Just started to wonder about our FA and draft and UDFA's today. We are, I believe, at 90. Like a snake, we will need to shed some skin, and that means some talent other folks might like.

Thoughts on the practice squad going into this campaign? Any ideas about how many will be kept by positions? Where do we most need the depth? Who is most promising to develop?

This will be vital as we tool up for what looks like extended success IMO. I expect us to continue shopping as the clubs cut down as well. Maybe it's too early to post up, but wanted the thread there.

I like the numbers put up by Romeo McKnight, the UDFA, the 25th guy to worry about at DE from a div. 2 school, what, Illinois State?

7? years ago, I would have said the same thing about I think it was Kareem Hunt, I liked the numbers but it was at "Toledo". (How'd that turn out.)

Romeo McKnight, I'd like to learn more about the guy and see him play a couple of snaps, in preseason maybe, (ehh there may be use for (1) ONE pre-season game; mostly I'm on board with ending the pre-season for good.

edit :
https://charlotte49ers.com/sports/football/roster/romeo-mcknight/7296

Dang that guys in the backfield a lot. 32 games, 25 starts, divison 2, but Dang that guys in the backfield a lot!.

Breaking down the Browns' roster position-by-position after the 2021 NFL Draft
May 04, 2021 at 04:51 PM

Anthony Poisal
Staff Writer


2021 Browns NFL Draft Recap

With the conclusion of the NFL Draft, the Browns' roster has taken one more giant leap toward completion for 2021.

This season's team looks to be even more complete than the one assembled a years ago — Cleveland returned all of its top offensive starters, and the majority of its offseason resources have been spent on revamping the defense with new players across nearly every position.

Now, each position has clear candidates for dependable starters and a deep pool of players capable of rotational and depth roles.

Here's how the roster shakes out following the draft:

QBs
Returning: Baker Mayfield, Case Keenum, Kyle Lauletta
Added in free agency: N/A

Drafted: N/A
Analysis: No changes here, which is a theme that will stay true with nearly every position on the offense. Mayfield is locked in at QB1 after he produced his best NFL season with 3,563 passing yards, 26 touchdowns and eight interceptions. He'll enter 2021 with the same head coach and offensive coordinator for the first time in his career.

RBs
Returning: Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt, D'Ernest Johnson, John Kelly
Added in free agency: Tre Harbison (rookie)
Drafted: Demetric Felton
Analysis: Chubb and Hunt, the top catalysts behind the Browns' sixth-ranked rushing attack last season, are setting out to be even better in 2021. Felton was added to the room as a sixth-round pick and has potential as both a receiver and returner. He could compete with Johnson, who handled kick returning duties in the second half of last season, for a backup role.

FBs
Returning: Andy Janovich, Johnny Stanton
Added in free agency: N/A
Drafted: N/A
Analysis: The fullback position played a valuable role in head coach Kevin Stefanski's offense last year, and it will again in 2021, which is why the two players at the position last year are back for Year 2.

WRs
Returning: Odell Beckham Jr., Jarvis Landry, Rashard Higgins, Donovan Peoples-Jones, JoJo Natson, KhaDarel Hodge (restricted free agent), Ja'Marcus Bradley, Ryan Switzer, Alexander Hollins, Derrick Willies
Added in free agency: N/A
Drafted: Anthony Schwartz

Analysis: The receivers room was already slated to get better in 2021 with the return of Beckham, who missed nine games last year with a season-ending ACL injury. He, as well as Landry, will be the top two targets again for Mayfield in 2021. The addition of Schwartz, the fastest receiver of the draft class, offers another deep-ball weapon to the group.

TEs
Returning: Austin Hooper, David Njoku, Harrison Bryant, Stephen Carlson, Jordan Franks, Kyle Markway
Added in free agency: N/A
Drafted: N/A
Analysis: The Browns' tight ends provided plenty of aid as receivers and blockers last season, and the core four players of the group — Hooper, Njoku, Bryant and Carlson — are back to stabilize the position again.

OTs
Returning: Jack Conklin, Jedrick Wills Jr., Chris Hubbard, Alex Taylor

Added in free agency: Greg Senat
Drafted: James Hudson
Analysis: Conklin and Wills are the core of the Browns' future at tackle. Hubbard's 2020 season ended early with an ACL injury, but he should return as a swing tackle candidate next season. Hudson, a fourth-round pick, is a quality developmental piece who could be relied on if injuries affect the position.

Cs
Returning: JC Tretter, Nick Harris, Javon Patterson
Added in free agency: N/A
Drafted: N/A
Analysis: Harris proved in Week 15 he was capable of playing guard, too, and is a reliable depth piece for the interior line. Tretter will enter his ninth NFL season and hold down the starting role.

OGs
Returning: Joel Bitonio, Wyatt Teller, Drew Forbes, Michael Dunn, Blake Hance, Colby Gossett, Cordel Iwuagwu
Added in free agency: N/A
Drafted: N/A
Analysis: Teller did a masterful job of filling the right guard hole he assumed from Day 1 in 2020 training camp. Forbes and Gossett, who opted out of last season, will be in competition for backup roles with Dunn and Hance, who came up massive for the Browns when injuries hampered the group near the end of last season.

DEs
Returning: Myles Garrett, Porter Gustin, Curtis Weaver, Joe Jackson, Cameron Malveaux
Added in free agency: Jadeveon Clowney, Takkarist McKinley, Romeo McKnight (rookie)
Drafted: N/A
Analysis: Now we're at the defense, which will have plenty of new faces next season. Clowney, a three-time Pro Bowler, and McKinley, a first-round pick in 2017, will be two of them. Both could potentially star alongside Garrett and give Cleveland one of the best defensive lines in the league.

DTs
Returning: Jordan Elliott, Sheldon Day, Andrew Billings
Added in free agency: Malik Jackson, Malik McDowell, Damion Square, Marvin Wilson
Drafted: Tommy Togiai

Analysis: No group will have more competition for a starting role than defensive tackle, which lost its two starters last season in Sheldon Richardson and Larry Ogunjobi. Jackson is the top veteran of the group and is entering his 10th NFL season, while Billings returns after opting out of 2020. Togiai, a fifth-round pick from Ohio State, could find his way into the rotation with a good training camp.

LBs
Returning: Jacob Phillips, Sione Takitaki, Mack Wilson, Malcolm Smith, Elijah Lee, Montrel Meander
Added in free agency: Anthony Walker
Drafted: Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Tony Fields II
Analysis: Plenty of competition will take place here. Walker appears to be in line for considerable snaps after recording 343 tackles in his first four seasons in Indianapolis. Owusu-Koramoah slipped to the Browns in the second round but could be an immediate impact player in 2021. Phillips, Takitaki and Wilson are three young players who will be given a chance to make a jump.

CBs
Returning: Denzel Ward, Greedy Williams, MJ Stewart Jr., Robert Jackson, Brian Allen, A.J. Green

Added in free agency: Troy Hill, Kiondre Thomas, Emmanuel Rugamba
Drafted: Greg Newsome II
Analysis: The Browns addressed the depth issues that arose in this group last season by signing Hill, one of the top defensive backs who hit the free-agent market this offseason, and Newsome, the first-round pick. This group boasts quality starters for both the inside and outside and reliable depth to back them up.

Ss
Returning: Ronnie Harrison Jr., Grant Delpit, Sheldrick Redwine, Jovante Moffatt, Elijah Benton
Added in free agency: John Johnson III
Drafted: Richard LeCounte III
Analysis: Cleveland never got to see the talent of Delpit, the 2020 second-round pick who suffered a season-ending Achilles injury in training camp. Now, Delpit is back, and he'll join Harrison and Johnson, the first player the Browns signed in free agency, to complete a versatile and remarkably young safety room.

Specialists
Returning: K Cody Parkey, P Jamie Gillan, LS Charley Hughlett
Added in free agency: N/A
Draft: N/A
Analysis: Parkey was re-signed after going 11-for-11 on extra points and three-for-three on field goals in the final three games, including postseason. Gillan and Hughlett round out a group that showed the Browns last season they have the most important trait of special teams play: consistency.


https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/bre...-2021-nfl-draft

The fun part is getting to 53 players.

First I like to look at a break down by position group...just my feeling for what is needed before looking at actual names. That helps me in the final cuts, trying to fit names in to allotted openings.

QB 3
RB 4
FB 1
TE 3
WR 6
OT 4
G 4
C 2

27 total O players


DE 4
DT 4
LB 5
CB 6
S 4

23 total D players

LS 1
K 1
P 1

53 total

That is just the first stab. I know we carried 4 TE's and 2 FB last season. I am not sure we can do that this year. I am trying to do this based on Stefanski and what he likes. If it was up to me I'd free up another spot and dump the FB.

We might be able to shave a O lineman depending on who can play what, same with the DB/S/LB grouping. I'd like to add a D lineman

Ought to make for a competitive camp.

4 Tight ends from last year coming back after one year in Alex Van Pelts offense is a plus!

I think 8 on the O-line total, 8 and 3 on the practice squad, who all is eligible for the PS?

I'm not going to fret if Jordan Elliott and Drew Forbes are not Browns this September, Greedy Williams either, I don't see a reason to (?) over past draft capital either, because the future is now.
Terrence Mitchell Started 16 of 16 games last year, and the team moved on from him, these ^3 barely get on the field, and when Wyatt Teller excelled out of nowhere, What is there to miss?

I see us always having 4 TEs under Stefanski, but doubt we keep 2 FBs. I think one of them is cut in lieu of a WR

I do too. That was a hard cut down for me based on what you said. I almost put 4 but opted to keep 1 FB based on Stefanski. Looking back, I don't remember a FB playing all that much last year.

Would it be so hard to put Carlson in at the FB position if a lead blocker is desired?

THanks! Quite an article. Keepers are?

I would think a TE could be used in a pinch for FB if needed. I also once mentioned a 4-tight set with a slot at each side that could be formidable with this backfield. Need to have a single wing kind of attitude to pound with it, but owe really are stacked with some talent on paper. Red zone is a matchup nightmare .

yeah, good point. The FB position is obviously a dying breed. We’ll see how effective our coaches view the position. I’d like to see a break down of Janovich’s usage and a correlation to our run success

I felt we used the FB quite a bit early on and then tapered off sharply as the season went on.

As others have pointed out, the position with the most 'action' in terms of trimming to final roster will be DT. We have some guys coming back, and we seemed to make several boom/bust moves. There's a good chance we don't like what we're seeing out of the guys we picked up and will be watching intently during cutdowns.

I wonder if that was because we felt Baker needed more receiving options once OBJ was injured

My assumption (uneducated as it may be) is that I felt, as the season went on, we were throwing significantly more, and moved away from that "we're gonna run it and there's nothing you can do about it" mentality.

And I feel that our effectiveness with the run was significantly higher early on as well.

I'd have to go find it, but I read somewhere that Chubb's stats without a fullback were better than with one, but Hunt's stats were better with a full back than without one.

Yeah that’s for sure. You wonder if we kinda shifted identities when Chubb was injured and never quite got back (and Teller’s injury as well)

We had a fullback on the field 17% of the time. Janovich also played 52% of the special teams snaps.

I don't see 17% as significant, and as some said, it seemed to be zip later on once we started running Hunt and Chubb together.

As for the special teams, that wouldn't be hard to replace.

Hey, if Stefanski wants a fullback, no beefs from me. I just don't see how we can keep 4TE's and 2 FB's on the roster. I don't see it with even 1 FB.

If you can, I'd love to read about that. That's the stuff that sometimes gets talked about on here that is absolutely fascinating.

We only had two fullbacks last year because Janovich got COVID. Stanton was on the practice squad most of the year.

I don’t remember Chubb and Hunt playing together much last year.

There is no hard and fast rule that says that we will keep 4 TE. If the team feels that a 4th RB, or a 6th WR, is more valuable, then I am sure they will do that instead.

I also look at the defensive numbers, and I am sure that we'll keep more than 4 S. If 3 S is going to be our base, then we need more than 1 backup.

It will be interesting to see how it all washes out.

There is no way around it folks, we will be cutting talent this year and other teams will scoop them up fast IMHO.

Yep. Being one of the "haves" rather than the "have nots" is strange territory.

Cool on the Fullbacks.

I didn't mean for it to sound like we playerd Chubb and Hunt together a lot. Just enough to supplant that 17% the fullbacks played to the point it didn't seem like a FB was even used.

I would bet we use a fullback more often in 2021 than in 2020 because the playbook will be opened up a little more and teams will know our tendencies from 2020 data.

People talk about us using 2 or 3 TE, and a FB frequently, yet we most commonly used 3 WR.

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html

We did use 3 TE on a fair number of snaps, but I bet we could use an OL in those situations.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/05...roundtable.html

Haven't listened to this podcast yet but looks like it would fit in here pretty good.

Browns ran 13 personnel more than any other team in the league.

Interesting that the Browns were the least successful when running out of a two back set, albeit smaller sample sizes.

Also found this:

"Here's the rundown from last year when the Browns announced their official 53-man roster. Of note, the Browns made a couple of moves one day later, thereby adjusting some of these totals.

QBs - 2
RBs - 3
FBs - 1
TEs - 5 (Went to 4 before season opener)
WRs - 6
OL - 9

DL - 8 (Went to 9 before season opener)
LBs - 6
DBs - 10
Specialists - 3"

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/bro...MTAPZKf3Pla36cc

j/c

We didn't have a FB on the roster and Stefanski felt the need to go out and get one. That indicates he holds some value on the position.

To me using a FB more shuts down the playbook.

I agree. That is why I listed one on my position list.

I know people clamored for Chubb and Hunt together, but there was definitely a few reasons that didn’t happen much

Provided Njoku's improvement in blocking last season is legit, I could see it possible we go with 3 TEs with Carlson being the odd man out.

For as much time and effort the Browns spend into getting a competetant group of Cornerbacks onto this roster,
There needs to be a group that can get on the field for 17+ games.

I was one of them

They probably thought fresh legs is more valuable playing one on and one off

GC. Well I listened to Cleveland.com local writers have their go through, and select their 53 roster, with little disagreement and, humbly, I think they are wrong.

The biggest, hardest pill to swallow is they just brush past Jordan Elliott like he's a sure fire top dt on this team. Sadly, today, he's not top 7, 6 or 7 or whatever, if Jordan Elliott makes the roster, and all the current names stay healthy and ready to play, I'm going to be disappointed.
Jordan Elliott is just not the better player in one v one comparisons with any of these players.
Marvin Wilson
Damion Square
Malik Mcdowell
Malik Jackson
Andrew Billings
Tommy Togiai, J. Clowney, Takk McKinley, or Myles Garrett. (Not in production anyway.)

2nd. Porter Gustin, they like Porter Gustin, the Cleveland.com writers crew.

As far as I see it, Who was the team trying to replace when they went and signed Weaver off the Dolphins in late 2019?
So that didn't work out, if the team liked Porter Gustin, why did they go get, Takk McKinley and Clowney,

3rd. They all agree Greedy makes the team...
What can I say.

Not even any discussion. I have to admit they are sportswriters, so maybe they have inside info.

yeah there were times when I thought we should (especially at NYJ with so many WRs out)

General thought, checked out the list of free agents, from 2 days ago, and looking only for cornerbacks.

Gareon Conley from Houston, is 26, a former 1st round pick and plays decent when he plays.

Since I can't bring myself to believe Greedy, or Delpit, or Newsome, or Ward will play and stay healthy for 16 games, (17), and since Terrence Mitchell signed elsewhere,
I'd say a Free Agent Cb addition would be a welcome help.
And I'm totally aware, of TJ Hill, A.J. Green, Brian Allen, and Rugumba, and Redwine, and Robert Jackson, and M.J. Stewart,
But Conley would be a nice welcome addition I'd think, if he passes a physical. I wonder what kind of scheme he plays,/ how he plays zone.
Anohter 2017 1st rounder to pick up, to provide support over the top.
If Greedy Williams can make more plays than him... he'd have to do it on the field.

I agree on safety. Maybe I should have just pegged in defensive backfield players. Maybe it is 5 corners and 5 safeties. I also included JOK as a backer when many of his duties will be much as a safety. He is going to be listed as a backer, but he is going to play a big role in defensive pass coverage.

Again, the numbers are just my opinion as of now. I think they are probably fairly close. I am sure everybody has somewhat different opinions that can bump some of the position groups up or down a player. Maybe we just keep 3 backs and it comes down to either Johnson or Felton.

As camp and preseason starts, a few guys are going to force their way on the team.

I don't think anybody disagrees, but that is pretty much out of the coaches control. Hospital Ward as an example might never sustain any real injury the rest of his career.

You just never know.

I clamored for it, especially in red zone. Spread set and cut it loose.

The Cowboys had a terrible d line last year, especially I'm talking a very slow defensive end I saw who couldn't hold the edge for anything.
Therefore
The day the Browns signed Marvin Wilson, if everyone is healthy Jordan Elliott is not going to make this roster. ( He Shouldn't, if he does it would be a big mistake,) But, they could trade him, even for a cornerback or a 5th or 6th round (2022) pick.
And I don't want to hear how the team wants to save face, because it's the right move, and Elliott served the Browns admirably because even being on the depth chart freed the team up to do other things these past 2.? years.
But the Botttom line the only thing J. Elliott has going for him is he was selected 80 something in the 3rd round. He is not as accomplished as a player as anyone else in the top 9 of the Dl/De, except Togiai, and Togiai shouldn't really feel roster safe either.
Everything changed when the team signed 3 DL in the 18 hours after the draft, because all 3 of them talent wise, and Square with 9 years experience, changed what the Browns have in the D middle.

Ramble On...

I really like D'Ernest Johnson, and I know it's a long shot, and I think the team Likes D'Ernest Johnson, and I like him even in 2022.

So, I was happy because, if they only keep 2 Qb,s and 8...+1 Oline, All 4 Te's,
1 Fullback, and the Two Rb's
Keep D'Ernest Johnson, and
get all the Wr's in,
Landry, Obj, Higgins, Hodge, Schwartz, and Felton,
25, counted again, 25, I'm beaming, 25 keep D' Johnson.

Shoot I forgot about Peoples Jones, That's 26.
---------

You know if they only keep 5 linebackers... because Clowney and Takk McKinley basically have a lb's frame.

7 Corners and 4 safeties.
These are my corners,
Greedy Williams, (making the team, getting healthy, playing a whole bunch, all sunshine and roses feelings) so.
1 Greedy
2 Troy Hill
3. Brian Allen, ( Actually it's one spot for Brian, or Robert Jackson, or A J Green, I personally think B.A. is the one.
4. Greg Newsome II
5 Denzel Ward
6. M.J. Stewart and
7, I've got Gareon Conley penciled in,- he's not on the team, he's a FA he wants too much, whatever, maybe it's just some other additional signing, I think Conley might be a nice dream.

Then JJ, Delpit, Harrison and LeCounte, that's 11 Db's and 11 db's if they can get 11 db's healthy, I think that's about what they wanted in 2020. (Esp. w/ hack-a-shaq, = hack-a-Lamar Ravens.)

So on the D line, the eight I think of, if no one gets injured start with of course.
Jadeveon Clowney 32
Myles Garrett 42
Malik Jackson 34.5 and
Takk McKinley 17.5 = that's 126 career sacks ladies and gentelemen in one front 4.

then McDowell, Marvin Wilson, Togiai, and Square,
one Veteran leader and 3 talented guys that haven't played yet.

Now my Lb's were JOK, Walker, Phillips, Fields, Taki Taki and Malcolm Smith, ( this adjusted to cut Smith)

Now, analytics wise, uh only 5 Lb's, but, considering,
much of last year, BJ Goodson played a ton of time and he was released,
at this point, cutting down to 5, is also cutting Mack Wilson and Malcolm Smith; if LB becomes a need later in the season, the chances that all 3 have been snatched up by other teams, vs. one of the 3, if not 2, are still able to bring back mid year, if there's a need,

are better at the LB position than DE, or Corner.

Would be nice and I like a lot of the guys who aren't on this consideration.
26 on offense, 24 on defense, K,P,LS, and I get to keep D'Ernest Johnson
5.0 ypc, Runs with passion, long term insurance. Creates even 'another' threat. My Guy! One of them.
And he's proven himself at Returner.

Hashtag keep D'Ernest!

How can you post this without a Led Zeppelin video attached to it?

Read his words and immediately started singing the song!

Did you just say you want to keep 2 Running Backs and one of them is D'Ernest Johnson? Nick and Kareem want to know which one of them won't be here.

NO.
...
No we're talking about Kareem and Nick obviously, And keeping D'ernest, And 1 of the Fullbacks,
And keeping Felton the 6th round pick
And keeping Hodge
And adding Schwartz
And keeping Higgins, and Peoples'Jones
And in case you need the obvious, keeping OBJ and Jarvis also.
And keeping all 4 TE's including Carlson who get more playing time than targets show.

And keeping 9 OL,
I'm talking about making it work so the offense doesn't have to lose out on anything. As currently constructed.

Of Course if they went out and Signed Another Star, (or the today's version, ... Metcalf, Seattle, someone like that, then that would change the whole gameplan.

Unfortunately I will take their opinion over yours.

You seem to have some facts on players in your head that just don't translate to real football play???

jmho

If 2 or 3 players end up on injured reserve then the door would be open for
2 or 3 other players to make the final roster.

J/C
I just want to go on record early that if healthy, I expect Marvin Wilson to make the 53 man roster. We won't be able to hide him on the PS. If I had to guess I think he beats out Billings.

I agree. If anything other, we find the the guy has some sort of hangnail and is placed on IR.

I expect Mack Wilson to be cut or traded

I can't imagine a team giving up something for Wilson. Guy is 12 pounds of clueless stuffed in a 10 pound bag.

If my aunt had two balls she would be my uncle

Nowadays, I am not sure that is accurate.

Sad but true...smh

He means DAN6EROUS.

If Kiondre Thomas Cb Kansas State, UDFA makes this 53 man team, (Or any of these young corners). there is one thing I'd hope he could model his game study after.
Daylon McCutcheon, was a force on the Cleveland Browns in about 1999-2004 that time frame.

And he did it by just, defending his man and making awesome tackles. For a small guy, man, McCutheon, "Clutch Cutch" in space he was like Bruce Lee making tackles, moving like a soccer goalie sometimes.

And another guy Kiondre Thomas, (any of these young corners,) could study, also from 1999,

Starting Wr, Darrin Chiaverini, Browns 1999. because he had no business in the NFL from an underdog standpoint, but that son of a gun Made Plays! (As an overmatched slot WR, on a team with no #2, or #1 wr, he'd beat man coverage for 15 yard gains with effort alone, guys draped all over him.)


But Daylon McCutcheon, played 96 games. 96!

And he didn't make the int's, he didn't do a lot of things, I bet there were 96% of his 96 games, where there was talk about, they need to find someone to replace McCutcheon,
But he covered his man! And he Tackled like Bruce Lee in open space.
I wish they had another Daylon McCutcheon on this team right now.
(is what I'm sayin)

edit: For everyone under age 40 Bruce Lee was a 1970s Hollywood Martial artist movie star, famous for being a bad--- in Kung Fu! Inventing a version of karate, and an ability to move and fight in a unique way.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/mar...egin-nfl-career

Marvin Wilson Calls Browns perfect situation to begin NFL career.

Defensive line.

Marvin Wilson could be a factor: SI article.

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/marvin-wilson-could-be-factor

The conclusion is crystal.

This is the best roster top to bottom that the Browns have had going way, way back.

In addition this will be a super difficult roster to even make the 53.

There is serious competition at every position group.


This is going to be the first 17 game season ever. Roster depth will be important. In fact all the gushing about the Bucs, Chiefs, Bills, Rams, Ravens, 49ers and the Browns could all come down to roster depth.

Every team has injuries. Next up is reality.

Analyists this time of year all flatter team's star players. First string at every position is sugar coated.
The reality is second and third string players are just as important because they play. And many are forced into action right away.

I thought that with a 17 game schedule that roster expansion may happen. Or, "practice squads" could change.

Not many teams can handle the loss of numerous key players to injury.

We have good depth. I just hope we can remain some what healthy.

This is one of those times when I feel its right to expand the game day roster spots.

If not expand the roster then have some kind of flexibility with players you carry on practice squads.

Like allow more players to practice during the week.

Teams have to find a way to get guys ready if needed.

Maybe open it up as a compromise? Suppose after week 10, if all byes are in, a team could add for one week five to roster and five to PS. Know your injuries and needs and recruit help for playoffs. Not sure the current roster numbers can sustain a run of 17 games and playoffs.
I think this could help injured players make better choices as well. If these are not the numbers, I think the need will be evident, it wi;; result in better games for fans, and it can be jiggled some.

The NFL needs to get this right, and added players can carry through to FA signing the next year.

I think everybody in here is of the opinion that Wilson was an outstanding FA signing. I think he can become a very good starting quality player. Maybe sooner than later.

Possibly.

The reality is we are at a point where it is going to be tough to cut players. Of course we want expanded rosters just like good teams wanted expanded rosters for the last 10 years. I think teams like the Pats didn't want to cut some players.

The weaker teams don't want expanded rosters. They want to pick up some of our cuts, just like we wanted for the last 20 years.

It's really no different than wealth of any kind. When you have it, you want to keep as much as you can. When you don't, you are all for getting some from others.

Most if not all of the preseason mock drafts had him going in the 1st round. Anybody know what happened to change that? Was his 2020 season that bad? Hiw was it bad?

I'd like to see all roster-ed players be eligible on gameday rather than choosing inactives every week...see practice squad comment below.

The IR rules were better last year, but should be more like baseball's disabled list.

The practice squad rules were also better last year but need two things IMO. Teams should be allowed to protect (and better protect) a number of players from being poached by other teams...let's say 4-5. Also, there should be a number of roster spots that can be "churned" each week between guys already on the 53 and PS guys.

The situation where injured guys (who can't play for a couple games) take up a limited roster spot is stupid. If you don't want to IR the guy, churn him to the PS for the next game or until he's healthy. The PS guy gets to play and the roster isn't hindered by shear #s PLUS a guy(s) who is out for awhile.

He seemed very disinterested this year, I watched tape of the one on ones at the Senior Bowl and his play for the most part was very uninspiring. Plus he tested very poorly at his Pro Day.

That's disappointing.
Thanks for the info

He had a meniscus injury early that he played on until he opted-out. Which is not the most severe of knee injuries. its possible that at his size it may have bothered him more than it would a smaller human.

Another factor that might have lowered his production was that during 2020 he was moved frequently around the Dline. He took a lot of reps at both 3-tech and 5-tech. He played these positions decently but he had less splash plays.

Prior to 2020 the dude had two seasons of highly productive play. I dont think the talent that just suddenly evaporated. I'm confident the team evaluated him thoroughly. Thats why the offered him the equivalent of a 6 round contract.

This is a pretty big deal and long overdue:

In other words, come back when you are able to play... Not hard to grasp

At the end of the day I don't see the Browns carrying a FB. They can do what they did last season and insert a TE into this position. I watched enough last year when we did insert a FB and it just wasn't effective and I truly view it as giving up a threat when we do.

Beyond that I truly have no idea who these guys will keep. A lot of it depends on how these guys who were rookie's last year have progressed this year Elliot being on of them. Will they keep him they liked him and he gained some valuable experience last year but needs to elevate his game. Everything the Browns have done to date has revolved around diversity, if you watch closely they value guys who can do more then one thing that is why a true FB who isn't much good at anything but blocking IMO is easily replaced and frees up valuable roster spots.

I would be more inclined to watch in the groups that are overloaded with talent to see if the Browns don't try to trade off a few guys in the next few weeks I am certain conversations are taking place.

I feel very comfortable that Berry and Ski will keep guys they believe will help the team this year and into the future. Who that is without knowing the leaps these guys have taken from year one to two is impossible some are obvious because we see these guys being talked about in the press we just haven't a clue and the Browns I am sure do all they can to keep as much info as possible under wraps. I trust Berry and Ski and that is what's important to me at this juncture.

I agree. If the person playing "fullback" can't offer anything to the O other than being a lead blocker it is a wasted roster spot.

Like you said, but a TE back there. Put in a reserve guard or a DT. All fullbacks do is lead defenders to the ball, so you might as well put in a large human to lead the way on that 4th and 1.

Heck, Hunt is a good lead blocker. I'd bet that Chubb could be as well. I'd rather have Chubb and Hunt lined up in the backfield over one of them plus Janovick, or whoever the heck we have wasting space.

This is nothing against the guys playing the position. It's about the position being outdated. Other than maybe 5 quick handoffs up the middle a season, they block.

On any play you have 5 guys who can touch the ball and gain yards not counting the QB. I don't want to give up one of those slots to a guy who's only real value to the team is blocking. It limits the viable possibilities.

I'd have to go back and find them, but I think I remember someone posting stats about Chubb and Hunt running with a fullback. Chubb's numbers were I believe the same either way, but Hunt was better with a fullback.

Asking a TE to play fullback is like asking a SS to cover in the slot.
If they keep 8 OL, there is no reason not to keep one fullback.

I have explained why not to keep a fullback. It's a position, not a player. Keep 9 Olinemen. Keep an extra actual running back. Keep another wide receiver.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/07/31/cleveland-browns-andy-janovich/

within this article:

"Janovich was used for 171 offensive snaps last season, as well as another 222 on special teams. Because he was used primarily as a blocker, he had very few touches — four, to be exact. He had two receptions in five targets, and also had two rushing attempts and a grand total of 17 yards. But that really doesn’t matter. He was used for his blocking, and he filled his role very well."

I'm not saying you are wrong, but it's clearly not as cut and dry as you make it sound..

I wonder what Chubb and Hunt would say on the subject.

Anyway, I don't think I wanna see Hunt as a lead blocker. He's too valuable

IIRC, Janovich started out the year with heavy use, but that kind of trailed off over the course of the year.

My point being... I usually don't agree with Ballpeen's view of FBs, and especially when we have a good one on the roster already. But with the stupid amount of talent we have and the challenge we have to get them all touches, I'd prefer not to see a Higgins or a Bryant get taken off the field for a FB. First step to getting touches is being on the field.

A glance at the roster, the Browns have 9 OL on their team, not one of the main 5 starters from 2020 or named Kendall Lamm, (left for the Titans), Chris Hubbard, or Nick Harris, the main fill ins from 2020.

3 tackles, 1 center, 5 guards. If the Browns send them all to waivers, and then protect on the PS, the likely hood that all 9 would get poached to other teams rosters is very little.
The Browns have 2 fullbacks, (I didn't even look), from 2020, one who was active during the season.
If the Browns send them both to waivers and then protect on the PS, the likely hood that both would get picked up by any 2 of the 32 teams and then they could not help your team anytime in the future.
is slightly more.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JanoAn00/fantasy/2020

It's not the downward trend I was expecting, but his heavier usage was definitely in the first half of the season. His usage seems more tied to game's outcomes. Heavy FB usage seems to correlate to wins (especially lopsided ones).

6 wide receivers:
4 tailbacks:
4 tight ends
2 quarterbacks
8 offensive linemen

Plus one spot. 25.

Spot is OL-9, or FB-1, or remove a tailback, tailbacks only 3. etc.

our run game is such a big part of our team character. I think we will continue to carry a FB especially if he contributes to ST. just guessing of course but think we will jmho

Let's see, a quick check on Bakers and Keenums snap counts the number is 1062 snaps. Snaps are plays. I am sure a few other players may have taken a snap or 3, but the number doesn't really matter.


So Janovich played 1.63% of the plays. About 11 snaps a game.

So, as for special teams, I don't recall Jano being mentioned as a pro bowl type special teams player. I don't even recall much of his special teams play, so in my book it is safe to assume someone else could easily fill his special teams role.

As for Hunt being a lead blocker, I wasn't advocating that. I said he would do fine if asked. Not long ago I remember people pimping his block to get Baker around the corner for a critical 1st down. I do advocate playing a TE or back-up guard in that role...Speed isn't all that critical as a lead block seeing that most of the blocks are just beyond the LOS.

As you said, he was used as a blocker, so guards know how to block. TE's know how to block. Jano had 2 recptions. I don't think that would be hard to replace, do you? Of course not. Heck, I'd bet that Bitonio could catch 2 of 5 chances.

If the guy was totaling even a few hundred yards on the ground and maybe 20 receptions, ok, maybe that is worth a spot even if I wouldn't keep one at that level.

I just don't understand what some people see in the position that makes you think it is worth a roster spot. Everything Jano does could be done by someone else, freeing up a roster position.

Yes, I know Stefanski likes the position so it probably stays. Nobody is perfect.

This lands somewhere between 'means nothing' and 'a big deal', but Janovich did have a (as in 1) big grab on attempted onside kick that iced a game.

Cool, he secured a bouncing ball.

Lol... just come here from PP? Being deliberately obtuse rarely flies there, much less here.

Yes, he secured a bouncing ball while getting hammered by the opposing ST players to prevent them from getting a potentially game-winning extra drive on our then-porous defense.

So while he's not an all-pro, he's still made plays. Plus KS seems to appreciate what he brings.

Not that they ever would, but it they ever did,
Do NOT let the steelers waive Quincy Roche and not put a claim in for him, his pass rush ceiling, and vs the run too.

I am not being obtuse. He made a play. I am proud of him. Are we going to keep him for being a fullback or special teams ace?

I don't think it is because of outstanding ST play.

I have given the case for why his fullback play shouldn't be enough to warrant a roster spot. If you can make a case for his special teams play, I am all ears. I value great special teamers and can see reserving a roster spot for those guys much like we kept Cribbs for his special teams play..and no, he doesn't have to have the same impact that Cribbs had, at least in the return part.

Your decimal point is off in your math. Janovich played 16% of the total snaps on offense, not 1.6%.

Janovich was also in for 222 ST plays or 52%.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JanoAn00.htm

And...

https://www.brownsnation.com/pff-ranks-browns-offensive-line-1-in-2020-final-rankings/

It's actually 16%, not 1+%. Still not a huge participation, but if you add in special teams, you can start to build a case for his inclusion on the final roster.

Stefanski likes to use a FB.. I don't think deleting the position is being considered.

I don't know about that. I mean I see your point and you've been on that bandwagon for some time now. Yet for some reason Stefanski saw a reason and a need to keep a FB on the roster last year and has brought in a second one to compete with him during training camp this season. I'm going to have to trust him on his reasoning for that.

Now the reason could be that Hunt looks better with a FB and the future of Chubb staying here was in question at the time. With the extension of Chubb we may see a roster without a FB on it this year. Who knows?

But the fact that Stefanski not only kept a FB on the roster here last year but also kept one on the roster in Minnesota tells me he feels stronger about having a FB than you do.

Per posts above, he apparently does have a good passblocking rating when in at fullback, and he has made plays when called upon in STs. KS has gone on record as liking the FB role (and pulled 'his guy', Janovich, from MN).

My bad on the 1.6%...I still think it boils down to asset allocation. I have also said the guy will probably be here since Stefanski for some reason likes fullbacks.

I just don't see the point of keeping a guy who as a starter plays 16% of the plays, gains 17 yards rushing on the season and catches a couple of passes.

I see it as asset allocation. By the time camp ends somebody is going to be cut who we all wonder what in the world were we thinking, and chalk it up as a numbers deal.

You need look no further than that fullback sitting down on the end of the bench.

JMO

j/c

What do our playaction numbers look like with a FB vs without a FB? Opposing teams are probably more likely to sell out to stop the run with a FB on the field, opening up chances for chunk plays on playaction. Having the FB on the field also can present difficult choices in defensive personnel packages.

I could see the team going either way at FB. It is nice to be able to run even when the opponent knows you are going to run. You don't necessarily need a FB to do that, but we do have a pretty good one.

Disagree pretty strongly here. 16% of offensive plays and 52% of teams plays is not insignificant. Expecially if you are judging by what a particular player/position is going to contribute to team success this year.

Which do you predict will have a greater impact on our 2021 season?
Janovich or our 4th guard?
Janovich or our 4th TE?

And that's just offense...bottom of the roster LBs, CBs, and even DEs are going to be less impactful.

In addition, you can safely stash those sorts of players on the practice squad much more easily than a starting calibre FB.

https://player.fm/series/giants-huddle-n...2wWMc8Jv5eGkFrq

I'm not sure if that link, is the audio I listened to.
If it is. (Brian Baldinger joins the giants huddle) aug. 11 2021.

So I was listening to a giants show, because of the fight and the Browns scrimmage them in one week, and, Bam
at the 5:50 Six minute mark until 8 minutes they ask this guy about a fullback.

He really makes a case for what benefits there are to having a fullback. points, for recap.
1. Analytics say Fb is a dinosaur but he doesn't agree.
"If you can't convert 3rd and 1, 4th and 1, 4th and goal, those plays; you lose games"
" Fullback helps you in those situations he is going to be an every down special teamer"
" Short yardage, goal to go, when you run the 4:00 minute offense, fullback helps."

" Good ones, (fb's) in this league, clean up things, when things go wrong up front" (the OL), they find the other color and plug.
He's a fan, sees the value, says " A fullback adds toughness to your offense."

Some team and coach, has "always had a fullback, and it's important to be multiple in what you do and how you attack, a way to gameplan week in and week out."
He mentions some Linebackers don't deal well when faced with a fullback, and fullbacks are a good blitz picker upper.

later he says, all the guys in Cleveland are good blitz picker uppers.

( I especially think the point about being able to do different looks with the offenseive gameplan is a strong argument for keeping a fullback.)

Who are you worried about losing on the offense because the fullback sticks, because if I were worried about losing a playmaker I could see moreso your point.
I figure, the player out would be OL-9 and OL-9-10-and 11, (mostly similar), they'll try to stash on PS with a likelihood at least 2 clear waivers.
For the Wrs. Take the top 4 names, and pick 3.
Put the 4th name into a 6 way battle for WR 3-6 and pick 3.
JoJo Natson, Khaderal Hodge, Anthony Schwartz, Demetric Felton, D'Ernest Johnson, pick 4, they only have to cut one. and the fullback can stay,
or Go to 3 Tight ends, instead of 4 and they can all stay, including the fullback.
Eventually, if they have, DPJ, and Higgins, and Jojo, and Schwartz, and Jamarcus Bradley, and Hollins, and Ryan Switzer, you'll have 7 guys doing the same things, playing Wr 3 and Wr 4. They can keep 4 of them, (plus Landry and OBJ), that's pretty good.
and if, Demetric Felton or D'Ernest Johnson aren't good enough to make this roster they won't bottom line, but they can stay too, if they keep 6 Wrs. (and still have the Fb)

Then Stephen Carlson TE 4, didn't make many plays, but all 4 TE's played in all 16 games or 15, (from memory of the reference page) last year, and that makes me think there is a use for keeping 4 TEs.

I don't know who to be afraid of losing by numbers. (That is 25 on offense), 25 on Offense, 25 on Defense, 3 special teams pretty standard. ACH. anything could happen.

IIRC, peen's issue with FB (peen, feel free to correct me wherever I'm wrong) is not so much with the FB position, but moreso with the idea that you have to have a designated body filling that role. If it were his decision, he wouldn't have Janovich on the roster, but when the play calls for a FB in the formation, he'd grab a guard or TE off the bench and throw him in there.

The Browns could do the unthinkable, trade player x for a higher draft pick, or value today than the future expected compensatory pick, or option 3 imagine player x remains a Brown. (meltdown city).
Keep the team together don't mortgage 2021.

I hear what you and Peen are saying and like I said, I can't find major fault with it.

It wouldn't be Higgins that gets taken off the field. it would be swartz or Hodge5

I don't think it would be Schwartz or Hodge, unless people are injured and out.

If Jano is on the field, it would be with another back. I don't see any situation where Chubb and Hunt or on the bench and the FB is in the game.

In a run situation, we are going to have at least 1 TE on the field, so that leaves 2 receivers. Higgins or DPJ are the guys on the bench.

I suppose we might run a trick'em play and have Jano in then try to pass him the ball. He did catch 2 footballs last season., so maybe a TE wouldn't be in the game, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I know you aren't disagreeing, so don't think I am getting on you or something like that.

Hollins, Bradley, Higgins, DPJ..l I like hearing about the WR depth. Remember how awful that position had been forever

Greg Little and Mohammed Massaquoi remember.

I've never been a fan of the "LOOK AT ME" moments that players do in the modern game, poses, dances, etc. One of the reasons I love Nick Chubb, he doesn't do that. Like Jim Brown says, act like you've been there before.

Greg Little was the worst! He would miss or drop 3-4 catchable passes in a row, then when he finally caught one, he would get up and strike his 'Usain Bolt' pose. "LOOK AT ME!"

Yep, Chubb is the consummate professional in that respect. I like OBJ but did not like his watch or shoes distractions nor do I care much for his one-handed grabs all the time. I just want a star like OBJ to show up every week and perform at an extremely high level. Sure, have fun playing, but cut the silliness and strive to be the guy that has been there before. Then maybe after you give us a big consistent dose of that OBJ Super Star, a little diva crap would be more tolerable.

What's a Alexander Hollins???????????

After watching this team play last night, I haven't a clue how to pair down the roster the backups played outstanding ball and there are some keepers in that crew for sure.

My impression of the bottom of this roster is WOW.

No doubt we have some tough decisions looming.

This year, when people scream, "Why did we cut him!!", they will probably have a legit argument.

The tax you pay when you have a good team.

Anyone have info on this TE that played in the fourth Quarter . Davis ? Caught my eye .

A trap for the grammar police?

quote " Any info on TE Davis 4th qtr."
Connor Davis TE was a big bodied TE the Browns signed off the Jets earlier this summer, 6'8 iirc.

The Browns waived another TE before they signed him, Jordan Franks or ? (Kyle Markaway), then, I thought I saw the waived Te from earlier in the summer, playing in place of #4 TE Stephen Carlson after Carlson got hurt while making a catch out of the backfield delayed like a rb dump off,
he, Carlson was on the sideline angry with pain, seated, and they later mentioned his knee on the broadcast.
Oh now I remember. Connor Davis, TE had 2 things, he was tall and he had a super number in the long jump.

When I read this ^ all I can think is, Who was or was there a player on the big red machine,(with an M in their name); baseball 1970's- who in the outfield would make one handed grabs when all the coaches told us to get under the ball and use 2 hands on the baseball glove. (Man I've gone way off the rails.) time to look it up. (they were excellent in that they didn't have errors in fielding for long periods of time.)

Quoted for ironic hilariousness.

Predicting the first 5 cuts for the Browns after the preseason opener

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/lists/pr...eseason-opener/

The Cleveland Browns played well in their preseason opener with very few glaring concerns presenting themselves. The team turning the corner in 2020 and now being expected to win is a big change. Last night, the Browns second and third teams outplayed the Jacksonville Jaguars first and second teams.

That role reversal may take some time to get used to.

Unfortunately for five current Browns players, their hopes of making the team’s initial 53-man roster will come to an end soon. While the first five cuts are not due until Tuesday, it is possible Cleveland will make their decisions sooner rather than later.

Of note, the first two cuts (each consisting of five players for ten total) may not be only due to skill level. Instead, injuries around the team could lead the Browns to keep a less talented player at a position that they need depth to make it through camp and the next two preseason games with.

Cleveland will also try to keep players around until the final cut down that they hope to get on their practice squad.

Here are some names that could be a part of the first five cuts:

RB Corey Taylor
Just added to the roster due to a roster spot opening up, Corey Taylor could be one of the first players cut. The Browns have a quality depth at the position with all of them mostly healthy.

The team may have some interest in seeing more of Taylor before letting him go which could put John Kelly’s roster spot in danger.

TE Connor Davis
A huge, 6’8″ player, Connor Davis is old for a new player at the age of 26 years old. He did have one catch for six yards in the opener but there isn’t a lot of reasons for him to stick around much longer at this point.

WR Ryan Switzer
This might be a tough one to see given everything Ryan Switzer’s family has been through this offseason and with his touchdown Saturday night. It is possible that Cleveland respects Switzer enough as a veteran to give him a chance to catch on somewhere else instead of sticking around on a team where he likely won’t make the team.

For his career, Switzer has 321 yards receiving while also showing some qualities as a returner. Another team could be interested in bringing him in for the final few weeks of training camp to see if he can help out in both areas.

OL Cordel Iwuagwu
Offensive and defensive linemen often are the last to go as teams start to trim their rosters but the Browns injuries in the secondary could change that for the team.

Cleveland is very, very deep on the offensive line and could keep 9 or 10 on their final roster, if everyone is healthy. Players like Cordel Iwuagwu are there for help in camp but are not long for the team.

CB Robert Jackson
Forced to play in 2020, Robert Jackson showed he wasn’t ready to contribute at the NFL level. Already 27, Cleveland may not see a chance for improvement out of Jackson and decide to let him go earlier instead of later during this process.

Kiondre Thomas could also be on the early chopping block but the team may want to see a little more from the rookie at this point.


Others Considered
With a 90 man roster, there are a lot of players that could be considered for this early but. A few names that could be at risk sooner than expected but unlikely now:

Malik McDowell – The exciting comeback story got stonewalled by an injury and couldn’t play in the first week of preseason. Has he shown enough to keep his comeback going? Most likely but something to keep an eye on.
Damion Square – Another interior defensive line player, Square was brought in via free agency but is one of the oldest players on the roster at this point. If he won’t make the final roster, the Browns could respect him enough to let him go early.
Alexander Hollins – The Browns just have a lot of talented receivers at this point and Davion Davis played well after just arriving in Cleveland.
Johnny Stanton – The fullback was given 6 carries on Saturday night and showed some quality ability with the ball in his hands. Unless Andy Janovich gets injured, Stanton is not making the roster. Perhaps another team liked what they saw last night?
Colby Gossett, Javon Patterson – Other names on the great Cleveland offensive line.
Sheldrick Redwine – Due to injuries, unlikely to be cut this time but will certainly be a name to watch.
Takk McKinley – Only noted here because there is very little known about his situation. If the team knows something signficant that is not known publicly, they may move on.
It is important to note that other teams could have interest in any number of the Cleveland players and a trade of a player, noted above or not noted, could open up a roster spot.

well, we just lost Carlson for the season, so that's one roster spot there... we only need to make four cuts.

That should be pretty easy, actually.

A rough time of the year for NFL players and coaches.

In past years we have seen some marginal players cut that caused some fans to act as though they were mistakes. We are now at the point we will have to cut some players who are actually good players because the talent level has grown so much.

Our situation has reversed itself. We used to be waiting for other teams to make these cuts hoping we could upgrade our roster. Now other teams are waiting to see who we cut in hopes to upgrade their rosters. What a nice predicament to be in.

There's potential to work some trades here, too. A needy team may be willing to part with a 6th or 7th to be sure they get a guy, especially if they're in the middle of the pack on the waiver list.

Was it this year that they juggled the max roster limits over the course of training camp? They pushed the majority of cutdowns to the end.

I'm so used to having a lot of marginal talent on the roster I hadn't actually considered that option but you're right.

I am sure Berry is working the phones, if we come away with a few late round picks I would be pleased. Perhaps Berry could even land another DPJ.

Maybe after watching Billings we should be looking to make some trades for the DL. Upgrades could certainly be used in that department. If we could get some late round picks in exchange for areas we have depth in exchange for making trades in a department we have a weakness that would certainly be a benefit.

Right now the 4th tight end spot is wide open, but the Browns do want to fill it.

Tebow may soon be available...

Not here, but he is a big dude.

I think the potential for a 1st rounder and a cornerback from the 49ers for Hollywoo--
Now, I'm going to duck and run for cover.
Because I don't even like the idea myself, but think it was a thought at least yesterday.

A 6th or 7th round pick isn't worth the udfa's they paid extra for the last two drafts.

a 6th or a 7th is better than getting nothing when you release a guy at cutdowns.

We could probably get a 4th fairly easily for Higgins, but he's worth more to us than that, and he probably isn't worth more than a 4th to another team.

Is Tebow just a coach in the huddle.

No, he is Urban's next door neighbor. Literally.
That's how he got signed.

Excellent. I'm just sorry this didn't happen till my early 60's

Whoa, I literally moreso think it's how I thought, learning that.

Before an NFL college draft, people don't just have one mock draft, they change things up.
Change things up so that the Browns decide to keep maximum offensive linemen instead of minimum, 10 or 11 instead of 8.

And In this one, as long as we're being crazy include a must have that, say a Jamarcus Bradley makes the final roster.
What would it mean.
Probably stashing some players on IR, only keeping 3 tight ends, and waiving some known names.

addition: Look I'm not saying that 2 years from now, Anthony Schwartz' speed won't come in handy, (maybe I've been saying it), but in the next 60 days, the next 100 days, ( the guy has barely practiced) wouldn't it be great if they could redshirt him to save the roster spot.

I just remembered. When I was thinking about this in the middle of the in night.
If it comes down to Drew Forbes or D'Ernest Johnson, then it comes down to Forbes doesn't return kicks. But!
Can they trust other Kick returners?
DPJ, ... too important to risk injury?
Schwartz.. can't catch a cold, reliably?
Felton? Is Felton as the only return option putting too much stock, in?

Well Schwartz and Felton are both rookies.

Can Schwartz' inability to catch, force them to keep a D'Ernest type over an OL type, Johnson was a better returner than DPJ in limited action in 2020 imo.
Would the Browns lose a good OL on a Schwartz' inability to catch even in a return game forcing them to keep another returner, on neeeed. So much seems to happen for need it's remarkable.

Schwartz can't catch...?


???

It’s his ‘thing’. Just let him run with it and move on.
He’s been educated that his nonsense is just that. He refuses to budge his stance.
Next.

Well, this is straight from the mouth of the man that said Chubb couldn't run his way out of a wet paper bag!

Schwartz can catch? Where is it?

I think we can write that guy off. He was a bit of head case in Atlanta.

Maybe there is something, so we'll see, but I am not hopeful at this point.

I'd agree, unfortunately.
I think the chances of him taking a snap for us are pretty close to zero.
I'd love to see him grow a set and prove me wrong, but I think he's just not dealing well with Clowney being here and bumping him to 3rd DE; stealing any spotlight there may have been for him.

I don't know Purple, that seems pretty harsh. I think he has an issue (I have no proof so I won't put it out there) that is contributing to his absence that he hopefully can beat.

I think our FO is - in their planning minds - assuming that he won't be a part of the team for this season. JMO

24 days to get the starters ready to overcome adversity. Time to take the Kid gloves off yet?

I still think we need upgrades on dline and LB, and a replacement for delpit, I don't think he's going to make it. The whole Takk thing is bizzare. I do think our secondary as a whole is alot better, I think we are going to miss Richardson Immensely. I wouldn't rule out a trade for dline tbh, depends if billings still looks like he spent the offseason eating himself to death or if he's just taking it easy till it matters. I wouldn't mind bringing in Boston or Swearinger for safety depth ala Karl Joseph. Depth in the secondary really bit us last year when compounded with our really bad LB core. We really didn't address the LB core. I know people are high on Walker, but if anyone has actually watched him play, he's not that big of an upgrade from an ability standpoint. Hopefully hes that glue guy and thats all we need with everyone else taking a step forward.

I find a little disturbing, whenever I read or hear the repeated comments (around) similar to.

If Lauletta plays well the Browns should just make him #2 and move on from Case Keenum to save hundred dollar bills.

Keenum won 11 games once in the NFL iirc: either way he's experienced and solid and 11 wins is not just something to brush off.

I hope that a continued focus on pay structure of contracts doesn't derail enjoyment of the 2021 season worrying about the future because they're set to play really well and next offseason isn't next offseason until it arrives.

Looking at the roster from a "Win Now" view and what the Browns may keep at each position group
O-Line=8
TE-3/4
WR-5
RB-4
FB-1
QB-2
Total=23 or 24

DT-4
DE-5
LB-6/7
CB-5
S-5
Total=25 or 26

ST-3
Overall Total=53

O-line Part 1
AB may not have much choice but to either pay Teller now or trade him. It's almost impossible to keep both Dunn or Forbes and Hudson while still keeping Hubbard who's valuable as a backup unless they move on from Harris.

Part 2
1. J. Conklin
2. W. Teller
3. JC Tretter
4. J. Bitonio
5. J. Wills
6. C. Hubbard (Swing OT)
7. Harris (Back Up Center)
8. Dunn ( Back Up Guard)
Try to get Hudson and Senat on the the PS.

TE-Group
With the new offense I believe the Browns are better off going with 3 tight ends this year after losing Carlson.
1. A. Hooper
2. D. Njoku
3. H. Bryant
That also gives them and extra spot on the roster.

WR-Group Use the extra spot from the TE group to keep 6 receivers
1. J. Landry
2. OBJ
3. DPJ
4. R. Higgins
5. K, Hodge
6. A. Schwartz
Try like crazy to get D. Davis on the PS

RB-Group AB could pick up an extra spot for the roster with only 3 running backs. But they need play makers and all 4 add value
1. N. Chubb
2. K. Hunt
3. D. Johnson
4. D. Felton

To finish out 2 QB's and 1 FB
1. B. Mayfield
2. C. Keenum
A. Janovich is a solid player but AB could look at finding more of a RB/TE/FB to play the position. If he keeps Janovich it would be very understandable given his production.

DT-Group Part 1
4 is the magic number but 5 would be ideal.
Billings, Togiai and McDowell all need to show out on Sunday. If it was my call right now without anymore data
1. M. Jackson
2. S. Day
3. J. Elliott
4. T. Togiai

DT-Group Part 2
I would look to upgrade Togiai and try and get him to the PS. He's shown potential but just needs time to develop. In a win now mode that's done on the PS.
If McDowell can show out he would make the 4th spot.

DE- Group
5 is the number from week 14 2020
I'm not sure how much longer AB can wait on Tak. but the group overall is strong IMO
1. M. Garrett
2. J. Clowney
3. P. Gustin
4. C. Weaver
5. C. Malveaux
If Tak can make it back soon he would get the 5th spot.

LB-Group Part 1
I believe 6 will be the number
1. JOK (ST)
2. A. Walker
3. S. Takitaki (ST)
4. E. Lee (ST)
When it comes to 5 & 6 I could see AB to try an improve them both. It's possible Phillips makes the 53 then goes to IR

LB-Group Part 2
Wilson and Meander could make the first roster as well but then be upgraded as other teams make cuts.
KJ Wright
BJ Goodson

The Bills released UDFA Mike Bell I would like to see AB have him in for a work out.

CB-Group Part 1
5 is the safe number however week 3 2020 the Browns did have 6 on the roster.
1. D. Ward
2. T. Hill
3. G. Newsome
4. G. Williams
are all a lock IMO.

CB-Group Part 2
Without looking outside the current roster AJ Green should get the 5th spot. Also Allen may be in the mix should it be 6
It's possible AB look to trade Williams if he doesn't show improvement and pick up 1 mill in cap space.

Last group the Safeties
5 is also the safe number here.
1. R. Harrison
2. J. Johnson
3. G. Delpit
4. R. LeCounte III
5. J. Moffatt
Unless Redwine can do something special I believe Moffatt has done enough to earn that spot for now.


..................








If you don't follow https://twitter.com/chadp71 , I think you should. I know THROWLONG What's Twitter? This Browns fan puts in the time and IMO really knows The Game. Great during the Draft too!

5 Browns Position Battles Heading Into Preseason Finale
With just their preseason finale against the Atlanta Falcons to play, the Cleveland Browns have a number of positions to decide on in the coming week.
PETE SMITH

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/browns-position-battles-to-resolve



The Cleveland Browns were able to defeat the New York Giants 17-13, but they still have some looming questions on their roster including a few players who popped in the game. Between now and the conclusion of their exhibition finale against the Atlanta Falcons on Sunday Night Football, the Browns have several decisions to make as they prepare to set the final roster.

1. Connor Davis vs. 10th Offensive Lineman for backup tight end
Connor Davis has everything one could love about Darren Fells when he was with the Browns. Davis is massive at 6'7 1/2" and between 260 and 270 pounds. As a formere offensive tackle, he can reach drive block, but as he showed against the Giants, he can catches passes. Much like Fells, they may not be going far but he's a welcome target to have since he's the size of a minivan and is difficult to miss for a quarterback.

The injury to Stephen Carlson, which will keep him out for the year, opens up the Browns to keeping a fourth tight end option and Davis stands out as the favorite.

The Browns also have Jordan Franks and even utilized Johnny Stanton in that role, but Davis is the only viable option at this point. Franks is short and inconsistent. He's more of an H-back and played fullback in college. It did not help his case that he dropped a pair of passes against the Giants.

Stanton has had two terrific preseason games, but while he can do a few things in various roles, he's ultimately a backup fullback to Andy Janovich.

When they waive him, either another team will claim him or the Browns will get him back on the practice squad and can utilize him if Janovich is unavailable for a game.

Davis offers a skill set the Browns do not have at tight end. His frame, blocking and occasional receiving are all useful. However, they might be able to get Davis on the practice squad and if they can, they'd be able to activate him as needed and keep a 10th offensive lineman. That's pretty valuable consider the talent the Browns have at that on the line.

They could utilize an offensive lineman as a tight end in jumbo packages if they wanted. Kendall Lamm caught a touchdown pass in that capacity last year against the Tennessee Titans. The Browns could line up someone like Chris Hubbard, Michael Dunn or Blake Hance as a tight end and just run over the opponent.

The Browns would probably like to keep four tight ends, but they have an embarrassment of riches on the line and might want to keep as many as possible.

2. Nick Harris vs. Blake Hance for backup center
This only comes up as Hance played center for the Browns against the Giants and save for one snap issue between he and Case Keenum, he did pretty well. Harris was out due to a knee injury and it's not clear what the extent was, but even if he's fully healthy, there's a little bit of a debate here.

Harris is a center only. He proved to be abysmal at guard as a rookie and while added strength and experience will help, he's always going to be at a slight disadvantage there. His lack of height can be exploited.

He looked improved as a center in the preseason game against the Jacksonville Jaguars. More powerful, sure of himself and he looked like he did as a Washington Husky getting out in front of screens with his speed.

Hance is significantly bigger than Harris. A shade under 6'6", Hance offers more weight and positional versatility. He can play guard and was able to step in and play tackle in the postseason last year, doing a decent job against the Kansas City Chiefs.

Being a center only is fine when the starting center, but it becomes a disadvantage as depth. Hance being able to potentially play all five spots works heavily in his favor. Harris is younger at 22 years old while Hance is 25.

The Browns might not be able to get either through to their practice squad, but if they were to chance it, Harris might have the better chance since he's only a center and he's a scheme specific one at that, which is what makes for an interesting decision.

It's difficult to know if the Browns felt like Hance did enough in this game and any practice leading up to it to be confident in him if iron man J.C. Tretter were to go down, but they may be willing to chance it.

The ankle injury suffered by offensive tackle Alex Taylor may cause Browns to stash him on injured reserve for the year. Should that prove the case, there could be yet another wrinkle added to the mix, likely rendering this particular issue a moot point.

If Taylor is out for the year, beyond the starting five offensive linemen, the Browns would have Michael Dunn, who seems the safest of any backup offensive lineman at this point. In addition to Dunn, they would have Harris and Javon Patterson at center, Drew Forbes and Colby Gossett at guards along with James Hudson III, Greg Senat and Chris Hubbard at tackle, plus Blake Hance at everything.

Patterson seems the likeliest to be released and likely will end up on the practice squad. That leaves only seven players and the Browns are in a great position to keep five of them if they only have three tight ends. The injury to Taylor may ensure the Browns keep Chris Hubbard rather than trade or release him to clear up $4.96 million in cap space. It's possible that was the thinking all along and this just makes it easier.

They could keep Senat over Hubbard since Senat is younger and cheaper. That doesn't seem likely as the Browns know how valuable Hubbard was last year when they needed him to fill in at three spots on the line at points.

If the Browns were to release Harris, betting he'd make it to the practice squad, release Gossett or Senat with the assumption they will land elsewhere, the Browns could end up keeping almost all of the offensive linemen they wanted, which would be a pretty big coup for them.

They could, probably should make a trade somewhere.

3. Sheldon Day vs. Marvin Wilson vs. Malik McDowell for backup defensive tackle
The Browns have been fortunate to have a few viable options in their defensive tackle room that are good enough to make the final 53-man roster. Unfortunately, no one has truly separated themselves from the overall group.

Malik Jackson is a lock to make this team and it still seems as though Andrew Billings is the starting nose, despite some uneven play in the preseason, which seems more of an effort to get him in shape than truly evaluate him. He was better against the Giants than the Jaguars, which is a step in the right direction, but he can be a major addition to this defense this year if he plays to the level he's shown capable throughout his career.

After Jackson and Billings, it becomes pretty underwhelming. Much of this is a product of youth at a position that favors age and experience, both to physically handle the rigors of the NFL and to understand how to deal with what opponents are trying to do.

Jordan Elliott, now slimmed down to be a true three, has had some flashes, but he really hasn't been that steady. Still, the third round pick seems pretty safe to back up Jackson with the hope that he will continue to improve.

Behind Billings is where it gets murky. Tommy Togiai, one of the fourth round picks for the Browns in the 2021 season, has the physical tools and ability to potentially be the best pick they made this year. However, he will be just 22 years old September 19th and he never played over 300 snaps in a collegiate season.

Togiai has shown impressive flashes, both with power and quickness, so even if it's likely to be somewhat uneven this year, he's not going anywhere.

That already makes four defensive linemen on this team. They do seem likely to carry five as the position is both incredibly important to them in terms of what it does, but also because they have really divided up the position into roles. Pass rushers and run stoppers. Jackson can do both, but he's more suited to rush the passer.

Billings, Togiai and Marvin Wilson are suited to be run stoppers. Jackson and Elliott are pass rushers with Malik McDowell potentially contributing there as well. Sheldon Day can do a little bit of both as well, but he is what he is. He's not likely to get better, but rather try to maintain over the course of the season. Wilson and McDowell have meaningful upside that could be attractive to the Browns future.

The Browns have to weigh the present against the future as well as having an honest discussion about reliability. Day is the most reliable of the three options. Wilson has not been due to health while McDowell has not been due to off field issues dating back to an ATV action shortly after he was drafted by the Seattle Seahawks. That accident has reportedly had a lasting impact on McDowell.

The Browns would have a ton of insight when it comes to McDowell, which may make it an easy decision one way or the other in terms of keeping him.

McDowell was impressive in the first NFL game he's played in his career. Granted, often against guys who may not be likely to make the team, but he showed he could be dominant at the point of attack, both as a run defender and pass rusher.

On a two-point conversion attempt, McDowell fired with low pad level through a gap and bubbled the play to the right where teammates could corral the ball carrier and stop him short. He also showed some pass rushing ability in this contest.

The other aspect that could work in McDowell's favor, though he has yet to do it in the NFL is playing the role of big end. That's something Malik Jackson could also do, but hasn't really been asked to do at this point. The Browns desperately need more pass rush from their defensive line and McDowell could be an avenue to get it.

Coming into the season, it seemed like the best case scenario and perhaps the optimal situation for McDowell would be to be on the practice squad for a year. Given his issues off the field, that certainty within the Browns organization might paid off for him handsomely both on and off the field.

However, he may have made enough noise that he might get claimed elsewhere. The Browns will have to decide if they are willing to risk it. It's worth pointing out that McDowell is 25 years old, only three months younger than Billings.

Marvin Wilson is a rookie, but he's powerful at the point of attack. He looks exactly like the type of 1-tech nose team would want. The Browns were willing to give him a signing bonus that effectively made him the team's eighth round draft pick this year.

Cutting him would give him bonus money, but if he doesn't get claimed on waivers, would be a magnificent practice squad option that might even see the field this year. In the event the Browns were to decide not to re-sign Billings after this year, Wilson could potentially take over that role along with Togiai.

4. Joe Jackson vs. Curtis Weaver vs. Porter Gustin and the unknown for backup defensive end
The biggest question when it comes to edge defenders is the status of Takkarist McKinley. Kevin Stefanski acknowledges that he has had conversations with the free agent addition but will not reveal any details or updates on his situation.

If for whatever reason McKinley is unable to contribute, be it for a few games or the season, the Browns suddenly get remarkably thin on the edge behind Myles Garrett and Jadeveon Clowney.

Presumably, Porter Gustin is the favorite to be the next man up, though it's worth pointing out he looked far better when he was the fourth option rather than the third. Then, it becomes Joe Jackson against Curtis Weaver.

It always stood out that despite the fact that Cameron Malveaux was activated and played ahead of Jackson in games at times last season, the Browns never waived Jackson. He was on the active roster the entire season, only playing in 71 defensive snaps for the year.

Yet he endured. In the preseason, Jackson has been solid but unspectacular on the edge. He's huge, which works in his favor. Like with Clowney, Garrett, Jackson and even McDowell, Jackson is long and has plenty of size. He left the University of Miami at 6'4 1/2" 275 pounds and he doesn't look as though he's smaller now.

He has done a nice job playing contain and squeezing the run. Jackson hasn't shown much juice as a pass rusher but he displayed good closing speed against the Giants. He's still just 24 years old as well.

Meanwhile, the Browns put in a claim for Curtis Weaver when the Miami Dolphins waived him with an injury designation last year. They then put him on injured reserve for the season where he was able to rehab his foot injury and then work on his body. He was praised by any number of sources including general manager Andrew Berry, who noted how he had changed his body in the offseason.

There's no question that Weaver is in better shape and his body looks much better than it did when he was coming out from Boise State. He's been a decent run defender through two games, but has shown little, if any juice as a pass rusher to this point. He just turned 23 years old, so giving up on him doesn't make much sense, but it's really difficult to justify giving him a roster spot at this point.

Assuming another team does not claim him on waivers, Weaver could benefit from a year on the practice squad. He has good hands and decent technique, but he needs to be more explosive off the ball.

Joe Jackson might be the favorite to win the fourth defensive end spot in the event Takk McKinley is unavailable, but the Browns might also be looking for some help outside the organization to improve the situation.

5. KhaDarel Hodge vs. Anthony Schwartz's hamstring for the final wide receiver spot
It's still an unknown just how good the Browns wide receivers are. They have a significant amount of money and big names in the room, but it has yet to produce as was envisioned when it was put together.

What's clear is that the Browns have at least six NFL caliber wide receivers with a third round rookie in Anthony Schwartz unable to showcase much due to an ailing hamstring.

Schwartz has Olympic caliber speed and could also play gunner for the Browns, but they need him on the field. They've been extremely protective of Schwartz dating back to rookie minicamp. How much of that is precautionary is a mystery.

If it's a real problem, the Browns could potentially place Schwartz on injured reserve to start the season. The problem with that is they would need to waive a player to make space to do that just as they did with Drew Forbes in his rookie season.

Janovich might be such a player the Browns could make that happen.

Hodge was at times the third receiver on the Browns last year. Along with Donovan Peoples-Jones, he's the only other receiver on the team with that combination of size and strength. He also offers speed to stretch the field and is a terrific blocker.

As with Schwartz this year, hamstring injuries forced Hodge to miss eight games last season. When he was in games, every pass he caught was either a first down or touchdown. That has continued in the preseason where he made a couple nice catches against the Giants.

The Browns could theoretically trade Hodge. However, if the Browns do want to put Schwartz on the injured reserve list with the intent of bringing him back later, they would presumably prefer to have Hodge on the active roster. Plus, teams counting on Hodge to be released would then be forced to trade for him to get him on their team for week one of the season.

If the Browns were to trade Hodge rather than try to play roster gymnastics, they could simply keep Davion Davis on their roster until Schwartz is ready to go. He's got size and continues to show well in the preseason, would be a nice practice squad player for this team.

Hodge could be a nice third or fourth receiver on plenty of teams in the NFL. Getting moved from the Browns could be the best thing for him in terms of his career development and earning power. He is scheduled to earn $2,133,000 this season, which could be decent savings for the Browns and a pretty cheap acquisition for most anyone else.

Does Malik McDowell fit in with the Defensive Ends.

yes

my guess,

-->Defense: (25),

DE: (4),
Garrett
Clowney
McKinley? / Gustin
Weaver

DT: (5),
M Jackson
Togiai
Elliott
McDowell
Billings

LB: (6),
JOK
Walker
Takitaki
Smith
Lee
(#6; 1 of 2)
Fields II
Mack Wilson

CB; (5),
Ward
Newsome II
Williams
Hill
Green

Safety; (5),
Johnson III
Delpit
Harrison
LeCounte III
Moffatt

-->Offense: (25),

QB: (2),
Baker
Keenum

TE: (4),
Hopper
Njoku
Bryant
Stanton (FB)

OL; (9),
LT Wills
LG Bitonio
C Tretter
RG Teller
RT Conklin
OT Hudson
OL Hubbard
OL Hance
OC Harris

WR; (6),
OBJ
Landry
Higgins
DPJ
Schwartz
Hodge

RB: (4),
Chubb
Hunt
Felton
Johnson

FB:
Stanton (TE #4)

ST: (3),
LS
P
K

John Kelly deserves a spot, but the numbers probably won't allow that.

As a running back, he is better than Felton. Feltons worth will come in the WR room.

Felton coming out of the backfield with LB coverage makes him a huge threat.

That is is his value and running the ball enough to keep a LB in to handle him in those duties the duel threat is Felton's value. I like Kelly as well perhaps we can pick up a LB in a deal for either one of them?

Felton makes team as all around player, wr, rb, st returner, and he's ok to good at all of them. Go Browns!!!

Agree Felton will make the team.

I could not cut D'Ernest. Everytime he gets a chance. He delivers.

Kelly had a big day. But the numbers are against him.

We are going to have to cut guys that we like.

I'm sure Kelly knows he's the odd man out, and is just putting it all out there for the next team to come calling. This is his interview.

Imagine if that's KC now that Edwards may be hampered a couple weeks, possibly at the start if the season.

I thought about that, and agree, assuming we can get that match-up. I think soon enough teams will match him with a nickel or safety.

Don't get me wrong, I like the kid though maybe not as much as some if he is going to be a running back. I have seen some write things like him looking like Greg Pruitt.

I just don't see that.

I don't want to discount what any of backs have done.

However, during last season and so far this pre-season no matter who we put out there in the OL.

Backs are finding yards.

Callahan has to get some credit.

Chub and Hunt are both top tier running backs.

D'Ernest everytime he gets an opportunity he delivers.

Felton is different. He is exceptional catching the ball.
He makes people miss in small space.

He will be a weapon for designed plays. He could be great as an option underneath longer patterns on crossing routes.

Also on third downs with 5 to 9 yards to go. Those quick stick routes. He gets seperation. He is a yac threat.

He will have a role on this team.

I was thinking along these lines too. Even our back-up OL looked pretty good. It won't surprise me at all if some other teams with lesser OLs pick up our RBs and they are decidedly mediocre behind another OL.

Chubb and Hunt are both great backs.

IMO they would prove that on just about any team.

But the zone blocking scheme first run by Mike Shanahan always produced good numbers.

We know Callahan is a great coach. He must be because we have plugged a bunch of guys in and still get results.

Our offense is going to rock.

We have not seen yet what we will see. We played pretty straight football so far. And no doubt we will not open the play book Sunday.

Schwartz will have plays. Felton will have plays.
Not a lot but they will be sprinkled in.

We have so many play options. We can game plan teams to attact any weakness in a defense.

My only concern as of right now is:
interior defensive line play and depth at DE.

With Takk McKinley injured/ out at Right DE.
and Jacob Phillips injured/ out at Right side OLB/DE
It's obvious they should put Malik McDowell outside at Right DE, then line up Clowney either outside or inside of him each snap.
Counting on lesser players at their own peril.

The status of McKinley is unknown. However, he is expected back.

McDowell has not played a game in four years. I don't think right now he is guaranteed a roster spot.

The DT starters are most likely Malik Jackson and Billings. Elliott and Togiai will be in the mix as backups.
Wilson and McDowell are fighting for a roster spot.

IMO there is a chance that a trade may happen that could bring someone else into the picture.

Billings and Jackson are experienced players. Neither guy is a long term answer.

Elliott and Togiai are players they are counting on to develop. It remains to be seen if they will be starters at some point.

Wilson and McDowell have a lot to prove.

All of this is why I am still concerned to a degree.

No doubt Felton will have a role. I hope I didn't sound like i don't think so.

I see him taking Landrys role next season. I just don't see him as more than just a guy as a back.

I don't know bro, things get tricky if we're gonna stick to the mantra... "Smart, tough, accountable".

He's obviously missed all the "work". What's the excuse? Do the other players know the excuse? Is it just "Takk's stepped away for personal reasons"?

He has a legit reason for missing time.

Don't count Sheldon out just yet.

Felton is 5'9". I can't see him taking Landry's role, despite all the Tyreek hype. I mean what's his 40? Maybe I'm mistaken. I DO think he's going to be a great weapon backfield/slot.

Thanks for the update GM

4.58 40 at the combine

I'm assuming your wording means the org sees it that way -- that's good. And hopefully he doesn't try to circumvent the "help system" of a strong organization. Any mental issue is usually hush-hush (and rightfully so). From a fan's point of view, Takk's history has also exhibited some "attitude" issues, so "hush-hush" just leaves us wondering.

I would love nothing more than for him to return and make an impact, but that's just the fan part of me. He seems like a genuine "good guy" that has just been through the wringer of life in ways most of us could never imagine. So from that point of view, here's hoping for the best for Takk, whether he makes an impact on the field or not.

Right, I am talking about him in the slot, where Landry should be playing. DPJ will take over outside. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

IMO there are people who know.

KS has made statements to the effect "that I will keep that between me and Takk."

Berry would know and maybe some teammates.

All I know is up to the point he left. All was going good. He was in great shape. He was working hard in practice. He seemed like all business. He was polite and thankful for the opportunity.

I don't want to speculate.

They went after Takk hard. He came in knowing this was an oppourtuity to reestablish himself as a player.

Hopefully he returns soon. The players behind Clowney and Myles at DE currently have not made a splash.

I would think this week is important.

Takk McKinley is back.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2021/08/24/takk-mckinley-returns-to-team-no-practicing-yet/

So, he has been back a few days. Has not yet practiced.

That's great news. I hope he feels (and is given) the love, respect and support from his teammates and coaches and can move forward from whatever is troubling him.

Let's go do this Takk, you are in the near-perfect position to let your talent and hard work shine on the brightest of stages!

I wonder how the whole DL ends up.

Glad he is back. He is a young guy with plenty of upside.

I forgot about Sheldon Day. He is a vet who has played well.

j/c

I posted about this in the Giants game day forum but I will mention it again here.

What Felton brings is a different dimension to the backfield. Now as far as a pure bruising RB in the pure sense of the word, John Kelly is superior. But he is very much a carbon copy of the same "type of back" we have in both Chubb and Hunt.

Felton is more of the scat back variety. Smaller, slipper and elusive. He's the Swiss Army Knife. While people speak of speed, often times it's far more about your cuts and shiftiness than straight line speed.

He can line up as a RB and then split out and line up as a WR causing the opposing D to have to make last minute changes. He can also line up as a WR and drop back into the RB position pre snap and the opposition has to consider him a threat at both positions.

It's a dimension our O has been lacking. It helps to expand the playbook. So what I think it boils down to is do we want to have more of a variety of skills that create more options on our O or do we want another carbon copy of the same skill set we already have more than one of?

I'm thinking that gives Felton the advantage here. Making him strictly a WR becomes problematic. We have a bevy of WR's now and trying to decide who to let go and who to keep is hard enough as it is. Designating him as a RB and using him at that position as well as a WR allows us to designate him a RB and gives us the versatility to expand the things we can do on O.

I agree 100%.

This offense isn't just built on great play design and execution, it's built on keeping the defense on it's heels within the flow of play-calling and personnel packages. Making the opponent "guess" pre-snap is just as important as the rest of the mix... some may even argue that it is a prerequisite.

I'm just a person who feels the more looks you can throw at the opposing defense the better. You summed it up pretty well.

Felton reminds me a lot of Duke Johnson. A good runner, slippery and elusive, and a really good "get a 1st down" type receiver. Maybe he's not going to break a ton of long plays, but he will be a useful weapon.

Landry won't even be 30 years old this time next year, wondering why you see him as gone.. contract demands?

And Landry's role is precision route running, extraordinary hands, good blocking, great effort, and team leadership... seems like an awful lot to ask of a guy who will be going into his 2nd season as a 6th round pick and who, up until recently, was considered more of a RB than a WR.

And I'll add this, since it seems to be overlooked by many because he doesn't have blazing speed. Landry's RAC, particularly in traffic, is better than anyone on the team not named Chubb.

Even though there isn't anyone on the team that duplicates what Landry brings to the offense (just so we're clear, I'm a huge Landry fan), I can see the FO wanting one or more of the young'ins to take Landry's reps. We're spending a ton of money on the offense, and Baker still needs to be signed, plus we've got Njoku and Teller that are gonna get paid by someone. Something's gotta give somewhere, and there's an awful lot of money going to the WR room.

JC

Question about Higgins.
Why doesn't he play special teams? For a guy consistently on the roster bubble I would think it would be beneficial for him to do so. Is it that he won't or that he can't (do it well)?

If he won't, that's a huge red flag in my book.
If he can't, why can't he? Seems mostly an effort role.

He’s not ‘sudden’. He’s not got blazing speed. He’s a route running machine with hands. Special teams is for a different breed of cat.
I’d bet he’s on the ‘hands team’ for onside kicks.

I understand lack of blazing speed and lack of suddenness making him less than ideal as a kick returner. But he could be a a guy in the row in front of the returner and block. He can run down and tackle the other teams returner.

It comes down to.
I don't like players with glass cielings. If they've been around enough time and clearly their performance level shows no hints of spiking towards special
then, if you think about it, those players are easier to replace, in time.

And if they are going to let some guys go, with unlimited potential, and they achieve greatness with another team, that's going to suck, and it would look bad as an organization, over time.

Cutdown day is going to be like a surgery you don't want to have.
Let's Get this #$$##** over with!

I don't remember Duke Johnson looking as Fast as Felton looked, but of course we'll have to see more than 1 half of 2 preseason games.

Per 92.3 the Fan, Davion Davis suspended the first 2 weeks of the season by the Browns for violating league policy on substance abuse.

So that just means that if he makes the final roster we won't be paying him for two weeks and is not meant to be an indication that he will make that cut. Right? Or am I missing something?

Definitely makes him easier to stash on the practice squad, imo.

Bad but good at the same time. IIRC suspended players don't count against the 53 roster, so we'll have two more weeks to decide on him and possibly shop him. Silver linings aside, hope he's not another Josh Gordon.

Felton should be able to bring many of those. Leadership? I don't think there is a void of leadership on the team.

Oh....yes, Landrys salary would be the factor.

Well, if that's true, that's awesome. Nothing like "buying time" to make a decision.

But if he is like a Josh Gordon or Antonio Calloway, do we want to stash him?.

Davison Davis

Berry: "Here, hit this"
Davis: "You sure it's ok?"
Berry: "I know what I'm doing".

Thanks.

A football team should not be 10 times better on July 23rd than it is on August 24th

This is very bad for fans.

lmao! I won't lie, that's exactly what was going through my head when I read this new development.

I wonder if there has been communication with the league and a two week suspension was inevitable? Rather than waiting for the league to hand it down -- we enforce it now and they uphold it. Wouldn't be a hard sell for Davion to understand the strategy.

AB is next level, we're seeing it over and over again. Won't be surprised at all that this is just another example.

Now I see that it was the NFL handing down the suspension and the Browns were merely announcing it. AB is still an evil genius though.

Is Rashard Higgins Browns roster spot safe from Davion Davis?
by Elliot Kennel 4 hours ago Follow @ebkennel

Davion Davis has been so sensational this summer that he may beat out Rashard Higgins for a wide receiver position on the Browns roster.

Rashard “Hollywood” Higgins at times was the best receiver that the Cleveland Browns had last season, when Odell Beckham, Jr. went down with a knee injury and Jarvis Landry was not his normal Pro Bowl self as he struggled to play with badly bruised ribs.

Is it possible that Davion Davis has been so impressive that the Browns will be forced to keep him, along with young players that they have committed to such as Donovan Peoples-Jones and Anthony Schwartz?

If so, will they have room for Higgins as a seventh wide receiver behind OBJ, Landry, DPJ, Schwartz, KhaDarel Hodge, and Davis? Or if they cut KhaDarel Hodge, then Higgins is still only the number six wide receiver if Davis is also kept.

We’re not even counting Demetric Felton as a wide receiver, assuming that he will be assigned to the running backs room. But if we think of Felton as a slot receiver, that makes as many as eight wide receivers that the Browns consider to be NFL quality players.

This is a very tough call, especially if the Browns want to commit to four running backs, a fullback and four tight ends this season. On a few occasions, this writer has suggested that the Browns will leave summer camp with only three tight ends on the active roster, although DPD’s readers have written to disagree, with about 95% insisting that four tight ends are essential to run the two-tight-end offense of coach Kevin Stefanski and offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt. Perhaps this is so.

In any case, readers of this space were told that the Browns had added a wide receiver who could make OBJ-style circus catches, in the person of Davion Davis, who recently joined the Browns after having left the employ of the Minnesota Vikings. Davis does not have the Combine times.

He just lights it up when you throw him the ball, and he can make catches with one hand, the way OBJ does. He has now led Browns wide receivers in catches and yardage two weeks in a row.

Davion Davis was brilliant again, leading the team in receiving yardage for the second week in a row on three catches for 45 yards. There is no position for this kid on the roster, but how will the Browns keep him off the team?

His story is that he is too slow and not big enough, but throw the ball anywhere near him and he will catch it. He has made the national highlights with his touchdown catch versus Jacksonville. Also, if you have not seen it yet, check out the catch that Southland Conference calls the catch of the year. It looks like Odell Beckham, Jr., doesn’t it?

Here’s the problem. Many observers believe that Donovan Peoples-Jones is slowly advancing on the third-string wide receiver job behind OBJ and Jarvis Landry this year. By “slowly advancing,” we mean about the same rate of speed as a falling safe.

Peoples-Jones is a serious threat to take over the number three wide receiver job. Draft picks Anthony Schwartz and Demetric Felton cannot be cut unless they are first subjected to waivers, and if the Browns attempt to subject them to waivers, they will predictably be taken by another NFL team.

Similarly, if the Browns decide to cut KhaDarel Hodge, he will become a free agent since he is a veteran. The Browns cannot just automatically assign him to the practice squad. He would have to first clear waivers, then agree to a new free-agent contract. Why would he do that?

On the other hand, the Browns cannot cut Davion Davis without first subjecting him to waivers. We cannot assume that only the Browns know about him now. The cat is out of the bag now. He is on ESPN’s SportsCenter and everywhere else making highlight-reel catches.

Even though it’s pre-season, the scouts are watching. They are not stupid. They can see Davis make these sensational catches against NFL defensive backs. Even if they are not against premier defenders, if he continues to light it up as he has for the first two exhibitions, Davis will definitely be claimed off the waiver wire by some time lacking depth at wide receiver (the Baltimore Ravens, perhaps?).

That will be the end of that. Therefore, the Browns cannot afford to just give away talent like this.

The Browns actually have talent at the bottom of the roster, and especially at the wide receiver position. This author believes in putting the 11 most talented players on the field whenever possible, and this season, three and even four of those players can be wide receivers.

It’s not like a few years ago when the only reliable players were running backs, the fullback, and tight ends. At that time I never wanted to see more than two wide receivers on the field at the same time, not because it is a faulty offense, but because the Browns had very little talent at that position.

Now things are different.

Heck, hire Mike Martz as a consultant for the four-wide-receiver spread formation. Players like Davion Davis may be the real deal and the Browns ought not gift wrap him in purple and black wrapping paper just because they are averse to multiple wide receivers on the field at the same time.

The Browns cannot hang onto Davis, Higgins, Hodge, a fourth tight end, and two fullbacks. If the Browns try to waive four of these players to hide them on the practice squad, in all probability, they are not going to clear waivers.


https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/08/24/ra...prFDGBxuJ7w9YKY

I think it's Schwartz they want to stash, whom they couldn't put on Ir designated for return until after sept. 1st.

I don't worry about it at all. If the Browns brass feel it's legit, which they must because he's been excused, then I'm not worried at all..

Berry and Stefanski don't appear the be the type that would let anything but a Legit excuse work.

That author fails to note that if other teams have noticed, then he can easily be traded.

I mentioned earlier there are bound to be a surprise cut or two. Higgins could certainly qualify and be one of them.

Higgins is a nice player but he is what he is. I don't see much more growth in his game. Davis looks to be a budding star. We are at the point where I think we need to take a chance on that. The potential reward is worth the risk in losing Higgy.

That writer is nuts if he thinks Baker will let them cut Higgins. Hollywood has saved his butt and made him look good too many times IMHO.

Since OBJ arrived in Cleveland, hardly a week has gone by without someone, somewhere speculating on the Browns trading him away. These speculations have been, for me, easily dismissed as either clickbait, or people assuming the hapless Browns could be swindled with shiny trinkets. But now, with the depth of our receiving corps, trading Beckham is starting to make sense. I'm not advocating it, but he is the most tradable player in that room. And while trading him would be a drop-off in talent, that drop-off is smaller now than it has been in my memory.

I need to see some more out of DPJ (particularly live fire) before I fully jump on any trade OBJ wagon. I get wanting to stay ahead of cap issues (and they're coming) but we're set for the season and we have our offensive weapons ready to go. There's no rush just yet.

Yup he's the guy that catches about everything thrown to him... He's slow, but he finds a way to get open.

He does have a good relationship with Baker..

This discussion of keeping Davis over Higgins seems insane to me. Trading Higgins may or may or not be a consideration, but if it is for the purpose of saving a roster spot for this dude? I just don't see it.

Every year there are camp/pre-season all-stars out of nowhere. Rarely do they ever pan out to be good NFL players. Ben Gay anyone? This article reads like it was written by a 20 year old that has only been following the league for a few years.

I like Baker, but if he is in charge of cuts, we are sunk.

I agree and don't think he is or should be in charge of cuts.

I will say, though, that he is clutch and he and Mayfield seem to be more on the same page than any other WR. He produces at a very consistent level when he shows up. It's one of those intangible things where he doesn't get a ton of separation, he doesn't outmatch his guy, but he just makes the play. There's a very good chance we don't win that Bengals game last year without him.

He seems to be quite the safety net for Mayfield, and I don't think that's lost on the coaches. At least I hope it isn't.

Agreed. Keep Higgins. End of story.

I like Higgins. But, he doesn't play a whole lot of special teams, and he's not really a guy you scheme to get the ball. Yes, he's been reliable and is well-liked, but the roster is getting to the point where that might not be enough.

I can see arguments for keeping OBJ, Landry, DPJ, Hodge, and Felton as our WRs over him. Maybe keep Davion Davis/Bradley/whoever on the practice squad. Hunt, D'Ernest, Njoku, Bryant, even Stanton (ha ha) have shown they can flex out if we need them to.

There is the chemistry angle, but that only goes so far. Higgins' contract hints that the FO sees him as at least somewhat expendable. His contract could look appealing to a WR needy team in trade.

I do agree that the article was underwhelming.

Davis over Higgins? Got to be joke. Davis is 25 years old and has played a total of 3 NFL snaps in 2 years, he was on the Vikings Practice squad in 2019 and activated for 2 games, he was then cut during training camp in 2020 and no one picked him up, now because he makes a couple of plays against backup/out of work players and he's a stud. lol

Man, I am really pulling for this cat. It's a great story, and if he can make the team and contribute, it's yet another huge feather in Berry's cap. Not only that, but our interior DL could REALLY use the help.

Berry just finds talent. He's a master of measuring risk with the overlooked player.

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find one of these low-risk/high-reward situations that I WON'T cheer for. I'm really pulling for this guy to salvage what he can of a pro career while potentially contributing to our defensive overhaul.

I think the key part is that our locker room culture is such that it can take on guys like this and be a positive/productive environment.

Just Clicking.. Not sure if it's being discussed anywhere or even if it's worth discussing.

Taco Charlton was Cut by KC today. The coaches out there said that it was a tough cut.. They like him a lot. He was with them last year in the run up to the SB.

Might he be a possible fit for us here?

If the Browns are allowing Baker to make roster calls they're doing it wrong.

Browns just signed LB Tegray Scales.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/bro...%20last%20year.

There is a lot of money going to Landry and OBJ. And if you tell me one of them has to go, it's not even close in my mind. We proved what we could do last year without OBJ..

We may also have to decide between Hooper and Njoku and roll with the other young guys as TEs.. (if you are including them in the WR room discussion)...

Also surprised we signed Hunt to what we did..

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike any of these players but we are in the new position of having to make difficult choices on good players.. and my point is, Landry is one that I would fight to keep.. all of this could be amended based on what guys like Higgins and DPJ do this season....

And a quick search of Tegray Scales just signed by the Browns shows that Tegray Scales has links to ???

It seems like 5 of the last 10 guys signed by the Browns out of nowhere all have links to ???
anybody? see the pattern, the same team?

It was the Buccaneers. Togiai, pre draft. This linebacker. and at least one more, maybe the TE Davis.

IIRC. this is at least the 2nd if not 3rd year of the final two weeks before cutdowns to 53 where you've advocated for releasing or moving on from Higgins.

I'm glad for what we saw of his success last year.

I am not advocating it. I am saying I see it as a possibility and wouldn't be shocked if it happened.

Comes down to Higgins and Davis right?

I don't know. For a while we can more or less keep both. Come week 3, who knows? Maybe that, or maybe someone gets hurt, or any number of possibilities that enable us to keep both all season.

Funny....cut down day is nearing draft day importance.

No. Hodge is a possibility to go.

A Schwartz, nobody even knows if he can go he practiced one time this month with a hamstring?
Davion Davis can't even keep out of league suspension. ( < 2 lines of Obvious purple sarcasm. )

Rashard Higgins was an incorrect referees call from winning you the Divisional playoff game over the chiefs!

And the writer of that article, probably says the flipping LINEBACKER they JUST SIGNED is ahead of Higgins on the WR depth chart.

It's UN-BE-LIEVABLE the disrespect they're showing our beloved Fan Favorite Hollywood Higgins'

(Who should phase out that stupid end zone celebration because it's going to draw a taunting penalty on something else as a make up call, because other teams see it as like staring at a home run in baseball.)
and Higgins could just do a spike, or a point at the scoreboard, or a Leap into the dawg pound any number of things.)

Nothing would surprise me at this point. Well, short of selling the whole league to Mexico.

And Hodge, is not very good, he is constantly stalling drives, hindering the flow of the offense, dropping passes, going back to the first few weeks of last years season, he doesn't get separation, he doesn't beat coverges or place himself in better spots anything above average. He is easily one of the top 3 easiest to replace players in that skilled position area, but I'm biased. ( Hodge, Stanton and Janovich). Who are the 3 easiest to replace skilled position Browns offensive players?
I'm not even counting Kelly or Harbison.

Can say this about Higgins though.
The number of times in nearly 50 years of watching football.
Where a player makes a play like that fumble in the playoff game the final game of the season, and that player is waived on final cuts of the ensuing season, in what feels like a statement from the owner;
is way greater than zero.

I don't see the Browns cutting Higgins. That doesn't mean they won't but I just don't see it.

For whatever reason he and Baker are well connected, and that really is the requirement for any WR on the Browns roster. We all know we can count on Higgins when the bullets are flying. You can take all the better raw talent there is in the world and stick it Baker and Higgins works really really well.

BTW Felton won't be the reason the Browns move on from Landry that will be money and Felton is unlikely to gain so much as a snap because Landry is gone. I think that roll will go DJJ and or Swartz. Keep your eyes on these 2 players and how they develop as this season goes on. DPJ is already pushing for playing time if Swartz does as well Landry and OBJ will likely be playing for someone else next year.

But Felton taking Landry's job NEVER.

This Davis over Higgins talk...
Is Davis a willing blocker? One of the things I like about Hollywood’s game. 3 wide sets are the the norm and if you can bring the slot in motion to help seal the edge or get to the 2nd level on a run play out of a pass formation when it looked like the strong side was something else initially; that’s a big deal to me.

I know Hodge is fast, but I don’t see him consistently chipping a linebacker or going toe to toe with a safety. DPJ has that big body who I would think could develop his blocking. This makes me think it’s not Higgins v Davis, but Hodge v DPJ, or Hodge v Davis, with Hodge on the outside looking in.

j/c

Davis over Higgins?
This is a bit premature.


Higgins is the #3/#4 WR. Davis won't displace Higgins. Davis will displace one of the other guys trying to make the roster.

Davis is listed as the 4th string WR behind OBJ, Higgins, and Schwartz.
I see it far more likely that he displaces the likes of KhaDarel Hodge or Ja'Marcus Bradley.

Davis, right now, is practice squad bound unless we can bait someone into trading for him.


Here's his history, for a little context:

July 31, 2021: Cleveland Browns signed WR Davion Davis.

August 4, 2020: Minnesota Vikings cut WR Davion Davis.

August 3, 2020: Minnesota Vikings waived WR Davion Davis.

January 13, 2020: Minnesota Vikings signed WR Davion Davis to a Reserve/Future contract.

January 12, 2020: Minnesota Vikings signed WR Davion Davis to a Reserve/Future contract.

November 14, 2019: Minnesota Vikings added WR Davion Davis to the practice squad.

November 13, 2019: Minnesota Vikings cut WR Davion Davis.

November 12, 2019: Minnesota Vikings waived WR Davion Davis.

October 24, 2019: Minnesota Vikings activated WR Davion Davis from the practice squad.

October 14, 2019: Minnesota Vikings cut WR Davion Davis.

October 12, 2019: Minnesota Vikings waived WR Davion Davis.

September 2, 2019: Minnesota Vikings added WR Davion Davis to the practice squad



He has played a total of 3 offensive snaps and 8 special teams snaps in two games, back in 2019.

Yes, he has made some plays for us against 3rd & 4th string players, but if he's going to make a roster, that's how he SHOULD look.

I agree with that as well.

The key is knowing when to keep a player when he is finally ready to shine, so past context may not mean all that much.

j/c

Higgins and Baker have a connection mostly due to the fact that Higgins is an excellent route-runner with excellent hands...and is not a smurf-type WR. He's exceptionally reliable.

They also appear to get along quite well off the field too. While not necessary for building an on-field connection, it sure can't hurt.

Last thing to consider. We will run a nickle and dime defense (pun city)...with (2) LBs most of the time. That means we will have a few lighter, faster LBs, several CBs and maybe (5) S's. Plenty of options to choose from on STs. Also, Higgins is a good-enough WR that we don't need him to play STs to garner playing time...meaning that he doesn't have to be a ST contributor to justify his spot on the 53.

JMO

With the drawback that he can't be used in an emergency. If you need to replace an injured WR from the practice squad, Davis would have to serve a 2 game suspension before he's available.

If it comes to that, then Higgins is the one I keep.

Never is really out there. All of us are replaceable. ALL. We aren't promised tomorrow - and playing on an NFL team- every player is one play away from never playing again. Possibly.
Our depth is lot better than in other decades, I'm glad. Hope coach keeps the powder dry for KC....GO Browns!!!

Re-posted for emphasis. Great point.

Though Higgins was instructed not to reach for the endzone on those types of plays for that reason, you make a great point. I think we've trained ourselves over the 'lean' years to read way too much into training camp darlings. Davis's handful of catches in training camp and preseason should never trump Higgins' body of work with the Browns. Makes no sense.

I don't think Davis would be in any way a factor of whether Higgins makes the roster or not. They aren't even in the same conversation as far as I'm concerned. That doesn't mean that WR's above Davis on the depth chart may not be a part of that conversation.

Maybe I and/or we are reading into the WR cuts too far re: Higgins.

Does anyone think Hodge might have a shot at starting the season above Higgins on the depth chart? Note: he did last year
-I would hope not. I think Higgins' body of work is far better than Hodge (or even DPJ, at this point).

How much will "position value" play into surprise cuts? Would we keep an extra Dlineman because the system calls for it over a WR that we really really like?

It would not be a shock to me to see Billings moved, given his performance so far. As a veteran, even after a year away, he should not be struggling so much. Jackson is obviously a starter. But Day has been better than Billings, and has a history with our DL coach, so that may factor in. If Day starts, that means Billings is then in consideration alongside 2 Berry draft picks…not a great place for a struggling vet to be on cutdown day.

I'll just add to what I think it was Peen touched on earlier.

Last year both Hodges and DPJ got game reps ahead of Higgins. Now fans can agree or disagree on whether that was appropriate or not but Stefnaski based that decision on factors he deemed made those decisions appropriate.

Now from that point forward everything is nothing more than a guess on my part but is founded on one simple factor I think we can all agree on. A lot of our cap is being spent on the WR position. Finding the replacements for Landry and OBJ is of paramount importance moving forward.

Now I'm not one who sees that in Hodges. But what I do see is versatility in Hodges. He mananges to fit into ST. Something that for some reason Higgins hasn't seemed to do.

Higgins will be entering his sixth NFL season. Two of those seasons he neared 600 yards in reception yardage and in the others nowhere close to that.

So how many seasons does it take before you can reasonably conclude that a WR has peaked? At what point does a coaching staff come to the realization that a WR isn't going to "replace Landry or OBJ" and give those reps to someone who may develop into a WR that can?

We have both DPJ going into his second season and Schwartz who was just drafted. There is a lot of room for both of them to grow and progress. It's just the beginning of both their careers.

Now on a personal level I think Higgins brings more than enough to the table as a WR to be on the 53 man roster. But what I am saying is that we have a lot of talent at the position. I can see a scenario in which this FO and coaching staff might see the wisdom of investing the roster spots and reps to younger talent in hopes they can develop into a player that can replace someone like Landry or OBJ moving forward rather than invest that in a WR they see as already have peaked they know will not replace either of those two.

It's going to be hard on a lot of us fans when the final cuts are made. Harder than any season before since our return because players we like and think should stay will be gone. I have no idea nor am I advocating Higgins be one of them. But I'm not going to deny the possibility exists. I believe if it actually came down to it, he could be traded rather than cut.

Edit to add. Of course Higgins body of work is better than DPJ's. Higgins has had five seasons to build that body of work. DPJ has had one.

Last year we had OBJ, Landry, Higgins,DPJ, Hodge, Natson. I think we had a couple others at times, if anything nothing changes this year, Only position i see Davis maybe taking is Natson, The only way that happens if they plan on using Felton as a returner or maybe DPJ again. I don't think its a Higgins vs Hodges thing at all

What exactly are you referring to?

Targets/Receptions
RH - 52/37
DPJ - 20/14
KH - 17/11

Games/started
RH - 13/6
DPJ - 12/2
KH - 9/0

#Browns
@j_owuu
was stellar in coverage at Notre Dame, allowing a career completion percentage of just 46%, 4.8 yards per target and -18.7 EPA (h/t SIS)

He and teammate, JJIII, could be pivotal against defending TEs in ‘21 (Browns allowed 4th-most TDs to the position in ‘20).

https://twitter.com/CodySuek/status/1430971277590900738

First couple weeks of the season, Hodge (specifically) was getting the most use between him, DPJ and Higgins. It wasn't until Hodge went down with an injury that Higgins started receiving meaningful snaps on Sundays.

Yesterday I was Upset!

Today I have a beter understanding of concluding how the process will go.

Relax! Trust the process.

This is the one thing, these Harvard dudes are actually good at.

You don't have the bengals or others' bad management waiting around to screw this up, you can keep almost everybody.

I did the math, it's not easy because I'm slow, and nobody likes math.
(I could explain it but it'll be lengthy) better to just relax.

I should have stated that differently. When injuries occurred, both DPJ and Hodges were given reps ahead of Higgins.

I am glad you posted this. I was having a similar thought and struggled with where to post it.

A lot of people talk about using JOK to corral Lamar and Mahomes. But I was thinking using him in coverage against Kelce and Andrews would have a bigger impact. Especially against the Ravens. Lamar can be contained by setting a strong edge. The guys we had last year were way too slow. I think Clowney can do that.

But taking Andrews out of the game would be huge.

OOBER and PIT,

Got it...I didn't remember how/when those snaps broke down. Still could have something to do with Higgins not fully rising from the depths he was put in 2019 until later in the year.

I certainly don't see big upside for Higgins, but is Hodge's better? And as far as finding ways to get open and having a good rapport with Baker, Higgins is already a poor man's Landry.

Bottom line, I would be shocked if our WR a week from now didn't include all 5 of OBJ, Landry, DPJ, Higgins, Hodge. I got into this Higgins discussion because it started out as Higgins vs. Davion Davis, which is full-on crazy cat lady talk.

We're dealing with a Browns team that had the #1 RB Nick Chubb actually run out of o bounds at the 2 yard line when he was broken away for a clear Touchdown just so the team could take a knee and run out the clock to ensure a win.

Wide Receivers: They can keep 9 if they want to.
How? and Where?

As long as they are willing to put 4 of those Wr's on IR after the initial 53, destined for return later in the season, they can keep 5 avail for kickoff game 1.
That's where^, Here is how.

As long as they are sure they can waive a Safety #4,#5, and #6, plus a linebacker or DE #5, and #6, and they will all clear waivers,

Then for the 24 hours of the initial roster, you don't have any safeties or linebacker + DE depth but you have 9 WR, but you don't have to play a game.

Then, after 24 hours you put 4 of your Wr's on IR designated for return and bring back players for Linebacker and Safety, and Defensive end depth.

Conclusion. Under current rules. If you need a WR, which you don't want to expose to the waiver wire, simply
Waive TE number 4, or Running backs #5, and #6, and if 24 hours later you still can find "some" running back #5, or TE #4 to bring back, you can place that WR. on Ir designated for return.

I mean they could keep 12, TWELVE, OL, with this math.

The Crazy thing, is, ... because of this, they can cut the roster to 23 instead of 25 per side and keep an open slot (just for that 24 hour period) to still poach players they like from other teams.

It even made sense if Davion Davis wasn't suspended and took a spot, the Browns would have one slot open to scour the wire for a player they like.
Then, after I did all the figuring, I remembered Davion Davis' suspension means he won't count against a roster spot for the first two season weeks, so...
The Browns would have 2 open spots to scour the waiver wire for the entire 24 hour period to bring in a player they like,
like a MotherLovin Healthy Cornerback for goodness sakes.


Of Course it's not that simple. Because it's predicated on who, and how much so, they are willing to expose whichever fringe players to the waiver wire with the hopes of bringing them back.

But the Point is. If only one thing to get, get this: the point is.
They don't have to risk Higgins to keep Higgins.
They can risk Janovich to keep Higgins.
Or.
any of a thousand vice versas. < that is the point.

Thanks for posting this because I did not think that sounded accurate. IT seemed to me Higgins was playing a fair amount and when OBJ went down, DPJ started getting in.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HiggRa00/fantasy/2020

Higgins started out the year playing little, then that ramped up quickly in week 5 (wasn't on the field at all weeks 3, 4). Something that caught my eye, though, were his ST snaps.

Coincidentally, Hodge seemed to be out there for ~50% of the offensive snaps until he missed a bunch of time (weeks 4-7).
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HodgKh00/fantasy/2020

Lastly, DPJ's snap counts don't start until week 4 and is sporadic until week 11 or 12.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PeopDo00/fantasy/2020

“full-on crazy cat lady talk”

This made me smile, dude. I’m going to use that in a conversation, where applicable!
That struck me as funny .

I don't think Higgins has any fear of being cut. In fact, I think both Higgins and Hodge make the team. Here's the way I see the roster playing out:

QB (2) - Baker, Keenum

WR (6) - OBJ, Landry, DPJ, Higgins, Schwartz, Hodge

RB (4) - Chubb, Hunt, Johnson, Felton

FB (1) - Janovich

OL (10) - Wills, Bitonio, Tretter, Teller, Conklin, Hubbard, Hudson, Dunn, Harris, Hance

TE (3) - Hooper, Njoku, Bryant

Offense total - 26

DL (9) - Garrett, Clowney, Jackson, Day, Takk, Elliott, Gustin, Togiai, Trade target/McDowell

Yes, I think Billings is a surprise cut. We make a trade for another DT or keep McDowell

LB (5) - Walker, Takitaki, Wilson, Smith JOK

Not sure what they are doing with Phillips, he hasn't been put on IR yet?

CB (6) - Ward, Newsome, Greedy, Hill, Green, M.J. Stewart

S (4) - Johnson, Harrison, Delpit, LeCounte

Defense total - 24

Special teams (3) - Gillan, McLaughlin, Hughlett

I think we keep more than 4 Safeties. We will play 3 at a time as a base. I can't see us keeping only 1 backup.

YTOWN,

I tend to agree. JOK could factor in, as he might be that 3rd safety at times. But there's almost no way, IMO, that we keep only 5 backers and 4 safeties in favor of a 9th Dlineman.

Relatedly, this is an interesting primer on practice squad rules as we think about who may be cut.

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2021/8/2...gibility-salary

That’s pretty good. I thought a 4th TE was a forgone conclusion though I don’t know who. Also would not be surprised to see Billings go and keep McDowell. A risky move but I’d support it. Also think Takitaki is out in favor of another S.

I'm just trying to think about gameday rosters, and how that will look, and how we keep the most talent that we can. We definitely have more talent on offense than defense.


Based on my 53 man roster, I think on gameday (when you can only have 48), you leave off Johnson, Schwartz, 2 OL, and 1 DL.

Safety is interesting. I think JOK has to factor in. I just have a hard time believing Redwine is one of our top 53 talents this year. If he is on the 53, he's probably one of our gameday inactives unless someone else is hurt. Too many other guys I'd rather keep that have way more potential than him. Keep other safeties on the practice squad, but don't waste a spot on our 53-man roster.

If viewed as a group, I can see us keeping 10 or 11 DBs, total. Split that between S & CB however you want. Heck, I wouldn't be shocked to see us keep 6 of each, actually. In Dime, you've got 6 on the field at once, so you probably should have that many plus a backup for each, especially in this system where Woods wants to go Dime a LOT.

Very informative , thanks .. Lots to play with if your in The FO.

I agree about the flexibility PS now allows. I was totally out of date...didn't even know that we could keep 6 vets or that we could protect 4 players/week.

Given this flexibility, who do you see as potential guys we stash on there with a real possibility of needing at some point this year? I could see any (not all) of these guys getting past waivers, but also being valuable if called up:

Weaver, Jackson, Malveaux at DE
Wilson, McDowell at DT
Fields, Lee at LB
Moffat, Redwine, LeCounte at S

Stanton at FB
Kelly at RB
Davis, Natson at WR/KR\
Franks at TE
Gosset, Forbes, Senot at OL
Lauletta at QB

There is no possible way we waive LeCounte. His big question, going into the draft, was whether or not he had healed up from the car accident. He showed that he has, and he also showed great ability in the 2 preseason games. If he was waived, he would be claimed, and I would bet by multiple teams.

That and he is a bit undersized for a cover safety. He seems to play the part well however.

Priefer also said that Hodge holds a super important position on special teams.

Can DPJ still return kicks? yes.

( D'Ernest Johnson, and the two fullbacks prolly fighting for one spot, on the initial.) - don't fret, a 2nd spot, to bring one more back the day after, after they'll put prolly, Nick Harris and A. Schwartz on the IR-designated.

10 OL, including Harris, because he has to be on the initial, for 24 hours before they can put him on IR-designated, (unless he's healthy, is he healthy?)
2 QB's
3 TE's then,
WR. So, Anthony Schwartz can't play, has a hurt hamstring, which means he'll secure a roster spot; (loopy ) because they can't use him, in the short term, (I'm guessing),

So they can move him 24 hours later to IR- designated.
So 5 WR, only 5 wr, including Schwartz, that means
( Higgins, Hodge, Natson ,) are fighting for 1 spot, and one spot to return 24 hours later, if avail. while they put Schwartz on IR-designated
The Problem is, None of them will clear waivers and we'll lose a good player returning.

So that's 24... including Felton as a Rb, 9 healthy OL, but 10 including Nick Harris who will go to Ir,
3 TEs..., 3 (Rbs or Fbs) not named Felton.
and 5 Wr's - ( 4 Wr's not named Schwartz or D.Davis suspended, and not including Felton who = rb).

24 spots for offense, initial day, leaves 1 spot to scour the waiver wire for a TE-4 or healthy CB.

Now a day later, Nick Harris and Anthony Schwartz probably go to the IR-designated for return, leaving 22, which allows the return of 2 spots,
1( A fullback or D'Ernest) or a new guy.
2. ( A receiver Higgins, Hodge, or Natson, or a new guy.)
Still leaving the offense at 24 spots, plus:
+ Davion Davis wr suspended 2 weeks
+ Nick Harris Center, on IR designated to return and
+ Anthony Schwartz WR,on IR designated to return.

2 QB's 9 OL, 3 TEs and a spot to increase to 25, open for anyone they see and like, like a new TE, or a DB or other.

Next, cut the Defense to 25, or 24, or 26.

------------
Cut the defense across the DL to 10. I don't know how they cut the DL to 10 but I think, Curtis Weaver, Porter Gustin, Joe Jackson, Marvin Wilson, Jordan Elliott, and Sheldon day, are fighting for, 3 spots. 6 for 3. Actually 2 spots, if 6 for 2 means they can save both of, and thus the lesser of Higgins and Hodge, or, Natson from trying to clear waivers. It's not going to be easy.

Cut the linebacker to 5, plus 2.) 5 guys not named Jacob Phllips or Tony Fields II. then 24 hours later, Jacob Phillips and Tony Fields II probably will go on IR- designated for return.
But for now, for day initial, 24 hours, that's 7 Lb's and 10 Dl, that is 17.

That leaves 9, 5 cornerbacks, 4 safeties, but 24 hours later after Phillips and Fields go on IR-designated,
(they'll go from 26 defense the initial 53.)
(if they need that to be 25, it's a DL cut to 9 from 10, based on when or if the Offense adds anyone.)

24 hours later, 26 on defense shrinks to 24 on defense with Phillips and Fields on IR=designated, allowing the to bring back one Corner, One Safety, or TE-4, or other combination that totals 2.

And I think 48 hours later after the dust settles, if they still have 10 on DL, they'll try to move one of those to the PS at that point anyway, if they feel they need another Corner,

That's my guess at the initial 53, and then the next 53, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were a new face at up to all 3 of TE-4, and New Safety, and New Cornerback, off of waivers or even trades, before Game ones kickoff.
Just speculating.

LeCounte is making the team. You can count on that!

Fixed it for you

He should, but this time of year you never know. Stefanski and Berry might decide they need 4 TE's and 2 FB's.

With the way the practice squad rules are now, that's not really as big of an issue. The biggest issue is getting the players you want to the practice squad without them being claimed. You have to keep the guys most likely to get claimed on your 53.

I would think teams always do that. To me that means they make the team. I wouldn't want to keep anybody on the PS who might not be an attractive waiver claim

One of the rules have changed that actually allow you to stash four players on your practice squad that other teams can not poach.

2020 NFL practice squad rules: Everything you need to know

The biggest change to the practice squads this season is the number of players allowed on them. It has increased to 16 players after previously being maxed out at 10. Of the 16 players, six of them can have unlimited years of service time.

The next two rules pertain to teams signing players off other team’s practice squads. Teams can protect four players on their practice squad from signing with other teams if they submit them by the Tuesday before games. The rest of the 12 players are up for grabs, but cannot be signed to another team’s practice squad.

Lastly, practice squad players can be promoted to the 53-man roster twice before they have to go on waivers upon re-joining the practice squad.

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/06...-new-york-jets/

There's more information about the practice squad at the link.

I knew they could, but thanks for the details. I didn't recall those.

Analysis: Cuts are coming, so here’s a final prediction of the 53-man roster

https://www.brownszone.com/2021/08/29/an...-53-man-roster/


After a month of practices and three preseason games — all wins — the decisions are due.

Second-year general manager Andrew Berry has until Tuesday at 4 p.m. to cut the roster from 80 to the regular-season limit of 53.

The top of the roster is set, but there’s a degree of uncertainty over the final handful of spots. Berry could also pull off a trade or two if another team calls about someone on the bubble.

The defensive line is the most difficult position to predict. Berry could keep four or five at end and tackle, and there are plenty of contenders for the backup spots.

Injuries also provide a challenge.

A player must be on the roster at the deadline in order to be brought back from injured reserve during the season. The most obvious case is second-year linebacker Jacob Phillips, whose biceps tore this month. If the Browns want to give him a shot to return toward the end of this year, he must occupy one of the 53 roster spots.

Safety Grant Delpit could also head to IR for the minimum three-game stay if he won’t be ready for the opener following a lingering hamstring injury.

Berry might be able to save a couple of spots at the bottom of the roster by cutting vested veterans with the plan of bringing them back. They don’t have to clear waivers and would be eligible to re-sign.

The moves are expected to start Monday, so here’s the final attempt at predicting the 53-man roster.

Of course, it will be tweaked in the days to follow with waiver claims, but we’re aiming for the 53 on the team when the deadline hits Tuesday.


QUARTERBACK (2): Baker Mayfield, Case Keenum

Note: The hope is to re-sign Kyle Lauletta to the 16-man practice squad.

RUNNING BACK (4): Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt, D’Ernest Johnson, Demetric Felton

Note: Felton could count as a receiver, and he’ll also open the year as the No. 1 kick returner.

FULLBACK (1): Andy Janovich

Note: Johnny Stanton IV should return on the practice squad as a fullback/tight end hybrid.

WIDE RECEIVER (6): Odell Beckham Jr., Jarvis Landry, Donovan Peoples-Jones, Rashard Higgins, Anthony Schwartz, KhaDarel Hodge

Notes: Returner JoJo Natson is the odd man out. Hodge could join him, but he carries a lot of value on offense and special teams and had two preseason touchdown catches.

TIGHT END (3): Austin Hooper, David Njoku, Harrison Bryant

Note: Expect a true tight end to end up on the practice squad. Coach Kevin Stefanski won’t want to be caught short-handed.

OFFENSIVE LINE (9): Jedrick Wills Jr., Joel Bitonio, JC Tretter, Wyatt Teller, Jack Conklin, Chris Hubbard, James Hudson III, Nick Harris, Blake Hance

Notes: Hance takes the final spot over Michael Dunn, who’s been out with a back injury. Hubbard could be cut and re-signed to temporarily open a spot.

DEFENSIVE END (4): Myles Garrett, Jadeveon Clowney, Takkarist McKinley, Joe Jackson

Note: Cameron Malveaux or Porter Gustin could stick as a fifth end, but I’m going with five tackles.

DEFENSIVE TACKLE (5): Malik Jackson, Andrew Billings, Jordan Elliott, Tommy Togiai, Malik McDowell

Notes: The Browns can’t afford to expose McDowell to the waiver wire, especially after an impressive performance Sunday night vs. the Falcons. Veteran Sheldon Day might bump Elliott or Togiai, but they’re recent draft picks.

LINEBACKER (6): Anthony Walker Jr., Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Jacob Phillips, Mack Wilson, Sione Takitaki, Malcolm Smith

Notes: Phillips and his torn biceps will head to injured reserve Wednesday with the hope he can return late in the season. Elijah Lee could then be re-signed. Rookie Tony Fields II makes it to the practice squad after being sidelined for nearly all of camp with a foot injury.

CORNERBACK (6): Denzel Ward, Greg Newsome II, Greedy Williams, Troy Hill, A.J. Green, M.J. Stewart Jr.

Note: Stewart’s ability to play safety earns him a spot.

SAFETY (4): John Johnson III, Grant Delpit, Ronnie Harrison Jr., Richard LeCounte III

Note: Delpit’s hamstring injury could give Sheldrick Redwine or Jovante Moffatt a reprieve.

KICKER (1): Chase McLaughlin

Note: Berry may feel the need to find someone else after McLaughlin badly missed an extra point wide right and missed a 56-yard field goal off the crossbar vs. the Falcons.

PUNTER (1): Jamie Gillan

LONG SNAPPER (1): Charley Hughlett

Hubbard could start somewhere with a weaker Oline group. Not so sure cutting him would be good. Sucks to lose Gustin too.

Some other things are iffy BUT no way do we go into game 1 with this kicker.

I hope we find a way to keep Michael Dunn as a backup G

Hope we can hang on to the WR Davis. He really shined in camp and pre-season. Same goes for running back Kelly. But they'll do fine in the league I'm pretty sure.

Hodge might get cut but man is that kid good. Just look at that TD catch...that is the rule not the exception. He is big and creates a miss match with slot CBs he is too good to let go as somebody in our division will pick him up and burn us.

From what I saw this preseason, both #87 and #86 showed reliable hands, the ability to block, athleticism and physicality. Harrison Bryant does not bring those things to the table. I keep one of those guys instead, probably #87.

I also keep Day over Billings.

IMO.

I thing Billings will get cut. ( or should be)

Does Janovich offer more than Stanton?

Not sure we need a kicker. I don't hold a 56 yard attempt off the crossbar as a bad miss. I must have missed the missed PAT. To me, a missed PAT isn't a reason to go wild and think we need a new kicker.

Franks looks s to be a solid TE addition. If he gets cut, i hope we can get him back.

Just a shout out to a guy who SHOULD make the team, but won't.... rb John Kelly. A team couldn't go wrong if you had to put him in to service and give him the rock.

I did find it interesting that Kelly and Johnson were both playing late against the same competition. Maybe the Browns are getting some sniffs from other teams for Johnson in trade?

j/c:

My undoubtedly incorrect stab at the 53-man roster.

QB- Mayfield, Keenum (2)
RB- Chubb, Hunt, Johnson, Felton (4)
FB- One of Stanton/Janovich-don't care which (1)
WR- Beckham, Landry, Higgins, Peoples-Jones, Schwartz, Natson (6)
TE- Hooper, Njoku, Bryant, Franks (4)
OL- Wills, Bitonio, Tretter, Teller, Conklin, Hubbard, Harris, Hudson, Hance (9)

DE- Garrett, Clowney, McKinley, Gustin (4)
DT- Jackson, Billings, McDowell, Elliot, Togai (5)
LB- Walker, Phillips, JOK, Fields, Takitaki (5)
CB- Ward, Newsome, Williams, Hill, Green, Stewart (6)
S- Johnson, Delpit, Harrison, LeCounte (4)

ST- Houghlett, McLaughlin, Gillan (3)

Players that could flip-flop:
Weaver over Gustin.
Smith or Wilson in place of Takitaki. One might come back once Phillips is placed on IR after roster is set.
Franks is the biggest wild card for me. I could see him not making the team for another LB on the roster. But I really liked his play over the preseason and his hustle.

And in general, I went light on the LB corp. by one player. Based on the packages and LB usage, I think it might not warrant the need to have as many as 6 six like some journalists are projecting. I'd use those rosters spots elsewhere and maybe stash some LB on the practice squad if possible.

One extremely hot take would be a Harrison Bryant cut. I wouldn't be too shocked if it happened.

Hance shows up no matter where they line him up .. The case for keeping Harris as a center only on the roster ??

I believe Phillips will be going on IR. That will open up a roster spot which I would say Wilson.

He will. And we need to keep Phillips on the roster initially in order to (1) make a move and bring another LB back, and (2) possibly bring Phillps back later on in the season.

Agreed. I thought Hance looked better than N Harris. JMO.

I also think Dunn is a lock to make the 53.

Both Hance and Dunn can play center. I don’t see a reason why Harris should be on the team.

Sure it's simple. Not saying it's one way or the other but it's a simple case.

In 2020 Nick Harris was a top 8 OL on the Browns and the backup Center and nothing has changed.

Evidenced. (Some may not admit or see what I seemed to see, or want to admit it, or totally disagree with my next thought but).

The Backup OL got pushed around in 2 games or more in preseason, including when Hance was in the game. There was a ton of pressure, from the middle vs. the Giants,
The OL even fell in on itself, collapsed during a whole student body right play last night, a run play,
and the one who stumbled was on the inside of that OL, which caused a domino of guys on the ground,
and a dangerous situation where injuries often occur.

I don't think Nick Harris was in on that play, unknown.
But it comes down to,
Ability to anchor, Nick Harris, along with the starters and Lamm and Hubbard, were the top 8 OL, which all showed abilities to play without concerns, in 2020, and nothing has changed.
Everyone else they've tried to prop up, just isn't there yet, whether it's one guy or 15 guys, it's a commonality.

I wonder if Berry will get creative when it comes to Billings. We save no cap space if he is cut, but if we trade him, we save $3M that we can use to resign some of our young players.

But Billings has negative trade value, so we'd have to do some like "Hey Jags, we'll trade Billings and our 2023 5th round pick for your 2022 7th round pick...sound like a deal?"

Not sure what the terms we have to be, but I'd trust Berry to make a good deal.

Is Dunn hurt ?

Yes

Ok , like what is his injury ?

I think he has a hurt back.

Got it , thanks .. Didn't think he was involved in the Falcons game.

It's rarely discussed if it's different and therefore I always assume, that all of those players on the PS have to clear waivers the first time when the season starts before being signed to the practice squad.

Is that incorrect?

One of the attractions of Billings was his supposed run-stopping and block-eating. He was what was allowing us to go "big" if a team wanted to try to maul us, but if he isn't living up to that, we've kinda lost a major capability and we aren't going to match up well with beefier OLines, again.

I agree that if he isn't in the plans, we need to try to trade him - a conditional 7th is better than nothing at all.

I do hope that we're just seeing something that we shouldn't be worried about, though. Like, has he been told to just go easy and not get hurt? Is it just that we're not really scheming anything and we're just seeing the results of that, somehow?

Can we trade him for Sheldon Richardson, lol??

Lions cut wr Breshard Perriman. Didn't Baker throw him a couple touchdowns in history? Oh well, worth a mention won't amount to anything.

I thought Perriman did a pretty good job while here.. We signed him to a contract but once we traded for OBJ, he wanted out.. we let him out.

If we needed him, sure,, I'd think about it.. But we don't.

Just a comment not necessarily aimed just at you, but doesn't this front office seem vastly superior at bringing in talent across the board over any we have seen in....seems like forever.

I don't know what kind of crystal ball Berry is using, or what sort of tea leaves the people in his support are reading, but it's working!

It helps that everyone in the organization is on the same page. Andrew Berry knows what Kevin Stefanski wants/needs because they don’t hate each other.

And there doesn't seem to be any large egos getting in the way worrying about who looks like a star coach or GM.

I’ve read where this group also involves and listens to Depo a lot more than previous groups. His particular specialty is risk assessment, which if you think about it, is what searching for good players is all about. To be non ego driven and also smart… that’s the key.

No doubt that Depo behind the scenes is a big part of things.

We know that Depo is largely responsible for bringing in Stefanski.

There is no way of knowing for certain, but I am convinced he is also largely responsible for getting Haslam to bring Berry back from Philly.

I am thankful for Haslam listening to Depo and keeping him on board when Dorsey was brought in to replace Sashi. I don't think it's any secret that Dorsey had no use for Depo and Depo would have been gone had Haslam more or less told Dorsey that Depo works for him on special projects.

j/c:

If he were waived he 100% would've been claimed and the FO couldn't have that. He shouldn't be punished for what was reported to be a legit serious personal issue, but I doubt anyone is content with the manner in which he made the roster over some of his colleagues.

This makes sense for our practice squad. Mullens started games in our offense with the 49ers.

It does.

Maybe it is just me, but I for one would keep 3 qb's on the active unless we protect the QB on the practice squad each week.

j/c:

Comment:

Answer:

Bingo. The best team pressures the QB much less than 50% of the time. What happens the rest of the time? Guys are in coverage. If you can cover well that gives extra time for the rushers to get to the QB.

I remember several years ago, when he first spot started for the niners...he looked really good, then he's fallen off since. Hopefully he can get his juice back if we ever need him.

Could be... or, maybe it's simply a matter of looking at what avenues are available to you to accomplish the objective and formulating the strategy that makes the best use of what's available. You have two avenues to add players: Draft and Free Agency, and in order to use either, quality players have to be there AND you have to be able to get the ones you want on your roster.

There weren't many young DL in free agency and we missed on all there were (I believe most stayed with their current teams). We landed a few top-end, young DBs, though. The Draft didn't have much DL that was higher value than the DB we got in round 1 and they were gone before we picked, then round 2 was spent snagging JOK when he fell; that means that round 3 was the earliest we could get a DLine and it was a weak class for them.

Also, DLine has a longer shelf life than DB when it comes to dropoff in play as they age. DBs need to be fast and nimble and those attributes decline quickly as you age. DLine just needs power and explosiveness and that can stay with you for a long while.

and if you don't invest in the front 7, which we really haven't much in comparison, who's going to stop the run, which to me is more dangerous and leads to more issues

This is probably the area I have the most concern with at this time. Stopping the run.

If that is our biggest area of concern then we are doing pretty well.

We are doing pretty well. But maybe you should look at how many times we ave been burned by the run for a long time now. How teams have used it to keep the ball out of our hands and control the clock.

Stopping the run actually is a big area of concern. My hope is that we will use a player like JOK to help in that department with his speed. But if you look at the DL we could certainly use more in the way of run stoppers.

No NFL team has stellar units all over the field. Each team has their weak spots. When you combine the salary cap along with available talent, which as PPE brought up earlier wasn't really strong in either the draft nor the FA signing period at DL talent, it's just the way things work out sometimes.

I love our roster and the talent we have. I'm just not so much of a cheerleader that I can't step back and actually be objective.

Lol.

If we drafted JOK for traditional run-stopping ability, I think we did this all wrong. His main thing is coverage, IMO.

His size could make him a liability taking on OL in the second level. Certainly there will be blitzes where his speed will allow him to make plays, but if there is anything re: run stopping where he will be an asset, it is on the outside......like QB runs or anything ad hoc. Like spying L. Jackson, J.Burrow.

I actually think we are pretty much in agreement here. When opposing teams try to run up the middle our DL could certainly use some help in that department.

As I said, i think circumstances played into that. By the time the draft dropped down to us, there really wasn't much value at the DL position and there wasn't much out there on the FA market either. So it is what it is.

And as you posted, I doubt JOK is going to do much run stopping up the middle at least on any regular basis. But that doesn't mean I can't "hope". I think he will certainly be used in both a traditional type LB'er role and a SS role. He has the talent to do both well.

JMHO, our kicker concerns me, Bears just cut Brian Johnson out of Virginia Tech- looked good banging a 54 yd down middle....I'd bring all comers in for a kickoff-- pressure, best guy sticks...
go Browns Have kickoff in stadium!!!

I think the defense has to be evaluated as a whole and by unit parts.

Billings and Malik Jackson are veteran interior players.

KS mentioned that Malik McDowell can play end.

Myles, Clowney and MM can loop or play inside.

At the second level Walker was brought here to tackle and be the captain. On down and distance Taki and or Wilson can be brought in to support against the run.

JOK will be a blitzer and coverage linebacker.

The backend should not have to cover more than 2.5 seconds on passing downs.

On run base teams we have other options to add to the box including Harrison.

So Woods has many options on down and distance.

I don't think we are.



I'd look to Anthony Walker* more than JOK in this regard. Also, more so coverage but has size/speed to attack the run game.

*perhaps the most underrated move of 2021, IMO. Kinda surprised it was a one-year deal, but that's the FO way as of late w. veterans.

Check your messages, I finally saw it and responded.

Guys, we sure have our pick of some kickers- some we know I'd say off the bat- Folk, Pats, just released him....old, but reliable.
Others, Verity out of Balt., Seye Carolina, Seibert, Cinc,, Gonzalez, Ari., Molson, GB, Badgley, LA, and like I mentioned Folk, Pats.....I liked Johnson, Bears Too.

I don't trust a kicker released by 5 teams.....yet, I guess we will be in that boat....GO Browns!!

JOK certainly won't be able to man up against DL players one on one. I think he will be used more to split the gaps. And he's still a bit raw so even that is going to take some time.

....Ok.

If I could make the roster better in 3 moves.
Dunn to IR and get Roche from the steelers via the waiver wire.
Jacob Phillips to IR, and bring in Cam Newton as back up quarterback.
If Keenum becomes expendable waive him and bring in "somebody" maybe they are familiar with for 2 weeks;(Maybe JoJo Natson, maybe somebody drummed up.)

Then in 2 weeks when Davion Davis comes off of suspension make a choice between "somebody" and Davion Davis on the active roster.

How Much did a healthy Jacob Phillips, before the bicep injury, figure in to the Browns plans going into the season?

JMHO, dislike all your moves, especially Cam Newton....Go Browns!!

Well Newton could land on a team that has no QB's there really. Like now that Watson could be traded out and Newton could possibly be in Houston if Tyrod Taylor, God love him, does not workout.

General: season roster, comment:

1-800-cornerback-Oh
Pick up the phone the call is free!
Play it safe! Corner-back-Oh!

800 C-O-R-N-E-R-BACK!