Good news.

I like this move

Hollywood's back!

I’m happy.

I like it

j/c:

And to see some of the posts from a couple of days ago.....lol. They strike again!

Nice, glad we kept him.

I agreed with your post earlier today. The third WR is a big deal because of injuries. This is a good re-signing.

Love this guy as a third maybe a second. Good move hope he shines this year!

j/c...

I am shocked ..... but really happy to see him back.

Welcome back 'Wood. Hope we see you walking the red carpet again real soon.

How can you ignore such loyalty. I know it's a business, but if he plays like he did in 2018, the team should reward him with a better deal next year.

Great move. Regardless of what you think of Hollywood, quality depth just got much better no matter how much he plays.

That whole "go to" discussion got out of hand, sadly and mostly just semantics. Dude had an immediate rapport with Baker and always seemed to be where he needed to be. Great production from his targets, always a weapon - because once a defense forgets about him he'll make them pay. Sometimes we downplay team chemistry, but chemistry between a WR and his QB is very important. I'm glad he's back and I'm sure our QB is as well...

The ones where we said we would like him back .... your desire to trash Vers and myself really clouds your judgement an awful lot ... very sad ...

Really like this move. Hollywood bet on himself. Watch out. I see a big year ahead for him.

I don't know about anyone else, but I find that second part really hard to believe.
You're telling me the dude shut down competing offers and waited through the good part of FA and then the draft just so Cleveland could give him a sub-million 1-year deal? I HIGHLY doubt it.

I'm not trashing you or Vers. Stopped getting triggered over nothing.

*L* ... last post on this from me ...

U think i got triggered ... ...

If i wanted to play like U Do ... i’d ask who your post was directed at .... but we all know who and it don’t matter anyhow ...

Try and enjoy your day ...

Says the guy who calls people menzas and sashiittes.

Thanks for the laugh.

Carry on, folks.

It most certainly did. Something weird happened last year with Higgins and not sure if we will ever know. In 2018, he was one of, it not THE, most efficient WR in terms of targets to receptions.

I'm not sure what the new scheme will do for Higgins on-field snaps, but I have to assume we'll see more of him in 2020 as opposed to 2019.

Good move. we are a better team now than we were 24 hours ago!!

Yes, it sure looks like that, I tend to think this is going to work out well for that reason.

Indeed.

I like it.....go to guy back.

I don't like to say I told you so (to a certain poster) but I told you so

And I LOVE IT!!!!

j/c:

But too be fair....Berry was partly responsible for why they were in the first place, so them coming back isn't all that surprising.

Still it was obvious they had talent.

That's great and all, but bringing Higgins back won't magically cure Baker's issues from last year.

Still, great to have him back and at least competing for a spot. I'm looking forward to him showing that last year was just part of the craziness of the Freddie-factor.

That plus an OL that is Much Much Better ...

A better OL will help a LOT of people, but Baker's issues last year were Baker's (and Freddie's) fault. Higgins finally being let out of 'time out' really won't make much of a difference there.

Still happy for the guy. The light seemed to come on for him in 2018, and I love watching guys seem like they're not going to make it in the league, and then the light turns on. Easy to root for.

Let's not forget the Ryan Lindley factor. What a dud.

they probably cured most of Baker's issues just by firing Freddie

This is good news!
If absolutely nothing else, he will be pushing guys and there will be work getting done by everyone to try to lock down that #3 spot.

I'm happy that we got Higgins back. I hope he is productive.

I don't see where or why anyone would suggest that Higgins is going to "cure" Baker? Baker's issues - be they inaccuracy or scrambling from clean(ish) pockets or not processing psot snap - are all on him.... Was that a suggestion made by someone or are you preempting the discussion?

I’ve been one of the few who’ve been still holding out hope with Higgins. I’ve refused to believe he would be gone unless he got a big pay day, which he clearly wasn’t going to get.

This makes our team much better IMO. Little things like this are important

Jake Burns
@jake_burns18
·
1h
The team responds to Higgins. They love his celebrations and if you watch them at camp/practice he’s one they gravitate toward.

More than willing to throw out last year’s weird nonsense & give him that fresh start.

#Browns now have a nice set of options/skill-sets at WR3.

Another interesting fact (that’s pretty unbelievable if true) ... Higgins is the FIRST browns drafted WR to reach his 2nd contract with us


michael bode
@mgbode_WFNY
Replying to
@MikeBCSN
Yes. He's the FIRST ONE in the Browns expansion era that started in 1999. There are kids who are of legal drinking age born in this era, yet Higgins is the first second contract WR signed.


That can’t be true, can it?

good move.

Honestly, probably more of the latter...

Just me giving a bunch of side-eye at that QB rating stat for Baker-Higgins from 2018.

Wasn't Kevin Johnson with us for 5 years? I can't believe he didn't get a second contract. He was a second round pick.

It's true:

http://pfref.com/tiny/gKlTB

That was my first thought as well. According to this: https://apnews.com/e23377d70171c56d5fab199cb76922e4

... he signed an "extension" for 4 years, before getting cut the next year. Maybe that's not the same thing.

Right. So he didn't reach his second contract but signed an extension.

Also, who cuts a guy after he signs a four year extension?

Which is also weird, because that says he played till 2005, but the 2 articles I found about it said that Butch Davis cut him in 2003. Even our team records are sketchy.

Edit: Ahh ... those are his career years, not team years. He played for two more with other teams after we cut him.

Icing on the cake ... but the cherry on the cake would be another DE.

Do people put cherries on cakes?

YES!!!

I don't know about cherries on cakes, but my aunt used to put grape jelly between layers of her cakes. It wasn't good.

I thought when people said "with a cherry on top" they were talking about ice cream.

I knew a Cheri that came out of a cake once!! Wait is that the same?

It can be, if your metaphor is ice cream.

But what are you doing discussing cherries ... don't you have a ship that is sailing to catch?

It sank.

... *L* ...

thats how i met my girlfriend

Last year had to of been the weirdest year for me as a Brown's fan. First there was this expectation like never before from so many cause we signed one guy who as it turned out was injured.

Higgins sort of defined what happened. Obviously he was in some sort of dog house. I could not figure it out as he was so instrumental in our amazing 2018 finish. He was an instant success with Baker as he the QB was not allowed to work out with the starters so that Higgins was one of the few on the field to have had any repoire with the young rookie QB.

Enter year two and now we have a new HC a new playbook and a Hollywood type of atmosphere as the WRs took over the character of the team. WR mentality just doesn't bode well with football. So much went wrong. We called plays we executed enough to have a top rusher in the League as well as two 1,000 yard WRs something the Browns never experienced and yet we were still losing. Higgins couldn't get on the field and when he would there would not be success. I think it defined our season. We went Hollywood ironically without the guy nicknamed Hollywood...

It time to close our eyes and shake off whatever happened last year. Who knows what it was expect not up to expectations. And yet, if our amazing DE Garrett does not get suspended for 6 games we would have won a total of 8-9 games at the least. Just probably the weirdest season I have ever experienced.

I stated from day one, me Mr. Homer while everyone was saying how great we were I stated that we had pretty bad OTs and I could not see the addition of one great WR would secure a great season. We had key deficiencies. Woah! Me, saying Woah to enthusiasm and Positives.

Well now we got NEW AGAIN, another reboot. Dorsey the creator of 2019 gone, Kitchen's gone Wilkes gone. So much good was done but it was superficial I guess cause for whatever reason it just didn't work.

Hopefully Ski will turn this around and create an environment of success without of course having any success. All those high expectations are gone but hopefully this time around we will be sneaky GOOD! and fool everyone once again....

I'm keeping an eye on Higgins I think he is better than Ratley, Montgomery and Hodge. the Rookie will get a pass for 2020 so the battle begins. I'm looking for Higgins to fly up the chart and become our #3 WR once again. I also maintain that Njoku is actually our #3 WR but his status is unknown as it was injury related.

Higgins is the key for us to view and know that all things are back to normal and we will be over achievers and not Hollywood Under Achievers.

jmho

It was at our prom. Not proud of some things . . . .

I’d post the warrant video for cherry pie but it’s awful.

I'm glad he's back, but I'm not sure how happy he will be in this offense. Looking at snap counts for the Vikings last year Link1 Link2 , if Landry and OBJ stay healthy, Higgins will probably only see 15-20% snaps. That'll likely get him about 20 catches over the course of the season.

IDK. Love the guy, but he shoulda signed elsewhere and moved on if he really wants to make a name for himself.

Solid! Let's go!

Okay, but what if one or both staters are not ready when the season starts?

I guess now we can put to rest the "go to guy" discussion

True. But does a player who wants to make a name for himself sign somewhere that will give him the snap counts, or sign somewhere where he needs someone to get hurt in order to get the snap counts.

Turk was talking about Hollywood's point of view. This is a good move for the Browns, maybe not so much for Higgins.

Unless the Browns have a season that they are capable of having. I think Higgins is betting on them as much as he's betting on himself.

Where does he stand to gain more over the long haul? Going to another team after a season where your team embarrassingly under performs and you were in the dog house? OR after the Browns turn in a season in which they were legit playoff contenders (maybe even plays a game) and you've been able to make some clutch plays throughout that season?


I'm glad we re-signed him even if its for one year. He's consistent and reliable which is really all you need from your #3.

What about Kellon Winslow Jr, he wasn't technically a WR, but was used like one.

What about Dennis Northcutt?

Oh well, The Browns don't sign (almost) anybody they draft to a 2nd contract, check out any position,
Not sure, just off hand, how about Linebackers,
Safeties.

Drafted ones that got a 2nd contract with the Browns?
It's got to be a short list.
Part of that may be because they change, Coaches, GM's, Ownership, There have been 3 owners since 99' and The Walrus acted like one at league meetings.

Josh Cribbs may have gotten a 2nd contract, but was he drafted?
Did Kevin Johnson get a 2nd contract? He should have.
What about Braylon Edwards.
Vance, what's his name, 5th round, Terrelle Pryors first year with the Browns, is about like the only Browns Wr drafted, who didn't make the team his rookie year, since 99.

That prior quote so reminded me.
Joe Juravicious, He signd a 6 year extension,
I was so happy the Browns were going to have (well anybody) for 6 years,
and he quit, 9 months later, or something like that.

"Who cuts a guy after a 4 year extension?" A new regime does.

Emmanuel Ogbah, (is currently with the Dolphins, nevermind)

Shoulda kept him. arrgh!

Only thing from this entire thread that matters,
someone posted

" The chemistry between Quarterback and WR is very important."

Baker should be tickled by this. It would be nice to see our air offense take off, what with better receivers doing what they should, when they should, and being on their routes as designed. I was really pleased to see some of his magic with BM.

Let's go to war.

I agree ... to be honest, Baker has as much as any QB in the NFL right now ... from the OL, TE, RB, WR, system fit

It’s on him now ... the table is set

Taking less money to play here is huge to me. This is the team that drafted him, he has good rapport with Baker, and he worked hard at getting better. The fans love him, and evidently he loves Cleveland.

If he does well in this offense, he might be looking down the road a year or two, when someone making big money is let go. He will be in position to step right in.

Team loyalty is rare these days. I myself appreciate it.

Technically, it's his 3rd contract. He was waived in his second season and resigned under a new contract to the practice squad.

He didn't even make it through year 2 of his "rookie" deal.

If you count the tendered contract from his RFA year, It's his 4th.

Linky


Brownswire at USAToday:
When the Cleveland Browns elected to roll out the red carpet and welcome Rashard “Hollywood” Higgins back to the Dawg Pound, the team put what should be the finishing touches on the wide receiver corps for 2020.

Odell Beckham Jr. and Jarvis Landry will be the primary WR weapons. Both topped 1,000 receiving yards and Landry earned another Pro Bowl berth in 2019. Higgins returns with every intention of being the quality No. 3 wideout he was in 2018. The troika blends nicely together with complementary skills.

Rookie sixth-rounder Donovan Peoples-Jones fits well as the outside speed option as the fourth WR, though he’ll need to beat out young Damion Ratley. Newcomer Jojo Natson can back up the slot position, though he’s only making the roster if he’s the return specialist. That’s a role Natson will have to earn over Peoples-Jones, who has high-end promise as a returner to go with his higher-end skills at receiver.

With KhaDarel Hodge capable as a physical, possession-type receiver while primarily thriving on special teams — Hodge was outstanding on coverage units — the Browns have themselves a receiving corps that is ready to roll in 2020.

That means little chance for the likes of holdovers Taywan Taylor and D.J. Montgomery, or anyone invited to training camp to crack the solid lineup. Barring injuries, the Browns are set at wide receiver in 2020 with Higgins’ return.

j/c:

A new/old theme for Cleveland Browns: Second chances for Rashard Higgins & David Njoku

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Who saw that coming?

That being Rashard Higgins signing a one-year, $910,000 deal to return to the Browns.

I thought it was possible in March, when the free agency period opened. But when more than a month passed and nothing happened, I figured Higgins was headed out of town.

Higgins has been my favorite Browns receiver since 2016. He was not the best, just a guy I liked when I talked to him a few times. In my first interview with him, I asked, “What kind of receiver are you?”

He said: “I’m a catch-the-ball kind of receiver.”

I loved that.

Higgins had an excellent high school career at Mesquite High in Texas. Because of his lack of speed, he had no Division I scholarship offers until the spring of his senior year. A new coaching staff at Colorado State had taken over. They were desperate for receivers. A high school coach sent them Higgins’ name, and he was scouted in a basketball game.

Football season was over by the time the Rams’ new staff took over. They eventually gave him a scholarship. Three years later, Higgins left the school as the team’s all-time leading receiver.

Then he was the fourth receiver drafted ... by the Browns! They drafted four receivers in 2016. The other three? Corey Coleman, Ricardo Louis and Jordan Payton.

Higgins was the 173rd name called in that draft. His 76 career receptions are more than Coleman, Louis and Payton. In case you’re wondering, Coleman is still in the NFL. He is on the New York Giants’ roster, recovering from an ACL surgery last year. Louis and Payton are out of the NFL.

LOOKING BACK

Last season, the Browns promoted Freddie Kitchens to head coach. As offensive coordinator for the final eight games on 2018, Kitchens developed an excellent relationship with Baker Mayfield. He also found productive roles for David Njoku and Higgins.

Know who was the Browns’ second-leading receiver in 2018 behind Jarvis Landry? It was tight end Njoku with 56 catches. Higgins had 39. They combined for eight TDs.

Last year? Nine catches, two TDs.

Part of the issue was Njoku suffering a wrist injury early in the season, missing eight games. When he returned, he fell out of favor with the coaches. Higgins followed the same pattern. He hurt his knee in the opener, missing six games. When he returned, there was a clash with the coaches. He played little over the final six games.

Njoku and Higgins caused some of their own problems with a lack of maturity. But Kitchens clearly had leadership problems and made the situation worse.

LOOKING AHEAD

Browns GM Andrew Berry was part of the Sashi Brown front office when Higgins was drafted in 2016. He also had a role in the drafting Njoku in 2017.

Last season, Berry was an assistant GM for the Philadelphia Eagles. When he returned this season, he reconnected with Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta, who also was a part of the Sashi Brown front office. Kevin Stefanski has been intrigued with the athleticism of the 6-4 Njoku. The new coach plays multiple tight ends. He likes the idea of free agent acquisition Austin Hooper and Njoku on the field at the same time.

Njoku is only 23. The Browns picked up his option for 2021, meaning they have him under control for two years. It is a vote of confidence in the University of Miami product. A day later, they signed Higgins.

For both players, it’s a fresh start with a new/old front office that never lost faith in them.

Now, it’s up to Higgins and Njoku to prove Berry & Company are right.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/04...avid-njoku.html

Its a crying shame KJ overpaid for VG ... what a horrible move that was ...

Actually Higgins will be #4.

I count the TE's when it comes to targets. Hooper might be #1 or #2

I'm happy.. Welcome back Hollywood

I am as well. He is a decent player. You have to have guys like that on the team. Not everybody is going to be a top 10 player in the league.

Hopefully your "4-game stretch" critique extends beyond more than one player.

So is this is the new cool? Just endlessly repeating someone's incorrect assessment of a player when talking about a totally different player/situation? I mean should we have "David David David" as a response to schtick when someone doesn't agree with your opinion? How many years is it cool to bring trash back up?

Glad Higgins is signed. Hope he contributes.

As someone else said - Baker has as much talent around him as any QB. It's on his shoulders along now what he does with it. Sure he has a new scheme to adopt - but it can not be worse than the garbage we had last year.

In my opinion, it is not an incorrect assessment, but agree it is irrelevant to include in this discussion.

j/c...

Ozzie's old number.

Hey, we finally agree on something.

Nothing quite screams "go-to" receiver like a 1-year contract for $910,000 and a chance to compete for the 3rd WR spot.

With that garbage dealt with, I will reiterate that I have always liked Higgins. I was the one guy who said we should consider drafting him before the draft. I kept saying he was better than Louis and Payton. I am also glad we re-signed him for peanuts. I have just maintained that he is overrated by some folks on here. Including you.

OK...old guy moment... I was wracking my brains...who the heck is Wood?

Rashard "Hollywood" Higgins

I got it before I posted, after thinking about it for a minute or two I clicked the Tweet link and saw the Hollywood sign. Then it came back.

Thanks for trying to clear me up. I appreciate it. I very well could have been pulling up our list of UDFA's and not finding a player named Wood. I'd have been cussing, who is this guy? LOL

He was the "Go-To" guy in 2018...he signed this deal in 2020.

I know facts and perspective around one's opinion never stops you from trying to pick a fight - or re-ignite one ala Mason Rudolph - but I'm sure you will soon tell us what a victim you are and claiming that you knew all along that Tom Brady was going to be great.

Here's your helmet back.

He's so "go to" he sat there for months without being signed. An afterthought doesn't prove anyone's point.

How many WRs signed deals this off-season?

Fact is that this was a deep WR draft, and a lot of veteran "mid range" free agent WRs are still sitting on the shelf. There were 37 ... think about that ... 37 WRs drafted over the 3 day draft. That's over 1 per team, and a big reason why many of the mid level guys are still without a team.

Browns WR Rashard Higgins: ‘I’ve seen the rain and now it’s time for the sunshine’

Today 4:07 PM
Browns wide receiver Rashard Higgins runs routes in pregame
Cleveland Browns wide receiver Rashard Higgins runs routes in pregame warmup, November 14, 2019, at FirstEnergy. (John Kuntz, cleveland.com)
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
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CLEVELAND, Ohio — Rashard Higgins has clawed his way out of Freddie Kitchens’ doghouse and back to the Dawg Pound, where he’s always been a huge fan favorite.

“I’ve been through hell and back in Cleveland and I’ve seen the rain and now it’s time for the sunshine,’’ Higgins told cleveland.com by phone on Thursday.

Higgins, who got on Kitchens’ bad side last season and was targeted only 10 times all year, agreed to terms with the Browns Wednesday on a one-year free agent deal worth the veteran minimum of $910,000, turning down more money from multiple teams to come back and finish what he started.


“I want to see us prevail,’’ he said. “I want to see us win, so I couldn’t give it up that easy. I’m not in it for the money, I’m in it for the glory. I’d rather just win with a team that I’ve been with.’’

Higgins, who caught only four passes for 55 yards and a TD last season, acknowledged it was difficult knowing he could end up with another team.

“But it will be all worth it,’’ he said. “I promise it will be. I was never worried to be honest.’’

Higgins, the Browns’ fifth-round pick in 2016 out of Colorado State who was cut in 2017 before being re-signed to the practice squad, believed the door would be open for him here if he didn’t find greener pastures.

“That’s kind of how I felt,’’ he said. “I kind of felt like, I know what I’m capable of, they know what I’m capable of, [GM] Andrew Berry knows what I’m capable of. The film doesn’t lie. I’m a good receiver, and I feel like me and Baker [Mayfield] having a good chemistry that can go a long way, and I know GMs, coaches, I know people look at that kind of stuff.’’


In fact, he believes Mayfield, with whom he developed a special chemistry in 2018, may have put in a good work for him to return.

“There’s a possibility,’’ he said. “I’m sure he had some type of say-so in it. He was the one I talked to. He’s excited. We’re ready to get back to work.’’

He acknowledged that the two have something special from their time as second-teamers together in Mayfield’s rookie training camp, repping it over and over and connecting for numerous TDs. He used to joke back then that he was Baker and then-girlfriend Emily’s son because he spent so much time at their apartment. The friendship they developed carry over to the field, and Higgins became a favorite target that year.

“It’s a trust factor,’’ Higgins said. “I trust him, he trusts me. I believe in him, he believes in me.’’

He’s confident the chemistry will still be there even though they didn’t have much in-game time together last season.

“That’s something you can’t take away from us,’’ he said.

Higgins, who caught 39 passes for 572 yards and four TDs in 2018, prefers not to dwell on his challenging 2019, one in which he got on Kitchens’ bad side for stating publicly that he felt he should’ve been active for the Niners game on Oct. 7 after missing four games with a sprained knee, and it deteriorated from there. The ball came his way only eight more times in the next nine games, and he was a healthy scratch for the season finale.


“Everything didn’t pan out like we wanted it to you last year, but there’s a lot of stuff that we can’t control and we’re just going to go control what we can and move forward,’’ he said. “We’re just going to do us and not look back.’’

Likewise, he hasn’t talked to tight end David Njoku, who was also in Kitchens’ doghouse last year but is back in good standing with the new regime, about their similar plights. Berry was the Browns’ Vice President of Player Personnel when both Higgins and Njoku were drafted, and has breathed new life into both.

“We don’t talk about negativity,’’ Higgins said. “I’m always positive. I never try to bring up some negative stuff. I always think positively in everything.’’

Besides, it wasn’t just Higgins and Njoku that suffered last season. Mayfield had a down year, and receiver Jarvis Landry was frustrated and caught yelling at Kitchens and quarterbacks coach Ryan Lindley on the sidelines a few times. He often said Kitches didn’t rely enough on him and Odell Beckham Jr. to win game, and he’s admitted this offseason that the players felt there was no plan after the first 15 scripted plays.


“It was very tough,’’ Higgins said. “We’ve just got to get back to having fun, that’s all. I told Jarvis that. We’ve got to get back to having fun. The year we were winning (in 2018_, we were having fun with it, so getting that feeling back, that’s what we’re looking for.’’

Higgins said coach Kevin Stefanski has reached out to him.

“He told me congratulations and I told him thanks for believing in me,’’ Higgins said. “I’m just excited to get in that building.’’

Higgins has also been in contact with new receivers coach Chad O’Shea, who’s coached the likes of Wes Welker, Julian Edelman and Danny Amendola.

“He’s somebody that believes in — believes a lot in me, actually,’’ Higgins said. “We’ve been talking a lot and we just can’t wait to work together. He’s been around a lot of great receivers and just the way he’s seen guys routes, that’s the way I mimic my game because I’m a very good route runner. I can’t wait to be coached by him and it’ll be a fun season.’’

He said all of the offensive players are eager for a fresh start.


“Oh absolutely,’’ he said. “We’ve got a new OC, a new head coach, different play calling, different plays, different routes — it’s going to be a lot of stuff that we’re capable of showing. They’re excited to see what we can do, and what abilities they’re able to pull out of us.’’

He said the 6-10 season of 2019 “definitely humbled us. It’s a feeling that you want more. We know what we’re capable of and I know what I’m capable of and we’ll try not to let anything stop us. Me and Jarvis have already had that conversation, just us getting back to that winning feeling.’’

Higgins knows he’s capable of so much more than what he’s shown and “I’m so excited to put on some new threads, so excited to be in that locker room, catch touchdowns, just have that team camaraderie and being together and winning. I just want to get to the playoffs with my brothers.

He said the offensive players have already discussed working out together — possibly in Los Angeles — as soon as they can, like they’ve done each of the past few years.


“It’s up in the air,’’ he said. “We plan do it, we just don’t know when or where yet.’’

Higgins said the coronavirus situation has put his situation in perspective, and he never felt sorry for himself while waiting to return to the Browns. Instead, he kept busy by helping raise money to feed families through a church in Dallas.

“It’s just a hard time right now and if we can all get together and do it all for a great cause, which is feeding families, we can let them know that tough times don’t last but tough people do,’’ he said.

During his time away, he’s been overwhelmed by the support of Browns fans, who have always embraced him.

“It’s amazing,’’ he said. “I’ve never felt more love than what the fans do and say, how they reach out to me. I try to reach back out to everybody that DMs me. You give respect and you get respect.’ Regardless if I would’ve gone anywhere else, they were still going to be a fan of mine. They love me and I love them too.’’

Fortunately for Browns fans, they can still love him here.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/04...impression=true

Is that your reasoning why this FO would let Baker's "go to guy" sit there all this time? And according to the reports, Higgins turned down other offers. Do you believe that too? That a player wanting to stay in the league would simply turn down offers, "Hoping the Browns would want to sign him in late April" having no way of knowing if that would even happen?

Mmmm hmmmm....

Higgins and Baker established a real rapport in 2018. Last year was a cluster ....... and I believe that Baker missing 4 targets that he relied on in 2018 really hurt him. (Fells, Perriman, Higgins, and Njoku)

I think that having 2 of those guys back this coming season is a plus for Baker. You might disagree, and that's fine. No one is saying that Higgins is Baker's #1 WR. That would be ridiculous. However, in 2018, Baker would often look to Higgins when he was in trouble. That was definitely missing last year.

I notice you avoided the questions.....

I believe he wanted to stay in Cleveland. I follow him on social media and he has never wavered for his love of the city and fans. He has no reason to lie about it so yes I believe him. I’m happy he is back, aren’t you?


As to him being Mayfield’s go to receiver. I don’t know what to call it but when he was on the game and Baker was in trouble he looked to Higgins. Landry was by far Mayfield’s favorite target but I believe that the relationship between Baker and Higgins is real off the field and it showed on the field as well.

OK, let's look at your questions:

Is that your reasoning why this FO would let Baker's "go to guy" sit there all this time?

Analytics says, "wait until the player and value match". They felt they had a match, and Higgins wanted to return.

And according to the reports, Higgins turned down other offers. Do you believe that too? That a player wanting to stay in the league would simply turn down offers, "Hoping the Browns would want to sign him in late April" having no way of knowing if that would even happen?

No idea who else may have made offers to Higgins. Maybe this deal was in the works with the Browns as were others elsewhere. Who knows? Can you say that there were definitely no other offers? If there were others, then, by definition, he turned them down to return to Cleveland.

That is the miscommunication here. I agree with you.

Some think the go-to guy is the #1 receiver. Sometimes he is, but in the end, when things are getting wet and the QB is about out of time, the guy he looks to last is the go to guy.

I seem to recall Higgy catching 17 yard 1st down throws on comebacks when things were looking pretty bleak.

No doubt Baker leaned on Higgy.

Me too. I was wondering what they were gonna do.

Still a mystery what was up with him last year though.

I don't see any WR on this team being a better option as our #3 WR than Higgins. Any time we can upgrade anywhere on our 53 man roster I'm happy about it. But at the same time I won't try to glorify its importance.

I'm sure he "wanted to stay in Cleveland". That's not really the issue here. The issue is he had no way of knowing if he would ever receive an offer from the Browns at all. So the claim would be he risked never playing in the NFL again in hopes the Browns would make him an offer in the future.

That doesn't add up.

YT...I think you are right and losing the targets he relied on in 2018 was a factor in our passing game last season.

It seemed that Baker had a high degree of confidence in this 2018 receivers/te and the longer they played together, the smoother the offense functioned.

In 2019, imo, the entire franchise put too much emphasis on OBJ and the necessary work it took to become familiar with your new team was not turned in and Baker's game suffered.

Hopefully the new coaching staff will have everyone on the same page this year and Baker has a better rapport with his receivers/te.

So your assertion is that they thought they needed to get a huge bargain on Baker's "go to guy". See, that's the only point I'm actually debating here. If they viewed Higgins as that, they would have considered him worth much more and would have moved quicker to sign him before another team scooped him up.



What I can say is that it would be rather foolish to "hope" your former team would call and use that as a reasoning to risk the future of your career based on that hope.

I certainly don't want to step between you and fighting the good fight.... but I think Higgins turning down any offers is a flat-out lie. I think it's utterly ridiculous that, having no offers from us, he would turn down a contract anywhere so that he could maybe get on a field a quarter of the time with a team that was a hot mess from 'go' last year, and a new coaching staff that has absolutely no vested interest in him.

I like the guy. I don't doubt he wanted to come back. I think he can fill a small but important role in a potent Cleveland offense. I don't believe for a second he had any real path to playing in the NFL except for the Browns. Sounds like agent-speak to me.

I agree. It wasn't a Cleveland or Bust situation.

This all didn't start 4-5 days ago. His agent has been in contact with the Browns for weeks. Maybe months. Reports are other teams had interest as well.

Guys like Higgings don't get signed in the first wave, then you get close to the draft and teams aren't thinking free agents at that point. The focus is on the draft.

We probably offered him something a month or so ago, but it was fairly low-ball and his agent was getting better vibes from other teams.

I don't think Higgins and his agent were fearful he wouldn't get an offer. They were just waiting for the draft to end and take the best offer. Same with the Browns.

It's business. One side wants to make a much as they can and one side wants to pay as little as they can. Go to any car dealer to buy a vehicle. The numbers might be $25,00-$45,00 rather a $mil, but it is the same thing. They finally agreed that $910,000 a year was a figure all could live with. Not sure what kind of bonuses /guarantees were involved.

U can’t even do that right ... it was

DAVID DAVID DAVID ...

Quit being lazy ... do it right ...

I didn’t know it was cool ... guess i need to do it more often ...

Jc
That was a great set of quotes by Higgins. He wants to be here. It’s not all about the money (and thats for sure with him) .. so he’s the type to root for

So 18 had nuttin to do with the fact Higgs was the only one Bake practiced with that entire off season and through the first few weeks of the season ...

Come on bro ... your smarter than that ...

And the two biggest bail plays of the year IMO were made by Perriman and Wiley ... not Higgs or VG or ... crap ... Njoku ... *L* ..

One of my favorite plays was when Baker rolled out right, and into pressure. He then wound up, throwing off his back foot, and I'm yelling "No! No! No!", until the ball landed in Higgins's hands in the end zone for the TD.

Then there was the pass to Higgins in the middle of the field, and he got to the outside and did his best Mike Vick impression ... launching himself about 5 years, and getting the ball just inside the pylon.

Fun stuff. Hope there's a lot more this season.

This is a win. I think Higgins was underutilized last year and is a viable #3 that should see the field more.

18?? I think the fact that Baker and Higgins worked together all preseason is why Baker trusted him so much. They became close on and off the field because of it. If Baker gets 1st team reps I doubt Higgins gats as many looks. I don’t think Higgins has the talent to be a number 1 receiver. Brian Brennan didn’t either but he was a security blanket for Kosar. I’m not saying Higgins is going to be a security blanket for Baker again. Baker has other reliable receivers that he has played with now. I do believe he was one Baker’s rookie year.

Boy my last post is a mess grammatically. Hopefully I got my points across to you Diam.

Don't worry P, he doesn't know the difference.

Speaking of grammar and/or spelling, does the Plain Dealer / Cleveland.com still employ copy editors? That article by Mary Kay was a mess.

I saw that too. I think I stopped after 5 or 6 typos. lol

*L* ....

I prefer going with I know how to interpret it ...

P i don’t disagree with a word u wrote ...

I doubt it. That costs money. Something papers don't have. Writers these days bang it out on the lap top and send it to the wire, be it online content or for the print version.

Kind of sad. At one time, the Plain Dealer was considered one of the best papers in the country. Solid reporting and editing. Now it is 15 pages of crap.

But it is what it is. The younger generations don't read papers, and people just don't advertise the same way anymore.

Think about the movie sections that used to be. That one section probably brought in $150,000 a week in revenue to a big paper. Heck, maybe more than that. You had a smaller one every day, but on Friday, it was 4-5-6 pages of quarter page ads listing the movies playing.

Help wanted ads, you had pages, with real jobs. "Engineering Manager Wanted" Nobody looks to the newspaper to find a better job anymore. Grocery stores are about the only big time advertisers anymore. People still like to circle the deals which hold interest..."Hey Honey, chuck roast at $1.75 a lb!! Let freeze up a few to cook in the croc pot later!

I still look for deals in the Wednesday grocery fliers. Greek yogert on sale, lets go!

Memphis started this. Not me. I responded to his post.

Btw---39 receptions does not make one a "go-to" guy. You were talking out of your butt, as usual.

Did you break those 39 down by situations?

He WAS the go to guy, just as JJ was Anderson's.
He's the guy that when he's on the field and if things broke down, he is who the QB went to. Forget your little "39" and go back and watch since you've forgotten.

I disagree. I think he did have some chemistry w/Baker and have said so. However, I think the fact that others drew more attention is a big reason why he was open.

Of course, I don't have the great understanding of recognizing coverages like you, WSU, and Memphis do. So, there is that.

On that line, a local paper - used to be 6 days a week. Couple of years ago they dropped down to 5 days a week. Just saw yesterday they are dropping down to 3 days a week. (subscription price hasn't decreased though)

SI - used to be weekly, then they went to bi weekly, and just several months ago they notified they were going to monthly. No decrease in the subscription though.

I've realized I don't need SI. Get an issue, it may sit for a week or 2 before I even open it.

Print media is rapidly going away.

I am not criticizing you for posting this, but I think stats need to be considered in context. That qb rating sounds great. But, there is a bit more to it. First of all, why are the other weeks ignored? I get why the games Baker did not play were not included. That is obvious.

Let's take a look at the numbers to provide some context.

Week 9: Vs Baltimore. 3 receptions. Not exactly sure why that was recorded because Hue/Haley were still here, but I am assuming that game helped increase the percentage. If that is the truth, it's an indicator of how people manipulate stats to influence others.

Week 10: Vs KC. 3 receptions. First game under new coaching staff.

Week 11: Vs Atlanta. 1 reception.

Week 12: Vs Cinci. 1 reception.

Week 13: Vs Houston. 4 receptions.

Week 14: Vs Carolina. 2 receptions.

Week 15. Vs Denver. 2 receptions.

Week 16: Vs Cinci. 6 receptions.

Week 17: Vs Baltimore. 4 receptions.

Just providing some context.

I will say this one more time. I like Higgins. I am glad we kept him. I just don't agree w/the overall analysis of him by many members of this board and I surely don't like the disdain that some folks are putting dishing out for me speaking my opinion and providing some facts.

Of course having Landry helped get Higgins open. Nobody has said anything different. You may not like the word choice of “Go to” but when he was in the game and things were breaking down Baker more times than not would throw Higgins way.

You're backing Memphis and WSU on this? Really?

I yi yi yi.

I’m not backing anyone. I am stating an opinion that I formed all by myself watching games.

So your saying Higgs would have have had a better year if Bake got in trouble more ... well then lets hope for Higgs sake Bake gets in trouble a lot next year ...

Why does pdawg stating a fact mean he is backing someone, or some others, ...........dude, why does it matter?

So he ended up the go-to guy because of the others.



Nobody is saying Higgins is better. It'just that Bake and Higgy developed a chemistry while on Hues 3rd team all camp long.
They each knew where each other was going. That is what playing together does.

This isn't that hard. You have talked about chemistry many times, now all of a sudden it doesn't matter?

Higgins had good chemistry with Baker. Really like that he is essentially the first skill position player to resign with the team from my memory.

That said, he is an unathletic 4th receiver with mariginal speed.

Lesser receivers have made themselves more, happy to have him back.

I freaking said they have had chemistry. Jesus!

Memphis and WSU twisted my words around. They started crap when there was no reason to start crap and instead, you guys decide to pile on me for posting stats and reality.

Whatever........

Hey my friend, I don't read every post, so sometimes my context may be out of whack.


All's good.. It's a message board. I don't go back and read 2 pages of posts I may have missed to gain understand of a subconversaton.

You can talk to me anytime. If there is a misunderstanding, we can hash it out like a couple of men who consider themselves friends. We may walk away in disagreement, but we will still be friends.

To be clear, I have said numerous times that Baker and Higgs had chemistry. There are a couple of dudes misrepresenting things. The crap is old!

A lot of things are getting old, like me..


It is what is what it is. Hands and ankles getting puffy. I just want to say I have enjoyed shooting the sheet with you guys a few gals who have graced the board.

It is what it is. I'll go for a 5 mile walk in the morning and maybe back it up a bit.....or in a ironic way, speed it up.

Hmmmmm.............this is good and bad. Some posts have been deleted. I thank the refs for that. Then again, it makes some of my statements seem like they are coming out of nowhere. LOL

So again.............to be clear.

I like Higgs.

I said we should draft him.

I supported him over guys Louis and Payton.

I am glad we kept him.

I do not think his being in the dog house was a huge factor in Baker's issues last year.

I think his contract reflects the value I put on him. Not sure how Memphis can say I am wrong about that. It's a 1 year deal for less than a million.

I think that it was only a one-year deal is somewhat revealing.

I think the fact they said he can compete for the 3rd WR spot lines up w/what I was saying about his role on this team.

I am glad we kept him.

I think he can be an asset.

I am rooting for him.

If I had to make a prediction, I would guess that he won't put up big numbers this year. Bake didn't really look for him much last year in the 4 games he did play.

But again, I am happy that we kept him and I think he can contribute.

Those are my positions and I think a couple of the usual suspects twisted them into something they were not.

Wow, I can't believe ya'll just argued over 4 pages whether Higgins was Baker's "go-to" receiver.

We don't have anything better to argue about? The quarantine struggle is real.

It's the off-season, bro.

Besides................dudes like like me, Memphis, Pit, WSU, Diam, 888, device, etc argue all the time. It's what we do. LOL

Haha, I hear you. But between this and arguing about how people dress, this might be the slowest it has ever been.

"Unathletic 4th rec with marginal speed" just doesn't fit.
I don't know his speed but I've seen his quicks, AC After Catch!,
I ain't never seen him out of a spot, out of position on the throw to him,

Ok, Just because some think he's not in the hall of fame shouldn't rain on my parade that I'm Stoked Higgins is Back on the Browns because I Know he's better than some.
But I think Hodge and Ratley are commin along to, so let's not poo poo their contributions.

AND! If Higgins is motivated, He can turn it up a notch some guys may not, you want to have that on your team,
It's like, 1987 wwf, HulK Hogan and Jesse Ventura can come out to the biggest cheer but they are just going to go through the motions tonight! Danny boy Smith and Macho Man have so much to prove!
haha, I saw Macho hit 11 Elbow drops in a row, may have been more, on Tito Santana to try and take that intercontinental belt, (no tv cameras), never knew what was going to happen. Oh, Tito rolled him up in a small package to keep the belt.
MOTIVATION it's a big factor, and everybody takes plays off, everybody,
Guys who've been cut twice, are going to Bring It!

The dress thing was peen going off about Dorsey. and protecting his guys. I remember when Dorsey chose Baker, Ward, the guard from Nevada, and Chubb and peen mocking posters who said they wanted a "football guy." In retrospect, that wasn't as bad as of a draft as he claimed.

Underutilized! The article said 10 targets all year, 4 catches, 55 yards and a touchdown.

That's like hanging up Christmas lights for 5 minutes, taking them back down the same day.

Hadn't even read this and was just saying, Well there isn't a 4 page thread on the return of Wr Hodge,
He's got that 3 yard, first down, curl route going though.

I think you have me mixed up with someone else. I was one of the early ones who wanted Baker. I was thrilled with Chubb and Ward. I even stuck up for the guard from Nevada...like you, I have forgotten his name already. Corbett. 2nd round pick, I figured he would be good, and who knows, maybe he will be, if he is still playing. I would think he is still around.

It wasn't going off. Just expressing my preference. I would rather see my professionals dressed in a professional manner and not wearing paint stained cargo shorts and a baggy sweatshirt to work.

Not arguing, just observing and commenting...

First, if anything, Higgins is being underrated much more than he's being overrated. I don't think anyone is overstating Higgins' worth, but I've read that Higgins is an unathletic overachieving 4th WR and if Higgins doesn't sign with Cleveland he's probably out of the NFL. I can't get behind either of those statements.

The fact he hadn't been signed anywhere until now isn't any indication on how good he is. If it was, then there's no way we should sign Clowney because he must really suck.

I've also added context to Higgins 39 catches. There's more to it than "39 receptions."

I don't believe "best receiver" and "go to" receiver are synonymous.

Higgins was also injured, which brings me to my other point. No one seemed to mention his injuries. If there's one negative, Higgins does seem to be injury prone. That's a factor in a lot of things mentioned here without actually being mentioned.

Mayfield and Higgins, I believe, have chemistry because they are both accused of not being athletic and tout themselves as the underdog. There's something in common there, and probably why Higgins loves Mayfield.

Just my 2 cents.

Am I off base - cause I know I read it when we first signed him...could be on the first page for all I know. But I thought Higgins HAD OTHER OFFERS and some were greater than what we offered but he turned them down and took ours. Is that true or did somebody just make it up and I believed it???

Who is underrating Higgins? I don't see anyone saying we shouldn't have signed him or that he sucks.

I agree that there is more to evaluating Higgens rather than just the 39 receptions. However, I was trying to point out there was more to it than just the percentage from the tweet that Milk posted. I think numbers should be looked at in detail rather than in isolation.

I don't think the Clowney comparison is fair. I think Clowney is unsigned because he reportedly wanted around $20 million per year. Higgins signed for $910 thousand per year. Big difference. Thus, I do think that him not being signed before now is relevant.

I think Mayfield and Higgins had chemistry because they were both on the second team during the 2018 camp and that guys like Landry drew the attention of opposing defenses. Baker rarely looked Higgins' way when the latter was on the field during 2019.

It will be interesting to see how Higgins is utilized this year.

I like that Higgins has a chance to stick around. Familiarity will probably be important with the Corona adjustments. But, I don't think a sub $1M contract makes him a lock for the roster. He's probably going to have to step up on special teams in addition to the WR stuff.

CLICK THIS LINK...




THEN CLICK THE LINK BELOW...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1BCo4jozvk&feature=emb_err_watch_on_yt


MORE OF THIS WOULD BE GOOD FOR 2020...

Yeah, i mean there was a time in 2018 that Higgins was playing very well ... he was making great catches and was our best offensive receiving threat

*LOL* ... thanks for the *L* ... that was good ..

Higgs was more of a threat than VG ... ... and some wonder why i think he’s overrated on here ..

Now I’ve heard it all ... *L* ...

I went ahead and clicked on that link. It was interesting to go back and look.

I understand it's such a small and biased (for lack of a better word) sampling of plays, but....

Mayfield is so Jekyl and Hyde in terms of accuracy. Higgins helped him out A LOT, especially early on. Most of the catches he made were tough ones (or tougher than they should've been. Mayfield does seem to settle in as the season goes on, but those streaks of making his WRs work harder still show up from time to time.

j/c

The league minimum salary for a fifth year veteran is 820k. Higgins was signed for 910k. So the Browns think he is worth more than the minimum.

We have OBJ, Vice Grips, signed Hooper and have Njoku. Even in 2018 Duke had more catches and Hunt is an upgrade over Duke.

So that's five receiving targets we can say with some level of certainty will be more productive than Higgins barring injuries.

So yeah, as a sixth option in the passing game he's an upgrade over what was left on the roster.

I don’t agree on Njoku but i do agree with your premise ... this isn’t 2017 (did i get it right this time P ... )

If People’s earns some PT and is developed enough and Hodges is a good STer (i think i read that but could be wrong) Higgs may have a fight for a roster spot ... that oughta go over good ... i somehow find ways to make myself even more unpopular ob here ... *L* ...

I like Higgs .. hope he has a great year and gets paid ... hard not to root for a guy like him ... just not sure he’s got the talent ...

GOOD LUCK HOLYWOOD ... be my anti DAVID DAVID DAVID... *L* ..

The main reason I mentioned Njoku is that I believe teams invest in their plan. They picked up his fifth year option which will cost them quite a bit in salary. I simply can't seeing them investing that kind of cash in someone they don't see as a major weapon on O.

I mean we know it wasn't for his blocking prowess.

2018: Higgins and Landry with the same amount of TDs (4)
2018: Higgins (39/53) with a higher catch rate than Landry (81/149)
2018: Higgins (14.7) with a more yards per catch than Landry (12.0)
2018: Higgins (69%) with a higher first down rate than Landry (54%)

Not that far off Diam. I love Landry, but Higgins was also very good for Baker in 2018

That's a TOTALLY INCORRECT statement!

OBJ and Landry sit there counting their money and are unproductive for large chunks of games,
The offense couldn't even FIND OBJ last year,

Are they better wideouts by definition, Yes, But there's no guarantee Higgins isn't your most productive Wide out on your team in any given game.

Hooper isn't making catches for the Browns yet.
Njoku is a good set of hands, when they find him and put him in the gameplan, but Higgins' 14 yards per catch average is necessary,
Njoku, no guarantee he is more productive than Higgins

Duke? I don't want to remember Duke is gone because he had a will to make the play, that many don't
Hunt? is by definition, overall NFL career better than Duke but he didn't do it for the Browns,
I don't see him as a reliable receiveing threat, unless those catches are (IN THE BACKFIELD) , we're talking 14 yards per catch avg for Higgins,
So those catches AREN'T coming in the backfield.
Think what you want to think But,
Some level of certainty, and will be more productive are totally incorrect statements with a capital B. (nobody knows the future)

Just because you don't like him in your mind doesn't change how he plays!
If those 5 are clearly better in play, in a Browns uniform, then show it!
ONE AND A HALF of them are showing it on a regular basis, Landry, and OBJ alternate between the One, and the Half, but otherwise, I don't think there is any way

Some level of Certainty, can be made

Plus! If the team doesn't put them on the field, Nobody's going to make a catch.
Mabye we "BOTH" need a new set of glasses of what's going on on the field, you and me.

Fin: Every year I watch the games and people want to act like the (let's say, off the bench) players aren't important,
But every game, well, when the ball is snapped, and the whistle blows, there was only one play the offense ran, and every game we see these off the bench players in key snaps, that continue or end drives,
And people want to act like these players are nothing!
And act like it doesn't matter if they put a Ratley, or Mr. X out there
But every time the game is on, every time the offense takes a snap, Bam, 3 things
1. pre snap, (down distance, game time and score of the game,
2. during snap, Did they get a first down, make a catch, drop or miss a tackle, is it a positive or negative play for the team.
3. They name the player involved, the Browns player and the opponent.

So it's easy to note, Player name, and Good play made, or bad play made,

And every year, these Off the Bench Players are WAY more SIGNIFICANT in any given game, than people want to give them credit for,
if people just want to (dismiss) em off as nothing to think about.

And then these plays that these players Make or Don't Make, end up causing the Win or Loss of a game.
There are only 16 games;
So the Coach has to put the players in a situation to make the good plays, not the bad ones.

And it's important to not have the bad players who can't make a play when called upon, being used when the players who are contributing are waiting for the ball.

So don't say Higgins, who we know works, is clearly not as productive, or won't be in the future, as unknown commodities of players; to the point of saying 6th option!

C'mon, Perriman, and Callaway would have to still be around for that to make any kind of debateable maybe sense.

Speaking of debatable sense...... Do you read your own posts?

Look! The Browns aren't going to use 3 wides, 4 wides, 5 wides,

3 TE on the field for a base gameplan seems like a hopeful offense,
just like the Browns are going to run the ball all game long every game before the kickoff,
and then in the post game every time, "they abandoned the run"

The games aren't scripted anymore than possible, there is another team trying to stop you, so
I see they can plan only to use one or 2 Wr's on offense this year, but more will be necessary,
and those 3 TE sets,
2 TE's + 2 RB's those don't always work out if you are down 14, or 21 points.

Perhaps you don't believe your statement, were just trolling and I bit on it, my bad.
Explanations are important though, so Yes, I did.

There will be at least five targets in the passing game with far more playing time, far more targets and more catches than Higgins. No need to get your panties in a bunch over it.

2019- yes
2018- No
2020- Who knows.

I never said Higgs wasn’t good for Bake dawg .... i don’t believe he was his go to guy ... i can get on board with security blanket ...

Selective stats paint a pretty picture ..... heck i could make Sashi look like a good gm and hue look like a good HC if all i did was pull out 3 or 4 stats that made my case and forget about all the others being relevant ...

Its not like targets/catches/yards would matter for this discussion ... td’s and then u had to sink to using 3 percentages to make your case ... thats not good dawg ... some on here only understand #’s ... you know more than that so i am surprised u went that route ...

U usually don’t reach like this to make your point ... thats the reason u were spared my sole reply being to let u know who stats are for ... ..

You may wish to look again. Higgins was fifth in catches and playing time in 2018.

haha you know I went that route hoping you would say STATS ARE FOR LOSERS!!

Stay safe my man

OH MY GOD!!!

I blew it .... my set up man did an OUTSTANDING job and I missed it ... guess i need to loosen my sphincter too ... *L* ...

Thanks for the set up ... sorry to disappoint ...

Stay safe also Dawg ...

Struggles to get off the ball in press, lacks short area quickness and has 4.64 speed. Not sure how that doesn't fit, it is a very accurate description of his weaknesses. Out of spot and out of position aren't what I was describing. I am simply talking about his physical limitations. It would not surprise me one bit to see someone with elite athleticism like Peoples-Jones beat him out for WR3 in camp.

Higgins wins on route running and QB chemistry. He can't beat NFL corners on a regular basis with his athleticism. I think his film for the first 4 years of his career pretty much prove that to be accurate.

It doesn't matter how you win your route, as long as you win your route.

U speled it wrong, menza ... STATS R 4 LOOSERS!!

The only "chemistry" anyone can point to is how much they worked together before Baker was the named starter. That was in 2018 when neither one of them were on the first team.

Since that time Baker has had an entire pre season with both OBJ and Vice Grips as well as two entire seasons with far more playing time with Vice Grips and one entire season with OBJ.

The entire "chemistry" think is no longer an advantage and if anything is a disadvantage compared to our two staring WR's.

*L* ...

Been a long time since i had this much fun on here ... lots of yuks today ...

Thanks for the *L* ... spelling “insults” and a menZa shot all in one post ... great job ...

I think, if everything goes as planned, and Landry and OBJ play all 16 games, then Higgins won't see much playing time.

However, the chances are small that neither of them miss any time. So, it is nice to have a back-up option available that already has a rapport with Baker.

A nice, cheap back-up option for 1 year. Good signing.

j/c,

Isn't nice to have Higgins back so that we'll have somthing to talk about by continuing this debate.
... ...

Carry on...

Higgins was Tom Selleck's go-to guy on Magnum, along with TC and Rick.

and nobody can argue with that impeccably trimmed mustache.

I always let my wife think I believed her when she said she liked watching Magnum so much because of Higgins and "the lads" (his Dobermans, Zeus and Apollo).

Why not? If it it got her in the mood who cares?

Magnum was like her form of porn.


Just saying, nothing wrong with that. You could even watch it with her. We can't say that about some of the things we have watched. LOL….Hey Honey, come here and watch this. It's instructional.

Actually, I was just saying she thought Tom Selleck was handsome.

Hey, everybody knew that, even us guys.


I am just giving you something else to think about.

My mother used to make what I now view as highly inappropriate comments about his pants when Magnum PI was a thing in the early 80s.

Read the board my man.




Take your pick then. There are a lot of good football players unsigned.




I don't think it's relevant at all given the circumstances and where it appears Higgins wants to be.




I don't think this is a fair assessment. Higgins was on the field less than 17% of the time. Of the 172 snaps Higgins played, how many were run plays? And what was the game situation?

In your assessment, how much better of a receiver is Ratley than Higgins? And do you think injuries played a role in his playing time?

I was not arguing w/you. I actually thought your first post was fair and reasonable. I was just stating my opinions on the things you said.

I won't rehash those opinions/stances, but I'll try and address your new questions.

I have no idea how many run plays were called or what the game situations were. I just know that he was not targeted very often last year. Wait, I can find that stat. I'm back. He had 11 targets last year. That doesn't seem like many out of the 172 snaps.

I don't know if Ratley is better than Higgins. I think Higgins has an opportunity to battle for the 3rd or 4th WR spot on this team. Bull and Diam mentioned special teams. Higgs better be able to contribute there if wants job security.

I think injuries played a significant role last year. I also think he was in the dog house. I get the feeling that most folks on here automatically blame Freddie, but I would like to have more information before assigning blame. Perhaps Higgins earned his place in the dog house? Perhaps not? None of us know for sure.

Hey, I made that video

Been too busy to make vids for this past season..

Dude ... Clowney is asking for a wee bit more than 910k ... he wants more than that per game ... *L* ... so in what world are they comparable ... not in any world with math in it ... *L* ..

Throwing Clowney & Higgs in the “good football players” bin like there equal in any way shape or form in there talent level is like saying Tom Brady and Jamie’s Winston are both good QB’s ...

Its a horse crap comparison on its best day ...

IF People’s develops fast enough and Hodges is a good special teaser Higgs could very well find himself in a battle for a roster spot, I’m pretty sure there’s no scenario where Clowney isn’t a starter ... *L* ...

I would agree 11 out 172 isn't very many. The 172 snaps could have all come during "garbage time." I don't recall all 172 snaps but I don't recall seeing Higgins playing any significant plays with the game on the line. I recall one time either OBJ or Landry was ailing and it was Ratley and Hodge getting the playing time.

I would agree with your assessment of Higgins being in the doghouse. Or, it's quite possible Freddie and Dorsey wanted to see "his" players on the field. You may discredit that, and I'm not saying it's true but the possibility is there.

At any rate, I don't think Higgins lack of playing time is because he's not very good. That seems to be the premise many are making.

Hot...I recognized the name but I thought..is that "OUR HotYoungTurk" ?...Thanks for confirming, it is your video!

I still don't know what the big deal way with Higgins.. Why was he in Kitchens dog house?

I hated putting this together.. but this is what Freddie did to Higgins last season.. smh

j/c...

I don't think any "leader" is keen on a guy who refuses to go into a game and makes negative comments about the HC to the media.

I completely forgot about him refusing to go into the game against Seattle until I read it in another thread earlier today. Sorry Hollywood, you'll get no sympathy from me.

Ya ... i said earlier its easy to root for guys like Higgs ... not so much anymore ... thats a douche move ...

Yeah, I have repeatedly said I like the guy, but I'm sorry......as a former player, I can't imagine refusing to go into a game. I was not wired that way. And as a former coach, I never had a player refuse to go into a game, but if it happened, that player would be dead to me. You don't win w/guys like that!

I wonder if that had anything to do with why he basically got a vet minimum contract ... who knows ... i don’t imagine to many coaches were thrilled about that type of behavior ...

It probably goes a lot further than the other reasons that have been discussed on why he wasn't coveted by other teams. Bro...........no coach ever would want a guy who refuses to play in the game. He might have to accept it if it is a great talent like Antonio Brown...........but Rashard Higgins? LMAO. Nah, not going to happen.

I don’t know if I remember this or not but I thought he disagreed with the coaches about his injury diagnosis and still felt he was hurt. That changes things somewhat.

It appears it was the opposite. Here is the post that Grateful posted earlier today.



You--and others--may disagree, but I can't excuse Hollywood's stance on this one. I think he deserved to be in the dog house if that is true.

I will go a step further. If that story is true, I would have no problem if we cut the dude tomorrow. I did want the Browns to draft him. I have said he was better than guys like Louis and Payton. I have said I was glad we re-signed him, but man......I don't think you win w/guys like that.

There's GOT to be more to it than just that. Has to be...

But we'll probably never know.

Why?

I am not being confrontational and I like you as a poster. But why do you think there has to be more to it than that? Bro, I was a coach and a player............I am telling you that if I had a teammate who refused to go in the game or if I had a player I was coaching go into the game...........I would be done w/him. Sorry, you just lost all respect from me as a teammate and/or a player.

I get that it's cool to blame Freddie for everything. I think the dude sucked, but if that story is true...........I don't blame him for putting Hollywood in the dog house. Just my opinion.

Just to throw my two-cents in on this:

Freddie sucked at controlling the locker room. Though I don't have access or information on every locker room, I highly doubt that NEP, PIT, DAL or BAL has issues with players being late for meetings violating league rules by wearing watches, unapproved shoes, and off style uniform additions like the Browns experienced last year. This Higgins thing is just another nail in that coffin. There were many other such antics going on in that locker room.

Maybe it's just me but you don't win games when the pregame show and early game analysis is focused on the color of shoes a player is wearing or a watch he has on. I don't think it's a good thing to be talking about a player having to change his shoes at half time or he doesn't play when you're getting your azz kicked on the field.

These are distractions and personally I don't give a care how good a player you are or are supposed to be. It's a job and your actions has an effect on the team as a whole. Wearing a dress to the post game news conference (not the Browns) is not being a representative of your employer, it's a freaking look at me ploy.

As soon as you allow players to play the look at me game you have lost the team. Not only that but now those players are getting more attention for their actions rather than their on the field play.

What's the top three items talked about OBJ in 2019? His injury - No! His spectacular catches - NO. His late game touchdown catch for a victory - NO. OBJ had 3 memorable moments in 2019 - wearing a $250,000 watch, wearing unapproved shoes, and complaining that Baker missed him on a potential TD play when the Browns were driving and Baker threw to Landry on a crossing route that was wide open until Njoku faded toward the middle when running a seam route allowing his defender to break off and break up a clear first down pass to Landry but failed because Njoku wasn't disciplined enough to run his route properly.

In fact, not a single thing was talked about considering the Browns failed on the play and the reason. Instead the cameras were all focused on OBJ throwing his helmet and screaming on the sidelines where in fact he was a 3rd option on the play at best and the 1st option had clearly beat his defender.

You show me a team that allows this kind of crap and I'll show you a team that does not win consistently. That said, OBJ and Landry are rare talents that could turn this franchise around. I want them to show me on the field with team play. I want to see wins, TD's, and talk about the team and it's wins - not about a watch, shoes or I was open - you don't win with those type of attitudes.

...about Higgins refusing to go into the game. He should have been cut as soon as the game was over. That said, I don't see a player having the gall to do that with a good coach that the team respects...unless he actually wants to be let go or traded.

Can you all post any link to that at all. Curious to what was the circumstances revolving that kind of action. Higgins just didn't seem to be a kind of guy to do something like that. Not that there is an acceptable reason but I'm curious to the reasons because that does fall under Leadership. What kind of environment did Kitchen make for something like that to happen. Sort of falls under - "It takes two to tango".

But whatever the reasons if that did happen, him refusing to go in without AN INJURY involved is HS stuff not professional at all.
jmho

Simply the fact that an NFL player, one that saw himself pushed waaaaay down the depth chart in consecutive seasons via top-dollar FA acquisitions, playing for a coach/GM that didn't draft him (and had started developing a rep for not hanging onto players not drafted by him), in a contract year, crossed his arms and refused to go into a game?

I don't know, man... that's just insane and hard to believe. You're telling me a guy that just got pushed down the depth chart to fringe starter, coming off an injury with limited time to play his way into a new contract would choose not to play? And IIRC, he had been wanting to play before that, and Kitchens made him a healthy scratch.

Just my opinion and assumption. I find that whole scenario really hard to believe.

It's okay that we disagree. I think it's as simple as Higgins coming off of an injury and then complaining to the media when he wasn't immediately getting a lot of reps in his first game back. I think that upset Kitchens and then the relationship was devastated after the player refused to enter the game.

That's some heavy stuff right there, oober. But again, I have no problem w/you thinking differently.

I sort of agree with you. WFNY is also essentially a blog too, isn't it? Have we seen this story corroborated anywhere else?

Who knows more about what's going on then the players? Really nobody. So if that's true, and I believe it is, How come no players have come out negative about Higgins?

What I'm saying is, that those that know, aren't upset with Higgins.. Why should we be?

Yeah, my take isn't meant to be taken as fact at all. Heavy heavy assumption get to my (non)conclusion. I'm simply saying the picture painted really strains believability. Also, the only thing I've read is just single-liners buried in articles when his refusal to go in is mentioned. No details... no context.... hell, I don't think they even used their go-to "sources" line, iirc. That part being glossed over also makes me hesitant to take that story at face value.

Just doesn't add up for me... that's all.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2019/11/08/ra...-room-problems/

https://www.brownsnation.com/rashard-higgins-refused-to-enter-seahawks-game/

https://heavy.com/sports/2019/11/browns-rashard-higgins-refused-to-play/

We will never know the details, but there a couple interesting talking points in your post.

IMO, FK wasn’t a good HC. I didn’t know it would fail as spectacularly as it did, but I didn’t feel the vibe from Freddie, in terms of being a good head coach.

Gregg Williams was the smarter choice, I said it then, and always will.

I find it more interesting that the Browns resigned him after he acted this way. It is really telling how little they thought of Freddie Kitchens.

Read that last link, and that was one of jfanent’s points: he was re-signed.

Just because this FO kept Higgins does not automatically mean it was the right decision. I don't think you win w/guys like that.

Not sure how many of you read the articles, but the lack of leadership from the players on the roster is a concern. The fact that a guy like Higgins would be that selfish is concerning.

I think people are talking themselves into every problem the Browns had will disappear because Freddie is no longer here. I think that is Fools Gold. I never liked Freddie as a HC, but this team had more issues than just his ineptness at the job.

Heinz Ward walking off the field before the game was over
John Elway Refusing to play for the Colts.
Eli refusing to play for San Diego
Bo Jackson refused to play for Tampa Bay
Ernie Davis refused to play for the Redskins
Rich Gannon refused to play for New England


players refuse to play for coaches or organizations all the time.

Heck, we just saw trade for one of the best LT in the league.

What is your point?

Four of those guys never played for those teams.

playe

that was my point. players act crazy. it doesn't mean they will turn out to be bad players.

I was speaking of players polluting the team they are on by refusing to play during a game. That is not good for chemistry. Manning did not hurt the Chargers chemistry by not wanting to go there. If anything, they probably used it as motivation.

I think AB refused to go into a game. The Steelers traded him to Oakland. Higgins is no AB. He isn't even a starter. I am okay w/you disagreeing, but his selfishness does not sit well w/me.

not "kept", brought back.

I'm not really taking a side here, but my GUESS is that there is more to the story than what is in the articles, or the story itself is minor enough that this coach and FO are comfortable giving him a one-year "prove it" contract.

He has talent, he has chemistry with the starting QB, and he's dirt cheap... if he works out, great. If he doesn't, he's cheap enough to cut without blinking. We win either way.

I tend to agree with you. There must be more to the story than any of us know.

I bet there wouldn't be a "lot more to the story" if it was OBJ who pulled the same stunt. I have read posts about cutting/trading OBJ because he wore crazy shoes and a watch.

Yeah, Like maybe he just wants to be a part of something special ... and it's probably his best opportunity going forward to sort of redeem himself for 2019.

I tend to agree with you, but I really got a feeling after Freddie was fired, that not many of the players had much respect for him as the season went on. More than one player confronted him on the sidelines during the season.

While I don't like that attitude from players, to me, there was some major issues with how he was coaching the team.

I can't speak to what others may think about things.

I have tried to make this clear and I will try again.

I think Freddie sucked as a HC!!! I think he deserved to be fired!

I was the one guy who said something like I will wait and see how Freddie handles the HC duties before I proclaim him to be such a great hire on bonefish's thread about Freddie last year.

I am not defending Freddie. I'm saying that there are other issues at play here.

I can, because those posts already exist.

Reading the tea leaves with what happened with Freddie... I think he started to feel the pressure of being the CEO of the team and couldn't handle it. He just didn't know how to handle adversity as a leader.

People act differently when they are under pressure. In 2018 there was no pressure after Hue was fired. Freddie had nothing to lose and things went well.

Things didn't go well to start the season and I think Freddie didn't respond like a leader should to the team. It really seemed like he just kept doing the same thing over again and kept repeating his "get better" mantra with no real "how" behind it.

Over time the team tends to sense that and it becomes really corrosive to team chemistry.

The issues with Todd Monken coming out after the season was the most telling to me.

Also... Why the hell was Ryan Lindley our QB coach?

I thought he was Baker's friend? I also thought Baker wanted Freddie as the HC?

I also think it is pretty lame to blame the HC for a player who refuses to enter a game. Freddie sucked, but that does not absolve the sins of others.

I think right after that 2 and 5 Start and the loss to the Seahawks Kitchens lost the team and lockeroom.
I even think after that 30 point blowout at home.that Titans game was enough evidence
That Fat Freddie was way in over his head
His whole "whoopdiehell" and "if you ain't Brown and Orange you don't matter " phrases were so irritating.
He was straight out of Andy Griffith
If the players don't respect you then in time
They will stop playing hard for you
Look at the Bengals game.
Zac Taylor had one win the whole year and his team came out and just took the Browns to the woodshed

After Hue and Haley were canned, the Head Coach was Williams. Freddie may have called plays, but he did not have to worry about the whole team, That was William's job, and the team responded to Williams with a 5 - 3 record. I remember reading that Freddie was made Head Coach after the season, because Baker wanted him, and Dorsey wanted to keep Baker happy. If that was true, or just speculation on someone's part, I do not know. Whatever the reason was, the hiring of Freddie, as well as the issues that ensued were instrumental in both Freddie and Dorsey losing their jobs.

j/c...

Ok I read all the articles.

Regarding Higgins refusing to play in the SeaHawks game.

The only thing we got on this is ONE ARTICLE which seems fishy to me where there is only ONE Article with no follow up confirmations with players or coaches on Higgins Refusing to play.

So its all on this Atlantic reporter who states he has multiple ANONYMOUS reports. That is it. I'm surprised some of you act like its 100% true. Why not one player commenting on somebody making probably the most undesirable act as a professional NFL Player. But not one follow up confirmation from a coach or player...not one follow up confirmation of even an Anonymous source by other beat reporters just this one Atlantic guy...Sorry I say it never happened until I get more confirmation then this one guy and only one guy that I never heard of.

jmho

Just to be clear... I'm not letting Higgins off the hook. I went back and re-read... it sounded like I was siding with Higgins. I was not.

I was simply saying that I found the story, as it was presented, very hard to believe. Player's number was called to go in, player crosses his arms and stamps his foot and says no (I'm at home with a 2 year old, so my picturing the situation in my head is probably slanted that way :-p ...). Doesn't make sense.

Again... the story, AS IT'S TOLD, is hard to believe. It just feels like we're missing a key part to that story is all I'm saying.
If that story, as it is, IS accurate... then yeah. Cut him now.

I'm not saying to cut him. Heck, the new FO just brought him back. I am just saying that it makes sense when we are trying to figure out why he was in Freddie's dog house. I think it makes a lot more sense than Freddie not liking his nickname. Or, Freddie and Dorsey picking on him because he was chosen by the previous regime. Those kind of "reasons" don't make as much sense to me as Freddie being upset that Higgins complained to the media about not playing much in his first game back from injury and then refusing to enter the very next game against Seattle. In my mind, that is by far the most logical explanation.

Higgins will have to fight to make the roster.

Kevin Stefanski ran three wides only 25% of the time in Minnesota last year.

It seems clear the plan is to use two TE's and the backs as receivers.

Peoples Jones will probably make the team. He was drafted by this regime and he is a returner and can be a gunner.

There will be stiff competition at receiver. Hodge, Montgomery, Ratley, and there are others that are on the roster.

Higgins has a to prove his value and it will not be easy.

I was dead wrong about Freddie. I thought he would work out. I knew he had no real track record as a HC but he had been in the league long enough and what he did as OC was encouraging.

Lesson learned.

KS I will wait and see. I am optimistic but until you prove it in the actual role no assumptions can be made.

I don't think this is true. I think he will have to fight to get snaps, but I don't think his roster status is that much of concern. I would think guys like Ratley, Hodge, Montgomery, Taylor, etc should be more concerned.

I think they view Higgins as the #3 WR (for now) and those usually make the team. Not to mention Odell's injury history and speculation that Landry's surgery recovery might extend far into the summer/fall.

I disagree.

You bring people in to compete. That is the basic principle of the NFL.

Those players will fight to earn a spot. If Higgins proves he is better than them; then he will make the team.

No coach will look at Higgins and say it is automatic that you have a spot. If that was the case why bother bringing in players. If during practice, camp, and pre-season a player shows he is better than Higgins a coach will keep the best player.

He signed a one year deal hardly a guarantee.

Every player is well aware of the basic rule of the NFL. You have to compete.

Agree w this. Higgins is pretty entrenched as the #3. He, Landry, OBJ and the rook from UM are on the roster, barring injury.

Yeah, I don't see any of those players being a threat to Higs making the roster, but I would think that goes for DPJ and Hodge.

The question will be who else (if) we keep six ... makes the roster.

I think this aspect is being totally overplayed. Let's look at this from the difference in "what was" and "what is".

At the beginning of the 2018 season, Baker had zero chemistry with anyone other than second team players simply due to working with the second team in training camp and the first few weeks of the season with which Higgins was one of. So "at that point in time" he had better chemistry with Higgins than any of the starters.

Since that time, he has had almost two full seasons working with Landry and an entire season working with OBJ that includes a full training camp with both. Last season he worked more with Ratley and Hodge than Higgins.

So while I certainly won't say there's "zero chemistry" with Higgins, since the 2018 season, and even during the 2018 season, he's had much more time working and delivering the ball to several other targets besides Higgins and in 2019 worked very little at all with Higgins.

Not saying you specifically were overstating this but I have seen a lot of people who I feel certainly do.

It's not as if you could see the same chemistry, however: with them.

With Juice? Yes!

With OBJ? Needs more nurturing...

IF People’s is ready he can do things Higgs can’t ... IF he is ready and at least one of the other WR’s like Hodge is a good special teamer ... Higgs will have a fight on his hands for a roster spot ...

Higgs is in for an interesting year ... love to see him and Bake look like they did in 18 .. thats be huge for us ...

GOOD LUCK HIGGS!!!

^Together with Juice and OBJ they make (5) ... so we have room for all three of the above ... and we could keep (6 depending) ... so who else might give Higs a fight for his roster spot in your opinion?

Ratley? Who like Pit mentioned above got a lot more opportunities last season [me] and drew many flags ... and really didn't make the most of them.

Depending on the health of OBJ and Jarvis, we might keep 5. I don't see 6.

BTW Diam ... whats the over and under on a second Rashard Higgins thread?
... ... *L* ...

That is a good point ... the health issues.

I see a possible problem in keeping (6), this season being the TE position.

We will for sure keep (4), but keeping (5), is a good possibility even with (1), FB where there can be some position (HB) overlap.

We will use some 13 Personnel groupings, so our 3rd TE and our 3rd WR might receive simular snap counts overall.

I don't think it's overplayed at all. Everyone has people they just like working with... whatever it is, however you want to measure it, Baker & Higgins work well together. Better than most others.

I respectfully disagree w/the notion of dismissing the reporter's claim because no coach or player backed him up.

In fact, I think the opposite is true. If the report was false, I would have expected another player, coach, or Higgins himself to come out and deny it. Much like the Browns saying that the reports of them trying to trade OBJ were false.

I disagree. I think they had chemistry in 2018 in part because of what Pit said. They were both on the second team early on.

Last year, Higgins was on the field for 172 plays according to the info device provided. I looked-up his number of targets. Baker targeted him only 11 times. That isn't a special chemistry.

As far as him making the team goes........I would guess that he will make it, but I would not be shocked if he were cut. Bull and Diam have both mentioned special teams. Ideally, you would want your back-up receivers to contribute on special teams. Does Higgs play special teams? If so, does he excel there. I know Hodge was good on special teams. I just checked..........he was ranked 7th in the entire NFL in special teams tackles last year. I also remember him making some big hits. Oh, here is the link for the special teams tackles.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/defense-special-teams-total-tackles

How many of the plays where Higgins was on the field were pass vs run plays?

How many #3 receivers play special teams?

Could also mean it wasn't nearly as big a deal as some think

Any player with a known attitude issue you have to really evaluate thoroughly before signing ... no-one wants a quitter or a cancer on the team to influence others or be a distraction.

The fact we resigned Higgins and we have enough staff on hand to know the truth and extent of what happened last year, leads me to think the issue is not significant. I have no way of knowing for sure.

Higgins surely has some stiff competition to make the team - but I'd wager a buck to say he does/will.

The fact that Freddie is gone speaks volumes
He played favorites and divided the locker room
And he was egotistial enough to think his job
Was secure after the Bengals

If we're going with what it could mean, it could mean that this FO and coaching staff were not the people it happened to.

They may just be hoping for the same results the two had in 2018 from a third WR aspect.

Ancient history Purp ... ancient history ...

Bake is not a rookie working exclusively with Higgs anymore ... and we have a hell of a lot more talent then we did when Higgs was “his go to guy” ... ... OBJ & Hooper and Hunt ...

As Mr. Segar would say ... Turn the page .. Tuen the page dawg ...

IF People’s is ready ... WILL Higgs be the 3rd receiver? ... Peoples will fly past Higgs when he’s ready ... People’s can do things Higgs can’t ...

IF People’s isn’t ready and Higgs is the clear cut #3 I think Higgs roster spot is golden ...

IF People’s is ready he will be #3 just based off the things he can do Higgs can’t ...

Then it gets harder for Higgs to make the team IF one of the other WR’s is good on ST’s ... the other dudes are all younger than Higgs with the potential for more upside ... Higgs is who he is ... he’s either at or very close to his ceiling ...

I didn’t say Higgs wouldn’t make the team ... i think he will ... depending on People’s there is a chance Higgs is in a fight for his roster spot ... based on what i said above .. is my scenario really that absurd ...

There’s a reason he signed barely over a vet minimum contract with us ....

You twice mentioned things Peoples Jones can do that Higgins can't?

Elaborate because I don't really believe it!

You mean Bob Seger, diam?

Metallica

They did a very good cover. I’m a big Seger fan, but it might be better than the original.

JC....time to stop the argument over this.

It doesn't matter. It's all about what one considers a "go to guy" That means different things to different people.

No doubt Baker and Higgy had a chemistry Bakes rookie season. They developed that in camp. That doesn't mean they Bake won't find chemistry with Odell, or Hooper, or whoever.

Lets hope we find chemistry with 2-3 receivers.

Seriously?

Btw--------who says Higgins is the third receiver? He wasn't last year. And I read where he has a chance to compete for the 3rd WR spot this year. Not sure how people believe that helping out on special teams isn't important for backup players? But, to each their own.

Why? ... we have seven pages now.

... ... and the re-signing has yet to officially be announced.

If the biggest debate here is over a #3 WR, then that in itself is pretty ironic.

And worth a good LOL ... after a pause for reflection.

What should we talk about, bro? Any advice on topics that you won't find hysterical? Let me know and I will try and talk about things you want us to talk about.

Don't get me wrong bro ... laughter is a good thing right about now
... *L* ...

Besides I'm laughing with ... not at

Just grateful that we are not debating the QB we past on in the Draft...

Gotcha. I misread your post. I thought you were laughing hysterically at guys like me who are questioning just how good Higgins is. My bad and I apologize.

I will add that I wish we would have never passed on Mahommes, Watson, and even Wentz in the draft.

I had a 50/50 shot .. *L* ...

Jesus man, when the he!! are we as fans going to stop complaining about what we could have had in the draft. I mean really - how far back are we going to go and say "oh what we could have had!"

Look, the draft is a crap shoot. 1st round picks only have a 55% success rate. You always hope you picked right but how do you know for sure - you don't.

Later rounds have even worst results. I mean if were going to cry - how about selecting Spergon Wynn in 2000 with the 183rd pick when Tom Brady went 199th in that same draft. Wouldn't that be the biggest failure of all time? I mean really, was Wynn actually higher on NFL draft boards than Brady? It would appear so.

I remember when we took Thomas #3 overall and the outrage that we didn't pick Peterson. That went on for years even though Thomas was quietly putting together a Hall of Fame career on a crappy team.

Look, there is zero guarantee - a big fat zero - that if the Browns had drafted Wentz, Watson, or Mahommes for that fact that they would have had the same success in Cleveland. Tom Brady most certainly would not have become the "GOAT" if he had been drafted by Cleveland at 183 instead of Wynn. Peterson most certainly wouldn't have had the same success especially since there would have been no Joe Thomas blocking for him like he had with Pro Bowlers McKinnie Bryant, Steve Hutchinson and Matt Birk when he was running for the Vikings.

Yes, the Browns have made a lot of picks that have not lived up to expectations. So has every other team in the NFL. To think though that if the Browns had drafted that player we would have been a winner and a playoff team is an assumption you cannot make because the variables are different.

Heck, I remember the total outrage when the Browns refused to meet Peyton Hillis contract demands and the world was ending. The Browns let him go and what was Peyton's career like after leaving the Browns? Two different teams in 3 years - 671 yds rushing and a ticket out of the NFL and he was looking for top RB pay and people wanted us to sign him.

Mayfield is the Browns QB and entering year 3. I'm cautiously optimistic he's going to look like the guy we drafted him to be and could care less about some other player that is not on the Browns.

How about you concentrate and worry about your own thoughts and I'll concentrate on my own. I do not need you to tell me what to think. Get off your high horse and stop pretending you know things that others do not.

Oh, the irony.

Glad to see you are back w/your typical brilliant insights.

Me too!

The truth hurts.

For me, complaining about Higgins not going into a game is way overblown.

For anyone who is complaining about it, my question would be do you know the circumstances of the incident?

Watching the video posted about Higgins' targets in 2019, it's interesting to note a bunch were in the first game. I think 3 or 4 it was?

He was injured and when he returned healthy, he essentially was demoted due to injury. Yes, it happens, but it's frustrating I'm sure.

Also keep in mind that Freddie was the "sidekick" to a GM who called out every single member of the football team for not being "real."

Under normal circumstances, sure, I might have issues with Higgins not going into the game. But nothing has been normal in Cleveland the entire time Higgins has been here.

The fact Higgins WANTS to stay in Cleveland should say something. And no, it's not because he's not good enough to play elsewhere.

Higgins isn't getting a pass and his actions have been noted. He was not released last season and he was resigned this season. I think it's 100% accurate to say we don't know and may never know the full story here.

j/c:

We were discussing which WRs would make the team and I have been thinking more on it since that time. I'm guessing that Higgins makes the team, but again, I wonder if the Special Teams contributions will factor into the decision.

I think it is safe to assume that OBJ and Landry will get the majority of reps. They are the best 1-2 punch in the entire league.

I have to give Diam and Bull credit for bringing in the special teams angle. I did see that Hodge was tied for 7th in the entire league in ST's tackles. He's an interesting guy. There is video on YouTube about this miraculous catch he made while w/the Rams. He is also very fast.

That got me to thinking about 40 times. So, I looked them up.

Hodge: 4.39

DPJ: 4.48

T. Taylor: 4.5

Natson: 4.5 [although I think he is just a returner and not a gunner]

Ratley: 4.54

Higgins: 4.64

I know we will keep OBJ and Landry. After that, I am really leaning toward keeping Hodge. I like his speed and I think being a good tackler on STs is very important. The Browns already released Adarius Taylor, who was awesome on special teams. I think Justin Burris was another guy who was good in that area. He is gone, too.

Not sure if this regime will value STs, but it is something to consider.

j/c

Higgins has proven in the NFL what the other receivers (not named Landry or OBJ) have not...he runs good routes...he gets open...he catches the ball.

Aside from OBJ & Landry, they all have to prove it with the new staff. I'm all for Higgins, but he has to earn his spot the same as the others and the reality is that he might not.

One thing is clear, we should be deep at WR... heck, at all of the skill positions. If nothing else, this roster should be able to survive injuries without missing much of a step. On offense, anyway.

I think the speed that Hodge possesses is a great compliment to OBJ, Landry, and Hooper. He won't draw much attention and while teams roll their coverage towards other guys, he can use his speed to get open deep. Much like that long pass he caught from Baker towards the end of last year. Also, Shanny used to do that w/Taylor Gabriel back in the day.

Speed definitely won't hurt his cause, but I think it will come down to how well he runs routes and how much of a premium this staff puts on that. If the offense is the technical sort that absolutely requires crisp and precise routes, that speed won't be as much of an edge. If they're a little more relaxed in that regard as long as he gets his pre-snap reads right, then it's a giant factor in his favor.

I never paid enough attention to know where he falls in this regard, but if he runs good routes, then its all moot and he clearly has an edge on the others.

If this offense is anything like the Shanahan offense (and it was reported that Mike McCoy helped him put the offense together in Minnesota) then precision by the receivers will be very important. That tends to favor a guy like Higgins, who is extremely precise in his routes, and adjustments.

We'll see what happens. It's all conjecture and prognostication at this point.

Okay now Higgins is officially re-signed...

RASHARD HIGGINS
WR, CLEVELAND BROWNS

Cleveland.com's Mary Kay Cabot suggests Browns WR Rashard Higgins has an advantage in three-wide sets over sixth-round rookie Donovan Peoples-Jones since the former has already displayed good chemistry with Baker Mayfield.

All signs pointed to Higgins opening the year in three-wide sets last season before an August knee injury kept him out of Cleveland's lineup altogether. He also reportedly fell into ex-coach Freddie Kitchens' doghouse and was unable to find his way out. A bit of a fantasy folk hero, it's clearly a new beginning for the fifth-year pro as only Peoples-Jones stands in Higgins' path to a fresh start under an entirely new regime. It's a position battle to monitor during the summer months.

SOURCE: Cleveland.com
May 8, 2020, 12:48 PM ET

If the battles even get to take place. No word on mini-camps.... I wonder which aspect of the shutdown(s) the NFL falls under, and are they waiting for things to be the same in all 32 cities?

You have to wait until all teams can start at the same time. Having some teams that can practice together while others would not be able to would be seen as a competitive advantage.

NFL won't allow that to happen.

The nfl doesn’t exactly have a history of treating everyone the same and being fair .... they more than likely will do the right thing in this case but for me its not the no-brainer it should be based on Goodell’s history ....

Patriots have probably already started practicing...

... it would at least show some consistency from Goodell for a change ...

Wonder of the Bucs are allowed to practice yet ... *L* ...

and Pittsburgh and dallas

8 Pages on the Browns have re signed Rashard Higgins,

Yeah! he's non factor!

Be ready Hodge, Ratley, Peoples-Jones, competition on this team.

So the rest of the NFL will be waiting on NY and California Govenors...

New Jersey as well

I don't agree w/that statement. I know it is a popular sentiment on here that the NFL favors teams like NE, Pittsburgh, Dallas, etc. Goodall suspended Brady and Zeke under questionable circumstances.

I think the NFL tries to be very fair to all teams. Not really into the "woe is me" stuff that some fans cling to.

I don’t think the NFL is out to get us, or ‘get’ any other team.

Neither do I.

I don’t think there out to get us or anyone else ... but i also think they play favorites sometimes ...

Please explain to me Josh Gordon in NE? ... how’s was that fair ... he hands out discipline in a very inconsistent manner ...

IMO Brady and Zeke deserved what they got ...

We're just going to have to disagree on this, bro.

Zeke was railroaded. They didn't even let the lead investigator go to the hearing because she was telling them that the accuser was lying. There were recorded phone calls of the woman talking about setting him up. I could go on and on......but, it won't change a thing. We'll agree to disagree.

The NFL looks like they play favorites...because they do.

Talk to folks whose kids went to OSU at/around the same time as Zeke. He has earned the flack that he gets. Just like Ben Rapistburger at Miami.

another thread down the crapper

If it gets to that point, I think the NFL will advise the New York and California teams that they can move their practices/camps to another location if they want to participate. That costs less than missing or delaying the season.

The New York teams will cross into New Jersey or New Hamsphire, the California teams will probably join the Raiders in Nevada... plenty of facilities in both the north and south areas.

I hope they don't cross into New Jersey. Jersey has the highest positivity rate in the country.

Anyway...that would still be considered a competitive disadvantage probably.

Both NYG and NYJ already both practice and play in NJ.