DawgTalkers.net
Posted By: bonefish Odell - 07/23/20 02:43 PM

When we traded for Odell I was over the top.

I mean like OK. Here we go. Super excited to see this guy in action.

In the end I did not see the guy I thought I would see. It was not that he was horrible. Actually his numbers were decent. But I wanted to see a monster.

He was not the guy I expected. The chemistry between him and Baker was not there. I didn't see the separation I expected. I ended seeing forced throws that were off target to a guy who was not all that open.

What happened? IMO he didn't work enough with Baker to really develop serious chemistry. That could cut both ways. Meaning Baker and Odell were both at fault. Whatever, it was not there.

He was hurt. Ends up at the end of the season, torn abductor, torn rectus abdominis on the right.

Probably a good reason to not see what I expected.

Freddie? Well in the end Freddie never got the team to perform. Poor game plans and unprepared. It also seemed like he panicked. In game calls were very questionable.

Expectations? All the crap about trading him were bogus. He is healthy. We have a new staff. I like what I am hearing from Van Pelt and KS. The OL is vastly improved.

We have a bad year behind us. Hunt and Chubb will be here for the whole season. We have upgraded the TE's.

This offense should be very hard to defense. Very versatile under every circumstance.

I don't think this all means that Odell will have huge numbers. However, I do believe he will make huge plays. When we throw his way; he will be open. And if the chemistry has been worked on Baker will reach him.

Baker? I expect to see what I believe Baker to be. An accurate passer.

I really don't give a hoot what others think about Mayfield. I expect him to be what I have seen from him in the past. A guy with a strong accurate arm.

I am hopeful that Odell will be the guy I wanted to see before. This year.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Odell - 07/23/20 02:48 PM
The big thing was his injury ... no need to overthink this ...

What separates him from the pack is his quicks, speed ... he didn’t have either last year ... he had ZERO EXPLOSION .... ZERO ... that made him a mere mortal last year ...

No need what so ever to OVERTHINK this ...
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Odell - 07/23/20 02:50 PM
Now all we need is everybody to stay healthy and the team doesn't have to lock down and forfeit games.

Undefeated except for the 9 forfeits.
Posted By: BpG Re: Odell - 07/23/20 02:50 PM
Said this a few times. He got run down in the open field by a white linebacker I can't even name on the worst team in the league last year. He was very hurt.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Odell - 07/23/20 03:39 PM
Between the injury and the Freddie Kitchens I don’t think we saw the real OBJ last year.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Odell - 07/23/20 07:43 PM

No doubt we all hope that is the case.

The one thing that I will be watching from Odell is the effort on every play.

There were times last year when I questioned his effort.

I read recently from an unnamed GM that Odell took plays off and has done so for years.

I hope that is not the case this year. Because if the ball is not thrown his way; it is important that his effort is there. Both as a blocker and decoy where if he is doubled others are open.
Posted By: BADdog Re: Odell - 07/23/20 08:28 PM
I think it was mostly his injury but Freddy didnt help.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Odell - 07/23/20 08:28 PM
I expect better. Hope he isn't one of those players whose only real effort consistently seen is in interviews. We need him to work harder than last season on his grunt work.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 07/23/20 08:32 PM
j/c

Dear Lord. For those that have never played sports and have no idea how much his injury hampered his play, I would respectfully ask you to not persist in this line of comments. For those that do know, I would be willing to bet you understand and find this sad.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Odell - 07/23/20 08:47 PM
Originally Posted By: BADdog
I think it was mostly his injury but Freddy didnt help.


Freddie being bettor definitely would have given OBJ some of his explosion back .. NO DOUBT .. rolleyes
Posted By: Spergon FTWynn Re: Odell - 07/23/20 10:17 PM
It would be hard to to do worse with such a talented group of offensive players than Freddie Kitchens did, so at least the bar will be low for Kevin Stefanski.

I think Odell will be better. This is going to be a big year for Baker. I think he's coming to a fork in the road of his career, where he's going to be considered an upper echelon QB, or just another guy. It's not to say that he can't get better after this year, but we're seeing a trend of guys coming into the league and doing well right away. If he doesn't, it might be telling of him and his abilities. Could also cause problems within the team as you have high profile players who may demand Keenum if Baker is not getting the job done, and none of us want to even entertain that idea.

And yes, it doesn't help that he's on his 3rd head coach (4 if you count GW, I don't) in 3 years, and that can be a death sentence for a young QB.

HUGE year for Baker. If Stefanski is good, then Baker will also be good, and we can put away all that bad talk about him.
Posted By: FATE Re: Odell - 07/23/20 10:35 PM
j/c...

Having him at 100% will be great. I'm also hopeful that they will give him a copy of the playbook this year.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Odell - 07/23/20 10:53 PM
I felt like it was pretty much a nightmare for every member of our offense last year. Fk was horrendous, Baker didn’t perform (for whatever reason) to the level we hoped, and there was just no chemistry
Posted By: hitt Re: Odell - 07/23/20 10:59 PM
Only God knows what's going to happen. Odell could be 100 percent and be lost after the first hit. Guys aren't 100 for very long. Whether or not they get the proper football conditioning is another variable. This whole season sucks....and it really isn't that important in big scheme of things...GO Browns!!! PS hope none or very few Browns get the virus.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 07/23/20 11:01 PM
j/c:

A few things:

--I do not buy the lack of effort narrative at all. I would like to see a link for that one. I saw OBJ race downfield at full speed trying to block for others. That's effort.

--I don't think he was all that bad last year. He had over 1,000 yards. How many of our WRs had that many yards since 1999?

--I do think he dropped too many passes that were good throws.

--I think he made some unreal catches on bad throws.

--As others have said, the injury bothered him all year.

--The second part of the injury thing is that it took away valuable reps that would have helped the chemistry between he and Baker.

--His QB was dreadful last year.

--Unlike most, I think Freddie should have tried to get the ball to OBJ more. Especially, in crunch time.

--I do think OBJ worries too much about what the media says.

--I do think he was frustrated by the poor qb play and the poor coaching, but I think he did a good job of keeping his mouth shut.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Odell - 07/24/20 12:41 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
j/c:


--I do not buy the lack of effort narrative at all. I would like to see a link for that one. I saw OBJ race downfield at full speed trying to block for others. That's effort.


For me the 'lack of effort' came in the form of him constantly having to be directed by other players on where to line up. I'd agree there are plenty of plays that show OBJ making a downfield block. But it doesn't look good when you phenom #1 WR is having to be directed by the 3rd string TE

--Unlike most, I think Freddie should have tried to get the ball to OBJ more. Especially, in crunch time.

I'm actually 180 degrees on this one. I totally understand that his injury kept him from being able to do the things he is known for, which is why I don't understand trying to push the ball to him, expecting him to be able to do those things when he clearly couldn't. At least reliably.

--I do think he was frustrated by the poor qb play and the poor coaching, but I think he did a good job of keeping his mouth shut.

100% agreed

Posted By: bonefish Re: Odell - 07/24/20 01:21 AM

Odell:

"However, not everyone is a fan of Beckham. One “prominent” NFL head coach accused Beckham of not always playing hard for the Browns and at his previous employer in the New York Giants. “I’ve been watching him quit on plays for years,” said the big-time NFL head coach. “[A] mental roller coaster.

"An anonymous player echoed the head coach’s sentiment by suggesting the mental part of playing football at the highest level takes a toll on him, as well as the teams he plays for. “The whole game seems like a lot for him. At some point you have to say none of your teams have been successful. At some point you have to wonder about that,” said the anonymous veteran player."


https://fansided.com/2020/07/12/nfl-head.../?utm=newsbreak
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Odell - 07/24/20 01:56 AM
Same story, one year older.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Odell - 07/24/20 02:03 AM
I think Odell did fine considering he played with an injury.

He wasn't much of a diva to the disappointment of the trolls.
Posted By: BuckDawg1946 Re: Odell - 07/24/20 08:15 AM
I actually believe Odell would choose to be nowhere else.. If I understand the relationship of Jarvis and Odell, we are sitting on a powder keg of potential.

I believe Jarvis to be our MVP, he’s gonna get his boy on point. It’s genuine, our legitimate super bowl hope.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 07/24/20 11:40 AM
My recollection on Odell has been reinforced by re-watching games recently.

He dropped a TON of passes. His hands weren't injured.

He was frequently lined up incorrectly. His mind and pre-game prep were not injured.

I can't/won't say much about effort or any athletic-scrutiny because I knew he was playing injured. It was easy to give a pass on that.

If he were 1/2 as consistent and reliable as was Landry, he'd be all-World once healthy. He needs to not only be a friend/brother to Landry, he needs to emulate Landry.

If I had to choose between paying Landry and paying Odell - which very well may become a choice we have to make in the near future - I'm taking Landry without doubt.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Odell - 07/24/20 11:55 AM

I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Mostly because I want him to ball out.

I didn't notice him giving up on plays. I posted from fansided what I read.

Unless you are able to get coaches film on many plays you can not watch a receiver.

If he does not play up to his ability this year then he can leave. However, I expect him to be good.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 07/24/20 12:37 PM
https://www.newsday.com/amp/sports/colum...eman-1.34502097

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/odell...coaching-staff/

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/...6c-3d4c8c5a7610

And here is a link to YouTube that has a list of videos and OBJ's workouts. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=obj+workout

I ain't buying that he isn't a hard-worker or lazy.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Odell - 07/24/20 12:44 PM
Injury, head coach without a clue... There is the reason you didn't see the real OBJ
Posted By: bonefish Re: Odell - 07/24/20 01:49 PM

I posted the link and what was stated by fanside.

Like I said. I didn't see it. And I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I know Jarvis and him are very close and I know what Jarvis has done.

I would doubt that he dogged with Jarvis as his teammate.

So again I just want to see what he can do when healthy.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Odell - 07/24/20 01:57 PM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

Odell:

"However, not everyone is a fan of Beckham. One “prominent” NFL head coach accused Beckham of not always playing hard for the Browns and at his previous employer in the New York Giants. “I’ve been watching him quit on plays for years,” said the big-time NFL head coach. “[A] mental roller coaster.

"An anonymous player echoed the head coach’s sentiment by suggesting the mental part of playing football at the highest level takes a toll on him, as well as the teams he plays for. “The whole game seems like a lot for him. At some point you have to say none of your teams have been successful. At some point you have to wonder about that,” said the anonymous veteran player."


https://fansided.com/2020/07/12/nfl-head.../?utm=newsbreak


I totally buy the 'mental rollercoaster' part of that. I can see that affecting his focus and 'being into' a game or practice. That can be seen as laziness and/or being a malcontent. Where you go from that, imo, depends on your overall opinion of him. For me, understanding a problem is critical to correcting it. OBJ is not lazy, his focus just isn't that strong.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Odell - 07/24/20 01:59 PM
His injury was a major factor last year but think other things played a part as well, just not as much.

But I'm more concerned about his compounded injuries over the last three seasons as it relates to his performance in 2020.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Odell - 07/24/20 02:04 PM
Honestly, a lost or half season could do wonders for someone like him. He's GOT to be secretly rooting for the season to be canceled.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 07/24/20 04:12 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Honestly, a lost or half season could do wonders for someone like him. He's GOT to be secretly rooting for the season to be canceled.


I would find that hard to believe. By all accounts, he's fully healthy and in great shape. He's also in his late 20s. I would be surprised if he secretly wanted a season to be cancelled.
Posted By: Brown to the Bone Re: Odell - 07/25/20 12:38 PM
There were countless factors involved IMO, but for me it was a poor Oline that led to our difficulties.

I thought and still think an offense built off the running game with Chub and Hunt in the fold is the key that unlocks this offense. I like an offense that gives the QB options at the LOS. They stack for the run you throw and vise versa.

OBJ dropped to many passes period and that isn't injury related. He has to catch the damned ball. If at the end of a game you count the dropped balls and you dropped more than your opponent I can all but guarantee you'll lose. Show me a team that drops the ball I will show you the loser.

But I truly am more optimistic about this team overall this year than I was last. When I look at the core of this team I see a bunch of guys hitting their 3-4th years and this team was loaded to begin with. I think that core if they learned anything last year it should be that in order to win in the NFL it takes a full out effort in every area. Like all young teams I think they thought their talent being superior was enough, now they should know that while they as a group have superior talent the talent is so close in the NFL anything less than a full effort and you'll still lose.

OBJ will be fine I think but he can only be a part of the offense it can't be about him.

I thought he was a huge distraction for many reasons, and I hope that changes. The shoe thing was stupid it's about being ready to play, knowing where to lineup, not the color of his shoes. Now it's back to the blonde hair, that crap needs to stop this is football anything that distracts from that IMO is bad. I think KS is going to have his hands full and needs to reason these things out with OBJ. If it's about winning for OBJ he needs to embrace not being the center piece, but a part. If he does that this team can achieve anything because the talent is that good.

I think we scare the b Jesus out of the teams we play the talent is so superior to any other offense in the league really now they all need to embrace their roll and that includes OBJ.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Odell - 07/25/20 03:16 PM

IMO this is a very accurate statement:

"Like all young teams I think they thought their talent being superior was enough, now they should know that while they as a group have superior talent the talent is so close in the NFL anything less than a full effort and you'll still lose."

People forget that. We get caught up in the Names. Meaning some players are covered more than others because of their teams etc. Odell has a big name. He gets lots of coverage.

There could be a db on say the Bengals with zero name recognition who could be a very good player.

When you lineup you should be prepared. Your unit has to execute the plays that the staff felt would work.

Talent is super important but as we found out. It take more.

KS will have to take control. He will have to gain player confidence. They have to believe in what they are going to be asked to do. They have to buy in.

We have the talent to be great on offense. However, there are many things that will have to fall in place.
Posted By: BuckDawg1946 Re: Odell - 08/02/20 07:20 AM
I heard he gets in and out of his routes quick
Posted By: 3rd_and_20 Re: Odell - 09/14/20 10:02 AM
j/c:

I was super happy when we first got Odell but that feeling has faded for me now. He drops too many passes and just seems like an odd fit for our team. I hope things change as our season progresses and I feel differently by then, but for now? The 'honeymoon phase' is over.
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Odell - 09/14/20 10:59 AM
I saw the game last night, and when OBJ started to get involved in the game, the game was already lost.

He was far from good last night, but its clear he has nothing to do with Baker struggles out there.

Another doubt I have is that was it the game plan or was Baker zeroing on OBJ because he just can't do anything else?

I wouldn't mind having both riding the bench for the next game.. yes if Baker and OBJ can't do it, then sit them and move on.
Posted By: runback Re: Odell - 09/14/20 12:08 PM
it looked like OBJ was hearing footsteps,, maybe that is because there is no one in the stadium.
Posted By: mac Re: Odell - 09/14/20 12:18 PM
JC...

JMHO...Odell IS NOT HAPPY IN CLEVELAND...
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Odell - 09/14/20 09:50 PM
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Odell - 09/14/20 10:03 PM
Tony Grossi is literally the last person I would to listen to about anything to do with the Browns.
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Odell - 09/14/20 10:05 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Tony Grossi is literally the last person I would to listen to about anything to do with the Browns.


Doug Dieken also mentioned his body language. I agree with you on Grossi.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Odell - 09/14/20 10:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Tony Grossi is literally the last person I would to listen to about anything to do with the Browns.


Doug Dieken also mentioned his body language. I agree with you on Grossi.


Reporting what you saw is one thing, giving advice. . .
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Odell - 09/14/20 10:15 PM
J/c

OBJ doesn’t seem to have it ... in terms of being a positive member of a team and being a winner.

He’s not our only problem, but he’s one of them
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 09/14/20 10:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Tony Grossi is literally the last person I would to listen to about anything to do with the Browns.


Doug Dieken also mentioned his body language. I agree with you on Grossi.


I commented on his body language during camp. He would hang out the periphery of the huddle seemingly half engaged while the rest of team was in the full huddle.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 09/14/20 10:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
J/c

OBJ doesn’t seem to have it ... in terms of being a positive member of a team and being a winner.

He’s not our only problem, but he’s one of them


I hate to say this because he's a great player and I think the problems are more Baker than OBJ, but it could be addition by subtraction.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/14/20 11:05 PM
Serious question. Not snarky at all.

OBJ was almost universally regarded as a top 3 WR in the entire NFL before he came here. Some had him as the best. I am not talking about rankings from fans. I'm talking about respected ex-players, coaches, FO folks, and reporters who do this for a living.

Here is the question: Do you really think he fell off the map that quickly or do you think that it might have more to do w/his qb and even his two HC's?
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Odell - 09/14/20 11:13 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Serious question. Not snarky at all.

OBJ was almost universally regarded as a top 3 WR in the entire NFL before he came here. Some had him as the best. I am not talking about rankings from fans. I'm talking about respected ex-players, coaches, FO folks, and reporters who do this for a living.

Here is the question: Do you really think he fell off the map that quickly or do you think that it might have more to do w/his qb and even his two HC's?


Probably more to do with him being butthurt that NYG traded him and the previous FO not putting up with his antics vs Baker.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Odell - 09/14/20 11:28 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Tony Grossi is literally the last person I would to listen to about anything to do with the Browns.


Very true. But a lot of people are saying this. I bet he is regurgitating what others are opining.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/14/20 11:30 PM
We all have our opinions, but I don't believe that. I think some are using OBJ as a scapegoat to deflect attention away from Baker's issues.

I could be wrong, but that is what I think.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/14/20 11:41 PM
If OBJ is as bad as most of you guys say he is, y'all would probably be okay w/us trading him to either Pittsburgh or Baltimore, right?

LOL
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:03 AM
Can’t win with him, maybe we could win without him.

I don’t have any “agendas” by the way, and I see BM’s struggles; my concerns pertaining to OBJ are separate from the quarterback.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:09 AM
Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Can’t win with him, maybe we could win without him.

I don’t have any “agendas” by the way, and I see BM’s struggles; my concerns pertaining to OBJ are separate from the quarterback.


Odell loves BMs.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:11 AM
I heard something.. about a kind of rumour.....
Posted By: Psydeffect Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:22 AM
I'm highly disappointed in OBJ but I'm not ready to give up on him.

As far as Baker goes, I hate to say it but I'm starting to lose hope in him. He's just too short to stay in the pocket and his accuracy is infuriating. I'm not far from hoping Keenum takes over.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:26 AM
Originally Posted By: Psydeffect
I

...... I'm not far from hoping Keenum takes over.


Truth be told, if he’s not getting better by week 4 or 5, I’ll be there with you.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:35 AM
If we reach the point where we are benching Mayfield for Keenum the season is lost anyway.

Baker gets the full season. You have to know if you can move forward with him as the future or you need to move on.


This offense may have to score 27+ points a game with this terrible defense.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:38 AM
Well, the eyeball test tells me he’s got to get better. I don’t like his rolling right all the time.
Posted By: myka Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:39 AM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
If we reach the point where we are benching Mayfield for Keenum the season is lost anyway.

Baker gets the full season. You have to know if you can move forward with him as the future or you need to move on.


This offense may have to score 27+ points a game with this terrible defense.


Yes, plus the fact that statistically Baker is the best QB we've had since '99 what are the odds a random journeyman is gonna come in and make us amazing? Best case scenario, if we're already tanking bad enough to make the switch, he wins us a couple extra games and we get a worse draft pick.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:41 AM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
If we reach the point where we are benching Mayfield for Keenum the season is lost anyway.

Baker gets the full season. You have to know if you can move forward with him as the future or you need to move on.




It would be nice to see if the team plays better, the same, or worse w/out Baker, though.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:50 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Here is the question: Do you really think he fell off the map that quickly or do you think that it might have more to do w/his qb and even his two HC's?


Why did you address this to me?

My answer was in the post you were responding to.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:53 AM
We sink or swim with Baker this year. We already know the talent of Chubb, Hunt, Landy, OBJ and Hooper.

It's not like we have to figure if there is other talent worth keeping.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:54 AM
Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Well, the eyeball test tells me he’s got to get better.


He absolutely does need to get better.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Odell - 09/15/20 02:09 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
If we reach the point where we are benching Mayfield for Keenum the season is lost anyway.

Baker gets the full season. You have to know if you can move forward with him as the future or you need to move on.




It would be nice to see if the team plays better, the same, or worse w/out Baker, though.


It would be just as nice to see if the team plays better the same or worse without Odell too.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/15/20 02:12 AM
Yes, it would be. Let's do both. One game each. I know where my money would be go.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Odell - 09/15/20 02:18 AM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Can’t win with him, maybe we could win without him.

I don’t have any “agendas” by the way, and I see BM’s struggles; my concerns pertaining to OBJ are separate from the quarterback.


Odell loves BMs.


Lolz.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Odell - 09/15/20 02:27 AM
Well there is the whole 2018 season to look at.
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: Odell - 09/15/20 03:00 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Serious question. Not snarky at all.

OBJ was almost universally regarded as a top 3 WR in the entire NFL before he came here. Some had him as the best. I am not talking about rankings from fans. I'm talking about respected ex-players, coaches, FO folks, and reporters who do this for a living.

Here is the question: Do you really think he fell off the map that quickly or do you think that it might have more to do w/his qb and even his two HC's?


Professional athletes have been known to develop the yips.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:33 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Serious question. Not snarky at all.

OBJ was almost universally regarded as a top 3 WR in the entire NFL before he came here. Some had him as the best. I am not talking about rankings from fans. I'm talking about respected ex-players, coaches, FO folks, and reporters who do this for a living.

Here is the question: Do you really think he fell off the map that quickly or do you think that it might have more to do w/his qb and even his two HC's?


I hear what you're saying and somewhat agree. My only argument is, "so what?". Not saying you're excusing him, but OBJ is supposed to be a pro, and giving up and basically taking his ball and going home (during week 1, no less), is not being a pro. Baker's issues are Baker's issues, and OBJ's issues are OBJ's. They're separate. It's not Baker's fault that OBJ is bringing a bad attitude.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:39 PM
I don't think saying he gave up is even close to being fair. I just came off another thread and two guys were calling him a cancer. I think that is disgustingly unfair. I do hope they trade him. He doesn't deserve this BS.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:47 PM
TomAto - tomato, I guess....

I don't think 'gave up' is all that unfair given all the data points. I mean, we weren't even done with week 1 and he was back to the pouty thing. Landry still went out there and played hard. Same with Hunt and others. I'm not saying he shouldn't be frustrated, I'm just saying he shouldn't act like a child.

Dude is a top 3 WR, no doubt... but he was also doing this same stupid stuff in NY, and that got his butt shipped to Cleveland.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Odell - 09/15/20 12:55 PM
Could it be that the system is designed assuming OBJ is the #1 and is the primary target on 80% of pass plays.

And Baker relying on OBJ too much, and expecting him to make difficult catches, or bailing him out, too often, rather than checking down and take the easier throw?

If OBJ is the first read and you believe he could still catch it even in a tight window, does that give you a little too much confidence to take the shot, even though it really isn't a good choice?

Most great QBs had their goto guy(s), that they counted on to make even the toughest catches. But it is obvious Baker may be relying too much on OBJ, and possibly other teams know it. Add too it, that it still seems like OBJ and Baker are not in sync yet like he is with Landry.
Posted By: mac Re: Odell - 09/15/20 01:04 PM
There were concerns about Odie being a CANCER
before he played one down for the Browns.


Ex-Giants wide receiver Odell Beckham says he won’t be a ‘cancer’ in the Browns’ locker room: What’s Cleveland’s plan for keeping him in line?

Updated Mar 14, 2019; Posted Mar 14, 2019
link

Cleveland Browns general manager John Dorsey received high marks for trading for New York Giants wide receiver Odell Beckham on Tuesday. Dorsey’s goal during the offseason is to surround young quarterback Baker Mayfield with as many playmakers as possible. Beckham, who will team with former LSU buddy Jarvis Landry at wideout, certainly qualifies.

But there’s a reason Giants general manager Dave Gettleman was willing to part with Beckham. In his five seasons with New York, Beckham’s antics on and off the field often overshadowed his game-changing catches and mind-boggling statistics.

So how does Dorsey plan to keep Beckham in line and prevent him from being a negative influence on Mayfield? He shared several ideas during a conference call Thursday with reporters. According to Cleveland.com’s Mary Kay Cabot, Dorsey was asked about Beckham’s reputation as being “difficult.” Here is Dorsey’s answer: “I know Odell’s very very passionate, he’s competitive and I know he can help this football team. If you get a chance to acquire a guy like that, take a shot.’’

Dorsey also sounds like he is putting the pressure of keeping Beckham in line on the coaching staff. Adam Henry is the Browns’ receivers coach. He was the Giants’ receivers coach in 2016 and 2017. He was LSU’s receivers coach from 2012-2014. So he knows Beckham well. Per Cabot: “It helps to have your college position coach on your staff. That helped.’’

Freddie Kitchens is beginning his first season as the Browns head coach. According to Dorsey, Kitchens ultimately will be responsible for Beckham’s behavior. Per Cabot: “Freddie (Kitchens) will hold guys accountable. That’s one of the things I love about Freddie. He’s so straightforward, honest, he’s going to set expectations high. He will make players accountable. He’s the same guy every day. That’s who he is.”

Dorsey is well aware of the relationship between Beckham and Landry. While he says he did not check with Landry before making the trade, Dorsey is counting on Landry’s bond with Beckham to keep things positive in Cleveland. Per Cabot: “I know they’re best of friends. I know they’re very competitive with each other. I think it can only help each other. Competition brings out the best in everybody.”

Landry was one of the first people to welcome Beckham to Cleveland after Tuesday’s trade.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/15/20 01:05 PM
Are we going to go back and forth all day long. You made a point about him giving up. I disagreed. It should have ended there. You saying it again isn't going to change my mind. I think saying he gave up is extremely unfair. You don't know that.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 09/15/20 01:11 PM
NRTU

Braylon needs to SHOW up before he can GIVE up.

He was a vet receiver and one-time top-X WR. He has not yet shown that with Cleveland. He HAS shown (in 2019) that he still has a propensity to be a distraction, he regularly didn't know where to line up and he dropped a ton of passes last year...and was injured. We waited all season for news of his surgery and rehab. We gleefully participated in a thread about our "Weapons"...again.

He comes into this year and manages - in game #1 - an early penalty for being an idiot...drops an easy 3rd down conversion...runs out of bounds on a comeback throw by the QB...drifts around the huddle...and displays the body language of a guy who simply doesn't want to be there.

All this BS with his "brother" Landry on the team. Landry manages to produce just fine with his QB...Njoku redeemed himself very, very nicely Sunday with his QB...Chubb and Hunt displayed impressive heart and grit with their QB...the OL blocked well for their QB. I suppose we could say the kicker didn't do well with his QB. Who is on the outside of that paragraph?

I watched all (4) AFC North teams this weekend. The Bengals have TWO WRs that I would trade for Braylon AND give up a draft pick. The Steelers have TWO as well...and their #1 WR isn't one of the two. We have the best slot WR in the game...a solid #3 WR who can't get on the field...a STer posing as a WR...and a diva WR who can't catch the ball.

This board has a history of - rightfully - being very harsh against WRs and TEs who can't catch the ball. Braylon has been that guy his entire time with Cleveland. Maybe we could tolerate his antics if he were playing like a top 3 WR...maybe...but he sure isn't producing like that in a Browns uniform.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Odell - 09/15/20 01:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Are we going to go back and forth all day long... It should have ended there. You saying it again isn't going to change my mind.


So the football convo is done because you say so? With the amount of whining you do on here, for you to turn around and get all snippy because someone wants to continue a conversation is... really something.

No, we're not going to go back and forth all day long, or at all.
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Odell - 09/15/20 01:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
If we reach the point where we are benching Mayfield for Keenum the season is lost anyway.

Baker gets the full season. You have to know if you can move forward with him as the future or you need to move on.


This offense may have to score 27+ points a game with this terrible defense.


Ii don't get this way of thinking. We already missed the playoffs last season because we had no viable backup QB, and I would not understand missing again this year because we have to see what BM has.

Baker has not evolved, he is completely unprepared to the point where he has no idea what offense he is running apart from the first scripted plays.

If you want BM to have any chance he has to go back and learn the game from the bench, if not his career will be over in just a few games.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/15/20 01:18 PM
Quote:
No, we're not going to go back and forth all day long, or at all.


Sounds good to me.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Odell - 09/15/20 01:18 PM
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie

He comes into this year and manages - in game #1 - an early penalty for being an idiot...drops an easy 3rd down conversion...runs out of bounds on a comeback throw by the QB...drifts around the huddle...and displays the body language of a guy who simply doesn't want to be there.


Not getting into the rest of it - but this summary of game 1 is accurate. I'm still hoping Baker and OBJ develop some chemistry because it would be better for the team. We'll see over the course of the next few games if 'all' or most of the problem is Baker as is being suggested by some because of OBJ's history - whether it's a combination.

Watching how other teams get their WR's with quicks open and isolated, I still have not seen plays that develop like that for OBJ - but once again, the Ravens D is not a good barometer to judge against.
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Odell - 09/15/20 01:23 PM
Here is a novel idea, bench both OBJ and Baker..

I don't think OBJ is the problem, but I have no problems benching him.

Don't think Baker fans would agree because the moment we bench Baker his career will be over. Yes I do think we have such a good O than any average QB will be successful running it.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/15/20 01:29 PM
j/c:

While some posters and media types like to say that OBJ is a cancer, gives up, pouts, etc.............I thought it might be worthwhile to hear what his teammates say about him. Take a look.

Quote:
Discovering OBJ: Browns learn he's not guy 'everybody thinks he is'

Oct 7, 2019

Jake TrotterESPN Staff Writer



BEREA, Ohio -- Before joining the Cleveland Browns this offseason, Sheldon Richardson admits he'd heard the rap that Odell Beckham Jr. wasn't a great teammate. Now, after sharing the locker room with the wide receiver these past few months, Richardson has a "completely opposite" viewpoint.

"Couldn't be further from the truth. ... it's all propaganda," Richardson said of Beckham's reputation.
ADVERTISEMENT
Get the best of ESPN sent to your inbox The ESPN Daily delivers the biggest sports news and moments every weekday.
Privacy PolicyRead the Latest

"He's everything you want your teammate to be."

Richardson was hardly alone in praise of Beckham as a teammate.

"A guy who would do anything for you if you needed it," veteran center JC Tretter said. "And that's what I think everybody has seen from him here, where if you need something, he'll go out of his way to help you out or do something for you. He's just been a class act since he got here. There hasn't been one bad interaction I think anybody's had with him.

"He's been the model teammate."

Pinpointing exactly how Beckham earned a reputation otherwise before the New York Giants jettisoned him to Cleveland in March isn't easy.
Odell Beckham Jr. is "everything you want your teammate to be," says Browns defensive lineman Sheldon Richardson. Nick Cammett/Diamond Images via Getty Images

Last year in an interview with ESPN, Beckham did express frustration with his role on a "safe" Giants offense with quarterback Eli Manning, who wasn't attempting many passes downfield. (Manning has been benched in favor of rookie Daniel Jones.)

To be sure, OBJ has also endured his share of controversial moments over the years, from fighting with a kicking net to punching a hole in the visiting locker room following a playoff loss to the Green Bay Packers in 2017. He was even suspended a game in 2015 after committing three personal foul penalties while tussling with Carolina Panthers cornerback Josh Norman.

Yet just last week, underscoring how, in his words, he's "grown up a lot," Beckham found himself in a similar scuffle with Baltimore Ravens cornerback Marlon Humphrey, who at one point had Beckham pinned to the ground and appeared to be choking him. Beckham was flagged and fined. But he also didn't escalate the incident like he said he wanted to, noting he didn't want to hurt his teammates any more than he had. Beckham also declared he'd be paying Tretter's fine for helping break up the fight.
NFL PrimeTime on ESPN+

NFL PrimeTime continues this postseason with extended highlights and analysis following the conclusion of each day's playoff games. Watch on ESPN+

"When you don't play with a superstar, you don't really know about him except for what the media says," Browns guard Joel Bitonio said. "I've had teammates that played with him in New York and all of them said that he was a great guy when he was there, but you just continue to hear things on social media and the TV that are saying, 'Oh, he's not a good teammate. Oh, he's a cancer in the locker room.'

"The thing with Odell is he's so competitive that he wants to win so badly and be so good that it may look like that from the outside. But from the inside you know that he is fighting for his teammates and only wants the best for us."

Interviews with more than a dozen other Cleveland players revealed the same opinion: OBJ, so far at least, has been the model teammate.

"He's a celebrity, like he's famous beyond football, so it's like everything he does gets scrutinized. ... people are going to believe what they want to believe," safety Damarious Randall said. "But he's got a great head on his shoulders. He probably cares too much about people's feelings. ... little things that people don't see."

Beckham agrees that he's misunderstood.

"As far as being a teammate," he said, "I'm probably not what I'm perceived to be by the world."

When Beckham arrived in Cleveland for training camp, he carried over a tradition from New York, sitting with different groups of players at each meal in the cafeteria.

"I talk to everybody who's in this locker room, in the weight room, meetings. I talk to everybody," Beckham said. "You've got to get to know who you are battling with. When the whistle blows, it's just us out there. These are guys. ... you'll forever remember and cherish."

Although subtle, that routine didn't go unnoticed in a locker room unaccustomed to having players of Beckham's star power.
Odell Beckham Jr. has been a hit with Browns fans, who have even higher expectations for their team with the addition of the star receiver. Frank Jansky/Icon Sportswire

"He's always joking around with guys and being interactive with guys," said linebacker Christian Kirksey, currently on injured reserve but who, along with Bitonio, is the longest-tenured Brown on the team. "That's something that you need. To have a star player like that, still enjoying team camaraderie. ... we need guys like him."

Defensive end Myles Garrett recalled Beckham starting that even earlier with him, taking him out to eat in Los Angeles multiple times over the summer.

"Just wanted to see how my life was going," Garrett said. "See how we could get better as teammates and build some chemistry.

"Y'all make your characterizations. ... but he's been a good teammate for me and for the rest of my guys on the D-line and defense."

Rookie cornerback Greedy Williams remembers one player who wouldn't make the team cut looking for a ride to the team hotel during training camp. Beckham overheard the request.

"OBJ was like, 'Man, come hop in the truck with me, I'll take you,'" Williams said. "He's one of those guys who's genuine, who's friendly with everybody. I can't even remember the guy's name. Odell, he don't think of himself above anybody, he don't ignore anyone. ... he's actually one of the greatest teammates I've ever had."

Upon being drafted by the Browns in the fifth round out of Alabama, rookie linebacker Mack Wilson recalled Beckham being among the very first Cleveland players to reach out to him.

"On the inside, I have not seen a single ounce of somebody that's difficult to work with. ... you see how he approaches the game, what it means to him, and how much he enjoys doing what he does ... I can't say a single bad word about the guy."
Drew Stanton on Beckham

"He was excited that I got drafted here, even knew what type of type of player I was," Wilson said. "I was like, he's not this person that everybody thinks he is. An arrogant, cocky guy like that. ... he's most definitely a caring person."

No rookie felt that more than Damon Sheehy-Guiseppi, whose backstory captivated fans and teammates. Sheehy-Guiseppi talked his way into a workout with Browns vice president of player personnel Alonzo Highsmith in Miami. After he was invited to Cleveland for a tryout a week later, Sheehy-Guiseppi, out of money, slept on the grass outside a sports performance facility, where he trained during the day, while waiting for his flight.

Several Browns players recall how Beckham took Sheehy-Guiseppi under his wing, gifting him the cleats the rookie wore scoring an 86-yard punt return touchdown in Cleveland's preseason opener. After finding out he had been cut, Sheehy-Guiseppi posted a heartfelt message about Beckham on social media. Even though Sheehy-Guiseppi remains unsigned, the two talk regularly, including late last week, and even now share the same agent.

"He's about relationship-building," said wide receiver Jarvis Landry, also Beckham's teammate at LSU.

Sometimes, that comes via gifts -- and Sheehy-Guiseppi hasn't been the only recipient.

"The media always portrays him as a bad guy, but if you ever ask him for anything, he's going to give it to you," wide receiver Damion Ratley said. "He's going to break his back just trying to help you out, because he knows he's got the means to do anything for you, from his gloves to his cleats, anything like that."

When Beckham was still in New York, he once provided 100 king-sized Casper mattresses to Giants players and staff. On the Friday before Cleveland's season opener, Browns players found a gift waiting for them at their locker -- a pair of his Nike Air Max 720s sneakers.

"I've learned a lot, but this is how I've always been," said Beckham, who also surprised the Youngstown Chaney High School football team with shoes. "I've always been a guy who ... I'm getting a free bag or whatever it is, I'm going to ask for 50 of them to give them to everybody in the locker room. That's just how I am. I want to see my teammates have what I have."

But Beckham didn't get sneakers for just his teammates, either. He also got them for Cleveland's equipment and training staff, among others in the building.

"Ain't nothing different," said defensive end Olivier Vernon, who played with Beckham in New York before being traded to Cleveland in the offseason. "He don't carry himself like he's above the team. Most guys in that position, you could probably see 'em doing it, but he won't act like that. He won't carry himself like that."

Veteran backup quarterback Drew Stanton wasn't quite sure what to make of Beckham at first. Stanton had a charity golf outing coming up and didn't know if he should ask Beckham to sign a jersey for it.

"There are certain guys that will remain nameless that I played with, I just stopped asking them, because they were a pain to deal with," Stanton said. "I went and asked our equipment guys. ... and they're like, 'He's unbelievable, it won't be an issue.' I asked him to sign it and he was great.

"On the inside, I have not seen a single ounce of somebody that's difficult to work with. A lot of it could be the media portraying him a certain way. But you see how he approaches the game, what it means to him, and how much he enjoys doing what he does. I have zero issues. I can't say a single bad word about the guy."
Beckham Jr. has 21 receptions on 37 targets, both team highs, in his first four games of the season. Rich Graessle/Icon Sportswire

Stanton said another reason for that is how Beckham has been with kids. In training camp, Beckham handed out cleats to young fans. When offensive coordinator Todd Monken brought kids out of the stands to get Beckham's autograph, he obliged.

Quietly, Beckham has told the Browns they don't need to ask his permission to meet with children from the Make-A-Wish Foundation; instead, he has a standing appointment for them every home Saturday.

"He knows that he has that powerful tool," Stanton said, "and he doesn't take it lightly."

Despite his fresh start, controversy has continued to follow Beckham to Cleveland.

He was reprimanded by the league for wearing a $189,000 Richard Mille watch in Cleveland's opener, in advance of an announcement of his watch deal with Daniel Wellington. Beckham was also sent to the bench on third-and-goal during Cleveland's opening drive in Week 2, due to the tint of his visor; with OBJ on the sidelines, the Browns had to settle for a field goal.
Editor's Picks

The superstar hiding in plain sight: DeForest Buckner dominates in anonymity
Best bets for Browns-49ers
From rugby to punting: 'Scottish Hammer' booming as rookie with Browns

But as the Browns struggled to a 1-2 start, Beckham was also a pillar of stability in the locker room. As coach Freddie Kitchens and quarterback Baker Mayfield came under fire for the offense struggling, Beckham, aware of the hyper-focus on him, didn't feed into the negativity with comments or body language -- even after the Browns targeted him only once during the fourth quarter of a narrow Week 3 loss to the Los Angeles Rams.

"He's just a good teammate," Mayfield said. "People can say what they want. ... Until you really meet him, you don't know who he is, and we're fortunate to have him and be around him every day."

Beckham's body language was noticeable for other reasons in Cleveland's potentially season-turning win last Sunday in Baltimore. Although he was held to a career-low two receptions, Beckham's gravity contributed to wide receiver Landry, running back Nick Chubb and even tight end Ricky Seals-Jones all having big days.

On one play, Beckham's short curl route helped suck in the defense, which allowed Seals-Jones to break free for a 59-yard reception. Behind the play, Beckham, still without a catch to that point, was pumping his fist.

"If you want to know what kind of character and what kind of player Odell is," Kitchens said, "put on the tape of Jarvis' runs, of Ricky's runs, of him blocking with Nick's runs and watch where he is when they finally get tackled, all right?

"That will tell you everything you need to know about Odell Beckham."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2778...ybody-thinks-is

Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Odell - 09/15/20 02:31 PM
my true opinion o OBJ is that people are expeting too much of him and forcing eveything from the coaching staff to the QB.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Odell - 09/15/20 02:47 PM
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
my true opinion o OBJ is that people are expeting too much of him and forcing eveything from the coaching staff to the QB.


If our expectations of a "top 5 WR" in the NFL are too high - what does that say about our expectations for a 3rd year QB who is on his 4th HC with the same team ... only QB in history to received such a wonderful start to their career? Not withstanding Baker was bad last year and played badly game 1 .... Personally I hope he works out and there is some chemistry with Baker. Injury or not I don;t think it was expecting too much to think OBJ should know the playbook last year and know where to line up.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 09/15/20 03:19 PM
C'mon Vers...what else are they gonna say?

The guy is known league-wide for being a head case and he's played like a #4- WR since he's been here.

He got the benefit of the doubt last year and laid an absolute egg in the opener this year...with his play...his concentration...his body-language.

He's not done much of anything positive since he's been here.

He's Braylon Edwards...without the Michigan excuse.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/15/20 03:21 PM
He was injured the entire season last year. Is that the "chance" you gave him? Or are you talking about the one game this year being his chance?
Posted By: bonefish Re: Odell - 09/15/20 03:22 PM

The Browns got beat. The team that beat them is damn good. They don't seem to be given much credit.

Seems like it is all about how Baker and Odell suck.

Lamar was the MVP. The team had giant offensive stats.

They made changes to upgrade their defensive front. And they look damn good. Their defensive backfield is outstanding.

Their coverage against us was tight. So, I think they deserve some credit.

I think most believed we would struggle coming out of this covid season. New staff etc. So, I will exercise some patience.

I felt going into the game that I would give them the first month as real training camp. I will stick to that.

After the first month the gloves come off. We are who we are. No excuses. That goes for the entire team. Stefanski, Mayfield, Odell, and all the rest.


I want Baker to succeed. Selfish reasons. Because if he fails so will the team. And fail for a long time. Like back to finding a quarterback.

I don't have that kind of time. I was in eleventh grade in 1964 when the Browns won it all. I would like to win a Super Bowl before my expiration date.

So Baker's success means a lot. I don't hate him. I just want to win. If he fails it is back to the hamster wheel.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 09/15/20 03:25 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
He was injured the entire season last year. Is that the "chance" you gave him? Or are you talking about the one game this year being his chance?


"Benefit of the doubt"...not "chance". Benefit of the doubt regarding his entire body of work last year in what was a total clustercircus. We all knew something was off.

He's a complete product in the league..."chance" is no longer an option. He either plays like a top, professional WR or he does not. So far with Cleveland, he has been nothing but a big disappointment.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 09/15/20 03:27 PM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

The Browns got beat. The team that beat them is damn good. They don't seem to be given much credit.

Seems like it is all about how Baker and Odell suck.

Lamar was the MVP. The team had giant offensive stats.

They made changes to upgrade their defensive front. And they look damn good. Their defensive backfield is outstanding.

Their coverage against us was tight. So, I think they deserve some credit.

I think most believed we would struggle coming out of this covid season. New staff etc. So, I will exercise some patience.

I felt going into the game that I would give them the first month as real training camp. I will stick to that.

After the first month the gloves come off. We are who we are. No excuses. That goes for the entire team. Stefanski, Mayfield, Odell, and all the rest.


I want Baker to succeed. Selfish reasons. Because if he fails so will the team. And fail for a long time. Like back to finding a quarterback.

I don't have that kind of time. I was in eleventh grade in 1964 when the Browns won it all. I would like to win a Super Bowl before my expiration date.

So Baker's success means a lot. I don't hate him. I just want to win. If he fails it is back to the hamster wheel.


If the "Like" button had an Exclamation Point option, I'd add it.
Posted By: mac Re: Odell - 09/15/20 03:33 PM
vers...first...WHAT THE HELL KIND OF RESPONSE DO YOU EXPECT FROM TEAMMATES WHEN ESPN IS ASKING THE QUESTIONS?

Tell me you are not so naive about football as it relates to locker room opinions from "TEAMMATES", to rely on responses from fellow teammates to a FREAKING ESPN REPORTER....?

The coaches and front office have an ODIE problem on their hands and now we have to find out what kind of coaches we have.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/15/20 03:40 PM
Once again, he was injured the entire season last year. If you're taking that into your evaluation of "a big disappointment", I find that highly suspect.

We certainly agree that moving forward he has to step up and be the player he was advertised to be.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/15/20 03:40 PM
Are you calling Brown's players "liars?" Yet, you trust some reporter who doesn't know Odell? LOL.......take a freaking hike w/your nonsense.
Posted By: Swish Re: Odell - 09/15/20 04:20 PM
jc

the constant blame game toward OBJ is starting to remind me of how Kevin love has been treated when lebron was here.

and how many times to posters need to remind others tha obj STILL put up 1000 yards while injured?

its like people wanna ignore that part. he was injured and still competed.

imo, the biggest difference right now between the OBJ in NY and the OBJ here is that Eli would actually give him a chance to make spectacular plays on the ball. Eli, with all his flaws, didn't even force it to OBJ, he just gave him opportunities.

Baker ain't doing that. Baker keeps rolling to either side, purposely condensing himself to only read one side of the field, due to the fact that even in his 3rd year, he's still a one read QB.

does OBJ need to step it up and make those easy catches? absolutely. but OBJ is not a cancer, and he damn sure isn't overrated.

i bet DA or Weeden, as below average as they were, would put giving OBJ and jarvis all kinds of opportunities. they actually had a gunslinger mentality.

we drafted a guy who only acts like one.

Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Odell - 09/15/20 04:24 PM
The crazy thing is that he took that gunslinger mentality his first season. Look at his first Jets game with some of the passes he threw, like the one to Landry. Look at the TD pass to Perriman against the Broncos. Look at the TD pass to Landry against the Panthers.

I have no idea wth happened to him since 2018.
Posted By: Swish Re: Odell - 09/15/20 04:28 PM
expectations.

it easy to walk around like the man when you got a guy in OU who literally built you, combined with the fact that defense is just a suggestion in the big 12.

its easy to walk around like the man in 2018 going to a team that was 0-16 and had no expectations whatsoever.

now the sports world actually expects something from him since 2019 with all the weapons he has.

some people excel under pressure. some stay the same. some regress.
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Odell - 09/15/20 04:38 PM
Originally Posted By: Swish
expectations.

it easy to walk around like the man when you got a guy in OU who literally built you, combined with the fact that defense is just a suggestion in the big 12.

its easy to walk around like the man in 2018 going to a team that was 0-16 and had no expectations whatsoever.

now the sports world actually expects something from him since 2019 with all the weapons he has.

some people excel under pressure. some stay the same. some regress.


The main issue here is that Baker was drafted because he was supposed to excel under pressure and be a mental QB, a leader, a winner.

Baker never had the physical or arm talent, that is not what he was drafted for. If he was struggling with other parts of the game but excelling in mental toughness, work ethics and game preparations, I would say it would make sense to wait.

But Baker has showed already that he isn't the QB we drafted... so what is the point of waiting... He is not a prototypical QB, he isn't a mobile QB, he is not a winner nor a commander of man, he is no Drew Brees.

He is a slight improvement over Colt McCoy with a large baggage...
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Odell - 09/15/20 05:01 PM
j/c...

***Rumor Alert***

Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Odell - 09/15/20 05:05 PM
Posted By: bonefish Re: Odell - 09/15/20 05:09 PM

Your opinion is yours alone.

Going to a team that has not won a game is not a soft landing.


To say Baker does not have arm talent? Well I don't think that those who make a living in football would agree.

So two seasons and one game against the Ravens and it is all over for Baker.

Don't apply for a GM position any time soon.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 09/15/20 05:13 PM
His attitude and performance yesterday (when healthy) was exactly like it was last year (when injured).

This is his 7th year in the league...so he's a complete(d) project. He CAN do the job...he simply does not...not here or here-yet anyway. Maybe we should just wait for him to come around. Landry and Njoku had no problems doing their jobs Sunday.

PSA: None of my comments on Braylon are intended to shield Baker from criticism.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 09/15/20 05:14 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...

***Rumor Alert***



Classic Bray-Bray body language. Apparently Dieken commented on it as well.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Odell - 09/15/20 05:22 PM
Mike Francesca?!?!? What are we even doing anymore?
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Odell - 09/15/20 05:30 PM
He got the scoop in b/t naps! willynilly
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 09/15/20 05:33 PM
The "scoop". naughtydevil
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/15/20 05:40 PM
OBJ caught for 1000 yards during a season he was injured. All you have to make any legitimate claim on is one game. And I agree with you about that one game. But one game doesn't really tell you anything.

Keep trying to convince people that catching for 1000 yards during a season you were injured was a failure. You're certainly not going to convince me.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Odell - 09/15/20 05:50 PM
Yup. Spot on.

Yes, he had a really bad game, and that was not a good way to start the new season following a season where despite being really good, he still under-performed on expectations... BUT, it's just one game. He still has PLENTY of track record backing up his elite status, and he would need to have a LOT more bad games like Sunday before comparisons with Braylon become valid on any level. Braylon had as many good games as OBJ has had bad games. They are worlds apart.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Odell - 09/15/20 06:10 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Mike Francesca?!?!? What are we even doing anymore?


This is New York's version of Tony Grossi, right?
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Odell - 09/15/20 06:14 PM
Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Mike Francesca?!?!? What are we even doing anymore?


This is New York's version of Tony Grossi, right?


Except more popular and less reliable.
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Odell - 09/15/20 07:14 PM
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Odell - 09/15/20 07:18 PM
These idiots.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Odell - 09/15/20 07:31 PM
Originally Posted By: Pdawg


If it's true, then there may be more going on in-house than we are aware of. No way a new coach gives up on a star receiver that quick over 1 game.
Posted By: Swish Re: Odell - 09/15/20 07:35 PM
damn not even one week and we're already a train wreck.
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Odell - 09/15/20 07:37 PM
I think this is just Mary Kay being Mary Kay. The source of the rumor isn’t credible, at least imo.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Odell - 09/15/20 07:39 PM
It's not true; Mary Kay is citing the one singular "report" that was already debunked.

It's just trolling.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/15/20 07:41 PM
Exactly.
Posted By: CleVeLaNd_sTrife Re: Odell - 09/15/20 08:10 PM
So when I watched the first half I was wondering why OBJ wasn't targeted at all.

Then in the late second quarter he started to get some targets. There was one play that I think would have been a TD but Humphrey was called for holding. Then another holding penalty on Humphrey.

There was also a clear holding penalty that they missed on Humphrey.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Odell - 09/15/20 08:16 PM
It’s clickbaiting. This is what you do when you work in a failing industry, anything for the clicks.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Odell - 09/15/20 08:21 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
It’s clickbaiting. This is what you do when you work in a failing industry, anything for the clicks.


Correct, imo.
Posted By: bonefish until Re: Odell - 09/15/20 08:32 PM

It was one game. The Ravens are good especially the defensive backfield.

Odell is no doubt talented. It is up to the head coach to make this work. If that is possible.

I love Chubb and Jarvis. Odell? I am willing to see what he can do this year.

The same for Baker. He has to show improvement this year. Show he worthy of being the Browns starting quarterback. And show he has the potential to lead this team. Whatever the team does this year should show they are on the right track.

If the team ends up losing say six of the last eight games. We are in big trouble. I don't even want to think about that.

I will remain positive until things go dark. Then I will move on to something else. I have been waiting 56 years.

All I can do is hope one year will be golden.
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: Odell - 09/15/20 08:49 PM
Mary Kay apparently didn't like his response when he turned down her request for him to be her #2 receiver.
Posted By: tastybrownies Re: Odell - 09/15/20 09:53 PM
Let's get this over with. It's time to trade ODell ASAP. Quicker the better.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Odell - 09/15/20 10:10 PM
I dont see us being able to trade OBJ .. maybe for like a 6th rounder
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/15/20 10:11 PM
You guys are killing me.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Odell - 09/15/20 10:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
I dont see us being able to trade OBJ .. maybe for like a 6th rounder


This has to be a joke.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Odell - 09/16/20 12:07 AM
Depends if Bill O'Brien reset the trade value for 'elite' WR's when he traded Hopkins for a bag of chips and a coke.
Posted By: tastybrownies Re: Odell - 09/16/20 01:53 AM
The Broncos gave us Hillis that one time for a ham sandwich, remember? ooo
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Odell - 09/16/20 04:07 AM
I'm not happy with OBJ but I don't want him traded. I want him to play to his potential... smh
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Odell - 09/16/20 09:42 AM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

Your opinion is yours alone.

Going to a team that has not won a game is not a soft landing.


To say Baker does not have arm talent? Well I don't think that those who make a living in football would agree.

So two seasons and one game against the Ravens and it is all over for Baker.

Don't apply for a GM position any time soon.


If Baker had NFL arm talent we would never have been a walk on college QB. Baker needs a stable platform to throw accurately, which is not arm talent, arm talent is when a QB can make the throws from unstable platforms,specially when on the move. Baker has always been highly inaccurate outside of the pocket.

He was drafted because he was supposed to be clutch,a winner with superior work ethics... turns out he is a choker that can't even keep his shape nor learn where is offense is supposed to line up.

Its quite evident that he has lost the team, he commands little respect, because we all can see who is Baker now, and he is not Drew Brees nor Russel Wilson.

Browns can go to the playoffs with an average QB this season, we could have done it last year if they benched Baker,please don't throw this away just because we have a failed pick... we are used to failed picks, its not a big deal for us, going to the playoffs is.
Posted By: mac Re: Odell - 09/16/20 10:15 AM
rast...'kool aid' for breakfast, I see. saywhat
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Odell - 09/16/20 11:10 AM
Originally Posted By: mac
rast...'kool aid' for breakfast, I see. saywhat


After all this years and so many busts and fails in our team, its strange that some fans still have such high attachment to players.

I always hope our players and staff will pan out and excel, but the truth is that most don't, so we should stop picking sides and see this has a normal process.

Right now I and many feel that Baker is not helping the team, the same can be said for OBJ, so lets try to reduce the drama and if any player has to be benched or cut, so be it.

Just start Keenun and name Landry the #1 receiver and lets see what happens, its not like things can get any worst.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Odell - 09/16/20 11:54 AM
j/c:

The problem with trading Odell is, as of right now, his value has never been lower. The situation so far has not worked out through 17 games and he has been injured for three consecutive seasons. Unless the situation is absolutely untenable, I don't think the Browns' preference is to unload OBJ and not get anywhere near the value they would hope if they were truly ready to move on.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Odell - 09/16/20 12:10 PM
Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
j/c:

The problem with trading Odell is, as of right now, his value has never been lower. The situation so far has not worked out through 17 games and he has been injured for three consecutive seasons. Unless the situation is absolutely untenable, I don't think the Browns' preference is to unload OBJ and not get anywhere near the value they would hope if they were truly ready to move on.


This right here. I think the 6th rounder comment was hyperbole, but I agree with the overall point. You don't cut loose talent like that for pennies on the dollar, especially after week 1. I'm tired of the drama as well, but the right move is to march on and continue to improve and get ALL of the pieces of this offense working. Now if a team wants to give up a 1st rounder for him, I sit up in my seat. If we can recover what we gave to get him, I start thinking trade. I don't see that happening.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/16/20 01:19 PM
j/c:

A few things.

--Baker does have arm talent. In fact, I think he has a plus arm. His issues are not due to lack of arm strength.

--I think trading OBJ would be dumb and it's a manufactured story.

--I think a lot of the OBJ hate is being generated by folks who are trying to deflect attention away from Baker's issues.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 09/16/20 01:28 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
OBJ caught for 1000 yards during a season he was injured. All you have to make any legitimate claim on is one game. And I agree with you about that one game. But one game doesn't really tell you anything.

Keep trying to convince people that catching for 1000 yards during a season you were injured was a failure. You're certainly not going to convince me.


I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Here is some perspective:

1,000 yard seasons - especially receiving - are not what they were when we were growing up. I'll skip the rules changes that made/continues-to-make the league uber passer-friendly and remind you that a 1,000 yard season = 62.5 yards per game.

In 2019, Braylon had TWO 100+ yard games. One was 101 and one was 161. The closest he came to a 3rd 100 yard game was 87 yards. His 1,000 yard season was 1,035...64.7 per game average...for approx $15 million.

I have stated numerous times on here that the 2020 opener is not "just one game" in regards to Braylon's performance during his tenure as a Brown. Easy drops, lack of concentration, body language of a toddler, stupid penalties. He did that with regularity last year...and started 2020 doing it/that again.

I see him out-performed by WRs on every team in our division...even on his own team. He's a 7th year vet and 3-time Pro Bowler..and he's played and acted like a self-absorbed, questionable-hands, poor-route-running version of the last Browns WR to fit that description.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Odell - 09/16/20 01:34 PM
My only real issue with OBJ other than him not performing to his star status is Baker and coaches thinking they have to force the ball to him to get him involved. He's involved every time he comes off that line and takes one, two, or three defenders with him.

That and the purple hair... I expected his blonde hair, was not ready for purple. Why purple? lol
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: Odell - 09/16/20 01:35 PM
There are some rumblings on profootballtalk that Allen Robinson is unhappy in Chicago. Would people on here consider making a trade for him with OBJ?

I do think it's a bit early, and I'd probably want a pick with him due to Robinson's contract situation.

It's honestly more of a hypothetical question for me. If we were going to trade OBJ, how would you feel about Allen Robinson being his replacement?
Posted By: bonefish Re: Odell - 09/16/20 01:40 PM
All of this comes from getting whipped by the Ravens.

I will give this team the first four games. And then reassess.

I want this to work. I want Odell and Baker to be good.

It has been no fun at all being a Browns fan really since Bernie.

I am so sick of losing I can not even explain it.

It is a problem for me. I wish it didn't mean so much. But I can not change myself. I hate losing. It eats at me.

I want to wake up from this nightmare of losing. I want Cleveland to be great. I want respect for the Browns and the city. When the Cav's won. I could not believe it. It was such a thrill. The Browns or Indians winning a championship would mean so much for so many.

There are no trophy's for wishes. It has to be earned.

The thought of going back to the draft to find a savior quarterback. That is a hard pill to swallow. That is four years of hoping you are right.

Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: Odell - 09/16/20 01:43 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog


--I think trading OBJ would be dumb and it's a manufactured story.

--I think a lot of the OBJ hate is being generated by folks who are trying to deflect attention away from Baker's issues.


It works both ways. At times it looks like the Baker hate is deflecting from OBJ's recent struggles.

Both need to play better. Both could also stand to lead better.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Odell - 09/16/20 01:51 PM
J/C
I think it’s fair (and correct) to say that:

- Baker sucks
- OBJ has been a huge disappointment

They are both true IMO
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Odell - 09/16/20 02:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Bull_Dawg
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog


--I think trading OBJ would be dumb and it's a manufactured story.

--I think a lot of the OBJ hate is being generated by folks who are trying to deflect attention away from Baker's issues.


It works both ways. At times it looks like the Baker hate is deflecting from OBJ's recent struggles.

Both need to play better. Both could also stand to lead better.

I don't really buy into that. I see virtually EVERYONE acknowledge Baker needs to play better. I don't actually see anyone suggesting Baker's bad play is because of OBJ.

I do see one poster seemingly imply that OBJ is an Elite WR and his struggles are because of the QB.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/16/20 04:10 PM
Originally Posted By: mac
rast...'kool aid' for breakfast, I see. saywhat


It would be nice if you actually said something.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/16/20 04:13 PM
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie

1,000 yard seasons - especially receiving - are not what they were when we were growing up. I'll skip the rules changes that made/continues-to-make the league uber passer-friendly and remind you that a 1,000 yard season = 62.5 yards per game.


It is for a WR who was injured all season. Nobody is buying it.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 09/16/20 05:16 PM
I'm not selling anything...Braylon is.
Posted By: Dave Re: Odell - 09/16/20 05:29 PM
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
I'm not selling anything...Braylon is.


Come on Willie, at least get his name right - its Leon.
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Odell - 09/16/20 06:12 PM
Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: bonefish

Your opinion is yours alone.

Going to a team that has not won a game is not a soft landing.


To say Baker does not have arm talent? Well I don't think that those who make a living in football would agree.

So two seasons and one game against the Ravens and it is all over for Baker.

Don't apply for a GM position any time soon.


If Baker had NFL arm talent we would never have been a walk on college QB.


this is simply not true.

my son just walked on for his college baseball team because he believed he had a better opportunity. Other kids on his team walked on as well when they had full rides to d2 colleges.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/16/20 06:19 PM
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
I'm not selling anything...Braylon is.


Au contraire.
Posted By: Swish Re: Odell - 09/16/20 06:41 PM
well if the reports are BS, the national media certainly doesn't think so. all the major sports shows was talking about the report.

and lets be clear: they tend to be right about this team a hell of a lot more than not.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Odell - 09/16/20 07:12 PM
Quote:
I watched all (4) AFC North teams this weekend. The Bengals have TWO WRs that I would trade for Braylon AND give up a draft pick. The Steelers have TWO as well...and their #1 WR isn't one of the two. We have the best slot WR in the game...a solid #3 WR who can't get on the field...a STer posing as a WR...and a diva WR who can't catch the ball.


I think you mean,
Best Slot WR, Landry
solid #3 WR who can't get on the field, Higgins
a STer posing as a WR, Hodges
and a diva WR who can't catch the ball. Beckham, (but he CAN catch the ball)

Man why can't we see Higgins in the mix.
Caller to the postgame said it best, "good things happen for this team when Rahard Higgins plays"

Figure it out it's not, covid vaccines for God's sakes.
It's not Rocket Science get Higgins on the field,
Without telling me you have to sit Beckham or Landry,
I wasn't born yesterday.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/16/20 07:36 PM
Why don't we see Higgins more? Did anyone stop to consider that our last two HC's have determined that during practice, based on the actual evidence, that he hasn't earned more playing time?

I know the fan base who has no clue what goes on during practice feel they have some upper hand in what's going on, but somehow I seriously doubt that.

Or maybe it's just some conspiracy to keep better players off the field?
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Odell - 09/16/20 08:09 PM
Originally Posted By: Swish
well if the reports are BS, the national media certainly doesn't think so. all the major sports shows was talking about the report.

and lets be clear: they tend to be right about this team a hell of a lot more than not.


The national media doesn’t care if it’s true, as long as they can get clicks. It makes for a good story so they run with it.

Btw I only have seen the one person (Francesca) that has reported this. Everyone else is running with his reporting.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Odell - 09/16/20 08:09 PM
Plus, we already knew Higgins wasn't going to get a ton of opportunities. It's probably part of the reason why he could've left last offseason. Lots of guys that need touches/targets.
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: Odell - 09/16/20 08:19 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Why don't we see Higgins more? Did anyone stop to consider that our last two HC's have determined that during practice, based on the actual evidence, that he hasn't earned more playing time?

I know the fan base who has no clue what goes on during practice feel they have some upper hand in what's going on, but somehow I seriously doubt that.

Or maybe it's just some conspiracy to keep better players off the field?


As far as Dorsey/Kitchens, Higgins wasn't a real football player AKA Dorsey didn't draft/acquire him. It seemed like Dorsey's guys were put at the front of the line automatically.

I worry at times the new regime might rely too heavily on analytics. Higgins' SPARQ/workout numbers weren't very good. We'll see how it shakes out, though. Offense wasn't on the field long enough for starters to get too tired.
Posted By: waterdawg Re: Odell - 09/16/20 08:19 PM
The same two coaching staffs that wouldn't put Higgy on the field , are the same two that can't find away to get Chubb and Hunt on the field at the same time. Must be like Rocket science or something.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/16/20 08:24 PM
I'm slightly skeptical that the FO analytics department is telling the coaching staff which WR's should be getting playing time. I think the playing time id dependent on practice. You may be right that the former FO preferred their guys get more playing time. But then one would have to believe that the FO is dictating who gets playing time to the coaching staff for that to happen.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/16/20 08:24 PM
Maybe it's the fan base that thinks they're the rocket scientists?
Posted By: waterdawg Re: Odell - 09/16/20 08:27 PM
Good one .. Let me state right now ; No one has ever confused me with a Rocket Scientist !
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/16/20 08:35 PM
Maybe if I had said they think they know more than the previous two coaching staffs combined would have worked better.

But it was you that brought up the rocket scientist topic. wink
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Odell - 09/16/20 09:15 PM
Quote:
Did anyone stop to consider that our last two HC's have determined that during practice, based on the actual evidence, that he hasn't earned more playing time?


Yes, let's use our last two HCs, particularly the last one, as a good measuring stick for decision-making.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/16/20 10:29 PM
j/c:

Dorsey didn't want Higgins on the field? Who was the GM when Higgins had his only decent year?

Higgins is a JAG.



Moving on. We should start a poll to predict who will be the next target of the shield Baker campaign just in case the Browns do trade OBJ.
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Odell - 09/16/20 11:13 PM
I still believe Odell is a great player, but IMO, he is very immature. I would not be surprised if he is disappointed with Baker. Mayfield has not had an easy path, but blaming coaching changes and other things for a lack of basic fundamentals is a little too much for me. He is horrible after his first read, and predictable, when things break down. Learning a new system every year could be tough, but others have done it and still were able to perform. As for Odell, I would like to see the all 22 from Sunday's game, to see if he was getting open, and where the passes were being placed. I do think he lets people get in his head, and I don't like his body language, but he has the talent.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/16/20 11:22 PM
I agree w/almost all of that. He is immature. And he had an awful game on Sunday. Stepping out of bounds on the route was inexcusable. The drop that would have been a first down was terrible. I do think he worries too much about what people say. I do wonder if he has lost confidence in Baker. Do you remember the one fourth down play where it was 4th and 1 and we get a penalty to make it 4th and 6? Baker drops back and heaves it way downfield. I'm thinking why not just try and pick-up the first down, but then I see OBJ is wide open and Baker misses him by a mile. Stuff like that has to be frustrating.

The best thing for the Browns would be if Baker and OBJ both got on the same page and both started playing better. Both of them stunk on Sunday and both guys had too many bad plays last year. We need them to improve.
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Odell - 09/17/20 12:24 AM
He overthrew a couple long balls, can't remember who the other one was to. It has been said that Cousins struggled for a few weeks in this offense, then went on to have his best season. I hope that is what happens here.
Posted By: FORTBROWNFAN Re: Odell - 09/17/20 02:57 AM
I didn't do a lot of research on things OBJ has done and my "negative " opinion of him was founded on things I heard.

Tonight while out walking I was listening to his press conference podcast aired yesterday he changed my mind. He was very sincere and his answers were well thought out and I did not catch any arrogance or me too attitude.

I realize it does not prove anything but he sounds like a decent guy with a good attitude.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Odell - 09/17/20 07:54 AM
There's more to the issue than just an OBJ and/or Baker problem. First thing I noticed was the constant rolling out right. First, this narrows the field which limits Baker's targets. Second, all crossing patterns are now running into the defensive flow rather than having the defense play straight up. Third and most importantly, the CB's now can play tight because they will always have help over the top which reduces separation.

Baltimore obviously knew Baker would roll right and set up their defense accordingly. More often than not, a LB would come from the left with regular frequency. Baltimore narrowed the field and thus forced Baker to throw into tight windows because his options were reduced greatly.

Add into this that the Browns passed 59% of the snaps with what many might say as the best 1/2 RB's in football and the subsequent 3 fumbles, 1 int on what was supposed to be a run first team makes you take a deeper look.

IMHO, the Browns went to great length's to protect Wills. They went away from the run and limited Baker's opportunities to 50% of the field. Now, protecting Wills as he grows into the position might be warranted (limits the offense) at times but I expect the Bengals will take the same game plan tonight against the Browns.

Now I believe Baker needs to get better, I believe OBJ needs to get better but when you're limiting them to 50% of the field against a 100% defense you are going to fail or eventually make a mistake. The Browns have a 3rd year QB sitting on his 4th head coach and at least in game 1 went away from the run first offense and limited their QB to only 50% of the field against a 100% defense that knew what they were going to do.

Until the Browns play straight up on offense and allow Baker to have access to all his weapons the Browns will struggle, Baker will struggle, and OBJ will struggle. As a defense, if I know 75% of the time the QB will roll right and I can create 11 on 7 matchups - I'm pretty sure I will win more often than not.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Odell - 09/17/20 12:06 PM
Planning on re-watching the condensed version of the Baltimore game today. I'll see how many times he rolls right as a designed play - I didn't notice it so much during the game to be honest ... with reports of Wills struggling in TC, it might make sense to protect him against such a good D - but not if it comes at the expense of offensive efficiency.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Odell - 09/17/20 12:26 PM
Full interview later today....

Posted By: mac Re: Odell - 09/17/20 12:40 PM
WHAT..was the best thing that ever happened to him?

Be nice to know what he is talking about.
Posted By: FATE Re: Odell - 09/17/20 12:43 PM
Being quarantined, I believe he states that at the end.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Odell - 09/17/20 01:09 PM
Thank you for putting all that down 'on paper'.

The one thing I'll say is in regards to Cinci watching what Balt did and implementing that. Few teams have the 'horses' that Balt does on defense (much less offense). Seeing and understanding what needs to be done is one thing, but having the personnel to execute what they did is another matter. I think this is especially pertinent when going against a team like Cinci. Polar opposites, roster-wise.
Posted By: Dave Re: Odell - 09/17/20 01:15 PM
So all it took for Odell to get his groove back was being quarantined due to a pandemic?
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/17/20 01:22 PM
j/c:

I don't think that Baker rolled right all that much on Sunday. Certainly, not nearly as much as last year.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 09/17/20 03:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
j/c:

I don't think that Baker rolled right all that much on Sunday. Certainly, not nearly as much as last year.


I agree. Baker was great in the pocket. Only left when he had to.

That wasn't the issue at all. The issue was purely between the ears.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Odell - 09/17/20 03:26 PM
Posted By: WooferDawg Re: Odell - 09/17/20 03:29 PM
OBJ has no trade value as long as he is dropping 3rd and 2 uncontested passes.

He needs to step up his game, as the one he has going on is not very good.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Odell - 09/17/20 03:43 PM
Originally Posted By: ChargerDawg
OBJ has no trade value as long as he is dropping 3rd and 2 uncontested passes.

He needs to step up his game, as the one he has going on is not very good.


They both need to step up their game ... I don't think either one can use the other's performance as justification for a bad game. I'm looking forward to a chemistry developing and a W tonight ..... And I can't believe it but Joe Thomas is actually 100% wrong. The QB is 100% reliant on several others doing their job. [1] the OL for blocking for him, and they did that pretty well all things considered vs Ravens. [2] The QB is also 100% reliant on receivers catching the ball.... Dropped balls and catch-able balls that are tipped and intercepted kill kill drives.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/17/20 04:47 PM
Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Quote:
Did anyone stop to consider that our last two HC's have determined that during practice, based on the actual evidence, that he hasn't earned more playing time?


Yes, let's use our last two HCs, particularly the last one, as a good measuring stick for decision-making.


Maybe you should try getting into the HC interview process. Let's see how far you would get. Stefanski seems to be on the same page Freddie was in regards to Higgins. Maybe you should be saying he sucks too after only one game to help boost your argument? wink
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Odell - 09/17/20 09:39 PM
I don't think they were right as HC's and I have considered exactly that. We stuck with game-losing game plans and seldom improved major areas. Some of the silliest coaching I have seen happened last year. Not the yardstick needed. JMO.
Posted By: SunDawg Re: Odell - 09/17/20 11:01 PM
OBJ is trying to play himself out of Cleveland similar to the manner in which Amari Cooper did with the Raiders....drop enough balls, make enough bad plays and you will get your wish. Amari's dropsies disappeared fairly quickly in Dallas.

Just my $0.02
Posted By: mac Re: Odell - 09/18/20 01:10 PM
Odell actually had a decent game last night, catching 4 of the 6 passes targeted at him..74 yds and a TD.

The best way for Odell to get out of Cleveland is to bust his butt and showcase his talent.
Posted By: TrooperDawg Re: Odell - 09/18/20 01:59 PM
I was astounded that OBJ caught the long ball for the TD. It bounced off his FACEMASK before he gathered it in. Weird.
Posted By: FATE Re: Odell - 09/18/20 02:02 PM
Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg
I was astounded that OBJ caught the long ball for the TD. It bounced off his FACEMASK before he gathered it in. Weird.

Man, oh man... can you imagine if that perfect pass bounced off his face for in incompletion?? There's a damn decent possibility of a different outcome and him being run out of town this morning!

Game of inches!
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Odell - 09/18/20 11:46 PM
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Odell - 09/19/20 12:09 AM
I love those videos synched with Donovan
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Odell - 09/21/20 10:09 PM
GC, For what it's worth, I wondered what is the most catches Odell has had so far, in a game, in a Browns uniform. Figured it wasn't more than 11, but thought it was 8, turns out 8 is correct. (No thought good or bad on that number)

For what it is worth here are Odell's game by game stats since joining the Browns in 2019.

Win,Loss, Opponent, score, Catches/per targets Yards, Touchdowns.

Loss Tennessee, 13-43 7/11 71 0 tds

Win, @NYJets, 23-3 6/10 161 1 td

Loss LA Rams, 13-20 6/9 56 0 tds

Win, @ Baltimore, 40-25 2/7 20 0 tds

Loss, @ San Francisco, 3-31 2/6 27 0 tds

Loss, Seattle, 28-32 6/11 101 0 tds

Loss, @ NWE, 13-27 5/7 52 yds 0 tds

Loss, @ Denver, 19-24 5/6, 87 yds 0 tds

Win, Buffalo, 19-16, 5/12, 57 yds 0 tds

Win, Pittsburgh, 21-7, 4/10, 60 yds 0 tds

Win, Miami, 41-24, 6/8, 84 yds 1 td

Loss, @ Pittsburgh, 13-20, 3/6 29 yds 0 tds

Win, Cincinnati, 27-19, 2/5 39 yds 0 tds

Loss @ Arizona, 24-38, 8/13 66 yds 0 tds

Loss Baltimore, 15-31, 4/6 44 yds 1 td

Loss @ Cincinnati, 23-33, 3/6 81 yds 1 td

-----
That ends the 2019 season and Next is the start of the 2020 season
-----

Loss @ Baltimore, 6-38, 3/10 22 yds 0 tds

Win Cincinnati, 35-30, 4/6 74 yds 1 td

Current week.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Odell - 09/22/20 08:03 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Tony Grossi is literally the last person I would to listen to about anything to do with the Browns.


Doug Dieken also mentioned his body language. I agree with you on Grossi.


Reporting what you saw is one thing, giving advice. . .


GC. After 18 games in, can I as a fan finally accept Odell Beckaham, with whole heart as a Cleveland Browns fan, after all the free agent busts of the past

Does he finaly have that free agent label taken away, that other teams jersey blown off of him so to speak?
It's getting there.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Odell - 09/22/20 11:36 PM
IN 2001, Kevin Johnson,

had 6 or more catches in 8 of his 16 games, 3 the fewest, 9 the most.

Kevin Johnson also had 9 touchdowns, a game with 2, and the rest 1, or 0 per game. 1000+ yards that year, his best, the team went 7-9.
And Tim Couch mostly that whole year,

Odell reaches the 6 catches mark in 6 of his last 18 games 1/3rd
Kevin Johnson reached the 6 catch mark in 8 of 16 games that year, his best year, 1/2/half.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/23/20 04:05 PM
Did Kevin Johnson play that entire season injured?
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Odell - 09/27/20 01:03 AM
How many catches does Bekham end up with vs. Washington?

Over/Under. He has not had more than 8 in a Browns uniform,

He's the best WR in the world so I think set the over/under at 8,
catches on 10-11 targets,

if he gets 13 targets I want to see him get 10+ catches.

It is the NFL
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Odell - 09/27/20 09:24 AM
I’ll say he has another typical day for him ... something like 5 catches for 65 yards
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/27/20 11:38 AM
I have been waiting for this to make it to this thread, but I guess it doesn't fit w/the perception that OBJ is selfish and a cancer...

Quote:
Odell Beckham Jr. accepts he probably won't put up massive numbers in Browns' run-first offense

Published: Sep 25, 2020 at 09:37 AM
Kevin Patra


Odell Beckham Jr.'s expectations have been recalibrated after the first fortnight of the season displayed the type of offense that best suits the Cleveland Browns.

No longer is OBJ seeking to put up monster numbers, but rather be part of the cog that could make the Browns the best running team in the NFL.

"For me, one of my biggest growths has come in acceptance in a sense and for me knowing it's probably not going to be that kind of season [with huge numbers]," Beckham said Thursday, via the Cleveland Plain Dealer. "Like I always say, my goal is always going to be my goal, and I don't feel like I'm ever going to fall short of it. Like I said, learning and acceptance, so you set new goals.''

Beckham has seven catches for 96 yards and a TD through two games, most of that production coming in last Thursday's win over Cincinnati.

During the Week 2 victory, the Browns unleashed a two-headed monster out of the backfield in Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt. With the duo cooking, there is no better tandem in the NFL.

Beckham believes his duty now is to aid the Browns' running game, whether that's throwing a big block to spring one of them on the outside or stretching the field deep to keep safeties out of the box.

"Having a game within a game, working on a release during a run game or working something else, a new goal -- aside from winning always," he said. "Nick Chubb needs to be the No. 1 rusher in the league or Kareem, too, as well. You have two legitimate No. 1 backs in the backfield, and our team is very, very, very good at running the football, so you have to play to your strengths. Then I think you learn where you fit in and where you're able to make your plays and how you can help the team.''

Despite the comments flying in the face of the outside perception of OBJ as a selfish player who demands the ball and attention, those who dislike the star receiver are still likely to find something to nitpick with his newfound acceptance. It's rarely about the content but rather the character that enflames wanton criticism. More simply put: Haters gonna hate.

"I tell Chubb every day, 'I owe you. I owe you. I owe you,'" Beckham said. "I want that big block that springs him free just to see him running down the field, even though he's not going to give me any love after it and he's not going to have much emotion about it. Just to see him running free and down the sideline is going to be a great feeling.

"I think a lot of my growth came in acceptance, acceptance of life and acceptance of things and just knowing that's what it's going to be and finding a way to create that block that springs him or whatever it is to help us win."

If the Browns begin to win, the numbers will come for Beckham -- or defenses will have to live with Chubb and Hunt destroying them on the ground. Perhaps they won't be league-leading figures, but OBJ still plays a key role in Cleveland's offense. The wideout is at peace with that job.


https://www.nfl.com/news/odell-beckham-jr-accepts-his-role-in-browns-run-first-offense

Posted By: mac Re: Odell - 09/27/20 02:00 PM
Hopefully, Odell accepts whatever role or assignment he is expected to perform on every play.

He should be looking to sell a block on a "play/action pass" and bust off a big gain or a possible TD.

Just because the Browns' run game might be producing, it does not mean that the passing game can't be a potent option.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Odell - 09/27/20 10:01 PM
It is important that he know he is important to our wins. He didn't seem like he was crazy working his routes today, but I think I saw him doing his job. We got him the ball for some momentum catches. He owns a piece of the win. He can be a relentless threat even though he may not get the ball forced to him. Hats off to him as a success today. brownie
Posted By: Swish Re: Odell - 09/27/20 10:15 PM
OBJ and jarvis are out here trying to punish DBs in the run game.

OBJ always seemed to be the most excited when we scored. the guy just wants to win.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 09/27/20 10:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Swish
OBJ always seemed to be the most excited when we scored.


I noticed this today as well.

Man, I wanted to get him a dirty score late so bad.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: Odell - 09/27/20 11:31 PM
I think too often the discussion about Odell has fallen in to the "either or" trap that so many topics of all kinds falls in to these days. Like the ONLY 2 options are that Odell is a selfish cancer OR he's a model teammate everyone should aspire to be.

I don't think that's the case.

It's totally possible to have a great work ethic and be well liked, while at the same time be an attention whore who's antics can have a detrimental effect on the final product. While I don't think anyone can point to something specific he has done in the past that lost a game outright, or was just so egregious you could pin the season's woes squarely on him, things like the face shield, and the shoes, and constantly having to be shown where to line up... it reads as a guy who is well liked by his peers but also is on his own program. Being on one's own program isn't usually helpful to achieving team goals.

Again, I'm not pinning even a large part of last season's woes on Odell, but I do think he could have been more of a solution.

Having said that and dug up that little bit of dirt: those are all things we have not seen from him this year. We're not dealing with 15yrd penalties as we start to get some momentum because someone's shoes has too much glitter on them. When the offense lines up, everyone appears to know where they are supposed to be.

Between what we've seen from him so far this season and the interview you posted, it appears to me that Odell has taken a step forward in terms of his professional maturity. He seems to not only having bought in to the system, but also bought in to his role within that system. That's leadership. And the pay off from what I've seen the last couple of weeks is that this offense is much more cohesive and less forced. So maybe Odell didn't make the highlight reel this week. He made some important catches that helped prevent the Browns from being the same old Browns and letting WFT take over the game.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Odell - 09/28/20 02:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Swish
OBJ and jarvis are out here trying to punish DBs in the run game.



Kinda like our very own Hines Ward - x2.

Hines and that damned grin of his.... he LOVED to block in the run game and then would destroy us in the pass game. We just didn't get a play off from him. Now, we have two receivers every bit as talented as Hines, and more, that are also loving to block in the run game.

This bodes very, very well for us.
People need to let go of their hate for Odell image that is manufactured by the TMZ-ish media and learn to appreciate the football player we have on our team.
Posted By: CapCity Dawg Re: Odell - 09/28/20 05:09 PM
I think right now, OBJ has one more pass defended than Sandejo
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/28/20 06:24 PM
OBJ had his best game of the season yesterday according to PFF. His grade of 76.6 was 3rd on the offensive side of the ball, trailing only Bitonio and Teller.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/28/20 06:36 PM
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Originally Posted By: Swish
OBJ and jarvis are out here trying to punish DBs in the run game.



Kinda like our very own Hines Ward - x2.

Hines and that damned grin of his.... he LOVED to block in the run game and then would destroy us in the pass game. We just didn't get a play off from him. Now, we have two receivers every bit as talented as Hines, and more, that are also loving to block in the run game.

This bodes very, very well for us.
People need to let go of their hate for Odell image that is manufactured by the TMZ-ish media and learn to appreciate the football player we have on our team.


Hodge has been doing a great job of blocking downfield, as well.
Posted By: FATE Re: Odell - 09/28/20 06:52 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
OBJ had his best game of the season yesterday according to PFF. His grade of 76.6 was 3rd on the offensive side of the ball, trailing only Bitonio and Teller.

Solid game, and I doubt his PFF score was impacted by the fact that his best play was preventing the INT.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/28/20 06:55 PM
I wonder if they do include things like that? Probably not, but maybe.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Odell - 09/28/20 06:57 PM
I believe PFF do take that sort of play into account. Just like that play would count negatively towards Baker's grade. That's sort of the point/rationale of PFF grading the players performance rather than relying on stats.... Baker's throw 'could/should' have been an interception, he get's dinged for that more than a simple incompletion. OBJ preventing the play is a good play and his grade should reflect it. That's how my understanding of how PFF grades have always worked.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Odell - 09/28/20 07:01 PM
https://www.pff.com/grades

On the one example diagram for QB grading it states "Badly thrown ball that should have been intercepted" .... it doesn't go into WR analysis.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Odell - 09/28/20 08:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
OBJ had his best game of the season yesterday according to PFF. His grade of 76.6 was 3rd on the offensive side of the ball, trailing only Bitonio and Teller.


Things seemed different between him and Baker yesterday, in a good way. It seemed like they were in sync. Baker threw the ball to him with anticipation, which, to me, signifies more trust and understanding between the two.

Hope it continues on from here.
Posted By: FATE Re: Odell - 09/28/20 08:40 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
https://www.pff.com/grades

On the one example diagram for QB grading it states "Badly thrown ball that should have been intercepted" .... it doesn't go into WR analysis.

Well, according to the site's explanation for how WRs are graded, they wouldn't even receive credit for blocking. That wouldn't make much sense.
Posted By: CleVeLaNd_sTrife Re: Odell - 09/28/20 08:48 PM
Their ratings aren't complete that is for sure. I know the LB rankings are the most flawed. It's hard to find a LB who is graded over 70 on PFF.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 09/28/20 09:01 PM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
OBJ had his best game of the season yesterday according to PFF. His grade of 76.6 was 3rd on the offensive side of the ball, trailing only Bitonio and Teller.


Things seemed different between him and Baker yesterday, in a good way. It seemed like they were in sync. Baker threw the ball to him with anticipation, which, to me, signifies more trust and understanding between the two.

Hope it continues on from here.


Regardless of this, there is no way a WR of OBJ's caliber should be averaging 4 catches and 65 yds a game. Quite honestly that's pathetic. And an indictment on the QB.

I'm hoping OBJ can have some big games as the season progresses.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Odell - 09/28/20 09:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
OBJ had his best game of the season yesterday according to PFF. His grade of 76.6 was 3rd on the offensive side of the ball, trailing only Bitonio and Teller.


Things seemed different between him and Baker yesterday, in a good way. It seemed like they were in sync. Baker threw the ball to him with anticipation, which, to me, signifies more trust and understanding between the two.

Hope it continues on from here.


Regardless of this, there is no way a WR of OBJ's caliber should be averaging 4 catches and 65 yds a game. Quite honestly that's pathetic. And an indictment on the QB.

I'm hoping OBJ can have some big games as the season progresses.


Perhaps, and maybe not perhaps. We have Landry, as well, and tight ends, and a running game that is awesome.

It shouldn't be about individual stats, it should be about wins. JMO
Posted By: FATE Re: Odell - 09/28/20 09:43 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
OBJ had his best game of the season yesterday according to PFF. His grade of 76.6 was 3rd on the offensive side of the ball, trailing only Bitonio and Teller.


Things seemed different between him and Baker yesterday, in a good way. It seemed like they were in sync. Baker threw the ball to him with anticipation, which, to me, signifies more trust and understanding between the two.

Hope it continues on from here.


Regardless of this, there is no way a WR of OBJ's caliber should be averaging 4 catches and 65 yds a game. Quite honestly that's pathetic. And an indictment on the QB.

I'm hoping OBJ can have some big games as the season progresses.

So, averaging over 170yds per game rushing and averaging 8 different receivers catching passes per game has nothing to do with this, right?
Posted By: Hamfist Re: Odell - 09/28/20 09:51 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
OBJ had his best game of the season yesterday according to PFF. His grade of 76.6 was 3rd on the offensive side of the ball, trailing only Bitonio and Teller.


Things seemed different between him and Baker yesterday, in a good way. It seemed like they were in sync. Baker threw the ball to him with anticipation, which, to me, signifies more trust and understanding between the two.

Hope it continues on from here.


Regardless of this, there is no way a WR of OBJ's caliber should be averaging 4 catches and 65 yds a game. Quite honestly that's pathetic. And an indictment on the QB.

I'm hoping OBJ can have some big games as the season progresses.

You do realize that there is an offensive scheme at work here, correct? OBJ averaging 15+ YPC is not a bad thing.
Posted By: CleVeLaNd_sTrife Re: Odell - 09/28/20 11:00 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
OBJ had his best game of the season yesterday according to PFF. His grade of 76.6 was 3rd on the offensive side of the ball, trailing only Bitonio and Teller.


Things seemed different between him and Baker yesterday, in a good way. It seemed like they were in sync. Baker threw the ball to him with anticipation, which, to me, signifies more trust and understanding between the two.

Hope it continues on from here.


Regardless of this, there is no way a WR of OBJ's caliber should be averaging 4 catches and 65 yds a game. Quite honestly that's pathetic. And an indictment on the QB.

I'm hoping OBJ can have some big games as the season progresses.


This is such a bad take. This is the Colin Cowherd, Steven A. derivative garbage that I hear all day on ESPN.

Let's take everything out of context and ignore the fact that we are running for 175 yards a game and winning by two scores.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/28/20 11:04 PM
One thing for sure.......Baker's problems are always the fault of others and the struggles of others have absolutely nothing to do w/Baker. Such is DawgTalkers.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 09/28/20 11:09 PM
I got four posters pretty worked up.

And that's just the ones that responded.

LOL
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Odell - 09/28/20 11:19 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
I got four posters pretty worked up.

And that's just the ones that responded.

LOL


Seeing as how I wasn't 'pretty worked up', and really none of the replies were from people 'pretty worked up', to whom are you referring?
Posted By: FATE Re: Odell - 09/28/20 11:33 PM
Worked up lol?

You made an outrageous statement, people pointed it out! Don't flatter yourself. wink
Posted By: FATE Re: Odell - 09/28/20 11:37 PM
BTW... Since when is over 1000 yards per season "pathetic"? Asking for a friend.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Odell - 09/28/20 11:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
One thing for sure.......Baker's problems are always the fault of others and the struggles of others have absolutely nothing to do w/Baker. Such is DawgTalkers.


Based on your own standards of how you like to judge others and their posts ... this is a flat out lie.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/28/20 11:42 PM
I don't think Rish's statement was outrageous. Receivers are extremely dependent on their qbs.

Now, you might not agree w/Baker hurting OBJ.......but, QB play absolutely influences the production of a WR. Maybe more than any other single position/unit on the field.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Odell - 09/28/20 11:48 PM
No doubt. The qb throws the ball.

Here's the deal, for those attacking Baker. First, we have several receiver threats. Second, a ground game second to none. Third, if Baker is forced to feed OBJ, that kind of negates the other weapons, not?
Posted By: FATE Re: Odell - 09/28/20 11:57 PM
Well let's see. Since OBJ has put on the uniform he has dwarfed his career average in drops, hasn't shown that he knows the play book, has routinely not lined up in the right place or ran the correct pattern. Don't we all talk about "chemistry" and "rapport" between QBs and WRs? I would say they both need to hold up their end of the bargain before blame can be placed on either individually. And that's basically what the entire board has done since the beginning.

Yet - Rish says it is all Baker's fault.

"Quite honestly that's pathetic. And an indictment on the QB."

I do think it's outrageous, it totally ignores any responsibility by OBJ to hold up his end of the bargain and blames everything on the QB.

BTW... not getting into a useless argument over an outrageous statement, so this will be my last response on the "boo-hoo, poor OBJ" topic. wink
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 09/29/20 12:01 AM
OBJ's numbers are down because of Baker.

If I say it that way, is it still outrageous?
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 09/29/20 12:01 AM
I wasn't saying I agreed w/Rish. I was just saying it wasn't an outrageous statement. I don't think Baker has been very good and that effects OBJ, but I am not blaming Baker for all of it or even most of it. There are a lot of factors involved.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 09/29/20 12:09 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
I got four posters pretty worked up.

And that's just the ones that responded.

LOL


Seeing as how I wasn't 'pretty worked up', and really none of the replies were from people 'pretty worked up', to whom are you referring?


You, Fate, magee88, and strife.
Posted By: FATE Re: Odell - 09/29/20 12:11 AM
I guess it depends on the context and depth of the conversation. On the surface - there is truth to the statement. Blaming it all on Baker is, well, outrageous lol.

Quick question: What do you think is more responsible for OBJs "lack of production"...

A. Baker Mayfield

B. The most potent running attack in the NFL


BTW... Would it be outrageous to say Baker's numbers are down because of OBJ? poke
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 09/29/20 12:16 AM
I'm not even sure what we are debating. Your have a top 5 WR in the game. You have a QB who is really struggling. OBJ's numbers are down. OBJ didn't all of a sudden turn into a bad receiver. This isn't rocket science.

Is it 100% Baker's fault? Nothing is ever 100% someone's fault. But it's mostly on him.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Odell - 09/29/20 12:19 AM
If you think my calm statement of fact was "worked up", your ego is...........well...
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Odell - 09/29/20 12:19 AM
Bake hasn’t been “really struggling” the past two weeks.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 09/29/20 12:20 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
If you think my calm statement of fact was "worked up", your ego is...........well...


My ego is enormous.

Calm down dude.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Odell - 09/29/20 12:25 AM
Can't calm down anymore.....I'm so chill it's cool. You didn't get me, or anyone, worked up.
Posted By: FATE Re: Odell - 09/29/20 12:27 AM
Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Bake hasn’t been “really struggling” the past two weeks.
Don't you get it bro? He hasn't been perfect, therefore he sucks. And the worst part... OBJ is only on pace for 1000 yards... because that's what matters.

"Really struggling", another ridiculous statement. rofl
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 09/29/20 12:28 AM
I like you Arch.

I'm glad you didn't get worked up.
Posted By: Hamfist A musing about Odell - 09/29/20 02:42 AM
So, as I read the Odell thread, a thought popped into mind.

I wonder if Odell, as good as he is, is happier being a player instead of The Man.

Bear with me here.

From a quick bit of google, I see that he was only on one winning team with the Giants, although he was their (arguably) best player for those years.

Now as The Man in NY, the pressure was on him constantly to be the hero and win games. I bet that pressure can really grind on you.

So he comes here, and is expected to be The Man, and win games and catch everything and get 200 yards per game. Once again, here comes the grinding pressure.

On to this season.

Stefanski tells him what the offense is going to be. OBJ is now no longer going to have to shoulder the mantle of The Man. He can pass that pressure off to Mayfield and Chubb and Hunt, and just be the player WR1. He seems to be a bit looser in games, playing ball like he did at LSU, enjoying the blocking and the success of his teammates.

Is he happier? I don’t know.

Will he be happier on a team that is winning even if he’s not the centerpiece? I don’t know.

Just a little musing on his state of mind in the new setting.

Feel free to opine.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: A musing about Odell - 09/29/20 12:14 PM
I posted an article about OBJ's attitude and his role on the previous page. You can read it there or click here:
https://www.nfl.com/news/odell-beckham-jr-accepts-his-role-in-browns-run-first-offense
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 09/29/20 03:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
One thing for sure.......Baker's problems are always the fault of others and the struggles of others have absolutely nothing to do w/Baker. Such is DawgTalkers.


So Baker followed the play calling. Did what was asked of him. He went 16-23 for 2td's and no int's.

In light of that, what would his problems be?
Posted By: Hamfist Re: A musing about Odell - 09/29/20 05:14 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I posted an article about OBJ's attitude and his role on the previous page. You can read it there or click here:
https://www.nfl.com/news/odell-beckham-jr-accepts-his-role-in-browns-run-first-offense

I did read that, and was pleasantly surprised by his candor.
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: A musing about Odell - 09/29/20 07:01 PM
This is one of the more interesting takes I've read.
Food for thought.

Of course, it's impossible to know for sure, but it most definitely doesn't fall outside the realm of possibility.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Odell - 10/04/20 08:33 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
I dont see us being able to trade OBJ .. maybe for like a 6th rounder


Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Odell - 10/04/20 09:27 PM
I could live with those numbers every game. Not sure what the rating is like that yet. But it seems as we are getting into people and production, BM is doing quite well. What is the knock for on winning.

No lead is safe with this secondary; hope we get to keep looking there. Is it people, or is it what is taught/ called? You win (and lose) with people like the book said.

FYI: I checked. Three in row for wins is technically termed a "streak" in NFL parlance. We are free to use it as such in our discussions and posting this week. Enjoy among yourselves! nanner brownie
Posted By: Swish Re: Odell - 10/04/20 09:29 PM
O

B

JAAAAAAAAAYYYY

shoutout to all the posters and haters in the national media that said we needed to trade him!
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Odell - 10/04/20 09:47 PM
I was one of them -slightly - but I love him this evening. smile
Posted By: Tulsa Re: Odell - 10/04/20 09:51 PM
Originally Posted By: Bard Dawg
I could live with those numbers every game. Not sure what the rating is like that yet. But it seems as we are getting into people and production, BM is doing quite well. What is the knock for on winning.

No lead is safe with this secondary; hope we get to keep looking there. Is it people, or is it what is taught/ called? You win (and lose) with people like the book said.

FYI: I checked. Three in row for wins is technically termed a "streak" in NFL parlance. We are free to use it as such in our discussions and posting this week. Enjoy among yourselves! nanner brownie


That may be what streak means in the NFL, but in fandom streak means in your shorts, like the team gave us most of the 4th quarter.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Odell - 10/04/20 09:54 PM
It got more tense than it should have, but the prevent was the right call there. Mostly.
Posted By: cle23 Re: Odell - 10/04/20 10:15 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
I'm not even sure what we are debating. Your have a top 5 WR in the game. You have a QB who is really struggling. OBJ's numbers are down. OBJ didn't all of a sudden turn into a bad receiver. This isn't rocket science.

Is it 100% Baker's fault? Nothing is ever 100% someone's fault. But it's mostly on him.


The Giants always had a terrible run game while Beckham was there. He is now on the best running team in the NFL. He is going to have lower numbers. Beckham isn't the focal point in Cleveland as he was in New York. That, and he didn't have many great receivers with him. Here at have more options.
Posted By: hitt Re: Odell - 10/05/20 12:29 AM
Very happy for Odell AND the TEAM. Ain't it wonderful to see the players and coaches respecting each other AND playing as a team.
Most valuable person on team....lots of them, but my money is on Coach S. He's made a hell of a difference...all the coaches, Bill C. is gold....players play but Coach S has them pulling together.....GO Browns!!!!
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Odell - 10/05/20 12:54 AM
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Odell - 10/05/20 02:03 AM
Well we all know a big play when we see it, and a TD, a catch. He is coming along as we get this run thing established. part of his game is blocks. I was happy for him myself. Wins feel good.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 10/05/20 02:06 AM
Thank God Dorsey made the trade. Thank God Berry didn't listen to the idiots and said "we are not trading OBJ." Dude is a difference maker and thank God we have him.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Odell - 10/05/20 04:16 AM
https://twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1312849246903705600
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Odell - 10/06/20 04:47 PM
Beats by Beckham.

Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 10/06/20 05:26 PM
Quote:
Another bad day for the OBJ is a bad teammate crowd.


Nice... grin
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Odell - 10/06/20 05:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Beats by Beckham.



Everyone knows that Beats headphones are overpriced yet substandard pieces of audio equipment. OBJ robbing his teammates of fully enjoying their music. tRaDe HiM nOw!!!!111!
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Odell - 10/06/20 06:42 PM
Would have been nice if he sprung for the Bose.

Pretty cheap.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 10/06/20 07:04 PM
I don't know of an "Odell is a bad teammate" crowd. However, I have seen - and am a part of - an "Odell needs to be held accountable" crowd.

Much of the bashing he has taken - on this board anyway - he earned by being disinterested, dropping passes, displaying terrible body language, not knowing where to line up, missing a 3rd & goal play because of a visor, etc. In the Ravens game, he picked up where he left off in a disappointing 2018 season. He deserved the bashing he received.

That ^ OBJ was missing in these last three games...thankfully.

No one on this board has any idea if he WAS a bad teammate or changed as a teammate after week #1 or after he bought the presents. If he were a bad teammate, no one would state so publicly.

OBJ's play has been excellent since the Opener...but his time here through that Opener was not good...not at all...and he brought that well-desreved bashing on himself.

OBJ will have no problems endearing himself to Browns fans if he's the game #2 thru game #4 Odell.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Odell - 10/06/20 07:08 PM
Bose makes air travel tolerable.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Odell - 10/06/20 07:13 PM
I'll be serious for a sec. I was sorta in the trade OBJ crowd, but not because 'we gotta cut out the cancer'. This offense has a LOT of mouths to feed, and a QB that I'm not 100% confident can do it. I was assuming that OBJ was going to be the odd man out in a run-heavy offense, but interestingly it's actually been our shiny new (and very expensive) FA TE that hasn't gotten a ton of targets. I didn't think that would happen.

As for OBJ's attitude... he's a diva. A diva that, by all accounts coming out of his locker rooms, is a good teammate. I my head, I gave just about everyone on this team a fresh start/clean-slate coming out of the Freddie era. I wasn't sure what to make of the attitude during the opener, but it sounds like Stefanski kinda knows what he's doing. I've seen articles where he's specifically talked about molding the gameplan to get OBJ involved early in games. I read that kinda along the lines of the "force-feeding OBJ" conversations here, but this time it seems to be working.
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Odell - 10/06/20 07:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Would have been nice if he sprung for the Bose.

Pretty cheap.



I own a pair of Grado headphones that’ll smoke Bose. It ain’t even close. OBJ needs to step up beyond the Beats hype for sure.
https://gradolabs.com/headphones
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Odell - 10/06/20 07:43 PM
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
I don't know of an "Odell is a bad teammate" crowd. However, I have seen - and am a part of - an "Odell needs to be held accountable" crowd.


100%.

I wasn't happy about the last year's early season watch and other game day dress violations .... but in the grand scheme of things I think he has not been a distraction as a Brown. Game day - injury aside - not knowing where to line up was pee poor. But this year he has been 100% from my perspective.

I don't know if there is/was a trade Odell crowd - I did see comments about how he was an elite WR being held back by a crappy QB and we should trade him for Odell's own good.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Odell - 10/06/20 08:58 PM
j/c...

Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Odell - 10/06/20 09:31 PM
Gotta love Jimmy D
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 10/06/20 10:57 PM
I suggest you re-read this thread. For example, mac said he was a cancer before he ever came to the Browns. I posted an article about how his teammates felt about him and that was met w/something like "what were they supposed to say?" One dude kept calling him Braylon. Some said he was disinterested and pouting. That he wasn't trying. It's all in this thread alone, not to mention other threads.

Look, I'm okay w/you guys not liking him and getting on his case, but let's not rewrite history.
Posted By: TrooperDawg Re: Odell - 10/06/20 11:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



It just hit me where I've seen that Odell pose before, lol.

Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Odell - 10/07/20 12:02 AM
It wouldn't be cool to continue an argument that nobody was having, in order to say that nobody should be arguing it,
and thus inviting responses so noone can let an issue drop,

Just in the futile hope that holding the wrong side of an argument would, in enough time, look less like being the wrong side.

But nobody would do that on this board, and

It also wouldn't be cool to spread discord between a starting quarterback and the #1 wide receiver by forcing an argument where the two must be opposite sides of a coin that must be chosen, so disparaging comments can Cut Down the other one on an ongoing basis,

But nobody on this board would do that either.

Again, it wouldn't be cool to fabricate some unexpressed opinion or belief being held about the performance of some former general manager, and then mount a campaign against that belief, in order to deflect negative opinions about an historicaly underperforming head coach, and gang up with a couple others to propagate that campaign, to a result of spreading discord amongst the board by presenting a situation where the HC, and former GM must be two opposite sides of a coin to be chosen, so disparaging comments can discount opposing views or opinions, in perpetuity;
But I'm pretty sure somehow that DiD happen on this board,

Yet, even though, letting things go, and like the first line,
Not, Continuing an argument that nobody was having, in order to say nobody should hold that side or view, thus inviting responses which create an argument where one didn't already exist...

Apparently for the sake of needing to be right! On an issue that doesn't exist,

well now that I look at it, sounds a little bit like going out of ones way to just say that, or single out folks that weren't doing anything, in order to say that they are wrong!

But that kind of thing wouldn't happen here, because that would be argumentative, or bullying like.

Forget it. I give up. Some things aren't fun to read.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 10/07/20 01:31 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I suggest you re-read this thread. For example, mac said he was a cancer before he ever came to the Browns. I posted an article about how his teammates felt about him and that was met w/something like "what were they supposed to say?" One dude kept calling him Braylon. Some said he was disinterested and pouting. That he wasn't trying. It's all in this thread alone, not to mention other threads.

Look, I'm okay w/you guys not liking him and getting on his case, but let's not rewrite history.


I'm aware of the content of the thread and I'm the guy who started calling him Braylon...because during his time here through the Ravens game he was the second-coming of Braylon. Ineffective, ball-dropping, distracting, unavailable, unaware, pouting, etc.

Thankfully he's turned that switch since the Ravens debacle. My concern is how he will behave when the going gets tough again...CIN, WAS DAL are no where near the caliber of BAL...but he's earned the benefit of the doubt since the end of week #1.

As far as his standing as a teammate, I pay very little attention to any posters' comments about any player as a teammate. No fan really has any idea. (Look at Earl Thomas now vs then.)

I pay a little more attention when a teammate comments about another teammate...but I take that with a grain of salt...same with coaches. The reason is that we'll never really know the whole story. These guys are pros...they don't have to like each other to get the job(s) done.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Odell - 10/07/20 02:40 PM
So rather than listen to people close to the situation you base your opinion off of. . . nothing?

Also, we found out about all the Earl Thomas stuff after he was cut (and a day or two before he was cut). Usually dirty laundry will be aired after a player leaves a team. OBJ’s former Giant teammates had nothing but kind words.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 10/07/20 03:15 PM
He played all of last season with a very painful injury. That's not a selfish player. That's a team player. You don't like his antics? So be it.

What we are seeing is the difference between an injured OBJ last season and a healthy OBJ this season. Maybe it's time you went beyond your personal agenda and deal with the facts.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 10/07/20 04:14 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
So rather than listen to people close to the situation you base your opinion off of. . . nothing?


I was very clear that I wasn't listening to anyone about OBJ the teammate...regarding his actual play on the field, I used my eyes to see how he played and behaved in 2019 and then again in game 1 of 2020.

Quote:
Also, we found out about all the Earl Thomas stuff after he was cut (and a day or two before he was cut). Usually dirty laundry will be aired after a player leaves a team. OBJ’s former Giant teammates had nothing but kind words.


I agree with your comments on Earl Thomas and I used him as an example in general...not necessarily towards OBJ...and primarily because OBJ is still here. To your point, OBJ hasn't left Cleveland yet...if he is being a bad teammate (I'm not saying he is) we sure as hell aren't going to hear about it while he's a Brown.

What he was as a Giant has no bearing - good or bad - on my opinion of him as a Brown. He's been terrific game #2 through #4. I hope he continues that.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 10/07/20 04:22 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
He played all of last season with a very painful injury. That's not a selfish player. That's a team player. You don't like his antics? So be it.

What we are seeing is the difference between an injured OBJ last season and a healthy OBJ this season. Maybe it's time you went beyond your personal agenda and deal with the facts.


I never said he was a selfish player...and if he WAS selfish and did his job, I wouldn't care. Once again you are creating an argument that only exists in your mind.

I don't care about his antics or fines etc. BUT...when he has to leave the field on 3rd and goal because of his visor...I'm going to let him have it.

Maybe it's time you get the point that OBJ looked just as bad in game #1 THIS year as he did all of last year - injury or not. That's not an agenda, that's what he was doing.

I've given him credit for his play since game #1.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 10/07/20 04:25 PM
I see. The fact he didn't light it up the first week of the season means something to you. And you still refuse to address that him being hurt all of last season as a legitimate reason for his lack of production. Got it.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 10/07/20 04:35 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I see. The fact he didn't light it up the first week of the season means something to you. And you still refuse to address that him being hurt all of last season as a legitimate reason for his lack of production. Got it.


No you don't "Got it"...you rarely do.

You brought up two new arguments there that exist only in your mind.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 10/07/20 06:10 PM
OBJ playing injured last season isn't an argument, it's a fact. Since we're speaking of getting it wrong.

If you aren't ignoring it, then he has played well in 75% of the games he has been healthy. Which blows your entire narrative out of the water.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Odell - 10/07/20 08:15 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
OBJ playing injured last season isn't an argument...


I agree...it's another reason why I keep telling you that you are arguing with yourself...again.

His visor wasn't injured...his inability to line up properly wasn't because he was injured...his hands weren't injured...his body language wasn't miserable due to an injury.

He's been a different guy since the start of game #2.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 10/07/20 11:08 PM
I am not getting on you at all and I don't like all the attack style posts from others. I will just say that OBJ's lack of practice time might have had something to do w/how comfortable he was in regards to "lining up." Also, I think that entire thing was overblown. I see QBs directing WRs. TEs, RBs all the time. It's not all that unusual. Again, I am not calling you out or trying to argue. Just trying to give people something else to consider.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 10/08/20 02:51 PM
He's the guy he used to since game two. Now that he's healed.
Posted By: leadtheway Re: Odell - 10/08/20 03:28 PM
I don't get all the Odell hate, the guy is electric, likes to have fun playing football, has an immense desire to win and is LOVED by his teammates wherever he goes. I haven't heard any teammate or coach say anything negative about him. All I've heard are positive stories how he helps everyone out on the team from the best to guys that won't even make it on a roster during camp. QB has always held him back from being what he can and thats no different here. We have alot of issues but I don't think Odell is even remotely close to being one of them. He and landry together are perfect and it just so happens they are brothers from another mother. So you don't have two alphas complaining about not getting the ball.
Posted By: mac Re: Odell - 10/08/20 05:08 PM
JC...

The Odell I watched against the Cowboys appeared to be a player who is settling into a comfort zone in Stefanski's offense.

The offensive coaches are finding different ways to use OBJ's talent and it's paying off with a TD rushing and a TD receiving on a fake reverse pass, Landry to OBJ against the Boys. Odell and the offensive coaching staff are happy and that is a good thing. 

Also, Odell's TD celebrations...he acted like someone who had scored a touchdown before! Rather than using his TD celebration to simulate something to gain more YT looks.

Hopefully Browns fans are witnessing a moment in time showing how OBJ has matured as a man and football player. BUT, while I like what I'm seeing from OBJ on the field against the Cowboys...WILL IT CONTINUE?

Will OBJ continue to be the type of teammate who accepts his role as one of the eleven players working together to achieve "the team's" goal?

...I hope so!
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 10/08/20 06:57 PM
j/c

Have you ever noticed the huge double standard often used on this board?

Many blame Kitchens for Baker's poor performance last year and I'm in agreement with them to some extent.

Then when it comes to OBJ, everything falls on his shoulders and you never hear Kitchen's name mentioned.

Weird.
Posted By: Hamfist Re: Odell - 10/08/20 09:38 PM

Tom Withers
@twithersAP
Landry said he's not seen
@obj
this content, healthy and focused since they were at LSU.

Great news.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Odell - 10/09/20 05:56 PM
Is Odell, more dangerous as a deep threat,
Or more dangerous as a mid level take it and go threat?
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Odell - 10/09/20 06:03 PM
I would say both.
Posted By: FATE Re: Odell - 10/09/20 06:14 PM
Odell is dangerous at every level.

If I had to pick one, I'd say "take it and go".
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Odell - 10/09/20 06:49 PM
I think any Wr, is better as part of a group, of other capable top notch Wr's than they are on their own.

Case.
I think Micheal Irvin, was better, the years Alvin Harper played across from him.

I'm bothered, that I think Odell has fewer top notch capable Wr's around him, than the team had in 2018, even if he wasn't a Brown yet,
if those other options were still around and seeing the field, Callaway, Perriman, Higgins, the group would be more prolific than the single option.

They need to make up the difference,
with the tight ends, in 2020.

I mean, Hodge is not going to do it? Is he?

Maybe, I've been wrong before, let's see Hodge go take over a game on offense?

And I'm not forgetting Landry, Landry is the Landry he is. That's two.
That's not a group, a group is not a duo.
Odell Becham had 3 touchdowns combined and 150+ combined yards vs the Cowboys, (maybe the colts,);

his best touchdown day including all of last year;
So, is the Beckham trade finally paying off. thumbsup
Sure. When he decides to get after it, he can succeed and be a rock star. We have seen him marginal this year as well. He needs to decide which will show up, I guess. Stefanski's game plan has helped last few weeks after that stinker of an opener. OBJ is not a one-man show. That helps him too.
Odell is a lot like numerous posters on this board.

When winning, he is fine...

When losing, he is a vocal malcontent. As long as the Browns are winning, he will be a happy camper.

It is neither good nor bad, it is his personality.
Quote:
When winning, he is fine...

When losing, he is a vocal malcontent.



Would you please post some links that prove that Odell was a "vocal malcontent" when we were losing?

I think that claim is complete BS! I think that Odell has kept his mouth shut since he's been here and I also think a lot of other WRs would have been going off if they were in his situation and possessed even a fraction of his talent.
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
When winning, he is fine...

When losing, he is a vocal malcontent.



Would you please post some links that prove that Odell was a "vocal malcontent" when we were losing?

I think that claim is complete BS! I think that Odell has kept his mouth shut since he's been here and I also think a lot of other WRs would have been going off if they were in his situation and possessed even a fraction of his talent.


He is just parroting the talking heads of ESPN. He has no evidence. This is the same thing that they do when we lose a game.

All Odell talks about after a loss is winning and finding ways to help the team win.
You expect someone to post a link to what anyone could observe when they watched the broadcast, body language and mannerisms, in game 1,
I had moved on from this, but whoever it was you are asking a link from reminded me,
they actually made a point.

Nobody needs to post a link, it's observable.

I think Odell is playing like he wants to be on the team by what we can see on the broadcast, smiling, celebrating,

He had his best game we should be happy.
Hi Throw. He clearly said "vocal malcontent." Put the drugs away and read what was said.
Just how many times will this be on the thread? Well for now he is not going anywhere. But despite being a Prima Donna, when it counts he does come through.
Prima donna aside (if you can do that for a moment - harder in some cases than for others), I feel good about the game performance trend. He looked bad and played worse against the Rats. He has looked much better last two games. Acted better and less miserable too.
Rumors are ESPN and other talking heads do line up to throw the worst light on Browns, players and team. Piling on. Not that they have any room to talk as screaming suits. Ginned up artificial controversy as they explain their "take" like it is factual. Actually quite fatuous instead. Like shouting at each other makes the reasoning superior. I think he is trending to improvement as we win. Others deserve more criticism more, but I also hope he elevates even more, and is well.
You know I'm NOT one of the people that wants to throw OBJ under the bus because he's not a choir boy. But what he's saying (the way he's saying it) here isn't inaccurate or misleading. You saw the clips last year of OBJ not going to the huddle and not running his route when he knew the ball wasn't coming to him.

Maybe malcontent isn't the right word (maybe), but the bad behavior does flow out of him when things aren't going well. It is definitely blown out or proportion, and teammates do say he's a good dude in the locker room, but there are also examples of him mentally checking out of games.
I don't know about being a vocal malcontent.

He can, and is, often very visibly upset when things are not going well, as I expect most any competitive player to be. This does not mean he is a malcontent.
When I hear the words "vocal malcontent," they mean that the guy is complaining in the practice facility and in the media. Those kind of guys can do a lot of damage. I have not seen OBJ complaining in the media even when things were really bad here last year. He certainly did not call people out like Stephon Diggs did last year in Minnesota.
Hey Bard, I have been listening to a lot of guys on ESPN talk about the Browns. Most of their comments are positive and it seems that most are really hoping the Browns do well. I think a lot of people view us the way people used to see the Cubs.
OBJ did (undeservedly, IMO) get himself a reputation along the lines of what we're talking about here. He does do some weird stuff when things aren't going well... but to your point, I don't think it rises to the level of damaging (like the example you gave). His behavior does leave a lot to be desired at times, but I do think it's blown out of proportion.
There was a sport's talk radio show host in NY by the name of Mike Francesa who despised [seemingly] OBJ. He got a lot of mileage trashing OBJ. Interestingly, he is the one who recently said the Browns were trying to trade OBJ. The Browns FO denied it.

OBJ did do some really dumb things like the fight w/Norman and the kicking net junk. However, his teammates at LSU, New York, and in Cleveland overwhelmingly like the guy. I just don't think that would be the case if he was a vocal malcontent .
OBJ is a very vocal, passionate guy. But I can't find anything of him trashing Eli Manning, or the Giants, or the Browns last year. This idea that he some kind of Terrell Owens 2.0 is ridicules. Everything I've ready from his former teammates is all positive, they seem to love the guy.

And Mike Francesa is a total NYC hack, who just tries to start crap, so people will listen to his crappy radio show. He use to do college basketball on CBS, and that was the worst.
Posted By: FATE Re: Odell - 10/16/20 01:19 PM
Let's be real, the media twists and turns everything and creates all these "personas", they don't really exist in real life anyway. Just last year, the media did its best to tag Myles as "big angry black man".

If I were to tag Odell's past "indiscretions", it would be mostly immature. Imagine that -- Twenty-three year old with good looks and millions (not to mention a HOF trajectory) in the Big Apple and enjoying the face-time.

That's where the stalking of Odell began. Once you are a regular fixture, they don't want you out of the picture because you put food on the table.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Odell - 10/16/20 04:03 PM
j/c

I don't want players who appear happy or content when we lose. I want to see they are visibly upset when the team is failing. I don't want guys here who go to the press complaining about their coaches or team mates.

OBJ works fine for me.
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
When winning, he is fine...

When losing, he is a vocal malcontent.



Would you please post some links that prove that Odell was a "vocal malcontent" when we were losing?

I think that claim is complete BS! I think that Odell has kept his mouth shut since he's been here and I also think a lot of other WRs would have been going off if they were in his situation and possessed even a fraction of his talent.


Others have answered, sidelines mannerism show that he wears his emotions on his sleeve. There is nothing wrong about this at all, let's just say that his demeanor was not the same as Eli Manning.

When your losing it is more obvious. Some would call that "having a passion for the game"
j/c:

Free Odell?

We need to have a rule banning posting SAS videos on here.
j/c...

He definitely said those things in the video, but pulling out those parts makes Trotter look like he has an axe to grind.

98% of that blurb with OBJ was him talking about/explaining his behavior on the sideline. Trotter didn't even pick out the actual bits of news. OBJ has a "turf toe issue" and was taken out of the Pitt game (hence the shoes off).
Nothing but a loud mouth who might have a direct line to some malcontent.

The melt down begins...
I'd rather ban Jake Trotter tweets if he is going to skip important parts of the video and only provide the text that makes OBJ look bad.

No mention of the toe injury. No mention of the coach taking him out. No mention of him wanting to compete until the end whether they are winning or losing by 50 points, etc, etc.
And mac bit on it like cheap fishing bait.
Originally Posted By: mac
Nothing but a loud mouth who might have a direct line to some malcontent.

The melt down begins...


Did you bother watching the actual video or did you just buy into what Trotter was selling you?
Fair trade, imo. :-p
Hey oober, I get that SAS is loud and he puts on a show, but some fair points were made, especially by Ryan Clarke and Max Kellerman. Even SAS had a fair point or two. I will admit most of it was just for show.

I do feel that we are wasting his talents. I feel our entire offense is being wasted. We have the talent to win now at most positions and it kind of sucks that we probably aren't going to able to fully take advantage of OBJ, Landry, Chubb, Hunt, Hooper, and a very good OL.

Sooner or later, something is going to give because guys will probably get frustrated.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Odell - 10/21/20 05:38 PM


But but but
j/c

I was initially perturbed that he was walking around with his cleats off...then I got to thinking about some young soccer players that I watch on my son's team(s) - 25+ year olds and a rec league of mostly former high school varsity players.

Anyway, these guys cannot get their cleats off fast enough after they are done playing. The rubber from the turf gets in their shoes and the shoes they wear are usually fairly tight to help with quick movements. These are amateurs...some really good athletes...but none of them are at an OBL level.

I'm very critical of OBJ, but I have enough sense to wait and see what transpires before jumping off the cliff. His interview above was about three times longer than it needed to be...coach took him out for the day, toe is banged up and I want to win really badly. That's my takeaway...glad he talked about it.
Yeah - I am still disappointed he didn't know the playbook last year. There isn't an excuse for that. But OBJ has a lot of credit in the bank for his attitude and behavior while as a Brown. Whether you want to blame Freddie or Baker or both for what a cluster that was last year, OBJ didn't create controversy. No idea what condition his toe is in - but this one outburst at the end of an real ass whopping is not going to make me criticize him.
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Hey oober, I get that SAS is loud and he puts on a show, but some fair points were made, especially by Ryan Clarke and Max Kellerman. Even SAS had a fair point or two. I will admit most of it was just for show.

I do feel that we are wasting his talents. I feel our entire offense is being wasted. We have the talent to win now at most positions and it kind of sucks that we probably aren't going to able to fully take advantage of OBJ, Landry, Chubb, Hunt, Hooper, and a very good OL.

Sooner or later, something is going to give because guys will probably get frustrated.


Not only that but you saw how our D reacted after the pick, they just gave up.
If Odell is any Good?

He ought to catch the Ball more than 6 times, or even 6 times on the day,

Way more often than he does.
It would have been hard to have 6 catches last week since he was only targeted 3 times.
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
It would have been hard to have 6 catches last week since he was only targeted 3 times.


What the hell does that have to do with anything? LOL
It seems like Baker is a different player with and without Beckham on the field.

No OBJ - lion
With OBJ - kitten.

I really think Baker is intimidated by Beckham
Posted By: PastorMarc Re: Odell - 10/25/20 08:51 PM
Can't believe I forgot to mention Hollywood he is awesome and he and Baker are good together thumbsup
Originally Posted By: Jester
It seems like Baker is a different player with and without Beckham on the field.

No OBJ - lion
With OBJ - kitten.

I really think Baker is intimidated by Beckham


Yes that must be it... LoL
Originally Posted By: Jester
It seems like Baker is a different player with and without Beckham on the field.

No OBJ - lion
With OBJ - kitten.

I really think Baker is intimidated by Beckham



I don't think intimidated, but OB may be in his head, or the coaching staffs head.

I don't think OB plays to Bakers strength. Baker is strong with quick hitters. I am not talking dink and dunk stuff, just not deep stuff.

If I was Berry I might hit the phones and seek to trade OBJ. He is a great talent, but he needs a certain type of QB, and Baker isn't that type of QB.
hope he is ok
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
hope he is ok


I just read a bit on Cleveland.com saying we fear it is serious and he may be out the rest of the season.
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
hope he is ok


I just read a bit on Cleveland.com saying we fear it is serious and he may be out the rest of the season.


That would be typical Browns luck.
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/10...i-tomorrow.html

The link to the OB injury
I'm of a small notion to go back to the draft day posts and see what we all thought of Donovan..

dang did they all get deleted when we closed down the draft forum?
Originally Posted By: SaintDawg
I'm of a small notion to go back to the draft day posts and see what we all thought of Donovan..

dang did they all get deleted when we closed down the draft forum?


https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1757796/1
thanks.. appears like most here said Meh..
I think pretty much everyone at this point wants to trade OBJ. Its what must happen in order for Baker to regain his confidence and become the alpha in the locker room, it is a MUST.

Trade OBJ for a safety. Do it as soon as he's healthy, do not re-sign him either. Its not a slight to OBJ either but he just hasn't worked out here, just hasn't. Time to move on from him.

Our starting WR's should be:

Landry (Better than OBJ)
Hollywood Higgins
Peoples Jones
KaDarel Hodge

Simple as that. These guys work and word hard, they're not divas.
Eck!
Originally Posted By: tastybrownies
I think pretty much everyone at this point wants to trade OBJ. Its what must happen in order for Baker to regain his confidence and become the alpha in the locker room, it is a MUST.

Trade OBJ for a safety. Do it as soon as he's healthy, do not re-sign him either. Its not a slight to OBJ either but he just hasn't worked out here, just hasn't. Time to move on from him.

Our starting WR's should be:

Landry (Better than OBJ)
Hollywood Higgins
Peoples Jones
KaDarel Hodge

Simple as that. These guys work and word hard, they're not divas.


I dont want to trade OBJ. Baker has no weird issue with OBJ on the field. Its in your imagination.
Baker's problems weren't because OBJ was on the field. You don't trade one of the best receivers in the league because the qb suddenly pulled his head out of his arse after the injury.
I agree with you.
OBJ is a premier athlete but Baker is a completely different Qb when OBJ is in the field.
Don't know for sure why but it it pretty clear that is the case.
Originally Posted By: Jester
I agree with you.
OBJ is a premier athlete but Baker is a completely different Qb when OBJ is in the field.
Don't know for sure why but it it pretty clear that is the case.


We were playing Cinci. How did we do against Cinci the first time we played them this year? Did we get shut out or something.

People love to scream "agenda" and question fandom if one uses film breakdowns, analytical stats, etc to evaluate Baker, but people have no problem just trashing OBJ w/out any evidence at all to support their biased opinions.
The weird part is I can't explain or articulate why really, its just a feeling I have. You can see the difference on the field though and it's clear. To say otherwise is just pretending not to.

Personally I think when OBJ is on the field he always looks at him first and because his eyes are over there he misses when other people and routes come open. Maybe it sounds crazy but it seems logical to me.

All the other players seem to be selfless and he sees them as equals without a ME attitude where something bad might happen if they don't get the ball. There is a natural scanning of the field to who is open. That is when they play as a team. Not looking at OBJ, waiting, oh is he going to come open, is he not? Not waiting on OBJ and just playing whatever the defense gives you naturally is the best way to go in my opinion. OBJ may work for a lot of teams but he doesn't work for the Cleveland Browns and Baker Mayfield.

You are making things up. I get why. And I get that many will agree w/you.
haven't been on here in a long while, so just clicking.....


But i think a bunch of you dawgs are going to get your wish and see Baker play without OBJ for an extended time.

I've watched that replay of OBJ a bunch, trying to figure out what the heck happened to him. His knee buckled weird, before he even got caught up in the tackle. It was before contact. I'd be shocked if this isn't an ACL, and he's out for the year.
I never questioned anyone's fandom.
I am not trashing OBJ.
Just observing that OBJ and Baker have a forced chemistry.

OBJ is way nmore talented than Higgins but Baker is way more comfortable with Higgins on the field that OBJ
We'll see how "made up" it is in the upcoming weeks when Baker plays well with no OBJ on the field. I predict that's what will happen because he'll spread the ball around. If not having OBJ is what makes Baker comfortable then you do that. Don't try to fit a square peg into a round hole just for the sake of massaging an ego like many our past coaches or GM's have done.
What if Baker plays well because he's Baker and our other receivers are good? It proves nothing.

Nobody every said we are winners soley because of OBJ.
So why would we suck because he is out? We wouldnt.
Originally Posted By: tastybrownies
The weird part is I can't explain or articulate why really, its just a feeling I have.


So is indigestion

So is the urge fish have that make them bite into a lure that gets them Caught! ...

Have a slice of pizza, Drink a cup of coffee,

People make bad choices on "feelings" all the time, look at the jerry springer show, look at impulse advertising, look at half of people vote for the stupid side in politics,
A Gut Feeling...
May be a reason to go to vegas and get Married in front of Elvis,

But it is NOT a reason to wish for the trading of one of the BEST WR in the history of your franchise!

Half a day after a BENGAL GAME! Where some things went good.

Everyone, after a deep breath, is smarter than this, Continuity, Don't be the typical Browns' overreaction-ing into a mistake,
Team is 5-2, have a nanner sleep on it. thumbsup

Oh my freaking gosh.
And Dude, (Get well soon) is dealing with whatever kind of injury.
Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
Originally Posted By: tastybrownies
The weird part is I can't explain or articulate why really, its just a feeling I have.


So is indigestion


Hahaha! Bravo, sir!
Originally Posted By: jfanent
Baker's problems weren't because OBJ was on the field. You don't trade one of the best receivers in the league because the qb suddenly pulled his head out of his arse after the injury.


Correlation vs Causation...

While Baker pulling his head out of his butt happened after the OBJ injury (long after), one did not cause the other. It's a coincidence.

I will say one thing, though. Stefanski has mentioned that they do look to get OBJ involved early in games. Some would call that forcing the ball to OBJ, and I'm not sure I totally disagree. Now, that could be causing issues (giving an extra look at OBJ on certain plays, leading to difficulty moving off that first read and hitting an open guy) but that issue is Baker's to address, not OBJ's or KS's.

I think the argument that OBJ intimidates Baker is silly. There has literally been no evidence of that at all, and with what we know of Baker's personality makes it even less likely.
I guess we’ll see if OBJ was the problem now. . .
WOW our third WR to go down already banghead

This leaves us with only

Landry
Higgens
Jones
Taylor

on the roster and only Switzer and Bradley on the practice squad. I look for Switzer to be added to the roster as depth at WR and to return punts and kicks so Jones can focus on just playing WR.
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
WOW our third WR to go down already banghead

This leaves us with only

Landry
Higgens
Jones
Taylor

on the roster and only Switzer and Bradley on the practice squad. I look for Switzer to be added to the roster as depth at WR and to return punts and kicks so Jones can focus on just playing WR.


+1
In my NFL fantasy, I hope DPJ seizes the moment, Eminem style, and shows he was the steal of the draft.

Look
If you had
One shot
Or one opportunity
To seize everything you ever wanted
In one moment
Would you capture it
Or just let it slip?


I can hear the music now as we watch his forthcoming 2020 highlight reel...
Hate to see OBJ go down ... BUT, we have a very good situation at WR with Landry, and Higgins and DPJ looked like he can step in and be a legit deep threat also we have Taylor and Switzer which should take over the return duties and as said earlier give DPJ a chance to concentrate on being a WR ...
I honestly didn't expect we'd be testing our depth at WR and RB so early in the season.
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
I honestly didn't expect we'd be testing our depth at WR and RB so early in the season.


One more game and we will be full strength at RB which will make this team even harder to stop with Chubb ...
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
WOW our third WR to go down already banghead

This leaves us with only

Landry
Higgens
Jones
Taylor

on the roster and only Switzer and Bradley on the practice squad. I look for Switzer to be added to the roster as depth at WR and to return punts and kicks so Jones can focus on just playing WR.


Hodge is expected to return this week.
Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
WOW our third WR to go down already banghead

This leaves us with only

Landry
Higgens
Jones
Taylor

on the roster and only Switzer and Bradley on the practice squad. I look for Switzer to be added to the roster as depth at WR and to return punts and kicks so Jones can focus on just playing WR.


Hodge is expected to return this week.


Didn't know that, more good news I like this kid a lot ...
Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
I honestly didn't expect we'd be testing our depth at WR and RB so early in the season.


One more game and we will be full strength at RB which will make this team even harder to stop with Chubb ...


Not likely, at all.
One more game before he can be removed from IR. Then he has to be activated, then he has to get back into shape and prove to the coaches and himself that he's ready to go.

That said, in the context that our Bye is coming up and he could be back after the Bye, then yes.... perhaps just one more game and we'll be back to healthy at the position.
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
I honestly didn't expect we'd be testing our depth at WR and RB so early in the season.


One more game and we will be full strength at RB which will make this team even harder to stop with Chubb ...


Not likely, at all.
One more game before he can be removed from IR. Then he has to be activated, then he has to get back into shape and prove to the coaches and himself that he's ready to go.


Raiders then the Bye then the Texans which will be 6 Weeks they said 4-6 weeks he will play against Houston ... JMHO
J/C

I keep wanting to call Hodge "Reggie Hodge", and I couldn't think of why. Then I remember the punter Reggie Hodges we had back in 2010 that ran that long fake punt against the Saints. Crazy what sticks in your brain.

Cool story, yeah I know.
Any reason to recall that fake punt is good in my book.

Punter didn't make it all the way to the endzone because he got tired. He was smiling/laughing at one point during the run.
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
J/C

I keep wanting to call Hodge "Reggie Hodge", and I couldn't think of why. Then I remember the punter Reggie Hodges we had back in 2010 that ran that long fake punt against the Saints. Crazy what sticks in your brain.

Cool story, yeah I know.


I was at that game. It was a thing of beauty smile
Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
WOW our third WR to go down already banghead

This leaves us with only

Landry
Higgens
Jones
Taylor

on the roster and only Switzer and Bradley on the practice squad. I look for Switzer to be added to the roster as depth at WR and to return punts and kicks so Jones can focus on just playing WR.


Hodge is expected to return this week.


I heard that last night. Returning one week earlier than thought cool
© DawgTalkers.net