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Posted By: bonefish Games without fans - 05/11/20 07:51 PM

Covid 19 has altered the way we live. Still so much unknown. One expert I heard on Meet the Press said we will have to learn to live with this virus.

Made we wonder about stadiums without fans. How would that environment affect performance?

Most players have been playing in front of people since Mom and Dad were at Pop Warner games or equivalent. Each grade up more people in the stands.

TV may add crowd noise. They may put people computer generated images into the stands. Who knows what the end result will look like.

But playing games with nobody there will have to be one strange sensation. No worry about hearing signals. But no juice. No cheers. What dance moves in the end zone with nobody there? Will the players be flat? Will the lack of crowd emotion actually change play?

I wonder. Nothing to base it on.
Posted By: SuperBrown Re: Games without fans - 05/11/20 07:58 PM
Echooooooooooooooooo

Echoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Posted By: BWinCA Re: Games without fans - 05/11/20 08:47 PM
I actually think the fans part is the least problematic. Sure the NFL will lose billions of dollars by not having all those revenue streams available when fans are in the stadium, but at least there is the TV money.

What I find serious is what happens when (not if) a player gets infected? By current rules everyone he comes into contact with will have to be quarantined for 14 days.

So say a player gets infected. The entire team has to be quarantined for 2 weeks? It will be a mess.
Posted By: SaintDawg Re: Games without fans - 05/11/20 08:55 PM
I wonder what CBA says about Covid?
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 05/11/20 09:05 PM

Lots to consider.

Testing will be done continually is my guess from the moment camp starts and before. It will be a very sterile environment for all.

Every precaution will be taken to avoid that type of thing.

But as we are learning with Pence's press secretary testing positive. Best laid plans can go wrong.

We all want normal. But we are not in charge here. The virus is.

My question is related more about game performance with no crowd?
Posted By: BWinCA Re: Games without fans - 05/11/20 09:07 PM
Originally Posted By: SaintDawg
I wonder what CBA says about Covid?


Not to mention the contracts. If the season is forfeited, what happens to the 1 year contracts? Do they just rollover to next year? What if they play a partial season this year?

They must be going crazy with all of this.
Posted By: SaintDawg Re: Games without fans - 05/11/20 09:08 PM
Originally Posted By: BWinCA
Originally Posted By: SaintDawg
I wonder what CBA says about Covid?


Not to mention the contracts. If the season is forfeited, what happens to the 1 year contracts? Do they just rollover to next year? What if they play a partial season this year?

They must be going crazy with all of this.


All legite q's. Welcome to the board.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Games without fans - 05/11/20 09:38 PM
Just make people sign a waiver, attend at your own risk.

Opening day, fans will be in the stands.

I doubt the NFL will play any games fans are completely shut out of.

So I think, Whenever they do kickoff, there will be fans, maybe limited amounts.
Posted By: TTTDawg Re: Games without fans - 05/11/20 09:55 PM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

Covid 19 has altered the way we live. Still so much unknown. One expert I heard on Meet the Press said we will have to learn to live with this virus.

Made we wonder about stadiums without fans. How would that environment affect performance?

Most players have been playing in front of people since Mom and Dad were at Pop Warner games or equivalent. Each grade up more people in the stands.

TV may add crowd noise. They may put people computer generated images into the stands. Who knows what the end result will look like.

But playing games with nobody there will have to be one strange sensation. No worry about hearing signals. But no juice. No cheers. What dance moves in the end zone with nobody there? Will the players be flat? Will the lack of crowd emotion actually change play?

I wonder. Nothing to base it on.


Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 05/11/20 10:08 PM
Crickets.

None of that 12th Man junk.

Can they still come to the stadium? half full?

Major revenue bypass. Suppose you are exposed as a player, say at SB or playoff games approaching.

I suspect that having everybody's test status may need to be done as part of injury reports.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Games without fans - 05/12/20 12:40 AM
All games will be on pay per view this year. Sunday Ticket is now $1400.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Games without fans - 05/12/20 01:25 PM
If they made testing mandatory for every player before every game, I might actually get mad. We're STILL struggling to get testing to where it should be in response to this pandemic, and football players are going to have all the testing they want so they can play games?
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Games without fans - 05/12/20 05:32 PM
ROGER GOODELL
C, UNSIGNED FREE AGENT

ESPN's Seth Wickersham reports the league and team officials have agreed on a proposal to raise the debt limit $150 million for each team to make up for lost revenue in the event that games are played without fans this season.

The proposal will be voted on next week. A recent study conducted by Patrick Rishe, the sports business program director at Washington University, showed the NFL would lose about $138 million in revenue from tickets and game-day fan spending for each week played without fans, and nearly $2.3 billion over the course of a full season. The increased debt limit has been discussed among league executives for weeks, and this pitch would raise that allotted amount from $350 million to $500 million for 2020. It's another step towards the league eventually commencing on Thursday, September 10 with the Texans and Chiefs as scheduled.

SOURCE: Seth Wickersham on Twitter
May 12, 2020, 12:12 PM ET
Posted By: clwb419 Re: Games without fans - 05/12/20 07:07 PM
Originally Posted By: BWinCA
I actually think the fans part is the least problematic. Sure the NFL will lose billions of dollars by not having all those revenue streams available when fans are in the stadium, but at least there is the TV money.

What I find serious is what happens when (not if) a player gets infected? By current rules everyone he comes into contact with will have to be quarantined for 14 days.

So say a player gets infected. The entire team has to be quarantined for 2 weeks? It will be a mess.


On the first part - it'll be fascinating to see what happens financially. Loss of billions means (theoretically) the salary cap will be impacted. We could see a reduction in the salary cap next year which would wreak havoc across the league.

Good points on quarantine.

Regarding contracts & CBA - they should all have a force majeure clause which should give guidance on what happens. If not, there are a lot of lawyers and/or agents that should be fired.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 05/12/20 10:07 PM
Yes, I guess. But if say three starters have it, the IR should notify of status or disqualify for two weeks/14 days. Opponents should have notification. How many on the positive results squad should be denied playing. Suddenly, PS might be critically important. So would building in depth.

I really favor further testing for all of us. Show the same restraint as they have at the WH. Just not for the peons. This will need to be addressed IMO before the season mechanics get finalized.
Posted By: lottadot Re: Games without fans - 05/13/20 12:31 AM
My opinion is, unless more testing capacity exists than we know what to do with & the population can be tested at will at any time for $0 cost than the NFL, and sports in general, are disingenuous and should cancel their seasons for 2020. And that could possibly be the case for 2021 and 2022. Until we have that capacity and/or a vaccine.

Keep in mind that the quickest vaccine in history was 4 years.

It would definitely suck. But for the life of me, sports and their testing needs should take the least priority there is.

I hope the player's union is well funded and strong; they should supporting their players that may not have income checks because of all this.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Games without fans - 05/13/20 12:43 AM
That would suck, to not watch your team play on Sundays for three years.

If Art Model knew that was possible, he’d roll over in his grave.

Oh wait.....
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 05/13/20 09:10 AM
Originally Posted By: Bard Dawg
Yes, I guess. But if say three starters have it, the IR should notify of status or disqualify for two weeks/14 days. Opponents should have notification. How many on the positive results squad should be denied playing. Suddenly, PS might be critically important. So would building in depth.

I really favor further testing for all of us. Show the same restraint as they have at the WH. Just not for the peons. This will need to be addressed IMO before the season mechanics get finalized.




Testing is great, but it doesn't mean much. You don't have VD until, well, until you do. Just because you are in the clear Saturday afternoon doesn't mean you are come Sunday morning.

Testing is maybe a feel good thing, but it doesn't mean squat. It means you were clean when you were tested. It doesn't mean you are now.

I don't see how they play the season without risking players and fans health. JMO

I just paid $3600 for my 2 season tickets. I really don't plan on using any of them unless there is some break through here.

My life might not be worth much to some of you, but to me it is worth a bit over $3600.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 05/13/20 11:45 AM
Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
Just make people sign a waiver, attend at your own risk.

Opening day, fans will be in the stands.

I doubt the NFL will play any games fans are completely shut out of.

So I think, Whenever they do kickoff, there will be fans, maybe limited amounts.


At this stage I'd be willing to show up opening day in the midst of a full stadium.

I get what you are saying about a waiver, and normally that would be an appropriate option. But everything about COVID is bass ackwards. We aren't in general being afforded the opportunity to accept personal risk. These restrictions aren't intended to protect you or me. If they were, people would be given opportunities to take on that risk. Instead, the restrictions are designed to protect someone, somewhere whom you may theoretically possibly pass the virus on to that just maybe fall in to the shrinking portion of people who will have more serious health issues as a result.

So while I'm sure they could find almost 68,000 fans willing to sign a waiver that is what the counter-argument will be.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Games without fans - 05/13/20 12:10 PM
We'd be really lucky if the worst thing that happened was that fans couldn't attend games. The alternative is to scary to even consider.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Games without fans - 05/13/20 12:14 PM
I have no problem w/you stating your opinion, but I think your post belongs in the Political forum.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 05/13/20 12:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I have no problem w/you stating your opinion, but I think your post belongs in the Political forum.


There's nothing political or inaccurate about it and it was a direct response to the suggestion of a waiver in order to attend a football game in person.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 05/13/20 02:06 PM
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Echooooooooooooooooo

Echoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


Do you remember when we used to talk crap about the Steelers for pumping fan noise in to their stadium? Seems like they were ahead of the curve... mad
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Games without fans - 05/13/20 05:20 PM
I didn't say your post was inaccurate. I said it belongs in the Political forum. And, it does. But whatever, I can live w/out this thread. LOL
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 05/13/20 05:24 PM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
At this stage I'd be willing to show up opening day in the midst of a full stadium.


Somehow I'm not surprised by this. You do know none of this is actually about you but all of the innocent people you come in contact with after words, right?

You aren't just making that decision for yourself.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 05/13/20 06:21 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I didn't say your post was inaccurate. I said it belongs in the Political forum. And, it does. But whatever, I can live w/out this thread. LOL


Mini mod all you want, but it still wasn't a political post.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 05/13/20 07:55 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
At this stage I'd be willing to show up opening day in the midst of a full stadium.


Somehow I'm not surprised by this. You do know none of this is actually about you but all of the innocent people you come in contact with after words, right?

You aren't just making that decision for yourself.


Aside from your misuse of the word "innocent"... that is literally what I said in regards to what the counter argument to filling out waivers would be lol

If the Browns announce that it's full steam ahead week 1, and taking them up on that makes me a selfish jerk, oh well. I guess I'm a selfish jerk then.

This might surprise you though. If I did show up to this hypothetical game and they passed out Growl Towels and asked that I wear it as a mask, I'd probably do it!
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 05/14/20 01:45 PM
It's not about you being at the stadium. It's about after you leave.

Coronavirus: How a Champions League match contributed to Italy's COVID-19 outbreak

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/co...id-19-outbreak/
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 05/14/20 07:29 PM
j/c...

Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 05/14/20 08:02 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
It's not about you being at the stadium. It's about after you leave.

Coronavirus: How a Champions League match contributed to Italy's COVID-19 outbreak

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/co...id-19-outbreak/




And those crowds were small by comparison.
Posted By: DaveyD Re: Games without fans - 05/14/20 08:16 PM
Sweet. Can we get a sitcom like laugh track too?
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Games without fans - 05/14/20 08:20 PM
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say we know a little more about Covid now and will know even more over the next two months than Italy did ... Does it mean we should have stadiums full of people ... maybe, maybe not ... lets see what happens over the next few months and how things go ...

What i do know is that comparing what happened in Italy two months ago to what may happen this September isn’t intelligent at all ... its flat out ignorant based off our knowledge base from what we’ve all ready learned and will learn over the next few months ...
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 05/14/20 10:50 PM
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say we know a little more about Covid now and will know even more over the next two months than Italy did ... Does it mean we should have stadiums full of people ... maybe, maybe not ... lets see what happens over the next few months and how things go ...

What i do know is that comparing what happened in Italy two months ago to what may happen this September isn’t intelligent at all ... its flat out ignorant based off our knowledge base from what we’ve all ready learned and will learn over the next few months ...



I am keeping a hopeful mind, but the last thing we need is a 2nd wave to blow up.

Sure, make people entering wear masks and keep them on. Prop all doors, entrance, exits, and restrooms open so people don't have to touch them to open. Have hand sanitizers at the top and bottom of all escalators. Escalator handles are nasty things.


I suppose there are things we can do to mitigate the risk, but all it takes is that one infected guy or girl to infect 50 others pre-game, who end up infecting another 50 each quarter. You know what I am saying.

But, as you said, things might change.


I will have to weigh it very carefully.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Games without fans - 05/15/20 12:39 AM
As well u should bro ... i am overly cautious also ... at our age thats smart ...

I’m not saying there’ll be fans in the stands .... and if there are i may think its not smart ... all I’m saying is we just don’t know at this point ...

Take care bud ... best to u and your wife ... thumbsup
Posted By: CapCity Dawg Re: Games without fans - 05/15/20 11:36 AM
j/c

I fully expect Goodell to cancel the season. After all, New England no longer has Brady. smile
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 05/15/20 02:34 PM
We do know more now than Italy knew then. That's why they wouldn't have had that soccer game with a crowd now. That's what we have learned.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Games without fans - 05/15/20 08:52 PM
If u think thats all we learned ... thats a real shame ...
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 05/16/20 02:21 PM
Pray tell me what we learned that makes a crowd of 60.000 people safer when gathered in a stadium?
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Games without fans - 05/16/20 03:22 PM
Condoms?
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Games without fans - 05/16/20 04:57 PM
Here's a sample of what is (probably) to come. . .

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba...atching-on.html
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Games without fans - 05/19/20 11:45 PM
https://www.brownszone.com/2020/05/19/nf...ins-a-ways-out/

NEWSNFLPA president JC Tretter says agreement with NFL to return during pandemic faces “long list of hurdles,” remains “a ways out”by Scott Petrak May 19, 2020

JC Tretter spoke to reporters for more than 20 minutes Tuesday. He needed three seconds to encapsulate the challenge the NFL faces as it works to play during the coronavirus pandemic.

“This is a contact disease and we play a contact sport,” the Browns center said on a Zoom call with area media.

Tretter’s comments matter more than most because he was elected president of the NFL Players Association in March. He’s deeply involved in discussions with the players, the union and the league.

He wouldn’t characterize his optimism that there will be a season, noting how the understanding of the disease changes constantly, the season is months away and living in a heap of hypotheticals can be paralyzing. He believes there’s a long way to go before players will be comfortable taking the field.

ADVERTISEMENT
“So there’s probably not one, two, five things, there’s a long list of hurdles we have to get over and things we have to watch and check,” Tretter said. “So we’ve stayed really up to date with everything and made sure that we’re always looking through the lens of how do we keep our players safe and healthy as well as their families.”

Although minicamp in June hasn’t been ruled out, Tretter was focused on training camp in late July as the next deadline for resolution. He said the league and union could need all that time to reach an agreement on safe working conditions.

“I think that’s still a ways out,” he said. “I don’t think we’re there at this point. I think we continually just keep looking at what new information comes out, and in the end, we’ve just got to make good decisions and safe decisions.

“And we have, I guess what you would call an advantage, of we still have time before our season is projected to start. A lot of other leagues are trying to figure this out right now and trying to piece it together, and we still have time. We’re going to keep sitting back and making sure we’re making the right choices for our players.”

Dr. Allen Sills, the league’s chief medical officer, gave an update Tuesday from the NFL’s perspective.

“We are not putting dates on the calendar at this point,” he said of a potential return.

Tretter won’t stop looking out for the health and safety of his fellow players but realizes playing the season won’t come without danger. Sills said “we fully expect” positive cases of COVID-19 will arise once teams reunite.

“There’s a level of risk to everything. You’re facing a level of risk right now going to the grocery store. There’s always going to be a level of exposure that people are going to face in this,” Tretter said. “That’s never going to be down to zero. Our job is to try to get that as close to zero as possible. And that’s why you have to kind of look at everything. In every little thing you can find a little dip and fix one issue, that just decreases the level of exposure you’ll face.

“That’s why the conversations are so long and there are so many ideas and thoughts and kind of re-evaluations. ‘Do we have to do this? Who has to be present?’ Everything is being talked about.”

Tretter said the union is having biweekly calls with players and their wives to answer questions about what playing in the NFL in 2020 could look like, as well as proceeding safely in everyday life. The reality is there are many challenges to a safe return to football.

“So the way this thing passes along is through contact, and that’s what we do for a living,” he said. “And the way we interact with each other at the facility, at practice, weight lifting, at the meal room, it is shoulder to shoulder, standing by each other, passing things around.

“So there is a long list of ideas we need to come up with on how to make this environment safe for us. And that’s why it’s going to be a lot of thinking involved in that. That’s why we have conversations and calls and we’re looking at that every day.”

Tretter is concerned about players with preexisting medical conditions and stressed the importance of testing if players are to return. Thom Mayer, the NFLPA’s medical director, told ESPN’s Adam Schefter that league engineers and sports equipment company Oakley are testing prototypes for face masks that could include N95 material.

“There’s no bad idea at this point, and you kind of have to think outside the box,” said Tretter, who hadn’t seen the prototypes. “And the way coronavirus has kind of changed how every industry is working, you can’t expect just to throw football back in and think that the virus is going to kneel down to almighty football. You have to look through different ways of making sure people stay healthy and there’s going to be new ideas, and it’s probably going to look a little different this year making sure people stay healthy.”
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 05/20/20 10:12 AM
As long as social distancing is the recommendation from health departments, I don't see how the games can be played or have fans in the stadium.
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 05/20/20 11:41 AM
This pandemic is so so dangerous to guys like me...over 60, heart disease, diabetic and now obese.

A vast majority of those deaths in NY have come from Senior Homes they are many on Long Island that also are rehab centers but the 3rd floor is the Old who cannot take care of themselves and those are the ones that dropped like flies - it was terrible.

But as sports come back. We won't get stupid but those who do not fall into the bracket I am in. Carry the disease possibly but do not fall under that danger bracket. Of course those who test positive should go into 2 week quarantine and we will have to trust people to not endanger others...I think sport will go back to being packed with fans...probably with a lot more masks on but eventually be back to coming to games in volume.

Especially in 2021 when we will have a legitimate Vaccine and guys like me who take it for the Flu and Pneumonia things will be back to normal as far as this living in fear goes!

jmho
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 05/20/20 12:12 PM

I agree.

If you don't exhibit symptoms and can be positive for two weeks?

If a player tests positive the entire team could have to be quarantined.

NLPA will have their input.

Everyone wants back to normal. But this virus is not on any schedule. It is there and it does not sleep.

Data? How can data be accurate? Leadership here or in any other country will not approve of data that reflects poorly on their performance. We have different states under different programs. The political and financial pressure will taint data. People will make their own decisions with no unified message or response.

Until there is treatment to lower the mortality rate and a vaccine to inoculate. I don't see how normal is achievable.
If the environment calls for people to be in close contact. Football is a contact sport. Stadiums are built for huge gatherings.

It seems the attitude of many is: "I am not sick. I want to do what I want. I am tired of this. I am not going to be forced to do what I don't want to do."

This means this virus is not just going to go away.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Games without fans - 05/20/20 02:16 PM
I wonder if they will come up with some sort of helmet shielding that incorporates a respirator of some sort. It seems to me that this would be a solid step towards protecting the players.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Games without fans - 05/20/20 02:42 PM
What happens when the respirators fail due to all of the helmet2helmet hits?
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Games without fans - 05/20/20 02:57 PM
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
I wonder if they will come up with some sort of helmet shielding that incorporates a respirator of some sort. It seems to me that this would be a solid step towards protecting the players.
I’ll try to find the article, but I read that this is in the works (or at least being discussed)
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 05/20/20 10:17 PM
Quote:
This pandemic is so so dangerous to guys like me...over 60, heart disease, diabetic and now obese.


No problems with the ticker, but I had/have type 2 diabetes and have put some weight back on.

About 12 years ago I was on diabetes meds and weight 280-285. I was in my mid-late 50's. I decided I needed to do something if I wanted to stick around and lost pretty much 100 lbs. I leveled out at 190 for 7-8 years. Slowly put on 15-20 the last few years, then this hit and add another 10-15 in a hurry. So, I am at 230.

That was my tipping point with the diabetes. My A1C was 6 the last time check a month or so ago. That is the borderline number. It had been holding around 5.6 for a good number of years.

I have to get after it, but as you know, it isn't as easy as it was when we were 10-15 years younger.

It is what it is. Father Time stops for nobody.
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 05/21/20 01:15 PM
jc...

On our Browns web site they are selling tickets.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 05/21/20 01:29 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
jc...

On our Browns web site they are selling tickets.


All is unknown at this point. They can't not sell tickets.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Games without fans - 05/21/20 02:02 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: eotab
jc...

On our Browns web site they are selling tickets.


All is unknown at this point. They can't not sell tickets.


Tickets are on sale now. They simply say that they cannot guarantee when/if games will be played.

Cleveland Browns Tickets | 2020 NFL Tickets & Schedule | Ticketmaster
https://www.ticketmaster.com/artist/805920?camefrom=CFC_BROWNS_WEB_TICKETS

What You Need to Know About Potential Schedule Shifts
Questions about how COVID-19 might impact your tickets to upcoming games? See our FAQs here for answers on how we’re working with the NFL, individual teams and venues to make sure you’ve got the most up-to-date information. Full refunds will be available if the NFL or the team cancels a game and it cannot be replayed, or if it is played under conditions that prohibit fans from attending. If a game is postponed or rescheduled, your tickets are valid for the new date, so hang onto them and we will keep you posted. In addition to our standard Purchase Policy, our Supplemental Terms apply.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 05/21/20 02:12 PM
Like I said, they have to sell as if things will be good. They are in a ticket selling business.


What happens down the road, who knows?

Refunds for singles will be given. For us season ticket holders, a refund or credit towards next season will be given.

I am at the age and health factor, I'll probably take the refund, then again, maybe one last gift to my Browns fan son. Let him decide if he wants to keep the PSL.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Games without fans - 05/22/20 05:32 PM
I really don't see the NFL being ready to play without fans. Remember, they have a few months to make that call. And honestly, it would be fairly easy to just delay the start of the season and place the first 4 games at the end of the schedule and play later. In fact, I would bet that that's the move they make instead of playing without fans.

However if would be the most "Browns thing" ever to have a season of a lifetime with no one there to watch it in person.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Games without fans - 05/22/20 05:34 PM
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: eotab
jc...

On our Browns web site they are selling tickets.


All is unknown at this point. They can't not sell tickets.


Tickets are on sale now. They simply say that they cannot guarantee when/if games will be played.

Cleveland Browns Tickets | 2020 NFL Tickets & Schedule | Ticketmaster
https://www.ticketmaster.com/artist/805920?camefrom=CFC_BROWNS_WEB_TICKETS

What You Need to Know About Potential Schedule Shifts
Questions about how COVID-19 might impact your tickets to upcoming games? See our FAQs here for answers on how we’re working with the NFL, individual teams and venues to make sure you’ve got the most up-to-date information. Full refunds will be available if the NFL or the team cancels a game and it cannot be replayed, or if it is played under conditions that prohibit fans from attending. If a game is postponed or rescheduled, your tickets are valid for the new date, so hang onto them and we will keep you posted. In addition to our standard Purchase Policy, our Supplemental Terms apply.
Season ticket holders were told that if they cancel games or play games without fans you will be refunded or credited for next season (only reason I went through with buying tickets this year).
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Games without fans - 05/22/20 05:35 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
jc...

On our Browns web site they are selling tickets.
I just got season tickets about a month ago. They have to still try to sell them. They will refund or credit the tickets if any games are cancelled or played without fans.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Games without fans - 05/22/20 05:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
As long as social distancing is the recommendation from health departments, I don't see how the games can be played or have fans in the stadium.
Also we have to consider, there are teams in OTHER states. So even if say Ohio clears to have full games and participants, California may not. So do yo move the Rams home game to another state?

The NFL wont open up to fans until EVERY team can have fans.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 05/22/20 07:47 PM
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: eotab
jc...

On our Browns web site they are selling tickets.
I just got season tickets about a month ago. They have to still try to sell them. They will refund or credit the tickets if any games are cancelled or played without fans.


Yep, my neighbor was able to upgrade his seats down by mine in the club seating area. Worst case scenario is you already have your tickets paid for next year.

Several teams, including the NYJ and NYG are not selling any single game tickets at this time. The Steelers announced today they are only selling 50% of their single game tickets.


Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 05/23/20 07:25 AM
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
As long as social distancing is the recommendation from health departments, I don't see how the games can be played or have fans in the stadium.
Also we have to consider, there are teams in OTHER states. So even if say Ohio clears to have full games and participants, California may not. So do yo move the Rams home game to another state?

The NFL wont open up to fans until EVERY team can have fans.


If most of the states with teams open up enough to host games, then I think teams from places that aren't there will have to play elsewhere. I'm sure there's plenty of college stadiums available.

Right now we'll hear about the players being unified in wanting the best conditions possible. No problem with that. But its also easy to take that position at a time where the NFL hasn't announced any delays OR worst case a cancelled season. It's one thing to shave a game here or there off the schedule, but there's got to be a point where the loss in pay to the players will get considered.

For argument's sake let's say the League starts talking about cancelling the season for whatever reason. Would the teams be on board with paying out a $120 million dollar payroll for no one to play a single down? How much of a reduced rate would the players be willing to accept if offered for consideration? If compensation changes hands, will it be considered an accrued season? Or will all contracts be frozen for a year? I can't imagine many players qualifying to be a FA would be on board with that considering how many of them are older than would have to deal with any stigma about the impact on their ability to play a year older and a year away from football?

I thought I heard on the news a couple days ago that the teams stand to lose an estimated $4 billion in revenue if games are played with fans, with the Cowboys being effected the most (something like $600 million???).

If/when they get to the point where the hit to their wallets is on the horizon, the messages may change.
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: Games without fans - 05/24/20 10:37 AM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Would the teams be on board with paying out a $120 million dollar payroll for no one to play a single down? How much of a reduced rate would the players be willing to accept if offered for consideration?


Good grief! All this money to do nothing while the 'average Joe' or small business is hurting big-time. I have little sympathy...
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Games without fans - 05/24/20 03:00 PM
J/c

I just saw a clip of a soccer game with piped in crowd noise (NFL is rumored to be doing this w/out fans) ... kinda eerie haha
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 05/25/20 03:31 AM
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Would the teams be on board with paying out a $120 million dollar payroll for no one to play a single down? How much of a reduced rate would the players be willing to accept if offered for consideration?


Good grief! All this money to do nothing while the 'average Joe' or small business is hurting big-time. I have little sympathy...


I largely agree with the sentiment, but what's that got to do with the topic at hand?

Let's not forget about what else is at stake aside from the teams and players missing out on stoopid money.

How many Average Joe's rely on the seasonal work from working at the stadium? How much of the Average Joe vendor that supplies stadium operations is reliant on the seasonal order?

What would be fantastic if there were no football for a season is if the players agreed to take the league minimum for their contract or position and the remaining balance of that years salary be distributed to the vendors and such that lost out on that business.
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: Games without fans - 05/25/20 11:35 AM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Would the teams be on board with paying out a $120 million dollar payroll for no one to play a single down? How much of a reduced rate would the players be willing to accept if offered for consideration?


Good grief! All this money to do nothing while the 'average Joe' or small business is hurting big-time. I have little sympathy...


I largely agree with the sentiment, but what's that got to do with the topic at hand?

Let's not forget about what else is at stake aside from the teams and players missing out on stoopid money.

How many Average Joe's rely on the seasonal work from working at the stadium? How much of the Average Joe vendor that supplies stadium operations is reliant on the seasonal order?

What would be fantastic if there were no football for a season is if the players agreed to take the league minimum for their contract or position and the remaining balance of that years salary be distributed to the vendors and such that lost out on that business.


I would be on board with that sentiment...
Posted By: PastorMarc Re: Games without fans - 05/25/20 06:23 PM
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Would the teams be on board with paying out a $120 million dollar payroll for no one to play a single down? How much of a reduced rate would the players be willing to accept if offered for consideration?


Good grief! All this money to do nothing while the 'average Joe' or small business is hurting big-time. I have little sympathy...


I largely agree with the sentiment, but what's that got to do with the topic at hand?

Let's not forget about what else is at stake aside from the teams and players missing out on stoopid money.

How many Average Joe's rely on the seasonal work from working at the stadium? How much of the Average Joe vendor that supplies stadium operations is reliant on the seasonal order?

What would be fantastic if there were no football for a season is if the players agreed to take the league minimum for their contract or position and the remaining balance of that years salary be distributed to the vendors and such that lost out on that business.


I would be on board with that sentiment...


I hate to say this but in today's society the chances of most of these players (Some Would) agreeing to minimum wage and giving to others is slim to none ... JMHO
Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain Re: Games without fans - 05/25/20 07:50 PM
Ye of little faith. smile (JK)

Before the shutdown, I would have automatically agreed. I'm wondering if that proposal might be better received now. It wouldn't be universally accepted, but a little peer pressure might possibly change the tide.
Posted By: BarkinMad Re: Games without fans - 05/25/20 07:58 PM
Originally Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain
Ye of little faith. smile (JK)

Before the shutdown, I would have automatically agreed. I'm wondering if that proposal might be better received now. It wouldn't be universally accepted, but a little peer pressure might possibly change the tide.


I don't mean to butt in on the convo, lol, but just to add my 2 cents, I can't see players, coaches, etc...taking minimum wage or even a big wage reduction at all. That just soundstoo much like a utopian society that just doesn't exist. imo
Posted By: BarkinMad Re: Games without fans - 05/25/20 08:00 PM
games without fans will be very strange, I've been watching wrestling and their weekly shows and ppv's are very strange without fans, I just think sports needs a crowd to set the atmospheric tone. imo
Posted By: PastorMarc Re: Games without fans - 05/25/20 08:36 PM
Originally Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain
Ye of little faith. smile (JK)

Before the shutdown, I would have automatically agreed. I'm wondering if that proposal might be better received now. It wouldn't be universally accepted, but a little peer pressure might possibly change the tide.


I hope your right and I'm wrong smile
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 05/25/20 10:03 PM
For me, the game is the draw, but so is the crowd experience at the venue as a destination event. Until we are vaccinated or something wearable and protective is available, we can't safely assemble. We are not yet ready to handle large packed crowds, regardless of political machinations or how many "experts"' opinions you stack up. Predictions and models be hanged. If you are encouraging practices damaging to the public with real potential for real harm, which we have seen, then you are in the wrong side of this until you show better control and judgment. Love sports, but I won't be going soon. Other folks have personal rights, but they are not limitless. Arguing for better management of risk and organized responses.

I don't want to see another wave. If the first 90K didn't matter much, I don't realistically expect the next 90K to hold more sway. That is proof.

Safe crowds. Safe sports. Be a fan when you can.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 05/25/20 10:16 PM
We will find outy. Now that were are opening up, we will see spikes in cases and deaths. No way around it as long as it is here.

Just because some think it safe enough, it doesn't mean it is.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 05/26/20 12:13 AM

Spot on Bard.

I could not agree more.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Games without fans - 05/26/20 12:30 AM
I dont need to attend games, just seeing our teams play on tv would be a huge leap forward.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Games without fans - 05/26/20 01:10 AM
Agreed 100 %.
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Games without fans - 05/26/20 08:55 AM
Browns fans headed to games this fall.

Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Games without fans - 05/26/20 09:26 AM
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Browns fans headed to games this fall.

we better make those suits orange instead of yellow tho smile
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 05/26/20 09:51 AM
Looks like the Sept and early October games are going to be uncomfortably warm.
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Games without fans - 05/26/20 01:43 PM
Those are similar to what my girlfriend has to wear to see her COVID patients. It’s brutally hot even in an AC’d nursing facility. I couldn’t imagine being out in the sun in one.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 05/27/20 03:25 AM
Our new unit need a helmet stripe. At least no Cleveland up your leg. This is the third color alternative, the NFL FutureChillin'Chilluns option.
Posted By: BWinCA Re: Games without fans - 06/06/20 07:37 PM
My prediction is that there will be enough teams who have to quarantine players that the NFL will have to reluctantly come to the conclusion to either postpone or cancel the season. You can't have a legitimate season if 3-4 teams have to quarantine for at least 14 days. It only takes one player or coach from each team.

Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Games without fans - 06/06/20 08:05 PM
Or they could just have that individual player quarantine and Get On With It.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 06/06/20 11:34 PM
Imagine some team playing a ringer or two to get the opponent's star(s) into a quarantine situation. At the right time, a pair off games off could really swing things around.

Now is the NFL that mercenary and cold-souled to manipulate a win or two like that? I must be joking. This is laughable just to imagine. But I would want to know s COVID status on every opposing team member, just like an injury report. Testing accuracy, quarantine time, re-tests, lots of wrinkles on this. Who would try to fiddle the rules?
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 06/07/20 03:29 PM
You know Belichick has to have his post Brady tactics in place. Maybe you just described one of them?
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: Games without fans - 06/07/20 03:43 PM
Originally Posted By: BWinCA
My prediction is that there will be enough teams who have to quarantine players that the NFL will have to reluctantly come to the conclusion to either postpone or cancel the season. You can't have a legitimate season if 3-4 teams have to quarantine for at least 14 days. It only takes one player or coach from each team.



That's a thought-provoking issue. Perhaps an unrestricted movement of practice squad players back-n-forth or an increase to the roster of sorts...
Posted By: BWinCA Re: Games without fans - 06/07/20 10:21 PM
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: BWinCA
My prediction is that there will be enough teams who have to quarantine players that the NFL will have to reluctantly come to the conclusion to either postpone or cancel the season. You can't have a legitimate season if 3-4 teams have to quarantine for at least 14 days. It only takes one player or coach from each team.

That's a thought-provoking issue. Perhaps an unrestricted movement of practice squad players back-n-forth or an increase to the roster of sorts...


Yea, but how would it be if we lost Mayfield, Chubb, OBJ, Myles, etc for several weeks, while Baltimore was lucky and didn't lose anyone. Or in the playoffs half the teams who were made up of mostly scrubs faced off against relatively healthy teams. There would be no credibility. Would be worse than having someone major out due to injuries.

But it may not even reach that point. College sports are now being affected a lot. NFL for sure is taking notice.
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: Games without fans - 06/07/20 11:39 PM
Originally Posted By: BWinCA
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: BWinCA
My prediction is that there will be enough teams who have to quarantine players that the NFL will have to reluctantly come to the conclusion to either postpone or cancel the season. You can't have a legitimate season if 3-4 teams have to quarantine for at least 14 days. It only takes one player or coach from each team.

That's a thought-provoking issue. Perhaps an unrestricted movement of practice squad players back-n-forth or an increase to the roster of sorts...


Yea, but how would it be if we lost Mayfield, Chubb, OBJ, Myles, etc for several weeks, while Baltimore was lucky and didn't lose anyone. Or in the playoffs half the teams who were made up of mostly scrubs faced off against relatively healthy teams. There would be no credibility. Would be worse than having someone major out due to injuries.

But it may not even reach that point. College sports are now being affected a lot. NFL for sure is taking notice.


With the large number of people (players, coaches, etc) involved, I just don't see how they can pull this season off.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/08/20 09:40 AM
If one player, coach, trainer, etc. tested positive, I would think the entire team would need to quarantine for 2 weeks.

I wonder what would happen if a team had 5-6 players die from the virus. Would they get some special draft status?
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 06/08/20 11:17 AM
Even if the NFL embraced a "The Game must go on!" mantra and position, the reality would have to include some kind of roster upkeep and allocation to compensate for COVID quarantine numbers. Still have enough to play is a necessity.

I wonder this morning what the bookies are thinking while football is all covered up with the variables.

Another is this: As a player, do I have the right to sign a waiver and declare myself as a player even though I have proof of confirmed exposure, that I accept the risk and will play anyway? This opens another can of worms completely. How long does exposure results last? Will you ever clear tests again?
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Games without fans - 06/08/20 12:41 PM
Oh wow. I don't think any players will be dying from it.
Posted By: BWinCA Re: Games without fans - 06/08/20 01:18 PM
Some players will want to sign a waiver and some players will want to protect their family, not to mention their parents. Players may not die but it's not unlikely that some parents of players may die.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Games without fans - 06/08/20 02:28 PM
This might sound loony, but when you join the army, you go away for months at a time, so why can’t NFL teams go into quarantine for the entire five-month season?

They could stay in close contact (via computers) with their families. I understand it would suck, but do they wanna play and get paid?

Just throwing that out there.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 06/08/20 02:47 PM

The players union of both the NFL and MLB are very strong. There are player rep's and then union lawyers.

In the end analysis it is billionaires and millionaires deciding on what is best for them. The two sides line up neither trusting the other.

Very hard to figure out the end game.

Players away from their families for five months? Not saying it should not be considered but I doubt that will hit the table.

There is about 12 weeks before games. Lot's of things can happen.

Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/08/20 05:17 PM
We just have and still are pulling off massive protests - I think we can start with the sports. This 10 people bs is just that. People got to be smart. Wash hands - don't put hands on mouth, nose, eyes or ears without washing. Bring clorox hand wipes to wash - I do before golf - I have one for the cart and anything I touch on the cart (even though they spray wash the carts with disinfectant) The other towelette I use on my hands and face when I wish. Only thing I do wrong is pick up the flag to get ball once in...I always forget.

But go see a game outdoors. should be no problem people just have to be smart. Deaths in our County (Suffolk) which was high risk is down to -0- They killed off all the Seniors in Nursing homes. smh morons as that was the bulk of our losses!
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Games without fans - 06/08/20 05:36 PM
Originally Posted By: lampdogg
This might sound loony, but when you join the army, you go away for months at a time, so why can’t NFL teams go into quarantine for the entire five-month season?

They could stay in close contact (via computers) with their families. I understand it would suck, but do they wanna play and get paid?

Just throwing that out there.


This is what I was thinking to. Once the season starts the teams would stay quarantined.
Posted By: BWinCA Re: Games without fans - 06/08/20 06:05 PM
The good news is that AstraZeneca reports that they are currently conducting tests for a vaccine on humans which has so far proved successful in other trials. If it is effective on humans they have signed agreements for at least 400 million doses at first and have secured total manufacturing capacity for one billion doses so far and will begin first deliveries in September 2020.

I imagine that the NFL would make sure that they are at the front of the line.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Games without fans - 06/08/20 06:18 PM
Yup, it's just a deployment.
Easy peasy, and tens thousands of men & women do it every year for WAAAAY less money and with WAAAY more personal risk.
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/09/20 02:14 PM
There is no upward spike in cities that has had thousands of protests or sadly Riots (the last seems to have stopped). Which we were told by politicians would happen.

But it hasn't and just now the W.H.O. has stated that the spreading of the disease via surface contact is rare. Wash hands, wash face and 99% safety has been achieved.

Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Games without fans - 06/09/20 02:32 PM
1. It is WAY too early to see any impact from the protests/riots. Give it three weeks.

2. One of the last organizations I'd take at face value in all of this is WHO. They have repeatedly and consistently been wrong before having to walk back proclamations.

3. Washing hands doesn't do anything when there are 21 other guys on the field with you all breathing heavily from exertion.
Posted By: BWinCA Re: Games without fans - 06/09/20 02:40 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
just now the W.H.O. has stated that the spreading of the disease via surface contact is rare. Wash hands, wash face and 99% safety has been achieved.



Fyi-

"The World Health Organization’s new announcement about COVID-19 was a huge mistake"

Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, head of WHO’s emerging diseases and zoonosis unit] acknowledged that some studies have indicated asymptomatic or presymptomatic spread in nursing homes and in household settings.

More research and data are needed to “truly answer” the question of whether the coronavirus can spread widely through asymptomatic carriers, Van Kerkhove added.

https://www.alternet.org/2020/06/the-wor...m_campaign=4738
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Games without fans - 06/09/20 02:58 PM
I don’t understand at this point why anyone would follow the WHO or CDC for guidelines. I know I don’t... I just do everything in my power to protect myself. Cloth masks when around any public, N95 masks when in enclosed public spaces, strict policies about coming and going from home including using the garage door instead of the front door, shoes off, clothes off, cleaning my phone or other objects that have been used while out, quarantining mail, washing hands well after any outside of home appearances, no one in my home except me and my girlfriend, small social circle and social distancing within that group... etc.
I don’t need the WHO or anyone else to tell me to protect myself. Do it all and you’ll know you’ve done everything in your power to protect yourself and your family.
Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain Re: Games without fans - 06/09/20 03:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

I wonder what would happen if a team had 5-6 players die from the virus.
It's hard to find comprehensive data*, but looking over several stories from the web search "Who is dying from COVID-19", it looks like the overwhelming majority of deaths are people older than 60, and most if not all of those under 60 had major health issues.

Young, world-class athletes have a near 0% chance of death from COVID-19, both because of their state of health, and their access to high-end health care. The possibility of pro football players dying are pretty much non-existent, let alone 5-6 players from the same team.

*There's lots of data on deaths, but little breakdown of correlation to other health conditions beyond 'other health conditions.'
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Games without fans - 06/09/20 06:07 PM
Originally Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

I wonder what would happen if a team had 5-6 players die from the virus.
It's hard to find comprehensive data*, but looking over several stories from the web search "Who is dying from COVID-19", it looks like the overwhelming majority of deaths are people older than 60, and most if not all of those under 60 had major health issues.

Young, world-class athletes have a near 0% chance of death from COVID-19, both because of their state of health, and their access to high-end health care. The possibility of pro football players dying are pretty much non-existent, let alone 5-6 players from the same team.

*There's lots of data on deaths, but little breakdown of correlation to other health conditions beyond 'other health conditions.'


The likelihood of death is relatively low for these players. Though obesity is a comorbidity. There’s a few linemen that fall into that category. The bigger thing is if a player gets it damn near the entire team will end up with it. Too many air-conditioned meeting rooms, too much physical contact at practice, etc. If even 20 of your 53 get ill they’ll miss 14 days minimum from the time of their sickness. Two games of playing with half a roster... how will that work?

They either quarantine teams for the entire season or I just don’t know how they play this year.
Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain Re: Games without fans - 06/10/20 12:35 AM
I don't disagree with you Portland, I was responding to the specific suggestion of players dying from the virus.

Also, there's a difference between fat OL who are still very physically active with healthy lungs, and a fat person who gets winded walking to the corner.
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/10/20 03:27 PM
Actually for those over 10 days ago should have a spike and going to the ER for a bad cough and/or fever. No spike there. Not saying in results in deaths or things like that. It takes 2 hours now to get results for testing.

Don't know elsewhere but at my Hospital of choice. If I go to the ER which will be soon. The first things they do is test me for the Virus. 2 hours later they will assign me to the proper procedures. The exception of course is where life threatening emergencies are concerned. They will be treated quickly but in those strick anti-virus garb.
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/10/20 03:32 PM
A Brooklyn Doctor who was up front and in charge in a direct battle with this virus. Finally got a breather as it has calmed down significantly. And he said look, they studies the effects and observed first hand of the virus and after all this have come to the conclusion. If all simply Wash their hands prior to touching their mouth, nose or eyes. They will be just fine. People going to work....take a shower and their high risk loves ones at home will be safe. The masks are better to have than to have not but are over valued in the safety.

Just regurgitating what he stated.
Posted By: BWinCA Re: Games without fans - 06/10/20 07:40 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
A Brooklyn Doctor who was up front and in charge in a direct battle with this virus. Finally got a breather as it has calmed down significantly. And he said look, they studies the effects and observed first hand of the virus and after all this have come to the conclusion. If all simply Wash their hands prior to touching their mouth, nose or eyes. They will be just fine. People going to work....take a shower and their high risk loves ones at home will be safe. The masks are better to have than to have not but are over valued in the safety.

Just regurgitating what he stated.


Well, it's always good to combine research with practical experience to get a full view of the picture. And no doubt that washing hands, by almost every account, is the best prevention to catching the disease.

But masks being over rated? Personally, I have to question that. According to WebMD more than 600 healthcare workers have died from Covid-19 nationally, and more than 450,000 health workers may have contacted Covid-19, even though that figure may be less than actual.

And what group of people are more conscious of washing their hands than healthcare workers? Not to mention that most of the ones on the front line are most likely not in the high risk age groups. If they are catching it and are probably the group that are most stringent washing their hands and wearing masks, then imo this thing is highly contagious and anything that can possibly protect you is worth considering.

Not to mention that almost all research says that after direct contact, catching it from someone sneezing or coughing is the 2nd most easiest way to catch it.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 05:25 AM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
I dont need to attend games, just seeing our teams play on tv would be a huge leap forward.


I agree, and I have season tickets. Just not sure if that is going to happen. I hope it does.

I have told my wife that if the teams do play without fans, we are still heading up to Cleveland at least a couple of time to watch on TV there. Spending nights in a Marriott Courtyard, attending the games is just a part of what I like to do. I am not going to totally give that up.

I am determined that in these trying times, I am going to make smart, safe choices, at least as safe as one can without heading down the rabbit hole for good, and try to lead a normal life as much as possible.

I can watch a game at a bar. If the bar does a poor job of providing adequate space, pick another that does. Watch the bar/restaurants cleaning procedures when a customer leaves. Are they spraying down or just wiping down with a napkin and that is that.

There is a little meat and 3 plate lunch diner I like to eat at 3-4 times a week for lunch. They do a really good job. Every other table, no salt and pepper on the tables. It is collected and wiped down in a bleach solution and kept under plastic on one of the tables not in use. They are taking the proper steps.

Be observant.
Posted By: eotab Come on ALREADY! - 06/11/20 01:28 PM
Not only football but enough already this bs step 2 etc is not scientific it is over done. Just open it up with some logical procedures.

1. Tests results are now in after 2 hours. Everyone, and I mean everyone from coaches, players to all employees. They all get tested and within 2 hours they can commence.

All work out areas must be washed after use with disinfectant and then soap and water. Workers not coaches and players must wear gloves and if with others in the vicinity then masks.

Players and coaches must go wash hands after every work out on a specific equipment. Disinfectant Towelettes should be available so that a trip to a sink is not necessary.

Spitting not allowed any where. If necessary Buckets should be present.

No communal watering. Individual bottles. baskets of Cups filled with water/gatorade are to be brought in for players to drink. After practice session all are asked to shower with Dial disinfectant soap. At that point they may go to Spa, with spacing. Ice baths provided but one to a player emptied cleaned and then refilled. Any steam baths also cleaned and disinfected periodically.

All players will take a temp test before leaving.

Each day follows the procedure.

These inching forward is ridiculous. I'm sure 1 month ago they sounded pretty necessary but one thing with this epidemic - these change fast one way or another. What makes sense one week is totally senseless the next week!

jmho - Lets start Football among other things.
If we can assemble in protest...we can watch sports and go out at our own risks. They (politicians) are treating us like we are unintelligent little toddlers. These Dumb Asses are the last I want making decisions about my life and in a manner that is not made by law but by EDICT like we live in a Totalitarian ran country... smh
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 01:59 PM
Front line workers all wore masks...some even that Plastic face guard.

Sneeze and cough are easy to observe. And one should go and wash the hands and face after being near the person. But the eyes are exposed even if wearing a mask. I'm not saying to not be cautious and follow common sense guide lines. What I'm saying is by what "RIGHT" do these politicians have to dictate the process. I don't trust them. They have proven to be actually STUPID in their decisions rather than spot on. That is my objection. When I go out I have a mask...as soon as I am coming close to population...I put on the mask. I am about as High Risk as they come only those in Nursing homes are higher and they were Slaughtered by these STUPID Politicians. And I mean Slaughtered! They should be made responsible.
Posted By: BWinCA Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 04:35 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
Front line workers all wore masks...some even that Plastic face guard.

Sneeze and cough are easy to observe. And one should go and wash the hands and face after being near the person. But the eyes are exposed even if wearing a mask. I'm not saying to not be cautious and follow common sense guide lines. What I'm saying is by what "RIGHT" do these politicians have to dictate the process. I don't trust them. They have proven to be actually STUPID in their decisions rather than spot on. That is my objection. When I go out I have a mask...as soon as I am coming close to population...I put on the mask. I am about as High Risk as they come only those in Nursing homes are higher and they were Slaughtered by these STUPID Politicians. And I mean Slaughtered! They should be made responsible.


I know this discussion has been talked about a lot elsewhere but to be honest I haven't read it. So I will just ask a couple of things, if that's cool:

1) I agree that politicians, for the most part, suck. But does that mean everything they say is BS? Can some of them be right about anything, especially if it follows the advice of almost the entire scientific community?

2) For that matter, why even listen to them? They aren't the experts- the scientists are. And yea, some things the CDC and WHO have said are complete [censored], and some are contradictory. But if 90% of scientists agree on something, doesn't that say something?

3) If you are in a store and someone near you sneezes, wouldn't you feel a bit more comfortable if they had a mask on when they sneezed? Of if a loved one was there? What about you sneezing? Does it matter that you have a better chance of infecting someone like yourself because you don't have a mask on?

These are just some thoughts I had while reading your comments and was curious.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 05:43 PM
Unless they are going to start writing fines for not wearing masks, people will decide for themselves if they want to wear one or not.

Sometimes that decision is based on scientific evidence, sometimes it's just to not be the pariah in public, and sometimes it's just because they don't give a rats behind and are going to do what they want, how they want.

Much like the lock downs, there was not much enforcement, it was basically left to people to respect the request or not.

A lot of times, I think politicians use the fear angle to get the results they want, rather than the compassion and courtesy angle. You know, like the old saying, "You catch more flies with honey"

Of course it doesn't help when at first we didn't need masks and then we did, and then they might not really be helping, and then and then and then. When the message changes on a daily basis, it is hard to get compliance.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 07:11 PM
Shhhh, he's on a roll. Give it a minute and we'll hear how the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

Don't tell him that around 40% of those afflicted with Coronavirus are asymptomatic and that taking people's temperatures only make people feel better about it. Those who are asymptomatic and have not yet shown symptoms can still spread the virus.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 07:14 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Shhhh, he's on a roll. Give it a minute and we'll hear how the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

Don't tell him that around 40% of those afflicted with Coronavirus are asymptomatic and that taking people's temperatures only make people feel better about it. Those who are asymptomatic and have not yet shown symptoms can still spread the virus.


But I read just yesterday I think, from the cdc or who, that asymptomatic people aren't spreading the virus, but maybe they are. 2 different articles.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 07:19 PM
Yeah, pick one. How many times have you heard of a person that has a contagious disease that they can't spread? And what about those who will show symptoms but haven't yet?

No need to reply arch. I know you just want to argue while the virus is once again increasing in over 20 states.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 07:25 PM
Dude, I wasn't arguing - at all. I read that yesterday, that asymptomatic people aren't spreading it, and a few articles later they thought (cdc, or who) they were.

Wear masks, one says, don't wear masks unless you're sick another says. Then a day or a week later it changes again.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 07:33 PM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Dude, I wasn't arguing - at all. I read that yesterday, that asymptomatic people aren't spreading it, and a few articles later they thought (cdc, or who) they were.

Wear masks, one says, don't wear masks unless you're sick another says. Then a day or a week later it changes again.


The distinction is supposedly in asymptomatic people who will never have symptoms vs asymptomatic people who will eventually have symptoms and become sick. The former, apparently/supposedly, do not easily spread the virus. The latter, still spreads it quite easily.

The information is mostly useless because you will never know who is who, or when because.... they don't have symptoms (not even a fever for the people to check at the front door).
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 07:39 PM
https://news.yahoo.com/clarifies-covid-19-spread-without-173511286.html

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/while-asymptomatic-spread-coronavirus-happen-221139379.html

https://www.aol.com/2020-06-08-who-says-..._jCq73Zz22V1e1A
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 07:56 PM
So in none of those cases does it say asymptomatic people do not spread the virus. The only disagreement seems to be on how much they spread the virus.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 08:01 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
So in none of those cases does it say asymptomatic people do not spread the virus. The only disagreement seems to be on how much they spread the virus.


Okay, argue all you want. I was agreeing with you, and listed why it's all confusing as hell. Carry on with knocking me any chance you think you can.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 08:12 PM
I don't do it "any chance I can". I choose my battles with you. And in case you missed it, which obviously you did, I simply summed up the point of the discussion in the articles you posted.
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 09:28 PM
Quote:
Unless they are going to start writing fines for not wearing masks, people will decide for themselves if they want to wear one or not.


Cool I am all for $10,000 fines.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 11:28 PM
Quote:
Of course it doesn't help when at first we didn't need masks and then we did, and then they might not really be helping, and then and then and then. When the message changes on a daily basis, it is hard to get compliance.


I don't want to get into this too much because it appears that a lot of the opinions are politically motivated. However, I will say that of course there is going to be conflicting information. It's a new virus. We don't have all the answers. We are trying to figure it out as we go.

I think the restrictions helped a lot. I think folks are not being cautious enough in these last 2-3 weeks. I think that when we don't have all the answers, it would be wise to error on the side of caution rather than be selfish and indulgent. I think we should put the interests of others ahead of own when it comes to situations like this one.
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Games without fans - 06/11/20 11:36 PM
We are oppisites on this subject. I could die from this virus. [Many folks around here don't give a crap not the word I wanted to use] They want nothing more than to be able to do what the hell they want whenever they want, and to hell with everybody else.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Games without fans - 06/12/20 12:12 AM
Quote:
We are oppisites on this subject.


Did you mean that you and I are opposite of many folks on this issue or that you and I have opposite views? Because I agree w/you and I am wondering if I did a poor job of wording my post.
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Games without fans - 06/12/20 12:17 AM
Your wording was just fine. I am just frustrated and tired of defending the average person. Who won't stand up for themselves.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/12/20 08:38 AM
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
We are oppisites on this subject. I could die from this virus. [Many folks around here don't give a crap not the word I wanted to use] They want nothing more than to be able to do what the hell they want whenever they want, and to hell with everybody else.





Yep, selfish people. The world revolves around them.

Get with the program or stay in your home. If not, fine them and smack them in the face 3 times.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/12/20 09:53 AM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
If they made testing mandatory for every player before every game, I might actually get mad. We're STILL struggling to get testing to where it should be in response to this pandemic, and football players are going to have all the testing they want so they can play games?



Why not? Like I have said all along, testing doesn't mean much.

OK....you were clean a few days ago, that doesn't mean you are today.

Great, you were clean in the past. That has nothing to do with today or tomorrow.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Games without fans - 06/12/20 01:57 PM
Not sure this is a PFF topic but it's here so ... I see the issue with using a limited supply of testing for pro-sports is that it uses up the limited supply in a non critical area for the populations overall health.

I agree 100% that the test - at that moment - may not mean too much, especially for an athlete about to take the field. But taking away the ability to use that test on someone else who is sick, might be sick, was exposed or is going to expose others is important. To me the single biggest challenge to the whole CV issue is that we do not have enough data.... those tests should be used to try to complete as much meaningful data as possible. Just my take.
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: Games without fans - 06/12/20 02:38 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
... it would be wise to error on the side of caution ...


Bingo! Of course there are too many who seem to believe "it's all about me"...
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/15/20 09:34 PM
j/c...


Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Games without fans - 06/15/20 10:12 PM
I'm interested to see the projected numbers. The NFL cap has been spiking as a result of many factors, but I never thought it would continue on it's wildly aggressive trend forever. This current climate could exacerbate it.

Maybe Myles signs his deal sooner rather than later?
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 12:46 PM
Sure they can be right about SOMETHING not my point. Same with Scientists who actually been right as much as they have been wrong.

My point is the Scientist should convey their opinions. But nobody including politicians should DICTATE to anyone what they HAVE TO DO. As stated I put on a mask when in company of some population. But if I'm seeing my sons and wish to give them a hug - that is my choice. If I feel safe with someone I know that is not coughing or sneezing and I don't wish to wear the mask...that is MY CHOICE.

They (politicians) or hypocrites. No funerals allowed but they used a situation and it became a spectacle made by them not about race but a directive for the Black votes to be made for Blue candidates not Red. But crowds were allowed. I have nothing against a memorial for Floyd. What I don't like is how come all of a sudden its ok and safe to congregate in a massive way that we saw but you have to eat outside of a restaurant or get arrested. You can not celebrate Birthdays, or Graduations. But you can protest.

Sorry for getting off topic. My point is Freedom. Sure they have a duty I guess to educate us regarding the Virus. But they have to leave it up to us to execute safety. For the most part I see it being done without a DICTATION. And the Scientists have been wrong with a lot. December and January it was noted as a virus that was not spread human to human. That was wrong.

Now we are finding out that spreading the virus from the surface is a rare occurrence. But we all have our freedom. When I go golfing I wipe down most of the surface with my Disinfectant Wipes that I bring with me. I do not wear a mask. That is my choice...When I go to the window to pay...I have a mask on. I have a bottle of purell hooked onto my bag. Let us be smart and make our own DECISIONS. These BANS are ILLEGAL.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 02:08 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
Sure they can be right about SOMETHING not my point. Same with Scientists who actually been right as much as they have been wrong.

My point is the Scientist should convey their opinions. But nobody including politicians should DICTATE to anyone what they HAVE TO DO. As stated I put on a mask when in company of some population. But if I'm seeing my sons and wish to give them a hug - that is my choice. If I feel safe with someone I know that is not coughing or sneezing and I don't wish to wear the mask...that is MY CHOICE.

They (politicians) or hypocrites. No funerals allowed but they used a situation and it became a spectacle made by them not about race but a directive for the Black votes to be made for Blue candidates not Red. But crowds were allowed. I have nothing against a memorial for Floyd. What I don't like is how come all of a sudden its ok and safe to congregate in a massive way that we saw but you have to eat outside of a restaurant or get arrested. You can not celebrate Birthdays, or Graduations. But you can protest.

Sorry for getting off topic. My point is Freedom. Sure they have a duty I guess to educate us regarding the Virus. But they have to leave it up to us to execute safety. For the most part I see it being done without a DICTATION. And the Scientists have been wrong with a lot. December and January it was noted as a virus that was not spread human to human. That was wrong.

Now we are finding out that spreading the virus from the surface is a rare occurrence. But we all have our freedom. When I go golfing I wipe down most of the surface with my Disinfectant Wipes that I bring with me. I do not wear a mask. That is my choice...When I go to the window to pay...I have a mask on. I have a bottle of purell hooked onto my bag. Let us be smart and make our own DECISIONS. These BANS are ILLEGAL.




They aren't illegal. The commerce clause of the constitution allows the federal government to restrict movement to prevent the spread of communicable diseases from other countries to ours or from state to state. The Secretary of Health and Human services is over this. The CDC is also given broad powers of quarantine. They can order you to stay put or wear a mask.

The individual states and local communities also have the power of quarantine and enforce local hygiene practices.

You may not like it, I may not like it, but it is well within the purview of the law on every level, be it Federal, State, Tribal, or Local.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 02:28 PM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Oh wow. I don't think any players will be dying from it.



I don't "think" so either, but people do die from this and it is now shown its isn't just 70 year old's and older who die.

No doubt they have a better chance. Each decade you live, you are a decade closer to meeting your match. Something is going to catch all of us sooner or later. I don't think anybody gets out of this life alive. Poof, it over. You are only a memory as long as there are people who still think of you from time to time. After that, you are just a name on a gravestone.

Many of you are 20-40 somethings. Well, your parents aren't. You probably have some Aunts and Uncles who aren't. Grandparents? In some cases, maybe a brother or sister, cousins?

My mother was the youngest daughter in a family of 7 sisters. I have cousins who were like 20 years older than I was, they were adults to me when I was a little tyke....most of the oldest have passed. You get up in to your late 80's, early 90's that happens.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 02:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: eotab
Sure they can be right about SOMETHING not my point. Same with Scientists who actually been right as much as they have been wrong.

My point is the Scientist should convey their opinions. But nobody including politicians should DICTATE to anyone what they HAVE TO DO. As stated I put on a mask when in company of some population. But if I'm seeing my sons and wish to give them a hug - that is my choice. If I feel safe with someone I know that is not coughing or sneezing and I don't wish to wear the mask...that is MY CHOICE.

They (politicians) or hypocrites. No funerals allowed but they used a situation and it became a spectacle made by them not about race but a directive for the Black votes to be made for Blue candidates not Red. But crowds were allowed. I have nothing against a memorial for Floyd. What I don't like is how come all of a sudden its ok and safe to congregate in a massive way that we saw but you have to eat outside of a restaurant or get arrested. You can not celebrate Birthdays, or Graduations. But you can protest.

Sorry for getting off topic. My point is Freedom. Sure they have a duty I guess to educate us regarding the Virus. But they have to leave it up to us to execute safety. For the most part I see it being done without a DICTATION. And the Scientists have been wrong with a lot. December and January it was noted as a virus that was not spread human to human. That was wrong.

Now we are finding out that spreading the virus from the surface is a rare occurrence. But we all have our freedom. When I go golfing I wipe down most of the surface with my Disinfectant Wipes that I bring with me. I do not wear a mask. That is my choice...When I go to the window to pay...I have a mask on. I have a bottle of purell hooked onto my bag. Let us be smart and make our own DECISIONS. These BANS are ILLEGAL.




They aren't illegal. The commerce clause of the constitution allows the federal government to restrict movement to prevent the spread of communicable diseases from other countries to ours or from state to state. The Secretary of Health and Human services is over this. The CDC is also given broad powers of quarantine. They can order you to stay put or wear a mask.

The individual states and local communities also have the power of quarantine and enforce local hygiene practices.

You may not like it, I may not like it, but it is well within the purview of the law on every level, be it Federal, State, Tribal, or Local.


Yes they have broad powers when it comes to health concerns, but those actions still have to be reasonable and relevant. This isn't a small pox outbreak. Consistency in enforcement also lends itself to the legitimacy of such orders. We keep talking about the need for a vaccine. Apparently a leftist cause is just that.

Since we're on the subject, I predict that we will see full stadiums Week 1. With Goodell's mea culpa, the NFL is guaranteed to be the social justice platform. Its been established that it is not a public health hazard to gather en masse for social justice causes. Any delay by Goodell and he's going to be accused of trying to deny them that platform.
Posted By: PastorMarc Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 02:39 PM
Well I have tickets for Washington September 27th I hope I get to Go smile
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 02:45 PM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: eotab
Sure they can be right about SOMETHING not my point. Same with Scientists who actually been right as much as they have been wrong.

My point is the Scientist should convey their opinions. But nobody including politicians should DICTATE to anyone what they HAVE TO DO. As stated I put on a mask when in company of some population. But if I'm seeing my sons and wish to give them a hug - that is my choice. If I feel safe with someone I know that is not coughing or sneezing and I don't wish to wear the mask...that is MY CHOICE.

They (politicians) or hypocrites. No funerals allowed but they used a situation and it became a spectacle made by them not about race but a directive for the Black votes to be made for Blue candidates not Red. But crowds were allowed. I have nothing against a memorial for Floyd. What I don't like is how come all of a sudden its ok and safe to congregate in a massive way that we saw but you have to eat outside of a restaurant or get arrested. You can not celebrate Birthdays, or Graduations. But you can protest.

Sorry for getting off topic. My point is Freedom. Sure they have a duty I guess to educate us regarding the Virus. But they have to leave it up to us to execute safety. For the most part I see it being done without a DICTATION. And the Scientists have been wrong with a lot. December and January it was noted as a virus that was not spread human to human. That was wrong.

Now we are finding out that spreading the virus from the surface is a rare occurrence. But we all have our freedom. When I go golfing I wipe down most of the surface with my Disinfectant Wipes that I bring with me. I do not wear a mask. That is my choice...When I go to the window to pay...I have a mask on. I have a bottle of purell hooked onto my bag. Let us be smart and make our own DECISIONS. These BANS are ILLEGAL.




They aren't illegal. The commerce clause of the constitution allows the federal government to restrict movement to prevent the spread of communicable diseases from other countries to ours or from state to state. The Secretary of Health and Human services is over this. The CDC is also given broad powers of quarantine. They can order you to stay put or wear a mask.

The individual states and local communities also have the power of quarantine and enforce local hygiene practices.

You may not like it, I may not like it, but it is well within the purview of the law on every level, be it Federal, State, Tribal, or Local.


Yes they have broad powers when it comes to health concerns, but those actions still have to be reasonable and relevant. This isn't a small pox outbreak. Consistency in enforcement also lends itself to the legitimacy of such orders. We keep talking about the need for a vaccine. Apparently a leftist cause is just that.

Since we're on the subject, I predict that we will see full stadiums Week 1. With Goodell's mea culpa, the NFL is guaranteed to be the social justice platform. Its been established that it is not a public health hazard to gather en masse for social justice causes. Any delay by Goodell and he's going to be accused of trying to deny them that platform.





Interesting take, but no, I don't think it works out that way.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 03:02 PM
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I would like to put this out there though, you clearly have your stance on the COVID stuff. I just want say that I appreciate that you've been decent and respectful towards those who maybe don't see it the same way as you.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 03:33 PM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I would like to put this out there though, you clearly have your stance on the COVID stuff. I just want say that I appreciate that you've been decent and respectful towards those who maybe don't see it the same way as you.



Thanks man. I have always tried to do that. It's how I was raised. I try not to turn the corner unless it seems people aren't treating me the same.

Disagreeing and being disrespectful are entirely different issues.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 06:47 PM
j/c...

Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 07:10 PM
So, I'm curious why it's okay, as of now, for colleges/universities to open dorms, classrooms, dining halls, etc.
Posted By: BWinCA Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 07:39 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
....nobody including politicians should DICTATE to anyone what they HAVE TO DO. These BANS are ILLEGAL.


Here is the result of your concern about freedom and illegalities. See the trend of the U.S. (freedom-lovers) vs. the other countries (strict ban). Sorry, but your viewpoint is killing people.

Coronavirus Stats
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 07:43 PM
When they start okaying crowds of tens of thousands, if not over 100,000 gathering in one place, at one time get back to me.

Of the colleges I've heard of reopening, they have very struct guidelines in place when they reopen.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 08:00 PM
My God man.........

I'm talking about 200 people per floor, LIVING together. 200 people, all going out to classes where they encounter hundreds, if not thousands of people every day.

200 people, sharing, per floor, 2 bathrooms - 1 for guys, 1 for women.

I promise, if I said 1+1=2, you'd twist it into something else.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 10:37 PM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
So, I'm curious why it's okay, as of now, for colleges/universities to open dorms, classrooms, dining halls, etc.




I don't agree with that, but states are under pressure too. If you aren't collecting tax money, it's hard to pay the bills.

ODOT workers and Highway Patrol officers don't just magically get paid...and I know you know that.


If you aren't collecting tax dollars, you aren't going to be able to maintain services.
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 11:19 PM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
So, I'm curious why it's okay, as of now, for colleges/universities to open dorms, classrooms, dining halls, etc.


it's not and they are not sure if they will. My son is going to be a freshman and they are uncertain if he will be allowed to go back in the fall.

His senior year of baseball was completely destroyed. His summer baseball team fell through and he is only going to T3 to practice a couple of times a week. To compound matters more, he has to walk-on this year and complete with 5th/6th year kids. It's a total mess.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 11:20 PM
My daughter just tested positive for Covid-19 and I very much understand your concern. I know she may not want to, but would she be able to commute to classes? Even better, can she take online classes this semester, even if there aren't as many available?
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 06/16/20 11:59 PM
Nope, and nope. First, she is required to live on campus, as long as the dorms are open. (ya know, like last semester when they closed the campus after about a month, but reimbursed us less that a fifth of housing and meals)

We live "too far away" for her to be considered a commuter student. 50 miles.

Can she take on-line classes? That's what she did last semester. Problem is, if the university isn't offering them, it's tough to take them,

As I've read from several schools - actually more than several - "we need heads in beds."

Follow the money.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Games without fans - 06/17/20 12:09 AM
That sucks!

I won't tell you what to do, but I know how I am feeling right now. Keep your baby safe.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 06/17/20 01:27 AM
Ask to have her quarantine dorm room made IT available for classes. We have too many rule makers handing down requirements that just get to be conflicting, as in personal safety, which I believe is the first and foremost driver for decision-making.

One public official, I think it was in Texas, actually said we must move forward and we all (not certain about the "in tribe" versus "you other guys") must expect to have some increases as the price to pay. They are having ongoing daily spikes in cases, admissions, and hospital treatments. These are explained away (Pandemic point dude Pence & Co.) as merely minor upticks where we tested more. They are increasing. And the other official part was the reassurance that was OK, because they had enough hospital beds and capacity to accommodate surges at this time.

I do not care how we rationalize or ideologically spin it. It is not OK to see these as numbers and suggest it is not important. We could control more of this with personal conduct, better than we are. This really upset me.

Be safe, Dawgs.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 06/17/20 03:26 PM
Good God man!

I was just pointing out the difference. Feel free to carry on though...
Posted By: slick Re: Games without fans - 06/17/20 09:15 PM
if your not gonna have fans then just cancel the season. This is getting ridiculous.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Games without fans - 06/18/20 05:20 AM
Originally Posted By: slick
if your not gonna have fans then just cancel the season. This is getting ridiculous.


As long as it is feasible to have games and televise them, the show WILL go on. There are waaaay too many billions of dollars at stake. Fans don't matter; only fan wallets matter.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Games without fans - 06/18/20 06:37 AM
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Originally Posted By: slick
if your not gonna have fans then just cancel the season. This is getting ridiculous.


As long as it is feasible to have games and televise them, the show WILL go on. There are waaaay too many billions of dollars at stake. Fans don't matter; only fan wallets matter.


They might even get additional revenue from their TV partners, because no live fans means that many more tuning in instead.
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: Games without fans - 06/18/20 11:08 AM
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Originally Posted By: slick
if your not gonna have fans then just cancel the season. This is getting ridiculous.


As long as it is feasible to have games and televise them, the show WILL go on. There are waaaay too many billions of dollars at stake. Fans don't matter; only fan wallets matter.


They might even get additional revenue from their TV partners, because no live fans means that many more tuning in instead.


While that is a 'devious' way to look at it, I would guess that you are probably right...
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/18/20 11:45 AM
The young are strong and this virus doesn't not bring them to the knees as it does the High Risk. So prayers out to your daughter to be strong and beat this virus. My Son got it early on and he beat it. Its a dangerous disease but thank goodness the young seem to recover. So again Prayers out to your daughter for a quick recovery. Btw once her fever breaks and gets back to normal for 3 days straight then 14 days of Isolation should take place before going into any public contact.

All the best
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 06/18/20 02:16 PM

I wish I was optimistic.

It would be terrible to not have games this year.

However, I don't think things are looking good.

In fact just the opposite. Cases are increasing. NFL players have already tested positive outside the facilities. Players and their families can not live in a bubble. Football is a contact sport.

It will not take much for a few players to be contagious and then infect others. Once a few go down quarantine procedures will reduce personnel and competition will be compromised.

I think the 2020 season is in jeopardy.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/18/20 04:02 PM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

I wish I was optimistic.

It would be terrible to not have games this year.

However, I don't think things are looking good.

In fact just the opposite. Cases are increasing. NFL players have already tested positive outside the facilities. Players and their families can not live in a bubble. Football is a contact sport.

It will not take much for a few players to be contagious and then infect others. Once a few go down quarantine procedures will reduce personnel and competition will be compromised.



I agree. If just 1 player on a team tests positive, the whole team needs to sit 2 weeks.

You can't play a season that way.

College and Pro sports are pretty much dead.....maybe for a long time, or forever.

Just speaking the truth.


Maybe pocket billiards will made some sort of comeback.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 06/18/20 04:42 PM
The sad reality of "if one team member gets it the entire team will have to be quarantined" makes the league's shiny optics of an actual season seem very unrealistic.

If they do try it, by mid season it will most likely look a lot more like the year they had replacement players than an NFL season.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 06/18/20 05:08 PM

I hope I am wrong. I really do.

But the only light I see is treatment and or vaccine and that will not happen till next year.

All personnel including all support staff would basically have to be quarantined from the start of camp. Then they would have to remain that way for the season. So much would have to be controlled. I just don't see it happening.

Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 06/18/20 06:05 PM
Te only difference in our opinions is a rather simple one. We agree on the opinion that it certainly won't work.

I do however see it happening. Owners, players and fans want to see football. Hell, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I am one of them. And one thing I've learned over the course of my lifetime is that when people want something bad enough, it never ceases to amaze me what they can convince themselves of no matter the odds against it.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Games without fans - 06/18/20 06:41 PM
They should look at other sports for examples of how they are restarting.
And how those sports are faring before making a decision to not have a season.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 06/18/20 06:50 PM

Football is so different than baseball and basketball from a control standpoint.

Way more people involved. Much harder to control.

Baseball just being played practices social distance.

Basketball way less players to monitor.

Football has a huge support staff. 53 plus regular roster 90+ in camp.

I know there is tremendous pressure to play. We all want that. But just from a practicality view so difficult.

I see it starting and maybe not finishing.
Posted By: 3rd_and_20 Re: Games without fans - 06/18/20 11:48 PM
j/c:

I don't care for Dr. Fauci much and care even less for CNN, but regardless:

Football may not happen at all this year, Fauci warns

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/18/us/football-happen-fauci-spt-trnd/index.html
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 02:21 AM
No football, fans or no fans, would be quite disappointing.

It seems like a tremendous challenge for all of the major sports to start back up with out issues arising. So many players have tested positive in college and a number in the NFL already.

Posted By: BuckDawg1946 Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 06:44 AM
Not trying to burst anyone’s bubble, but I’d say there’s a 20% chance, we get partially filled stadiums halfway though the season.

We need the NBA and MLB to return, mainly for a morale boost, but also to provide a template. The template for professional sports during a pandemic. This plague is going to be here for a while.

Someone has to be first through the wall.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 03:15 PM
Originally Posted By: BuckDawg1946
Not trying to burst anyone’s bubble, but I’d say there’s a 20% chance, we get partially filled stadiums halfway though the season.

We need the NBA and MLB to return, mainly for a morale boost, but also to provide a template. The template for professional sports during a pandemic. This plague is going to be here for a while.

Someone has to be first through the wall.


I don't believe you'll see partially filled stadiums. I think it's full capacity or not at all.

Season tickets holders would outraged. What do you tell season ticket holders that get stuck with the home game against the Raiders or Redskins while this group of season ticket holders get the MNF against the Ravens or the game against the Steelers?

Teams would be overwhelmed with angry STHs.

I do agree the NBA will be the template. Even more so than the MLB. Closer contact, more physical.
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 03:26 PM
Testing is accessible to all. It takes less than 2 hours to receive results.

The time to stop panicking should come now. America needs sports as well as work! The youth 40 and younger is not effected to the degree the over 60 crowd is. Yes Isolation must be made for those who have the virus. But recovery is fast and positive very few players have low immunity to have a big negative impact.

We know how to keep it under control. Areas must be wiped down regularly. Showers taken and possibly more than one as in take a shower break especially in the heat of training camp.

From what I understand and I could be wrong the virus does not travel well in HEAT.

Games will be on in September. Heck we might even have a Vaccine by then fingerscrossed
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 03:29 PM
A 100 game season is being set up for Baseball.

NBA is having a 22 team finish of the season (8 regular season games) and then playoffs.
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 03:37 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
Testing is accessible to all. It takes less than 2 hours to receive results.

The time to stop panicking should come now. America needs sports as well as work! The youth 40 and younger is not effected to the degree the over 60 crowd is. Yes Isolation must be made for those who have the virus. But recovery is fast and positive very few players have low immunity to have a big negative impact.

We know how to keep it under control. Areas must be wiped down regularly. Showers taken and possibly more than one as in take a shower break especially in the heat of training camp.

From what I understand and I could be wrong the virus does not travel well in HEAT.

Games will be on in September. Heck we might even have a Vaccine by then fingerscrossed


Players may be young and healthy... have you seen a photo of Andy Reid, Romeo Crennel, or many of the other overweight, over 60, coaches that work closely with these young players? How many coaches need to be thrown into the volcano to appease the fans?


Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 03:41 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
A 100 game season is being set up for Baseball.


Not so much. They can't even agree on if it will be 60 or 70 games. Owners have said they will not agree to 70 games.
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 03:43 PM
I guess we will see
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 03:54 PM

At this point is not just about game attendance.

Camp has a roster of 90+. Then add all the support personnel. After a point players go home. All the others go about their lives.

People are bound to come into contact. Then return to team facilities.

I understand that precautions will take place but it will not take much. There are 32 teams. That means a lot of folks have to be controlled.

A few contract and bingo. What happens if a team has 3 guys with the virus?

I am not trying to be Chicken Little. I want football bad. But the logistics don't add up.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 04:01 PM
In life I have found one thing to be a constant. If people want something bad enough, they'll convince themselves that terrible ideas that really don't add up make perfect sense. This is why there are so many bank robberies. wink
Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 05:37 PM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ml...-19/3222576001/


Phillies close Florida facility after five players, three staffers test positive for COVID-19
Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 05:46 PM
It is not possible to play national sports without putting players at risk. Airports, hotels, training facilities, practices, etc. All require social contact. You can't fly on a plane(one large tube) without contact.If one person with Covid is on the plane everyone is exposed.Six feet means nothing with you are in an enclosed space with air circulation. The only way to hold camp semi-safely would be to quarantine every player and member of the staff for 15 days and then house them all together without outside contact for the entire camp. Even then, how do you move a team across the country to play another team without exposure? How do you block, tackle, etc others without exposure? The NFL(and NCAA) season needs to be canceled until there is a viable vaccine. Or, stop pretending like you can do it safely and just admit the season is more important than the health of your players and their families.
Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 05:51 PM
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
Originally Posted By: eotab
Testing is accessible to all. It takes less than 2 hours to receive results.

The time to stop panicking should come now. America needs sports as well as work! The youth 40 and younger is not effected to the degree the over 60 crowd is. Yes Isolation must be made for those who have the virus. But recovery is fast and positive very few players have low immunity to have a big negative impact.

We know how to keep it under control. Areas must be wiped down regularly. Showers taken and possibly more than one as in take a shower break especially in the heat of training camp.

From what I understand and I could be wrong the virus does not travel well in HEAT.

Games will be on in September. Heck we might even have a Vaccine by then fingerscrossed


Players may be young and healthy... have you seen a photo of Andy Reid, Romeo Crennel, or many of the other overweight, over 60, coaches that work closely with these young players? How many coaches need to be thrown into the volcano to appease the fans?




That is true. Also, while most young healthy people come through Covid fine not all of them do and there is evidence that it adversely affects your lung function for a long time after you have "recovered" Just because you lived does not mean you are 100% right away. A player may survive but lose a couple of years off his career before he is 100% recovered.
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Games without fans - 06/19/20 11:15 PM
https://theathletic.com/1882572/2020/06/19/clemson-tigers-football-covid-19-positive-tests/
Earlier this week we learned that University of Texas football team tested 13 positive COVID-19 cases. Alabama has 8 positive COVID-19 cases. Auburn has 3 positive COVID-19 cases. And today we hear Clemson's team has 23 positive COVID-19 cases.

Southern college athletes getting hit hard.
Older coaches beware.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/20/20 09:33 AM
If we can't develop a vaccine, sports is over. There is no way to play the games safely and no way to keep fans safe. Those are the facts. Some people need to get their head out of the sand. Team sports are pretty much going to go away, never to be seen again.

It's a new era for human existence. It is what it is.
Posted By: runback Re: Games without fans - 06/20/20 10:40 AM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
If we can't develop a vaccine, sports is over. There is no way to play the games safely and no way to keep fans safe. Those are the facts. Some people need to get their head out of the sand. Team sports are pretty much going to go away, never to be seen again.

It's a new era for human existence. It is what it is.
you can get a vaccine, I am opting out. anything the govt tells me to do for my health I will consider not doing it or the opposite.
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/20/20 11:44 AM
They will try to create a bubble within the work environment.

Everyone from player, coach, to towel boy gets tested.

After that environment is set all must adhere strictly to the protocols set up. In golf if they get the virus and did follow the protocol they receive compensation for missing camp. If they did not and got the virus they will not receive anything.

Yes the odds are the bubble cannot sustain 100% negative testing results. The question will be once somebody does get the virus. In the environment they have created how many will also get the virus. If its contained to 10% or less that is not bad for around 200 involved. How many are players??? But if its something like 30% that is a big set back. And a new action should be made...

jmho
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Games without fans - 06/20/20 12:02 PM
Meanwhile in Europe soccer is back ... I'm fairly shocked that folks don't believe there is a way to play sport. Most sport isn't 100% safe to begin with ... Taking every possible precaution while having staff and players sign waivers would be as safe as you can get. I'm sure the players would sign. If there are older coaches who are concerned, 1 wear PPE and 2 coach from the safety of the media suites and press box.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/20/20 01:24 PM
I'd be shocked if players agreed to sign waivers. i just do not see that happening. Millionaires waiving their rights? Doubtful.

In other news...

Los Angeles Times
@latimes
Breaking: UCLA football players are demanding that a “third-party health official” be on hand for all football activities to see that protocols for COVID-19 are followed, saying they don't trust coach Chip Kelly’s program to act in their best interest

Los Angeles Times
@latimes
The players also demand that anonymous whistleblower protections are provided for athletes and staff to report violations; and that each player can make a decision about whether to return to Westwood without fear of losing his scholarship.

https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1274066668390502400
https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1274076918124437504
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Games without fans - 06/20/20 01:43 PM
There's a lot to unravel there. Looks like there are some trust issues going on at UCLA.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Games without fans - 06/20/20 05:54 PM
what a shock that Chip Kelly involved in some shenanigans

I would imagine that if there's no games played the players dont get payed anyting. Zip
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Games without fans - 06/20/20 06:46 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
what a shock that Chip Kelly involved in some shenanigans

I would imagine that if there's no games played the players dont get payed anyting. Zip


I’m so glad we dodged the Kelly bullet. The guy is not everything Oregon made him appear to be. He’s a slightly above average coach with an ego the size of a mountain.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 06/20/20 09:43 PM
Interesting close. Especially if some teams get snakebitten with spike numbers. Football is messier with lots of folks to clean up after, monitor, test, protect. Might not be able to finish as you said. SB if it happens may be won by the best bench or PS. Game status and any quarantines might be a chess match. Bye week or weeks might be crucial.

FWIW, I was watching TV late int early morning, and one sport I like to watch was on about 3 AM. It was AFL, Australian Football League, played on a round field. Insane amounts of running, collisions, heavy breathing, and little if any crowd. Thought of this thread. I don't really understand all of it any more than I do modern art or scoring figure skating and cricket. Real sports though. I do not know to what degree they are handling this or the specifics of their going about it. Brutal grind and contact playing it.
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: Games without fans - 06/20/20 11:21 PM
Originally Posted By: Bard Dawg
Australian Football League...Brutal grind and contact playing it..


Love the game. And note the lack of protective equipment...
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 06/21/20 05:34 PM
Me too!

I got bruised just watching it. Some real skills there!

A) Think their guys could play NFL?
B) Could NFL play their game?

I would say yes to both, but what a sport to watch. Highly recommended. Wear your mouthguard just to watch.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 06/21/20 06:10 PM
Originally Posted By: Bard Dawg
Me too!

I got bruised just watching it. Some real skills there!

A) Think their guys could play NFL?
B) Could NFL play their game?

I would say yes to both, but what a sport to watch. Highly recommended. Wear your mouthguard just to watch.


I'm still waiting to see the Browns fake a punt and let the Scottish Hammer carry the rock...
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 06/21/20 11:06 PM
I think we could fake it and get it. Love his leg! thumbsup
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: Games without fans - 06/22/20 12:52 AM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: Bard Dawg
Me too!

I got bruised just watching it. Some real skills there!

A) Think their guys could play NFL?
B) Could NFL play their game?

I would say yes to both, but what a sport to watch. Highly recommended. Wear your mouthguard just to watch.


I'm still waiting to see the Browns fake a punt and let the Scottish Hammer carry the rock...


I wonder if anybody would attempt to tackle him when wearing his kilt... rofl
Posted By: FATE Re: Games without fans - 06/22/20 01:18 AM
That's funny! rofl
Posted By: Brown to the Bone Re: Games without fans - 06/22/20 09:48 AM
"From what I understand and I could be wrong the virus does not travel well in HEAT.", TAB.

That isn't what the Dr are saying and I would point out the south where it is much hotter is witnessing a spike and that to me means it doesn't care about heat.

Can't ignore what we know at this point and this, this is ignoring what we KNOW.
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/22/20 03:03 PM
j/c...I know not a contact sport but I mentioned before what we have to go on is Golf as they made their comeback this past weekend as well as the prior weekend.

Nick Watney was tested positive for Corvid 19 - after feeling sick when finishing his Thursday round with 2 other golfers and Caddies.

So far none of them are showing signs of having the Virus. Including several other Golfers who had some contact with Watney. So yeah I know Golf is not a contact sport still there was/is a fear in WHAT IF's 1 becomes 30...

So far the result are good!

jmho
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 06/22/20 04:15 PM
See Brazil for how well it spreads in hot weather.
Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Games without fans - 06/23/20 05:13 AM
Originally Posted By: runback
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
If we can't develop a vaccine, sports is over. There is no way to play the games safely and no way to keep fans safe. Those are the facts. Some people need to get their head out of the sand. Team sports are pretty much going to go away, never to be seen again.

It's a new era for human existence. It is what it is.
you can get a vaccine, I am opting out. anything the govt tells me to do for my health I will consider not doing it or the opposite.


Ah, a flat-earther. Science is voodoo eh? *snicker* You can thank your lucky stars that a Polio vaccine was developed. I've seen what Polio did to its victims and I promise you wouldn't like it one tiny little bit. Over 120,000 Dead Americans and you fear the vaccine more? Alrighty then. I will GLADLY take the vaccine. Just like I got the smallpox and Polio vaccine when I was a kid, and just like I get a flu shot every year.
Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Games without fans - 06/23/20 05:16 AM
Originally Posted By: Brown to the Bone
"From what I understand and I could be wrong the virus does not travel well in HEAT.", TAB.

That isn't what the Dr are saying and I would point out the south where it is much hotter is witnessing a spike and that to me means it doesn't care about heat.

Can't ignore what we know at this point and this, this is ignoring what we KNOW.


Really? Then explain how Texas and Florida are hotspots right now... Huge rise in cases in both States in the dead of Summer. Arizona too. Most of the South is experiencing the same. Big rise in cases. Covid doesn't seem to know that it isn't supposed to spread in the summer heat.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Games without fans - 06/23/20 11:40 AM
I think you misunderstood what Bone was saying. He quoted another poster and then basically said the same thing you are. Not a big deal, but I just wanted to clear that up.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 06/23/20 11:59 AM
brownie rofl

I would pay to see it. He also probably tackles well. Love what this guy brings to the game!
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/23/20 01:56 PM
Originally Posted By: Brown to the Bone
"From what I understand and I could be wrong the virus does not travel well in HEAT.", TAB.

That isn't what the Dr are saying and I would point out the south where it is much hotter is witnessing a spike and that to me means it doesn't care about heat.

Can't ignore what we know at this point and this, this is ignoring what we KNOW.


Yeah that was me that said that not Bone and I stated clearly that I could be wrong. What I remember is early on in this virus, talking about March, I read or heard on the TV that is was able to spread BETTER in a cold air environment and I think that was referring to Hospitals who keep the air cold cause it usually halts the spread of germs and diseases. So I took that to mean that it would spread less in warmer weather...ergo my ASSumption. wink
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/24/20 07:03 PM
j/c...

Posted By: FATE Re: Games without fans - 06/24/20 08:44 PM
So what happens to all those season ticket holders??

Dumb-non-solution.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 06/24/20 09:26 PM
Originally Posted By: FATE
So what happens to all those season ticket holders??

Dumb-non-solution.



Maybe get moved to the box seats?
Posted By: Tulsa Re: Games without fans - 06/24/20 09:30 PM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: FATE
So what happens to all those season ticket holders??

Dumb-non-solution.



Maybe get moved to the box seats?


They'll get moved to the 500 section, one club level pass to the bathroom of their choice and a Jimmy Haslam autographed football.
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: Games without fans - 06/24/20 11:05 PM
Originally Posted By: Tulsa
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: FATE
So what happens to all those season ticket holders??

Dumb-non-solution.



Maybe get moved to the box seats?


They'll get moved to the 500 section, one club level pass to the bathroom of their choice and a Jimmy Haslam autographed football.


...I thought those were the "sponsors."
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 12:38 AM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: FATE
So what happens to all those season ticket holders??

Dumb-non-solution.







Maybe get moved to the box seats?



It isn't going to work.
Posted By: FATE Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 02:20 AM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: FATE
So what happens to all those season ticket holders??

Dumb-non-solution.



Maybe get moved to the box seats?

I'm assuming you mean Club Seats? Then move the Clubs to the 500s and the 500s out into the lake?

NOT going to work out.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 02:32 AM
Originally Posted By: FATE
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: FATE
So what happens to all those season ticket holders??

Dumb-non-solution.



Maybe get moved to the box seats?

I'm assuming you mean Club Seats? Then move the Clubs to the 500s and the 500s out into the lake?

NOT going to work out.



Exactly. There likely won't be fans anyway so the point is probably moot. I don't know what boxed seats are, I'll assume he means Clubs. We pay about 2x to nearly 4X more than what the folks in the first 8 rows pay (depending on location) .

This seems disastrous if fans are actually allowed back in the stadium.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 02:38 AM
Box seats are the luxury suites usually owned by businesses/rich people. They are catered sometimes. They come in different sizes but I guess around 20 seats per suite.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 02:43 AM
Suites.

Yeah, the folks in the first 6-8 rows definitely aren't getting in there, let alone Club Seats.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 09:24 AM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Suites.

Yeah, the folks in the first 6-8 rows definitely aren't getting in there, let alone Club Seats.



I have club seats. The seats are outside and between the upper deck and lower deck. A really nice view from there. You are close enough, but also have some height to gain perspective. You lose that if in the lower section.

The concourse is enclosed, so you have heat in the cold months and A/C when it hot. I am on the Lake side. A nice view of the lake, and more important, you get whatever sun might be out. It can get warm for Sept. games, but after that, you want all the sun has to give as it gets colder. Lot's of bars, maybe 8 restaurant choices, and TV's everywhere so if you have to go use a restroom or just want to go inside to warm up for a few minutes you still see the action.

If fans are allowed, which I doubt, no doubt we will still have to distance, so of the 8 regular season games I might be allowed to go to 1-2 games tops. Not sure how they would assign games, and they better not try to include the useless exhibition games. I am not traveling 600 miles to watch some useless game being played by people who probably won't even be on the team. I'd tell them to take those tickets and shove them up their....well, you know.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 11:14 AM
Yes, I did indeed mean Club Seats.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 01:07 PM
Posted By: FATE Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 01:29 PM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Yes, I did indeed mean Club Seats.


Can't do that... You would be asking the lower fans to pay 2x to 4x the ticket price and telling the fans with the longest tenure, who pay the highest ticket prices, to "take a hike" up the stairs.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 02:04 PM
Originally Posted By: FATE
[quote=DevilDawg2847]Yes, I did indeed mean Club Seats.


Can't do that... You would be asking the lower fans to pay 2x to 4x the ticket price and telling the fans with the longest tenure, who pay the highest ticket prices, to "take a hike" up the stairs.




Maybe I don't quite understand your comment. Club seats are more expensive than lower bowl seats, yard line by yard line because you are paying a club fee on top of the ticket price to have much better restrooms, air conditioning to meet the season, free programs, TV's everywhere, and generally better food options, but I might question the food options. There is a cheesesteak vendor in the lower concourse that is pretty darn good. I wish they had them in the club section.

Something I do miss, it was discontinued...it was run by Browns hospitality. You would get a menu a few days before the game, in our club locker room...the locker roomis private portal we can access to talk to people, get info, manage our seats if we want to transfer them to somebody...it was like a buffet line. One week it might be breakfast burritos with sausage gravy biscuits. The next game rosemary crusted prime rib with this, that, and the other.

It wasn't cheap, but it was good. My wife and I always looked forward to that. Now it is a B spot overcooked burger or Roccos meatballs.....the meatballs are actually very good. The pizza they serve is way better than your average stadium pizza slice, but I would rather have the burrito with gravy or crusted prime rib.

Now, we don't eat at the stadium all that much. Maybe a dog at halftime. We stop for a brunch somewhere...make reservations at the chop house, maybe the Flatiron in the flats, the West Side Market Café throws a nice platter and Bloody Mary at you.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 02:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Suites.

Yeah, the folks in the first 6-8 rows definitely aren't getting in there, let alone Club Seats.



I have club seats. The seats are outside and between the upper deck and lower deck. A really nice view from there. You are close enough, but also have some height to gain perspective. You lose that if in the lower section.

The concourse is enclosed, so you have heat in the cold months and A/C when it hot. I am on the Lake side. A nice view of the lake, and more important, you get whatever sun might be out. It can get warm for Sept. games, but after that, you want all the sun has to give as it gets colder. Lot's of bars, maybe 8 restaurant choices, and TV's everywhere so if you have to go use a restroom or just want to go inside to warm up for a few minutes you still see the action.

If fans are allowed, which I doubt, no doubt we will still have to distance, so of the 8 regular season games I might be allowed to go to 1-2 games tops. Not sure how they would assign games, and they better not try to include the useless exhibition games. I am not traveling 600 miles to watch some useless game being played by people who probably won't even be on the team. I'd tell them to take those tickets and shove them up their....well, you know.


Yes. I have Club Seats as well.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 03:53 PM
Hall of Fame Game cancelled.

Posted By: FATE Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 04:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: FATE
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Yes, I did indeed mean Club Seats.


Can't do that... You would be asking the lower fans to pay 2x to 4x the ticket price and telling the fans with the longest tenure, who pay the highest ticket prices, to "take a hike" up the stairs.


Maybe I don't quite understand your comment. Club seats are more expensive than lower bowl seats, yard line by yard line because you are paying a club fee on top of the ticket price to have much better restrooms, air conditioning to meet the season, free programs, TV's everywhere, and generally better food options, but I might question the food options. There is a cheesesteak vendor in the lower concourse that is pretty darn good. I wish they had them in the club section.

Something I do miss, it was discontinued...it was run by Browns hospitality. You would get a menu a few days before the game, in our club locker room...the locker roomis private portal we can access to talk to people, get info, manage our seats if we want to transfer them to somebody...it was like a buffet line. One week it might be breakfast burritos with sausage gravy biscuits. The next game rosemary crusted prime rib with this, that, and the other.

It wasn't cheap, but it was good. My wife and I always looked forward to that. Now it is a B spot overcooked burger or Roccos meatballs.....the meatballs are actually very good. The pizza they serve is way better than your average stadium pizza slice, but I would rather have the burrito with gravy or crusted prime rib.

Now, we don't eat at the stadium all that much. Maybe a dog at halftime. We stop for a brunch somewhere...make reservations at the chop house, maybe the Flatiron in the flats, the West Side Market Café throws a nice platter and Bloody Mary at you.

I didn't word it well...

You can't have the lower ticket holders move up to Club because you would have to make them pay the additional ticket expense (or lose a TON of money). Then relocating Club members to other cheaper seats - which they won't accept - would also cost a ton of money in refunds since you're moving them to cheaper seats.

It would be a bad charade of musical chairs. If you have to delete rows from the bottom, it's best to just pizz those people off and deal with the consequences, maybe figure out the best way to rotate games for people in the rest of the lowers. No sense in making everyone in the stadium hate you!

I love the Clubs, the food is what it is, not easy to make thousands of people happy in the short time span before the game begins. Rocco's pizza is about the best bang for your buck, hard to justify 15 bucks for a dry, overcooked burger. I'll stand in line for one of their drunken milkshakes though lol.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 04:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: FATE
[quote=DevilDawg2847]Yes, I did indeed mean Club Seats.


Can't do that... You would be asking the lower fans to pay 2x to 4x the ticket price and telling the fans with the longest tenure, who pay the highest ticket prices, to "take a hike" up the stairs.




Maybe I don't quite understand your comment. Club seats are more expensive than lower bowl seats, yard line by yard line because you are paying a club fee on top of the ticket price to have much better restrooms, air conditioning to meet the season, free programs, TV's everywhere, and generally better food options, but I might question the food options. There is a cheesesteak vendor in the lower concourse that is pretty darn good. I wish they had them in the club section.

Something I do miss, it was discontinued...it was run by Browns hospitality. You would get a menu a few days before the game, in our club locker room...the locker roomis private portal we can access to talk to people, get info, manage our seats if we want to transfer them to somebody...it was like a buffet line. One week it might be breakfast burritos with sausage gravy biscuits. The next game rosemary crusted prime rib with this, that, and the other.

It wasn't cheap, but it was good. My wife and I always looked forward to that. Now it is a B spot overcooked burger or Roccos meatballs.....the meatballs are actually very good. The pizza they serve is way better than your average stadium pizza slice, but I would rather have the burrito with gravy or crusted prime rib.

Now, we don't eat at the stadium all that much. Maybe a dog at halftime. We stop for a brunch somewhere...make reservations at the chop house, maybe the Flatiron in the flats, the West Side Market Café throws a nice platter and Bloody Mary at you.



You aren't interviewing for a new Game Day Best Friend by any chance are you?
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 04:29 PM
Originally Posted By: FATE
I love the Clubs, the food is what it is, not easy to make thousands of people happy in the short time span before the game begins. Rocco's pizza is about the best bang for your buck, hard to justify 15 bucks for a dry, overcooked burger. I'll stand in line for one of their drunken milkshakes though lol.


I really liked the lamb meatball from Rocco and Rosie's, but they discontinued them last season. thumbsdown

Jonathan Sawyer abruptly closed all of his restaurants in Cleveland. Rumor was he had some shady handling of the restaurant group's finances.

I wonder if this will mean a new restaurant/food stand will be coming to the Clubs to replace his Street Frites restaurant.

Don't sleep on the chicken satay at the Bloody Mary bar!
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 05:28 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



Just curious...how does that make it safer???

Actually what they need to do is have a serious social spacing for those who are HIGH RISK fans and have an area designated for them.

The younger fans should also practice caution but lets face it. High risk who catch the virus will most likely die.

don't know if that comes across to readers as its hard to describe what I mean in a message board without writing a multi page post....lol laugh
Posted By: Halfback32 Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 07:05 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



Just curious...how does that make it safer???

Actually what they need to do is have a serious social spacing for those who are HIGH RISK fans and have an area designated for them.

The younger fans should also practice caution but lets face it. High risk who catch the virus will most likely die.

don't know if that comes across to readers as its hard to describe what I mean in a message board without writing a multi page post....lol laugh


I doubt if it is so much "fan safety" they are worried about, closing off the first 8 rows will keep fans further from the players and stop things like the "Lambeau Leap" and other close contact issues. Player safety is the prime concern.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 07:29 PM
There aren't Clubs in the Club section?
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 08:09 PM
At the Browns stadium?

Yes, there are clubs in the club seats section.

South club is the 7-Up City Club and on the North side of the stadium it is the Lake Club.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Games without fans - 06/25/20 08:19 PM
Ok, thats good.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 06/26/20 02:54 PM

Until there is a vaccine or treatment all bets are off about how this will go.

Say you are a major league player looking at a 60 game schedule pro-rated pay. You make millions. You should have money saved. You can play next year. Why sacrifice your health and that of your family for 37% of your one year salary. Is that worth the risk?

Football. Unless players and all supporting staff live in a bubble after work, during, and before how can 32 teams insure a roster of 90+ people and all supporting staff from infection?

Once one gets infected then what?

If a team gets quarantined then what?

I wish this would all go away. But hoping for miracles is not a plan.



Posted By: jacksondawg Re: Games without fans - 06/26/20 05:24 PM
Chances are
The season ticket holder get a note double your price then you get a lottery ticket for where you seat.
Luxury seat get renewed
Average fan watch direct TV
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Games without fans - 06/26/20 06:11 PM
Originally Posted By: jacksondawg
Chances are
The season ticket holder get a note double your price then you get a lottery ticket for where you seat.
Luxury seat get renewed
Average fan watch direct TV


That could be another element.

No fans in stadium, means more folks watching from home. Fans of teams out of their viewing area will need access to Sunday Ticket, and if the bars are closed that makes it even more difficult to watch "your" team.

A lot of people cannot shell out the $300+ dollars for Sunday Ticket, or even want to have to change to DTV for it.

I know NFL.com has something, but are they live stream games or watch after?

This could be a perfect chance for NFL.com to do a streaming app with an ala carte pricing. I think they would get a lot more people willing to pay $79-$99 dollars to watch 1 team for the year than $300+ to still only bother watching their 1 team (Sunday Ticket).
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Games without fans - 06/26/20 06:13 PM
I hope they do something like that. I'm not switching to DirectTV.

If there is no other option, I'm fine going back to the old days and listen to the game on the radio stream.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Games without fans - 06/26/20 06:28 PM
I saw a stat that said 56% of MLB players will make less than $100K with the short season.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/26/20 06:30 PM
saywhat
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Games without fans - 06/26/20 07:46 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
I saw a stat that said 56% of MLB players will make less than $100K with the short season.


Poor things... how will they survive.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 06/26/20 08:56 PM
How do you balance out the schedule for records for playoffs? Limited to division? Everybody takes a game "off" the the total? More I thought, the more complicated this became. I hoped the Stoolers would get spanked.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/27/20 09:01 AM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: FATE
I love the Clubs, the food is what it is, not easy to make thousands of people happy in the short time span before the game begins. Rocco's pizza is about the best bang for your buck, hard to justify 15 bucks for a dry, overcooked burger. I'll stand in line for one of their drunken milkshakes though lol.


I really liked the lamb meatball from Rocco and Rosie's, but they discontinued them last season. thumbsdown

Jonathan Sawyer abruptly closed all of his restaurants in Cleveland. Rumor was he had some shady handling of the restaurant group's finances.

I wonder if this will mean a new restaurant/food stand will be coming to the Clubs to replace his Street Frites restaurant.

Don't sleep on the chicken satay at the Bloody Mary bar!



I forgot about sawyer going belly up. I don't eat fries very often so I look forward to who they put in the spot. Maybe that cheesesteak stand. The satay is a nice option!
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/27/20 12:12 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
I saw a stat that said 56% of MLB players will make less than $100K with the short season.


Is it possible that the Numbers is less than 100K per game???
Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Games without fans - 06/28/20 03:24 AM
Originally Posted By: Halfback32
Originally Posted By: eotab
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



Just curious...how does that make it safer???

Actually what they need to do is have a serious social spacing for those who are HIGH RISK fans and have an area designated for them.

The younger fans should also practice caution but lets face it. High risk who catch the virus will most likely die.

don't know if that comes across to readers as its hard to describe what I mean in a message board without writing a multi page post....lol laugh


I doubt if it is so much "fan safety" they are worried about, closing off the first 8 rows will keep fans further from the players and stop things like the "Lambeau Leap" and other close contact issues. Player safety is the prime concern.


Yeah, players will be really safe playing a contact sport with all of those body fluids flying around the field. Gathered together in locker rooms, on the team bus, flying to different locations all over the country. Staying in hotels. Eating in restaurants. lol. If they have a season then player safety is not a concern. The Lambeau Leap is the last thing they have to worry about. Watching half their coaching community gasping for breath in an ICU...that is a concern. How many aging coaches are there? Belichick is almost 70. How would that look? Have the season, Bill catches Covid and ends his career on a respirator. It is not possible to have an NFL or NCAA football season and keep players and especially coaches safe. It can't be done. So if they have a season, the safety of their coaches and players isn't a priority. Making money is.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/28/20 04:44 AM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I forgot about sawyer going belly up. I don't eat fries very often so I look forward to who they put in the spot. Maybe that cheesesteak stand. The satay is a nice option!


They had a pretty good Lake Erie perch sandwich and last year's new addition was a Nashville Hot chicken sandwich.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/28/20 09:31 AM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I forgot about sawyer going belly up. I don't eat fries very often so I look forward to who they put in the spot. Maybe that cheesesteak stand. The satay is a nice option!


They had a pretty good Lake Erie perch sandwich and last year's new addition was a Nashville Hot chicken sandwich.



Didn't know they had a perch sandwich. I would have tried that. As for hot chicken, I live 125 miles from Nashville. We have gone for weekends 4-5 times a year for the last 40 years or so. I was eating Nashville chicken before most people heard of it. I loved it, however, as I have gotten older the body changes. Let's just say it doesn't come out well. I have to take a pass on the super spicy foods. Those days are over. Has to be mild these days. It is what it is.

Like I said, that was probably my least liked place. My section is at the other end of the club. If I went to the other end it was to get a bowl of meatballs.

As stated before, I/we usually do some sort of brunch before the games then eat at Blue Point after the game. We both like Blue Point, so we usually don't eat much in the stadium. Maybe split a big dog at most. Maybe a bag of peanuts.
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: Games without fans - 06/28/20 01:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
... as I have gotten older the body changes. Let's just say it doesn't come out well. I have to take a pass on the super spicy foods. Those days are over.


Ain't that the truth... rofl
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 06/28/20 03:04 PM
Let's face it, the "7 empty rows" is about optics to the public. To make it "look like they care about safety". You have done a good job of describing the actuality of the situation. It's going to be a crap show.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Games without fans - 06/28/20 06:14 PM
It wasn't that long ago that a couple teams (not just us) were basically powerless to stop MRSA outbreaks in their locker rooms. We had our issues that I'm sure all are aware, but the TB Bucs also had a well-publicized struggle to keep their players safe.

Now try to apply that failure to a virus that can be spread through the air via breathing...

Not pretty.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Games without fans - 06/29/20 12:33 PM
I still say the only way it would work is complete isolation of teams and staff one camp begins. No outside contact,
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/29/20 02:01 PM
Originally Posted By: FloridaFan
I still say the only way it would work is complete isolation of teams and staff one camp begins. No outside contact,


And that isn't realistic, nor would it really work. You would still need delivery drivers bringing in supplies to feed the team and staff. Then, what about travel?

Nothing is going to work and why there won't be a season. The thread needs to be titled games without players and coaches.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Games without fans - 06/29/20 02:48 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: FloridaFan
I still say the only way it would work is complete isolation of teams and staff one camp begins. No outside contact,


And that isn't realistic, nor would it really work. You would still need delivery drivers bringing in supplies to feed the team and staff. Then, what about travel?

Nothing is going to work and why there won't be a season. The thread needs to be titled games without players and coaches.



Not that I disagree that it is unrealistic, but really, delivery is easy. We get deliveries here all day everyday, and I never see the drivers and seldom interact with the team that unloads them. It could be done.

Travel? Chartered jets for the season?

We are talking about a league with a lot of money. I think they could overcome the logistical hurdles, it's the human element of players being away from family, especially through the holidays that would become the hold up.
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/29/20 03:25 PM
j/c...Iv'e been looking at Pro Golf as a micro sample to look at - hey its all we got.

Several Caddies tested positive for the virus.. so far the players with those caddies have not test positive and they are the closest to them for several hours and most without facemasks. On pro 3 pro golfers have tested positive. Nick Watney, Cameron Champ and Denny McCarthy. No common denominator between them. The caddies who did catch the virus I'm guessing there was as a few of them were close. A couple of players dropped out of action for precautionary reasons so not to infect anyone in case they are carriers. So far no symptoms but they were taken care of by dropping out for the good of others. Everyone is being tested and often. I think that is the key.

The key for football is to find out before there is contact with others. A perfect bubble will not happen but there are not many Diabetics and heart disease individuals playing this game.

jmho
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Games without fans - 06/29/20 03:45 PM
Originally Posted By: eotab
The key for football is to find out before there is contact with others. A perfect bubble will not happen but there are not many Diabetics and heart disease individuals playing this game.

jmho


No but there’s a bunch of coaches that fit that description.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Games without fans - 06/29/20 03:48 PM
New sideline coaches setup. wink




Football in 2020
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/29/20 07:24 PM
j/c...

Posted By: FATE Re: Games without fans - 06/29/20 08:17 PM
That's a move that would seem to make sense...
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/29/20 08:40 PM
I think you'll see many teams adopt this policy.
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 12:25 AM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Let's face it, the "7 empty rows" is about optics to the public. To make it "look like they care about safety". You have done a good job of describing the actuality of the situation. It's going to be a crap show.


They could pay me to take tix, and you still wouldn't catch me anywhere near that place. Not yet. Not until my common-sense brain tells me it's safe.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 09:39 AM
Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Let's face it, the "7 empty rows" is about optics to the public. To make it "look like they care about safety". You have done a good job of describing the actuality of the situation. It's going to be a crap show.


They could pay me to take tix, and you still wouldn't catch me anywhere near that place. Not yet. Not until my common-sense brain tells me it's safe.



I agree. Think about all the things you have to touch....escalator rails are nasty even without a deadly virus on the loose. Go to take a whizz, you are standing 1.5 feet from some other dude on each side, no partitions. People flush. Every time there is a plume that goes in to the air. You breath in urine and stool samples. Parasite eggs floating around. The entire restroom is in a plume of who knows what, and that is in good times.

It's nasty even without these cooties.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 11:20 AM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Let's face it, the "7 empty rows" is about optics to the public. To make it "look like they care about safety". You have done a good job of describing the actuality of the situation. It's going to be a crap show.


They could pay me to take tix, and you still wouldn't catch me anywhere near that place. Not yet. Not until my common-sense brain tells me it's safe.



I agree. Think about all the things you have to touch....escalator rails are nasty even without a deadly virus on the loose. Go to take a whizz, you are standing 1.5 feet from some other dude on each side, no partitions. People flush. Every time there is a plume that goes in to the air. You breath in urine and stool samples. Parasite eggs floating around. The entire restroom is in a plume of who knows what, and that is in good times.

It's nasty even without these cooties.



Imagine what it would be like if we still had the old Cleveland Municipal bathrooms.... sick
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 12:18 PM
Well there was no flushing or plume's to deal with then.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 12:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

I agree. Think about all the things you have to touch....escalator rails are nasty even without a deadly virus on the loose. Go to take a whizz, you are standing 1.5 feet from some other dude on each side, no partitions. People flush. Every time there is a plume that goes in to the air. You breath in urine and stool samples. Parasite eggs floating around. The entire restroom is in a plume of who knows what, and that is in good times.

It's nasty even without these cooties.


This could be in an advertisement for off-grid living and peeing behind a tree. smile
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 01:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Let's face it, the "7 empty rows" is about optics to the public. To make it "look like they care about safety". You have done a good job of describing the actuality of the situation. It's going to be a crap show.


They could pay me to take tix, and you still wouldn't catch me anywhere near that place. Not yet. Not until my common-sense brain tells me it's safe.



I agree. Think about all the things you have to touch....escalator rails are nasty even without a deadly virus on the loose. Go to take a whizz, you are standing 1.5 feet from some other dude on each side, no partitions. People flush. Every time there is a plume that goes in to the air. You breath in urine and stool samples. Parasite eggs floating around. The entire restroom is in a plume of who knows what, and that is in good times.

It's nasty even without these cooties.


Thank you for ruining all sporting events forever.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 03:02 PM
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 03:40 PM
Its the first step to figuring out if ANY fans will be allowed. They first have to narrow down the possible attendees. Then they can re-assign seating to follow SD guidelines and other stadium amenities.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 04:16 PM
Yep. If 50% of STH opt out, that helps the NFL manage seating without dictating which fans will get to go to each game.
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 05:14 PM
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
Originally Posted By: eotab
The key for football is to find out before there is contact with others. A perfect bubble will not happen but there are not many Diabetics and heart disease individuals playing this game.

jmho


No but there’s a bunch of coaches that fit that description.


Actually not as many as those of that age. How many have heart disease? How many have diabetes.

But of course if they are over 60 their risk is higher.
But the worry here is contact sport. They can coach without contact....they can coach with social distancing. They can coach with a mask on. They should have regular stoppage of practice and all then washing hands and face with disinfectant soap....then back to action. This includes players coaches and all those in attendance. With 90 players plus possibly 100 coaches and attendees - Individual drinking - and still I'm sure there will be those who will test positive as we cannot control their personal lives. Those with kids will have a higher risk of catching the virus as history tells us kids are the biggest carriers and spread of the flu so will it be with the Covid 19 virus. Hopefully around mid season a vaccine will finally be in the fold. Things will change after we experience that. This is not as difficult as some flu's in finding a vaccine. Of what I know there are at least 7 vaccines being tested with our protocol to become official. One I've heard is very close. First will be the high risk people. Second will be first responders and possibly those in contact sports will get theirs with that grouping. Within 6 months the entire country can become vaccinated and just like Polio this disease will be GONE...thank goodness.

jmho and vision
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 05:37 PM

Tretter NFLPA president is starting to ring the bell about players risk and their safety.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/06...yer-safety.html

His comments are an early indication there could be problems ahead.

Vaccine by all indicators is most likely in the first quarter of 2021. End of this year does not look good.

I could see players who are at increased risk levels or will be exposed to family members who are; may well opt out for this season.

I would understand that position.

So, every team may have a number of players who decide the risk is not worth it.

This could easily mean that players outside of the 53 roster slots today. May be inside the 53 by the start of the season. Team depth could be huge.

There will be plenty especially those who are hungry that will be willing to take the risk for the money.

The rest of 2020 will be historical. Lots of things will go down.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 06:04 PM
j/c...

Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 07:01 PM
j/c...

Posted By: columbusdawg Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 10:11 PM
I got a survey today from the Browns asking questions that seemed to be as if they were testing the waters for offering something like this. I hope they do as I'll be opting out.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 10:14 PM
It won't be long before all NFL teams offer this. It'll be PR not to. I'll be opting out as well.

It's doubtful any fans will be allowed in anyway. I'm still not convinced there will be a season.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Games without fans - 06/30/20 11:03 PM
I don’t think there will be a season at this point.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 07/01/20 01:14 AM
Received the survey this evening myself and just completed it.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/01/20 08:40 AM
Originally Posted By: columbusdawg
I got a survey today from the Browns asking questions that seemed to be as if they were testing the waters for offering something like this. I hope they do as I'll be opting out.



Unless something drastic happens, I am not going to any games
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Games without fans - 07/01/20 11:19 AM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: columbusdawg
I got a survey today from the Browns asking questions that seemed to be as if they were testing the waters for offering something like this. I hope they do as I'll be opting out.



Unless something drastic happens, I am not going to any games


Drastic like, there is an asteroid heading for Earth and we are all going to blow up on November 3rd anyway? wink
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/01/20 11:30 AM
Originally Posted By: FloridaFan
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: columbusdawg
I got a survey today from the Browns asking questions that seemed to be as if they were testing the waters for offering something like this. I hope they do as I'll be opting out.



Unless something drastic happens, I am not going to any games


Drasti c like, there is an asteroid heading for Earth and we are all going to blow up on November 3rd anyway? wink


Hadn't considered that
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/01/20 05:03 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Let's face it, the "7 empty rows" is about optics to the public. To make it "look like they care about safety". You have done a good job of describing the actuality of the situation. It's going to be a crap show.


They could pay me to take tix, and you still wouldn't catch me anywhere near that place. Not yet. Not until my common-sense brain tells me it's safe.



I agree. Think about all the things you have to touch....escalator rails are nasty even without a deadly virus on the loose. Go to take a whizz, you are standing 1.5 feet from some other dude on each side, no partitions. People flush. Every time there is a plume that goes in to the air. You breath in urine and stool samples. Parasite eggs floating around. The entire restroom is in a plume of who knows what, and that is in good times.

It's nasty even without these cooties.


Thank you for ruining all sporting events forever.




Not trying to ruin things. Just giving you something to think about. Toilet plume is real. Add in maybe 25-30 urinals and 15 heads, you have a lot of nasty in that air.

Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 07/01/20 05:15 PM
Peen....did you get your survey from the Browns on the upcoming season and fans in attendance?
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/01/20 05:17 PM
[quote=Milk Man]Peen....did you get your survey from the



Yes, I pulled it up around 3:30 this morning and filled it out.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Games without fans - 07/01/20 05:34 PM
I'm watching Premier League soccer without fans and they are piping in fan noise. The fan noise helps a lot.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/01/20 05:43 PM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
I'm watching Premier League soccer without fans and they are piping in fan noise. The fan noise helps a lot.



I might be watching the same thing you are right now. I am not really watching, it's on....2 teams Bol and Cag, whoever they are. I watched a Korean baseball game this morning. They had fan background noise. It was a good baseball game.
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Games without fans - 07/01/20 07:24 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: columbusdawg
I got a survey today from the Browns asking questions that seemed to be as if they were testing the waters for offering something like this. I hope they do as I'll be opting out.



Unless something drastic happens, I am not going to any games


Me either buddy. I check most of the boxes for those at risk, and I would like to be around when we do finally win a Super Bowl. I don't sit around in my house 7 days a week now, BUT I do avoid crowds, I wear my mask, I carry hand sanitizer with me along with a baggie full of clorox wipes. Everybody knows I am crazy, but I am not NUTS.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Games without fans - 07/01/20 08:09 PM
J/C

To bad many states just opened too early. There was a legitimate chance for this season to happen. But now with a surge of the virus. I don’t see it happening at all this year. No players no fans. Sad.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/01/20 08:48 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
J/C

To bad many states just opened too early. There was a legitimate chance for this season to happen. But now with a surge of the virus. I don’t see it happening at all this year. No players no fans. Sad.




I am not sure we opened too soon, but many people felt that opening felt like all was good and all back to the old normal.

It's a new normal. We have to get back to work and being productive, but we can't be stupid. Even if we closed down another 3 months this would still be the same. Us humans have to learn the hard way.


Some people just don't get the severity of what we face. We can be relatively safe if smart, but you can't just go out and start hanging out like nothing is wrong. It's why we are seeing surge. Time to get smart. This isn't going away any time soon, if ever.

Mask up. Limit contact. Come on, get with the program. It is what it is.


We can go out some if smart, but the days of sitting shoulder to shoulder at the bar or beach are over for a while. Show some respect. You might be able to survive it, the person a seat or two down might not.

I think most people are basically good and would he horrified if they somehow found out their actions caused the death of another person. I really believe that.

We have to protect each other. No?
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Games without fans - 07/01/20 10:25 PM
Posted By: Squires Re: Games without fans - 07/02/20 12:12 AM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847


Imagine what it would be like if we still had the old Cleveland Municipal bathrooms.... sick


The Denver coliseum has bathrooms like that.
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 07/02/20 01:05 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Peen....did you get your survey from the Browns on the upcoming season and fans in attendance?


One thing we know within this pandemic is things change so fast...what is sound or dangerous now will be different in September.

I'm thinking 50% capacity for fans...that means spacing can be achieved. Family of 4....ok they can sit close together but the next group will be several seats away. Each game for season ticket holders will be via lottery to get to attend.

jmho If a vaccine is found...OPEN up to all! I think when you get a vaccine you should get a card (like a SSS Card) and only those vaccinated can attend.

Posted By: FATE Re: Games without fans - 07/02/20 04:55 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
J/C

To bad many states just opened too early. There was a legitimate chance for this season to happen. But now with a surge of the virus. I don’t see it happening at all this year. No players no fans. Sad.

I don't think that's accurate in the sense that it assumes that the virus would just be magically eradicated if we all stayed closed longer. Covid is a different animal and it's hard to predict the "woulda-couldas" while we're in the middle of it. Most of the surges are in the category of stupid people doing stupid things. JMO...
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 07/02/20 05:10 PM
So the fact that many states reopened while cases were "still increasing" instead of following CDC guidelines has nothing to do with it?
Posted By: FATE Re: Games without fans - 07/02/20 05:31 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
So the fact that many states reopened while cases were "still increasing" instead of following CDC guidelines has nothing to do with it?

Nope. You're reversing the argument again. I'm simply saying that we have no idea if there was some pie-in-the-sky magical date that we could have met where the world would just return to normal afterwords.

Assuming that we could have just simply stayed closed longer and the sports world, fans at games, etc, etc, would return to normal has no basis steeped in fact. It will be a long, long time before we can look back at this thing and use real facts to predict a future response.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 07/02/20 05:41 PM
We could have used the facts to hand to have made better decisions as things reopened as well. The fact we didn't leads me to believe we very well may not in the future. When you ignored the fact at hand to begin with, I have no faith we will use them later.
Posted By: FATE Re: Games without fans - 07/02/20 05:51 PM
No doubt. Humans do stupid things and like to think they're above it all, collectively as well as individually. It's just my opinion that most of the spread is because of individuals making stupid decisions, thus, "To bad many states just opened too early. There was a legitimate chance for this season to happen." seems pretty presumptuous to me.

Look at the alarming rate of NBA players that have tested positive - these are mostly individuals with the ways and means to avoid most of the risks involved in "everyday life" that average citizens face. They're not playing their sport, so you can't blame that for their exposure. Do states reopening have anything to do with their infection rates? Maybe - but not much.

This virus and the rate of spread is more a case of "play stupid games - win stupid prizes". Again, just my opinion. wink
Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain Re: Games without fans - 07/03/20 02:34 PM
j/c

After completing the survey, I traded emails with my ST rep. I spelled out that I have no intention of attending games, but I don't want to lose my seats. Here was her response;

"Thank you for filling out the survey! We actually already have it in our terms and conditions that should “An Act of God” scenario occur (pandemics included), and you do not feel comfortable attending games, you reserve the right to suspend your seats for that season and be credited back for any payments you’ve made. From there you will have the choice to roll over the credit for the following season or receive a full refund.

We will have more info in the next 2-3 weeks but thank you for letting me know where you stand at this point!"
Posted By: columbusdawg Re: Games without fans - 07/03/20 08:58 PM
Great to know. Thanks!
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/04/20 01:39 PM
Originally Posted By: columbusdawg
Great to know. Thanks!




It is. I am going to miss not seeing you this year. I am not going to games.


What I probably will do a few times is drive up to Cleveland if we are playing games, hit a restaurant or two and watch the game from my hotel room or some safe sports bar. I like making that 600 mile trip, as crazy as it sounds. Been doing it a long time. It's what I do.


Maybe if you feel like it, you can do the same, we can meet up and at least we have some sort of normal going on. I am going to miss seeing some of you more than actually going to the game, and I love going to games.

I have been going up for most games for 15 years now as a season ticket holder. 3-4 games a year for many years before that, just buying game tickets.

Yep, I am going to miss that more. Brian, Paul, Billy, Jan, Gretchen, Stanley, Ed, Melinda, Susan, Mark, John, and many more, you helped paint my life. Thank-you. I Love You.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Games without fans - 07/04/20 01:59 PM
This is sad. But, I think you guys are making the right decision. It's still sad that y'all will not be able to get together, though.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/04/20 02:34 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
This is sad. But, I think you guys are making the right decision. It's still sad that y'all will not be able to get together, though.



It is sad, and we are making the right decision.

You have to protect you and yours first, then those around you.

If all of this goes away in a few weeks, great, but I don't think it is. It seems to be escalating.

All of the people I mentioned are people on this board or another board I visit, and that is just a quick sample of names. Once you know people, they are no longer Columbus, GM Saint,Diesel, Zombo, Hooper, Blitz, ImBrown, Hoorta, Ateners, Ice, DawgyLama, Brownsbabe, Rich4Eagle, Pitdawg, Shotty, Sperk, Arch, jfanant, overtoad, crazy otto ,Knoxdawg, DP John, Shep, Purp, Dr. Flotsam. Credit to Dr. Flotsam........the best board name ever....Conn, Corpy, Nursedawg, Fate . They are all real people. And I am missing a lot of names.

We might not be besties of besties, but all of us are friends, at least on gameday. We all have a bond, the Browns.


I will miss that. It was always enjoyable meeting the people behind the board names.
Posted By: eotab Re: Games without fans - 07/07/20 12:05 PM
I think its crazy out there...many yutes just feel invincible and after being cooped up for so long they just disregard the precautions. Cases going crazy now but deaths are not following suit thank goodness.

Read some where that some young adults are throwing Covid 19 parties and they are taking bets on who will catch the virus first...smh
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Games without fans - 07/07/20 12:36 PM
I read something last night about how researchers are finding that immunity may not be a lasting effect, so we might as well get used to this things, as it's going to be in the annual flu cycle for a long time, even with a vaccine.
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Games without fans - 07/07/20 01:17 PM
Originally Posted By: FloridaFan
I read something last night about how researchers are finding that immunity may not be a lasting effect, so we might as well get used to this things, as it's going to be in the annual flu cycle for a long time, even with a vaccine.


Yes. They’re thinking the antibodies post illness only last 2 to 4 months max. There will be no herd immunity.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Games without fans - 07/09/20 05:34 PM
Browns communicate with season ticket members about 2020 season

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-communicate-with-season-ticket-members-about-2020-season

The Browns on Thursday communicated important updates to their loyal base of season ticket members and provided preliminary expectations for the upcoming season.

While plans in most capacities remain fluid, one thing is certain: This upcoming season will look very different because of the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. The Browns remain in regular communication with state and local authorities, health departments and other medical experts as they continue to devise their operational plans for the 2020 season.

Though the Browns and the NFL remain confident games will be played, the likelihood of them occurring in full stadiums is very low. There will also be new policies and requirements for fans to follow when they arrive at games, such as physical distancing requirements, mandated facial coverings for everyone in the stadium, robust cleaning and disinfecting protocols, and changes to stadium layout, seat locations and fan circulation.

Browns season ticket members have been offered the opportunity to opt out of purchasing season tickets for the 2020 season while still retaining their seat location and priority for the 2021 season, along with certain season ticket member benefits. Even if the members do not opt out, the Browns can't currently guarantee they will receive tickets to a specific number of games or for particular seat locations during the 2020 season.

Here is the letter Browns season ticket holders received Thursday:

We hope this email finds you and your family safe and healthy. We appreciate your continued support and loyalty to the Browns as a general or club seat season ticket member during these unprecedented past several months. We are energized by your passion and are diligently preparing to open the 2020 season with health and safety as our highest priority. We have been, and will remain, in regular communication with our state and local authorities, health departments and other medical experts, as well as the NFL, and are committed to following their guidance for our operations this season.

We are still in the process of developing our fan protocols and stadium operations plan for the 2020 season, but it is clear that the fan experience will be different. We have received preliminary guidance from the NFL (developed in conjunction with the CDC and national medical experts) regarding some of the policies and requirements that will likely be in place for NFL gamedays this season. These will include physical distancing requirements, mandated facial coverings for everyone in the stadium, robust cleaning and disinfecting protocols, and changes to stadium layout, seat locations and fan circulation. We will communicate more details around the stadium protocols and plan once finalized and approved. Please understand that these guidelines are fluid and may continue to evolve with the circumstances surrounding COVID-19 over the coming weeks and months.

As we are sure you can appreciate, we need to be flexible during this unique time, and while we remain confident that games will be played at FirstEnergy Stadium this year, the likelihood of being able to play in front of a full stadium is low at this time. It is also very possible that the preseason schedule will be shortened, and capacity allowances or game schedules may also change during the course of the season. We are planning for a number of scenarios and will share more information when it becomes available.


As we plan for the return of football this fall, given the current uncertainties, we are offering each season ticket member the opportunity to opt out of purchasing season tickets for the 2020 season and to still retain their seat location and priority for the 2021 season, along with certain season ticket member benefits this season (including merchandise discounts, mobile RedZone and access to membership services representatives). Any amounts paid to date for the 2020 season will be automatically applied to the 2021 season unless you indicate that you would prefer to receive a refund. Additionally, for season ticket members who are also PSL holders, all PSL rights and obligations will remain for 2021. If you would like to opt out of purchasing your season tickets for the 2020 season, you can do so by clicking here or the button below and we will be excited to see you in 2021. Please note that even if you do not opt out at this time, we are currently unable to guarantee that any fan will receive tickets to a specific number of games or for particular seat locations during the 2020 season.

We encourage you to call your Membership Services Representative at 440-891-5050 with any questions regarding your account, and sincerely appreciate your patience and support throughout this process. We will be in touch soon with further information, and we wish you all the best.
Posted By: columbusdawg Re: Games without fans - 07/09/20 05:57 PM
Just opted out of mine.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 07/09/20 05:59 PM
I opted out as well.
Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain Re: Games without fans - 07/09/20 07:44 PM
Likewise. I won't get to see my new seats til 2021. But that's OK.
Posted By: SaintDawg Re: Games without fans - 07/09/20 08:25 PM
Most likely opting out too.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/09/20 08:57 PM
Just milling it over for a while. I am going to opt out. Just deciding on if I want a credit for next season or just take a refund since the tickets are paid in full at this point.

I am leaning for a refund. Nothing says I am going to be alive next year. What did you guys do?

I split the payment on my Marriott card back in February......I got my points towards rooms. Take my refund, I got my points, then do it again next year. Sounds like a good deal to me. I am up to about 20 nights at a normal Courtyard property like I stay at in Cleveland. At the usual in Nashville, it is about 1/2 higher. Courtyards meet all of my comfort requirements.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 07/09/20 09:04 PM
I am not a season ticket holder. So maybe my opinion doesn't count.

But you are right that none of us know if we'll be alive next season. I've also never been comfortable with someone else playing with my money when I could have that money drawing interest or working for me. From a strictly business standpoint allowing someone else to tie up my assets has never been something I have condoned.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 07/09/20 09:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I am leaning for a refund. Nothing says I am going to be alive next year. What did you guys do?


Peen, I opted for rolling over the money to pay for tickets next year. The money was already spent and now I look at it as next season is already paid for. This option also allows you to retain your seat location.

If you opt for the refund it looks like you do not retain your current seats for next season nor your priority status for upgrading/relocating.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/09/20 09:46 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I am not a season ticket holder. So maybe my opinion doesn't count.

But you are right that none of us know if we'll be alive next season. I've also never been comfortable with someone else playing with my money when I could have that money drawing interest or working for me. From a strictly business standpoint allowing someone else to tie up my assets has never been something I have condoned.



Pit, sometimes you are an ass....so am I. Maybe that is why I like you most of the time and slap you once in a while.

I am not all that worried about $3500. It's not going to do all that much in the way of interest or investments over 1 year. I am more like a SOB. It's like, why should I pay for tickets someone else gets to use and I don't?


LOL. OK, not totally, but still, it's in the back of the head.

Many years ago you met my youngest son Chris. He is the Browns fan. My other children don't care. He gets my PSL's But dog gone it, he needs to pay. I have done a lot of paying over the years. He makes over $80K a year....he has a good solid job, he can pay. He's going to get a nice 3 way split once I and my wife pass.

You want the tickets, pay for them.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Games without fans - 07/09/20 09:58 PM
Quote:
Many years ago you met my youngest son Chris. He is the Browns fan. My other children don't care. He gets my PSL's But dog gone it, he needs to pay. I have done a lot of paying over the years. He makes over $80K a year....he has a good solid job, he can pay. He's going to get a nice 3 way split once I and my wife pass.


Pay for what you get? Nonsense. That is not the new American way.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/09/20 09:59 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I am leaning for a refund. Nothing says I am going to be alive next year. What did you guys do?


Peen, I opted for rolling over the money to pay for tickets next year. The money was already spent and now I look at it as next season is already paid for. This option also allows you to retain your seat location.

If you opt for the refund it looks like you do not retain your current seats for next season nor your priority status for upgrading/relocating.





Hmmmmm, I didn't see that. I'll look closer. Maybe make a call to clarify.

I plan on passing as a Browns season ticket holder. I don't want to give that away. Passing as a Browns season ticket holder is worth more than $3500. I don't want to sound like bragging, nor minimize $3500, but that isn't all that much money in my world. I am not some super wealthy guy by any means, but we are ok...$3500....it's just a thing.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Games without fans - 07/10/20 01:37 AM
Yeah, contact your ticket rep, but that was my impression. I could be mistaken.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/10/20 08:33 AM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Yeah, contact your ticket rep, but that was my impression. I could be mistaken.



I looked closely this morning. There is nothing in there about losing status, but I went ahead and rolled it over to next year.
That gives me reason to stick around for a while longer!

This way, next season will feel like a free season.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 07/10/20 05:24 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
Many years ago you met my youngest son Chris. He is the Browns fan. My other children don't care. He gets my PSL's But dog gone it, he needs to pay. I have done a lot of paying over the years. He makes over $80K a year....he has a good solid job, he can pay. He's going to get a nice 3 way split once I and my wife pass.


Pay for what you get? Nonsense. That is not the new American way.


rofl

You just can't let it go can you?
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Games without fans - 07/10/20 11:47 PM
Nope. Some of us are sick of working and paying for those of you who do nothing and still complain about how awful this country is.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Games without fans - 07/11/20 12:12 AM
J/C

Any current updates from the Browns? I’ve seen other teams state that they’ll allow 25% capacity or whatever
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/11/20 07:23 AM
I haven't seen anything. 25% sounds about right
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 07/11/20 04:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Nope. Some of us are sick of working and paying for those of you who do nothing and still complain about how awful this country is.


You must be talking about those damned corporations again.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Games without fans - 07/11/20 05:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I haven't seen anything. 25% sounds about right
i thought so too
Posted By: 3rd_and_20 Re: Games without fans - 07/16/20 09:51 PM
j/c:

72 NFL players have tested positive for COVID-19

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-...ve-for-covid-19

P.S. Will it be games without fans or fans without games?
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Games without fans - 07/16/20 10:48 PM
From what I am hearing it may be no fans and no games frown
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 07/16/20 11:00 PM
Possibly as it should be. Yet colleges and U's are hammering for dorm life.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Games without fans - 07/16/20 11:05 PM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Possibly as it should be. Yet colleges and U's are hammering for dorm life.



Which colleges?
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 07/16/20 11:06 PM
Pretty much all of them at this time.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Games without fans - 07/16/20 11:10 PM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Pretty much all of them at this time.


The Cal State system, which has more students than any other state university system, will be online only in the fall. Same with the UC system. Are you referring only to schools in Ohio?
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 07/16/20 11:16 PM
No, I'm referring to most schools. Great for the cal state schools. Open your eyes. MOST, vast majority are, at this time, saying dorms will be open.

I heard of the cal schools - state schools - cool. Check out other schools, again, AT THIS TIME.
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Games without fans - 07/16/20 11:18 PM
AHH colleges. They want your MONEY and don't give a crap about anything else. I guess they have not changed in the last 45 years.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Games without fans - 07/16/20 11:26 PM
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
AHH colleges. They want your MONEY and don't give a crap about anything else. I guess they have not changed in the last 45 years.


Except now they want even more money.
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Games without fans - 07/16/20 11:29 PM
*starting the paperwork to open up my own college*
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Games without fans - 07/17/20 12:08 AM
arch has a daughter in college. I think he is speaking from experience and I think it is very understandable why he is upset. It's his daughter! Maybe it is time for a bit of compassion?

arch, we fight a lot, but I think you are a good family man. I'm sorry you are having to deal w/this situation w/your daughter and college. It freaking sucks and you have my full support.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Games without fans - 07/17/20 12:22 AM
I was just saying I haven’t heard of colleges being open. I don’t begrudge him for worrying about the safety of his family.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 07/17/20 12:49 AM
How many colleges, U's have you heard about being closed, dorm wise?

Heads in beds - that's what they want.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Games without fans - 07/17/20 01:27 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
How many colleges, U's have you heard about being closed, dorm wise?

Heads in beds - that's what they want.


I’ve literally heard nothing. I just assumed online meant kids are staying home.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 07/17/20 01:35 AM
My daughter's room mate one of three, has absolutely NO in person classes, but as of today, she is still required to live on campus.

You do the math on that one.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Games without fans - 07/17/20 01:38 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
My daughter's room mate one of three, has absolutely NO in person classes, but as of today, she is still required to live on campus.

You do the math on that one.


That’s crazy and makes no sense. I guess she could just pay for the dorm and stay home.

What school is this?
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Games without fans - 07/17/20 09:27 AM
J/C

State schools in PA are talking all possibilities. They recently canceled all fall sports, but haven’t made the commitment to online schools. As of now they’re still advertising for in person
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 07/17/20 04:16 PM
So Penn State isn't playing football? There goes the Big 10.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Games without fans - 07/19/20 04:26 PM
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Games without fans - 07/19/20 04:27 PM
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Games without fans - 07/19/20 04:28 PM
Posted By: Dawg Citizen Re: Games without fans - 07/25/20 05:30 PM
If they play this will be the year Browns get to the SB and no fans will be allowed in the stadium.
Posted By: Dawg Citizen Re: Games without fans - 08/01/20 07:59 PM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

Covid 19 has altered the way we live. Still so much unknown. One expert I heard on Meet the Press said we will have to learn to live with this virus.

Made we wonder about stadiums without fans. How would that environment affect performance?

Most players have been playing in front of people since Mom and Dad were at Pop Warner games or equivalent. Each grade up more people in the stands.

TV may add crowd noise. They may put people computer generated images into the stands. Who knows what the end result will look like.

But playing games with nobody there will have to be one strange sensation. No worry about hearing signals. But no juice. No cheers. What dance moves in the end zone with nobody there? Will the players be flat? Will the lack of crowd emotion actually change play?

I wonder. Nothing to base it on.
Living with the virus doesn't mean there will not be a vaccine for it. It will be like living with the flu. Those who want it will get a covid-19 vaccine shot, or shots, every year like you can do for the flu.

I don't think the players will be flat because of no crowd. Football is an emotional game and they will find ways to fire each other up.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 08/01/20 08:07 PM
You ever play sports? The crowd gets you amped up more than normal. Period.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 08/01/20 08:46 PM

I have been watching baseball.

Yes it is strange. But on a tv screen you are withdrawn. You watch but being there is different.

The players on the field have adapted. They are pros. They practice to empty seats. When the game begins they are competing against another team. They know they are on tv.

The juices take over.

Football is emotional. I think the players will find it strange to begin with but will adapt. Once they start hitting on each other. Muscle and brain react to how they prepare.

I wonder about the time away. Can young guys isolate themselves?

This is all an experiment.
Posted By: waterdawg Re: Games without fans - 08/01/20 08:53 PM
I "believe" some players feed of the crowd more than others .. On the Tribe it's Lindor..
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 08/01/20 09:08 PM
Those are great questions and insights. Can noise and such help the home team and make it so they feel more juice? I have wondered about artificial fans in the seats and such.

Loowered the bar for one and all. Going to be odd to watch. I also enjoy fans and visual spectacle. Like Duke's student section in basketball, Buckeye crowd and script Ohio in the shoe. The uproar factor, the sheer noise, that's part of live sports. Like "Wild Thing" in Major League. Accept no substitutes. WWe will get back to it and maybe it will be even more frenzied after this. Absence makes the hearts go wilder!" brownie
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 08/01/20 10:56 PM
My plan: Have a lottery for season ticket holders for x amount of seats. The seats would be socially distant, temp taken on entry, masks required. The seat chart would be monitored. Bathrooms would have an attendant only x amount at one time, stalls only. Walking areas and parking would have signs asking to maintain social distance.

I think it could work. It "should" be only outdoors. Possibly indoors but that would need extra research and adjustments. Maybe less people and attention to air circulation.

The virus can only jump so far and do so much.

It will not happen but "if" people could be counted on it would work.

Back to reality. The biggest adjustment will be for the players to adapt to forced isolation. They will be leaned on heavy about what is expected regarding their conduct.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 08/02/20 10:49 AM
Once 3-4 teams become infected and can't play and games are called off, the NFL will understand how stupid this is.

Players aren't going to stay in bubbles. All will have to go to the store several times a week for food and necessities. Some will have to hit a club to "hook up". The same goes for all staff employed by the Browns, or any other team for that matter.

What about the aircraft they will have to sit in for a hour or three, or the bus for local transport? What about hotel rooms? Who is to say a few rooms don't get cleaned as well as others? Who is going to get those rooms? Locker rooms. Are teams going to clean the opponents locker as well as they clean their own? Food service. Players are going to need to eat.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 08/02/20 03:11 PM
j/c

About the whole "take your temperature before entering" thing. There's quite a percentage of Covid infected people who show no symptoms. They carry and spread the disease without showing any symptoms. Taking a persons temperature would eliminate those with a fever but would allow people who are asymptomatic to enter.

It's a measure taken to make you feel safe that pretty much accomplishes nothing.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Games without fans - 08/02/20 03:22 PM
I agree. We’ve had to take temperatures before workouts and stuff ... but it’s pointless and is just done to seem like we’re being safe
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 08/02/20 03:57 PM

When I go to the local aquatic center to lap swim. They have closed the locker room and showers. When you come to the front door they take your temp. It could turn back those who may have a low grade fever which is a pre-symptom in many cases. I understand the problem with asymptomatic carriers. But if outdoors, socially distant, along with required masks; the risk factor would be dramatically cut down. Eliminated?

I doubt like I said that this would go into effect.

Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 08/02/20 04:22 PM
Being outside and wearing a mask certainly helps mitigate the situation without close proximity and physical contact.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 12:05 PM
I think the temperature thing is just 1 part. It's like a filter. Different filters catch different sized particles. And we use multiple filters if we truly want a clean product.

Taking temperatures filters is the course sediment filter, it filters out the obvious, and most likely the most infectious.

If people would have better manners and be more courteous toward others, they would just stay home if they had a fever, but many people don't. Just look at the number of people that don't wear masks, or sneeze/cough without covering up.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 12:18 PM
Sounds reasonable to me, up to th point where you introduce fans. Human nature and just rebelliousness is the threat.

We are just starting the spread (hopeI am wrong) if we jam kids into school. Regular flu was a chore, but with this to boot? We could really ramp this up.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 12:25 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
j/c

About the whole "take your temperature before entering" thing. There's quite a percentage of Covid infected people who show no symptoms. They carry and spread the disease without showing any symptoms. Taking a persons temperature would eliminate those with a fever but would allow people who are asymptomatic to enter.

It's a measure taken to make you feel safe that pretty much accomplishes nothing.


That's not entirely fair Pit. Taking Temp is just the first quick step in finding out who MAY be infected.

It was never intended to do anything for the virus other than give an idea if the infection (any infection)is present
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 02:52 PM
Oh it's fair. Asymptomatic people spread the virus just as much as anyone else with the virus. The number of asymptomatic people is huge.
Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 06:51 PM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
How many colleges, U's have you heard about being closed, dorm wise?

Heads in beds - that's what they want.


Harvard has said all of their classes will be online for this school year. They are still charging full price... but their classes will be online only until the all-clear.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 07:06 PM
Just moved our daughter in to her dorm today. 2 weeks until classes. (she'll be home until then).

We had a 10:30 to 12:30 time slot. Next room mate had 12:30 to 2:30. Next room mate 2:30 to 4:30, and room mate 4 has 4:30 to 6:30. Because of the virus.

That's all well and good, right? Until 2 weeks from now, when the 4 of them will be there together.

The 1 room mate has NO in person classes. Not 1, but is required to live on campus. My daughter has 1 in person class.....and then it was changed to on line, but has now been changed back to in person ....wonder how many times it will change between now and the time school starts.

U of T requires all freshman and sophomores to live on campus unless they live 20 (or 30) miles away or closer.

Heads in beds.

This will be her 3rd semester at Toledo, but with taking college classes in h.s., and 1 class this summer at a Com. College, she SHOULD be able to start nursing school after this semester - probably doing the summer and fall semesters. Absolutely everything is day to day, week to week, month to month.

If, IF things go as we think they could, she'll take the spring semester off, and start nursing school in the summer. She'll share an apartment closer to the Health sciences campus - and probably save us money.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 07:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Spiritbro77
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
How many colleges, U's have you heard about being closed, dorm wise?

Heads in beds - that's what they want.


Harvard has said all of their classes will be online for this school year. They are still charging full price... but their classes will be online only until the all-clear.





I understand full price. They won't charge room and board. I am sure the professors will still be available for private counseling as they normally are. That is always scheduled. You don't just show up at the professors office and expect 20-30 private minutes. That time has been scheduled forever.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 07:09 PM
What if you attend Harvard, but live in Texas? Kinda tough to stop in at the prof's office.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 07:11 PM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
What if you attend Harvard, but live in Texas? Kinda tough to stop in at the prof's office.




It would be online, just as the class.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 07:57 PM
I tried the online thing, but the the Doctor said a colonoscopy doesn't work like that, so I got down from my desk and pulled my pants up.
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 11:19 PM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Just moved our daughter in to her dorm today. 2 weeks until classes. (she'll be home until then).

We had a 10:30 to 12:30 time slot. Next room mate had 12:30 to 2:30. Next room mate 2:30 to 4:30, and room mate 4 has 4:30 to 6:30. Because of the virus.

That's all well and good, right? Until 2 weeks from now, when the 4 of them will be there together.

The 1 room mate has NO in person classes. Not 1, but is required to live on campus. My daughter has 1 in person class.....and then it was changed to on line, but has now been changed back to in person ....wonder how many times it will change between now and the time school starts.

U of T requires all freshman and sophomores to live on campus unless they live 20 (or 30) miles away or closer.

Heads in beds.

This will be her 3rd semester at Toledo, but with taking college classes in h.s., and 1 class this summer at a Com. College, she SHOULD be able to start nursing school after this semester - probably doing the summer and fall semesters. Absolutely everything is day to day, week to week, month to month.

If, IF things go as we think they could, she'll take the spring semester off, and start nursing school in the summer. She'll share an apartment closer to the Health sciences campus - and probably save us money.


I take my son Wednesday form 3-5 to Thiel.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 11:22 PM
Where is Thiel?
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 11:23 PM
j/c:

I heard something about the number one reason universities are bringing students back on campus is to justify playing football this upcoming year. Harvard and other Ivy League schools cancelled football, so I get why they made their decision.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 11:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
j/c:

I heard something about the number one reason universities are bringing students back on campus is to justify playing football this upcoming year. Harvard and other Ivy League schools cancelled football, so I get why they made their decision.


You can’t justify the football players being student athletes if school is not going on for everyone else. The ironic part is that football players mostly take online classes anyway.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Games without fans - 08/03/20 11:48 PM
You are probably aware of what is going on w/all of this, so I am not saying it for your benefit.......but I heard some stuff from the PAC 12 in the last couple of days and it sickens me how these aesthetes are being exploited. The one DB who is projected to be a first round pick talked about how they are not being tested and over 100 of them are in close quarters. Absolutely disgusting.

I might start a thread about the demands of the PAC 12 players and the comments from the Washington State coach. This is big news in my opinion. These guys need a voice.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Games without fans - 08/04/20 12:11 AM
pennsylvania (I think Greeneville? or Green something or other). Private LAs. Good rep!

Good luck!
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Games without fans - 08/04/20 10:09 AM
Is Thiel’s move in day already here? I have a good friend attending this fall ... surprised it’s so early
Posted By: bonefish Re: Games without fans - 08/04/20 12:08 PM

That is why at the end I stated that this will never work.


There are just to many people who refuse to follow science. Ignore obvious reasonable precautions.

You can not screen stupid.

Sadly the US has proved that by our response to the virus.
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