Well it seems the consensus from the media is the Ravens will win the North.

Many also feel the Steelers will be much improved under a healthy Ben.

Then most have us third winning 8 or 9 games.

And the Bengals with the number one pick holding on to last place.


The Ravens are returning an almost complete roster to a team that won 14 games last year. Lamar was the MVP. Now they are in their second year of what was a new offense just last season.

The reports on Ben are he is good condition and throwing well. The team won eight games with junk at quarterback last year.

Could the 2020 Browns be the team they were expected to be in 2019?

Much of the answer to that question lies with a new coaching staff. A new staff implementing new schemes is difficult under "normal" circumstances. This year with all the limitations caused by the virus makes it twice as hard.

I wonder with all that the team has had to adjust to with remote learning could there have been unknown positives? Like more one on one learning with each player? Or maybe better technology in the teaching?

Can we beat the Ravens and Steelers?

Honestly, I do not know. I think we have the talent to match them. So that places a lot on how the team is prepared.

Freddie last year before the season began. It looked like a marriage of quarterback to the former OC. Play defense and all would be well.

The result ended as before and after Myles on defense. And an offense that never got into sync.

Now we have added OL improvements. Brought in more weapons at TE. We will have Hunt an entire season. A healthy Odell and Jarvis. On defense Myles returns. Vernon will play if he can stay healthy. Changes at safety and linebacker? Still to be determined if those changes will be positive or negative.

Then there is Baker. Reports are all positive. He is great condition and has been working very hard. New emphasis by Van Pelt on footwork. More tools around him and hopefully better protection.

The ball is in his court. My expectations are Baker will play well.

So, we are underdawgs. I understand why most see it that way.

However, last year "the most" felt it was our year to win the North. So they don't always get it right.

Make take is: The North is up for grabs. I think the Browns, Ravens or Steelers are all capable of winning the North. Injuries will be critical.

The Bengals will be better and will win some games that they will be picked to lose.

The North will come down to a few huge games within the division. It could very easily come down to tie breaker rules.

Virus will be critical potentially. Don't bet against injuries impacts and Lady Luck. We may have a better year. Too many "experts" base decisions on past season. Never bought into that wholeheartedly.

I think there are two major factors stacked against us. You stated one that will be very hard to overcome..."This year with all the limitations caused by the virus makes it twice as hard." I understand the point you were trying to make about virtual learning and that may be quite true in terms of facts and figures, of concepts. But the timing and familiarity that you get from working on the field can not be replaced virtually. The timing between a QB and WR takes reps. The secondary works as a unit. The DL and OL work as a unit. Understanding your responsibility on the field and the plays can be taught without being on the field.

That familiarity of what to expect the player next to you is going to do and when only comes with reps.

Secondly is how the virus will impact the season. This is certainly an unknown which could easily work for you or against you depending which players on which teams feel its impact.

With the virus factor, it's certainly not a season I would be gambling on in terms of predicting a SB or division winners.

I think the Ravens have the most complete roster in the North. Plus you can't overlook the how good their coaches are in putting their players
In place to succeed.
But when expectations are placed on a team sometimes they can't handle the pressure
Look at Browns last year. Media darlings.
They were already SB winners before September.
Freddie was the greatest coach ever
Then week 1 came and the Titans punched the Browns in the mouth. They never recovered despite what the homers would say
Remember last year the Steelers were favorites
To win the North not the Ravens

The Steelers are well coached but everything relies on Bens elbow. He's 38 and very few QBs
Ever get their teams to the playoffs other than Brady at that age.

The Bengals could be anyones guess. Yeah they are picked to finish 4th but with no preseason
There womt be any film on Burrow or the playbook. AJ Green is back and healthy
Taylor has his players buying into the program
Their offense could be legit

The Browns could win the North. But how many 1st
Year coaches in the North ever won the North?
Maybe Tomlin. That's it.
The talent is there to reach the playoffs
But can Stefanski out coach the other guy in a close game ?
Pelt is a 1st yr OC. that can't be overlooked
Woods 1st year DC. all these coaches are learning on the go without a preseason to work
Out the Kinks

Not being able to practice with new staff and systems will hurt a lot this year.

I don't think we are going to see a well oiled machine out there any time soon.

For purposes of today I want to put the virus aside.

Focus on talent and coaching.

The virus and what happens with it are unknowns. I mean damn a team could be wiped out. They may have to field scrubs from way deep in the roster.

What we can look at is roster versus roster. And coaching staff versus coaching staff.

The Ravens and Steelers are and have been well coached teams.

The Browns are unknown.

The Bengals are going into their second season under last years first time head coach.

Talent:

The Ravens have talent. They have proved it.

The Steelers have some talent.

Actually IMO I think the Browns talent wise are better than the Steelers and not far from the Ravens.

I am basing that more on offense than defense. We have the best RB's. We have the best receivers and TE's.

Quarterback is a tough measure. Ben is a HOF quarterback. However, he is 38 and coming off a very serious injury. He is a pocket passer who at this stage is dependent his backs and receivers. So their offense has questions.

The Ravens ran over the league last year. Lamar made great strides as a qb. They can run it. The question now is has the league caught up to their game with more tape? Will Lamar be able to sustain health running as much as he has been running? Their receivers are nothing special. My take is if you stand still. The league will catch up. They were a run first team last year. And their offense was based upon RPO's. Maybe they get better? Or, maybe they get figured out?

What's scary about the Ravens is that their running game can simply demoralize a defense
They don't have to rely on a RPO scheme to run it down your throat.they have Ingram Edwards Hill and now Dobbins. LJ can just turn around and hand it off.
Plus they have Andrews who is the best TE in the North. Those 2 factors the Ravens can own the middle of the field.
And that's where the Browns are weak.

Baltimore’s TE coupled with their running attack is pretty tough to stop. Andrews is a really really good player

Drew Brees says "Ahem."

You are correct but isn't he the exception ?
Plus Brees hasn't took the physical beating Ben
Has over the last 10 years
I think Ben when he has to stay in the pocket
You can beat him
But when he gets out of pocket he's dangerous

Yeah, he's an exception, but QBs are playing later into their careers.

We have more talent than anyone in the division ... we had more than anyone last year and upgraded in the off season ... Freddie was worse than any coach I’ve ever witnessed, it was not the talent last year ... and like i said we upgraded ...

The Rats are overrated. ... IF they make the playoffs, lets see if they can win one ... u get ahead of them and ITS OVER ...

COVID will be what keeps us from the crown IF Kev Can or Bake doesn’t stink again ...

I think Kev Can and Bake was embarrassed last year and clearly took his training very seriously this off season ... he’s got the talent ... IF he can read D’Souza I expect a HUGE year out of him with the improvements we made on the OL and the BEST WEAPONS in the league by far ...

LETS GOOOOOOOO I’m pumped and i very well may not watch a snap this year ...

I agree that Cincy could play spoiler to the rest of us. We can also be spoiler to the Stoolers and Ratbirds and sneak in the back door. The talent is here and we seem even deeper than 20i9 and have adults running the team.

Not necessarily. Resources have been allocated to the interior line and safeties. Since Billings has opted out, I expect AB to find another space eater for us. Mike Daniels, Timmy Jernigan and Xavier Williams are still out there. Marcel Dareus may be too rich for his blood, but he is also available. Maybe "Snacks"Harrison can pull one more wabbit out of his hat if he's used sparingly.
Jordan Elliott's may get thrown in the fire, but he is said to be NFL ready at run stopping by most accounts. I'm OK with that. After all, our D-line did handle them quite well in the first game with everyone healthy.
The upgrades in the safety room should help as will Joe Woods.

For me I can not underestimate the Ravens.

First I have great respect for Harbaugh as a head coach.

Coming out of college I thought Lamar was a long way from being a NFL quarterback if ever.

He has proved me wrong. They won 14 games last year. That is no joke. You can not win 14 by accident.

The big thing was how the coaching staff adapted to the players. Then Lamar proved he is not a guy who can be easily stopped. He is such a threat as a runner that he has to be planned against. Then he is good enough as a passer that you can not sell out on the run.

They are a good team in all areas. However, no team is invincible. Teams will know better on how to play them.

They will there.

Until the Steelers prove otherwise. I respect them. Going 8 and 8 last year is a testament to how well they are coached. They had nothing last year. Getting Ben back with better tools. They will not roll over.

I am with you on our offensive talent. And yes Freddie proved to be inept. However, KS has proved nada.

I like him. He seems to be a leader and a man of intelligence. But he still has to prove what he can do.

Lastly, given the virus and new coaching staff we face the biggest hurdle. We have coaches learning players. Players learning coaches. Both trying to make new schemes fit. That is a tough road with all the limitations from this virus.

I like your enthusiasm but I am more cautious.

One other thing. It sure feels good to talk about football.

My biggest fear right now is the Oline. With all the backups opting out, all it's going to take is for one guy to go down and it could be a game changer for the offense.

No Steelers players opted out. I think they are thinking about going for it all with Ben one more time.

I don’t disagree with much of what u said but there’s a few key things I see differently ... and don’t forget I’m the Stewart of THE ISLE OF OPTIMISM for a reason ... ... with that said there is solid football logic here u may not agree with but it is solid reasoning ....

I have an incredible amount of respect for Harbaugh ... Tomlin does a nice job also ... i don’t think Tomlin is that great at X’s and O’s but his team is always prepared to play and fights to the bitter end ... we agree on Kev ... he appears to be very well organized and a leader ... reminds me a lot of Tomlin in that regard ... hopefully that turns out to be the case and he is also a decent X’s and O’s Guy ...

The two biggest things I disagree with u on are the overall talent level of the rats and Lamar ....

Winning 14 games is hard .. REAL HARD ... no doubt ... but u have to put it into perspective ... lets start with the fact they had 6 games against what IMO ended up being the weakest division in football ... yet we some how managed to beat them in our first match up ... they also had the patsy Fins and Cardinals right out of the gate, Ben going down and Freddie forgetting what brought him to the dance ...

They did have an impressive win against the niners ... Other than them and Pats they played no other decent teams ... they played a few other playoff teams but they weren’t any good ... none of them made it through the divisional round games ...

They also play a style of football no one else in the nfl does ... its hard to defend in the middle of the season and mediocre and bad teams can be overwhelmed ...

I don’t believe the talent on that team equates to a team capable of winning 12 games on a consistent basis much less 14 ...

I’m also not sold on Lamar yet ... not even close ... he is still really inaccurate ... he is not Cam Newton or Josh Allen in stature and his body will not absorb the hits he takes very long ... he’s been lucky so far not to get hurt ... that luck will run out ...

For them last year all the stars aligned properly starting with the two patsies right out of the gate ...

They have also lost one of the best RG’s in football to retirement this off season .. he won’t be easily replaced in that O ...

And if they get behind there $CREWED .... Lamar is not going to lead u from behind ...

I agree its nice to talk football ... lets hope its not for nada and they play and finish ...

Good point about Ben and none of them opting out ... never thought of that ...

It is hard to win 14 reg season games, and we clipped them in one of them.

I agree that winning 14 was schedule related. They started 2-2 and then won 12. I still give them credit.

I don't expect them to do it again though. Lamar is what we have seen. He will never be a standard type quarterback. And we both agree on staying healthy will be a question mark.

But I have to say he is tough to handle as a runner. He makes people look silly.

The Ravens are also a good defensive team. And I don't know about the Browns on defense this year.

When you weigh it all. Each team has some drawbacks or questions. Each team has talent.

That is why I think any of the three could win the North.

They all have a lane to get to the playoffs. But the right mix of things has to happen.

The games they play against each other will be wars.

I have stayed away from Baker talk. But inside I feel he is going to break out big.

If you look at his splits between play action and non play action. He was very good in play action. Kev is going to run play action. The upgrades at tackle will be huge. Playing with two catching TE's and having Hunt all year to go with Chubb will set Baker up.

He was not a high int. guy in college. He was the number one pick for his accuracy. I don't expect him to throw int's at the rate he did last year. I also believe Van Pelt will get Baker back to the basics of throwing on balance.

With a healthy Odell and Jarvis and all of the above. I am in the closet big on Baker having a great year.

I was very optimistic last year... first time in years... and we sucked.... I'm back to my normal pessimistic self... I like the head coaching change and feel like we have talent... but it was hard enough with all the changes.. then you add the pandemic... don't expect us to do much this year but maybe I'll be surprised...

I thought Steve Young was the greatest running QB in the league til Lamar came along ... he’s as exciting as any RB in the league when he takes off just like Young was .... i enjoy watching him run but he does it to much ... he’s taking a lot of hits ...

And as hard as he is to defend if they get behind he’s not near a good enough passer to lead u back .... his running sets up his passing and when the run isn’t a viable option he becomes a liability ...

I agree that all 3 have weaknesses .... every team in the league does ...

We have talent on D too ... they were the 2nd worst coached unit in the nfl last year and injuries hurt ... we need Vernon to stay healthy and Woods to coach to this units strengths ... Greedy and Wilson both got a valuable year of experience and Wilson should have stood in college .... having him this year is like getting a 2nd round at worst LBer wiyh a years experience ....

I’m with u on Bake ... the deck is stacked in his favor and he’s got the biggest chip ever back ....

I'm going to qualify the rest of this post by stating - again - that I've never coached football at any level and only played football in the yard with friends...which was ridiculously simple and not at all complicated...that said:

I keep reading that we will have trouble getting our systems in place...or something like that. I'm thinking defense here. I also know that these guys have been playing organized football for most of their lives...so...

Do we try and "install" our systems/defense as the focal point OR do we say..."Hey, we are going to play a pretty vanilla defense and do that as best we can...if we lose because we weren't sophisticated-enough or exotic-enough or disguised-enough then so be it".

I think the same should be said for the offense.

I'd rather lose because we didn't have time to "get down" the more-sophisticated systems and installs and therefore had to play in a mostly-basic fashion ..than to lose because we keep/kept trying to do things that we weren't yet ready for and don't/didn't establish that we could effectively run even the simplest of schemes...sort of like the entire 2019 season but for a different reason.

I don't think of Steve Young when I think of great running QB's and, I think there must have been a TON of great running Qb's between Steve Young, (won his super bowl in way many years ago, 1994 ish,) and Lamar Jackson who started his career no earlier than 2017.

GC: The Browns, are in position to not win anywhere close to as many games as they lose this coming year,
IF any games are played at all.

Why: Well we know a new coach install is a tough go in a regular year,
it was made a tougher go about 4-5 years ago when the collective bargaining limited practices and programs

Then you have what the Browns did in 2018-19 with the 3 regime changes from Hue-Freddie, just making continuity of ideas (plus the front office shake ups' don't forget Haley in there) making getting on the same page even tougher.

I haven't mentioned Covid19 as limiting anything or causing any level of confusion or difficulty installing anything in those first 3, soo, the Browns are in trouble

First of all, I don't think the league is going to play 16 games this year,
So, 4-12, I don't know how to put that into a shortened season, and
I'm going 4 instead of 0 because I have such faith in the talent and determination of Myles, Baker, a RB here and there, and the WR's---> cept,, I mean, the motivated ones, when they are motivated.

The Browns, have not turned their fortunes back around since the final game of 2006'
The period between 01' and 05' I was much more optimistic about the future, since 06' uhh,

It's like they've been stuck churning at the bottom of a waterfall, different players, same result.

I want to add one more thing.

That is the impact of Case Keenum. He is a veteran quarterback who had his best year under Kev. He knows the system very well.

He is a perfect backup because of his system knowledge and who the guy is. He is a guy who has competed as a starter and is recognized as a good teammate and leader.

He has worked out with Baker over the winter along with some of the receivers. He will be a great presence in the quarterback room. And a guy who Baker can lean on.

Plus if Baker were to miss some time; Case can step right in and play.

Case did not play in Kev’s scheme ... I believe Kev was QB coach then but i know he wasn’t the OC ... it may have been daboll or deflippo ... it may have been one of those two Case played under but I know it wasn’t Kev’s system ..

He’s familiar with Kev but I doubt he’s real familiar with Kev’s system ...

j/c...

Case has been on six teams in six seasons. He's adapted to six different schemes. He was cemented as the backup behind Bradford in 2017 with the Vikings (with Stefanski as his QB coach) until a Week 1 injury to Bradford forced him into the starting role. He won 12 of 15 to finish the season and led them to the NFC Championship, with, by then, a healthy Bradford on the bench.

I wouldn't worry too much about adapting to Stefanski's scheme, regardless of their time together in Minny. Case seems to be pretty flexible in adapting to anything that is thrown his way.

We are still not very deep on defense. We might have the worst linebacking core in all of football. We are counting on rookies and 2nd year guys in the secondary.

Mayfield will need to put up MVP type numbers to get this team to the playoffs in our division.

I knew Kev was his qb coach and he has plenty of experience to pick up any scheme.

He was a good add to this team.

One had to look at last season when looking for a backup. I don't think the coaching staff wanted someone they didn't have some familiarity and confidence in playing that role.

Every team has holes and question marks.

I know linebackers could be a problem.

The secondary has a good mix. Ward starting his third year Greedy starting his second. Karl Joseph is a fifth year guy. Delpit is a rookie. I think they will be ok.

My concern on defense is just playing as a unit. Each guy being accountable and knowing assignments. It is all about Woods getting them ready and them as a team.

That is what has to happen and we just do not know.

Offense should score.

Defense? I will not know till I see them play.

I think he was a great addition ... he’s one of the best back ups in the league ...

I’m not worried about him picking up Kev’s system i was just pointing out the fact he never played in it ... u said he was familiar with Kev’s system and i was just pointing out he wasn’t ...

BGP ... Case has stunk as a starter everywhere else he’s been given the opportunity ... I believe he was benched in Denver for poor play for a raw butt rookie i believe ...

He has more talent around him here so if he is called on he should be much better than he was in Denver ,,,

I’m glad we have him but lets not make into something he’s not ... one decent stretch in 6 years don’t make him anything special ...

Nice one!