Anyone else extremely worried about the Baker-OBJ connection and how it will affect the offense and the Browns season in general?

Here is my worry. Chemistry and continuity. It appears OBJ is going to be kept "on-ice" the entire training camp and then just appear on the field week one. So the assumption is he is just some part that can be plugged into this complex machine that is an NFL offense at the last minute and everything will go smoothly. Or that his supreme talent will override the continuity that Baker has been building and maintaining with Higgins or DPJ. I don't know that is correct. Let's face it, despite a great o-line, against NFL defenses Baker will be pushed off his spot and also receivers will need to adjust to break free. In those not so uncommon situations Baker needs to make correct, split second decisions, I believe through instinctual connections with the receivers. This is not to mention the interplay between receivers in the passing game and RBs knowing how receivers block in the running game, which could all be thrown off by the lack of practice together. This is not all hypothetical, it is what has happened in practice. Per last year, and also in most of Bakers Cleveland career, that is he plays better when loose, comfortable, and in control, rather than when the best raw talent is on the field.

This is not even to mention the "OBJ star" factor, meaning the idea that Baker does not let the game come to him when OBJ is on the field, but rather has some ulterior motive, namely that he needs to feed OBJ. Don't know if that's true or not, but it could only compound the former proposed issue.

None of this is an attack on OBJ, he only does what the coaches allow him to do. More a question about the wisdom of the coaching staff thinking a key part of the offense can be plugged in last minute and do better than the "less" talented guys (DPJ, Higgins) bringing the lunch pail everyday and building an on-field relationship with Baker and the team.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, and the OBJ-Baker and OBJ-Browns offense connections will suddenly become magical.

Im not should be just fine... if not we got plenty of other weapons

It’s a big concern to see how they can connect. There’s no secret that Baker has had way more success without OBJ. You know the coaching staff will do everything possible to make things work … it’s the story line of the offense this season IMO

I definitely agree with this thought, however most think about it like its isolated in some way, meaning Browns still win but they score 7 less points if it doesn't work.

I'm worried we go from a very good to an average offense. a la Cincinnati game, obj goes out and the offense catches fire

I'm not worried at all, actually. They have deliberately been getting a TON of 1-on-1 work this summer.

In fact, I think Week 1 just might be a "Holy Crap!" kinda week... ya know, like the Eli to OBJ days, but with a QB with an arm throwing the ball.

I disagree with the premise that Odell and Baker can't and don't fit together in the Browns offense. I could try to explain it but Bret Kollmann does it much better and more thoroughly than I can.

Youtube would not allow this video to be embedded in my post. So take the 17 minutes to view the video in its entirety.

The OBJ narrative makes no sense.

Nothing to see here.

Baker and Odell will be quite fine.

I agree with you....JMHO, coach SKI is real, he talks up the guys, yet doesn't sugar coat stuff- I think IF OBJ acts out, the other leaders on team will talk to him AND I think he'd honor SKI and them. I don't think Bake in his second season will think he has to force the ball the OBJ- we have LOTS of weapons and I think all will go well IF we win. Losing could cause some issue, yet I don't see that happening....GO Browns!!!

Great question.

I think AVP's presser today is excellent in answering your question.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/van-pelt-browns-offense-has-ability-to-punch-and-counter-punch

I was worried last year, but not this year. I think both Baker and OBJ found out that the ball needs spread around. And as luck would have it, we got plenty to spread it around to. I'm very confident in Kevin Stefanski and his planning

Very excited that Baker is Mature beyond his years.. I think they'll figure it out..

I was just going to share this

I think it's possible that the Baker-OBJ connection could get off to a rocky start. I choose to believe it won't be as bad as the beginning of last year because much of the offense's struggles were Baker getting comfy with the O and 'settling into' operating the O. I also think, at this point, he's gotta realize that he's at his best when he's distributing. I've noticed him kinda "remember" that he's got Landry out there and will feed him like 3-4 passes in a row after him being quiet for whole quarters, but Baker's best games are when he's looking in everyone's direction.

Oh yeah, and we have these other guys called Chubb and Hunt.

Baker-to-OBJ might take a minute or two to really mesh once the season starts, but it won't hold back the O.

Where is OBJ being kept on ice? There is plenty of footage of him working with Baker in practice. You state this as if OBJ is not in the building and is off working alone.

IMO, it wasn't a case of OBJ needing to be the center of Baker's world last year, causing the offense to stumble. I think it was more the growth that happened to Baker after OBJ went down. IMO, it was just coincidence, and nothing else.

Baker improved in many ways after OBJ's injury. Thinking he improved because OBJ wasn't there is foolish.

A few thoughts on this subject , and I do think about it from time to time (full disclosure: I really didn’t want OBJ when we traded for him). Most of this is deductive reasoning.

1. I believe that even OBJ could see that our O was a different animal after he got hurt. So that may have humbled him (I’m not even sure he needed to be humbled, so to speak, and no one can be sure his absence was the factor that ignited our O).

2. Baker is now in his fourth season. With his success and growing maturity and self-assuredness, by this time Bake should feel no obligation to force the ball to Beckham.

3. OBJ was a star in NY, but it’s possible he’s tired of that, and would rather win. (I personally feel he’d do some heavy damage as a slot receiver)

I wouldn’t feel bad if we traded him, and we might get some serious return for him. I wouldn’t be unhappy if we kept him, considering his talent. I do believe that we don’t need him.

They shouldn't trade OBJ just bench him.
I'm listening to a game reaction after the week 1 38-6 loss to the Ravens in 2020.
The consensus is clear after that one loss, they should bench OBJ, and Baker is never going to be a quarterback, there is no connection.

So, after this time, back to reality, could we consider,
that OBJ doesn't excel at being a team player who could just do his job and not make it all about him personally.

The comment was made that everytime Odell makes a catch he takes two steps backwards, why is he trying to more than finish the play.
Odell is not faster than the others in the NFL
Is OBJ a player living off the reputation of the past.

What does OBJ have to prove, to prove he can play in the NFL? nothing.
But
What does OBJ have left in the tank? He's Excellent.
Excellent on 3 catches a game?

If the Browns go into the season, and
and OBJ, and Hodge are two of the targets and the offense looks like a dumpster fire, then they'll have to change the targets.

And listening to this 38-6 loss review after the Ravens opener, Chubb and Hunt both played, and they were saying Hunt looked much better than Chubb.

Anything can be a reaction, They need to find a way to get the ball to their playmakers.

If this Browns defense gets run all over, it won't matter how good the Browns runners all because they'll be abandoning the run trying to play catch up even in the first half.

Fundamentals.
Turnovers! Pass protection.
The offensive line in the pre season has looked sloppy.

if the Browns go into the regular season and the Starting OL is rusty, they won't be able to pass protect.

At some point we have to ask, if OBJ is still special.
and if special receivers can get 6 catches a game.


And if the Browns can't get 6 passes complete to OBJ, what gives.
And why does it matter? Should OBJ be a #1 option, or is he a #2 option.

OBJ is going to be facing a #1 corner, a whole defense is going to be gplaning to shut him down the whole day.

Can we get a coach who can figure out how to get the ball to this guy, beyond the line of scrimmage.


If Baker Mayfield can zing the ball in there, that 99 mph fastball, and OBJ doesn't come down with it, then:
is it, that Baker and OBJ don't practice enough reps.

If Odell Beckham is going to get, #1 defender coveage,
but if he is a superstar, can he still get separation?

Is OBJ only good on a 40 yard downfield pass, or is he Never good on a 40 yard downfield pass.
What I mean is,

Can OBJ put in the lunch pail, work-a-day catch, and get out of bounds, the rhythm of stacking completions, without everything, every touch trying to be some highlight reel that eventually messes up the flow.

Is OBJs best year 5 years ago?

Can the Baker and OBJ relationship, be strong enough that if there is one really bad game, that it doesn't end in pouting, giving up, or finger pointing.

Can the Browns just focus on the fundamentals. Can this team match the success of last year.
How are the coaches going to design things so that Odell can be one of the players who can be put in a position to be open in space.

Is Beckham motivated to prove, he's going to have ,you know, 50 yards per game. 100?

Can OBJ, work off the Tight ends and other Wideouts, where it ends up that OBJ is in the favorable open position.

How do the Browns offensive players come together as a team, if we're talking about the starters.

J hope you are wrong, too. We know OBJ has been working hard, along with BM. Training camp counts for a lot. Protecting OBJ coming back from injury is a huge priority. Some of your worries and concerns may be legitimate IF they materialize, but right now it is mere speculation.

I believe the team, especially these two will be fine, and there will be enough success to go around.

Thanks for this

Count me as in the camp that Baker began mastering the offense COINCIDENTALLY with OBJ's injury last year. This coaching staff is too smart to allow Baker to be receiver dependent on one guy.

I saw somewhere that AVP says Baker's footwork is vastly improved from this time last year. That, plus heavy work with OBJ in the off-season and on the side in practices, obvious attention to physical conditioning, consistency in offense from one year to the next, and consistency in personnel...strap in guys!

I think there is a far more logical explanation for what we saw last year than "Once OBJ was out of the line up the O caught on fire".

Sure, one can make the correlation but I think an even bigger factor was at play here. When a QB is unsure and in the beginning stages of learning a new O, he will often try to find a security blanket with which to depend on. That's exactly what we saw.

As time passes that QB becomes more comfortable in that offense and as such performs better. The stark contrast of what we saw in the first half of the season verses the last half of the season was far more about Baker becoming comfortable within the new system than having anything to do with OBJ being on or off the field.

Now did OBJ being injured cause Baker to be forced to spread the ball out more? Probably so. But it's the QB who makes the decision where to throw the ball, not the WR. And now that Baker is more comfortable and confident with his other WR's, I don't see where OBJ plays a role in Baker's performance.

Yes, Baker will take the hometown discount, as well as Jarvis and Odell.

This core isn’t going anywhere.

I would only be scared if OBJ or someone like OBJ weren't on the Browns. The issue was and is that Baker wasn't ready to run the offense in the 1st half of the season nor was the coaching staff. A leftover from Covid we are so past that now. Baker is past it and so is the coaching staff.

What OBJ brings to the Browns is someone that can take the top off, who is quick and who has a top end speed that most if not all of the corners in the NFL can't handle without plenty of help. These issues at this juncture are or will be laid to rest. The connection between OBJ under the coaching of Ski and company will get these 2 on the same page. The adjustments will be choreographed and OBJ and Baker will work to predetermined adjustments. It will give Baker the confidence to let it fly. The biggest part of the connection issues between OBJ and Baker were that nobody laid out the ground rules for adjustments and how and where they would be made. That at this point I believe has been laid to rest.

OBJ will change every aspect of the Browns offense even if he doesn't catch a single ball. Last season when we played the Chief's they played man press coverage and that allowed the Chiefs to blitz and to load up to take away Chubb and Hunt. With OBJ in the fold I dare them to give man press coverage another go will burn them repeatedly. OBJ changes all of that it means pulling out another safety to help contain OBJ over the top it means one less safety to man up on our TE's who if we had game planned more for a TE with dynamic skills like say Njoku who LB can't cover and who towers over safeties and whom is easily one of the most athletic TE in the NFL we create all sorts of matchup issues for anyone including the Chiefs.

What we become is the Chiefs with Hunt and Kelso with a much better backend. In effect we will beat them at their own game, because wait for it we are far more talented then they are. That is plain to see so fear no there is nothing to fear.

Two things are going to happen this season, because I said so... Hahaha Njoku and OBJ are going to shine and that will make Chubb and Hunt more deadly then ever. I have no fear and welcome what I have no reason not to believe will happen. Forget about everything that has transpired between OBJ and Baker to date and as far as that goes forget about everything to do with Njoku that combo is going to light the league on fire.

Add in a healthy dose of Landry, Hopper, DPJ, and Higgins and you shouldn't be in fear of things not working out you should be salivating at what these guys are going to do to other teams.

Enjoy the ride guys the days of us being outcoached and outplayed are over with. Why ??? Because I said so....Hahaha

What makes you think this? I think the exact opposite.

As usual there not a point you made that I don't agree with.

What I will add is; where is Baker?

He is in charge.

The league has not seen the full Baker.

Josh Allen went to the Bills and has been under the same coaches since.

Baker this year is the first time he is under the same coaches and system. AVP has had a huge impact on Baker. Baker respects him. And for all Baker has gone through. He really needed that.

AVP is a former qb. He is a very good teacher. He came in and saw what had to change in Baker.

It is all about getting your feet and eyes in sync to route steps. He changed his footwork. The today Baker under center is not the Baker from the past.

Last year after the break. KS and AVP adjusted. What we saw after that point was a glance of what will be.

OBJ is a talented receiver. So is a healthy Jarvis. They are parts of the offense. As is the rest of the backfield and TE's.

It is all about Baker as the trigger. He is the one making decisions. First he had to get right mechanically. Check. Then he had to gain confidence in the new mechanics. Check. Then he had to trust his throws. Get the ball to the right guy at the right time.

Starting since the loss to KC. It is all about Baker being ready to lead the team. He came in physically ready. But more importantly he is refining where he left off.

Odell and Jarvis will both make big plays.

But this year is really where Baker ends anyones doubts.

It was even reported he won't
https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/...b4-2afec343a43e

Based on what I have seen I have no reason to doubt for a moment that is exactly what will happen Bone well said as usual I agree.

This team is stacked and Baker is ready you can bet on it.

Found a kick returner:

Against the Blazers...js

Stumbled across a little "food for thought" today during the grueling, never ending search for answers as to why this just doesn't seem to work.

Over the past three years I've searched in other places... "Does OBJ freelance too much? Is Baker forcing the ball to him? Does OBJ know the playbook?" etc, etc...

First I'll preface with my initial thoughts as there has yet to be anything to dispel them... OBJ is a big-play receiver, he does special things with the ball in his hands, the real problem seems to be getting the ball in his hands (which in and of itself makes no sense as he has some of the best hands in the NFL).

I'm no football guru, but from the beginning I've questioned "the window". In my eyes, the best receivers throw the window wide open and a QB has a pretty good idea of how open that window is... and how long before it closes. With OBJ, that window seems to open in short bursts and closes pretty quickly... His routes are nowhere near as fluid as elite receivers, the term that always comes to mind is "herky-jerky". I think that makes it really hard for a QB to have trust and confidence.


And the screams from the aisles are always "Yeah, but Eli Manning had no problems, he was great with the Giants!"

Was he? And what did that mean for the Giants?

Second thing first... The Giants averaged five wins all but one season of his tenure. That outlier was an 11-5 season in which their defense gave up more than 24 points once all year.

Was he great? He certainly made a lot of great plays and put up a lot of yards. Personally, I think he was a walking highlight reel that made little difference in the success of his team. He was a lot of fun to watch.


From the beginning with the Browns I've always wondered "why so many targets and so few catches". Never thought to dig very deep before today...

NFL RANKING IN CATCH PERCENTAGE (receptions divided by targets)

Rookie season (2014): 58
2015: 130
2016: 133
2017: 128
2018: 137
2019: 174
2020: 191
2021: 191

First, I don't have access to stats that will tear this down to just WRs, and the top is loaded with TEs, RBs, and players with way fewer targets. But here is Michael Thomas for comparison's sake:

2016: 26
2017: 66
2018: 4
2019: 19
2020: 66

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Drew Brees.


Bottom line: Every season there are at least 15 WRs in the top 50, all catching at least 75% of their passes. Different teams, different QBs, different roles and situations.

OBJ, for his career is at 60.7%. In eight seasons that percentage has only gone up twice from the previous season. He's never cracked the top 50 and his best season (percentage wise) was his rookie year at 70%.


As a disclaimer, I'll say that I love OBJ, I think he is a great "team player" and an asset to any offense. Also, this is not to take away any responsibility from Baker to "be better".

What is more and more evident though is that he his nothing more than a solid NFL WR that just happens to have a penchant for making electric plays. Outside of three seasons early in his career, with a TON of targets, the numbers don't really support the "gotta get the ball in his hands" narrative... because evidence shows that the task is not really as easy as it may seem. I think it's fair to say that the Browns have already figured that out, now the fans need to follow suit.

U must have missed the Dallas game last year … he can do things others can’t!

Odell was a top 3 WR in the league in every ones opinion before coming here … i have no clue what’s wrong here and why his production is basically non existent this year other than he’s on a team now that doesn’t need him to carry it like he was in NY …

This is a prime example of why STATS ARE FOR LOSERS … pulling out one stat and using it as the be all end all to prove your point witch in this case is NONSENSE!

With that said his injuries very well could have taken a toll on him and he isn’t what he used to be physically … if that’s the case everyone in our Org lied to us about how great he looked since the start of camp ….

Great post! And done without poking fingers and making accusations.

I think your assessment is spot-on. It's no one's "fault"...it just is-what-it-is. They can BOTH do better...and it's been that way since they have been together.

How can Baker connect with Higgins and DPJ and not OBJ? Maybe it's just one of those things that can't be figured out?

Nah, I saw the Dallas game. He took over that game. So did TE Dawson Knox Sunday night with the Bills.

These stats are no "be all end all", they're just proof that over eight seasons and over 800+ targets it's not really that easy to "gotta get the ball in his hands". Nothing more, nothing less.

I think that is the entire intention of his post.. yes, he comes with a big reputation but is it warranted or is it largely based on some spectacular highlight real catches that he has made?

So he can do some things that other guys can't (I don't really agree with that, but let's go with it).... Jerry Rice wasn't Jerry Rice because he could do spectacular things other guys can't... he was Jerry Rice because he did all the stuff a great WR is supposed to do, all the time. He didn't disappear for 3 quarters and then show up with a phenomenal 1 handed catch over his head, then strut around like he accomplished something. I'm not an OBJ hater, I like the guy, I hope we get it figured out, I hope we get our entire passing game figured out.

To make an analogy, some WRs are like Magic Johnson or Larry Bird, they do all of the little things well all the time.. OBJ seems to be more like Vince Carter who shows up once in a while with a tremendously entertaining dunk.... but is not great the rest of the time..

I’m not a big fan of shiny things, never have been …

OBJ when he came here had ELITE burst, acceleration and speed … the plays he made in the Dallas game there are only a few WR’s in the NFL that could have made those plays …

He had/has ELITE physical skills and has had proven success in the past …. There’s a reason why when we made the trade he was a top 3 WR in the league and it wasn’t because he was just a shiny object …

Y’all can disagree all u want … THOSE ARE THE FACTS … just like Bake has the arm to make throws only a few can, OBJ had/has physical skills very few WR’s do … Bake has other issues that don’t allow him to get the most out of his arm talent, why OBJ isn’t making plays is beyond me, I have no clue ….

What i do know is it isn’t because of the BS stat Fate used to prove his point that OBJ is nothing more than a solid NFL WR even though he tried to deny that in his next post … I must have struck a nerve, he’s a good dude and better than that …

Y’all can have the last word … I’m out …

LETS GOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo

LMAO. Man, if we couldn't read the username, who does this sound like??

I know you're packing your toys and going home, but I have no idea what I "tried to deny". Oh well. "Struck a nerve"? Alternate universe type talk there, my friend.

How you keep comparing the Dallas game to what I posted is beyond me... actually it mostly verifies what I posted. I'm talking about "getting the ball in his hands" and you keep bringing up a game where two of his biggest plays had the QB practically handing it to him. As far as the catches... EVERY receiver in the NFL should make those catches every time.

Why don't you watch the highlights and tell me what I'm missing...

I’m not usually the “trade him” guy. With that said, I think an exploration of OBJ’s value is probably wise. I don’t think OBJ is bad and I don’t think he somehow makes Baker a worse QB. He is just not being used and I think that whatever we could get back in a trade is more valuable than the value OBJ brings on the field.

I think you need to give Baker a little more time. He is learning to play with OBJ. OBJ needs to learn to play with the other talent.

Personally, I thought Baker sent a message. Do you want the ball? Catch the ball. Baker took charge.

Anyone opposed to a Beckham trade at this point?

No, not at all.

guess im just trying to figure out how a washed up eli manning can get obj tons of yards and catches, but baker cant.

Eli was not all the way washed at OBJ’s peak.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm

He also knew how to diagnose what was going to happen and get the ball to the correct person.

Conditional 6th? Why not.

We are trying to win games and get in the playoffs...washed up Eli just would chuck it long and see what happens.

Not saying Baker doesn't have issues and need to improve in many respects ... but this is exactly how I remember the Giants and OBJ. Chuck it up and let OBJ go get it. . . . that is a product as much on the play call as it is on the QB... much more so in fact. And Stefanski isn't a "chuck it up there" guy.

thats strange because this narrative supports Rish and others comments that Stefanski took the gunslinger play out of baker and turned him into kirk cousins.

Ski didn't take the gunslinger out of Baker; he just tries to keep him from being that. He wants Baker to be a game manager and pocket passer like Cousins. At least that's what the play calling says to me. And this going for it on 4th all the time crap is crazy. I'd be fine with going for it often, but not every time or even MOST of the time. Going for it on 4th down has cost us a lot of points this year IMHO. I feel the exact same about the Baker-OBJ connection. And I don't blame that on either player, but it doesn't keep happening if it's a nothing burger... However, at some point you have to believe your eyes.

Why is that strange ?

I don't and can't know what Stefanski is coaching and what he wants Baker to be and I am not going to try to pretend to know that. To me it would seem a wrong direction to take the raw QB we saw in his rookie season and the guy that finished last season as an 'elite' NFL QB - and try to make him into Cousins who is a very good QB, but does not posses the same arm talent we saw from Baker. Cousins cannot and will never make some of the throws Baker has made already in his NFL career, including the 66 air yard Hail Mary to end the half vs the Cardinals.

With that said - it definitely seems to me that KS is conservative in nature and might well look at analytics and follow a line of thinking that if you don't turn the ball over you win more often ... and based on that he may well (and to my eyes is) calling plays that do not air it out. People got so caught up in Baker's interceptions at one time - maybe KS did to? Maybe the pendulum has swung too much the other way - we need balance. We need playing to win not playing calls not to lose - we need the first 20 minutes of the Seattle game in 2019 where we were up by 21 (I think?) and then the measured approach where analytics kicks in and says - no, you don't need to score again twice in the last 5 minutes of the half ....

On the interceptions, to me a lot of it is situational ... I like that Baker, chasing a game where he is 2 or more scores down in the 4th Q, is more than happy to sling it around and take risks and does not care about statistics. All he cares about is winning and taking risks WAS something he was willing to do. To me - on 3rd and medium/long - throwing a 45 air pass that gets intercepted without a return is just the same as a punt. Those are different than the bad pass/interception vs Cardinals - or misreads and bad throws. We saw both (risk taking and bad throws) when Freddie was coach and we had all those interceptions, but I think many fans just look at 21 interceptions and don't factor much else into it.

Well, if we see Keenum out there, then we'll get our answer. If KS is coaching and calling plays for Baker to be Cousins (?), then Keenum should be able to come in and play well, right?

What’s the most we could get back for OBJ in a trade? Fourth rounder?

Not worth it. We should try to fix him the rest of the year. IF that doesn't happen let him walk next year and take the comp pick, because it will probably be higher than anything we get in trade. Third rounder I'm thinking. And if we can fix him, offer him a lowball show me contract for next year.

You don’t get a compensatory pick if you cut a guy.

Keep him until he reaches FA? Not sure what happens, but here is this explanation:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-draft-compensatory-pick-projections-for-every-team

Why can't OBJ just make one of those super star one handed grabs for us?

He short armed a decent throw (not good but got 1 hand on it) that in the past he would've gone up to snatch, maybe he's gun shy cuz of all the injuries?

Age and injuries come for all of us sooner or later. I don't think it's a matter of heart, or want, or chemistry, or any such thing. I just think OBJ is done being that guy.

All I know is that as of right now, NY won the hell out of that trade.

It's sad realizing Dave Gettleman got the best of us twice in the matter of a week.

OBJ has officially checked out. He's gonna go somewhere else and look like an all-star

I know how compensatory picks work.

OBJ will not be on the roster next year unless he takes a major pay cut. I’m not sure the pay cut will even be offered to him.

Would the Pack give up a conditional 2nd for him?

No chance.

Today feels like rock bottom with this debate

Our QB/receivers are out of sync. It isn’t just OBJ but clearly everyone. Even the baker/Huggins connection isn’t there like it was.

You can't force a square peg into a round hole and expect it to be a good fit... Ski needs to get past his time with Cousins and rediscover Baker Mayfield, the one from college, rookie year, and late last season. And I think these WRs are off because nobody practices. We're too worried about them getting hurt in full go practice, yet that's the best way to be game ready. And I wonder why Ski is playing so reserved, with the short passes, other teams are just stacking the box to kill us. Last year Baker kept them honest.

Was at the game, OBJ is open a lot. Baker is the problem. He either doesn't see him, or he can't see him. There were a couple times he had his man beat and was behind the defense, and Baker never even looked his way. I never believed it, but after watching live, and seeing the whole field, Baker is the problem. Sit him until he heals, then next offseason, bring in a QB who can actually see the field. While we are at it, draft a decent WR, because we don't have a good one on this team.

This will define Stefanski. We need a more "air raid" offense that suits Mayfield. Will Kevin be smart enough to design the offense around Mayfield?? So far that's a no.

Baker is the problem.

Kevin, that you?

If I, as management, had to hitch my wagon to one or the other for the next 10 years...I'm picking Stefanski over Baker and never looking back.

I’ve seen how many times he’s open. Obviously people are gonna point to some of the drops he had, but it’s clear OBJ is open more often than not.

That being said, if baker isn’t looking his way, is that because baker doesn’t think he can get the ball that far to OBJ? Or is it Stefanski telling baker not to even try to make those throws?

Or is it that the only time Baker targets OBJ is when he's both his first read AND open, because he doesn't go through his progressions fast/well enough?

I did wonder several weeks ago, before Baker got hurt, if they are keeping that deep stuff in reserve for the home stretch. Then I thought about Baker's preseason in 2019 and all the deep strikes to WRs they showed in camp all the time... Last year there was way less for obvious reasons, but I don't recall a single deep bomb in any camp footage this year. Do you think they quit practicing them?

And another thing I'm not seeing recently is the WRs fighting as hard for the YAC as they were before and last year. Baker is hurt, but I still think healthy Bake is a top 10 QB when he's hot and the pieces around him are all clicking like last year.

Or is it that OBJ is open but not when and where he is supposed to be?

Baker spreads the ball around quite well...him not "seeing" JUST OBJ would be really weird. I'm sticking by my prediction that some time after OBJ is gone, the stories of his route running and timing will come out.

Baker is not the problem. 5'10" (ha) WRs who drop the ball while making 32 mil/yr are the problem.

The unfortunate thing is Baker/Landry and Baker/Higgy usually are pretty well connected. Yesterday they weren’t

DISCLAIMER: I can't figure out if there is a way to bold or underline text on the new site here...so I picked the above out of the below.

"Was at the game, OBJ is open a lot. Baker is the problem. He either doesn't see him, or he can't see him. There were a couple times he had his man beat and was behind the defense, and Baker never even looked his way. I never believed it, but after watching live, and seeing the whole field, Baker is the problem. Sit him until he heals, then next offseason, bring in a QB who can actually see the field. While we are at it, draft a decent WR, because we don't have a good one on this team."

Baker was 20-31 yesterday. Landry had (2) huge drops...D'Earnest had (2) dropped balls that hit him in the head/chest...Hooper dropped an easy TD. That's just off the top of my head and before re-watching the game.

Baker is not the problem. Next up will be the 'ole 'Baker can't lead a comeback' BS (not saying from you)...he did it TWICE yesterday in answer to the Steelers' last TD...TWICE!

The bold and other features are available if you hit "use full editor" tab underneath the text box.

Agree on the 5 drops. Making it 20-26: 77% competition while playing with serious injury.

At this point any loss is an excuse to Baker Bash. It won't stop. Baker definitely has room to improve. He may cost us a game with some really bad play before the end of the season (assuming he doesn't get sat down due to injury) ... but there's a whole lot that ails this team other than Baker. Baker is not the reason we are 4-4

Last year Baker didn't have a sling on his arm either.

j/c...

At some point production matters. I have never come across a situation like this with any team.

The team should sit both Baker and Beckham for the immediate future, (Cincinnati game), plus.)
It's pretty obvious that
neither player is healthy anyway.

He did it twice yesterday? Where were the points. The Browns only scored 10 all day.
aggravation: Lauletta, Keenum, (injured Baker), AGGRAVATION that I have to make a case for one of those < 3, options.
Who waived Lauletta?
well of course! well of course!! well of course!!! they all stink, one of them should have been able to get a touchdown but which one. TEN POINTS!
" there are only bad options, this is the best bad option we have."

The bold and underline options are after choosing "use full editor" which gives the full page reply screen.

Wait. I must have bumped my head. How many times did Baker lead scoring drives that brought the Browns from behind to ahead during the 4th quarter again yesterday???

Gaining some yards that don't result in points is neither an "answer" nor a "comeback".

That's the equivalent of a point guard that can dribble really fancy but can't actually shoot or pass. Nobody cares.

And he didn't have a sling on for the first three or four games this year either, but the pass game has been focusing on the ten-to-fifteen-yard range IMHO. How many deep shots this year compared to last year? That stat will probably give you some answers.

Go look at the videos Milk Man just posted in the post game thread. The throws downfield are there.

You know.. I have always wondered why every other team can scheme their receiver open an we cant. All this out of sync stuff is B.S. Either Baker sees him or he does not. And more time than not, this year, Baker aint seeing much. Unless off of the playa-action pass where he has only a few options.. Baker aint getting it done!! Stefanski gets some of the blame also because since he calls the plays and designs the plays, he gets some of the blame.

But when I saw this, its apparent, OBJ aint the total problem:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CVv8rG5FMNv/?utm_medium=share_sheet

I hope everyone can see this because it shows that OBJ is getting open and Baker is not seeing him!!!... There are plays that are blitzes and OBJ runs the correct hot route, Baker holding on to the ball. Yes, the last game, there were alot of drops, those cost the Browns in the end. But the other games, Baker does not see OBJ open. Think about it. KC, you know they are throwing to Hill or Kelce, and they still get them the ball!!!.

I saw, and you have to have time to throw? All I know is it's not Baker.

Look folks, people always ask, why was Baker so good last year..etc. Baker's best throws come off of Play-action. In Play action, you only have 3 options.. short, medium and the long route... When Baker has to go 4 or 5 wide, he does not excel. I will not blame yesterday's loss on Baker. But this OBJ mis-connection is on Stefanski and Baker.

Baker and Ski dropping those passes? I won't put 100% on any of the three, but people saying what you are saying need to see OBJ for what he is. He's not who he was as a rookie. I was as excited as anyone when we got OBJ, but we're 2.5 seasons in with him now and he hasn't shown me jack squat since he's been here, other than circus catches in practice. Some of the talking heads are saying he's afraid to take a big hit. There might be something to that, but either way there is still little to no production 2.5 seasons in. But both Baker and Ski (at times) have shown they can be the guy in that same stretch.

Circus catches in practice and pregame. Otherwise? Eh

I agree. It has to be more than one reason. There seems to be disconnect in the entire passing game.

I am sure OBJ does get open. Maybe not when Baker looks at him? Maybe that is scheme in that OBJ's routes take longer to develop, maybe just bad luck. If OBJ doesn't look open when baker looks his way, if he goes off the look to elsewhere, he probably isn't going back to OBJ. Maybe OBJ needs to be the 2nd look from baker? I don't know.

One thing I do see from Baker that I don't like is he double clutches the ball a lot, but sticks with the throw. The hesitation is a cause for concern IMO.

One thing in the scheme I don't like is that to me, Baker isn't a classic pocket passer. We need to bring in more designed rolling pockets for the guy. He does his best on the move. I think he sees things better rolling one way or the other, being able to scan more or less directly ahead, then back towards the middle as back side receivers start moving in his direction.

I know that bunches the field and ideally you don't want to do that, but if that is where your QB is best, then you probably need to do that or find a new QB to fit what the coach likes. JMO

Good to see you DinDC

He can only lead the comeback (which he did twice in the 4th Q)...he can't throw it AND catch it. In any scoring drive, someone in addition to the QB HAS to make a play. He had the opposite of that.

Gaining some yards? Seriously. After the final Pitt TD, he "gained some yards" on two separate drives where we had the momentum and someone else made a mistake to stop the comeback.

If the point guard makes passes to the big guy under the basket and the big guy keeps fumbling the ball out of bounds, does that mean the point guard didn't do his part?

I have zero inside info...but I don't think Baker trusts OBJ to be where he's supposed to be and when he's supposed to be there. JMO. I think the double-clutching could easily be as much on Baker as it could be on the route runner. And no...I do not think Baker is infallible...but he showed that he can lead a late comeback against an AFC opponent though.

We have the exact same issue with our pass-catching players as we did last year...we just aren't over-coming the issue this year. Fill-in-the-sentence for whatever reason I/you/they think applies.

Your right that Bake did his part and others let him down … the fumble, the drops and Ski not taking the FG on 4th and 12 … 100% correct my friend ….

Your wrong that he led a 4th quarter comeback … we never took the lead bro regardless of whose fault it was …

He almost led a Q4 comeback but did’t have the chance to do the important part through no fault of his own … I’d agree with that …. *L*

I don't think you understand what the word "comeback" means. Literally to come from behind and take a lead, usually at or near the end of the game, resulting in your team winning a game they were previously losing. No, a single player can't always do it alone. But in a league where all the rules favor offenses and passing and are specifically designed to facilitate close endings, the elite franchise QBs lead real "comebacks" fairly regularly, regardless of the team around them.

Yes someone else made a big mistake on two of those drives but there were other plays and other opportunities as well. It didn't happen. They didn't score, thus NO COMEBACK occurred. You don't just get to claim it out of thin air for funsies just because you like the guy. It either happened or didn't.

Sadly with Baker it doesn't happen a lot for a guy trying to get paid to be the guy who can do just that on a regular basis. You make your money and win your games in the 4th quarter.

And no, to your basketball analogy it doesn't mean the PG didn't necessarily do his part (though again there are other opportunities - maybe pass to someone else - maybe take the shot yourself etc) but you also don't get to give anyone credit for a comeback that didn't happen.

j/c:

because this is exactly what we need right now.......

And on the flip side, Emily Mayfield retweeted the Ed Greenberger video clips.

Things are reaching the all too familiar tipping point before the season spirals out of control. Ah, back to the good ol' days!

Unfortunately OBJ is due around $8 million the rest of this season. No one is trading for that contract with that production.

Lol... social media slap fight between Mrs. Mayfield and old-man Beckham.

It would appear, by all evidence available, that we've been in an alternate dimension since the beginning of last season, and are just now stepping out of it.

Emily Mayfield needs to have guided access put on her phone.

***Begins looking at 2022 mock drafts***

To be fair... isn't social media her "thing"? Limiting her voice online is kinda akin to taking a typewriter/keyboard away from a journalist.

I’m okay with her posting makeup tutorials on Instagram.

Side note: I love the idea of a journalist using a typewriter in 2021.

At the end of the day, I feel similar about her football-related takes on the internet as you do. If OBJ's dad can jump on a video that's thrown out there, I don't see why she can't throw a like on something that backs up her dude... is all I'm saying.

OBJ’s dad can zip it too.

j/c:





#FreeRashardHiggins
#FreeDavidNjoku

Browns should agree to eat a good portion of the remainder owed this season.

I agree. Do what the Broncos did with the Rams (and what baseball teams do all the time). Eat money to get more compensation. OBJ is out the door when the season ends and it's pretty clear that him being on the team isn't working. Get value for him now.

The question that remains, does anybody want him?

Her and Brittany Matthews causing some problems for their teams (Patrick Mahomes' mom and brother, too)!

Free to good home.

And like the OG football deal in this regard......The Osweiler trade.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/CLE/cleveland-browns/stats/regular/

Per link, DPJ has just under half the targets that OBJ does (34 vs 15) and I would imagine the difference is even more last season). I would love to dig more into the 150 vs 78 rating between OBJ and DPJ, but the targets question was the first thing I wondered about. OBJ has been the most targeted receiver on the Browns.

NOT NOW LEBRON!

Um..."#FreeOBJ" ?!?

Clearly, he has an account on Dawgtalkers at least as far back to when Todd Monken was here.

Speak it into existence, Bron Bron!

Dame Time weighing in!

At least this won't be a major distraction for the rest of the season if Odell isn't moved today.

Diam,
The first part of the misconnect is scheme. By putting OB wide, you are allowing the corner and the safety to shade over to OBJ. If you MOVE him in motion the D has to figure who has him in man or just go stay in a zone. BUt that safety help will be hard. If you put OBJ in a WRs trips bunch, atleast the D will probably have stay zone and again hard to figure where OBJ is going. Again, every other team will scheme their WRs to get the ball.. Stefanski = NOPE.

The second part is Baker. Baker just is not scanning the whole field. Baker excels at the play-action game.. When we are 4 or 5 wide.. how good is Baker then?? And Again, I am not blaming the Pitt game on him because the drops were just killers. But OBJ with 2 targets.. and the last one was late and dangerous at best.

I dont blame either of them for their actions. But its the media's fault for giving them attention. I dont think that any family member of a player should get any extra attention when their not playing football. Also, this game was not on Baker, so she can post today. What about the other games? She was very quiet!!!

It's for the best.

How did Clarence Hill get that summary from that Tweet???

I felt he was adding to the Tweet.

That sort of image says nothing. It's like showing a car going through an intersection, and getting into an accident, and not showing the stop light.

That still shot is just OBJ's dad continuing to stir the pot.

Did u see the video that his dad posted? It's very telling. Some of those blatant misses or ignoring is inexcusable.

He can't wait to get out of Cleveland and I don't blame him.

His dad is trying to force the hand of Berry. The timing of all of this tells the whole story..

This is known as "The Aaron Rodgers".

Then why link it to a Tweet that has nothing to do with his statement? People crack me up.

I had to get this off my chest!!

The Browns are the ONLY team that gets a Ferrari or a AMG GT and does not know how to drive it!!!.. We leave the Ferrari in the garage!! OR we drive the AMG GT to the grocery store and back!!!.. OK.. I'm done.. but I defiantly blame Stefanski for some of this.

So what changed from last year? We literally have all the same players back and all the same coaches back. OBJ is back and our QB's shoulder is being held on my fabric.

j/c...

Just rip the band aid off.

The whole OBJ thing is a huge distraction for a Team that can ill afford it . Question is ; Do the FO see it that way ?

No, nothing really changed. When our offense is working, it means that we are running heavy and play action pass off of that. Once we get behind or have to go pass heavy, then the Browns are in trouble. And again, I dont think the Pitt loss is on Baker. But this narrative that its OBJ problem when its NOT!!.. Stefanski first, Baker second!

Stefanski is the only coach that cant scheme a player open, even though every other coach can their guy the ball!!!.. I dont mind team ball but 2 looks in a game is weak!
Baker is a good play action passer because it takes half the field, and you only have 3 options on those routes. Look at Baker when we go 4 wide. Hell, look at Baker from the First to third quarter in the Pitt game.

This is the first real adversity the Berry/Stefanski partnership has faced. Trading OBJ can show to players that you can just get whatever you want. Keeping him can create a problem within the team. This is why they are paid the big bucks.

So you don't believe OBJ's dad that he (OBJ) is open all the time?

Just let the man go. They're not gonna do anything with him anyway. It's not like we're gonna see some drastic change from Baker and the play calling.

It just seems such an " Open and Closed case " to me .. How good he is / great he was , will be means nothing in Cleveland . Team first , second , ect , ect .

OBJ isn't the only WR that's frustrated with Baker. Although they don't really have a leg to stand on after the Steelers game but I've been getting that same vibe from Njoku and Higgins throughout the season. They are bored. Body language is everything and I've been spotting it for weeks. Before this Sunday, they were hardly involved because coach is so hellbent on us being a run first team.

We currently have ten more rushing attempts than passing attempts. Our QB has a broken shoulder.

I dont and I think that is all OBJ Sr is saying. This problem with the offense is not OBJs fault. The problem starts with Stefanski. Look how many pts we have scored that last several games!!! Look teams are crowding the line to stop the run and then stacking 2 deep safeties on us. Hell, Pitt plays zone 85% of the time. We could not figure it out. Stefanski couldn't and Baker couldn't. So this problem we have is not a OBJ problem. When teams take away the run, then what do we do??

This weekend we bounced balls off WRs hands quite a bit.

Maybe like catch the ball or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5.

j/c...

Dwayne Bowe, lol.

Well, that settles it.

/Thread

This sounds like someone from, .. NY or Dallas, or wherever, lobbying for the Browns to get their best player, OBJ, and send him to a team where the other fans can watch him play well and then shove it in Clevelands face.

I think the plan all along, was to have OBJ, sign a free agent deal on another team AFTER this seson ends. and that Gives the Browns a Great Compensatory Pick.

And I like that Plan ^. Even so. At this point,

I just have had enough of injured OBJ, with that Achilles, and injured Baker with that Shoulder, and the BEST CHANCE, I believe, to see the Browns win games, IS TO SIT BOTH OF EM FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR,
Screw it. I want to see the BROWSN WIN!!!!!!!!!!

I don't care about players egos! And I don't care that player F, is getting xx millions paid, I don't want to see them play, until they can make plays on the field.

AND IF THEY TRADE OBJ, THEY ARE EVEN STUPIDER THAN I THOUGHT THEY WERE. ( I know it's supposed to be more stupid but I felt it had more "Jenny say CAW! " to use stupider.

No sir, just want us to reach our max potential and we appear to do that without him. What's the point in having obj here if they can't get him involved? This has been an issue since he got here. It's boiling over now, just let him go so we can move on. Maybe it'll be a repeat of last year when obj went out.

I assume there's more that I am not seeing???

In his tweet to Beckham's father, Bowe said "They did me the same way.".

Can we, as a community, agree to blame John Dorsey for this saga as he is the one who traded for OBJ?

As long as you give him credit for the 35 other players still on our team

Deal!

Try like 11.

I counted seven on the active roster but who’s counting?

obviously, 35 was obnoxious but... 14 is accurate

Baker
Chubb
Landry
OBJ
Ward
Williams
Takitaki
Wilson
Gillan
Hunt
D’Ernest Johnson
Teller
Gustin
Forbes


I'd say that's a pretty solid list in 2 years time

Forbes? is still around but not Garrett Gilkey? and Jordan Elliott is still around.

'Solid List' is subjective. How many of these guys are impact players?

Baker is a hot topic and some love many hate him. And that's the most important position on any team.
Chubb is as good or better than any RB in the NFL.
Landry I love - despite a bad game vs Pit.
OBJ has done nothing. So as good as that trade might have looked on paper it has not worked out.
Hunt, Johnson, Teller are all great players. (Johnson sample size is small).

5 impact players? 2 years and how many draft picks? And in some cases we lost good players to acquire these guys.

I was a John Dorsey supporter. I don't know that his legacy is lasting as well as we thought it would at one time. And that's not even bringing Kitchens into the discussion.

The trade deadline has passed. OBJ is still in Berea. Clearly now he is a virus.

so what is your guesses to the number of pass attempts to OBJ next game at Cinci now that all this has come out? Will Baker throw it more to him to prove a point?

I would just ask Bowe what team(s) took advantage of his immense talent after his time here.

Revisionist history is the last refuge of losers.

I don’t understand why he is all of a sudden a team cancer because his Dad made a YouTube video
This isn’t the first time a big name receiver has wanted the ball.
Say what you will about him not being the same player anymore, but he’s still alot better than 1 catch for 6 yards.
We are at .500… not the end of the world with how the rest of the AFC looks now.
It would be cool if he, or Baker came out tomorrow, address the issue and get him involved in the game plan (Stefanksi/Van Pelt) and win some football games!
If not, he has no dead money (cap hit) next season
Trade or move on. That looks to be the likely scenario, but I would love for them to prove everyone wrong!

When your repertoire with the Browns is making 1 handed catches in pregame, and you can't make 2 handed catches DURING the game, it starts to wear, poorly.

He caught his only official target Sunday. Hard to make any kind of catches when your QB doesn’t throw it your way. I know he dropped a few crucial passes on 4th downs I believe earlier..
But had he performed like Landry did, everyone would have tried to run him out of town!
Im sure the guy busted his tail in the off-season to get back from the ACL to try and help this team win. And he’s fighting through injuries as well ( like a lot of our players)
He’s said all of the right things and reported to be a good teammate up until his Pops posted that video. The media has been trying to trade him when he got here.
I’m just hoping for a positive outcome for everyone and I think if Stefanksi would stop using the 3 tight end sets so much, and open up the deep ball we would flourish!
Kareem Hunt is our leading receiver as a RB who has been out for two games now.
That is the definition of conservative/dink and dunk.

I have no doubt he busted his tail after his acl injury, in order to get back.

But when you say his "only official target was a catch" for 6 yards, it's hard to take it seriously, as I vividly remember other 'targets', especially towards the end of the game when he lamely tried to 1 hand catch a ball. If that is what the "official" stats say - 1 target, 1 catch, I have a real problem with the 'statisticians", as obviously they have no clue what's going on on the field.

Wow, I take A day off and all hell breaks loose. Let me see if I got this right...

Today was the trade deadline.
OBJ's dad goes on Instagram and blasts Baker.
LBJ and other NBA players weigh in.
Browns' players like the Instagram post.
Emily Mayfield blasts those teammates that liked the post.
The day ends and no trades are made.
Did I miss anything?

The stat line was making a point as to how little he is being used in this offense
Why pay a guy 15 +mil a year to use him as a decoy the majority of the time?
As for your other comment, I like to think I know a little bit about what’s going on ..
Been watching the Browns since 1985. But since I’m a “rookie” I guess I get it.

You, and everybody else, missed the more important fact where we did not trade for help at Right Tackle/Swing Tackle.
Berry has thrown in the towel on 2021.

???? Who said anything about your post status? Oh, you.

I've been an avid fan of the Browns since......well, 1978, when I was 10. So, I've got 7 years on you. So what?

That 'stat" line is a joke if it says he was targeted 1 time. Period, End of discussion. Are you beckham sr.?

Lol. No I’m not Beckham Sr.
I know he can help us win football games though.
You implied that I had no idea what was going on
So I implied that I must be a rookie
What is your grand solution then, oh football guru. ??
If we finish the year with Hunt and Hooper as our leaders in receiving, this passing game has no chance.

I feel like Hance has held up pretty well when he’s the only replacement on the line.

There is no evidence of that happening.



It must have taken a lot of crayon to connect those dots.


Arch is basing his stance on things that have actually happened. You're basing yours on a pipe dream that's really looking like it just wasn't meant to be.

Lol. Wow. I thought we were fans of the same football team.
So, first point…and I think I’m in the overwhelming majority here
A talented player like OBJ can make a huge impact in our lack of a chunk passing game.
I know he hasn’t put up the results that you or I or anyone else envisioned
We all know Stefanksis style of 3TE run first play calling, so I don’t think Odell will do what he did statistically in New York.
But he is a football player for the Cleveland Browns and why wouldn’t i want him to succeed?
Some of the media and fans have turned on him and I can see why from a certain extent.
As long as he is out for our team, I’ll be rooting just as hard as anyone
As far as the crayon comment is concerned… all I can do is laugh. Something I’d expect out of a Steelers or Ravens fan.
And Arch is basing his point on facts?
I guess OBJ hasn’t had any success in this league?
Also, all both of you have done is criticize my posts instead of offering any opinion of your own.
That has to take an awful lot of effort and thought

Not since 2016.

All of you can take it easy on the new poster. He has 35 posts and no clue what all your agendas and biases are yet. smh

Welcome to the board Westy15.

j/c

Zooming out from this issue by a few frames, I'll say this: this is the first real test of the new culture that's supposed to be in Berea. Last year, most folks would have been shocked to see a Cleveland Browns team play anywhere near .500 ball for the season, given the covid circumstances and all. The team held together tough and played the last half of the season out of their minds. Those were last year's test of the culture. This is the 2021 test. In mid-season. With everyone watching.

At this point, there is only one thing for me to do- sit back, and watch what happens.

Stuff like this tests the fabric of an organization. I guess we'll see how well-woven this team has made itself over the past 18-24 months.


I'm neither hopeful or despondent. I've been around the block too many times for any other approach.


.02

Oh, I still think we will finish strong, just not sure win that will start... Could be this week or week 16. So far though, I'm with you on the "fabric" and intend to sit back and watch them swim or drown trying to get it right.

j/c:

The OBJ experiment has shown no evidence that it will succeed. He had a couple great seasons 4-5 yrs ago for a different team. It just hasn't worked here, and now with the Twitter crap! We had people here that kept wanting to ride the Hue Jackson train after he went 1-31, and this is looking very similar. You have to exercise patience, but you also have to draw the line. I don't even think it's all on OBJ, it just isn't working for some reason or another. We DON'T need the distraction this story brings.

I don't know if it is throwing in the towel, BUT...I think some Berry ego is starting to surface. I think maybe he places a bit too much trust in his daft picks. I suppose he feels that Hudson will be able to step in as the next man up.

Maybe he is the next man up, but to me he doesn't look like a able next man up.

We can see this in other areas. Take Billings as an example. I think everybody feels he sucks and isn't worthy of a roster spot, yet we have a 3rd round pick in Tommy Togiai who the coach won't even activate on gameday. How good can that guy be if he can't even displace Billing on the active roster?

A bit of the shine on all of this is beginning to get a bit dull.

As soon as Bowe threw his hat in the ring I belly laughed

I was as optimistic about the OBJ-Baker thing as anyone, and I remained so until a couple games ago. It's been 2.5 years... if they haven't figured it out by now it's probably just isn't in the cards. I don't know what the reason(s) behind it are... it just is what it is.

As far as moving forward, Baker has shown more on the field than Beckham has as far as why we should hang onto either. Beckham is part of an extremely expensive and extremely disappointing receiver corp. He's been the most targeted receiver on the team over the course of this year despite missing 2 games (DPJ has less than half that number of targets). We have DPJ, Njoku, and Higgins that need to see the ball more, and we have guys who will need to get paid.


Long story short... I'm super bummed that OBJ apparently isn't working out. And I think discussions should happen or be happening as to the why behind it... but I will have a complete meltdown if I see Njoku and Higgins walk at the end of this year because they aren't going to get paid and haven't seen the ball enough this season.

My thinking is very similar. I don't know exactly why it isn't working...but it's simply and clearly not. Like in any bad relationship, committing to re-inventing yourselves after so much dysfunction likely isn't going to happen. Here's what I really don't get:

The connection hasn't worked since they've been together. We've played better without him than with him. OBJ isn't going to be here next year. Why continue in this abusive relationship when the end is imminent anyway? Right now, the roster spot is more important than the connection. If they couldn't trade him while eating his contract, then just release him while eating his contract...or put him on IR until his shoulder is healed...like for the rest of the year.

Lastly, Baker routinely spreads the ball around to 7-8-9 different players in a game...yet he cannot connect with OBJ. Why is that? I think Baker doesn't trust him. I think Baker double-clutches waiting to see what OBJ is going to do as opposed to what he is supposed to do. JMO.

In any event, given that OBJ won't be here next year, why bother to try and make this work in the last half of this year? It's time to move on.

Westy...welcome to the DawgTalk message board. You will find that this board has a GREAT GROUP of board members who are dedicated Browns fans. All of us will have differing opinions at times depending on the various subject matter...but, over time you will realize that different viewpoints can be a good thing. If everyone had the same opinion on each subject this would be the most boring Browns board on the net.

There will be disagreements but don't take those differing viewpoints 'personally' . Again, welcome to the board and enjoy the conversation...mac

His value is that of a starter-caliber WR while we're still working our way out of injury hell. Once DPJ is full-go, I wouldn't be disappointed to never see him on the field again... but I'd rather see him getting snaps than Schwartz (right now).

Welcome to Westy15 first of all. Welcome aboard.

Clemdawg, the songs remain the same (smh loudly). Looking at all the games we have won on paper up to this point. Drank most of my weight in kool-aid again. And we should be in the attic, not the cellar IMO. Stefanski has become myopic and should hand it to Van Pelt for a bit. NO analytics would call for Chubb for two and keep calling it with the box stacked. If we start forcing it to OBJ and he drops most of them, we are in an even lousier place. Woods makes sissies out of us on D and they have lost too many leads to trust this scheme.

Occam's Razor would suggest that given our losses as outcomes, then either our measurements and analytics are wrong, our application of them is wrong, or that we are not interpreting them correctly. I do not, based on what I have observed thus far, place much optimism and hope in these coaches' abilities to get after it and turn it around. Argue among yourselves whether it is the inexcusably impotent offense or the weak-sister defense that is making you crazier.

I am on record: I am now fully willing to watch better football. Go, Browns.

Willie...I think you are right, Baker doesn't trust OBJ and he hesitates to throw the ball to him. IMO, the timing appears to be off just a bit. When OBJ breaks open, Baker has progressed to his next target. From Baker's viewpoint at the split second that OBJ appears to be open, Baker doesn't see him. The look we get on a video replay might not represent the view Baker is dealing with. He might be shifting in the pocket due to pressure from the defense or he simply can't see OBJ. The timing is just not right for some reason.

This is where Stefanski needs to sit Baker down and ask just him just what it is that is causing him (Baker) to hesitate. A good OC/coach has to develop a close relationship with his QB and let him know what he wants on each pass play.

NOW, don't get the impression that I'm laying this mess on Baker...I'm not. When was the last time you saw a WR bitch about his QB, showing a video that is intended to damage his QBs play from just one biased point of view. It's all Baker's fault ...right?

OBJ is such a stand up team player...right?

This video was concocted by OBJ and maybe his daddy, in an effort to force the Browns front office to get rid of OBJ. OBJ was trying to force his way out of Cleveland.
In no way do I buy into the lame-ass claim that OBJ's daddy did this without his sonny knowing it...get real folks!

If I'm Stefanski, OBJ starts and will the #1 progression on every pass play and I tell Baker to throw the damn ball...and OBJ damn well better catch every ball that is within his reach.

I really find it hard to understand all the Odell hate. Dude has been nothing but a solid teammate and worked his butt off to get back. Everyone acting like is worse than higgins or DPJ, tell me, how many 1k seasons do they have? OBJ every season with the Giants did with the exception of his injury season, then the next year again with a 1k season, and his first year here 1k yards. Sorry but that video shows more of what alot of people are seeing that Baker simply isn't reading the field or making the right throws this year. What's changed since OBJ last 1k yard season.. Coaching, FO and scheme. Yeah OBJ dropped a couple, every receiver does. Probably forgot what the ball feels like getting 1 or 2 targets a game after average atleast 10 before he came here. Hell even under Freddie he got 10. Can't make an impact when you don't get the ball and baker isn't getting him the ball for some reason. Looking at that video, the dude is running crisp routes, moving around to find a hole in the zone, yet the ball isn't getting thrown to him. Now if you want to say it isn't working because there's just some chemistry issues, sure. But can't develop chemistry if you never throw the ball to him. Theres alot broken with this offense, but I don't believe OBJ is one of them. He didn't all of a sudden become Dwayne Bowe. I've said before, Stefanski needs to give up playcalling. Simple as that. What he's doing and his offense isn't working. I'd also sit Baker the rest of the season. If he says the injury isn't affecting him then he shouldn't get a pass from fans for his mediocre play. We aren't going to the playoffs anyways.. Get the surgery, heal, and get ready for next year. I'm confident we win what we were going to win with Keenum. We are a running team and as long as chubb is healthy, we should still win what we were going to. Its not like Baker is this huge difference maker on offense.

j/c...

Oh boy...

Are we just going to send him home for the rest of the year?

It looks like it lol

Cut him and start DPJ. Watch the team start winning.

Quite possibly.

It would be bad for our cap to cut him. And he’d probably end up on Baltimore and kill us.

DeShaun Watson him and cut him or trade him after the season.

Yep. Deactivating him and not allowing OBJ to play elsewhere is the smart move.

Kinda like how the Cavs deactivated J.R. Swish so he couldn't go on to lead another NBA franchise to an assured title!

Sure sounds smart. One thing I wonder about though is Landry, you know he is best friends with OBJ. I wonder how that dynamic will sort its way out?

It would be much easier IMO if DPJ was healthy

Thanks for the welcome posts everyone!
Fun to talk football with you guys.
Well, they excused Odell from practice…
Makes me think there is something else going on besides his Dads social media video..
Or else that’s a pretty harsh punishment.
Brings to mind old Keyshawn Johnson and his book just give me the dam* ball! Lol

I agree...I also think OBJs injured shoulder(s) are legit. It's unfortunate that it hasn't worked out. It seems to me that most people feel that way...as opposed to some contrived OBJ-hate that isn't really prevalent on this site IMO.

OBJ has been open. How does cutting him fix Bakers ineptitude!?!

It doesn't. But having him around being a dramaqueen is going to help anything.

j/c...

Something to ponder.

These are the options:

1. Cut OBJ. He goes through waivers but any team that claims him has to pay his remaining salary (around $8M). There are only a few contenders with that amount of money available. More likely is that he goes through waivers unclaimed. He then can sign with any team.

2. We just send him home and cut him after the season. He's inactive for gameday. My guess is that if this happens he goes nuts in the media and nukes the team.

3. Try to reconcile the situation.

The OBJ situation was always likely to end ugly. That's who he is. I didn't think it would end this quickly with so little value provided to the team.

Please fill in the blanks.

OBJ has been open and Baker doesn't want to throw him the ball because ......?

Baker can only see open receivers in play action because .......... ? Remember though Baker never played in a play action offense in college or first years in the NFL and won a heisman trophy and set the NFL rookie TD record.

I do believe there are things going on that only the coaches and team knows related to OBJ's problems. Be that running the wrong routes, running routes the wrong way, not adjusting to situations (blitzes audibles, etc.). It's pure speculation but I'll add it as at least as plausible as the "Baker specifically can't see OBJ open, or its magical, they have no chemistry theories".

Can anyone answer why the Giants traded OBJ in the first place? Does anyone trade the supposed best WR in the league? Maybe because OBJ is an oft-injured, sometimes temperamental receiver with diminished skills except for in pre-game warm-ups. Moreover, he is an island in and of himself. He is not integrated into the team, he skips the entire preseason and then shows up on gameday as a mercenary, and it's the teams fault for allowing him to do it.

Cleveland was duped, move on and don't punish the team trying to make this work.


If OBJ becomes a star or even a thousand yard receiver on another team next year, I'll come back to this thread and eat all the crow you can serve.

And that's exactly the way this whole thing works. If we were 6-2 or 7-1 right now, nobody would notice. Nobody would care. And what you're describing would be considered developing our draft picks for the future. In case posters have forgotten, that's exactly what it was being called. People were saying we finally had the people in charge to use the draft the way it's supposed to work. How great teams keep their coaches and FO's so they can develop players to take over for high priced FA to help control the salary cap.

Now, sitting at .500 people have a totally different perception of the exact same thing. What was seen as a strength when were were winning is seen as a fault now that we're losing. It's easy to see thigs as sunshine and roses when everything goes well. It's also easy to nitpick and play the blame game when people think things are going to hell.

j/c...

"Next steps"......Doesn't seem like he plays another game in a Browns uniform.

That said watch him go for 200 yds and 2 TDs Sunday if he does.....with Case Keenum. Then things REALLY heat up!

Bingo.

I honestly agree, in theory, with what you're saying. But then what will you say when the offense starts getting back on track if he's not out there? It's happened before.

j/c...

j/c:

Imagine not trading for Odell and having the 2019 first rounder to use on DK Metcalf. Today, we'd only be discussing our top WR on his attempts to secure foursomes via Onlyfans.

I'm certainly not trying to totally dismiss your comment. But it's not as simple as that. QB's go through progressions. They look at each WR in a certain order. So the question one has to ask is, when Baker is looking at OBJ during his progressions, is OBJ open at that time? As an example. Let's say OBJ is Bakers first progression on a pass play that has three possible targets. Is OBJ open when Baker is looking his way? Or does OBJ break open when Baker is on his third target in his progression? That's one thing seeing a video of an open WR doesn't tell you. When you're looking at the left side of the field it's pretty hard to see an open WR on the right side of the field.

I know people say things like "a QB should see the entire field". But that's not actually how it works.

This is not good news. But the FO, coaching staff and OBJ keeping what ever issues are going on private, I give credit to them all for doing so. It will all come to the forefront eventually.

He gone.

Obviously not, but it's the best worst path.

I made fun of people when they said this last year coming out of that Cinci game... but if OBJ stays home and we get the O back on the track, the narrative does another massive shift another way (and they'll similarly ignore all the other circumstances like injuries and schedule and the D).

Because let's face it, other than a couple 'likes' on whatever social media platform, we're talking about smoke that's all external to the facility. I'm willing to be things are far less dramatic inside the locker room than it is outside.

Memphis, crazy you said that. I remember during the 2019 combine wishing we had gone the Metcalf, Hollywood Brown, or Deebo Samuel route from the draft instead of trading our 1st rounder for OBJ. Not because I thought OBJ would be bad, but because I didn't want to deal with his injuries, baggage, and you get a younger player.

j/c:

Poisoned milk.

At some point production counts. Odell has not produced. Pick a cause. Injury, chemistry, drops, routes, offense, Baker.

Then there is the strong friendship with Jarvis to consider.

Now we have a full brown management issue. All because Odell is unhappy.

Frankly, it seems Odell is injured when his feelings get hurt.

I don't give damn what they do with him. We didn't need him last year as we went to the playoffs. And since we are 4-4 what is he really going to add?

he’ll end up with GB or Baltimore or a contender. He’ll probably do well. But he can’t function here anymore

so lets say OBJ stays out the rest of the season....

if baker doesn't get better, what will the next excuse be? jarvis is the problem? the TE's? the o line and running backs?

everybody wanted OBJ to be the scapegoat. well, you're getting your wishes. well, since a lot of posters think we're better without him, we're gonna see this season once and for all.

Cap space would be tricky for Ravens ($1.694M cap space) and Packers ($5.91M cap space)

Chargers?

Can OBJ even pass a team physical? Likely one of the reason he was not able to be traded.

On a side note, the worst part in all this is that you'll have to change your signature.

The Baker apologists will never admit defeat. They are all in.

I would probably give it another year with Baker’s arm healthy and see how it goes.

Swish, can't speak for other posters, but I doubt many wanted him off the team for the hell of it. The simple fact is we have been better without him. Both the team and Baker.

Also maybe Berry is doing this to say to Baker, distraction/poor chemistry WR gone, now perform, the ball is in your court.

Nobody wanted OBJ to be a scapegoat. Everyone wanted it to work. I would guess nobody actually knows the full reasons why it didn't.

I don't think you can do anything other than try to learn some sort of lesson, and make the best decision for the future.

After watching only a few players celebrate the Johnson TD against a Divisional Rival has me feeling something is wrong in the locker room. You just scored and barely any excitement . Half for OBJ... half for Baker IDK, just doesn't feel right.

With Landry and OBJ being close.. I also wonder if Landry's performance against Pittsburgh wasn't a sign of who he supports. I'm speculating of course, But wth ! Feels wrong !

If something feels off about a team then usually there is something

We’ll see if we galvanize like we did last year (our schedule won’t help)

Keenum and Odell already played together in the Denver Game. And Keenum threw an easy -ish catch to Beckham who did not make the catch, and it wasn't really a defense knocked it away thing either.

Both Baker and OBJ should be on the bench, best chance for the Browns to win. How the heck have they not gone deep to Rashard Higgins? More often this year.

Rashard Higgins has not been a problem with either Baker, or Keenum. Neither has Landry, Neither has Njoku. Neither has DPJ really, if he ever gets on the field.
Neither have the gimmick guys they put on the field in the last 2 years, whether Schwartz, or (Anthony Hall,), or Felton, or JoJo, or Davion Davis.

Bakers Shoulder is screwey. Keenum gives them a better chance to win. (TODAY), and all the receivers need to get on board.

And Stefanski is, not hitting on all cyllinders.

Without getting Turnovers! Forced by the defense, the Browns are going to lose. But they can only win one game at a time.

To add further Beckham has the most targets with 34, followed by Hooper's 28 and Higgins 25. He has played 2 less games than both. The idea that the QB isnt getting the ball to the receiver with the most targets is an odd one I wonder if OBJ is upset that he isn't getting the right balls.

This probably gets frustrating.

But I wonder at that stat, he has 17 catches in 34 targets and 2 drops. I may be wrong but 42% means he had 14 uncatchable balls, 2 drops and 17 receptions which is 33. So Baker only threw him one catchable ball that wasnt caught and wasnt dropped. I'd imagine that is the one last week where he gave up on it and reached out with just one hand. So he has had no other catchable balls this year?

This was catchable I think.

This one was catchable

Not sure this would be uncatchable

And yet, we have to ask why that is.

Baker has had success throwing to a speed guy in the past. In fact, he's really had success throwing to all kinds of receivers.

Is Baker's off shoulder somehow affecting throws to OBJ, and not really to everyone else?

Is it possible that OBJ is not in the right spots, when he is supposed to be? Stafanski's offense is based on precision and timing. Perhaps Baker goes through his reads, and OBJ is not where he should be, when he should be there. Could it be that OBJ gets open, but that the read has passed him by?

I don't know .... but Baker doesn't seem to be a guy who passes up "hard throws", or who ignores an open receiver out of spite. He seems to be a guy who wants to win so badly that he'll run through walls with a busted shoulder to do so.

Just my thoughts.

Uncatchable target just means the throw was not on target it does not define whether or not the pass was caught or not.

All reasonable questions. The Baker/OBJ saga has to be one of the greatest mysteries I've seen in sports. It's bizarre.

Just keep him on the roster and deactivate him.

shocking, another year and another year of poor management with the Browns.. It seems like it will never end.

Didn't he have 3 straight weeks of 4th down drops? Those were all balls that hit him in the hands. My eyebrow shoots through the roof reading he's only credited with 2 drops. I'm assuming that they think the 1 that hit him in the butt when he fell down was also "uncatchable".

It would appear that Berry is very unhappy with the OBJ antics since Sunday...as well he should be. Even if OBJ is/was correct, that is NOT the way to make your point. This is a test of Berry's new organizational philosophy and I don't expect him to just look the other way.

It sucks...everyone loses.

j/c...

Is this just more OBJ being OBJ? Honest question.

Wasn't he regarded by his peers as the model teammate in NYG, even during his kicker net shenanigans?

Hot potato topic.

Let's blame someone.

I will not go down that road. For me it is all about results. It is not working. And now it is firestorm.

Laying the blame on someone does not fix it. Coaching, scheme, Baker, Odell, injury to both players, miscommunication.

Things like Baker does not want to throw to him. Odell is a bad guy. I don't get any of that. That solves nothing.

It is up to the people currently involved to fix it or move on. Am all about the team not the individual. I want results.

I just want to win Sunday.

exactly.

If only Baker would just throw the ball to his open #1 WR none of this would be happening.

OnWe all know your viewpoint on baker.

What's your view on obj? Are you saying he's still an elite receiver and open most plays? You believe that he's going to go somewhere else and be a superstar again?

Clearly you blame baker for literally everything... That's a given, what about obj?

I think OBJ is not an elite WR anymore but still is very good. I"D still like him to be a Brown and be utilized the best way he can be. I, as a Browns fan for over 50 years, want us to win. That's what the goal is, to win.

Blow it all up and start over from scratch, this is a disaster...

Cut everyone. Bring back Hue and Haley.

Let's see what Hue can do with good players!

While we're at it let's bring back Lord Dorsey. I mean, the Lions are doing pretty well right now!

I'm lost.. I just don't understand this mess.. OBJ should have been a great addition. I thought he was at first.. I suppose I wasn't alone.. Was it the injuries? He is simply not the WR he once was.

And his father sticking his nose into things... Stupid,... Just stupid.

I didn't see the 11 minute video he posted somewhere.. I guess it shows that Baker wasn't targeting OBJ. Or at least not enough.. I don't know if that's true or just sour grapes..

But the one thing I've enjoyed during the Stefanski era is the lack of DRAMA... A couple of games don't go how they were drawn up and BAM, we have DRAMA.

Well, nothing can be done about it now.. I guess we could cut OBJ,, heavy costs we'd need to absorb. Damage is done, so do you put him back on the field and feed the beast?

hard to say what it all means

How can someone else’s actions (even if they are related to you) cost you your job?
There has to be more to this story….

I agree with this take. Odell, IMO, is immature in some ways. He is a guy who DOES read all the headlines and tweets, and always plays the victim. I was one who claimed he was getting open, and I saw him do it Sunday. But one thing I noticed in the video his dad posted was that at times when he was getting open, Baker was moving out of trouble or had already located someone else open, after looking his way while still covered. It is a weird situation, and I have a feeling that maybe OBJ was freelancing a bit to get open. This can be a problem for an offense built on specific timing in patterns. It's not a bad thing, IMO, but unless your QB can adjust, it doesn't help.

Odell must of did something, Stephanski doesn't seem like a guy who would jump the gun on something. It will come out eventually, especially since Osell loves to whine to the media.

Timing means everything sometimes. That video being posted right after the trade deadline really means Beckham is probably going to sit the year now. I am pretty sure that OBJ isnt away from the team because of his Dad, there is more to the story. We get the public story, but I am willing to bet there is another story quite different.

Everyone has been repeating the mantra that he's open.... but, nobody has been asking if he's where he's supposed to be.


I don't know the answer to that, but it's absolutely a factor that needs to be considered.... though, everyone can rest assured that ALL of this has been handled in the film rooms with the offense repeatedly. There's NO WAY the coaches let it ride that Baker is deliberately skipping a good read to not throw it to OBJ, nor is it possible that OBJ wouldn't have been told he ran the wrong route for a given coverage.
and that stat saying that 47% uncatchable balls.... that HAS to be complete garbage. Hell, I want them to actually back that one up. Show your work.... and, how many of those "uncatchables" were throw-aways in his direction? That one just reeks of being a grossly skewed stat with no appropriate context.

Whatever the reason, none of it matters; it's getting blown up, now.

A couple words for OBJ. Well...bye.

I don't blame OBJ for being mad or frustrated. The guy has been a model citizen since he's been here. Done everything asked of him. He's running wide open every game and just wants the QB to pass him the ball. Like any WR would. Every other QB in the league is able to get their #1 WR the ball except ours. It's frustrating.

Berry should have traded OBJ yesterday. Big time fail by him. So many chinks in the armor of Berry, Stefanski, and Baker this year it's startling. What looked like a 4-7 year run of successful football with a team run by really smart competent people with really good football players will most likely be picking in the top ten of next year's draft.

Yay! Only in Cleveland.

Words of advice to all Browns fans...you could have Paul Brown as your coach, Belichek as your DC, Walsh as your OC, Brady as your QB, Montana as your backup, Brown as your RB, Rice at WR with Taylor and Smith rushing the passer and you'd finish 5--12. So don't ever get your hopes up.

That's just the way the Browns roll.

You don't blame him for this stunt via dad? Or that LeBron and others were tweeting free OBJ? You think for one second that he had nothing to do with that? Makes me wonder if he was dropping passes trying to get cut or traded. smh, and I hate that I even have to consider that. I'd bench him for the year before I cut him.

There was no market for OBJ. He's injured, some have speculated he would not pass a physical if traded, and expensive, most teams didn't have the cap space to absorb his salary. He's also not been productive. Triple whammy.

Let's be real. If it was found out that he was tanking on the field to get a trade his career might be over.

Well it must have been in his head then because his recent drops looked nothing like him, ever.

Rish.. it looks like OBJ was unable to be traded...

And the obvious questions is, if OBJ is this dynamic, elite WR that is constantly getting wide open (no doubt Baker has missed him at times) and consistently beating the coverage, doesn't it beg the question of why weren't teams tripping over themselves to offer the Browns a deal for OBJ? As a season ticket holder, the Browns give me a subscription to NFL Game Pass for free which includes access to the All 22. Surely, the rest of the league has access to the All 22 and can see OBJ running wide open all the time and Baker just holding him back. So why no serious offers for him? Salary be dammed if he'll put you over the top.

The Browns could just as easily post the cut up of plays that OBJ dropped the ball that hit him between the numbers or bounced off his face mask.

His has deminishing skills in the words of Bill Bellicheck. He as not been vert good all year long and should look in the mirror and figure out why he is dropping the ball so often.

He has not been good since he got to Cleveland, with rare exceptions. I don’t dislike the guy, I don’t know him, but after his father posted the video, it was time for OBJ to hit the bricks.


After two-plus seasons it hasn’t worked out, for whatever reason(s). We proved last season that our O can thrive without him. Say what you want about why that is, but it’s a thing.

We eat his salary? Oh well, not my money.

I won’t be shocked if he goes elsewhere and plays well, but he wasn’t doing it here. OBS sealed his son’s fate in Cleveland.

Go DPJ! It’s your time.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/...his-point-and-where-do-they-go-from-here

I cant see how another team could have traded for OBJ, especially knowing there’s a decent chance we’d be releasing him

Maybe it's just me but "Bye Bye OBJ!" I still believe that the Stefanski needs to adjust his scheme and take the chains off Baker. I actually believe that a more open offense will enhance our running game. Unfortunately, teams are gaming us with run prevent defenses and Stefanski's inability to adjust the scheme.

Back to OBJ. IMHO, when you have key major injuries to your offense to the likes of Chubb, Hunt, and Conklin with a less than 100% QB, you need the other players to step up and pick up the slack. Last year we witnessed that team concept where they did that especially when OBJ went down. Fast forward to 2021 and what do we get? An injured OBJ to start the season. An OBJ with hands of stones when he returns for some reason and most importantly, when the team needed you to step up and perform as a contributing team member without causing a distraction we have you whining because your name was mentioned in possible but highly unlikely trade.

Now Stefanski can shoulder a lot of this because of his inability to adjust the scheme but everybody on the team has to adjust to the scheme which is obvious OBJ cares not to. Actually, IMHO the Browns will be a better team because now Landry in the slot becomes the #1 with the shots coming downfield when warranted without the constant whining the team is getting now. If Stefanski opens up the offense I believe our run game will become even more explosive and Landry will become the same threat he's been for years opening up big plays to the outside and TE. Stefanski has put together one of the best base offenses in the NFL and I'm 1000 percent behind what he has done in Cleveland. However, he's in the lower 10% of the league in making live game adjustments and or the development of the opponent game scheme for the week. He needs to take the next step to take Cleveland to that Championship level. Baker is in year 4 and the world needs to know if he can carry the team when needed - Stefanski's scheme doesn't allow for that to happen. It's time to take the next step toward excellence and without OBJ.

I agree that we need to let Baker be more like he was last year in Tennessee or Dallas. Problem is, the injury is significant and I’m not sure he can even do it.

Next year is a make or break year. I wouldn’t sign baker until after next season.

I'd be right there with you in this case (classic example of why I hate social media). But where is Odell? He hasn't said a peep as far as I can see.

Man, some of you are off your rockers. There are sooo many factors that have gotten us here. OBJ is only one, and very minor one at that. Diminishing skills? Hasn't been good since he got here? Dude owned the Dallas game last year, as an example. He has made the downfield plays you would expect, throughout his first 1.5 years here. He has blocked. He has, up until this week, been a good teammate. And yes, he has dropped some critical easy catches this year, which has hurt us. But this media (and subsequent fan) focus on him is ridiculous. Bigger problems have been...

Baker has been garbage in 2 games this year, very good in 2, and very average in 4. Whether injury, slow eyes, whatever, that is not good enough.

Stefanski's scheme is what it is...very effective in neutral/positive game-scripts, and not so much in negative scripts. Then he inexplicably breaks scheme strength goes like 5 straight 4WR sets, like early in the Steelers game...yields us 2 3&outs. The creativity we saw last season is often lacking, and like Baker, Stefanski gets worse in the 4th quarter.

When we ARE on the verge of closing games out, we have our best players fumbling (Chubb, Landry). We have phantom PI calls.

Right now, there are plenty of contributing factors to this team underachieving. But Baker's performance (again, for whatever reason) has given the local and national media what they have been craving since OBJ came to town...a big, dramatic break-up. And until he had his dad do this bush-league move, it was not OBJ's fault (or maybe #8/top 10 reasons). Now it looks like this will spiral us to a 6-11 season, and we'll see that OBJ was not the major problem. The media will look for the next controversy to create...a new rift between Landry and Baker, perhaps. Who knows. But we are not going to turn this around unless every one of those things above is fixed.

/rant.

p.s. yes, I know that defense has contributed significantly to our mediocrity, as well, but that's not this thread.

I saw an article where Odell himself posted on IG that maybe this thing w Baker and the Browns isn’t working after all. Then apparently he quickly deleted it.
Idk if it’s 100 percent accurate.
Did read that he has been sent home from todays practice as well

This is "professional" football.

I coached kids and teens for ten years. I have had parents ask all the "why isn't my son getting more opportunities" questions.

Odell's father and Lebron on the day before the trade deadline come up with this campaign to free Odell?

Come on man. That reeks. Of course Odell knows about it.

Stefanski meets with Berry. Make a decision. If the decision is move forward then you get the parties together had talk it out.

If you decide to move on then find the best way to do that.

The Browns and in this case Berry can not let him go this year to another team that could impact the Browns playoff hopes.

You can not do that to appease a player.

Unless there is a clearing of the air that is beneficial to the team; and there is a consensus on how to move forward. Otherwise Odell has to be out of the locker room.

Now this is a management decision and it has to be delt with.

All I know is we finally get a GM that knows what he is doing a good HC and talent on our team and it turns into a soap opera. Only we can mess things up like this. Of course all the injuries didn't help either.

Agreed. We can’t reward the behavior and set that precedent

Sunday's game against the Bengals could be a defining moment for Stefanski. And Baker. And the team.

why are some of yall talking about OBJ as if he's toxic like the NY days?

dude has been here and hasnt caused any drama. there's more whining from Baker's wife than OBJ.


some of you posters have been trying to set up OBJ as the scapegoat since day one. crap is sad.

if yall think OBJ is washed, then it shouldnt had been an issue to just release him and let him go to another team. he wasn't gonna do anything somewhere else, right?

right?

It really stinks.

It is hard to win in the NFL. We went through 1-31. We know.

Personally I have faith in Berry and Stefanski. They will solve this. Both are smart men who know all that goes on inside the team.

Whatever they decide. I will not question.

My opinion is Odell is better off not playing the rest of this year. He has shoulder issues that have to be fixed. If your labrum is tore it has to impact your ability to catch the ball.

Odell is one player. He doesn't play defense and he has had little impact on the offense.

The reality is when he didn't play. The offense was more productive. It does not matter why.

I agree with you on one thing. If he needs off the team, then send him home or cut him.

If he's a diva and drags the locker room down then send him home or cut him. Honestly, I doubt it makes a difference to him. If the dude is as banged up and he's saying, then the super-long offseason could do him wonders. With our injury situation, I don't think it makes a ton of sense to flush a roster spot down the toilet for the rest of the year.

I'm not in the locker room and neither are you so we don't know what's really going on with OBJ. My hunch is he reared his ugly head when the trade rumors became constant and after a sit down with Stefanski it was decided that for the betterment of the team the Browns would move forward without him. I don't believe that his Dad or Labron had much to do with the situation except that I would be willing to bet that Stefanski was critical of the problem going out to social media instead of staying in house.

That aid, I'm not blaming the Browns woes on OBJ. Has OBJ lived up to his contract or been the type of leader needed for this young team - Nope, I think he's failed miserably at that. Now any true businessman or coach would tell you that trying fix 10 things at once is a plan to fail. Picking 2-3 key areas to fix and then fixing them for good before moving on is the secret to success. So what has Stefanski fixed and what is next on the agenda?

1. Stefanski brought a revised attitude and concept of team.
2. GM and Stefanski worked together to make the best draft choices and FA signings within their capabilities.
3. Stefanski taught the team how to win
4. Stefanski has let go those players that didn't, couldn't. or wouldn't buy into his philosophy. (I think OBJ falls into this too)
5. Taught Baker to limit his mistakes on the field.
I'm sure there's more but this are the big points. So what's next to address?

1. Adjusting your run scheme to a more balanced or even a little leaning passing concept to capitalize on your franchise QB's skill set and talented WR and TE weapons.
2. Set up schemes that allows your QB to be successful. A more successful passing scheme will enhance the running game. Look if Baker is more of a threat outside the pocket then move him. Admit that what you are doing now is not consistently successful.
3. For god's sake, learn how to close out games when you're leading and making real time game scheme adjustments as needed.
4. Please start working everyday on developing a feared 2-minute offense. PRACTICE IT - PRACTICE IT - PRACTICE IT

The other stuff will have to wait but these fixes are past due and critical to the future of the Browns. Baker needs to grow but Stefanski needs to grow too because as it stands today, they are both underutilized and hurting the team.

Despite the "opinions" of others.

Baker is the quarterback of the Browns. He will remain the quarterback until Berry and Stefanski decide otherwise.

IMO they believe they can win with Baker as their guy.

The "opinions" of people on this Board have no bearing on what they believe.

Frankly, the Baker opinions for the most part are non professional.

None of us are are part of the team. We do not have a real frame of reference. We don't attend meetings and practice everyday.

Most get their opinions from other sources or drum up slanted distorted stats.

It is not based upon daily visuals and inside knowledge of the team.

That IG post allegedly posted by OBJ was fake. The dead give away was the guy that initially said he captured the screen shot and said OBJ took it down immediately showed the post had been up for 2 hrs. Lol. It was a bad photoshop job.

Baker also said yesterday that OBJ hadn't reached out to him at all.

I know everyone says that OBJ is a great teammate. But would a great teammate have his dad merk the QB and then go radio silent?

jc...


Odell Beckham Jr.’s dad strikes again, posting a shoutout to the producer of the video that’s hastening the end of his son’s career with the Cleveland Browns
Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com - 30m ago

link




CLEVELAND, Ohio — Odell Beckham Jr.’s struck again on Thursday, posting a shouting on Instagram to the producer of the video he posted Tuesday that will lead to the end of his son’s Browns career.

“WHHHHAAAA....Shout out to Jdaddy Productions on Youtube.com for making this video, a week ago, which aloud me to find it post it 3days after...” Beckham Sr. posted on his verified account, which has 120,000 followers. He added a praying hands emoji and strong-arm emoji, and the hashtag #imafather1st.


On Tuesday, Beckham Sr. posted the 11-minute video produced by John Hallack, who created a montage of all the times Beckham has been apparently open this season and Baker Mayfield missed him or avoided throwing it to him.

The post created a firestorm inside Browns headquarters, and was the last straw for Beckham remaining with the team.

Beckham’s camp ask for a trade, a source told Cleveland.com, and then for his release when a trade didn’t happen.

Beckham Sr.’s shoutout to Hallack, a double-down on the original post, pretty much confirms that Beckham has played his last ball for the Cleveland Browns.

Mayfield admitted he was as surprised as anyone that Beckham Sr. would publicly call him out on social media, which included “likes’' and support of comments that supported his premise.

“Hurt? No. Surprised? Yes,’' Mayfield said. “I think there are different things that play a factor into it. I have had conversation with his dad before man to man, face to face. I was pretty surprised by the video and the intentions and the feelings behind it. I would be lying if I said otherwise. But hurt? No. I am good. I will be alright.”

Beckham has been excused from practice Thursday for the second straight day, and has likely played his last ball for the Browns.

His agent, Zeke Sandhu, is talking to Browns GM Andrew Berry about some kind of an exit plan, whether it’ s a release, a release with a settlement, keeping him on the roster and making him inactive, suspending him, placing him on IR, or something else.

I will offer my usual disclaimer that I'm far from a Xs and Os guru.... but from watching, it really appears that Bakers first reads are always short throws... so he's looking at them first, if they are open, he throws it. The only time he really even looks downfield is when everything underneath is covered up or when he is forced from the pocket early.. then you never know what he's looking at.

I've seen quite a few incidences where OBJ beats his man right off the LOS and Baker is scanning the other side of the field.... I don't know what his progressions are supposed to be, I can only assume he's going through them like he's supposed to... but our lack of even attempting deep throws is disturbing and I don't know how much of it is Baker and how much of it is Stefanski.. but it's not just OBJ, we just aren't attempting deep throws really to anybody. I have a hard time believing Baker doesn't trust OBJ or has some personal vendetta against him, even with all of the hoopla about it, he still leads the team in targets.

This also begs the question, if we aren't going to throw it deep, why did we draft a questionable WRs, whose only claim to fame is that he's lightening fast... if we aren't going to use him deep, why did we draft him? We did try to use him early in the season and Baker got crap for targeting him too much.. now he rarely gets targeted at all.

And when I say deep throws, I'm not even talking about 15 to 20 yard deep crosses.. I'm talking about the go route, down the sidelines, over the shoulder throws..

I suspect that most people, me included, think that he was in on his dads efforts. He could let his father take the heat. Therefore he could deny his involvement.. My guess is that the Browns saw through that..

If OBJ didn't want his dad going scorched Earth on social media, my guess is it wouldn't have happened. But if his dad did go rogue, then the obvious reaction would be to deny... or at least say SOMETHING. OBJ going radio silent on social media is a pretty big indicator, IMO. Now you got the rest of the locker room coalescing around each other... and Baker since he's still there.

its a good question.

which now i have to remind the board one thing: OBJ and jarvis both had over 1000 yards receiving in 2019. and obj played that entire year hurt as well.

at this point i dunno whats going on. but man this sucks because once again, we have all this talent and seem to be headed the wrong direction.

and now OBJ leaks to Josina Anderson that he’ll come back if asked LOL. Whatever dude.

I think we’re trying to cut him with cause.

Problem is: we technically can’t just pay him to stay away if he wants to be here (per the CBA)

I want this drama squelched ASAP. The quickest way to do that (IMO) is to take care of business vs the Bengals. A big big part of that will be for the passing game to magically start clicking again (w/o OBJ, it would appear).

I don't think anybody will be able to explain to me how a passing game gets better when you take a rare specimen like OBJ off the field... but I'm just 'whatever' at this point.

it will be interesting for sure.

cause even if obj was just a pure decoy for defenses, we got rid of the decoy...


people forget obj was a good blocker as well. and atleast made defense honor the passing game.

how much more crowded will the LoS be?

Well, it can't be much more crowded than it was throughout the second half of the Steelers game. Yeesh, that was some tough sledding for Chubb.

I don't know why, but I have a feeling the passing game is going to go off this Sunday. Probably more hope than anything....

I have a hard time believing his dad found all of that aerial footage, put in the graphics, and put it to music.. maybe he did, maybe he paid somebody to do it for him... but it looked like footage that would have had to come from an inside source since you don't often see that view during the games or during replays...

I don't have anything against OBJ, he's been a good teammate since he got here, he plays hard, he blocks hard... but, and everybody can have their own version of why, it's not working.

The video was made by some guy on YouTube and OBJ Sr. posted it on Instagram.

Ah, ok.

Woah... Is that for all season tix holders? I'd like to know protocol for taking advantage of that perk...

The All-22 stuff is made available 24 hours after the broadcast ends, as opposed to the regular and condensed versions being available usually immediately (but no more than an hour) after the game ends.

Yeah, I paid for it one year when I was in St Louis and had no real hope of watching Browns games. I'm just wondering how NFL Game Pass is free to season tix holders. Wasn't aware of this perk and have no idea how to take advantage of it. Nothing on the Browns website, I'll have to call my rep.

After 2020 ended there was great optimism about the coming year.

The main reason behind that optimism was the second year with the same coaching staff and many returning players.
The new players on defense would upgrade that unit significantly.

The offense in the second half of last year was cooking. The highly rated OL was returning in full strength.
The return of Odell and being in the same scheme with a full off season to practice with no covid. Well that could only mean the offense would be better.
What happened?

Injury for one thing.

Odell did not come back. Everybody said he looked great. He worked hard on his rehab. Most felt he would start the first game.

That did not happen. He practiced some. Looked ready. Then held back because he felt he was not ready.

Then he does return and here we are.

I never bought into we were better without him. Logic says you are not better when you have a great talent not playing.
My thought was we got good because we matured together and were ready to play better. That is why we were better in the second half. Not because Odell didn't play.

Well we are about to find out because Odell caused this firestorm. He cooked this up with his father. It doesn't matter at this point why or who is to blame.

It does not appear that this current situation can be resolved with Odell returning and begging forgiveness. His goal is clear. He wants out.

So Berry will have to do this asap and do it with the best interest of the team as best as possible.

If this is the case and Baker is going through his reads as he's supposed to, why aren't their plays designed to where Obj was the first read? They know he struggles to go through his progressions and tends to lock onto his first read.

j/c

Okay, let me get this straight. So OBJ is behind what his dad is doing on social media? Then does that also mean that Baker is behind all of the things his wife posts on social media? If so, why isn't Baker stopping it? I'm shocked why people don't understand how dumb that sounds. Actually his dad saw it posted on social media and in turn reposted it himself. Do you really think in the middle of reading and posting on social media he stopped to call OBJ and cook up some scheme with his son? That's simply foolish talk.

And someone even acted as though it was crazy that OBJ said he would come back if he were asked to. So he was told to stay home. If you were told not to show up yesterday and today, wouldn't it make sense you would have to be told or asked to return?

I realize we all now live in a world where if you can't make up a conspiracy theory it spoils any event that happens. But good Lord people, this sounds like a lot of you are seeking a job as a writer on a soap opera.

There has been nothing but rave reports of what a great teammate OBJ has been. Nothing but rave reports of how hard he has worked. I'm not sure exactly what the hell has happened but one thing has been clear for anyone who has followed the NFL for any length of time.

I keep seeing it posted how "Stefanski has kept the drama down since he's been here". That's true. But when you're winning, when you make the playoffs, that's an easy thing to do. When things start going south it becomes much harder. That goes for all 32 teams and coaches in the league. This is a natural part of losing and exactly what we saw here before when we were losing.

How dumb it sounds?

I don't know about others, but I think there is a world of difference between Emily calling out hordes of fans and their "Baker sucks" mentality and a player's dad basically calling out one player and blaming him for his son's crappy season.

Personally, if my dad put that crap up I'd have it down in five minutes and apologize for his frustration. By saying nothing, letting it ride and basically ghosting Baker from the time it's posted, I'd say most people would assume that's an official "co-sign".

Yeah, it seems as if he really wanted to stay here..He’d reach out to coach or Baker.
Or release a statement…
Seems as if he is wanting to move on or ego isn’t letting him apologize…
It’s difficult to read between the lines and speculate.
I’m just curious why it’s taking 2 or more days to release him.
There aren’t a lot of options now that the trade deadline has passed.
Sort of making me think they could be discussing keeping him, despite all of the reports saying he’s a goner.

I know I had no control over what my dad did or said. Maybe you did. Secondly, you seem to act as though he should call his dad out in public or something? Is that how you would treat your dad if he said something you didn't approve of? OBJ has said nothing. Not about his dad or the team. That's actually the best course of action he could take. Now if he were out there blabbing things all over the place to the press? That would be a legit reason to complain.


Most people take things they want to take them. No basis for it and no reason for it other than that's what they want to take from it. I forgot that in todays society if you don't rush to call a friend about a personal business matter you have "ghosted them". As far as some of you are reaching I can't imagine how long your arms must be.

I don’t know what has gone on, all I know is I’m bummed that OBJ didn’t bring the team the successI’d hoped he would. Note: I don’t know WHY his potential never materialized, be it him or elsewhere, but, I wanted a stud WR, and hoped he would fill that role. I don’t blame anyone, because I know jack-[censored] about what really went down.

Pit...come on, man...you can't possibly buy into this line that it was just his daddy playing around on social media...?

I think Baker said it best when he commented on his " man to man, face to face comment ", referring to an earlier conversation he had with OBSR. last year or the year before.

I don't see anyone from the ODell camp making any effort to talk to Baker face to face or man to man...do you?

Kneecapping his QB, in interviews and on social media..it's a tactic that OBJ has used before.

link

The LAST thing you want a player to do in this situation is speak to the press! Reach out to the coach or Baker? The coach has reached out to him two days in a row. He told him not to come to practice both days. Why should he reach out to Baker? Baker has nothing to do with him being told not to come to practice. Baker doesn't control his contract. All he would be doing is dragging Baker into the middle of all of this. Why should he do that?

If he talked to the press everyone would be on his ass for doing it. I think people would blame him for dragging Baker into it if Baker said he spoke to him. I mean if Baker said he talked to him the press would be hounding Baker to know what he said. Does Baker need that?

No matter what OBJ does he's going to get crap at this point because everyone's mind is already made up.

Then please tell me what he said or did to "knee cap" Baker. Heck, his dad didn't even make the video.

If you think his Dad would deliberately do anything to hurt his son if his son asked him not to do it, you're likely a little out in left field. There's no way his Dad does this - and he remains silent while his Dad doubles down on it - unless he's 100% Ok with his Dad doing what he's doing. Adding in the likes of LeBron & other celebrities chiming in, and it is nearly impossible to not clearly see it as being the coordinated effort that it is.

My guess? He and his agent want to get him to one of the L.A. teams.

and for the record, I want him to stay. I want it all to work out. I *hate* that once again we're in mid-season drama metldown land. I want OBJ & Baker & Ski to be bosom buddies and BFFs and everyone mesh and this offense thrive.
I've avoided deriding Baker, or OBJ, or anyone else and have stayed patient and tried to see what else might be going on..... but, this one is just too much to ignore. There is enough there to see it for what it is.

I would assume it's free to all season ticket holders. I've received this benefit every of being a STH. The Browns have always sent an email with the free promo code for Game Pass at the start of the season.

Call your rep if you can't dig up the old email. I'm sure they could you the promo code to use.

In case you missed it "LeBron & other celebrities" are always on social media running their mouth.

If you would chastise your dad publicly that's up to you. I know I never would have.

Yep. I said nothing of the sort, but any convo with you is par for the course.

Have a nice day Pit.

You too.

You don't have to chastise to make a public statement saying that you're all good right here.

Hue Had Good players! Kirko, and Schobert, look how good they played this year against the Browns. Schoberts' so good he got Melvin Ingram Traded off the Steelers, I think. Flat took his job.
Keenum To Schwartz, Seriously is it so much to ask Schwartz to get 50 yards a game?

Ok, Browns, woes... (unpopular opinions . com or something) - 1C. Terrence Mitchell not retained from 2020. 1B. JOK, as a draft pick, trading up for JOK. 1A. They wouldn't have had to reach for Greg Newsome as a decision in the draft at pick 29? if they had not created the hole with Mitchell. (Which again had them reaching at JOK again avoiding WR with either of their top 2 picks)

2C. No real WR. drafted except the guy from the other team, Beckham with a 1st round pick. 2B Having Beckham kept them from doing it, even though many were drafted the 2 drafts, which included the same draft and the one before, the Schwartz pick.
2A. Schwartz is not a real legit target, and how that stresses the rest of the franchises' decisions.

3C, The Browns OLine stinks, it is only a shell of what it once was, (collectively, not individual players but as a collective), when it had Chris Hubbard and Kendall Lamm as options 6. and 7. and healthy. 3B. Letting Kendall Lamm go was another linchpin when knowing the (nature, not extent) of Hubbards injury in week 18, or 17 or 2020's season, and (should be), how most OL don't do well in coming back from Upper Arm, outside of the shoulder muscle tears. (Jack Conklin, Joe Thomas, not related). 3A. James Hudson is not as good of an option at Tackle, as the Browns had to put out there in 2020.

(Certainly Unpopular opinions I guess.)

pit...I don't give a damn who made the video, who decided to reference the video and post it again on morning of the trade deadline?

Your take on the event might be believable if the ODell camp had not used the same tactics they used when Odell went after Elli Manning. That OBJ, he is a real team guy...but only when he wants to be.

IMO, it would just make him look better.
In the interviews yesterday both coach and Baker were asked and both replied that they haven’t heard from him. If he would pick up the phone and say listen, that was a mistake by my father… I want to be here and win some games, etc etc… it would have helped squash this media storm that are saying he’s done here. Again, jmho. Maybe his agents and advisers told him to stay quiet.

Man there are so many layers to this. But trying to keep it simple:

When we traded for him everyone hoped we'd get the stud OBJ that had at least a couple of elite seasons in NY.

For whatever reason he never performed up to his status in a Browns game with the exception of two games. He was negatively impacted by Kitchens in exactly the same way Baker was. He's been injured. So there are mitigating factors.

However - I've seen him line up in the wrong place too many times, seen him drop way too many catchable balls. To consider him a true elite player at this point. Couple that with the injury history and his high salary and he was never, ever going to be traded unless it was minimal AND the Browns paid some of that salary.... of course if this has all come out a week earlier, sure he'd most probably have been traded somehow.

He's been a pretty good team mate - there has been much, much less drama than advertised when he was unhappy in NY. The watch thing, the shoe thing, nothing major. Until now.

The way he has conducted himself - lost any respect i might of had for him. I agree with many that think there is NO WAY that OBJ was not in on and aware of what his dad did. I also think it's telling he's made no comments to try to reconcile, defuse or distance himself from his Dad's opinion. . . . You can most definitely, make a statement and distance yourself from what his dad posted without chastising him and state that you don't share those sentiments.

So, barring an absolute miracle, he's never playing for the Browns again. How you handle it - I actually like that (given the poop sandwich they have) Berry and KS seem to be handling as professionally and the best they could to try to minimize the impact on the team and the chance of a W on Sunday.

I'm one that said early on that when folks claim OBJ is "always open" - we don't know if he is running the right routes, freelancing, getting open after the play is busted ... so while Baker has definitely missed him sometimes through bad QB play ... I don't buy that he is open 'a lot'. I've heard plenty of stats about how much he's been thrown to and don't by that pile of BS either (about Baker deliberately not throwing to him)..... I also heard one of the talking heads on ESPN talking about how the "separation stats" also do NOT support OBJ being open 'all the time'.

I expect OBJ to do well (much better than his time here) if he goes to somewhere like the Rams or New Orleans ... I think those offenses are nothing like the Browns and would play to OBJ strengths. I think if he ended up with the Ravens it would be bad for us too - Lamar can buy a ton of time, and those broken plays where its a free for all is when OBJ finds the spaces and is probably at his best.

I thought it was telling that Landry came out in support of Baker. I hope that continues. Hope DPJ is healthy and can make us all forget about OBJ and consistently be the playmaker we've seen glimpses of. And that's it right there the season is all about so many good players needing to get healthy. But for right here and now - bye bye Odell.

It's odd, well considering it's you, maybe not so odd, that you conveniently left out the part preceding what you quoted....


The part you quoted would be the only option left after that. But that's okay.

What did his dad post on social media during the Eli situation? You seem to be trying to say this was some coordinated effort between his dad and himself. Yet there is no evidence that's true. And who exactly is "Odells camp"?

I've got that same feeling. Who knows, maybe lightning strikes twice against the Bengals.

If I had to venture guess, which is exactly what everyone else is doing at this point, I would venture to guess that his agent has told him not to make any comments to the press. Which would also be my advice if I were in his shoes. That doesn't make it some nefarious plan. And if my HC had told me to stay home for two straight days when I was ready to practice and the public knew that, would anyone believe that "It's all good right here"? I don't see how stating an obvious lie to anyone reading it would help the situation.

I agree.

This firestorm was created. These are not kids. They are grown men. This is professional football.

If Dad did this on his own then his son needs to talk to him.

You don't solve the problem by creating a another problem.

Stefanski stated Odell and his agent are speaking with Berry. Agents are not part of the team.

If this was going to be resolved internally there is a way to handle it professionally. You get the parties involved in a room and you communicate.

When a agent enters the picture. It is no longer an internal situation.

Stefanski is responsible for the team. Berry handles the roster. That is how their orc chart is structured.

Stefanski stated after the Steeler loss that he needs to get Odell the ball. It is up to him to solve player matters.

Stefanski could have called in Baker and Odell and gone over film. Then come up with improvements. Odell and Baker worked together in the off season. At least that was reported. Baker has spoken to papa Odell before "man to man." He was surprised by this.

This no longer "appears" to be a team and player issue. Agents don't talk about how can we get better.

This whole ordeal has an odor and it doesn't smell good.

I'm not familiar with Instagram - is there a way to tell if Lebron James was following Beckham Sr before a couple days ago? The reason I ask is because I'm not particularly surprised at a father supporting his son on social media, but my BS antenna twitched a bit when I saw the supporting post from Lebron. It *felt* choreographed, like maybe a certain NBA superstar got a call from a certain NFL WR asking him to do his buddy a solid.

The more I think about this .... this can't be the 1st episode with OBJ. It makes no sense that it would be.

If your Dad said something and you didn't counter it then people would assume he spoke with your agreeance. Hell, OBJ doesnt even have to disagree with his Dad in public, merely state that is his Dad opinion and not necessarily his. It looks like OBJ is throwing shade without getting his hands dirty this way. If Mayfield could have said "OBJ and I talked about the video his Dad posted and we are good" this would all be moot. If he didnt talk to Mayfield it looks really suspicious.

I know OBJ would be pissed if Emily posted on social media throwing OBJ under the bus and Baker ghosted him.

j/c...

It doesn't get any clearer than that.

Pure speculation.

I think too many people are confusing being a likable dude with being a good teammate. A good teammate doesn't show up to the game putting the team at risk to start the game with 15yrd unsportsmanlike penalties because he wants to challenge the League dress codes (see shoes, visor, etc..)

A good teammate doesn't need to be directed as to where he should line up virtually every play like he did in 2019.

Having said that, OBJ did seem to mature and got away from all that nonsense. But to say he's been nothing BUT a good teammate since being here isn't entirely accurate.

As for what's going on now, I'm inclined to give OBJ the benefit of the doubt that he's not coordinating the social media stuff.

[img]https://scontent.fyyc2-1.fna.fbcdn....579276586546777c80a733d6&oe=61A945D3[/img]

"He does nothing. He talks to no one. He's just got a malcontent attitude"...anonymous Browns player on OBJ to Mike Garafolo.

wut...

This is all just a contrived smokescreen planned in the offseason. Baker and Odell are going to light it up Sunday...stunning the football world and catching the Bengals completely by surprise.

Obviously. Or am I OBJ Sr.?

Between this video and Garafolo video it looks like the Browns are starting to circle the wagons.

I'm thinking "sinking the ship" would be more accurate.

You obviously aren't listening to the two videos. Start with post #1899392, then cfrs15's posted video.

I’m wondering why all of this happened the way it did. A couple other ways it could have gone: One, if OBJ is unhappy, he just keeps grinding away, and finishes the season, then looks for another team. Two, the Browns could have (I think, I don’t know) put him on IR for the shoulder injury.

I’m confused as to what the end goal was for OBJ, if indeed this was all of his doing. The Browns organization doesn’t come out of this looking badly, since he seems to be the decider of if/when he might come back. He looks like the diva he had been reported (justly? unjustly?) to be, and he has to know that it will affect his future career when he’s a free agent next year.

I just don’t get it.

All that keeps repeating in my head is the memory of right when we got him, or maybe it was just before that, Landry kept Tweeting to him "get your mind right!".

Well, I think he went away from that.

Precisely.

That reporting by both of them paints a clear picture.

The 1st read is usually the deepest route.

I'd imagine OBJDAD realizes that Mayfield was hurt and missed a game.

Keenum was our QB then, not Mayfield.

OBJ caught 2 passes for 23 yards from Keenum.

Guess it's a huge conspiracy.

Why is it every time we are picked by the media to go to the playoffs/Super Bowl, something has to happen. One year we had 5 prime time games and stunk it up, then the Freddy fiasco one year, and then the Browns move to Baltimore, and now the Odell drama. The Browns are truly cursed.

Releasing OBJ on his 29th birthday.

Poetic.

I really hope a team claims him (preferably a bad NFC team) because I don’t want to see him go to the Ravens, Raiders, etc and then beat us in a few weeks

So, let's consider history and what the real "OBJ" plan has been:

OBJ is unhappy with the amount of usage he's getting out of Stefanski's controlled offense scheme. Blaming Baker, the sun, or a rock he tripped over is just the vessel - not the destination.
History has shown, an unhappy OBJ means a plan has been hatched and he intends to get his way.
It has been reported that OBJ requested to be traded. OBJ knows that his contract greatly reduced the odds of being traded because the Browns had no intention of paying him while playing with another team. That in itself is exactly why the trade offers fell through on Tuesday.
The video his Dad posted was well planned, the timing of the release coinciding with the trade deadline was not accidental - OBJ was trying to force a trade (or was he?)
OBJ, being the smart person spearheading the plan, almost immediately requested the Browns release him after the passing of the trade deadline, why?

Problem 1, the CBA doesn't allow the team to just stop paying OBJ unless he refuses to play - thus the next move by OBJ with his only statement so far "I'm available if they want me."
Problem 2, the Browns are not going have a disgruntled OBJ in the locker room causing issues or a disgruntled OBJ on waivers where another AFC team competing for the wildcard or division against the Browns gets him.
Problem 3, being put on waivers allows any team to claim your services but the issue still remains that the claiming team has to honor the current contract. Since OBJ's deal runs through 2023 at 18 million annually, investing in OBJ is more than a season thing and knowing his history of being disgruntled, most teams don't want to buy into the possibility for the 2-years past 2021.

The Browns, the issue the Browns have is a 2-fold situation. First, allowing OBJ to manipulate the team to get what he wants sends a terrible message going forward. Second, paying any amount of money to OBJ while he's performing for someone else sends another questionable message the Browns want no part of especially all the way through 2023 not to mention cap money that becomes unavailable to finish the build the Browns are working on.

Now OBJ isn't stupid so he has to have a plan - and he does.

Knowing the Browns won't pay a portion of his salary, any team that picks him up off waivers gets the bill.
That's more than likely not going to happen especially if you just look at the results for 2020 and this year - is OBJ really worth more than 40 million through 2023 to any team at this point considering the results the last year and a half?

OBJ's plan at this point:
1. Be a distraction, try to force the Browns to release you or make them pay by being a weekly healthy scratch due to being disgruntled and a distraction to the team while continuing to say "your available."
2. Continue to allow your agent to negotiate the release. Don't accept release restrictions but continue to appear to want to play.
3. Demand the Browns move quickly or just make them pay as you become more disgruntled. The more the Browns delay the more social media posts will appear supporting your agenda. Make the Browns look like the "bad guy" in this standoff.
4. Get your release from the Browns and clear waivers because few or any have the cap space to absorb your current contract.
5. Clear waivers and sign with your team of choice. I would expect that the LARams are #1 on OBJ's list at this time but the LAChargers, Tampa, and Green Bay will also be in play.
6. Expect OBJ to come out after the signing to tell how mistreated he was by the Browns.

The biggest issue at this point that I see is the Browns are hell bent on making sure that OBJ doesn't get his way and rightfully so. OBJ manipulated the Giants to get what he wanted and now is trying to do the same to the Browns. If I were the Browns, I'd make him a healthy scratch the rest of the year since the money is already accounted for in the budget. Then in the off season I'd trade him to Jacksonville, Houston, or the Jets. This guy is a growing cancer and now is screwing his second team in a row because he doesn't get what he wants. I'm sympathetic to OBJ's concern about the offensive scheme that Stefanski is running. I'm also sympathetic to the fact that it's not only OBJ but also Diggs that had serious issues with Stefanski - is this a trend? What I'm not sympathetic too is calling out a teammate, taking to social media, and QUITTING on your teammates mid season. I don't care whose right or whose wrong, quitting on your team mid season is unforgivable. There's 10 other players on the field when you are and 52 others on the roster working toward a common goal of winning which obviously you are not. Good teammate - BS! OBJ is for OBJ in a team sport - plus he's not delivering.

Based on early odds:

Saints
Ravens
Bills
Colts
Raiders


This is the top 5 teams likely to sign him per Vegas

First impressions are often correct.

When Odell was with the Giants everyone saw his sideline antics. Pretty clear that he dumped on Eli.

Then there was his exit. He took shots at the organization.

Like most I was blinded by his talent. Thought maybe a strong arm qb would unleash this guy. Ignored all warning signs.

Accepted his injury history.

Blinded by the light.

Looking back my first impression was right. His time in Cleveland reveals exactly who he is. An overrated receiver who is often injured.

That nets it out. He has talent. Nobody denies that. But he is no longer exceptional. And he is a drama queen. Make no mistake he loves attention.
You don't have diamonds inlayed into your teeth and then don't want to be seen. He is no Nick Chubb.

Diamonds and all the flash are fine; when you can back it up. Terrell Owens backed it up.

Beckham has not produced. He can lay the blame elsewhere and some may buy it. But there is a lot of unknown about where the fault truly lies.

You can run to stats. But that does tell all. Did he run the routes properly? Did he put in the time at practice to develop chemistry with the quarterback?

Read about Peyton and Harrison or Unitas and Berry or any of the great combo's. Practice, practice, practice.

Bye Odell.

If I were a betting man I think we will be more successful without him. Not sure that means the playoffs, but I think having him on the roster vs not having him on the roster isn’t a big deal

I hope they don’t sign another “star” receiver…
Just not enough targets in this offense to keep them happy.
Stefon Diggs in Minn ( when K.S. Was O Coordinator) Thielen, and now Odell.

I could see us being a good final stop for the right aging vet WRs.

Now being reported OBJ asked to be traded multiple times…during off season and after last game.
Starting to make a little more sense now (the social media dad thing didn’t warrant a release on its own)

I laugh at people who claim he will go to a rival and tear it up. The guy has been hurt more than on the field. Since his first couple years in NY, he has only flashed occasionnally. He is not a superstar, and wherever he goes, he will be the same player he was here.

No kidding, we’ve dealt with worse. When they start to become a distraction, it’s time to let em go before they become a cancer. Anybody remember Josh Gordon? OBJ….Go where you want, but you can’t stay here.

Not gonna lie, I was a big fan and wanted him to succeed here as with all of our players.
But if he didn’t want to be here, kinda puts it to rest and I don’t have any sympathy for him now.
These big name players get in a rough spot with a team or quarterback and want out..try and force their way on to a better team or situation… That’s b.s.
No such thing as a team to them… just how much money they can make and stats they can put up.
It’s kind of a joke. The league wasn’t like this until free agency.

Everything now makes a lot more sense.

Now, for me, the shocking part is that they were able to keep it together and under wraps for so long.

J/C

I've felt that since he got here OBJ was a distraction. I'm not saying it was him or that he even did anything to cause it. There has been, in my opinion, this sense of having to get OBJ the ball and how many targets he gets. Certainly, publicly, he has done nothing to cause trouble. I think his past has followed him and it's always a kind of "wait for it" with him. Even the TV cameras tend to focus on him on the sidelines. I'm not sure if I'm phrasing it correctly, but I've just felt that in one way or another his presence has been some sort of a distraction - again, not due to anything he's even done. At this point, it appears to be addition by subtraction.

Wasn’t he seen telling teams to “come and get me” like get me outta here… when he first got here?
It kinda makes it impossible for coaches and players to have to put up with that behavior while preaching a team first atmosphere in the locker room.

I don't know about everyone else but I've been in a couple of situations on the job over the years where another employee has been trouble for one reason or another and it made it very uncomfortable for the rest of us to go to work and do our jobs. When said employee left or we got transfered things got much better. It's a bad situation when this happens and the Browns will be much better off that OBJ is gone. JMO

Wait. . . What’s a linchpin?

Cutting through all the gunk, the bottom line is if a player doesn't want to be on the team, you are better off with him off the team.

Yep...if he's not "doing his job" or Baker can't trust him...it's like playing 10 on 11. Any replacement that is on the same page as the other 10 guys could be an improvement.

Keeps the wheels from falling off

HE GONE

Nobody is claiming that OBJ will tear it up wherever he goes. What is a fact is the Browns do not want OBJ going to a team that will be competitive with them for a playoff position. There's two unquestionable point here, this is not about money because no team is going to pay him 18 million per year with his past performance the last year and a half. So clearing waivers is most likely a foregone conclusion where OBJ can pick his destination which the Browns don't want. Second, assuming that OBJ is looking to be on a contender immediately, which teams have the need and ability to pay for OBJ at a reduced level or which teams will make the move to keep a competitor from getting him?

You can't deny the fact that the LARams are going all in to win this year and play the Super Bowl at home. Don't be surprised if the LARams become a player. Green Bay is another option and playing opposite Adams with Cobb and Lazard in the mix will make the Packers very scary. I'd suspect the LARams would do everything in their power to stop that from happening. Tampa could be an option but I doubt that Brady would want to deal with OBJ's BS. Saints maybe but who's going to throw him the ball with Winston out. Arizona doesn't need him mainly because their WR's are already better IMHO. SFO maybe but they're a run first team just like the one he's fleeing from. Dallas doesn't need him and the rest of the NFC isn't really competitive.

In the AFC there's probably some takers but the Browns are not on board with that kind of move. In any case, LAChargers might be a spot but OBJ would be a #3. I'd be shocked if KCC and Reed would want the turmoil he brings. The Raiders are a possible landing spot with Ruggs now gone and fits OBJ's style of play. No need in TEN and the Colts are a run first team but has a need. PIT wouldn't take him if OBJ paid them too and BAL does not have the type of passing offense OBJ desires. A definite need is available at NEP but I'd be blown away to see Belichick take a guy like OBJ with his history. It goes against everything he stands for. CIN is a no way and the rest are basically noncompetitive in 2021.

When you figure that OBJ's skills have slipped and the attitude he brings (very important), Vegas might be the landing spot but don't count out the Packers or of course the Rams.

There is a game Sunday and life goes on.

4-4 Record.

Going forward with the saga of beckham in the rearview mirror. What happens now will shed light on the team's direction.

Kevin Stefanski is in the spotlight. He has to galvanize the team and try to save the season.

The receiving corp as some slack to pick up. Higgins and DPJ will be heavily relied upon. Jarvis will be a primary target.

Schwartz will need to show he can run routes and catch the ball in traffic.

The TE's will be used plenty.

We have to be prepared that teams will load the box. At the same time we have to depend upon running the ball.

The passing scheme is based upon timing routes steps to quarterback release. That is the scheme we run. Execution is based upon getting the ball out.

Receivers will be expected to catch contested passes and win 50/50 balls.

Baker. Baker will be getting heat like he has his whole career. It will be interesting to see how he responds on the field.

Who knows how the season will go?

It was him or Landry. I thought that one got squelched.

I can't speak to when it happened - Kitchen's era? - but it was widely reported and has been widely reported from many sources. So I do believe it happened.

I think he can be a legit good WR in an offense that suits his style of beating a man 1 on 1 without the need to be running a specific route. But no matter how good he is - I don't think he wanted to ever be here and his leaving is going to only be a positive. It's not as chronic as the Jamie Collins but clearly he's not committed to the team, you can't keep asking for a trade, dropping balls, lining up in the wrong place and tell me you are all in. . . Agree that injuries might be his biggest obstacle to being a top 15-20 WR again.

Agree with your post ... on Baker and how he has handled this off the field? I think his level of maturity since his 2nd year is on display. Dude handled everything perfectly. There isn't a thing I would have wanted to hear him say differently. Kudos. Hope that carries over to the game on Sunday.

Wondering to myself. hmmm could we sign somebody or will Switzer or Jo Jo get signed off the practice squad?