baker can't/won't work on what he needs to work on.

No, that isn’t BS. It’s actually from baker himself. Out of his own mouth, or evidence from his actions.

First of all, my remarks were not correctly represented by WSU. I didn't say he wouldn't work. I said he would not work w/a qb coach in the off-season.

Par for the course around here.

Your comments have nothing to do with your opponents disguising their D's and blitzes to confuse NFL QB's. But carry on.....

Just to be clear here...the following is the first sentence in your above paragraph that I had an issue with:

"It worries me that Baker has this thing about not working w/a qb coach on footwork and throwing the ball."

I guess Baker has an agenda.

I find it funny how people thinking pointing out facts is an agenda.

Just to be really clear here:

You came back w/this angry gem:



You took my quote and attached a new meaning to it. Another attempt to start a fight. It's what you always do.

I refuted your agenda post. Interesting how you simply ignored my clarification - now bolded above.

Given that you hate opinions that don't line up with your line of thinking, you stated that I must have no friends and am a miserable person who should go have sex.

I attacked your post...you attacked me personally. Can you not see the difference?

Are you really arguing this? Baker has been quoted as saying he didn't want to work w/a qb coach two years in a row. I never said that he didn't want to work hard. Stop your lies.

I am going back to ignoring you again. It just irks me that the refs allow you and few others to lie. Over and over and over...

I will state again, if you know football, you know it is right about week 8 when DCs have enough tape on you to know your tendencies. Mayfield played 8 weeks in 2018. Opposing DCs had a chance to study him, and they dialed up specific defenses.

That was the biggest reason Mayfield had issues.

I also think this: it was AWFUL luck to play the Jets so early last year ... Gregg knew how to defend Baker: zone defense and jump quick passing lanes, while pressuring up the middle and keeping him in the pocket to the left.

He gave away the blue print. Had we played the Jets, in say, week 15 ... maybe Baker’s year woulda been different

I'd imagine there isn't a direct quote from Baker saying he wouldn't "work with QB guru in the offseason."

I'd imagine a lot of what it's being said negatively from Baker here came from a subjective article about Baker.

People always twist what Baker says. Heck people are twisting what he said about Duke that he's throwing teammates under the bus.

This is what was quoted,

"“I do not need somebody to teach me how to do a three-step drop,” Mayfield said. “I can look at film and be critical of myself. Throughout this process, I have had people help me out along the way and try and take things from different people. Anytime I am around somebody, I ask questions. Do not act like I have it all figured out.

“There is always room to improve and take things from there and there, but I would not say that I will go on the beach and swim through the ocean and try and learn how to play quarterback by doing that.”"

This is what lead people to think Baker said he doesn't want to work with a coach in the offseason. And somehow it's been twisted into Baker being lazy and not wanting to work at all.

Here is what his new OC has said,

"“No disrespect to any of the guys that work with the quarterbacks,’’ Van Pelt said. “They all do a great job, but I would like to consider myself in that area and I’d like to have him do it how we would do it here. So if somebody’s on board with how we do it [fine], but I’d hate to have him go somewhere else and teach him a different set of footwork or drill work.""

Baker isn't unwilling to work with coaches, which seems to be the premise of a lot of posts. If I'm wrong, then I'm sorry I inferred as much as they did.

You don't have to listen to me or believe what I say, however I would recommend not listening to or believing some of these negatively biased opinions, either. Seek out the information yourself. Baker isn't a stubborn know it all. He's quite coachable and he's destined to do great things in this league.

Link

Well said, and thank you.

To clarify some things. Baker did not work w/a qb coach last year. Is anyone disputing that? He made claims about not wanting to work w/qb guru and something about a guy sweeping sand at his feet. I can look up the exact quote if folks are denying that it occurred.

He has said that he wasn't going to work w/one this year. There is the quote about he already knows how to do a three-step drop and once again referred to the ocean. Is anyone going to deny that?

Does anyone think that he will work w/a qb coach this off-season?

Are people denying that other qbs, such as Tom Brady and Peyton Manning haven't worked w/qb coaches in the off-season?

Here is what I said earlier:



Another poster turned that around to me saying he is lazy and not working hard. Then another expounds on it as if it is fact.

I simply think that Baker should work w/a qb coach in the off-season to refine his game. To work on the nuances of the position.

As far as Baker working "hard" in the off-season, I will say that I don't know for sure. Of course, neither do the folks who defend him all the time. I do know that it doesn't seem like he did. There are the quotes about getting away from football and the qb coach thing. He did come in overweight. That picture that was recently posted was very unflattering. There is the quote about thinking it was going to be easy. He's carrying too much flab around the middle. There isn't much evidence of him working out. There was one report from Njoku about the guys meeting and throwing it around. But, that was one day and it later came out that it was more about just getting together. We did not see videos of him throwing to guys last off-season. There was his slurred introduction of the start of the Kentucky Derby, his interviews w/periodicals like GQ and SI. He shotgunning of a beer at the Tribe game. Partying is okay and I am not saying he shouldn't enjoy himself. I'm saying that there isn't much evidence that proves he was working hard. Yet, some people keep telling us what a hard worker he is.

I was happy to see that video of him throwing to Amendola recently. I want to say that I would keep a close eye on what he does this off-season, but this damn virus might make it impossible to even work out this summer.

I tried to find the “thought it would be easy” quote, but didn’t. I said in another thread that I read it as the team thought it would be easy to install the new offense, not that he thought playing in the NFL would be easy.

Also, the Van Pelt quote pretty much says it all for me. They want him working with someone who is on the team. Is that a god or bad thing? I couldn’t tell you.

Well you don't need a broom sweeper teaching you how to post.

For context, you can find the entire article at https://www.beaconjournal.com/sports/201...o-breakout-game

Just to clarify, I don't want that one part of my post to stand alone. I'm hoping that the entire post is taken as one bit of commentary w/different examples. Like threads woven in a tapestry.

Who said that? Bolded now. If I am "another poster", here is what I said...just to clarify:

"...makes an agenda-assumption that Baker can't/won't work on what he needs to work on...."

No where in that comment did I accuse you of saying he was lazy...nor not working hard...whatever that means.

For a guy who likes to claim as 'lies' the differing critique and differences-of-opinion on this board, you sure have a way of making claims that are...well...false. I apologize in advance if I am not the mystery "another poster".



Ok...but that's not what you SAID. See the opening paragraph in this post.

I read the article - and I guess I am a not entirely following what people are taking away from the quote about the game being easy.

He says - They DID NOT think it would be easy.... he says they WANTED it to be easy. He says now they really know it's not going to be easy.

Just me but I wouldn't be reading anything into that quote and exchange to defend or criticize Baker. Just watching the video on the link - the general lack of energy from Freddie, Baker and OBJ to me speaks more about how the team and it's mind set than anything. Just me.

Not quite what I said. And sure, find and post the quote and source that shows Baker said he didn't want to work with a QB guru.

I believe I posted the quote in question. There may be another alluding to it, but I don't think you'll ever find a quote that says he doesn't want to work with a QB guru.

“I already know what exactly I need to work on and improve going forward,” Mayfield said, via the Akron Beacon Journal. “That is the exciting thing about it, it is always a continual process of getting better and improving.”

Mayfield added, however, that he will not hire a private quarterback tutor, as some passers do during the offseason.

“I do not need somebody to teach me how to do a three-step drop,” Mayfield said. “I can look at film and be critical of myself. Throughout this process, I have had people help me out along the way and try and take things from different people. Any time I am around somebody, I ask questions. Do not act like I have it all figured out. There is always room to improve and take things from there and there, but I would not say that I will go on the beach and swim through the ocean and try and learn how to play quarterback by doing that.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ith-a-qb-tutor/

I'm with you. The quote doesn't exist, I presume. I believe his exact quote was he "never thought it was going to be easy."

I guess I was making it up:



I hope the objective posters will take note of who is calling whom a liar and who is actually providing evidence. I also hope they recognize that a guy like me is not calling out posters who are offering their "opinions" on Baker, such as him throwing w/anticipation and reading coverages as a rookie. I let that crap slide.

But, I hope folks realize who is twisting words around, calling others liars, and not playing fairly.

In the end, which isn't far away, it doesn't matter who we sign.

We are all cooked. Many just don't know it yet. Being the last survivor isn't the place to be.

OH NO! Peen is succumbing to apocalyptic fatalism!

Hold that thought for about 6 months.

On the above podcast Jake Burns and Jake Trotter talk about the off-season moves. Trotter says he has known Case Keenum and people around Case Keenum for a long time, he used to be a college football reporter, and that Keenum will be a perfect fit with Baker Mayfield.

What you posted in green is light years away from what you have contended over and over about Baker.

Yes. Now that you post that I do remember that now. So for that I apologize. Congratulations? However, he did say his biggest concern at the time was learning the playbook. I never questioned the beach comment, but that's silly anyway.

With that said, you also said,



Which is false. There's a video circulating these boards showing Baker working on his footwork and throwing the football. So he is working on his craft, as directed by his "QB coach."

And sorry, this...

... made me chuckle. All you do is call out other posters.





You are still definitely one of them.

I wouldn't worry too much about, or read too much into, past comments made under the old staff.

With new leadership - and apparently, REAL leadership, as the Head Coach, I think Baker is going to have expectations set for him and what he likes and doesn't like isn't going to matter as much as him getting done what is expected of him. This is his job, his career... it is not a "choose your own adventure" game, and I think this HC and FO have made that known.

I haven't hid the fact that I was prior to us drafting and of course after drafting him a big time fan of Baker. Not because I'm a fan boy but because I saw the arm strength and accuracy that will make him a special QB within a system that we get under our belts...3rd one in 3 seasons but here goes.

What got my gaul was the insinuation that our OL was decent when I read articles now stating that our OL was known as one of the worst in the NFL and that our OTs especially were pretty bad. So I tell myself my defense of Baker is spot on, I of course have stated that the kid did not have a good year and that I saw consistently his passes go too high on his targets.
I'm happy to hear that Ski has assessed his play and that some adjustment to his technique is needed.

Of course his "Haters" will tell you that he said he didn't need anyspecial Guru's help in the offseason. Well we are not asking him to go to a guru. Our QB coach, OC and especially our HC will be the ones coaching him up and making him better. What Baker stated prior to a coaching change is meaningless. Cause he has "ALWAYS"...ALWAYS been a coachable player throughout his career. What is quoted in a time when frustration was abound is meaningless in assessing our QBs character.

But when I hear somebody state that our OL was decent and should not be stated as a reason that put our QB in an uncomfortable position...well that was just pure ridiculous if you ask me. Now I'm reading

The biggest move Cleveland made was locking up former Titans right tackle Jack Conklin. The Browns had arguably one of the worst offensive lines last season, mostly because of poor play at the tackle positions.

I have yet read an article stating that Baker was not good despite the Excellent play of his OL like some have stated here.

So I get it where device has stated that its the "LIES" spoken about Baker that is upsetting to me at least - a player who I think is our savior for sure!

jmho

j/c:

Has anyone said that the Brown's OL was great?

I know I have said that their pass blocking was not as bad as some made it out to be.





I've tried to say that our pass blocking was better than our run blocking. I have said that the Brown's OL isn't as bad at pass blocking as some claim. I have said that Baker was part of the problem in regards to sacks/pressures. I have tried to say the OL certainly does need to get better. I don't think those are "lies."

When you replace 3 of 5 starters on a unit...that unit was not good.

What three have we replaced?

This is like the 100th rendition of this conversation. Our Oline wasn't as bad as people make it seem, but they're nowhere near good enough. I look at the Steelers. Remember what they surrounded a rookie Ben R with? That's what we need to try to do with Baker. Even after rookie Ben R morphed into Big Ben, fQB... they still bolstered that Oline. Pouncey and DeCastro were drafted well after Ben was established as a top-tier QB.

If the Steelers can invest in their Oline when they have an established fQB, then we can do the same as Baker is getting his game up to NFL level.

I don't think anyone would disagree w/your take, oober. The problems occur when folks say that others like me are saying we have a great OL. I have never once said that. Also, I think it's wrong to say we have a terrible pass-blocking OL and insisting on saying people are telling lies to make Baker look bad.

Robinson is in jail and wouldn't have been kept anyway.

Kush is on another team now.

Conklin is the new RT.

Did I REALLY have to tell you that?

Yet they have not yet been replaced. Many people feel we have options at the RG position currently on the roster.

All of the replacements are not yet in place, but all three were absolutely getting replaced; LT, RT, and RG were terrible last season.

RT is now fixed. Perhaps our RG is on the roster. LT is still unknown.

Either way... all three from last year are getting replaced and were going to be.

Didn't Teller replace Kush as the starting RG during the season? I think Teller is still on the roster.

He's still on the roster.

He did replace and still is on the roster, but his run blocking was rather substandard according to PFF. Certainly replaceable in my estimation.

Wyatt Teller: 56.7

Gave up 16 QB pressures in 11 games and had a run-blocking grade of 48.2.

Thanks.

I asked the question because it was said that we have replaced three starters after the season.

And I want to go back to how this started. Someone said something about me claiming the OL was great last year. I never once said that. I said it wasn't as bad as some made it out to be. It was also said that we had the worst OL and/or one of the very worst OL's in football in regards to protecting Baker.

I used the PFF stats to support my claim that while they were not great, the OL was close to average in regards to pass blocking. We were not the worst pass blocking OL in the NFL last year.

That is my stance and I'm sticking to it.

Do you have the whole list for OL? I would be curious to see how many teams with worse OLs made the playoffs. The Pats might have had a worse OL, but beyond that, I don't know.

No, but I'll try to look it up later. On lunch break now and don't have the time. It is an interesting question, though. I think I'm going to purchase PFF Edge tonight.

Nathan Zegura interviews Case Keenum through the phone about signing with the Cleveland Browns. Case talks about some of the factors that helped him make the decision, his time spent with head coach Kevin Stefanski and tells a funny story about Myles Garrett.

Browns coach Kevin Stefanski says QB Case Keenum will ‘fit perfectly into the mentality we’re trying to build’

https://www.beaconjournal.com/sports/202...g-to-buildrsquo

The Browns are fully committed to Baker Mayfield as their starting quarterback, but the new regime doesn’t want to coddle him.

In the eyes of new Browns coach Kevin Stefanski, Case Keenum gives the team a veteran QB who can push Mayfield to be his best and provide an invaluable example of professionalism.

Keenum passed a physical and signed with the Browns. The team announced the move Tuesday along with the signings of return man JoJo Natson, a former University of Akron standout, and cornerback Donovan Olumba.

Keenum and the Browns agreed to the three-year, $18 million deal on March 16. The pact will reunite Keenum with Stefanski, the quarterbacks coach of the Minnesota Vikings in 2017, when Keenum went 11-3 as a starter in the regular season and 1-1 in the playoffs.

“I think Case is somebody that’s seen it all and been through it all in his time as an NFL quarterback,” Stefanski said in a news release. “I think the experiences he brings can be great for our team as a whole.

“I think he knows this system having played in it under Coach [Gary] Kubiak when he broke into the league in Houston, and obviously I have experience coaching him with the Vikings. I’m really excited about bringing Case the person into this group. He’s the son of a football coach. He’s a grinder. He’s a gym rat. So I think he’ll fit perfectly into the mentality we’re trying to build.”

The Browns, in hindsight, believe their quarterback room developed too much of a buddy-buddy feel last year, when Mayfield regressed in his second NFL season. Coach Freddie Kitchens, quarterbacks coach Ryan Lindley and backups Drew Stanton and Garrett Gilbert were there to support Mayfield. They were close with him. The notion they held him accountable and challenged him enough is much less convincing.

Now Kitchens and Lindley are gone, and Stanton is an unrestricted free agent.

Meanwhile, Keenum and Mayfield are in the early stages of building a relationship.

“Baker reached out as soon as the news broke [I had reached an agreement with the Browns], which really meant a lot to me,” Keenum said in the release. “I’ve got a lot of respect for him for what he’s done on the field and off the field, too. First and foremost, I know my role coming in. That’s another great positive for me. I’m going to be ready to play. I feel like I’ve played at a high level for the last three years.”

Keenum, 32, entered the NFL in 2012 as an undrafted rookie free agent with the Houston Texans. He has since posted a regular-season starting record of 27-35 and completed 62.4 percent of his passes for 14,368 yards and 75 touchdowns with 47 interceptions and a passer rating of 85.3.

What about the last three seasons he referenced?

Last year, he went 1-7 as a starter for Washington, completing 64.8 percent of his passes for 1,707 yards and 11 touchdowns with five interceptions and a rating of 91.3.

In 2018, he went 6-10 as a starter for the Denver Broncos, completing 62.3 percent of his passes for 3,890 yards and 18 TDs with 15 interceptions and a rating of 81.2.

In 2017, he had the best season of his career while working with Stefanski and filling in for the injured Sam Bradford. Keenum completed 67.6 percent of his passes for 3,547 yards and 22 TDs with seven interceptions and a rating of 98.3.

“Case has been a backup in this league. He’s been a starter in this league. He understands as a backup how it’s your job to support the starter and be ready to play in a moment’s notice,” Stefanski said. “Bottom line is we’re adding a really smart, tough football player in that room.”

The last time Keenum and Stefanski were together, the Vikings advanced to the NFC title game.

“Coach Stefanski, I can’t say enough good things about him. I love him to death. Great friend. His family is incredible,” Keenum said. “I’m really, really excited he’s got an opportunity to go and lead an organization as great as the Cleveland Browns. It will be his first shot as a head coach, and I’m excited to be a part of what he’s going to build there.”

Teller did replace Kush...who beat out Corbett for the starting job after Zeitler was foolishly traded...Teller came after the first cutdown to 53...meaning after TC and the pre-season. Nothing like continuity along the O line

I just sat down to eat and read the board, so I haven't looked anything up. However, I was thinking for the purposes of this thread, it might be more relevant to see if any playoff teams had a qb whose QBR was lower than Baker's? Or, even close to it.

The OL thing should probably go in another thread.

I don't quite follow the logic in your thinking - unless you are just looking for another angle to bash Baker?

I don't think there is a Browns fan anywhere on the planet - let alone a poster on the board that doesn't think and has not said Baker needs to improve on last year. Significantly.

Are you suggesting that if a team had a QB play as poorly as Baker - and his QBR reflected it - and they reached the playoffs, then you'd be okay with Baker's level of play? No... didn't think so.

And - since I have seen you post multiple, multiple, multiple times about how statistically Baker was the worst/one of the worst starting QB in the NFL last year .... what do you think the odds are of finding a play off team that had a QB with a lower QBR rating than Baker. . . . don't take this as fact, but my gut says the answer is going to be a "No"

So - as I mentioned - not sure what the angle is here. I have a hunch, but maybe you can clarify?

I was curious about the QBR thing, so I just went and looked it up. Here are the names in order of the QBR rankings:

Total QBR - All NFL

Name

Lamar Jackson--BAL--- Playoffs #1 seed

Patrick Mahomes--KC--- Super Bowl Champs

Drew Brees--NO--- Playoffs. I think they had a bye.

Dak Prescott---Dal--- No playoffs

Russell Wilson---SEA --- Playoff and a win in round 1.

Matthew Stafford---DET--- No playoffs. Was injured.

Deshaun Watson---HOU --- Playoffs and I think they won a game. Maybe not?

Ryan Fitzpatrick----MIA--- No playoffs

Ryan Tannehill----TEN--- Playoffs. Played in AFC Championship.

Derek Carr----OAK --- No playoffs.

Carson Wentz---PHI--- Playoffs

Jimmy Garoppolo----SF--- Playoffs. Played in Super Bowl.

Kirk Cousins----MIN --- Playoffs w/a one win.

Matt Ryan----ATL --- No playoffs.

Kyler Murray----ARI --- No playoffs.

Jameis Winston---TB--- No playoffs.

Tom Brady----NE --- Playoffs.

Daniel Jones----NYG--- No playoffs.

Baker Mayfield----CLE --- No playoffs.

Aaron Rodgers----GB--- Playoffs.

Jacoby Brissett---IND--- No playoffs.

Philip Rivers----LAC--- No playoffs.

Jared Goff---LAR--- No playoffs.

Josh Allen----BUF --- Playoffs.

Sam Darnold----NYJ --- No Playoffs.

Gardner Minshew II----JAX--- No playoffs.

Andy Dalton----CIN --- No playoffs.

Mitchell Trubisky---CHI--- No playoffs.

Kyle Allen---CAR --- No playoffs.

Mason Rudolph----PIT --- No playoffs.

Found the info here: https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr


Very interesting.

From Football Outsiders -

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/qb/2019

1. Jackson - 81.7
2. Mahomes - 76.4
3. Brees - 71.8
4. Wilson - 69.8
5. Watson - 68.9
6. Tannehill - 62.5
7. Wentz - 60.8
8. Garoppolo - 58.8
9. Cousins - 58.7
10. Brady - 54.0
11. Rodgers* - 50.8
12. Allen* - 47.5

Mayfield - 52.8
Mayfield

I did do a quick search on the pass blocking rankings for all teams. I found one for 2018, but not 2019. I haven't gotten the Edge yet from PFF. I'll try and find those comparisons after I sign up.

The more informed we are, the better we are. I do think the numbers we shared point out something that most people already know..........good qb play is almost imperative if your team is going to have success.

I'm hoping Baker makes a big leap this upcoming year. I think he can. He is surrounded by talent and has a good arm. Hopefully, the coaching will be a lot better.

So I am still not clear how this relates to Case Keenum - your point is what?

Baker is better than Aaron Rogers? Baker doesn't need to improve? Baker doesn't need a QB coach?

The only thing I find interesting about the NFL QBR rating - and it has no more relevance to Case Keenum than PFF OL stats - is that I never had any faith that QBR meant anything other than a gimmick by ESPN ... with that said - Baker's QBR ranking last year, as bad as it was, aligns more to my thinking than his standardized QB rating does. I don't know about being ahead of Rogers - but I'd put him the same group as some of those right below him and ahead of the guys at the bottom other than Josh Allen who's legs and mobility would elevate my opinion of his ranking.

Your stalker’s got it bad for u bro ... *L* ...

LOL..........it's funny, but kinda creepy.

I just thought of something ...... In Spanish, Baker and Case is translated Baker y Case.

U remember WestCoastDawg ... it went way past creepy with him ... way way past creepy ...

The worst one I remember was Leslie. He got that name from the county he lived in Kentucky. Same as Timid's. Kept PMing me telling me how he and his friends were going to cut off my blank and shove it down my throat.

It's funny, but bro........it's true.

LOL ... the good old days, right? *L*

Funny. I thought this was football talk. But hey, sling the name calling and ignore football discussions. All good. Right?

Here come the verZas, lol.

Those numbers kinda confirm it, but the drop in Rodgers play has been noticeable to me.

IMO he’s one of the best QB’s of all time ... just a phenomenal player. But last year he didn’t seem to be at the same level.

Rogers was playing in a new offensive system with new offensive coaches...

...similar to the situations Browns QBs face nearly every year.

Little Petey Warrick?

Really glad they signed Case. I like the guy. He can play. If Baker goes down this guy can step in and deliver.

To my way of thinking he is a perfect backup.

I like a veteran backup who has a proven he can play. Third string a lower round developing quarterback who has potential.

Case knows this offense and should be a helpful influence in the qb room.

Agree - he's the perfect back up as he's good and will win games - not what I want in as a starter but good enough to step in for 3-4-5 games and play well. I think more than that - as we have seen when he is the starter - either defenses catch up or he starts to slow down.

I agree. And at his age, he could be a solid backup here for a very long time.

Case seems to be a good guy.

What I like about him he plays unafraid. This guy put up some numbers before. You bring him in a tough spot; he won't flinch.

Back in the day Earl Morrall played for Miami. Tough old bird who could come into any situation and deliver.

I hope we keep Case around.

U best watch your step dawg ... ...

You should get Perfectspiral to join up to make it the perverZas.

I agree, and even if there is no QB competition and Bake starts the season, Fanski has no qualms about playing Case if Baker is slumping.

It's a healthy situation, IMO.

All QB's are going to miss throws just like receivers are going to drop some balls and backs are going to fumble.

It's just that when they do it too often you might need to try something else.

Looks like Case called out Mary Kay ... jesus, Mary Kay.

I don't think it was that bad of a question. I think you are an honest poster, so why do you think it was such a bad question?

"So...what's your name?" "My name is Mary Kay."

That was GREAT!

He's here to be a backup...everyone knows it...except the dingbat. I love the guy even more now.

Best answer to this is below. lol.

I think it was a question that is asked of almost all qbs who have had previous starting experience.

I think its a question that doesn't need to be asked. To me, it's a little disrespectful to ask about the known.

'Hey QB. You use to be a starter. How do you feel about being a back up now?'

It's kind of a slap in the face. Reports feel like they have every right to NOT be tactful anymore. Especially coming from Mary Kay, as she will be the first to block you on twitter for questions like these. I think there are a number of other questions a reporter could ask. ie What do you bring to the quarterback room? How do you think you can help this team on and off the field? How do you think you can help Baker?

Mark Kay and Grossi are always looking for a headline. They are self proclaimed Browns fans. It would be nice for once that instead of trying to tear the team down, they could behave in a manner that was more supportive. I know it's not their job to be supportive, and I know people will say it doesn't have any effect on the team, but I think it does. Their constant need for controversy is part of the stinking, losing black cloud of a culture that is the Cleveland Browns.

Baker was second in the entire NFL in interceptions. The only guy to throw more is out of a starting job. Baker's QB rating was 78.8, which was 31st among QBs.

Case Keenum rating was 91.3, which ranked 15th overall. He also played w/far less talent than Baker did.

I am not asking you to agree, but I don't think it was a dumb question.

Oh, before I get called a liar again, here is the link for the QB ratings: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing.htm

I think the main differences between Baker and Case just from the eye test of watching them both play is Baker still has the chance to be a more dynamic player if he can continue to get better. He has the better arm and a more aggressive mentality when it comes to pushing the ball down the field. It's a feeling of if Baker can develop you can potentially win it all whereas with Case you can have solid seasons and a playoff appearance but no real chance to win it all. He's not dynamic enough.

There's a reason one guy went undrafted and one guy was the first overall pick in the draft.

Just my opinion.

Agreed - contrived controversy is the order for the day for most of the media and some posters. Everyone in the world - and most especially the guy who was asked the question - knows it was a sham question. You'd have to be a fool to try and argue anything else, most especially given the reaction Case gave.

I agree w/you.

I also think that Baker should be the starter! He could end up being a very good player. I do think this is a big year for him as far as defining his career, but again, I do think he should be the starter.

I just don't think it was such a bad question. It's what reporters do. Not asking you--or anyone--to agree. Just voicing my opinion.

i agree. Baker has to show the team that he can be the guy this year. I'm not saying that he has to be a 45 TD/6 INT type ..... just that he is starting to fulfill some of the promise he has.

I also agree that sports reporters ask that type of question of a former starter/now backup type.

IIRC, Mariota was asked "the backup question", and he said that he is in Las Vegas to back up Carr. Carr arguably had a better year last year than Baker did.

I never said it was a dumb question. I just think the question could have been asked in a more tactful manner.

As others have noted, seems like they are just looking for a good headline to get clicks.

Thanks for answering w/out resorting to calling me "a fool" like another poster did.

I agree w/ HBYT.

I think the intention of the question can be deduced from the wording/approach. If she sincerely wanted to know his role and for him to give more insight, then it's a straightforward question. "What's your role, how are you going to attack your spot/work with the team?"

Her question is worded in way that tells me she's fishing for a salacious quote. She's trying to get him to say something that sounds like he wants to be the starter. Because of this, I have no problem with Case's response. I also think it's a warning in the vein of "I know what you're doing... I'm not a dummy... knock it off."

How come you didn't use the QBR stat (which you've been using in other threads)?

Baker Mayfield's QBR: 52.4
Case Keenum's QBR: 43.5

Because last time I did--and it was on this thread-- one of you guys said that QBR was a manufactured stat created by ESPN.

How come you have to make this personal instead of just stating your opinions on the topic?

I do want to add that I never understood why people start sentences with "How come..." "How's come..." and especially "How come you..."

Say those to yourself a few times and you will

I've been laughing so hard since I read one particular post that I missed this: Case Keenum had a 43.5 QBR?!?!

Oh my, analytics at work.

I didn't think I was making anything personal, I'm sorry you took it that way. I was just curious. I had missed the criticism of your QBR posts. I view QBR as a much more complete stat than QB rating (which I consider a junk stat).

No worries. I'm just playing around, cfrs.

That is depressing...

Add them together and wee in good shape ...

I don't worry about last years ratings. All that counts is what is done whenever we get the distraction of the NFL back in action.

Last years O was screwed up from the start and never improved. Looking back, there was a disconnect between Kitchens and Monken from the get go. I am surprised Baker did as well as he did, and it wasn't good.

I like Baker. I wanted to draft him, but hey, if he isn't getting it done, Keenum is proven over several seasons. I have no problem handing him the keys at some point in the season. I also like the 3rd QB, name escapes me at the moment. I hope we keep all three.

I am a big proponent of keeping 3 QB's and having them active on game day. I think the active number has gone up with the new CBA, even if not, if anybody is going to benefit with being on the sidelines, it's the 3rd QB. He's on the head set. Listening to the coaches. He is there with the coach talking to the QB on timeouts.

He's there in the event your back-up gets hurt.

All teams have a "emergency" QB. I don't know who has held that designation of late. Maybe Jarvis? I know Cribbs was, and before him, Brian Brennan was the emergency QB. He played it in HS. Before that all teams had 3 QB's on the sidelines. A real qb was your emergency qb.

Not only that, I would always have a QB on the practice squad. It never hurts to have a guy who knows the playbook if he has to be elevated to 3rd string.

Garrett Gilbert I think. Had flashes in preseason and was impressive in the AAF. I was always sort of interested to see what we had in him. I'll also be glad if we keep him as our #3. (Doubt we offer anything to Stanton - assuming he's still around).

Agreed. I had stated near the end of last season to play him...

I like the fact that Keenum can run this offense, and do it well. Baker needs pushed. I hope he feels threatened even if he's not. He has the talent, I think he needs someone to keep the heat on him. What is nice, though, Keenum can win games if needed, and with the firepower on our offence, a capable vet should be able to succeed.

I just don't know if Case Keenum is a capable vet. He's pretty bad. Not Drew Stanton bad but maybe Tyrod Taylor bad.

I think he is better than that. I think you under rate the guy.

Don't bother posting up some stat. Stats aren't for losers, but in that sense, they don't always tell the tale.

Keenum is a pretty good QB. He is good enough to win games and not be the reason we lose games.

Pretty good? If Keenum is pretty good then what does that make QBs that are actually good? If you're a pretty good QB you aren't on four different teams the last four seasons. If Case Keenum is starting a game for you are more likely than not have the worst of the two QBs in that game.

Keenum left an offense in which he was good, for offenses in which he was not good. The scheme always matters. Mayfield is a great example of that. Put him in an offense that plays to his strengths, he excels. Put him in one that doesn’t, he struggles.

That’s an issue with a lot of fans, they use the formula of player A did great in X offense, he should do great in Y offense. It’s a totally different system/team/staff. The Very Good players can do it, most can’t.

Not really arguing w/you, but one can't simply discount what Keenum did in Minnesota.

He was 11 and 3 as a starter.

He completed 66.7% of his passes.

He threw for 22 TDs w/only 7 interceptions.

His QB Rating was 98.3.

His QBR was 74.3.

What would the Browns have done last year w/a qb who performed at that level? I'm guessing they would have been in the playoffs.

The thing is Keenum is what he is. A back up that likes the role. He is very capable to win games. Also someone who had a 11-3 record in this offense.

And then the Vikings couldn't wait to replace him when he would have signed for much cheaper than the guy they replaced him with.

I think it's great that we have Keenum. I wish we didn't have to pay him as much as we are but I think he will have a good influence on the starter and knows the offense. If he has to play we are screwed.

I don't know if it was they "couldn't wait to replace him" or if Kirk Cousins was the most coveted FA qb to become available in quite a few years. I remember all the articles, sports-talk, and even threads on here focusing on who would land Cousins.

I think Case is a smart QB who can learn any system that he has to. He is a solid backup that can come in and win a few games if he has to. Good mentor to a younger QB.

So...what Keenum did the year-before-last is an indicator of success...but what Baker did the year-before-last you ignore like a bad parent letting his/her child run rampant in the grocery store.

We have a #1 overall draft pick QB who pulled this organization from 'Hue's land of the winless'...and broke the all-time rookie QB TD record...while being a monster in the red zone...all as a rookie getting no snaps in pre-season and training camp and pre-starter practice with the first team...and he's a turd in his sophomore year full of incompetence all around him. Oh yeah...some people think he's a jerk even though he works with kids in camps and that same people have never met the guy.

My goodness.