Makes sense.

It seems all is not rosy in Candy Land.

The Browns are never going to win if this kind of thing continues!

It makes sense in the assumption of being the alleged #2 TE a year or two away from his second contract, both for he and his agent.

I think the upside on Njoku is very high and would hate to see him leave. And maybe the value on that upside his higher than the return the Browns would get as a result of a trade, but who knows....maybe there is a team that likes the upside as well.

I would hope Stefanski would let him in on his fetish for TEs. Then again, even if he does, when you have OBJ, Hooper, and Landry demanding targets and snaps, his playing time could be diminished significantly, even in two TE formations.

at what point do teams start making players honor their contracts. I mean yeah we got an upgrade in Hooper and I'm excited to see Bryant, but in this offense a freak like Njoku would probably excel. It isn't surprising any drama in offseason to have Drew's name associated.

Good opportunity for Harrison Bryant now (assuming Njoku's traded). Possibly Stephen Carlson as well.

At what point des the league start honoring theirs? I mean they write up these huge, drawn out contracts and then put the clause that they only have to honor "the guaranteed" portion of it.

24 years old and going into his 4th season in the NFL. That's nuts. I wish we would have seen a healthy Njoku with zero Freddie Kitchens influence when he came back. The kid started the season off strong before going down. He had a good 2018 campaign as well.

Criminally underused last year when he was healthy. Freddie Fatboy is gone and still having a effect on this roster
Njoku could be a top 10 TE with a coaching staff
That knows how to use his talents

If he could block I'd be worried about losing him. Since he can't/won't, he's our 2nd TE AND could very well end up #3 by the end of the year.

True competitors embrace competition.

Hey Sashi Brown fanclub that 2017 Draft isn't exactly looking like a promising draft is it ?

Shhh... They're too busy ranting about Freddie right now. Don't disturb them.

j/c...

The Browns wanting to keep him is smart. We'll see what happens.

I’d keep him ... he’ll be a valuable part considering the usage of TEs we will see

Trade him for Ngakoue.

He wants out of Jax. He is only 25. Terrific young DE. We would have to sign him but he would be worth it.

Lock up Garrett. With Garrett and Ngakoue we would have great bookends.

He is way more valuable than Njoku.

Which is why trading him for Njoku makes no sense.

This not a new idea. Njoku is young and was a first rounder.

Jax's are in a similar situation. He wants out. He has made it that clear.

It may take a a mid round pick as well. But Njoku would be a good add for them.

He is in a bad place with the Browns. He will not get many balls. He will lower his value staying.

We have the money. We are already paying Vernon $15m. And shopping for Clowney.

So why not?

If I were Njoku I would probably be want to be traded too. He is going to, what amounts to, a contract year and he’s at best the fourth receiving option on the team.

As a team it makes sense to want to keep him because we are probably going to run tons of multiple tight end sets and Njoku is a great second tight end.

In the end the value we would get back for him doesn’t make a trade very plausible.

Because Njoku and a mid round pick is not nearly enough to get Yannick Ngakoue. If that was the price he’d have already been traded by now.

I saw the Cowboys are rumored to be interested .. but IMO it’s not even worth discussing for like a 5th round pick or whatever

He will ultimately be traded for fiddlesticks.

Someone call the Texans and see if we can get a first rounder....

Honestly I hope we keep him...

j/c:

Can't wait to hear Baker say: "You're either on this train or you're not."

I've never been all that impressed with Njoku. It always seemed as though he dropped passes at an inopportune time, and could not/would not block. There are 2 other former 1st round picks looking for new teams, Jamaal Adams of the Jets and Ngakoue of the Jags. Couple that with supposed interest from the Cowboys, the Browns may be able to help the Defense more than expected. It seems as though the Cowboys have decent linebackers. Maybe a trade of Njoku for a linebacker that may not start .. Leighton Vander Esche, Sean Lee, Jaylon Smith, or Joe Thomas. Jason Whitten is gone, maybe Jerry Jones will part with a Linebacker to get Njoku.

I'm in agreement with you. He gets hyped like a Winslow, but has produced more like a Quincy Morgan, nd I don't feel that's hyperbolic.

He has all the talent and upside you could want, minus blocking, but his hands just aren't what they should be.

We should definitely try to rob Jax.

This is 2020. The role of the TE in NFL offenses
Has completely changed.
Yeah years ago when running the football was the
Bread and butter of a offense it was expected your TE had to be able block chip get to 2nd level and blow up a LB etc.
Now with the focus on the passing game your TE
Is expected to eat up and feast on the back 7.
These coaches are in for a harsh reality trying
To teach these TEs to be able to block at
The pro level when the barely had to do it
In college.

This is 2020. The role of the TE in NFL offenses
Has completely changed.
Yeah years ago when running the football was the
Bread and butter of a offense it was expected your TE had to be able block chip get to 2nd level and blow up a LB etc.
Now with the focus on the passing game your TE
Is expected to eat up and feast on the back 7.
These coaches are in for a harsh reality trying
To teach these TEs to be able to block at
The pro level when the barely had to do it
In college.

You can say that again.

I actually really like that idea

I should've added to my post...

I don't hold it against him for seeking a trade. I've been frustrated with his play and that he's still all potential... Dude hasn't lived up to the hype.

But these guys gotta strike while iron is hot. This year is so so important for him, and he's got a LOT working against him playing on this team. There are no fewer than 5 guys on the offense that are going to get more touches than him. And while I think/hope things will be markedly better this year, last year still happened and there are big question marks with the offense and the guy throwing the ball.
I don't blame him. At some point it's no longer about avoiding competition and more about putting yourself in an environment where you're going to succeed.

Too me, this is not a big deal, if he's unhappy and does not want to be here, then what is the point in keeping him? I would not take the chance that he sits out or doesn't play to full potential. Plus, the more pressing issue, is he's been hit or miss and is not a very good blocker. We have Hooper, I'm sure we could find another tE, in fact, didn't we draft one? So, if we can get a 4th for him, let him go and movie on.

That’s because it is completely unrealistic and would heavily favor us.

Yep, nobody is giving up any really top notch player or prospect without getting something in return and Njoku just isn't enough. Hell, I don't think we could get a decent draft pick for him, 4th round pick would surprise me.

Maybe we can bring Dorsey back in. He got a third for Duke after Baker trashed him. He got picks for guys like Kessler, Hogan, Coleman, etc. And he got Randall for Kizer.

Man, that dude sucked!

1st, Njoku for a backup Lb? We could make that balance out with a mid-round pick.



2nd:
Report: Cowboys have no interest in David Njoku
Charean Williams
ProFootball Talk on NBC SportsJuly 3, 2020, 7:05 PM EDT

Judging by what’s on social media, the Cowboys supposedly are interested in trading for safety Jamal Adams, signing free agent defensive end Jadeveon Clowney and now trading for tight end David Njoku. It’s unknown how anyone would expect the Cowboys to fit one under their salary cap much less all three.

Every time a big-name player hits free agency or demands a trade, the player often is linked to the Cowboys.

Speculation that the Cowboys might have interest in Njoku began after his new agent, Drew Rosenhaus, asked the Browns to trade Njoku.

But Mike Fisher of SI.com quotes two sources as saying the Cowboys have no interest in trading for Njoku.

It makes no sense that they would, especially given what the Browns would want in return.

The Cowboys signed Blake Jarwin to a four-year deal with a base value of $22 million, including guarantees of $9.25 million, in March to be their starting tight end. They let veteran Jason Witten leave in free agency for the Raiders after he was something of a progress-stopper for Jarwin last season.

The Cowboys signed blocking tight end Blake Bell, formerly a part-time starter with the Chiefs, and they still have Dalton Schultz on the roster.

The Cowboys have a far bigger to-do on their to-do list. They have 12 days to get Dak Prescott signed to a long-term deal. Otherwise the quarterback will play 2020 under the $31.4 million franchise tag.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/properly-dispose-mail-credit-cards-122057290.html

The bottom line is that his production has not matched his draft position. He need to look into a mirror and figure out why....

I'm not so sure that it's Njoku that's unhappy. I think it's quite possible his agent may have something to do with that.

He's been injured?

You can’t help the club if you are in the tub.

But it's still a great paycheck.

I always felt that Njoku choked often. No other way to put it. He has all the measurables, but not the production to match. He was injured last year, but not in prior years. I wish we would have kept DeValve. He was released by that Jags after signing as a free agent, with a non football injury designation.

I agree ... Njoku seems to drop it just too much for my liking. Not saying I’d immediately trade him, but he’s nowhere near his 1st round value

J/C. This seems to be a weird time to ask for a trade. I am wondering what transpired that pushed this thing to happen now and not back in April. I think David is very talented but has not proven to be a #1 type option guy. He was the youngest player in draft when we selected him and was very raw in his technique. Sad that we may not see him peak in a Browns uniform, but if he ain’t happy in Cleveland then Adios and good luck. Your next situation may be worse and then Free Agency may not be all that great either considering your stats.

Screw Njoku. Take a 4th or 5th and let him underachieve somewhere else.

He is great at blocking the ball from being caught by his hands.

You always say you'll evaluate the draft at the 3 year mark. So is this your Njoku evaluation?

Timeline:

Njoku seems happy to be back with the Browns..

2 days ago he changed agents and now wants traded?

This stinks of Drew Rosenhous trying to get a bigger deal from the Browns

This is where there is often a disconnect.

Njoku fired his agent. Hires Drew R. who is the guy who got Duke out of here.

Agents of course are suppose to put their clients in the best possible situation.

Berry was a key player in drafting Njoku. So he has stated that he wants to keep him. They traded up into the first to get him. So they thought highly of him are are vested in him.

Stefanski loves TE's and will run two TE's sets often. They signed Hooper as a high priced free agent. And then drafted Bryant in the fourth round.

So Njoku is afraid to compete with a fourth rounder? A first round pick in his fourth year and he can not beat out Bryant for playing time?

If they could get something above a third or a player that would be able to contribute. I would trade him.

If all they could get for him is a fifth; I would keep him. And I would make sure he knows if he wants to play. He will have to earn it. Then Njoku would be highly motivated so he could increase his value.

I do not like bending to players under contract. Especially in this case. Njoku got in trouble with both Freddie and Dorsey. There has to be a attitude problem with him. I know Dorsey stated that Njoku needed to block better. Once he was healthy enough to return last year. He was benched.

Freddie may have had a problem as a head coach but he knows about player effort.

So I am not big on Njoku. But as a GM and a head coach you have to try and get the talent out of an investment. So it will be interesting to see how this will be handled.

You are doing a lot of assuming and all of it is one-sided. I think drafting Njoku that high was a mistake, but I don't think he is a bad person. I remember watching Hard Knocks and he came across as the nicest guy on the team. He was always trying to improve and he treated others w/respect.

I think this has more to do w/how he perceives his role on the team moving forward and perhaps even a personality conflict or two.

It's what agents do. Nothing wrong with that. Drew sees his guy is going to be second fiddle to Hooper. It's a contract year. Both he and David see it might be better to be in a situation where he is the #1 guy.

You understand placing people in jobs where they can perform. You were/are a agent. I don't know if you made more by getting people in to higher paying jobs, I would assume so, but it could be a flat fee, I am not sure how your business works. Anyway, if you think of it in those terms, you understand. You were/are a agent for people seeking better jobs. They might not be football players, but it doesn't really matter. You are there to help the clients who sought your help and do your best to do so.

Mine would be that the kid has all the talent in the world, but is really lacking in the Brains department. Great skill set, bad attitude, bad work ethic, and an attitude that has stopped him from improving himself and living up to his talent. He has two choices right now for his career. Pull his head out of his backside, and bust his butt to be a very good NFL tight end, or continue down the path he is on and be out of the NFL after a few so so seasons.

I don't think Njoku is a bad person. I agree, he seems like a good person. I agree it's about what he and Drew see as his role on the team.

He just became the 2nd TE even if we play 2 tight ends 85% of the time.

I like Carlson, he flashed some stuff, the newly drafted TE. David and Drew know he isn't going to do enough to max out another contract playing for the Browns.

Go to a team where he might catch 70 balls, then you take it from there. It's about putting yourself in the best position.


I get it. Trade him, gain a pick which we still like to do, and we take it from there. We don't know what that might turn in to. Might turn in to gold, might turn in to crap.

He was called out by Dorsey and was benched by Freddie.

That is fact not assumption.

Nice guy? Sure. Seems like a personable guy and likable. Not important if he does not do the work.

Where he was drafted mistake or not is not relevant other than perception right now.

He has not produced.

Njoku and his agent Drew want greener pastures. Ok. I understand that. Business.

That is also the case with the Browns. He is under contract. It is up to the Browns not Njoku.

If he wants to increase his market value and team value.

Play hard, block and earn reps.

Simple IMO.

I’ve not been much of a fan. He’s an athletic talent but seems to not have any feel for the game. I’ll take a slower, less athletic guy that catches the ball well, knows how to find soft spots in zones, sheds blocks, disguises his intentions at the line, ‘feels’ the game around him, etc, over a fast guy that can jump... with questionable hands.

J/c

If it’s Rosenhaus trying to push for a big/new deal ... that ain’t working.

If it’s Rosenhaus trying to push for a trade ... that MIGHT work, but I doubt it

Yes, like Gary Barnidge, or for some of you older guys out there, Milt Morin.

I would keep him rather than give him away for a 4th or 5th

This seems like a Terrelle Pryor level miscalculation on NJoku's part. I don't see the market demand for him returning a significant asset for the Browns. I also don't see much advantage for the new regime caving to his demands. He is being fairly compensated. The team demonstrated a financial commitment to him when they extended him. In spite of the general argument that contracts aren't honored by teams that doesn't apply in this specific situation. The Browns have been fair with David, financially. Whatever the problem is it isn't money.

If he doesn't report then let him sit and develop the offense with the guys who come in. If it comes to a point where it's necessary I'd impose fines.

The exception that I would make is a trade for Ngakoue. Njoku, and our extra 3rd might get it done.

Stay and play. It is a contract. This isn't a catered event run by his agent. Clawback might be nice. Certainly hasn't panned much gold IMO.

That’s probably a good comparison ... iMO he should stay and put together a good year

If the price for Ngakoue is a backup tight end and a third round pick then he would not still be on the Jaguars.

Yep. Compensation starts at a 3rd round pick or comparable talent at a position of need... otherwise - no deal.

Agreed. Myself, I would like to keep him but if we have to trade him I'd like to see no less than a 3rd. Ask the Pats, they usually like to pick up our ex- players and they can use a TE.

If Njoku wants his trade demands met simply because he is dissatisfied why couldn't the same apply to Ngakoue? Who, by the way, was a third-round pick. The Jags incentive may be that if he isn't traded they will get nothing when he becomes a free agent next season.

If the argument is that Njuko and a third-round pick is not sufficient to make this deal then the same argument should be made by the Browns for allowing David out of his contract if the return is not to their liking. I can live with that.

Ngakoue is not currently under contract. He controls the whole process.

My point is that if someone offered a backup tight end and a third round pick for Ngakoue then the Jaguars would have already traded him by now.

Ngakoue is under contract with the Jags for 2020.

Source: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/yannick-ngakoue-19018/

I'm not naive enough to consider this trade to be simple to do. I do think that the disgruntled posture of both players could affect their trade value. The Jags have no leverage after this coming season.

The Jaguars have a cap hold for the amount of the franchise tag but Ngakoue hasn’t signed the contract as of today.

David Njoku is demanding Cleveland Browns trade him? You gotta be kidding -- Terry Pluto

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio – He didn’t do enough to demand to be traded.

That was my first thought when I heard David Njoku’s new agent asked the Browns to trade the tight end, and to do it before training camp.

You know how many passes Njoku caught last season? Five. Let’s be fair. He had a broken wrist and was out for 10 games. But he was healthy at the end of the season and was a healthy scratch for two of the final three games. He played in four games, caught five passes. He also had two drops.


The 6-foot-4, 246-pound Njoku clashed with former coach Freddie Kitchens. His work ethic and attitude were questioned by the previous regime.

But the new front office and coaching staff likes him.


BERRY’S VOTE OF CONFIDENCE


GM Andrew Berry picked up Njoku’s $6.1 million option for 2021; he already is under contract for $1.8 million.

OK, the $6.1 million option is guaranteed for “injury only” in 2021. But only 18 of 32 players drafted in 2017 and eligible for that fifth year option had it picked up by their teams.

Njoku obviously didn’t like the Browns signing free agent tight end Austin Hooper to a $42 million deal. But new coach Kevin Stefanski used at least two tight ends 57 percent of the time when calling plays in Minnesota last season. According to ESPN, that was the highest rate of multiple tight-end sets in the NFL in 2019.


Stefanski has said he has formations including three tight ends! Njoku is with a coach who is close to being obsessed with the position. I put those words in italics because it’s important.

A healthy Njoku in the proper frame of mind is with an offense where he could have a huge season.

Njoku has to realize Berry was part of the 2017 Sashi Brown front office that traded up into the first round to grab him with the 29th pick.

Berry was a significant talent evaluator for that front office and has a stake in Njoku playing well. It’s part of the reason the 2021 option was picked up. Berry thinks the 24 year old can play, period.


In fact, the Browns are telling teams they are not anxious to deal Njoku, regardless of what his agent says.



WHAT’S THE DEAL?

The Browns drafted tight end Harrison Bryant in the fourth round. But if Njoku is worried about losing playing time to a fourth-round rookie, there is something wrong with his competitive spirit.

My guess is immaturity is at work.

He doesn’t have a realistic view of his situation. He neglects the fact that he’s a weak blocker. His hands are suspect. He has a lot of physical talent but doesn’t realize how frustrating he can be to a coach because of his lack of consistency.

He hired as his new agent Drew Rosenhaus, who was the agent who asked the Browns to trade Duke Johnson last year.

That made some sense. Future Pro Bowler Nick Chubb was starting at running back. The Browns had signed Pro Bowler Kareem Hunt, who was going to be eligible to play in the final eight games of 2019. The Browns were packed with running backs. Johnson was traded to Houston for a third-rounder.


But that’s not the case with tight ends for Njoku in 2020.

In 2018, Njoku caught 56 passes. He still dropped eight passes and had the highest drop rate of any tight end in 2018 according to Profootballfocus.

In contrast, Hooper has caught 146 passes compared to only four drops.

Remember the new motto for Berry/Stefanski: Players who are “tough, smart, accountable.” You also can add this: “Guys who want to be here.”


If I’m the Browns and Njoku’s desire to leave negatively impacts his attitude, he should be traded.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/07...erry-pluto.html

They lost their 3rd round pick in their latest video escapade.

I don't see the point in keeping him. Hooper is the main guy, and Carlson and the rook are better than David. Heck, Pharaoh is probably as good as David.

I would like to get a 4th for him at least. Maybe throw in a ham sammich. We see again how much an underperforming malcontent can monopolize our publicity. Play him and use him up.

I do not think he can perform well enough to hold his position spot. Hooper?

This is the common perception that is repeated over and over again, but there are some caveats to the numbers. Stefanski might love TEs and he might not. I leave that topic open because of the WR situation in Minni last year. Both Diggs and Theilan missed some time w/injuries. Both guys are quality receivers and the Vikings had trash at the position behind them.

Thus, I don't know if Stefanski used TEs so frequently because he loves them so much or if he had to do so out of need.

I think the article was short-sighted on other levels, as well. Think about it...........the Browns have OBJ and Landry at WR. They are going to get a ton of targets. Hooper is the highest-paid TE in the game [has anyone complained about him being overpaid?] and will get a lot of targets. Chubb and Hunt will get targets. Hunt is especially good as a receiver. Not much left for Njoku. I can understand why he might want to play in a place where he has more opportunities.

That's right, my mistake. Well, we can ask for a 2nd in 21" or a 3rd and 5th in "22 !!!!

I agree. I don't see it as him being a malcontent. I think he sees the writing on the wall and he isn't going to have many opportunities. For receivers, it's about targets

That isn't going to help him with his next contract if his target total is around 30-40. Hunt is going to get more than that.

First of all I never said there was anything wrong with it other than it sends a pretty dim message to the team and fans.

I represent the clients, meaning corporations. That means that taking people and moving them from one client to another would be consider to be a horrible move. One demonstrating a lack of Character

Sorry, that now makes sense, you working for the company and not working so much for the worker.

I was thinking in reverse. My bad.

j/c

My first thought was that Njoku wants out because he thinks he will not get enough chances to prove/improve his worth.

My second thought was to question his competitive drive. I quickly tabled that thought because I have no way of knowing anything about his drive.

Then I thought "wasn't Rosenhaus Pryor's agent".

What I settled on is where does he think he can go and get better opportunities? He's not yet developed into a #1...not even close. He's a #2...on what appears to be a very TE friendly offense. I realize we have a slew of other weapons...but so do other teams. His GM likes him. He has a new coach and is not yet in any doghouse. He will likely open camp as the #2.

He needs a friend to set him straight.

I thought that was well put. Maybe a little competition shy? He sees what will be coming to town. If the offense achieves well, then Berea should be one fine place to be a TE.

That Pryor mention gave rise to a thought: We have the phrase 'cap casualty' describing that process. Some agents seem to delude or clients or exaggerate their worth. Maybe we need a new term for that process, something like 'agent casualty.' I have to question some motives driving situations in today's NFL conditions. JMO.

Even if his target total is only 30-40, its still enough opportunity to convince other teams of what he could do for them. If out of those targets he hauls in 5 TD's, has a handful of long gains, and can show he's a reliable 3rd and long target, he would make a strong case as a guy who would deserve an expanded role.

Possibly so, but 25-35 catches doesn't usually lead to a big contract.

j/c:

David Njoku through three seasons.

j/c

I keep seeing people speak about where players were drafted. At this point in time that makes no difference. None. It's what you've done as a pro that counts. Some teams do prefer former first round picks because at least at some point in time someone felt highly enough of their talent level to invest that highly in them.

Most coaches have an ego. They think they and they alone have the power to "fix a player" who another coach may have broken. But coaches for the most part don't make the deals. The FO does that. A FO usually doesn't overpay for a player who never lived up to the hype.

I agree, I have said that for years. You are what you are.

Just because a guy was picked early doesn't mean we should get a early pick to maintain value in a trade.

If a 7th rounder goes to the pro-bowl 3 years running, nobody is going to insist we only get a 6th or 7th round pick in return.

It is simply a matter of production and worth. It doesn't matter where they were drafted, if drafted at all.

I read somewhere that Nojoku was ranked 41st out of 41 eligible tight ends in 2018, due to his drops. 2019 rankings did not rate him, due to injury.

It was probably a Steelers' site.

If it was, they'd rank him higher in the hopes he sees the field more.

The kid is great, but he is NOT what the hype says he is.
Actually, so far, he isn't even close.

For as athletic as he is, he seems kind of lumbering to me. I don't see anything particularly dynamic when I watch him play. But he's still young and yet to see his best days. What those will be is anyone's guess.

Having said that, my mantra is and will always be you cannot have too many good players, especially in light of the inevitable injuries (unless you're the Ravens) that is par for the course in football. I hope the Browns do not give in to his demands.

I hope he is on the team this year and has a monster season. I also like drafting good football players that end up on the team for a long time.

It was Njoku's ranking based solely on drops to catchable targets.

His overall ranking by PFF in 2018 was 26/70.

He was touted as the next K2 coming out of the U.
He simply couldn't hold K2's jock right now.
He can't block; he's a pass-catching TE with bad hands.

He just doesn't have the hands or consistency.... unfortunately, he didn't even have to get stupid on a motorcycle or recover an onside kick to see the field as little as K2.

Is that like a chef who can't cook or a guitar player who can't play guitar? LOL

I see nothing close to him being "lumbering." I do see "dynamic." He flashes due to his athleticism, burst, hops, fluidity, gait, etc.

He struggles w/inconsistent hands, poor blocking techniques, route running, and coverage recognition.

Lets get an LB

Has he ever broken a tackle and taken one to the house? Has he ever outrun a D? Has he ever done anything remotely athletic to an opposing D? I don't recall any.

I don't see dynamic. And I'm a fan of Njoku. Want him on the team. But we don't have to embellish.

He’s not been an impact player. Trade him.

If we were only supposed to keep “impact” players then we’d only
Have like four players on the roster.

He mostly has been barely average, when not hurt.

To be fair, TE's don't usually outrun defenders and take it to the house.

I see it this way, the guy wants out for whatever the reason. I don't believe we were going to sign him once his contract expires. We already have a top dollar TE on the roster. We aren't going to have two.

Tell Rosenhaus to find 2 teams that wants him, then we get with those teams to talk about compensation.

It would be nice to get a 3rd, but I doubt that. We are probably looking at a mid 4th down to a top end 5th rounder.

That's ok..you can package that pick with another to move up, or you can still find good players in that range.

J/c

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned much, and who knows if it’s true ... but Dustin Fox speculated that Njoku hasn’t had the best attitude behind closed doors. Saying he’d trade him too

Since you asked nicely:

I have been a believer in Njoku's talent. I thought he he could become and real threat especially in the red zone.

I can understand him and his agent looking for more opportunities.

Last year he was hurt. That was bad for him. I expected a great year. Now after signing Hooper and then drafting Bryant. Njoku would be challenged.

The Browns are in the drivers seat here. They know him, his agent and their intentions.

If they can get a player who could make a bigger contribution then they should move him.

Trading him to pacify him and his agent for a 4th or 5th rounder would not equal his value. So if that is the case then they should keep him.

I can think of one time,, he wasn't about to be brought down,,, he was close to the Goal Line then I think it was one of our Olinemen that pushed him across the final foot or two.. But he fought like hell.,

So, yeah, he did at least once

You know what? I apologize. There were some pretty athletic moves in that highlight reel. Most were against 2018 Cincinnati, but still.

Maybe lumbering wasn't the right word I was looking for. There's something about his play that makes me think he's talented but not as talented as we were lead to believe when the Browns drafted him.

But he's also very young. I don’t want to see him traded.

I still say we just signed Hooper to 40 mil or whatever it was.

There is only so much room on the roster money wise for the TE position, we best trade him.


You can't have 2 tight ends on the team making 10 mil a year. That is simply the reality.

You have to go with one guy, the others are going to have to be bargain basement on young contracts.

Just saying.

Most likely he will be gone after this year unless he shows up big.

I thought this was a nice play by Njoku - NOT.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/12/...-carl-cheffers/

Didn't we already kinda sign him for another year when his contract was due to expire? We didn't have to pick up his extension, but we did.

The 5th year option is only guaranteed for injury. Yes, we "picked it up", but we can drop it just as fast if we so desire.

Yes and he sounded excited by the extension. Then he signs with Rosenhous and three days later, he want's traded...

i've been trying to be real patient with Njoku because we've been historically bad since he was drafted.

i gave him the benefit of the doubt last year due to Baker's medicine ball he caught.

but have Hooper makes it a lot easier to say bye to him if he wants to act like this, though.

Actually this is one place where we disagree. While it wouldn't equal what we perceived his value or potential to be when he was drafted, I thiknk it matches up pretty well with what he has shown since he's been in the NFL.

I disagree.

As I have said, we just signed Hooper to a big contract. We aren't signing David to some big contract.

If we have no intention to sign him and go with people on rookie contracts....note....we drafted a rookie TE, his value to us is nothing.

Forget what round he was drafted in. That doesn't matter. What matters is what he might be worth, and it is probably a 5th round pick. Maybe 4th.

Get over we traded up to get him in the 1st round. That money is gone.


I can't tell you how many times my wife and I have paid for something several months earlier...hotel room or show of some sort, then when the date comes up we couldn't go for some reason.

That money was over the falls a few months ago. No sense worrying about it now. Just the way it goes sometimes.

We have a club here in town. I bought tickets to see Jr. Brown and tickets to see John Sebastian. The concerts were canceled and rescheduled to later this fall. Songbirds, largest private guitar collection in the world....has a great concert venue...they bring in guitar players.

We still plan to go, but if not, that money has filtered through my wallet months ago. It's been paid for and I am thinking about other things now. If we can't go, I am not going to lose sleep thinking about the $75 a ticket I spent months ago.


A sample of Jr. Brown. I know most of you don't know of him.

If we think he'll be worth significantly more next offseason, then hang onto him and trade him then. I think KS knows about how many snaps/touches Njoku is going to see (barring injury), so I think we could make an educated guess if Njoku's value is going to go up or down.

That's a scenario I can see that speaks to keeping him. That, and Njoku has 0 leverage and is pretty cheap right now.

Rosenhaus just looking at numbers being taken by Njoku. I think its a wussy move I mean compete for the reps instead he is conceding that he is no Hooper. Tell Rosenhaus to work out a trade and we should get a 3rd rounder at the least possibly a 2nd rounder but I doubt it. Then he will find out how much the NFL considers him.

I hate agents...we demand a trade...well go work some things out on possible trade partners.

j/c:

Now we shall see of Njoku ends up being a holdout in camp to try and force a trade.

I'm guessing the "been wanted out" extends back to his feelings from the 2019 season.

Is "been wanted out" tied to Kitchens? And is it being said to give the illusion it's not about Hooper now?

j/c:

Kitchens is long-gone. I speculated about this earlier, but perhaps there is a player on the roster that Njoku doesn't really care for?

I am guessing the inference is he doesn't want to play with Baker? Can you confirm that was your intent?

If so it would be a little odd that you label Baker as wanting everything handed to him based on a couple of incidental reports about him with the Browns, ignoring his history as a walk on and earning every opportunity he ever received, and then performing excellently for a rookie after having not been prepared for the starting role.... and Njoku seemingly gets a free pass for announcing his wish to leave the team after the Browns sign a bonefide #1 TE, and instead of being labeled a quitter or someone who wants things handed to him you are happy to speculate that it's essentially the QB's fault (or at least it might be).

I was high on Njoku when we drafted him, and while he has definitely underwhelmed - I hope we keep him. He and Hooper would be a great 2 TE combo. I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a low 2nd or mid-high 3rd (projected) he has physical gifts that are simply hard to come by, he's had spells where he caught the ball well. I think he can still put it together.

Yeesh. The agenda is strong with this one.

Yeah, I'm sure he doesn't want to play behind Hooper.

I'm sure Vers was referring to Tretter. He's trying to stall the season denying Njoku of getting paid!

It was definitely Tretter!

What?

Tretter is just the player rep. He went to a Ivy school, Cornell, and degreed in labor relations.


He was elected because he knows what he is talking about and is a good NFL player. You don't want a dumb ass sitting at the table making your arguments. Ask Ricky Williams.


He has his ear on what players want.

Well that's why I wanted to qualify and didn't want to assume.

I don't think that's likely to be true... If he didn't want to play with Baker, why go to Texas to workout with him and other receivers?

I didn't know he did. Thanks for the info.

I respect that.

(Consider the source)

I try and ignore guys like you and 888, but how many shots are you going to take? Seriously? I have asked you nicely that we ignore one another. But, you take one shot after another.

"Consider the source?" Seriously? Are you calling me a bad person? You have repeatedly called me a "liar," "dishonest," etc.................and the refs let it go. If I were to respond to you in the same manner, I would be suspended.

I'll try again. Please back off. It's a message board and I can voice my opinions on subjects regarding the Browns. You can voice your opinions on subjects regarding the Browns. We can leave the personal BS out of it. Somehow, you just can't deal w/that. It's not good enough for us to both voice our opinions. You voice your opinion and insult me.

I don't have an issue with your opinions. Or anyone's opinions. I don't even have an issue if those opinions are based on zero or circumstantial evidence.

The only issue I have is the hypocrisy of doing the things you ask others not to do (you even did it in your reply to me). And I can't believe you haven't figured that out yet.

I have a friend who is a big Seahawks fan. He says the Seahawks are interested in David. He monkeys on his message boards just like us.

I think I get what you are saying. When you watch him play there's just something about him kind of hard to define. The more I thought about it I think it might be that he's one of those players who fits between 2 positions: TE and WR

He's got the height, vertical, and wingspan you like in both those positions. He's faster than your average TE, but too slow to be a WR. He's pretty reliable in terms of being where he needs to be, but his hands are just inconsistent enough to make throwing to him a bit of a gamble.

Or let's just face it, the guy is easy to tackle. Its not for lack of trying. It's just he's not so fast and he has that thin waist which makes it easier to wrap up around.


In terms of his reported negative attitude... who knows. For me, given how the team was handled last year, I actually expect a number of players to have some degree of a bad attitude. It's kind of a byproduct of a disorganized, undisciplined team so I take that kind of talk with a grain of salt.

I think he fits well there.

Realistically I wouldn't be angry with a conditional 3rd round pick that could become a 2nd. Similar to what happened with Duke last year.

You would be okay with that because it’d be a complete overpay by the team acquiring him.

I wouldn't trade him for less honestly. If we can't get at least that, we should keep him.

Agreed. He has more value to the team than most draft picks at this point.

Well you certainly don't ignore me when you want to question a post or have a dig at me.... seems you ignore me if I ask a perfectly reasonable question and seek clarification like I did above....

I think every man and his brother understands Device was insinuating you have an extremely negative viewpoint on Baker and if a situation can be taken a range of different ways, you always seem to take the least flattering and most critical perspective on him.... that's not to say (for example) that the pass protection wasn't better then the run blocking last year and that it is entirely fair to blame Baker for getting himself sacked or running out of clean pockets some last year ... but you seemingly bring up that point up on any possible thread possible and find ways to introduce that talking point.

Lastly you have called me a liar multiple times recently completely uncalled for and unfounded. Once again you feel like it's fine for you to do that, but if I ask a football question and seek clarification on a post you start calling me a stalker etc. Doesn't seem altogether equitable. And I cannot help it if you have ongoing disagreements with others on this board, so using them as cover doesn't sit well either.

I gotta stop buying jerseys

And he's most certainly not a soldier.

I'm a bit confused, Njoku is unhappy but why? I thought Stefanski was well known for using a 2 tight end set? So, Njoku should still get plenty of targets but I guess he feels differently. Ok, if he doesn't want to be here, then trade him for a 3rd rounder and move on. No point in wasting a roster spot with someone who does not want to be here.

I'm still convinced it has nothing to do with Njoku,, I think it's because he changed agents and Rosenhouse is trying to get him a better deal...

Not quite.
Rosenhus is not making anything with his new client.
A new deal and the agent gets his 10%,or however much.This is more about the agent than the player.

It's probably some of both. Why change agents if satisfied?


I think both David and his agent know we don't plan to sign him again, and aren't going to do it at a large figure if we did, and Hooper is going to get most of the TE looks. Add in a 4th round TE selection, time to move one.


I don't blame him, it is just business. He just doesn't fit the template anymore, we don't fit his.

Shake hands and move on.

Can we trade him to the XFL?

Don’t trade him, set the precedent.

You sign to play in Cleveland, you come to play. A precedent is worth the 5th round pick.

Yjat sounds excessive for him. Jump on it if it happens. So we are looking for someone who will way overpay. Apparently Rosenhaus (sp.?) wants a payday for them. I would see a respectable offer as OK; just can't imagine a premium like this. Not sure I would be too concerned about his over performance bumping up the pick. I don't see that he has the package to realize that.
Or he can sit as much as he wants this year. He is used to being in the doghouse. With the virus factor, he is a dandy backup already in place. Just don't want him and his agent to blow things up because he wants to leave.

That sounds great. I am just not sure how much he is going to play. Hooper has the position locked. I have a feeling Harrison Bryant is going to get plenty of work as the 2nd TE.

If David catches 1.5 balls a game on 3 targets a game he will be lucky. When you are a receiver, you don't want to just be running wind sprints all game long.

I think I'd be ok taking a 4th/conditional 3rd for him. A coach/GM could fall in love with his measurables and that he hasn't totally flamed out. Give him a bunch of targets to go with the contract-year motivation, and he could put together a big season.

One never knows, but I doubt any 3rd rounder. Maybe a 5th, conditional 4th.

I rewatched the Atlanta v Browns game from 2018. Man Hooper was a nightmare for our D. He had like 11 catches and a TD. I hope he plays as well for us as he did against us.

You can never have too many good players.

There's no reason to trade Njoku.

Bingo. What if Hooper gets hurt and we are down to our rookie tight end and a bunch of no names? Then we are going to be pissed we have a fifth round pick instead of Njoku.

I think Njoku is worth keeping if only for passing down targets inside the 10 yard line. He could end up the season with only 12-15 receptions, but it would be a good year if 5-6 were TDs.

What does one statement have to do with the other?

The guy has 9 TD catches in his career. Now we are looking for 6 this season?

I just don't think he is all that good. I'd like to see Steven Carlson play over him.

I want to see more.

I just think Njoku's physical skills create mismatches in the redzone, especially with end zone targets. At the very least, the defense has to account for him which might open things up for Hooper, Landry, Beckham, et al in passing situations or for play-action runs by Chubb or Hunt.

Hooper is a very good route runner and has good hands. He had a lot of chemistry with Ryan, which he needs to develop with Baker. IMO he’s a great pickup

Carlson is actually someone I was intrigued with as well.

That was funny.

Did anyone ever come up with a justification for insinuating Njoku might want to leave because of Baker?

Or are some posters just allowed to start rumors and make up schtick?

Stop being combative.

Just trying to be fair and equitable on a board where some posters get very uppity about others posting speculative thoughts without qualifying.

David has more talent than any TE on our roster (including Hooper) but unless me matures and gets his head on right he will not have anywhere near the success on the field.

We've seen this far too often when potential never reaches production.

It happens every year in all sports.

Agree with GM - Njoku has elite physicality. He's never lived up to his potential. I guess reality and history would probably indicate that if he hasn't done it yet he's unlikely to - but as TE2 I just think he's got soooo much opportunity to create huge challenges for the defense that he's a must keep.

It certainly does. Where I lived growing up I saw the perfect example of when the opposite of that happens as well. Pete Rose was a guy who just worked his ass of when given limited physical skills. Anyone can have an opinion of what they think of his gambling scandal but it would be hard to argue he didn't earn his nickname of "Charlie Hustle".

Some people get enamored by highlight reels and promotional videos in terms of skill set. What many do is underestimate the value of a tireless work ethic and dedication.

I sent a PM to Purp. during camp last season and said Carlson had really caught my eye. He just seamed to catch everything .

Whatever it is, it is. Talent or not, he is pretty less than average.

I just want better numbers from about everyone, including Stefanski.

Go. Browns!

Go Browns!

Some people say stats are for losers, and in some cases I agree. They don't always tell the whole story.

Wins and losses are stats, so I agree. I want Kevin's stats much better than Freddie's, Hue's, Shurmer, heck, name just about any coach we have had the last 20 or so years. Butch had a few decent seasons.

Williams had pretty good stats, but we didn't elect to hire him.

It's such a strange era. Do you honor his request or do you force him to stay? I would pick Njoku over Carlson if I had the choice.

Probably so, but I think Carlson has upside.

I think the only answer is Team First.
I think that unless his wonderful new agent can find a team willing to part with enough assets to make it a no-brainer for us, you keep him.

He will either get his head on right, become a professional, and work on his hands and his craft and ball out, or he won't. The one earns him a big contract in a year or two at the least, the other earns him what he's earned so far - not much.

You're either on this train or you're not.

You are right. My feeling is we aren't going to give him a big contract since we just signed Hooper to a big contract. I'd take a 4th rounder and be happy. I don't see a monster season. I see Hooper getting the looks.

He has 2 years remaining. That has value. Getting in to the last year doesn't.

I guess it's all moot. We aren't going to play this season.

If he doesn't want to be here, and gives any indication he won't put in the effort. Then let him go.

I know it is tough with limited talent and roster limitations, but damn, if they keep him and he acts up or doesn't give effort, then I hope they move him back to 4th or 5th stringer and let him watch from the bench or better yet, from home.

Just checking back in to find out if there was any validity to the suggestion that njoku might want to leave because of Baker???? Or does that fall into the wild, untrue, unsubstantiated agenda driven BS catagorey?

Just checking back in to find out if there was any validity to the suggestion that njoku might want to leave because of Baker???? Or does that fall into the wild, untrue, unsubstantiated agenda driven BS catagorey?

I already told you it's Tretter!

Thus far it seems to be the latter of the two.

Your like 60,000,00 out in left field bro.

He's not asking for himself...

The last or next to last thing David is asking for has nothing to do with David. It has everything to do with what his team thinks they can suck others out of.

From a socially distancing perspective, that ain't all bad. But as someone said, I'm merely trying to validate a rumor someone else suggested.

Rumors run ramped. The truth runs much deeper.

Are u really this naive ... i hope so cause your better than the alternative ... at least u used to be ...

Playing in to the stalkers hand ... BRAVO ...

Yep I am that naive. But I am also 100 percent correct, so what's your question bro?

No question ... just an observation ... Here’s another one now that you’ve made it clear ... it’s a real shame you’ve decided to play along with the stalker ...

WTF are you talking about????? I told you the truth so what in the hell are you taking about bro?

This how one gets to go play in Canada, I imagine. Too much noise endnote enough poise. Sit a season out!

Vitamin Pine can straighten out a number of issues.

Hey there Diam, I've missed your personal attacks. Good to see you again. Hope that you call me a stalker when all I wanted to do is clarify a post and it's meaning. The Post in question implied that njoku might want to leave the team because of Baker. Apparently that's the kind of pure football talk that you think is cool.

You have brought this up several times. Can you show us the direct quote of someons saying that "Njoku might want to leave because of Baker?"

Dude, you are a trouble-maker who tries to get others to gang up on another person. That is why you get called a stalker. I try hard to ignore you on this forum, but that isn't good enough for you. You continually stir-up trouble and resort to outright lies.

Not at all.... I asked you directly to qualify your post where you insinuated that Njoku might be leaving coz of a player .... You've been back several times and never responded ... Probably because you know it's such an untenable position to take. Full of hate for the QB you can't wait to leave the Browns. Anyone anyone and EVERYONE on this board who knows you and your disdain for Baker knows that was your insinuation. You can try to claim otherwise but that'd be a straight lie.

Your post

My response.

Okay, where did I say that Njoku wants to leave because of Baker? I didn't. You just made that up to try and start another fight. You have brought it up several times throughout the thread. This is why you are called a stalker and a liar.


There was talk on the thread about Njoku wanted out going back to last season. Someone mentioned Kitchens as the possible reason. I said Kitchens was long gone and provided an alternative explanation.

I tried to ignore your questions because I know how you are. You are looking for another fight and I was trying to avoid one. But, you brought it up over and over and over again. It got to the point where you fabricated the Baker part. I never said that.

So now, I have wasted all of this time because you just can't let things go. Again, that is how you got the stalker label.

I'll try again. Please leave me alone. I don't like you. I don't want to talk to you. I'm tired of you lying about the things I say. Nothing productive comes from our conversations.

So you want to try and claim it isn't Baker that you at referring to... hilarious. Please name the player then.

I'm sure it's Seibert....

I see it differently.

My guess is it is Hooper. Maybe Vers' wording was a bit off. I don't think it is because Njoku doesn't like Hooper. He just doesn't like we brought him in because he knows Hooper is going to get double or triple the looks.

It's hard to play your way in to a big contract when you get 25 targets a season. Catching 18 balls a season isn't going to cut it.

I have it on a real quality source, that Nojoku wants to leave because he doesn't like the detergent they use to clean the uniforms, and they never have enough cottage cheese in the buffet,

Well there you have it, folks!

Are you saying that's what caused the Tide to turn?

He was in Texas for the workout with Baker and some of the Receivers... So, unless something happened down there, I think this is BS

If he wants traded so be it. But the Browns would be wise to keep him. They extended him and plan on him being a contributor. His new agent ain't getting paid until he gets a new contract. He wants to go somewhere he will be the feature TE, I don't blame him. His next contract will be based on production, with Hooper, no way is he the feature TE.

Just Rosenhaus 101 action. New client and he has to make waves. He has to prove to his client he is working for him by creating this controversy and get that lucrative extension before the Browns make too many 2nd contracts and start to become frugal with their money. We drafted his replacement, Harrison Bryant...so we only need Njoku for this season and then save money by trading him or just let him go. Hopefully he will have a great season and we could get a 2nd for him.

jmho

But if he has a great season, why would you want to get rid of him?

And if he has a great season, would he want to leave? Assuming we would pay him...which we have a lot of mouths to feed.

Because we signed Hooper. You can only allocate so much money to the TE position,

Your off base bro ... this one is real real simple .... it has zero to do with Drew ... Njoku wanted out and he hired the best at doing that ... Njoku may be lazy but he ain’t stupid ... the menZas on here thinking David hired Drew on a whim and had no idea this is what would happen are simply having a real real bad math day ... *L* ...

I’m no Njoku fan (his hands SUCK) and no fan of folks not living up to their contracts and asking out ... this is one case that I’d make an exception for ... the math is real simple here ... it has nothing to do with him being afraid of competition or his agent shaking things up ...

On his best day Njoku is the 4th option ... ON HIS BEST DAY .... on 2 and 3 receiver sets he’s not seeing the field ... he has a SHOT to be on the field when its 4 wide ... A SHOT ... u also have Higgs and Hunt as possible 4ths and Njoku better hope People’s isn’t the real deal or he can be thrown in the mix ... and dawgs ... u really want 2 TE’s on the field when there’s 4 wide sets? ...

IF we go 4 wide and Njoku is one of the 4 wides that means Hunt will be in the backfield ... that would make Njoku the 5th best receiver on the field ...

Njoku will have MINIMAL OPPORTUNITIES with the skill set talent we have ... and w/o opportunity its real hard to produce ... there’s 31 other teams out there that will offer him more opportunity .... dude that thinks KC has more than us is delusional ... but KC would be a horrible landing spot for Njoku also .. *L* ...

It makes all the sense in the world for him to want out ...

Oh .. almost forgot ... some say Kev utilizes the heck out of his TE’s .. LAST YEAR he did ... his 3rd WR last year was a bum ... they didn’t have one ... he also lost Theilan in week 2 or 3 ... he came back and played in la few games ... one game he lasted like 3 snaps ... he was never right again and he missed a lot of games ... After Diggs his 2 best receivers happened to be TE’s ...

So unless OBJ or VG go down ... Kev’s TE’s will not have near the volume of targets they did last year ...

I agree. He would be the last option. When he plays, he is going to be a decoy dummy running around all afternoon.

You just sprint up the seam to clear things out to open it up for the guy who is going to get the ball. Do that all day long, then try to block a bit for the other guy after he catches the ball or is handed the ball.

It seemed rather obvious to me with the signing of Hooper that the new powers that be had determined to move on from Njoku. If he had turned out to be worthy of his draft selection they would never have signed Hooper.

You don't invest that high on a TE if you see big money, future plans on a former first round selection currently on your roster.

As much as some Browns fans believe in Njoku's potential, the current FO seems to have come to the conclusion he was never going to reach it.

Building on that...

I won't be surprised in the least if he starts losing those precious snaps to our rookie TE. Dude can block, and with Hooper being the undisputed #1 with his reliable hands, and our running game being what it is, it won't take many half-hearted or poorly executed running plays by Njoku for the rookie to start eating into his playing time.

Same could be said about the WR position.

It can be said about any position or position group. You can allocate more at WR. Not so much at TE. You don't keep two TE's make $10 mil plus.

David is not making that, but he wants to make that but his chances are pretty slim if he only gets 30 targets a year the next two years.

Hooper is proven. Baker is going to throw to him. Hooper might lead the team in receptions. It's quick read, and Baker is good at that, and Hooper is good at getting open quickly. Boom, Boom, take your 6 to 14 yards and do it again. Break a tackle or get a block, maybe 30 yards.

I am good with that.

According to PFF, Hooper put up most of his numbers in garbage time. He also had an experienced qb throwing to him who is able to read coverages and sticks in the pocket.

Too early to be making predictions about who is going to lead the team in targets.

Which is a good starting point that could mean he is overpaid.

I was a bit shocked when I saw we made him the highest paid TE in the league, but it is what it is. I'm not going to complain about it unless he sucks. Hopefully, there is no correlation between the garbage time numbers and his abilities. I don't know a ton about him, but I used to take him in DFF quite a bit.

No it isn't. It's never too early to predict. You don't predict after the season. Right?

On the flip side Atlanta's defense was putrid for the first half of the season, and below average overall so Atlanta was playing from behind a lot last year.

Because he will leave us as a FA and get silly money from somebody. We will not break the bank for a TE just like we would not for a above average but not great MLB...These are not positions you build a team around unless we are talking best ever types.

I wish he does well.
1. That means our O is clicking big time.
2. Increases his value as stated he's here for only this season. Its a matter of letting him go into FA you know Rosenhaus will test the waters regardless what we offer. But we will not break the bank on a TE. So hopefully somebody will trade and sign him rather than compete in FA.

jmho

with out a doubt its all about the money and he's not going to get it here. I don't know where you got the impression I was saying otherwise.

There is his thoughts and actions and then there is the Browns thoughts and actions.

I was discussing the Browns thoughts and actions. Again we drafted his replacement and economically a big time advantage for the Browns.

We need Njoku for this season and that is it.

Njoku's side is of course about him getting a big time contract in the near future. He's not going to get that here ergo his demand to get traded. But in the end unless we get a sweet deal we are not going to comply. My post had nothing to do with Njoku being dumb or smart. It had to do with the reality of our salary cap. We are not going to break the bank for LBs TEs, RBs or in the future WRs. Probably not DTs or Safeties unless they are in the All Pro category.

QB, LT, Edge Rushers and Cover Corners...that is who we will sign to lucrative 2nd contracts.

Schobert, darn good player but we are not going to pay 10 mil a year for an above average but not great LB.

So what I'm saying (don't know how I'm remotely "OFF BASE") is Njoku is not going to get the money he wants from the Browns...point blank. He hired Rose to get him that contract. Good for him and all the best. He plays for us this year and I hope he does great. This way maybe we can get a 2nd rounder for him. Either way he is gone after this year. Smart move by the kid, I agree with you.

Again, if he has a great season, why not keep him. We'll find a way.. Don't forget, the CAP increases each year.. More in the bucket to spread around.

I might be wrong, but I thought CAP was tied to revenues. There is no way, if the 2020 NFL season is played, that teams will be raking in the money like in most years. If CAP is tied to revenues, I doubt it will go up for 2021.

I don't get what this kind of message is supposed to do.

Damage control for when his trade request ploy crashes?

Trade ain’t going down, ain’t trying to get booed in the first game of the season

Booed by the cardboard cutouts in the seats?

i see there’s this new app where fans can vote to cheer/boo during games haha should be interesting

I couldn't imagine what that would be like with our fans.

??

I think the message is a simple one that many fans have a hard time understanding often times.

Football is a business. You can love the fan base and a city, but that has nothing to do with the business side. Often times fans have trouble separating the two.

j/c....
as stated he is here for just one season. Trade or not.

jmho

Isn't he under contract for 2 more with the Browns having already picked up his 5th year option?

So are you thinking the Browns dump him after he stinks OR trade him for higher value if he does well so either way will be gone?

Respectfully, you impress me as being fairly high on the skeptic meter. So, even if Njuko has a warm place in his heart for Cleveland he made a conscious choice to voice that feeling now. There was a purpose for making a public statement, what was that reason? He wasn't just emoting. He could have texted his man-crush on Cleveland at any point in his tenure here. I might have chosen to do it after being absolved of involvement in the rape that took place in the apartment he and Higgins shared in 2018. Why not then? Why now?

Just a guess here because there really isn't any way to know for sure.

But it's just my opinion that after Njoku asked for a trade and was thus far denied, he may have felt he needed to square it with the fans..

probably so.

I'm a hard no David, you have done nothing in this league. Nobodies can't demand trades and I would not set that precedent as a new FO, if I am the FO, you can sit out if you want.

I understand the thinking, but no, I try to trade him. I would need more than a bag of footballs, and I wouldn't do the work.

Let them find a viable trade partner. Set some parameters, like no in division trade unless a 3rd rounder is involved. Let them find the market. Give them a few positions you would consider in a player for player deal.

On second thought, screw the player for player. I think we already have a extra pick or two for next year. Maybe a 5th and 7th rounder. You can use those to trade up a few slots if "your guy" is on the board.

I would probably bite on a conditional 3rd. Depending on the draft, you can get a decent player there, or use it as significant ammo in a trade-up. For a guy that's clearly not in your future plans and is getting pushed down the pecking order for his positional group. Especially for a team that has an obvious need and where you're confident he'll get the targets. Dude has all the potential, and coaches have taken on far more questionable projects in the past. I don't think 4th-to-3rd type trade for Njoku is all that far-fetched.

I'm certainly not desperate to cave to his request. Dude has absolute zero leverage.

Personally I think a conditional 3rd is high for the guy, but hey, you never know? When it comes to leverage, we don't have all that much either. We have it over Joke, but not other teams.

Even a 5th can turn in to a 4th rounder. A 3rd and 5th can maybe get you back in to the bottom of the 2nd. I am not viewing a draft value chart, so whatever the combinations, it gives you the ability to move up.

Also, you never know how the draft pans out. You might have 12 guys you like in the 6th round. Just keep the picks and 1-2 of the guys you like are bound to be there. You can get good players in every round.

They may not be superstars, but you can find quality players who can help the team and maybe become starting quality.

Respectfully there's really no need to make a public statement until the fan base and media are vilifying you.

The way I view the value is this: You aren't likely to find a kid with his talent, athleticism, age, and upside after the 2nd round. If you wanted to draft a player like him, that's where you'd be looking, so that's where my asking price would be.

And, we have all the leverage... he's here and under contract. We don't have to give him away; if someone wants him, it's on them to pry him away.

I understand the reasoning. Somewhere teams are going to look at what he has done in the league thus far.

and the salesman redirects their view to how young he is, how coachable, and how much upside he has.


We got a 1st for Trent Richardson. We can land at least a 2nd for David Njoku.

I am not a twitter guy. Maybe he was getting blow back on his twitter account?

Only if we trade him to Jim "Quaalude King" Irsay and the Colts!

Or, maybe BOB and the Texans?

I'm not a Twitter guy either. But here's what I was talking about...

David Njoku Calls Out Browns Fans With Strong Message

Since requesting a trade, Cleveland Browns tight end David Njoku has been hearing it from the team’s fans on social media, so much so that the former first-round pick addressed it.

“Haha I love the hate it’s that 93 in the gas station for me,” Njoku wrote on Twitter on Wednesday.

Well, as one commenter put it, if you kicks the dawgs, they will bite. After an offseason where he seemed set on being apart of the future in Cleveland, Njoku fired his agent and quickly demanded a trade out of town.

“Browns TE David Njoku and his agent Drew Rosenhaus asked today for the team to trade him,” ESPN’s Adam Schefter said in a tweet. “The Browns told Njoku they would like to keep him, but Rosenhaus told them he’s intent on a trade. They want a trade before training camp.”

“It is in David’s best interest to find a new team at this time,” Rosenhaus told Schefter.

What most Browns fans seemed peeved by was the fact that Njoku addressed the competition he faced with the addition of Austin Hooper to the roster and he seemed game for it.

“Nahhhh man cmon I love competition,” Njoku wrote on Twitter in a now deleted tweet responding speculation that he would want a trade more than ever. “We’ll push each other and get better together.”

Njoku has also had good things to say about new Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski, but things must have changed during the team’s virtual offseason program.

“I’m really excited. He’s a guy who loves his tight ends,” Njoku said of Stefanski in April. “And we just got a new one, Austin Hooper, who was a big-time get. We are going to have a lot of fun this year.”

Njoku is seeking a bounce-back year after suffering a fractured wrist in Week 2 last season. He battled back into the lineup in Week 14, but dropped a ball that turned into an interception, leading him to be a healthy scratch the next two weeks. He suited up for the Browns final game of the season, but played just four snaps. In all, he had just five catches for 41 yards and one touchdown last season.

“It was pretty hectic last year for sure,” Njoku said on a Browns ‘Working From Home’ segment. “We’re not going to go into right now. That’s behind us. I’m just really excited for this upcoming year.”

https://heavy.com/sports/cleveland-browns/2020/07/browns-david-njoku-calls-out-trolls/

General comment...

For those thinking that NFL teams are going to pay a high price for "what might be" with Njoku, he now has an NFL track record. Potential means a lot in the draft, not so much when you have a track record that is proof that you never managed to reach anywhere close to that potential.

Yeah I get the whole "get value" but this team is primed to win now. I am not trading away a 1st round pick for pennies on the dollar because he is butthurt that we brought a veteran in at his position because he has not produced.

He wants to hold out, so be it, not a franchise player.

Njoku being a first round pick has nothing to do with his value.

Ryan Grigson is with us now .... isn't he?

I hope you are right.

Yes......dammit.

I'm sure there are at least a couple teams that are a single injury away from giving up a little too much for the likes of Njoku.

I think you missed the point.

So isTrent Richardson available? Kidding.

State the point again. This exchange seems to me to wobble. Njoku's feelings are a non-factor IMO. Peeved or not, happy or not, shut up and soldier, soldier. If not, sit.

This is too much of a production over this little success. And hang a silly price tag on him and go about your business of The Browns winning more games. Not sure he can dress out at his position if he can't manage his 'tude.

I agree there was no need for a comment but he made the comment. Their was intention in making the comment. Maybe I didn't get what you meant when you said fans don't undertand the difference between love for the fans and the city and the business of sport. I think most fans do understand, in politics his comment would be clearly labled spin.

j/c:

I saw the twitter post but not the subsequent comments from this board as a result. My take-- He was told (with my own edits of course)...

"No, we aren't trading you. We just picked up your option that gives us two years with you. We picked it up for a reason. We sincerely like you and your upside because of what you did in 2018 and your age. Hell, Hooper could down and we would need a replacement. Even if not the case, Stefanski loves his TEs. Just try to get better at blocking, ok?"

That seems plausible. It falls into the same category that I suggested. The trade is not going thru and damage needs to be mitigated. Seems pretty straight forward.

So what you guys are saying is there's a possibility the Browns manage to trade Njoku to the Browns for a 1st RD pick?

If we ever needed a guy like Sashi around to blow up a trade....

Or perhaps you are. In one statement it is talked about not giving a first rounder away for pennies on the dollar. In the next it is said he isn't a franchise player.

Value is determined by production, and to some degree projected future production. The fact Joke was a first rounder doesn't make him more valuable to other teams.

I concede the guy is still young and that could boost his value some. Purp pointed that out to me some posts back, but the fact we drafted him in the first round doesn't mean squat to other teams. It means something us. You like 1st round players to play like 1st round players. It just hasn't happened.

Wow, yall really in here splitting hairs. There is absolutely a perception to his value being a former 1st round pick. If you don't think that or see MANY former 1st round picks getting FAR MORE second chances than other guys, I don't know what to tell you.

j/c

I find it odd how stupid some fans think players are in terms of getting in trouble and saying the wrong things on one hand, then on the other hand seem to think they're wonderful marketing strategists.

Also j/c

Njoku is as young as some rookies this season. You're essentially getting a rookie with 3 years NFL experience when you're looking at Njoku. He was also injured and/or "benched" for most of one of those seasons. I have friends who tell me, trade him, he's done nothing and I have to laugh. His career is just getting started, it's not half over.

Njoku has also had the same poor coaching the rest of the team has had. I do think there are teams definitely interested in trading for him, however I think his worth to us is more than anything we'd get in any trade.

I think teams considering trading for him will look at what he's done with the opportunities he has had. Not the opportunities he didn't have.

I think we should trade all players who don't perform well in their first few years.

Makes sense.

It's odd how people say you can't evaluate a player until their third season and now you're saying we should wait what, 4, 5 or 6?

I'm saying if guys don't play well in their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd seasons, regardless of circumstances, we should jettison them.

I don't know if I would go that far. Maybe it's just semantics. I would say better and not so much well. Like I said, you could say that's just semantics. A WR should be able to run routes better and block better in year three. A QB should have better accuracy and be able to deal with the speed of the game better.

There are certainly other contributing factors that may not see those improvements equating in the W/L column. They may not all show up on a stat sheet. There are just certain things one should see elevate due to the competition and the speed of the game.

That may not mean that a player is a finished product by the end of year three. But there are certain traits and tendencies that should be making themselves obvious.

I feel you have to take in to consideration circumstance, but I don't totally disagree with you otherwise.

In any job most of us hold or held, we have/had to pick it up in a year or so.

I mean, come on. If you are a engineer, you are expected to be able to do the math. If a brick layer you are expected to lay a level row.

You don't want a brick layer being your engineer or your engineer being your brick layer. That is going to be a screwed up project.

I wasn't actually serious.

Trade him for a 4th RD pick.

No less than a 3rd or I keep him ...

That seems fair. Really hate this biz of negotiating in the media in public. But get something for him.

We don’t HAVE to do anything.

We control the situation, unless he sits out, but then he’d only be hurting himself.

Does anyone know if he showed up?

I realize we do not HAVE to do anything while in control. But I hope that we will WANT to do something as a result to get something for him as opposed to just releasing him with no realized return. As we see more people deciding to sit out, his value may go up in our favor. I am comfortable keeping him and playing him. Up to him first.

I took that to mean he did. I suppose it could mean he was sitting at the house.

He was there. I saw a clip of him in the browns promo video as well.

[/thread]

Nice to know Drew is on board. Color me relieved.

Win! Win! Win!

Link

Browns TE David Njoku no longer wants to be traded: ‘I’m all in Cleveland. Time to work’
Updated 4:55 PM; Today 4:01 PM
Cleveland Browns vs. Tampa Bay Buccaneers preseason, August 23, 2019
Cleveland Browns tight end David Njoku salutes fans after the game. (Joshua Gunter, cleveland.com)cleveland.com

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By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns tight end David Njoku gave his own trade request the big Chief Slam and now he wants to stay with the Browns, a league source told cleveland.com.

On Saturday afternoon, he tweeted, “I’m all in Cleveland. Time to work.‘'

Njoku’s new agent, Drew Rosenhaus, had asked the Browns to trade the 2017 first-round pick on July 3rd, saying it would be in the tight end’s “best interests to find a new team,” but Njoku has had a change of heart, the source said.


Later, Rosenhaus said in an email response that Njoku “has had some good meetings with the new Browns organization including GM Andrew Berry, and he has decided to give the team his full commitment right now and go from there.”

He’s come into camp with a great attitude and in great shape after working hard all offseason, including attending Camp Mayfield in Austin, Tex. in May. He’s happy to be back with his teammates, and feels wanted by the Browns. What’s more, he believes that coach Kevin Stefanski really is eager to work with him, as Stefanski said on a Zoom call Thursday.


“My stance hasn’t changed,’' Stefanski said. “The organization’s stance hasn’t changed in that we believe in David, excited to work with him. I will get to finally be in the same room as him this weekend as he is coming in for physicals and then get out on the field with him Monday.’'


The Browns made it clear from the moment Rosenhaus said it would be in Njoku’s “best interests to find a new team” that they had no plans of trading Njoku, and wanted him to play a key role in the two-tight end heavy scheme this season.

Njoku received tremendous backlash from Browns fans after his trade request, and was dismayed by that. He responded July 20th on Twitter.



Njoku apparently felt he’d have to take a back seat to free agent signee Austin Hooper, whom the Browns made the NFL’s highest-paid tight end at $10.5 million a year. They also drafted Florida Atlantic tight end Harrison Bryant in the fourth round and still have Stephen Carlson and Pharoah Brown at the position.

One of the Browns’ three 2017 first-round picks along with Myles Garrett and Jabrill Peppers (traded in 2019 to the Giants), Njoku spent all of 2019 in Freddie Kitchens’ doghouse and was unhappy here last season. It seemed, however, that it was water under the bridge when the Browns hired Kevin Stefanski as head coach and Andrew Berry as GM.

“I have been pretty consistent this offseason in terms of we still have a ton of belief in David,” Berry said as he wrapped up the draft in April. “He’s very talented.

“Obviously, he was not on the field much last year, but he’s a guy with outstanding physical tools, he has proven NFL production and we still think the future is very bright with him here. David has always been and continues to be in our plans, and we’re going to continue to add competition all across the roster.”


Njoku suffered a broken wrist in Week 2 against the Jets and ultimately underwent surgery in October after initially planning to let it heal on its own. He did so to get back on the field, but when he returned for the final four games of the season, he landed on Kitchens’ bad side, and never recovered.

Njoku was a healthy scratch for two of his last four games, and caught only one pass on three targets in the two games he did play. In the season finale at Cincinnati, he wasn’t targeted at all. All told, he was limited to five catches on 10 targets for 41 yards and a TD in his four outings in 2019.

But Berry was here in 2017 when the Browns traded up to No. 29 to draft Njoku out of Miami, and has always seen his potential. In fact, he didn’t hesitate to pick up Njoku’s fifth-year option in May worth about $6.4 million for 2021. If Njoku plays as well as the Browns hope he does, he could be considered for an extension either during this season or after.


Njoku, who must still become more consistent catching the ball, showed great promise his second season, catching 56 passes for 639 yards and four TDs. He’s not a superstar tight end the caliber of a Rob Gronkowski, but a solid receiver and blocker who should fare well in Stefanski’s scheme. Last season, Stefanski used two tight ends 57% of the time, more than any team in the NFL.

What’s more, Njoku has experience and timing with Mayfield -- a tremendous asset in this Covid-19 marred season. Mayfield won’t have any preseason games to get his rhythm down with Hooper and Bryant, and only 14 padded practices spanning the final three weeks of training camp.

J/C I think our new regime just won the 1st game of chicken/ staring contest etc. David realized his best chance to be successful was going to be in Cleveland. I still think he is TE 1/b in our offensive scheme. He should have a good year, he all ready has chemistry with Baker and I think Baker trusts him. Not sure if they are going to split him out wide as I heard on Sirius FM, but his athleticism and speed do make him a mismatch for any Defense. Glad to hear he is in the fold and I hope we see a career year.

I count this a win for the triumvirate runing the FO. I think this is a good decision by Njoku. I'm pleased that the team and David took the high road and didn't make this a messy public spectacle.

Yeah it's so nice to see a distraction handled and quashed before the season, instead of festering and getting worse all year leading to the player leaving next season.

Well done FO.

I agree... unless we were blown away with a trade offer there's no reason to trade David... glad they seem to have worked it out... now let's get to work

I think all Njoku needed was to be back in the building and REALLY make sure Kitchens is no longer here.

Yeah, that's it.

JC



Cool, nobody wanted the guy, so he needs to be all in.

Welcome back David. No hard feelings.



Get it done.

Good call on this one. Might be silly, but we are long on TE, so how about Njoku or other folks that might be a matchup issue get into a single or double slot. Just think it could be a real headache come time to move the sticks, kind of like a "heavy/hands" set.

David Njoku wisely changes his mind; now needs to mature and produce for the Cleveland Browns

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/08...and-browns.html

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio – David Njoku played two collegiate seasons at Miami, where he caught 64 total passes in 26 games.

His final season with the Hurricanes featured 43 receptions, eight for TDs. His was an Honorable Mention pick for All-Atlantic Coast Conference.

That’s Honorable Mention All-ACC, not Honorable Mention All-American.

The ACC coaches picked THREE all-conference teams with three different tight ends, Njoku not making any of them. He was one of two honorable mentions.

Why mention Njoku’s solid but hardly spectacular college career?

Because when the Browns made him a first-round pick (No. 29 overall) in the 2017 draft, it wasn’t primarily due to what Njoku did in college.

It was a projection based on potential.

At 6-foot-4 and 246 pounds, he looked like a future NFL tight end. He was a high school state high-jump champion in Florida (7-foot-1). He was recruited by most major schools. He visited Ohio State, but turned down the Buckeyes to play tight end for Miami.

So you should have the picture of an athlete who makes coaches dream simply by walking into the room.

THE AGE FACTOR

Njoku was only 20 at the time of the draft.

NFL analytics likes young players who already have a few years of college experience. The idea is they can get into the NFL weight room and be taught by pro coaches as the player grows up physically and emotionally.

At the NFL combine, he ran 4.64 in the 40-yard dash. His vertical leap was 37 inches. He was among the top three tight ends in all the various drills. His body fat was 6%.

The NFL Network had him going at No. 18. ESPN’s Mel Kiper projected Njoku as the 20th pick. While his blocking skills were questioned, he was “a physical freak” according to some draft experts.

The Browns selecting him at No. 29 looked like a good move, at least based on the predraft projections.

THEN CAME THE MONEY

Consider that a guy who was only Honorable Mention All-ACC still was drafted in the first round. He signed a 4-year, $9.5 million deal, including a $5 million signing bonus, according to overthecap.com.

After his first three NFL seasons, what we see is a player who has the physical gifts to be a quality NFL tight end, but who hasn’t done enough on the field to match it.

That’s why I was very critical of Njoku demanding a trade in June after a season where he suffered a broken wrist and a concussion. He played four games and had five catches. The previous coaching staff wondered about his work ethic.

His best season was 2018, when he caught 56 passes, four for TDs. There were moments when he looked like a first-round pick as he made several sensational leaping catches.

But he also led all tight ends with eight dropped passes. Profootballfocus.com rated him 27th out of 28 starting tight ends in pass blocking in 2018.

Attention to detail was an issue.


TIME TO MATURE

Njoku wasn’t happy when the Browns signed free-agent tight end Austin Hooper to a 4-year, $44 million deal ($23 million guaranteed).

Njoku thought he was losing his starting job to Hooper. He had trouble comprehending that new coach Kevin Stefanski used at least two tight ends in an NFL-high 57% of his formations last year in Minnesota.

Furthermore, GM Andrew Berry was part of the front office that drafted Njoku in 2017, and Berry even picked up Njoku’s $6 million option for 2021.

My thought was Njoku should be humbled that the Browns still want him in their plans and showed it with the 2021 contract option.

Njoku now says he’s “all in” with the the Browns after meetings with Stefanski and Berry. The trade request is gone.

Some of those who know Njoku see him as a nice young man, but immature. His opinion of himself as a player doesn’t match what he demonstrates on the field.

With the Browns and a coach who is almost obsessed with squeezing the most out of the tight ends, Njoku is in the ideal spot to finally show the Browns were right by making him a first-round pick.

But that won’t happen until he begins to realize the days of him being a prized prospect are over. It’s time to produce.

From article:



This.

It’s time to get what we can for him and move on.

So he's taking back the takeback of his original trade demand?

Dude just got back from injury and had a pretty crappy drop yesterday.

He's an after thought in the game planning - and insurance.

Sadly we won't get remotely close to what it cost to acquire him. I'm very 'meh' on whether he stays or goes. I wanted him to be a stud so much ... and he has not been close.

I don’t blame him. He’s a free agent after this year and isn’t getting very much work on Sundays. I would want to maximize my value too. The problem is he has underperformed to the point that any value that he brings to the team is greater than the value we would receive in a trade.

Hate to trade him, but if we can get starting Safety then go for it ...

Are there teams with an extra almost-starter-caliber FS hanging around?

It's probably true, but we should probably wait to hear Njoku say it instead of relying solely on Mary Kay's "league source."

With stories like this I always assumed that "league source" was reporter-speak for "the player's agent".

I thought we picked up his 5th year option for next year?

We did.

The fifth year option is not guaranteed. We can cut him and he gets nothing (which is the most likely outcome right now).

Minnesota who are 1-5

I don’t blame him, but he’s been nonexistent for too long for us. I dont see much value ... at least if he stays here we have an experienced 3rd TE

it probably is time to trade him for a LB/HamSandsiwch/FS

The problem with Njoku is the same problem Vernon has. Although both are talented they can't stay on the field. This diminishes their value.

As other posters have said, why do I get the sinking feeling that wherever he lands, the light will go on, he'll grow hands and he'll be a beast for someone else?

Maybe not.

Hope I'm wrong, and I'm just remembering some of the other Browns who have moved on to other teams.

No matter. his days here were numbered anyway.

Hope there's not a couple injuries at TE.

When it comes to MKC, "league source" can mean "something I made up".

I saw the way Njoku and some other receivers looked at Baker last week after Baker came up to them on the sideline after throwing that ridiculous pick to number 58. It wasn't good.

Today, and this might mean absolutely nothing because they are talking heads, but on First Take this morning, Stephen A. Smith and Max Kellerman were discussing Baker and they said that OBJ and Landry should demand trades because Baker is holding them back. Guys only have a certain number of "prime" years and you gotta make your jack when you can.

Yes, it is sensationalism to an extent and it's a "hot take," but I've been wondering about this myself. We've seen this play out before w/QBs like Blake Bortles.

We are loaded w/talent and I hope that it doesn't come down like this. The trouble is that even if Baker is holding those guys back and they don't believe in him, I doubt Keenum is good enough to make a significant difference.

I feel terrible for OBJ honestly.

Guy runs open all game.

His talent is being wasted.

How many QBs would kill for a talent like that?

Ugh.

This team has a ton of talent. I hope that these guys all stick it out and either Baker improves or we go another direction next year. I don't want to lose the likes of OBJ and Landry.

We're close. Good QB, LBer, and S play and we could be a dominant team.

I hope all the guys realize that, but I do get that you gotta put up numbers when you can to get the cash.

On Njoku’s twitter account he says he didnt request a trade. Even though MKC said right under his post he did. So who knows.

Thanks for the info. Not telling anyone what to think, but I'm going to believe Njoku until he proves otherwise.

j/c

oh man...




she is the worst! can we trade her?

Mark Kay has long skated on her behavior.

So, to play Devil's Advocate... Mary Kay's original tweet, the latest, and Njoku's can all be truthful. Her tweet did not claim that Njoku told her that. Njoku would be correct that he did not say that to her, and she can correctly affirm that this was not said to her by him.

That said... Mary Kay's reporting is garbage. She is Tony Grossi who is Roger Brown. They are muckrakers and trash peddlers. Period. The only real question is whether this is learned traits of the business, or if the PD directs them to conduct their column in this manner.

Either way, nothing written by any of them should EVER be construed as gospel. They've proven this over and over and over.

What did MKC say about Cam Heyward? He sounds upset, as if his character was questioned.

Good points all the way around. She said something like according to an NFL source when talking about Njoku. She did not say Njoku said that. On the other hand, the rest of your post is also true.

A lot of NFL guys aren't good speakers. I get what he meant by "...good punishment..." He used the word "good" to mean legal. He wasn't talking about being dirty.

It's a man's game. When I was in college, I was coming off of a concussion and an ankle. At the bottom of the pile, I had dudes thumping my head and twisting my foot on every single pile up where there were multiple players. I didn't even complain because it was what it was. In fact, it just provided extra motivation to kick their asses.

J/c

I agree w/Vers and Rish and others: the skill guys have to be frustrated. Baker’s basically the worst QB in the NFL (despite being given a King’s ransom of talent).

The OL did not play well at all against Pitt, but Baker never raises the level of those around him. It would get tiring honestly.

In our Opener he was used then got hurt early on...4 games later he comes back and gets hurt again. How can he complain about not getting reps. He lost reps do to injury and he didn't establish himself as the Rookie progressed - The minute we drafted Bryant I stated to all that Njoku would be here for this season only and Bryant would replace him. Of course the injuries has brought that on sooner. I'm sure we would have wanted Njoku to stud out before we traded him.

jmho

I think Njoku's response tweet was very carefully worded.

That said, I'm never one to stand in the way of some good MKC bashing. I find it hilarious that she comes back with "I can confirm this 100%"... and then doesn't.

Her "confirm 100%" statement is merely saying that HE did not say that to her. He saying as much IS the confirmation. Her original tweet was her saying that "a league source" told her. Again, all can be true.

I don't know if I believe Njoku is savvy enough to have that a tweet be carefully worded in that manner.

Either way, it doesn't matter. Trading away your #3 TE isn't a big deal.

Joke can't even be considered a good decoy anymore.

Do it, Mr. Berry.

At $15-17M per year each, I would say Beckham and Landry have gotten their cash. Would it be too much to ask for Odell to keep his damn cleats on until the game is over? Or how about not throwing tantrums on the sideline when things go south, as if you are playing your ass off and its everyone else that sucks?

I’m not a huge fan of the cleat removal either. At the end of the day it’s pretty irrelevant, but it’s so petty haha.

I get it .. Baker sucks and we don’t get you the ball like we should (what was it, 2 catches for like 20 yards? That’s unacceptable). But doing that stuff just draws bad attention to yourself too

There were 8 minutes left in the game. Its not "petty" when you are, in effect, telling your teammates that you're done for the day even if they get the ball back and have to take the field again.

We talk about "culture" here all the time, and here we have a guy that younger players look to for leadership - he's a Top 5 WR in the league - and he basically said "I'm here, but I'm not one of you.".

Don’t you think the coach told him he was done for the day? A bunch of our starters got pulled.

I don't disagree with you, but on the list of issues to worry about, it's pretty low, IMO.

I hope it gets addressed, but I hope KS doesn't make a big deal out of it. It's a thin line he has to walk. The culture shouldn't condone such behavior, but at the same time Odell is going to 'Odell', and you know as long as he comes back the next day and brings it (he will), it's a bump in a bumpy road.

If OBJ took his cleats off because we were winning in a blowout what would the reaction be?

That's a strong possibility. But then it wouldn't give fans a reason to trash OBJ. So....

A completely different thread talking about a completely different topic.

You mean not the Njoku trade thread?

Touche

If Stefanski had told him he was done for the day then he missed the opportunity to set this all straight when asked about Odell's removing his cleats at his presser yesterday. What he did say was that OBJ was "understandably frustrated" by the loss. What he did not say was "I had told Odell he was done for the day.". Leaving us to assume Beckham took himself out of the game, IMO.

I hope Odell didn't take himself out of the game.

I also don't care if he did or that he took off his cleats.

Our QB is currently emasculated and not very good. The whole team knows it. Odell's actions aren't affecting morale. The team probably empathizes with him.

Emasculated is a good word. I think Baker lost his alpha mojo and confidence when we acquired OBJ. He thrives in that position of dominance and now he’s subservient.

Granted, he’s NOT been good ... but I actually do think a lot of it is mental

I'm worried about team chemistry moving forward.

I have a solution for all this.

Develop some mental toughness and play better.

A player quitting on the team 6 games in, with a 4-2 record is a problem. Even more so, if other, younger players who may look up to him agree with him. I don't care if your QB is Richard Simmons, guys like Beckham need to provide leadership especially in tough times.

It’s only Tuesday after a loss and we already have OBJ quitting on the team. I think that’s a record. Usually it’s Thursday at the earliest when we get to this point.

I don't believe this for even a second. But if it's true, that would mean that Baker is mentally very fragile.

Damn Dorsey for drafting a mentally fragile QB!

Like very NFL GM, you can damn him for some things and praise him for others.

What would you call a healthy player removing himself from a game with 8 minutes left in that game? "Understandably frustrated" (Stefanski's phrase) doesn't cut it. How about the other 21 starters on the team? You think they wanted to be out there in a 38-7 curb stomping? Maybe that [stuff] plays in the NBA, but its divisive as hell in a football locker room, IMO.

Myself, I'd have the same reaction: bush league. You are part of a TEAM, a pro team.

And a question: If Baker took his cleats off, what would your reaction be, or the boards reaction - be it in a win or a loss situation?

I can just imagine.

Seems to me there is ALWAYS ( week in and week out ) a lot of chatter ( good or bad ) about the same player !.. I wonder how that plays in a locker room .

Literally the same.

The only chatter is here on this board. No one cares.

What if he took his cleats off and put slippers on instead?

Ok .. So you got that memo from the front office ,,lol . I truly understand how the Board has a propensity to over react , but the players are not deaf and are human.. Just curious..

The NFL would fine him under improper uniform guidelines.

Slippers = fine.
knee high white socks with flip flops = release him the next day

If the players are worried about a teammate taking his cleats off instead of getting their teeth smashed in then we have bigger problems than a player taking his cleats off.

I thought this thread was "David Njoku requests trade of shoes with OBJ"