Bummer.

I was hoping to get him out of the North.

Can't wait to see the contract details

Got her done before the Draft. I'm sure there was a line in that.

Not saying this is the case, but it would be funny if it was a sign and trade type thing. For example Texans give up picks to Baltimore and just get the guy they wanted.

Kinda figured it was going to happen at some point.

Lots of good QBs in the AFC again. Wow.

Injury Prone like OBJ ... Go Get them Myles

2 of the highest paid QBs now in the AFC North.

Bengals and Chargers up next! ... I figured that the qauranteed $ would be 180M minimum based on being a first round pick.

He got a good deal imo.

Nice contract, I approve.

Lamar in the North means more parity within the division. It would be nice if he'd suit up and beat the Bengals once and awhile, he's only played 1.5 of the last 5 games (team 1-4). Looks like another few years of fist-fights for the division... if he holds up.

70% guarantied money. That's going to be the new minimum standard for franchise QBs. Hurts has the injury rider that puts him in the same place (255 / 179). Burrow will probably push closer to 80%.

Well, that sucks.

The AFC is loaded w/QBs. I was making a new Top QB list while I was suspended and other than Hurst, all of the top guys are in the AFC. It's going to be a rough road for us.

Glad you are back for the draft. We don’t always agree but you have great insights

Can't wait until he starts overthrowing Odell and the pouting starts

Lamar should send Jimmy Haslam a big thanks or at least take Jimmy and DEE out for a nice dinner!!!!

Lamar is a terrific player. No matter what when you face him. It is not going to be easy.

He has proved me wrong again and again. So, I don't question his talent. He is not the best passer but his overall game is dynamic.

He presents big problems for defenses.

The AFC is now a juggernaut of quarterback talent.

Mahomes, Burrows, Allen, Herbert, Rodger, Lawrence, Lamar, DW. Then there is still Tua, Matt Jones, Pickett, Tannehill.

Tough sledding

It's funny to think back to when Browns and Ravens seemed to be playing 'chicken' with the QB contracts... before the Browns said "hold my beer". Lamar could easily be in year three of a 5/150 extension if the Raven's would have been more proactive early. I think I would rather be there, than where they are now, if I were them. I'll know for sure if he gets injured again this year.

If the Browns would not have traded to get DW.

We would be facing seasons with no chance to go anywhere. If you don't have a guy to compete at that level. You are not winning playoff games.

I don't how we will do. But we will have a chance.

I might not be right about this, but I think the Jalen Hurts deal was the biggest influencer on Lamar's contract.

If that's the case, it would be only right for Lamar to invite Jalen to the dinner also!!! Welcome back Vers!

I was actually thinking maybe Lamar and Jalen should split the bill.

That would be a gentlemanly thing to do!!!! I'm sure they can afford it!!

Considering PFF Grades for last season and the AFC North teams all set at the QB position now, the Browns have the 4th rated QB in the division right now based on last years on the field production - (Burrow 92.0, Jackson 85.2, Pickett 75.5 and Watson 55.3).

Speaking of contracts, anyone hear that when Jalen Hurts was restructured, this year's salary is only $1,000,000? Can we assume he is set to get a lengthy suspension from the league. That has to be the only reason that year one of his deal would be for so little.

I think that's because of their cap situation, they were really stretched thin for cap space...and why they had to part with some talent leaving (like Gardner-Johnson whom they traded away a draft pick for) and retaining Slay took most of their cap. But I could be wrong

Indeed, the contracts have been getting bigger because of DW, so after Hurts signed one bigger, BAL knew they had to do it asap or it was just going to get worse as new QB contracts start coming out

I was being sarcastic. The Browns were accused of making Watson's first year salary at $1,000,000 so he would have less of a fine when suspended. Apparently, critics did not buy the cap strategy which was the real reason.

If you thought it wasn't going to turn out this way, raise your hand......

Frankly, last seasons numbers don't mean much to me.

Burrow is a very good quarterback and so is Lamar.

Pickett was a rookie. He was ok. How much he will improve remains to be seen.

DW PFF grade last season IMO is irrelevant. Six games after a almost two year absence means little especially in light of all the circumstances.

The PFF grades from last season will mean very little this year. Each season stands alone.

You have to remember that Steve walks around with a hatchet in his hand for the Browns.

By now we all understand.

If there is a way to shine a light on a negative. We know how it will show up.

The North will be war. I don't have a good feel for Pickett yet. I respect Tomlin. I know the Steelers will play hard and play well.
Pickett seems savvy. He throws accurately. It remains to be seen how he will perform over time.

Burrow has established himself. I rate him highly. However, I do not over rate him. It is not like he can not be beaten. We have played him well.

Lamar is always a handful. We know plenty about him.

For those who wish to judge DW on six games from last year. IMO they are mistaken. DW has played 59 games in his NFL career. There is a valid sample size to look at and judge him.

Watson ranked third among quarterbacks with a 92.5 overall PFF grade in 2020, only trailing Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady.

That was his last full season and in stride with his career.

So, showing a PFF grade for six games with all that was surrounding those games. Highlighting a negative when the sample size is incomplete.

I agree, Kevin Cole talked through this on his pod cast "unexpected points" last week.
He surmised that the difference between Hurts (a secound round pick) and Lamar (a former first round pick) was about 70M in guaranteed $$$ which came to 180M ... Lamar gets 185M qauranteed ... so it looks as if the Ravens were able to use the Hurts contract to come to an equitable offer.

And still no other team has been foolish enough to give a QB a fully guaranteed contract.

There are numerous ways to look at NFL contracts.

The NFL owners don't want guaranteed contracts. The players do want them.

It depends upon how you want to look at it. Greed is one way.

Foolish? I don't think so. The Browns decided rightfully so that BM was not going to be the guy to lead a team to the Super Bowl. Since he left other teams have formed that same opinion.

Initially the Browns were thought out of the DW deal. More than likely the guaranteed contract closed the deal. In any event DW signed with the Browns.

Since then the contract has been restructured to gain cap space. Perhaps the contract gives the Browns more ways negotiate over the five years.

Perhaps it also brings the Browns organization and DW into a different kind of relationship moving forward and will help after the end of five years.

The NFL is now a league of "haves" and "have nots" when it comes to competing at the highest level. That is why teams gave up huge draft capital to get Russell Wilson and Trey Lance.

The Browns have their guy who has proven himself in the NFL. Trey Lance has not. Wilson is on the backside of his career. Rodgers is 39.

DW is 27. He is mobile. He can make every throw on the field. His career numbers in the NFL are there to be judged.

The Browns did what they had to do in order to compete at the highest level. I do not think it was foolish.

Foolish would have been rolling with BM and thinking that was the answer. What the Browns did was give themselves a chance to win now and going forward.

If one is trying to use the excuse that the current QB a team has is an excuse to give another QB a fully guaranteed contract that is unprecedented I guess that works for you. I don't think baker was a QB who could have taken the Browns to a SB. So on that we very much agree. Even though others will tell lies to the contrary.

Th problem seems to be that every other team in the NFL who has fixed, managed or addressed their QB issue has never went to the lengths the Browns did in order to do so. And I understand the entire "DW is only 27" argument. But he didn't sign a lifetime contract. And the previous contract he signed, which was in Houston, he refused to even honor.

Nobody had to "roll with baker" to address the QB position. I doubt many people at all thought continuing with baker was the answer. But I'm pretty sure a lot more people thought this crazy guaranteed contract wasn't a reasonable solution.

Like I said, no other team had done this before and no team has done that since. I think that speaks much louder than all the reasons people can come up with to rationalize that the Browns did.

Bone, I couldn't agree with you more. Your opinion is spot on. I do agree with most of what you say on these boards. Keep it coming. You're one of the most articulate and levelheaded fans on this board.

Thanks HD.

Unprecedented is what it took to get DW. It is not an excuse because BM was qb. It was an opportunity to get a top talent.

Have or have not.

Close the deal. Make it happen to compete. BM was at that point out of the picture.

Honestly, so what if it is guaranteed? If you signed him for five years then you should pay him for five years. I do think they needed a contingency to back out of the deal. They decided they want him for that time and intend to pay him.

I mean a contract is an agreement to pay.

Not to be picking on an individual person but running around waving the "we are great flag" every year without looking critically at the team and roster doesn't make you an avid Browns fan - a blind one maybe but no more an avid fan than I am who looks at the weaknesses within the team equally as much as the positives.

I don't make up the numbers created by the on the field performance. Though it's true that Watson hadn't played a meaningful game in almost 2-years, as an established veteran - he was outperformed by a rookie last year in the AFC North by Pickett. As far as what Watson did 2-years ago, Russell Wilson was a top 6 QB in 2020 too and has tailed off dramatically the last 2 seasons being 32 and 33 at the start of those seasons. Nothing is a given with the continual changes in personnel, coaches, and team atmosphere not to mention injuries and under performers.

Now, I expect Watson will improve, how much improvement is the question. I also expect that the Bengals, Ravens, and Steelers will improve too. That said, the Browns were the cellar dweller in the AFC North last year and coming off 2 consecutive losing seasons. The climb is steeper and the questions greater going into a must win season for the Browns. That doesn't make me anti Cleveland, it makes me a realist.

So, yes, I'm sometimes critical of the Browns because they have not shown they are contenders on the field though I don't carry a "hatchet" as you claim but I sure as heck don't and won't wave the "Browns are great flag" until they prove it on the field. That is the main reason I haven't been participating in all the FA and trade hoopla going on in this forum. I've seen this rerun for the last 20 years and the results are always the same.

The fair-minded fan would of course be highly disappointed in Watson's performance last year even with have missing almost 2 years. A 55.3 PFF grade for a top 5 QB after missing some time is worrisome. Burrow and Mahomes led the NFL in 2022 with PFF grades of 92.0 and Mahomes was 1st and Burrow 3rd in the NFL QB Index with Watson at 28th and at the bottom of all AFC North starters. So, excuse me if I'm a little skeptical of Watson returning to top 5 form.

So, do I believe the Browns will be an improved team next year - YES I DO! However, I know the Bengals, Ravens, and Steelers will be improved too. Have the Browns improved enough to overtake those teams in the division - I'll believe it when I see it.

I'll repeat what I've said before. I liked BM and After 2020 thought we could win with him. I was wrong and that's OK. We needed to do something to get us to the next level and we did or, at least tried to, by trading for DW. He came with baggage I didn't like but it's behind us now. Jimmy Haslam wants a winner here and his actions show that. I give him credit. We probably have more talent on this team since the mid-80's. That's great but it comes at a time when our division and the whole AFC is really good. It will be very difficult to get to our 1st Super Bowl with the AFC as it is. AS far as what we had to pay DW it's being talked about less and less with the latest round of QB contracts. After Burrows and Hebert's in LA, DW's contract won't even be mentioned much anymore.

j/c:

I wish the Watson discussion regarding his contract and ability would be added to the existing thread about Watson. The discussion is important, but I think topics about Lamar and Rodgers should focus more on what those moves mean more to their teams and how they affect our chances at the playoffs. Wishful thinking....I know.

I thought there was a decent chance that Lamar and Baltimore would part ways. I was hoping he would go to the NFC. He's back and that is a problem for us. The Ravens also signed OBJ and drafted the dynamic Zay Flowers. All of a sudden, they look like a formidable offense. The AFC is already loaded w/great qbs and it's going to be tough for us to overcome all the obstacles.

"The fair-minded fan would of course be highly disappointed in Watson's performance last year even with have missing almost 2 years. A 55.3 PFF grade for a top 5 QB after missing some time is worrisome."

So, since you are fair minded then why do keep posting 55.3 PFF grade?

DW has played 59 NFL games. So, last season after 11 games were played with a different quarterback. DW after a tumultuous off season of not knowing his status plays the last six games. One with winds blowing whitecaps on the lake. And that is your indicator? That is when you compare him?

That sir, is not fair when there is 53 other games to look at. Games that were paced inside the normal stride of a season.

I will tell you another thing in regards to those six games. He improved. Even when he played poorly a educated eye could see the talent on some of the plays he did make. Yes, his stats were bad. But he flashed the talent that he has. I saw what i expected.

The North is a tough division. I respect every team. I know the division games will be hard fought. I predict nothing.

However, I expect DW to be the player he was in Houston. There are still some concerns about the team.

I'm not sure I would call his game six performance an improvement over his game five performance. In fact I'm quite sure i wouldn't. He actually took quite a step back in that last game. In those six games he had 7td passes to 5 int's. Two of those int's coming in that sixth game.

Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying and those six games don't predict the future. But let's also be at least a bit real here. Jacoby Brissett was considered nothing more than a career backup at this point. He led the exact same roster to being a top 10 rated offense. Yet a QB who was considered a top 5 QB in the league by many on this board didn't come close to that. And yes, you can say all you want about him not playing for so long and about him not being prepared all you like. And that's all true. But nobody, and I mean nobody would have predicted that Brissett could look better and accomplish more with the same roster in those first 11 games than watson would look in those last 6 games.

Jacoby was a better player than most expected him to be.

He deserves the credit on his own.

DW play IMO was not a matter of stats. It was more of just watching him play.

The first game he was uncomfortable in general. You could see he was not use to the speed of the game. His movements were exaggerated. He was not the fluid guy I had seen in the past.

I don't care what his stats were. But I could see as each game was played he started to gain composure. He would make some good throws. On some plays you could see "that is the guy I saw before." It was inconsistent. I think if we were realistic. We would have expected just about what we saw.

This year is a completely different story. He knows he will start the season. He will get the reps. He will have the time to develop chemistry with the team. The offense will be built with him. Built to take advantage of his skills. Plays developed that he should have comfort in.

I can not speak for the whole team because the roster is not final. I still have some concerns. However, I fully expect DW to be the QB he was in Houston or better. I expect the offense to have good numbers.

Defense? We should better with the addition of Jim Schwartz.

I can’t take your criticism seriously after reading your signature. Obviously you are a Browns basher simply because of DW. Why are you even here? And yes I absolutely expected Jacoby to have one of the best seasons of his career here knowing that this was the best roster he had ever played with, plus he had a coach that was good at hiding QBs weaknesses. Then of course there’s always Chubb.

I think that if you are going to continually beat the drum about the stats Watson posted 2 years ago, then it's perfectly fair to post his current level of production. I mean really, we had a former player here that took the Browns to the playoffs 2 years ago but received no such leniency even 1 year later while playing injured. If there hasn't been 10, there's been a thousand posts about how poor Russell Wilson played last year with no reference to his performance 2 years ago when he was a top 6 QB in the league. Heck, there's even been posts on this forum about how a certain future Hall of Fame QB that has won 4 league MVP's not being that good and overrated because he's only been to 1 Super Bowl. Can you see the trend here?

I admire the fact that you are admitting that there are still concerns about the team. That's all I have been trying to say in the first place.

Continually beat the drum?

He played in 53 games. It is a much different sample size than six.

Russell Wilson and his production is not relevant to DW. Wilson's play has been going down. He was traded. He is 34.

He was not suspended 11 games. Wilson went to Denver as the known starter with a full off season to prepare.

DW has to be looked at alone. Rodgers is a first ballot HOF player. Period. Mahomes and Rodgers stand alone as quarterbacks.

The rest that are considered as top guys are not any more talented than DW. That includes Burrow, Allen, Herbert, Lamar or any other guy.

When the 2023 season comes to an end if DW does not perform at a high level. I will jump to the front of the line and say I was dead wrong. I have no problem admitting to being wrong.

I was a BM fan. I wanted him to succeed badly. I thanked him for what he accomplished in Cleveland. I cherished the 2020 season and BM performance.
However, it also became clear to me that he was not the guy to take the Browns further.

DW still has a long way to go to prove his character has a person to me. I will give him that chance.

As a football player IMO he is a stud. I applaud Haslam, AB and the Browns for taking the risk on DW. I have no problem with his contract at all.

Nice post and I respect your opinion. That is one of the great things about the game - everyone has a differing opinion on a player, team and/or game. Though we may have differing opinions, the thought process for both of us the ultimate success of the team we support. This forum is a lot more pleasant when individuals present their opinions for discussion rather than the personal attacks that so often seem to be plastered on this forum. Thanks for the respectful back and forth.

I don't care if you take me seriously or not. I can't stand watson the person and I make no bones about that. I'm not alone on this board about that. But that doesn't change anything else. In that sixth game he looked terrible. He took a big step back. Nothing about that sixth game stretch did anything to give anyone confidence watson will be what he used to be. Nothing. I also made it quite clear that doesn't mean he won't get back to his prior form. The book on that is still unwritten.

Do you even bother reading the board or did you just decide to make a rant based on a single post? I have supported Stefanski staying. I liked the Browns pick of Tillman the WR. I have consistently supported Myles when posters questioned him. I could go on but since you obviously haven't been paying attention I'm not going to waste my time trying to further explain it to you. The book an how watson will perform moving forward is an unknown. As much as people claim differently that's just a fact. I've never predicted he will fail nor am I doing that now.

What I have and am doing is trying to call people on the myth that his six games stretch here last season was some sign he will do great here. because it most certainly wasn't. But rather than take on that discussion like an adult would you have decided it better to attack the messenger. While that's pretty lame there's nothing new about it.

Yeah, good thing Baker never beat the Bengals, Steelers, or Ravens… SMH. I sure hope DW pans out, or we’ll be decades recovering.