For the moment let's forget how the season will or will not be played.

Last year at this time the Browns were the buzz team. Almost all the media thought that the losing was over. Many people had the Browns in the playoffs and beyond.

I don't hear much now. The Bleacher Report has the Browns with 7-9 record.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2888150-post-draft-2020-win-loss-predictions-for-every-nfl-team

The roster may have a few more changes but FA and the draft have past.

Changes TE's: signed Hooper. Retained Njoku. Drafted Bryant.

WR: Landry, Odell, signed Higgins, Ratley, Hodge, drafted Peoples Jones, Montgomery

OT: Signed Conklin, drafted Wills,

Safety: Drafted Delpit, signed Joseph, signed Sendejo

QB: signed Case Keenum

Not going to list the entire roster but these are the major moves.

Obviously we have an entire new staff.


If you look at talent alone based upon past performance and predicted performance from the new roster.

It would be utter failure to win seven games.

I am not in the prediction business. But I believe objectively one would have to believe a winning season at least.

Time and time again we have to learn the lesson that this team can tank a season, even under the best (perceived) conditions.

That said, (and in the spirit of the thread), I think the most impactful change happened before FA and draft. We ended the Freddie circus. Good or bad, the biggest impact will be felt from swapping Stefanski in for Kitchens. On offense, our performance should be night-and-day just on this alone. I felt our Oline talent could be better (and now it is), but that's small impact compared to coaching/coordinating. We'll also have Hunt for a full season, which can't be anything but good.

I think our defense will not be as good as it was supposed to be last year, which may not matter as the actual defense wasn't as good as it was supposed to be (last year). Who knows... we could get lucky with Vernon and have him play w/ no major injuries. I am worried about the back-end of our secondardy... FS and SS is a big ? after all the departures we had from last year.

I agree.

The key is the coaching and system in place. If our staff is at least good, we will do alright. If it is a cluster like it has been under the last two head coaches, it will remain a cluster.

I dont know as much as a lot of you when it comes to X’s and O’s ... but the vibe I get is that Stefanski’s system will be tailored much more to our personnel than FK’s

Most coaches talk about matching offense to players, but we saw only a bit of that. The previous two coaches had a magic hatpin to pick plays, and some were bad and some just bizarro. IF we can dance with them what brung us, plays to our strengths, we should be fine.

Never know until you strap iy on and play, but we have a solid on paper now.

Offense.

We signed a fullback who is supposed to be good.

We added the best TE available in FA. And drafted a guy who looks pretty good.

We have two new tackles. Conklin a RT with an excellent reputation as a run blocker. We drafted the second tackle in the draft.

We have two top notch running backs. We will incorporate a ZBS.

It would be a good guess that we plan on running the ball.
==========================================================

The Pass game. We have two of the top WR's. TE's who can catch and be threats all over the field.

I think signing Case Keenum has been overlooked to a degree. He adds experience in the offense and can step in and play if required. I also think he will add to the QB room.

We have also added returners.

Defensively we added depth at tackle and DE.

And basically all new safety's.

Linebacker remains a concern with the loss of Schobert and no real upgrades.

Losing Garrett and Vernon for much of last year was catastrophic. They are huge defensive investments.

Coaching is unknown. All we do know is that last year was a mess with Freddie and Monkin.

Of course we need better play from Mayfield.

I don't think he was as bad as his numbers. He had his moments. But he has to play better in order for the team to succeed.

Management has made a real effort to surround Baker with protection and tools. This is a big year for him.

I am cautiously optimistic. I know he has talent and is driven person. But it is time to deliver.

I can not look at this roster and not see at least nine wins. Losing more than seven games would suck.

Not sure how many of the past failed coaching staffs that have come through here have said that, but it's the majority (if not all of them).

Will believe it if I see it.

The problem is there's no "I" in team and the question remains if the Browns are going to be a team or a bunch of "I's."

Outside of that, there are a lot of unanswered questions at this point:

1. Which Mayfield will be on the field in 2020 - the 2018 Mayfield or the 2019? System wise, what effect will a run oriented offense have on a the "run and shoot" Franchise QB the Browns drafted? Are they playing to Mayfield's strengths or playing "Ditka Ball" of just limiting his mistakes? If playing from behind, the run controlled offense becomes obsolete, how confident are the Browns in their 3 or 4 WR sets?

2. Again in 2019, the Browns defense could not stop the run. As of now the D-line is basically unchanged and LB has huge question marks. Pittsburgh bolstered their offense at WR and RB. Baltimore bolstered their run offense by adding Dobbins, Ohio State to an already potent run offense. The Browns were 30th in run defense in 2019 - have they done enough to improve on that statistic and what effect will another 30th ranking have on the offensive game plan of the Browns?

3. With two new OT's pitted for starting roles, how long will it take the Browns OL to jell as a unit? With 4 contests scheduled against Baltimore #3 in sacks in 2019 and Pittsburgh #4 - the Browns offensive line will be tested. Add in contests scheduled against sack artists like J.J. Watt HOU, Houston IND, Crosby LVR, Ngakoue JAC, Landry TEN and Dunlap CIN, the Browns tackles will be tested early and often in 2020 in their protection of Mayfield.

On paper the Browns look much better than 7-9. Last year they looked better than 6-10 too. New players, new coaches, new schemes - can the Browns jell early under the new leadership? Wins build confidence so it may be critical for the Browns to win early. Respect is earned and the Browns high expectations last year with poor results certainly has a bearing on this years projection. Positive results will make those doubts fade away but another year of struggles will highlight questionable areas.

I think the only real question mark is Baker at this point.

We did bolster the DLine and its ability to stop the run. Heck, just getting Myles back and having Vernon healthy is a major boost, but we added rotational guys, too. In fact, when you look at every guy we added to the LB room and the DLine in both free agency and the Draft, they are all solid against the run.

On the Oline, with the exception of Wills, I don't see it as any different than any other OLine in any other camp. Conklin is a veteran and a Pro; he won't have any trouble at all settling that spot quickly. It's just going to be a matter of getting reps next to whomever ends up owning RG. The person that ends up there is between Conklin and Tretter, and Tretter doesn't need to worry about his left side, so we can slide in someone less experienced at RG and roll with it. I expect it to be Drew Forbes. At LT, I think Wills is going to surprise a lot of people and make the transition much more rapidly than one might think. If nothing else, he has been practicing his sets and drops from that side since January; by the time mini camps roll around, he'll have had nearly half a year of focusing on just that AND he and every other rookie got to skip the crazy pre-Draft routine of private workouts and team visits. Don't underestimate the impact that has as these kids won't be as burned out mid-season as they actually got a real offseason of sorts. Besides that, he can't be worse than what we had there last year.

Dobbins still scares me, though. Him with Lamar Jackson in a run-oriented offense is very disconcerting.

I agree. It’s put up or shut up for Baker now. Just about every QB in the NFL would take his situation ... he’s the #1 overall pick entering his 3rd season.

I’m rooting for him to be the guy, but now he has to prove it

Can we really make predictions on the season without knowing what stars the Browns are going to waive before the season starts.

They cut Haden,
They Cut Duke- effectively

They cut Jabrill Peppers for a trade, along with the left guard.

(no it was actually this, they traded, blah blah blah, doesn't matter)

The thing is we can't be sure who is on the team even, .. even if there is a September start to the season.

Who do they part with?
Richardson? Hunt? Bitonio? Njoku? it's got to be somebody.

Until this team, can stay whole, by their own doing, how can we expect anything other than double digit losses.
Every year.

They can't even decide on a coach, and GM, which might have a shared vision and keep some underperformers around until they get their feet wet.

Mike Tomlin had a bad first 2 years, he'd a never made it in Cleveland.

Can you name one person/player and know for sure they are on this team in November of 2020, and know 100% even 90% that this group won't try something else.
I can't, most likely Baker, but I can't; The Browns have showed this in the past.
So since I don't know who is on the team, how can anyone know what their record will be.

The thing with Baker is he played well as a rookie.

I think the problem is on O we were never on the same page when implementing that O.

I think Baker can have a pro-bowl type season. Hooper might catch 75 balls and lead the team in receptions.

If you want to talk Defense
why not look at the (ok, i'll say projection, fact is to be argued)

that Mitchell is still a more "productive" corner on any given day than at least "one of" Greedy or Ward,

and yet they didn't start him, even though the younger guys weren't ready yet.

Ok, start throwing tomatoes at me, controversial statement.

Agreed. We've all seen him light it up, so we know the potential is there; it's just a matter of will that Baker or the 2019 Baker be the guy we get from now on? It's Year 3... it's time to settle into that performance mode and establish consistency with it.

I don't agree that Mitchell was better than Ward, though Ward had his struggles last year. I do agree that he was better than Greedy, however.

Greedy was definitely a liability at times. Those guys were NOT a shut-down duo back there.

Hopefully, they all find a way to stay healthy and not get concussed eleventy times this season and they're all able to establish a No-Fly Zone back there.

J/C
In terms of Greedy ... I think his name preceded his play a little bit. I thought he was attacked quite often in the passing game. IIRC, the stretch of games against NE, DEN, SEA wasn’t kind to him.

Obviously he will (should) improve but he’s far from a GOOD player at this point

No disagreement.

Again, not making excuses for the guy, that first full season is a long season. Heisman awards, training, combine, draft, mini camps, than another season with no real time off from his final college season.....plus he got married. I can give him a pass for last year because wasn't all on coaches or other players. He just wasn't crisp on many occasions.

I hope I am right, but I think we get the good Backer back and mediocre Baker is gone.

If not, Case Keenum is a better than average QB. We could easily start that guy and win football games.

If Baker shows up pudgy and starts throwing stupid picks..I quality that because sometimes good throws get picked., then stick Keenum in for 2-3 games, then see where it stands.

Baker is our future, but the future doesn't have to project out 5-6 years. I can be 1 or 2.

Hey, we did sign a QB. Kid out of Princeton. You can't be a dummy to go there, and hey, maybe he is even pretty good.

Factoid...the best player to come out of Princeton was K Charlie Gogolak. His brother Pete was better, the first soccer style kicker I recall, but Charlie was pretty good. He played for maybe 7-8 years....just guessing on that. May have been a little less or a little longer, but was a good kicker.


OK...I don't know if he was the best. I didn't look it up. For some reason I know he played for Princeton. I know he played a good while and Princeton can't have more than 25 guys who made the NFL. Seth went to Princeton, but I am not sure he is playing anymore.

I think we all need to learn to accept that there will be a certain amount of these every year.

I only say that because of whom he has regularly been compared to in terms of playing style, and that is Favre and Favre was known to take lots of chances/risks with things because he simply trusted his abilities. He would gamble and win, a lot... but, he'd gamble and lose, too.


Hopefully, if we're stuck with something between 2018 and 2019, it at least leans toward the 2018 version of Baker.

DeValve is with the Panthers, after playing with the Jags last year.

Nothing personal but I don't understand your post.

I think the roster is pretty well set.

Although I do think it possible they sign Clowney.

We all saw the potential Baker had as a rookie. That certainly opens the door up to feel he has the ability to be a great NFL QB. I don't think anyone disagrees that Freddie certainly did him no favors last year in that offense.

But if one looks back to 2018, Baker was pretty much a one read QB rolling to his right almost exclusively when he perceived pressure. That makes for a very limited offense that can be diagnosed by NFL defenses pretty quickly. So to me that will be yet another ingredient in the big picture. Can Baker adjust and grow as a QB so the playbook can be expanded?

I'm certainly not going to predict that he can't. I have no way of knowing one way or the other. What I do know is that it is yet another question mark in the big picture of things.

Mayfield will be fine IF and the big word is IF he will listen to the coaches.

No hotdogging, no rolling right on a 3 step drop when the play doesn't call for it. The ball should be coming out as soon as the 3rd step hits the ground, Watch the Pats, they don't do that kinda dumb **** Mayfield is known for it.

Mayfield just needs to run the plays as designed, no improvising, or any of that stuff. He just needs to do his job, nothing more. If he does that, he will be fine.

He isn't athletic enough to be running around, he is slow, moving around like a crab, he needs to drop back in the pocket, and throw the ball, run the play as designed, no improvising. He does that? He will have a good year, if he won't listen and starts his rolling to the right and improvising nonsense, we will be lucky to win 6 games...thats what it boils down to.

Well said!

Geez, I love it when we talk winning. We may not be a total juggernaut with a flshbang offensive that can score abruptly, but we ought to be able to grind it up your tube on drives regularly.

Loved the assessment, bonefish! I wish we could get it going, say, oh, tomorrow?

Go, Browns!

Sports withdrawal is a real issue.

Last years last year ...

WE HAVE EVEN MORE TALENT ... sky was the limit last year and it is this year also ...

I’m gonna go check out What are over/under on W‘s is ... very well may place a decent size chunk on that ...

Y’all can enjoy your battered browns syndrome and temper expectations and be all “i learned my lesson last year” ... I’m gonna enjoy myself and be optimistic based on the TALENT ON THIS ROSTER ...

Are u kidding me .. IF Bake don’t suck again .. we could score 40 a game ... do they take bets on pats per game average ... i hope so ...

We do have more talent than last year as well as better and more competent coaching, at least on paper. THIS year should be what last year was SUPPOSE to be!!

I’m no QB guru .. but I’ve heard that Baker’s success in year one had a lot to do with his one read and fire type mentality. Obviously teams will prepare and adjust ... so the question is, does he have it in him to be more than that?

I for one will not argue talent.

And if Baker cuts down turnovers by over half; the rest should fall in place.

However, what last year did teach me is other teams get better as well.

And until a coach is truly tested. You don't know about him.

The Steelers were dealing with half a deck. Lamar and the Ravens won a bunch of games and cut a new path in the NFL.

The Bengals will improve. KC won it all.

So our division and the AFC is not Toys for tots.

We have a good team. We have a new coach, coordinators, and staff.

The virus is complicating how and when the teams can practice.

So a lot unknowns and talent is not always enough.

Watch this with Mayfield.

We're going to run a ton of 12 personnel. Mayfield will be under center alot.

PLAY-ACTION PASSING

And Mayfield is DEADLY ACCURATE AT IT.

When we talk about the Browns run defense it becomes important to base it on actual production and not on what it looks like on paper. There's been a lot of opinion on here that the Browns run defense will be vastly improved if Vernon can stay healthy. There's also a misconception that missing Vernon and Garrett crippled the Browns run defense. The stats though tell a very different story.

Vernon and Garrett played the first 9 weeks together (including the week 7 Bye). First let's look at the record of the team while they played or didn't play:

Vernon & Garrett 2-6
Just Garrett 2-0
Just Vernon 0-2
Neither playing 2-2

If we just look at the run defense - the first 8 games in which they played together does not show the stout run defense of opinion here.

1st 8 games
230 attempts, 1130 yds allowed 141.25 yds per game, 4.91 yds per carry.

2nd 8 games
233 attempts, 1185 yds allowed, 148.12 yds per game, 5.085 yds per carry.

Only two teams allowed more yds per carry than the Browns 5.0 average in 2019 - Jaguars 5.1 and the Panthers 5.2.

It's no secret then that the bottom three teams averaged 5.67 wins in 2019. It's also a false norm that having a healthy Vernon and Garrett on the field vastly improves the Browns run defense since the actual stats would say otherwise.

The Browns were 4-2 without Vernon in the lineup and 2-8 when he played in 2019. The Browns were 4-6 with Garrett in the lineup and 2-4 without him playing. On paper, it would clearly appear that 15.5-million for a 1-year rental on Vernon would be a bad investment. Based on actual production, a healthy Vernon does not appear to improve the Browns run defense based on past results. Will 2020 be different, that's a huge risk the Browns are taking based on actual past production. HYPE OR NO HYPE?

Interesting.

Not a full deep dive into who they were playing and other factors that could have been at play in those wins and loses.

But interesting.

I was not a big fan of Wilk's defense. But we lost a lot of DB's over the season.

I think the draft and free agency targeted having more waves of defensive linemen. Hopefully they strengthened the line with depth and guys in rotation.

The North has strong run games. We will have to better against the run to improve our record.

I don't think "TALENT" will retard our growth and success. But we cannot yet put any goal with certainty for the simple reason that we are installing a NEW Offense and a New Defense (once again) also we don't know yet the effect the shutdown will have on our opportunity to Teach the new Systems and the playbook execution for the FIRST SEASON in the systems.

So for me we got some amazing talent we just have to get all on the same page of the SYSTEMS to guarantee any Success. And the youngsters have had probably 3 systems in a row to only confuse them in the learning process. Its hard to wipe out yesteryears systems and just learn this years new system.

Some guys will learn fast and be COMFORTABLE in the system, usually defense is quicker in the process.

So I agree we have improved our talent also add in Garrett without suspension and some key players who had injuries, OBJ, Landry, Njoku, Higgins, Vernon, to name a few. We improved on our MOST GLARING Need and that was the all important EDGE of the LOS. RT and LT to Conklin and rookie Wills that is a big time move on our part!!

But we have to get in sync with each other and play together especially the OL.

jmho

I think this team could be really good this year, but I still have the three same questions as I did last year when you and I jousted on pre-season predictions.

--QB: I think folks overrated Baker's play in 2018. He did set the rookie TD record, but his seasonal stats [which I posted] were mostly in the middle of the pack or lower. Last year, his stats were near the bottom in most important categories. Thus, he is a big question mark. I am NOT saying he can't get it done. I think he has a chance, but if he is bad again, it will be hard to win.

--Coaching: Like last year, we have a first-time HC who has limited experience as a coordinator. It appears that he can't be as bad as Freddie, but we really have no idea if he can handle a locker room that has a lot of big personalities.

--Chemistry: Can this team overcome the culture of losing or will they fold when things get tough. They folded last year when things did not go their way. It's hard to overcome a losing culture and we don't have many vets who have experienced winning.


That all sounds negative, but I do think this team can win. We just have question marks in those three vitally important areas. I think if the first two improve, the third will automatically follow. If the first two struggle, I think the chemistry thing will be an issue----again.

Those numbers are quite surprising. I would have sworn I'd seen numbers to the contrary that clearly showed a significant drop-off when Vernon & Garrett were not in there. I think it needs context rather than just the overall team numbers which includes things they aren't responsible for.


I think perhaps those numbers should be weighted with some of them PFF stats that show the individual situational stats because I'm absolutely certain I've seen data that shows both Vernon and Garrett are good against the run (aside from feeling I saw it with my eyes).

Thats 100% a given unless Kev’s mind goes the way of Freddie’s who WAS NOT NEAR READY ... *L* ...

I expect Bake to have a big bounce back year ... he will be drafted late as my 2nd about in my fantasy drafts ...

I’m ready for this years jousting ... hope u are ... *L* ..

Can’t wait to see U and Clem on the Isle ...

I’m looking forward to our swim Clem ...

You touched on something that's going to be huge.
Lack of practicing together.
New coaches,new schemes,new o-line.
I would not be shocked if they started out 1-3,0-4.
Hopefully the wheels don't fall off and they can get it together before the halfway point.

It’s so hard to really predict in this crazy season. I think we have a 8-win, minimum, roster. I feel good about KSs offense. I think Wood bring a solid plan. We have a decent ST roster.

That said, I am cautiously hopeful.

Depending upon how abbreviated the offseason camps and such are, I'm going to root for the team and have some hope, but I'm cancelling all expectations. Teams that are established and have been together for a while have an edge in any normal year. That edge is more pronounced in an offseason like this one.

It takes a lot of reps and sweat to go from "on paper" to "on field", and depending on how things go, we might not get the reps.

I think the last few posts that address the questionable amount of reps while installing new schemes w/new coaches is important. I did not even consider that.

I thought your earlier assessment of the team and their prospects for winning was accurate.

I had to post this somewhere. Ogunjobi didn't have the season he wanted last year. One thing about him, he is not complacent.

This looks incredibly difficult.

It would be helpful if Larry could take a big step forward in 2020.

That's cool. And it is difficult. My physical therapist had me standing on something similar and catching balls I threw off of a net while rehabbing my knee. It was pretty hard. Slapping away those bags has to be much, much harder.

Glad to see him working out.

When you go to the Instagram post the comments tell you that those glasses he's wearing are a training tool, not for the Florida sunshine. Apparently they are strobe classes that randomly create blind spots in his vision. It's an attempt to simulate the congested view on the interior of the line of scrimmage.

Wow, if you’re serious that’s pretty cool.

Swim? I thought that you had re-floated the Boat...

I'm serious.

Also, the full Instagram post is considerably longer and he never loses his balance.

Amazing.

this would be big. He was on a good track and kind of tailed off

It's a contract year, so I think he'll do all he can for a big improvement...jmo

J/C. We have heard "change the culture" statement now for quite some time.

First thing, we NEED to win week 1, that will change some culture as we have NOT done that in à Long time.

We have talent al over the roster, the only areas that appear to give me caution is placekicker and LB. The kicker thing scares me the most and I hope we bring in a Vet to challenge in camp. I believe that TakiTaki will improve in year 2 and so won't Mack , but it feels like the room that has the most to prove.

I agree. I’ve said for SO many years that losing week 1 is a killer. Yeah, we all can hear “it’s just one week” ... but we have a LOSING franchise and mentality. After months and months of optimism each offseason, losing week 1 makes everyone feel like “here we go again”

Thats Clems choice of transport ... we have multiple vessels including planes & helo’s ... the thief felt bad after last year so he took care os us ... ...

Every game counts but I agree.

0-1 and you are under 500. It means a lot in the Browns case. We have had two winning seasons since 1999; 2002 and 2007.

So losing the first game you dig a big hole.

Two winning seasons in 20 years and no playoffs. We won a wild card game in 1994.

Unbelievable that a team could be that bad for so long in the way the NFL has structured parity.

So in the Browns case yes winning the first game means a lot.

Not gonna read all the posts in this thread so it might have been said already but I think not having hype is a very healthy place for us to be right now. I was not sold at all last year at this time and all the hype going into the season I felt was a very bad omen. It spoke to the absolute worst mindset you can have for a young team that had proven nothing. This is not hindsight, I was rather negative about our prospects in the season prediction threads.

Having a new coach (who again has not been a head coach before), new schemes, a fair number of new players expected in starting roles and still a pretty young team overall coupled with what looks to be a very limited offseason program tells me the early season is probably going to look ugly and uncoordinated. I think we’ll be better overall eventually because I think our coach is a smart grownup who sounds like he has an actual plan and system and knows how to fashion a team around its natural strengths rather than try to endlessly fit round pegs in square holes. I think we’ll start to look better by the end of the season, but I think it’s right to temper early expectations.

Meanwhile the Ravens are returning mostly the same good team with the same coaching, the Steelers get Ben back, and though the Bengals are in long term rebuild mode they also could be a decent middle of the road team by season’s end. We’re getting no breaks. I think 8-8 give or take 2 games either way (with 6-10 much more likely than 10-6) is a very real probability. The only think working for us is non division games look somewhat favorable compared to years past. But I think we’ll be the equivalent of a gangly clumsy undisciplined teenager, our own worst enemy, for the first half. And I’ll say the same thing I said last year... I hope we can see the positives by seasons end and use it to vault into 2021. But this year, just like last year, there’s too much young greenery to expect lots of quality fruit.

Your points are good ones especially in light of this years conditions.

However, we are no longer a rookie team.

Mayfield, Chubb, Ward, are going into year three. Jarvis, Odell, Hooper, Njoku, Myles, Larry, are well into their careers.

Wills and Delpit maybe the only rookie starters.

It is time to win.

If we don't have a winning season this year (forget the virus for now) we have real problems.

I am not saying a playoff run but win nine games.

That is a very realistic goal.

I might totally agree save the gigantic reality of new coaches, new system with extremely limited offseason preparation. We’re looking at rookies starting at LT (learning a new position) and FS and a guy who barely played at all last year at LB. New to us starters/ major rotation at RT, DB’s DL and TE. In a normal year it would be a big ask to to expect a Sean McDermott’s Rams in Cleveland scenario. There’s just so much to do and get right at the very beginning of a new staff and the uptake by the players and as much as it seems our new coaches may be up to it, who really knows? He’s never been a head coach before. Making mistakes is inevitable. You’re basically expecting them to stick a very tricky landing on the first try with minimal prep. We’ll see.

When you look at the draft and free agency every year most teams change out close to a third of their rosters.

No team remains stagnate.

But yes a new staff with new schemes is a challenge.

Veteran leadership is important. How the Browns handle this is unknown.

The coaching staff has experience but not together.
Can't even remember when we had a staff together for any real length of time.

I agree that more than anything that is biggest drawback.

New coaches, new systems, new coordinators, a rook at the T position, LB is a position of need.. and there's a new rook there.

Ouchie.

Would you prefer the old coaches? the old systems? the old coordinators? the previous starting T?

Too early to say.

Edit: Although I don't think there is any possible debate that Conklin will be a major upgrade. Losing Shobert hurts on the other hand.

Things should be better, but again, too early to say.

What I'm trying to say is to temper your expectations. I'd like to give these coordinators, coaches and their system a year or two before I have playoff expectations.

Of course, I want to win. I'd like to win the opening weekend as has been mentioned. I want to finish above .500.

There are other signs of progress that I would also find encouraging.

Significant reduction of unforced penalties. Illegal motions, holding, lining up offsides, etc.

A run-first offense that is productive and efficient. Meaning, commitment to the run. Being able to get production from the run even when defenses expect us to run the ball.

Establishing a home-field advantage.

Baker reducing the interceptions. Baker making the decision to take the underneath completions to sustain drives.

Red zone efficiency.

Explosive plays on kick and punt returns. Continued improvement with kick coverage.

Increase in our run defense and our pass defense rankings.

Less missed tackles.

A healthy turn-over ratio, in our favor.

That should contribute to our win total.

I agree. Especially since we are new in this Chinese virus era. New coaching staffs are usually given 2 extra weeks of hands on coaching. We aren't given that this year.

Not saying your not saying this Bone but this team has more talent than everyone in our division where we failed was the coaching was horrible. No nice way to say this.

Haslam and the Browns hired a coach who was clearly not qualified and given the losing nature of the Browns for decades now it would have been a much better choice to go with a coach with experience.

That goes for this season as well. I can't understand the thought process that see's the Browns to once again hire a unproven HC. That doesn't mean that a coach who is a rookie can't succeed. IMO that job becomes 3 times as hard when your trying to bring a team out of decades of losing.

We should have hired a HC that has the experience to turn things who in the past may not have had the luxury of talent.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news...bt1iglkevpbxzi8

Every team in the NFL has turnover each year. For most teams, that turnover rate is approximately 33%. The Browns are not unique and using it as an excuse is B.S. The predictions for 2019 (attached) show that you have teams that go thru coaching changes, personal changes and injuries that either become over achievers or under achievers. The Browns, with their mix of veterans and youth were expected to over achieve in 2019 - they failed.

Buffalo last year was expected to go 5-11 with their 2nd year QB Allen. The team stepped up with new personal to shock the world going 10-6 and making the playoffs. In 2018, rookie coach Matt Nagy took 2nd year QB Trubisky with a new system and players and led the Bears to the playoffs. In fact, only a missed FG kept the Bears from being in the NFC Championship game. In 2019, the Bears were predicted to run the division at 11-5 and falter to a 8-8 season. A new QB starter, FA RB, new WR's, and a defense not up to par with previous teams led analysts to predict the Ravens going 8-8 in 2019. The Ravens over achieved by going 14-2 being the darling of the AFC. The LA Chargers were set for their run after a playoff spot in 2018 and expected to rule the West at 11-5 only to falter to a miserable 5-11 record in 2019. The 49ers were only expected to go 8-8 in 2019 with a bunch of new faces and question marks a plenty. Chasing the Rams who were predicted to be 11-5 after their Super Bowl run in 2018, the 49ers put it all together going 13-3 representing the NFC in the Super Bowl while the Rams struggled to an 9-7 record.

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-mav...nother-answered

Last season, predicted to go 11-5, the Browns had 3 major question marks going into the season according to this article.

1) Safety and who was going to play and/or the rotation. The Browns have the same issue in 2020.
2) OT and specifically LT. The Browns went into 2019 on a upswing considering their performance the end of 2018 of having allowed the fewest sacks in the NFL the second half of that season. This in itself seems to have faltered. In 2020, the Browns have upgraded RT with the addition of Conklin. The Browns have drafted Wills for the LT position yet questions still remain. Wills is an unknown at this point. Is he the next Joe Thomas, another Greg Robinson in sheep clothing, or something in between? The Browns offense is built to win now and Wills will be under huge pressure to beat expectations early.
3) Kicker and is Siebert is the answer. The question still remains in 2020.

The Browns have upgraded their TE, RT, FB and supposedly LT. The Browns brought in better players for the DL rotation. With these upgrades, how can anyone not expect the Browns to go 11-5 or better in 2020? In 2019, with a new coach and high expectations of 11-5, the Browns sorely under achieved as a team and an organization. In 2020, some expectations are being lowered, why? With a supposed upgrade at head coach in Stefanski, a supposed upgrade at coordinators, an upgraded roster addressing critical positions, and a high draft ranking - why wouldn't the expectation for the Browns be equal too or greater than 2019 when they also had a 1st year coach?

The bottom line is the Browns will again either be over achievers or under achievers. They are on equal footing with ever other team in the NFL at this point. There really should be no excuses - the Browns have an upgraded roster with an supposedly upgraded coaching staff. In reality, expectations should actually be higher than what was expected in 2019. For 20 plus years the Browns have failed to over achieve - any expectation less than 2019 is enabling the Browns under achievements.

All true.

Given the moves to date. I do believe that this teams plans to run the ball.

Offensively they will have multiple options.

On defense I think the team is not complete. As cuts and cap casualties happen Berry will add a few guys. I think linebacker will see additions.

Last year games were lost from excessive penalties. I don't expect that to happen again.

Baker has to improve on turnovers. I think he knows it and he will improve.

Red zone. Going into last year meaning through training camp and pre-season games. Njoku seemed like he was going to be a red zone target. He has height and leaping ability. With the additions of Hooper and Bryant TE will be a used weapon. In addition with the signing of FB Janovich I would expect power plays near the goal line. Hunt has a great nose for the endzone.

Run defense is a must. We have to be better there. It has been an issue for years. I think there will be better rotations on the DL keeping guys fresh.
My concern is strength up the middle. Karl Joseph should help.

We have a good ST coach. I like what I have seen on tape of People's Jones as a returner.

Coaching. My impression so far of KS is he will be prepared. He appears to be very calculating and thorough.

However, we don't know. Plus the conditions of this year with the virus will complicate matters.

I am cautiously optimistic. Part of my nature is I have to believe in something positive. I hate being pessimistic.

I'm just about our lack of Continuity as a team. Its almost why we thought last year was going to be GREAT. Thinking that we were going to have continuity by hiring Kitchens. But that back fired and there wasn't that continuity. Not all new the playbook backwards and forwards. Not all were in sync with the execution of plays.

And I questioned some play calling privately not on the board as there was no "PLAN" behind it...just calling a play, especially when we ran a trick play without setting it up.

Sorry about that rant. Still hoping we get in sync a.s.a.p.

jmho until we get continuity we will never be a Championship caliber team regardless of the talent!

I disagree w/your assertion. The Browns change coaching staffs and FO personnel on a regular basis. That means new philosophies, new schemes, new talent evaluators, new players to fit the schemes and philosophies, etc.

It's not even close to BS. It's a reality that has hindered this franchise since their rebirth.

We do something very similar to this in our Jujitsu classes. It builds leg strength, lots of it. It also reinforces balance. I'm kind of surprised to see it transfer to football but then again I shouldn't be. We have been using Judo to help HS linemen develop balance and leverage and it pays dividends.

I don't know many people who could do this drill for more than a second or two. He's making it look easy. I'd love to see how he transitions to the other leg.

Yes, I had the same thoughts about his other leg. Just like hand or eye dominance, I realize that extends to other extremities.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Not every new coach loses and not every one wins. Continuing to use that excuse is just B.S. The Browns have one of the if not the best roster in football. Are there question marks, heck yes. The Ravens have question marks and they went 14-2 last year.

Nagy for the Bears bought in a new defense and offense to the Bears and they went to the playoffs. At this point, considering the talent assembled, comparing this team to what has happened in the past has nothing to do with whether they achieve this year or not. Wills, Conklin, and Hooper have no idea about past issues with the Browns and basically could give a $hit. That's a fan perspective. Garrett, OBJ, Chubb and Ward don't even know Sashi, Holmgren, Chudzinski, or Shurmur or the mistakes they did or didn't make.

Approx 33% are only going to know Ski and Berry. The Browns are not in a rebuild and these guys have had the opportunity to put their mark on the team personal. Going forward, it now depends how they do their job in turning this team into a winner. Freddy is gone, Hue is gone and this is Ski's team and making excuses for past management has nothing to do with this group.

The talent is there - it's up to Ski to get the most out of that talent and what happened in the past has nothing to do with his ability or expectations to get that done.

You seem to be ignoring one huge variable here. All new HC's get an extra two weeks with which to work with their teams. With the variable of the virus, how much time will Stefanski and our coordinators have to install these new systems? Reps and familiarity with new team mates and new systems are critical to success.

Without that the Browns will be at a distinct disadvantage as will every other team with a new HC. So to even be on equal footing with previous first time NFL HC's, the NFL calendar will have to remain as is. If there are delays in that calendar with each delay it's another setback for the Browns.

With the talent on this team .... Pfffft ....

I’m expecting the Iggles from Wentz’’s rookie year, the Lambs in McVie’s first year or what the jags did making it to the championship game ...

WE HAVE MORE TALENT THAN ANY OF THOSE TEAMS ....

Temper expectations ... ...

I respect your opinion and have zero problems w/us disagreeing. However, I wish you wouldn't call my opinion BS.

I firmly believe that the constant changing of front offices, coaching staffs, rosters, drafting philosophies, value on certain types of players, new regimes getting rid of players on the roster and replacing them w/their guys/roster overhauls, lack of continuity, etc have factored into the Brown's pathetic record over the years. I don't think that is "BS." Not asking you to agree, but I don't talk out of my butt.

Each day right now the virus is front and center.

How this all plays out regarding preparation for the season is a total question mark.

Obviously technology has come a long way. The draft was virtual. I wonder how far new technology will drive this season. How things will be done and what the outcome will look like on the field.

Players can work out. You can be in shape to play. Virtual class rooms can cover a lot of things.

But at some point practice reps mean a lot.

There will be a lot of pressure to have a football season. What it will look like?

This is all new ground. What before were best and common practices will look a lot different. Some teams may have a big problem adjusting to what will have to be a new norm.

The problem is, nothing compares to men practicing on the field. Nothing replaces reps with your team mates. Nothing breeds continuity and familiarity like being on the field. You can't duplicate that and it's the only way to gain timing with your team mates.

Sure you can be in shape. But the fact is that isn't the same thing as being in "football shape". What I think a lot of fans don't realize is just how close these things are to being upon us.

April 6

Clubs that hired a new head coach after the end of the 2019 regular season may begin offseason workout programs.

May 1-4

Clubs may elect to hold their one three-day post-Draft rookie minicamp from Friday through Sunday or Saturday through Monday.

May 8-11

Clubs may elect to hold their one three-day post-Draft rookie minicamp from Friday through Sunday or Saturday through Monday.

May 11

Rookie Football Development Programs begin.

https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/2020-important-nfl-dates/

Cleveland Browns

First day: April 1
Voluntary minicamp: April 23-25
Rookie minicamp: May 3-5
OTA offseason workouts: May 14-16, May 21-23, May 28-31
Mandatory minicamp: June 4-6

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...or-all-32-teams

We are already starting to get behind.

I agree totally.

My take today is OTA's can be handled in some way. Not ideal but I think they can compensate.

Training camp. No. There has to be physical reps and all that goes into normal camp.

I am hopeful that testing can done. And the camps can be isolated. Film crews can cover them from a PR standpoint.

The season second weekend in September? Still to far out to speculate on how that will be handled.

Good thing for Larry Ogunjobi that the HGH factory is an essential business.

Yowsers. I hope he's not on anything. Love Larry O.

Things have changed since the combine.

Larry's spent all of quarantine eating creatine.

Looks to me like Larry's been bingeing on bench presses and squats during the lockdown. Better than videos, beer, and Twinkies, no?

IIRC, Larry was the guy that his doc in high school or something told him he was going to die of obesity (?). Decided to pick up football, and off he went.

Yeah that’s him.

Jacked yes, but Larry also looks trim. Which is not such a great thing. I guess he’s got lots of time to beef up the old fashioned way.

I love the guy...but I think that bicep tear ended his NFL career. JMO

Maybe it impacted him last season, but career over? Bit extreme, no?

Shifting the thread slightly to teams overhyped this year.

The Bucs. I get Brady and Gronk. I believe Ariens is a good football coach. They also have Mike Evans and OJ Howard.

Who else?

On defense they gave up 28 points a game. Only three teams gave up more points.

Rushing offense 24th.

I have great respect for Brady. But he will be 43 years old August 3rd. Age beats everyone. He is on a new team in a new offense. Under a different coach. And the virus complicates preparation.

I am not feeling it with the Bucs.

No Hype. The Colts. 7th in rushing.

Rivers was added. He is 38. One of the smartest qb's in the game.

Not saying they will be great but I think Rivers will help this team.

Chris Godwin is one heck of a talent also ...

Evans/Godwin is right behind OBJ/VG as the best WR duo in the league ...

Your right .. there gonna have to outscore everyone ... the D stunk last year and they lost the great Carl Nassib ..

The advanced stats loved Tampa Bay’s defense last year. It ranked third in DVOA.

Defense is also highly fungible from year to year so who knows how they’ll play this year.

The combo of Evans/Godwin is very good ... top 3-5 corp in the league for sure.

I also think the Saints with Sanders is a big upgrade for them

I love(d) Sanders ... not sure how much he has left .... if he’s still close to what he used to be .... that duo would be just slightly below the other two groups we mentioned IMO ...

Bucs D is better than their stats.

D-line: Suh, Vea, Pierre-Paul, and Shaq Barrett.
LBs: Lavonte David and D. White

Secondary is their weak link, although drafting Winfield will help there.

Offense should be pretty good with those WRs and TEs. RB is somewhat weak. Oline should be improved with Wirfs.

I'll start out by saying that I hope I am wrong about that. I like the guy on and off the field.

That said, I've read a lot and seen enough video (by guys like Jake Burns) that paint him as being too slow to be a penetrator and not heavy enough to be an anchor. He needs to get stronger as that is more attainable than getting "faster/quicker". I'm afraid that bicep injury may prevent him from gaining the strength that he appears to gain.

FWIW, those video breakdowns include an awful lot of situations where he completely missed his assignment or fit. I won't try to elaborate because I'm not the X/O guy that many others are here...but I've read that critique enough - and from guys whose opinion I respect - to know that it might have legs.

J/C. Tampa Bays defense had to overcome 30 INT,s by Winston, that will really kill your stats. I believe they were good against the run.

I really like Larry O, But he does seem to disappear for long stretches in games. He makes some splash plays then ffft, gone. I not sure if it is a non existant rotation thing or what. Dudes seem to get in great shape in contract years.

Yeah, Larry O regressed last year ... there was a stretch in 2018 when he was pretty darn good

I don't watch TB other than highlights. So, I don't profess I know their team.

I expect Brady to be safe with the ball so their turnovers should go way down.

But football is a team game 53 man roster. Everyone has to contribute.

Brady at 43 will be in a new offense. I am not certain about their OL. They don't have a premier runner. I know they drafted Wirfs. But he is a rookie.

I just don't think that Brady is going to waltz in there and take them somewhere special.

They are listed 7th in power rankings?? Really?

IMO I think they are overrated.

j/c:

Evans and Godwin are excellent. Also, TB's defense played very well over the last third of the season. Like Hammer said, they were put in some awful situations.

I do question how Arians will tailor his system to Brady ... Winston’s down the field game kinda matched Arians’ philosophy, and Evans/Godwin were excellent in that role.

Brady is more of a ball control guy at this point ... interested to see what their O looks like

What an unintelligent comment.

Guy is ripped = Oh well he must be on HGH.

Do you also think that coronavirus is caused by 5G and chemtrails are real?

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Ogunjobi. I went so far as to find some analysis from Jake Burns. It happened to be from the end of the 2018 season. Perhaps Burns did have a 180° turn by the end of the 2019 season but that seems farfetched. I didn't find anything from 2019 from Burns that came close to what you describe. That doesn't mean it's not out there though. This 2018 analysis clearly points to Larry's quickness, 1-gaping ability and mobility. It does hint at the fact that he played too many reps.

It's a podcast. I don't know if podcasts can be copied into Dawgtalkers. So here is the link.

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/jak...man-next-season

I am not going to say the guy is on some type of enhancement. I don't know.

I do know that a normal body has some fat. We aren't supposed to be fat free beings.

I think that is the problem with a lot of these guys. They get their muscles as taught as piano strings and don't have any natural elasticity remaining. They need to find some kind of balance.

Fat isn't a bad thing if you aren't carrying 50 lbs of it. I think it perfectly normal for a man to carry 10-15 lbs around his gut and a woman to carry 10-15 around her hips.

It's no secret here. Just look around. Guys have bigger bellies and women have bigger butts. It's been that way for eons.

You are right except that applies to regular people not world class athletes.

When you look at the scientific training methods and the diets that are designed for athletes to eat. It is a different world that they live in.

Today most people live sedentary lives. Some make a point to exercise and they join a gym or do some self training.

They don't scratch the surface of what pros go through.

Michael Phelps once said he ate 12,000 calories a day. He later cleared that up and said that was peak when he was still growing. Normal was 8k to 10k.

This breakdown on Active.com of what cyclists eat to ingest 8,000 calories. It included what that many calories looks like in a hypothetical diet:

22 eggs for breakfast

3 cereal bars

14 20 oz. bottles of sports drink

4 cups of rice

2 cups of granola with fruit

8 chicken breasts

4 bananas

That’s how much you’d have to eat to get to 8,000. So although it turns out that Phelps didn’t house 12,000 a day, he was still scarfing down tons.

Watch a Myles workout. No regular person could dream that.

Back in the day when professional football players had regular jobs in the off season. It was way different.

The money, the level of competition, the pressure to compete and stay in the game.

Eventually it led to PED's in every sport. And even with today's testing guys still try to beat the system.

Those drugs do what? They help them train even harder. Push further and add more muscle.

The speed and power in today's game of football is astonishing. If you are not ready to train at that level; someone else is. And they will take your job.

Not going declare definitely whether I think he’s juicing or not, I don’t know, but getting super ripped to the point where you can see the striated muscle fiber through the skin usually says juice but some humans indeed have a much more dynamically responsive bodies than others. I’ve gone through periods of aggressively lifting 4 days a week with dieting and moderate cardio years and I didn’t get nearly that visibly ripped. But my lineage doesn’t suggest it’s very likely either. And to be honest, I don’t want to be that vascular and vacuum packed anyway.

As far as fat goes... if you watch those strong man competitions those guys are never ripped looking. Weight = power. I learned this as a heavy weight wrestler all the way through middle and high school and one year on the team in college. Guys could look down right obese but if they knew how to use it they were much more lethal than the guys who were significantly lighter and more fit looking. I was always a relatively small heavy weight (back in the 80’s when the weight class meant everyone above 190lbs with no top limit) and it was a much more dangerous match against the humongous guys who actually knew what they were doing. They just had way more power and leverage at their disposal that you had to mind. I don’t think it’s a mistake that coaches want a big a$$ in the middle of the D line, not a body builder. Being fast and nimble is great for a lot of things but pure power and leverage matters most in that phone booth. I personally hope he’s tipping 300 again by the time the season opens (if it opens). He definitely doesn’t look it here.

You can easily get that ripped without juicing. It is purely a function of your diet.

Eat low carb, high protein/fat and run a slight calorie deficit.


In short: Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch, and no sugar. Keep intake to levels that will support exercise but not body fat.

Follow the Zone Diet as your new way of living and you will be cut like you've never thought possible.

At this time of year the Super Bowl odds come out and Power Rankings.

I begin a slow burn. I can not help myself. I begin to hate teams. I want to take them down.

Ben will be back. No more "Duck" and Rudolph. It just makes me want to destroy that team. The Ravens. I want a square hit to be had on Lamar. Want to intimidate that team in week one. The Cowgirls. The most over hyped team of all time. I love it when they fail.

The Patsy's, sick of that team. Like to see them finish last.

Other teams like the Saints. For whatever reason I don't know I just can't hate them. I respect Brees and Payton.

The Packers. I get the love affair of a team owned by their fans. I have always liked their uniforms. Was a big Farve fan and now Rodgers fan. So I only hate those teams when we play them.

It's personal inside the North.

Good stuff there. I'll add this to that:

I also seem to remember reading (earlier in his career) that Ogunjobi was a good fit as a penetrating 3T due to his athleticism...and then later I would read that he is too-slow-and-not-big-enough. I certainly don't know. I also recollect seeing him make some rather (impressive) athletic plays for a guy his size.

I have a similar recollection as to Shobert's "reported" athleticism over the years. I'd read that he was a very good athlete (and maybe even saw a video of him dunking a basketball?), and then later read that he was limited due to his athleticism. Again, I certainly don't know. I do not recollect "seeing" Joe as having limited athleticism.

(Note: When I said "guys like Jake Burns" I should have been more clear in that my Ogunjobi recollection(s) as being from a source(s) that I respected as I do Jake Burns. Not that those recollections were necessarily from comments by Jake himself. My apologies if that came off as misleading.)

That list is an eye popper! Thanks for putting those up. Some crazy amounts of work, more than I can do anymore.

Is this food mix effective without extreme exercise? I just found this to be really thought provoking. Or is this an elites only cross section? I found this interesting.

My observation: in that IG post he was caught in a split second in the middle of a drill. He wasn't "flexing" instead we saw muscle contraction necessary to complete the drill. If you're lean it's visible.

Regarding body-types and the modern interior D-line player, there is more emphasis on these players' lateral movement skills. When you think about defending spread and zone schemes, this makes a lot of sense. In the podcast I included with a recent post, Jake Burns made this point better than I can do here.

Of course, these guys vary in physical dimensions but their body composistion does factor into their play so that they can be stout when needed and they can penetrate or move laterally along the line of scrimmage.

Think Aaron Donald, Grady Jarret, Ed Oliver, our own Larry O and other young players like, Quinnen Williams and Kinlaw ( who is very lean for a plus 300 lbs player). Jordan Elliot probably belongs in this category too.

Well said.

Do you have an opinion/assessment of our new Jordan Elliot?

I think he was among the top 10 IDL players available in this draft. The biggest knock I hear about him is that he wasn't as consistent or productive as some of the other IDL in this draft. I understand that he didn't start the full 2018 season but he began to show up for Mizzou late in the year. He became a starter in 2019 and had a very solid year.

From what I've seen, he can push the pocket. He doesn't necessarily win early in the rep but he continues to work. I"ve seen him use a bull rush to do this. He is also able to get off blocks inside and make plays. He has a punch, arm extension, and a pretty good swim move. He is not a plodder. He has the footwork to make sudden moves inside to get leverage and win against blockers to his spot. He shows some ability to chase down plays from the backside. When he's engaged with a blocker he has shown the ability to reach out with one arm and stop a runner in his gap. He has a high motor which can stay revved up because we should have a good rotation to keep everybody fresh.

Needless to say, I'm high on him and just keep my fingers crossed that what I've seen is real.